June 25, 2025 • 58 mins
What would happen if you could travel back in time and meet your younger self? In this captivating conversation with Amy Daughters, we explore the profound journey she took in writing her memoir "You Cannot Mess This Up: A True Story That Never Happened," where she imagines returning to 1978 and spending Thanksgiving weekend with her childhood family.
Amy reveals how inhabiting the same space with her energetic younger self transformed her relationship with her past. "If I'm not going to stand up for us, who's going to stand up for us?" she asks, capturing the moment she became her own champion. Through the creative device of time travel, Amy found healing wit wounds that aren't 'extreme' are still wounds – validating that ordinary family dynamics can leave extraordinary emotional imprints.
The most touching moments come through Amy's reimagined conversations with grandparents who had passed away before she reached adulthood. These scenes provided emotional fulfillment that transcended fiction, becoming "real" and ultimately changing her. Ann and Amy discuss how the book allowed Amy to understand her complicated relationship with her mother in a new light: "I knew she didn't like me, but somehow this book helped me realize that she loves me."
Amy addresses family secrets, unacknowledged incidents, and the pattern of "acting like it never happened" was just the climate of the 70's. Her journey demonstrates how revisiting our pasts with compassionate eyes can reveal sources of strength and support that were present all along, even when unrecognized.
The conversation takes an unexpected turn when we learn how writing this memoir sparked another powerful act of healing—Amy handwrote 580 personal letters to people from her life. It’s proof that when we make peace with our past, we often uncover new paths forward we never could have imagined. Her latest book, Dear Dana: That Time I Went Crazy and Wrote All 580 Handwritten Letters, is out now.
Ready to take your own emotional time-travel journey? Listen now and discover how loving your past self might be the key to liberating your present one.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
One of the things that you did that I loved, and I
regret that my dad had passedaway when I was 11.
So I never got to have.
Yeah, I mean it was a reallyhuge loss in my life, for you
know, he didn't walk me down theaisle, he didn't, he wasn't
around for me to get to know himas an adult and have any adult
conversations with him.
(00:29):
Really, and I loved that you,in this book, sat across from
your grandparents and had theseadult conversations with them.
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh, it was.
I mean, it was, you know, onepart magical, to imagine that I
could have that conversation,that I could be in a physical
realm as an adult person, andit's one of the most emotional
parts of the book.
And I think for a lot ofreaders it was one of the most
emotional, relatable parts ofthe book because, you don't know
(01:01):
, as a I mean, we all say thisis such a relatable part of life
.
But they're going to be with usonly a short time, the
grandparents, and then they'regoing to be gone and we'll
regret all the questions wenever asked them for the rest of
our lives.
It's such a part of the humanexperience that Generation One
up from ours, it is such a partof all of our human experience.
But to get that opportunity,even just to have the
(01:22):
opportunity to write it, was soemotionally satisfying because
there's a part of this book thatI feel like was real.
It was real because I wrote itand the emotional experience I
had and I had no idea that Iwould have that kind of
satisfying.
And the dog, for me, was soemotionally satisfying because
Cecil yeah, oh, thank you forremembering his name but they,
(01:44):
and then the, the for me when Ihad the conversation with myself
, my younger self, in thebedroom.
Those are probably the threepoints in the book that are so
emotionally satisfying.
Even though they didn'tactually really happen, they
changed me, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
There were times that I had to remind myself that
this wasn't real.
This was like a fiction thatyou went back in time because it
felt so real.
I wanted to ask you about yoursiblings too, because I mean,
there were a lot of dynamicsthat were going on with you as
kids and as adults.
So did you understand yoursiblings a little bit better
(02:19):
after writing this book?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I understood
the most well.
First of all, I got this rareopportunity to when I wrote them
as children.
I remembered them from thepictures and from what I
remembered of what we did, butseeing their adult selves in
their imagined child selves wasreally again satisfying and, you
(02:42):
know, wonderful.
But also I just gained thisappreciation that we'd done this
ride together, as different aswe are, you know, and we've come
fractured, just like brothersand sisters do, all over.
We seem to come apart and gettogether because we are so
completely different.
But that just an appreciationthat I've got to do the ride
with these two people and youknow what.
And then the appreciation forhow they approached the book
(03:04):
project as the greatest thingand they were just so proud and
happy and wanted to talk aboutit.
And I think you know thosedynamics, like even with my
mother, that it was hugely.
I forgot how supported andloved and celebrated I was, you
know, and what a gift that was.
And we're still different.
But the book has become a familybook and, um, okay, you know
(03:27):
we're, we're proud of it.
Now there's the kids.
We all have kids and my sisterdoesn't have kids, but my
brother and I do, as they'vegotten old enough.
Each of them has read it.
Uh, my son, who just he's afreshman at LSU, he just read it
.
He just listened to it on hisway home from school for the
first time, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So yeah, that's so cool, you know well.
I believe that you are right inthe book when you say that
three people can be raised inthe same household and come out
with completely differentmemories, and we all have
different experiences with thesame parents and talk about
(04:03):
three different people raisedtogether in the same home.
You three and one of myfavorite parts of the book that
you kind of touched on earlierwhen you went to the mall and
you took each of you shoppingincluding yourself, shopping you
all got.
You took each of you to be ableto go to the store they wanted
(04:25):
to, to get the things that theywanted to, to have the
experience that they wanted to.
Why did you choose what youchose for each of them?
And I'm really curious why youchose what you did for yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Right.
Well, I really tried to be trueto what I thought each person
would want, based on what Iremember they wanted and then,
of course, based on what I knowthey want now.
But you know, that whole scenewas written because and I hate
to give her credit my sister Kim, who doesn't have any children,
she, every time one of our kidshas a birthday, she takes them
(04:59):
to the store they want to go toand she buys them what they want
.
So that was totally a tip of thehat to my sister, that's what
she does, and so that was theinspiration for that and then,
plus, it got me in the malllonger and I liked the whole
mall scene.
You know I love the nostalgiaand the differences and that you
know, the mall in the seventieswas about the greatest thing
(05:19):
that could ever happen to you.
Yeah, you know, and so I wantedto.
I wanted to write that but Iyou know the things that you
know Kim selected the, the Kstick pen because hers was going
to be all about fashion andgoing through the Sears catalogs
.
I had forgotten about the stickpens and I knew she would want
whatever it was was the thing,and that was the thing in 1978.
(05:39):
Okay, and Rick loved Star Warsand actually in a Houston
newspaper that was an actual admeet Chewabaca at the Greens
Point, jcpenney or whatever itwas.
So I wrote that in based onfact.
That was part of my researchand then.
So we did that and then minethose things are true about me
and unfortunately I likeprocessed meat, logs and fake
(06:02):
cheese and I always wanted to goto Hickory Farms and that's a
lot of people's favorite scene.
You know, I always wanted to goto Hickory Farms as a kid and I
never went.
And then I love football.
I ended up writing aboutfootball and I didn't see that
at the time and I would havecompletely been up in the
helmets and the bumper pooltables, and so I wrote that
whole thing true.
(06:22):
All those things that weselected were true to who we are
as kids, and I actually got Kimand Rick for Christmas after
the book came out.
I got them the items they gotat the mall as as uh, and my
brother got me a big meat log,so the Yardo beef.
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Oh my gosh, that is so fun.
I love that.
Yeah, and you do talk.
You mentioned the Pro FootballHall of Fame in your book.
I go past it all the time.
I see it every week.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I've been twice and we got to go to the induction
three years ago.
That's where we went for our30th anniversary.
Everybody else went to Hawaiiand we went to Canton, loved
every minute of it.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Well, we go to the parade every single year, okay
and yeah, and we go to a lot ofthe happenings.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It's a beautiful facility.
Now it's grown too.
I know where there's a wholelot more.
They're building more whereit's going to be like a
entertainment destination asopposed to just the Hall of Fame
.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, it is huge, it's fun.
Also, I wanted to touch on thismemory.
Well, I wanted to know if itwas a memory or if it was
something that you needed towrite, and that was about the
Bonanza scene and when you werethere with your dad, because
every other scene in the bookthis was so different to me.
(07:47):
Your dad seemed happy, more joy, like he wanted to go out to
eat, he wanted to be a part withthe family, and I didn't catch
that in any other part of thebook.
So I was just wondering if thatwas an experience that you had
or if it was one that you needed.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Just wondering if that was an experience that you
had or if it was one that youneeded.
Boy, that's a great question.
No one has ever said to me yourfather was I'm really going to
have to think about this that Iportrayed him different in that
scene.
I'm going to write that down.
No one's ever.
So.
Thank you for that.
I don't know if it's not from amemory, because that's how dad
acted, because it was such a bigdeal when we went out to dinner
(08:24):
that he would have made such abig deal out of it, and he liked
to do the whole thankful thing.
So maybe I let him run thatscene.
He was living when I wrote thescene, though, but maybe it was
something I needed to do, and Idon't know if it was
subconsciously that I wanted tocelebrate him in that scene,
because I, you know, the wholefocus had been on mom throughout
(08:45):
the book, and then, I wanted toshow that in dad.
That is such a great question,anne, and I don't know that I
have a definitive answer.
I have to think about it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That was the one where your dad stood out the
most to me in the book RightRight.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, that's interesting and he.
But he liked to do the wholearound the table thing and my
mother hated it and I and Iwrote that to the siege.
Like Dick, I'm fine, you know,like shut it down, but and and I
think that had dinner tablevibes which I did a little bit
of.
How?
Cause, you know, we all satlike a lot of people did in the
seventies.
We sat down every night andeveryone sat down in their place
(09:21):
and it was kind of somewherebetween like very warm and
friendly and like this is atotal.
You know, like anything couldhappen, like this is the most
dysfunctional thing anybody'sever been to.
And also, yay, this iswonderful.
But I think that maybe that wasme showing how he acted at the
dinner table, because we onlyhad, I think, breakfast at the
(09:42):
actual table in the book andthat was dinner, dad too, and so
maybe that's what I was, maybethat's one of the things I was
highlighting.
So I made that scene biggerbecause that's how he would act
it at a table with all of ussitting around it.
Well, it was a good scene,thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And it also made me realize how expensive things are
today, versus $14 for a meal.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Right and all those prices were.
I mean, that's all research,but that's you know.
So all that was completely.
It's like the you know thescene, the go meet Darth Vader
scene in the mall in Houston.
That was a lot of it's based onfacts you know and then Sure.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I knew that.
Yeah, I could feel that you,with your memories, talking
about memories, you bring up areally good point when you talk
about staying in the badmemories versus good memories,
and where do you find yourselfmost of the time?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
in the better memories and it's another gift.
And I just never would haveexpected, when I sat down to
write my funny little book, thatit would have this kind of
emotional ramifications on memuch less someone who read it,
which would have been totallyout of my mind.
But I think, because I'm goingthrough this process, I I think
it is.
It has shifted my perceptionwhere I.
It has shifted my perceptionwhere I.
(11:08):
I try to stay in the, in the,in the good memories more, and I
also try to look at memories asmalleable.
And I and I rely on my memorystill because I have a great
memory.
I have a better memory than mybrother and sister and they
would admit that.
But that doesn't mean the wayit all went down is completely,
a hundred percent factual and Ithink there's a lot of hope in
that and I think there's a lotof almost emotional freedom in
that, like I don't have to beanchored to that anymore all the
(11:30):
time, like it happened, butthat doesn't have to be the
anchor for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Well, you do bring up the point in the book that you
know those tough things thathappen to us, that when does it
get to the point where we talkand talk about things and then
we realize that it did happen,but the realization that talking
about it makes it worse after awhile.
So, and we're all different inhow we deal with our trauma and
(11:56):
how we talk about it.
But I do know that we can reacha point where it is not healthy
to revisit and revisit and it'shealthy to pick up and move on
and figure out a new way to move.
Did this book help you do that?
It seems like it did.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
And I think what you said is soimportant that threshold is
different for each human being.
You know, each of us have adifferent threshold, for you
know when we're ready to say,okay, that happened, that was
bad, but I'm going to, I'm goingto, I'm going to move forward
now, and I don't think it's evendone in a definitive way or an
absolute way.
(12:30):
I think it's just doneemotionally and then we're just
ready to go to the next thing.
I love the line in the book andthis just made me think of it
but it's like the baggagecarousel at the airport you take
the bags on and off, and takethem off again and put them on
and at some point you know it's.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
it just goes around, around, around again until you
walk away from it, get thoseluggage off the carousel and
then go off and move on.
And we need to do that.
At times we have to and I feltthat with your book.
(13:09):
It felt so healing to me insuch a creative way and it
wasn't like the normal boringway of revisiting our life.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Wow, that's very humbling.
I will say that as I've rereadthe book.
You know, I think this is verycommon for anyone who's written
a book or written anything.
You are being creative aboutanything.
You look back a certain partyou're like, ah, you know, I
can't believe I said that, but Ithink the thing I'm the
proudest of is how the book goes.
It'll get kind of deep and thenthere'll be some humorous zap
(13:43):
right right behind it.
I like that and I think that'swhat life is like, though you
know, we, we live through thingsthat are real and hard and then
someone makes us laugh.
You know there's such, there'ssuch value in that and we forget
that.
You know we can be that to eachother, you know, and that's so
important.
You know levity is so importantand uh, because it keeps things
(14:06):
in perspective and that's whowe could be to each other as
adults who have experienced, youknow, this incredible, messy,
screwed up, beautiful life.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I want to ask you about your mom.
Did she have a hard timereading herself in the book?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I cannot imagine Mom and I have discussed it but we
haven't had like a in-depth likewe.
We we touch on it, you know,and I I know that she cause I
the epilogue is true I did goand talk to mom, you know, I did
go and have that conversationwith her and we did not agree on
everything.
We both cried, which we, whichneither of us cried ever, and we
(14:46):
walked away, at least living inthe land of honesty.
And my mom has chosen, at leastin her conversations with me,
to focus on the parts of thebook that she felt seen and
valued.
And she's focused on thosethings and maybe with her
friends she said oh my God, Ican't believe she said all that,
(15:11):
but I think she's.
I what my perception of whatshe's done with it is, she's
done what dad said in the text.
So we don't talk about thosethings and she's good with that
and she's fine with with notdiscussing those things, at
least with me, and I know shehasn't discussed them with my
brother and sister, but she hastold me stuff like I liked when
you said dad's a great guy buthe's the right guy for me.
(15:32):
You know where's mom's ladiesnight out.
She liked it when I said youknow she's living this beautiful
life, but is this the life shewanted?
She liked when I said mom wantedto be a writer but she didn't
have the opportunities wanted.
She liked when I said momwanted to be a writer but she
didn't have the opportunitiesthat I did, because I think mom
saw herself seen as a woman andas this you know, amazing
individual who was captive toher time period, which was
(15:54):
absolutely the truth.
And I think she liked havingher mother being seen as this
negative force, you know, inthis backhanded kind of way in
her life, and I think she'schosen, at least with me, to
focus on those things.
And then she also I mean thisis personal, but she has
apologized to me several timessince the book came out, and not
(16:18):
in a specific way, but she saidstuff like I know I did stuff I
shouldn't have done.
I know I did things and I'mlike Mom, we're good, you know,
and so she has.
So I guess that's her reactionto what the book brought out and
what it didn't say, becausethat's all in there under the
surface.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I mean that's actually beautiful.
And what about your siblings?
Have you been able to revisitwith them and say you know, why
did we act like nothing washappening in the house?
I mean it wasn't extreme, butwhatever it was at the time, why
was it just ignored and movedon?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
like nefarious, like like it's, because it's not big,
nobody's going to deal with it,and so it just seems like
everything's perfect and it'sfine, you know Right.
But but they, they, both, theywere, I think they were both, or
especially my sister.
My brother and I have discussedit less.
He's assessed it in the contextof one of his children's
relationship with his wife, buthe, you know, my sister, was
surprised that she knew some ofthe negative components of my
(17:28):
relationship with my mother, butshe was surprised at the
breadth of it Because I actuallyshared with her, you know, more
details and she was absolutelyjust dumped out in and upset,
very highly upset about it, andbecause her reality was
different than mine, I didn't gointo her room and talk to her
about it, you know, and itdidn't happen in front of other
people, and so I think she wasshocked and very as my big
(17:50):
sister, I mean as jealous as Iwas at her, she had my back, you
know.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Okay, okay, you know well, every family has secrets,
and you're right.
And it doesn't have to be ahuge life altering situation in
order for it to affect who weare as individuals for the rest
of our lives.
Why, you know, it is thoseunderlying hidden secrets, those
things that are not said, thosedynamics within the family that
(18:16):
shape us, that are not healthy,that no one mentions.
And these are the stories thatare not normally written about.
And I'm so glad that you didthat.
Because is that why you addedthat twist to the time travel
too?
Because I have to say I thinkthat everyone should read this
book, because these storiesthey're not the ones that are
(18:39):
often told and it is that kindthat hits people where they live
.
You know more people where theylive.
So many people don't have thoseextremes.
And I think that time traveltwist actually kind of made it
more fun in a way, where we wereinvited into most people's
lives.
Most people's, you know not theextremes lives.
(19:00):
Most people's, you know not theextremes, right?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I think that's a great observation, you know, and
for me the time travel was whatI want to do.
So and it ended up being, likeyou said, this great, you know
connector, you know a device to,rather than just remembering it
, to relive it, you know, andthen that's so relatable, the
whole thing is so relatable.
And whenever I talk to somebodyabout it, even when someone
(19:28):
hasn't read the book.
You know you're an exceptionbecause you read it, and I mean
you read it with great attentionto detail.
But you see the click, click,click, click, click and all that
is is male, female, it doesn'tmatter age.
What would I do if I went backto my 10 yearyear-old self?
And my kids have told me that Ithought myself back to my
10-year-old self and I was onlyhow many years removed from that
(19:49):
.
But that's the immediatetakeaway.
Is I put myself in thatsituation and what happens?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I loved how you said just because it wasn't a case of
extremes doesn't mean it didn'thappen.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Right right?
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, because we're so quick to minimize our pain
when it's not extreme.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Right and we compare our.
You know, I have a dear friendwho lost her son to cancer at 15
.
And she tells me all the timeyou cannot not share your stuff
just because you don't think it.
Do that with me because you'recomparing it right away to my
(20:33):
son's death.
She said that doesn't take awayfrom your experience being a
real experience that has had aprofound impact on you.
But I think social media hasdone nothing, but it accelerates
that thought because we look onsocial media for the extreme.
We hear the extreme stories.
That's what's shared and so wethink if we don't have something
extreme, it's not worth sharing.
(20:55):
And and I like what you saidthis book is just, it's kind of
there's not right words for itanymore, not normal, not
suburban, you know, but it'sjust like you said, for most
people, for a lot of people,it's relatable.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Um, that makes it powerful in a backhanded way.
Yeah, I mean it was a very hardtime for her.
But my daughter, talking abouttrying to relate in a way where
you know your pain might not beas bad as somebody else's and
you don't really want to shareit Well, my daughter wanted to
relate so badly in a way that wedidn't know that she did.
(21:47):
And she was holding my friend'shand in the hospital and she
said I know I had a cold once.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
The hospital and she said I know I had a cold once
and it was.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
she was only like three or something and it was
just so adorable yeah soadorable.
It was her way of trying torelate to her pain and meet her
where she was, and I mean wejust need to be who we are in
the moment and not be afraid.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
And there's such a humanness in that, though,
because that was born completelyout of love and concern.
Exactly, you know, and itwasn't.
It's not about you know.
That's one of the things I'velearned from my friend who lost
her son.
It's not about the right words.
You're not going to have theright words for something like
(22:36):
that or for a lot of differentsituations.
We don't have words to meetcircumstances.
You know.
It's about the presence of yourlittle girl holding that
woman's hand, you know, and themost powerful thing I can do for
my friend who lost her son isjust show up and hold her hand.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, that's exactly right, and sometimes just be
quiet with them and that's allthey need.
No-transcript.
(23:15):
We could have thought thatabout you if you really did.
Did you really do your Barbie'shair with a chemistry set?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, well, I did all kinds of things, anne, and I
don't like to put hair on thepodcast, but no, I did get the
chemistry set up in therebecause I was trying to do
something with it and I didn'treally blow it up, but that's a
good.
I love that whole scene whereshe's sewing her the stuff in
her bedroom you know all of hercollections and she's she lays
back on the bed.
These are the finest dice knownto mankind.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I mean, that's, that's good stuff, you know, oh
it was I, what I, you know, whatyou showed, every aspect of
little Amy, the good, the bad,ugly, the funny.
And I also wanted to ask you,because you said that your mom,
she was the mom that God gaveyou for a reason, and did that
(24:04):
realization shift for you duringthe book?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Oh, absolutely Absolutely, Because I was a mom
when I wrote the book and Iwatched and I also saw.
You know, I always gave dad allthe credit, you know, dad, dad,
dad, dad, dad.
But mom's the one who set me upfor a lot of real things, you
know.
And mom, in trying to keep me,dad, just let me be me.
And mom also, you know, helpedme survive, you know, and she
(24:31):
absolutely was the mom she wassupposed to be, Because she
realized the reality of life.
Dad was more of likeeverything's going to work out
fine, this is going to be great,you know.
And mom was more like she waslike you asked what I would.
You know my reaction to myyounger self as she sat across
from me.
Well, dad was the person on oneshoulder going go, Amy, you
know, go, take all your clothesoff and run naked across the
(24:53):
house.
And he wouldn't have said that,but per se, but he was
supportive of the football side.
All the things I did that werekind of.
He was like she's fine, Sue,she's fine.
And mom was the one on theother side, the other shoulder,
saying hey, we got to fit inbecause we got to survive this
whole thing.
So I think, as much as mommight not have liked me, she
loved me.
She loved me.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
She loved me enough to try to help me to survive the
rest of my life, and that was agift, but I could have not ever
seen that I don't know whatI've seen it without the book.
I don't know, I have no idea,but I definitely would not have
felt it to the depth that.
I feel it because I knew shedidn't like me, but somehow this
book made me realize that sheloves me.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I mean, though, every child wants their mom to like
them, right, yeah, and I thinkthat that's well those of us
who've had that experience.
We look for that in someoneelse, like we want someone to be
our champion.
You know another female personin our life who will, you know,
mother us or whatever it iswe're looking for, you know, and
then we'll probably reject thattoo.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, one of the things that I think that really
got you through.
It felt like I mean, you readtwo Bibles every night and the
Green Bible was very special toyou.
The spiritual thread in yourstory is so quiet yet profound.
What role did faith play inyour healing journey?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Oh, I mean absolutely .
I mean it's my personal faith.
I did see, though, when I wrotethe book that you know, I
thought that God had kind ofshowed up in my life in my 20s
or when I went to college, youknow.
But I did see, in rememberingthe Bible which I still have and
it's in my box from when Iwrote the book I did see that
(26:35):
God showed up for me earlierthan I thought God did, and I
remember reading that stuff, butI realized that had a huge
impact on me before I everacknowledged that it did.
I was just doing what you know,probably what I thought they
wanted me to do in church,because I was kind of a.
In one way I wasn't a rulefollower, but in another way I
was completely a rule follower,and I think that was God just
(26:56):
showing up for me at a veryearly age and me not seeing that
.
And I did go look at thatpicture of Jesus holding the
girl's hand and the hand on theboy's shoulder, and I felt very
physically and emotionally drawnto that as a child, and I think
that there's an absolute reasonfor that, because God was there
and I didn't even know it.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, you wrote.
Little Amy didn't know a thingabout the challenges of religion
the simplicity of gracecombined with the absolute
complicated nature of it, thedouble standards that mixed
unconditional love with strictrequirements, harsh judgment
with hypocrisy, and totalinclusion with exclusivity.
Feeling unloved not by God butby God's people, which, by the
(27:44):
way, I understand 100%.
Amen, amen, amen.
Not being capable myself ofloving all God's people, judging
being judged.
In Amy's heart and soul therewas no room for any of this.
As idiotic, lost and naive asshe seemed and she was, her
(28:05):
grasp of what was real wastremendous.
If faith were real, she had it.
Unsoiled, unspent belief,formed in the face of real life,
not some sort of milky whitechildhood fantasy land.
I mean, I loved it.
I just I wrote it down when youwere an adult, telling your
(28:27):
younger self that you believe inhim too.
I mean, come on, that was amoment for me.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh, I mean, and just having you read that back, I
mean that was obviously areflection on my adult
experience as someone whobelieves in God, obviously, you
know.
But to see that, I mean to seethat faith in my young self, I
mean that had to have a profoundimpact on me and probably
changed my relationship with Godagain.
Because I was like, wait, youshowed up at the beginning and
wait, this doesn't have anythingto do with all these other
(28:58):
people, this has to do with meand God.
So there's another aspect ofthe book that changed me, I'm
sure.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, I mean you wrote if I couldn't love her,
meaning little Amy, who would?
I mean the gift that you gaveyourself, the most important
gift that you gave yourself waslove.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Right and accepting.
Yeah, I love that scene in themall when I'm in the sporty
goods place and I feel like thatguy, the salesman, is judging
little Amy and I get all upsetabout it and I say that if I'm
not going to stand up for us,who's going to stand up for us?
You know, if I'm not going tostand up for myself, who's going
to stand up for me?
And I think by that I meantlike if I'm not going to just
(29:38):
accept myself for the girl whowanted the helmets and the
sports bag and the bumper pooltable and the sausage log, then
who else is going to do it?
And does that even reallymatter if I can accept myself
for this screwed up,well-intentioned messy?
Yet you know, okay individualwith a bunch of quirks.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
I want to take us to probably one of my favorite
parts of the book.
It was so deep for me, by theway, and so I want to read this.
The truth was that I was anawkward child.
An awkward, graceless,uncoordinated, angry girl who
was difficult to love, mostly byherself, mostly by her adult
(30:22):
self.
Was she unlovable because ofthe freak she was?
Or instead, was she a freakbecause she wasn't loved?
Did she throw herself down thestairs in the middle of the
night just to see if anyonewould come and check on her?
Because there really wassomething wrong with her,
something dysfunctional, or as areaction to what was going on
(30:43):
under the surface in the house?
That actually happened.
I was there.
Did they ever discuss it?
Because they never talked aboutit with me?
Were they worried?
Or did they, like certainpeople who hallucinated, drank a
lot, almost got raped, just actlike it never happened?
How deep did this all go, andwhat parts was I not remembering
(31:05):
?
Wiping my eyes on the leg of apolyester pantsuit hanging over
my head, I realized that thereally screwed up part of the
whole business was that everyonewas going to forget about all
that.
Yeah, there would be picturesof the actual events and the
sharp flashes of memory becausethey were real, but still
(31:27):
everyone would forget becausethat was the thing to do, it
wasn't on purpose, it was humanand who wanted to go through
life with all those memories intheir head anyway?
Maybe the luckiest people werethose who couldn't remember.
Eventually, thankfully, I layin the fetal position on the
floor and passed out slobbermoistening the gold shag surface
(31:50):
.
Sometime before dawn I awoke,opened the door to the closet
and crawled over to the bed.
It was quiet.
I awoke, opened the door to thecloset and crawled over to the
bed.
It was quiet and I felt sick.
I began to question myself,almost completely subconsciously
why did I let myself drink somuch?
Idiot.
Why did I cry like that andfall asleep in the closet?
Idiot.
Why did I go outside at theparty?
(32:11):
Total idiot.
It was my fault, all my fault,but at least I didn't drunk,
post on Facebook or text a bunchof people.
At least there was that.
As I drifted off, I thoughtabout how lucky people were 30
years ago not to have theinternet.
I just want to say what theheck I mean.
(32:32):
There was so much in this.
Put me in this moment.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, that's a lot.
There's a lot there, you know,and I think that the buildup of
writing everything I wrote uptill that point comes out right
there.
And you know, and theobservations, and you know,
spending that time in my ownimagination in that circumstance
, and I think I'm being reallyalmost too honest there, you
(32:59):
know, to the point where it'salmost painful to hear, because
that's my real inner monologueespecially, I mean the whole,
and I had never I mean this isthe crazy part, anne I had never
told anybody and no one hadever said anything to me about
to throw myself down the stairs,which was true, that's a true
thing.
That happened and I think Irealized in writing all the
(33:23):
stuff I wrote up to this pointand, being a mom, that no one
ever addressed that.
I remembered it and I don'tthink I was even trying to be
dramatic.
I mean that is a freakingdramatic passage, you know, and
but that happened and no one,and then no one, ever said
anything.
No one ever said a word aboutit.
Dad would come up the stairsbut I would already be in my bed
(33:44):
and I'm sure I was heavybreathing and he just acted like
it wouldn't happen and then hewent back down the stairs and
they never said anything.
You know, and I think that Imean I wrote the part where I
drank and then gone upstairs andlaid the feet on position in
the closet because I realizedthat if I had was actually to
live through this whole thing, Iwould be at a point of
(34:06):
completely emotional overwhelm,like too much, like I can't
handle anymore, cause that'sright after my mom and dad and I
are drunk in the roomdownstairs and say goodnight to
each other, my mom holds me inher arms and tells me how much
she loves me.
You know how loved I am and andI think it just too much, it was
too much to write it by, toomuch to hear it again.
(34:26):
I'm not saying you shouldn'thave read it, I'm saying that's
just a lot, you know.
And so I think that's areaction, all that honesty and
all that analyzation, you know.
And then that inner monologueis the classic over-served inner
monologue.
Blame it all on yourself, butwe don't have the internet, you
right, which is a great line Ilove because I would have been
(34:50):
even more messed up if I wouldhave had facebook back then.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Oh a hundred percent A little.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Amy was well-served not to have it.
Um, you know, as was Sue,probably would have been my
mother probably would have beenmore like some of her own
personal stuff would have beenharder with, with her mom and
her looking on Facebook, youknow, and Kim would have been
okay, but Kim would have beeneven more.
I mean, she would have beenokay but it would have been hard
(35:15):
on her and Rick wouldn't evenknow anything was going on.
But you're right, though, Imean, and it was lucky she
didn't have it, it's a goodobservation.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
You wanted to save your younger self from your
future pain when you drank toomuch in college and slashed your
wrist.
You didn't want to die, but youdid want someone to acknowledge
the pain and it feels like, andyou can tell me if writing the
book helped you acknowledge yourown pain.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Oh yeah, 100%.
It validated a lot of things,not in writing a book and I
clearly did not actually go backin time, but I it's.
It's about taking, like takingit seriously, like letting my
mom off the hook because she didthe best she could, but also
that stuff actually happened andit had an emotional legacy that
was real.
You know, that was that wasreal and and it's back to what
(36:14):
we said, like I could compare mychildhood to a bunch of other
childhoods and my childhood wasmild, completely mild, you know,
compared to other things thathappened to people.
But that doesn't mean that itdidn't have a real impact.
Exactly that doesn't mean thatit didn't matter.
It doesn't mean there wassomething for me to be healed
(36:34):
from and freed from, regardlessof what anyone else thought
about it.
And that's maybe that's the thepower in this story, cause I
remember writing that scenebecause the editor I kind of
alluded to the cause thatactually happened in college,
that another real memory that Iobviously that was the hardest
thing to share in the book.
And I remember calling mycollege roommate and saying I
(36:56):
just wrote this scene about whathappened when we were in
college because she was myroommate at the time I was like
I don't even know what to do.
She's like this might be themost she said without it, you're
going to leave everybodyhanging.
You know, without it it becomesless powerful, the story
becomes less powerful.
And I just remember telling herI don't think I can do it.
And she's like well, you justgotta decide.
You're either gonna do it ornot do it.
And I did it and I, you know,put it in the back of my head.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
You were sexually assaulted in the book.
Why that was in the book backin time.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Right and a lot of people have asked that and more
people have told me that thatscene doesn't fit in the book
than anything else.
But to me it was a vehicle toshow how extreme the I'm not
going to tell anybody whathappened was from.
For a bunch of people in 1978and certainly myself, you know,
(37:46):
and I was not sexually abused asa child.
I had that exact scene happento me at another point in my
life, like in my late teens,outside of the house, and I
wanted to use that as I went inthe bathroom and brushed myself
off and act like nothing everhappened and I told myself in
the half bath I'll never tellanybody this and I 100% know I
(38:08):
wasn't going to tell anybodythat and I'll stand by that and
I just it was the extreme thatit showed, the extreme that
certain people in certainsituations are not going to tell
you what happened and we don'tknow what we think we know is is
not reality.
It's back to your quote aboutwhat's under that surface is
what's really going on here.
(38:47):
Right, right, yeah, I mean, andwe didn't talk about those
things back then, Right, or a 24hour news cycle where they look
for, you know, everything'shighlighted because you have to
fill all the hours.
You know and we didn't know.
We were supposed to be afraid,but then the legacy of not
(39:07):
telling something thatsignificant to another human
being, the legacy for the womenwe are today.
That's part of the story, youknow, and we're all holding onto
things.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
You are.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I am.
Just because I wrote a back intime book didn't mean I told
everybody everything.
And it doesn't mean I don't sithere and think, oh my God, I
can't believe I shared all that.
And if there's a part of methat doesn't understand how
logically I thought that was agood idea to share those things.
You know, like what in the hellwere you thinking?
You know you should have stuckwith man bulges and chest hair.
But I do think it is why thebook has resonated with people.
(39:42):
You know, and I guess I juststand by that.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Another thing was when you left in 1978, when you
left 1978 and left your youngerfamily for your new family, it
became really visual for me.
I saw you leave your young dadto your elderly father.
So what was that like for youwhen you wrote it?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Oh, it was, yeah, because I had felt like I'd gone
back in time, you know.
It just gave me a newappreciation and you used dad as
an example for dad.
I mean, dad was once this youngguy, you know, who was almost
the same person, but in adifferent shell and a younger
version.
And again it's almost likelooking back at my siblings and
(40:28):
having this appreciation forthem.
It made me appreciate that, dad, you know, and dad's place in
my life and mom's place.
It made me appreciate that dad,you know, and dad's place in my
life and mom's place, thatthey'd spent their whole life
doing nothing else but just tryto love me or contain me or
whatever it is they were tryingto do, you know.
But there was something likeit's like backwards nostalgia,
if that makes sense.
Like seeing dad as an old manwas almost nostalgic after
(40:49):
seeing him as a young man.
It's like a.
It's like a Right, right, right.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yes, I totally understand that and I felt that
in the book.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Right, right, it was like the golden age is now maybe
and we just didn't know it.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
The final note from your son to your younger self
was a gift.
Do you think that love reallycan fix everything?
Because apparently your son did.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Right.
I wonder if he still thinksthat, and that was an exact
quote from the application hefilled out for that summer camp.
He put that in there and so itwas, I think while I was writing
the book so it became easy touse.
I do.
I do believe that.
I do believe when, you know.
I mean there's a lot ofdifferent contexts for that.
(41:35):
There's self-love, there's lovefor our family members, our
children, our spouse, all thosethings.
And then there's love betweenpeople who, on the line, a lot
of those things that dictate,who we can't care about, begin
(41:59):
to dissipate.
And I do think that in thecontext of myself me seeing my
younger self as this yes, offthe chain, bowl-cutted, bad
glasses, freakazoid but meseeing her as someone who was
bold enough to live the way shefelt like she could live and had
all this energy and creativity,and me loving her for who she
(42:24):
was is absolutely life-changingMe loving my mother and seeing
her for who she was, absolutelylife-changing.
So in the context of all thosedifferent ways, I think love
really can, in its purest form,you know, unfiltered can
absolutely change anything, saveanything.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
And I also love that.
Your main message to yourselfthat you wanted to convey was
that, no matter what is going tohappen to you in the next
decades of your life, you'regoing to be okay.
Right of your life you're goingto be okay, and I think that's
a message for all of us to learnas we look at our childhood
self and, you know, go throughour decades.
I think consoling, validatingourselves, holding ourselves in
(43:05):
such an is an important messagein this book.
Do you think that little Amywould be proud of who you became
?
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Yeah, man that I I do .
I think she would.
There'd be a couple things shecalled me out on for sure.
I think she'd be like you know,why were you?
I don't know she would, I thinkit depends on, I think.
But after, before writing thebook, I think she'd definitely
have more stuff to say to methan after writing the book.
And as I have gotten oldersince I wrote the book okay, the
(43:35):
combination of book and age had, you know, I think age normally
I mean naturally frees us alittle bit, makes us think I
don't care anymore, you know,but I think my kids leaving the
house, that freed me even more.
So I think there'd be a lot ofthings she'd be proud of.
She'd probably still call meout on a few things if she was
sitting here right next to me, Ithink.
So, I really do.
But I think there'd be thingsthat she'd be like wow, like
(43:57):
that was pretty cool, you know.
And I think she'd think thesports writing and the Excel
spreadsheets, and I think she'dmeet my kids and she'd be like,
wow, I didn't even know we coulddo that, you know.
And I think that she would lookat the book about her and she'd
be like, wow, you know and Ithink she would some of the
accomplishments.
It's not even theaccomplishments, but some of the
(44:18):
accomplishments.
It's not even theaccomplishments, but some of the
things I've gotten to do.
She'd just be like we're badass, it's true, and I play golf
and I'm horrible at it.
But she'd be like get out thereevery time and if you quit, I'm
getting out of the cart and I'mtaking you home.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I mean, like she, she was, she's the better version
of me, though I loved yourconnection with her.
I mean I know you bought hermore presents than you did the
other two and I know that youkind of showed favoritism
towards her because I mean, youknow, your mom kind of thought
that it was because you neededit.
She needed it versus the othertwo, and I think that that was
accurate.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Right, right, yeah, and I love, I love and that's
all you know.
That's a reflection of how Ifelt getting to know her through
the narrative of the story, youknow, the reflection of I've
never thought about this, of megetting her more gifts.
And then there's a scene Iguess it's at the breakfast room
table that morning we wake upfrom like I really can't think
(45:16):
about it.
She's the most sane person atthis table, really, like the
rest of these people arefruitcakes, and I think it's
that you're seeing theprogression of me reconnecting
with her and being likecelebrating her rather than, you
know, running from her.
And that's what I love aboutthe bonanza scene, cause she
goes off the chain when she sayswhat she's thankful for, and
she's thankful for pantaloaloons, and she goes into this whole.
(45:38):
She doesn't stop, yeah shedoesn't stop and I like how I
called her the EF Hutton of theThanksgiving bonanza table, but
she, because everybody stops andlistens when she talks, because
she's going to do somethingstupid.
But I think all that is just areflection on how I feel about
myself in the journey of writingthe book.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yeah, Well, what would?
Speaker 2 (46:00):
you say to Amy, little Amy today, oh man, I
don't know, I'd give her thebiggest hug and I would just
thank her.
I think I would.
I'd thank her because I'd belike you know, I didn't see it.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
I didn't see it before but I see it now, you
know, and I'd thank her and I'dtell her I was how proud I was
of her, and I tell her that I'dspend the rest of my life trying
to honor who she was.
One of my favorite moments inthe book is when the note
appeared as an adult out of yourgreen Bible.
I wanted that so badly.
I waited and waited and hopedthat that would happen.
So I was really glad that thatwas a big connection for me.
(46:45):
It kind of came full circle.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
Right, I'm glad you said that, because you wonder
what readers you know think orhow you ended it, and it comes
very late, I mean like on thelast five pages, probably four
pages before it, before it comes, yeah, and the satisfying thing
is then you're left with athought of oh, it was real, you
know, and for me as the writerit was real.
(47:11):
I mean, the experienceemotionally is very real for me
and so the note I don't know italmost validates it for me
emotionally in a way.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Were, your memories changed after writing this book.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yeah, because I you know the perspective of and just
a realization that you know,memories are malleable depending
on who's doing the memory.
So so though, I think Amy'smemories, little Amy's memories,
were absolutely little Amy'smemories.
But now I look at every memorythrough a different lens,
because now I have had thisexperience where I can turn
(47:44):
memories from 1988 on their headand I think it's probably
something I need to remember asI remember, I put it at the
forefront of that and not forgetthe experience of the book.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
You mentioned this in the book, how you kept people
at a distance.
Do you still do that?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I think less.
I think to a lesser degree, andI think that is because it's
back to the power of sharing astory and standing next to it
and owning it and that being andit is a hard transformation for
all of us who grew up duringthose time periods where
feelings were not discussed thatit's okay.
It's okay to talk about yourfeelings and you're not doing
(48:25):
anything wrong, and I thinkthat's something that's really
important to those of us whowere brought up that way.
And it was not done nefariously.
They were not telling us not totalk about our feelings because
they were bad people.
They were just living the waythey were taught.
Yeah, right, but that it's okaynot just to talk about our kids,
(48:46):
about their feelings, because Ithink that's the obvious outlet
, but to talk about ourselves,to talk about our own feelings,
and we're not being indulgent bydoing that Within the context,
like you said, of when is itokay just to walk away from it?
Right, right, because there'sall different kinds of little
nuances to that?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, I also have to ask this because I really wanted
to know if you went back to theintimacy of paper and pencil
after that, instead of thevulnerabilities of social media.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Well, that's an amazing question because you
know, this book didn't naturallylead to the next thing that
happened to me, but there'sstatements like what you just
said, and then I talk aboutthanking people and I need to
get pens and thank you notes.
That's a line later in the book, but I totally in an unplanned,
uncharted way, after this bookI got reconnected with an old
(49:36):
friend on Facebook and this is agirl whose son died of cancer
and I hadn't spoken to her in 30years and she was at St Jude in
Memphis and the cancer cameback and I sat down at my desk
to write one Monday morning.
It's like a lightning bolt hitme in the head I think it was
God, but everybody can put it intheir own context and I came up
with this idea I was going tostart sending this pair
handwritten notes while theybattled this cancer, and so I
(49:59):
started doing that.
I hadn't written anybody ahandwritten note in 30 years and
her son dies.
I keep writing her because Idon't know what else to do.
She starts writing me back.
We spent two years being penpals without any kind of
electronic communication, andthe experience was so profound
that I was like wait a second,if this can happen from this one
(50:25):
girl, what about these otherhundreds of people on Facebook?
So I ended up taking 18 monthsand I wrote 600 handwritten
letters to all these people andI wrote a book about that and I
speak about that.
So you just tied the two thingstogether by that question,
which is unusual.
But I can see shades of whathappened next in the story and
what I learned from the story.
You know, and I and that's sucha nugget of goodness for me to
have been asked that question byyou- I yeah, I wondered if you
(50:49):
really did write all thoseletters.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
So you really did.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Oh yeah, 100 percent.
It took 18 months and it waslike I didn.
When I decided I was going todo it because of what happened
with my friend Dana and her son,I didn't really think I was
going to finish.
I just like this is a greatkind of idea.
I'll just roll with it and seewhat happens.
But I say that.
But I felt completely investedin it enough to buy stationery,
but I thought 580 letters wasnot achievable.
(51:14):
But then once I'd written about30 letters, I was like wait a
second, and I didn't intend towrite a book about it, I didn't
intend to do any of that.
But I realized that this may bethe most important thing I ever
did in my life and it was likea freight train of good that I
almost couldn't hang on tobecause it was just too much.
But then, once I got over thehalfway point, people were
expecting their letters then andI realized again that this was
(51:36):
going to be probably the mostepic journey I ever.
Went on.
And so somehow, someway, Iwrote 580 handwritten letters.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Well, I think it's going to be my next read,
because you know you said thatif my life could be so changed
by someone I consider just aFacebook friend, what would
happen if I wrote all myFacebook friends a letter?
And you know, I mean like wemight think something like that,
but we don't actually do it.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
You did it, yeah, and I think that's.
That's a credit to Lil Amy,though to maybe a credit to
writing.
You cannot mess this up,because you know me seeing Lil
Amy as someone who was clearlynot afraid to do something crazy
.
You know, lil Amy, she wouldhave had an Amazon account.
She could have really blown theworld up.
You know she would have.
You know that's like.
The Facebook project was likeprocessed meat log from Hickory
(52:24):
Farms.
I mean, it was.
I'm just saying that it's.
You know.
And I think little Amy wouldabsolutely be proud of the
letter writing project.
You know, because it went rightup her alley.
She could have done it in heroffice there at the closet.
(52:44):
You know, she, there he goes,she.
But I, you know, and I'm soappreciative of this
conversation because I've tiedthose two stories together in my
head, but not to this degree.
So I appreciate that very much,Anne.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yeah, I wondered if there was some kind of
connection there.
Is there another time inhistory, another particular day
that you would like to go backto?
Speaker 2 (53:04):
You know, after writing this book, the first
thing I think is differentpoints you know in my own life
that I would like to go back to.
As somebody who loves history,I'd absolutely love to go back
to like 10 points, you know,just to walk through it and see
what it actually felt like andmaybe spend 36 hours or a couple
of days, and for me that wouldbe.
You know the post-war periodbetween World War I, world War
(53:25):
II.
You know maybe the fifties,when we're talking about what's
going on.
You know our moms were beingbrought up I think I'm older
than you but you know we're alot of the legacy of what we
lived in the 70s was being underand I would want to spend two
or three weeks then likewandering around or maybe in a
family inserted like that, andjust understanding some of the
(53:46):
nuances of the life.
You know that that that we livedand I don't know where I'd go
back to again in my own life.
You know, definitely I don'tthink I could handle my teenage
years, you know.
But I would like to see my kidsboth young again, because now
that I've just gone empty nest,you know I'm holding like I
realized that was one of thebest parts of my life and I knew
(54:07):
it at the time.
But there's no way you canemotionally, you know,
internalize all those feelingsof you, know how this is
exhausting, but it's the bestthing ever.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, I mean, life goes so fast and we just and
it's also so busy that you don't, by the time your head hits the
pillow at night, you don'trealize, and we don't hold on to
those moments.
I had a moment the other daywith my eight-year-old where we
were sitting at the zoo and he'sjust we're looking at the lions
and he's eating his dip anddots and I'm just like I just
(54:41):
want to freeze this moment,right.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
And you knew right then.
And you're, you knew and that'sthe thing we could we have.
We have moments, I think, wherewe know like this is the best,
this is.
I don't know that it's you know.
I feel that way now when I seemy kids, I'm like I just gotta
hold on to this, I gotta hold on.
But I'm having moments, and it'snot devastating or tragic.
It's such a normal part of lifebut it is, and it's like back
(55:07):
to what you said about under thesurface.
That's where real life is.
We just can't see it becausewe're busy doing all the things
that have to be done.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
Right, and it's kind of sad that we kind of just skim
over it as on the surface, andwe don't really realize how
important these moments are.
But when we break them down, Imean it's they become these
snapshots in time, you know, andthe photographs that we hold on
to.
But it's better to be in themoment than to look at them in
(55:38):
hindsight and remember and wishthat we would have enjoyed them
more.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
Right, and that's what's important about
conversations and about realtalk.
You know your podcast, becauseit definitely is.
You know I've got a lot tothink about, but hopefully
people are listening, hopefullypeople who are listening.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
You know this will help them wherever they are in
their journey, you know toremembering and thinking about
those things in their currentsituation, not just in the past.
Well, I can tell you, Amy, Ireally enjoyed this conversation
.
Speaker 2 (56:13):
How can people get a hold of you?
Do you have a website?
I do, it's amydaughterscom, andthat's everything about both
books about.
Of course, there's a bunch ofsilly stuff on there and you
know how to connect with me andI'd love I love to connect with
people, email, social media.
I have my mailing address onthere because I'm a proponent of
letter writing now, after allmy many letters, but yeah, and
(56:34):
I'd love to hear from anyoneabout anyone's thoughts, about
anyone, and I will say too, thisis one of the best interviews
I've ever had, especially aboutthis book.
I really appreciate howthorough it's been and you've
taught me things about my ownstory that I didn't know, so I
just am so appreciative, verysincerely, thank you.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Yeah, I'm going to have to read your Facebook one.
Maybe we'll have to do anotherone.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
I would love that and .
Speaker 1 (57:00):
I'm here for it.
Well, everybody, I just want tothank you for listening and I
just want to thank you for beinghere today, amy, you just
didn't write a book, amy.
You opened a portal for all ofus to walk through a
time-traveling, heart-repairing,laugh-out loud, healing journey
that proves maybe it did reallyhappen.
(57:21):
Please grab her book.
You Can't Mess this Up, a TrueStory that Never Happened.
And, trust me, you'll want yourown handy dandy notebook by the
end instead of postingeverything on social media.
Remember there is purpose inthe pain and there's hope in the
journey, and also love reallyis the answer, even when the
question is should I go back intime to find it?
(57:41):
We will see you next time.
Welcome back to Real Talk withTina and Anne.
I am Anne, and buckle up,because this isn't just part two
.
It's a continuation of thetime-traveling,
heart-string-pulling,laugh-out-loud journey with the
one and only Amy Wineland.
Daughters, if you missed partone, go back and grab your
fresca, your Jordache jeans andyour middle school diary,
(58:03):
because Amy took us back to 1978with her brilliantly crafted,
deeply personal memoir.
You Cannot Mess this Up A TrueStory that Never Happened.
But today we're diving deeperinto memory, into grief, into
healing and, yes, into themagical, messy beauty of
figuring out your family, yourfaith and your place in the
(58:23):
world.
This episode will make youlaugh, cry and maybe call your
dad after.
Let's go ahead and do this.
This is part two.
One of the things that you did that I loved, and I
regret that my dad had passedaway when I was 11.
So I never got to have.
Yeah, I mean it was a reallyhuge loss in my life, for you
know, he didn't walk me down theaisle, he didn't, he wasn't
around for me to get to know himas an adult and have any adult
conversations with him.
(00:29):
Really, and I loved that you,in this book, sat across from
your grandparents and had theseadult conversations with them.
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (00:40):
Oh, it was.
I mean, it was, you know, onepart magical, to imagine that I
could have that conversation,that I could be in a physical
realm as an adult person, andit's one of the most emotional
parts of the book.
And I think for a lot ofreaders it was one of the most
emotional, relatable parts ofthe book because, you don't know
(01:01):
, as a I mean, we all say thisis such a relatable part of life
.
But they're going to be with usonly a short time, the
grandparents, and then they'regoing to be gone and we'll
regret all the questions wenever asked them for the rest of
our lives.
It's such a part of the humanexperience that Generation One
up from ours, it is such a partof all of our human experience.
But to get that opportunity,even just to have the
(01:22):
opportunity to write it, was soemotionally satisfying because
there's a part of this book thatI feel like was real.
It was real because I wrote itand the emotional experience I
had and I had no idea that Iwould have that kind of
satisfying.
And the dog, for me, was soemotionally satisfying because
Cecil yeah, oh, thank you forremembering his name but they,
(01:44):
and then the, the for me when Ihad the conversation with myself
, my younger self, in thebedroom.
Those are probably the threepoints in the book that are so
emotionally satisfying.
Even though they didn'tactually really happen, they
changed me, yeah.
Speaker 1 (01:57):
There were times that I had to remind myself that
this wasn't real.
This was like a fiction thatyou went back in time because it
felt so real.
I wanted to ask you about yoursiblings too, because I mean,
there were a lot of dynamicsthat were going on with you as
kids and as adults.
So did you understand yoursiblings a little bit better
(02:19):
after writing this book?
Speaker 2 (02:21):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I understood
the most well.
First of all, I got this rareopportunity to when I wrote them
as children.
I remembered them from thepictures and from what I
remembered of what we did, butseeing their adult selves in
their imagined child selves wasreally again satisfying and, you
(02:42):
know, wonderful.
But also I just gained thisappreciation that we'd done this
ride together, as different aswe are, you know, and we've come
fractured, just like brothersand sisters do, all over.
We seem to come apart and gettogether because we are so
completely different.
But that just an appreciationthat I've got to do the ride
with these two people and youknow what.
And then the appreciation forhow they approached the book
(03:04):
project as the greatest thingand they were just so proud and
happy and wanted to talk aboutit.
And I think you know thosedynamics, like even with my
mother, that it was hugely.
I forgot how supported andloved and celebrated I was, you
know, and what a gift that was.
And we're still different.
But the book has become a familybook and, um, okay, you know
(03:27):
we're, we're proud of it.
Now there's the kids.
We all have kids and my sisterdoesn't have kids, but my
brother and I do, as they'vegotten old enough.
Each of them has read it.
Uh, my son, who just he's afreshman at LSU, he just read it
.
He just listened to it on hisway home from school for the
first time, you know.
Speaker 1 (03:42):
So yeah, that's so cool, you know well.
I believe that you are right inthe book when you say that
three people can be raised inthe same household and come out
with completely differentmemories, and we all have
different experiences with thesame parents and talk about
(04:03):
three different people raisedtogether in the same home.
You three and one of myfavorite parts of the book that
you kind of touched on earlierwhen you went to the mall and
you took each of you shoppingincluding yourself, shopping you
all got.
You took each of you to be ableto go to the store they wanted
(04:25):
to, to get the things that theywanted to, to have the
experience that they wanted to.
Why did you choose what youchose for each of them?
And I'm really curious why youchose what you did for yourself.
Speaker 2 (04:36):
Right.
Well, I really tried to be trueto what I thought each person
would want, based on what Iremember they wanted and then,
of course, based on what I knowthey want now.
But you know, that whole scenewas written because and I hate
to give her credit my sister Kim, who doesn't have any children,
she, every time one of our kidshas a birthday, she takes them
(04:59):
to the store they want to go toand she buys them what they want
.
So that was totally a tip of thehat to my sister, that's what
she does, and so that was theinspiration for that and then,
plus, it got me in the malllonger and I liked the whole
mall scene.
You know I love the nostalgiaand the differences and that you
know, the mall in the seventieswas about the greatest thing
(05:19):
that could ever happen to you.
Yeah, you know, and so I wantedto.
I wanted to write that but Iyou know the things that you
know Kim selected the, the Kstick pen because hers was going
to be all about fashion andgoing through the Sears catalogs
.
I had forgotten about the stickpens and I knew she would want
whatever it was was the thing,and that was the thing in 1978.
(05:39):
Okay, and Rick loved Star Warsand actually in a Houston
newspaper that was an actual admeet Chewabaca at the Greens
Point, jcpenney or whatever itwas.
So I wrote that in based onfact.
That was part of my researchand then.
So we did that and then minethose things are true about me
and unfortunately I likeprocessed meat, logs and fake
(06:02):
cheese and I always wanted to goto Hickory Farms and that's a
lot of people's favorite scene.
You know, I always wanted to goto Hickory Farms as a kid and I
never went.
And then I love football.
I ended up writing aboutfootball and I didn't see that
at the time and I would havecompletely been up in the
helmets and the bumper pooltables, and so I wrote that
whole thing true.
(06:22):
All those things that weselected were true to who we are
as kids, and I actually got Kimand Rick for Christmas after
the book came out.
I got them the items they gotat the mall as as uh, and my
brother got me a big meat log,so the Yardo beef.
So there you go.
Speaker 1 (06:41):
Oh my gosh, that is so fun.
I love that.
Yeah, and you do talk.
You mentioned the Pro FootballHall of Fame in your book.
I go past it all the time.
I see it every week.
Speaker 2 (06:53):
I've been twice and we got to go to the induction
three years ago.
That's where we went for our30th anniversary.
Everybody else went to Hawaiiand we went to Canton, loved
every minute of it.
Speaker 1 (07:05):
Well, we go to the parade every single year, okay
and yeah, and we go to a lot ofthe happenings.
Speaker 2 (07:13):
It's a beautiful facility.
Now it's grown too.
I know where there's a wholelot more.
They're building more whereit's going to be like a
entertainment destination asopposed to just the Hall of Fame
.
Speaker 1 (07:24):
Yeah, it is huge, it's fun.
Also, I wanted to touch on thismemory.
Well, I wanted to know if itwas a memory or if it was
something that you needed towrite, and that was about the
Bonanza scene and when you werethere with your dad, because
every other scene in the bookthis was so different to me.
(07:47):
Your dad seemed happy, more joy, like he wanted to go out to
eat, he wanted to be a part withthe family, and I didn't catch
that in any other part of thebook.
So I was just wondering if thatwas an experience that you had
or if it was one that you needed.
Speaker 2 (08:04):
Just wondering if that was an experience that you
had or if it was one that youneeded.
Boy, that's a great question.
No one has ever said to me yourfather was I'm really going to
have to think about this that Iportrayed him different in that
scene.
I'm going to write that down.
No one's ever.
So.
Thank you for that.
I don't know if it's not from amemory, because that's how dad
acted, because it was such a bigdeal when we went out to dinner
(08:24):
that he would have made such abig deal out of it, and he liked
to do the whole thankful thing.
So maybe I let him run thatscene.
He was living when I wrote thescene, though, but maybe it was
something I needed to do, and Idon't know if it was
subconsciously that I wanted tocelebrate him in that scene,
because I, you know, the wholefocus had been on mom throughout
(08:45):
the book, and then, I wanted toshow that in dad.
That is such a great question,anne, and I don't know that I
have a definitive answer.
I have to think about it.
Speaker 1 (08:55):
That was the one where your dad stood out the
most to me in the book RightRight.
Speaker 2 (09:00):
Yeah, that's interesting and he.
But he liked to do the wholearound the table thing and my
mother hated it and I and Iwrote that to the siege.
Like Dick, I'm fine, you know,like shut it down, but and and I
think that had dinner tablevibes which I did a little bit
of.
How?
Cause, you know, we all satlike a lot of people did in the
seventies.
We sat down every night andeveryone sat down in their place
(09:21):
and it was kind of somewherebetween like very warm and
friendly and like this is atotal.
You know, like anything couldhappen, like this is the most
dysfunctional thing anybody'sever been to.
And also, yay, this iswonderful.
But I think that maybe that wasme showing how he acted at the
dinner table, because we onlyhad, I think, breakfast at the
(09:42):
actual table in the book andthat was dinner, dad too, and so
maybe that's what I was, maybethat's one of the things I was
highlighting.
So I made that scene biggerbecause that's how he would act
it at a table with all of ussitting around it.
Well, it was a good scene,thank you.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
And it also made me realize how expensive things are
today, versus $14 for a meal.
Speaker 2 (10:04):
Right and all those prices were.
I mean, that's all research,but that's you know.
So all that was completely.
It's like the you know thescene, the go meet Darth Vader
scene in the mall in Houston.
That was a lot of it's based onfacts you know and then Sure.
Speaker 1 (10:20):
I knew that.
Yeah, I could feel that you,with your memories, talking
about memories, you bring up areally good point when you talk
about staying in the badmemories versus good memories,
and where do you find yourselfmost of the time?
Speaker 2 (10:44):
in the better memories and it's another gift.
And I just never would haveexpected, when I sat down to
write my funny little book, thatit would have this kind of
emotional ramifications on memuch less someone who read it,
which would have been totallyout of my mind.
But I think, because I'm goingthrough this process, I I think
it is.
It has shifted my perceptionwhere I.
It has shifted my perceptionwhere I.
(11:08):
I try to stay in the, in the,in the good memories more, and I
also try to look at memories asmalleable.
And I and I rely on my memorystill because I have a great
memory.
I have a better memory than mybrother and sister and they
would admit that.
But that doesn't mean the wayit all went down is completely,
a hundred percent factual and Ithink there's a lot of hope in
that and I think there's a lotof almost emotional freedom in
that, like I don't have to beanchored to that anymore all the
(11:30):
time, like it happened, butthat doesn't have to be the
anchor for the rest of my life.
Speaker 1 (11:35):
Well, you do bring up the point in the book that you
know those tough things thathappen to us, that when does it
get to the point where we talkand talk about things and then
we realize that it did happen,but the realization that talking
about it makes it worse after awhile.
So, and we're all different inhow we deal with our trauma and
(11:56):
how we talk about it.
But I do know that we can reacha point where it is not healthy
to revisit and revisit and it'shealthy to pick up and move on
and figure out a new way to move.
Did this book help you do that?
It seems like it did.
Speaker 2 (12:10):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
And I think what you said is soimportant that threshold is
different for each human being.
You know, each of us have adifferent threshold, for you
know when we're ready to say,okay, that happened, that was
bad, but I'm going to, I'm goingto, I'm going to move forward
now, and I don't think it's evendone in a definitive way or an
absolute way.
(12:30):
I think it's just doneemotionally and then we're just
ready to go to the next thing.
I love the line in the book andthis just made me think of it
but it's like the baggagecarousel at the airport you take
the bags on and off, and takethem off again and put them on
and at some point you know it's.
Speaker 1 (12:46):
it just goes around, around, around again until you
walk away from it, get thoseluggage off the carousel and
then go off and move on.
And we need to do that.
At times we have to and I feltthat with your book.
(13:09):
It felt so healing to me insuch a creative way and it
wasn't like the normal boringway of revisiting our life.
Speaker 2 (13:22):
Wow, that's very humbling.
I will say that as I've rereadthe book.
You know, I think this is verycommon for anyone who's written
a book or written anything.
You are being creative aboutanything.
You look back a certain partyou're like, ah, you know, I
can't believe I said that, but Ithink the thing I'm the
proudest of is how the book goes.
It'll get kind of deep and thenthere'll be some humorous zap
(13:43):
right right behind it.
I like that and I think that'swhat life is like, though you
know, we, we live through thingsthat are real and hard and then
someone makes us laugh.
You know there's such, there'ssuch value in that and we forget
that.
You know we can be that to eachother, you know, and that's so
important.
You know levity is so importantand uh, because it keeps things
(14:06):
in perspective and that's whowe could be to each other as
adults who have experienced, youknow, this incredible, messy,
screwed up, beautiful life.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
I want to ask you about your mom.
Did she have a hard timereading herself in the book?
Speaker 2 (14:23):
I cannot imagine Mom and I have discussed it but we
haven't had like a in-depth likewe.
We we touch on it, you know,and I I know that she cause I
the epilogue is true I did goand talk to mom, you know, I did
go and have that conversationwith her and we did not agree on
everything.
We both cried, which we, whichneither of us cried ever, and we
(14:46):
walked away, at least living inthe land of honesty.
And my mom has chosen, at leastin her conversations with me,
to focus on the parts of thebook that she felt seen and
valued.
And she's focused on thosethings and maybe with her
friends she said oh my God, Ican't believe she said all that,
(15:11):
but I think she's.
I what my perception of whatshe's done with it is, she's
done what dad said in the text.
So we don't talk about thosethings and she's good with that
and she's fine with with notdiscussing those things, at
least with me, and I know shehasn't discussed them with my
brother and sister, but she hastold me stuff like I liked when
you said dad's a great guy buthe's the right guy for me.
(15:32):
You know where's mom's ladiesnight out.
She liked it when I said youknow she's living this beautiful
life, but is this the life shewanted?
She liked when I said mom wantedto be a writer but she didn't
have the opportunities wanted.
She liked when I said momwanted to be a writer but she
didn't have the opportunitiesthat I did, because I think mom
saw herself seen as a woman andas this you know, amazing
individual who was captive toher time period, which was
(15:54):
absolutely the truth.
And I think she liked havingher mother being seen as this
negative force, you know, inthis backhanded kind of way in
her life, and I think she'schosen, at least with me, to
focus on those things.
And then she also I mean thisis personal, but she has
apologized to me several timessince the book came out, and not
(16:18):
in a specific way, but she saidstuff like I know I did stuff I
shouldn't have done.
I know I did things and I'mlike Mom, we're good, you know,
and so she has.
So I guess that's her reactionto what the book brought out and
what it didn't say, becausethat's all in there under the
surface.
Speaker 1 (16:38):
I mean that's actually beautiful.
And what about your siblings?
Have you been able to revisitwith them and say you know, why
did we act like nothing washappening in the house?
I mean it wasn't extreme, butwhatever it was at the time, why
was it just ignored and movedon?
Speaker 2 (17:04):
like nefarious, like like it's, because it's not big,
nobody's going to deal with it,and so it just seems like
everything's perfect and it'sfine, you know Right.
But but they, they, both, theywere, I think they were both, or
especially my sister.
My brother and I have discussedit less.
He's assessed it in the contextof one of his children's
relationship with his wife, buthe, you know, my sister, was
surprised that she knew some ofthe negative components of my
(17:28):
relationship with my mother, butshe was surprised at the
breadth of it Because I actuallyshared with her, you know, more
details and she was absolutelyjust dumped out in and upset,
very highly upset about it, andbecause her reality was
different than mine, I didn't gointo her room and talk to her
about it, you know, and itdidn't happen in front of other
people, and so I think she wasshocked and very as my big
(17:50):
sister, I mean as jealous as Iwas at her, she had my back, you
know.
Speaker 1 (17:55):
Okay, okay, you know well, every family has secrets,
and you're right.
And it doesn't have to be ahuge life altering situation in
order for it to affect who weare as individuals for the rest
of our lives.
Why, you know, it is thoseunderlying hidden secrets, those
things that are not said, thosedynamics within the family that
(18:16):
shape us, that are not healthy,that no one mentions.
And these are the stories thatare not normally written about.
And I'm so glad that you didthat.
Because is that why you addedthat twist to the time travel
too?
Because I have to say I thinkthat everyone should read this
book, because these storiesthey're not the ones that are
(18:39):
often told and it is that kindthat hits people where they live
.
You know more people where theylive.
So many people don't have thoseextremes.
And I think that time traveltwist actually kind of made it
more fun in a way, where we wereinvited into most people's
lives.
Most people's, you know not theextremes lives.
(19:00):
Most people's, you know not theextremes, right?
Speaker 2 (19:05):
I think that's a great observation, you know, and
for me the time travel was whatI want to do.
So and it ended up being, likeyou said, this great, you know
connector, you know a device to,rather than just remembering it
, to relive it, you know, andthen that's so relatable, the
whole thing is so relatable.
And whenever I talk to somebodyabout it, even when someone
(19:28):
hasn't read the book.
You know you're an exceptionbecause you read it, and I mean
you read it with great attentionto detail.
But you see the click, click,click, click, click and all that
is is male, female, it doesn'tmatter age.
What would I do if I went backto my 10 yearyear-old self?
And my kids have told me that Ithought myself back to my
10-year-old self and I was onlyhow many years removed from that
(19:49):
.
But that's the immediatetakeaway.
Is I put myself in thatsituation and what happens?
Speaker 1 (19:57):
I loved how you said just because it wasn't a case of
extremes doesn't mean it didn'thappen.
Speaker 2 (20:01):
Right right?
Speaker 1 (20:03):
Yeah, because we're so quick to minimize our pain
when it's not extreme.
Speaker 2 (20:10):
Right and we compare our.
You know, I have a dear friendwho lost her son to cancer at 15
.
And she tells me all the timeyou cannot not share your stuff
just because you don't think it.
Do that with me because you'recomparing it right away to my
(20:33):
son's death.
She said that doesn't take awayfrom your experience being a
real experience that has had aprofound impact on you.
But I think social media hasdone nothing, but it accelerates
that thought because we look onsocial media for the extreme.
We hear the extreme stories.
That's what's shared and so wethink if we don't have something
extreme, it's not worth sharing.
(20:55):
And and I like what you saidthis book is just, it's kind of
there's not right words for itanymore, not normal, not
suburban, you know, but it'sjust like you said, for most
people, for a lot of people,it's relatable.
Speaker 1 (21:26):
Um, that makes it powerful in a backhanded way.
Yeah, I mean it was a very hardtime for her.
But my daughter, talking abouttrying to relate in a way where
you know your pain might not beas bad as somebody else's and
you don't really want to shareit Well, my daughter wanted to
relate so badly in a way that wedidn't know that she did.
(21:47):
And she was holding my friend'shand in the hospital and she
said I know I had a cold once.
Speaker 2 (21:59):
The hospital and she said I know I had a cold once
and it was.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
she was only like three or something and it was
just so adorable yeah soadorable.
It was her way of trying torelate to her pain and meet her
where she was, and I mean wejust need to be who we are in
the moment and not be afraid.
Speaker 2 (22:15):
And there's such a humanness in that, though,
because that was born completelyout of love and concern.
Exactly, you know, and itwasn't.
It's not about you know.
That's one of the things I'velearned from my friend who lost
her son.
It's not about the right words.
You're not going to have theright words for something like
(22:36):
that or for a lot of differentsituations.
We don't have words to meetcircumstances.
You know.
It's about the presence of yourlittle girl holding that
woman's hand, you know, and themost powerful thing I can do for
my friend who lost her son isjust show up and hold her hand.
Speaker 1 (22:49):
Yeah, that's exactly right, and sometimes just be
quiet with them and that's allthey need.
No-transcript.
(23:15):
We could have thought thatabout you if you really did.
Did you really do your Barbie'shair with a chemistry set?
Speaker 2 (23:24):
Yeah, well, I did all kinds of things, anne, and I
don't like to put hair on thepodcast, but no, I did get the
chemistry set up in therebecause I was trying to do
something with it and I didn'treally blow it up, but that's a
good.
I love that whole scene whereshe's sewing her the stuff in
her bedroom you know all of hercollections and she's she lays
back on the bed.
These are the finest dice knownto mankind.
Speaker 1 (23:43):
I mean, that's, that's good stuff, you know, oh
it was I, what I, you know, whatyou showed, every aspect of
little Amy, the good, the bad,ugly, the funny.
And I also wanted to ask you,because you said that your mom,
she was the mom that God gaveyou for a reason, and did that
(24:04):
realization shift for you duringthe book?
Speaker 2 (24:08):
Oh, absolutely Absolutely, Because I was a mom
when I wrote the book and Iwatched and I also saw.
You know, I always gave dad allthe credit, you know, dad, dad,
dad, dad, dad.
But mom's the one who set me upfor a lot of real things, you
know.
And mom, in trying to keep me,dad, just let me be me.
And mom also, you know, helpedme survive, you know, and she
(24:31):
absolutely was the mom she wassupposed to be, Because she
realized the reality of life.
Dad was more of likeeverything's going to work out
fine, this is going to be great,you know.
And mom was more like she waslike you asked what I would.
You know my reaction to myyounger self as she sat across
from me.
Well, dad was the person on oneshoulder going go, Amy, you
know, go, take all your clothesoff and run naked across the
(24:53):
house.
And he wouldn't have said that,but per se, but he was
supportive of the football side.
All the things I did that werekind of.
He was like she's fine, Sue,she's fine.
And mom was the one on theother side, the other shoulder,
saying hey, we got to fit inbecause we got to survive this
whole thing.
So I think, as much as mommight not have liked me, she
loved me.
She loved me.
Speaker 1 (25:30):
She loved me enough to try to help me to survive the
rest of my life, and that was agift, but I could have not ever
seen that I don't know whatI've seen it without the book.
I don't know, I have no idea,but I definitely would not have
felt it to the depth that.
I feel it because I knew shedidn't like me, but somehow this
book made me realize that sheloves me.
Speaker 2 (25:38):
I mean, though, every child wants their mom to like
them, right, yeah, and I thinkthat that's well those of us
who've had that experience.
We look for that in someoneelse, like we want someone to be
our champion.
You know another female personin our life who will, you know,
mother us or whatever it iswe're looking for, you know, and
then we'll probably reject thattoo.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
Yeah, one of the things that I think that really
got you through.
It felt like I mean, you readtwo Bibles every night and the
Green Bible was very special toyou.
The spiritual thread in yourstory is so quiet yet profound.
What role did faith play inyour healing journey?
Speaker 2 (26:14):
Oh, I mean absolutely .
I mean it's my personal faith.
I did see, though, when I wrotethe book that you know, I
thought that God had kind ofshowed up in my life in my 20s
or when I went to college, youknow.
But I did see, in rememberingthe Bible which I still have and
it's in my box from when Iwrote the book I did see that
(26:35):
God showed up for me earlierthan I thought God did, and I
remember reading that stuff, butI realized that had a huge
impact on me before I everacknowledged that it did.
I was just doing what you know,probably what I thought they
wanted me to do in church,because I was kind of a.
In one way I wasn't a rulefollower, but in another way I
was completely a rule follower,and I think that was God just
(26:56):
showing up for me at a veryearly age and me not seeing that
.
And I did go look at thatpicture of Jesus holding the
girl's hand and the hand on theboy's shoulder, and I felt very
physically and emotionally drawnto that as a child, and I think
that there's an absolute reasonfor that, because God was there
and I didn't even know it.
Speaker 1 (27:19):
Yeah, you wrote.
Little Amy didn't know a thingabout the challenges of religion
the simplicity of gracecombined with the absolute
complicated nature of it, thedouble standards that mixed
unconditional love with strictrequirements, harsh judgment
with hypocrisy, and totalinclusion with exclusivity.
Feeling unloved not by God butby God's people, which, by the
(27:44):
way, I understand 100%.
Amen, amen, amen.
Not being capable myself ofloving all God's people, judging
being judged.
In Amy's heart and soul therewas no room for any of this.
As idiotic, lost and naive asshe seemed and she was, her
(28:05):
grasp of what was real wastremendous.
If faith were real, she had it.
Unsoiled, unspent belief,formed in the face of real life,
not some sort of milky whitechildhood fantasy land.
I mean, I loved it.
I just I wrote it down when youwere an adult, telling your
(28:27):
younger self that you believe inhim too.
I mean, come on, that was amoment for me.
Speaker 2 (28:37):
Oh, I mean, and just having you read that back, I
mean that was obviously areflection on my adult
experience as someone whobelieves in God, obviously, you
know.
But to see that, I mean to seethat faith in my young self, I
mean that had to have a profoundimpact on me and probably
changed my relationship with Godagain.
Because I was like, wait, youshowed up at the beginning and
wait, this doesn't have anythingto do with all these other
(28:58):
people, this has to do with meand God.
So there's another aspect ofthe book that changed me, I'm
sure.
Speaker 1 (29:06):
Yeah, I mean you wrote if I couldn't love her,
meaning little Amy, who would?
I mean the gift that you gaveyourself, the most important
gift that you gave yourself waslove.
Speaker 2 (29:18):
Right and accepting.
Yeah, I love that scene in themall when I'm in the sporty
goods place and I feel like thatguy, the salesman, is judging
little Amy and I get all upsetabout it and I say that if I'm
not going to stand up for us,who's going to stand up for us?
You know, if I'm not going tostand up for myself, who's going
to stand up for me?
And I think by that I meantlike if I'm not going to just
(29:38):
accept myself for the girl whowanted the helmets and the
sports bag and the bumper pooltable and the sausage log, then
who else is going to do it?
And does that even reallymatter if I can accept myself
for this screwed up,well-intentioned messy?
Yet you know, okay individualwith a bunch of quirks.
Speaker 1 (30:00):
I want to take us to probably one of my favorite
parts of the book.
It was so deep for me, by theway, and so I want to read this.
The truth was that I was anawkward child.
An awkward, graceless,uncoordinated, angry girl who
was difficult to love, mostly byherself, mostly by her adult
(30:22):
self.
Was she unlovable because ofthe freak she was?
Or instead, was she a freakbecause she wasn't loved?
Did she throw herself down thestairs in the middle of the
night just to see if anyonewould come and check on her?
Because there really wassomething wrong with her,
something dysfunctional, or as areaction to what was going on
(30:43):
under the surface in the house?
That actually happened.
I was there.
Did they ever discuss it?
Because they never talked aboutit with me?
Were they worried?
Or did they, like certainpeople who hallucinated, drank a
lot, almost got raped, just actlike it never happened?
How deep did this all go, andwhat parts was I not remembering
(31:05):
?
Wiping my eyes on the leg of apolyester pantsuit hanging over
my head, I realized that thereally screwed up part of the
whole business was that everyonewas going to forget about all
that.
Yeah, there would be picturesof the actual events and the
sharp flashes of memory becausethey were real, but still
(31:27):
everyone would forget becausethat was the thing to do, it
wasn't on purpose, it was humanand who wanted to go through
life with all those memories intheir head anyway?
Maybe the luckiest people werethose who couldn't remember.
Eventually, thankfully, I layin the fetal position on the
floor and passed out slobbermoistening the gold shag surface
(31:50):
.
Sometime before dawn I awoke,opened the door to the closet
and crawled over to the bed.
It was quiet.
I awoke, opened the door to thecloset and crawled over to the
bed.
It was quiet and I felt sick.
I began to question myself,almost completely subconsciously
why did I let myself drink somuch?
Idiot.
Why did I cry like that andfall asleep in the closet?
Idiot.
Why did I go outside at theparty?
(32:11):
Total idiot.
It was my fault, all my fault,but at least I didn't drunk,
post on Facebook or text a bunchof people.
At least there was that.
As I drifted off, I thoughtabout how lucky people were 30
years ago not to have theinternet.
I just want to say what theheck I mean.
(32:32):
There was so much in this.
Put me in this moment.
Speaker 2 (32:37):
Yeah, that's a lot.
There's a lot there, you know,and I think that the buildup of
writing everything I wrote uptill that point comes out right
there.
And you know, and theobservations, and you know,
spending that time in my ownimagination in that circumstance
, and I think I'm being reallyalmost too honest there, you
(32:59):
know, to the point where it'salmost painful to hear, because
that's my real inner monologueespecially, I mean the whole,
and I had never I mean this isthe crazy part, anne I had never
told anybody and no one hadever said anything to me about
to throw myself down the stairs,which was true, that's a true
thing.
That happened and I think Irealized in writing all the
(33:23):
stuff I wrote up to this pointand, being a mom, that no one
ever addressed that.
I remembered it and I don'tthink I was even trying to be
dramatic.
I mean that is a freakingdramatic passage, you know, and
but that happened and no one,and then no one, ever said
anything.
No one ever said a word aboutit.
Dad would come up the stairsbut I would already be in my bed
(33:44):
and I'm sure I was heavybreathing and he just acted like
it wouldn't happen and then hewent back down the stairs and
they never said anything.
You know, and I think that Imean I wrote the part where I
drank and then gone upstairs andlaid the feet on position in
the closet because I realizedthat if I had was actually to
live through this whole thing, Iwould be at a point of
(34:06):
completely emotional overwhelm,like too much, like I can't
handle anymore, cause that'sright after my mom and dad and I
are drunk in the roomdownstairs and say goodnight to
each other, my mom holds me inher arms and tells me how much
she loves me.
You know how loved I am and andI think it just too much, it was
too much to write it by, toomuch to hear it again.
(34:26):
I'm not saying you shouldn'thave read it, I'm saying that's
just a lot, you know.
And so I think that's areaction, all that honesty and
all that analyzation, you know.
And then that inner monologueis the classic over-served inner
monologue.
Blame it all on yourself, butwe don't have the internet, you
right, which is a great line Ilove because I would have been
(34:50):
even more messed up if I wouldhave had facebook back then.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
Oh a hundred percent A little.
Speaker 2 (34:55):
Amy was well-served not to have it.
Um, you know, as was Sue,probably would have been my
mother probably would have beenmore like some of her own
personal stuff would have beenharder with, with her mom and
her looking on Facebook, youknow, and Kim would have been
okay, but Kim would have beeneven more.
I mean, she would have beenokay but it would have been hard
(35:15):
on her and Rick wouldn't evenknow anything was going on.
But you're right, though, Imean, and it was lucky she
didn't have it, it's a goodobservation.
Speaker 1 (35:29):
You wanted to save your younger self from your
future pain when you drank toomuch in college and slashed your
wrist.
You didn't want to die, but youdid want someone to acknowledge
the pain and it feels like, andyou can tell me if writing the
book helped you acknowledge yourown pain.
Speaker 2 (35:50):
Oh yeah, 100%.
It validated a lot of things,not in writing a book and I
clearly did not actually go backin time, but I it's.
It's about taking, like takingit seriously, like letting my
mom off the hook because she didthe best she could, but also
that stuff actually happened andit had an emotional legacy that
was real.
You know, that was that wasreal and and it's back to what
(36:14):
we said, like I could compare mychildhood to a bunch of other
childhoods and my childhood wasmild, completely mild, you know,
compared to other things thathappened to people.
But that doesn't mean that itdidn't have a real impact.
Exactly that doesn't mean thatit didn't matter.
It doesn't mean there wassomething for me to be healed
(36:34):
from and freed from, regardlessof what anyone else thought
about it.
And that's maybe that's the thepower in this story, cause I
remember writing that scenebecause the editor I kind of
alluded to the cause thatactually happened in college,
that another real memory that Iobviously that was the hardest
thing to share in the book.
And I remember calling mycollege roommate and saying I
(36:56):
just wrote this scene about whathappened when we were in
college because she was myroommate at the time I was like
I don't even know what to do.
She's like this might be themost she said without it, you're
going to leave everybodyhanging.
You know, without it it becomesless powerful, the story
becomes less powerful.
And I just remember telling herI don't think I can do it.
And she's like well, you justgotta decide.
You're either gonna do it ornot do it.
And I did it and I, you know,put it in the back of my head.
Speaker 1 (37:19):
You were sexually assaulted in the book.
Why that was in the book backin time.
Speaker 2 (37:24):
Right and a lot of people have asked that and more
people have told me that thatscene doesn't fit in the book
than anything else.
But to me it was a vehicle toshow how extreme the I'm not
going to tell anybody whathappened was from.
For a bunch of people in 1978and certainly myself, you know,
(37:46):
and I was not sexually abused asa child.
I had that exact scene happento me at another point in my
life, like in my late teens,outside of the house, and I
wanted to use that as I went inthe bathroom and brushed myself
off and act like nothing everhappened and I told myself in
the half bath I'll never tellanybody this and I 100% know I
(38:08):
wasn't going to tell anybodythat and I'll stand by that and
I just it was the extreme thatit showed, the extreme that
certain people in certainsituations are not going to tell
you what happened and we don'tknow what we think we know is is
not reality.
It's back to your quote aboutwhat's under that surface is
what's really going on here.
(38:47):
Right, right, yeah, I mean, andwe didn't talk about those
things back then, Right, or a 24hour news cycle where they look
for, you know, everything'shighlighted because you have to
fill all the hours.
You know and we didn't know.
We were supposed to be afraid,but then the legacy of not
(39:07):
telling something thatsignificant to another human
being, the legacy for the womenwe are today.
That's part of the story, youknow, and we're all holding onto
things.
Speaker 1 (39:15):
You are.
Speaker 2 (39:16):
I am.
Just because I wrote a back intime book didn't mean I told
everybody everything.
And it doesn't mean I don't sithere and think, oh my God, I
can't believe I shared all that.
And if there's a part of methat doesn't understand how
logically I thought that was agood idea to share those things.
You know, like what in the hellwere you thinking?
You know you should have stuckwith man bulges and chest hair.
But I do think it is why thebook has resonated with people.
(39:42):
You know, and I guess I juststand by that.
Speaker 1 (39:47):
Another thing was when you left in 1978, when you
left 1978 and left your youngerfamily for your new family, it
became really visual for me.
I saw you leave your young dadto your elderly father.
So what was that like for youwhen you wrote it?
Speaker 2 (40:07):
Oh, it was, yeah, because I had felt like I'd gone
back in time, you know.
It just gave me a newappreciation and you used dad as
an example for dad.
I mean, dad was once this youngguy, you know, who was almost
the same person, but in adifferent shell and a younger
version.
And again it's almost likelooking back at my siblings and
(40:28):
having this appreciation forthem.
It made me appreciate that, dad, you know, and dad's place in
my life and mom's place.
It made me appreciate that dad,you know, and dad's place in my
life and mom's place, thatthey'd spent their whole life
doing nothing else but just tryto love me or contain me or
whatever it is they were tryingto do, you know.
But there was something likeit's like backwards nostalgia,
if that makes sense.
Like seeing dad as an old manwas almost nostalgic after
(40:49):
seeing him as a young man.
It's like a.
It's like a Right, right, right.
Speaker 1 (40:53):
Yes, I totally understand that and I felt that
in the book.
Speaker 2 (40:57):
Right, right, it was like the golden age is now maybe
and we just didn't know it.
Speaker 1 (41:09):
The final note from your son to your younger self
was a gift.
Do you think that love reallycan fix everything?
Because apparently your son did.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Right.
I wonder if he still thinksthat, and that was an exact
quote from the application hefilled out for that summer camp.
He put that in there and so itwas, I think while I was writing
the book so it became easy touse.
I do.
I do believe that.
I do believe when, you know.
I mean there's a lot ofdifferent contexts for that.
(41:35):
There's self-love, there's lovefor our family members, our
children, our spouse, all thosethings.
And then there's love betweenpeople who, on the line, a lot
of those things that dictate,who we can't care about, begin
(41:59):
to dissipate.
And I do think that in thecontext of myself me seeing my
younger self as this yes, offthe chain, bowl-cutted, bad
glasses, freakazoid but meseeing her as someone who was
bold enough to live the way shefelt like she could live and had
all this energy and creativity,and me loving her for who she
(42:24):
was is absolutely life-changingMe loving my mother and seeing
her for who she was, absolutelylife-changing.
So in the context of all thosedifferent ways, I think love
really can, in its purest form,you know, unfiltered can
absolutely change anything, saveanything.
Speaker 1 (42:41):
And I also love that.
Your main message to yourselfthat you wanted to convey was
that, no matter what is going tohappen to you in the next
decades of your life, you'regoing to be okay.
Right of your life you're goingto be okay, and I think that's
a message for all of us to learnas we look at our childhood
self and, you know, go throughour decades.
I think consoling, validatingourselves, holding ourselves in
(43:05):
such an is an important messagein this book.
Do you think that little Amywould be proud of who you became
?
Speaker 2 (43:12):
Yeah, man that I I do .
I think she would.
There'd be a couple things shecalled me out on for sure.
I think she'd be like you know,why were you?
I don't know she would, I thinkit depends on, I think.
But after, before writing thebook, I think she'd definitely
have more stuff to say to methan after writing the book.
And as I have gotten oldersince I wrote the book okay, the
(43:35):
combination of book and age had, you know, I think age normally
I mean naturally frees us alittle bit, makes us think I
don't care anymore, you know,but I think my kids leaving the
house, that freed me even more.
So I think there'd be a lot ofthings she'd be proud of.
She'd probably still call meout on a few things if she was
sitting here right next to me, Ithink.
So, I really do.
But I think there'd be thingsthat she'd be like wow, like
(43:57):
that was pretty cool, you know.
And I think she'd think thesports writing and the Excel
spreadsheets, and I think she'dmeet my kids and she'd be like,
wow, I didn't even know we coulddo that, you know.
And I think that she would lookat the book about her and she'd
be like, wow, you know and Ithink she would some of the
accomplishments.
It's not even theaccomplishments, but some of the
(44:18):
accomplishments.
It's not even theaccomplishments, but some of the
things I've gotten to do.
She'd just be like we're badass, it's true, and I play golf
and I'm horrible at it.
But she'd be like get out thereevery time and if you quit, I'm
getting out of the cart and I'mtaking you home.
Speaker 1 (44:32):
I mean, like she, she was, she's the better version
of me, though I loved yourconnection with her.
I mean I know you bought hermore presents than you did the
other two and I know that youkind of showed favoritism
towards her because I mean, youknow, your mom kind of thought
that it was because you neededit.
She needed it versus the othertwo, and I think that that was
accurate.
Speaker 2 (44:53):
Right, right, yeah, and I love, I love and that's
all you know.
That's a reflection of how Ifelt getting to know her through
the narrative of the story, youknow, the reflection of I've
never thought about this, of megetting her more gifts.
And then there's a scene Iguess it's at the breakfast room
table that morning we wake upfrom like I really can't think
(45:16):
about it.
She's the most sane person atthis table, really, like the
rest of these people arefruitcakes, and I think it's
that you're seeing theprogression of me reconnecting
with her and being likecelebrating her rather than, you
know, running from her.
And that's what I love aboutthe bonanza scene, cause she
goes off the chain when she sayswhat she's thankful for, and
she's thankful for pantaloaloons, and she goes into this whole.
(45:38):
She doesn't stop, yeah shedoesn't stop and I like how I
called her the EF Hutton of theThanksgiving bonanza table, but
she, because everybody stops andlistens when she talks, because
she's going to do somethingstupid.
But I think all that is just areflection on how I feel about
myself in the journey of writingthe book.
Speaker 1 (45:56):
Yeah, Well, what would?
Speaker 2 (46:00):
you say to Amy, little Amy today, oh man, I
don't know, I'd give her thebiggest hug and I would just
thank her.
I think I would.
I'd thank her because I'd belike you know, I didn't see it.
Speaker 1 (46:23):
I didn't see it before but I see it now, you
know, and I'd thank her and I'dtell her I was how proud I was
of her, and I tell her that I'dspend the rest of my life trying
to honor who she was.
One of my favorite moments inthe book is when the note
appeared as an adult out of yourgreen Bible.
I wanted that so badly.
I waited and waited and hopedthat that would happen.
So I was really glad that thatwas a big connection for me.
(46:45):
It kind of came full circle.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
Right, I'm glad you said that, because you wonder
what readers you know think orhow you ended it, and it comes
very late, I mean like on thelast five pages, probably four
pages before it, before it comes, yeah, and the satisfying thing
is then you're left with athought of oh, it was real, you
know, and for me as the writerit was real.
(47:11):
I mean, the experienceemotionally is very real for me
and so the note I don't know italmost validates it for me
emotionally in a way.
Speaker 1 (47:19):
Were, your memories changed after writing this book.
Speaker 2 (47:23):
Yeah, because I you know the perspective of and just
a realization that you know,memories are malleable depending
on who's doing the memory.
So so though, I think Amy'smemories, little Amy's memories,
were absolutely little Amy'smemories.
But now I look at every memorythrough a different lens,
because now I have had thisexperience where I can turn
(47:44):
memories from 1988 on their headand I think it's probably
something I need to remember asI remember, I put it at the
forefront of that and not forgetthe experience of the book.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
You mentioned this in the book, how you kept people
at a distance.
Do you still do that?
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I think less.
I think to a lesser degree, andI think that is because it's
back to the power of sharing astory and standing next to it
and owning it and that being andit is a hard transformation for
all of us who grew up duringthose time periods where
feelings were not discussed thatit's okay.
It's okay to talk about yourfeelings and you're not doing
(48:25):
anything wrong, and I thinkthat's something that's really
important to those of us whowere brought up that way.
And it was not done nefariously.
They were not telling us not totalk about our feelings because
they were bad people.
They were just living the waythey were taught.
Yeah, right, but that it's okaynot just to talk about our kids,
(48:46):
about their feelings, because Ithink that's the obvious outlet
, but to talk about ourselves,to talk about our own feelings,
and we're not being indulgent bydoing that Within the context,
like you said, of when is itokay just to walk away from it?
Right, right, because there'sall different kinds of little
nuances to that?
Speaker 1 (49:02):
Yeah, I also have to ask this because I really wanted
to know if you went back to theintimacy of paper and pencil
after that, instead of thevulnerabilities of social media.
Speaker 2 (49:12):
Well, that's an amazing question because you
know, this book didn't naturallylead to the next thing that
happened to me, but there'sstatements like what you just
said, and then I talk aboutthanking people and I need to
get pens and thank you notes.
That's a line later in the book, but I totally in an unplanned,
uncharted way, after this bookI got reconnected with an old
(49:36):
friend on Facebook and this is agirl whose son died of cancer
and I hadn't spoken to her in 30years and she was at St Jude in
Memphis and the cancer cameback and I sat down at my desk
to write one Monday morning.
It's like a lightning bolt hitme in the head I think it was
God, but everybody can put it intheir own context and I came up
with this idea I was going tostart sending this pair
handwritten notes while theybattled this cancer, and so I
(49:59):
started doing that.
I hadn't written anybody ahandwritten note in 30 years and
her son dies.
I keep writing her because Idon't know what else to do.
She starts writing me back.
We spent two years being penpals without any kind of
electronic communication, andthe experience was so profound
that I was like wait a second,if this can happen from this one
(50:25):
girl, what about these otherhundreds of people on Facebook?
So I ended up taking 18 monthsand I wrote 600 handwritten
letters to all these people andI wrote a book about that and I
speak about that.
So you just tied the two thingstogether by that question,
which is unusual.
But I can see shades of whathappened next in the story and
what I learned from the story.
You know, and I and that's sucha nugget of goodness for me to
have been asked that question byyou- I yeah, I wondered if you
(50:49):
really did write all thoseletters.
Speaker 1 (50:51):
So you really did.
Speaker 2 (50:52):
Oh yeah, 100 percent.
It took 18 months and it waslike I didn.
When I decided I was going todo it because of what happened
with my friend Dana and her son,I didn't really think I was
going to finish.
I just like this is a greatkind of idea.
I'll just roll with it and seewhat happens.
But I say that.
But I felt completely investedin it enough to buy stationery,
but I thought 580 letters wasnot achievable.
(51:14):
But then once I'd written about30 letters, I was like wait a
second, and I didn't intend towrite a book about it, I didn't
intend to do any of that.
But I realized that this may bethe most important thing I ever
did in my life and it was likea freight train of good that I
almost couldn't hang on tobecause it was just too much.
But then, once I got over thehalfway point, people were
expecting their letters then andI realized again that this was
(51:36):
going to be probably the mostepic journey I ever.
Went on.
And so somehow, someway, Iwrote 580 handwritten letters.
Speaker 1 (51:44):
Well, I think it's going to be my next read,
because you know you said thatif my life could be so changed
by someone I consider just aFacebook friend, what would
happen if I wrote all myFacebook friends a letter?
And you know, I mean like wemight think something like that,
but we don't actually do it.
Speaker 2 (52:02):
You did it, yeah, and I think that's.
That's a credit to Lil Amy,though to maybe a credit to
writing.
You cannot mess this up,because you know me seeing Lil
Amy as someone who was clearlynot afraid to do something crazy
.
You know, lil Amy, she wouldhave had an Amazon account.
She could have really blown theworld up.
You know she would have.
You know that's like.
The Facebook project was likeprocessed meat log from Hickory
(52:24):
Farms.
I mean, it was.
I'm just saying that it's.
You know.
And I think little Amy wouldabsolutely be proud of the
letter writing project.
You know, because it went rightup her alley.
She could have done it in heroffice there at the closet.
(52:44):
You know, she, there he goes,she.
But I, you know, and I'm soappreciative of this
conversation because I've tiedthose two stories together in my
head, but not to this degree.
So I appreciate that very much,Anne.
Speaker 1 (52:51):
Yeah, I wondered if there was some kind of
connection there.
Is there another time inhistory, another particular day
that you would like to go backto?
Speaker 2 (53:04):
You know, after writing this book, the first
thing I think is differentpoints you know in my own life
that I would like to go back to.
As somebody who loves history,I'd absolutely love to go back
to like 10 points, you know,just to walk through it and see
what it actually felt like andmaybe spend 36 hours or a couple
of days, and for me that wouldbe.
You know the post-war periodbetween World War I, world War
(53:25):
II.
You know maybe the fifties,when we're talking about what's
going on.
You know our moms were beingbrought up I think I'm older
than you but you know we're alot of the legacy of what we
lived in the 70s was being underand I would want to spend two
or three weeks then likewandering around or maybe in a
family inserted like that, andjust understanding some of the
(53:46):
nuances of the life.
You know that that that we livedand I don't know where I'd go
back to again in my own life.
You know, definitely I don'tthink I could handle my teenage
years, you know.
But I would like to see my kidsboth young again, because now
that I've just gone empty nest,you know I'm holding like I
realized that was one of thebest parts of my life and I knew
(54:07):
it at the time.
But there's no way you canemotionally, you know,
internalize all those feelingsof you, know how this is
exhausting, but it's the bestthing ever.
Speaker 1 (54:18):
Yeah, I mean, life goes so fast and we just and
it's also so busy that you don't, by the time your head hits the
pillow at night, you don'trealize, and we don't hold on to
those moments.
I had a moment the other daywith my eight-year-old where we
were sitting at the zoo and he'sjust we're looking at the lions
and he's eating his dip anddots and I'm just like I just
(54:41):
want to freeze this moment,right.
Speaker 2 (54:43):
And you knew right then.
And you're, you knew and that'sthe thing we could we have.
We have moments, I think, wherewe know like this is the best,
this is.
I don't know that it's you know.
I feel that way now when I seemy kids, I'm like I just gotta
hold on to this, I gotta hold on.
But I'm having moments, and it'snot devastating or tragic.
It's such a normal part of lifebut it is, and it's like back
(55:07):
to what you said about under thesurface.
That's where real life is.
We just can't see it becausewe're busy doing all the things
that have to be done.
Speaker 1 (55:16):
Right, and it's kind of sad that we kind of just skim
over it as on the surface, andwe don't really realize how
important these moments are.
But when we break them down, Imean it's they become these
snapshots in time, you know, andthe photographs that we hold on
to.
But it's better to be in themoment than to look at them in
(55:38):
hindsight and remember and wishthat we would have enjoyed them
more.
Speaker 2 (55:43):
Right, and that's what's important about
conversations and about realtalk.
You know your podcast, becauseit definitely is.
You know I've got a lot tothink about, but hopefully
people are listening, hopefullypeople who are listening.
Speaker 1 (56:06):
You know this will help them wherever they are in
their journey, you know toremembering and thinking about
those things in their currentsituation, not just in the past.
Well, I can tell you, Amy, Ireally enjoyed this conversation
.
Speaker 2 (56:13):
How can people get a hold of you?
Do you have a website?
I do, it's amydaughterscom, andthat's everything about both
books about.
Of course, there's a bunch ofsilly stuff on there and you
know how to connect with me andI'd love I love to connect with
people, email, social media.
I have my mailing address onthere because I'm a proponent of
letter writing now, after allmy many letters, but yeah, and
(56:34):
I'd love to hear from anyoneabout anyone's thoughts, about
anyone, and I will say too, thisis one of the best interviews
I've ever had, especially aboutthis book.
I really appreciate howthorough it's been and you've
taught me things about my ownstory that I didn't know, so I
just am so appreciative, verysincerely, thank you.
Speaker 1 (56:53):
Yeah, I'm going to have to read your Facebook one.
Maybe we'll have to do anotherone.
Speaker 2 (56:59):
I would love that and .
Speaker 1 (57:00):
I'm here for it.
Well, everybody, I just want tothank you for listening and I
just want to thank you for beinghere today, amy, you just
didn't write a book, amy.
You opened a portal for all ofus to walk through a
time-traveling, heart-repairing,laugh-out loud, healing journey
that proves maybe it did reallyhappen.
(57:21):
Please grab her book.
You Can't Mess this Up, a TrueStory that Never Happened.
And, trust me, you'll want yourown handy dandy notebook by the
end instead of postingeverything on social media.
Remember there is purpose inthe pain and there's hope in the
journey, and also love reallyis the answer, even when the
question is should I go back intime to find it?
(57:41):
We will see you next time.
Welcome back to Real Talk withTina and Anne.
I am Anne, and buckle up,because this isn't just part two
.
It's a continuation of thetime-traveling,
heart-string-pulling,laugh-out-loud journey with the
one and only Amy Wineland.
Daughters, if you missed partone, go back and grab your
fresca, your Jordache jeans andyour middle school diary,
(58:03):
because Amy took us back to 1978with her brilliantly crafted,
deeply personal memoir.
You Cannot Mess this Up A TrueStory that Never Happened.
But today we're diving deeperinto memory, into grief, into
healing and, yes, into themagical, messy beauty of
figuring out your family, yourfaith and your place in the
(58:23):
world.
This episode will make youlaugh, cry and maybe call your
dad after.
Let's go ahead and do this.
This is part two.
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