March 14, 2025 • 58 mins
Surviving Abuse: Patrick Leary's Four-Year Legal Battle and Advocacy for Male Victims
In this episode of Real Men Feel, host Andy Grant talks with Patrick Leary, a college professor, coach, and domestic violence survivor. Patrick shares his harrowing experience of enduring false charges, navigating the legal system, and rebuilding his life after years of abuse from his former partner.
Throughout the conversation, Patrick discusses the systemic challenges men face when falsely accused, the emotional and financial toll it took on his life, and his journey toward healing and helping others in similar situations.
Patrick emphasizes the importance of speaking out, seeking help, and the need for changes in the legal system to support male victims better.
00:00 Introduction to Real Men Feel
00:19 Meet Patrick Leary: A Survivor's Story
00:44 The Legal Battle Begins
01:42 Enduring Abuse and Seeking Help
05:39 The Turning Point: Protecting the Children
07:21 False Accusations and Arrests
08:15 Navigating the Legal System
12:26 The Struggle for Justice
20:53 Life Impact and Continued Legal Challenges
28:27 Life Under House Arrest
30:28 Support System and Coping Mechanisms
32:26 False Charges and Legal Battles
35:19 Final Charge and Ongoing Harassment
38:47 Reflections and Moving Forward
46:17 Advice for Male Victims of Abuse
55:58 Conclusion and Resources
Connect with Patrick Leary
LinkedIn -- https://www.linkedin.com/in/patrick-leary-ed-d-2857323/
Resources
Ann Silvers, The Abuse of Men by Women on Real Men Feel -- https://realmenfeel.org/2021/02/16/the-abuse-of-men-by-women/
The Abuse of Men by Women, Ann Silvers -- https://amzn.to/41sHYeI
Connect with Andy and the Real Men Feel Podcast:
Confused about where you are headed in life? Book a Clarity Call with Andy at https://theandygrant.com/talk
Instagram | @realmenfeelshow & @theandygrant
Personal Website | https://theandygrant.com for coaching, healing, and book info!
Podcast Website | http://realmenfeel.org for all things podcast-related!
RMF Facebook Group | http://realmenfeel.org/group
YouTube | https://youtube.com/realmenfeel
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel.
This is your host, author, coachand healer, Andy Grant.
Please visit theandygrant.com tolearn more about me.
Real Men Feel reminds men that they're human beings and have
the right to experience and express all of their emotions.
We have conversations this most men are not having, but that all
men and the women who love them can benefit from.
My guest today is Patrick Leary.Patrick is a college professor
(00:23):
and owner of Clutch Coaching LLC, a consulting company
focused on the health and Wellness of student athletes as
they make life and career transitions.
Patrick is also a domestic violence survivor who is
dedicated to serving the global community of men who have
endured physical abuse and mental anguish within a domestic
relationship. The conversation today is pretty
(00:43):
heavy. Patrick shares a four years long
experience with our court system.
Numerous faults, charges made against him, the the losing of
so many aspects of his life and livelihood.
Yet through it all, he keeps hishumanity, hope and resilience.
Patrick offers advice for men insimilar situations and changes
(01:03):
he'd like to see in a legal system to better recognize and
support male victims. Let's do it.
Welcome to Real Men Field, Patrick.
Great to be here, Andy. Thanks for having me today.
Yeah, this, this is been a long time coming.
I had Anne Silvers as a guest. She's an author writing about
the abuse of men by women. And that was four years ago.
(01:25):
And in those four years, you came into contact with her and
she recommended that you talk tome and and we did talk like 3
years ago, right? We sure did.
We sure did. And you know, I, I'm glad that
we stayed connected and really happy to be with you today to
share, share my story. So you are a domestic violence
survivor who was also falsely charged by your former partner.
(01:50):
So you had a year's long journeythrough our fabulous legal
system. And when we talked a while ago,
you this was still going on. So so now things are resolved.
Yes, for the most part, yeah. So I've, I've cleared all of
the, the false charges, you know, I've been through, you
know, hell and back, as they say.
And you know, it's been, it's been a really long four years
(02:13):
and I'm now ready to, you know, start to share and to really
help others that may be facing similar type situations.
So can you take us back to the first point in your relationship
that you realized you were in anabusive relationship?
Certainly, yeah, I've never beenaround abuse my entire life.
I I was raised by wonderful parents, came up in a wonderful
(02:35):
family, you know, and and certainly would learned how to
treat people as a result of how my parents treated others and
how I was raised. And, you know, it was about four
months into my, my relationship where I was abused, physically
assaulted by my partner at the time.
(02:56):
And it was very strange to me. It, it was very abnormal.
You know, I've, I've never, I don't resolve to abuse and I
never have. And it was very foreign to me.
And I just out of, I guess shrugged it off at the moment.
You know, keeping in mind that, you know, I, I had been friends
(03:18):
with a partner before we kind ofconsummated our relationship.
I I had known her for less than a year before the abuse began,
and once it started, that seemingly didn't end.
Were you married at the time or living together?
What was the? Situation, yeah, we were, we
were, we were engaged at the time living together.
(03:40):
He was actually pregnant at the time that the abuse began and
then it continued after he had our our child.
So it was really a very difficult situation for me and
and that's why I'm here today totry to spare my experience in
(04:01):
the event that it could help just one person that would, you
know, was would be in a like situation.
What made you stay in this relationship since the the if it
was not a one time event the theabuse happened on a recurring
basis at least late and so why make yourself stay there for
that? Yeah, that's a great question.
(04:23):
I, which I ask myself frequently.
I, I journal a lot. And you know, before today's
meeting with you, I, I, I went back to my notes and, and I
asked myself that question a lot.
I think it's because I believe in people and I've never been
around abuse, so I didn't know how to respond to it in the
moment. So instead of asking for help
for myself, I tried to find helpfor her.
(04:46):
And I reached out to, you know, I chronicled every moment of the
abuse, every, every incident. I wrote a long letter to her at
first that I in fact was in an abusive relationship to which
she agreed. And I shared, I shared the, I
shared that with her, her, her family, because I thought that
(05:09):
it would be appropriate for themto understand that I, I, I
needed some help to be able to help her.
So that's a great question. And, and, and again, to this
day, it, it's something that I want to be able to share my
story to help others because, you know, hindsight, as you
know, is 2020 and I would have handled it differently.
(05:31):
But at that time I thought the right thing to do was to try to
help instead of help her insteadof try to help myself.
At what point did you did this become so much that you decided
that enough was enough and you and you did end this
relationship? It's when she brought it in to
the children and she she hurt mychild, she hurt my son.
(05:55):
And that's when my legal troubles began because I had I
called 911 immediately. She, you know, I previously
mentioned to her we were in counseling at the time he had,
he finally was seeking counseling for her issues.
And you know, I said, if you bring the abuse, I said I can
(06:18):
handle it as an adult. But if I ever see this, and
I'll, I'll work with you to seekthe help that you need.
But if you ever bring this into our, our family, down to our
children, it, it's, we can't, wecan't exist.
We can't exist as as a unit and and that in fact happened where
she the physically assaulted my child and I in turn called 911
(06:42):
as a result of that. What was your thought process
when you were calling 911? What?
What did you expect to happen? That they would, I would, I
would get some help. I would get some relief of the
situation that I was in. It was a untenable situation.
I was, I was holding a, you know, a, a six month old baby in
one arm and consoling my, my 8 year old child in the other that
(07:06):
was hysterically crying trying to escape from this individual.
So I was in a very untenable. I, I, I had, I needed help.
That would That's when I knew I needed help and I thought I was
going to receive help. And what did happen when the
police arrived? I was arrested.
(07:26):
Did your did your partner make charges against you at that time
or was this just automatic behavior by the police or?
No, she, she actually be injuredherself while the police were in
route and she admitted, she admitted as much she be self
injured. She she was smart enough to know
that someone was going to be taken away and she didn't want
(07:49):
it to be her. So you know, it's the first, the
first person that the police sawwas her.
They saw that she was visibly upset and sustained an injury,
that she armed herself and I wasupstairs with the children
trying to protect them from her at the time.
And they barrel down the door and took the kids away and next
(08:12):
thing I was gone. I was in.
I was arrested. How long was the the legal
battle from from being arrested that night to to be to
resolution in court? Here's the perplexing elements
to this whole, you know to this whole story is that following
that incident, the the pardon was very remorseful, understood
(08:35):
that she did the wrong thing by me, understood that he abused
the legal system. And you know, someone that is a
college professor that has nevercommitted any crime ever before
had a serious charge against him.
And I, Andy, to be honest with you, I, I had no idea how I've
(08:56):
never been in court. I, I, I, I, you know, I appeared
the next day and I didn't realize how serious the charges
were, you know, because I, I hadn't committed a crime.
And So what ended up happening was, you know, she realized she
wanted to, she wanted to stay inthe relationship.
And we did, you know, we had, I had a 8 year olds home with like
(09:20):
my ex-wife and the six month oldat the time with her.
And I'm very family oriented. So I, I, I really wanted to make
sure I, I tried to take all the right steps to see this through
again, you know, knowing that that was a very traumatic
experience for me. I knew at that time that I was
(09:42):
going to leave her. I knew immediately that this was
the time, but I had a serious charge levied against me.
So I was trying to, I was in a very difficult situation with
really no resources to support me other than my family and my
friend. And it's quite humiliating, as
you can imagine, you know, having this charge against you.
(10:04):
That is when you're, you're an educator, you know, you're,
it's, it's, it was a, a very difficult situation for me.
So what I ended up doing was I Istayed in the relationship with
her, but I ended up putting my Hondo up for sale.
I knew that I couldn't be aroundher anymore.
(10:24):
And in fact, after that night I wouldn't allow or my ex-wife
wouldn't allow my child, my son to be around this this
individual that had assaulted an8 year old child.
So he wasn't allowed to see her anymore.
I moved back in with my parents,with my son, and I kept the
condo. I put it up for sale, and that
(10:46):
was a way for me to kind of break it off with her.
I wasn't sure what the outcome would be, but that was what I
thought would be the best way toseparate myself from from her
and from the continued abuse. It was just a very toxic
situation. So you're kind of being an an
actor in this time. Let letting her think you want
(11:08):
to continue the relationship while you're severing ties.
Yeah, it was, it was very stressful because obviously I, I
cared for her as a person and I,I had this charge against me.
And it was, it was up to her to essentially relieve me of the
charge. And, and she, she, my lawyer at
(11:30):
the time, actually consulted me to, to be be very nice to her
because the fate of my, of my charge rested in her hands are
eventually, you know, I, I really as educated as I believe
I am, I, I really don't, wasn't as familiarized with the
criminal justice system. And, you know, she, she signed a
(11:53):
victim impact statement saying that I didn't do it, that it
was, I never had laid a hand on her.
But at the same time, she, she, she sensed that I was trying to
remove myself from the relationship.
And, you know, she ended up moving back with her parents and
I ended up moving back with my parents temporarily.
(12:15):
But we were still trying to finda way to maintain a relationship
through, you know, through that following that that initial
incident. What was the actual charge
against you at that time? Domestic violence against a
partner. Assault, assault and battery
against a domestic partner. And when she did the victim
(12:39):
statement saying nothing had happened, did she have the
ability the the power to stop the charge or was that already?
She she, she, she did, however, she didn't show up in court that
that that morning. She simply just filled out the,
the victim impact statement and then there was going to be
another court date set, which there was.
(13:00):
But this is just the beginning of the story.
The hope, you know, there was other episodes that have the
transpired following that initial incident to that, that
court date in which if we were, you know, amicable and we were
symmetrical and in so far as ourour futures together, it it
(13:24):
wouldn't have been, it would have been, it would have been
resolved, but it it never got tothat point.
We just, I wasn't willing to to work with her to to maintain our
relationship. She is saying she wants to
continue relationship. You are clear and know that you
don't want one, and for a while you're at least trying to play
nice to have the illusion that maybe there is something there.
(13:47):
So, So what? What happened?
What? What were the other
circumstances? So it was, it was, it was a
living. It was, it was purgatory on
Earth. It was I.
She was very much trying to get us to maintain a family.
She was trying to get my son to open back up to her, even though
he was scared of her. And you know, I, I had made that
(14:09):
executive decision Andy, that I knew I couldn't be around abuse
anymore. It had just hit, you know, it,
it had bottomed out. It had just, I, I can't have, I
couldn't have my building aroundthat.
So I ended up putting my condo up for sale.
And you know, it went, it went very quickly.
(14:31):
Intermittently, I would meet my partner there with the baby so I
could, I could see the baby and that's some time with, with the
baby. And she really used that as a
leverage point to have time withme.
Really, it wasn't, it wasn't about her.
It was just about seeing my children.
And there was an episode, a second episode where she knew
(14:54):
that I, I had essentially established the case against her
because I, I, you know, for custody's sake, I chronicled all
of our history of abuse. DCF became involved after that
initial incident, Andy, because there were two children present
(15:15):
in the house when there's a domestic violence episode and
that automatically triggers a DCF investigation.
So with that, you know, that unto itself was just from from
me who prides myself on the voting and being a dedicated
dad. That was just so foreign to me.
But I obviously I was compliant and and did everything I needed
(15:37):
to do. But you know, I was chronicling
everything that had happened to me in my phone.
There were there were audio recordings, there were photos of
the abuse. She had snatched my computer
with a hammer, she had broken myglasses, she had ruined things
in in the condo, she had snatched walls, ripped doors off
(16:00):
their hinges, and I had all of that information on my phone.
In essence destroyed my phone. He also realized that I had
contacted an ex-boyfriend of hers who she communicated to me
that she had a physical abusive relationship with.
Though I did reach out to him and he was very receptive to me
(16:22):
reaching out. And he did mention, I mean, they
were young, they were in college, but he admitted that he
had issues, especially when she was drinking, which he would
punch him. What ended up happening was he,
he contacted her following my, my contact with him.
We were cleaning out. I had, I had literally the, the
(16:44):
condo had sold. I was, you know, signing the
purchase and fail at like the ITwas, it was ready to go.
She just had to clean up. I, I left some stuff for her to
pick up at the condo and I agreed to to meet her there to
do that. And what ended up happening was
that was the another fatal mistake that I made to trust
(17:05):
myself alone with her. At that point she confronted me
on reaching out to the ex-boyfriend because he he he he
actually reached out to her and saying congratulations on your
child there. I wish you the breath in your
life ahead that she started to realize that I was building a
case against her and she thoughtthat the children, our daughter
(17:28):
would be taken from her. Though he we had me arrested
again that day. What ended up happening was she
cornered me. He knew I would never lay my
hands on her. And all the all the times, all
the horrible nightmares living, living those back, I would never
(17:51):
lay my hands on her. And she knew that.
And she would always block the door for me to be able to exit
because she would have put her body in front of the door and
not let me leave. And I was, she had my phone, so
I had no, I, it was no way I could call anyone.
And so she ended up, I ended up trying to escape from her.
(18:13):
So I, I, I just ran into the bathroom.
I closed the door, she tried to pick it down and she, she, after
a few minutes be stopped and shesaid, OK, I'm, I'm just going to
cool off. What we need to cool off and
we're just going to go get us coffees at the Starbucks.
And, and I breathed a sigh of relief.
(18:34):
I'm like, thank the Lord, I, I can finally go.
I can finally leave. I ended up leaving.
I was moving things back to my tires house.
I was in there and I had to get everything out of the condo
because the the new resident wascoming in literally the
following week. So everything has to be out.
There was a walk through schedule.
So that was an important date toget everything out.
(18:57):
And I come back from dropping things off in my tires and
there's five police cars waitingfor me at my condo.
And I asked what was going on. And then they started AU so and
so and I said yes. And they're like, you're under
arrest for domestic violence. They didn't tell me what I did
(19:20):
or anything like that. They just literally put me in
the car and I was taken again. And they I, I, it didn't
surprise me, Andy it it, it, it didn't surprise me.
It was, it was her attempt at a desperate like some sort of
(19:43):
redemption against me that some sort of revenge and did it
against the she was self abusive.
She admitted this he hurt her, felt she actually admitted this
to our therapist that we createdself harm.
And she, that was her, that was her weapon against me.
So the first time you were arrested, were you just released
(20:07):
the next day? Yes, I had no record, Yeah.
Right. So you arrested again, is it the
same experience you arrested a second time?
Is it they just take you in, book you and let you go?
It's a little bit more serious because keeping in mind it was,
it was about two months between the 1st and 2nd Instagram, they
let's just say the bail was significantly higher and it was
(20:31):
far more serious because this time around he wasn't on my
side. The second time around, he
wanted me to go away. He realized that the
relationship was over and he hadstated that if we weren't
together, he was going to ruin my life and do it well in our
way of doing that. Yeah.
(20:53):
How was the rest of your life impacted this point?
Was this in the news that local paper?
Does it affect you at work? Oh sure.
I did though. I, so coming out of that, that
second quarter appearance, I, I had AGPS bracelet where I was
allowed to go to work and you know, I was, it was essentially
(21:19):
AGPS bracelet just wasn't allowed to go where she lives,
where she resides, which I, I was perfectly OK with.
Obviously it's very humiliating to have AGPS bracelet when
you're out college professor andyou have to try to explain that
to an 8 year old, your 8 year old child.
I, I, I was, I managed it. I knew I'd done nothing wrong.
(21:42):
Maybe I was naive to the system and looking back, of course I
was. But I had two charges against me
at this time. I had an ankle, the GPS bracelet
and a restraining order against me that was issued the second
time. So the first time the, you know,
she signed a victim impact statement.
(22:02):
He knew that she was in error. And if we wanted to try to
maintain a relationship, you know, and, and win me back, so
to speak. This time around, she knew that
I was building a case against her.
And then I, I was, I had closed the door in our relationship.
There was no, I was just vengeance.
It wasn't, it wasn't trying to be amicable at all.
(22:23):
So with that came, you know, herin the court, try to get my bail
revoked, try to send me to prison that second time that
failed, but they did put the GPSpriestly on me.
But she got, she got her with about a month later, she got her
with. Well, since I had a restraining
(22:43):
order, obviously there's a no contact order as a result of
that and I had no reason to contact her.
I in fact, I, I had wish she haddisappeared from my life well in
advance of this. You know, the unfortunate
reality is that that child's thereal victim and all of this.
But you know, it was, it was a it was like, remember it clear
(23:06):
as day. It was, it was right.
The Thursday night going into a Friday morning and the, the
police show up at my door and communicate that there was
contact between me and her, thatI initiated some contact.
And like I they, so they, they, they took me.
(23:31):
They took me and I spent 72 daysin prison. 72 days.
Wow. The the story continues.
But I, I had no, I didn't, I didn't, I did not do that.
I, she literally provided 0 evidence to the police.
(23:56):
But you know, because I had those two charges against me,
your, I think you're viewed through the eyes of, you know,
law enforcement as a criminal, as a, as a thug, as someone that
is a woman abused as women. And that was none of those
things. But at the end of the day, I was
the one who was taken away. I spent 72 days in prison.
(24:17):
I obviously lost my job. I, I received my resignation
letter from my university in themail at the jail that insulted
injury. It was, it was I, it was, it was
still real. I, I had, that was still real.
That's the only way to explain that as someone that the only
(24:40):
time I've ever stepped foot in the jail was, you know, for a
sociology class and in high school to do an observation.
What was the most shocking part of this?
Is it the the actions of your abuser or was it more the
actions of the legal system? Yeah, I think that's a great
question. I think that she was allowed to
use the law, the legal system against me.
(25:02):
She was usually, she was able toget gain her vengeance against
me by abusing the system and it was allowed.
There was literally no evidence that I had ever done any of the
things that I was accused of doing. 0 And here I am at that
(25:24):
point having three charges against me who do my thickest
assault and batteries and a violation of a restraining
order, none of which I had committed.
And here, here I was, you know, I'm spreading, you know, two 2
1/2 months in prison. How did you maintain or did you
(25:47):
maintain any sense of hope during that time?
Yeah, it was difficult. It was I, it was surreal.
So I just embraced it at that moment.
It was, it was almost like like a phenomenological study where I
just, I kind of became where I, I was, became part of the
environment. And I think that that helped me
(26:09):
accept it at that time as as difficult as it was.
And, you know, I actually made alot of friends there.
I, you know, they a lot of advocates, you know, when, when
I was able to scare what had happened to me and why I was
there and you know, they, they called me the professor.
(26:30):
They gave me like I had some St.cred there, you know, so it was
I, I just, I had to make the best of it.
And I the only thing that reallykept me going were, you know,
the notes from like my now partner and my son and my
family. That that that's what kept me
motivating, motivated and as foreign as the place that that
(26:53):
was to me. You know, my friends to this day
still can't believe that I was there based on who I am.
And but at the same it happened.It happened as a result of this
current system and the way that it can be manipulated.
(27:15):
So you're in prison, 3 charges against you.
I know you end up with more charges against you.
So so how? How do those unfold?
Yeah, so while I was in prison, I got slapped with another
charge. I had a, a Courier show up with
a, a letter saying that I've hadan intimidation of a witness
(27:40):
charge against me that I tried to intimidate the part, her
alleged witness trying to coerceher.
I guess allegedly it was for thevictim impact statement that I
coerced her into signing that and the police were I guess
(28:01):
believed her. I, I don't know how that works
and I, I don't know how that that's a very serious charge
actually. So without any evidence, I don't
know how they, they were able tojust slap that charge on me.
So while I was just sitting there in, in the penitentiary, I
got slapped at the 4th charge. So might as well add another one
(28:23):
to the plate. I finally got out.
I finally got out house arrest, no job and leave and leave the
house. Have, you know, an 8 year old
child, right Co parent, have, you know, split custody with,
(28:44):
you know, I, it was a year, a year of a year of house arrest.
So 72 days in prison followed bya year of house arrest wearing
an ankle monitor. You know, yes, you're allowed to
leave if you get a job, but I, Ihad four charges against me.
How can I get a job and additionto that, I I had there were
(29:09):
there were some, you know, there's some flexibility with
being able to when you're a parent to be able to drop off or
pick up your child to school, which of course I wanted to do.
However, the the ex partner whenI when I I had I literally had a
(29:29):
a meeting with the court in my the virtual meeting with a judge
in my attorney. She blocked me from being able
to drop off and pick up my son from school and saying that our
daughter had a pediatric dentistwithin 500 yards of the school
and I would know exactly when she would be there.
(29:52):
And she was scared and threatened by me.
So the judge granted didn't grant me the ability to pick up
my child. So I was literally housebound.
I couldn't leave. It was that that was more
painful than actually the 72 days in prison, not being able
to provide for your child. Like, you know, I, I'm a, I'm an
(30:14):
active person. I'm a marathoner.
I, I, you know, I run like 50 to60 miles a week.
I have an ankle monitor on, you know, I, I can't work on it was,
it was very, it was a very trying time.
Did you have any advocates, people you could, you know, lean
on during this time? Because I I can't imagine the
(30:36):
frustration of knowing you've done anything wrong, but the
entire system says otherwise. Correct.
Yeah, I mean, my, my, my best friend's a a like a, a Boston
police Lieutenant. And he he, he couldn't he
couldn't even believe it. But the end of the day, yes, I,
I, I was blessed to have a very strong support with, with my, my
(31:01):
family, my parents especially, and my partner, Lauren and my
son, you know, kept me going on.They kept me, my spirits up.
It it was, you know, in those, in those instances, you, you
always need rituals. You need thing, you need to be
around family. You need some sort of, you know,
(31:22):
because it can go the other way real quick, I'm sure, But, you
know, just trying to be resilient.
You know, I, as someone that reads a lot, I write a lot.
I, I, and started journaling, kind of capturing what am I
feeling, what I'm experiencing. I, I started my own company at
that point, you know, with kind of thinking forward Andy,
(31:46):
thinking that at some point I, I, I really need to be able to,
to help others because this is honestly such a trying time.
And I, and it was just unfathomable based on the fact
that I committed no crime and some individual that just was
vengeful that I didn't want to be with her, was able to use the
(32:07):
system to penalize me in such a way that it crippled me, you
know, financially. I, I lose my job, I, I can't
work, I, I can't be a dad, I can't coach, I can't, I can't be
social. I everything, you know, every
element, every bucket of life other than like family was taken
away. But you know, interestingly, it
(32:30):
was while I was on house arrest that I got my 5th charge.
So I didn't even have to leave the house for this one.
And you know that police show upagain in the middle of the
night. It was, you know, ironically, a
Friday night. And this individual understands
that if you're detained on a on a Friday night, you're sitting
(32:52):
in, in detention in a prison in a cow until Monday morning when
the courts open. So again, strategically planned
this, this individual set up a, a false snapshot account and
indicated that I had communicated to her via Snapchat
(33:16):
instead of, of distorted image of my, my child to her.
And that's allegedly what she showed the police.
And they took that as evidence enough that I should be detained
and slapped with a charge, whichwas the second violation of her
restraining order. So that was the 5th and final
charge. And I spent three nights, three
(33:40):
nights. Fortunately, my attorney is very
good and is a friend to this daybecause I've spent so much time
with him. But he said there's no way that
this happened. We got a tech expert involved
there. There was just, there was just
no way. There was literally no way that
it came from my phone. I mean, none of these things
came from my phone. It was scanned by a, you know,
(34:01):
FBI, former FBI agent that has specialized in the logistics and
information systems. And they scan my phone.
None of it on my phone. So you got 5 charges against you
and you're really it it it feelslike you're up against a
criminal mastermind who knows the system knows how to use it
strategically to inflict the most pain onto you.
(34:25):
How is there finally resolution and and clearing of charges when
it is just a a a she said he said situation?
Yeah, it was a it was a gradual process, you know, and you know
the whole saying with the wheelsof justice, while they do turn
very slow, that's for sure. So the, the D as office
(34:47):
dismissed those, those two alleged restraining order
violations. There was no evidence, she
couldn't produce any evidence. So they they just dismissed
those. And then I had to go through
trial on the other guardian site1 by 1 and the jury found me not
guilty on all. I think I'm a pretty credible
(35:09):
person because I've never committed a crime and ultimately
I was cleared of all, all charges.
It it took a long time. The the irony between behind the
last charge, which was very recent, is that I left court
that day and the criminal mastermind stalked me and
(35:33):
literally knows where I live, knows what kind of car I drive.
I know that she's been having mefollowed because it's been, it's
been mentioned in probate court because I'm trying to gain
custody of some custody of my daughter.
And it's been communicated that she's been having these
(35:54):
followed. So she knows where I live.
She knows pretty much some information about me that I
don't know about her because I really don't care.
I just want to eradicate her formy life.
But that particular day, it was very recent.
He he called the police and saidthat I had violated the
(36:16):
restraining order that I was So that one, one nugget of
information that I should communicate is that I do have
currently a civil ending matter,which is the final restraining
order that hasn't It was extended last May and it expires
after a year. So that hasn't been, even though
(36:36):
all criminal matters have been have been absolved that that's
still the one tending charge. So he ended up calling the
police and saying that I was following her and he was, he has
no reason to be in the town where I live.
Literally the court is 5 minutesfrom courthouse, is 5 minutes
(36:59):
from where Ira died. And he was sitting out waiting
for me to to get home. And she called the police and
said that I was I was following her, that I was stalking her and
they came to the door. My poor son was here, he was
very concerned and scared because he's been around when
the police have come and taken me, you know, and that that will
(37:22):
never leave me that, you know, he's a wonderful young boy and
he you know, he's very Brazilian.
We have a great relationship, but just the fact that something
so serious like a, a charge likethat and just be taken.
So again, it's the criminal mastermind.
But fortunately I got my lawyer on the phone.
(37:44):
He explained that I, I left the court with him.
We drove around and we were going to go celebrate.
That was the 5th and final charge.
That was that. That's 4 long years of my life
that have been in and out of thecourts, in and out of the
system. And it's been, it's been really
a long battle and it was time tocelebrate.
(38:05):
Instead, I was again in fear that I was going to be taken
again, lose my job. It was, it was just, it was, I
almost had a panic attack. Unfortunately, the police did
the right thing at that time. They listened to me, they
listened to my lawyer and they realized that it was not a
credible story. I wish they had done that, that,
(38:27):
that diligence the previous times, but fortunately, you know
that. Yeah.
But that just speaks to the character of this individual.
It's it, it's just, it's still ongoing.
And it I, I don't understand. I don't, I don't understand it,
quite frankly. I.
(38:47):
I believe if I was in a similar situation I would really be
interested in revenge getting back.
Did you consider charges againsther or civil suits or anything
like that? Or is that just beyond your
personality? That's a great question.
And don't think that I don't spend a lot of my time thinking
(39:09):
about that. You know, I, I, I do believe
that life has a way of, of working itself out.
You know, I think for me, the best form of revenge I can have
is just like being successful and by sharing my story, by
being able to help others that may be impacted.
(39:30):
You know, obviously this is a hard story to duplicate, but I
know that there's others out there that are, are, are faced
with situations with their falsely accused of things and it
can be debilitating to your life.
And that's why I, I really want to dedicate, you know, I, I, I'm
an educator and coach at heart. It's something that I love to
do. I've been doing it, you know,
(39:51):
essentially my entire career. And you know, I want I want to
be able to continue to do that. And I think that will give me
personal stylist. I think that will give me, you
know, the ability to look look back on all of all of this that
I've been to already. And my family and the closest to
(40:11):
me, they've been a part of this as well.
And that's not lost on me, but you know, I think being able to
really communicate. The story share my story the
messaging and the being able to help others is is the best way
to to have revenge. With the gift of hindsight, is
(40:36):
there something you wish you knew back at the start?
Is there 1 action that really would have made something
different for you? Yeah, it's the first signs of
abuse. Obviously abuse looks comes in
many forms and looks a little bit differently depending on the
circumstance. But the the physical abuse, once
(40:57):
it starts, it continues. And in hindsight, that's, that's
where, especially when you have children in the household,
especially that's, that's where I, I, I wish I had just realized
that I couldn't help this person, the only person that
(41:19):
could help her with herself and she's chose not to do that.
What was the biggest challenge in not just rebuilding your
life, rebuilding your sense of self and you know, being able to
trust another person the rest ofyour life.
What? What's the biggest challenge in
that? It's been huge.
You know, like I said, fortunately I have amazing
(41:40):
people around me. That amazing family, they keep
me going, amazing friends and they know me to the core and
have kept me. But it, it's tough.
I mean, I've been crippled in somany ways.
You know, I fortunately my career path is, is back on
(42:01):
track, but it was sidetracked for many years and and that's
something that that's my livelihood.
I worked very hard to attain a certain place.
And when that's taken from you, it it's it's hard to, it's hard
to, it's hard, it's hard to digest.
You know the ability when you have criminal charges, you can't
do things like code things that I love to do.
(42:23):
And that was that was really trying for me.
Yell my child saying dare I? Can you coach?
Can you coach? Can you coach up my team here?
It's, it's humiliating, it's public humiliation.
Unfortunately, a lot, not many people know what have happened
to me and my like outside of my close circles.
(42:44):
So I have not been liberal with sharing my story, but I do think
that my confidence, it was, was really destroyed for quite a
long time in my belief and in the system.
You know, when I've, I've alwaystried to be someone that has
done things the right way, treated people with kindness and
respect, and I'll continue to live that way.
(43:07):
I never, I never stopped being that person.
But at the same time, it's question that, you know, that
whole adage of, you know, bad things can happen to good
people. It, it, it's, you know, I feel
blessed like there's, there's people in lights that have worse
off situations with terminal illnesses and I feel blessed for
what I have. But at the same time, it's been
(43:29):
the, the journey's been very trying.
I, I feel sick every time I think about a courtroom.
It's just, it's just so foreign for me.
It's not. And I think it's given me some
it, it's definitely made me a smarter person.
But at the same time, it, it wasa very challenging journey.
(43:54):
And you, you feel alone a lot inthat journey.
You feel helpless because it's, it's, it's a criminal justice
system. And with that there's, there's
records, there is public, publicrecords.
And it's just very humiliating. I think that personal
humiliation is not how the character of who I am and I want
(44:17):
to be represented to the general.
Public I I meet many men that have experiences, you know, just
a, a piece of this, a one false charge against them or A1 bad
experience in court and it makesthem so jaded and bitter and
really decide that all women areevil and just just they just
stay full of hate. You are not you do not come
(44:40):
across that way at all. So what has helped you the most
in regaining your confidence in in letting you be who you always
were? You know, I, I, not to go all
spiritual here, but I do think, you know, believing in a higher
order, I think believing that the path will be at the right
(45:01):
path. Ultimately, it's just part of
the journey. And you know, I, my, my parents
are, are, you know, religious people.
I mean, they, they, they believein their messaging has always
been, you know, things will workthemselves out.
This is a this, this is part of what was supposed to happen to
you. Whether you can make sense of it
(45:23):
now at the time or not, it'll make sense at some point.
And I've, you know, I've embraced that notion, Andy,
because I, I don't want to be known as a bitter person.
I don't want to be known as someone that heals theater that
I feel life too short to live life that way.
I do think that, you know, I want to be able to promote this
(45:48):
what is personal, my personal voyage like, like to be able to
maybe fix some things that are wrong and or help people that
are need help. So, you know, instead of being
saying I'm a victim and I'm victimized by all this, I'd
rather, I'd rather change that narrative and they this is
(46:11):
something that happened and I want to, it's not right and I
want to change it. From talking earlier, I know
that a men's group helped you. Can you like, how beneficial,
how supportive was that men's group for you?
Very, I, I thought it was, you know, because the, again, a lot
of the statistics say that, you know, most incidents of domestic
(46:35):
violence are, are, are men against women, which is
factually accurate. But you know, Anne Silver's, our
friend Anne has dedicated a lot of her, her work to highlighting
that it, it goes both ways. It's not just abuse of men
against women. And, and of course the Me Too
(46:55):
movement didn't kind of help that.
But at the same time, there, there's plenty of incident
incidents where females abuse men, but law enforcement doesn't
believe that. And so I, you know, I think that
there's, it's a flawed system. I think training, you know,
(47:17):
maybe law enforcement training could be feeling how to handle
certain situations instead of just, you know, I've met with
law enforcement, the I've met with a lot of them and, and
they've, they, they acknowledge that it, it's not, it's a flawed
system. It's, you know, say it's, if we
show up and this is this, then we have to do this.
(47:39):
And I, I, I understand it's a, there's a larger, you know,
global conversation on that, butit, it's just the, the men's
group helps you, you talk about these situations and realize
that you're not alone, that there are other individuals out
(48:02):
there that it's, it's not just men versus women or women versus
men. It's just, it's just domestic
violence in general. And that how can we stop that?
So the group I was was with was part of a coalition against
domestic violence and finding initiatives and ways to, you
know, engage and talk about things like talk, talk
(48:23):
masculinity and things of that sort.
Kind of dissolving some of the notions that, you know, men.
Men are always the perpetrators of these, you know, incidents.
But it's just simply not the case though, right?
Yeah, unfortunately people abusepeople.
Any type of person, the gender, age, it doesn't really matter.
(48:48):
But yeah, you know, I don't knowif it's society, popular culture
slanted that it's always just One Direction.
Absolutely. To follow that, like, what do
you think the stigma around men being victims of physical abuse,
what what do you think that's rooted in?
That's a great question. I don't know if I can give a
profound answer. You know, I, I think that a lot
(49:11):
of men don't want to admit that they've been a victim of
domestic abuse. That, that that's first and
foremost, I just, I've never been around abuse.
I've never been around physical violence, though.
It was just so foreign to me that, you know, you asked about
the hindsight question. I, I naturally, I wanted to help
(49:32):
someone versus run from them. And that's the message in that I
would employ, you know, moving forward to anyone that I would
talk to you. You don't, you can't, like they
say, don't stick around, right? If it happens once, it's going
to happen again. And, and I now I know, I know, I
(49:52):
know it's not just rhetoric, it's, you know, it, it's so
it's, it's something that is a serious issue that, you know, it
happens in a household. It doesn't happen out in public
for the most part. I mean, so it's very private.
And, you know, from in my instance, you know, it's, you
(50:13):
know, I was, I was the one that was the victim, but yet he
procreate herself as the as the victim, you know, and, and every
opportunity and, and everyone believed her that that's that's
where I I find fault and flaw in, in our system, in our
current system, when all I was trying to do Andy was protect my
(50:36):
child. And that set up a stereo to the
event that really ruined my life, quite frankly, and really
put my life on hold and had to rebuild in every possible way
for, you know, still working through it.
So. Patrick, you did mention, you
know, just feeling that cringe in your in your guts think about
(50:57):
a courtroom or anything like that.
Do you still have fear and anxiety related to your ex?
Absolutely. Yeah.
It's it it, it's like a paranoia.
How do you how do you deal with that and how do you keep that
from spreading to all potential partners?
(51:18):
It's, it's certainly not easy, you know, because it's everyone
in my household now is, is awareof this individual and is aware
of what she's capable of in a sense.
And I, I don't, you know, I, I don't know how it, how it ends.
(51:38):
I, I don't, I don't know how it ends.
I, I simply don't. But I can't worry about all I
can do is worry about how I control myself, how I treat
others and how I move forward. But I do think that, you know,
I've thought about moving. We're going out of state.
Honestly, I don't want her to know any anything about me.
I don't want to get her to know where I work, where I live.
(52:01):
She knows all those things. And because she hasn't followed
still to this day, and I have no, I have no idea what her
motives are. I really don't.
She's already taken so much for me.
So I I don't know where where her end game is or what her end
game is. Is there anything top of mind
ways that you wish society in the legal system could better
(52:23):
support male victims? Yeah, I do.
You know, I wished again, I wished I had a more profound
answer, but I I just think that the way that things compounded
so quickly without any sort of like conversation, you know, our
understanding from where my my vantage point, it was just this
happened. OK, We believe it, this
(52:45):
happened. OK, we believe it that and there
was literally 0 evidence the thethe police cannot provide.
They provided 0 evidence. And in fact, when even in one of
the the cases where the police testified in court, an officer
he he he fumble around, he had no idea.
Like he, he realized it was probably an error.
(53:07):
Like, you know, based on the, the questioning from from my
attorney at the time, there was literally no, no tact to see
anything. There was, there was 0
repercussions. It was just book, yeah, well,
book them. So I think, I, I do think that
needs to be far more education and how charges can destroy
(53:29):
someone's life. Something so serious that isn't
even really investigated. There's there's no evidence.
It's just Yep, OK, sure. But let's the the courts handle
it. And that's pretty much what
happened. It's like, OK, well, we just did
our job, but now let's pass it along, pass the buck along to
the courts and see what they do.And, and I just think that
(53:51):
that's extremely careless and reckless.
And I think it's blot in in manyways.
Do you have any advice besides don't stick around to a man, any
other man that finds himself in in an abusive relationship?
I do, you know, I think that oneof the one of the outcomes of
this in which this individual told me that he, she had
(54:14):
targeted me. We were friends prior to being
in a, in a, in a relationship. It was just an acquaintance, but
she knew he saw how I treated others.
She saw how I was a dad to my son, how kind I was.
And he he admitted that she targeted me, that he said, you
(54:37):
know, I, I, I baby trapped you. He said, I, this is one thing
that I didn't explore with you in our conversation.
But she mentioned that when we first were in a relationship,
you know, when we evolved from friends into, you know, a
relationship, that she wanted tohave a baby with me, that she
didn't care if we were ever married, but she wanted someone
(54:59):
with my looks and my smarts in the way that I was.
So she, she was so from the get go, she lied.
And so I think that people are targets.
They may not know it or not, butif you are successful, if you
are, you know, I, I specificallythink of young men who, you
(55:19):
know, I work a lot in the, the sports base and I think about,
you know, college athletes and now that they're millionaires,
then, you know, with NIL deals. I, I, I really, a lot of my work
is going to be focused on, you know, alerts like alerting
yourself. You're a target.
You're a target for a lot of things.
And you see a lot in today's sports media about allegations
(55:45):
against professional athletes because they're targets.
So I think if you're a lawyer, if you're a successful person,
you know, you could be a target and you may not know it.
Patrick, I I wanna thank and commend you.
I know this has been a long trying journey and your courage
(56:09):
and bravery and vulnerability and speaking openly about it in
the hopes that someone else doesn't have to go through what
you've gone through. And that the legal system, how
police investigate things or or don't you know, just
automatically leaving one personin a split second, helping to
bring some light to all those issues and bring change.
(56:29):
What's the best way for people to connect with you or learn
more about your coaching or or what have you?
Yeah, I, that's a great question.
Thank you, Andy. I mean, connecting via LinkedIn,
I think would, is, would be amazing.
I can share that with you. But you know, I do think that
that's the best way that to communicate.
And in fact, I, you know, I, I, I want to continue this work and
(56:51):
I want to continue this messaging and, and being
proactive and in this community to help, to help men to help the
global community at large that want to discuss this, want to
have some good dialogue about what's going on.
Awesome. Again, thanks Patrick for
joining us today. Thanks everyone for listening to
(57:12):
us. Please visit realmanfield.org.
We'll have a blog post for this episode.
We'll have links to various resources, books, support
mentioned. Wherever you're discovering Real
Man Field, please subscribe, follow, like, share this with
somebody, post, review or comment.
And indeed, this is an importantepisode to share with someone
that you think might possibly bein a similar situation like
this, having gone through it or being in the middle of it.
(57:34):
And if you need more support around this, I invite you to
book some time with me, visit theandygrant.com/talk, have a
free clarity call with me, and we'll see if there's anything I
can offer you other pointers beyond if if something in this
conversation wasn't enough to get you to the help you need and
deserve, I'm glad to talk to you.
And until next time, be good to yourself.
Hello and welcome to Real Men Feel.
This is your host, author, coachand healer, Andy Grant.
Please visit theandygrant.com tolearn more about me.
Real Men Feel reminds men that they're human beings and have
the right to experience and express all of their emotions.
We have conversations this most men are not having, but that all
men and the women who love them can benefit from.
My guest today is Patrick Leary.Patrick is a college professor
(00:23):
and owner of Clutch Coaching LLC, a consulting company
focused on the health and Wellness of student athletes as
they make life and career transitions.
Patrick is also a domestic violence survivor who is
dedicated to serving the global community of men who have
endured physical abuse and mental anguish within a domestic
relationship. The conversation today is pretty
(00:43):
heavy. Patrick shares a four years long
experience with our court system.
Numerous faults, charges made against him, the the losing of
so many aspects of his life and livelihood.
Yet through it all, he keeps hishumanity, hope and resilience.
Patrick offers advice for men insimilar situations and changes
(01:03):
he'd like to see in a legal system to better recognize and
support male victims. Let's do it.
Welcome to Real Men Field, Patrick.
Great to be here, Andy. Thanks for having me today.
Yeah, this, this is been a long time coming.
I had Anne Silvers as a guest. She's an author writing about
the abuse of men by women. And that was four years ago.
(01:25):
And in those four years, you came into contact with her and
she recommended that you talk tome and and we did talk like 3
years ago, right? We sure did.
We sure did. And you know, I, I'm glad that
we stayed connected and really happy to be with you today to
share, share my story. So you are a domestic violence
survivor who was also falsely charged by your former partner.
(01:50):
So you had a year's long journeythrough our fabulous legal
system. And when we talked a while ago,
you this was still going on. So so now things are resolved.
Yes, for the most part, yeah. So I've, I've cleared all of
the, the false charges, you know, I've been through, you
know, hell and back, as they say.
And you know, it's been, it's been a really long four years
(02:13):
and I'm now ready to, you know, start to share and to really
help others that may be facing similar type situations.
So can you take us back to the first point in your relationship
that you realized you were in anabusive relationship?
Certainly, yeah, I've never beenaround abuse my entire life.
I I was raised by wonderful parents, came up in a wonderful
(02:35):
family, you know, and and certainly would learned how to
treat people as a result of how my parents treated others and
how I was raised. And, you know, it was about four
months into my, my relationship where I was abused, physically
assaulted by my partner at the time.
(02:56):
And it was very strange to me. It, it was very abnormal.
You know, I've, I've never, I don't resolve to abuse and I
never have. And it was very foreign to me.
And I just out of, I guess shrugged it off at the moment.
You know, keeping in mind that, you know, I, I had been friends
(03:18):
with a partner before we kind ofconsummated our relationship.
I I had known her for less than a year before the abuse began,
and once it started, that seemingly didn't end.
Were you married at the time or living together?
What was the? Situation, yeah, we were, we
were, we were engaged at the time living together.
(03:40):
He was actually pregnant at the time that the abuse began and
then it continued after he had our our child.
So it was really a very difficult situation for me and
and that's why I'm here today totry to spare my experience in
(04:01):
the event that it could help just one person that would, you
know, was would be in a like situation.
What made you stay in this relationship since the the if it
was not a one time event the theabuse happened on a recurring
basis at least late and so why make yourself stay there for
that? Yeah, that's a great question.
(04:23):
I, which I ask myself frequently.
I, I journal a lot. And you know, before today's
meeting with you, I, I, I went back to my notes and, and I
asked myself that question a lot.
I think it's because I believe in people and I've never been
around abuse, so I didn't know how to respond to it in the
moment. So instead of asking for help
for myself, I tried to find helpfor her.
(04:46):
And I reached out to, you know, I chronicled every moment of the
abuse, every, every incident. I wrote a long letter to her at
first that I in fact was in an abusive relationship to which
she agreed. And I shared, I shared the, I
shared that with her, her, her family, because I thought that
(05:09):
it would be appropriate for themto understand that I, I, I
needed some help to be able to help her.
So that's a great question. And, and, and again, to this
day, it, it's something that I want to be able to share my
story to help others because, you know, hindsight, as you
know, is 2020 and I would have handled it differently.
(05:31):
But at that time I thought the right thing to do was to try to
help instead of help her insteadof try to help myself.
At what point did you did this become so much that you decided
that enough was enough and you and you did end this
relationship? It's when she brought it in to
the children and she she hurt mychild, she hurt my son.
(05:55):
And that's when my legal troubles began because I had I
called 911 immediately. She, you know, I previously
mentioned to her we were in counseling at the time he had,
he finally was seeking counseling for her issues.
And you know, I said, if you bring the abuse, I said I can
(06:18):
handle it as an adult. But if I ever see this, and
I'll, I'll work with you to seekthe help that you need.
But if you ever bring this into our, our family, down to our
children, it, it's, we can't, wecan't exist.
We can't exist as as a unit and and that in fact happened where
she the physically assaulted my child and I in turn called 911
(06:42):
as a result of that. What was your thought process
when you were calling 911? What?
What did you expect to happen? That they would, I would, I
would get some help. I would get some relief of the
situation that I was in. It was a untenable situation.
I was, I was holding a, you know, a, a six month old baby in
one arm and consoling my, my 8 year old child in the other that
(07:06):
was hysterically crying trying to escape from this individual.
So I was in a very untenable. I, I, I had, I needed help.
That would That's when I knew I needed help and I thought I was
going to receive help. And what did happen when the
police arrived? I was arrested.
(07:26):
Did your did your partner make charges against you at that time
or was this just automatic behavior by the police or?
No, she, she actually be injuredherself while the police were in
route and she admitted, she admitted as much she be self
injured. She she was smart enough to know
that someone was going to be taken away and she didn't want
(07:49):
it to be her. So you know, it's the first, the
first person that the police sawwas her.
They saw that she was visibly upset and sustained an injury,
that she armed herself and I wasupstairs with the children
trying to protect them from her at the time.
And they barrel down the door and took the kids away and next
(08:12):
thing I was gone. I was in.
I was arrested. How long was the the legal
battle from from being arrested that night to to be to
resolution in court? Here's the perplexing elements
to this whole, you know to this whole story is that following
that incident, the the pardon was very remorseful, understood
(08:35):
that she did the wrong thing by me, understood that he abused
the legal system. And you know, someone that is a
college professor that has nevercommitted any crime ever before
had a serious charge against him.
And I, Andy, to be honest with you, I, I had no idea how I've
(08:56):
never been in court. I, I, I, I, you know, I appeared
the next day and I didn't realize how serious the charges
were, you know, because I, I hadn't committed a crime.
And So what ended up happening was, you know, she realized she
wanted to, she wanted to stay inthe relationship.
And we did, you know, we had, I had a 8 year olds home with like
(09:20):
my ex-wife and the six month oldat the time with her.
And I'm very family oriented. So I, I, I really wanted to make
sure I, I tried to take all the right steps to see this through
again, you know, knowing that that was a very traumatic
experience for me. I knew at that time that I was
(09:42):
going to leave her. I knew immediately that this was
the time, but I had a serious charge levied against me.
So I was trying to, I was in a very difficult situation with
really no resources to support me other than my family and my
friend. And it's quite humiliating, as
you can imagine, you know, having this charge against you.
(10:04):
That is when you're, you're an educator, you know, you're,
it's, it's, it was a, a very difficult situation for me.
So what I ended up doing was I Istayed in the relationship with
her, but I ended up putting my Hondo up for sale.
I knew that I couldn't be aroundher anymore.
(10:24):
And in fact, after that night I wouldn't allow or my ex-wife
wouldn't allow my child, my son to be around this this
individual that had assaulted an8 year old child.
So he wasn't allowed to see her anymore.
I moved back in with my parents,with my son, and I kept the
condo. I put it up for sale, and that
(10:46):
was a way for me to kind of break it off with her.
I wasn't sure what the outcome would be, but that was what I
thought would be the best way toseparate myself from from her
and from the continued abuse. It was just a very toxic
situation. So you're kind of being an an
actor in this time. Let letting her think you want
(11:08):
to continue the relationship while you're severing ties.
Yeah, it was, it was very stressful because obviously I, I
cared for her as a person and I,I had this charge against me.
And it was, it was up to her to essentially relieve me of the
charge. And, and she, she, my lawyer at
(11:30):
the time, actually consulted me to, to be be very nice to her
because the fate of my, of my charge rested in her hands are
eventually, you know, I, I really as educated as I believe
I am, I, I really don't, wasn't as familiarized with the
criminal justice system. And, you know, she, she signed a
(11:53):
victim impact statement saying that I didn't do it, that it
was, I never had laid a hand on her.
But at the same time, she, she, she sensed that I was trying to
remove myself from the relationship.
And, you know, she ended up moving back with her parents and
I ended up moving back with my parents temporarily.
(12:15):
But we were still trying to finda way to maintain a relationship
through, you know, through that following that that initial
incident. What was the actual charge
against you at that time? Domestic violence against a
partner. Assault, assault and battery
against a domestic partner. And when she did the victim
(12:39):
statement saying nothing had happened, did she have the
ability the the power to stop the charge or was that already?
She she, she, she did, however, she didn't show up in court that
that that morning. She simply just filled out the,
the victim impact statement and then there was going to be
another court date set, which there was.
(13:00):
But this is just the beginning of the story.
The hope, you know, there was other episodes that have the
transpired following that initial incident to that, that
court date in which if we were, you know, amicable and we were
symmetrical and in so far as ourour futures together, it it
(13:24):
wouldn't have been, it would have been, it would have been
resolved, but it it never got tothat point.
We just, I wasn't willing to to work with her to to maintain our
relationship. She is saying she wants to
continue relationship. You are clear and know that you
don't want one, and for a while you're at least trying to play
nice to have the illusion that maybe there is something there.
(13:47):
So, So what? What happened?
What? What were the other
circumstances? So it was, it was, it was a
living. It was, it was purgatory on
Earth. It was I.
She was very much trying to get us to maintain a family.
She was trying to get my son to open back up to her, even though
he was scared of her. And you know, I, I had made that
(14:09):
executive decision Andy, that I knew I couldn't be around abuse
anymore. It had just hit, you know, it,
it had bottomed out. It had just, I, I can't have, I
couldn't have my building aroundthat.
So I ended up putting my condo up for sale.
And you know, it went, it went very quickly.
(14:31):
Intermittently, I would meet my partner there with the baby so I
could, I could see the baby and that's some time with, with the
baby. And she really used that as a
leverage point to have time withme.
Really, it wasn't, it wasn't about her.
It was just about seeing my children.
And there was an episode, a second episode where she knew
(14:54):
that I, I had essentially established the case against her
because I, I, you know, for custody's sake, I chronicled all
of our history of abuse. DCF became involved after that
initial incident, Andy, because there were two children present
(15:15):
in the house when there's a domestic violence episode and
that automatically triggers a DCF investigation.
So with that, you know, that unto itself was just from from
me who prides myself on the voting and being a dedicated
dad. That was just so foreign to me.
But I obviously I was compliant and and did everything I needed
(15:37):
to do. But you know, I was chronicling
everything that had happened to me in my phone.
There were there were audio recordings, there were photos of
the abuse. She had snatched my computer
with a hammer, she had broken myglasses, she had ruined things
in in the condo, she had snatched walls, ripped doors off
(16:00):
their hinges, and I had all of that information on my phone.
In essence destroyed my phone. He also realized that I had
contacted an ex-boyfriend of hers who she communicated to me
that she had a physical abusive relationship with.
Though I did reach out to him and he was very receptive to me
(16:22):
reaching out. And he did mention, I mean, they
were young, they were in college, but he admitted that he
had issues, especially when she was drinking, which he would
punch him. What ended up happening was he,
he contacted her following my, my contact with him.
We were cleaning out. I had, I had literally the, the
(16:44):
condo had sold. I was, you know, signing the
purchase and fail at like the ITwas, it was ready to go.
She just had to clean up. I, I left some stuff for her to
pick up at the condo and I agreed to to meet her there to
do that. And what ended up happening was
that was the another fatal mistake that I made to trust
(17:05):
myself alone with her. At that point she confronted me
on reaching out to the ex-boyfriend because he he he he
actually reached out to her and saying congratulations on your
child there. I wish you the breath in your
life ahead that she started to realize that I was building a
case against her and she thoughtthat the children, our daughter
(17:28):
would be taken from her. Though he we had me arrested
again that day. What ended up happening was she
cornered me. He knew I would never lay my
hands on her. And all the all the times, all
the horrible nightmares living, living those back, I would never
(17:51):
lay my hands on her. And she knew that.
And she would always block the door for me to be able to exit
because she would have put her body in front of the door and
not let me leave. And I was, she had my phone, so
I had no, I, it was no way I could call anyone.
And so she ended up, I ended up trying to escape from her.
(18:13):
So I, I, I just ran into the bathroom.
I closed the door, she tried to pick it down and she, she, after
a few minutes be stopped and shesaid, OK, I'm, I'm just going to
cool off. What we need to cool off and
we're just going to go get us coffees at the Starbucks.
And, and I breathed a sigh of relief.
(18:34):
I'm like, thank the Lord, I, I can finally go.
I can finally leave. I ended up leaving.
I was moving things back to my tires house.
I was in there and I had to get everything out of the condo
because the the new resident wascoming in literally the
following week. So everything has to be out.
There was a walk through schedule.
So that was an important date toget everything out.
(18:57):
And I come back from dropping things off in my tires and
there's five police cars waitingfor me at my condo.
And I asked what was going on. And then they started AU so and
so and I said yes. And they're like, you're under
arrest for domestic violence. They didn't tell me what I did
(19:20):
or anything like that. They just literally put me in
the car and I was taken again. And they I, I, it didn't
surprise me, Andy it it, it, it didn't surprise me.
It was, it was her attempt at a desperate like some sort of
(19:43):
redemption against me that some sort of revenge and did it
against the she was self abusive.
She admitted this he hurt her, felt she actually admitted this
to our therapist that we createdself harm.
And she, that was her, that was her weapon against me.
So the first time you were arrested, were you just released
(20:07):
the next day? Yes, I had no record, Yeah.
Right. So you arrested again, is it the
same experience you arrested a second time?
Is it they just take you in, book you and let you go?
It's a little bit more serious because keeping in mind it was,
it was about two months between the 1st and 2nd Instagram, they
let's just say the bail was significantly higher and it was
(20:31):
far more serious because this time around he wasn't on my
side. The second time around, he
wanted me to go away. He realized that the
relationship was over and he hadstated that if we weren't
together, he was going to ruin my life and do it well in our
way of doing that. Yeah.
(20:53):
How was the rest of your life impacted this point?
Was this in the news that local paper?
Does it affect you at work? Oh sure.
I did though. I, so coming out of that, that
second quarter appearance, I, I had AGPS bracelet where I was
allowed to go to work and you know, I was, it was essentially
(21:19):
AGPS bracelet just wasn't allowed to go where she lives,
where she resides, which I, I was perfectly OK with.
Obviously it's very humiliating to have AGPS bracelet when
you're out college professor andyou have to try to explain that
to an 8 year old, your 8 year old child.
I, I, I was, I managed it. I knew I'd done nothing wrong.
(21:42):
Maybe I was naive to the system and looking back, of course I
was. But I had two charges against me
at this time. I had an ankle, the GPS bracelet
and a restraining order against me that was issued the second
time. So the first time the, you know,
she signed a victim impact statement.
(22:02):
He knew that she was in error. And if we wanted to try to
maintain a relationship, you know, and, and win me back, so
to speak. This time around, she knew that
I was building a case against her.
And then I, I was, I had closed the door in our relationship.
There was no, I was just vengeance.
It wasn't, it wasn't trying to be amicable at all.
(22:23):
So with that came, you know, herin the court, try to get my bail
revoked, try to send me to prison that second time that
failed, but they did put the GPSpriestly on me.
But she got, she got her with about a month later, she got her
with. Well, since I had a restraining
(22:43):
order, obviously there's a no contact order as a result of
that and I had no reason to contact her.
I in fact, I, I had wish she haddisappeared from my life well in
advance of this. You know, the unfortunate
reality is that that child's thereal victim and all of this.
But you know, it was, it was a it was like, remember it clear
(23:06):
as day. It was, it was right.
The Thursday night going into a Friday morning and the, the
police show up at my door and communicate that there was
contact between me and her, thatI initiated some contact.
And like I they, so they, they, they took me.
(23:31):
They took me and I spent 72 daysin prison. 72 days.
Wow. The the story continues.
But I, I had no, I didn't, I didn't, I did not do that.
I, she literally provided 0 evidence to the police.
(23:56):
But you know, because I had those two charges against me,
your, I think you're viewed through the eyes of, you know,
law enforcement as a criminal, as a, as a thug, as someone that
is a woman abused as women. And that was none of those
things. But at the end of the day, I was
the one who was taken away. I spent 72 days in prison.
(24:17):
I obviously lost my job. I, I received my resignation
letter from my university in themail at the jail that insulted
injury. It was, it was I, it was, it was
still real. I, I had, that was still real.
That's the only way to explain that as someone that the only
(24:40):
time I've ever stepped foot in the jail was, you know, for a
sociology class and in high school to do an observation.
What was the most shocking part of this?
Is it the the actions of your abuser or was it more the
actions of the legal system? Yeah, I think that's a great
question. I think that she was allowed to
use the law, the legal system against me.
(25:02):
She was usually, she was able toget gain her vengeance against
me by abusing the system and it was allowed.
There was literally no evidence that I had ever done any of the
things that I was accused of doing. 0 And here I am at that
(25:24):
point having three charges against me who do my thickest
assault and batteries and a violation of a restraining
order, none of which I had committed.
And here, here I was, you know, I'm spreading, you know, two 2
1/2 months in prison. How did you maintain or did you
(25:47):
maintain any sense of hope during that time?
Yeah, it was difficult. It was I, it was surreal.
So I just embraced it at that moment.
It was, it was almost like like a phenomenological study where I
just, I kind of became where I, I was, became part of the
environment. And I think that that helped me
(26:09):
accept it at that time as as difficult as it was.
And, you know, I actually made alot of friends there.
I, you know, they a lot of advocates, you know, when, when
I was able to scare what had happened to me and why I was
there and you know, they, they called me the professor.
(26:30):
They gave me like I had some St.cred there, you know, so it was
I, I just, I had to make the best of it.
And I the only thing that reallykept me going were, you know,
the notes from like my now partner and my son and my
family. That that that's what kept me
motivating, motivated and as foreign as the place that that
(26:53):
was to me. You know, my friends to this day
still can't believe that I was there based on who I am.
And but at the same it happened.It happened as a result of this
current system and the way that it can be manipulated.
(27:15):
So you're in prison, 3 charges against you.
I know you end up with more charges against you.
So so how? How do those unfold?
Yeah, so while I was in prison, I got slapped with another
charge. I had a, a Courier show up with
a, a letter saying that I've hadan intimidation of a witness
(27:40):
charge against me that I tried to intimidate the part, her
alleged witness trying to coerceher.
I guess allegedly it was for thevictim impact statement that I
coerced her into signing that and the police were I guess
(28:01):
believed her. I, I don't know how that works
and I, I don't know how that that's a very serious charge
actually. So without any evidence, I don't
know how they, they were able tojust slap that charge on me.
So while I was just sitting there in, in the penitentiary, I
got slapped at the 4th charge. So might as well add another one
(28:23):
to the plate. I finally got out.
I finally got out house arrest, no job and leave and leave the
house. Have, you know, an 8 year old
child, right Co parent, have, you know, split custody with,
(28:44):
you know, I, it was a year, a year of a year of house arrest.
So 72 days in prison followed bya year of house arrest wearing
an ankle monitor. You know, yes, you're allowed to
leave if you get a job, but I, Ihad four charges against me.
How can I get a job and additionto that, I I had there were
(29:09):
there were some, you know, there's some flexibility with
being able to when you're a parent to be able to drop off or
pick up your child to school, which of course I wanted to do.
However, the the ex partner whenI when I I had I literally had a
(29:29):
a meeting with the court in my the virtual meeting with a judge
in my attorney. She blocked me from being able
to drop off and pick up my son from school and saying that our
daughter had a pediatric dentistwithin 500 yards of the school
and I would know exactly when she would be there.
(29:52):
And she was scared and threatened by me.
So the judge granted didn't grant me the ability to pick up
my child. So I was literally housebound.
I couldn't leave. It was that that was more
painful than actually the 72 days in prison, not being able
to provide for your child. Like, you know, I, I'm a, I'm an
(30:14):
active person. I'm a marathoner.
I, I, you know, I run like 50 to60 miles a week.
I have an ankle monitor on, you know, I, I can't work on it was,
it was very, it was a very trying time.
Did you have any advocates, people you could, you know, lean
on during this time? Because I I can't imagine the
(30:36):
frustration of knowing you've done anything wrong, but the
entire system says otherwise. Correct.
Yeah, I mean, my, my, my best friend's a a like a, a Boston
police Lieutenant. And he he, he couldn't he
couldn't even believe it. But the end of the day, yes, I,
I, I was blessed to have a very strong support with, with my, my
(31:01):
family, my parents especially, and my partner, Lauren and my
son, you know, kept me going on.They kept me, my spirits up.
It it was, you know, in those, in those instances, you, you
always need rituals. You need thing, you need to be
around family. You need some sort of, you know,
(31:22):
because it can go the other way real quick, I'm sure, But, you
know, just trying to be resilient.
You know, I, as someone that reads a lot, I write a lot.
I, I, and started journaling, kind of capturing what am I
feeling, what I'm experiencing. I, I started my own company at
that point, you know, with kind of thinking forward Andy,
(31:46):
thinking that at some point I, I, I really need to be able to,
to help others because this is honestly such a trying time.
And I, and it was just unfathomable based on the fact
that I committed no crime and some individual that just was
vengeful that I didn't want to be with her, was able to use the
(32:07):
system to penalize me in such a way that it crippled me, you
know, financially. I, I lose my job, I, I can't
work, I, I can't be a dad, I can't coach, I can't, I can't be
social. I everything, you know, every
element, every bucket of life other than like family was taken
away. But you know, interestingly, it
(32:30):
was while I was on house arrest that I got my 5th charge.
So I didn't even have to leave the house for this one.
And you know that police show upagain in the middle of the
night. It was, you know, ironically, a
Friday night. And this individual understands
that if you're detained on a on a Friday night, you're sitting
(32:52):
in, in detention in a prison in a cow until Monday morning when
the courts open. So again, strategically planned
this, this individual set up a, a false snapshot account and
indicated that I had communicated to her via Snapchat
(33:16):
instead of, of distorted image of my, my child to her.
And that's allegedly what she showed the police.
And they took that as evidence enough that I should be detained
and slapped with a charge, whichwas the second violation of her
restraining order. So that was the 5th and final
charge. And I spent three nights, three
(33:40):
nights. Fortunately, my attorney is very
good and is a friend to this daybecause I've spent so much time
with him. But he said there's no way that
this happened. We got a tech expert involved
there. There was just, there was just
no way. There was literally no way that
it came from my phone. I mean, none of these things
came from my phone. It was scanned by a, you know,
(34:01):
FBI, former FBI agent that has specialized in the logistics and
information systems. And they scan my phone.
None of it on my phone. So you got 5 charges against you
and you're really it it it feelslike you're up against a
criminal mastermind who knows the system knows how to use it
strategically to inflict the most pain onto you.
(34:25):
How is there finally resolution and and clearing of charges when
it is just a a a she said he said situation?
Yeah, it was a it was a gradual process, you know, and you know
the whole saying with the wheelsof justice, while they do turn
very slow, that's for sure. So the, the D as office
(34:47):
dismissed those, those two alleged restraining order
violations. There was no evidence, she
couldn't produce any evidence. So they they just dismissed
those. And then I had to go through
trial on the other guardian site1 by 1 and the jury found me not
guilty on all. I think I'm a pretty credible
(35:09):
person because I've never committed a crime and ultimately
I was cleared of all, all charges.
It it took a long time. The the irony between behind the
last charge, which was very recent, is that I left court
that day and the criminal mastermind stalked me and
(35:33):
literally knows where I live, knows what kind of car I drive.
I know that she's been having mefollowed because it's been, it's
been mentioned in probate court because I'm trying to gain
custody of some custody of my daughter.
And it's been communicated that she's been having these
(35:54):
followed. So she knows where I live.
She knows pretty much some information about me that I
don't know about her because I really don't care.
I just want to eradicate her formy life.
But that particular day, it was very recent.
He he called the police and saidthat I had violated the
(36:16):
restraining order that I was So that one, one nugget of
information that I should communicate is that I do have
currently a civil ending matter,which is the final restraining
order that hasn't It was extended last May and it expires
after a year. So that hasn't been, even though
(36:36):
all criminal matters have been have been absolved that that's
still the one tending charge. So he ended up calling the
police and saying that I was following her and he was, he has
no reason to be in the town where I live.
Literally the court is 5 minutesfrom courthouse, is 5 minutes
(36:59):
from where Ira died. And he was sitting out waiting
for me to to get home. And she called the police and
said that I was I was following her, that I was stalking her and
they came to the door. My poor son was here, he was
very concerned and scared because he's been around when
the police have come and taken me, you know, and that that will
(37:22):
never leave me that, you know, he's a wonderful young boy and
he you know, he's very Brazilian.
We have a great relationship, but just the fact that something
so serious like a, a charge likethat and just be taken.
So again, it's the criminal mastermind.
But fortunately I got my lawyer on the phone.
(37:44):
He explained that I, I left the court with him.
We drove around and we were going to go celebrate.
That was the 5th and final charge.
That was that. That's 4 long years of my life
that have been in and out of thecourts, in and out of the
system. And it's been, it's been really
a long battle and it was time tocelebrate.
(38:05):
Instead, I was again in fear that I was going to be taken
again, lose my job. It was, it was just, it was, I
almost had a panic attack. Unfortunately, the police did
the right thing at that time. They listened to me, they
listened to my lawyer and they realized that it was not a
credible story. I wish they had done that, that,
(38:27):
that diligence the previous times, but fortunately, you know
that. Yeah.
But that just speaks to the character of this individual.
It's it, it's just, it's still ongoing.
And it I, I don't understand. I don't, I don't understand it,
quite frankly. I.
(38:47):
I believe if I was in a similar situation I would really be
interested in revenge getting back.
Did you consider charges againsther or civil suits or anything
like that? Or is that just beyond your
personality? That's a great question.
And don't think that I don't spend a lot of my time thinking
(39:09):
about that. You know, I, I, I do believe
that life has a way of, of working itself out.
You know, I think for me, the best form of revenge I can have
is just like being successful and by sharing my story, by
being able to help others that may be impacted.
(39:30):
You know, obviously this is a hard story to duplicate, but I
know that there's others out there that are, are, are faced
with situations with their falsely accused of things and it
can be debilitating to your life.
And that's why I, I really want to dedicate, you know, I, I, I'm
an educator and coach at heart. It's something that I love to
do. I've been doing it, you know,
(39:51):
essentially my entire career. And you know, I want I want to
be able to continue to do that. And I think that will give me
personal stylist. I think that will give me, you
know, the ability to look look back on all of all of this that
I've been to already. And my family and the closest to
(40:11):
me, they've been a part of this as well.
And that's not lost on me, but you know, I think being able to
really communicate. The story share my story the
messaging and the being able to help others is is the best way
to to have revenge. With the gift of hindsight, is
(40:36):
there something you wish you knew back at the start?
Is there 1 action that really would have made something
different for you? Yeah, it's the first signs of
abuse. Obviously abuse looks comes in
many forms and looks a little bit differently depending on the
circumstance. But the the physical abuse, once
(40:57):
it starts, it continues. And in hindsight, that's, that's
where, especially when you have children in the household,
especially that's, that's where I, I, I wish I had just realized
that I couldn't help this person, the only person that
(41:19):
could help her with herself and she's chose not to do that.
What was the biggest challenge in not just rebuilding your
life, rebuilding your sense of self and you know, being able to
trust another person the rest ofyour life.
What? What's the biggest challenge in
that? It's been huge.
You know, like I said, fortunately I have amazing
(41:40):
people around me. That amazing family, they keep
me going, amazing friends and they know me to the core and
have kept me. But it, it's tough.
I mean, I've been crippled in somany ways.
You know, I fortunately my career path is, is back on
(42:01):
track, but it was sidetracked for many years and and that's
something that that's my livelihood.
I worked very hard to attain a certain place.
And when that's taken from you, it it's it's hard to, it's hard
to, it's hard, it's hard to digest.
You know the ability when you have criminal charges, you can't
do things like code things that I love to do.
(42:23):
And that was that was really trying for me.
Yell my child saying dare I? Can you coach?
Can you coach? Can you coach up my team here?
It's, it's humiliating, it's public humiliation.
Unfortunately, a lot, not many people know what have happened
to me and my like outside of my close circles.
(42:44):
So I have not been liberal with sharing my story, but I do think
that my confidence, it was, was really destroyed for quite a
long time in my belief and in the system.
You know, when I've, I've alwaystried to be someone that has
done things the right way, treated people with kindness and
respect, and I'll continue to live that way.
(43:07):
I never, I never stopped being that person.
But at the same time, it's question that, you know, that
whole adage of, you know, bad things can happen to good
people. It, it, it's, you know, I feel
blessed like there's, there's people in lights that have worse
off situations with terminal illnesses and I feel blessed for
what I have. But at the same time, it's been
(43:29):
the, the journey's been very trying.
I, I feel sick every time I think about a courtroom.
It's just, it's just so foreign for me.
It's not. And I think it's given me some
it, it's definitely made me a smarter person.
But at the same time, it, it wasa very challenging journey.
(43:54):
And you, you feel alone a lot inthat journey.
You feel helpless because it's, it's, it's a criminal justice
system. And with that there's, there's
records, there is public, publicrecords.
And it's just very humiliating. I think that personal
humiliation is not how the character of who I am and I want
(44:17):
to be represented to the general.
Public I I meet many men that have experiences, you know, just
a, a piece of this, a one false charge against them or A1 bad
experience in court and it makesthem so jaded and bitter and
really decide that all women areevil and just just they just
stay full of hate. You are not you do not come
(44:40):
across that way at all. So what has helped you the most
in regaining your confidence in in letting you be who you always
were? You know, I, I, not to go all
spiritual here, but I do think, you know, believing in a higher
order, I think believing that the path will be at the right
(45:01):
path. Ultimately, it's just part of
the journey. And you know, I, my, my parents
are, are, you know, religious people.
I mean, they, they, they believein their messaging has always
been, you know, things will workthemselves out.
This is a this, this is part of what was supposed to happen to
you. Whether you can make sense of it
(45:23):
now at the time or not, it'll make sense at some point.
And I've, you know, I've embraced that notion, Andy,
because I, I don't want to be known as a bitter person.
I don't want to be known as someone that heals theater that
I feel life too short to live life that way.
I do think that, you know, I want to be able to promote this
(45:48):
what is personal, my personal voyage like, like to be able to
maybe fix some things that are wrong and or help people that
are need help. So, you know, instead of being
saying I'm a victim and I'm victimized by all this, I'd
rather, I'd rather change that narrative and they this is
(46:11):
something that happened and I want to, it's not right and I
want to change it. From talking earlier, I know
that a men's group helped you. Can you like, how beneficial,
how supportive was that men's group for you?
Very, I, I thought it was, you know, because the, again, a lot
of the statistics say that, you know, most incidents of domestic
(46:35):
violence are, are, are men against women, which is
factually accurate. But you know, Anne Silver's, our
friend Anne has dedicated a lot of her, her work to highlighting
that it, it goes both ways. It's not just abuse of men
against women. And, and of course the Me Too
(46:55):
movement didn't kind of help that.
But at the same time, there, there's plenty of incident
incidents where females abuse men, but law enforcement doesn't
believe that. And so I, you know, I think that
there's, it's a flawed system. I think training, you know,
(47:17):
maybe law enforcement training could be feeling how to handle
certain situations instead of just, you know, I've met with
law enforcement, the I've met with a lot of them and, and
they've, they, they acknowledge that it, it's not, it's a flawed
system. It's, you know, say it's, if we
show up and this is this, then we have to do this.
(47:39):
And I, I, I understand it's a, there's a larger, you know,
global conversation on that, butit, it's just the, the men's
group helps you, you talk about these situations and realize
that you're not alone, that there are other individuals out
(48:02):
there that it's, it's not just men versus women or women versus
men. It's just, it's just domestic
violence in general. And that how can we stop that?
So the group I was was with was part of a coalition against
domestic violence and finding initiatives and ways to, you
know, engage and talk about things like talk, talk
(48:23):
masculinity and things of that sort.
Kind of dissolving some of the notions that, you know, men.
Men are always the perpetrators of these, you know, incidents.
But it's just simply not the case though, right?
Yeah, unfortunately people abusepeople.
Any type of person, the gender, age, it doesn't really matter.
(48:48):
But yeah, you know, I don't knowif it's society, popular culture
slanted that it's always just One Direction.
Absolutely. To follow that, like, what do
you think the stigma around men being victims of physical abuse,
what what do you think that's rooted in?
That's a great question. I don't know if I can give a
profound answer. You know, I, I think that a lot
(49:11):
of men don't want to admit that they've been a victim of
domestic abuse. That, that that's first and
foremost, I just, I've never been around abuse.
I've never been around physical violence, though.
It was just so foreign to me that, you know, you asked about
the hindsight question. I, I naturally, I wanted to help
(49:32):
someone versus run from them. And that's the message in that I
would employ, you know, moving forward to anyone that I would
talk to you. You don't, you can't, like they
say, don't stick around, right? If it happens once, it's going
to happen again. And, and I now I know, I know, I
(49:52):
know it's not just rhetoric, it's, you know, it, it's so
it's, it's something that is a serious issue that, you know, it
happens in a household. It doesn't happen out in public
for the most part. I mean, so it's very private.
And, you know, from in my instance, you know, it's, you
(50:13):
know, I was, I was the one that was the victim, but yet he
procreate herself as the as the victim, you know, and, and every
opportunity and, and everyone believed her that that's that's
where I I find fault and flaw in, in our system, in our
current system, when all I was trying to do Andy was protect my
(50:36):
child. And that set up a stereo to the
event that really ruined my life, quite frankly, and really
put my life on hold and had to rebuild in every possible way
for, you know, still working through it.
So. Patrick, you did mention, you
know, just feeling that cringe in your in your guts think about
(50:57):
a courtroom or anything like that.
Do you still have fear and anxiety related to your ex?
Absolutely. Yeah.
It's it it, it's like a paranoia.
How do you how do you deal with that and how do you keep that
from spreading to all potential partners?
(51:18):
It's, it's certainly not easy, you know, because it's everyone
in my household now is, is awareof this individual and is aware
of what she's capable of in a sense.
And I, I don't, you know, I, I don't know how it, how it ends.
(51:38):
I, I don't, I don't know how it ends.
I, I simply don't. But I can't worry about all I
can do is worry about how I control myself, how I treat
others and how I move forward. But I do think that, you know,
I've thought about moving. We're going out of state.
Honestly, I don't want her to know any anything about me.
I don't want to get her to know where I work, where I live.
(52:01):
She knows all those things. And because she hasn't followed
still to this day, and I have no, I have no idea what her
motives are. I really don't.
She's already taken so much for me.
So I I don't know where where her end game is or what her end
game is. Is there anything top of mind
ways that you wish society in the legal system could better
(52:23):
support male victims? Yeah, I do.
You know, I wished again, I wished I had a more profound
answer, but I I just think that the way that things compounded
so quickly without any sort of like conversation, you know, our
understanding from where my my vantage point, it was just this
happened. OK, We believe it, this
(52:45):
happened. OK, we believe it that and there
was literally 0 evidence the thethe police cannot provide.
They provided 0 evidence. And in fact, when even in one of
the the cases where the police testified in court, an officer
he he he fumble around, he had no idea.
Like he, he realized it was probably an error.
(53:07):
Like, you know, based on the, the questioning from from my
attorney at the time, there was literally no, no tact to see
anything. There was, there was 0
repercussions. It was just book, yeah, well,
book them. So I think, I, I do think that
needs to be far more education and how charges can destroy
(53:29):
someone's life. Something so serious that isn't
even really investigated. There's there's no evidence.
It's just Yep, OK, sure. But let's the the courts handle
it. And that's pretty much what
happened. It's like, OK, well, we just did
our job, but now let's pass it along, pass the buck along to
the courts and see what they do.And, and I just think that
(53:51):
that's extremely careless and reckless.
And I think it's blot in in manyways.
Do you have any advice besides don't stick around to a man, any
other man that finds himself in in an abusive relationship?
I do, you know, I think that oneof the one of the outcomes of
this in which this individual told me that he, she had
(54:14):
targeted me. We were friends prior to being
in a, in a, in a relationship. It was just an acquaintance, but
she knew he saw how I treated others.
She saw how I was a dad to my son, how kind I was.
And he he admitted that she targeted me, that he said, you
(54:37):
know, I, I, I baby trapped you. He said, I, this is one thing
that I didn't explore with you in our conversation.
But she mentioned that when we first were in a relationship,
you know, when we evolved from friends into, you know, a
relationship, that she wanted tohave a baby with me, that she
didn't care if we were ever married, but she wanted someone
(54:59):
with my looks and my smarts in the way that I was.
So she, she was so from the get go, she lied.
And so I think that people are targets.
They may not know it or not, butif you are successful, if you
are, you know, I, I specificallythink of young men who, you
(55:19):
know, I work a lot in the, the sports base and I think about,
you know, college athletes and now that they're millionaires,
then, you know, with NIL deals. I, I, I really, a lot of my work
is going to be focused on, you know, alerts like alerting
yourself. You're a target.
You're a target for a lot of things.
And you see a lot in today's sports media about allegations
(55:45):
against professional athletes because they're targets.
So I think if you're a lawyer, if you're a successful person,
you know, you could be a target and you may not know it.
Patrick, I I wanna thank and commend you.
I know this has been a long trying journey and your courage
(56:09):
and bravery and vulnerability and speaking openly about it in
the hopes that someone else doesn't have to go through what
you've gone through. And that the legal system, how
police investigate things or or don't you know, just
automatically leaving one personin a split second, helping to
bring some light to all those issues and bring change.
(56:29):
What's the best way for people to connect with you or learn
more about your coaching or or what have you?
Yeah, I, that's a great question.
Thank you, Andy. I mean, connecting via LinkedIn,
I think would, is, would be amazing.
I can share that with you. But you know, I do think that
that's the best way that to communicate.
And in fact, I, you know, I, I, I want to continue this work and
(56:51):
I want to continue this messaging and, and being
proactive and in this community to help, to help men to help the
global community at large that want to discuss this, want to
have some good dialogue about what's going on.
Awesome. Again, thanks Patrick for
joining us today. Thanks everyone for listening to
(57:12):
us. Please visit realmanfield.org.
We'll have a blog post for this episode.
We'll have links to various resources, books, support
mentioned. Wherever you're discovering Real
Man Field, please subscribe, follow, like, share this with
somebody, post, review or comment.
And indeed, this is an importantepisode to share with someone
that you think might possibly bein a similar situation like
this, having gone through it or being in the middle of it.
(57:34):
And if you need more support around this, I invite you to
book some time with me, visit theandygrant.com/talk, have a
free clarity call with me, and we'll see if there's anything I
can offer you other pointers beyond if if something in this
conversation wasn't enough to get you to the help you need and
deserve, I'm glad to talk to you.
And until next time, be good to yourself.
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