March 2, 2025 • 35 mins
In this episode of the Real Retirement Show, hosts Yasmin and Kathleen discuss the unique challenges faced by lawyers when retiring. Joined by special guest Ida Abbott, a renowned retirement strategist, the conversation delves into the emotional and institutional hurdles of transitioning from a legal career to retirement. Ida shares her personal journey, highlights the importance of self-awareness and empathy, and emphasizes the need for early planning and open communication. Discover actionable advice and real-life stories for a smooth transition into retirement.
00:00 Understanding Lawyers' Reluctance to Retire
00:45 Introduction to The Real Retirement Show
01:30 Meet Ida Abbott: Retirement Strategist
02:39 Ida's Personal and Career Journey
06:47 Challenges Faced by Retiring Lawyers
07:36 Institutional Challenges in Law Firms
09:19 The Importance of Normalizing Retirement
10:50 Overcoming Personal and Professional Barriers
16:23 Success Stories and Client Breakthroughs
24:51 The Role of Design Thinking in Retirement Planning
32:43 Final Thoughts and Advice for Retirees
Real Retirement Video Podcast: Real Retirement - YouTube
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ida Abbott (00:00):
Lawyers tend to work longer than the general
(00:03):
population.
And they hold on as long as theycan because so much of their
life and their identity andtheir activities and everything
they really do is wrapped up intheir work.
How do I let go?
What do I do if I don't do this?
This has been my life.
if I don't do this, I'm useless.
(00:23):
I have no value.
I won't have any income.
nobody's going to need meanymore.
Nobody's going to call me.
I've got a calendar that's toofull.
what happens if that goes away?
So those are common problems formost people, or at least most
professionals.
And professional, that's beenthe area that I've concentrated
in even beyond law
Yasmin Nguyen (00:45):
Welcome back to the real retirement show.
My name is Yasmin here with mycohost Kathleen, whether you're
retired or thinking aboutretirement, we delve into the
multifaceted world of retirementbeyond the finances.
This isn't your typicalretirement discussion.
It's a vibrant journey into whatretirement truly means in
today's world.
(01:05):
We bring you real stories fromreal retirees and experts
discussing real challenges,surprises, joys, heartaches, and
the myriad of emotions that comewith retirement.
From addressing family dynamicsto mental and physical health to
finding purpose, we tackle theissues that truly matter to
retirees and those thinkingabout retirement.
(01:28):
We're so delighted to have ourspecial guest today.
our guest is Ida Abbott.
She is a retirement strategistwho helps law firms design
respectful and effectivesuccession and retirement
processes and helps individualsdesign happy and meaningful
retirements.
She's been a lawyer.
and a legal consultant foralmost 50 years and is an
(01:51):
internationally recognizedexpert on legal talent, career
development, and women'sleadership.
An elected fellow of both theAmerican Law Foundation and the
College of Law PracticeManagement, Ida has been an
advisor, coach, speaker, andauthor of several seminal books,
(02:12):
including Retirement by Design,.
of the best retirement books of2020 by the Wall Street Journal.
We are so delighted to welcomeyou.
Thanks for joining us, Ida.
Ida Abbott (02:24):
Thank you so much for inviting me to do this with
you.
I'm delighted to be here.
Kathleen Mundy (02:29):
pleasure to have you as our guest this afternoon,
and I know that Yasmin'sprepared some really interesting
questions, and I'm so excited toget started with these
Yasmin Nguyen (02:39):
Yeah.
Ida, we'd love to hear a littlebit about your personal and
career journey and what'sinspired you to focus on, on
this retirement journey, butmore specifically also on the
legal field.
Ida Abbott (02:53):
it was my it's my world.
I've been I started practicinglaw a long time ago.
I did that for 20 years and bothin a very small firm and then in
a very large firm for most of mycareer and when I Decided it was
time to move on.
I kidded around saying I wasretiring, but didn't have a
(03:15):
plan.
Didn't have a clue.
Had two T young teenage kids.
And my husband was verysupportive.
He didn't, he figured I wouldfigure it out.
My, at some point and I did, andI started looking around to see
what was Needed, but wasn'tbeing provided and I had been in
(03:36):
charge of professionaldevelopment in my firm.
I was with a firm that was quiteprogressive in terms of,
developing new lawyers and inlaw, there's no postgraduate
experiential requirement.
All you have to do is pass atest, the bar.
And so lawyers would come inwith some book learning and they
(03:59):
wouldn't know anything about thepractice of law.
So I decided to focus on helpingthem.
And helping firms help them dothat, become practitioners,
become good lawyers.
So I did that for a long time,gradually moved into leadership
development within that field,focused a lot on mentoring,
(04:20):
which was my sweet spot.
And the first book I wrote wasThe Lawyer's Guide to Mentoring.
and gradually, the leaders andthe people I was working with
started to ask me, what do I donext?
many of them were in theirfifties and sixties.
They held a lot ofresponsibility and they were in
(04:41):
prestigious positions.
And they just felt they wantedto have something to do when
they finished doing that.
And there was no path.
So I started looking into it andrealized there was nothing other
than books on financial planningand, financial consultants to
help you plan.
(05:02):
your, financial status for thenext few years, for the rest of
your life.
And I pulled together a group ofpeople who kept asking me that
question and they decided theywanted to start a group.
and I agreed to facilitate that.
And it was in the course ofdoing my research to understand
(05:22):
how I could help them and howthey could help each other that
I realized this was anothermajor need and it wasn't being
met.
And even though most of my workwas in law.
Especially with the mentoringand the leadership work, it
wasn't exclusively.
So some of the people involvedin this were in business.
(05:45):
And I realized it waseverywhere, but particularly in
law, because lawyers tend towork longer than the general
population.
And they hold on as long as theycan because so much of their
life and their identity andtheir activities and everything
they really do is wrapped up intheir work.
(06:07):
so how could I help them?
And, that's where I started justmoving in this direction.
And then at some point decided.
There were enough people doingthe other work now, but there
was nobody here.
I decided to just, stop doingthat, transition that off to
(06:27):
other people, and started tofocus.
And it's been, I don't know,eight, seven or eight years,
maybe longer, I don't know.
but I've been working on thisfield now exclusively for almost
that long.
Kathleen Mundy (06:42):
attitude for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yasmin, we talked about some ofthe challenges that starting
this journey has for many peopleand I'm curious, what did you
find to be the biggest challengefor the people in your practice
now?
The lawyers.
Ida Abbott (07:02):
some are personal and some are institutional.
The personal ones aren'tsurprising.
How do I let go?
What do I do if I don't do this?
This has been my life.
if I don't do this, I'm useless.
I have no value.
I won't have any income.
nobody's going to need meanymore.
Nobody's going to call me.
I've got a calendar that's toofull.
(07:22):
what happens if that goes away?
So those are common problems formost people, or at least most
professionals.
And professional, that's beenthe area that I've concentrated
in even beyond law.
but the institutional ones havebeen the most challenging
because retirement isstigmatized.
(07:44):
And, people who reach a certainage, even, and some firms, fewer
and fewer firms have mandatoryretirement that's age based.
Sometimes, and that meansanything.
Nobody believes it because inmost firms there are more
exceptions.
And everybody believes they willbe the exception.
(08:04):
even where it's firm, where it'sabsolutely firm, many people can
still continue just in adifferent capacity.
They're no longer equitypartners.
They're no longer owners.
And sometimes that works.
Most of the time it works for alittle while and then it just
doesn't.
but, it's just there's a view ofpeople who reach a certain age
(08:28):
as being too old.
It's an A, it's a lot of this isa just a lot of this is just,
it's a stigma that goes alongwith, you're the people who are
making the most money, have themost clients, have the most
control.
You should get out of here so wecan move in.
And what happens is among someof the older partners, they look
(08:52):
around and say, I built this.
I earned this.
Why should I give this over toyou?
And I'm not going to do it.
without some kind ofcompensation, without some
protection, that if I do that,I'm not going to lose, lose
money and lose my connection.
And so there's a kind of anunspoken conflict.
(09:13):
So nobody talks about it.
Kathleen Mundy (09:15):
huh.
Ida Abbott (09:15):
It's silence.
Nobody talks about it.
And so what I've been trying toget firms to do is to normalize
retirement as just another stagein a career
Kathleen Mundy (09:31):
huh.
Ida Abbott (09:31):
and to talk about it so that people don't feel
embarrassed or like they'refailures or they're being pushed
out.
Or they aren't resented by thepeople who want them to leave,
and that there's a systematicway because, firms need the
stability of knowing who's goingto stick around and who's going
(09:54):
and approximately when clientsneed to know, and they get lost
in all of this.
And so I try to emphasize thatclients need to be considered
and they don't want to beblindsided.
And, the individual lawyer who'sretiring needs to have some
(10:16):
systematic way so that theyleave feeling good about it,
feeling prepared, feeling likethey've left a good situation
behind and not like they'regoing off into the unknown to
become totally obsolete andirrelevant, though, and die
because, that's they assume thatthis is the end.
(10:37):
I try to emphasize that reallythis is the conclusion of one
stage and the beginning ofsomething new and filled with
potential.
Yasmin Nguyen (10:50):
Ida.
I'm curious what holds both theindividuals as well as the
organizations back from havingthese conversations because it
seems like that's a an importantstarting point, but not always
the case for individuals ortheir firms.
Ida Abbott (11:09):
lawyers deal with conflict professionally all day
long, so they avoid it inanything personal.
And they really don't want toget into uncomfortable
situations, unless they have to.
And sometimes, there's aperformance problem or a
(11:31):
competence problem.
sometimes they're not all,because somebody's older, but
there are a lot of problemswhere those conversations have
to take place.
And then they'll do it.
but they're awkward about it.
And this is true in a lot ofdifferent Areas, within legal
organizations, in particular lawfirms, but it's, in the legal
(11:54):
department of a corporation,they plan for succession.
This is, it's normal.
It's not, you don't have a lotof this, in agencies and other
things.
Again, they're normal.
So this is a problem that isprimarily in law firms, and
there's a concern aboutsuccession who can do this.
(12:15):
Who can represent my clients aswell as I can, nobody.
And for many people, it's hardto, to think about letting
somebody else take over this.
I've built this.
I've spent, 30 years, 40 yearsof my life, maybe longer
building this, and I can't justlet it go.
it gets to be a little morecomplicated than in many other
(12:37):
situations.
Kathleen Mundy (12:38):
Ida, you hit the nail on the head for two reasons
and, Yasmin and I have hadconversations with lawyers and
we've discussed retirement andeverything that you've said is,
true to our experience.
And,
Ida Abbott (12:54):
That's a relief.
Kathleen Mundy (12:55):
It really is.
And the part where the partabout, having that, I don't want
to have any conflict in mypersonal life is like true, but
you're right.
You can only take on so much inyour lifespan.
And if you're giving andconflicting in one area, you
(13:16):
want a little balance in theother.
But, I think is it, do you thinkthat it has, Or is there
limiting mindsets around thisand how you've been able to help
people shift their perspective?
Ida Abbott (13:32):
I think there definitely are limited mindsets,
to begin, you know, one area isabout, I emphasize the
importance of curiosity.
When you have been an expert allof your career, people come to
you for answers.
It's not as easy to changepositions and be the one who
(13:57):
doesn't know, who's now Enteringsomething really new and scary
and you are, you're having to bethe person seeking help or
seeking answers and who do youeven go to where you're not,
where you're willing to let yourguard down enough to ask.
Kathleen Mundy (14:20):
Yeah.
Be a little vulnerable in theprocess.
Ida Abbott (14:22):
That's right.
it's very hard because we'retaught to be confident and to
know.
The answers and we can workwithin the framework of what we
do every day within legalframeworks, I can go to trial
every day and fight andeverything else and know exactly
what's expected.
(14:43):
Whoops.
Sorry.
And know exactly what'sexpected.
But, when I go home.
That's wide open.
There are no rules, and that isa much scarier thing.
So when I'm talking to somebodyabout facing another 30 years If
(15:08):
I'm not going to be a lawyer forthe next 30 years, or maybe I
will, but I'm not going to be inthis firm doing what I'm doing
in the position I am, what isthis new thing going to be?
And lawyers tend to also be riskaverse.
And so it's not like they're,happy to go jump off, jump, on a
(15:31):
parachute, get into a plane andjump down.
some of them do, many of themare, and certainly there are a
lot of lawyers who take a lot ofrisk and many of them are very
entrepreneurial and, uh, It'snot, I'm not talking about this
as a universal situation at all,but for a lot of people, the
(15:51):
thought of what, this next 30years could be longer, could be,
who knows, could be a week, istoo, is scary.
And I don't want to deal, thisis what I know, I don't want to
necessarily walk into somethingwhere I don't know any of the
rules.
Yasmin Nguyen (16:08):
Yeah, it's.
It's scary to not know what's onthe other side, and I'm curious
from your personal journey, butalso in having conversations
with various different legalprofessionals.
there stories of people who havehad a very successful,
fulfilling experience on theother side of their career, as
(16:31):
well as stories that you'venoticed of those who are
struggling with that transitionthen?
Ida Abbott (16:38):
Of course there are loads of them.
A lot of people are very happyto retire.
They can't wait to retire,right?
They have a million plans orthey have a plan or they have
something they want to do orthey're just, they're done.
They're ready to move intowhatever's out there.
That's a pleasure, right?
(16:59):
Those people are fun and you cantalk to them, work with them.
They don't really need a lot ofhelp.
They've got it.
They've thought it through, but,but they're not the general
rule.
Kathleen Mundy (17:11):
that just, it inspired me to be a little
curious about this point ofview.
If you could share a story withus where your client had a
breakthrough and working withyou made a difference in his or
her outlook for the next 30years.
Ida Abbott (17:30):
I actually had one that's the reverse of what
you're asking about,
Kathleen Mundy (17:34):
Okay, that's perfect.
Ida Abbott (17:35):
it's my favorite.
I had somebody call me who wasa, trust and estates lawyer.
And she had been in her firm.
She helped build the firm.
It was about, I don't know, 15,20 lawyers.
And.
She had been very successful,very happy, and now she wanted
(17:56):
to retire, and she was a little,she was very nervous about it,
and her anxiety was making ithard for her to even stay in
practice.
So we started to talk.
We had a very nice conversation.
When I asked her what it wasthat was all of a sudden, after
all this time, it sounded likethis was Very, relatively abrupt
(18:19):
and she told me that she'd beenworking on a case for a long
time on a with a client andSomebody got unhappy and there
was a lawsuit and so now it's inlitigation and the litigation is
making her so anxious and it'staking so much out of her that
(18:39):
she can't really cope now, trustin the States is not a conflict.
Bill field, it's probate, it'swriting wills, it's developing,
state plans and stuff.
So it's, I could understand whythis suddenly, sudden change
would be so upsetting to her.
And as we talked, I said to her,aren't there lawyers who
(19:01):
specialize in A state litigationor probate litigate all these,
in the litigation of theseissues.
And she said, yes, there are.
I said, is there anybody, whospecializes in that?
And she said, there's someone inmy firm.
I said, what if you transferredthat case to that lawyer?
(19:24):
And it was like one of these,why didn't I think of that?
And all of a sudden I could feelin her voice.
and I said, I said, when you'rereally ready to retire, she just
had a situation that shecouldn't cope with.
So we had that one session, andthat was it.
And I said, when you're reallyready, call me back,
Kathleen Mundy (19:46):
god.
Ida Abbott (19:46):
that was my favorite because it was a lot of times
people really don't know whatthe situation is.
And when you're coachingsomebody, when you're working
with somebody, helping themidentify what's really going on.
Is the key to the whole thing,because sometimes that's all it
takes is to turn it around.
But I have to say, most of thepeople I work with individually,
(20:10):
they're not as, they're not inas serious a situation as I've
been describing to you.
Most of those people don'tnecessarily seek help.
Even when it's offered.
that's why most of my work iswith the firms themselves.
(20:31):
and sometimes somebody will callme, but usually it's because
they have, they need someguidance.
They need to figure out how toapproach what's going on.
but I know there are a lot ofpeople who do seek coaches who
are much more, conventional intheir approaches and will, work
(20:52):
with them with instruments aboutretirement readiness, like some
of the things that you've you'reproviding and, they'll need to
go into it.
More deeply, but I found thatthe people I've been working
with anyway, most of them arenot, they're stuck, but it's not
that hard to help turn themaround with many people.
(21:14):
It's reframing, it's goingthrough the things that are
frightening them or holding themback and helping them understand
and see a way out.
Occasionally, some of myfavorites are working with
couples.
Because there are what I foundinteresting.
(21:36):
A couple of times I've workedwith clients.
who's, who have had problemsbecause they and their spouse
don't agree.
In fact, I worked with two womensimultaneously, where both of
them were married and one ofthem couldn't wait to retire.
(21:57):
she was very successful.
She was under so much stress.
Her last child was going tocollege.
Her husband had been a stay athome dad.
He did not want her to retirebecause.
Of what it was, what the impactwould be on their lifestyle.
(22:18):
He was, that's what worried him.
The other woman was a lawyer whowas at really her peak.
Her husband had been a lawyerwho retired a year or two
earlier.
He wanted to do things.
He wanted to travel and goplaces and, do a lot of things
with her.
(22:38):
And she wasn't ready.
And to me, those are interestingchallenges, helping them have
conversations.
And in my book, actually, thereare a lot of exercises for
couples.
To have with each other.
So that, to do with each otherthat facilitates a conversation.
Kathleen Mundy (23:00):
hopefully in alignment with outlooks as well.
Ida Abbott (23:03):
that's right.
Because, a lot of times I foundthat my clients will have made a
decision and they've come upwith a plan, but they're
assuming that.
Their partner is going to agree
Kathleen Mundy (23:18):
yeah.
Ida Abbott (23:18):
a deep conversation about it.
the example I give is that weboth want to travel and I say,
that's great.
What kind of travel?
And it turns out one, wants togo backpacking in the mountains
and the other wants to go firstclass, a cruise or something.
And so the words are the same,but the meanings are very
(23:39):
different.
And, so sometimes it's a matterof making sure they, they get to
the source of the challenge thatthey're having.
Yasmin Nguyen (23:51):
Yeah, Ida, you had mentioned a, exercises in
your book as well as reframing.
Is there a particular framework,exercise or experience that,
that you've either taken anindividual client through or
when you're working at the firmlevel, taking them through
that's really created some sortof breakthrough?
(24:12):
is there something that youcould share with us that, that
Has been a favorite tool,exercise, or experience that's
created a transformation forpeople.
Ida Abbott (24:22):
I don't have a particular exercise.
and it's very different when I'mworking with a leadership team
trying to figure out processesbecause they're dealing with
different issues.
Um, what I encourage them to dois to make sure they talk to all
of their partners and get,everybody's input before they go
off and come up with a policy.
(24:44):
young people, old people,everybody, cause they all have a
stake in it.
And if they all aren't buyinginto it, it isn't going to
happen.
But with an individual, my bookis based on the premise.
That's a framework for people touse called design thinking.
And so if, if we do more indepth work, I have them take the
(25:08):
book, go through it, not, pageby page, but to see where they
are in the journey, to see whatpart of it is most useful to
them.
And that's what we focus on.
but it's basically, it's designthinking, which is a different
kind of approach to planning.
To thinking through problems andcoming up with solutions.
(25:30):
It is easy to personalize it.
And I think this is somethingthat has to be personalized.
It's why I have a bias againstinstruments, even really good
ones, because I think a lot oftimes they make assumptions
about where people are and whatpeople who are retiring.
(25:51):
Are interested in, and a lot oftimes that's not really
relevant.
And I used myself as an examplewhere I was asked to, to test,
to try out something one time.
And when I got the results, theydebrief me and, I had flunked a
couple of parts of readiness andI thought, that's interesting,
(26:14):
so it turned out the two areas Iflunked were travel.
and volunteering, and I said, Itravel every day in my job.
I'm a consultant.
I'm on a plane all the time.
My family has always takenvacations, long vacations, like
sometimes two, three months.
I've, gone during work.
(26:36):
I've worked it out with my firm,so we always traveled.
I've been to almost all theplaces on my list.
Travel is not something I putoff.
And volunteering, I've been onnonprofit boards, and I've done
pro bono, I ran a pro bono work,the pro bono program in my law
(26:56):
firms, it was one of the largestin the country.
So I've always done that work.
I don't need to worry about howam I going to give back when I
retire, because it's just acontinuation.
Kathleen Mundy (27:09):
Right.
That's
Ida Abbott (27:10):
I said, so why would this, if you tell me that I
flunk these three areas, thesetwo areas, I immediately get on
the defensive.
I'm a high achiever.
You don't tell a high achieverthat they failed.
And, and this person who wasdebriefing me said, Oh, my God,
I never thought, and so I, thiswas several years ago, many
(27:31):
years ago.
I know the field has evolvedquite a bit since then.
But, yeah.
I've always felt that this isone of the most personal areas
and we, you can't make, I can'tmake assumptions about anybody.
I've been telling you about allthese general, things that I
(27:51):
see, the general behaviors andattitudes and feelings and
stuff.
But I don't assume that.
When I work with somebody
Yasmin Nguyen (27:59):
Mhm.
Ida Abbott (28:00):
because I have no idea where they're coming from
and it's up to them, to let meknow and for me to help them
figure it out, but there is noreason, especially for somebody
who's been very successful.
all their life, to be who's nowin a position where they're
feeling vulnerable.
The last thing I want to do isassume that I know something, or
(28:24):
I can help them because I'm theexpert in X, Y, or Z.
I think that's, that is acritical piece of it.
And why I like design thinking,because it's easy to jump in and
work with wherever you are.
at any point in the in thatwhole process,
Yasmin Nguyen (28:43):
Yeah.
Kathleen Mundy (28:44):
you're
Ida Abbott (28:45):
flexible.
It's very flexible andadaptable.
You can change it whenever youwant.
It's not like a plan that givesyou step a B.
C.
D.
Kathleen Mundy (28:54):
but it all evolves around the communication
piece, which you've outlinedseveral times through this
discussion today, and it reallybrings things home.
If you have alignment has tohappen only through the open
communication you have, and thefact that you are guiding it
through with questions andqueries in that process is
(29:15):
really beneficial to thoseparticipants.
Ida Abbott (29:19):
There's a piece even before the communication that's
just as important, and that isthe first step in the design
thinking framework in thatprocess is empathy, which in if
you're talking about yourself,it's self understanding, self
awareness, and it's really hardsometimes to have a effective
(29:44):
communication if you areclueless.
about what's really important toyou and what's driving you and
what you're afraid of and whatyou're strong at and what you're
looking for.
All the questions you need to beasked first before you can then
leap into what you want to do.
You have to start really with adeeper self understanding.
(30:07):
Communication with yourself,which in some ways for people
who have never done it, ispretty scary and difficult.
there are a lot of us who'vebeen asking those questions, our
whole lives and it feels verynatural.
and like you assume everybodydoes that, but they don't.
Yasmin Nguyen (30:26):
Wow.
That's so powerful.
Kathleen, did you have any finalquestions that we wrap up?
Kathleen Mundy (30:32):
Yasmin, as I'm listening to this, I made an
assumption that the people whowere starting this journey might
know themselves, but truth is,oftentimes they don't because
their career is consuming thatthey really haven't taken the
time to really understand whowe, who they are and what their
core values are, if they'veshifted and what they want them
(30:54):
to be in the future.
And Yasmin and I had aconversation about that.
Very topic this morning, and itjust came full circle, and I'm
so glad that you mentioned itbecause it's highly important to
us as we do this work.
Ida Abbott (31:09):
Absolutely.
And, you know, a lot of thepeople I deal with who are
lawyers, they've been working inat something that gives them a
lot of purpose, but isn'tnecessarily in sync with the
values they want to promote.
And this is a time, really, andI try to help them understand
(31:34):
that this is a time where ifthat's what you find, this is
where you can now bring yourlife into sync with the things
that are the most important toyou.
Kathleen Mundy (31:45):
Again, we had almost verbatim
Ida Abbott (31:48):
is that right?
Kathleen Mundy (31:49):
yes, we had this conversation just this morning.
And thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for being sosuccinct in your descriptions
and your outlines to us today inour audience.
I'm sure they're going to gleama lot from
Ida Abbott (32:02):
Oh, thank you, Kathleen and Yasmin,
Yasmin Nguyen (32:04):
And one final question, Ida, how can our
listeners find and learn moreabout you and the powerful work
that you do?
Ida Abbott (32:15):
My website is IdaAbbott.
com.
there are links there to most ofmy work, to videos that they can
watch on YouTube for free, to,videos they can download of
other podcasts and, differentprograms, to articles and books
that I've written.
So you know, or they can callme.
(32:39):
They can email me, Ida atIdaAbbott.
com or, or call
Yasmin Nguyen (32:43):
Wonderful.
as we wrap up, are there anyjust final thoughts that you'd
like to share, Ida, with ouraudience or anyone who may be
considering retiring or maybe anorganization that's navigating
that with their teams?
Ida Abbott (32:56):
I think the important thing is to start
thinking about it.
Early to give yourself a lot oftime and I mentioned the design
thinking mindset.
About curiosity and tryingthing.
I don't know if I mentioned thataction orientation, not just
thinking about it, but doingthings.
But another one is collaborationand not to, you don't have to do
(33:18):
this alone.
There are there are coaches thatcan help you.
There are people who havealready retired that, you can
reach out.
They can tell you about theirjourney, what worked, what was a
problem, that kind of thing.
Get help.
And, talk to people about it.
Most people are happy to talk toyou about these things, but, a
(33:40):
lot of people hold back becausethey're afraid to talk about it
because they're embarrassed.
We don't, all the things that Imentioned earlier.
So finding people to work withand talk with, including your
spouse, is, your partner, that'simportant.
But start early.
(34:00):
Don't wait until the lastminute.
Kathleen Mundy (34:02):
Yeah, start early.
I think that's a key phrase.
Start early, know yourself andstart early in the
Yasmin Nguyen (34:09):
Wow.
what a gift to be able to spendthis time with you, Ida.
And thank you so much for notonly your wisdom, but your
contributions in so manydifferent ways.
And we're so grateful for thisopportunity to, Collaborate with
you and to be able to share animportant message for anyone
who's navigating thistransition.
Ida Abbott (34:27):
Well, Yasmin, thank you.
Thank you for, both of you, forwhat you're doing in this area
and all the people that you'reable to help this way.
and thank you for inviting me tobe part of that.
Kathleen Mundy (34:38):
Our pleasure.
Our pleasure.
Yasmin Nguyen (34:41):
Thank you for taking the time to join us
today.
If you enjoyed this episode orfound it valuable, please
subscribe, follow, and leave acomment or review on your
favorite platform.
If you have friends, clients, orloved ones who are retired or
thinking about retirement, weinvite you to share this show
with them.
Check out the show notes withlinks to resources mentioned in
(35:02):
this episode atRealRetirementShow.
com.
Remember, retirement is a joyfuljourney we get to experience
together.
Join us next week for anotherReal Retirement Conversation.
Lawyers tend to work longer than the general
(00:03):
population.
And they hold on as long as theycan because so much of their
life and their identity andtheir activities and everything
they really do is wrapped up intheir work.
How do I let go?
What do I do if I don't do this?
This has been my life.
if I don't do this, I'm useless.
(00:23):
I have no value.
I won't have any income.
nobody's going to need meanymore.
Nobody's going to call me.
I've got a calendar that's toofull.
what happens if that goes away?
So those are common problems formost people, or at least most
professionals.
And professional, that's beenthe area that I've concentrated
in even beyond law
Yasmin Nguyen (00:45):
Welcome back to the real retirement show.
My name is Yasmin here with mycohost Kathleen, whether you're
retired or thinking aboutretirement, we delve into the
multifaceted world of retirementbeyond the finances.
This isn't your typicalretirement discussion.
It's a vibrant journey into whatretirement truly means in
today's world.
(01:05):
We bring you real stories fromreal retirees and experts
discussing real challenges,surprises, joys, heartaches, and
the myriad of emotions that comewith retirement.
From addressing family dynamicsto mental and physical health to
finding purpose, we tackle theissues that truly matter to
retirees and those thinkingabout retirement.
(01:28):
We're so delighted to have ourspecial guest today.
our guest is Ida Abbott.
She is a retirement strategistwho helps law firms design
respectful and effectivesuccession and retirement
processes and helps individualsdesign happy and meaningful
retirements.
She's been a lawyer.
and a legal consultant foralmost 50 years and is an
(01:51):
internationally recognizedexpert on legal talent, career
development, and women'sleadership.
An elected fellow of both theAmerican Law Foundation and the
College of Law PracticeManagement, Ida has been an
advisor, coach, speaker, andauthor of several seminal books,
(02:12):
including Retirement by Design,.
of the best retirement books of2020 by the Wall Street Journal.
We are so delighted to welcomeyou.
Thanks for joining us, Ida.
Ida Abbott (02:24):
Thank you so much for inviting me to do this with
you.
I'm delighted to be here.
Kathleen Mundy (02:29):
pleasure to have you as our guest this afternoon,
and I know that Yasmin'sprepared some really interesting
questions, and I'm so excited toget started with these
Yasmin Nguyen (02:39):
Yeah.
Ida, we'd love to hear a littlebit about your personal and
career journey and what'sinspired you to focus on, on
this retirement journey, butmore specifically also on the
legal field.
Ida Abbott (02:53):
it was my it's my world.
I've been I started practicinglaw a long time ago.
I did that for 20 years and bothin a very small firm and then in
a very large firm for most of mycareer and when I Decided it was
time to move on.
I kidded around saying I wasretiring, but didn't have a
(03:15):
plan.
Didn't have a clue.
Had two T young teenage kids.
And my husband was verysupportive.
He didn't, he figured I wouldfigure it out.
My, at some point and I did, andI started looking around to see
what was Needed, but wasn'tbeing provided and I had been in
(03:36):
charge of professionaldevelopment in my firm.
I was with a firm that was quiteprogressive in terms of,
developing new lawyers and inlaw, there's no postgraduate
experiential requirement.
All you have to do is pass atest, the bar.
And so lawyers would come inwith some book learning and they
(03:59):
wouldn't know anything about thepractice of law.
So I decided to focus on helpingthem.
And helping firms help them dothat, become practitioners,
become good lawyers.
So I did that for a long time,gradually moved into leadership
development within that field,focused a lot on mentoring,
(04:20):
which was my sweet spot.
And the first book I wrote wasThe Lawyer's Guide to Mentoring.
and gradually, the leaders andthe people I was working with
started to ask me, what do I donext?
many of them were in theirfifties and sixties.
They held a lot ofresponsibility and they were in
(04:41):
prestigious positions.
And they just felt they wantedto have something to do when
they finished doing that.
And there was no path.
So I started looking into it andrealized there was nothing other
than books on financial planningand, financial consultants to
help you plan.
(05:02):
your, financial status for thenext few years, for the rest of
your life.
And I pulled together a group ofpeople who kept asking me that
question and they decided theywanted to start a group.
and I agreed to facilitate that.
And it was in the course ofdoing my research to understand
(05:22):
how I could help them and howthey could help each other that
I realized this was anothermajor need and it wasn't being
met.
And even though most of my workwas in law.
Especially with the mentoringand the leadership work, it
wasn't exclusively.
So some of the people involvedin this were in business.
(05:45):
And I realized it waseverywhere, but particularly in
law, because lawyers tend towork longer than the general
population.
And they hold on as long as theycan because so much of their
life and their identity andtheir activities and everything
they really do is wrapped up intheir work.
(06:07):
so how could I help them?
And, that's where I started justmoving in this direction.
And then at some point decided.
There were enough people doingthe other work now, but there
was nobody here.
I decided to just, stop doingthat, transition that off to
(06:27):
other people, and started tofocus.
And it's been, I don't know,eight, seven or eight years,
maybe longer, I don't know.
but I've been working on thisfield now exclusively for almost
that long.
Kathleen Mundy (06:42):
attitude for sure.
Yeah, absolutely.
Yasmin, we talked about some ofthe challenges that starting
this journey has for many peopleand I'm curious, what did you
find to be the biggest challengefor the people in your practice
now?
The lawyers.
Ida Abbott (07:02):
some are personal and some are institutional.
The personal ones aren'tsurprising.
How do I let go?
What do I do if I don't do this?
This has been my life.
if I don't do this, I'm useless.
I have no value.
I won't have any income.
nobody's going to need meanymore.
Nobody's going to call me.
I've got a calendar that's toofull.
(07:22):
what happens if that goes away?
So those are common problems formost people, or at least most
professionals.
And professional, that's beenthe area that I've concentrated
in even beyond law.
but the institutional ones havebeen the most challenging
because retirement isstigmatized.
(07:44):
And, people who reach a certainage, even, and some firms, fewer
and fewer firms have mandatoryretirement that's age based.
Sometimes, and that meansanything.
Nobody believes it because inmost firms there are more
exceptions.
And everybody believes they willbe the exception.
(08:04):
even where it's firm, where it'sabsolutely firm, many people can
still continue just in adifferent capacity.
They're no longer equitypartners.
They're no longer owners.
And sometimes that works.
Most of the time it works for alittle while and then it just
doesn't.
but, it's just there's a view ofpeople who reach a certain age
(08:28):
as being too old.
It's an A, it's a lot of this isa just a lot of this is just,
it's a stigma that goes alongwith, you're the people who are
making the most money, have themost clients, have the most
control.
You should get out of here so wecan move in.
And what happens is among someof the older partners, they look
(08:52):
around and say, I built this.
I earned this.
Why should I give this over toyou?
And I'm not going to do it.
without some kind ofcompensation, without some
protection, that if I do that,I'm not going to lose, lose
money and lose my connection.
And so there's a kind of anunspoken conflict.
(09:13):
So nobody talks about it.
Kathleen Mundy (09:15):
huh.
Ida Abbott (09:15):
It's silence.
Nobody talks about it.
And so what I've been trying toget firms to do is to normalize
retirement as just another stagein a career
Kathleen Mundy (09:31):
huh.
Ida Abbott (09:31):
and to talk about it so that people don't feel
embarrassed or like they'refailures or they're being pushed
out.
Or they aren't resented by thepeople who want them to leave,
and that there's a systematicway because, firms need the
stability of knowing who's goingto stick around and who's going
(09:54):
and approximately when clientsneed to know, and they get lost
in all of this.
And so I try to emphasize thatclients need to be considered
and they don't want to beblindsided.
And, the individual lawyer who'sretiring needs to have some
(10:16):
systematic way so that theyleave feeling good about it,
feeling prepared, feeling likethey've left a good situation
behind and not like they'regoing off into the unknown to
become totally obsolete andirrelevant, though, and die
because, that's they assume thatthis is the end.
(10:37):
I try to emphasize that reallythis is the conclusion of one
stage and the beginning ofsomething new and filled with
potential.
Yasmin Nguyen (10:50):
Ida.
I'm curious what holds both theindividuals as well as the
organizations back from havingthese conversations because it
seems like that's a an importantstarting point, but not always
the case for individuals ortheir firms.
Ida Abbott (11:09):
lawyers deal with conflict professionally all day
long, so they avoid it inanything personal.
And they really don't want toget into uncomfortable
situations, unless they have to.
And sometimes, there's aperformance problem or a
(11:31):
competence problem.
sometimes they're not all,because somebody's older, but
there are a lot of problemswhere those conversations have
to take place.
And then they'll do it.
but they're awkward about it.
And this is true in a lot ofdifferent Areas, within legal
organizations, in particular lawfirms, but it's, in the legal
(11:54):
department of a corporation,they plan for succession.
This is, it's normal.
It's not, you don't have a lotof this, in agencies and other
things.
Again, they're normal.
So this is a problem that isprimarily in law firms, and
there's a concern aboutsuccession who can do this.
(12:15):
Who can represent my clients aswell as I can, nobody.
And for many people, it's hardto, to think about letting
somebody else take over this.
I've built this.
I've spent, 30 years, 40 yearsof my life, maybe longer
building this, and I can't justlet it go.
it gets to be a little morecomplicated than in many other
(12:37):
situations.
Kathleen Mundy (12:38):
Ida, you hit the nail on the head for two reasons
and, Yasmin and I have hadconversations with lawyers and
we've discussed retirement andeverything that you've said is,
true to our experience.
And,
Ida Abbott (12:54):
That's a relief.
Kathleen Mundy (12:55):
It really is.
And the part where the partabout, having that, I don't want
to have any conflict in mypersonal life is like true, but
you're right.
You can only take on so much inyour lifespan.
And if you're giving andconflicting in one area, you
(13:16):
want a little balance in theother.
But, I think is it, do you thinkthat it has, Or is there
limiting mindsets around thisand how you've been able to help
people shift their perspective?
Ida Abbott (13:32):
I think there definitely are limited mindsets,
to begin, you know, one area isabout, I emphasize the
importance of curiosity.
When you have been an expert allof your career, people come to
you for answers.
It's not as easy to changepositions and be the one who
(13:57):
doesn't know, who's now Enteringsomething really new and scary
and you are, you're having to bethe person seeking help or
seeking answers and who do youeven go to where you're not,
where you're willing to let yourguard down enough to ask.
Kathleen Mundy (14:20):
Yeah.
Be a little vulnerable in theprocess.
Ida Abbott (14:22):
That's right.
it's very hard because we'retaught to be confident and to
know.
The answers and we can workwithin the framework of what we
do every day within legalframeworks, I can go to trial
every day and fight andeverything else and know exactly
what's expected.
(14:43):
Whoops.
Sorry.
And know exactly what'sexpected.
But, when I go home.
That's wide open.
There are no rules, and that isa much scarier thing.
So when I'm talking to somebodyabout facing another 30 years If
(15:08):
I'm not going to be a lawyer forthe next 30 years, or maybe I
will, but I'm not going to be inthis firm doing what I'm doing
in the position I am, what isthis new thing going to be?
And lawyers tend to also be riskaverse.
And so it's not like they're,happy to go jump off, jump, on a
(15:31):
parachute, get into a plane andjump down.
some of them do, many of themare, and certainly there are a
lot of lawyers who take a lot ofrisk and many of them are very
entrepreneurial and, uh, It'snot, I'm not talking about this
as a universal situation at all,but for a lot of people, the
(15:51):
thought of what, this next 30years could be longer, could be,
who knows, could be a week, istoo, is scary.
And I don't want to deal, thisis what I know, I don't want to
necessarily walk into somethingwhere I don't know any of the
rules.
Yasmin Nguyen (16:08):
Yeah, it's.
It's scary to not know what's onthe other side, and I'm curious
from your personal journey, butalso in having conversations
with various different legalprofessionals.
there stories of people who havehad a very successful,
fulfilling experience on theother side of their career, as
(16:31):
well as stories that you'venoticed of those who are
struggling with that transitionthen?
Ida Abbott (16:38):
Of course there are loads of them.
A lot of people are very happyto retire.
They can't wait to retire,right?
They have a million plans orthey have a plan or they have
something they want to do orthey're just, they're done.
They're ready to move intowhatever's out there.
That's a pleasure, right?
(16:59):
Those people are fun and you cantalk to them, work with them.
They don't really need a lot ofhelp.
They've got it.
They've thought it through, but,but they're not the general
rule.
Kathleen Mundy (17:11):
that just, it inspired me to be a little
curious about this point ofview.
If you could share a story withus where your client had a
breakthrough and working withyou made a difference in his or
her outlook for the next 30years.
Ida Abbott (17:30):
I actually had one that's the reverse of what
you're asking about,
Kathleen Mundy (17:34):
Okay, that's perfect.
Ida Abbott (17:35):
it's my favorite.
I had somebody call me who wasa, trust and estates lawyer.
And she had been in her firm.
She helped build the firm.
It was about, I don't know, 15,20 lawyers.
And.
She had been very successful,very happy, and now she wanted
(17:56):
to retire, and she was a little,she was very nervous about it,
and her anxiety was making ithard for her to even stay in
practice.
So we started to talk.
We had a very nice conversation.
When I asked her what it wasthat was all of a sudden, after
all this time, it sounded likethis was Very, relatively abrupt
(18:19):
and she told me that she'd beenworking on a case for a long
time on a with a client andSomebody got unhappy and there
was a lawsuit and so now it's inlitigation and the litigation is
making her so anxious and it'staking so much out of her that
(18:39):
she can't really cope now, trustin the States is not a conflict.
Bill field, it's probate, it'swriting wills, it's developing,
state plans and stuff.
So it's, I could understand whythis suddenly, sudden change
would be so upsetting to her.
And as we talked, I said to her,aren't there lawyers who
(19:01):
specialize in A state litigationor probate litigate all these,
in the litigation of theseissues.
And she said, yes, there are.
I said, is there anybody, whospecializes in that?
And she said, there's someone inmy firm.
I said, what if you transferredthat case to that lawyer?
(19:24):
And it was like one of these,why didn't I think of that?
And all of a sudden I could feelin her voice.
and I said, I said, when you'rereally ready to retire, she just
had a situation that shecouldn't cope with.
So we had that one session, andthat was it.
And I said, when you're reallyready, call me back,
Kathleen Mundy (19:46):
god.
Ida Abbott (19:46):
that was my favorite because it was a lot of times
people really don't know whatthe situation is.
And when you're coachingsomebody, when you're working
with somebody, helping themidentify what's really going on.
Is the key to the whole thing,because sometimes that's all it
takes is to turn it around.
But I have to say, most of thepeople I work with individually,
(20:10):
they're not as, they're not inas serious a situation as I've
been describing to you.
Most of those people don'tnecessarily seek help.
Even when it's offered.
that's why most of my work iswith the firms themselves.
(20:31):
and sometimes somebody will callme, but usually it's because
they have, they need someguidance.
They need to figure out how toapproach what's going on.
but I know there are a lot ofpeople who do seek coaches who
are much more, conventional intheir approaches and will, work
(20:52):
with them with instruments aboutretirement readiness, like some
of the things that you've you'reproviding and, they'll need to
go into it.
More deeply, but I found thatthe people I've been working
with anyway, most of them arenot, they're stuck, but it's not
that hard to help turn themaround with many people.
(21:14):
It's reframing, it's goingthrough the things that are
frightening them or holding themback and helping them understand
and see a way out.
Occasionally, some of myfavorites are working with
couples.
Because there are what I foundinteresting.
(21:36):
A couple of times I've workedwith clients.
who's, who have had problemsbecause they and their spouse
don't agree.
In fact, I worked with two womensimultaneously, where both of
them were married and one ofthem couldn't wait to retire.
(21:57):
she was very successful.
She was under so much stress.
Her last child was going tocollege.
Her husband had been a stay athome dad.
He did not want her to retirebecause.
Of what it was, what the impactwould be on their lifestyle.
(22:18):
He was, that's what worried him.
The other woman was a lawyer whowas at really her peak.
Her husband had been a lawyerwho retired a year or two
earlier.
He wanted to do things.
He wanted to travel and goplaces and, do a lot of things
with her.
(22:38):
And she wasn't ready.
And to me, those are interestingchallenges, helping them have
conversations.
And in my book, actually, thereare a lot of exercises for
couples.
To have with each other.
So that, to do with each otherthat facilitates a conversation.
Kathleen Mundy (23:00):
hopefully in alignment with outlooks as well.
Ida Abbott (23:03):
that's right.
Because, a lot of times I foundthat my clients will have made a
decision and they've come upwith a plan, but they're
assuming that.
Their partner is going to agree
Kathleen Mundy (23:18):
yeah.
Ida Abbott (23:18):
a deep conversation about it.
the example I give is that weboth want to travel and I say,
that's great.
What kind of travel?
And it turns out one, wants togo backpacking in the mountains
and the other wants to go firstclass, a cruise or something.
And so the words are the same,but the meanings are very
(23:39):
different.
And, so sometimes it's a matterof making sure they, they get to
the source of the challenge thatthey're having.
Yasmin Nguyen (23:51):
Yeah, Ida, you had mentioned a, exercises in
your book as well as reframing.
Is there a particular framework,exercise or experience that,
that you've either taken anindividual client through or
when you're working at the firmlevel, taking them through
that's really created some sortof breakthrough?
(24:12):
is there something that youcould share with us that, that
Has been a favorite tool,exercise, or experience that's
created a transformation forpeople.
Ida Abbott (24:22):
I don't have a particular exercise.
and it's very different when I'mworking with a leadership team
trying to figure out processesbecause they're dealing with
different issues.
Um, what I encourage them to dois to make sure they talk to all
of their partners and get,everybody's input before they go
off and come up with a policy.
(24:44):
young people, old people,everybody, cause they all have a
stake in it.
And if they all aren't buyinginto it, it isn't going to
happen.
But with an individual, my bookis based on the premise.
That's a framework for people touse called design thinking.
And so if, if we do more indepth work, I have them take the
(25:08):
book, go through it, not, pageby page, but to see where they
are in the journey, to see whatpart of it is most useful to
them.
And that's what we focus on.
but it's basically, it's designthinking, which is a different
kind of approach to planning.
To thinking through problems andcoming up with solutions.
(25:30):
It is easy to personalize it.
And I think this is somethingthat has to be personalized.
It's why I have a bias againstinstruments, even really good
ones, because I think a lot oftimes they make assumptions
about where people are and whatpeople who are retiring.
(25:51):
Are interested in, and a lot oftimes that's not really
relevant.
And I used myself as an examplewhere I was asked to, to test,
to try out something one time.
And when I got the results, theydebrief me and, I had flunked a
couple of parts of readiness andI thought, that's interesting,
(26:14):
so it turned out the two areas Iflunked were travel.
and volunteering, and I said, Itravel every day in my job.
I'm a consultant.
I'm on a plane all the time.
My family has always takenvacations, long vacations, like
sometimes two, three months.
I've, gone during work.
(26:36):
I've worked it out with my firm,so we always traveled.
I've been to almost all theplaces on my list.
Travel is not something I putoff.
And volunteering, I've been onnonprofit boards, and I've done
pro bono, I ran a pro bono work,the pro bono program in my law
(26:56):
firms, it was one of the largestin the country.
So I've always done that work.
I don't need to worry about howam I going to give back when I
retire, because it's just acontinuation.
Kathleen Mundy (27:09):
Right.
That's
Ida Abbott (27:10):
I said, so why would this, if you tell me that I
flunk these three areas, thesetwo areas, I immediately get on
the defensive.
I'm a high achiever.
You don't tell a high achieverthat they failed.
And, and this person who wasdebriefing me said, Oh, my God,
I never thought, and so I, thiswas several years ago, many
(27:31):
years ago.
I know the field has evolvedquite a bit since then.
But, yeah.
I've always felt that this isone of the most personal areas
and we, you can't make, I can'tmake assumptions about anybody.
I've been telling you about allthese general, things that I
(27:51):
see, the general behaviors andattitudes and feelings and
stuff.
But I don't assume that.
When I work with somebody
Yasmin Nguyen (27:59):
Mhm.
Ida Abbott (28:00):
because I have no idea where they're coming from
and it's up to them, to let meknow and for me to help them
figure it out, but there is noreason, especially for somebody
who's been very successful.
all their life, to be who's nowin a position where they're
feeling vulnerable.
The last thing I want to do isassume that I know something, or
(28:24):
I can help them because I'm theexpert in X, Y, or Z.
I think that's, that is acritical piece of it.
And why I like design thinking,because it's easy to jump in and
work with wherever you are.
at any point in the in thatwhole process,
Yasmin Nguyen (28:43):
Yeah.
Kathleen Mundy (28:44):
you're
Ida Abbott (28:45):
flexible.
It's very flexible andadaptable.
You can change it whenever youwant.
It's not like a plan that givesyou step a B.
C.
D.
Kathleen Mundy (28:54):
but it all evolves around the communication
piece, which you've outlinedseveral times through this
discussion today, and it reallybrings things home.
If you have alignment has tohappen only through the open
communication you have, and thefact that you are guiding it
through with questions andqueries in that process is
(29:15):
really beneficial to thoseparticipants.
Ida Abbott (29:19):
There's a piece even before the communication that's
just as important, and that isthe first step in the design
thinking framework in thatprocess is empathy, which in if
you're talking about yourself,it's self understanding, self
awareness, and it's really hardsometimes to have a effective
(29:44):
communication if you areclueless.
about what's really important toyou and what's driving you and
what you're afraid of and whatyou're strong at and what you're
looking for.
All the questions you need to beasked first before you can then
leap into what you want to do.
You have to start really with adeeper self understanding.
(30:07):
Communication with yourself,which in some ways for people
who have never done it, ispretty scary and difficult.
there are a lot of us who'vebeen asking those questions, our
whole lives and it feels verynatural.
and like you assume everybodydoes that, but they don't.
Yasmin Nguyen (30:26):
Wow.
That's so powerful.
Kathleen, did you have any finalquestions that we wrap up?
Kathleen Mundy (30:32):
Yasmin, as I'm listening to this, I made an
assumption that the people whowere starting this journey might
know themselves, but truth is,oftentimes they don't because
their career is consuming thatthey really haven't taken the
time to really understand whowe, who they are and what their
core values are, if they'veshifted and what they want them
(30:54):
to be in the future.
And Yasmin and I had aconversation about that.
Very topic this morning, and itjust came full circle, and I'm
so glad that you mentioned itbecause it's highly important to
us as we do this work.
Ida Abbott (31:09):
Absolutely.
And, you know, a lot of thepeople I deal with who are
lawyers, they've been working inat something that gives them a
lot of purpose, but isn'tnecessarily in sync with the
values they want to promote.
And this is a time, really, andI try to help them understand
(31:34):
that this is a time where ifthat's what you find, this is
where you can now bring yourlife into sync with the things
that are the most important toyou.
Kathleen Mundy (31:45):
Again, we had almost verbatim
Ida Abbott (31:48):
is that right?
Kathleen Mundy (31:49):
yes, we had this conversation just this morning.
And thank you.
Thank you.
Thank you so much for being sosuccinct in your descriptions
and your outlines to us today inour audience.
I'm sure they're going to gleama lot from
Ida Abbott (32:02):
Oh, thank you, Kathleen and Yasmin,
Yasmin Nguyen (32:04):
And one final question, Ida, how can our
listeners find and learn moreabout you and the powerful work
that you do?
Ida Abbott (32:15):
My website is IdaAbbott.
com.
there are links there to most ofmy work, to videos that they can
watch on YouTube for free, to,videos they can download of
other podcasts and, differentprograms, to articles and books
that I've written.
So you know, or they can callme.
(32:39):
They can email me, Ida atIdaAbbott.
com or, or call
Yasmin Nguyen (32:43):
Wonderful.
as we wrap up, are there anyjust final thoughts that you'd
like to share, Ida, with ouraudience or anyone who may be
considering retiring or maybe anorganization that's navigating
that with their teams?
Ida Abbott (32:56):
I think the important thing is to start
thinking about it.
Early to give yourself a lot oftime and I mentioned the design
thinking mindset.
About curiosity and tryingthing.
I don't know if I mentioned thataction orientation, not just
thinking about it, but doingthings.
But another one is collaborationand not to, you don't have to do
(33:18):
this alone.
There are there are coaches thatcan help you.
There are people who havealready retired that, you can
reach out.
They can tell you about theirjourney, what worked, what was a
problem, that kind of thing.
Get help.
And, talk to people about it.
Most people are happy to talk toyou about these things, but, a
(33:40):
lot of people hold back becausethey're afraid to talk about it
because they're embarrassed.
We don't, all the things that Imentioned earlier.
So finding people to work withand talk with, including your
spouse, is, your partner, that'simportant.
But start early.
(34:00):
Don't wait until the lastminute.
Kathleen Mundy (34:02):
Yeah, start early.
I think that's a key phrase.
Start early, know yourself andstart early in the
Yasmin Nguyen (34:09):
Wow.
what a gift to be able to spendthis time with you, Ida.
And thank you so much for notonly your wisdom, but your
contributions in so manydifferent ways.
And we're so grateful for thisopportunity to, Collaborate with
you and to be able to share animportant message for anyone
who's navigating thistransition.
Ida Abbott (34:27):
Well, Yasmin, thank you.
Thank you for, both of you, forwhat you're doing in this area
and all the people that you'reable to help this way.
and thank you for inviting me tobe part of that.
Kathleen Mundy (34:38):
Our pleasure.
Our pleasure.
Yasmin Nguyen (34:41):
Thank you for taking the time to join us
today.
If you enjoyed this episode orfound it valuable, please
subscribe, follow, and leave acomment or review on your
favorite platform.
If you have friends, clients, orloved ones who are retired or
thinking about retirement, weinvite you to share this show
with them.
Check out the show notes withlinks to resources mentioned in
(35:02):
this episode atRealRetirementShow.
com.
Remember, retirement is a joyfuljourney we get to experience
together.
Join us next week for anotherReal Retirement Conversation.
Popular Podcasts
Fudd Around And Find Out
UConn basketball star Azzi Fudd brings her championship swag to iHeart Women’s Sports with Fudd Around and Find Out, a weekly podcast that takes fans along for the ride as Azzi spends her final year of college trying to reclaim the National Championship and prepare to be a first round WNBA draft pick. Ever wonder what it’s like to be a world-class athlete in the public spotlight while still managing schoolwork, friendships and family time? It’s time to Fudd Around and Find Out!
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!