The simple act of handing a ham and cheese sandwich to a homeless woman named Millie sparked something extraordinary – a movement that would transform the lives of over a million people experiencing homelessness across America.
Karen Olson's story begins with profound childhood loss. When her mother died by suicide, it created a hole in her heart that gave her unique empathy for others' suffering. Years later, while working in corporate America developing marketing campaigns, Karen felt called to something more meaningful. That sandwich in 1981 became the first step in a journey that would change countless lives, including her own.
What makes Karen's approach revolutionary is her philosophy of meeting people exactly where they are, without judgment. After discovering that families with children represented 35% of the homeless population, she created the innovative model behind Family Promise: religious congregations working together to provide shelter in their buildings on a rotational basis, with volunteers offering meals, support, and most importantly, human connection.
The statistics Karen shares are sobering – one in 30 children experiences homelessness annually, with most renting families spending over half their income on housing. But Family Promise's 81% success rate offers hope in addressing this crisis. Now operating in 44 states with 200,000+ volunteers (a volunteer force larger than Ford's workforce), the organization has expanded to include prevention, transitional housing, and comprehensive support services.
Karen's personal journey took another challenging turn when a cryotherapy accident left her with a spinal cord injury. Yet she continues finding ways to make a difference through speaking engagements and adaptive painting, embodying Pablo Picasso's wisdom: "The meaning of life is to find your gift. The purpose of life is to give it away."
Join us for this powerful conversation about turning pain into purpose, the healing that comes from helping others, and how authentic human connection can transform both the helped and the helper. Whether you're curious about addressing homelessness in your community or seeking inspiration to make a difference, Karen's story reminds us that we all have the power to create ripples of positive change.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:08):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne, karen.
I am so moved to have you here,not just because of your book
Meant for More, following yourHeart and Finding your Passion,
but the movement that you havebuilt, the compassion that you
live by, and the way that youturn personal pain into a
(00:30):
nationwide purpose.
Your philosophy of meetingpeople exactly where they are is
something that I absolutelylove.
You didn't just dream of change.
You created it, one act ofkindness at a time.
It all began with a simple hamand cheese sandwich in New York
(00:53):
City.
That just made me smile.
A moment of connection with awoman named Millie who was
experiencing homelessness.
That moment sparked somethingfar greater than you could have
ever imagined.
It became the beginning ofFamily Promise, a national
organization that you createdwith one act of kindness and now
(01:17):
, 38 years later, continues tooffer individuals and families
with children the dignity ofshelter, stability and hope.
Today, thanks to your vision,family Promise is powered by
over 200,000 volunteersnationwide and serves more than
(01:38):
180,000 men, women and childreneach year.
You have helped more than amillion people.
That is more than a mission.
It is a national movement.
Now, this is impressive If youconverted volunteers into
(02:00):
employees.
As you say in the book.
You, behind Ford and in frontof Disney and Costco, family
Promise has kept its promise andbecame the nation's leader in
helping people who are unhoused.
You have been able to provideshelter, transitional housing,
(02:22):
affordable housing and a host ofother services and programs for
families that we will talkabout today.
You also have a success rate ofI think it was like over
80-some percent 81% that'samazing.
You personally were invited tothe White House in 1992 and
(02:42):
received the Annual Points ofLight Award for your use of
volunteers to help solve asocial problem, and what I love
most is that in your entirestory, actually.
But you are proof that it isn'tjust about homelessness or
volunteering.
It's about healing, and one ofthe messages that threads
(03:03):
throughout your entire book isthat when we help others, we
don't just lift them, but wealso are helping ourselves, and
I think that that's reallyimportant.
You are a great example ofturning pain into purpose.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
It is an honor to have you here.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well, thank you, anne , it's my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I want to take a moment to talk about your
childhood and then we'll leadinto your work with Family
Promise.
But when I first read about thepain and the loss that you
experienced as a child, I washeartbroken.
When I read the words on thepage, I am so sorry for what you
(03:49):
went through.
I truly didn't expect it,because on the outside your
family looked picture perfect.
You know you lived in anaffluent community, went to
church, had a 33-foot cabincruiser, a successful father who
was an architect and had a deepbond with your mom.
(04:12):
You know you played outside,did all the things that you know
I did as a kid.
You know swam I was a swimmer,caught frogs.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
you know we lived outside back then, right Before
the internet, right, yeah, yeah,we played all the time when we
went out, played on the streetin somebody's yard, yep yep, but
you are living proof that wenever truly know what someone is
going through, is going through.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Your story shifted from that picture perfect to a
painful moment in just onesecond.
A clear line, when innocencewas lost and time was divided.
You wrote that childhood shapesus.
How did it shape you?
Would you be willing to sharewhat happened?
Would you be willing to sharewhat happened?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yes, I will.
As I mentioned, I was veryclose to my mother, not so close
to my father.
He was an alcoholic, but he didstop drinking when he was 40
and he found AA.
But I was even closer to mymother, probably because we
(05:27):
could never rely on my father,you know, because of his
drinking.
But I was extremely close to mymother and she was close to me
and all the neighborhood kids,everybody loved my mother.
She was a lot of fun to be withand we would load up in her
Chevrolet and go to the beachevery day during the summer, and
she was right there, it wasvery good.
Or we would go out in our boat,load up in her Chevrolet, and
(05:48):
go to the beach every day duringthe summer, and she was right
there, it was very good.
Or we would go out in our boatand learn to water ski.
But one day I left for schooland I hugged my mother.
Goodbye.
That's after I had breakfastwith her.
She drank coffee, I said, atthe table, and had toast and
(06:09):
juice, and then she said goodbyeto me and hugged me and I
usually when she stays at thewindow and waves, but this time
she continued to say the window.
So I turned around as I crossedthe street.
She was still waving, so Iwaved.
(06:30):
I walked a few steps into theneighbor's yard, turned around
and she was still waving, so Iwaved.
I cut across the yard, about toclimb over the stone wall, and
I thought I saw her still waving.
So that was very unusualbehavior, but I didn't think
anything of it.
And then I got the bus to school.
(06:50):
And when I got the bus toschool I had classes.
And then lunch came and I wentto my homeroom because we had
lunch in our homerooms and awoman came in.
I finished my sandwich, had anice cream sandwich.
(07:11):
Woman came in from the officeand looked at Mr Luce that was a
homeroom teacher and thenlooked at me and they whispered.
And then Mr Luce said when,after the secretary from the
office left, mr Luce said Karen,when you finish your lunch, go
(07:33):
to the office.
They need to see you.
So I jumped up right away andfinished my sandwich and he said
no, finish your ice creamsandwich, which I didn't want.
But I gulped it down and thenwent to the office and they said
you know your family wants youat home.
And I said okay, and the womanwho was driving me was very,
(07:56):
very nervous and made small talk.
And then I got home and mygrandmother was there and my
grandmother was coming down thesteps and she should have been
in Macy's book department whereshe works.
But yet she was there and shesaid Mom, I had a nervous
(08:16):
breakdown, but you can see herwhen she gets better.
And I thought I was.
That made me feel like okay atthat moment, because you know, I
heard other women had nervousbreakdowns.
I thought maybe it's somethingthat just happens to people, you
know.
(08:37):
But then two days later myfather stood before me.
I was on the sofa watchingtelevision.
He just stood in front of me.
He said Mommy died and I jumpedup and I beat, pounding my fist
against his chest and you know,he then gave me a pill.
(08:59):
He said the doctor said to takethis with Coca-Cola.
So I did and it instantlyknocked me out.
So that's how people deal withgrief at that time.
But I later learned that mymother had committed suicide,
(09:20):
that she dove out of the secondfloor window.
She opened the window, secondfloor, and walked down to like
it was the roof of the firstfloor and I guess was desperate
and just dove and hit her head.
She was a very good diver, so Iimagine she did a dive and hit
(09:42):
her head and it broke her neckand she was taken to the
hospital and two days later shedied.
So I, you know my whole.
It created such a hole in myheart you know, and people just
(10:02):
didn't talk about it then and Ididn't talk about it then and I
didn't either.
So none of my friends saidanything At school.
Nobody said anything.
That's just how people dealtwith things then.
But I would cry myself to sleepeach night and one of my
father's friends had given me astuffed toy cat that had a
(10:24):
rubbery face and I called himMike Cat and I would hug him and
cry and within a few shortweeks his smiley face was just
washed away with my tears.
So that's how I dealt with that.
Nobody said, gee, you mightwant to see a counselor.
It was none of that.
(10:45):
I'm so glad there's such goodattention to suicide these days
and how it affects families.
But back then it didn't.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
We just didn't talk about that stuff back then.
I mean it just yeah, it was adifferent time and things were
kind of like swept under the rug.
We just kind of just kept goingas if tragedy did not happen.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Nothing happened, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, it was really strange.
Can I ask how your relationshipwith that memory has changed
over time, for who you becametoday, for who you became today?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah well, I used to.
When I speak, I talk aboutgiving a sandwich to Millie out
in the front of.
Grand Central Station.
That's how it began, but if Ilook back, it really began when
my mother died, because it wassuch a loss and created such
pain, made a hole in my heartNow.
I knew what pain was.
(11:43):
I knew what depression was.
I knew what depression was, andthe automatic response for me
was I didn't want anyone else tosuffer, and so I wanted to
become a nurse.
And I was a candy stripe.
My stepmother, who had been anurse, persuaded my father not
to send me to nursing school.
She said you know what she wasa, a nurse, and I would never
(12:06):
make a good nurse.
So I had a pivot and I studiedbusiness administration, which
led me on a corporate path, butI still had that something in me
that wanted to make adifference and it began to
manifest in other ways and itbegan to manifest in other ways.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, I strongly believe that we can take our
pain and help others with it.
But you had a prayer where youprayed for your mommy and you
prayed for her to be happy andyou wanted to make a difference
(12:47):
and you wanted to make sense ofit.
It felt like in your prayer andI was just so taken back by
that because my dad passed awaywhen I was a kid Very different
circumstances, but I becamehardened by it and you seem to
(13:09):
have really grasped on to thathole in your heart and wanting
to make a difference in helpingothers and I just find that so
beautiful that that's what youdid.
You became one with your pain.
Can you talk more about howimportant that is, to
(13:30):
acknowledge your pain?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
and it's really what propelled me forward.
I mean, when my mother died andthat hurt was turned into
passion, wanting to make adifference, I identified with
others.
Whether it was somebody who washomeless, or a student in class
who was upset and crying, I wasthere.
(13:53):
Or the boy across the streetwho was dying of cancer, I
played tennis with him.
I prayed in my house, in myliving room.
I can remember I would danceand say a prayer, or I would go
out into the woods and pray.
Wrenching pain was sounbearable that I could only
pray.
God bless Mommy and keep hersafe and may she be happy.
(14:16):
Oh please, dear God, help me tolove everyone.
Oh God, please help me makesense of all of this.
Yeah, that was my child lifeprayer one.
Oh God, please help me makesense of all of this.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, that was my child life later.
Yeah, I pictured you in thatmoment and you know, as a child
saying that prayer.
It's very beautiful and it saysa lot about who you are.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It didn't hurt me at all that I'm aware of because I
just wanted to reach out topeople and make a difference.
Just wanted to reach out topeople and make a difference.
But you know, maybe I didn't.
In some ways, maybe I wasafraid of getting close to
people you know, because I hadthat loss.
(15:06):
But that didn't stop me fromreaching out to people who were
suffering, you know, and helpingthem.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, there is a difference, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, exactly Because you're afraid, like if you're
in a relationship, you're afraidthat you may lose him.
You know because you've alreadyexperienced loss.
Right, but in terms of helpingpeople, that was my propeller.
You know, the death of my mother, which I, you know, hurt, and I
(15:39):
didn't want anyone else to hurt.
So that drove me to volunteerat Greystone State Hospital in
New Jersey Psychiatric patients,and to do different things.
And then, as you say, I thengot a job for the Warner Lambert
Company.
I was charged with developingsweepstakes and couponing events
(16:03):
for products like Chick Razorsand Listerine Mouth, and while I
enjoyed that, it wascompetitive, it was creative.
You know, I still yearn for somuch more.
And then one day, in November1981, I was about to pass a
homeless woman who I had seenbefore.
(16:24):
She sat on a crate.
She always looked down and sad.
She was in her 70s and onimpulse I ran across the street
into a deli and got her a hamand cheese sandwich and an
orange juice.
And when I came back and handedit to her she said thank you,
(16:44):
god bless you.
I haven't eaten since yesterday.
And she took my hand and herupset.
At that point I felt like Icrossed an invisible line as I
held her hand Because it wastold, don't go near one of those
people.
But that led me to.
Then I told my two sons aboutMillie and he said let's go into
(17:07):
New York find more people likeMillie's.
So we did and we ended up inGrand Central Station and
essentially anybody sitting on abench.
They were waiting for their bus.
They were simply homeless andthat's where they stayed and I
got to know their stories ofabandonment.
(17:28):
Some had mental illness, somesubstance abuse, but I got to
know them by name and I got toknow their stories.
Know them by name and I got toknow their stories.
We would go in every otherSunday afternoon with 75
sandwiches.
Really, the sandwiches were avehicle to say I cared, because
(17:49):
if I didn't have the sandwich,how would I say I cared?
I guess I could say how are youand everything, but it was
really, you know, it was a wayof saying I cared, decided.
I wanted to invite my friendsfrom Port Authority back to my
house for Thanksgiving dinner.
(18:11):
Now, the thing about that isI'm not a very good cook and
I've never even cooked aThanksgiving dinner.
But that didn't stop me andBill Harrison, my neighbor, who
was a bond trader on Wall Street, made the turkey, and other
neighbors made other things.
(18:32):
So we got two cars and wepicked our friends up from Port
Authority bus terminal at thebus stop in Summit and it kind
of wrecked.
We're probably homeless, yeah,but I can't even see that
clearly.
I see them as people, butanyhow, I don't know what it
(18:56):
looked like to my neighbors.
I did hear a few comments, butwe just had a wonderful day and
everybody sat around the tableand reminisced about
Thanksgiving's past.
You know, they walked around myhouse and told me how I could
fix certain things, like theshelf in the kitchen was sagging
(19:19):
a little bit and they took ascrewdriver and a screw and
fixed it.
I don't know, it was just youdon't put on airs like that.
It was just so heartfelt.
It meant a lot to me and mykids and my neighbors and to our
friends from Port Islet,freddie.
And then from there I wonderedwhat was happening in my own
(19:41):
county of Union and I beganvolunteering at a soup kitchen
and a shelter and social serviceagencies and that's where I met
families who were homeless andliving in their cars.
But many were actually workingbut couldn't afford housing.
(20:04):
And these were kids too.
You know mothers, fathers andkids sleeping in their cars.
And I thought, is the religiouscommunity?
Know, in Summit you don't seehomeless people.
I've later learned there areand we've helped them.
I'm on a task force but anyhow,I thought, does the religious
(20:29):
community know?
So I planned a conference onfamily homelessness and Bob
Hayes, the founder of theNational Coalition for the
Homeless, spoke.
He was a Wall Street attorneyand mounted a class action suit
right in the streets of New Yorkwhen he established a right to
shelter.
(20:50):
But after the conference and Isaid very little I had a
minister, a rabbi and a priestfacilitate the conference, in
which 200 people attended.
The only thing I said at theend of the conference if we stay
together and work together,people like Wendy will have a
home.
Wendy was a woman who spoke,who was homeless with her
(21:15):
daughter, and she lived in asuburban community and she spoke
to us.
And then after that, I didn'twant it just to be such a nice
conference where people wouldsay, well, somebody should do
something about this.
So I asked how many of youwould be willing to come back to
(21:38):
another meeting and talk abouthow we might establish shelter
in Union County and other meansof support for families
experiencing homelessness, andalmost every hand went out.
Several weeks later I had themeeting at Christ Church in
(21:58):
Sumba with a bunch of folks.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
You know your life changed in a second and a lot of
the people that you have metthrough the years have had the
exact same thing happen to themin different stories and that
their lives were changed in onemoment.
And I was wondering if thatfragile moment is where you meet
(22:26):
the people that you have helpedthroughout the years.
Yes, I identify with them.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And that takes me right back to that fragile
moment.
And even though their situationis different than mine, they're
still hurting, and so Iidentified with that and I want
to help in whatever way I can,and that's why I began, you know
, giving sandwiches, but thenthat led to so much more, to the
(22:53):
conference and then ultimatelycreating a program for families
with children.
And then, as you say, that ledto a national organization with
close to 200 affiliatesproviding shelter, meals,
prevention services,transitional housing and so much
(23:15):
more, Even programs for pets.
Some of our affiliates allowedoh okay, yeah, that so much more
.
Even programs for pets Some ofour affiliates allow.
Oh okay, yeah, that started inPhoenix.
We're there because you knowthey face this situation of
should we continue to live inour cars, so Daisy will continue
to be part of our family, orshould we give Daisy up and take
(23:39):
shelter?
So you know, our affiliate inPhoenix saw that as a problem
and they created a pet programand then other affiliates
replicated.
They say there's about a dozenthat have some sort of pet
program.
So a lot of innovations comeout of this.
People want to make adifference and they bring their
(24:03):
creativity.
I guess my moment was giving thesandwich to Millie, but when I
started the Interfaith HouseVitality Network, which was
later called Family Promise, itallowed people to get involved
because the program ended upbeing 12 congregations who
worked together on a weeklyrotational basis to provide
(24:26):
shelter, meals and otherassistance.
So volunteers get involved.
They bring their own childrento volunteer, they prepare meals
, they talk, they interact withfamilies and that's really, you
know, the secret sauce of familypromise.
Some have changed now and morehave a static site, but they do
(24:51):
their best to engage volunteers.
That happened when COVID struck.
It changed a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, it changed a lot of things.
You know, I've always believedthat every moment in our lives
is a stepping stone and thatnothing is wasted.
When you started riding thattrain after your mom had passed
away and you started visitingyour grandma in New York City
when she worked at Macy's, youknow, I believed that you were
(25:24):
supposed to be there.
That experience opened youreyes.
You went, like we said earlier,from all that affluence to New
York City, where everything wasso different.
You know, new York has alwaysheld a special place in my heart
too.
I grew up in a place that waswith no diversity none and I've
(25:57):
always been drawn to cities likeNew York because it's so rich
in culture and humanity and Iwant my kids to see the beauty
in all kinds of people andbackgrounds.
And just last summer, when myson was eight, we walked past a
man who was homeless outside ofSACS and my son said he walks up
(26:18):
to everybody who is homelessand he makes sure that he has a
conversation with them.
And yeah, and he said I'm goingto get you something to eat.
And he did that all by himself,so I was so proud of him.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
How beautiful.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, every time that we go back to New York we look
for him.
But I thought about your Gaga.
You know your grandma when youwanted to feed a homeless man in
New York when you were young,your grandma said no.
Where your grandma said no.
So what stigmas do you see thatkeep people from getting that
(27:02):
sandwich or giving it to them ormaybe starting a conversation
with them?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Your son actually has the open heart of a child that
hasn't been taught to think thisway or that way.
He just reacts with his heart.
But the stigma for many peopleis they're afraid.
They don't know if they want todo something, they're not sure
what to do.
But for many people it's thestigma of, oh, you're mentally
(27:30):
ill or they're alcoholics orit's unsafe to go near them.
So there's a big stigma therefor involving people.
I did end up having a number ofmy neighbors come in and join me
when I would go in on Sunday tobring the sandwiches and that
was really wonderful.
And some got even more involved, like this one man, bob Nielsen
(27:55):
.
He had John, who was analcoholic and homeless in Port
Authority, back to his house fora shower and just stay
overnight and he ultimately gotJohn into a veteran's home in
Long Island, which was very nice.
But Bob is certainly anexception.
(28:18):
Most people are afraid mentallyill or substance abuse.
But I started to say in Summitthere were 25 people who were
homeless in Summit, new Jersey,where I live, on the streets and
everything.
So we formed a task force onhomelessness and we were able to
(28:43):
help 20 of the 25 findapartments and it's
life-changing, just absolutelylife-changing, you know, once
they have their own place andtheir dignity back.
But the other five haveproblems like mental illness and
(29:05):
substance abuse.
But we're trying to work withthem.
But I think it's just a stigma.
People are afraid.
But that's one of the reasonstoo.
When I decided I wanted to helpin a bigger way and I
ultimately ended up leaving myjob at Warner Lambert, I focused
on families because they wereat the time the fastest growing
(29:27):
segment of the homelesspopulation, accounting for 35%
of all those who were homeless,and I thought that is something
that really just community coulddo.
And that idea proved to be truebecause they weren't afraid to
come back into their own churchand prepare a meal or stay
overnight or bring their kids tovolunteer.
(29:50):
I remember one woman who camewith her six-year-old daughter
and she said we're going to seethe homeless, we're going to
volunteer and see the homelessat church.
So she went to church and shejust started playing with the
other kids and then she walkedout and they went to the car.
(30:10):
She said Mommy, when are wegoing to see the homeless?
She was expecting she had avision of what the homeless
looked like, but it's just kidsplaying with kids, that's really
beautiful.
So the whole thing grew and, asI saw, it was, you know,
replicable.
And wherever I went I went toOhio or Pennsylvania or the
(30:32):
county People wanted to do this.
The two counties next to mycounty of Union came to me and
said how do we start thisprogram?
I told them how to do it, spokeand ultimately developed some
manuals and it just spread.
And why it spread is there's aneed everywhere for shelter,
(30:57):
support services and care forhomeless families, and I'd say a
good half of them are working.
And there's also the need inthe hearts of people to make a
difference.
Otherwise we wouldn't have180,000 volunteers involved at
any given time.
(31:19):
It makes a difference in thelives of guests, but also
volunteers, some of thesestories of how lives have been
changed.
And you know, even volunteerslike Pace, who worked for San
Diego National Labs as ascientist and they were hosting
(31:40):
a going away party for him andall the people in his department
stood up and gave a perfunctoryspeech, you know.
But then one woman raised herhand shyly, alice, and asked if
she could speak and she saidwhat I remember, mr Pace for is
(32:04):
that I had a flat tire and itwas a cold night and it was
raining and a car drove upbehind me and stopped and got
out and it was Pace and changedthe tire.
She said now I have a wholedifferent view of him because he
(32:27):
, you know, he wasn't just asuit, he was somebody who really
cared and that encouraged Paceto get more involved.
When Family Promise came to hischurch he got involved as
coordinator, was coordinator for10 years and had families back
to his house and at the end ofall this he said to me you know
(32:49):
Family Promise and the guests,yeah, he just said that it
enabled him to have a morecompassionate heart.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
It enabled him to have a more compassionate heart.
One of the most powerfulmessages in your book is when
you reflect on your mother'slife and wonder how it might
have been different if peoplehad simply met her with kindness
, understanding and a space toexpress herself, without
judgment.
I think that that is probably Imean judgment when we so often
(33:28):
talk about what's going on inour lives.
We just want to be met with anunderstanding heart, somebody
that's looking at us togenuinely just listen, without
judgment.
You know, I've always believedthat one of the greatest gifts
that we can give another humanbeing is the freedom to be fully
themselves.
You know, real raw, honest,without that fear of judgment,
and clearly that's the truth.
(33:50):
That family promise and thatyou have lived by, even as a
single mom.
Your purpose never wavered andI love how you had mentioned it,
but you did talk, you did takeyour boys into New York, you let
them experience all that lifecould be with compassion and
(34:11):
courage instead of fear and thatstigma.
So that was so beautiful.
That quote that you shared fromLeo Biscagli is one of my
favorite.
You know, I just love him.
Too often we underestimate thepower of a touch, a smile, a
kind word, a listening ear, thesmallest act of caring, all of
(34:33):
which have the potential to turna life around.
Could you talk about lovingwithout judgment?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
It's not our job to judge.
We're all part of God's familyand you meet people where they
are and you do what you can tohelp.
You love them.
You just don't, you know, judgethem.
Like when I see people who mayhave a mental illness or a
(35:02):
substance abuse problem.
It's a problem in their brain,you know.
If they're mentally ill, sothat's really not them.
You go deeper and they have aspirit and so you just love them
.
You don't judge them.
They have an illness.
If I'm speaking to somebody whohas pancreatic cancer, I don't
(35:26):
judge them.
No more should I judge someonewho has a mental illness which
has to do with their brain orsubstance abuse?
I don't have a judgment.
The only thing I care about is,if somebody's already, I want
to help, and I think a lot ofpeople feel that way.
That's why family problems havegrown so large.
(35:49):
I just don't.
I don't think I judge.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, I mean, that's really what we all want is not
to be judged and to be who weare, without judgment.
I can say with full confidence,anyone who reads your book will
never look at someone who isunhoused the same way.
(36:14):
Again, you shine a light on themany reasons that people can
find themselves in thatsituation from and you mentioned
some but like fire, death,health crisis, job loss, the
loss of eyesight, trauma, mentalillness, substance abuse,
domestic violence, trauma,mental illness, substance abuse,
(36:36):
domestic violence and these arestories, not statistics, some
of which you share beautifullyin your story and I encourage
everybody to read it becausethese are stories that are woven
throughout your book.
I used to be, in one of my lives, a director of a battered
(36:58):
woman's shelter, and the womenand children who came in had
nothing and they were notlooking for handouts.
They just needed a safe placeto breathe, reset and move
forward.
And I also worked at a grouphome for boys who had been
(37:19):
abused and when they age out ofthe system, that's it.
You know, you're 18 and you'reout a lot of times, and I did
have one show up at my doorstepafter he had aged out because he
had no one.
So you know, I just said comeon, and he slept on my couch
until we figured it out justsaid, come on.
(37:43):
And he slept on my couch untilwe figured it out.
I mean, people honestly justfind themselves in that
situation and there's justnothing that you can do, and
they're not looking for anything, you know, and they want to
give back, they want to help andwe're just offering them those
that you know seeds of hope, Iguess you could call them so
that they can get plantedsomewhere and grow.
So thank you for changingpeople's views.
(38:07):
If they read your book, theywill change their view on
homelessness.
Yes, I believe they will,because it takes them from
people who are chronicallyhomeless in New York City to
families and mothers with kidssleeping in their cars but
working, and how lives can bechanged with a little help you
(38:29):
know of the guests that you havehelped along these years, these
38 years but also volunteers,and volunteers are essential, of
course, and it is you say theauthentic interactions between
guests and caring volunteers isthe healing part of the recipe.
(38:53):
I mean, that is the recipe.
Everything is possible.
Recipe Everything is possible.
Every skill is used, fromquilting to hair nails, helping
guests get jobs, writing resumes.
I mean, can you share aboutsome of these ways that people
can get involved, Because Ithink everybody has a skill that
(39:14):
can be used.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah, it's just as you say whatever talent you have
, offer it.
They may not have a programcalled, you know, a nail salon,
but if you offer to do the nailsof guests, that will make a big
difference.
Or photography, as so manyfamilies don't have a portrait
of their family and so onevolunteer took a portrait.
(39:40):
So you know, whatever you know,whatever you feel you can do,
you know to make a difference.
Also, acts of kindness.
I remember there was one womanat a shelter but she Chuck, was
picking her up every morningbecause her car broke down.
(40:02):
This volunteer, chuck, and shewould come out at 5 o'clock in
the morning and Chuck would bestanding there waiting for her.
And then he learned that thiswoman liked lattes.
So this one morning he stoodthere with two cups in his hand,
one for himself and the and thelatte for Judy.
(40:25):
Once you saw that if you saidto Chuck, you're gonna make me
cry.
You know, and she did so, herewas just a latte, but it moved
her so much that somebody notonly takes the time to be there
at 5 o'clock in the morning butwould offer her a latte.
So there's so many small actsof kindness that can make a
(40:46):
difference.
The man across the street in myneighborhood knew that I was
away.
There had been a bad snowstorm.
So when I came back my drivewaywas completely shut, my walkway
and my porch and I opened thedoor and a little note fell out
and he said I hope I didn't messanything up, but I knew you
(41:08):
were away.
So I shuffled your driveway andit was my neighbor across the
street, chris, and I kept thatnote for a long time and I
couldn't bear to throw it awaybecause it just meant so much to
me.
It really did.
I didn't know Chris that well,I mean, I really didn't know him
(41:29):
but the fact that he would dothat really touched me.
You know, it's to the pointwhere I couldn't throw the note
away.
So little things can make aprofound difference, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
One of your volunteers, you know.
The guest had asked to get someclothes.
They needed some clothes andthey were going to take— she
just said, well, you can take meto Kohl's, and they took her to
Macy's, you know.
Oh yeah, that was the hope yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yeah, I mean— the hope to Macy's and know oh yeah,
that was the hope.
Yeah, yeah, the hope to Macy'sand got her 10 new outfits.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
No, it's those simple things that just.
It's so small, but it makes herfeel important.
It makes them feel seen,validated.
You know, joe's story hit me.
After surviving childhood abuse, he became a Family Promise
(42:24):
volunteer and said that the painthat we receive is not a life
sentence.
It can become a calling.
Then there's and I want to sayhis name, right, but Yusof the
refugee from Uganda.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Oh yeah, yes, he was so touched by everybody serving
him and smiling.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
I'll tell you what.
When the team of people fromFamily Promise served him food
from his home country, it mademe know that you know, they're
not statistics, these are humanbeings.
He was seen and loved for rightwhere he was.
That is just so beautiful.
(43:08):
And then Sadie I guess tooneeded help.
She was held hostage by anabusive Abusive, yeah, yeah and
lost her housing because of whathe did.
You know nothing that she did.
So what I loved was she foundagency with you, she said.
(43:42):
Rather than talking about whatwas wrong, the people at Family
Promise helped me create a planfor overcoming my circumstances.
They never made me feel like mysituation was too big for me to
overcome.
She said that she trusted thepath that had helped thousands
before her.
I mean, karen, what you did hascreated a place where people
walk through the doors to a newlife.
So how did you cultivate thatkind of culture?
(44:06):
Because it was so important andyou touched on it a little bit,
but it was important for you tohave all faiths involved.
Can you talk about theintentional choices that you
made at the beginning?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
The beginning I knew I wanted to focus on families
and all religions to getinvolved and I wanted the
program to be one of hospitality.
In fact the first name wasInterfaith Hospitality Network.
We later changed our namebecause we had grown into so
(44:43):
much more in other programs.
But hospitality and formingwith the hope that relationships
would be formed, you know,really happened with volunteers
coming back and helping familiessign housing, even renting an
(45:03):
apartment for a family you knowthat apartment that they owned
for jobs.
Some people employed guests intheir companies.
So it was just a culture ofcaring.
But I can't take credit forthat.
I mean, I cared but I didn'tplant the caring in the heart of
(45:26):
our volunteers.
They're naturally caring andlooking for a way to help have
needs all over this country.
You know, for every four unitsof federal housing, only one
family actually receives it,even though they are eligible.
(45:48):
That's due to the lack offunding.
So you know there's a great,great crisis there and some of
our volunteers have gotteninvolved in public policy
advocacy, speaking to theirlegislators and doing things
locally.
Right now, at this time, Idon't see big changes and I see
(46:10):
changes in social programs, butnot in a good way.
So we're going to see more andmore people who are experiencing
homelessness and it's importantto reach out, to call your
local shelter, to visit withthem, to see if you can
volunteer, or your local soupkitchen, or just, you know, give
(46:32):
a sandwich to a man who's lyingon cardboard on the subway
grate, like your son.
Did you know?
If your son can do that, we allcan do it.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah, yeah, you did share in your book that you
wanted to understandhomelessness and why it existed
in the wealthiest country onearth like it does, and it is
getting worse.
I mean, after all these yearsof walking alongside individuals
with family and maybe youalready answered this, I'm not
(47:07):
sure but I mean, have youdiscovered the answer?
Why?
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Because you need government to create
partnerships with the nonprofitsector.
Nonprofits are doing a lot.
The more nonprofits are beingcreated all the time, but they
alone cannot meet the need.
You need policies like to givepeople food stamps and we have
(47:32):
some benefits or healthcare, butpeople who are poor don't have
these supports and all it takesis a loss of a job, your hours
cut at work or a divorce or anillness and you become homeless
and there's not the safety net.
(47:53):
If you're going to see bigchanges the government has to
provide a safety net.
It's beyond nonprofits tohandle that and I don't know,
maybe that will happen.
I'm afraid it's going to be sobad.
We're going to see so manypeople experiencing homelessness
on the streets.
(48:13):
Maybe something good that willcome from all these cuts is they
see more people in need andmaybe maybe something will
change.
But I don't know.
I think I'm being very naiveand wishful thinking about that.
I think I'm being very naiveand exercising, uh, wishful
(48:33):
thinking well, I mean, there'snothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
but the facts in your book really speak loud.
One in 30 children experiencehomelessness every year.
Yes, exactly 1.2 millionstudents in pre-K through 12th
grade were recorded as homelessin just the 21-22 school year.
(48:57):
Most renting families now spendover half their income on
housing.
I mean you can't survive onthat.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Yeah, the issue is not homelessness.
That's just a symptom.
The real issue is poverty andpeople can't live on what they
earn.
Or the people that can't workfor some reason can't live on
the benefits that are offered.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah, I mean you do mention how we need people to
work in nursing homes, but yetthey don't aren't paid enough.
And how we need people at fastfood, but you know they aren't
paid enough.
The poverty line in 2023 for afamily of four was just $30,000.
Right, and one in four eligiblehouseholds actually receive
(49:52):
federal housing assistance.
Simply because the fundingisn't there.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I mean, that's what can you do about it?
One of the things we can doabout it is fully fund the
housing programs, federalhousing assistance, rather than
just one in four.
Make it four out of four.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
And so many are uninsured.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
So there's a quote from Mother Teresa in your book
that I absolutely love.
Teresa in your book that Iabsolutely love, she said I
alone cannot change the world,but I can cast a stone across
the waters to create manyripples.
And as soon as I read that, Ijust said out loud amen.
(50:54):
And yet here we are in therichest country in the world,
like we just said, stillgrappling with the heartbreaking
of living.
You know, if we truly want tobuild a more equitable and
inclusive America whereopportunity isn't limited by a
(51:16):
zip code or a circumstance, youknow it needs a huge systemic
change.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
The federal minimum wage right now is $7.25 per hour
and that hasn't been changedsince 2009.
The states can have their ownminimum wage and in New Jersey I
think it's $15 an hour andthere's a campaign to increase
(51:49):
that to $18 an hour.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
So all those things?
Speaker 2 (51:53):
can help.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Right, right, it's such a deep problem, I mean,
that would only be a surface.
You're no longer the CEO there.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
No, I retired.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Yeah, who is the CEO now?
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Cheryl Shook, and she's just doing an amazing job.
After I retired, klaas Ehlers,who I worked with for 20 years,
became the CEO and then he leftand so we hired Cheryl Shuck.
She's just amazing.
She ran our Grand Rapidsaffiliate and she created many
(52:34):
units of affordable housing andother innovative programs.
So she's just the right personand has done wonderful things to
add prevention, intervention,sheltering, transitional housing
to what they do to helpfamilies achieve sustainable
(52:54):
independence.
So, yeah, I retired.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
How many states does Family Promise have?
How many?
We're in 44 states 44.
Wow, you're in my state.
You, in the back of your book,have all your affiliates listed.
You have ways that people canget involved in Call People,
(53:19):
which I think is wonderful.
I have to say that the endingof your book I never saw coming.
I'm so sorry that after youretired that you ended up having
an accident, so I just wantedto see how you were doing.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Oh, I'm doing much better now, but I am In 2019,
February 12th, I was sitting bythe pool of.
I had a small condo in MiamiBeach.
I was sitting by the pool and Iwas about to have a cryotherapy
(54:01):
appointment.
Do you know what that is?
I do, yeah.
So I had done that about 30times.
I have some water.
I'd done that about 30 times,so I went to a place where I
would meet the attendant andthey said that she had only been
there four weeks, but she wasthoroughly trained and I knew
(54:24):
the trainer and I had a lot ofrespect for her.
So I thought well, you knowthat's all right, but
unfortunately, when I got inthere, she made the temperature
so, so, so cold that I keptsaying I don't remember this,
but I'm cold, I'm cold.
And I fell out, um, like apopsicle, and hit my head
(54:47):
because she opened the door butshe stood behind the door so she
couldn't help me out.
When I hit my head, um, Ididn't have any feeling from
that neck down.
I didn't have any feeling fromthat neck down and I called my
two sons and they came downimmediately.
Then I had surgery to back myneck.
I have a spinal cord injury,that is not got complete
(55:11):
injuries and incomplete injury,which is a good thing to have
because it means your spinalcord is not severed, it's just
bruised.
So I made a lot of progress.
I can now walk with aspecialized walker and the help
of my PT people.
(55:32):
I go into New York on Thursdaysand I walk with something
called WanderCraft and I walkwith something called
WanderCraft.
I have like a robot thingthat's attached to me and the
robot and I walk and you know, Ijust I can lift my legs and the
robot helps too, and so that'sinteresting and it's just I'm
(55:57):
trying everything.
I have something called theLocal Mat at Kessler Institute
where I go for therapy and I'min a harness but I'm walking on
a treadmill.
So even right now, as I'mtalking to you, I'm moving my
legs.
I made a lot of progress thereand I'm an artist and
(56:18):
unfortunately my right arm andhand have very little movement.
I really can't use my righthand, but I can use my left hand
.
So I have a gadget where I canput the paintbrush in this
gadget and I can paint, not likeI painted before, but I always
(56:39):
painted Well, if you can see thepictures behind me.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
You did those.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, I did those.
Yeah, Wow, the big one I didduring my son's nap time.
They were two and four, but Iwas a fairly good painter.
But now I'm able to paint withmy left hand with this gadget
and the paintbrush, and it's alittle more impressionistic than
(57:06):
I've done before, just becauseI don't have the control of my
hand, but I love doing it, youknow, and I found out that I
could do it.
So I do that when I can, butI'm busy.
I have quite a few speakingengagements, either on podcasts
or at churches or synagogues ornonprofits, so I enjoy that.
(57:29):
So I feel like I'm extendingthe message.
My goal is to inspire people towant to make a difference in
the lives of others people towant to make a difference in the
lives of others.
So I did Family Promise andthat's beautiful and that's well
on its way to even becomingbigger and even better, and then
the book is going very well andpeople are reading it, and then
(57:54):
my speaking engagements werehopefully, I inspire people to
make a difference.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Well, you inspired me .
I want to end with this quotefrom your book Meant for More
Following your Heart and Findingyour Purpose.
The meaning of life is to findyour gift.
The purpose of life is to giveit away.
Pablo Picasso and your book.
That is your book.
That's your purpose, that'syour mission.
(58:20):
You live that quote.
Where can people get a hold ofFamily Promise or how can they
volunteer?
Speaker 2 (58:36):
How can they get your book?
They can go on the FamilyPromise website,
familypromiseorg, or they canget my book at Barnes, Noble,
Amazon or bookshopcom and alsokarenolsonauthorcom, and I'll
hold up my book.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
Yeah, there it is.
It's a book with a message anda movement and healing
throughout the entire thing,with dignity and humanity and
you know, a purpose of puttingpeople on the pages so people
can read it and learn a lot moreabout what truly homelessness
(59:14):
is.
So it is just so touching.
Thank you so much for writingit and for everything that
you're doing, what you've done,and I just want to say to our
listeners thank you so much forlistening today and, as usual,
there is purpose in the pain andthere is hope in the journey
(59:38):
and we will see you next time.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne, karen.
I am so moved to have you here,not just because of your book
Meant for More, following yourHeart and Finding your Passion,
but the movement that you havebuilt, the compassion that you
live by, and the way that youturn personal pain into a
(00:30):
nationwide purpose.
Your philosophy of meetingpeople exactly where they are is
something that I absolutelylove.
You didn't just dream of change.
You created it, one act ofkindness at a time.
It all began with a simple hamand cheese sandwich in New York
(00:53):
City.
That just made me smile.
A moment of connection with awoman named Millie who was
experiencing homelessness.
That moment sparked somethingfar greater than you could have
ever imagined.
It became the beginning ofFamily Promise, a national
organization that you createdwith one act of kindness and now
(01:17):
, 38 years later, continues tooffer individuals and families
with children the dignity ofshelter, stability and hope.
Today, thanks to your vision,family Promise is powered by
over 200,000 volunteersnationwide and serves more than
(01:38):
180,000 men, women and childreneach year.
You have helped more than amillion people.
That is more than a mission.
It is a national movement.
Now, this is impressive If youconverted volunteers into
(02:00):
employees.
As you say in the book.
You, behind Ford and in frontof Disney and Costco, family
Promise has kept its promise andbecame the nation's leader in
helping people who are unhoused.
You have been able to provideshelter, transitional housing,
(02:22):
affordable housing and a host ofother services and programs for
families that we will talkabout today.
You also have a success rate ofI think it was like over
80-some percent 81% that'samazing.
You personally were invited tothe White House in 1992 and
(02:42):
received the Annual Points ofLight Award for your use of
volunteers to help solve asocial problem, and what I love
most is that in your entirestory, actually.
But you are proof that it isn'tjust about homelessness or
volunteering.
It's about healing, and one ofthe messages that threads
(03:03):
throughout your entire book isthat when we help others, we
don't just lift them, but wealso are helping ourselves, and
I think that that's reallyimportant.
You are a great example ofturning pain into purpose.
Thank you so much for beinghere.
It is an honor to have you here.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
Well, thank you, anne , it's my pleasure to be here.
Speaker 1 (03:27):
I want to take a moment to talk about your
childhood and then we'll leadinto your work with Family
Promise.
But when I first read about thepain and the loss that you
experienced as a child, I washeartbroken.
When I read the words on thepage, I am so sorry for what you
(03:49):
went through.
I truly didn't expect it,because on the outside your
family looked picture perfect.
You know you lived in anaffluent community, went to
church, had a 33-foot cabincruiser, a successful father who
was an architect and had a deepbond with your mom.
(04:12):
You know you played outside,did all the things that you know
I did as a kid.
You know swam I was a swimmer,caught frogs.
Speaker 2 (04:21):
you know we lived outside back then, right Before
the internet, right, yeah, yeah,we played all the time when we
went out, played on the streetin somebody's yard, yep yep, but
you are living proof that wenever truly know what someone is
going through, is going through.
Speaker 1 (04:48):
Your story shifted from that picture perfect to a
painful moment in just onesecond.
A clear line, when innocencewas lost and time was divided.
You wrote that childhood shapesus.
How did it shape you?
Would you be willing to sharewhat happened?
Would you be willing to sharewhat happened?
Speaker 2 (05:05):
Yes, I will.
As I mentioned, I was veryclose to my mother, not so close
to my father.
He was an alcoholic, but he didstop drinking when he was 40
and he found AA.
But I was even closer to mymother, probably because we
(05:27):
could never rely on my father,you know, because of his
drinking.
But I was extremely close to mymother and she was close to me
and all the neighborhood kids,everybody loved my mother.
She was a lot of fun to be withand we would load up in her
Chevrolet and go to the beachevery day during the summer, and
she was right there, it wasvery good.
Or we would go out in our boat,load up in her Chevrolet, and
(05:48):
go to the beach every day duringthe summer, and she was right
there, it was very good.
Or we would go out in our boatand learn to water ski.
But one day I left for schooland I hugged my mother.
Goodbye.
That's after I had breakfastwith her.
She drank coffee, I said, atthe table, and had toast and
(06:09):
juice, and then she said goodbyeto me and hugged me and I
usually when she stays at thewindow and waves, but this time
she continued to say the window.
So I turned around as I crossedthe street.
She was still waving, so Iwaved.
(06:30):
I walked a few steps into theneighbor's yard, turned around
and she was still waving, so Iwaved.
I cut across the yard, about toclimb over the stone wall, and
I thought I saw her still waving.
So that was very unusualbehavior, but I didn't think
anything of it.
And then I got the bus to school.
(06:50):
And when I got the bus toschool I had classes.
And then lunch came and I wentto my homeroom because we had
lunch in our homerooms and awoman came in.
I finished my sandwich, had anice cream sandwich.
(07:11):
Woman came in from the officeand looked at Mr Luce that was a
homeroom teacher and thenlooked at me and they whispered.
And then Mr Luce said when,after the secretary from the
office left, mr Luce said Karen,when you finish your lunch, go
(07:33):
to the office.
They need to see you.
So I jumped up right away andfinished my sandwich and he said
no, finish your ice creamsandwich, which I didn't want.
But I gulped it down and thenwent to the office and they said
you know your family wants youat home.
And I said okay, and the womanwho was driving me was very,
(07:56):
very nervous and made small talk.
And then I got home and mygrandmother was there and my
grandmother was coming down thesteps and she should have been
in Macy's book department whereshe works.
But yet she was there and shesaid Mom, I had a nervous
(08:16):
breakdown, but you can see herwhen she gets better.
And I thought I was.
That made me feel like okay atthat moment, because you know, I
heard other women had nervousbreakdowns.
I thought maybe it's somethingthat just happens to people, you
know.
(08:37):
But then two days later myfather stood before me.
I was on the sofa watchingtelevision.
He just stood in front of me.
He said Mommy died and I jumpedup and I beat, pounding my fist
against his chest and you know,he then gave me a pill.
(08:59):
He said the doctor said to takethis with Coca-Cola.
So I did and it instantlyknocked me out.
So that's how people deal withgrief at that time.
But I later learned that mymother had committed suicide,
(09:20):
that she dove out of the secondfloor window.
She opened the window, secondfloor, and walked down to like
it was the roof of the firstfloor and I guess was desperate
and just dove and hit her head.
She was a very good diver, so Iimagine she did a dive and hit
(09:42):
her head and it broke her neckand she was taken to the
hospital and two days later shedied.
So I, you know my whole.
It created such a hole in myheart you know, and people just
(10:02):
didn't talk about it then and Ididn't talk about it then and I
didn't either.
So none of my friends saidanything At school.
Nobody said anything.
That's just how people dealtwith things then.
But I would cry myself to sleepeach night and one of my
father's friends had given me astuffed toy cat that had a
(10:24):
rubbery face and I called himMike Cat and I would hug him and
cry and within a few shortweeks his smiley face was just
washed away with my tears.
So that's how I dealt with that.
Nobody said, gee, you mightwant to see a counselor.
It was none of that.
(10:45):
I'm so glad there's such goodattention to suicide these days
and how it affects families.
But back then it didn't.
Speaker 1 (10:55):
We just didn't talk about that stuff back then.
I mean it just yeah, it was adifferent time and things were
kind of like swept under the rug.
We just kind of just kept goingas if tragedy did not happen.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
Nothing happened, yeah.
Speaker 1 (11:12):
Yeah, it was really strange.
Can I ask how your relationshipwith that memory has changed
over time, for who you becametoday, for who you became today?
Speaker 2 (11:23):
Yeah well, I used to.
When I speak, I talk aboutgiving a sandwich to Millie out
in the front of.
Grand Central Station.
That's how it began, but if Ilook back, it really began when
my mother died, because it wassuch a loss and created such
pain, made a hole in my heartNow.
I knew what pain was.
(11:43):
I knew what depression was.
I knew what depression was, andthe automatic response for me
was I didn't want anyone else tosuffer, and so I wanted to
become a nurse.
And I was a candy stripe.
My stepmother, who had been anurse, persuaded my father not
to send me to nursing school.
She said you know what she wasa, a nurse, and I would never
(12:06):
make a good nurse.
So I had a pivot and I studiedbusiness administration, which
led me on a corporate path, butI still had that something in me
that wanted to make adifference and it began to
manifest in other ways and itbegan to manifest in other ways.
Speaker 1 (12:26):
Yeah, I strongly believe that we can take our
pain and help others with it.
But you had a prayer where youprayed for your mommy and you
prayed for her to be happy andyou wanted to make a difference
(12:47):
and you wanted to make sense ofit.
It felt like in your prayer andI was just so taken back by
that because my dad passed awaywhen I was a kid Very different
circumstances, but I becamehardened by it and you seem to
(13:09):
have really grasped on to thathole in your heart and wanting
to make a difference in helpingothers and I just find that so
beautiful that that's what youdid.
You became one with your pain.
Can you talk more about howimportant that is, to
(13:30):
acknowledge your pain?
Speaker 2 (13:31):
and it's really what propelled me forward.
I mean, when my mother died andthat hurt was turned into
passion, wanting to make adifference, I identified with
others.
Whether it was somebody who washomeless, or a student in class
who was upset and crying, I wasthere.
(13:53):
Or the boy across the streetwho was dying of cancer, I
played tennis with him.
I prayed in my house, in myliving room.
I can remember I would danceand say a prayer, or I would go
out into the woods and pray.
Wrenching pain was sounbearable that I could only
pray.
God bless Mommy and keep hersafe and may she be happy.
(14:16):
Oh please, dear God, help me tolove everyone.
Oh God, please help me makesense of all of this.
Yeah, that was my child lifeprayer one.
Oh God, please help me makesense of all of this.
Speaker 1 (14:27):
Yeah, that was my child life later.
Yeah, I pictured you in thatmoment and you know, as a child
saying that prayer.
It's very beautiful and it saysa lot about who you are.
Speaker 2 (14:46):
It didn't hurt me at all that I'm aware of because I
just wanted to reach out topeople and make a difference.
Just wanted to reach out topeople and make a difference.
But you know, maybe I didn't.
In some ways, maybe I wasafraid of getting close to
people you know, because I hadthat loss.
(15:06):
But that didn't stop me fromreaching out to people who were
suffering, you know, and helpingthem.
Speaker 1 (15:15):
Yeah, there is a difference, for sure.
Speaker 2 (15:17):
Yeah, exactly Because you're afraid, like if you're
in a relationship, you're afraidthat you may lose him.
You know because you've alreadyexperienced loss.
Right, but in terms of helpingpeople, that was my propeller.
You know, the death of my mother, which I, you know, hurt, and I
(15:39):
didn't want anyone else to hurt.
So that drove me to volunteerat Greystone State Hospital in
New Jersey Psychiatric patients,and to do different things.
And then, as you say, I thengot a job for the Warner Lambert
Company.
I was charged with developingsweepstakes and couponing events
(16:03):
for products like Chick Razorsand Listerine Mouth, and while I
enjoyed that, it wascompetitive, it was creative.
You know, I still yearn for somuch more.
And then one day, in November1981, I was about to pass a
homeless woman who I had seenbefore.
(16:24):
She sat on a crate.
She always looked down and sad.
She was in her 70s and onimpulse I ran across the street
into a deli and got her a hamand cheese sandwich and an
orange juice.
And when I came back and handedit to her she said thank you,
(16:44):
god bless you.
I haven't eaten since yesterday.
And she took my hand and herupset.
At that point I felt like Icrossed an invisible line as I
held her hand Because it wastold, don't go near one of those
people.
But that led me to.
Then I told my two sons aboutMillie and he said let's go into
(17:07):
New York find more people likeMillie's.
So we did and we ended up inGrand Central Station and
essentially anybody sitting on abench.
They were waiting for their bus.
They were simply homeless andthat's where they stayed and I
got to know their stories ofabandonment.
(17:28):
Some had mental illness, somesubstance abuse, but I got to
know them by name and I got toknow their stories.
Know them by name and I got toknow their stories.
We would go in every otherSunday afternoon with 75
sandwiches.
Really, the sandwiches were avehicle to say I cared, because
(17:49):
if I didn't have the sandwich,how would I say I cared?
I guess I could say how are youand everything, but it was
really, you know, it was a wayof saying I cared, decided.
I wanted to invite my friendsfrom Port Authority back to my
house for Thanksgiving dinner.
(18:11):
Now, the thing about that isI'm not a very good cook and
I've never even cooked aThanksgiving dinner.
But that didn't stop me andBill Harrison, my neighbor, who
was a bond trader on Wall Street, made the turkey, and other
neighbors made other things.
(18:32):
So we got two cars and wepicked our friends up from Port
Authority bus terminal at thebus stop in Summit and it kind
of wrecked.
We're probably homeless, yeah,but I can't even see that
clearly.
I see them as people, butanyhow, I don't know what it
(18:56):
looked like to my neighbors.
I did hear a few comments, butwe just had a wonderful day and
everybody sat around the tableand reminisced about
Thanksgiving's past.
You know, they walked around myhouse and told me how I could
fix certain things, like theshelf in the kitchen was sagging
(19:19):
a little bit and they took ascrewdriver and a screw and
fixed it.
I don't know, it was just youdon't put on airs like that.
It was just so heartfelt.
It meant a lot to me and mykids and my neighbors and to our
friends from Port Islet,freddie.
And then from there I wonderedwhat was happening in my own
(19:41):
county of Union and I beganvolunteering at a soup kitchen
and a shelter and social serviceagencies and that's where I met
families who were homeless andliving in their cars.
But many were actually workingbut couldn't afford housing.
(20:04):
And these were kids too.
You know mothers, fathers andkids sleeping in their cars.
And I thought, is the religiouscommunity?
Know, in Summit you don't seehomeless people.
I've later learned there areand we've helped them.
I'm on a task force but anyhow,I thought, does the religious
(20:29):
community know?
So I planned a conference onfamily homelessness and Bob
Hayes, the founder of theNational Coalition for the
Homeless, spoke.
He was a Wall Street attorneyand mounted a class action suit
right in the streets of New Yorkwhen he established a right to
shelter.
(20:50):
But after the conference and Isaid very little I had a
minister, a rabbi and a priestfacilitate the conference, in
which 200 people attended.
The only thing I said at theend of the conference if we stay
together and work together,people like Wendy will have a
home.
Wendy was a woman who spoke,who was homeless with her
(21:15):
daughter, and she lived in asuburban community and she spoke
to us.
And then after that, I didn'twant it just to be such a nice
conference where people wouldsay, well, somebody should do
something about this.
So I asked how many of youwould be willing to come back to
(21:38):
another meeting and talk abouthow we might establish shelter
in Union County and other meansof support for families
experiencing homelessness, andalmost every hand went out.
Several weeks later I had themeeting at Christ Church in
(21:58):
Sumba with a bunch of folks.
Speaker 1 (22:01):
You know your life changed in a second and a lot of
the people that you have metthrough the years have had the
exact same thing happen to themin different stories and that
their lives were changed in onemoment.
And I was wondering if thatfragile moment is where you meet
(22:26):
the people that you have helpedthroughout the years.
Yes, I identify with them.
Speaker 2 (22:32):
And that takes me right back to that fragile
moment.
And even though their situationis different than mine, they're
still hurting, and so Iidentified with that and I want
to help in whatever way I can,and that's why I began, you know
, giving sandwiches, but thenthat led to so much more, to the
(22:53):
conference and then ultimatelycreating a program for families
with children.
And then, as you say, that ledto a national organization with
close to 200 affiliatesproviding shelter, meals,
prevention services,transitional housing and so much
(23:15):
more, Even programs for pets.
Some of our affiliates allowedoh okay, yeah, that so much more
.
Even programs for pets Some ofour affiliates allow.
Oh okay, yeah, that started inPhoenix.
We're there because you knowthey face this situation of
should we continue to live inour cars, so Daisy will continue
to be part of our family, orshould we give Daisy up and take
(23:39):
shelter?
So you know, our affiliate inPhoenix saw that as a problem
and they created a pet programand then other affiliates
replicated.
They say there's about a dozenthat have some sort of pet
program.
So a lot of innovations comeout of this.
People want to make adifference and they bring their
(24:03):
creativity.
I guess my moment was giving thesandwich to Millie, but when I
started the Interfaith HouseVitality Network, which was
later called Family Promise, itallowed people to get involved
because the program ended upbeing 12 congregations who
worked together on a weeklyrotational basis to provide
(24:26):
shelter, meals and otherassistance.
So volunteers get involved.
They bring their own childrento volunteer, they prepare meals
, they talk, they interact withfamilies and that's really, you
know, the secret sauce of familypromise.
Some have changed now and morehave a static site, but they do
(24:51):
their best to engage volunteers.
That happened when COVID struck.
It changed a lot.
Speaker 1 (25:00):
Yeah, it changed a lot of things.
You know, I've always believedthat every moment in our lives
is a stepping stone and thatnothing is wasted.
When you started riding thattrain after your mom had passed
away and you started visitingyour grandma in New York City
when she worked at Macy's, youknow, I believed that you were
(25:24):
supposed to be there.
That experience opened youreyes.
You went, like we said earlier,from all that affluence to New
York City, where everything wasso different.
You know, new York has alwaysheld a special place in my heart
too.
I grew up in a place that waswith no diversity none and I've
(25:57):
always been drawn to cities likeNew York because it's so rich
in culture and humanity and Iwant my kids to see the beauty
in all kinds of people andbackgrounds.
And just last summer, when myson was eight, we walked past a
man who was homeless outside ofSACS and my son said he walks up
(26:18):
to everybody who is homelessand he makes sure that he has a
conversation with them.
And yeah, and he said I'm goingto get you something to eat.
And he did that all by himself,so I was so proud of him.
Speaker 2 (26:35):
How beautiful.
Speaker 1 (26:36):
Yeah, every time that we go back to New York we look
for him.
But I thought about your Gaga.
You know your grandma when youwanted to feed a homeless man in
New York when you were young,your grandma said no.
Where your grandma said no.
So what stigmas do you see thatkeep people from getting that
(27:02):
sandwich or giving it to them ormaybe starting a conversation
with them?
Speaker 2 (27:07):
Your son actually has the open heart of a child that
hasn't been taught to think thisway or that way.
He just reacts with his heart.
But the stigma for many peopleis they're afraid.
They don't know if they want todo something, they're not sure
what to do.
But for many people it's thestigma of, oh, you're mentally
(27:30):
ill or they're alcoholics orit's unsafe to go near them.
So there's a big stigma therefor involving people.
I did end up having a number ofmy neighbors come in and join me
when I would go in on Sunday tobring the sandwiches and that
was really wonderful.
And some got even more involved, like this one man, bob Nielsen
(27:55):
.
He had John, who was analcoholic and homeless in Port
Authority, back to his house fora shower and just stay
overnight and he ultimately gotJohn into a veteran's home in
Long Island, which was very nice.
But Bob is certainly anexception.
(28:18):
Most people are afraid mentallyill or substance abuse.
But I started to say in Summitthere were 25 people who were
homeless in Summit, new Jersey,where I live, on the streets and
everything.
So we formed a task force onhomelessness and we were able to
(28:43):
help 20 of the 25 findapartments and it's
life-changing, just absolutelylife-changing, you know, once
they have their own place andtheir dignity back.
But the other five haveproblems like mental illness and
(29:05):
substance abuse.
But we're trying to work withthem.
But I think it's just a stigma.
People are afraid.
But that's one of the reasonstoo.
When I decided I wanted to helpin a bigger way and I
ultimately ended up leaving myjob at Warner Lambert, I focused
on families because they wereat the time the fastest growing
(29:27):
segment of the homelesspopulation, accounting for 35%
of all those who were homeless,and I thought that is something
that really just community coulddo.
And that idea proved to be truebecause they weren't afraid to
come back into their own churchand prepare a meal or stay
overnight or bring their kids tovolunteer.
(29:50):
I remember one woman who camewith her six-year-old daughter
and she said we're going to seethe homeless, we're going to
volunteer and see the homelessat church.
So she went to church and shejust started playing with the
other kids and then she walkedout and they went to the car.
(30:10):
She said Mommy, when are wegoing to see the homeless?
She was expecting she had avision of what the homeless
looked like, but it's just kidsplaying with kids, that's really
beautiful.
So the whole thing grew and, asI saw, it was, you know,
replicable.
And wherever I went I went toOhio or Pennsylvania or the
(30:32):
county People wanted to do this.
The two counties next to mycounty of Union came to me and
said how do we start thisprogram?
I told them how to do it, spokeand ultimately developed some
manuals and it just spread.
And why it spread is there's aneed everywhere for shelter,
(30:57):
support services and care forhomeless families, and I'd say a
good half of them are working.
And there's also the need inthe hearts of people to make a
difference.
Otherwise we wouldn't have180,000 volunteers involved at
any given time.
(31:19):
It makes a difference in thelives of guests, but also
volunteers, some of thesestories of how lives have been
changed.
And you know, even volunteerslike Pace, who worked for San
Diego National Labs as ascientist and they were hosting
(31:40):
a going away party for him andall the people in his department
stood up and gave a perfunctoryspeech, you know.
But then one woman raised herhand shyly, alice, and asked if
she could speak and she saidwhat I remember, mr Pace for is
(32:04):
that I had a flat tire and itwas a cold night and it was
raining and a car drove upbehind me and stopped and got
out and it was Pace and changedthe tire.
She said now I have a wholedifferent view of him because he
(32:27):
, you know, he wasn't just asuit, he was somebody who really
cared and that encouraged Paceto get more involved.
When Family Promise came to hischurch he got involved as
coordinator, was coordinator for10 years and had families back
to his house and at the end ofall this he said to me you know
(32:49):
Family Promise and the guests,yeah, he just said that it
enabled him to have a morecompassionate heart.
Speaker 1 (32:56):
It enabled him to have a more compassionate heart.
One of the most powerfulmessages in your book is when
you reflect on your mother'slife and wonder how it might
have been different if peoplehad simply met her with kindness
, understanding and a space toexpress herself, without
judgment.
I think that that is probably Imean judgment when we so often
(33:28):
talk about what's going on inour lives.
We just want to be met with anunderstanding heart, somebody
that's looking at us togenuinely just listen, without
judgment.
You know, I've always believedthat one of the greatest gifts
that we can give another humanbeing is the freedom to be fully
themselves.
You know, real raw, honest,without that fear of judgment,
and clearly that's the truth.
(33:50):
That family promise and thatyou have lived by, even as a
single mom.
Your purpose never wavered andI love how you had mentioned it,
but you did talk, you did takeyour boys into New York, you let
them experience all that lifecould be with compassion and
(34:11):
courage instead of fear and thatstigma.
So that was so beautiful.
That quote that you shared fromLeo Biscagli is one of my
favorite.
You know, I just love him.
Too often we underestimate thepower of a touch, a smile, a
kind word, a listening ear, thesmallest act of caring, all of
(34:33):
which have the potential to turna life around.
Could you talk about lovingwithout judgment?
Speaker 2 (34:41):
It's not our job to judge.
We're all part of God's familyand you meet people where they
are and you do what you can tohelp.
You love them.
You just don't, you know, judgethem.
Like when I see people who mayhave a mental illness or a
(35:02):
substance abuse problem.
It's a problem in their brain,you know.
If they're mentally ill, sothat's really not them.
You go deeper and they have aspirit and so you just love them
.
You don't judge them.
They have an illness.
If I'm speaking to somebody whohas pancreatic cancer, I don't
(35:26):
judge them.
No more should I judge someonewho has a mental illness which
has to do with their brain orsubstance abuse?
I don't have a judgment.
The only thing I care about is,if somebody's already, I want
to help, and I think a lot ofpeople feel that way.
That's why family problems havegrown so large.
(35:49):
I just don't.
I don't think I judge.
Speaker 1 (35:54):
Yeah, I mean, that's really what we all want is not
to be judged and to be who weare, without judgment.
I can say with full confidence,anyone who reads your book will
never look at someone who isunhoused the same way.
(36:14):
Again, you shine a light on themany reasons that people can
find themselves in thatsituation from and you mentioned
some but like fire, death,health crisis, job loss, the
loss of eyesight, trauma, mentalillness, substance abuse,
domestic violence, trauma,mental illness, substance abuse,
(36:36):
domestic violence and these arestories, not statistics, some
of which you share beautifullyin your story and I encourage
everybody to read it becausethese are stories that are woven
throughout your book.
I used to be, in one of my lives, a director of a battered
(36:58):
woman's shelter, and the womenand children who came in had
nothing and they were notlooking for handouts.
They just needed a safe placeto breathe, reset and move
forward.
And I also worked at a grouphome for boys who had been
(37:19):
abused and when they age out ofthe system, that's it.
You know, you're 18 and you'reout a lot of times, and I did
have one show up at my doorstepafter he had aged out because he
had no one.
So you know, I just said comeon, and he slept on my couch
until we figured it out justsaid, come on.
(37:43):
And he slept on my couch untilwe figured it out.
I mean, people honestly justfind themselves in that
situation and there's justnothing that you can do, and
they're not looking for anything, you know, and they want to
give back, they want to help andwe're just offering them those
that you know seeds of hope, Iguess you could call them so
that they can get plantedsomewhere and grow.
So thank you for changingpeople's views.
(38:07):
If they read your book, theywill change their view on
homelessness.
Yes, I believe they will,because it takes them from
people who are chronicallyhomeless in New York City to
families and mothers with kidssleeping in their cars but
working, and how lives can bechanged with a little help you
(38:29):
know of the guests that you havehelped along these years, these
38 years but also volunteers,and volunteers are essential, of
course, and it is you say theauthentic interactions between
guests and caring volunteers isthe healing part of the recipe.
(38:53):
I mean, that is the recipe.
Everything is possible.
Recipe Everything is possible.
Every skill is used, fromquilting to hair nails, helping
guests get jobs, writing resumes.
I mean, can you share aboutsome of these ways that people
can get involved, Because Ithink everybody has a skill that
(39:14):
can be used.
Speaker 2 (39:15):
Yeah, it's just as you say whatever talent you have
, offer it.
They may not have a programcalled, you know, a nail salon,
but if you offer to do the nailsof guests, that will make a big
difference.
Or photography, as so manyfamilies don't have a portrait
of their family and so onevolunteer took a portrait.
(39:40):
So you know, whatever you know,whatever you feel you can do,
you know to make a difference.
Also, acts of kindness.
I remember there was one womanat a shelter but she Chuck, was
picking her up every morningbecause her car broke down.
(40:02):
This volunteer, chuck, and shewould come out at 5 o'clock in
the morning and Chuck would bestanding there waiting for her.
And then he learned that thiswoman liked lattes.
So this one morning he stoodthere with two cups in his hand,
one for himself and the and thelatte for Judy.
(40:25):
Once you saw that if you saidto Chuck, you're gonna make me
cry.
You know, and she did so, herewas just a latte, but it moved
her so much that somebody notonly takes the time to be there
at 5 o'clock in the morning butwould offer her a latte.
So there's so many small actsof kindness that can make a
(40:46):
difference.
The man across the street in myneighborhood knew that I was
away.
There had been a bad snowstorm.
So when I came back my drivewaywas completely shut, my walkway
and my porch and I opened thedoor and a little note fell out
and he said I hope I didn't messanything up, but I knew you
(41:08):
were away.
So I shuffled your driveway andit was my neighbor across the
street, chris, and I kept thatnote for a long time and I
couldn't bear to throw it awaybecause it just meant so much to
me.
It really did.
I didn't know Chris that well,I mean, I really didn't know him
(41:29):
but the fact that he would dothat really touched me.
You know, it's to the pointwhere I couldn't throw the note
away.
So little things can make aprofound difference, you know.
Speaker 1 (41:42):
One of your volunteers, you know.
The guest had asked to get someclothes.
They needed some clothes andthey were going to take— she
just said, well, you can take meto Kohl's, and they took her to
Macy's, you know.
Oh yeah, that was the hope yeah.
Speaker 2 (41:58):
Yeah, I mean— the hope to Macy's and know oh yeah,
that was the hope.
Yeah, yeah, the hope to Macy'sand got her 10 new outfits.
Speaker 1 (42:04):
No, it's those simple things that just.
It's so small, but it makes herfeel important.
It makes them feel seen,validated.
You know, joe's story hit me.
After surviving childhood abuse, he became a Family Promise
(42:24):
volunteer and said that the painthat we receive is not a life
sentence.
It can become a calling.
Then there's and I want to sayhis name, right, but Yusof the
refugee from Uganda.
Speaker 2 (42:40):
Oh yeah, yes, he was so touched by everybody serving
him and smiling.
Speaker 1 (42:46):
I'll tell you what.
When the team of people fromFamily Promise served him food
from his home country, it mademe know that you know, they're
not statistics, these are humanbeings.
He was seen and loved for rightwhere he was.
That is just so beautiful.
(43:08):
And then Sadie I guess tooneeded help.
She was held hostage by anabusive Abusive, yeah, yeah and
lost her housing because of whathe did.
You know nothing that she did.
So what I loved was she foundagency with you, she said.
(43:42):
Rather than talking about whatwas wrong, the people at Family
Promise helped me create a planfor overcoming my circumstances.
They never made me feel like mysituation was too big for me to
overcome.
She said that she trusted thepath that had helped thousands
before her.
I mean, karen, what you did hascreated a place where people
walk through the doors to a newlife.
So how did you cultivate thatkind of culture?
(44:06):
Because it was so important andyou touched on it a little bit,
but it was important for you tohave all faiths involved.
Can you talk about theintentional choices that you
made at the beginning?
Speaker 2 (44:23):
The beginning I knew I wanted to focus on families
and all religions to getinvolved and I wanted the
program to be one of hospitality.
In fact the first name wasInterfaith Hospitality Network.
We later changed our namebecause we had grown into so
(44:43):
much more in other programs.
But hospitality and formingwith the hope that relationships
would be formed, you know,really happened with volunteers
coming back and helping familiessign housing, even renting an
(45:03):
apartment for a family you knowthat apartment that they owned
for jobs.
Some people employed guests intheir companies.
So it was just a culture ofcaring.
But I can't take credit forthat.
I mean, I cared but I didn'tplant the caring in the heart of
(45:26):
our volunteers.
They're naturally caring andlooking for a way to help have
needs all over this country.
You know, for every four unitsof federal housing, only one
family actually receives it,even though they are eligible.
(45:48):
That's due to the lack offunding.
So you know there's a great,great crisis there and some of
our volunteers have gotteninvolved in public policy
advocacy, speaking to theirlegislators and doing things
locally.
Right now, at this time, Idon't see big changes and I see
(46:10):
changes in social programs, butnot in a good way.
So we're going to see more andmore people who are experiencing
homelessness and it's importantto reach out, to call your
local shelter, to visit withthem, to see if you can
volunteer, or your local soupkitchen, or just, you know, give
(46:32):
a sandwich to a man who's lyingon cardboard on the subway
grate, like your son.
Did you know?
If your son can do that, we allcan do it.
Speaker 1 (46:46):
Yeah, yeah, you did share in your book that you
wanted to understandhomelessness and why it existed
in the wealthiest country onearth like it does, and it is
getting worse.
I mean, after all these yearsof walking alongside individuals
with family and maybe youalready answered this, I'm not
(47:07):
sure but I mean, have youdiscovered the answer?
Why?
Speaker 2 (47:10):
Because you need government to create
partnerships with the nonprofitsector.
Nonprofits are doing a lot.
The more nonprofits are beingcreated all the time, but they
alone cannot meet the need.
You need policies like to givepeople food stamps and we have
(47:32):
some benefits or healthcare, butpeople who are poor don't have
these supports and all it takesis a loss of a job, your hours
cut at work or a divorce or anillness and you become homeless
and there's not the safety net.
(47:53):
If you're going to see bigchanges the government has to
provide a safety net.
It's beyond nonprofits tohandle that and I don't know,
maybe that will happen.
I'm afraid it's going to be sobad.
We're going to see so manypeople experiencing homelessness
on the streets.
(48:13):
Maybe something good that willcome from all these cuts is they
see more people in need andmaybe maybe something will
change.
But I don't know.
I think I'm being very naiveand wishful thinking about that.
I think I'm being very naiveand exercising, uh, wishful
(48:33):
thinking well, I mean, there'snothing wrong with that.
Speaker 1 (48:36):
but the facts in your book really speak loud.
One in 30 children experiencehomelessness every year.
Yes, exactly 1.2 millionstudents in pre-K through 12th
grade were recorded as homelessin just the 21-22 school year.
(48:57):
Most renting families now spendover half their income on
housing.
I mean you can't survive onthat.
Speaker 2 (49:03):
Yeah, the issue is not homelessness.
That's just a symptom.
The real issue is poverty andpeople can't live on what they
earn.
Or the people that can't workfor some reason can't live on
the benefits that are offered.
Speaker 1 (49:24):
Yeah, I mean you do mention how we need people to
work in nursing homes, but yetthey don't aren't paid enough.
And how we need people at fastfood, but you know they aren't
paid enough.
The poverty line in 2023 for afamily of four was just $30,000.
Right, and one in four eligiblehouseholds actually receive
(49:52):
federal housing assistance.
Simply because the fundingisn't there.
Speaker 2 (49:55):
I mean, that's what can you do about it?
One of the things we can doabout it is fully fund the
housing programs, federalhousing assistance, rather than
just one in four.
Make it four out of four.
Speaker 1 (50:09):
And so many are uninsured.
Speaker 2 (50:11):
Oh yeah.
Speaker 1 (50:12):
So there's a quote from Mother Teresa in your book
that I absolutely love.
Teresa in your book that Iabsolutely love, she said I
alone cannot change the world,but I can cast a stone across
the waters to create manyripples.
And as soon as I read that, Ijust said out loud amen.
(50:54):
And yet here we are in therichest country in the world,
like we just said, stillgrappling with the heartbreaking
of living.
You know, if we truly want tobuild a more equitable and
inclusive America whereopportunity isn't limited by a
(51:16):
zip code or a circumstance, youknow it needs a huge systemic
change.
Speaker 2 (51:25):
The federal minimum wage right now is $7.25 per hour
and that hasn't been changedsince 2009.
The states can have their ownminimum wage and in New Jersey I
think it's $15 an hour andthere's a campaign to increase
(51:49):
that to $18 an hour.
Speaker 1 (51:52):
So all those things?
Speaker 2 (51:53):
can help.
Speaker 1 (51:54):
Right, right, it's such a deep problem, I mean,
that would only be a surface.
You're no longer the CEO there.
Speaker 2 (52:04):
No, I retired.
Speaker 1 (52:06):
Yeah, who is the CEO now?
Speaker 2 (52:09):
Cheryl Shook, and she's just doing an amazing job.
After I retired, klaas Ehlers,who I worked with for 20 years,
became the CEO and then he leftand so we hired Cheryl Shuck.
She's just amazing.
She ran our Grand Rapidsaffiliate and she created many
(52:34):
units of affordable housing andother innovative programs.
So she's just the right personand has done wonderful things to
add prevention, intervention,sheltering, transitional housing
to what they do to helpfamilies achieve sustainable
(52:54):
independence.
So, yeah, I retired.
Speaker 1 (52:58):
How many states does Family Promise have?
How many?
We're in 44 states 44.
Wow, you're in my state.
You, in the back of your book,have all your affiliates listed.
You have ways that people canget involved in Call People,
(53:19):
which I think is wonderful.
I have to say that the endingof your book I never saw coming.
I'm so sorry that after youretired that you ended up having
an accident, so I just wantedto see how you were doing.
Speaker 2 (53:40):
Oh, I'm doing much better now, but I am In 2019,
February 12th, I was sitting bythe pool of.
I had a small condo in MiamiBeach.
I was sitting by the pool and Iwas about to have a cryotherapy
(54:01):
appointment.
Do you know what that is?
I do, yeah.
So I had done that about 30times.
I have some water.
I'd done that about 30 times,so I went to a place where I
would meet the attendant andthey said that she had only been
there four weeks, but she wasthoroughly trained and I knew
(54:24):
the trainer and I had a lot ofrespect for her.
So I thought well, you knowthat's all right, but
unfortunately, when I got inthere, she made the temperature
so, so, so cold that I keptsaying I don't remember this,
but I'm cold, I'm cold.
And I fell out, um, like apopsicle, and hit my head
(54:47):
because she opened the door butshe stood behind the door so she
couldn't help me out.
When I hit my head, um, Ididn't have any feeling from
that neck down.
I didn't have any feeling fromthat neck down and I called my
two sons and they came downimmediately.
Then I had surgery to back myneck.
I have a spinal cord injury,that is not got complete
(55:11):
injuries and incomplete injury,which is a good thing to have
because it means your spinalcord is not severed, it's just
bruised.
So I made a lot of progress.
I can now walk with aspecialized walker and the help
of my PT people.
(55:32):
I go into New York on Thursdaysand I walk with something
called WanderCraft and I walkwith something called
WanderCraft.
I have like a robot thingthat's attached to me and the
robot and I walk and you know, Ijust I can lift my legs and the
robot helps too, and so that'sinteresting and it's just I'm
(55:57):
trying everything.
I have something called theLocal Mat at Kessler Institute
where I go for therapy and I'min a harness but I'm walking on
a treadmill.
So even right now, as I'mtalking to you, I'm moving my
legs.
I made a lot of progress thereand I'm an artist and
(56:18):
unfortunately my right arm andhand have very little movement.
I really can't use my righthand, but I can use my left hand
.
So I have a gadget where I canput the paintbrush in this
gadget and I can paint, not likeI painted before, but I always
(56:39):
painted Well, if you can see thepictures behind me.
Speaker 1 (56:43):
You did those.
Speaker 2 (56:44):
Yeah, I did those.
Yeah, Wow, the big one I didduring my son's nap time.
They were two and four, but Iwas a fairly good painter.
But now I'm able to paint withmy left hand with this gadget
and the paintbrush, and it's alittle more impressionistic than
(57:06):
I've done before, just becauseI don't have the control of my
hand, but I love doing it, youknow, and I found out that I
could do it.
So I do that when I can, butI'm busy.
I have quite a few speakingengagements, either on podcasts
or at churches or synagogues ornonprofits, so I enjoy that.
(57:29):
So I feel like I'm extendingthe message.
My goal is to inspire people towant to make a difference in
the lives of others people towant to make a difference in the
lives of others.
So I did Family Promise andthat's beautiful and that's well
on its way to even becomingbigger and even better, and then
the book is going very well andpeople are reading it, and then
(57:54):
my speaking engagements werehopefully, I inspire people to
make a difference.
Speaker 1 (57:58):
Well, you inspired me .
I want to end with this quotefrom your book Meant for More
Following your Heart and Findingyour Purpose.
The meaning of life is to findyour gift.
The purpose of life is to giveit away.
Pablo Picasso and your book.
That is your book.
That's your purpose, that'syour mission.
(58:20):
You live that quote.
Where can people get a hold ofFamily Promise or how can they
volunteer?
Speaker 2 (58:36):
How can they get your book?
They can go on the FamilyPromise website,
familypromiseorg, or they canget my book at Barnes, Noble,
Amazon or bookshopcom and alsokarenolsonauthorcom, and I'll
hold up my book.
Speaker 1 (58:51):
Yeah, there it is.
It's a book with a message anda movement and healing
throughout the entire thing,with dignity and humanity and
you know, a purpose of puttingpeople on the pages so people
can read it and learn a lot moreabout what truly homelessness
(59:14):
is.
So it is just so touching.
Thank you so much for writingit and for everything that
you're doing, what you've done,and I just want to say to our
listeners thank you so much forlistening today and, as usual,
there is purpose in the pain andthere is hope in the journey
(59:38):
and we will see you next time.
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