September 24, 2025 • 46 mins
What happens when everything you believe about your family turns out to be a lie? In this gripping conversation with novelist Leslie Rasmussen, we dive deep into her latest work, "When People Leave, Love Lies and Finding the Truth" – a story that will resonate with anyone who's ever questioned their family narrative.
Leslie, whose impressive career spans from writing for comedy legends like Roseanne Barr and Drew Carey to publishing award-winning novels, crafts a tale that's both heartbreaking and healing. Three sisters return to their childhood home following their mother's unexpected suicide only to discover that their entire lives were built on carefully constructed deceptions. As they unravel the truth, they're forced to confront how these hidden family secrets have unconsciously shaped every decision they've ever made.
Our conversation explores the profound ripple effects of family secrets – how they mold us even when we don't know they exist. We discuss the ways trauma manifests differently in each sister: through addiction, stagnant relationships, and abandoned dreams. Leslie beautifully articulates how our parents' patterns become our own, even when we're actively trying to be different, and how forgiveness becomes infinitely more complex when the person who hurt you is no longer alive to provide answers.
What makes this discussion particularly powerful is Leslie's compassionate portrayal of the mother character – a woman who lied not out of malice but from a place of fear and protection. Through this lens, we examine the impossible choices parents sometimes make and the heavy burden of carrying secrets for a lifetime.
Whether you've experienced family deception firsthand or simply appreciate stories that explore the complexity of human relationships, this episode offers profound insights into forgiveness, healing, and the courage it takes to break generational patterns. Listen now and join the conversation about how we can make peace with painful truths and find freedom in authenticity.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:23):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne, and today we havethe very talented Leslie
Rasmussen, a woman whose wordshave lit up both television
screens and bookshelves.
She was born and raised in LosAngeles and is a proud UCLA grad
who went on to write for someof the funniest names in show
(00:44):
business Burt Reynolds, roseanneBarr, norm MacDonald and Drew
Carey, just to name a few which,by the way, is very impressive.
I thought that that was reallycool.
Her writing credits stretch fromhit sitcoms to beloved shows
like the Wild Thornberries andSweet Valley High, and it
doesn't stop there.
She's been published more than20 times in the Huffington Post,
(01:04):
and she speaks on panels aboutfemale empowerment and is a
proud member of the WritersGuild of America and Women in
Film.
Leslie is an award-winningnovelist with titles like After
Happily Ever After and theStories we Cannot Tell, both of
which earned her well-deservedpraise.
But today we're diving into hernewest novel, when People Leave
(01:26):
, love Lies and Finding theTruth, a book that took me on a
ride that I did not want to getoff.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Thank you so much for having me, Anne.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
This is great I found myself completely immersed in
the emotional unraveling of thisbeautifully broken family.
The heartbreak was real, thesecrets were raw and the
journeys of these threedaughters was deeply human and
profoundly relatable.
Each sister brought somethingdifferent to the story.
(02:00):
There was grief, resilience,regret and hope, and I felt like
I was sitting in that housewith them, sifting through
memories and truths that theynever knew they needed to face.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, thank you, that's great.
That's what I wanted.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, what struck me the most was how loss revealed
so much of their own unhealed,conditioned responses, and how
important it is to embrace everypart of the journey, no matter
how hard, so we can evolve andbecome a better version of
ourselves and become differentthan the dysfunction that raised
(02:40):
us.
The story is about more thansaying goodbye.
It's about saying hello to thepoints of ourselves that we've
buried for too long.
It's about how love can changeas we evolve and grow and, most
of all, it's a powerful reminderthat sometimes the truth
doesn't destroy.
It sets us free.
So I would like to start with.
(03:01):
You know, this storyencapsulates so many of us and
there were so many strong themesthat wove through this novel,
things that we talk about onthis podcast all the time.
And I would like to start withthe quote that you etched in the
beginning of your book whenthere's a breakdown in the
family, it's the ones that loveyou the most that hurt you the
(03:22):
deepest.
Anyway, how does this quotereflect the heartbeat of your
story?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, it's so true that, I mean, in marriages and
relationships, you kind ofbecome vulnerable and you give
yourself to somebody and whenyou do that, that's the person
that can actually hurt you themost.
And people shock you I meanincluding your parents, and in
this story that's kind of whathappens.
But the love that you have forsomebody makes them able to hurt
(03:57):
you deeply.
But you still have to love.
I mean, you can't go throughlife without loving.
So you kind of take that in andsay, well, I know that if I
really love this person, theycan hurt me and you take that
risk.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
I've always said you know, ifyou can be hurt deeply, then you
have loved deeply.
It's just part of life, andthese sisters really went
through it.
I mean, one of the things thatI absolutely love about your
book is how you don't shy awayfrom anything.
There is loss, there is suicide, there is addiction, there's
identity, there's trauma, mentalhealth, family lies I mean it
(04:34):
is all there, woven into thisstory in a way that feels so
human, and you explore how painshapes us both as individuals
and as a family unit, and youask the kind of quiet, powerful
questions that most of us haveasked ourselves at some point
and lots of times don't evenwant to talk about it.
But one of the most grippingthreads is family secrets.
(04:57):
So often parents think thatthey're protecting their
children by hiding painfultruths, but these secrets end up
shaping a child's identity andin your book this theme runs so
deep.
Can you talk about how youapproach writing about family
secrets and why they matter andhow they shape us?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Sure, you know, I didn't know about any major
family secrets in my life, butthere were little things that as
an adult came out that I saidlike what, what are you talking
about?
I'd never heard that and Irealized when I started to think
about it those secrets canaffect you, even if you don't
know what those secrets are,which I thought was fascinating.
(05:38):
I mean, in these sisters' livesI'm not going into the major
secrets, but they're all dealingwith abandonment and they don't
know that the decisions thatthey have made in their lives
are because of that.
And so they turn out into thesepeople as they become adults.
(05:59):
They're all in their 30s andthey realize later on they
realize, oh my God, I madedecisions in my life that just
seem like decisions, but theyactually were based on a past
that they didn't even know aboutExactly.
So I thought that was a reallyinteresting thing and I also.
I had both my parents, so Iwasn't abandoned.
(06:20):
But I also know a lot of peoplethat were in the foster care
system and when I talked to,especially a very close friend
of mine, and when I talked toher about the foster care system
, she had parents.
They put her in the foster caresystem because they just didn't
want to deal with her when shewas like 10.
And it turned out in the end tobe a better place for her.
(06:42):
I mean, she ended up in a goodplace and somebody who took her
in and helped her get to college.
But during all that time shehas tremendous abandonment
issues, and so I was thinking alot about that when I wrote this
book.
And the sisters all do havedifferent things.
The oldest is a sober alcoholic, the middle one is in a
(07:03):
relationship that should haveended a long time ago but she
just doesn't end it.
And the youngest one basicallyfollowed her mother, where she
married very, very young.
But she also married somebodythe only person she ever dated
and she gave up her career andshe had four kids very quickly
(07:27):
up her career and she had fourkids very quickly, and so she
followed her mother.
But she's also sort of thinkinglike, well, is this the life
I'm going to lead forever?
You know, things do come up.
I mean, we know we havechildren.
I mean, at a certain point itcomes up to you where you think
well, now what, what am I goingto do?
Is this where I'm going to go?
Is this what I'm going to do?
I gave up something.
In my case, I gave up sitcomwriting to raise my kids, which
(07:48):
I'm very happy I did, but I'vealways missed it.
So there's that loss also ofthe life you had before, and you
know there's a lot of loss inthis in different ways.
Oh, there is, but I was veryconcerned about making sure
there was a lot of lightness inthe book.
So I have two sisters and Iwanted to write a book about
(08:11):
sisters for a long time, but Ididn't want my sisters to think
that they were anything likethese women.
So they're none of us.
They're so different.
None of us have any of theseissues or anything, but I loved
the dialogue between my sistersand I and how we get along.
And siblings.
I think siblings have a lot toshow each other, to teach each
(08:31):
other.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
And.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I think siblings also have funny relationships.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, I love their dynamics.
It was a very fun part of thebook watching them interact with
each other and that's sointeresting because you did pull
it from different parts of yourlife.
Even though it wasn't your life, you took it from others around
you and I was adopted, my kidswere adopted, and I very much
understood the abandonment partof it.
(08:57):
Within that woke that wasweaving throughout your book and
I actually loved it because,even though you didn't live it,
you portrayed it very well.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Thank you.
I did do research and talkingto people.
I have a friend who's in AA andshe's sober and I talked to her
a lot and so I knew a lot aboutAA that I could weave in there
and how she felt.
But yes, I do take from my lifeall the time, but it's not
necessarily, you know, from mylife as people.
(09:29):
It's some of the dialogue, someof the stuff that comes from my
childhood, the conversationswith the sisters like over the
salads, who likes what and whodoesn't like what, and they all
think somebody else likessomething.
That's all from my childhood.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah.
Well, when the story wasunraveling, the three women who
we said are sisters, theydiscover that basically their
entire lives were a lie, whichyou touched on.
But what I loved is that, nomatter how deep the lies got,
that it left room for them toheal together.
And so can you talk about notjust the relationships that you
(10:07):
touched on, but how they worktogether through this journey.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well, the one thing I also wanted to make sure was
they work together, but theydidn't, because grief is so all
over the place.
So sometimes one sister's angryand one sister's sad, and
sometimes they're all sad, andsometimes they're all like
what's going on?
Because I kept thinking well, Ilost my father nine years ago
and I lost him, you know, formedical reasons, so it wasn't
(10:35):
suicide, but I was angry at himfor leaving.
So, even though it wasn't hisfault, I was still had an anger
in me that was like why did youleave me?
Why did you go?
And I was also very sad.
And so I think that they're intheir case.
(10:55):
Because of the way the motherthey think everything's great
and she takes her own life.
They do have an anger like whycouldn't you tell us what's
going on?
Were you depressed?
You weren't depressed at all.
We never saw anything.
So why did this happen?
And the other reason that Iwrote the book was, um, both my
husband and I were in comedy andtelevision and we knew somebody
(11:18):
who was working on a show,running the show.
We thought, and all of a suddenwe found out that he killed
himself and it was, I'm sure hisfamily knew why.
We didn't find out till muchlater that he actually was very
depressed.
But you wouldn't see thatbecause he would go into a room
and I saw him not that muchbefore he died.
(11:41):
I saw him at a restaurant.
I was like hey, guys, hi, youknow he was one of those very
kind of outgoing people, wow.
So you just thought he was andhe was a comedy writer, so you
just thought he was funny and onall the time.
And so it shocked me and he'snot the only person that we knew
that did that.
(12:01):
So that was part of it, and partof it was also when Robin
Williams killed himself.
You know the world didn't knowuntil later that he had Lewy
body dementia and he was goingthrough all these things and in
his mind he was no longer RobinWilliams.
So my first book deals withthat a lot, because I did a lot
of research with.
(12:22):
I did some seminars that RobinWilliams' wife did and learned a
lot about it, about leaky bodydementia and how people don't
know they have it.
So it was all combined intothat too.
I just thought, wow, the worldhad no clue that he was going
through anything.
So that's kind of where thissort of kind of came together.
(12:43):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh my gosh, and I think that and that's so sad
that you didn't even know thatyour friend was sad, this comedy
writer didn't even know andthere were no signs.
No signs, and that's you know,because you always know about
the ones that are droppinglittle seeds along the way and
(13:08):
you pay attention to that, butif you have no clue, I mean
that's scary.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And that's why in that scene later on, when Abby
says that Morgan gave her thenecklace, she never knew why.
Because a lot of people beforethey commit suicide and you may
not know this like not see ithappening, but they start to
give things away.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Right, yeah, yeah.
Well, that is a really deeplesson theme throughout your
book of paying attention to eachother and what was going on
with each of the characters, forthem to pick up what was much
pain that is left behind by ourparents.
Often what we do is, you know,we take on that shame that is
(13:53):
passed down, and then we blameourselves and question if there
were things about us that causedus, you know, caused our
(14:14):
parents to make the decisionsthat they made, caused our
parents to make the decisionsthat they made.
So then they, you know, you,sit around and you wonder did I
do something?
Was part of what happened, partof what you know?
Did I have anything to do withthat?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, the sisters go through that too, because in
their mind their mother was fineand they cannot figure out why
she would do this.
So, yeah, they start to saycannot figure out why she would
do this.
So, yeah, they start to say,well, did I do something?
Was it that one time I forgotto call her and she got so upset
that I didn't call her?
That she, I mean even stuffthat doesn't really make sense,
(14:48):
like you know, your parents notgoing to take their own life
because you didn't call for aweek or two, but those things
come into your mind and theguilt and the shame and the you
know, just the blame that theykind of go through and it took
them through the book theyfigure out.
Well, it really wasn't theirfault at all, but it takes a
little time to kind of come tothat realization.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, the three sisters do so well at crafting
their new narratives, which theycontinually had to do.
They just kept rewritingthemselves after realizing their
past wasn't who they reallywere.
Can you talk more about that,because it was so intriguing?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Oh, thank you.
I tried to figure out how to doit without giving away spoilers
, but I think as the time goeson and they discover different
things that were held from themthat they never knew, they start
to look at their own lives.
And once they look at their ownlives, they realize that things
they did well, this isn'tserving me anymore.
(15:51):
And why was I doing this?
Why did I stay in thisrelationship?
Why didn't I find somethingoutside of my kids to also fuel
me?
And so they start to not likethey react to all of these
things that happen to them bylooking at into deeply and
introspectively into their ownlives and to see how things can
(16:14):
change for them.
And it takes them a while tochange, but they also do really
start to, for the first time,really start to look at it and
figure it out.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yes, yeah.
Their evolution all three ofthem and together was such a
beautiful part of the story, andone of the most powerful
threads in the book is how eachof them tried to break free from
their parents' patterns.
Abby, probably, but they eachall had parts of them wanting to
(16:47):
be anything but them.
They didn't want to be anythinglike their parents, and yet, as
the story unfolds, we see howdeeply those inherited stories
live within them, evenunconsciously.
How did you approach writingthe tensions between wanting to
be different from their parentsbut still carrying pieces of
(17:08):
them?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Oh, that was hard, because that's partially why
Carla's backstory is in there.
So, you can see things thathappened to Carla that that also
would kind of explain certainthings with the girls and they
(17:31):
loved their mother.
They had a great relationshipand the things that they knew
about their mother they reallyliked about themselves.
They were all.
They all had pieces of her inthem.
It was when they found out allthis other stuff that they
didn't really rebel against itbut they started to kind of go
(17:51):
well that their mother did thebest she could.
I mean, most parents do, we alldo the best we can with our
kids and we all make mistakes.
This mother made more mistakesthan some parents, but the girls
(18:11):
I think they never would havestopped loving her, no matter
what.
And that sticks with them.
So even when they realize thatthey've made decisions based on
something their mother did, theystill want to keep, I think,
the pieces of her that theyloved, the things she did for
them as a parent and she was funand fun to be with and all
(18:36):
those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, yeah, I really loved that.
I loved how, once they wereback in their childhood home to
the sisters, slipped into theirold ways.
I mean you know how many timesit took me back.
You know how many times we werestanding across from somebody
who are there from our childhoodand we regress, right, I mean
(19:02):
that can happen.
So what I loved is that whenthey went back to who they once
were you know they lived in thathouse, they slept in their own
rooms that they started tobecome those people again and
the bickering and the bondingand all that stuff that you kind
of touched on a little bit ago.
But because we so often, youknow, when we get into
(19:24):
situations like that, I think itcreates a different healing, a
different layered of healing.
Do you think that returning totheir younger selves helped them
find a different kind ofclosure, or more of a closure?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yes, partially because they all moved to
different places so they wereclose, but it really through.
You know they visited eachother.
It's not the same as when youlive in the same house with your
parent and you know you sharerooms sometimes or you, you know
you see each other every singleday and in school.
And those sisters did.
(19:56):
Once they got back in thathouse and back, like to their
old rooms, which hadn't changedthat much, the two other rooms
and they did start to almostrevert, not having fights but
arguments over some of the samestuff that they would have had
arguments over when they werekids.
And I think it's very normal togo back to your parents' house.
My parents moved from theirhouse but for years they lived
(20:20):
in the same house I grew up inand we would walk back in and
even though my bedroom lookedcompletely different and the den
looked different, I would walkin and feel this warmth and this
comfort of being there.
And my sisters and I are alwaysthe same like that too.
Now we don't have the house togo to, but when we get together
(20:41):
we are just in some ways like wewere back then.
We have a total bond, we havethe same memories and a lot of
things, things that made us likedislike each other, so to speak
, at the time, you know, stillcome up as like, oh my God, I
remember when you did that I wasso mad at you, but it's fun now
and I love that bond that thesisters have where they kind of
(21:03):
do that.
And the one thing that wasreally important to me in the
book which I kept re-editingbecause I wanted to make sure
that whoever read it understoodthat they love each other, that
they're not just picking at eachother, that they have this bond
with each other, that there'strue love, like in a
relationship.
If you say something to yourhusband, wife, whoever, and you
(21:27):
say something kind of snotty andthey go well, that wasn't very
nice and you're like, oh yeah,you're right, you know what I
mean, that you can come backfrom it and siblings, I think,
have that bond where mostsiblings I can't say all
siblings, because I'm sure thereare siblings that don't get
along, but siblings who aretruly bonded together I think
they do have that where you cansay something to somebody and
(21:50):
they can apologize and you kindof let it go where you might not
do that with a friend.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Right, yeah, well, you definitely saw that in the
book.
I got that no-transcript thinkit's giving too much away but
(22:29):
Charlie was in an escape roomand really all of them had their
own in their own reality.
They were trying to escape fromsomething and they all needed
to answer those life-alteringquestions in order to figure out
the next stage of their journey, which would then lead them to
(22:50):
the next set of questions.
So they were seeking to findtheir way out of this locked
past which they didn't even knowthat they had.
And I mean, I think one of theworst things that can happen to
any of us is to find out thatyour entire life was a lie and
your parents were not who youthought that they were.
(23:13):
So one of my favorite questionsin the book and I have asked
this question myself how can Igrieve you when all I feel right
now is anger?
That's a good one.
That's so tough.
Tell me about this question.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, the way their mother did it and when they
found out all these things ofcourse they're going to go to
anger it's like well, wait aminute, who are we?
We don't even know who we are,and we don't know who you are
and what of everything.
We know what is true and whatisn't.
They had no idea, really, whotheir parents were.
The first thing you wouldreally feel, before you felt sad
(23:55):
, was what the heck Like?
What did you do to us?
We are in our 30s and we don'teven know who we are.
We don't know our life and whatdo we trust?
What do we trust about anythingthat's ever happened in our
entire lives?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, because their mom lied about everything.
She lied about everything andshe never.
She was a good actress, but sheloved them.
She lied about everything andshe never.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
she was a good actress, but she loved them.
She lied about everything butloving them.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yes and see that's.
The thing is that we never know, as parents, what we will do
when we want to protect our kids.
How far will we go or whatsecrets will we tell to protect
what we have?
That was an interesting take onall of this, what did you think
Carla the mom did?
(24:42):
And the decisions, what did youthink about her decisions that
she made as a mom?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I think for her.
She told herself she was doingthe best possible thing for
everybody and I think once she Ithink at the beginning it's the
best possible thing foreverybody.
And I think once she, I thinkat the beginning it's the best
possible thing for her.
But I think that as time goeson, she says I'm protecting my
kids, so it's in her head thatshe is actually taking care of
everybody and making their livesbetter, and I think she lives
(25:12):
with that forever.
I think she has to go into adenial that she's denied them of
anything, because if shedoesn't, then she will have the
shame and the guilt and I thinkshe almost creates her new past
for herself and she almostbelieves it.
She gets to that point whenthere's a point where she can't
believe it anymore.
But she gets to a point whereshe really believes and she
(25:36):
thinks this is our life, ourlife is fine.
My girls are fine.
They grew up, they're livingtheir lives, they're doing what
they need to do and I'veprotected them from, you know,
the scary things of the world.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, I don't think that she ever thought that
anybody would find out.
I mean, they definitely hadreached a stage in their life
where that shouldn't have evenhappened.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Right.
But you know, somethinghappened.
She was very private.
She made sure that nobody everfound out.
I mean, she wasn't on socialmedia, she was very private and
she didn't tell people things.
So she created this other lifeand this other past for herself
of things she made up.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, and she definitely wanted to be
different from her parents, andshe was.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
She was.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I mean, she did everything different than her
mom and she showed up for herkids.
She was there all the time.
She was there for everything,yeah, yeah, and she deeply loved
them.
And I don't think that herlives, her lies, stemmed from
anything but fear.
Maybe and that's how it felt tome is that she had such a huge
(26:36):
fear and a protection over herfamily that she was willing to
do whatever it took.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
And also because of her past and things that
happened in her past.
She got very scared wheneverything happened, and so
that's why she had to do whatshe did Right.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I mean, trust is huge and you raise a really good
question how will I ever trustanyone again when my own mother
lied about the most importantthings?
And I mean I say all the time,how are we supposed to trust
when the ones who are supposedto be protecting us are the ones
who are hurting us, even if shedidn't mean to, but she did?
(27:14):
And how can we trust what wesee?
How can we believe what peoplehave told us?
So I mean it brings a crazymaking.
So talk about betrayal.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Well, in this book there's a lot of betrayal.
You know they don't realize itat the beginning, but there's a
lot of betrayal and I think whatyou just said is if somebody
does that to you, how do youtrust not just like your parents
, I mean, and your life, butanybody else in your life?
I mean you go back to the peoplein your life and you think if
(27:47):
there's a man in your life youknow, you think, is that person
you know treating me right?
Are they lying to me?
Are they cheating on me?
What are they doing?
And even friends, I meaneverything, and in Morgan's case
I mean alcohol, you know.
I mean that was sort of it kindof betrayed her in some ways
because it got her involved andthen she had to give it up.
So there's a lot of differenttypes of betrayal in this book.
(28:11):
In Abby's case, I think shefeels not I mean, she loves her
kids more than anything, but Ithink she feels betrayed in some
ways that she got pregnant sofast, you know, because she
didn't get to do her dream.
So that's kind of a betrayal ofnature, or however you want to
put it.
So there is a lot of other waysthat they're betrayed in their
(28:33):
lives besides finding out thattheir mother betrayed them.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yes.
And then, on the flip side ofthat, we have the person who was
carrying the weight of the lies, and as a reader, it was
powerful to watch Carla.
You know the character who wasnavigating the consequences of
her own deception, trying tokeep up with the story that she
built, while we in hindsightcould see how each cover-up and
(28:59):
decision slowly steered hertowards this heartbreaking
outcome.
And so what was it like towrite a character balancing that
kind of inner conflict?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well, I almost felt sorry for her the whole time,
even though she had done this toher daughters, because I knew
why she did it.
But I felt sorry for herbecause to carry a secret like
that and to go into another lifeand not be able to tell anybody
, I mean you are keeping such abig thing and there's nobody
else that you can really tellall these secrets to, and you're
(29:36):
closest to your daughters andyou're keeping a very private
life.
Even with the friends she had,she kept everything at a
distance.
So if you're living your lifelike that, you don't get close
to anybody and you can only getso close to your daughters
because you're lying to them soyou can love them and you can be
part of their lives, but youcan't let them know who you
(29:58):
really are.
So I kind of, when I was writingit, I was trying to do it with
empathy and compassion for herand everything she was going
through also, and I didn't wanther to be the bad guy, because
really she's not.
She made bad decisions, butshe's not a bad person in any
way, shape or form and she'sreally actually a good person
(30:19):
who did all this, and sometimesdecisions are made from people
and it doesn't make them badpeople, it just makes them bad
decisions, and they can have thebest reason in the world for
making these decisions, but thatdoesn't mean they're good
decisions.
And so I kind of just keptlooking at her character and
(30:39):
building her past to make sensewhy certain things had happened
and why she had made certaindecisions, and mostly just felt
compassionate for her.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, I did too.
You did a great job in writingthat, because I think a reader
could have looked at thatdifferently and said you know,
she, oh, look at all thesethings that she did to her
family.
This is really horrible.
But the same time that thestory was unfolding and that you
were finding out more and morewhat the lies that she had told
(31:10):
and why you really felt for her.
You know, I felt compassion forher.
I felt so many things for her.
I was mad that she made thedecisions that she made in the
moment.
But I can also see why she leftthis area because, you know,
she was afraid.
I could see why she felt thatshe had to take her family with
(31:32):
her and why she created what shedid.
It really makes sense to me,and I don't know.
I asked myself would I havedone that if I was in the same
situation?
I mean, it brought me to thatquestion with my own kids.
I don't know what we would doif we are in that situation.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
I don't either, because as parents, we think
well, we would protect our kidsno matter what.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
I think that trumps everything.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, but it's still scary.
And what she did was scary.
I mean, it's not like she didsomething like, yay, I'm going,
I'm doing this.
You know, she was terrified andscared about everything she did
.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
And she did finally let somebody in.
She had that one friend fromthe real estate and she, you
know, in a drinking moment shetold her some things and you
know I was glad that she hadthat and I was glad that they
found and I loved how their path, her kids' paths, led her to
this woman where some of thosethings were answered for her,
(32:28):
which started the whole entireinvestigation, which I thought
was really great.
But I'm glad that it unfoldedthe way that it did.
So she did let that person in.
She kept so many people awaybut she let that one person in
and they found her and I thoughtthat was great.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, no, I, I, the girls knew who she was because
they knew their best friend inyou know where they were in Los
Angeles.
But I needed somebody to givethem some information also.
So I thought if Carla has givensomething not a lot, but
something to this woman, then atleast she can relay something
(33:06):
to kind of send them on a path.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
You asked the question, and this one hit me
pretty hard too how do youforgive a dead person?
I mean, I've asked thatquestion because there is
somebody in my life who, youknow, made a lot of really bad
choices and they're no longerhere.
So how do you forgive a deadperson?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think it's very individual and I think that it's
something that it's actuallyfor you to forgive.
It's obviously not, you know,has nothing to do with them at
that point, right, but I thinkit's really a process.
I think it takes a long time.
I think as you go through timeyou start to remember the good
things.
If this person did have goodthings.
(33:48):
I think there are people thatcannot be forgiven.
I'm sure there are millions ofpeople out there that you know
you would never forgive, butsomebody like Carla, I think
they could forgive her becausethey knew all the other things
that she did for them and howmuch she loved them and how much
she was there for them.
And so the initial thing is I'mnever going to forgive you.
I can't believe you did this tome, but they all acknowledge
(34:11):
that they obviously loved her somuch that they would have
gotten through that.
They would have worked throughit, whether it was in therapy or
with you know, their partnersor whoever but they would have
worked through it and come outon the other end where they
started to see all the goodmemories and not just what she
did.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
And without giving too much away.
I do want to ask you thisquestion and I have quite a.
I have a few more questionsafter this, but I really needed
to ask you this question and Ihave quite a.
I have a few more questionsafter this, but I really needed
to ask you.
Who were you more like withoutand people are going to have to
read the book for them to knowthis what to understand your
answer but were you more likeMorgan, charlie or Abby?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Oh, wow, probably, if I had to pick one, probably
Abby, only because I gave upsomething that I really loved to
go be with my kids.
So that's the only thing.
Like I said before, because ofhaving sisters and I did not
want this book to have anythingto do with any of us, including
(35:15):
myself book to have anything todo with any of us, including
myself, so I think it'd probablybe Abby, just because I've
always sort of mourned my oldcareer and even though I love
what I'm doing now, I stillworking in television was just
such a blast for me and I reallyenjoyed it.
So I think that's why I talkabout grief.
I think there's different griefat different points of your
life.
(35:35):
Whether or not it's a persondying, it could easily be just
giving up a job and learning,like at first you're like angry,
like why can't I do that?
And then it's like okay, butI'm choosing to do this for my
kids who need me.
I'm making the decision to givethat up.
So it's a process, but there isalso anger and sadness and
something like that too.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, too, gave up some work in order to be home
with my kids that I got.
And then COVID happened and Ihave an immunodeficient kid and
you know, pivot, pivot, pivot.
You know that's what we do andwe figure it out.
But I think that I took, Ithink I related a little bit
with each of them.
I think that there was a pieceof me that related with each of
(36:19):
them in a different way, so andit was very relatable, as I with
all of them and even with Carlabeing the mom and the decisions
that she made.
So, but every page was verylife changing for the girls with
a different problem and theyhad to work through together,
like we said, kind of, and theyreally had to figure out how to
(36:41):
move on past nonstop devastatingnews and loss.
And I love the constantevolution of self, I love the
resilience.
This was such a perfect exampleof how, no matter how hard
things get, that we can sustainand come out stronger.
Was that something that youwere going with this?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yes, I wanted to make sure at the end of the book
when I went back that all thesewomen they changed, but they
changed for the better and theyfigured out what was the best
thing for them, and not I didn'twant characters that didn't
change and just went oh well,I'm angry or whatever.
(37:32):
And not, I didn't wantcharacters that didn't change
and just went, oh well, I can,you know, do a little bit more
than this, or I can you know,move on from this relationship
or whatever those things are.
I can stay sober.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, you know, and forgiveness is such a powerful
thread and it felt like it wasthe underlying heartbeat in this
story and it was a quiet, butit was a quiet, powerful
reminder that healing takes time.
And what really struck me washow differently each character
approached forgiveness.
(38:06):
Some leaned in, you know, oneleaned in, one resisted and one
took her time.
And I think that that's such animportant lesson Forgiveness is
a choice and there's no onetimeline.
Each of the sisters wrestledwith their unresolved anger and
emotions.
What did you want readers totake away about the power and
(38:28):
the challenge of forgivenesswhen it comes to family wounds?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Well, first of all, I want people to take away that
they forgive themselves also,because forgiving their parent
is one thing that's almostoutside of you.
You know it's like over hereand you're trying to go and
forgive them over here and haveall those emotions needed to
forgive themselves because oncethey realized why they made
(38:56):
these choices, they needed tosay oh well, I made these
choices not necessarily becauseI just made the choice.
I made it based on a past thatwasn't necessarily true, so I
need to forgive myself formaking bad choices also besides
forgiving their mother.
So I wanted to make that reallyclear inside of them that they
(39:18):
also need to go through thisprocess to forgive themselves
for not standing up to somethingor whatever that was.
Because that was based.
I mean, they were very, veryyoung when their mothers started
all this, so they weren'tdeveloped enough, you know, to
make any real big choices, sothey didn't realize why they
were making these choices.
(39:39):
And that's what I thought Iwanted to do mostly was make
people realize that somethingover here can make you do
something over here that youdon't realize why you're doing
it, but it's based on somethingelse, and so they needed to
forgive themselves and forgiveher for making these decisions
and realizing that she did itfor them yes, and you also
(40:03):
explore, like how the pain, the,the, the self-forgiveness that
they had to work on, how thatmanifested in other ways like
addiction, substance use, likerelationships, control, and so
can you talk about how you wovethe self-forgiveness and
different forms of coping intothis story and what you hope
(40:24):
readers take from that?
Well, everybody copesdifferently.
So that's why I wanted thethree sisters to be pretty
different similar in some ways,but pretty different and watch
the way they cope.
And watch, like you said before, that Morgan almost falls off
the wagon and the sisters saveher.
And you know just like Morgan'scoping is alcohol and I'm sure
(40:48):
that a lot of people who arealcoholics would go there would
say like, well God, everything'sup in the air, why don't I just
take this?
What's the point in doing it?
And in Charlie's case, hercoping was just to kind of stay
with the same person and justmake her life as comfortable as
possible without taking.
None of the women really took alot of risks, if you really look
(41:11):
at it, even though, becauseMorgan hid behind alcohol,
charlie took no risks, abby tookno risks, she kind of married
the guy and had the kids andkind of stayed in that little
place.
So I want readers to see acouple of things.
I want them to realize they'renot alone in whatever their
feelings are, whether theydiscover a big family secret I
mean, I'm sure that doesn'thappen every day, but there are
(41:32):
little things in our life thathappen every day and so I want
readers to really, for all mybooks, I always want readers to
see that they're not alone, thatthings happen that they can
relate to and say, oh, wow, likeyou said, you related a little
bit to each one of them.
If a reader can find anybody inthe book that they relate to,
that makes me so happy.
(41:54):
And I've gotten some emails andthings from people that said you
know, my parents actuallykilled themselves and this.
I didn't know if anybody wouldread it if that was the case,
but I had people say thank youso much because this actually
helped me watch them go throughthe journey to figure all this
out.
Wow, that's really that made mefeel so good, because you know,
(42:19):
you don't know if somebody'sgoing to read it and go oh my
God, I can't believe you wrotethis or you know, you never know
and the people have been sogreat and said really nice
things and related to a lot ofthe women.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, I've had a lot of those different not suicide
but I've had a lot of the themesthat we talked about in the
lessons that we talked abouttoday.
I've had a lot of the themesthat we talked about in the
lessons that we talked abouttoday.
I've had a lot of those thingshappen in my life and sometimes
I can't go there in a bookbecause it's too hard, but this
was written in a way that wasvery inviting and it was okay to
(42:50):
come out on the other side.
It really was.
It was really well done.
One of the things that I alsosaw in myself was that they all
stayed stuck.
You know, they just stayedstuck and they stayed stuck for
too long Because they didn'tmake risks.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
They didn't take risks, and neither did their
mother.
They learned that.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yes, but I loved that journey and how they figured
out how to get unstuck.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
They weren't really living their lives in a lot of
ways and, same as their mother,carla, wasn't living her life,
and they sort of picked all ofthat up, even if they didn't
realize it.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Right.
Are there any themes in thebook that we haven't covered
that you want our listeners toknow?
Speaker 2 (43:38):
I think you covered them all.
I think you did an amazing job.
You pulled out stuff.
This escape room I never cameup with.
When you said that I was likeoh wow, that never occurred to
me.
I just like thought of theplace and thought, oh, that
would be kind of an interestingplace to do a scene in.
But when you said that aboutescape, I thought, wow, that
really hit me.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
They were living the life that the end, that little
scene was actually the entirebook in like a couple paragraphs
.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Which I never realized till you said it.
See, that's what I love is likea reader tells you something.
I've had readers say thingsabout my book that I know I
didn't intend.
But when they say it's there, Isee it and I think, wow, where
did that come from?
Because it wasn't something inmy mind.
So I love that you said that.
That just made me so happy.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
That's so cool?
Yeah, because you know they askquestions which led them to
another, which they broke free,this, and then they had to go to
another level of their life andthen they get out on the other
side.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
That's true, you're right, it is.
It's so funny that I didn'teven think of it the way you saw
that that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
How can listeners get a hold of you?
And I got my book on Amazon andI saw your other books.
I already started another onebut yeah, how can they get a
hold of you or read your books?
Speaker 2 (45:04):
My books are available everywhere, but, yes,
amazon has them.
They can go to my website.
It's lesliearasmussencom, and Ialso have signed books on there
too that they can buy.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh, I might have to do that.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
And then I'm on Instagram at LeslieROthor, I'm
on Facebook atLeslieARasmussenAuthor, I'm on
LinkedIn I'm pretty mucheverywhere.
Also, the audio book of whenPeople Leave will be out next
month.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Okay, well, that's great.
Well, thank you, leslie, forbeing on the show.
When People Leave, a Story ofLove Lies and Finding the Truth
isn't just a novel.
It's a mirror, a reminder thatbehind every perfect family
photo is a layered story ofsurvival, silence and sometimes
(45:55):
secrets that we're still tryingto understand To our listeners.
If you've ever felt like yourfamily's story was too
complicated to talk about,you're not alone.
And if grief ever left youasking questions with no answers
, you're not broken.
And if you've ever wonderedwhether healing was possible
after the truth comes out, thisstory proves that it is.
(46:16):
This is a novel that relates tous all and it has so many
lessons that we can take from it.
When change becomes what weneed, lean into it.
Allow the hard work so you canstep into growth.
Invite transformation and letyourself evolve.
Own the shift.
Let it become the catalyst.
Get Leslie's book and her othertwo novels After Happily Ever
(46:40):
After and the Stories we CannotTell.
Thank you for being a part ofthis journey with us.
Share this episode with someonewho needs it.
Remember there is purpose inthe pain and hope in the journey
.
Subscribe to Real Talk withTina and Anne and we will see
you next time.
World changers aren't pleasingeverybody.
(47:08):
They're just not Next time.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne, and today we havethe very talented Leslie
Rasmussen, a woman whose wordshave lit up both television
screens and bookshelves.
She was born and raised in LosAngeles and is a proud UCLA grad
who went on to write for someof the funniest names in show
(00:44):
business Burt Reynolds, roseanneBarr, norm MacDonald and Drew
Carey, just to name a few which,by the way, is very impressive.
I thought that that was reallycool.
Her writing credits stretch fromhit sitcoms to beloved shows
like the Wild Thornberries andSweet Valley High, and it
doesn't stop there.
She's been published more than20 times in the Huffington Post,
(01:04):
and she speaks on panels aboutfemale empowerment and is a
proud member of the WritersGuild of America and Women in
Film.
Leslie is an award-winningnovelist with titles like After
Happily Ever After and theStories we Cannot Tell, both of
which earned her well-deservedpraise.
But today we're diving into hernewest novel, when People Leave
(01:26):
, love Lies and Finding theTruth, a book that took me on a
ride that I did not want to getoff.
So thank you so much for beinghere.
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Thank you so much for having me, Anne.
Speaker 1 (01:37):
This is great I found myself completely immersed in
the emotional unraveling of thisbeautifully broken family.
The heartbreak was real, thesecrets were raw and the
journeys of these threedaughters was deeply human and
profoundly relatable.
Each sister brought somethingdifferent to the story.
(02:00):
There was grief, resilience,regret and hope, and I felt like
I was sitting in that housewith them, sifting through
memories and truths that theynever knew they needed to face.
Speaker 2 (02:13):
Well, thank you, that's great.
That's what I wanted.
Speaker 1 (02:17):
Yeah, what struck me the most was how loss revealed
so much of their own unhealed,conditioned responses, and how
important it is to embrace everypart of the journey, no matter
how hard, so we can evolve andbecome a better version of
ourselves and become differentthan the dysfunction that raised
(02:40):
us.
The story is about more thansaying goodbye.
It's about saying hello to thepoints of ourselves that we've
buried for too long.
It's about how love can changeas we evolve and grow and, most
of all, it's a powerful reminderthat sometimes the truth
doesn't destroy.
It sets us free.
So I would like to start with.
(03:01):
You know, this storyencapsulates so many of us and
there were so many strong themesthat wove through this novel,
things that we talk about onthis podcast all the time.
And I would like to start withthe quote that you etched in the
beginning of your book whenthere's a breakdown in the
family, it's the ones that loveyou the most that hurt you the
(03:22):
deepest.
Anyway, how does this quotereflect the heartbeat of your
story?
Speaker 2 (03:30):
Well, it's so true that, I mean, in marriages and
relationships, you kind ofbecome vulnerable and you give
yourself to somebody and whenyou do that, that's the person
that can actually hurt you themost.
And people shock you I meanincluding your parents, and in
this story that's kind of whathappens.
But the love that you have forsomebody makes them able to hurt
(03:57):
you deeply.
But you still have to love.
I mean, you can't go throughlife without loving.
So you kind of take that in andsay, well, I know that if I
really love this person, theycan hurt me and you take that
risk.
Speaker 1 (04:13):
Yeah, absolutely.
I've always said you know, ifyou can be hurt deeply, then you
have loved deeply.
It's just part of life, andthese sisters really went
through it.
I mean, one of the things thatI absolutely love about your
book is how you don't shy awayfrom anything.
There is loss, there is suicide, there is addiction, there's
identity, there's trauma, mentalhealth, family lies I mean it
(04:34):
is all there, woven into thisstory in a way that feels so
human, and you explore how painshapes us both as individuals
and as a family unit, and youask the kind of quiet, powerful
questions that most of us haveasked ourselves at some point
and lots of times don't evenwant to talk about it.
But one of the most grippingthreads is family secrets.
(04:57):
So often parents think thatthey're protecting their
children by hiding painfultruths, but these secrets end up
shaping a child's identity andin your book this theme runs so
deep.
Can you talk about how youapproach writing about family
secrets and why they matter andhow they shape us?
Speaker 2 (05:17):
Sure, you know, I didn't know about any major
family secrets in my life, butthere were little things that as
an adult came out that I saidlike what, what are you talking
about?
I'd never heard that and Irealized when I started to think
about it those secrets canaffect you, even if you don't
know what those secrets are,which I thought was fascinating.
(05:38):
I mean, in these sisters' livesI'm not going into the major
secrets, but they're all dealingwith abandonment and they don't
know that the decisions thatthey have made in their lives
are because of that.
And so they turn out into thesepeople as they become adults.
(05:59):
They're all in their 30s andthey realize later on they
realize, oh my God, I madedecisions in my life that just
seem like decisions, but theyactually were based on a past
that they didn't even know aboutExactly.
So I thought that was a reallyinteresting thing and I also.
I had both my parents, so Iwasn't abandoned.
(06:20):
But I also know a lot of peoplethat were in the foster care
system and when I talked to,especially a very close friend
of mine, and when I talked toher about the foster care system
, she had parents.
They put her in the foster caresystem because they just didn't
want to deal with her when shewas like 10.
And it turned out in the end tobe a better place for her.
(06:42):
I mean, she ended up in a goodplace and somebody who took her
in and helped her get to college.
But during all that time shehas tremendous abandonment
issues, and so I was thinking alot about that when I wrote this
book.
And the sisters all do havedifferent things.
The oldest is a sober alcoholic, the middle one is in a
(07:03):
relationship that should haveended a long time ago but she
just doesn't end it.
And the youngest one basicallyfollowed her mother, where she
married very, very young.
But she also married somebodythe only person she ever dated
and she gave up her career andshe had four kids very quickly
(07:27):
up her career and she had fourkids very quickly, and so she
followed her mother.
But she's also sort of thinkinglike, well, is this the life
I'm going to lead forever?
You know, things do come up.
I mean, we know we havechildren.
I mean, at a certain point itcomes up to you where you think
well, now what, what am I goingto do?
Is this where I'm going to go?
Is this what I'm going to do?
I gave up something.
In my case, I gave up sitcomwriting to raise my kids, which
(07:48):
I'm very happy I did, but I'vealways missed it.
So there's that loss also ofthe life you had before, and you
know there's a lot of loss inthis in different ways.
Oh, there is, but I was veryconcerned about making sure
there was a lot of lightness inthe book.
So I have two sisters and Iwanted to write a book about
(08:11):
sisters for a long time, but Ididn't want my sisters to think
that they were anything likethese women.
So they're none of us.
They're so different.
None of us have any of theseissues or anything, but I loved
the dialogue between my sistersand I and how we get along.
And siblings.
I think siblings have a lot toshow each other, to teach each
(08:31):
other.
Speaker 1 (08:32):
And.
Speaker 2 (08:33):
I think siblings also have funny relationships.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
Yeah, I love their dynamics.
It was a very fun part of thebook watching them interact with
each other and that's sointeresting because you did pull
it from different parts of yourlife.
Even though it wasn't your life, you took it from others around
you and I was adopted, my kidswere adopted, and I very much
understood the abandonment partof it.
(08:57):
Within that woke that wasweaving throughout your book and
I actually loved it because,even though you didn't live it,
you portrayed it very well.
Speaker 2 (09:08):
Thank you.
I did do research and talkingto people.
I have a friend who's in AA andshe's sober and I talked to her
a lot and so I knew a lot aboutAA that I could weave in there
and how she felt.
But yes, I do take from my lifeall the time, but it's not
necessarily, you know, from mylife as people.
(09:29):
It's some of the dialogue, someof the stuff that comes from my
childhood, the conversationswith the sisters like over the
salads, who likes what and whodoesn't like what, and they all
think somebody else likessomething.
That's all from my childhood.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yeah.
Well, when the story wasunraveling, the three women who
we said are sisters, theydiscover that basically their
entire lives were a lie, whichyou touched on.
But what I loved is that, nomatter how deep the lies got,
that it left room for them toheal together.
And so can you talk about notjust the relationships that you
(10:07):
touched on, but how they worktogether through this journey.
Speaker 2 (10:12):
Well, the one thing I also wanted to make sure was
they work together, but theydidn't, because grief is so all
over the place.
So sometimes one sister's angryand one sister's sad, and
sometimes they're all sad, andsometimes they're all like
what's going on?
Because I kept thinking well, Ilost my father nine years ago
and I lost him, you know, formedical reasons, so it wasn't
(10:35):
suicide, but I was angry at himfor leaving.
So, even though it wasn't hisfault, I was still had an anger
in me that was like why did youleave me?
Why did you go?
And I was also very sad.
And so I think that they're intheir case.
(10:55):
Because of the way the motherthey think everything's great
and she takes her own life.
They do have an anger like whycouldn't you tell us what's
going on?
Were you depressed?
You weren't depressed at all.
We never saw anything.
So why did this happen?
And the other reason that Iwrote the book was, um, both my
husband and I were in comedy andtelevision and we knew somebody
(11:18):
who was working on a show,running the show.
We thought, and all of a suddenwe found out that he killed
himself and it was, I'm sure hisfamily knew why.
We didn't find out till muchlater that he actually was very
depressed.
But you wouldn't see thatbecause he would go into a room
and I saw him not that muchbefore he died.
(11:41):
I saw him at a restaurant.
I was like hey, guys, hi, youknow he was one of those very
kind of outgoing people, wow.
So you just thought he was andhe was a comedy writer, so you
just thought he was funny and onall the time.
And so it shocked me and he'snot the only person that we knew
that did that.
(12:01):
So that was part of it, and partof it was also when Robin
Williams killed himself.
You know the world didn't knowuntil later that he had Lewy
body dementia and he was goingthrough all these things and in
his mind he was no longer RobinWilliams.
So my first book deals withthat a lot, because I did a lot
of research with.
(12:22):
I did some seminars that RobinWilliams' wife did and learned a
lot about it, about leaky bodydementia and how people don't
know they have it.
So it was all combined intothat too.
I just thought, wow, the worldhad no clue that he was going
through anything.
So that's kind of where thissort of kind of came together.
(12:43):
Wow.
Speaker 1 (12:47):
Oh my gosh, and I think that and that's so sad
that you didn't even know thatyour friend was sad, this comedy
writer didn't even know andthere were no signs.
No signs, and that's you know,because you always know about
the ones that are droppinglittle seeds along the way and
(13:08):
you pay attention to that, butif you have no clue, I mean
that's scary.
Speaker 2 (13:14):
And that's why in that scene later on, when Abby
says that Morgan gave her thenecklace, she never knew why.
Because a lot of people beforethey commit suicide and you may
not know this like not see ithappening, but they start to
give things away.
Speaker 1 (13:31):
Right, yeah, yeah.
Well, that is a really deeplesson theme throughout your
book of paying attention to eachother and what was going on
with each of the characters, forthem to pick up what was much
pain that is left behind by ourparents.
Often what we do is, you know,we take on that shame that is
(13:53):
passed down, and then we blameourselves and question if there
were things about us that causedus, you know, caused our
(14:14):
parents to make the decisionsthat they made, caused our
parents to make the decisionsthat they made.
So then they, you know, you,sit around and you wonder did I
do something?
Was part of what happened, partof what you know?
Did I have anything to do withthat?
Speaker 2 (14:28):
Yeah, the sisters go through that too, because in
their mind their mother was fineand they cannot figure out why
she would do this.
So, yeah, they start to saycannot figure out why she would
do this.
So, yeah, they start to say,well, did I do something?
Was it that one time I forgotto call her and she got so upset
that I didn't call her?
That she, I mean even stuffthat doesn't really make sense,
(14:48):
like you know, your parents notgoing to take their own life
because you didn't call for aweek or two, but those things
come into your mind and theguilt and the shame and the you
know, just the blame that theykind of go through and it took
them through the book theyfigure out.
Well, it really wasn't theirfault at all, but it takes a
little time to kind of come tothat realization.
Speaker 1 (15:11):
Yeah, the three sisters do so well at crafting
their new narratives, which theycontinually had to do.
They just kept rewritingthemselves after realizing their
past wasn't who they reallywere.
Can you talk more about that,because it was so intriguing?
Speaker 2 (15:31):
Oh, thank you.
I tried to figure out how to doit without giving away spoilers
, but I think as the time goeson and they discover different
things that were held from themthat they never knew, they start
to look at their own lives.
And once they look at their ownlives, they realize that things
they did well, this isn'tserving me anymore.
(15:51):
And why was I doing this?
Why did I stay in thisrelationship?
Why didn't I find somethingoutside of my kids to also fuel
me?
And so they start to not likethey react to all of these
things that happen to them bylooking at into deeply and
introspectively into their ownlives and to see how things can
(16:14):
change for them.
And it takes them a while tochange, but they also do really
start to, for the first time,really start to look at it and
figure it out.
Speaker 1 (16:24):
Yes, yeah.
Their evolution all three ofthem and together was such a
beautiful part of the story, andone of the most powerful
threads in the book is how eachof them tried to break free from
their parents' patterns.
Abby, probably, but they eachall had parts of them wanting to
(16:47):
be anything but them.
They didn't want to be anythinglike their parents, and yet, as
the story unfolds, we see howdeeply those inherited stories
live within them, evenunconsciously.
How did you approach writingthe tensions between wanting to
be different from their parentsbut still carrying pieces of
(17:08):
them?
Speaker 2 (17:10):
Oh, that was hard, because that's partially why
Carla's backstory is in there.
So, you can see things thathappened to Carla that that also
would kind of explain certainthings with the girls and they
(17:31):
loved their mother.
They had a great relationshipand the things that they knew
about their mother they reallyliked about themselves.
They were all.
They all had pieces of her inthem.
It was when they found out allthis other stuff that they
didn't really rebel against itbut they started to kind of go
(17:51):
well that their mother did thebest she could.
I mean, most parents do, we alldo the best we can with our
kids and we all make mistakes.
This mother made more mistakesthan some parents, but the girls
(18:11):
I think they never would havestopped loving her, no matter
what.
And that sticks with them.
So even when they realize thatthey've made decisions based on
something their mother did, theystill want to keep, I think,
the pieces of her that theyloved, the things she did for
them as a parent and she was funand fun to be with and all
(18:36):
those kinds of things.
Speaker 1 (18:38):
Yeah, yeah, I really loved that.
I loved how, once they wereback in their childhood home to
the sisters, slipped into theirold ways.
I mean you know how many timesit took me back.
You know how many times we werestanding across from somebody
who are there from our childhoodand we regress, right, I mean
(19:02):
that can happen.
So what I loved is that whenthey went back to who they once
were you know they lived in thathouse, they slept in their own
rooms that they started tobecome those people again and
the bickering and the bondingand all that stuff that you kind
of touched on a little bit ago.
But because we so often, youknow, when we get into
(19:24):
situations like that, I think itcreates a different healing, a
different layered of healing.
Do you think that returning totheir younger selves helped them
find a different kind ofclosure, or more of a closure?
Speaker 2 (19:36):
Yes, partially because they all moved to
different places so they wereclose, but it really through.
You know they visited eachother.
It's not the same as when youlive in the same house with your
parent and you know you sharerooms sometimes or you, you know
you see each other every singleday and in school.
And those sisters did.
(19:56):
Once they got back in thathouse and back, like to their
old rooms, which hadn't changedthat much, the two other rooms
and they did start to almostrevert, not having fights but
arguments over some of the samestuff that they would have had
arguments over when they werekids.
And I think it's very normal togo back to your parents' house.
My parents moved from theirhouse but for years they lived
(20:20):
in the same house I grew up inand we would walk back in and
even though my bedroom lookedcompletely different and the den
looked different, I would walkin and feel this warmth and this
comfort of being there.
And my sisters and I are alwaysthe same like that too.
Now we don't have the house togo to, but when we get together
(20:41):
we are just in some ways like wewere back then.
We have a total bond, we havethe same memories and a lot of
things, things that made us likedislike each other, so to speak
, at the time, you know, stillcome up as like, oh my God, I
remember when you did that I wasso mad at you, but it's fun now
and I love that bond that thesisters have where they kind of
(21:03):
do that.
And the one thing that wasreally important to me in the
book which I kept re-editingbecause I wanted to make sure
that whoever read it understoodthat they love each other, that
they're not just picking at eachother, that they have this bond
with each other, that there'strue love, like in a
relationship.
If you say something to yourhusband, wife, whoever, and you
(21:27):
say something kind of snotty andthey go well, that wasn't very
nice and you're like, oh yeah,you're right, you know what I
mean, that you can come backfrom it and siblings, I think,
have that bond where mostsiblings I can't say all
siblings, because I'm sure thereare siblings that don't get
along, but siblings who aretruly bonded together I think
they do have that where you cansay something to somebody and
(21:50):
they can apologize and you kindof let it go where you might not
do that with a friend.
Speaker 1 (21:54):
Right, yeah, well, you definitely saw that in the
book.
I got that no-transcript thinkit's giving too much away but
(22:29):
Charlie was in an escape roomand really all of them had their
own in their own reality.
They were trying to escape fromsomething and they all needed
to answer those life-alteringquestions in order to figure out
the next stage of their journey, which would then lead them to
(22:50):
the next set of questions.
So they were seeking to findtheir way out of this locked
past which they didn't even knowthat they had.
And I mean, I think one of theworst things that can happen to
any of us is to find out thatyour entire life was a lie and
your parents were not who youthought that they were.
(23:13):
So one of my favorite questionsin the book and I have asked
this question myself how can Igrieve you when all I feel right
now is anger?
That's a good one.
That's so tough.
Tell me about this question.
Speaker 2 (23:32):
Well, the way their mother did it and when they
found out all these things ofcourse they're going to go to
anger it's like well, wait aminute, who are we?
We don't even know who we are,and we don't know who you are
and what of everything.
We know what is true and whatisn't.
They had no idea, really, whotheir parents were.
The first thing you wouldreally feel, before you felt sad
(23:55):
, was what the heck Like?
What did you do to us?
We are in our 30s and we don'teven know who we are.
We don't know our life and whatdo we trust?
What do we trust about anythingthat's ever happened in our
entire lives?
Speaker 1 (24:09):
Yeah, because their mom lied about everything.
She lied about everything andshe never.
She was a good actress, but sheloved them.
She lied about everything andshe never.
Speaker 2 (24:18):
she was a good actress, but she loved them.
She lied about everything butloving them.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yes and see that's.
The thing is that we never know, as parents, what we will do
when we want to protect our kids.
How far will we go or whatsecrets will we tell to protect
what we have?
That was an interesting take onall of this, what did you think
Carla the mom did?
(24:42):
And the decisions, what did youthink about her decisions that
she made as a mom?
Speaker 2 (24:48):
I think for her.
She told herself she was doingthe best possible thing for
everybody and I think once she Ithink at the beginning it's the
best possible thing foreverybody.
And I think once she, I thinkat the beginning it's the best
possible thing for her.
But I think that as time goeson, she says I'm protecting my
kids, so it's in her head thatshe is actually taking care of
everybody and making their livesbetter, and I think she lives
(25:12):
with that forever.
I think she has to go into adenial that she's denied them of
anything, because if shedoesn't, then she will have the
shame and the guilt and I thinkshe almost creates her new past
for herself and she almostbelieves it.
She gets to that point whenthere's a point where she can't
believe it anymore.
But she gets to a point whereshe really believes and she
(25:36):
thinks this is our life, ourlife is fine.
My girls are fine.
They grew up, they're livingtheir lives, they're doing what
they need to do and I'veprotected them from, you know,
the scary things of the world.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
Yeah, I don't think that she ever thought that
anybody would find out.
I mean, they definitely hadreached a stage in their life
where that shouldn't have evenhappened.
Speaker 2 (25:55):
Right.
But you know, somethinghappened.
She was very private.
She made sure that nobody everfound out.
I mean, she wasn't on socialmedia, she was very private and
she didn't tell people things.
So she created this other lifeand this other past for herself
of things she made up.
Speaker 1 (26:10):
Yeah, and she definitely wanted to be
different from her parents, andshe was.
Speaker 2 (26:14):
She was.
Speaker 1 (26:15):
I mean, she did everything different than her
mom and she showed up for herkids.
She was there all the time.
She was there for everything,yeah, yeah, and she deeply loved
them.
And I don't think that herlives, her lies, stemmed from
anything but fear.
Maybe and that's how it felt tome is that she had such a huge
(26:36):
fear and a protection over herfamily that she was willing to
do whatever it took.
Speaker 2 (26:41):
And also because of her past and things that
happened in her past.
She got very scared wheneverything happened, and so
that's why she had to do whatshe did Right.
Speaker 1 (26:54):
I mean, trust is huge and you raise a really good
question how will I ever trustanyone again when my own mother
lied about the most importantthings?
And I mean I say all the time,how are we supposed to trust
when the ones who are supposedto be protecting us are the ones
who are hurting us, even if shedidn't mean to, but she did?
(27:14):
And how can we trust what wesee?
How can we believe what peoplehave told us?
So I mean it brings a crazymaking.
So talk about betrayal.
Speaker 2 (27:26):
Well, in this book there's a lot of betrayal.
You know they don't realize itat the beginning, but there's a
lot of betrayal and I think whatyou just said is if somebody
does that to you, how do youtrust not just like your parents
, I mean, and your life, butanybody else in your life?
I mean you go back to the peoplein your life and you think if
(27:47):
there's a man in your life youknow, you think, is that person
you know treating me right?
Are they lying to me?
Are they cheating on me?
What are they doing?
And even friends, I meaneverything, and in Morgan's case
I mean alcohol, you know.
I mean that was sort of it kindof betrayed her in some ways
because it got her involved andthen she had to give it up.
So there's a lot of differenttypes of betrayal in this book.
(28:11):
In Abby's case, I think shefeels not I mean, she loves her
kids more than anything, but Ithink she feels betrayed in some
ways that she got pregnant sofast, you know, because she
didn't get to do her dream.
So that's kind of a betrayal ofnature, or however you want to
put it.
So there is a lot of other waysthat they're betrayed in their
(28:33):
lives besides finding out thattheir mother betrayed them.
Speaker 1 (28:37):
Yes.
And then, on the flip side ofthat, we have the person who was
carrying the weight of the lies, and as a reader, it was
powerful to watch Carla.
You know the character who wasnavigating the consequences of
her own deception, trying tokeep up with the story that she
built, while we in hindsightcould see how each cover-up and
(28:59):
decision slowly steered hertowards this heartbreaking
outcome.
And so what was it like towrite a character balancing that
kind of inner conflict?
Speaker 2 (29:13):
Well, I almost felt sorry for her the whole time,
even though she had done this toher daughters, because I knew
why she did it.
But I felt sorry for herbecause to carry a secret like
that and to go into another lifeand not be able to tell anybody
, I mean you are keeping such abig thing and there's nobody
else that you can really tellall these secrets to, and you're
(29:36):
closest to your daughters andyou're keeping a very private
life.
Even with the friends she had,she kept everything at a
distance.
So if you're living your lifelike that, you don't get close
to anybody and you can only getso close to your daughters
because you're lying to them soyou can love them and you can be
part of their lives, but youcan't let them know who you
(29:58):
really are.
So I kind of, when I was writingit, I was trying to do it with
empathy and compassion for herand everything she was going
through also, and I didn't wanther to be the bad guy, because
really she's not.
She made bad decisions, butshe's not a bad person in any
way, shape or form and she'sreally actually a good person
(30:19):
who did all this, and sometimesdecisions are made from people
and it doesn't make them badpeople, it just makes them bad
decisions, and they can have thebest reason in the world for
making these decisions, but thatdoesn't mean they're good
decisions.
And so I kind of just keptlooking at her character and
(30:39):
building her past to make sensewhy certain things had happened
and why she had made certaindecisions, and mostly just felt
compassionate for her.
Speaker 1 (30:50):
Yeah, I did too.
You did a great job in writingthat, because I think a reader
could have looked at thatdifferently and said you know,
she, oh, look at all thesethings that she did to her
family.
This is really horrible.
But the same time that thestory was unfolding and that you
were finding out more and morewhat the lies that she had told
(31:10):
and why you really felt for her.
You know, I felt compassion forher.
I felt so many things for her.
I was mad that she made thedecisions that she made in the
moment.
But I can also see why she leftthis area because, you know,
she was afraid.
I could see why she felt thatshe had to take her family with
(31:32):
her and why she created what shedid.
It really makes sense to me,and I don't know.
I asked myself would I havedone that if I was in the same
situation?
I mean, it brought me to thatquestion with my own kids.
I don't know what we would doif we are in that situation.
Speaker 2 (31:50):
I don't either, because as parents, we think
well, we would protect our kidsno matter what.
Speaker 1 (31:54):
I think that trumps everything.
Speaker 2 (31:57):
Yeah, but it's still scary.
And what she did was scary.
I mean, it's not like she didsomething like, yay, I'm going,
I'm doing this.
You know, she was terrified andscared about everything she did
.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
And she did finally let somebody in.
She had that one friend fromthe real estate and she, you
know, in a drinking moment shetold her some things and you
know I was glad that she hadthat and I was glad that they
found and I loved how their path, her kids' paths, led her to
this woman where some of thosethings were answered for her,
(32:28):
which started the whole entireinvestigation, which I thought
was really great.
But I'm glad that it unfoldedthe way that it did.
So she did let that person in.
She kept so many people awaybut she let that one person in
and they found her and I thoughtthat was great.
Speaker 2 (32:45):
Yeah, no, I, I, the girls knew who she was because
they knew their best friend inyou know where they were in Los
Angeles.
But I needed somebody to givethem some information also.
So I thought if Carla has givensomething not a lot, but
something to this woman, then atleast she can relay something
(33:06):
to kind of send them on a path.
Speaker 1 (33:08):
You asked the question, and this one hit me
pretty hard too how do youforgive a dead person?
I mean, I've asked thatquestion because there is
somebody in my life who, youknow, made a lot of really bad
choices and they're no longerhere.
So how do you forgive a deadperson?
Speaker 2 (33:26):
I think it's very individual and I think that it's
something that it's actuallyfor you to forgive.
It's obviously not, you know,has nothing to do with them at
that point, right, but I thinkit's really a process.
I think it takes a long time.
I think as you go through timeyou start to remember the good
things.
If this person did have goodthings.
(33:48):
I think there are people thatcannot be forgiven.
I'm sure there are millions ofpeople out there that you know
you would never forgive, butsomebody like Carla, I think
they could forgive her becausethey knew all the other things
that she did for them and howmuch she loved them and how much
she was there for them.
And so the initial thing is I'mnever going to forgive you.
I can't believe you did this tome, but they all acknowledge
(34:11):
that they obviously loved her somuch that they would have
gotten through that.
They would have worked throughit, whether it was in therapy or
with you know, their partnersor whoever but they would have
worked through it and come outon the other end where they
started to see all the goodmemories and not just what she
did.
Speaker 1 (34:30):
And without giving too much away.
I do want to ask you thisquestion and I have quite a.
I have a few more questionsafter this, but I really needed
to ask you this question and Ihave quite a.
I have a few more questionsafter this, but I really needed
to ask you.
Who were you more like withoutand people are going to have to
read the book for them to knowthis what to understand your
answer but were you more likeMorgan, charlie or Abby?
Speaker 2 (34:52):
Oh, wow, probably, if I had to pick one, probably
Abby, only because I gave upsomething that I really loved to
go be with my kids.
So that's the only thing.
Like I said before, because ofhaving sisters and I did not
want this book to have anythingto do with any of us, including
(35:15):
myself book to have anything todo with any of us, including
myself, so I think it'd probablybe Abby, just because I've
always sort of mourned my oldcareer and even though I love
what I'm doing now, I stillworking in television was just
such a blast for me and I reallyenjoyed it.
So I think that's why I talkabout grief.
I think there's different griefat different points of your
life.
(35:35):
Whether or not it's a persondying, it could easily be just
giving up a job and learning,like at first you're like angry,
like why can't I do that?
And then it's like okay, butI'm choosing to do this for my
kids who need me.
I'm making the decision to givethat up.
So it's a process, but there isalso anger and sadness and
something like that too.
Speaker 1 (35:56):
Yeah, too, gave up some work in order to be home
with my kids that I got.
And then COVID happened and Ihave an immunodeficient kid and
you know, pivot, pivot, pivot.
You know that's what we do andwe figure it out.
But I think that I took, Ithink I related a little bit
with each of them.
I think that there was a pieceof me that related with each of
(36:19):
them in a different way, so andit was very relatable, as I with
all of them and even with Carlabeing the mom and the decisions
that she made.
So, but every page was verylife changing for the girls with
a different problem and theyhad to work through together,
like we said, kind of, and theyreally had to figure out how to
(36:41):
move on past nonstop devastatingnews and loss.
And I love the constantevolution of self, I love the
resilience.
This was such a perfect exampleof how, no matter how hard
things get, that we can sustainand come out stronger.
Was that something that youwere going with this?
Speaker 2 (37:00):
Yes, I wanted to make sure at the end of the book
when I went back that all thesewomen they changed, but they
changed for the better and theyfigured out what was the best
thing for them, and not I didn'twant characters that didn't
change and just went oh well,I'm angry or whatever.
(37:32):
And not, I didn't wantcharacters that didn't change
and just went, oh well, I can,you know, do a little bit more
than this, or I can you know,move on from this relationship
or whatever those things are.
I can stay sober.
Speaker 1 (37:46):
Yeah, you know, and forgiveness is such a powerful
thread and it felt like it wasthe underlying heartbeat in this
story and it was a quiet, butit was a quiet, powerful
reminder that healing takes time.
And what really struck me washow differently each character
approached forgiveness.
(38:06):
Some leaned in, you know, oneleaned in, one resisted and one
took her time.
And I think that that's such animportant lesson Forgiveness is
a choice and there's no onetimeline.
Each of the sisters wrestledwith their unresolved anger and
emotions.
What did you want readers totake away about the power and
(38:28):
the challenge of forgivenesswhen it comes to family wounds?
Speaker 2 (38:33):
Well, first of all, I want people to take away that
they forgive themselves also,because forgiving their parent
is one thing that's almostoutside of you.
You know it's like over hereand you're trying to go and
forgive them over here and haveall those emotions needed to
forgive themselves because oncethey realized why they made
(38:56):
these choices, they needed tosay oh well, I made these
choices not necessarily becauseI just made the choice.
I made it based on a past thatwasn't necessarily true, so I
need to forgive myself formaking bad choices also besides
forgiving their mother.
So I wanted to make that reallyclear inside of them that they
(39:18):
also need to go through thisprocess to forgive themselves
for not standing up to somethingor whatever that was.
Because that was based.
I mean, they were very, veryyoung when their mothers started
all this, so they weren'tdeveloped enough, you know, to
make any real big choices, sothey didn't realize why they
were making these choices.
(39:39):
And that's what I thought Iwanted to do mostly was make
people realize that somethingover here can make you do
something over here that youdon't realize why you're doing
it, but it's based on somethingelse, and so they needed to
forgive themselves and forgiveher for making these decisions
and realizing that she did itfor them yes, and you also
(40:03):
explore, like how the pain, the,the, the self-forgiveness that
they had to work on, how thatmanifested in other ways like
addiction, substance use, likerelationships, control, and so
can you talk about how you wovethe self-forgiveness and
different forms of coping intothis story and what you hope
(40:24):
readers take from that?
Well, everybody copesdifferently.
So that's why I wanted thethree sisters to be pretty
different similar in some ways,but pretty different and watch
the way they cope.
And watch, like you said before, that Morgan almost falls off
the wagon and the sisters saveher.
And you know just like Morgan'scoping is alcohol and I'm sure
(40:48):
that a lot of people who arealcoholics would go there would
say like, well God, everything'sup in the air, why don't I just
take this?
What's the point in doing it?
And in Charlie's case, hercoping was just to kind of stay
with the same person and justmake her life as comfortable as
possible without taking.
None of the women really took alot of risks, if you really look
(41:11):
at it, even though, becauseMorgan hid behind alcohol,
charlie took no risks, abby tookno risks, she kind of married
the guy and had the kids andkind of stayed in that little
place.
So I want readers to see acouple of things.
I want them to realize they'renot alone in whatever their
feelings are, whether theydiscover a big family secret I
mean, I'm sure that doesn'thappen every day, but there are
(41:32):
little things in our life thathappen every day and so I want
readers to really, for all mybooks, I always want readers to
see that they're not alone, thatthings happen that they can
relate to and say, oh, wow, likeyou said, you related a little
bit to each one of them.
If a reader can find anybody inthe book that they relate to,
that makes me so happy.
(41:54):
And I've gotten some emails andthings from people that said you
know, my parents actuallykilled themselves and this.
I didn't know if anybody wouldread it if that was the case,
but I had people say thank youso much because this actually
helped me watch them go throughthe journey to figure all this
out.
Wow, that's really that made mefeel so good, because you know,
(42:19):
you don't know if somebody'sgoing to read it and go oh my
God, I can't believe you wrotethis or you know, you never know
and the people have been sogreat and said really nice
things and related to a lot ofthe women.
Speaker 1 (42:28):
Yeah, I've had a lot of those different not suicide
but I've had a lot of the themesthat we talked about in the
lessons that we talked abouttoday.
I've had a lot of the themesthat we talked about in the
lessons that we talked abouttoday.
I've had a lot of those thingshappen in my life and sometimes
I can't go there in a bookbecause it's too hard, but this
was written in a way that wasvery inviting and it was okay to
(42:50):
come out on the other side.
It really was.
It was really well done.
One of the things that I alsosaw in myself was that they all
stayed stuck.
You know, they just stayedstuck and they stayed stuck for
too long Because they didn'tmake risks.
Speaker 2 (43:07):
They didn't take risks, and neither did their
mother.
They learned that.
Speaker 1 (43:11):
Yes, but I loved that journey and how they figured
out how to get unstuck.
Speaker 2 (43:19):
They weren't really living their lives in a lot of
ways and, same as their mother,carla, wasn't living her life,
and they sort of picked all ofthat up, even if they didn't
realize it.
Speaker 1 (43:29):
Right.
Are there any themes in thebook that we haven't covered
that you want our listeners toknow?
Speaker 2 (43:38):
I think you covered them all.
I think you did an amazing job.
You pulled out stuff.
This escape room I never cameup with.
When you said that I was likeoh wow, that never occurred to
me.
I just like thought of theplace and thought, oh, that
would be kind of an interestingplace to do a scene in.
But when you said that aboutescape, I thought, wow, that
really hit me.
Speaker 1 (44:01):
They were living the life that the end, that little
scene was actually the entirebook in like a couple paragraphs
.
Speaker 2 (44:10):
Which I never realized till you said it.
See, that's what I love is likea reader tells you something.
I've had readers say thingsabout my book that I know I
didn't intend.
But when they say it's there, Isee it and I think, wow, where
did that come from?
Because it wasn't something inmy mind.
So I love that you said that.
That just made me so happy.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
That's so cool?
Yeah, because you know they askquestions which led them to
another, which they broke free,this, and then they had to go to
another level of their life andthen they get out on the other
side.
Speaker 2 (44:41):
That's true, you're right, it is.
It's so funny that I didn'teven think of it the way you saw
that that's so cool.
Speaker 1 (44:49):
How can listeners get a hold of you?
And I got my book on Amazon andI saw your other books.
I already started another onebut yeah, how can they get a
hold of you or read your books?
Speaker 2 (45:04):
My books are available everywhere, but, yes,
amazon has them.
They can go to my website.
It's lesliearasmussencom, and Ialso have signed books on there
too that they can buy.
Speaker 1 (45:17):
Oh, I might have to do that.
Speaker 2 (45:20):
And then I'm on Instagram at LeslieROthor, I'm
on Facebook atLeslieARasmussenAuthor, I'm on
LinkedIn I'm pretty mucheverywhere.
Also, the audio book of whenPeople Leave will be out next
month.
Speaker 1 (45:35):
Okay, well, that's great.
Well, thank you, leslie, forbeing on the show.
When People Leave, a Story ofLove Lies and Finding the Truth
isn't just a novel.
It's a mirror, a reminder thatbehind every perfect family
photo is a layered story ofsurvival, silence and sometimes
(45:55):
secrets that we're still tryingto understand To our listeners.
If you've ever felt like yourfamily's story was too
complicated to talk about,you're not alone.
And if grief ever left youasking questions with no answers
, you're not broken.
And if you've ever wonderedwhether healing was possible
after the truth comes out, thisstory proves that it is.
(46:16):
This is a novel that relates tous all and it has so many
lessons that we can take from it.
When change becomes what weneed, lean into it.
Allow the hard work so you canstep into growth.
Invite transformation and letyourself evolve.
Own the shift.
Let it become the catalyst.
Get Leslie's book and her othertwo novels After Happily Ever
(46:40):
After and the Stories we CannotTell.
Thank you for being a part ofthis journey with us.
Share this episode with someonewho needs it.
Remember there is purpose inthe pain and hope in the journey
.
Subscribe to Real Talk withTina and Anne and we will see
you next time.
World changers aren't pleasingeverybody.
(47:08):
They're just not Next time.
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