January 22, 2025 • 34 mins
Kari Baker joins us for a heartfelt conversation that reveals the hidden layers of parenting children with invisible neurological differences. From wrestling with the emotional intricacies of isolation and uncertainties to navigating the special education system, we promise you'll walk away with practical tools and a refreshed perspective. Kari's insights are not just theoretical; they're born from experience, making her guidance on IEP meetings and parental rights invaluable. Together, we explore how nurturing passions can illuminate new paths for children, forging fulfilling life journeys.
Parenting is a journey with both challenges and joys, especially when guiding children through social hurdles. With stories that resonate deeply, we explore teaching self-advocacy to empower children in difficult moments. From handling tantrums with a strategic "poker face" to navigating the minefield of peer interactions and bullying, we find that communication is the key. Kari's poignant narratives remind us of the courage and perseverance required, ensuring that our children not only survive but thrive in their unique environments.
Embracing the journey of parenting a child with autism, we reflect on the evolution of community support and the significance of finding purpose amid challenges. We discuss the pride in children's growth, the beauty of autism, and the power of unique pathways. Kari shares touching stories that highlight the positive impacts children with special needs can have on the world and emphasizes the importance of focusing on their strengths. This episode is a testament to the resilience and love that defines families navigating similar paths, offering encouragement and a sense of shared journey to all who listen.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne.
This is part two of CarrieBaker's interview.
She is an author, speaker,advocate for people with
invisible neurologicaldisabilities.
She has founded Kind Families,a community of people who love
individuals with neurologicaldifferences.
She has written the bookFinding Kind Discovering Hope
(00:29):
and Purpose While Loving Kidswith Invisible Neurological
Differences.
In part two we talk about thekind community, the shame and
isolation that can come from notfitting in as a child or adult
with invisible differences or assomeone parenting someone with
those types of differences.
We mentioned the beautifulverse John 9, 13.
(00:51):
Carrie mentions how we wereborn on purpose, for a purpose.
We talk about the specialeducation system and how parents
can be prepared, going into IEPand other educational meetings
surrounded by educators.
We explain your rights and helpyou to understand that you are
the one in control of your child.
(01:11):
We talk about the whys, theanger with God and the fears
that can come with a diagnosis.
This is a must here for anyonewho knows someone who has an
invisible difference, or if youhave one yourself difference, or
if you have one yourself, likeAnne does.
She talks about this as well.
Thank you so much for listening.
And here is part two.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
We have been trying.
For instance, right now, my sonis in a hybrid homeschool
situation, so he's off schoolMondays and Fridays, and we had
to do that, you know,unfortunately, because of a
bullying issue that happened athis prior school and so we're.
You know we were kind ofthinking, okay, he's in eighth
grade, let's take a take a yearto do this kind of low stress
option, but he's bored, so we're, we're like how do we, how do
(02:00):
we take up his time on Mondaysand Fridays?
And we found a school that hasthese individual classes that
are one-on-one teacher taught,not online, where you can go in,
and they have things liketheater, art and cinema, and so
my Brady now is a huge moviebuff.
Like you go to a movie withthis kid and you will hear
(02:20):
details that he saw in thatmovie that you would never
imagine in your life.
And then journalism.
He picked out journalism becausewe've been watching the TV show
Smallville with Clark Kent andof course the reporters are in
there, and so we're trying allof these different avenues where
(02:42):
you know we know movies is hisnumber one thing, but there's
all these little offshoots thathe could really take a grasp on,
that utilize his gifts ofwriting and creativity and
performance art and those kindsof things.
So I think that's amazing.
And the drummer is the mostimportant, by the way.
So I'm on the worship team atmy church as a backup vocalist
(03:02):
and the drummer is the mostimportant.
So I'm on the worship team atmy church as a backup vocalist
and the drummer is the mostimportant.
So you can tell your son that.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Well, he absolutely will eat that up.
Yes, because he's all aboutbeing the number one and wanting
to feel important.
So I'm just really proud of himand you know, I just want to
quickly say that you know we hadmentioned about me having
neurological differences and Iwas told that I would not
(03:29):
graduate high school and I got amaster's degree because I
taught myself how to learn byreading into a tape recorder and
listening to it, writing itdown and then memorizing it, and
it would take me hours to dowhat maybe somebody could do in
an hour for me to get barely a C.
But you know, I figured it outand that's, you know, people
(03:52):
with autism.
I think that we are also givingthis big tool belt of all kinds
of other things the resiliencyand the determination and that's
what I see in your son in thisbook.
It's just a beautiful story.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, yeah, he's very brave, I think, you know he's
extremely courageous and hetries new things and has found
some that he doesn't like asmuch and some that he does.
But, um, you know, I think assomebody that was kind of raised
(04:29):
like you go get a businessdegree and because that's like
the smart thing to do, cause youcan do a lot of things with it
and that sort of thing, and Idon't regret that at all, I
don't regret my first 30 yearsin the career.
But I do talk about the factthat you know, the places where
I shined in my former careerwere when I was giving, you know
, educational sessions to theemployees, or it wasn't in,
(04:53):
believe me, I was not the personlike making somebody a million
dollars in the stock market oranything like that, so it was,
it was in the one-on-one that Iwould have with employees, or
giving presentations or writingmaterials to help them
understand things better.
And so, you know, it is kind ofinteresting to think now that
I've just done this complete 180and loving it so much and
(05:16):
feeling like I'm right where Ineed to be, and I just want
Brady to start that way.
You know, I don't want him togo 30 years of, you know,
processing widgets or whatever,doing spreadsheets, when that's
not his math and science or nothis thing.
And so we've just got to findthose creative outlets and a way
(05:36):
for him to really build a lifearound doing those, because if
he's doing that, he's going tofeel good about himself, he's
going to be successful, and it'snot about money or anything
else, but he's going to feelfulfilled.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
That's where we want him to be so yeah, you know, I
read that story about himswimming in that was it a lake
or whatever it was?
And and then the dead, the fishbones, and he's swimming and
I'm just like I was feeling it.
I mean I just was, my skin wascrawling even thinking about him
(06:14):
doing that On the spectrum.
Are you kidding?
I mean that was you want totalk about determination?
I mean, in every story with himit seemed like at first it was
a little difficult and it waskind of like, you know, you
weren't really sure if he wasgoing to get to the other side
of it, but he found it withinhimself to get to the other side
(06:36):
of it, even the first time hegot in the pool, you know, when
he just kept going.
So I don't know, you know, andI saw him continually make goals
for himself in the book and himreaching for them, and that was
just so amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Right, right, it's interesting.
So right now, he's never been asports kid really.
He's always loved to swim andhe did cross country and track
at his old school because it wasa small school and any kid
could participate and those areindividual sports.
But he's never been into likebasketball or football or
(07:12):
anything like that.
And he's told us now, I thinkthat he's in eighth grade that
kids go out on the basketballcourt and they and he's horrible
.
He will be the first.
I'm not, you know, divulginganything that he wouldn't allow
me to divulge.
He's horrible at basketball andfootball, but he wants to learn
it, and he goes Mom, I don'twant to be awesome at it, I just
(07:33):
want to be middle of the pack,I don't want to be awful anymore
.
And so there's actually a grouphere that focuses.
That focuses on special needsfitness, and, starting in a
couple weeks, we've got atrainer that's going to come
twice a week and just give himlike just give him, like you
know, these uh lessons on.
(07:55):
You know, throw a ball and getit to where you want it to go,
and dribble a ball withoutlosing control of it and um, and
have that work all in with hisphysical therapy as well and
building core and things likethat.
But you know, if he's going toexpress interest in it, we're
going to try to figure out a wayto help him See.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I just love that, and we do that with ours too.
One of the things that you sayis I get so caught in.
Well, actually you wrote this ina kerrybakercom blog, your blog
yes, so I was reading those aswell and you said that you get
so caught up in the have-tosthat I overlook the get-tos of
(08:38):
parenting your child and thatGod carefully and thoughtfully
created to be yours.
And I somewhat will relate withthat, in that we have so many
appointments, there are so manythings that we have to do and
when I was reading through yourbook, you know all the meetings,
the school meetings, thedoctor's appointments, the pills
(08:59):
that we on our end have to takeeverywhere we go to make sure
we have everything, all thefidgets, the bag full of all the
kids' things, and we have tomake sure so much so that they
are okay that we oftentimesdon't get to enjoy it.
And I kind of laughed because Ihad this visual of you with the
(09:21):
DVD player in the car as youwere taking the kids to the
cavern field trip.
I think it was.
But I do that now.
I mean I've got my hand on thewheel, the DVD player back there
is not working or somethinghappens and I'm like this trying
to figure it out for them.
(09:42):
So, yeah, I totally get it, Irelate, yeah yes, it's juggling.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I mean, I just watching you do that motion of
like reaching back, like I wasdoing with the, it's like, okay,
I can do this, I can drive andkeep us all safe and I can
change a dvd right behind myhead and, and we've got to give
ourselves permission to pullover, it's like, oh, my goodness
, I think it is.
It's just kind of ingrained inus as parents that we try to get
(10:13):
as much done as possible, butyou know, we've we've got to
stop missing the cool thingsthat that come along with
parenting a kid like this.
And um, and and that's true forall parents too I think we all
get caught up in the hustle andbustle whether it's kids are in
sports or in therapies, you knowand kind of miss out on the
(10:37):
relationship building piece ofit, and I'm guilty of that too.
So it's um, it's always good tolike take a step back and just
enjoy.
I went to a concert with Bradyyesterday and I just kind of
looked over at him and he justhad this smile on his face the
whole time listening to it andso I found myself kind of just
(10:58):
looking at him almost more thanthe stage, and there was a lot
going on on the stage.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Oh, I do that too.
Yeah, my kids, I do that too,yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I call it mythird childhood because I had,
you know, mine, of course, andthen my older two, who I adopted
years ago, and now I have thesethree littles.
So I call it my third childhoodbecause I just love living
(11:22):
through them.
It's just so fun, because Ijust love living through them.
It's just so fun.
There was something else.
You know, gosh, there was somuch in your book that I
resonated with.
But the other day I asked mydaughter to clean her room,
which turned into a full out,yelling, screaming, you know,
and it got to this where I'mtelling her well, you can't do
(11:47):
this if you don't get this done,which everything I was doing or
saying was escalating thesituation.
And you talk about poker faceand say attention was a reward
for good behavior, not aresponse to bad behavior.
And I have this picture of youin my head with your son in one
part of your house and you inthe other, and you wanting so
(12:10):
badly to get to him and you knewthat you couldn't get go to him
because he needed to figure itout and calm down.
You know, I do ignore herbehaviors at times, and anything
that I say or do just escalatesthat behavior.
So it works.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we just had that happen,
actually two nights ago, withsomething where he kind of lost
it and went in his room and shutthe door and he was sitting up
against his door and of courseI'm pushing on the door going
come on, brady, it's time fordinner, you know.
And he's like I just need to bealone, mom, I just need to be
alone.
And I kind of went.
(12:50):
Okay, I know, I know that mypushing on the door that's not
going to get us anywhere andthat's one of the hardest things
to do.
And I remember a therapisttelling us that and I remember a
(13:31):
therapist telling us that youknow, you've got to be willing
to not go to that event or to,you know, miss out.
Then I guess we can't go to themovie, but that's okay, we'll
go again another day and do itwith the poker face without any
emotion or screaming or, youknow, gritting our teeth, which
is super hard.
But you know that really putthe ball back in his court to
make the decision.
He wasn't responding to me andit was a new concept for me that
my negative attention was evensomething that he was trying to
(13:52):
draw out in me, like he wastaking something from my
negative attention and thatwasn't helping us in the end
goal for anything.
So once I removed that, it'skind of like a tug of war Once I
(14:13):
drop my end of the rope hedoesn't have anything to tug on
anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Well, I love that he can let you know what he wants,
like when he told you that hewanted his chicken nuggets room
temperature or something likethat.
You know.
I think that that's so amazingbecause I constantly.
I think that that's one of thebiggest things is communication
and teaching our kids how toself advocate.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Right.
Well, and you know we've we'vebeen focusing on that a lot and
now he has.
He has language that had todevelop and what the story of
him you know telling me that hischicken nuggets were burning
hot to him, even though theyseemed like they were room
temperature to me.
That was after, you know, yearsof of speech therapy and all
(14:59):
the things that he needed to beable to communicate that across.
Of course, now he's a teenagerand he throws that back at me.
You know he didn't want toparticipate in a school show and
he's like mom, I'mself-advocating by saying I
don't want to do it.
Oh my gosh, oh, wow.
(15:20):
But you know we're fortunatethat he has the language and
that he has, you know, thecomfort level, especially with
us and people that he's close to, to do that.
You know, unfortunately, thesame way, that the social stuff
is hard with the peers, just ona regular even keel level.
(15:41):
I think that you know thatshows itself in the bullying
situation with our kids as well,though.
So he's gotten really good atself-advocating with us, but if
he's in a situation with a peerwho is not being kind and he
doesn't really realize that,then that is still a real
(16:03):
struggle for him.
At his old school there was aboy who decided it was funny to
start saying that things thatwere weird were autistic Like,
oh, that's so autistic and I'mmaking up a song on the
playground about autism.
And and I wound up.
(16:24):
You know I spoke to theadministration.
They swore up and down theywould get it fixed and it still
continued to happen.
So I pulled him out, which wasvery traumatic for him, and we
were talking about it one dayand he goes Mom, I don't think
he was talking, I don't think hewas making fun of me.
I said Brady, you're the onlykid in the class that the whole
(16:44):
class knows has autism and hewasn't catching that.
You know this was a directattack on you and he actually
had a friend step up for him anddefend him.
But you know, so thatself-advocacy I think he's in
(17:04):
kind of the early stages of thatwhere he's able to start
sticking up for himself with usas parents and investing those
boundaries with us as parentsand advocating with teachers for
things that he needs.
But that peer-to-peerself-advocacy is something that
is a lot harder to come bySelf-advocacy is something that
(17:26):
is a lot harder to come by.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
I have my one daughter.
She self-advocates abouteverybody and everything and she
tells everybody what theyshould be doing or you know, or
what she wants, all day long.
But then I have one that,unfortunately, because his
disabilities are so great thathe gets teased and he actually
says to me but they're my friendand so because they're just
talking to him, so it's tryingto get him to understand no,
sweetie, they're not treatingyou very well right now, but
(18:00):
that's difficult too, because hewants somebody to really like
him.
And he does go to a differentschool now too, and he has some
friends, so he's very excitedabout that.
And, yeah, I mean, it's just soimportant.
I feel I mean gosh, bullies, itbreaks my heart.
(18:22):
I can remember one time wheremy one son he was playing
basketball and he was so littleand he was trying so hard and
these bigger kids came out andthey were just making, so they
were just teasing him so badlyand of course I went in and
advocated and I'm just like stopit.
But he was younger but notsaying something and trying to
(18:46):
step back and trying to givethem the tools to be able to do
that by themselves.
Oh, that's hard.
That's hard as a horse.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
It is.
It was hard for me not toapproach the kid at his old
school and have some words withhim.
But you know those experiences,though as hard as they are, and
what we've told Brady is thatyou know, now you understand,
you know if somebody is makingfun of autism, of something
(19:15):
that's a core of who you areit's not all of who you are, but
it is a part of you thenthey're not your friend.
You then they're not yourfriend.
And they are not just sayingsomething in general that just
happens to relate to somethingabout you.
They are attacking you.
And you know it goes back towhen he was in, I think, his
(19:35):
second grade.
There was a boy who wasphysically bullying him and we
practiced at home.
We'll call the kid Jimmy, butwe would practice at home and I
would touch Brady's arm or grabhis arm, and he would have to
yell stop it Jimmy.
And I was like that's not loudenough, brady, if I grab your
(19:57):
arm, you know.
And so we would practice thatStop it Jimmy, Stop it Jimmy.
Until he was able to yell.
Stop it Jimmy, stop it Jimmy.
Until he was able to yell, stopit Jimmy.
And you know, the cool thing is.
Brady and Jimmy wound up beingfriends a couple years later and
Jimmy that school handled it sogreat.
They got the boys together andthey made friends.
And that kid actually talkedabout feeling bad about the fact
(20:22):
that he was picking up.
Brady later in life.
But the physical stuff isalmost easier to address than
some of these undermining kindof behind the scenes mental
things that people do,especially once they hit middle
(20:42):
school, which is just a toughtime for everybody.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
But we're working on that you know, two of the things
that you really talk about isyour son's inability to connect
with other kids and how bad thathe or I don't like the word bad
how differently he has acted inpublic.
Sometimes that makes you justwant to explain to everyone in
(21:08):
the room, and I've gone intosituations like that too with my
kids, where I just want them tohave a shirt that says I have
autism.
Please be kind, you know,because lots of times I can
sense everybody's staring and Ijust want everybody to
understand.
You know, hey, and I have gonein and apologized before and
(21:30):
said I am sorry, you know he hasautism and we're still learning
.
So but the connection,especially with one of my kids
he is always on the outsidewhile the other kids are playing
and it's trying to teach himhow to join and that fight or
(21:50):
flight, I mean it's a real thing.
And because he gets sooverstimulated just because of
that alone, he goes into eithera run or he goes into flailing,
you know.
And so now it was so difficultfor to keep him in the classroom
and he's gifted, so that wasdifficult, so we decided to
(22:14):
homeschool him.
He's home now.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
And those you know.
We've figured out that theschooling decision is something
you almost have to make everyyear because the needs are
changing and his challenges arechanging.
You know, from an academicstandpoint, he can do all the
work.
He's a smart kid and he can doall the work, but can he listen
to a teacher who's just talkingat him for an hour and take a
(22:39):
note?
Take notes that are going tohelp him remember stuff for a
test?
Maybe not, you know.
And so you know, thehomeschooling thing that we're
doing now that's a hybrid isgreat in some ways, in that he's
able to self-study and he'sable to get through it just fine
.
But thank goodness, because, asan eighth grade, the eighth
(23:03):
grade material is starting toget to the point where mom's not
as much help as she used to bein elementary school.
But he wants to be challenged,he wants to have, you know, that
teacher relationship and hewants to have, he wants more.
And so you know, I think theschooling thing is going to be
just a, and every year we needto look at it.
(23:25):
We're doing that right now forninth grade, because he's high
school last year, and what'sgoing to be the best environment
for him socially andacademically?
So, and you know, I guess we'vewe've proven with our track
record of the different schoolsthat he's been in, that we're
willing to make a change if it'snot the right fit.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Oh yeah, so it's all about change.
Speaking of autism and peoplenot liking change yes, yeah,
yeah, that kind of goes.
I mean, I just expect changeevery single day, so I have
learned to just go with change.
Now, one of the things is thatyou talked about with your
(24:06):
husband which was really amazingwhen you found out that, or you
were thinking that he mighthave autism.
Your husband said OK, so whatdo we do now?
I mean, what a great responseto that.
So what would you say toparents who are hearing the word
(24:27):
autism or whatever it is,whatever invisible disability it
is?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
what would you say to them when they're hearing it
for the first time?
Well, first of all, denial isnot going to help at all and
I've seen friends that havedenied it or said, oh, they'll
just grow out of it type ofthing and put off getting their
children the types ofinterventions that would really
help them later in life, andthat breaks my heart.
So please, if you've even gotan inkling that there might be
(25:00):
some kind of an invisibledifference, you know, get it
confirmed and get some help foryour child, the sooner the
better.
Secondly, I do know that ourfamily is a little bit unique
and that my husband did justaccept it and we were in
lockstep on the fact that wewere going to work as hard as we
could to get Brady all theservices that he needed.
And I have other friends whosehusbands have not been as
(25:24):
understanding, and in that caseI think you have to just keep
moving forward.
You can't put off the kinds ofhelp that your child could
really benefit from andhopefully get some counseling or
some other folks to talk toyour spouse about what needs to
be done to make sure that yourchild has the best possible life
(25:47):
.
But you know, those are kind ofmore, you know, getting into
action mode.
But the other thing I would sayis, you know, find community.
You are not alone.
There are other families thatare going through something very
similar and maybe just may be alittle bit further down the
path than you are.
(26:07):
And when I found those moms,that was life-changing for me to
be able to sit down and havecoffee with a few people whose
kids, like you said, they're notthe same Every kid is different
but there are some similaritiesin a lot of the behaviors and
the passions and the interestsand those kinds of things.
(26:32):
And there are stories that willhelp you feel like your child is
not some anomaly that camealong.
Your child is just born with abrain wiring that's different.
And then, lastly, don't ever,don't, ever like somebody told
your family and like don't everdiscount what your child can do
(26:57):
based on a diagnosis or even asuspected diagnosis we had.
We walked into our first parenttraining when Brady was three
and our heads were stillspinning from all the autism
research we'd been doing, andshe told us to cash out his
college fund and, to you know,start thinking about building a
casita on the back of our housefor him to live with us forever,
(27:20):
and just she'd set thisexpectation up, that he was
never going to be able to doanything except go to therapies
and, you know, live in ourgarage, oh boy.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
And that I mean it is .
It's almost criminal to havethose kinds of comments.
Yeah, I've said that.
You know it makes me so upsetto see teacher, educators or
medical people think that theyare God and know for sure that
this is the path for your child,right?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And so I, you know, your, your child is the same
child as somebody very wise toldme this a while back.
He is exactly the same kid theday before the diagnosis as the
day after the diagnosis.
So, nothing has changed.
What has changed is that nowyou have a roadmap.
That diagnosis is just aroadmap to help you understand
(28:21):
how best to help your child copewith a world that was not
designed for him or her and tobe able to thrive in it.
And so you know.
There's so many of thoselessons that it took me a long
time to learn, but it's so muchbetter now, I think, than 10
years ago when Brady wasdiagnosed.
I really wasn't on.
(28:43):
Facebook, and you know I hadn'tever listened to a podcast.
There wasn't this kind of justglobal encouragement, and there
wasn't there, quite frankly,there wasn't the demographics of
the kids out there that havethis.
So you know, when I felt like Iwas the only person I knew with
a kid with autism which was thecase initially, I mean, now you
(29:07):
can't.
If you go into a classroom,it's likely that one of the kids
in there is going to haveautism or one of these other
invisible neurologicaldifferences that fall under this
kind of kind umbrella, whetherit's dyslexia or ADHD or OCD or
sensory processing like almostone in five kids has something
(29:29):
that kind of falls under thiskind umbrella.
So it's not that you're notalone.
You're actually part of a hugecommunity of families that are
out there who are looking forthe same kind of hope and
encouragement that you are.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, I love that you have formed this community and
that you wanted to go outsideand help all these other people
Some of the challenges that youknow.
You have a whole chapter onshame and I think that having
the community really helpsfamilies realize that they're
(30:04):
not the only one Right, and thatbecause a couple of the things
that you touched on have reallyhas really hit me in that you
know, one of the hardest thingsfor me is to secretly see
neurotypical kids playing andfamilies being able to go out
(30:27):
and they do not have thedifficulties that we do, and
also that it's also hard towatch other kids soar to great.
But then I always remind myselfbut he's got it, he's going to
(30:51):
be okay, he's got the skillshe's growing every single day.
But those things enter in andthere are moments of sadness
when you see that or that kidsare growing towards independence
and reality.
I know that especially one ofmine might not ever be
(31:14):
completely independent and youknow those add moments of you
don't want to talk about it, youdon't want to put it out there
and you know I appreciated thatchapter on shame.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, and it wasn't shame in our kids.
It wasn't my shame of Brady atall.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I have always kind of been a people pleaser.
I've been a, you know, I've gotto go out and achieve, I've got
to walk into a room and figureout what the need is and go meet
it.
And having a kid, that was verydifferent, it was very
isolating.
Right right, you know, I was,like you were saying, watching
the other families with the kids.
(31:57):
You know I would inkindergarten, preschool,
kindergarten and first grade.
I always felt like the othermoms were looking at me because
Brady had an aide in the classand saying, well, what did you
know?
What's wrong with him?
What is you know?
What did she do wrong?
What is you know?
(32:20):
And I, I isolated myself fromrelationships in those groups
because I didn't feel like I fitin.
I was not.
I did not have the, you know,quote unquote typical kid that
was doing the sports.
We weren't going to basketballpractices, we were going to
speech therapy, you know, and itwas.
It was this unexpected.
What I consider to be a failurein my life plan, you know, and
(32:43):
I had to.
I had a lot, of, a lot of stuffI had to deal with and some of
it was I mean, I'm not going tolie, there were some people out
there who were not kind.
There were some parents inBrady's classroom who were not
kind.
And so there were things feedingthat fear and that shame too.
Um too.
(33:04):
But I remember taking Brady tothat special school first.
When we took him out of thatpreschool and kindergarten that
he was in, and all the parentsat the pickup line were saying,
oh, what therapy are you goingto this afternoon?
Or what medication is your kidon?
And I was like what, what wecan talk about this.
And it was just this huge weightthat was lifted off my
(33:30):
shoulders and so it's now.
I mean, I'm so proud of whatBrady can do, and you know Brady
can do, and you know, is therea little part of me that you
know I see kids that are, youknow, in the playoffs for their
(33:52):
basketball team or, you know,traveling.
I'm glad he doesn't play soccer.
I've never liked soccer, sothat was that one I'm very
grateful for.
He never got into soccer.
But you know going totournaments and things like that
.
So do I have these littleinklings every now and then?
Yeah, I still do.
But I would much rather have akid who's published, got his
foreword in front of a book, andyou know, we were at church
(34:17):
yesterday and there was a momthat came up to me that I didn't
know and she introduced herselfbecause Brady's been helping
out in the little kids area andher son, who is on the spectrum,
and he just gravitated to Bradyand he just walked up and held
his hand and said mommy, can wego outside and play?
And Brady took him out into theplayground and they played
together.
(34:37):
And that's the kid I want, andthat's the kid I'm proud of, and
those other things.
That's their path, those otherthings that those kids are doing
that's their family's path.
It's not ours.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
and they can rewrite their story along the way many
different times, but I really dofeel that everybody has a
purpose and there is a reasonthat my kids your son has autism
and I have autism and it's used.
(35:13):
One of the things that I lovedin your book was John 9, 13,.
Rabbi who sinned this man orhis parents, that he was born
blind?
And Jesus says neither this mannor his parents sinned, but
this happened so that the worksof God might be displayed in him
(35:36):
.
I think so many of us feel thatwe did something wrong, but you
say in your book God made himthat way on purpose, for a
purpose.
That is so beautiful and Goddoesn't make mistakes, period.
I love your poem to Brady, bythe way, and you said you are
(35:57):
God's work of art and I thoughtthat that was so powerful.
Yes, and I thought that thatwas so powerful.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, yes, and he is he's.
You know the.
The tagline that Brady's usedin the foreword that he we use
kind of when he's he's relatingis you're fearfully and
wonderfully made.
We are all fearfully andwonderfully made, and and even
if I mean I am not saying thatall kind kids need to go off and
(36:25):
ride a forward or swim twomiles in a lake or anything like
that- but they're going to runinto people whose lives.
they realizes what their purposeis here on this earth, and if
there's one, kind of commonthread that I've noticed with
most kind kids is that they arekind and they make positive
(36:56):
impacts on people.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Oh yes, yeah, we were at a fair and my son, who has
the most challenges, was on aride and there was a man who was
having a very difficult timegetting out of his ride and my
son went right over to him,grabbed his hands and helped him
, walked all the way with himtill he was off of the ride.
(37:20):
Oh my gosh, you know I mean,those things are more important
to me than him getting an A inmath.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, Well, and you know, I read somewhere, you know
our kids with autism and youmight experience this.
They might have communicationproblems with another kid, but
that doesn't mean that they arenot super perceptive about other
things that we can't see.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
I always say we can see a tear before it falls.
Yeah, I know that kind of thing.
Yeah, because so many timesthey really just say that we're
not empathetic.
But I don't believe that.
You know, we do get stuck inour ways and we, you know, might
, but for the most part we dogenuinely care deeply about
(38:08):
other people and wantrelationship.
Yes, one of the other thingsthat you touched on when you
were talking about schoolsearlier I wanted to mention this
was that you know, specialeducation has its own language
and when you have severaleducational professionals in
front of you talking test scoresand goals, it can be so
(38:31):
confusing if you don'tunderstand the language and you
don't realize that you need tolearn what all that means and
you need to go in knowing whatyour child needs, and with a
fight, because if you want yourchild to become their best self,
you have to understand what allthe lingo is and also realize
that you have a say at the table.
(38:56):
You don't agree and you can goin with advocates to help you
get what your child deserves.
And I also like how you likenit to owning a business that you
know nothing about and theseteachers and doctors are your
employees, and that is true, butit also it's so empowering
(39:16):
because you are in control ofyour child, not them.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Right and you know your child best.
You know exactly how they reactto criticism.
One of the cool things that Ithink is coming out of that
school conversation now is, whenyou're in an IEP meeting, don't
just talk about all the thingsthat your kid is challenged by,
Also talk about all theirstrengths so that they can start
(39:40):
to play to those strengths.
So Brady has, you know,rejection.
Sensitive dysphoria is one ofthe diagnoses that we got, where
if somebody comes in reallyhard and critical of him, he
will melt, and so there has tobe a better approach of somebody
in that authority figure.
(40:01):
If Brady's doing something thatneeds to be corrected, it
cannot be Brady.
You're not doing that right.
That will not create the resultthat they're looking for.
There has to be Brady.
You did this really well, thispart.
Let's see if we could do that alittle bit better.
And so there's all kinds ofadvancements that I think that
(40:24):
are out there that parents canlean on to school district,
created an entire school withinthe public school system.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
It's a separate school for kids that fall in the
gap class, and every classroomonly has like six kids and they
(41:05):
meet every child where they are.
I mean, can you imagine goingin meeting every child right
where they are?
You know so, but it can be sohard to find the exact place for
our kiddos to go to school andbe their best self.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
That is.
That's one of the other reallyexciting things, and I'm in the
Phoenix greater Phoenix area,I'm in Scottsdale and there is
actually one of Brady'stherapists that he went to.
They created a school just likewhat you're talking about for
kids kindergarten through thirdgrade and they're now expanding
that to some later grades wherethey have those smaller
(41:44):
classrooms.
They're getting them includedin other activities with typical
kids in the mainstreamclassroom, but there's
behavioral techs that know howto guide the kids in the moment
to really get the most out oftheir day at school, and I think
there's a lot of really neat,exciting things that people are
(42:05):
starting to pick up on and alsobecause of people like you who
have had this successful careerpath and they know that our kids
have things to contribute.
Our kids are going to be able tocontribute awesome things to
the world and the community andorganizations and we've got to
figure out a better way to helpthem be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
You know, I love how you say in the book that our
feelings don't drive results.
Our actions do.
And as a parent of specialneeds kids, you know all we and
you say, all we need is awillingness to take the next
step forward.
We need to get up the nextmorning, read the next article,
(42:51):
go to the next appointment andtalk to the next person.
And if we keep finding the nextthing to do, even if it's a
mistake you know it's anexperience.
Even if it's a mistake, youknow it's an experience.
And having kids that havespecial needs and you know it's
an active type of parenting wehave to be on the front line.
(43:15):
If I allowed my feelings todictate what we do, there would
be days that I would just sit inbed and not do anything, you
know.
So it's that getting up anddoing it again the next day.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, yeah, and that's kind of the definition of
courage, right.
So that's, you know, getting upand doing the hard thing, and I
think that every kind parent,that's what you are going to be
empowered with because of thelove you have for your child and
your desire for them to havethe best possible outcome,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, you also mentioned about anger and being
angry with God, and I have hadmy moments with tears asking why
.
And you know, having a lifewhere there's, at times,
continual frustration orhardship, with little breaks,
(44:12):
can definitely cause moments ofquestioning and being angry.
And the other part of it isfear.
Fear is huge.
I mean being afraid of theunknown, afraid of what even our
day could be like, and you knowthere was a line in your book
which is actually the mantra onour podcast, so I found that
(44:35):
interesting.
You say that pain has a purposeand we always say that there is
purpose in the pain and hope inthe journey.
So I believe in using our painfor good.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
And if you can let yourself seethe purpose in the pain, it's
going to change your life too,and the purpose is kind of the
foundation that we all need tohave in going forward.
We've got to have our lensesdialed into.
(45:10):
This is my purpose, this is mykid's purpose, and try to just
take a step every day towardsthat.
And try to just take a stepevery day towards that.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Well, if we do what you say in the book and to, you
know, not have the invisiblecloak but put on the armor of
God, so where no one candiminish our worth, which I
found so profound, I actuallyI'm such a visual person and so
(45:44):
I really appreciate all yourvisuals, like that.
It was like, oh yeah, you know,you know, but I'm the armor of
God, I'm picturing like I haveThor's hammer and I've got, you
know, like all the Avenger stuffon, and so I love it.
Yeah, that's my autism comingout, because I'm a big Marvel
(46:05):
person, dc person.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Oh yeah Great, my son is too.
You guys could probably go onand on about that.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
So as I mentioned, I have a room just for that, and
everything has to be exactlywhere it's supposed to be, and I
know when it's not.
Yes, oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, you and.
Brady would get along great.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah, I'm sure that we would.
I knew it even when I read hisbook, and I also was a swimmer,
by the way oh cool, I swim.
Yeah, you asked a question atthe end of your book If you had
the power to snap your fingersand make it so that you never
walk through your valley, neverexperienced the loss of a job, a
relationship, never got thatdiagnosis or never had to parent
(46:53):
a special needs child, wouldyou?
I instantly, I didn't even haveto think it was no, I mean
instantly, how about you?
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Oh, absolutely not.
I mean, I can't imagine,especially with now, with kind
families and taking this turn,even career-wise.
I know that I'm on the paththat I'm supposed to be on
personally.
I know that Brady is inspiringpeople and I wouldn't want him.
I don't know.
(47:24):
I I, of course I love my kid.
We're all biased about our kids, right, but I, I even see some
of the you know things going onwith my neurotypical friends,
kids, and I'd rather have mine.
I'd rather have mine.
That still is, you know, comingup with creative things and
still lets me tuck him in bed atnight.
(47:46):
He'd be mad if he knew that Iwould let him let that slip.
But you know, and and has faithand isn't caught up in, you
know, the teenager.
Let me figure out who I'm goingto be, and so I'm going to be
somebody different every otherweek.
I mean, brady knows exactly whohe is and he can't fake being
(48:07):
something that he's not, and so,and all the people that have
come into our lives, I just Icannot imagine him being any
other different, any differentthan he is today.
And he asked me I actuallyblogged about this too one time
if he would have autism inheaven.
And that was a tough one and Ihad to think about it a little
(48:30):
bit, but I said, yeah, you know,I don't think you're going to
have the hard things aboutautism.
I don't think you're going tostruggle with communicating with
your peers or, you know,staying organized or all of
these other things.
They're not going to strugglewith communicating with your
peers or you know, stayingorganized or all of these other
things.
They're not going to meananything anymore.
But you are who you are, withautism included, and I don't
(48:52):
think heaven would be as good ifyou didn't have autism, because
then you wouldn't have all ofthose wonderful qualities that
autism brings.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
You have all of those wonderful qualities that autism
brings you, and so it's true.
So many people with autismreally bring very beautiful
things to this world, and Ithink that we would have a very
different world if we didn'thave autistic individuals.
So could you talk more aboutfinding kind families in your
(49:24):
podcast a little bit, and howpeople can get ahold of you?
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Sure, so easiest way is kindfamiliescom, which is the
Kind Families website.
The Kind Families podcast is onApple and Spotify and we
release episodes every otherTuesday.
So we're about to wrap up thefirst season of Kind Families
podcast and we'll start into thenew season in a few weeks.
(49:51):
And then Finding Kind.
You can actually access throughthe Kind Families website and
it is available as an ebook onAmazon as well.
We'll be hopefully releasing apaperback and audiobook later,
but right now, hardback isavailable through my website and
(50:12):
ebook on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
So when they come to your website and they want to
join the community, what shouldpeople expect?
Speaker 2 (50:22):
So the community right now is getting some blogs,
some of the stories that I'mwriting on a regular basis and
updates on some of the podcastguests that I have coming.
You can certainly reach out.
There is a way to reach out tome directly and I respond to
everything personally.
So if somebody has a personalquestion that they want to ask
(50:44):
or access to resources and thatsort of thing, the Kind Families
website does have a resourcepage questionnaire that I filled
out online.
There's an organization calledthe Southwest Autism Research
and Resource Center here inPhoenix and that was their
(51:06):
questionnaire that they now usein screenings and preschools and
all over the place and it's areal quick and easy thing to
just kind of say you know, isthis a possibility for my child
and also a similar one for ADHD?
So there's tools and resources.
There's an opportunity toaccess me, access the podcast
(51:28):
and order the book as well.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
I think it's so amazing that you have done this
with your time and you walkedaway from a 30-year career to do
this for other people and takeyour story with your son and
help other people.
You know, I want to end withthese beautiful words that
you've said.
Sometimes you have to take youreyes off the elephant in the
(51:51):
room and concentrate on theblessings around it, and that
really, again, as a visualperson, you know.
Know, I want to thank you forsaying that, because so many
times we can miss the beauty inthe room because we are so
focused on the one thing or whatwe consider to be a problem and
(52:11):
we can miss all the beautyaround it.
And my kids and your brady are,you know, they're the most
beautiful children and they weremade on purpose, for a purpose,
like you said, and I see themall the time making a difference
in others' lives and I wouldn'thave it any other way.
(52:32):
So thank you so much, carrie,for being here today and you
know you've made a differencehere.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Thank you so much and I've loved our conversation,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah, and for our listeners, we will see you next
time.
Thank you for listening.
Go to Carrie Baker's website ifyou want more information.
You can also take the onlinequiz that she talked about.
That is used across the countryto determine if you or your
child might have autism.
There are many helps andresources.
(53:05):
You do not have to do thisjourney alone.
If you want more informationfrom Ann, you can go to
RealTalkTinaAnncom.
You can visit our website,leave a message on the mic on
the lower right-hand side and wewill respond.
You can also go to our Facebookpage, realtalkwithtinaanncom.
Having autism and any invisibledifference is nothing to be
(53:27):
ashamed of.
There is not a stigma attachedto it.
There doesn't need to be.
It is a beautiful thing to haveautism and other invisible
differences.
I have lived with it all of mylife and I'm proud of who I am.
Three of my kids have invisibledifferences and I am so proud
of them.
Remember also that every personwith autism is just one person
(53:49):
with autism.
We are all people first.
Autism does not define us.
It is just a piece of who weare.
Get to know that whole personbehind that word.
Don't let definitions defineyou and do not let anything
limit what you can do.
You can do whatever it is youwant to do.
Go for the top.
Be your best self in everyaspect of your life.
(54:11):
You might have to work a littleharder, but God has given you
the tools.
Keep adding to that tool belt.
You got this.
I'm going to leave you with afew quotes from Autism Parenting
Magazine.
Autism is not a puzzle nor adisease.
Autism is a challenge, butcertainly not a devastating one.
(54:31):
I want to talk about this for asecond.
Carrie and I touched on this.
Getting that diagnosis can bescary, but it only comes with
challenges, and challenges aremeant to be overcome.
I'm not saying at all thatautism is curable.
I'm simply stating that withthe diagnosis comes that
resilient spirit and tool beltto help us grow through life.
(54:53):
Everyone has something I alwayssay and honestly, this
diagnosis can lead to beautifulthings.
I know firsthand it is not atall devastating.
I have overcome so much, and sohave my kids.
It is scary because of theunknown, but if you surround
yourself with people who canhelp you do this, it really does
(55:17):
make a difference and we can bea part of your support.
I think this is one of myfavorite quotes I have heard
about autism.
So-called mild autism doesn'tmean one experiences autism
mildly.
It means you experience theirautism mildly.
You may not know how hardthey've worked to get where they
(55:37):
are.
This is so profound.
All I have to say about this is, yes, I have had so many people
say to me but you don't lookautistic or you don't act it.
Many of us work so hard to mask, make our disabilities
(55:58):
invisible, because we want tofit in, and to do that takes an
incredible amount of strengthand courage.
I am standing with each andevery one of you who fights this
fight and, lastly, otherfamilies might be on chapter 11.
Well, we're still on Chapter 8.
(56:19):
That's okay, though, becauseeven if we get stuck on a
chapter for a while, we're stillmoving forward, and that quote
was from Autism Odysseys.
We thank each and every one ofyou at Real Talk with Tina and
Anne.
Thank you so much for listeningand we will see you next time.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne.
This is part two of CarrieBaker's interview.
She is an author, speaker,advocate for people with
invisible neurologicaldisabilities.
She has founded Kind Families,a community of people who love
individuals with neurologicaldifferences.
She has written the bookFinding Kind Discovering Hope
(00:29):
and Purpose While Loving Kidswith Invisible Neurological
Differences.
In part two we talk about thekind community, the shame and
isolation that can come from notfitting in as a child or adult
with invisible differences or assomeone parenting someone with
those types of differences.
We mentioned the beautifulverse John 9, 13.
(00:51):
Carrie mentions how we wereborn on purpose, for a purpose.
We talk about the specialeducation system and how parents
can be prepared, going into IEPand other educational meetings
surrounded by educators.
We explain your rights and helpyou to understand that you are
the one in control of your child.
(01:11):
We talk about the whys, theanger with God and the fears
that can come with a diagnosis.
This is a must here for anyonewho knows someone who has an
invisible difference, or if youhave one yourself difference, or
if you have one yourself, likeAnne does.
She talks about this as well.
Thank you so much for listening.
And here is part two.
Speaker 2 (01:38):
We have been trying.
For instance, right now, my sonis in a hybrid homeschool
situation, so he's off schoolMondays and Fridays, and we had
to do that, you know,unfortunately, because of a
bullying issue that happened athis prior school and so we're.
You know we were kind ofthinking, okay, he's in eighth
grade, let's take a take a yearto do this kind of low stress
option, but he's bored, so we're, we're like how do we, how do
(02:00):
we take up his time on Mondaysand Fridays?
And we found a school that hasthese individual classes that
are one-on-one teacher taught,not online, where you can go in,
and they have things liketheater, art and cinema, and so
my Brady now is a huge moviebuff.
Like you go to a movie withthis kid and you will hear
(02:20):
details that he saw in thatmovie that you would never
imagine in your life.
And then journalism.
He picked out journalism becausewe've been watching the TV show
Smallville with Clark Kent andof course the reporters are in
there, and so we're trying allof these different avenues where
(02:42):
you know we know movies is hisnumber one thing, but there's
all these little offshoots thathe could really take a grasp on,
that utilize his gifts ofwriting and creativity and
performance art and those kindsof things.
So I think that's amazing.
And the drummer is the mostimportant, by the way.
So I'm on the worship team atmy church as a backup vocalist
(03:02):
and the drummer is the mostimportant.
So I'm on the worship team atmy church as a backup vocalist
and the drummer is the mostimportant.
So you can tell your son that.
Speaker 1 (03:09):
Well, he absolutely will eat that up.
Yes, because he's all aboutbeing the number one and wanting
to feel important.
So I'm just really proud of himand you know, I just want to
quickly say that you know we hadmentioned about me having
neurological differences and Iwas told that I would not
(03:29):
graduate high school and I got amaster's degree because I
taught myself how to learn byreading into a tape recorder and
listening to it, writing itdown and then memorizing it, and
it would take me hours to dowhat maybe somebody could do in
an hour for me to get barely a C.
But you know, I figured it outand that's, you know, people
(03:52):
with autism.
I think that we are also givingthis big tool belt of all kinds
of other things the resiliencyand the determination and that's
what I see in your son in thisbook.
It's just a beautiful story.
Speaker 2 (04:07):
Yeah, yeah, he's very brave, I think, you know he's
extremely courageous and hetries new things and has found
some that he doesn't like asmuch and some that he does.
But, um, you know, I think assomebody that was kind of raised
(04:29):
like you go get a businessdegree and because that's like
the smart thing to do, cause youcan do a lot of things with it
and that sort of thing, and Idon't regret that at all, I
don't regret my first 30 yearsin the career.
But I do talk about the factthat you know, the places where
I shined in my former careerwere when I was giving, you know
, educational sessions to theemployees, or it wasn't in,
(04:53):
believe me, I was not the personlike making somebody a million
dollars in the stock market oranything like that, so it was,
it was in the one-on-one that Iwould have with employees, or
giving presentations or writingmaterials to help them
understand things better.
And so, you know, it is kind ofinteresting to think now that
I've just done this complete 180and loving it so much and
(05:16):
feeling like I'm right where Ineed to be, and I just want
Brady to start that way.
You know, I don't want him togo 30 years of, you know,
processing widgets or whatever,doing spreadsheets, when that's
not his math and science or nothis thing.
And so we've just got to findthose creative outlets and a way
(05:36):
for him to really build a lifearound doing those, because if
he's doing that, he's going tofeel good about himself, he's
going to be successful, and it'snot about money or anything
else, but he's going to feelfulfilled.
Speaker 1 (05:53):
That's where we want him to be so yeah, you know, I
read that story about himswimming in that was it a lake
or whatever it was?
And and then the dead, the fishbones, and he's swimming and
I'm just like I was feeling it.
I mean I just was, my skin wascrawling even thinking about him
(06:14):
doing that On the spectrum.
Are you kidding?
I mean that was you want totalk about determination?
I mean, in every story with himit seemed like at first it was
a little difficult and it waskind of like, you know, you
weren't really sure if he wasgoing to get to the other side
of it, but he found it withinhimself to get to the other side
(06:36):
of it, even the first time hegot in the pool, you know, when
he just kept going.
So I don't know, you know, andI saw him continually make goals
for himself in the book and himreaching for them, and that was
just so amazing.
Speaker 2 (06:51):
Right, right, it's interesting.
So right now, he's never been asports kid really.
He's always loved to swim andhe did cross country and track
at his old school because it wasa small school and any kid
could participate and those areindividual sports.
But he's never been into likebasketball or football or
(07:12):
anything like that.
And he's told us now, I thinkthat he's in eighth grade that
kids go out on the basketballcourt and they and he's horrible
.
He will be the first.
I'm not, you know, divulginganything that he wouldn't allow
me to divulge.
He's horrible at basketball andfootball, but he wants to learn
it, and he goes Mom, I don'twant to be awesome at it, I just
(07:33):
want to be middle of the pack,I don't want to be awful anymore
.
And so there's actually a grouphere that focuses.
That focuses on special needsfitness, and, starting in a
couple weeks, we've got atrainer that's going to come
twice a week and just give himlike just give him, like you
know, these uh lessons on.
(07:55):
You know, throw a ball and getit to where you want it to go,
and dribble a ball withoutlosing control of it and um, and
have that work all in with hisphysical therapy as well and
building core and things likethat.
But you know, if he's going toexpress interest in it, we're
going to try to figure out a wayto help him See.
Speaker 1 (08:15):
I just love that, and we do that with ours too.
One of the things that you sayis I get so caught in.
Well, actually you wrote this ina kerrybakercom blog, your blog
yes, so I was reading those aswell and you said that you get
so caught up in the have-tosthat I overlook the get-tos of
(08:38):
parenting your child and thatGod carefully and thoughtfully
created to be yours.
And I somewhat will relate withthat, in that we have so many
appointments, there are so manythings that we have to do and
when I was reading through yourbook, you know all the meetings,
the school meetings, thedoctor's appointments, the pills
(08:59):
that we on our end have to takeeverywhere we go to make sure
we have everything, all thefidgets, the bag full of all the
kids' things, and we have tomake sure so much so that they
are okay that we oftentimesdon't get to enjoy it.
And I kind of laughed because Ihad this visual of you with the
(09:21):
DVD player in the car as youwere taking the kids to the
cavern field trip.
I think it was.
But I do that now.
I mean I've got my hand on thewheel, the DVD player back there
is not working or somethinghappens and I'm like this trying
to figure it out for them.
(09:42):
So, yeah, I totally get it, Irelate, yeah yes, it's juggling.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
I mean, I just watching you do that motion of
like reaching back, like I wasdoing with the, it's like, okay,
I can do this, I can drive andkeep us all safe and I can
change a dvd right behind myhead and, and we've got to give
ourselves permission to pullover, it's like, oh, my goodness
, I think it is.
It's just kind of ingrained inus as parents that we try to get
(10:13):
as much done as possible, butyou know, we've we've got to
stop missing the cool thingsthat that come along with
parenting a kid like this.
And um, and and that's true forall parents too I think we all
get caught up in the hustle andbustle whether it's kids are in
sports or in therapies, you knowand kind of miss out on the
(10:37):
relationship building piece ofit, and I'm guilty of that too.
So it's um, it's always good tolike take a step back and just
enjoy.
I went to a concert with Bradyyesterday and I just kind of
looked over at him and he justhad this smile on his face the
whole time listening to it andso I found myself kind of just
(10:58):
looking at him almost more thanthe stage, and there was a lot
going on on the stage.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
Oh, I do that too.
Yeah, my kids, I do that too,yeah.
Yeah, I mean, I call it mythird childhood because I had,
you know, mine, of course, andthen my older two, who I adopted
years ago, and now I have thesethree littles.
So I call it my third childhoodbecause I just love living
(11:22):
through them.
It's just so fun, because Ijust love living through them.
It's just so fun.
There was something else.
You know, gosh, there was somuch in your book that I
resonated with.
But the other day I asked mydaughter to clean her room,
which turned into a full out,yelling, screaming, you know,
and it got to this where I'mtelling her well, you can't do
(11:47):
this if you don't get this done,which everything I was doing or
saying was escalating thesituation.
And you talk about poker faceand say attention was a reward
for good behavior, not aresponse to bad behavior.
And I have this picture of youin my head with your son in one
part of your house and you inthe other, and you wanting so
(12:10):
badly to get to him and you knewthat you couldn't get go to him
because he needed to figure itout and calm down.
You know, I do ignore herbehaviors at times, and anything
that I say or do just escalatesthat behavior.
So it works.
Speaker 2 (12:29):
Yeah, yeah, I mean, we just had that happen,
actually two nights ago, withsomething where he kind of lost
it and went in his room and shutthe door and he was sitting up
against his door and of courseI'm pushing on the door going
come on, brady, it's time fordinner, you know.
And he's like I just need to bealone, mom, I just need to be
alone.
And I kind of went.
(12:50):
Okay, I know, I know that mypushing on the door that's not
going to get us anywhere andthat's one of the hardest things
to do.
And I remember a therapisttelling us that and I remember a
(13:31):
therapist telling us that youknow, you've got to be willing
to not go to that event or to,you know, miss out.
Then I guess we can't go to themovie, but that's okay, we'll
go again another day and do itwith the poker face without any
emotion or screaming or, youknow, gritting our teeth, which
is super hard.
But you know that really putthe ball back in his court to
make the decision.
He wasn't responding to me andit was a new concept for me that
my negative attention was evensomething that he was trying to
(13:52):
draw out in me, like he wastaking something from my
negative attention and thatwasn't helping us in the end
goal for anything.
So once I removed that, it'skind of like a tug of war Once I
(14:13):
drop my end of the rope hedoesn't have anything to tug on
anymore.
Speaker 1 (14:15):
Well, I love that he can let you know what he wants,
like when he told you that hewanted his chicken nuggets room
temperature or something likethat.
You know.
I think that that's so amazingbecause I constantly.
I think that that's one of thebiggest things is communication
and teaching our kids how toself advocate.
Speaker 2 (14:38):
Right.
Well, and you know we've we'vebeen focusing on that a lot and
now he has.
He has language that had todevelop and what the story of
him you know telling me that hischicken nuggets were burning
hot to him, even though theyseemed like they were room
temperature to me.
That was after, you know, yearsof of speech therapy and all
(14:59):
the things that he needed to beable to communicate that across.
Of course, now he's a teenagerand he throws that back at me.
You know he didn't want toparticipate in a school show and
he's like mom, I'mself-advocating by saying I
don't want to do it.
Oh my gosh, oh, wow.
(15:20):
But you know we're fortunatethat he has the language and
that he has, you know, thecomfort level, especially with
us and people that he's close to, to do that.
You know, unfortunately, thesame way, that the social stuff
is hard with the peers, just ona regular even keel level.
(15:41):
I think that you know thatshows itself in the bullying
situation with our kids as well,though.
So he's gotten really good atself-advocating with us, but if
he's in a situation with a peerwho is not being kind and he
doesn't really realize that,then that is still a real
(16:03):
struggle for him.
At his old school there was aboy who decided it was funny to
start saying that things thatwere weird were autistic Like,
oh, that's so autistic and I'mmaking up a song on the
playground about autism.
And and I wound up.
(16:24):
You know I spoke to theadministration.
They swore up and down theywould get it fixed and it still
continued to happen.
So I pulled him out, which wasvery traumatic for him, and we
were talking about it one dayand he goes Mom, I don't think
he was talking, I don't think hewas making fun of me.
I said Brady, you're the onlykid in the class that the whole
(16:44):
class knows has autism and hewasn't catching that.
You know this was a directattack on you and he actually
had a friend step up for him anddefend him.
But you know, so thatself-advocacy I think he's in
(17:04):
kind of the early stages of thatwhere he's able to start
sticking up for himself with usas parents and investing those
boundaries with us as parentsand advocating with teachers for
things that he needs.
But that peer-to-peerself-advocacy is something that
is a lot harder to come bySelf-advocacy is something that
(17:26):
is a lot harder to come by.
Speaker 1 (17:35):
I have my one daughter.
She self-advocates abouteverybody and everything and she
tells everybody what theyshould be doing or you know, or
what she wants, all day long.
But then I have one that,unfortunately, because his
disabilities are so great thathe gets teased and he actually
says to me but they're my friendand so because they're just
talking to him, so it's tryingto get him to understand no,
sweetie, they're not treatingyou very well right now, but
(18:00):
that's difficult too, because hewants somebody to really like
him.
And he does go to a differentschool now too, and he has some
friends, so he's very excitedabout that.
And, yeah, I mean, it's just soimportant.
I feel I mean gosh, bullies, itbreaks my heart.
(18:22):
I can remember one time wheremy one son he was playing
basketball and he was so littleand he was trying so hard and
these bigger kids came out andthey were just making, so they
were just teasing him so badlyand of course I went in and
advocated and I'm just like stopit.
But he was younger but notsaying something and trying to
(18:46):
step back and trying to givethem the tools to be able to do
that by themselves.
Oh, that's hard.
That's hard as a horse.
Speaker 2 (18:55):
It is.
It was hard for me not toapproach the kid at his old
school and have some words withhim.
But you know those experiences,though as hard as they are, and
what we've told Brady is thatyou know, now you understand,
you know if somebody is makingfun of autism, of something
(19:15):
that's a core of who you areit's not all of who you are, but
it is a part of you thenthey're not your friend.
You then they're not yourfriend.
And they are not just sayingsomething in general that just
happens to relate to somethingabout you.
They are attacking you.
And you know it goes back towhen he was in, I think, his
(19:35):
second grade.
There was a boy who wasphysically bullying him and we
practiced at home.
We'll call the kid Jimmy, butwe would practice at home and I
would touch Brady's arm or grabhis arm, and he would have to
yell stop it Jimmy.
And I was like that's not loudenough, brady, if I grab your
(19:57):
arm, you know.
And so we would practice thatStop it Jimmy, Stop it Jimmy.
Until he was able to yell.
Stop it Jimmy, stop it Jimmy.
Until he was able to yell, stopit Jimmy.
And you know, the cool thing is.
Brady and Jimmy wound up beingfriends a couple years later and
Jimmy that school handled it sogreat.
They got the boys together andthey made friends.
And that kid actually talkedabout feeling bad about the fact
(20:22):
that he was picking up.
Brady later in life.
But the physical stuff isalmost easier to address than
some of these undermining kindof behind the scenes mental
things that people do,especially once they hit middle
(20:42):
school, which is just a toughtime for everybody.
Speaker 1 (20:46):
But we're working on that you know, two of the things
that you really talk about isyour son's inability to connect
with other kids and how bad thathe or I don't like the word bad
how differently he has acted inpublic.
Sometimes that makes you justwant to explain to everyone in
(21:08):
the room, and I've gone intosituations like that too with my
kids, where I just want them tohave a shirt that says I have
autism.
Please be kind, you know,because lots of times I can
sense everybody's staring and Ijust want everybody to
understand.
You know, hey, and I have gonein and apologized before and
(21:30):
said I am sorry, you know he hasautism and we're still learning
.
So but the connection,especially with one of my kids
he is always on the outsidewhile the other kids are playing
and it's trying to teach himhow to join and that fight or
(21:50):
flight, I mean it's a real thing.
And because he gets sooverstimulated just because of
that alone, he goes into eithera run or he goes into flailing,
you know.
And so now it was so difficultfor to keep him in the classroom
and he's gifted, so that wasdifficult, so we decided to
(22:14):
homeschool him.
He's home now.
Speaker 2 (22:16):
And those you know.
We've figured out that theschooling decision is something
you almost have to make everyyear because the needs are
changing and his challenges arechanging.
You know, from an academicstandpoint, he can do all the
work.
He's a smart kid and he can doall the work, but can he listen
to a teacher who's just talkingat him for an hour and take a
(22:39):
note?
Take notes that are going tohelp him remember stuff for a
test?
Maybe not, you know.
And so you know, thehomeschooling thing that we're
doing now that's a hybrid isgreat in some ways, in that he's
able to self-study and he'sable to get through it just fine
.
But thank goodness, because, asan eighth grade, the eighth
(23:03):
grade material is starting toget to the point where mom's not
as much help as she used to bein elementary school.
But he wants to be challenged,he wants to have, you know, that
teacher relationship and hewants to have, he wants more.
And so you know, I think theschooling thing is going to be
just a, and every year we needto look at it.
(23:25):
We're doing that right now forninth grade, because he's high
school last year, and what'sgoing to be the best environment
for him socially andacademically?
So, and you know, I guess we'vewe've proven with our track
record of the different schoolsthat he's been in, that we're
willing to make a change if it'snot the right fit.
Speaker 1 (23:44):
Oh yeah, so it's all about change.
Speaking of autism and peoplenot liking change yes, yeah,
yeah, that kind of goes.
I mean, I just expect changeevery single day, so I have
learned to just go with change.
Now, one of the things is thatyou talked about with your
(24:06):
husband which was really amazingwhen you found out that, or you
were thinking that he mighthave autism.
Your husband said OK, so whatdo we do now?
I mean, what a great responseto that.
So what would you say toparents who are hearing the word
(24:27):
autism or whatever it is,whatever invisible disability it
is?
Speaker 2 (24:35):
what would you say to them when they're hearing it
for the first time?
Well, first of all, denial isnot going to help at all and
I've seen friends that havedenied it or said, oh, they'll
just grow out of it type ofthing and put off getting their
children the types ofinterventions that would really
help them later in life, andthat breaks my heart.
So please, if you've even gotan inkling that there might be
(25:00):
some kind of an invisibledifference, you know, get it
confirmed and get some help foryour child, the sooner the
better.
Secondly, I do know that ourfamily is a little bit unique
and that my husband did justaccept it and we were in
lockstep on the fact that wewere going to work as hard as we
could to get Brady all theservices that he needed.
And I have other friends whosehusbands have not been as
(25:24):
understanding, and in that caseI think you have to just keep
moving forward.
You can't put off the kinds ofhelp that your child could
really benefit from andhopefully get some counseling or
some other folks to talk toyour spouse about what needs to
be done to make sure that yourchild has the best possible life
(25:47):
.
But you know, those are kind ofmore, you know, getting into
action mode.
But the other thing I would sayis, you know, find community.
You are not alone.
There are other families thatare going through something very
similar and maybe just may be alittle bit further down the
path than you are.
(26:07):
And when I found those moms,that was life-changing for me to
be able to sit down and havecoffee with a few people whose
kids, like you said, they're notthe same Every kid is different
but there are some similaritiesin a lot of the behaviors and
the passions and the interestsand those kinds of things.
(26:32):
And there are stories that willhelp you feel like your child is
not some anomaly that camealong.
Your child is just born with abrain wiring that's different.
And then, lastly, don't ever,don't, ever like somebody told
your family and like don't everdiscount what your child can do
(26:57):
based on a diagnosis or even asuspected diagnosis we had.
We walked into our first parenttraining when Brady was three
and our heads were stillspinning from all the autism
research we'd been doing, andshe told us to cash out his
college fund and, to you know,start thinking about building a
casita on the back of our housefor him to live with us forever,
(27:20):
and just she'd set thisexpectation up, that he was
never going to be able to doanything except go to therapies
and, you know, live in ourgarage, oh boy.
Wow.
Speaker 1 (27:47):
And that I mean it is .
It's almost criminal to havethose kinds of comments.
Yeah, I've said that.
You know it makes me so upsetto see teacher, educators or
medical people think that theyare God and know for sure that
this is the path for your child,right?
Speaker 2 (27:57):
And so I, you know, your, your child is the same
child as somebody very wise toldme this a while back.
He is exactly the same kid theday before the diagnosis as the
day after the diagnosis.
So, nothing has changed.
What has changed is that nowyou have a roadmap.
That diagnosis is just aroadmap to help you understand
(28:21):
how best to help your child copewith a world that was not
designed for him or her and tobe able to thrive in it.
And so you know.
There's so many of thoselessons that it took me a long
time to learn, but it's so muchbetter now, I think, than 10
years ago when Brady wasdiagnosed.
I really wasn't on.
(28:43):
Facebook, and you know I hadn'tever listened to a podcast.
There wasn't this kind of justglobal encouragement, and there
wasn't there, quite frankly,there wasn't the demographics of
the kids out there that havethis.
So you know, when I felt like Iwas the only person I knew with
a kid with autism which was thecase initially, I mean, now you
(29:07):
can't.
If you go into a classroom,it's likely that one of the kids
in there is going to haveautism or one of these other
invisible neurologicaldifferences that fall under this
kind of kind umbrella, whetherit's dyslexia or ADHD or OCD or
sensory processing like almostone in five kids has something
(29:29):
that kind of falls under thiskind umbrella.
So it's not that you're notalone.
You're actually part of a hugecommunity of families that are
out there who are looking forthe same kind of hope and
encouragement that you are.
Speaker 1 (29:41):
Yeah, I love that you have formed this community and
that you wanted to go outsideand help all these other people
Some of the challenges that youknow.
You have a whole chapter onshame and I think that having
the community really helpsfamilies realize that they're
(30:04):
not the only one Right, and thatbecause a couple of the things
that you touched on have reallyhas really hit me in that you
know, one of the hardest thingsfor me is to secretly see
neurotypical kids playing andfamilies being able to go out
(30:27):
and they do not have thedifficulties that we do, and
also that it's also hard towatch other kids soar to great.
But then I always remind myselfbut he's got it, he's going to
(30:51):
be okay, he's got the skillshe's growing every single day.
But those things enter in andthere are moments of sadness
when you see that or that kidsare growing towards independence
and reality.
I know that especially one ofmine might not ever be
(31:14):
completely independent and youknow those add moments of you
don't want to talk about it, youdon't want to put it out there
and you know I appreciated thatchapter on shame.
Speaker 2 (31:29):
Yeah, and it wasn't shame in our kids.
It wasn't my shame of Brady atall.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
No, not at all.
Speaker 2 (31:37):
I have always kind of been a people pleaser.
I've been a, you know, I've gotto go out and achieve, I've got
to walk into a room and figureout what the need is and go meet
it.
And having a kid, that was verydifferent, it was very
isolating.
Right right, you know, I was,like you were saying, watching
the other families with the kids.
(31:57):
You know I would inkindergarten, preschool,
kindergarten and first grade.
I always felt like the othermoms were looking at me because
Brady had an aide in the classand saying, well, what did you
know?
What's wrong with him?
What is you know?
What did she do wrong?
What is you know?
(32:20):
And I, I isolated myself fromrelationships in those groups
because I didn't feel like I fitin.
I was not.
I did not have the, you know,quote unquote typical kid that
was doing the sports.
We weren't going to basketballpractices, we were going to
speech therapy, you know, and itwas.
It was this unexpected.
What I consider to be a failurein my life plan, you know, and
(32:43):
I had to.
I had a lot, of, a lot of stuffI had to deal with and some of
it was I mean, I'm not going tolie, there were some people out
there who were not kind.
There were some parents inBrady's classroom who were not
kind.
And so there were things feedingthat fear and that shame too.
Um too.
(33:04):
But I remember taking Brady tothat special school first.
When we took him out of thatpreschool and kindergarten that
he was in, and all the parentsat the pickup line were saying,
oh, what therapy are you goingto this afternoon?
Or what medication is your kidon?
And I was like what, what wecan talk about this.
And it was just this huge weightthat was lifted off my
(33:30):
shoulders and so it's now.
I mean, I'm so proud of whatBrady can do, and you know Brady
can do, and you know, is therea little part of me that you
know I see kids that are, youknow, in the playoffs for their
(33:52):
basketball team or, you know,traveling.
I'm glad he doesn't play soccer.
I've never liked soccer, sothat was that one I'm very
grateful for.
He never got into soccer.
But you know going totournaments and things like that
.
So do I have these littleinklings every now and then?
Yeah, I still do.
But I would much rather have akid who's published, got his
foreword in front of a book, andyou know, we were at church
(34:17):
yesterday and there was a momthat came up to me that I didn't
know and she introduced herselfbecause Brady's been helping
out in the little kids area andher son, who is on the spectrum,
and he just gravitated to Bradyand he just walked up and held
his hand and said mommy, can wego outside and play?
And Brady took him out into theplayground and they played
together.
(34:37):
And that's the kid I want, andthat's the kid I'm proud of, and
those other things.
That's their path, those otherthings that those kids are doing
that's their family's path.
It's not ours.
Speaker 1 (34:50):
and they can rewrite their story along the way many
different times, but I really dofeel that everybody has a
purpose and there is a reasonthat my kids your son has autism
and I have autism and it's used.
(35:13):
One of the things that I lovedin your book was John 9, 13,.
Rabbi who sinned this man orhis parents, that he was born
blind?
And Jesus says neither this mannor his parents sinned, but
this happened so that the worksof God might be displayed in him
(35:36):
.
I think so many of us feel thatwe did something wrong, but you
say in your book God made himthat way on purpose, for a
purpose.
That is so beautiful and Goddoesn't make mistakes, period.
I love your poem to Brady, bythe way, and you said you are
(35:57):
God's work of art and I thoughtthat that was so powerful.
Yes, and I thought that thatwas so powerful.
Speaker 2 (36:02):
Yeah, yes, and he is he's.
You know the.
The tagline that Brady's usedin the foreword that he we use
kind of when he's he's relatingis you're fearfully and
wonderfully made.
We are all fearfully andwonderfully made, and and even
if I mean I am not saying thatall kind kids need to go off and
(36:25):
ride a forward or swim twomiles in a lake or anything like
that- but they're going to runinto people whose lives.
they realizes what their purposeis here on this earth, and if
there's one, kind of commonthread that I've noticed with
most kind kids is that they arekind and they make positive
(36:56):
impacts on people.
Speaker 1 (36:58):
Oh yes, yeah, we were at a fair and my son, who has
the most challenges, was on aride and there was a man who was
having a very difficult timegetting out of his ride and my
son went right over to him,grabbed his hands and helped him
, walked all the way with himtill he was off of the ride.
(37:20):
Oh my gosh, you know I mean,those things are more important
to me than him getting an A inmath.
Speaker 2 (37:30):
Yeah, Well, and you know, I read somewhere, you know
our kids with autism and youmight experience this.
They might have communicationproblems with another kid, but
that doesn't mean that they arenot super perceptive about other
things that we can't see.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
I always say we can see a tear before it falls.
Yeah, I know that kind of thing.
Yeah, because so many timesthey really just say that we're
not empathetic.
But I don't believe that.
You know, we do get stuck inour ways and we, you know, might
, but for the most part we dogenuinely care deeply about
(38:08):
other people and wantrelationship.
Yes, one of the other thingsthat you touched on when you
were talking about schoolsearlier I wanted to mention this
was that you know, specialeducation has its own language
and when you have severaleducational professionals in
front of you talking test scoresand goals, it can be so
(38:31):
confusing if you don'tunderstand the language and you
don't realize that you need tolearn what all that means and
you need to go in knowing whatyour child needs, and with a
fight, because if you want yourchild to become their best self,
you have to understand what allthe lingo is and also realize
that you have a say at the table.
(38:56):
You don't agree and you can goin with advocates to help you
get what your child deserves.
And I also like how you likenit to owning a business that you
know nothing about and theseteachers and doctors are your
employees, and that is true, butit also it's so empowering
(39:16):
because you are in control ofyour child, not them.
Speaker 2 (39:20):
Right and you know your child best.
You know exactly how they reactto criticism.
One of the cool things that Ithink is coming out of that
school conversation now is, whenyou're in an IEP meeting, don't
just talk about all the thingsthat your kid is challenged by,
Also talk about all theirstrengths so that they can start
(39:40):
to play to those strengths.
So Brady has, you know,rejection.
Sensitive dysphoria is one ofthe diagnoses that we got, where
if somebody comes in reallyhard and critical of him, he
will melt, and so there has tobe a better approach of somebody
in that authority figure.
(40:01):
If Brady's doing something thatneeds to be corrected, it
cannot be Brady.
You're not doing that right.
That will not create the resultthat they're looking for.
There has to be Brady.
You did this really well, thispart.
Let's see if we could do that alittle bit better.
And so there's all kinds ofadvancements that I think that
(40:24):
are out there that parents canlean on to school district,
created an entire school withinthe public school system.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
It's a separate school for kids that fall in the
gap class, and every classroomonly has like six kids and they
(41:05):
meet every child where they are.
I mean, can you imagine goingin meeting every child right
where they are?
You know so, but it can be sohard to find the exact place for
our kiddos to go to school andbe their best self.
Speaker 2 (41:21):
That is.
That's one of the other reallyexciting things, and I'm in the
Phoenix greater Phoenix area,I'm in Scottsdale and there is
actually one of Brady'stherapists that he went to.
They created a school just likewhat you're talking about for
kids kindergarten through thirdgrade and they're now expanding
that to some later grades wherethey have those smaller
(41:44):
classrooms.
They're getting them includedin other activities with typical
kids in the mainstreamclassroom, but there's
behavioral techs that know howto guide the kids in the moment
to really get the most out oftheir day at school, and I think
there's a lot of really neat,exciting things that people are
(42:05):
starting to pick up on and alsobecause of people like you who
have had this successful careerpath and they know that our kids
have things to contribute.
Our kids are going to be able tocontribute awesome things to
the world and the community andorganizations and we've got to
figure out a better way to helpthem be able to do that.
Speaker 1 (42:29):
You know, I love how you say in the book that our
feelings don't drive results.
Our actions do.
And as a parent of specialneeds kids, you know all we and
you say, all we need is awillingness to take the next
step forward.
We need to get up the nextmorning, read the next article,
(42:51):
go to the next appointment andtalk to the next person.
And if we keep finding the nextthing to do, even if it's a
mistake you know it's anexperience.
Even if it's a mistake, youknow it's an experience.
And having kids that havespecial needs and you know it's
an active type of parenting wehave to be on the front line.
(43:15):
If I allowed my feelings todictate what we do, there would
be days that I would just sit inbed and not do anything, you
know.
So it's that getting up anddoing it again the next day.
Speaker 2 (43:30):
Yeah, yeah, and that's kind of the definition of
courage, right.
So that's, you know, getting upand doing the hard thing, and I
think that every kind parent,that's what you are going to be
empowered with because of thelove you have for your child and
your desire for them to havethe best possible outcome,
absolutely.
Speaker 1 (43:51):
Yeah, you also mentioned about anger and being
angry with God, and I have hadmy moments with tears asking why
.
And you know, having a lifewhere there's, at times,
continual frustration orhardship, with little breaks,
(44:12):
can definitely cause moments ofquestioning and being angry.
And the other part of it isfear.
Fear is huge.
I mean being afraid of theunknown, afraid of what even our
day could be like, and you knowthere was a line in your book
which is actually the mantra onour podcast, so I found that
(44:35):
interesting.
You say that pain has a purposeand we always say that there is
purpose in the pain and hope inthe journey.
So I believe in using our painfor good.
Speaker 2 (44:48):
Yeah, absolutely.
And if you can let yourself seethe purpose in the pain, it's
going to change your life too,and the purpose is kind of the
foundation that we all need tohave in going forward.
We've got to have our lensesdialed into.
(45:10):
This is my purpose, this is mykid's purpose, and try to just
take a step every day towardsthat.
And try to just take a stepevery day towards that.
Speaker 1 (45:22):
Well, if we do what you say in the book and to, you
know, not have the invisiblecloak but put on the armor of
God, so where no one candiminish our worth, which I
found so profound, I actuallyI'm such a visual person and so
(45:44):
I really appreciate all yourvisuals, like that.
It was like, oh yeah, you know,you know, but I'm the armor of
God, I'm picturing like I haveThor's hammer and I've got, you
know, like all the Avenger stuffon, and so I love it.
Yeah, that's my autism comingout, because I'm a big Marvel
(46:05):
person, dc person.
Speaker 2 (46:07):
Oh yeah Great, my son is too.
You guys could probably go onand on about that.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
So as I mentioned, I have a room just for that, and
everything has to be exactlywhere it's supposed to be, and I
know when it's not.
Yes, oh gosh.
Speaker 2 (46:26):
Well, you and.
Brady would get along great.
Speaker 1 (46:29):
Yeah, I'm sure that we would.
I knew it even when I read hisbook, and I also was a swimmer,
by the way oh cool, I swim.
Yeah, you asked a question atthe end of your book If you had
the power to snap your fingersand make it so that you never
walk through your valley, neverexperienced the loss of a job, a
relationship, never got thatdiagnosis or never had to parent
(46:53):
a special needs child, wouldyou?
I instantly, I didn't even haveto think it was no, I mean
instantly, how about you?
Speaker 2 (47:04):
Oh, absolutely not.
I mean, I can't imagine,especially with now, with kind
families and taking this turn,even career-wise.
I know that I'm on the paththat I'm supposed to be on
personally.
I know that Brady is inspiringpeople and I wouldn't want him.
I don't know.
(47:24):
I I, of course I love my kid.
We're all biased about our kids, right, but I, I even see some
of the you know things going onwith my neurotypical friends,
kids, and I'd rather have mine.
I'd rather have mine.
That still is, you know, comingup with creative things and
still lets me tuck him in bed atnight.
(47:46):
He'd be mad if he knew that Iwould let him let that slip.
But you know, and and has faithand isn't caught up in, you
know, the teenager.
Let me figure out who I'm goingto be, and so I'm going to be
somebody different every otherweek.
I mean, brady knows exactly whohe is and he can't fake being
(48:07):
something that he's not, and so,and all the people that have
come into our lives, I just Icannot imagine him being any
other different, any differentthan he is today.
And he asked me I actuallyblogged about this too one time
if he would have autism inheaven.
And that was a tough one and Ihad to think about it a little
(48:30):
bit, but I said, yeah, you know,I don't think you're going to
have the hard things aboutautism.
I don't think you're going tostruggle with communicating with
your peers or, you know,staying organized or all of
these other things.
They're not going to strugglewith communicating with your
peers or you know, stayingorganized or all of these other
things.
They're not going to meananything anymore.
But you are who you are, withautism included, and I don't
(48:52):
think heaven would be as good ifyou didn't have autism, because
then you wouldn't have all ofthose wonderful qualities that
autism brings.
Speaker 1 (49:01):
You have all of those wonderful qualities that autism
brings you, and so it's true.
So many people with autismreally bring very beautiful
things to this world, and Ithink that we would have a very
different world if we didn'thave autistic individuals.
So could you talk more aboutfinding kind families in your
(49:24):
podcast a little bit, and howpeople can get ahold of you?
Speaker 2 (49:28):
Sure, so easiest way is kindfamiliescom, which is the
Kind Families website.
The Kind Families podcast is onApple and Spotify and we
release episodes every otherTuesday.
So we're about to wrap up thefirst season of Kind Families
podcast and we'll start into thenew season in a few weeks.
(49:51):
And then Finding Kind.
You can actually access throughthe Kind Families website and
it is available as an ebook onAmazon as well.
We'll be hopefully releasing apaperback and audiobook later,
but right now, hardback isavailable through my website and
(50:12):
ebook on Amazon.
Speaker 1 (50:15):
So when they come to your website and they want to
join the community, what shouldpeople expect?
Speaker 2 (50:22):
So the community right now is getting some blogs,
some of the stories that I'mwriting on a regular basis and
updates on some of the podcastguests that I have coming.
You can certainly reach out.
There is a way to reach out tome directly and I respond to
everything personally.
So if somebody has a personalquestion that they want to ask
(50:44):
or access to resources and thatsort of thing, the Kind Families
website does have a resourcepage questionnaire that I filled
out online.
There's an organization calledthe Southwest Autism Research
and Resource Center here inPhoenix and that was their
(51:06):
questionnaire that they now usein screenings and preschools and
all over the place and it's areal quick and easy thing to
just kind of say you know, isthis a possibility for my child
and also a similar one for ADHD?
So there's tools and resources.
There's an opportunity toaccess me, access the podcast
(51:28):
and order the book as well.
Speaker 1 (51:31):
I think it's so amazing that you have done this
with your time and you walkedaway from a 30-year career to do
this for other people and takeyour story with your son and
help other people.
You know, I want to end withthese beautiful words that
you've said.
Sometimes you have to take youreyes off the elephant in the
(51:51):
room and concentrate on theblessings around it, and that
really, again, as a visualperson, you know.
Know, I want to thank you forsaying that, because so many
times we can miss the beauty inthe room because we are so
focused on the one thing or whatwe consider to be a problem and
(52:11):
we can miss all the beautyaround it.
And my kids and your brady are,you know, they're the most
beautiful children and they weremade on purpose, for a purpose,
like you said, and I see themall the time making a difference
in others' lives and I wouldn'thave it any other way.
(52:32):
So thank you so much, carrie,for being here today and you
know you've made a differencehere.
Speaker 2 (52:40):
Thank you so much and I've loved our conversation,
thank you.
Speaker 1 (52:45):
Yeah, and for our listeners, we will see you next
time.
Thank you for listening.
Go to Carrie Baker's website ifyou want more information.
You can also take the onlinequiz that she talked about.
That is used across the countryto determine if you or your
child might have autism.
There are many helps andresources.
(53:05):
You do not have to do thisjourney alone.
If you want more informationfrom Ann, you can go to
RealTalkTinaAnncom.
You can visit our website,leave a message on the mic on
the lower right-hand side and wewill respond.
You can also go to our Facebookpage, realtalkwithtinaanncom.
Having autism and any invisibledifference is nothing to be
(53:27):
ashamed of.
There is not a stigma attachedto it.
There doesn't need to be.
It is a beautiful thing to haveautism and other invisible
differences.
I have lived with it all of mylife and I'm proud of who I am.
Three of my kids have invisibledifferences and I am so proud
of them.
Remember also that every personwith autism is just one person
(53:49):
with autism.
We are all people first.
Autism does not define us.
It is just a piece of who weare.
Get to know that whole personbehind that word.
Don't let definitions defineyou and do not let anything
limit what you can do.
You can do whatever it is youwant to do.
Go for the top.
Be your best self in everyaspect of your life.
(54:11):
You might have to work a littleharder, but God has given you
the tools.
Keep adding to that tool belt.
You got this.
I'm going to leave you with afew quotes from Autism Parenting
Magazine.
Autism is not a puzzle nor adisease.
Autism is a challenge, butcertainly not a devastating one.
(54:31):
I want to talk about this for asecond.
Carrie and I touched on this.
Getting that diagnosis can bescary, but it only comes with
challenges, and challenges aremeant to be overcome.
I'm not saying at all thatautism is curable.
I'm simply stating that withthe diagnosis comes that
resilient spirit and tool beltto help us grow through life.
(54:53):
Everyone has something I alwayssay and honestly, this
diagnosis can lead to beautifulthings.
I know firsthand it is not atall devastating.
I have overcome so much, and sohave my kids.
It is scary because of theunknown, but if you surround
yourself with people who canhelp you do this, it really does
(55:17):
make a difference and we can bea part of your support.
I think this is one of myfavorite quotes I have heard
about autism.
So-called mild autism doesn'tmean one experiences autism
mildly.
It means you experience theirautism mildly.
You may not know how hardthey've worked to get where they
(55:37):
are.
This is so profound.
All I have to say about this is, yes, I have had so many people
say to me but you don't lookautistic or you don't act it.
Many of us work so hard to mask, make our disabilities
(55:58):
invisible, because we want tofit in, and to do that takes an
incredible amount of strengthand courage.
I am standing with each andevery one of you who fights this
fight and, lastly, otherfamilies might be on chapter 11.
Well, we're still on Chapter 8.
(56:19):
That's okay, though, becauseeven if we get stuck on a
chapter for a while, we're stillmoving forward, and that quote
was from Autism Odysseys.
We thank each and every one ofyou at Real Talk with Tina and
Anne.
Thank you so much for listeningand we will see you next time.
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