May 21, 2025 • 60 mins
What does resilience look like after losing your brother, your son, your marriage, your ability to walk, and raising a child with autism? Rebecca Galli knows this terrain intimately. As a bestselling author of over 400 columns, her books "Rethinking Possible" and "Morning Fuel" offer hard-earned wisdom from a life that repeatedly challenged the limits of human endurance. Rebecca also founded Pathfinders for Autism, an organization to help children and families with autism.
Rebecca opens up about being paralyzed by transverse myelitis (a rare condition affecting one in a million) just nine days after her divorce was finalized, while raising four children—two with special needs. Through these unimaginable circumstances, she discovered that how we start our day sets the tone for everything that follows.
Her father, a pastor, instilled powerful mantras that became lifelines: "What is planned is possible" and "You will always walk with a limp, but you will walk." These words took on profound new meanings as Rebecca had to repeatedly rethink what was possible when life kept changing the rules.
The conversation explores her innovative approach to uncertainty through "parallel paths"—simultaneously preparing for multiple possible outcomes rather than becoming paralyzed by the unknown. She shares how this strategy helped her face questions like "Will I walk again?" and "How will I raise my children?" with clarity and purpose.
Perhaps most moving is Rebecca's philosophy about relationships: "Let your love be larger than any circumstance." This approach helped her maintain connections even through grief, different coping styles, and physical limitations. She also reveals how founding Pathfinders for Autism following her daughter's diagnosis transformed personal challenge into purpose, now serving 20,000 people annually.
Whether you're facing your own impossible situation or simply seeking perspective, Rebecca's journey shows that resilience isn't about avoiding pain—it's about pivoting from "why is this happening?" to "how will I handle this?" and finding unexpected joy along the way.
Take a moment today to subscribe, share with someone facing their own challenges, and join us for part two of this extraordinary conversation next week.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne and today we have oneof the most incredible voices
that we have had on the podcast.
Rebecca Galli is a best-sellingauthor and a columnist of over
400 columns.
She has written two booksRethinking Possible, a Memoir of
Resilience, and a dailyinspirational book, morning Fuel
(00:31):
.
Rebecca, I have read everysingle word of your first book,
rethinking Possible, and I'mfollowing along in your daily
inspirational book, morning Fuel.
I've read a lot of books and Ihave met a lot of people.
I can honestly say the more Ihave read about your story and
learned about who you are as aperson.
(00:53):
I am so honored to meet you andto have you on Now you're
bringing me to tears.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thank you so much.
A pleasure to be able toconnect with you.
I know it took us a while toget this arranged and I'm
honored to be on your show.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, I want to talk about your story from Rethinking
Possible while we talk aboutmorning fuel, because the wisdom
on the papers in yourinspirational book is earned.
Every single, every single page.
To put a list of what you havegone through does not do it
justice and you have to readyour story and I'm encouraging
(01:32):
all of our listeners to pick upboth books At the beginning of
Morning Fuel which, by the way,I start with my Starbucks too
and I love my Starbucks and yourwords speak to me and your dad
was right Writing is a gift thatyou have been, you have picked
up from him probably.
(01:54):
I mean, he was a man of words.
I would love to talk about thewords from your dad, your mom,
your brother and you in thepodcast, dad, your mom, your
brother and you in the podcast.
You started your inspirationalbook with these words.
Some would say life has not beenkind to me.
I lost my 17-year-old brotherand his name was Forrest.
(02:15):
Two of my four children hadspecial needs.
One of my two sons died at age15, and his name was Matthew,
and at 38, nine days after mydivorce was finalized, I was
paralyzed by transverse myelitis, if I'm saying that right, a
rare inflammation of the spinalcord that affects one in a
(02:40):
million, and it's been hard topower through and live fully in
this life.
I did not choose, but I'velearned that how I start my day
sets the tone for how I getthrough the day.
You know who I thought aboutwhen I was reading these and I'm
(03:00):
going to just say this before Iask any questions because as I
read that, I thought about yourmom sitting in the kitchen, you
know, sitting there with youdrinking coffee and just giving
you her wisdom.
I thought about your dad andhim standing up there at the
pulpit and his words of wisdom,and I thought about Forrest and
(03:23):
his last words, and you knowwhat that must have meant.
I saw your sister, rachel'sarms, holding you up in the
bathroom, you know, and I justwas laughing.
And I saw your strength, astrength I've not seen before.
I saw your kids.
I saw your son Peter reflectingon life.
I saw your kids.
(03:43):
I saw your son Peter reflectingon life.
I saw your daughter Brittany'sheart.
I saw Madison's autism flarefor life, which I'm autistic and
three of my kids are autistic,so I absolutely appreciate her
story.
And I saw Matthew's beautifuleyes looking up at you.
You know, with his, you knowbeautiful brown eyes, and even
(04:05):
though that he was medicallyfragile.
And you know, I just saweverything in your life right
there on the pages in thesebooks and I also saw our stories
you know, everybody's storiesright there on the pages, and
that was what was so beautifulabout it, because you know, you
(04:26):
are more than a million.
I think every family has apiece of your story.
Your pain is so deep, but yetyou live each day with intention
, positivity and incrediblegratitude, which is what you say
.
But everybody understands whatit's like to take care of a
child, or to have a hurt, or tohave a loss or a death or
(04:46):
somebody that you know.
Your child is really having ahard time and you're having a
hard time being able to get tothem or take care of their needs
, and I think every single oneof us can relate.
So thank you so much forwriting this.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
And that's well.
It was therapeutic.
It was part of the journeyreally, something I started
early on, just the power oflassoing those thoughts and
putting them down so they don'tjust bother you all the time.
So it's been a therapeuticjourney through writing and then
now connecting with people.
It's amazing how that's helpedme connect to others that to
(05:27):
others.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I bet I mean yeah, you get to help yourself
while helping them and yourstory really does help other
people.
You know your dad once saidhear dad's words, I'll tell you
what.
What is planned is possible.
And I love your title becauserethinking possible.
It's so perfect because theonly thing that seemed to go
your way was that you had fourkids.
(05:49):
The rest of your life tooktwists and turns that you had no
control over and you wereliving a life that just was.
You had to be and figure it outas life just happened.
But throughout both books, yourfamily's words, your words, I
think, were lifelines.
Your brother had beautifulwords that he said before he
(06:12):
passed away at age 17.
Could you share what thosewords were and how that helped
you, help carry you in your life?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, so my brother was 17.
I mean, he was that kid.
He was president of the studentbody, he was a musician, he was
a church leader, he was anathlete.
He had great plans to go toWake Forest University, get into
politics, become a senator,lawyer, you know all this.
And he was definitely doingthat thing what's planned as
(06:41):
possible.
And we grew up with that mantra.
And one of the last things thathe did before he went water
skiing which is where he had hisaccent was to write his essay
to Wake Forest University.
And one of the last questionsthey asked was you know, tell us
about your family.
And he did, and he expressedhis contentment with the family.
(07:07):
But his last words of thatessay and they wound up being
his last written words were Iwould change nothing and it
still gets up If he only lived17 years.
But still write that and, as asister, see him live that.
(07:34):
Yeah, what an accomplishment,even in 17 years.
Right, it's always been achallenge to me.
You know, before I lay my lay,my head on my pillow, you know,
is there anything I regret today?
I would change nothing.
Can I say that about the day?
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So it's really been something really precious that
he left us with yeah, a lot ofpeople don't get something like
that.
And to know that that's how hefelt.
That's just so beautiful.
I mean, it was like it wasmeant to be.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yes, I hate to.
And there's a part of the book,the Rethinking Possible where I
get really angry about thosewords because they weren't the
words I would have chose and Iwould have changed so many
things of the day that we losthim.
You know he wasn't lookingwhere he was going or he was
distracted, or you know all thethings I would have changed.
(08:29):
So it's an interesting study inthe emotions that happen around
loss.
You know where there's thismixed things.
I'm glad he was content, butI'm so.
Yeah, it was just so much toabsorb that I'd lost him like
that.
So it was.
It's been still even a toughloss.
(08:52):
Now I read that section when Ido some book talks and I'll give
myself a high five if I getthrough that without crying.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
But yeah, some profound words for a 17-year-old
and I think that's normal forus.
When there's a loss, lots oftimes and it's something like
that, you know where it's like.
Well, if I just would have beenthere at this time, if I just
would have said something beforethey went that way, or whatever
(09:23):
you know, I mean, survivor'sguilt is a real thing.
Yes, I like waking up andlooking at words like yours in
the morning because I think thatit's really important.
It helps us get outside of ourhead.
It helps us, you know, startour day correctly.
For myself, I mean, howimportant is it for you or for
(09:45):
other people why you wrote thisinspiring book for them to wake
up and want to go to it and pickit up and say you know what?
This is where I want to startmy day every morning, and even
if they just need to pick me upduring the day, yeah, it was a
practice of mine after I wrotethe first book.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
A lot of the questions I would get would be
you know, how do you do it, howdo we keep going?
And one of the things I doevery morning is pick from
several daily readers and havethat with my coffee, you know,
and I journal a little bit, Iread some more, I do some
(10:39):
reflection and I really try tostart it on the most positive
way.
And then sometimes I don't getto it first time, you know,
first thing in the morning, butit's a good power boost, you
know.
Just sometimes I think we getso caught up in it could be just
busyness, or even they startsliding downhill a little bit,
(11:05):
and this provides kind of adistraction, a separation from
whatever's going on, so that youcan kind of pull yourself back,
regroup and maybe get adifferent thought in your mind.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, and they're short, you know.
So I mean it's super nice to beable to just pick it up and be
able to go take your thoughts ina different direction.
I mean it really does help.
Thank you.
Now can you talk a little bit?
Because your life, I mean itwent on a pretty rough course
and it's not the life that youreally do plan.
(11:39):
So can you talk a little bitabout that real life, the kind
that takes us down Niagara Fallswhen we are not looking and you
know we have no boat, and itjust takes us down and we're
trying to find our way to thesurface and take a breath.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I had really big shock absorbers, you know, and
whatever is coming along, thatI've enlarged my group of
friends, enlarged my plans sothat I'm not trapped to that.
You just you have to accept thesituation whatever it is up
front.
You have to realize that I'm ina place I didn't plan.
And then I think the next stepis to be very honest about
(12:37):
what's your capability to dealwith the situation.
Can you manage it by yourself?
And if you can't bring inpeople I like to call it who's
in your boat, you know who canhelp you get through this storm,
that you'll equip to manage,and it may be family, it may be
(12:58):
friends, it may be professionaltherapists, it may be clergy,
but people that can support youin the particular situation
you're in.
And it's actually, through theyears, been surprising that that
crew changes.
When we lost our parents,rachel and I were trying to
(13:23):
comfort each other and werealized after the death of our
father that we couldn't reallycomfort each other because we
were in our own grief and so weneeded to expand our pool of
people in our boat because wejust made each other sadder
(13:44):
instead of trying to help eachother cope.
And I think that that's not afirst thought that you think
your family should be through.
They're the ones that know youbest.
They should be able to supportyou, but in the same grief,
chances are they may not be thebest person to get you through
(14:05):
it.
So then, that idea ofdetermining who can be helpful
to you as you navigate throughis a real core mode for me of
operating.
I'm constantly looking for whocan be helpful in a situation
like this and, to be honest,it's not always easy to ask for
help.
You know a lot of us like to doit on our own, but that's where
(14:32):
you need to be really honestabout your capacity to cope with
it by yourself.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Right, and it's, you know, finding the right people
to allow in and that can be hard.
I mean, I'm in a situationright now where you know
somebody in my familydesperately needs help, and so
you know, it's really prayingtrying to figure out who the
right people are and being okaywith letting outside people in.
(14:59):
Probably, you know, lots oftimes in your life when you were
first paralyzed or when youwere, you know, and I heard that
somehow some of the peopletalked about you when you I read
that in the book.
You know, I don't think thatthat's okay and the people that
you're trusting, you want themto have the same heart as you.
(15:21):
You know you want them to be onthe same page as you with your
family and what you're trying todo and your grief, and it's
just not okay.
So it's hard.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I say you can always uninvite them.
You just don't you know.
You kind of keep them out ofthe loop of information.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Uninvite them.
Well, I love that and I do dothat sometimes.
You know what we, like I saidearlier, with your dad and you
having this beautiful way ofbeing able to use words, and his
words were just alwayswonderful.
One of the things that he saidafter your brother passed away
(16:05):
was you will always walk with alimp, but you will walk.
And I mean for one thing thereis no one way to move forward.
And I instantly thought of howthose words changed for you when
you were no longer able to walk.
But I realized nothing in yourlife is traditional.
(16:28):
Definitions of moving forwardare just what they are.
You know they're alwayschanging, but you continue to
move forward.
So how did your dad's words oryour mom's words help you to
move forward during some of yourdarkest times?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
You know they wound up being these little pearls.
You know that they somethingterribly disruptive, just
unimaginable, and they somehow,with their way of looking at
things, made it palatable, mademe know that I could latch on to
(17:07):
what they were saying and walkwith a limp.
I thought about that.
You know I can't walk at all,but the meaning of that is that
it's okay to be wounded, it'sokay for pain, it's okay to have
a scar and have it impact you,that you're not flawed, you're
(17:30):
just moving through with whatlife gave you.
You're just moving through withwhat life gave you.
So I think that and that's theway, what did you say that I
think was timely, but alsotimeless in the way that he was
himself yes, look at itdifferently.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I love that.
You know what do you do.
You said in Morning Fuel andthis was a great question what
do you do when you don't knowwhat's next?
You know you've lived in thatspace, I think, for years, and I
think many of us do.
You know not as extreme ofyours, of course, because you
literally could barely get yourbreath in.
Another tragedy would strikeyou or your family, could barely
(18:16):
get your breath in.
Another tragedy would strikeyou or your family.
And how do you live when youdon't know what's next, without
constantly waiting for the nextheartache to happen.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah, that's a great question.
There are a couple of things.
When my son, matthew, presentedwith seizures, it was really
hard to know whether or not hewould outgrow them or not.
I've been told that there was agood chance that he could
outgrow them, but the way theytold us, you know that we just
(18:47):
have to see if the seizurescontinued or not.
So a therapist in the hospitalsaid, you know, when you don't
know what's next, when there'suncertainty ahead, she said have
you tried parallel paths?
Oh, yes, and she said well, youlook at the situation and you
(19:09):
look at the two obvious outcomes.
There may be more than that,but the two that you want, you
know, or the one that you wantfor sure, the hope path, which
is you hope he outgrows them andthen envision life like that.
What would life look like if hedid outgrow them and he resumed
normal progression?
And then, on the reality path,or the path you don't want, what
(19:34):
would life look like if hedoesn't?
And that just really calmed medown of this cycle and gave me
paths I could journey on.
Really at the same time, whatwould life look like if he was
able to come home and he resumednormal development.
Should I explore options if hecan't come home?
(19:56):
And what would that look like?
And so, either way, it kept memoving.
It wasn't cyclical, it wasmoving in directions.
Over time it became obvious thathe wasn't going to be able to.
You know, his seizurescontinued and that he was going
to be in a declining situation.
(20:17):
But I used that image ofparallel paths with my divorce.
Would we reconcile, would wenot, with my paralysis?
Would I walk, would I not?
And in that way, these twopaths, it kept me moving forward
.
(20:41):
And so when the one optionbecame obvious, then I'd already
done work on that.
It wasn't like, oh my gosh, Iwasn't prepared at all, but I
really think that that was ahelpful way for me to keep
moving, because I think keepingmoving is very important.
We risk isolation when we justspin.
And another thing I like to doI would I call them, put them on
(21:05):
a shelf.
You know, when things aretroubling, I have these shelves
in my mind.
It's like I'm not going to denythat this is an issue, but I'm
not going to look through itevery day.
I'm going to put it on theshelf in my mind.
It's like I'm not going to denythat this is an issue, but I'm
not going to look through itevery day.
I'm going to put it on theshelf in my mind and then worry
about that another time.
But then do what's next in mylife.
To live fully in the life I dohave when I don't know what's
(21:28):
ahead, and then spend time inthat.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, I read in your book, I think, something about
your dad said put pegs in yourbrain or something and put it on
the.
You know, put it on the peg forlater.
And it was such a great visualand it really did help because I
was like, oh yeah, I'm going tostart doing that.
I'm just going to put pegs inmy brain and put those you know
be pretty compartmentalized.
(21:52):
Put those you know be prettycompartmentalized.
You know, one of the things inyour story was you had multiple
miscarriages and you also, youknow, there was so much going on
in your family at the time andI remember you describing how
you'd see other families and Ithink it was at the doctors or
something and you saw that theywere happy.
(22:13):
And even though you spoke aboutyour family to others at times
and it was, yeah, it's perfect Iremember that word perfect
because you were also carryingso much pain at the time and you
were juggling Matthew'shospital care, madison's early
autism needs, peter's challengesat the beginning and Brittany's
(22:35):
energy, you know, all at onceand it was so much.
How do you hold gratitude andgrief at the same time?
Do you try to separate the goodfrom the bad or do they live
together?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I think they live together.
It's all about focus, focus,and I think it's important to um
acknowledge that pain when yousee kind of the perfect family
or, um, you know the perfectsituation that you wish you
could do and and somebodyenjoying something that you once
(23:10):
did and you can no longer dothe whole thing.
Other children develop fullyand and, um, two of yours are
not.
So I think that, again, I Ihave to be honest about that
hurts, you know that hurts.
It's like you know, becausethere's envy, there's jealousy,
(23:31):
all of those feelings.
But to touch them and go, youknow like yep feel that.
But you know what?
Try to experience your joy withthem.
You know, to experiencesomething that you may not have.
But just because you don't haveit doesn't mean it doesn't have
value to experience.
So that's when I'm at my bestself.
(23:54):
When I'm not at my best self,maybe, maybe I take some time
away from that and I don'texpose myself to that too much
if it's, if it's if I'm too raw,if I'm not strong enough to be
to embrace that joy.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
But it's a tough situation I live a little bit
similar to that in that, youknow, I've adopted five kids and
three of my the three littlesall have autism.
I adopted them when they had alot of trauma and one is, you
(24:28):
know, really has a difficulttime in general and she's really
having a rough time.
And the other two, one Ihomeschool, one is on the lower
end of the functioning and eventhough he just turned 12,
today's his birthday he, youknow, operates at probably like
(24:49):
a five-year-old level and wejust love him to death.
He is just the sweetest kid andI just love.
He's got the best heart.
But you know, he wants so badlyto play football with his peers
and to go out and do thosethings.
And I look on Facebook and it'skind of like this thing where I
don't even want to look, youknow, because those I wish
(25:11):
statements, feelings, thoughtscome into my head and I just
want to say, you know, yeah, Iknow how much he wants that.
I wish he could have that.
So you know we have him inspecial needs, baseball and all
that other stuff and I mean hejust absolutely loves it.
But you know I'm going to behonest those times they do hurt
(25:35):
when you see other families andwhat they're able to do and you
know that you're just not ableto and your kids can't
experience those typical things.
So it's hard.
And I mean, can you talk abouthow it feels to celebrate others
when you privately carry loss?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
You know when I can get the right mindset to do that
.
And I think you're right aboutsocial media.
I think we all see you know thebright and shiny things, and so
sometimes I limit myself tothat.
But if I have friends thatreally have a lot to celebrate,
I try to just minimize, you know, my grief and my, my pain, to
(26:18):
try to celebrate with them,because there's again it's a
distraction from what you've gotgoing on to say let me lean in
fully to what they'reexperiencing and see if and be
more appreciative about what'sgoing on with them and and just
embrace it.
And yeah, I think it's worththat.
If you're secure enough to dothat, if you're fragile and I
(26:42):
think that's a big, big point toassess yourself Like, are you
strong enough to do that today?
Maybe you don't feel well,maybe you're not feeling well do
that today.
Maybe you don't feel well,maybe you're not feeling well.
I think all of those thingsaffect our strength to handle
things that might be difficult.
(27:03):
So, self-assess first, and thenyou can lean into it, do it,
and I think you'll be glad youdid.
I think it's something you canappreciate.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
About stretching yourself yeah, I really like to
be other people's cheerleadersand that's what I try to do and
I think that that helps be ableto step outside and, you know,
just be other people'scheerleaders.
And sometimes, like you said, Ihave to kind of analyze and,
(27:40):
you know, assess where I am atthe moment and say, ok, I can do
that.
No, today I can't and it's okay, it's, both are okay,
absolutely yeah.
So you wrote so openly aboutfeeling isolated during some
hard times.
Like many women, you know, wecarry the appointments, the
hospital stays, the sleeplessnights, the hospital stays the
sleepless nights, often whenyour husband was busy doing him,
and you know how do you handlethe loneliness that comes from
(28:07):
actively holding up a familythat needed so much and you did
it alone.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Well, you know, I say you know you alone can do it,
but you can't do it alone and Ihad a lot of people vote for me,
with me, big support.
My church was a big support,neighbors that would reach out,
and I think it's a woman tocultivate a community around
(28:30):
yourself so that you don't feelalone.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
That's so important.
You know, my husband actuallylives in a separate place
because it's too hard for himand I in one sense understand,
but in the other, sometimes Ibeg him to just come and take
the kids and go do somethingwith them.
You know, get involved a littlebit, but you know, when you
(28:54):
felt, was it you, you know, wereyou unlovable?
I kind of felt that a littlebit and I went to that.
Oh my gosh, I had no idea that80% of marriages with special
needs kids fail.
I didn't know, that's huge, butI really do think that some of
(29:15):
us can handle the hard and justsome of us can't.
I mean, that just seems what itcomes down to sometimes.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yes, it's hard to know your capacity for things
until you're in it, and it'shard to know another person's
capacity for things as well.
I don't think you can predictthose things until you know you
can't.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
No, no, and you and your husband did.
You know.
You grew apart and divorcebecame the answer and suddenly
you were a single mom of fourand I wanted to just reach
through the pages and give you ahug, because you know, your dad
always says trust the processand I cannot tell you how many
times I say that you alwayschose the hard road, even when
(30:02):
the easier road was right infront of you at times.
And sometimes you know,especially as moms, you know we
just we don't see the otheroption, we don't see the choice.
What do you think helped youtrust those hard instincts and
go the hard road, even when youdidn't know the outcome?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I think a lot of times we want to put up barriers
and walls and I can do itmyself or I don't need this
person in my life, or we tend tobe final about some things,
particularly if we've been hurtor felt betrayed.
But I think that what helped mewas really leaning into love.
(30:46):
You know, one of the thingsthat I had told Brittany and her
husband to be their marriage,to let their love be larger.
Let love be larger than theircircumstance, than any of the
things that threaten theirrelationship, and I've tried to
(31:09):
live that.
It's not always easy, but Ifeel like that power of love can
really help you accept thethings you can't change and
create relationships with peoplethat maybe don't make sense
exactly, but it makes sense foryou because it's a greater good
(31:31):
for you.
That and it's, you know, notthe first person to say the
power of love, but, um, lettingyour love be larger is is really
when I get my best self.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
that's what I lean into that was one of my favorite
.
There were so many different,you know favorite parts of the
book, but that was one of myfavorite parts of the book is
when you you know you didn'tknow what you would say to them
at the wedding, but then youwrote this thing down on let
your love be larger than, largerthan adversity, larger than.
(32:08):
And I was just like, oh my gosh, that is just so beautiful and
it made me wonder if you had somany things happen to you that
tried to take you down.
But I just wondered if maybe itwas that love was larger than
this and love was larger thanthat, you know, and it just
maybe love is what got youthrough.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I think so.
You know, I got to experiencethat in my home.
(32:51):
We struggled after Forrest'sdeath.
Our family shattered, my fatherhad taken a new pastorate in
another state and so wephysically weren't together.
And then we grieved differently.
I became a noted lecturer ongrief, as well as speaking from
(33:14):
the pulpit writing about it.
My mom was much more privateand was in support groups for
women who had lost children, andI was with my college buddies
who helped me move through griefin their own way structure and
activity.
But my sister wanted to be withhim.
(33:35):
They were 17 months apart andshe said they had to get her
specialized counseling for her.
So I think that we continued tolove each other even though we
were in different places ingrief and different physical
places.
We figured out ways to befamily through small things.
(33:58):
My dad would send me his sermontapes, my mom would be sending
me little notes at school thatwould have sticks of chewing gum
in them and some stampsencouraged me to write her.
And so you just kind of becreative during those periods of
awkwardness to cutting to packwith people, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
How do you?
You know your father's finaldays, which you know things can
be hard and beautiful at thesame time and you know he shared
something with you that wasdeeply profound.
And could you share what hesaid and how those words
(34:44):
impacted you?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah.
So they had told us that dadwas probably not going to get
better.
He was in the hospital andkidney cancer had come back and
he was lucid.
(35:06):
But he brought mom and dad.
He brought Rachel and myselfand my mom together and we had a
little prayer together and thenhe said I want you guys to
remember to take care ofyourselves.
It wasn't take care of eachother, which I like.
(35:30):
I look at Rachel and say canyou say it?
Can you say it about ourselves?
I looked at Rachel and said canyou say it to yourself?
And yes, it was like wait aminute.
I felt sure he was going to saytake care of each other, but it
drove home the point that untilwe take care of ourselves, we
really can't take care of otherpeople.
(35:50):
You know, the airlines tell youto put the oxygen mask on.
Yes, I thought of that.
Yes, before you help yourchildren, and of course you want
to help your children first,but it doesn't do them any good
if you passed out for lack ofoxygen.
So I think that reallyemphasized to me self-care and
(36:12):
self-compassion and figuring outyou know what's in my best
interest to do.
For me it sounds selfish, butthe truth is, you can't be
really functional if your healthisn't good.
And I have this thing where wesay you know what's the most
important thing for you rightnow and the most important thing
(36:33):
for you in general?
And for me, it's my health.
You know, I can't do anythingif I can't get my wheelchair and
go anywhere or I can't get outof bed, or you know, my health
is very important to me and sothat helps me prioritize things
about what I need to do today.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, that's really amazing that you know it's
always perspective shifts andit's always learning as we go,
and you've had many differentseasons for you to do that.
Life is full of decisions and Ithink most of us, especially as
parents, second guess ourselvesmore than we'd ever admit.
I'm doing that all the time.
(37:14):
When your son, Matthew, neededmedically fragile foster care,
you had to make an incrediblyhard but necessary choice to
place him where he could receivethe care that he needed and
deserved.
You shared that.
Your parents told you theywould have done the same if
Forrest had survived and neededthat level of care.
I thought that that was soamazing that they said that to
(37:34):
you.
How did having their support,especially in that kind of
moment and through your life,help you trust that you were
making the right decisions as amother?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
It was affirming way, encouraging that it was okay to
operate not only in Matthew'sbest interest but in our
family's interest, becausethat's what mom had said.
I said specifically you knowwhat would you have done with
(38:07):
Forrest?
And she said I would have madethe right decision that was in
Forrest's best interest and thefamily.
And to include the family inthe best interest thinking
process really expanded that,because I couldn't care for
Matthew by myself.
And what would that mean if Itried to do that School?
(38:31):
Does that mean learningtechniques?
And how would that affect theother children that I had too?
Mm-hmm.
So it really encouraged me toconsider the family unit as we
made decisions.
So I found it a great relieffor them to be that honest with
(38:52):
me about what they would havedone.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, it doesn't surprise me.
I mean, you guys all workedtogether as a team.
It felt you guys all supportedeach other throughout everything
that you were going through inlife and I just thought that
that was a beautiful thing.
Your parents just seemed likethey were beautiful people.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
They were amazing and in many ways I credit the way
they handled forest.
The loss of forest has given mekind of a front row seat to how
do you get through all thelosses you could ever expect.
So there were things I learnedfrom them.
I didn't even realize I learnedfrom them until I had to cope
with it myself.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Sure, sure, I mean, that's what happens.
You know, your dad had otherpowerful words.
He said happiness lies in thedifference between being struck
by a challenge and being stuckin a challenge.
And that really hit me becausethat again is another
perspective shift.
I think we all have momentswhere we need to kind of pause
and catch our breath and just bestill for a while, but I don't
(40:00):
call that stuck.
Did you ever feel stuck duringtimes when there was progress?
Or maybe you felt like youweren't really moving because
you couldn't see it or feel it,but you were doing everything
that you could.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, you know, I came up with this idea of the
power of better, you know, orjust better moments, and so it's
like what was different abouttoday than yesterday?
One small thing that got better.
It may not have been the best,it may not have been achieved my
goal, but did something getbetter?
(40:38):
Did I, you know, take the dogout on time, or get the dog out,
you know, early enough for him,or did I wake up without the
alarm clock, or did I make atiny bit of progress?
And I let that count, you know,I let that count that I was
able to do something a littletiny bit better than the day
(40:59):
before.
And just seeing that progress,you know, I had a gratitude
journal that I was doing threethings I was grateful for every
day and I said, well, you knowwhat I'm going to track three
things that were better todaythan yesterday.
So that encouraged that forwardmovement to me.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
You know what, making it that small sometimes is what
we have to do.
Sometimes we can only payattention to the step in front
of us or the step that we justtook.
Sometimes it is just reallyhoning in on a smaller amount of
time.
I really like that Madison'sjourney with autism.
(41:40):
Of course, autism is veryspecial to my heart, of course,
but her story really touched meas an autistic adult as well,
and I love how you celebratedher voice after she started ABA
and I loved her place in thefamily.
I loved how Brittany wanted toinclude her in the wedding and
(42:02):
the way that that happened, andthen the photos that were taken
and it made me think of yourkids that helped hold you up,
because they seemed to all holdeach other up and you held them
up.
But what were the parts thathelped?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
hold you up.
You know they kept growing.
It was like I was waiting toknow, especially after paralysis
.
I was waiting to figure outwhen was I going to walk again.
But you know they had theirneeds.
They were three, five, sevenand nine when I was I going to
walk again?
But you know they had theirneeds.
They were three, five, sevenand nine.
When I was paralyzed, madisonneeded.
Uh well, at the time that was1997 and so there wasn't a whole
(42:45):
lot about autism.
And this is, um, when I hadreached out to a fellow parent,
sent home this yellow flyer inMadison's backpack and that
taught us about ABA or invitedus to her home to learn about
ABA therapy.
We used that with Madison andthen later, that transaction of
(43:10):
sharing information that wasn'tavailable through a doctor or
educator, that became the basisof Pathfinders for Autism and
that put me on that track.
You know to work with that, youknow toward that, for two or
three years before it wasincorporated.
So her needs helped me journeythrough my waiting of if I was
(43:33):
going to walk again.
So it was nice to redirect myenergy instead of all about me
to how can I help Madison.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
That was so important .
I love that part of the storyand that the Baltimore Orioles
wives ended up, you know,raising $100,000, which was the
most that they had raised atthat time.
And then even Michael Phelps,here he is, he jumps on board as
an honorary member and then aradio spot for you.
I thought that that was sogreat.
Can you talk more about that?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Sure.
So we in the early days we werejust a small group of parents
sharing information.
We're trying to share ourdiscoveries.
And then in 2000, we wereincorporated.
We hired our first employee whohad a child with autism,
because at the time everybodywas saying wait and see what
(44:25):
happens and we had wanted peopleto get as many resources as
they could and talk to anotherparent on the phone.
This was way before Google orthe internet or social media,
right, absolutely.
So we started out that way,with just a person answering the
phone, and we developed adatabase.
(44:45):
And then we created specialevents to try to help raise
money.
And now you know we serve20,000 people a year with oh my
gosh.
Yes, some family events wherepeople can go and feel safe
going to the aquarium with theirkids with autism, or gardens,
or different activities we have,and we also train first
(45:08):
responders.
You know, okay, emts, your nextencounter is going to be with a
person with autism.
You know how would you respond?
How can you be sensitized totheir needs?
So it's been great In 25 years.
This year is our 25thanniversary.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Oh my gosh, Can I ask how Madison is doing?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
She's doing well.
She's still as she's 33, shestill can't read or write or
ever be left alone, but she'sdoing very well in a residential
group home, and then she has aday program as well, where she's
out in the community everysingle day.
Oh that's just great she's outin the community every single
(45:54):
day.
Oh, that's just great, beinggrateful for those support
services that PathFoundersactually helped me find.
So they're still finding pathsfor no matter what age, because
it seems like they always haveneeds that are at least outside
my capacity to handle.
So it's good to have safety netthere to help you.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
It's inside my capacity to handle, so it's good
to have a safety net there tohelp you.
That's interesting that youcalled it Pathfinders, because
you had this thing about pathsyou know two different paths and
then you created that.
You just took coffee containersand you drew these circles
interlocking and then youcreated this logo and then you
(46:33):
came up with this.
I mean, you were just sothinking outside of the box and
trying to do something insteadof just sit in the pain, and I
just thought that that wasamazing that you did that.
And look, I mean, you're stillnow, 25 years later.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
That's so great, yeah , and the path keeps going, and
I think that the idea of a pathis that sometimes it's just
finding the path.
They're already out there, wejust don't know about them.
So it's bringing it to lightout there, but most often their
(47:11):
resources is just getting it ina place that people can discover
it.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Rewarding experience.
We have an amazing staff nowthat are so helpful and have so
much expertise.
Is it just within the Baltimorearea or is it nationwide, or is
it pretty local?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
It is a statewide organization, but our database
serves people from all over theworld.
Oh my gosh, yes, so you can goto pathfindersforautismorg and
go on there and search.
You can search by age what ageyour child is and what services
are recommended.
We have resources on therewhich are primarily in the
(47:55):
Maryland area, but there's some.
You know we screen theresources we add to our database
and we're open to otherscontributing too.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
That's right.
I might have to look it up whenI get off of here.
So, with your paths andRethinking Possible, when you
talked earlier about twodifferent paths, you also did
that with your own life when youwere in the wheelchair and one
if you would never walk againand one if you could and I
(48:28):
thought that that was brilliant.
Was that your way of also that?
You know creating these twopaths, and I think you already
might have answered thisquestion but was it your way of
forward thinking during a timeof acceptance?
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yes, absolutely.
That is how I kept myselfmoving, because it was too hard
to just wonder all the time.
And I think that you know, asWinston Churchill says, when
you're going through, keep going.
And to keep going.
I needed to feel like that Icould make progress.
(49:04):
So I did the parallel pathswhat happens if I can walk, what
happens if I couldn't?
And then you know, I had amoment that I decided to give up
on walking.
This was 19 months in and Ithink we had talked about kind
(49:28):
of my big toe moment, where Idecided that was the last thing
I could wiggle before theparalysis was complete, was my
left big toe.
And after 19 months of therapythree times a week, I really
(49:48):
wasn't making any progress and Idecided to just let go of that.
And so I stopped my therapy andI was able to lean in more fully
to a life as a paraplegic, alife as a paraplegic mom.
And I realized, looking back,that therapy three times a week
(50:09):
had taken me away from my kidsat the dinner hour for three
nights a week.
So I said, well, I have thattime now, and so I was like
we're going to do what I couldremember from my mom's days and
we had candles with our dinnerand I played music.
This was back with the CD clubs, so I bought a bunch of CDs
(50:32):
that were funky disco that Iloved in my college days, and
then jazz and then classical andI felt like I was creating
another environment for us to befamily together.
But I think we all in lifesometimes have these big toe
moments where it's like you'vegot to.
It's time to let go ofsomething that's not going to be
(50:56):
a reality for your, for yourlife.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, I think it's that leaning into acceptance
instead of resistance.
You know I mean that that's ahard place to be.
It's crossing that line overinto fully acceptance, I think.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
It is hard.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
You know, acceptance also had a different take for me
.
In your book Matthew had and allhe had gone through and your
miscarriages and after yourdaughter, madison's challenges
and Peter's and trying to manageas a single parent in a
wheelchair trying to manage as asingle parent in a wheelchair
(51:37):
you know your entire story ofnow you have your brother had
passed, your dad had passed, yougot the call about your mom and
you say you went right toacceptance.
You had spent a lifetime ofhearing these horrible news,
this horrible news, and thengoing through maybe the grief
process or whatever the stepsthat you need to go to, but then
you went straight to acceptanceand it made me realize that I
(52:03):
too have been through so manythings in my life that I think
sometimes we just go straight toacceptance and it's like that
we become robots to pain andit's just okay, I know the drill
and you just go through themotions Okay, now we got to do
this, we got the funeral,whatever and you just are just
(52:26):
so numb to it and it's moresomething like that.
I don't know, is that how youfelt?
Yeah, is that how you felt?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (52:34):
I think that sometimes when you have this
unexpected event, that'shorrific, and then you move to
this why, why did this happen?
I don't deserve this.
This isn't fair, All thisemotional fog, but after a while
you realize that that doesn'treally do you any good.
(52:56):
You know an emotional thing,you need to process it, but at
the moment you need to get anaction.
For what is the next step?
What are things that need to do?
And I call it this pivot fromwhy need to do and I call it
this pivot from why and why didall this happen?
(53:18):
And all the angst and outragethat you feel with that why to
how, how are you going to do itand how puts you into acceptance
mode.
And just that change ofquestion from why to how gets
you more in acceptance and, Ithink, helps you move through it
more, maybe efficiently.
That doesn't mean that youcan't come back to why at some
(53:41):
point.
But we knew our mother had hada serious illness.
We didn't know why we didn't.
You know there's a lot moremystery that there was to
investigate.
But Rachel got there and I knewwhat I I needed to do to
address the situation.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Yeah, and I think going from why to how gives you
that sense of control.
You know it's like all of asudden you can do something with
the why.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Yeah, you park that why and come back to it, but
your how it puts you in problemsolving.
It does it, does Wandering,pondering.
You're just going to.
All right, let's do it.
You know what do you need to do?
Damn in your resources.
Who can help you?
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Yeah, that's what you do.
That's what we do it is.
You know, one of the thingsthat I absolutely loved about
your family was that you foundways to celebrate and have fun,
and your family's sense of humorcarried all of you, I believe,
(54:51):
when your dad did whatever hedid in the van, you know, and
you're going to, you got thisvan, you're going to go drive it
for the first time and you'rein there your mom's, I guess, in
the passenger seat that's how Ipictured it and your dad does
something and you just tip backand you're staring at the
ceiling and you look over atyour mom, who's backs to you and
her shoulders are shaking and Ithought she was going to be
crying.
And she turns around and she'slike hysterically laughing.
(55:11):
I was like that is awesome.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
She didn't say are you okay, baby?
First, before she startedlaughing.
But she was.
You know, it was the perfectcombination.
Dad could tell a joke I mean,he was a jokester, he just was
and mother couldn't tell a joketo save her life.
She'd tell you the punchlinebefore she would tell you the
story.
But she had this we call ittickle box meltdown, where she
(55:42):
would just cry With tears, shewould just be laughing so she
couldn't talk.
And it really was funny becauseI was on my back and at the
time I was wearing these patentleather Dr Martin shoes.
I was looking up at the ceilingand there were my legs.
Of course I can't move my legs,but they're hanging above me.
Thank heavens I had my seatbelton.
(56:03):
So it was—Dad was trying to usethe hand controls of my car,
which are—you know, you have tobe trained to use these things.
Well, he just doesn't—he skipsahead sometimes when he's
looking at directions.
So he just hit that thing andthe van lurched forward and I
went backward and she was apuddle of tears.
(56:26):
But we really had a lot ofhumor in our household.
We did had a lot of humor inour, in our house.
So we did.
And when you were talking aboutbeing stuck or struck.
I had written a warning fuelentry about that, because I used
it when uh that, that thatphrase when rachel had come to
(56:47):
visit me during uh, I think itwas late March one year.
Anyway, we had a surprisesnowstorm and she couldn't leave
, she couldn't fly back home,and we were stuck, you know.
And instead of being stuck, wedecided to go out and play in
the snow.
So I did, you know, donuts withmy wheelchair and snow angels.
(57:11):
That is so fun, you know.
We were struck by the challengeinstead of being stuck in it.
So this gave us a lighter wayto look at life, because
sometimes it's just so crazy,it's funny.
You know, how can all thisstuff happen?
What's, you know?
Why not laugh about it?
(57:32):
We were overcome, you know, bygrief and by anger.
We can be overcome by laughtertoo.
That counts.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Right, right.
And I read that passage inMorning Fuel and it was really
funny.
I pictured you doing that.
Yeah, it was great.
And you're right, you just haveto make the best of it.
You just have to.
I mean, life is happening.
You might as well laugh alongthe way and you had a dance
party after your divorce.
I mean that was awesome.
(58:01):
And also the picture in my mindof you trying to get ready in
the bathroom with your friendand your sister for that wedding
, and you know what it washilarious yeah, they, uh.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
We never did that again, but it was just the floor
and had a friend pulling me upand rachel shoving me to the
side.
But uh, yeah, uh, it was a aninteresting time in the bathroom
.
Well, it made a memory right.
Speaker 1 (58:31):
Yes, this is the end of part one.
What an incredible, raw journeywe've just walked through with
the phenomenal Rebecca GalliFrom the depths of unimaginable
grief, loss and paralysis to alife fueled by intention,
gratitude and unshakableresilience.
Rebecca doesn't just talk abouthope, she lives it.
Her words remind us that evenwhen life knocks us flat
(58:53):
physically, emotionally orspiritually, we can get back up.
Even if it looks different thanbefore.
We can find purpose in theaftermath.
We can let our love be largerthan our pain.
So if you're in a season thatfeels impossible, where the
weight feels too heavy and theroad too long, let Rebecca's
story remind you you are notalone and you are not without
(59:15):
power.
You may have to rethink what'spossible, but that doesn't mean
it isn't possible.
If this episode touched you, goto grab Rebecca's books,
rethinking Possible and MourningFuel.
Maybe take a moment to write tosomeone who's shown up for you
in your darkest moments because,as we learned today real love,
honest words and purposefulaction they ripple further than
(59:38):
we could ever imagine.
Part two will be next week.
Until next time, this is RealTalk, where we meet the hardest
parts of life with open hearts,honest words and a whole lot of
resilience.
Take care of yourself, let yourlove be larger, and we'll see
you next time.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne and today we have oneof the most incredible voices
that we have had on the podcast.
Rebecca Galli is a best-sellingauthor and a columnist of over
400 columns.
She has written two booksRethinking Possible, a Memoir of
Resilience, and a dailyinspirational book, morning Fuel
(00:31):
.
Rebecca, I have read everysingle word of your first book,
rethinking Possible, and I'mfollowing along in your daily
inspirational book, morning Fuel.
I've read a lot of books and Ihave met a lot of people.
I can honestly say the more Ihave read about your story and
learned about who you are as aperson.
(00:53):
I am so honored to meet you andto have you on Now you're
bringing me to tears.
Speaker 2 (01:00):
Thank you so much.
A pleasure to be able toconnect with you.
I know it took us a while toget this arranged and I'm
honored to be on your show.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (01:09):
Well, I want to talk about your story from Rethinking
Possible while we talk aboutmorning fuel, because the wisdom
on the papers in yourinspirational book is earned.
Every single, every single page.
To put a list of what you havegone through does not do it
justice and you have to readyour story and I'm encouraging
(01:32):
all of our listeners to pick upboth books At the beginning of
Morning Fuel which, by the way,I start with my Starbucks too
and I love my Starbucks and yourwords speak to me and your dad
was right Writing is a gift thatyou have been, you have picked
up from him probably.
(01:54):
I mean, he was a man of words.
I would love to talk about thewords from your dad, your mom,
your brother and you in thepodcast, dad, your mom, your
brother and you in the podcast.
You started your inspirationalbook with these words.
Some would say life has not beenkind to me.
I lost my 17-year-old brotherand his name was Forrest.
(02:15):
Two of my four children hadspecial needs.
One of my two sons died at age15, and his name was Matthew,
and at 38, nine days after mydivorce was finalized, I was
paralyzed by transverse myelitis, if I'm saying that right, a
rare inflammation of the spinalcord that affects one in a
(02:40):
million, and it's been hard topower through and live fully in
this life.
I did not choose, but I'velearned that how I start my day
sets the tone for how I getthrough the day.
You know who I thought aboutwhen I was reading these and I'm
(03:00):
going to just say this before Iask any questions because as I
read that, I thought about yourmom sitting in the kitchen, you
know, sitting there with youdrinking coffee and just giving
you her wisdom.
I thought about your dad andhim standing up there at the
pulpit and his words of wisdom,and I thought about Forrest and
(03:23):
his last words, and you knowwhat that must have meant.
I saw your sister, rachel'sarms, holding you up in the
bathroom, you know, and I justwas laughing.
And I saw your strength, astrength I've not seen before.
I saw your kids.
I saw your son Peter reflectingon life.
I saw your kids.
(03:43):
I saw your son Peter reflectingon life.
I saw your daughter Brittany'sheart.
I saw Madison's autism flarefor life, which I'm autistic and
three of my kids are autistic,so I absolutely appreciate her
story.
And I saw Matthew's beautifuleyes looking up at you.
You know, with his, you knowbeautiful brown eyes, and even
(04:05):
though that he was medicallyfragile.
And you know, I just saweverything in your life right
there on the pages in thesebooks and I also saw our stories
you know, everybody's storiesright there on the pages, and
that was what was so beautifulabout it, because you know, you
(04:26):
are more than a million.
I think every family has apiece of your story.
Your pain is so deep, but yetyou live each day with intention
, positivity and incrediblegratitude, which is what you say
.
But everybody understands whatit's like to take care of a
child, or to have a hurt, or tohave a loss or a death or
(04:46):
somebody that you know.
Your child is really having ahard time and you're having a
hard time being able to get tothem or take care of their needs
, and I think every single oneof us can relate.
So thank you so much forwriting this.
Speaker 2 (04:59):
And that's well.
It was therapeutic.
It was part of the journeyreally, something I started
early on, just the power oflassoing those thoughts and
putting them down so they don'tjust bother you all the time.
So it's been a therapeuticjourney through writing and then
now connecting with people.
It's amazing how that's helpedme connect to others that to
(05:27):
others.
Speaker 1 (05:27):
Yeah, I bet I mean yeah, you get to help yourself
while helping them and yourstory really does help other
people.
You know your dad once saidhear dad's words, I'll tell you
what.
What is planned is possible.
And I love your title becauserethinking possible.
It's so perfect because theonly thing that seemed to go
your way was that you had fourkids.
(05:49):
The rest of your life tooktwists and turns that you had no
control over and you wereliving a life that just was.
You had to be and figure it outas life just happened.
But throughout both books, yourfamily's words, your words, I
think, were lifelines.
Your brother had beautifulwords that he said before he
(06:12):
passed away at age 17.
Could you share what thosewords were and how that helped
you, help carry you in your life?
Speaker 2 (06:19):
Yeah, so my brother was 17.
I mean, he was that kid.
He was president of the studentbody, he was a musician, he was
a church leader, he was anathlete.
He had great plans to go toWake Forest University, get into
politics, become a senator,lawyer, you know all this.
And he was definitely doingthat thing what's planned as
(06:41):
possible.
And we grew up with that mantra.
And one of the last things thathe did before he went water
skiing which is where he had hisaccent was to write his essay
to Wake Forest University.
And one of the last questionsthey asked was you know, tell us
about your family.
And he did, and he expressedhis contentment with the family.
(07:07):
But his last words of thatessay and they wound up being
his last written words were Iwould change nothing and it
still gets up If he only lived17 years.
But still write that and, as asister, see him live that.
(07:34):
Yeah, what an accomplishment,even in 17 years.
Right, it's always been achallenge to me.
You know, before I lay my lay,my head on my pillow, you know,
is there anything I regret today?
I would change nothing.
Can I say that about the day?
Speaker 1 (07:51):
So it's really been something really precious that
he left us with yeah, a lot ofpeople don't get something like
that.
And to know that that's how hefelt.
That's just so beautiful.
I mean, it was like it wasmeant to be.
Speaker 2 (08:06):
Yes, I hate to.
And there's a part of the book,the Rethinking Possible where I
get really angry about thosewords because they weren't the
words I would have chose and Iwould have changed so many
things of the day that we losthim.
You know he wasn't lookingwhere he was going or he was
distracted, or you know all thethings I would have changed.
(08:29):
So it's an interesting study inthe emotions that happen around
loss.
You know where there's thismixed things.
I'm glad he was content, butI'm so.
Yeah, it was just so much toabsorb that I'd lost him like
that.
So it was.
It's been still even a toughloss.
(08:52):
Now I read that section when Ido some book talks and I'll give
myself a high five if I getthrough that without crying.
Speaker 1 (09:02):
But yeah, some profound words for a 17-year-old
and I think that's normal forus.
When there's a loss, lots oftimes and it's something like
that, you know where it's like.
Well, if I just would have beenthere at this time, if I just
would have said something beforethey went that way, or whatever
(09:23):
you know, I mean, survivor'sguilt is a real thing.
Yes, I like waking up andlooking at words like yours in
the morning because I think thatit's really important.
It helps us get outside of ourhead.
It helps us, you know, startour day correctly.
For myself, I mean, howimportant is it for you or for
(09:45):
other people why you wrote thisinspiring book for them to wake
up and want to go to it and pickit up and say you know what?
This is where I want to startmy day every morning, and even
if they just need to pick me upduring the day, yeah, it was a
practice of mine after I wrotethe first book.
Speaker 2 (10:06):
A lot of the questions I would get would be
you know, how do you do it, howdo we keep going?
And one of the things I doevery morning is pick from
several daily readers and havethat with my coffee, you know,
and I journal a little bit, Iread some more, I do some
(10:39):
reflection and I really try tostart it on the most positive
way.
And then sometimes I don't getto it first time, you know,
first thing in the morning, butit's a good power boost, you
know.
Just sometimes I think we getso caught up in it could be just
busyness, or even they startsliding downhill a little bit,
(11:05):
and this provides kind of adistraction, a separation from
whatever's going on, so that youcan kind of pull yourself back,
regroup and maybe get adifferent thought in your mind.
Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, and they're short, you know.
So I mean it's super nice to beable to just pick it up and be
able to go take your thoughts ina different direction.
I mean it really does help.
Thank you.
Now can you talk a little bit?
Because your life, I mean itwent on a pretty rough course
and it's not the life that youreally do plan.
(11:39):
So can you talk a little bitabout that real life, the kind
that takes us down Niagara Fallswhen we are not looking and you
know we have no boat, and itjust takes us down and we're
trying to find our way to thesurface and take a breath.
Speaker 2 (12:17):
I had really big shock absorbers, you know, and
whatever is coming along, thatI've enlarged my group of
friends, enlarged my plans sothat I'm not trapped to that.
You just you have to accept thesituation whatever it is up
front.
You have to realize that I'm ina place I didn't plan.
And then I think the next stepis to be very honest about
(12:37):
what's your capability to dealwith the situation.
Can you manage it by yourself?
And if you can't bring inpeople I like to call it who's
in your boat, you know who canhelp you get through this storm,
that you'll equip to manage,and it may be family, it may be
(12:58):
friends, it may be professionaltherapists, it may be clergy,
but people that can support youin the particular situation
you're in.
And it's actually, through theyears, been surprising that that
crew changes.
When we lost our parents,rachel and I were trying to
(13:23):
comfort each other and werealized after the death of our
father that we couldn't reallycomfort each other because we
were in our own grief and so weneeded to expand our pool of
people in our boat because wejust made each other sadder
(13:44):
instead of trying to help eachother cope.
And I think that that's not afirst thought that you think
your family should be through.
They're the ones that know youbest.
They should be able to supportyou, but in the same grief,
chances are they may not be thebest person to get you through
(14:05):
it.
So then, that idea ofdetermining who can be helpful
to you as you navigate throughis a real core mode for me of
operating.
I'm constantly looking for whocan be helpful in a situation
like this and, to be honest,it's not always easy to ask for
help.
You know a lot of us like to doit on our own, but that's where
(14:32):
you need to be really honestabout your capacity to cope with
it by yourself.
Speaker 1 (14:35):
Right, and it's, you know, finding the right people
to allow in and that can be hard.
I mean, I'm in a situationright now where you know
somebody in my familydesperately needs help, and so
you know, it's really prayingtrying to figure out who the
right people are and being okaywith letting outside people in.
(14:59):
Probably, you know, lots oftimes in your life when you were
first paralyzed or when youwere, you know, and I heard that
somehow some of the peopletalked about you when you I read
that in the book.
You know, I don't think thatthat's okay and the people that
you're trusting, you want themto have the same heart as you.
(15:21):
You know you want them to be onthe same page as you with your
family and what you're trying todo and your grief, and it's
just not okay.
So it's hard.
Speaker 2 (15:31):
I say you can always uninvite them.
You just don't you know.
You kind of keep them out ofthe loop of information.
I love it.
Speaker 1 (15:41):
Uninvite them.
Well, I love that and I do dothat sometimes.
You know what we, like I saidearlier, with your dad and you
having this beautiful way ofbeing able to use words, and his
words were just alwayswonderful.
One of the things that he saidafter your brother passed away
(16:05):
was you will always walk with alimp, but you will walk.
And I mean for one thing thereis no one way to move forward.
And I instantly thought of howthose words changed for you when
you were no longer able to walk.
But I realized nothing in yourlife is traditional.
(16:28):
Definitions of moving forwardare just what they are.
You know they're alwayschanging, but you continue to
move forward.
So how did your dad's words oryour mom's words help you to
move forward during some of yourdarkest times?
Speaker 2 (16:45):
You know they wound up being these little pearls.
You know that they somethingterribly disruptive, just
unimaginable, and they somehow,with their way of looking at
things, made it palatable, mademe know that I could latch on to
(17:07):
what they were saying and walkwith a limp.
I thought about that.
You know I can't walk at all,but the meaning of that is that
it's okay to be wounded, it'sokay for pain, it's okay to have
a scar and have it impact you,that you're not flawed, you're
(17:30):
just moving through with whatlife gave you.
You're just moving through withwhat life gave you.
So I think that and that's theway, what did you say that I
think was timely, but alsotimeless in the way that he was
himself yes, look at itdifferently.
Speaker 1 (17:53):
I love that.
You know what do you do.
You said in Morning Fuel andthis was a great question what
do you do when you don't knowwhat's next?
You know you've lived in thatspace, I think, for years, and I
think many of us do.
You know not as extreme ofyours, of course, because you
literally could barely get yourbreath in.
Another tragedy would strikeyou or your family, could barely
(18:16):
get your breath in.
Another tragedy would strikeyou or your family.
And how do you live when youdon't know what's next, without
constantly waiting for the nextheartache to happen.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Yeah, that's a great question.
There are a couple of things.
When my son, matthew, presentedwith seizures, it was really
hard to know whether or not hewould outgrow them or not.
I've been told that there was agood chance that he could
outgrow them, but the way theytold us, you know that we just
(18:47):
have to see if the seizurescontinued or not.
So a therapist in the hospitalsaid, you know, when you don't
know what's next, when there'suncertainty ahead, she said have
you tried parallel paths?
Oh, yes, and she said well, youlook at the situation and you
(19:09):
look at the two obvious outcomes.
There may be more than that,but the two that you want, you
know, or the one that you wantfor sure, the hope path, which
is you hope he outgrows them andthen envision life like that.
What would life look like if hedid outgrow them and he resumed
normal progression?
And then, on the reality path,or the path you don't want, what
(19:34):
would life look like if hedoesn't?
And that just really calmed medown of this cycle and gave me
paths I could journey on.
Really at the same time, whatwould life look like if he was
able to come home and he resumednormal development.
Should I explore options if hecan't come home?
(19:56):
And what would that look like?
And so, either way, it kept memoving.
It wasn't cyclical, it wasmoving in directions.
Over time it became obvious thathe wasn't going to be able to.
You know, his seizurescontinued and that he was going
to be in a declining situation.
(20:17):
But I used that image ofparallel paths with my divorce.
Would we reconcile, would wenot, with my paralysis?
Would I walk, would I not?
And in that way, these twopaths, it kept me moving forward
.
(20:41):
And so when the one optionbecame obvious, then I'd already
done work on that.
It wasn't like, oh my gosh, Iwasn't prepared at all, but I
really think that that was ahelpful way for me to keep
moving, because I think keepingmoving is very important.
We risk isolation when we justspin.
And another thing I like to doI would I call them, put them on
(21:05):
a shelf.
You know, when things aretroubling, I have these shelves
in my mind.
It's like I'm not going to denythat this is an issue, but I'm
not going to look through itevery day.
I'm going to put it on theshelf in my mind.
It's like I'm not going to denythat this is an issue, but I'm
not going to look through itevery day.
I'm going to put it on theshelf in my mind and then worry
about that another time.
But then do what's next in mylife.
To live fully in the life I dohave when I don't know what's
(21:28):
ahead, and then spend time inthat.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Yeah, I read in your book, I think, something about
your dad said put pegs in yourbrain or something and put it on
the.
You know, put it on the peg forlater.
And it was such a great visualand it really did help because I
was like, oh yeah, I'm going tostart doing that.
I'm just going to put pegs inmy brain and put those you know
be pretty compartmentalized.
(21:52):
Put those you know be prettycompartmentalized.
You know, one of the things inyour story was you had multiple
miscarriages and you also, youknow, there was so much going on
in your family at the time andI remember you describing how
you'd see other families and Ithink it was at the doctors or
something and you saw that theywere happy.
(22:13):
And even though you spoke aboutyour family to others at times
and it was, yeah, it's perfect Iremember that word perfect
because you were also carryingso much pain at the time and you
were juggling Matthew'shospital care, madison's early
autism needs, peter's challengesat the beginning and Brittany's
(22:35):
energy, you know, all at onceand it was so much.
How do you hold gratitude andgrief at the same time?
Do you try to separate the goodfrom the bad or do they live
together?
Speaker 2 (22:50):
I think they live together.
It's all about focus, focus,and I think it's important to um
acknowledge that pain when yousee kind of the perfect family
or, um, you know the perfectsituation that you wish you
could do and and somebodyenjoying something that you once
(23:10):
did and you can no longer dothe whole thing.
Other children develop fullyand and, um, two of yours are
not.
So I think that, again, I Ihave to be honest about that
hurts, you know that hurts.
It's like you know, becausethere's envy, there's jealousy,
(23:31):
all of those feelings.
But to touch them and go, youknow like yep feel that.
But you know what?
Try to experience your joy withthem.
You know, to experiencesomething that you may not have.
But just because you don't haveit doesn't mean it doesn't have
value to experience.
So that's when I'm at my bestself.
(23:54):
When I'm not at my best self,maybe, maybe I take some time
away from that and I don'texpose myself to that too much
if it's, if it's if I'm too raw,if I'm not strong enough to be
to embrace that joy.
Speaker 1 (24:06):
But it's a tough situation I live a little bit
similar to that in that, youknow, I've adopted five kids and
three of my the three littlesall have autism.
I adopted them when they had alot of trauma and one is, you
(24:28):
know, really has a difficulttime in general and she's really
having a rough time.
And the other two, one Ihomeschool, one is on the lower
end of the functioning and eventhough he just turned 12,
today's his birthday he, youknow, operates at probably like
(24:49):
a five-year-old level and wejust love him to death.
He is just the sweetest kid andI just love.
He's got the best heart.
But you know, he wants so badlyto play football with his peers
and to go out and do thosethings.
And I look on Facebook and it'skind of like this thing where I
don't even want to look, youknow, because those I wish
(25:11):
statements, feelings, thoughtscome into my head and I just
want to say, you know, yeah, Iknow how much he wants that.
I wish he could have that.
So you know we have him inspecial needs, baseball and all
that other stuff and I mean hejust absolutely loves it.
But you know I'm going to behonest those times they do hurt
(25:35):
when you see other families andwhat they're able to do and you
know that you're just not ableto and your kids can't
experience those typical things.
So it's hard.
And I mean, can you talk abouthow it feels to celebrate others
when you privately carry loss?
Speaker 2 (25:54):
You know when I can get the right mindset to do that
.
And I think you're right aboutsocial media.
I think we all see you know thebright and shiny things, and so
sometimes I limit myself tothat.
But if I have friends thatreally have a lot to celebrate,
I try to just minimize, you know, my grief and my, my pain, to
(26:18):
try to celebrate with them,because there's again it's a
distraction from what you've gotgoing on to say let me lean in
fully to what they'reexperiencing and see if and be
more appreciative about what'sgoing on with them and and just
embrace it.
And yeah, I think it's worththat.
If you're secure enough to dothat, if you're fragile and I
(26:42):
think that's a big, big point toassess yourself Like, are you
strong enough to do that today?
Maybe you don't feel well,maybe you're not feeling well do
that today.
Maybe you don't feel well,maybe you're not feeling well.
I think all of those thingsaffect our strength to handle
things that might be difficult.
(27:03):
So, self-assess first, and thenyou can lean into it, do it,
and I think you'll be glad youdid.
I think it's something you canappreciate.
Speaker 1 (27:13):
About stretching yourself yeah, I really like to
be other people's cheerleadersand that's what I try to do and
I think that that helps be ableto step outside and, you know,
just be other people'scheerleaders.
And sometimes, like you said, Ihave to kind of analyze and,
(27:40):
you know, assess where I am atthe moment and say, ok, I can do
that.
No, today I can't and it's okay, it's, both are okay,
absolutely yeah.
So you wrote so openly aboutfeeling isolated during some
hard times.
Like many women, you know, wecarry the appointments, the
hospital stays, the sleeplessnights, the hospital stays the
sleepless nights, often whenyour husband was busy doing him,
and you know how do you handlethe loneliness that comes from
(28:07):
actively holding up a familythat needed so much and you did
it alone.
Speaker 2 (28:10):
Well, you know, I say you know you alone can do it,
but you can't do it alone and Ihad a lot of people vote for me,
with me, big support.
My church was a big support,neighbors that would reach out,
and I think it's a woman tocultivate a community around
(28:30):
yourself so that you don't feelalone.
Speaker 1 (28:33):
That's so important.
You know, my husband actuallylives in a separate place
because it's too hard for himand I in one sense understand,
but in the other, sometimes Ibeg him to just come and take
the kids and go do somethingwith them.
You know, get involved a littlebit, but you know, when you
(28:54):
felt, was it you, you know, wereyou unlovable?
I kind of felt that a littlebit and I went to that.
Oh my gosh, I had no idea that80% of marriages with special
needs kids fail.
I didn't know, that's huge, butI really do think that some of
(29:15):
us can handle the hard and justsome of us can't.
I mean, that just seems what itcomes down to sometimes.
Speaker 2 (29:24):
Yes, it's hard to know your capacity for things
until you're in it, and it'shard to know another person's
capacity for things as well.
I don't think you can predictthose things until you know you
can't.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
No, no, and you and your husband did.
You know.
You grew apart and divorcebecame the answer and suddenly
you were a single mom of fourand I wanted to just reach
through the pages and give you ahug, because you know, your dad
always says trust the processand I cannot tell you how many
times I say that you alwayschose the hard road, even when
(30:02):
the easier road was right infront of you at times.
And sometimes you know,especially as moms, you know we
just we don't see the otheroption, we don't see the choice.
What do you think helped youtrust those hard instincts and
go the hard road, even when youdidn't know the outcome?
Speaker 2 (30:21):
I think a lot of times we want to put up barriers
and walls and I can do itmyself or I don't need this
person in my life, or we tend tobe final about some things,
particularly if we've been hurtor felt betrayed.
But I think that what helped mewas really leaning into love.
(30:46):
You know, one of the thingsthat I had told Brittany and her
husband to be their marriage,to let their love be larger.
Let love be larger than theircircumstance, than any of the
things that threaten theirrelationship, and I've tried to
(31:09):
live that.
It's not always easy, but Ifeel like that power of love can
really help you accept thethings you can't change and
create relationships with peoplethat maybe don't make sense
exactly, but it makes sense foryou because it's a greater good
(31:31):
for you.
That and it's, you know, notthe first person to say the
power of love, but, um, lettingyour love be larger is is really
when I get my best self.
Speaker 1 (31:47):
that's what I lean into that was one of my favorite
.
There were so many different,you know favorite parts of the
book, but that was one of myfavorite parts of the book is
when you you know you didn'tknow what you would say to them
at the wedding, but then youwrote this thing down on let
your love be larger than, largerthan adversity, larger than.
(32:08):
And I was just like, oh my gosh, that is just so beautiful and
it made me wonder if you had somany things happen to you that
tried to take you down.
But I just wondered if maybe itwas that love was larger than
this and love was larger thanthat, you know, and it just
maybe love is what got youthrough.
Speaker 2 (32:31):
I think so.
You know, I got to experiencethat in my home.
(32:51):
We struggled after Forrest'sdeath.
Our family shattered, my fatherhad taken a new pastorate in
another state and so wephysically weren't together.
And then we grieved differently.
I became a noted lecturer ongrief, as well as speaking from
(33:14):
the pulpit writing about it.
My mom was much more privateand was in support groups for
women who had lost children, andI was with my college buddies
who helped me move through griefin their own way structure and
activity.
But my sister wanted to be withhim.
(33:35):
They were 17 months apart andshe said they had to get her
specialized counseling for her.
So I think that we continued tolove each other even though we
were in different places ingrief and different physical
places.
We figured out ways to befamily through small things.
(33:58):
My dad would send me his sermontapes, my mom would be sending
me little notes at school thatwould have sticks of chewing gum
in them and some stampsencouraged me to write her.
And so you just kind of becreative during those periods of
awkwardness to cutting to packwith people, mm-hmm.
Speaker 1 (34:23):
How do you?
You know your father's finaldays, which you know things can
be hard and beautiful at thesame time and you know he shared
something with you that wasdeeply profound.
And could you share what hesaid and how those words
(34:44):
impacted you?
Speaker 2 (34:45):
Yeah.
So they had told us that dadwas probably not going to get
better.
He was in the hospital andkidney cancer had come back and
he was lucid.
(35:06):
But he brought mom and dad.
He brought Rachel and myselfand my mom together and we had a
little prayer together and thenhe said I want you guys to
remember to take care ofyourselves.
It wasn't take care of eachother, which I like.
(35:30):
I look at Rachel and say canyou say it?
Can you say it about ourselves?
I looked at Rachel and said canyou say it to yourself?
And yes, it was like wait aminute.
I felt sure he was going to saytake care of each other, but it
drove home the point that untilwe take care of ourselves, we
really can't take care of otherpeople.
(35:50):
You know, the airlines tell youto put the oxygen mask on.
Yes, I thought of that.
Yes, before you help yourchildren, and of course you want
to help your children first,but it doesn't do them any good
if you passed out for lack ofoxygen.
So I think that reallyemphasized to me self-care and
(36:12):
self-compassion and figuring outyou know what's in my best
interest to do.
For me it sounds selfish, butthe truth is, you can't be
really functional if your healthisn't good.
And I have this thing where wesay you know what's the most
important thing for you rightnow and the most important thing
(36:33):
for you in general?
And for me, it's my health.
You know, I can't do anythingif I can't get my wheelchair and
go anywhere or I can't get outof bed, or you know, my health
is very important to me and sothat helps me prioritize things
about what I need to do today.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, that's really amazing that you know it's
always perspective shifts andit's always learning as we go,
and you've had many differentseasons for you to do that.
Life is full of decisions and Ithink most of us, especially as
parents, second guess ourselvesmore than we'd ever admit.
I'm doing that all the time.
(37:14):
When your son, Matthew, neededmedically fragile foster care,
you had to make an incrediblyhard but necessary choice to
place him where he could receivethe care that he needed and
deserved.
You shared that.
Your parents told you theywould have done the same if
Forrest had survived and neededthat level of care.
I thought that that was soamazing that they said that to
(37:34):
you.
How did having their support,especially in that kind of
moment and through your life,help you trust that you were
making the right decisions as amother?
Speaker 2 (37:45):
It was affirming way, encouraging that it was okay to
operate not only in Matthew'sbest interest but in our
family's interest, becausethat's what mom had said.
I said specifically you knowwhat would you have done with
(38:07):
Forrest?
And she said I would have madethe right decision that was in
Forrest's best interest and thefamily.
And to include the family inthe best interest thinking
process really expanded that,because I couldn't care for
Matthew by myself.
And what would that mean if Itried to do that School?
(38:31):
Does that mean learningtechniques?
And how would that affect theother children that I had too?
Mm-hmm.
So it really encouraged me toconsider the family unit as we
made decisions.
So I found it a great relieffor them to be that honest with
(38:52):
me about what they would havedone.
Speaker 1 (38:54):
Yeah, it doesn't surprise me.
I mean, you guys all workedtogether as a team.
It felt you guys all supportedeach other throughout everything
that you were going through inlife and I just thought that
that was a beautiful thing.
Your parents just seemed likethey were beautiful people.
Speaker 2 (39:14):
They were amazing and in many ways I credit the way
they handled forest.
The loss of forest has given mekind of a front row seat to how
do you get through all thelosses you could ever expect.
So there were things I learnedfrom them.
I didn't even realize I learnedfrom them until I had to cope
with it myself.
Speaker 1 (39:39):
Sure, sure, I mean, that's what happens.
You know, your dad had otherpowerful words.
He said happiness lies in thedifference between being struck
by a challenge and being stuckin a challenge.
And that really hit me becausethat again is another
perspective shift.
I think we all have momentswhere we need to kind of pause
and catch our breath and just bestill for a while, but I don't
(40:00):
call that stuck.
Did you ever feel stuck duringtimes when there was progress?
Or maybe you felt like youweren't really moving because
you couldn't see it or feel it,but you were doing everything
that you could.
Speaker 2 (40:16):
Yeah, you know, I came up with this idea of the
power of better, you know, orjust better moments, and so it's
like what was different abouttoday than yesterday?
One small thing that got better.
It may not have been the best,it may not have been achieved my
goal, but did something getbetter?
(40:38):
Did I, you know, take the dogout on time, or get the dog out,
you know, early enough for him,or did I wake up without the
alarm clock, or did I make atiny bit of progress?
And I let that count, you know,I let that count that I was
able to do something a littletiny bit better than the day
(40:59):
before.
And just seeing that progress,you know, I had a gratitude
journal that I was doing threethings I was grateful for every
day and I said, well, you knowwhat I'm going to track three
things that were better todaythan yesterday.
So that encouraged that forwardmovement to me.
Speaker 1 (41:19):
You know what, making it that small sometimes is what
we have to do.
Sometimes we can only payattention to the step in front
of us or the step that we justtook.
Sometimes it is just reallyhoning in on a smaller amount of
time.
I really like that Madison'sjourney with autism.
(41:40):
Of course, autism is veryspecial to my heart, of course,
but her story really touched meas an autistic adult as well,
and I love how you celebratedher voice after she started ABA
and I loved her place in thefamily.
I loved how Brittany wanted toinclude her in the wedding and
(42:02):
the way that that happened, andthen the photos that were taken
and it made me think of yourkids that helped hold you up,
because they seemed to all holdeach other up and you held them
up.
But what were the parts thathelped?
Speaker 2 (42:22):
hold you up.
You know they kept growing.
It was like I was waiting toknow, especially after paralysis
.
I was waiting to figure outwhen was I going to walk again.
But you know they had theirneeds.
They were three, five, sevenand nine when I was I going to
walk again?
But you know they had theirneeds.
They were three, five, sevenand nine.
When I was paralyzed, madisonneeded.
Uh well, at the time that was1997 and so there wasn't a whole
(42:45):
lot about autism.
And this is, um, when I hadreached out to a fellow parent,
sent home this yellow flyer inMadison's backpack and that
taught us about ABA or invitedus to her home to learn about
ABA therapy.
We used that with Madison andthen later, that transaction of
(43:10):
sharing information that wasn'tavailable through a doctor or
educator, that became the basisof Pathfinders for Autism and
that put me on that track.
You know to work with that, youknow toward that, for two or
three years before it wasincorporated.
So her needs helped me journeythrough my waiting of if I was
(43:33):
going to walk again.
So it was nice to redirect myenergy instead of all about me
to how can I help Madison.
Speaker 1 (43:42):
That was so important .
I love that part of the storyand that the Baltimore Orioles
wives ended up, you know,raising $100,000, which was the
most that they had raised atthat time.
And then even Michael Phelps,here he is, he jumps on board as
an honorary member and then aradio spot for you.
I thought that that was sogreat.
Can you talk more about that?
Speaker 2 (44:04):
Sure.
So we in the early days we werejust a small group of parents
sharing information.
We're trying to share ourdiscoveries.
And then in 2000, we wereincorporated.
We hired our first employee whohad a child with autism,
because at the time everybodywas saying wait and see what
(44:25):
happens and we had wanted peopleto get as many resources as
they could and talk to anotherparent on the phone.
This was way before Google orthe internet or social media,
right, absolutely.
So we started out that way,with just a person answering the
phone, and we developed adatabase.
(44:45):
And then we created specialevents to try to help raise
money.
And now you know we serve20,000 people a year with oh my
gosh.
Yes, some family events wherepeople can go and feel safe
going to the aquarium with theirkids with autism, or gardens,
or different activities we have,and we also train first
(45:08):
responders.
You know, okay, emts, your nextencounter is going to be with a
person with autism.
You know how would you respond?
How can you be sensitized totheir needs?
So it's been great In 25 years.
This year is our 25thanniversary.
Speaker 1 (45:28):
Oh my gosh, Can I ask how Madison is doing?
Speaker 2 (45:32):
She's doing well.
She's still as she's 33, shestill can't read or write or
ever be left alone, but she'sdoing very well in a residential
group home, and then she has aday program as well, where she's
out in the community everysingle day.
Oh that's just great she's outin the community every single
(45:54):
day.
Oh, that's just great, beinggrateful for those support
services that PathFoundersactually helped me find.
So they're still finding pathsfor no matter what age, because
it seems like they always haveneeds that are at least outside
my capacity to handle.
So it's good to have safety netthere to help you.
Speaker 1 (46:13):
It's inside my capacity to handle, so it's good
to have a safety net there tohelp you.
That's interesting that youcalled it Pathfinders, because
you had this thing about pathsyou know two different paths and
then you created that.
You just took coffee containersand you drew these circles
interlocking and then youcreated this logo and then you
(46:33):
came up with this.
I mean, you were just sothinking outside of the box and
trying to do something insteadof just sit in the pain, and I
just thought that that wasamazing that you did that.
And look, I mean, you're stillnow, 25 years later.
Speaker 2 (46:48):
That's so great, yeah , and the path keeps going, and
I think that the idea of a pathis that sometimes it's just
finding the path.
They're already out there, wejust don't know about them.
So it's bringing it to lightout there, but most often their
(47:11):
resources is just getting it ina place that people can discover
it.
Speaker 1 (47:24):
Rewarding experience.
We have an amazing staff nowthat are so helpful and have so
much expertise.
Is it just within the Baltimorearea or is it nationwide, or is
it pretty local?
Speaker 2 (47:31):
It is a statewide organization, but our database
serves people from all over theworld.
Oh my gosh, yes, so you can goto pathfindersforautismorg and
go on there and search.
You can search by age what ageyour child is and what services
are recommended.
We have resources on therewhich are primarily in the
(47:55):
Maryland area, but there's some.
You know we screen theresources we add to our database
and we're open to otherscontributing too.
Speaker 1 (48:05):
That's right.
I might have to look it up whenI get off of here.
So, with your paths andRethinking Possible, when you
talked earlier about twodifferent paths, you also did
that with your own life when youwere in the wheelchair and one
if you would never walk againand one if you could and I
(48:28):
thought that that was brilliant.
Was that your way of also that?
You know creating these twopaths, and I think you already
might have answered thisquestion but was it your way of
forward thinking during a timeof acceptance?
Speaker 2 (48:41):
Yes, absolutely.
That is how I kept myselfmoving, because it was too hard
to just wonder all the time.
And I think that you know, asWinston Churchill says, when
you're going through, keep going.
And to keep going.
I needed to feel like that Icould make progress.
(49:04):
So I did the parallel pathswhat happens if I can walk, what
happens if I couldn't?
And then you know, I had amoment that I decided to give up
on walking.
This was 19 months in and Ithink we had talked about kind
(49:28):
of my big toe moment, where Idecided that was the last thing
I could wiggle before theparalysis was complete, was my
left big toe.
And after 19 months of therapythree times a week, I really
(49:48):
wasn't making any progress and Idecided to just let go of that.
And so I stopped my therapy andI was able to lean in more fully
to a life as a paraplegic, alife as a paraplegic mom.
And I realized, looking back,that therapy three times a week
(50:09):
had taken me away from my kidsat the dinner hour for three
nights a week.
So I said, well, I have thattime now, and so I was like
we're going to do what I couldremember from my mom's days and
we had candles with our dinnerand I played music.
This was back with the CD clubs, so I bought a bunch of CDs
(50:32):
that were funky disco that Iloved in my college days, and
then jazz and then classical andI felt like I was creating
another environment for us to befamily together.
But I think we all in lifesometimes have these big toe
moments where it's like you'vegot to.
It's time to let go ofsomething that's not going to be
(50:56):
a reality for your, for yourlife.
Speaker 1 (51:00):
Yeah, I think it's that leaning into acceptance
instead of resistance.
You know I mean that that's ahard place to be.
It's crossing that line overinto fully acceptance, I think.
Speaker 2 (51:14):
It is hard.
Speaker 1 (51:15):
You know, acceptance also had a different take for me
.
In your book Matthew had and allhe had gone through and your
miscarriages and after yourdaughter, madison's challenges
and Peter's and trying to manageas a single parent in a
wheelchair trying to manage as asingle parent in a wheelchair
(51:37):
you know your entire story ofnow you have your brother had
passed, your dad had passed, yougot the call about your mom and
you say you went right toacceptance.
You had spent a lifetime ofhearing these horrible news,
this horrible news, and thengoing through maybe the grief
process or whatever the stepsthat you need to go to, but then
you went straight to acceptanceand it made me realize that I
(52:03):
too have been through so manythings in my life that I think
sometimes we just go straight toacceptance and it's like that
we become robots to pain andit's just okay, I know the drill
and you just go through themotions Okay, now we got to do
this, we got the funeral,whatever and you just are just
(52:26):
so numb to it and it's moresomething like that.
I don't know, is that how youfelt?
Yeah, is that how you felt?
Yeah?
Speaker 2 (52:34):
I think that sometimes when you have this
unexpected event, that'shorrific, and then you move to
this why, why did this happen?
I don't deserve this.
This isn't fair, All thisemotional fog, but after a while
you realize that that doesn'treally do you any good.
(52:56):
You know an emotional thing,you need to process it, but at
the moment you need to get anaction.
For what is the next step?
What are things that need to do?
And I call it this pivot fromwhy need to do and I call it
this pivot from why and why didall this happen?
(53:18):
And all the angst and outragethat you feel with that why to
how, how are you going to do itand how puts you into acceptance
mode.
And just that change ofquestion from why to how gets
you more in acceptance and, Ithink, helps you move through it
more, maybe efficiently.
That doesn't mean that youcan't come back to why at some
(53:41):
point.
But we knew our mother had hada serious illness.
We didn't know why we didn't.
You know there's a lot moremystery that there was to
investigate.
But Rachel got there and I knewwhat I I needed to do to
address the situation.
Speaker 1 (53:57):
Yeah, and I think going from why to how gives you
that sense of control.
You know it's like all of asudden you can do something with
the why.
Speaker 2 (54:09):
Yeah, you park that why and come back to it, but
your how it puts you in problemsolving.
It does it, does Wandering,pondering.
You're just going to.
All right, let's do it.
You know what do you need to do?
Damn in your resources.
Who can help you?
Speaker 1 (54:27):
Yeah, that's what you do.
That's what we do it is.
You know, one of the thingsthat I absolutely loved about
your family was that you foundways to celebrate and have fun,
and your family's sense of humorcarried all of you, I believe,
(54:51):
when your dad did whatever hedid in the van, you know, and
you're going to, you got thisvan, you're going to go drive it
for the first time and you'rein there your mom's, I guess, in
the passenger seat that's how Ipictured it and your dad does
something and you just tip backand you're staring at the
ceiling and you look over atyour mom, who's backs to you and
her shoulders are shaking and Ithought she was going to be
crying.
And she turns around and she'slike hysterically laughing.
(55:11):
I was like that is awesome.
Speaker 2 (55:17):
She didn't say are you okay, baby?
First, before she startedlaughing.
But she was.
You know, it was the perfectcombination.
Dad could tell a joke I mean,he was a jokester, he just was
and mother couldn't tell a joketo save her life.
She'd tell you the punchlinebefore she would tell you the
story.
But she had this we call ittickle box meltdown, where she
(55:42):
would just cry With tears, shewould just be laughing so she
couldn't talk.
And it really was funny becauseI was on my back and at the
time I was wearing these patentleather Dr Martin shoes.
I was looking up at the ceilingand there were my legs.
Of course I can't move my legs,but they're hanging above me.
Thank heavens I had my seatbelton.
(56:03):
So it was—Dad was trying to usethe hand controls of my car,
which are—you know, you have tobe trained to use these things.
Well, he just doesn't—he skipsahead sometimes when he's
looking at directions.
So he just hit that thing andthe van lurched forward and I
went backward and she was apuddle of tears.
(56:26):
But we really had a lot ofhumor in our household.
We did had a lot of humor inour, in our house.
So we did.
And when you were talking aboutbeing stuck or struck.
I had written a warning fuelentry about that, because I used
it when uh that, that thatphrase when rachel had come to
(56:47):
visit me during uh, I think itwas late March one year.
Anyway, we had a surprisesnowstorm and she couldn't leave
, she couldn't fly back home,and we were stuck, you know.
And instead of being stuck, wedecided to go out and play in
the snow.
So I did, you know, donuts withmy wheelchair and snow angels.
(57:11):
That is so fun, you know.
We were struck by the challengeinstead of being stuck in it.
So this gave us a lighter wayto look at life, because
sometimes it's just so crazy,it's funny.
You know, how can all thisstuff happen?
What's, you know?
Why not laugh about it?
(57:32):
We were overcome, you know, bygrief and by anger.
We can be overcome by laughtertoo.
That counts.
Speaker 1 (57:39):
Right, right.
And I read that passage inMorning Fuel and it was really
funny.
I pictured you doing that.
Yeah, it was great.
And you're right, you just haveto make the best of it.
You just have to.
I mean, life is happening.
You might as well laugh alongthe way and you had a dance
party after your divorce.
I mean that was awesome.
(58:01):
And also the picture in my mindof you trying to get ready in
the bathroom with your friendand your sister for that wedding
, and you know what it washilarious yeah, they, uh.
Speaker 2 (58:16):
We never did that again, but it was just the floor
and had a friend pulling me upand rachel shoving me to the
side.
But uh, yeah, uh, it was a aninteresting time in the bathroom
.
Well, it made a memory right.
Speaker 1 (58:31):
Yes, this is the end of part one.
What an incredible, raw journeywe've just walked through with
the phenomenal Rebecca GalliFrom the depths of unimaginable
grief, loss and paralysis to alife fueled by intention,
gratitude and unshakableresilience.
Rebecca doesn't just talk abouthope, she lives it.
Her words remind us that evenwhen life knocks us flat
(58:53):
physically, emotionally orspiritually, we can get back up.
Even if it looks different thanbefore.
We can find purpose in theaftermath.
We can let our love be largerthan our pain.
So if you're in a season thatfeels impossible, where the
weight feels too heavy and theroad too long, let Rebecca's
story remind you you are notalone and you are not without
(59:15):
power.
You may have to rethink what'spossible, but that doesn't mean
it isn't possible.
If this episode touched you, goto grab Rebecca's books,
rethinking Possible and MourningFuel.
Maybe take a moment to write tosomeone who's shown up for you
in your darkest moments because,as we learned today real love,
honest words and purposefulaction they ripple further than
(59:38):
we could ever imagine.
Part two will be next week.
Until next time, this is RealTalk, where we meet the hardest
parts of life with open hearts,honest words and a whole lot of
resilience.
Take care of yourself, let yourlove be larger, and we'll see
you next time.
Popular Podcasts
Bookmarked by Reese's Book Club
Welcome to Bookmarked by Reese’s Book Club — the podcast where great stories, bold women, and irresistible conversations collide! Hosted by award-winning journalist Danielle Robay, each week new episodes balance thoughtful literary insight with the fervor of buzzy book trends, pop culture and more. Bookmarked brings together celebrities, tastemakers, influencers and authors from Reese's Book Club and beyond to share stories that transcend the page. Pull up a chair. You’re not just listening — you’re part of the conversation.
On Purpose with Jay Shetty
I’m Jay Shetty host of On Purpose the worlds #1 Mental Health podcast and I’m so grateful you found us. I started this podcast 5 years ago to invite you into conversations and workshops that are designed to help make you happier, healthier and more healed. I believe that when you (yes you) feel seen, heard and understood you’re able to deal with relationship struggles, work challenges and life’s ups and downs with more ease and grace. I interview experts, celebrities, thought leaders and athletes so that we can grow our mindset, build better habits and uncover a side of them we’ve never seen before. New episodes every Monday and Friday. Your support means the world to me and I don’t take it for granted — click the follow button and leave a review to help us spread the love with On Purpose. I can’t wait for you to listen to your first or 500th episode!
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com