June 2, 2023 • 42 mins
Men and women deal with emotions differently, but we all have them. And any man who believes that stuffing and denying their feelings are the path to a happy and successful life - all I can say is that is NOT my experience, nor is it the experience of anyone I've ever met. One of the most painful things a man can experience is the betrayal by his spouse.
Today is part 2 of Recovering From Betrayal, focusing on a man betrayed by his wife.
My returning guest, Vanessa Cardenas, is your trusted advisor for Betrayal and Transformation. Vanessa is a highly experienced C-Suite Executive, Mentor, Coach, and Speaker with a degree in Industrial Psychology. She is also the founder and CEO of Understanding Ear, LLC, where she empowers individuals and groups to heal from betrayal, amplify their authenticity, and find love and happiness on their terms.
Vanessa shares how she went from supporting women to serving more and more men. We explore the pain, secrecy, and shame men experience after discovering their spouse's cheating. Vanessa also explores why men and women have affairs and the most common question men have when they find out they've been betrayed.
While women often want to tell the world when they've been cheated on, that is not the typical response for men. What is so crucial for a man who has been betrayed is to forgive himself.
The core message is to be willing to have difficult conversations before betrayal to avoid needing them after.
Topics and Questions
- 2:12: How different is the experience of recovering from betrayal when you are the betrayed party?
- 7:33 - Vanessa's first male client
- 12:23 - The six most common reasons women cheat
- 16:26 - What does a man feel from betrayal?
- 19:34 - Differences between how a man feels and how he thinks society says he should feel.
- 24:19 - Is this journey of self-forgiveness different if the wife wants the relationship to continue or not?
- 27:47 - Are there any best practices for a man when he discovers his partner is cheating?
- 34:44 - What is the best way for people to find out about everything you are up to?
- 37:02 - The response to Vanessa's first appearance
Links
Vanessa Cardenas -- https://www.understandingear.com
Talk to Vanessa -- https://www.understandingear.com/betrayed-men
Recommended resources
Man's Search for Meaning -- https://amzn.to/43BFxG0
RMF 149 - Men in Emotionally Abusive Relationships
http://realmenfeel.org/2019/09/24/ep-149-men-in-emotionally-abusive-relationships/
RMF 226 - The Abuse of Men by Women
http://realmenfeel.org/2021/02/16/the-abuse-of-men-by-women/
https://www.truthaboutdeception.com/
Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast:
Interested in a Clarity Call with Andy? - visit theandygrant.com/talk
Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @theandygrant
Personal Website | theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info!
Podcast Website | realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related!
RMF Facebook Group | realmenfeel.org/group
YouTube | https://youtube.com/realmenfeel
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:01):
Hello and welcome to real men. Feel I'm your host author coach
and healer and e-grant, you can visit vnd grant.com.
For more information about me, real men, feel exist to remind
men at the human beings and havethe right to experience and
express all of their emotions. We have conversations that most
men are not having but that all men can benefit from men and
women deal with emotions differently.
(00:21):
You may have to say it discovered that but we all have
them and any man who believes that stuffing and denying their
emotions are the path to happiness and this Successful
life. Well, not my experience and it's
not the experience of any man I ever talked.
One of the greatest emotions, one of the greatest painful
emotions, a man might ever experience is one of being
(00:43):
betrayed that we're going to look at today.
Today is part 2 of recovering, from betrayal and we are
focusing on men being betrayed by women.
My returning guest, is Vanessa Cardenas.
She is your trusted advisor for portrayal and transformation.
Vanessa is a highly experienced c-suite Executives.
Mentor coach and speaker with a degree in industrial psychology.
She's also the founder and CEO of understanding ear where she
(01:05):
empowers individuals and To healfrom betrayal amplifying their
authenticity and how to find love and happiness.
On their terms. Welcome back to real men.
Feel Vanessa, thank you so much,Andy.
Oh, I can't wait to jump in and get started.
What you do is absolutely amazing.
So thank you so much for the space because this truly is a
(01:26):
needed space especially for men to know that they have somewhere
safe that they can just be real and be themselves.
So that Thank you, awesome. Yeah.
And that's a great thing to point out because the title of,
you know, I'm not saying that ifyou're not a man, if you don't
like the real and being real is,yeah, real genuine honest being
yourself. I'm not saying that there's you,
(01:48):
you're not a man. If you aren't, you know, willing
to cry in public and there's no emotional disclaimers or
containers that, that I believe in, but that's it.
So, you should a lot of valuableinformation.
Just a few weeks ago. Episode 301, did you betray your
partner and we focused on men wanting to heal.
Relationship after being unfaithful to their partner.
(02:09):
So today, we're doing the flip side.
So, how different is the experience of recovering from
betrayal? When you are the portrayed
party? Yes, well, keep in mind that I
can't speak from the male point of view because I am not mail.
So I am speaking on behalf of the clients that I have worked
(02:30):
with and there have been quite anumber of them.
And initially when I started outyears ago, I really focused on
women and it wasn't so much men.A lot of the women would say,
oh, you know, could you speak tomy husband?
And that was kind of interestingand I started to do.
So, again, from the perspective of the man, cheating on his
(02:51):
wife, then because of what I do,it started to kind of turn and
it was a very interesting Dynamic, but it was more
underground. Meaning if you've ever seen the
movie Hitch with Will Smith and Kevin James.
Okay, hitches. You know, this underground guy,
(03:12):
that helps men, you know, date and get women.
And it turns out that, you know,he works with Kevin Hart and
Kevin Hart's woman that he's attracted to he follows.
Hitches advice and everything else, and she's not really into
them, but anytime he's himself and he's real, that's what
(03:33):
attracts her to him. And I always found that movie
really Really fascinating on that level but then I also
started finding it interesting. On the other level of how hitch
is kind of underground. He gets one referral from
another, it doesn't advertise, he's not all over the place.
Doesn't say, oh, you know, I'm The Love Guru.
You can come find me and I'll help you find women.
(03:55):
Now, it's very, very undergroundand I started to feel that way
as well that my men that I was working with who had been
betrayed. Felt a lot of Shame and they
were very quiet about it and very reserved about it.
Whereas women just want to scream it from the mountaintops.
They want to take on a little bit of a role of victim.
(04:18):
Well, men never take the role ofvictim.
No, they're Men of Steel or their velvet, but there's still,
you know, there and they're firm.
And they have all of these limiting beliefs of how they are
supposed to be. And when they are betrayed There
is a cascading situation that starts to happen for them.
(04:40):
So I want to set the parameters kind of similar to what we did
last time on episode 3, 0 1, butI want to make sure that we have
a nice clear understanding of what we're going to do.
You did a fantastic episode? It was episode 149 and this is
where you actually Andy got really real and you got really
(05:03):
vulnerable and I I thank you forthat because most men will not
be that vulnerable. You not only were you
vulnerable, you let your story out for everyone to hear for the
whole world to hear. And when that happened, that was
such an amazing thing. So, I want to touch on that
(05:23):
because for the men that are listening, if you find yourself
in this situation, you need to go back to 149 episode 149, and
listen to that. That is for Men that are in an
emotionally abusive relationship, it's an aggressive
relationship. It's maybe a secret
(05:44):
relationship. People don't know about it,
their wounds that are inflicted on you from your woman, whether
that's emotional or actually physical.
And you start to question your reality like, is this really
going on? Am I in this situation?
And then you have such a A deep sense of Shame and that shame
(06:07):
can live with you or hears. It can just hold on to you and
Andy, I have to thank you so much for being vulnerable and
expressing that out because now we see how you are today.
We see that growth and that is what provides hope for everyone
(06:31):
to see that progression of move.Forward.
So, thank you for that. You had another episode and that
was episode 226. You had a wonderful woman and
Silvers on, and she said that abuse.
Okay, we're still sticking with abuse for the moment isn't
always just One Direction with aman being mean, and a woman
(06:54):
being victimized, and that was very, very powerful in and of
itself. So, if you're a man, and you're
finding yourself and that type of situation where you're in an
abusive situation, And now you have been betrayed, you need to
listen to those two episodes because those two episodes will
help you for the purposes of today.
(07:14):
We are not talking about any type of abuse.
We are talking about a strict situation, where a husband and
wife we've been married for quite a bit of time.
The man gets blindsided by finding out that his wife has
cheated on him. She has betrayed him.
So I'd like to bring to mind because when I started thinking
(07:38):
and we were talking about doing part to the flip side of what we
spoke about last time, I startedto think back to all of my mail
clients and I actually needed tostart kind of with my first one
because he was the most memorable.
His name was John, we're going to change his name and his wife,
my husband and I met John and Jane at a gallery showing, okay,
(08:01):
and that's where you kind of mingle around.
You have your wine and you're looking at the artwork and
everybody kind of stands and andlooks and deep contemplation and
so forth. Well, the woman whose Gallery
showing this was she knew what Idid, you know, and she was so
excited to see me. You know, I'm kind of memorable
with the pink hair and she rent runs up to me and gives me
(08:23):
kisses and whatnot. And then she pulls in another
couple and she's like, oh my gosh, you have got to meet
Vanessa. And her husband, Vanessa is a
betrayal recovery. First, you've got to talk to
her, she's like, amazing out what she does.
And she was like, so excited, and then she darted off, leaving
me. And my husband would a couple.
We have never met and they both kind of look at us.
(08:45):
And I could tell immediately they were very uncomfortable,
but really uncomfortable and I was like, you know, nice to
meet, you know this before you know as Evelyn had introduced
me, you know, I'm a trusted advisor for betrayal and
transformation and you know, andthen they both look at my
husband almost Because that's usually the response and he nods
(09:06):
and he goes, yeah, I screwed up,you know, but this is what she
is. Now, look at hers and she
amazing, you know, type of thing.
So we have a good laugh about itand whatnot.
So the woman Jane just couldn't wait to get away.
Like she just could not wait to get away from us and she's like,
oh, I'm gonna go get a drink. So, she moved off and I kind of
shooed my husband away. I'm like, you need to go as
(09:28):
well. So me and John are standing in
front of this piece of art. I say, Saying, he says nothing.
And then he clears his throat. And he says, do you work with
men? I said, of course.
Okay, I'm going to need to talk to you.
You can find me at understandingear.com, that's all I said, no
(09:52):
business card, no nothing, you know, men as do women decide
what they're going to do, you know, in life?
You know, here's the information.
If you need me, you can reach out to me the very next day, my
phone rings. And it's John and he's really,
really struggling to talk. It's space.
(10:16):
That's what we do. We give space and I'd like to
actually refer to wonderful. You know, this from Eric Edmonds
Viktor Frankl, his men's search for meaning book.
As you can see it's weathered. I've read this numerous times,
this is brilliant. This is absolutely brilliant.
(10:36):
And as Eric Edmonds said on the ski lift up, you listen to it on
audio and then on the way down on your skis, you listen to Led
Zeppelin absolutely very much. So.
But this book amazing and he specifically mentions the quote
that I love is between the stimulus.
And the response there is a space there is A space and in
(11:01):
that space is the power to choose your response.
Are we in our response lies our growth?
And our freedom. That's huge.
So here I am on the phone. 10 minutes of silence with John.
(11:22):
Never once did I say are you still there?
Nothing of the sort. I could hear him breathe?
I could hear him SOB. I could hear him breathe.
I could hear him clear his throat and he said why why did
this happen to me? I still don't know anything
about the situation. I don't know whether he was the
(11:43):
Betrayed or the betrayer. I don't know.
If in fact, the trail is even a situation I'm assuming so but I
still don't know and we wind it up having a for our
conversation. Why?
Cuz he just needed to get it out.
He needed to talk to somebody about what was going on within
(12:06):
him. It was true.
Trapped, it was paralyzing him. And, of course, once he got it
all out, then all the questions,start flooding, and the
questions are common and they'vebeen common across the board.
So why why did she cheat? So we're going to go over the
six. Common want reasons why a woman
(12:29):
cheats. The first is intimacy.
Women tend to cheat for intimacymen tend to A cheat for sex,
there's a difference between sexand intimacy, okay?
Intimacy has that vulnerability aspect to it, it has that just
(12:49):
love and just peace. So why did she cheat?
Number one is intimacy, lack of intimacy.
Number two, and this is the samefor men and women.
They want to leave the relationship, but they feel like
they can't leave the relationship.
It's kind of similar into the Godfather when his wife wants to
(13:12):
leave and he's not letting her go.
So what does she do? She aborts his son?
She's like, I know that you willnever ever be able to forgive me
for that. You know, she was right.
He took him a long time to forgive her for that, but
wanting out of the relationship.That's a big one then there's
low self-esteem. Suddenly a man pays attention to
(13:37):
your wife and suddenly, she feels that she feels that
attraction. She feels that false sense of
intimacy. Then there's lack of female
support. Yes.
Females need support, just like men, need support of other men.
That's why team sports are so popular.
(13:57):
It's men getting together. It's women getting together.
Together to do Sports. It's the camaraderie without
that camaraderie, without that support.
Women are lost. Same with men, then there is an
unrealistic expectation. Yeah, an unrealistic
expectation. I'm sorry Disney destroyed it
(14:19):
for so many couples, very much, so the white that white horse
and the night and the chivalry and the whole nine yards.
Yeah, that's an unrealistic expectation.
So, unrealistic expectation of relationships from day one,
exactly. Exactly.
Or as they are supposed to evolve because sometimes women
(14:40):
who come from a long line, Line of like successful marriages in
our and see their grandparents and their parents and their
aunts and their uncles, and theyhave large families and the word
like divorce is never in there, you know, type of thing.
And they just have this unrealistic expectation.
Especially if they do have a lotof friends, we go back to the
(15:00):
previous one that they have a lot of friends and all our
friends, have these happy marriages and everything else.
So there's this unrealistic expectation that they have and
then the last one is just being lonely or Feeling neglected.
Like sometimes we just get into complacency where it's just, you
know, husband comes home and dinners on the table and we
(15:22):
watch TV and we do this and theygot it gets routine.
And maybe for the husband, he enjoys that he enjoys that, that
closeness that way, for him, it feels like closeness for her.
It feels like a rut, you know, she wants to go out.
She wants to be, you know, Tate and taken out on date night.
She wants to be shown off. You know what?
(15:42):
Ever. It might be.
Now, I need to make sure that I'm very Crystal.
Clear. These reasons.
Why are absolutely not an excuse, not at all.
I do not. Do not Advocate betraying on
your partner for any reason. If you want out of the
relationship, you talk to your partner, you communicate with
(16:08):
your partner. You don't do an action that
completely destroys them. It's completely unnecessary, it,
true. All of these reasons resulting
to actions are an avoidance of adifficult conversation.
Exactly. That's exactly it.
So, what is the man feel? Okay, and again, I can't speak
(16:30):
for men because I'm not a man, but I can speak on behalf of my
clients. The first thing is shocked.
Like what then? There's confusion like, what?
What? Huh, hmm, then, There's
heartache then there's rage their sadness and then there's
their territorial. Well, was it because, as I
(16:53):
mentioned before, we talked about it, previously there's a
great website. Its truth about deception
Foundation, truth about discussion foundation and what
they have done over the years isthey have compiled information.
Regarding deception regarding infidel Leti regarding cheating,
(17:14):
they have 95 thousand responses.This is great wealth of
information, and they indicated that 90% of the women that cheat
have an emotional connection with whomever, they cheated,
with its emotional first, 71 percent of the men.
(17:35):
It's a one-night stand. It's physical 43 percent of the
women who cheat cheat with somebody that they both know,
whereas males, it's only 22 percent that they both know,
meaning 78% are strangers, strangers lose white, doesn't
(17:56):
know him. Most of the time, he doesn't
know her either, you know, type of thing.
But here we are. We're a man realizes that his
wife is cheating. He suddenly becomes territory.
Toriel as well. Like who is it?
And I want, it's not something where it's not the similar
situation, where two guys get into a bar fight and, you know,
(18:18):
they beat the crap out of each other and then, you know, the
fights over and you know, he extends his hand to lift the guy
up off the floor and you know I'll buy you a beer now.
No, you screw my wife, I'm not buying you a beer.
You know, that's not going to happen.
Becomes very, very territorial. So it becomes so Overwhelming
(18:38):
for men and then they have all of this background information.
All these things going on behindthe scenes, their childhood
comes front-and-center, their parents come front and center
their father becomes front and center and suddenly it's
extremely overwhelming for them.And they find themselves
(19:03):
paralyzed, they are drowning in quicksand.
And they either stand still and they're still syncing or they
struggle and they're still sinking and it becomes extremely
overwhelming. That's kind of where I stepped
in. And in John's case, I worked
with him for a long period of time because we needed to break
(19:29):
down what was going on for him, how he was actually feeling
because there were differences between how he felt and how he
felt Society. Thought he should feel, there's
a two different things sometimeslooks so The Times They Are, you
know, and he wanted Keep it veryquiet as did his wife.
(19:51):
So that was good because you know when a wife is cheated on,
she wants to scream it from the mountaintops and she wants to
let that toothpaste out of the tube whereas men want to keep it
very, very close to the chest. It's more of a struggle for men
to get over it. Because of the territorial
(20:11):
nastas of it. I know they'd suddenly look at
their wife differently, I mean, women look at their husbands
differently as well, but the Forgiveness aspect is a little
different and that is a very delicate could be slippery slope
(20:32):
to go through. Is that much more men taking it
personally and kind of owning mywife, protecting my wife and
yeah well I'll fight you to the death because you did this and
correct and they do that externally and and women kind of
like that because then they suddenly have that Disney
Experience where you know, oh He's Rising it, he's defending
(20:55):
my honor, you know, and public law, and this, and that women
can get kind of addicted to that.
To be like, oh, you know, kind of thing, and they'll use that
because I think that that experience can change all the
many of the reasons you said earlier, it's always get good.
If those are empty cups, they get filled up by that experience
(21:17):
of being fought over and exactlyexactly.
And we see it, we see it in all Cinema.
Now I mean look at Game of Thrones and you know, just
though the um, you know, and themen being Men of Steel, you
know, type of thing. And we And of do it to
ourselves, these stereotypes that we pigeonhole people into
(21:38):
but then we also pigeon-holed the reactions that people are
supposed to have related to it. So men can drop into a spiral
where it just starts to spiral down and spiral down in spiral
down and they really struggle and that's that, when that
(22:00):
happens. They Turtle themselves in into
that. She'll it's really hard to crack
it because then they then feel that their manhood is affected.
and, Women go into a situation where they don't feel like
(22:22):
they're good enough. Men don't quite have it the same
way in that respect at least themen that I've worked with.
It's not that they don't feel like they're good enough to
their wife. They don't feel like they're
good enough to society because they haven't Protected Their
woman. They haven't even though they'd
(22:43):
been the protector and the provider and they've been, you
know, they've been the strengthen, the pillars,
Strength and I have the family and I take care of them and
this, and that when this situation happens, that cracks
that Persona full force. And then, of course, other men
aren't helpful. If they get wind of it,
(23:05):
especially at a bar or somethingsuddenly the, you know, men's
are getting that are getting ribbed for it.
Yeah. Your wife stepped out on you and
all this other kind of nonsense,so they like they really dig it
in. Come on said really necessary,
you know, type of thing or he doesn't Want to say anything to
anybody else because he doesn't want to fight off, everybody
else. You know, especially if 44
(23:27):
percent of the women who cheat cheat with somebody, they both
know, and how it really comes down to communication, as we
started to say, it does it just does.
So it starts a journey of self forgiveness, because the man has
to forgive himself, he does whether he forgives his wife as
(23:52):
a difference. Story.
It really starts with himself. He needs to forgive himself
because he is going to start going through a checklist of
everything that he didn't do. Right.
Was I not enough of a provider. Did I not get her this thing or
that thing or materialistic thing or whatever?
The situation is? But he's got to talk.
(24:15):
He's got to ask those questions.Is this journey of Soul?
Forgiveness, different. If the If the wife wants the
relationship to continue or doesn't.
Yes, it's absolutely. It, it falls into two different
categories just as you said, so if she didn't cheat, if she
(24:37):
cheated for all the variety of reasons except for the fact that
she wanted out of the relationship, she made a
mistake. Okay.
Under, you know, again, I'm not condoning it.
I'm not saying that. That's, that's right.
Betrayal is betrayal, it just isCheating is cheating.
It's a choice that you make in that moment of time, you can say
(24:59):
no in that moment of time you can back off and say, mmm!
Yum yum! No!
No! Hey, don't want this from a man
or woman's perspective. You can step back.
You do have the choice, whether you are going to cheat on your
spouse. Now, if the man and the woman
(25:20):
decide that, you know, that wasn't the reason that she
didn't want to. You know, leave the relationship
she wants to stay that journey of self-forgiveness is layered
because now he has not only to forgive himself for what he
feels. Might be her his shortcomings
and it really depends on what the why is, why did she do this?
(25:44):
You know. And if she expresses well, I'm
lonely and neglectful, you know,we moved across the country.
I have no friends. I have no, nothing.
Somebody finally paid me at Attention, you're always working
again. These are reasons, but they're
still not excuses, he can decideagain his choice.
(26:05):
He can decide whether he wants to forgive her, but he has to
forgive himself right either way, either way, the religions
going man has to give himself. For this happened, has to
forgive himself. He cannot internalized blame.
He just can't. So we go back to my wonderful,
Viktor Frankl and he said, when we are no longer able to change
(26:29):
a situation, when we are no longer able to change a
situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Profound absolutely profound. So if you cannot change the
situation that you're in, let's say, for example, in this
(26:50):
particular situation, you have children, you come from a broken
home, your parents got divorced.You know what that feels like as
a child to have your family, go through a divorce and now your
wife has stepped out. You're angry.
You're going through the all theemotions.
But you suddenly have that situation in the back of your
(27:12):
mind, I don't want to divorce. I do not want to put my kids
through that. I will do, I will challenge
myself. I cannot change the situation.
I feel that I need to stay married for the benefit of my
children. And I need to change.
(27:32):
Because I've been challenged to do so it's very very important
and it's really that journey of self-forgiveness.
You really have to forgive yourself first before you can
look out on everything else and they really decide in that
moment of shock. When a man first discovers that
his partner has betrayed him. Is there something that
(27:54):
definitely should do and, and, or shouldn't do, or is it just
unique for every situation? It's definitely unique.
Research equation. I always encourage all of my
clients, regardless of gender. To pause to pause to breathe to
give themselves space to give themselves time do not make any
(28:19):
decisions, no decisions whatsoever, don't make a
decision, one way or the other way you are too emotional or
lack of emotion because you could have apathy, you know?
And just be completely devoid ofany feeling because you've gone
completely numb, you know That happens as well, but just to
(28:40):
pause to breathe to slow it down.
Very much so because there's toomuch happening there just is and
you really need to slow it down.And then you need to regain
control. You need to rebuild trust and
(29:01):
trust is layer by layer. It's Brick by Brick.
It does not happen overnight. It does not at all and that
requires certain things that we spoke about in episode 3, 01,
complete, transparency, completeD that you are completely honest
everything. You lay it all on the table, you
(29:24):
communicate communication is such a key and we Circle back to
exactly where we started. Where communication is
absolutely key and you need to step out of the Shadows because
you will Turtle yourself in and that hard shell.
Yeah, it's hard to get hard to get anybody in there very, very
much. So what helps for most of the
(29:46):
men that I work work with them. What I suggest is definitely
support groups without a doubt. The camaraderie of talking to
another man who has been througha similar experience, speaks
volumes. That's why 12 step programs are
so needed and so beneficial because of that sponsorship
(30:11):
situation that you have just knowing that another man in out
you can come out of the Shadows.And kind of talk about this
because again, there's that shame aspect that Society is put
on men related to this topic. And it's definitely, they need
to ground themselves in any kindof self-care practice that they
(30:34):
enjoy. They really need to pause.
They should not bury this. They have to face it and
sometimes facing this means facing things from the past as
well, and that's okay, it's absolutely okay because maybe
some of those things from the past.
Were meant to be here, front andcenter now so that you can deal
(30:57):
with it wiser than you were back.
Then when you initially went through that experience now you
have wisdom and now you can pivot and see it from a
different angle and maybe clean up.
Up all those things, which will then help you deal with the
Betrayal. So it sounds like Dairy to do
(31:19):
this alone. Makes it infinitely more
challenging. Oh, yeah, anything you do alone.
You know, you might feel like you're doing it faster.
But you're not you're really not.
And basically what you're doing is you're shoveling the dirt on
a little faster because all you're doing is burying it,
you're not dealing with it and you need to deal with it.
(31:41):
Yeah, absolutely. Because because Men by Nature we
have the masks that we have it all figured out and we don't
need anybody. But when you eat these somebody
and you meet other men that are have are going through or have
been through that same situation.
Yeah I personal experience this such a release this such a
relief and knowing that others can survive things, they give
(32:02):
gives you the hope that. Whoa, maybe I could maybe I can
see my way through this as well too.
So yeah, there's tremendous power in men's groups for men
because it's it's so Rare that we would publicly share.
Exactly, exactly. And it's important to do so.
And you know, that's why Facebook is really interesting
because now you have the opportunity to post anonymously.
(32:24):
So, you know, if you don't want to put your name on there,
that's fine. No.
Absolutely. But get get that support, that
you need. Not that.
I'm advocating, Facebook groups.I'm want to be very, very
cautious on that. You know, if you're going to
join your voice Facebook group, make sure it's really small like
under Under 3,000, maybe even under 1,000 members, because
(32:45):
anything bigger than that, unfortunately, you have to deal
with judgment. And in this very vulnerable
state of being betrayed, you do not need the Judgment of
everybody else. No.
You need the understanding ear, you need the camaraderie and
just as you said, uh, talking tosomeone else that has been
(33:09):
through your experience. Oh, it's just like oh thank you.
You have you have your shit together.
I'm going to get there, you know.
Now there's hope I now have hopeand that's the best thing.
So I talked to so many men that a relationship ends and and
those are the guys that choose to just go the opposite way and
(33:29):
and shut down and all women's suck.
You can't trust anybody. And there's such a danger and
falling into that into that overgeneralizing and thinking that
whatever your situation was is how everything shall be from
this. Day forward.
And that's when working with somebody that can kind of
witness and is outside and not so charged can just benefit
(33:51):
tremendously. Yes, very very much so.
So we're going to end with my favorite again, Man's Search for
meaning. Everything can be taken from a
man. Everything can be taken from a
man. But one thing The last of the
human freedoms to choose one's attitude, in any given set of
(34:17):
circumstances to choose One's Own Way.
Profound words. Absolutely brilliant.
In this was written as we know decades ago but this this is a
Bible for a lot of men and it's extremely extremely valuable and
(34:39):
I encourage all of my clients toread it very much.
So is that? So Vanessa, what's the best way
for people to find out more about what you offer?
Well, first off is my website understanding ear.com.
There is a A large section of for betrayed men on there, you
can always reach out to me as well through my website.
(35:01):
I am on Instagram, trusted underscore advisor underscore
for underscore betrayal. So you can always find me on
Instagram as well. Again for men who have been
betrayed, I am the best kept secret, so it's not something
that I'm like, woohoo here. I am type of thing because I
want men to feel comfortable, reaching out to me and it's
(35:23):
always of With the strictest confidence as well.
And I've worked with men for as long as 18 months, and I know
that seems like a long duration,but when you go through betrayal
some men, you know, decide to leave their relationship and
then they start the dating. And when you start dating after
betrayal, there's a whole different set of circumstances.
(35:46):
And as you mentioned having thisgeneralization of, well, every
woman's going to hurt me, you know, type of thing, we need to
kind of move through those limiting.
And beliefs and what not? And I've worked with men for as
little as you know, 34 sessions,just to get them over that.
Hump of I just need to talk. I just need to talk and get this
(36:07):
out. And usually what we are
conclusion is it's great that you've spoken to me and I've
helped you kind of articulate your words, but now you need to
speak to your wife. That's who you need to share
this with, and if she's not receptive, Of to it then we need
to have a conversation the threeof us.
(36:27):
But usually by that point they're comfortable enough in
speaking their truth because that's what it is.
They need to speak their truth. They usually then subsequently
move on. So it sounds like all best
actions and outcomes. Communication, it keeps coming
back and back to the end of the show.
If you're a man, that was raisedand taught and told that you're
(36:49):
supposed to stuff and deny and not share not have feelings to
begin with. You're setting yourself up for a
life of Despair. Hmm. you know, I noticed the
first time you're on two episodes ago, More comments than
normal all across YouTube acrossfrom Yeoman feel dot org and the
(37:11):
blog post but all the comments were from women.
And yeah, and it helps get like,I like all the stats that I can
see from any sort of platform, that breaks it down.
There are more male listeners than female, but far more filho,
people will stand up and publicly say, I listened to the
show and I got something from this show.
So many of you, haven't listenedto the prior prior show, with,
(37:32):
with Vanessa do, so you don't need to be.
A perpetrator or a victim of betrayal to get gold out of this
information because again, it comes back to communication, it
comes back to enjoying that pause not being over, reactive
not just jumping into anger, if that's what you're prone to do.
It's not just jumping into shame.
If you feel like you've been blamed or it's something
(37:54):
anything is your fault a relationship ending, does not
make a failure out of anybody now.
Dan Savage said it best, oh my God, he had the best quote, he
was in about divorce and how, you know, when people comment on
divorced people are like, oh, I'm so sorry this and that, and
he's like, no, no, no. We should be congratulating
(38:16):
them. You you survived X.
Number of years, that's great. And you both made the decision
to divorce kudos to you. Congratulations on being in a
long-term relationship for X number of years.
Congrats. And I love that.
I'm like yes, that's exactly it.You know because Whew, if you
(38:37):
lost your spouse to death, you know, people would say oh you
were married for 30 years, you know.
Congratulations, you know, that's okay.
But if you say, oh, you know, I've been married for 30 years
but we got divorced. Oh, I'm so sorry.
No way, wait a second. No know why is it different
whether the spouse died or the spouse moved on, you know, with
someone else? Yeah, good point.
(39:00):
Yeah. And I earlier this year, we had
a show on being happily divorcedbecause another man that
introduced himself that way. Yeah, you can.
Ideally, it is the best decisionfor all involved.
Ideally any decision, a couple makes is the best decision for
all involved. So yeah, there's not reason to
be. Oh, that's so I'm so sorry.
You made a decision. No, no, this is great.
You made a decision that, that, that in and of itself because
(39:23):
sometimes we get paralyzed in making a decision.
And that's usually what I need to work.
With my clients, all my clients on is making that decision,
whether you stay in your relationship or you move.
And from your relationship is inconsequential to me as a
trusted advisor. It makes no difference to me,
either way what I want for my clients is that they've made a
(39:47):
decision and that they're comfortable with the decision
that they've made their not wishy-washy about it and
whatnot. They're comfortable with it,
it's not going to be 100%. You can't make a decision on
anything, that's a hundred percent.
But in this situation, if you're85 percent comfortable, Leaning
in this direction and that's their Direction you want to go
(40:09):
in then jump in, you know, and do so, yeah.
Yeah. If I had so much the most
beneficial part of coaching, receiving coaching being a
client when the is making decisions moving forward, not
just me on my own when I'm down in bed.
I will stay stuck and an apathy for as long as life will, let me
uh-huh. But when I work with someone to
(40:30):
get pushed and prodded and reminded of the value, I add the
goodness that's in me that that coffin, we can't see, you know
that that's just what matters most and you know I believe
Everybody makes the best decision, they can in any
circumstance, but it doesn't mean that is the best decision
for, you know, the rest of your life or for a relationship or
(40:52):
any like that. So, yeah, self-forgiveness
nothing. Nothing can happen without that
great and you continue to move on and what we do as humans and
ourselves is that we don't invest in ourselves.
You're a dog owner. I'm a dog owner.
Anything happened to scout? Oh my gosh you're there at the
vet just like that whatever she needs.
She can have it all. No.
(41:12):
No problem whatsoever. But you, mmm.
Do you invest in yourself? You do I do.
But the average people don't invest in themselves and that's
a really big concern. You need to invest in yourself.
You need those people around you, to lift you up, to show you
(41:34):
your own potential. We all see it.
Sometimes, it's hard to see it yourself, especially if you're
in the jar. You can't see the label, right?
Yeah. When you're in a bucket of mud,
you think your mud exactly. Thanks Vanessa.
Thanks so much. I am sure we will talk again, I
look forward to it. So full of wisdom, and insights,
(41:55):
and just real world help and service.
So, thanks for everyone, listening.
Thanks to be sure. And check out prior shows,
everything that Vanessa mentioned as well as her of
Prior appearance, visit Real Men, full Is it via visit real
men feel that org? See the blog post for this
episode? We'll have links to all the
various links books and resources mentioned wherever
(42:16):
you're discovering real men. Feel, Please, Subscribe.
Follow like share the summon, post a review, a comment.
Especially if you're a man, you can always reach out to me at
real men, feel at gmail.com, be good to yourself, forgive
yourself and live, your best fucking life possible.
Be well. Be well.
Hello and welcome to real men. Feel I'm your host author coach
and healer and e-grant, you can visit vnd grant.com.
For more information about me, real men, feel exist to remind
men at the human beings and havethe right to experience and
express all of their emotions. We have conversations that most
men are not having but that all men can benefit from men and
women deal with emotions differently.
(00:21):
You may have to say it discovered that but we all have
them and any man who believes that stuffing and denying their
emotions are the path to happiness and this Successful
life. Well, not my experience and it's
not the experience of any man I ever talked.
One of the greatest emotions, one of the greatest painful
emotions, a man might ever experience is one of being
(00:43):
betrayed that we're going to look at today.
Today is part 2 of recovering, from betrayal and we are
focusing on men being betrayed by women.
My returning guest, is Vanessa Cardenas.
She is your trusted advisor for portrayal and transformation.
Vanessa is a highly experienced c-suite Executives.
Mentor coach and speaker with a degree in industrial psychology.
She's also the founder and CEO of understanding ear where she
(01:05):
empowers individuals and To healfrom betrayal amplifying their
authenticity and how to find love and happiness.
On their terms. Welcome back to real men.
Feel Vanessa, thank you so much,Andy.
Oh, I can't wait to jump in and get started.
What you do is absolutely amazing.
So thank you so much for the space because this truly is a
(01:26):
needed space especially for men to know that they have somewhere
safe that they can just be real and be themselves.
So that Thank you, awesome. Yeah.
And that's a great thing to point out because the title of,
you know, I'm not saying that ifyou're not a man, if you don't
like the real and being real is,yeah, real genuine honest being
yourself. I'm not saying that there's you,
(01:48):
you're not a man. If you aren't, you know, willing
to cry in public and there's no emotional disclaimers or
containers that, that I believe in, but that's it.
So, you should a lot of valuableinformation.
Just a few weeks ago. Episode 301, did you betray your
partner and we focused on men wanting to heal.
Relationship after being unfaithful to their partner.
(02:09):
So today, we're doing the flip side.
So, how different is the experience of recovering from
betrayal? When you are the portrayed
party? Yes, well, keep in mind that I
can't speak from the male point of view because I am not mail.
So I am speaking on behalf of the clients that I have worked
(02:30):
with and there have been quite anumber of them.
And initially when I started outyears ago, I really focused on
women and it wasn't so much men.A lot of the women would say,
oh, you know, could you speak tomy husband?
And that was kind of interestingand I started to do.
So, again, from the perspective of the man, cheating on his
(02:51):
wife, then because of what I do,it started to kind of turn and
it was a very interesting Dynamic, but it was more
underground. Meaning if you've ever seen the
movie Hitch with Will Smith and Kevin James.
Okay, hitches. You know, this underground guy,
(03:12):
that helps men, you know, date and get women.
And it turns out that, you know,he works with Kevin Hart and
Kevin Hart's woman that he's attracted to he follows.
Hitches advice and everything else, and she's not really into
them, but anytime he's himself and he's real, that's what
(03:33):
attracts her to him. And I always found that movie
really Really fascinating on that level but then I also
started finding it interesting. On the other level of how hitch
is kind of underground. He gets one referral from
another, it doesn't advertise, he's not all over the place.
Doesn't say, oh, you know, I'm The Love Guru.
You can come find me and I'll help you find women.
(03:55):
Now, it's very, very undergroundand I started to feel that way
as well that my men that I was working with who had been
betrayed. Felt a lot of Shame and they
were very quiet about it and very reserved about it.
Whereas women just want to scream it from the mountaintops.
They want to take on a little bit of a role of victim.
(04:18):
Well, men never take the role ofvictim.
No, they're Men of Steel or their velvet, but there's still,
you know, there and they're firm.
And they have all of these limiting beliefs of how they are
supposed to be. And when they are betrayed There
is a cascading situation that starts to happen for them.
(04:40):
So I want to set the parameters kind of similar to what we did
last time on episode 3, 0 1, butI want to make sure that we have
a nice clear understanding of what we're going to do.
You did a fantastic episode? It was episode 149 and this is
where you actually Andy got really real and you got really
(05:03):
vulnerable and I I thank you forthat because most men will not
be that vulnerable. You not only were you
vulnerable, you let your story out for everyone to hear for the
whole world to hear. And when that happened, that was
such an amazing thing. So, I want to touch on that
(05:23):
because for the men that are listening, if you find yourself
in this situation, you need to go back to 149 episode 149, and
listen to that. That is for Men that are in an
emotionally abusive relationship, it's an aggressive
relationship. It's maybe a secret
(05:44):
relationship. People don't know about it,
their wounds that are inflicted on you from your woman, whether
that's emotional or actually physical.
And you start to question your reality like, is this really
going on? Am I in this situation?
And then you have such a A deep sense of Shame and that shame
(06:07):
can live with you or hears. It can just hold on to you and
Andy, I have to thank you so much for being vulnerable and
expressing that out because now we see how you are today.
We see that growth and that is what provides hope for everyone
(06:31):
to see that progression of move.Forward.
So, thank you for that. You had another episode and that
was episode 226. You had a wonderful woman and
Silvers on, and she said that abuse.
Okay, we're still sticking with abuse for the moment isn't
always just One Direction with aman being mean, and a woman
(06:54):
being victimized, and that was very, very powerful in and of
itself. So, if you're a man, and you're
finding yourself and that type of situation where you're in an
abusive situation, And now you have been betrayed, you need to
listen to those two episodes because those two episodes will
help you for the purposes of today.
(07:14):
We are not talking about any type of abuse.
We are talking about a strict situation, where a husband and
wife we've been married for quite a bit of time.
The man gets blindsided by finding out that his wife has
cheated on him. She has betrayed him.
So I'd like to bring to mind because when I started thinking
(07:38):
and we were talking about doing part to the flip side of what we
spoke about last time, I startedto think back to all of my mail
clients and I actually needed tostart kind of with my first one
because he was the most memorable.
His name was John, we're going to change his name and his wife,
my husband and I met John and Jane at a gallery showing, okay,
(08:01):
and that's where you kind of mingle around.
You have your wine and you're looking at the artwork and
everybody kind of stands and andlooks and deep contemplation and
so forth. Well, the woman whose Gallery
showing this was she knew what Idid, you know, and she was so
excited to see me. You know, I'm kind of memorable
with the pink hair and she rent runs up to me and gives me
(08:23):
kisses and whatnot. And then she pulls in another
couple and she's like, oh my gosh, you have got to meet
Vanessa. And her husband, Vanessa is a
betrayal recovery. First, you've got to talk to
her, she's like, amazing out what she does.
And she was like, so excited, and then she darted off, leaving
me. And my husband would a couple.
We have never met and they both kind of look at us.
(08:45):
And I could tell immediately they were very uncomfortable,
but really uncomfortable and I was like, you know, nice to
meet, you know this before you know as Evelyn had introduced
me, you know, I'm a trusted advisor for betrayal and
transformation and you know, andthen they both look at my
husband almost Because that's usually the response and he nods
(09:06):
and he goes, yeah, I screwed up,you know, but this is what she
is. Now, look at hers and she
amazing, you know, type of thing.
So we have a good laugh about itand whatnot.
So the woman Jane just couldn't wait to get away.
Like she just could not wait to get away from us and she's like,
oh, I'm gonna go get a drink. So, she moved off and I kind of
shooed my husband away. I'm like, you need to go as
(09:28):
well. So me and John are standing in
front of this piece of art. I say, Saying, he says nothing.
And then he clears his throat. And he says, do you work with
men? I said, of course.
Okay, I'm going to need to talk to you.
You can find me at understandingear.com, that's all I said, no
(09:52):
business card, no nothing, you know, men as do women decide
what they're going to do, you know, in life?
You know, here's the information.
If you need me, you can reach out to me the very next day, my
phone rings. And it's John and he's really,
really struggling to talk. It's space.
(10:16):
That's what we do. We give space and I'd like to
actually refer to wonderful. You know, this from Eric Edmonds
Viktor Frankl, his men's search for meaning book.
As you can see it's weathered. I've read this numerous times,
this is brilliant. This is absolutely brilliant.
(10:36):
And as Eric Edmonds said on the ski lift up, you listen to it on
audio and then on the way down on your skis, you listen to Led
Zeppelin absolutely very much. So.
But this book amazing and he specifically mentions the quote
that I love is between the stimulus.
And the response there is a space there is A space and in
(11:01):
that space is the power to choose your response.
Are we in our response lies our growth?
And our freedom. That's huge.
So here I am on the phone. 10 minutes of silence with John.
(11:22):
Never once did I say are you still there?
Nothing of the sort. I could hear him breathe?
I could hear him SOB. I could hear him breathe.
I could hear him clear his throat and he said why why did
this happen to me? I still don't know anything
about the situation. I don't know whether he was the
(11:43):
Betrayed or the betrayer. I don't know.
If in fact, the trail is even a situation I'm assuming so but I
still don't know and we wind it up having a for our
conversation. Why?
Cuz he just needed to get it out.
He needed to talk to somebody about what was going on within
(12:06):
him. It was true.
Trapped, it was paralyzing him. And, of course, once he got it
all out, then all the questions,start flooding, and the
questions are common and they'vebeen common across the board.
So why why did she cheat? So we're going to go over the
six. Common want reasons why a woman
(12:29):
cheats. The first is intimacy.
Women tend to cheat for intimacymen tend to A cheat for sex,
there's a difference between sexand intimacy, okay?
Intimacy has that vulnerability aspect to it, it has that just
(12:49):
love and just peace. So why did she cheat?
Number one is intimacy, lack of intimacy.
Number two, and this is the samefor men and women.
They want to leave the relationship, but they feel like
they can't leave the relationship.
It's kind of similar into the Godfather when his wife wants to
(13:12):
leave and he's not letting her go.
So what does she do? She aborts his son?
She's like, I know that you willnever ever be able to forgive me
for that. You know, she was right.
He took him a long time to forgive her for that, but
wanting out of the relationship.That's a big one then there's
low self-esteem. Suddenly a man pays attention to
(13:37):
your wife and suddenly, she feels that she feels that
attraction. She feels that false sense of
intimacy. Then there's lack of female
support. Yes.
Females need support, just like men, need support of other men.
That's why team sports are so popular.
(13:57):
It's men getting together. It's women getting together.
Together to do Sports. It's the camaraderie without
that camaraderie, without that support.
Women are lost. Same with men, then there is an
unrealistic expectation. Yeah, an unrealistic
expectation. I'm sorry Disney destroyed it
(14:19):
for so many couples, very much, so the white that white horse
and the night and the chivalry and the whole nine yards.
Yeah, that's an unrealistic expectation.
So, unrealistic expectation of relationships from day one,
exactly. Exactly.
Or as they are supposed to evolve because sometimes women
(14:40):
who come from a long line, Line of like successful marriages in
our and see their grandparents and their parents and their
aunts and their uncles, and theyhave large families and the word
like divorce is never in there, you know, type of thing.
And they just have this unrealistic expectation.
Especially if they do have a lotof friends, we go back to the
(15:00):
previous one that they have a lot of friends and all our
friends, have these happy marriages and everything else.
So there's this unrealistic expectation that they have and
then the last one is just being lonely or Feeling neglected.
Like sometimes we just get into complacency where it's just, you
know, husband comes home and dinners on the table and we
(15:22):
watch TV and we do this and theygot it gets routine.
And maybe for the husband, he enjoys that he enjoys that, that
closeness that way, for him, it feels like closeness for her.
It feels like a rut, you know, she wants to go out.
She wants to be, you know, Tate and taken out on date night.
She wants to be shown off. You know what?
(15:42):
Ever. It might be.
Now, I need to make sure that I'm very Crystal.
Clear. These reasons.
Why are absolutely not an excuse, not at all.
I do not. Do not Advocate betraying on
your partner for any reason. If you want out of the
relationship, you talk to your partner, you communicate with
(16:08):
your partner. You don't do an action that
completely destroys them. It's completely unnecessary, it,
true. All of these reasons resulting
to actions are an avoidance of adifficult conversation.
Exactly. That's exactly it.
So, what is the man feel? Okay, and again, I can't speak
(16:30):
for men because I'm not a man, but I can speak on behalf of my
clients. The first thing is shocked.
Like what then? There's confusion like, what?
What? Huh, hmm, then, There's
heartache then there's rage their sadness and then there's
their territorial. Well, was it because, as I
(16:53):
mentioned before, we talked about it, previously there's a
great website. Its truth about deception
Foundation, truth about discussion foundation and what
they have done over the years isthey have compiled information.
Regarding deception regarding infidel Leti regarding cheating,
(17:14):
they have 95 thousand responses.This is great wealth of
information, and they indicated that 90% of the women that cheat
have an emotional connection with whomever, they cheated,
with its emotional first, 71 percent of the men.
(17:35):
It's a one-night stand. It's physical 43 percent of the
women who cheat cheat with somebody that they both know,
whereas males, it's only 22 percent that they both know,
meaning 78% are strangers, strangers lose white, doesn't
(17:56):
know him. Most of the time, he doesn't
know her either, you know, type of thing.
But here we are. We're a man realizes that his
wife is cheating. He suddenly becomes territory.
Toriel as well. Like who is it?
And I want, it's not something where it's not the similar
situation, where two guys get into a bar fight and, you know,
(18:18):
they beat the crap out of each other and then, you know, the
fights over and you know, he extends his hand to lift the guy
up off the floor and you know I'll buy you a beer now.
No, you screw my wife, I'm not buying you a beer.
You know, that's not going to happen.
Becomes very, very territorial. So it becomes so Overwhelming
(18:38):
for men and then they have all of this background information.
All these things going on behindthe scenes, their childhood
comes front-and-center, their parents come front and center
their father becomes front and center and suddenly it's
extremely overwhelming for them.And they find themselves
(19:03):
paralyzed, they are drowning in quicksand.
And they either stand still and they're still syncing or they
struggle and they're still sinking and it becomes extremely
overwhelming. That's kind of where I stepped
in. And in John's case, I worked
with him for a long period of time because we needed to break
(19:29):
down what was going on for him, how he was actually feeling
because there were differences between how he felt and how he
felt Society. Thought he should feel, there's
a two different things sometimeslooks so The Times They Are, you
know, and he wanted Keep it veryquiet as did his wife.
(19:51):
So that was good because you know when a wife is cheated on,
she wants to scream it from the mountaintops and she wants to
let that toothpaste out of the tube whereas men want to keep it
very, very close to the chest. It's more of a struggle for men
to get over it. Because of the territorial
(20:11):
nastas of it. I know they'd suddenly look at
their wife differently, I mean, women look at their husbands
differently as well, but the Forgiveness aspect is a little
different and that is a very delicate could be slippery slope
(20:32):
to go through. Is that much more men taking it
personally and kind of owning mywife, protecting my wife and
yeah well I'll fight you to the death because you did this and
correct and they do that externally and and women kind of
like that because then they suddenly have that Disney
Experience where you know, oh He's Rising it, he's defending
(20:55):
my honor, you know, and public law, and this, and that women
can get kind of addicted to that.
To be like, oh, you know, kind of thing, and they'll use that
because I think that that experience can change all the
many of the reasons you said earlier, it's always get good.
If those are empty cups, they get filled up by that experience
(21:17):
of being fought over and exactlyexactly.
And we see it, we see it in all Cinema.
Now I mean look at Game of Thrones and you know, just
though the um, you know, and themen being Men of Steel, you
know, type of thing. And we And of do it to
ourselves, these stereotypes that we pigeonhole people into
(21:38):
but then we also pigeon-holed the reactions that people are
supposed to have related to it. So men can drop into a spiral
where it just starts to spiral down and spiral down in spiral
down and they really struggle and that's that, when that
(22:00):
happens. They Turtle themselves in into
that. She'll it's really hard to crack
it because then they then feel that their manhood is affected.
and, Women go into a situation where they don't feel like
(22:22):
they're good enough. Men don't quite have it the same
way in that respect at least themen that I've worked with.
It's not that they don't feel like they're good enough to
their wife. They don't feel like they're
good enough to society because they haven't Protected Their
woman. They haven't even though they'd
(22:43):
been the protector and the provider and they've been, you
know, they've been the strengthen, the pillars,
Strength and I have the family and I take care of them and
this, and that when this situation happens, that cracks
that Persona full force. And then, of course, other men
aren't helpful. If they get wind of it,
(23:05):
especially at a bar or somethingsuddenly the, you know, men's
are getting that are getting ribbed for it.
Yeah. Your wife stepped out on you and
all this other kind of nonsense,so they like they really dig it
in. Come on said really necessary,
you know, type of thing or he doesn't Want to say anything to
anybody else because he doesn't want to fight off, everybody
else. You know, especially if 44
(23:27):
percent of the women who cheat cheat with somebody, they both
know, and how it really comes down to communication, as we
started to say, it does it just does.
So it starts a journey of self forgiveness, because the man has
to forgive himself, he does whether he forgives his wife as
(23:52):
a difference. Story.
It really starts with himself. He needs to forgive himself
because he is going to start going through a checklist of
everything that he didn't do. Right.
Was I not enough of a provider. Did I not get her this thing or
that thing or materialistic thing or whatever?
The situation is? But he's got to talk.
(24:15):
He's got to ask those questions.Is this journey of Soul?
Forgiveness, different. If the If the wife wants the
relationship to continue or doesn't.
Yes, it's absolutely. It, it falls into two different
categories just as you said, so if she didn't cheat, if she
(24:37):
cheated for all the variety of reasons except for the fact that
she wanted out of the relationship, she made a
mistake. Okay.
Under, you know, again, I'm not condoning it.
I'm not saying that. That's, that's right.
Betrayal is betrayal, it just isCheating is cheating.
It's a choice that you make in that moment of time, you can say
(24:59):
no in that moment of time you can back off and say, mmm!
Yum yum! No!
No! Hey, don't want this from a man
or woman's perspective. You can step back.
You do have the choice, whether you are going to cheat on your
spouse. Now, if the man and the woman
(25:20):
decide that, you know, that wasn't the reason that she
didn't want to. You know, leave the relationship
she wants to stay that journey of self-forgiveness is layered
because now he has not only to forgive himself for what he
feels. Might be her his shortcomings
and it really depends on what the why is, why did she do this?
(25:44):
You know. And if she expresses well, I'm
lonely and neglectful, you know,we moved across the country.
I have no friends. I have no, nothing.
Somebody finally paid me at Attention, you're always working
again. These are reasons, but they're
still not excuses, he can decideagain his choice.
(26:05):
He can decide whether he wants to forgive her, but he has to
forgive himself right either way, either way, the religions
going man has to give himself. For this happened, has to
forgive himself. He cannot internalized blame.
He just can't. So we go back to my wonderful,
Viktor Frankl and he said, when we are no longer able to change
(26:29):
a situation, when we are no longer able to change a
situation, we are challenged to change ourselves.
Profound absolutely profound. So if you cannot change the
situation that you're in, let's say, for example, in this
(26:50):
particular situation, you have children, you come from a broken
home, your parents got divorced.You know what that feels like as
a child to have your family, go through a divorce and now your
wife has stepped out. You're angry.
You're going through the all theemotions.
But you suddenly have that situation in the back of your
(27:12):
mind, I don't want to divorce. I do not want to put my kids
through that. I will do, I will challenge
myself. I cannot change the situation.
I feel that I need to stay married for the benefit of my
children. And I need to change.
(27:32):
Because I've been challenged to do so it's very very important
and it's really that journey of self-forgiveness.
You really have to forgive yourself first before you can
look out on everything else and they really decide in that
moment of shock. When a man first discovers that
his partner has betrayed him. Is there something that
(27:54):
definitely should do and, and, or shouldn't do, or is it just
unique for every situation? It's definitely unique.
Research equation. I always encourage all of my
clients, regardless of gender. To pause to pause to breathe to
give themselves space to give themselves time do not make any
(28:19):
decisions, no decisions whatsoever, don't make a
decision, one way or the other way you are too emotional or
lack of emotion because you could have apathy, you know?
And just be completely devoid ofany feeling because you've gone
completely numb, you know That happens as well, but just to
(28:40):
pause to breathe to slow it down.
Very much so because there's toomuch happening there just is and
you really need to slow it down.And then you need to regain
control. You need to rebuild trust and
(29:01):
trust is layer by layer. It's Brick by Brick.
It does not happen overnight. It does not at all and that
requires certain things that we spoke about in episode 3, 01,
complete, transparency, completeD that you are completely honest
everything. You lay it all on the table, you
(29:24):
communicate communication is such a key and we Circle back to
exactly where we started. Where communication is
absolutely key and you need to step out of the Shadows because
you will Turtle yourself in and that hard shell.
Yeah, it's hard to get hard to get anybody in there very, very
much. So what helps for most of the
(29:46):
men that I work work with them. What I suggest is definitely
support groups without a doubt. The camaraderie of talking to
another man who has been througha similar experience, speaks
volumes. That's why 12 step programs are
so needed and so beneficial because of that sponsorship
(30:11):
situation that you have just knowing that another man in out
you can come out of the Shadows.And kind of talk about this
because again, there's that shame aspect that Society is put
on men related to this topic. And it's definitely, they need
to ground themselves in any kindof self-care practice that they
(30:34):
enjoy. They really need to pause.
They should not bury this. They have to face it and
sometimes facing this means facing things from the past as
well, and that's okay, it's absolutely okay because maybe
some of those things from the past.
Were meant to be here, front andcenter now so that you can deal
(30:57):
with it wiser than you were back.
Then when you initially went through that experience now you
have wisdom and now you can pivot and see it from a
different angle and maybe clean up.
Up all those things, which will then help you deal with the
Betrayal. So it sounds like Dairy to do
(31:19):
this alone. Makes it infinitely more
challenging. Oh, yeah, anything you do alone.
You know, you might feel like you're doing it faster.
But you're not you're really not.
And basically what you're doing is you're shoveling the dirt on
a little faster because all you're doing is burying it,
you're not dealing with it and you need to deal with it.
(31:41):
Yeah, absolutely. Because because Men by Nature we
have the masks that we have it all figured out and we don't
need anybody. But when you eat these somebody
and you meet other men that are have are going through or have
been through that same situation.
Yeah I personal experience this such a release this such a
relief and knowing that others can survive things, they give
(32:02):
gives you the hope that. Whoa, maybe I could maybe I can
see my way through this as well too.
So yeah, there's tremendous power in men's groups for men
because it's it's so Rare that we would publicly share.
Exactly, exactly. And it's important to do so.
And you know, that's why Facebook is really interesting
because now you have the opportunity to post anonymously.
(32:24):
So, you know, if you don't want to put your name on there,
that's fine. No.
Absolutely. But get get that support, that
you need. Not that.
I'm advocating, Facebook groups.I'm want to be very, very
cautious on that. You know, if you're going to
join your voice Facebook group, make sure it's really small like
under Under 3,000, maybe even under 1,000 members, because
(32:45):
anything bigger than that, unfortunately, you have to deal
with judgment. And in this very vulnerable
state of being betrayed, you do not need the Judgment of
everybody else. No.
You need the understanding ear, you need the camaraderie and
just as you said, uh, talking tosomeone else that has been
(33:09):
through your experience. Oh, it's just like oh thank you.
You have you have your shit together.
I'm going to get there, you know.
Now there's hope I now have hopeand that's the best thing.
So I talked to so many men that a relationship ends and and
those are the guys that choose to just go the opposite way and
(33:29):
and shut down and all women's suck.
You can't trust anybody. And there's such a danger and
falling into that into that overgeneralizing and thinking that
whatever your situation was is how everything shall be from
this. Day forward.
And that's when working with somebody that can kind of
witness and is outside and not so charged can just benefit
(33:51):
tremendously. Yes, very very much so.
So we're going to end with my favorite again, Man's Search for
meaning. Everything can be taken from a
man. Everything can be taken from a
man. But one thing The last of the
human freedoms to choose one's attitude, in any given set of
(34:17):
circumstances to choose One's Own Way.
Profound words. Absolutely brilliant.
In this was written as we know decades ago but this this is a
Bible for a lot of men and it's extremely extremely valuable and
(34:39):
I encourage all of my clients toread it very much.
So is that? So Vanessa, what's the best way
for people to find out more about what you offer?
Well, first off is my website understanding ear.com.
There is a A large section of for betrayed men on there, you
can always reach out to me as well through my website.
(35:01):
I am on Instagram, trusted underscore advisor underscore
for underscore betrayal. So you can always find me on
Instagram as well. Again for men who have been
betrayed, I am the best kept secret, so it's not something
that I'm like, woohoo here. I am type of thing because I
want men to feel comfortable, reaching out to me and it's
(35:23):
always of With the strictest confidence as well.
And I've worked with men for as long as 18 months, and I know
that seems like a long duration,but when you go through betrayal
some men, you know, decide to leave their relationship and
then they start the dating. And when you start dating after
betrayal, there's a whole different set of circumstances.
(35:46):
And as you mentioned having thisgeneralization of, well, every
woman's going to hurt me, you know, type of thing, we need to
kind of move through those limiting.
And beliefs and what not? And I've worked with men for as
little as you know, 34 sessions,just to get them over that.
Hump of I just need to talk. I just need to talk and get this
(36:07):
out. And usually what we are
conclusion is it's great that you've spoken to me and I've
helped you kind of articulate your words, but now you need to
speak to your wife. That's who you need to share
this with, and if she's not receptive, Of to it then we need
to have a conversation the threeof us.
(36:27):
But usually by that point they're comfortable enough in
speaking their truth because that's what it is.
They need to speak their truth. They usually then subsequently
move on. So it sounds like all best
actions and outcomes. Communication, it keeps coming
back and back to the end of the show.
If you're a man, that was raisedand taught and told that you're
(36:49):
supposed to stuff and deny and not share not have feelings to
begin with. You're setting yourself up for a
life of Despair. Hmm. you know, I noticed the
first time you're on two episodes ago, More comments than
normal all across YouTube acrossfrom Yeoman feel dot org and the
(37:11):
blog post but all the comments were from women.
And yeah, and it helps get like,I like all the stats that I can
see from any sort of platform, that breaks it down.
There are more male listeners than female, but far more filho,
people will stand up and publicly say, I listened to the
show and I got something from this show.
So many of you, haven't listenedto the prior prior show, with,
(37:32):
with Vanessa do, so you don't need to be.
A perpetrator or a victim of betrayal to get gold out of this
information because again, it comes back to communication, it
comes back to enjoying that pause not being over, reactive
not just jumping into anger, if that's what you're prone to do.
It's not just jumping into shame.
If you feel like you've been blamed or it's something
(37:54):
anything is your fault a relationship ending, does not
make a failure out of anybody now.
Dan Savage said it best, oh my God, he had the best quote, he
was in about divorce and how, you know, when people comment on
divorced people are like, oh, I'm so sorry this and that, and
he's like, no, no, no. We should be congratulating
(38:16):
them. You you survived X.
Number of years, that's great. And you both made the decision
to divorce kudos to you. Congratulations on being in a
long-term relationship for X number of years.
Congrats. And I love that.
I'm like yes, that's exactly it.You know because Whew, if you
(38:37):
lost your spouse to death, you know, people would say oh you
were married for 30 years, you know.
Congratulations, you know, that's okay.
But if you say, oh, you know, I've been married for 30 years
but we got divorced. Oh, I'm so sorry.
No way, wait a second. No know why is it different
whether the spouse died or the spouse moved on, you know, with
someone else? Yeah, good point.
(39:00):
Yeah. And I earlier this year, we had
a show on being happily divorcedbecause another man that
introduced himself that way. Yeah, you can.
Ideally, it is the best decisionfor all involved.
Ideally any decision, a couple makes is the best decision for
all involved. So yeah, there's not reason to
be. Oh, that's so I'm so sorry.
You made a decision. No, no, this is great.
You made a decision that, that, that in and of itself because
(39:23):
sometimes we get paralyzed in making a decision.
And that's usually what I need to work.
With my clients, all my clients on is making that decision,
whether you stay in your relationship or you move.
And from your relationship is inconsequential to me as a
trusted advisor. It makes no difference to me,
either way what I want for my clients is that they've made a
(39:47):
decision and that they're comfortable with the decision
that they've made their not wishy-washy about it and
whatnot. They're comfortable with it,
it's not going to be 100%. You can't make a decision on
anything, that's a hundred percent.
But in this situation, if you're85 percent comfortable, Leaning
in this direction and that's their Direction you want to go
(40:09):
in then jump in, you know, and do so, yeah.
Yeah. If I had so much the most
beneficial part of coaching, receiving coaching being a
client when the is making decisions moving forward, not
just me on my own when I'm down in bed.
I will stay stuck and an apathy for as long as life will, let me
uh-huh. But when I work with someone to
(40:30):
get pushed and prodded and reminded of the value, I add the
goodness that's in me that that coffin, we can't see, you know
that that's just what matters most and you know I believe
Everybody makes the best decision, they can in any
circumstance, but it doesn't mean that is the best decision
for, you know, the rest of your life or for a relationship or
(40:52):
any like that. So, yeah, self-forgiveness
nothing. Nothing can happen without that
great and you continue to move on and what we do as humans and
ourselves is that we don't invest in ourselves.
You're a dog owner. I'm a dog owner.
Anything happened to scout? Oh my gosh you're there at the
vet just like that whatever she needs.
She can have it all. No.
(41:12):
No problem whatsoever. But you, mmm.
Do you invest in yourself? You do I do.
But the average people don't invest in themselves and that's
a really big concern. You need to invest in yourself.
You need those people around you, to lift you up, to show you
(41:34):
your own potential. We all see it.
Sometimes, it's hard to see it yourself, especially if you're
in the jar. You can't see the label, right?
Yeah. When you're in a bucket of mud,
you think your mud exactly. Thanks Vanessa.
Thanks so much. I am sure we will talk again, I
look forward to it. So full of wisdom, and insights,
(41:55):
and just real world help and service.
So, thanks for everyone, listening.
Thanks to be sure. And check out prior shows,
everything that Vanessa mentioned as well as her of
Prior appearance, visit Real Men, full Is it via visit real
men feel that org? See the blog post for this
episode? We'll have links to all the
various links books and resources mentioned wherever
(42:16):
you're discovering real men. Feel, Please, Subscribe.
Follow like share the summon, post a review, a comment.
Especially if you're a man, you can always reach out to me at
real men, feel at gmail.com, be good to yourself, forgive
yourself and live, your best fucking life possible.
Be well. Be well.
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