When Going Back to your 10-year-old self, Changes Everything!
What would happen if you suddenly woke up in 1978 face-to-face with your 10-year-old self? In this captivating conversation, award-winning author Amy Weiland-Daughters shares the remarkable journey behind her book "You Cannot Mess This Up," a time-travel memoir that beautifully blends nostalgia, humor, and profound emotional healing.
Amy reveals how what began as "a funny back-in-time book" unexpectedly transformed into a therapeutic journey through her childhood. Through vivid descriptions of Thanksgiving 1978—complete with Jordache jeans, Atari games, and her mother's traditional dinner—she explores how stepping back into her childhood home allowed her to see her parents, siblings, and younger self through entirely new eyes.
The conversation dives into the vivid contrasts between 1978 and today—a world with no smartphones, no Google, just a trusty Sears Catalog and trips to the mall that felt like events of epic proportion. Amy paints a nostalgic picture of a simpler time, filled with innocence and analog joys, yet she doesn't shy away from the reality of the present.
Most powerfully, Amy shares how writing this book healed her relationship with "Little Amy." What began as embarrassment at her younger self's exuberance evolved into deep appreciation: "I want to honor that bowl-cutter kid every day for the rest of my life and make her proud, because she's the best part of me."
Through laughter, tears, and moments of profound insight, Amy's story reminds us that our most ordinary family stories matter. As she puts it: "Just because it wasn't a case of extremes doesn't mean it didn't happen." Her creative approach to processing childhood memories offers listeners a roadmap for examining their own pasts with compassion and understanding.
Whether you're drawn to nostalgic trips through the 1970s or seeking ways to reconcile with your younger self, this episode promises both entertainment and healing. Have you ever wondered what you'd say if you could talk to your childhood self? Listen in and join the conversation.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne and today I'm sittingdown with Amy Weiland-Dotters.
She is a keynote speaker,letter writer, satirist, sports
journalist and award-winningauthor.
She has written two books.
Dear Dana, that Time I WentCrazy and Wrote All 580 of my
(00:22):
Facebook Friends A HandwrittenLetter and the book we are going
to be talking about today.
You Cannot Mess this Up.
A true story that neverhappened.
A laugh out loud, heart-tuggingmemoir about time travel and
family secrets.
And a complicated, hilarious,beautiful story of going home
again.
What if you woke up in 1978?
(00:45):
No cell phones, no Google, nosocial media, just you, your
childhood home, your mom'sThanksgiving meal and your
10-year-old self staring back atyou.
If you've ever wanted tounderstand your parents a little
better or forgive your youngerself, or maybe just relive a
simpler time with Fresca and thefacts of life, we're going
(01:08):
there.
So grab your Jordache jeans andyour Atari, because this isn't
your typical therapy session.
It is Thanksgiving 1978.
Amy, I am so glad to have youhere today.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you, anne, and what a great, incredible
introduction that will live inmy heart forever because I just
felt like that.
You say that the story is soseen and celebrated, so thank
you for that.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, this is a very different way of looking at your
life.
I mean, at first I was likewait a second.
You're in a plane, you gotdifferent clothes on, you're
landing in 1978.
I mean, what's happening?
But it was a journey, it was aride that I was in for and it
actually is a very fast readbecause of how entertaining it
(01:57):
is, because you are so funny.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Thank you.
But you know, and really thatwas the intention of the book
when I first started writing wasI'm going to write a funny back
in time book and the rest of it, just you.
But you know, and really thatwas the intention of the book
when I first started writing wasI'm going to write a funny back
in time book and the rest of itjust happened.
But the humor is you know whatI wanted to do.
So thank you for recognizingthat.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I have to ask where did this incredible concept come
from?
Time traveling to yourchildhood home, a memoir wrapped
in fiction?
Or a back to the future wrappedin a memoir to heal?
I mean what?
Where did it come from?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, it was, you know, I came to writing.
I wasn't educated to be awriter.
I got a business degree and Icame to writing not later, I
mean in my thirties and fortiesand I wasn't trained to be a
writer.
So the story was my husband andI moved to England with our
oldest son, who was young at thetime, for three years with his
(02:51):
job, and we thought, oh, this isgoing to be a great adventure.
But then when I got over thereI had worked in purchasing for
like 15 years I was like wait asecond, what do I do?
This is a very long day in thecountryside of England.
So the first thing I did is Iwent and took some history
classes at the local university,but that wasn't enough to fill
the time and I didn't have awork visa.
And so my sacrifice was, youknow, I didn't sacrifice my
(03:16):
career per se, but kind of mysanity.
And then I'd always been drawnto writing.
When I worked.
I would always reread my emailsand think about how profound my
email about the picnic or theChardonnay was.
And so I was like, well, maybewhat I'll do is dip my toes in
the water.
So it was almost out ofdesperation that I started
writing, you know, sitting inEngland.
(03:37):
And then it was the beginningof the high speed internet and I
was like, wait a second, I canactually sell my words to people
.
I didn't know that was a thing.
And so by the time we got homefrom England I was pregnant with
kid number two and I was like,well, I'm not going to go right
back to work.
So at the end of that pregnancy, once I had him at home, I was
(03:57):
like, wait a second, I have asecond career here that I could
possibly launch, and so I mybread and butter.
I wrote about college footballfor a long time, but that
experience in writing for theBleach Report gave me the
confidence to write.
You cannot mess this up.
Because I did not take myselfseriously, which this imposter
syndrome I didn't realize was athing, and I, I, but I that idea
(04:21):
and I, I love the past, I lovenostalgia, I love time travel.
So I'd always been fascinatedwith and I always would like, if
I had a choice, I'd gobackwards rather than forward.
I was fascinated with writingmyself back to my own childhood.
So it was just an idea.
But, like I said, my intentionwas purely to write a really
(04:42):
funny book where I got to usethe Sears catalog as my research
and that was my joy, like Ihave boxes of stuff I used for
that book.
But what I did not realize is,once I wrote myself back into
that position, oh my goshfeelingscom.
I was going to have to dealwith every memory I've ever made
(05:02):
, with my relationship with myparents, and looking at my own,
because a lot of the book isbased it's a memoir wrapped in
the tortilla of time travel,which makes it a fictional book.
But I had to all thosechildhood memories.
I was re-seeing them as anadult woman with two kids who
would have totally seen themdifferently once I'd lived the
(05:23):
rest of my life.
So it was profoundly impactfulto me personally.
I ended up writing Catharsiswithout even knowing it.
I've had many people ask me didyou work with a therapist?
I was like no, the book was atherapist for me, right right.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
When I read this, I actually pictured myself being
able to go on bookingcom and,you know, rent a house where I
could go back in time and, youknow, order a family and have
them, you know, be representedas all the players and
everything, and I thought howcool that would be, you know,
for people to be able to do that, so you could go back and, you
(06:02):
know, pick a day in history thatyou wanted to relive or not, if
somebody else chose it for you.
I was just kind of curious whyyou chose Thanksgiving and why
1978 yeah, those are greatquestions.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I felt like this is funny because it wasn't really
having two kids, but I hadworked as a camp counselor for a
long time.
I'd grown up at a summer campand the kids they always put me
with were the 10-year-olds andthey were not in puberty yet.
And now it gets closer andcloser as our culture evolves.
(06:39):
But the 10-year-olds still hadthe innocence of they weren't in
puberty yet.
They were willing to doanything like all like you come
up with any kind of crazynonsense and these girls were in
, but they also didn't require aconstant, you know, like they
weren't.
Uh, they were less likely to behomesick, they were less likely
to be a bedwetter.
(06:59):
So it was like the sweet spotthat I did this, probably six
years.
It was a sweet spot betweenthose two things and I loved
that part of of of childhood, itjust being a.
I was 18, 19, 20, 21 when I didthat job, but I loved those kids
and so when I thought aboutwhat age would I want to see
myself at, I thought 10, 10 is asweet spot, you know.
(07:20):
And so I was.
I was physically 10 year olds,you know, and so I was
physically 10 years old in 1978.
And so 1978 was chosen.
(07:41):
I often think if I was going todo it all again, knowing what I
know.
Everybody talks about thefifties and the sixties, and
really I feel like there's morepeople talking about the
eighties and the seventies.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It gets kind of left out, especially 1978, you know,
yeah, unless you're talkingabout disco or something you
know.
I mean, that's all we're knownfor in the seventies, right, but
the 78 by then?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
we were almost bridging the gap, gap to
shoulder pads.
You know we weren't there yet,but it's easy to rope that in,
you know with.
But I I'm really proud of thatand that wasn't intentional on
my part.
I was just trying to get myselfto see myself at 10.
That was my whole intention.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, I mean, I was going to ask you what it was
like to sit across from yourselfwhile you were writing this
book.
As you're looking at this10-year-old self, did you write
from your own memory?
Was this your own perspectiveon who little Amy was at 10
years old?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Well, you know that's another part of the journey
that I didn't really expect,because what I did to a lot of
the meat of those memories, orthe way I wrote it, way I wrote
it, I there was this.
We lived in Ohio at the timeand there was this 1970s resort
called I'm trying to think whatthe name was it was in Oxford,
ohio, outside of Oxford Ohio,but it was so, so seventies, and
(08:59):
I had two small kids at thetime, so this was a very
indulgent process.
I locked myself up in this roomand I even went to dinner at
night in the seventies diningroom with the salad bar and the
whole thing.
But I took a VCR, I took allthe family albums, I took
everything I had and I putmyself in this room and I
started.
You know, we had eightmillimeter film but mom had got
it put on VCR tapes and so I ranthis stuff and just started
(09:21):
watching it and I got all thephotos out and laid them on the
bed and I basically tried toimmerse myself in this, my
childhood as an adult woman, andmy first reaction to myself was
, especially with the videos.
I was like, oh my God, she'scrazy, she's absolutely insane.
And there's one specific videowhere I'm wearing this like
(09:41):
medieval school play costume andthis stranger comes into the
house and I'm wearing this likemedieval school play costume and
this stranger comes into thehouse and I'm literally in her.
I'm just up in her situation,I'm all in her face and I'm
leaping around and you know,sashaying all over the place and
that that that's really howthat scene in the book comes
from.
It's my absolute like, oh myGod, are you kidding me?
Stop.
And I was so uncomfortable withjust even watching the video
(10:04):
and I've had a lot of peopletell me that I was too hard on
Amy, but I think that was agreat visual for me to actually
see her live.
You know, minus sound, andthat's where I, that's where I.
You know, that was a lot of myreaction.
That's how I got got hersitting across from me.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I was wondering if you wanted to scream at her,
laugh with her, hug her, Likewhat did you want to do when you
were sitting across from her?
Were there parts of yourselfthat wanted to do those things?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Oh yeah, I mean I wanted to shake her and say, hey
, we got to fit in just for afew years here.
You know, we got to pullourselves together because you
don't understand, you don't getyour 10.
You don't get it, you don't getthat this.
You know we're laying thisfoundation at school, at home.
You know that that, that youcould be who you really want to
be, all you want to, but like no, shut it down.
(10:56):
And then I absolutely wanted tolay on the floor in the feet
top position and hug her and belike you know, girl, we're going
to be all right and we're goingto, we're going to get through
this.
And I wanted to absolutelylaugh at her and be like you are
a badass, let's go, you know.
But but she?
I think the best way I can framemy relationship with the Lamy
(11:18):
with this book is I went intothat story and I don't know that
I went into that story but I,when I started writing her, when
I started doing all thatresearch, I wanted to run away
from her.
I was like I cannot do this.
I remember writing the book.
It was like cringe, you knowpeople say that now, cringe.
That's what it felt like.
But by the end of writing thatbook I was like you know what?
I want to be her because and Ididn't on purpose, and I think a
(11:42):
lot of people can relate this Ididn't do this on purpose, but
I lived some of the bestqualities of that little girl
away just by trying to survivemy regular normal life.
Mother coming out of this bookis I want to honor that
bowl-cutter kid every day forthe rest of my life and make her
proud, because she's the bestpart of me, you know and I think
(12:16):
about her as a separate persona lot.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, when you wrote me, I loved how you signed it
Big Amy and Little Amy.
I mean, that just warmed myheart actually, because I can
see you in two different parts.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Right, and the book gave me, gave me her back, and
with all her flaws and all myflaws.
You know, I mean we.
You know we're the same personand I.
There's such hope in that,though, because, though she was
a, you know, she was a freakexpress.
She was the best part of me, afreak express.
She was the best part of me.
She's some of the best parts ofme.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I also want to ask you, though at 10, this was
Thanksgiving in 1978, like wesaid.
I mean, how in the world didyou create all the behind the
scenes things that were going on?
Is that what you thought wasgoing on?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Oh, like the parent, the parent's party.
Well, my mom, mom and dad, andmainly mom, helped me with some
of that.
I don't know there was anactual party, but I knew as a
kid there was going to becomponents of that day that
didn't understand and some of it, like me looking around
realizing mom had cleaned allthat stuff up, was just being a
mom myself and being like, waita second.
(13:24):
I never even realized this wasthe real deal for this woman.
You know, part of it was me.
Part of the background was merealizing, oh my God, my mom's
just trying to survive, kind ofbedazzled by it.
And the other part wasconversations with my brother
and sister and my mom and dad,you know, about my grandparents,
about conversations that musthave happened, that had been
uncomfortable, and some of thatwas.
(13:50):
You know that that dining roomscene was not an actual memory,
but that was a lot of that wasdrawn from an actual
conversation with my motherabout the conflict between the
grandparents.
So she, those undertones that Iwouldn't have seen, she
remembered.
I don't know that sheremembered them gladly, but she
was.
That's where I drew a lot ofthat from.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Well, it was her perspective, Right?
So I mean that's great that youwere able to convey that in the
book, because there was so muchand when you went back in time
to that exact moment, you know,with the party and the dining
room table, like you just said,that scene I was wondering if
you felt the awkwardnessawkwardness if you remembered it
(14:29):
at the table awkwardness, ifyou remembered it at the table.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
No, I don't.
I remember the conflict betweenmy mother and I and I remember
feeling awkward at certainpoints, but I certainly didn't
connect any of those dots untilI and that's again when I didn't
even realize it, until I wrotemyself back to what that you
know how much I had missed andthen how much had to have been
going on around me.
I mean, I just think of my ownchildren and my own life, and
that's one of the greattakeaways from the book.
Please tell me they're notgoing to write a book like this,
(14:57):
but they.
You know there's so much moregoing on.
I mean, as adults we don't knoweverything that's going on.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
We just think Exactly no, no, we really don't.
But we have a really greatthing going on in our head and
what's going on, but it mightnot be reality.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Right, and then this book.
Really, I think this storyreally asks what is reality and
what our memories and what partof like, how we retain them, how
we recall them and how they'remalleable, based on who's doing
the remembering.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
You know, one of my favorite parts of the book that
you talked about, you know, forbriefly a little bit ago, was
the nostalgia of it.
You know, I wore Jordache jeans.
I watched the Love BoatElectric Company.
I couldn't wait for the Searscatalog to come, and we also had
World Book Encyclopedias.
(15:51):
I loved how you describedyourself as tina yothers kind of
way, mixing family ties withprincess fergie, to come up with
a bushy head of hair, a solidframe and a flat face.
I mean, are you kidding me?
It was just so funny.
I mean I pictured this and Ilaughed out loud.
(16:11):
You say that you were not bornwith that chip that
instinctually tells you what towear.
I didn't get that chip either.
I never.
I'm a jeans t-shirt, you knowMe too, and that's all I wear.
Except back then I did have myJordache jeans on.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Right, and that was how that and Gloria Vanderbilt
was the epitome of, you know,fashion and you know I I
researched in my other thanwriting the funny parts.
The research was just a delightand a joy, to the point where
the girl ended the book we hadto, we had to take out.
She's like I know you're,you're funny and I know you're
nostalgic, but we have to pickwhich parts of this to keep,
(16:49):
because there's a lot of it.
So there's a lot of things thatI researched that I didn't use.
But the other joy of this bookis connecting with people like
you who remember their ownthings, and us sharing those
with each other, because there'ssomething about nostalgia
that's so soul warming.
You know there's somethingabout it that is, you know, just
(17:12):
delightful and it doessomething to our spirit, I
believe.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Well, it brings a connection that I don't think we
have in other ways, you know,because we live through the same
time period.
Right, yeah, I had Pong.
You know I thought that thatwas really amazing, that I had
this Atari system hooked up tothis huge TV and this big wooden
box.
And you know, I watched theGong Show and Tony, orlando and
(17:36):
Dawn and Donny and Marie, and Iread my Nancy Drew books on my
canopy bed and I mean, I thinkthat we can all relate.
If we grew up then we had threechannels on that big box.
That turned to snow at 11o'clock I think, and we played
(17:56):
Tripoli and also this isinteresting I live right by the
Goodyear blimps, so I see themall the time, really.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
That's incredible Because you know spring Texas
that was.
The only thing going on wasthat blimp, and so you're in
outside of.
I'm in Ohio, Okay, Okay.
Well, I spent 12 of the bestyears of my life.
I wrote this book in Ohio.
So parts of it, yeah, but yeah.
But the blimp was a big deal tous growing up in suburbia
because that blimp would comeover.
No one anywhere else in Texascould.
(18:24):
You couldn't compete with that.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So, yeah, all the time we see the blimp.
They just did a really coolthing where it was the
anniversary of something andthey did all three of them at
the same time all over our area,so we constantly were seeing
them in the air.
It was really fun.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Is that Akron then?
Is that where the blimp is?
Yeah, yeah, the zips, yep.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Not too far away from there.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, and by Cleveland, okay, from there,
yeah, that's like Cleveland.
Okay, that makes me want to gosee it, because that the
nostalgia of the blimps like ifmy brother and sister and I were
to stand out in a yard and seea blimp, we would just, yeah,
we'd probably cry, and we don'teven believe in crying, you know
just because it's such a sweet,sweet memory that's gone, like
that, where the blimp place wasis a home depot now.
I think that's in the book ohokay.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, we have a really big hangar about 20
minutes from where I am.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, that's about how far I was from the blunt
base in spring growing up.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah.
So anyway, I had to tell youthat because I thought that that
was like just a cool thing, andone thing that really stuck out
to me was how much our worldhas changed since 1978.
You know no phone, no internet.
You couldn't Google anything.
The only thing that you had wasyour handy dandy notebook.
You know no phone, no internet,you couldn't Google anything.
The only thing that you had wasyour handy dandy notebook.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
you know, right, and that was yeah, yeah, and that
just came because I'm alwaysjotting stuff down.
As somebody who writes, I thinkI just like to observe things.
And so the notebook thing, Ididn't pre-plan, I just put that
in her pocket because I feltlike she needed it, because she
was me, and but one of myfavorite scenes from the book is
when I sit down to write littleAmy a note before I leave and I
(19:59):
realized that I'm not going toquote some president or do
something really important.
And the only thing I have goingfor me is what I can pull out of
my head, because I can't rundownstairs and get the world
books, because they'll see me,you know.
But but I love that.
I love that part where I'm like, oh my God, I'm just going to
have to rely on my own cat-likereflexes here because I have
(20:19):
nothing to Google.
Like I cannot Google anything.
I'm going to have to saysomething profound to her that
came from my own head and heart.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So I mean it's really interesting how we made it
through school and everythingback then, right.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Right.
I mean it's really interestinghow we made it through school
and everything back then.
Right, right, the library, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, I mean now people can, you know, even go
and chat GPT and have it writetheir own papers for them if
they want to.
But I mean we really had to bereally creative on our own and I
think that that helped us.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
So, oh, I think it, I think it absolutely did.
And then there was a sloweddown, you know pace of life that
we don't have now.
I mean, I realized that toobecause you know, I drive
through the neighborhood andthere's all those children
playing outside and there's allthose adults outside.
Well, now, I mean, you goanywhere even when the weather's
nice and everyone's inside.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, because they're all gaming and things like that
.
And another thing that youmentioned was how we can just
Amazon something, and reallyquick.
You know I can have it rightnow, but we would have to wait
for weeks for things.
You know, we never knew whenour present, or whatever it was,
was going to come in the mail.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And then there was the finding of things.
You know, now you still have tosearch for certain things, but
when you got something thatsomebody really had to make an
effort to get, you know, I likethe scene in the mall and it's
in Houston, and she wants littleAmy wants a Redskins, a
Washington Redskins helmet.
And I realized they're theWashington commanders now, but
they, but that would have beensomething really difficult, you
(21:45):
know.
The guy asks oh, are youshipping it to someone somewhere
else?
I'm like, no, what's the what's?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
where's the internet?
We would never do that in amillion years.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
I mean that's ridiculous, you know, and yeah,
but it's also that that whole ofa gift being special has been
compromised by the ease inreceiving things.
But I think it's those smallthings that we have given up in
the name of so many good things,but we don't even know we're
missing things.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
And I think that's why time travel stories, you
know, are important, not justmine, but, and I think that's
probably one of the reasons I'mdrawn to them- the other thing
that you really talked about andI and I love this was it was
kind of woven in there thedifference between how life is
now for women and back then andexpectations within the home and
(22:33):
the family, and you conveyedthat so well.
I'm so proud of where womenhave come.
You took us into that timeperiod so well.
The thing that I did love aboutthat time too, though, was the
innocence, which you kind oftouched on a little bit.
And's such a trade, I mean,would you want that innocence
(22:55):
for where we are now?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
it sounds like you might yeah, I don't know, but
that's that's also, you know,looking at the past and making
it better than it was, and Ithink that's very, that's a
human response, like that wasthe golden era, you know, and I
like the scene in the mall whereI'm looking at everything.
Everybody's wearing niceclothes or eating at that little
(23:16):
cafe in the mall, but then yourealize there's about, there's a
whole bunch of people left outof that scene because you're now
, we're, we're a much more, youknow, inclusive society.
Okay, that's true, and andthough the innocence of that
time, we're fast paced, we're ina big hurry.
You know it's a very divisiveculture we're living in, you
know, but but that's part, Iguess that's part of what change
(23:39):
is about.
And I don't know that there'sprobably a right answer to that
question.
When I go back and see mygrandparents again, personally,
a hundred percent, the innocenceis is alluring, you know, but
which world do I want my kids tolive in?
I don't know, maybe neither, Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
It's hard to say maybe a little of both.
Right, because it's.
The world is really scary rightnow.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
For my three littles that and I you know it is scary,
it is it is and what's gonnahappen, and maybe and I've never
said this before, but it it's agreat conversation.
Maybe us that have been to 1978and lived it, maybe part of our
call is to share some of thatyou know, to live part of that
(24:22):
culture here, because we can,you know, and bring some of that
, not back we can't fully bethere, but to share some of
those traits with the peoplearound us.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Right, right, yeah, I think that that's really
important.
Some of the one thing that hasreally changed was that we don't
smoke.
You know, everywhere.
You don't have smoke everywhere.
My dad's car smelled so bad, sostale cigarettes everywhere,
that you went and really peoplecould smoke everywhere, and I'm
so glad that part of theseventies is gone.
(24:52):
Also, we would like get in theback of our station wagon and
just kind of go with.
You know, roll all over theplace and we weren't secure
going down the highway.
I don't even know how we madeit to 2025.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
No, absolutely, we were bicycles with no helmets.
Oh, absolutely, we werebicycles with no helmets.
You know, we were hanging offof trees in the backyard and
(25:29):
that metal playground equipmentthat in Houston, was it not
knowing?
Because I think the internet,you and I wouldn't be able to
have this incredibleconversation without the
internet, without zoom, you know, and we wouldn't have probably
connected.
It would have been much moredifficult and so, but on the
other side of that is, we didn'tknow what to be afraid of in
1978, like we know what to beafraid of.
(25:51):
In in moms and as parents, theknowing it alters the way we're
going to protect our children,and rightfully so.
Just because my mom didn't knowwho lived down the street, or
know I was going down the gravelslope at 94 miles an hour, it
didn't mean she didn't careabout me.
(26:12):
And I and I think that's theother theme in this book is, you
know, letting parents off thehook because they were just
trying to do the best they could.
It's not just freeing ourparents' generations, but for us
, because we're all just doingthe best we can.
Mom and dad were doing the bestthey could.
Little Amy was doing the bestshe could.
Kim was being the princess andthe queen of the whole world.
That's the best she could.
Kim was being the princess andthe queen of the whole world.
(26:36):
That's the best she could do,you know.
And Rick was oblivious.
But I'm doing the best I can.
Anne's doing the best she can.
You know everybody waslistening.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Really, we're all probably doing the best we can.
Yeah, absolutely correct.
But one of the other messagesthat went through your book a
lot was and I loved this becauseyou mentioned how what happened
in the house with your mom orin general, actually, I'm
guessing, defined everyone right, Only it never actually
happened and I loved that.
(27:05):
Why do you think your familyswept things under the rug and
didn't talk about their feelings?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I think it was a product of the 1970s and I think
probably our foremothers andbears from the 40s, 50s and 60s
and I don't know when it changedwould agree with us, would
share a similar, and I'm noteducated enough to know, but I
think there, you know, there's apoint where humans just survive
.
And then there's a point whereyou know you go further and
(27:33):
further into the emotional, in agood way, maybe in a bad way
sometimes, but I think we werelike a lot of other families in
the 70s, a functional, lovingfamily that didn't really
discuss anything that actuallyhappened, but still love each
other.
And I have a great story aboutthe book when it came out, right
before it came out.
Well, this is funny because Ididn't want to share the book
(27:54):
with my nuclear family because Iwas afraid of what they were
going to think and they gave mecomplete freedom to.
They were like just do what yougot to do.
And so the book was coming outin March and I was home for
Christmas and I basicallydropped off binders at their
homes and left like, went out oftown and I was so afraid of
what they were going to say.
And so, like, two months later Igot a text from my dad and the
(28:18):
text read something like I readyour book.
It was, you know, a great.
You know I traveled back intime with you.
I think you handled thedelicate matters really well.
I won't say anything morebecause we don't talk about that
kind of stuff.
And then he put dog emoji, dogemoji, dog emoji.
That's what he did, like 18 dogemojis.
And I will tell you this, anne,that is the last text I ever
(28:40):
received from my father.
He passed away suddenly thenext week and so he never held
the actual book in his hand.
But he read it and I got thatgreat review and I got that
incredible.
We don't talk about that kindof stuff.
You know, like he totally gotit and it was.
That text is one of the biggestgifts of my life.
But it just said what you said.
(29:01):
You know we don't talk aboutour feelings and he acknowledged
that.
But I also wonder if he feltlike maybe we should have talked
more.
Hard to say, because I nevergot to ask him.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, I mean you're right hard to say, because I
never got to ask him.
So, yeah, I mean you're right,we didn't talk about those
things in 1978.
We had huge secrets in ourfamily, and we didn't have terms
like gaslighting and thingslike that, you know.
We just didn't talk about it,we ignored it and we moved on.
And that was the times you saidsomewhere below the surface,
what we think we see is reallife, and that is so true.
(29:36):
I love how you wrote that.
Now, when you went back in time, though, what secrets did you
find?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
well, I think well, that you know stuff like the
grandparents not getting along.
I felt like it was likeDisneyland, except for it wasn't
.
Except for.
You know, I think I, you know,and it's.
This is hard because it's myown life, like I do discuss my,
my mother's drinking, which is adelicate matter, for sure.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I didn't know about it as a child, so it wasn't a
secret.
But when I looked at it throughthe eyes of an adult and saw my
younger self, especially as amother, I think I unlocked
secrets about how we dealt withit and how it impacted us all as
adults and how it impacted mymother.
And I think the other secrets Isaw was my mother was reacting
(30:26):
to her reality.
That she was, you know, maybenot.
I think.
The thing is I always thoughtmom was happy because we lived
in a nice house and dad waswonderful.
But maybe that's not the lifethat mom wanted.
I mean, no one asked mom, youknow.
She just went along with whatthey.
She grew up in the fifties.
She went along with the programmore than I went along with the
(30:47):
program.
I went along with the programless.
My kids will go along with theprogram less than their kids.
No telling what they're goingto do.
There'll be no program.
But I think that was.
The secrets were more nuanced,you know.
I didn't come across anythingthat was like oh my God, I can't
believe I didn't know aboutthis.
It was more nuanced.
It was more a perspective shift.
It was more about truth, truthfinding.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, and you know my aunts and everybody in the
family, the women.
You know they were always inthe kitchen and they were doing
their thing and lots of timesthey had a dress on and you know
they had their hair up nice andeverything.
And I mean those times are justgone.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Oh, completely, yeah, and no, absolutely.
And it's funny, though, becausethings are changing right now,
we don't even know it.
You know absolutely.
And it's funny, though, becausethings are changing right now,
we don't even know it.
You know just like it was then.
You know, we went from thebouffant and the pearls to, you
know, skorts and sweatpants.
You know and amen, I'm all.
I'm here for it.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I wanted to ask you about the comment about your dad
in the book, how he said thatour biggest fights about were
about you and I tried to protectyou.
Where, where were you comingfrom with that?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Well, dad told me that you know from an early age
that he never understood it,that mom just did not.
She cared for me and did allthe things, but she didn't like
me.
There was something, ever sinceI was tiny, that she didn't
like, and so he didn't go intogreat detail, and this is when
(32:20):
he was older.
He was in his seventies when hetold me that and I wrote the
exact truth.
He told me that in a room inOhio with our dog running past
and my younger son, and so wedidn't discuss it anymore.
But I know that things happenedand I think this, this book,
helped me, not and I.
On one hand, it made me realizethat all my memories weren't
(32:41):
though they were true to acertain extent.
You know they, they they mayhave happened, but the but the
actual, I don't know.
Without re-seeing it, like Ire-saw some other things in my
own imagination, I would have tosay.
But I think there were things,there were memories.
I had splashes of things thatreally happened and I think it
validated that, and I think hetried to protect me because she
(33:04):
didn't like me.
I think she tried to protect mebecause she that it turned
physical sometimes, but the bookwas a careful tiptoe down the
tightrope of my mother's stillalive now.
I don't want to.
I want to say this is my truthand this is my story.
(33:25):
But I also want to have arelationship with my mother and
I think that is such a common,very common thing.
And it was tricky, made thewriting the book tricky, and I
think that's why he said youhandled the delicate matters
well.
Though I alluded to some things, I didn't straight go into them
, except for a couple timesbecause the editor pushed me to
do it.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I think that you're touching on something that was
really big back then, because Ihad the exact same experience
with my mom and that appearancewas very important.
And you know, make sure yourshirt is tucked in.
Oh, look at you, you can't goout of the house looking like
that and everything had toappear perfect on the outside.
(34:04):
And little Amy didn't appear soperfect and you know, I mean
you went out in public and youmight have ruffled some feathers
or say, you know, she might beafraid that you're going to say
or do something that you weren'tsupposed to do and represent
the family in a way that shedidn't appreciate.
And I know that I was kind oflike that too.
I was, you know when, againstthe grain, I guess you could say
(34:29):
.
And so you know she wasn't.
My mom, too, resorted tophysical with me, and I think
that that's some of the thingsthat they just did back then.
And times have changed.
I mean, now you can't even hityour kid, even like a SWAT
sometimes, and it's, you know,oh, it's, it's abuse.
So I mean, things have reallyswayed the opposite way, but I
(34:52):
think that appearance doesn'tmatter as much as it used to.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Right, and it's back to the.
It's back to the pearls and thedress and the updo to serve
dinner at the end of the evening.
It's that same thing thatpressure was put on the child,
that had been put on the motherto go out.
And my grandmother in the book,my maternal grandmother is a
reaction to me.
She was just trying to survive,I think, mother.
(35:21):
I think mom loved me, but shedidn't know what to do with me
because she was trying to fit inthis box so she could just go
to the next day, you know, andthat didn't make what she did,
right, but she was literallyjust trying to survive.
And it reminds me of Facebookand Instagram.
Now, like we, we, you know, nowwe're just trying to make it
(35:41):
all perfect there.
That's the realm whereeverything still has to be
perfect.
So we think we've gotten better, except for everybody filtering
their pictures and their lives.
It's really the same thing, youknow, but it's it's it's
electronic, as as opposed topersonal.
But I think you're right.
I think our mothers, you know,in the context of the time
period of this book, werebrought up in the 50s by mothers
(36:03):
who were born in the 30s andthey expected a certain level of
perfection, you know, butthere's things that can bubble
in a sinister way underneath theyou know, canopy of perfection,
which is, you know, it cannotbe achieved by human beings.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
No, it was a very difficult time to grow up, I
think in an unspoken way, and wejust did what our parents told
us to do.
And but little Amy kind of wentagainst the grain a little bit
and did what she wanted to do,and that's fine.
But I think that your mom wastrying to stifle the very
creative part in you.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
You were a very creative child, right fine, but
I think that your mom was tryingto stifle the very creative
part in you.
You were a very creative child,right, and I think I actually
think that mom probably seesthat now.
But again, I do think.
I mean, I think it's a again,it's a balancing act.
I some of the stuff thathappened shouldn't happen, but I
do think that there's a lot ofgrace for her, though, because
she was trying to do what shethought she did.
(37:01):
Now would she go back and redothe whole thing?
Maybe she would, but there'sparts of my parenting, parts of
my whole life.
I would go back and redo.
If I can't get some of it, Ijust flat out messed up and um,
and I apologize for that.
But also you know that it,putting it in that lens, makes
me look at my mother in adifferent light, you know, and I
think that one of the powers ofthe story for me personally
(37:22):
again, was in the sharing of it,and then it being in book form,
I mean it makes you kind of ownit and I think that's a great.
You know, that is a goodtakeaway and it also reminds us
that you know, regardless of howexceptional we feel like our
life story is or isn't, whetherit's going to be on the Today
(37:43):
Show or Good Morning America ornot, it matters.
These stories matter, theseemotions matter.
This stuff that got put underthe rug matters, and it doesn't
matter that it matters to all ofFacebook or the rest of the
world.
It matters to us and the peoplewho care about us, and it
matters enough to have theconversation.
It matters enough to imagineourselves in the same situation
(38:03):
as Big Amy was, and I thinkthat's really important.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
One of the things that you did that I loved, and I
regret that my dad had passedaway when I was 11.
So I never got to have.
Yeah, I mean it was a reallyhuge loss in my life, for, you
know, he didn't walk me down theaisle, he didn't, he wasn't
around for me to get to know himas an adult and have any adult
conversations with him.
(38:27):
Really, and I loved that you,in this book, sat across from
your grandparents and had these,these adult conversations with
them.
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Oh, it was.
I mean, it was, you know, onepart, magical, to imagine that I
could have that conversation,that I could be in a physical
realm as an adult person, andit's one of the most emotional
parts of the book.
And I think for a lot ofreaders it was one of the most
emotional, relatable parts ofthe book because, you don't know
(38:59):
, as a I mean, we all say thisis such a relatable part of life
, but then you know they'regoing to be with us only a short
time, the grandparents, andthen they're gonna be gone and
we're gonna regret all thequestions.
We never asked them for therest of our lives.
It's such a part of the humanexperience that that generation
one up from ours, you know, itis such a part of all of our
human experience.
But to get that opportunity,even just to have the
(39:20):
opportunity to write it, was soemotionally satisfying because
there's a part of this book thatI feel like was real.
It was real because I wrote itand the emotional experience I
had and I had no idea that Iwould have that kind of
satisfying.
And the dog, for me, was soemotionally satisfying because
Cecil yeah, oh, thank you forremembering his name but they,
(39:42):
and then the, the for me when Ihad the conversation with myself
, my younger self, in thebedroom.
Those are probably the threepoints in the book that are so
emotionally satisfying.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Even though they didn't actually really happen,
they changed me yeah, there weretimes that I had to remind
myself that this wasn't real.
This was like a fiction, thatyou went back in time because it
felt so real.
I wanted to ask you about yoursiblings too, because I mean,
there were a lot of dynamicsthat were going on with you as
(40:13):
kids and as adults.
So did you understand yoursiblings a little bit better
after writing this book?
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I understood
the most well.
First of all, I got this rareopportunity to when I wrote them
as children.
I remembered them from thepictures and from what I
remembered of what we did.
But seeing their adult selvesin their imagined child selves
was really again satisfying and,you know, wonderful.
But also I just gained thisappreciation that we'd done this
(40:45):
ride together, as different aswe are, you know, and we've come
fractured, just like brothersand sisters do, all over.
We seem to come apart and gettogether because we are so
completely different.
But that just an appreciationthat I've got to do the ride
with these two people and youknow what.
And then the appreciation forhow they approached the book
project as the greatest thingand they were just so proud and
(41:06):
happy and wanted to talk aboutit and I think you know those
dynamics, like even with mymother, that it was hugely.
I forgot how supported and lovedand celebrated I was, you know,
and what a gift that was.
And we're still different.
But the book has become afamily book and, um, you know,
we're, we're proud of it.
(41:26):
Now there's the kids.
We all have kids and my sisterdoesn't have kids, but my
brother and I do, as they'vegotten old enough.
Each of them has read it.
Uh, my son, who just he's afreshman at LSU, he just read it
.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
He just listened to it on his way home from school
for the first time, you know.
So, yeah, that's so cool, youknow, I well, I believe that you
are right in the book when yousay that three people can be
raised in the same household andcome out with completely
different memories, and we allhave different experiences with
the same parents and talk aboutthree different people raised
together in the same home.
You're you three, and one of myfavorite parts of the book that
(42:09):
you kind of touched on earlier,when you went to the mall and
you took each of you shoppingincluding yourself shopping you,
you got.
You took each of you to be ableto go to the store they wanted
to, to get the things that theywanted to, to have the
experience that they wanted to.
Why did you choose what youchose for each of them?
(42:30):
And I'm really curious why youchose what you did for yourself.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Right.
Well, I really tried to be trueto what I thought each person
would want, based on what Iremember they wanted and then,
of course, based on what I knowthey want now.
But you know, that whole scenewas written because and I hate
to give her credit my sister Kim, who doesn't have any children,
she, every time one of our kidshas a birthday, she takes them
(42:57):
to the store they want to go toand she buys them what they want
.
So that was totally a tip ofthe hat to my sister.
That's what she does, and sothat was the inspiration for
that.
And then, plus, it got me inthe mall longer and I liked the
whole mall scene.
I loved the nostalgia and thedifferences and the mall in the
seventies was about the greatestthing that could ever happen to
(43:18):
you.
Yeah, you know, and so I wantedto.
I wanted to write that, but Iyou know the things that you
know Kim selected the K stickpen because hers was going to be
all about fashion and goingthrough the Sears catalogs.
I had forgotten about the stickpens and I knew she would want
whatever it was was the thing,and that was the thing in 1978.
(43:39):
And Rick loved Star Wars andactually in a Houston newspaper
that was an actual ad MeetChewabaca at the Greens Point,
jcpenney or whatever it was.
So I wrote that in based onfact.
That was part of my researchand then.
So we did that and then minethose things are true about me
and unfortunately I likeprocessed meat logs and fake
(44:00):
cheese and I always wanted to goto Hickory farms and that's a
lot of people's favorite scene.
You know, I always wanted to goto Hickory farms as a kid and I
never went.
And then I love football.
I ended up writing aboutfootball and I didn't see that
at the time and I would havecompletely been up in the
helmets and the bumper pooltables and so I wrote that whole
thing.
True, those, those, all thosethings that we selected were
(44:23):
true to who we are as kids.
And I actually got Kim and Rickfor Christmas after the book
came out.
I got them the items they gotat the mall as as uh, and my
brother got me a big meat log,so that the yard of beef.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
So there you go oh my gosh, that is so fun.
I love that.
Yeah, and and you do talk youmentioned the pro football hall
of fame in your book.
I go past it all the time.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I see it every week I've been twice and, uh, we got
to go to the induction threeyears ago for our.
That's where we went for our30th anniversary.
Everybody else went to thehawaii and we went to canton,
loved every minute of it.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Well, we go to the parade every single year, okay
and yeah, and we go to a lot ofthe happenings so it's a
beautiful facility.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Now it's grown too.
I know where there's a wholelot more.
They're building more whereit's going to be like a oh my
gosh entertainment destination,as opposed to just the, the hall
of fame yeah, it is huge, it'sfun.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Also, I wanted to touch on this memory and, well,
I wanted to know if it was amemory or if it was something
that you needed to write.
And that was about the bonanzascene and when you were there
with your dad, because everyother scene in the book this was
so different to me.
Your dad seemed happy, more joy, like he wanted to go out to
(45:51):
eat, he wanted to be a part withthe family, uh, and I didn't
catch that in any other part ofthe book.
So I was just wondering if thatwas an experience that you had
or if it was one that you needed.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Boy, that's a great question.
You know, no one has ever saidto me your father was I'm really
gonna have to think about thisthat I portrayed him different
in that scene.
I'm going to write that down,no one's ever so.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, thank you for that.
I don't know if it's not from amemory, because that's how dad
acted, because it was such a bigdeal when we went out to dinner
that he would have made such abig deal out of it, and he liked
(46:26):
to do the whole thankful thing,so maybe I let him run that
scene.
He was living when I wrote thescene, though.
But, maybe it was something Ineeded to do, and I don't know
if it was subconsciously that Iwanted to celebrate him in that
(46:47):
scene, because I you know, thewhole focus had been on mom
throughout the book and then I Iwanted to show that in in dad.
That is such a great question,ann, and I don't know that I
have a definitive answer.
I have to think about it.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
That was the one where your dad stood out the
most to me in the book.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Right, right, yeah, that's interesting.
And he, but he liked to do thewhole around the table thing and
my mother hated it and I and Iwrote that to the siege, like
Dick, I'm fine, you know, likeshut it down, but and and I
think that had dinner tablevibes, which I did a little bit
of.
How?
Cause, you know, we all satlike a lot of people did in the
seventies.
We sat down every night andeveryone sat down in their place
(47:20):
and it was kind of somewherebetween like very warm and
friendly and like this is atotal.
You know, like anything couldhappen, like this is the most
dysfunctional thing anybody'sever been to.
And also, yay, this iswonderful.
But I think that maybe that wasme showing how he acted at the
dinner table, because we onlyhad, I think, breakfast at the
(47:40):
actual table in the book andthat was dinner, dad too, and so
maybe that's what I was, maybethat's one of the things I was
highlighting.
So I made that scene biggerbecause that's how he would have
acted at a table with all of ussitting around him.
Well, it was a good scene,thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
And it also made me realize how expensive things are
today, versus $14 for a meal.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Right and all those prices were.
I mean, that's all research,but that's you know.
So all that was completely.
It's like the you know thescene, the go meet Darth Vader
scene in the mall in Houston.
That was a lot of it's based onfacts you know, and then Sure,
I knew that.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yeah, I could feel that you, with your memories,
talking about memories, youbring up a really good point
when you talk about staying inthe bad memories versus good
memories, and where do you findyourself most of the time?
Speaker 2 (48:35):
I think this book has helped me stay in the better
memories and it's another giftand I just never would have
expected when I sat down towrite my funny little.
I try to stay in the goodmemories more and I also try to
(49:07):
look at memories as malleableand I rely on my memory still
because I have a great memory.
I have a better memory than mybrother and sister and they
would admit that.
But that doesn't mean the wayit all went down is completely,
100% factual and I think there'sa lot of hope in that and I
think there's a lot of almostemotional freedom in that, Like
I don't have to be anchored tothat anymore all the time, Like
(49:29):
it happened, but that doesn'thave to be the anchor for the
rest of my life in the book thatyou know those tough things
that happen to us, that whendoes it get to the point where
we talk and talk about thingsand then we realize that it did
happen but the realization thattalking about it makes it worse
(49:49):
after a while.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
So and we're all different in how we deal with
our trauma and how we talk aboutit.
But I do know that we can reacha point where it is not healthy
to revisit and revisit and it'shealthy to pick up and move on
and figure out a new way to move.
Did this book help you do that?
It seems like it did.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
And I think what you said is soimportant that threshold is
different for each human being.
You know, each of us have adifferent threshold, for you
know, when we're ready to say,okay, that happened, that was
bad, but I'm going to, I'm goingto, I'm going to move forward
now, and I don't think it's evendone in a definitive way or,
you know, an absolute way.
(50:28):
I think it's just doneemotionally and then we're just
ready to go to the next thing.
I, you know, I love the, I lovethe line in the book and this
just made me think of it.
It's like the baggage carouselat the airport, you know you
take the bags on and off, andtake them off again and put them
on and at some point you knowit's.
It just goes around, around,around again until you walk away
from it.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Yeah, I had that visual in my head when I was
explaining that to you, becausethat's what it feels after a
while.
It's just it is time to kind ofpick up and pick, get those
luggage off the carousel andthen go off and move on.
And we need to do that.
At times we have to, and I feltthat with your book.
It felt so healing to me insuch a creative way and it
(51:13):
wasn't like the normal boringway of revisiting our life.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Wow, that's very humbling.
I will say that as I've rereadthe book.
You know, I think this is verycommon for anyone who's written
a book or written anything.
You are being creative aboutanything.
You look back at certain partsyou're like, ah, you know, I
can't believe I said that, but Ithink the thing I'm the
proudest of is how the book goes.
It'll get kind of deep and thenthere'll be some humorous zap
right right behind it.
I like that and I think that'swhat life is like, though you
(51:45):
know, we we live through thingsthat are real and hard and then
someone makes us laugh.
You know there's such, there'ssuch value in that and we forget
that.
You know we can be that to eachother, you know, and that's so
important.
You know levity is so importantand because it keeps things in
perspective and that's who wecan be to each other as adults
(52:08):
who have experienced, you know,this incredible, messy, screwed
up, beautiful life.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
I want to ask you about your mom.
Did she have a hard timereading herself in the book?
Speaker 2 (52:22):
did she have a hard time reading herself in the book
.
I cannot imagine Mom and I havediscussed it, but we haven't
had like a in-depth like we.
We, we touch on it, you know,and I I know that she cause I
the epilogue is true I did goand talk to mom, you know.
I did go and have thatconversation with her and we did
not agree on everything.
We both cried, which we,neither of us, cried ever, and
(52:44):
we walked away at least livingin the land of honesty.
And my mom has chosen, at leastin her conversations with me,
to focus on the parts of thebook that she felt seen and
valued and she's, she's, she's,you know, focused on those
things and maybe with herfriends she said oh, my God, I
can't believe she said all that,but I think she's.
(53:06):
I what my perception of whatshe's done with it is she's done
what dad said in the text.
We don't talk about thosethings and she's good with that
and she's fine with with notdiscussing those things, at
least with me, and I know shehasn't discussed them with my
brother and sister, but she hastold me stuff, like I liked when
you said dad's a great guy, buthe's, he's the right guy for me
(53:30):
.
You know where's mom's ladiesnight out?
She liked it when I said youknow she's living this beautiful
life, but is this the life shewanted?
She liked when I said momwanted to be a writer but she
didn't have the opportunitiesthat I did, because I think mom
saw herself seen as a woman andas this you know, amazing
individual who was captive toher time period, which was
(53:53):
absolutely the truth.
And I think she liked havingher mother being seen as this
negative force, you know, inthis backhanded kind of way in
her life, and I think she'schosen, at least with me, to
focus on those things.
And then she also I mean thisis personal, but she has
apologized to me several timessince the book came out, and not
(54:16):
in a specific way, but she saidstuff like I know I did stuff I
shouldn't have done.
I know I did things and I'mlike mom, we're good, you know,
and so she has.
So I guess that's her reactionto to what the book brought out
and what it didn't say, becausethat's all in there under the
under the surface.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
I mean, that's actually beautiful.
And I what about your siblings?
Have you been able to revisitwith them and say you know, why
did we act like nothing washappening in the house?
I mean, it wasn't extreme, butwhatever it was at the time, why
was it just ignored and movedon?
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Right, and I think the fact that it wasn't extreme
makes it even more not dangerous, but you don't, you know, like
nefarious, like like it's,because it's not big, nobody's
going to deal with it, and so itjust seems like everything's
perfect and it's fine, you knowRight.
But but they, they both, theywere, I think they were both, or
especially my sister.
My brother and I have discussedit less.
(55:13):
He's assessed it in the contextof one of his children's
relationship with his wife, buthe, you know, my sister, was
surprised that my, she knew someof the negative components of
my relationship with my mother,but she was surprised at the
breadth of it, cause I actuallyshared with her, you know, more
details and she was absolutelyjust dumped out in an upset,
(55:35):
very highly upset about it, andbecause her reality was
different than and I didn't gointo her room and talk to her
about it, you know, and itdidn't happen in front of other
people, and so I think she wasshocked and very, as my big
sister, I mean, as jealous as Iwas at her, she had my back,
yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
Okay, you know well, every family has secrets, and
you're right, and it doesn'thave to be a huge life altering
situation in order for it toaffect who we are as individuals
for the rest of our lives.
You know, it is thoseunderlying hidden secrets, those
things that are not said, thosedynamics within the family that
(56:15):
shape us, that are not healthy,that no one mentions.
And these are the stories thatare not normally written about.
And I'm so glad that you didthat.
Because is that why you addedthat twist to the time travel
too?
Because I have to say I thinkthat everyone should read this
book because these storiesthey're not the ones that are
(56:38):
often told and it is that kindthat hits people where they live
.
You know more people where theylive.
So many people don't have thoseextremes.
And I think that time traveltwist actually kind of made it
more fun in a way where we wereinvited into most people's lives
(56:58):
Most people's, you know, notthe extremes.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
Right, I think that's a great observation, you know,
and for me the time travel waswhat I want to do.
So and it ended up being, likeyou said this great, you know
connector, you know a device to,rather than just remembering it
, to relive it, you know, andthen that's so relatable.
The whole thing is so relatableand whenever I talk to somebody
(57:24):
about it, even when someonehasn't read the book.
You know you're an exceptionbecause you read it, and I mean
you read it with great attentionto detail.
But you see the click, click,click, click, click and all that
is is male, female, it doesn'tmatter age.
What would I do if I went backto my 10-year-old self?
And my kids have told me that Ithought myself back to my
10-year-old self and I was onlyhow many years removed from that
(57:48):
.
But that's the immediatetakeaway is I put myself in that
situation and what happens?
Speaker 1 (57:55):
I loved how you said just because it wasn't a case of
extremes doesn't mean it didn'thappen.
Right, right, yeah, becausewe're.
I loved how you said justbecause it wasn't a case of
extremes doesn't mean it didn'thappen, right, right, yeah,
because we're so quick tominimize our pain when it's not
extreme Right and we compare our.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
You know, I have a dear friend who lost her son to
cancer at 15.
And she tells me all the timeyou cannot not share your stuff
just because you don't thinkit's as bad as my stuff.
Like when my dad died.
She goes we're going to talkabout your dad dying, even
though you don't want to do thatwith me because you're
comparing it right away to myson's death.
(58:31):
She said that doesn't take awayfrom your experience being a
real experience that has had aprofound impact on you.
But I think social media hasdone nothing but it accelerates
that thought because we look onsocial media for the extreme, we
hear the extreme stories.
That's what's shared and so wethink if we don't have something
extreme, it's not worth sharing.
(58:53):
And I like what you said.
This book is just it's kind ofthere's not right words for it
anymore not normal, not suburban, you know, but it's just like
you said, for most people, for alot of people, it's relatable.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
Um that makes it powerful in a backhanded way
yeah.
Welcome to Real Talk with Tina and Anne.
I am Anne and today I'm sittingdown with Amy Weiland-Dotters.
She is a keynote speaker,letter writer, satirist, sports
journalist and award-winningauthor.
She has written two books.
Dear Dana, that Time I WentCrazy and Wrote All 580 of my
(00:22):
Facebook Friends A HandwrittenLetter and the book we are going
to be talking about today.
You Cannot Mess this Up.
A true story that neverhappened.
A laugh out loud, heart-tuggingmemoir about time travel and
family secrets.
And a complicated, hilarious,beautiful story of going home
again.
What if you woke up in 1978?
(00:45):
No cell phones, no Google, nosocial media, just you, your
childhood home, your mom'sThanksgiving meal and your
10-year-old self staring back atyou.
If you've ever wanted tounderstand your parents a little
better or forgive your youngerself, or maybe just relive a
simpler time with Fresca and thefacts of life, we're going
(01:08):
there.
So grab your Jordache jeans andyour Atari, because this isn't
your typical therapy session.
It is Thanksgiving 1978.
Amy, I am so glad to have youhere today.
Speaker 2 (01:22):
Thank you, anne, and what a great, incredible
introduction that will live inmy heart forever because I just
felt like that.
You say that the story is soseen and celebrated, so thank
you for that.
Speaker 1 (01:35):
Well, this is a very different way of looking at your
life.
I mean, at first I was likewait a second.
You're in a plane, you gotdifferent clothes on, you're
landing in 1978.
I mean, what's happening?
But it was a journey, it was aride that I was in for and it
actually is a very fast readbecause of how entertaining it
(01:57):
is, because you are so funny.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Thank you.
But you know, and really thatwas the intention of the book
when I first started writing wasI'm going to write a funny back
in time book and the rest of it, just you.
But you know, and really thatwas the intention of the book
when I first started writing wasI'm going to write a funny back
in time book and the rest of itjust happened.
But the humor is you know whatI wanted to do.
So thank you for recognizingthat.
Speaker 1 (02:16):
I have to ask where did this incredible concept come
from?
Time traveling to yourchildhood home, a memoir wrapped
in fiction?
Or a back to the future wrappedin a memoir to heal?
I mean what?
Where did it come from?
Speaker 2 (02:30):
Well, it was, you know, I came to writing.
I wasn't educated to be awriter.
I got a business degree and Icame to writing not later, I
mean in my thirties and fortiesand I wasn't trained to be a
writer.
So the story was my husband andI moved to England with our
oldest son, who was young at thetime, for three years with his
(02:51):
job, and we thought, oh, this isgoing to be a great adventure.
But then when I got over thereI had worked in purchasing for
like 15 years I was like wait asecond, what do I do?
This is a very long day in thecountryside of England.
So the first thing I did is Iwent and took some history
classes at the local university,but that wasn't enough to fill
the time and I didn't have awork visa.
And so my sacrifice was, youknow, I didn't sacrifice my
(03:16):
career per se, but kind of mysanity.
And then I'd always been drawnto writing.
When I worked.
I would always reread my emailsand think about how profound my
email about the picnic or theChardonnay was.
And so I was like, well, maybewhat I'll do is dip my toes in
the water.
So it was almost out ofdesperation that I started
writing, you know, sitting inEngland.
(03:37):
And then it was the beginningof the high speed internet and I
was like, wait a second, I canactually sell my words to people
.
I didn't know that was a thing.
And so by the time we got homefrom England I was pregnant with
kid number two and I was like,well, I'm not going to go right
back to work.
So at the end of that pregnancy, once I had him at home, I was
(03:57):
like, wait a second, I have asecond career here that I could
possibly launch, and so I mybread and butter.
I wrote about college footballfor a long time, but that
experience in writing for theBleach Report gave me the
confidence to write.
You cannot mess this up.
Because I did not take myselfseriously, which this imposter
syndrome I didn't realize was athing, and I, I, but I that idea
(04:21):
and I, I love the past, I lovenostalgia, I love time travel.
So I'd always been fascinatedwith and I always would like, if
I had a choice, I'd gobackwards rather than forward.
I was fascinated with writingmyself back to my own childhood.
So it was just an idea.
But, like I said, my intentionwas purely to write a really
(04:42):
funny book where I got to usethe Sears catalog as my research
and that was my joy, like Ihave boxes of stuff I used for
that book.
But what I did not realize is,once I wrote myself back into
that position, oh my goshfeelingscom.
I was going to have to dealwith every memory I've ever made
(05:02):
, with my relationship with myparents, and looking at my own,
because a lot of the book isbased it's a memoir wrapped in
the tortilla of time travel,which makes it a fictional book.
But I had to all thosechildhood memories.
I was re-seeing them as anadult woman with two kids who
would have totally seen themdifferently once I'd lived the
(05:23):
rest of my life.
So it was profoundly impactfulto me personally.
I ended up writing Catharsiswithout even knowing it.
I've had many people ask me didyou work with a therapist?
I was like no, the book was atherapist for me, right right.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
When I read this, I actually pictured myself being
able to go on bookingcom and,you know, rent a house where I
could go back in time and, youknow, order a family and have
them, you know, be representedas all the players and
everything, and I thought howcool that would be, you know,
for people to be able to do that, so you could go back and, you
(06:02):
know, pick a day in history thatyou wanted to relive or not, if
somebody else chose it for you.
I was just kind of curious whyyou chose Thanksgiving and why
1978 yeah, those are greatquestions.
Speaker 2 (06:18):
I felt like this is funny because it wasn't really
having two kids, but I hadworked as a camp counselor for a
long time.
I'd grown up at a summer campand the kids they always put me
with were the 10-year-olds andthey were not in puberty yet.
And now it gets closer andcloser as our culture evolves.
(06:39):
But the 10-year-olds still hadthe innocence of they weren't in
puberty yet.
They were willing to doanything like all like you come
up with any kind of crazynonsense and these girls were in
, but they also didn't require aconstant, you know, like they
weren't.
Uh, they were less likely to behomesick, they were less likely
to be a bedwetter.
(06:59):
So it was like the sweet spotthat I did this, probably six
years.
It was a sweet spot betweenthose two things and I loved
that part of of of childhood, itjust being a.
I was 18, 19, 20, 21 when I didthat job, but I loved those kids
and so when I thought aboutwhat age would I want to see
myself at, I thought 10, 10 is asweet spot, you know.
(07:20):
And so I was.
I was physically 10 year olds,you know, and so I was
physically 10 years old in 1978.
And so 1978 was chosen.
(07:41):
I often think if I was going todo it all again, knowing what I
know.
Everybody talks about thefifties and the sixties, and
really I feel like there's morepeople talking about the
eighties and the seventies.
Speaker 1 (07:52):
It gets kind of left out, especially 1978, you know,
yeah, unless you're talkingabout disco or something you
know.
I mean, that's all we're knownfor in the seventies, right, but
the 78 by then?
Speaker 2 (08:05):
we were almost bridging the gap, gap to
shoulder pads.
You know we weren't there yet,but it's easy to rope that in,
you know with.
But I I'm really proud of thatand that wasn't intentional on
my part.
I was just trying to get myselfto see myself at 10.
That was my whole intention.
Speaker 1 (08:19):
Yeah, I mean, I was going to ask you what it was
like to sit across from yourselfwhile you were writing this
book.
As you're looking at this10-year-old self, did you write
from your own memory?
Was this your own perspectiveon who little Amy was at 10
years old?
Speaker 2 (08:34):
Well, you know that's another part of the journey
that I didn't really expect,because what I did to a lot of
the meat of those memories, orthe way I wrote it, way I wrote
it, I there was this.
We lived in Ohio at the timeand there was this 1970s resort
called I'm trying to think whatthe name was it was in Oxford,
ohio, outside of Oxford Ohio,but it was so, so seventies, and
(08:59):
I had two small kids at thetime, so this was a very
indulgent process.
I locked myself up in this roomand I even went to dinner at
night in the seventies diningroom with the salad bar and the
whole thing.
But I took a VCR, I took allthe family albums, I took
everything I had and I putmyself in this room and I
started.
You know, we had eightmillimeter film but mom had got
it put on VCR tapes and so I ranthis stuff and just started
(09:21):
watching it and I got all thephotos out and laid them on the
bed and I basically tried toimmerse myself in this, my
childhood as an adult woman, andmy first reaction to myself was
, especially with the videos.
I was like, oh my God, she'scrazy, she's absolutely insane.
And there's one specific videowhere I'm wearing this like
(09:41):
medieval school play costume andthis stranger comes into the
house and I'm wearing this likemedieval school play costume and
this stranger comes into thehouse and I'm literally in her.
I'm just up in her situation,I'm all in her face and I'm
leaping around and you know,sashaying all over the place and
that that that's really howthat scene in the book comes
from.
It's my absolute like, oh myGod, are you kidding me?
Stop.
And I was so uncomfortable withjust even watching the video
(10:04):
and I've had a lot of peopletell me that I was too hard on
Amy, but I think that was agreat visual for me to actually
see her live.
You know, minus sound, andthat's where I, that's where I.
You know, that was a lot of myreaction.
That's how I got got hersitting across from me.
Speaker 1 (10:21):
I was wondering if you wanted to scream at her,
laugh with her, hug her, Likewhat did you want to do when you
were sitting across from her?
Were there parts of yourselfthat wanted to do those things?
Speaker 2 (10:34):
Oh yeah, I mean I wanted to shake her and say, hey
, we got to fit in just for afew years here.
You know, we got to pullourselves together because you
don't understand, you don't getyour 10.
You don't get it, you don't getthat this.
You know we're laying thisfoundation at school, at home.
You know that that, that youcould be who you really want to
be, all you want to, but like no, shut it down.
(10:56):
And then I absolutely wanted tolay on the floor in the feet
top position and hug her and belike you know, girl, we're going
to be all right and we're goingto, we're going to get through
this.
And I wanted to absolutelylaugh at her and be like you are
a badass, let's go, you know.
But but she?
I think the best way I can framemy relationship with the Lamy
(11:18):
with this book is I went intothat story and I don't know that
I went into that story but I,when I started writing her, when
I started doing all thatresearch, I wanted to run away
from her.
I was like I cannot do this.
I remember writing the book.
It was like cringe, you knowpeople say that now, cringe.
That's what it felt like.
But by the end of writing thatbook I was like you know what?
I want to be her because and Ididn't on purpose, and I think a
(11:42):
lot of people can relate this Ididn't do this on purpose, but
I lived some of the bestqualities of that little girl
away just by trying to survivemy regular normal life.
Mother coming out of this bookis I want to honor that
bowl-cutter kid every day forthe rest of my life and make her
proud, because she's the bestpart of me, you know and I think
(12:16):
about her as a separate persona lot.
Speaker 1 (12:18):
Yeah, when you wrote me, I loved how you signed it
Big Amy and Little Amy.
I mean, that just warmed myheart actually, because I can
see you in two different parts.
Speaker 2 (12:27):
Right, and the book gave me, gave me her back, and
with all her flaws and all myflaws.
You know, I mean we.
You know we're the same personand I.
There's such hope in that,though, because, though she was
a, you know, she was a freakexpress.
She was the best part of me, afreak express.
She was the best part of me.
She's some of the best parts ofme.
Speaker 1 (12:49):
I also want to ask you, though at 10, this was
Thanksgiving in 1978, like wesaid.
I mean, how in the world didyou create all the behind the
scenes things that were going on?
Is that what you thought wasgoing on?
Speaker 2 (13:04):
Oh, like the parent, the parent's party.
Well, my mom, mom and dad, andmainly mom, helped me with some
of that.
I don't know there was anactual party, but I knew as a
kid there was going to becomponents of that day that
didn't understand and some of it, like me looking around
realizing mom had cleaned allthat stuff up, was just being a
mom myself and being like, waita second.
(13:24):
I never even realized this wasthe real deal for this woman.
You know, part of it was me.
Part of the background was merealizing, oh my God, my mom's
just trying to survive, kind ofbedazzled by it.
And the other part wasconversations with my brother
and sister and my mom and dad,you know, about my grandparents,
about conversations that musthave happened, that had been
uncomfortable, and some of thatwas.
(13:50):
You know that that dining roomscene was not an actual memory,
but that was a lot of that wasdrawn from an actual
conversation with my motherabout the conflict between the
grandparents.
So she, those undertones that Iwouldn't have seen, she
remembered.
I don't know that sheremembered them gladly, but she
was.
That's where I drew a lot ofthat from.
Speaker 1 (14:08):
Well, it was her perspective, Right?
So I mean that's great that youwere able to convey that in the
book, because there was so muchand when you went back in time
to that exact moment, you know,with the party and the dining
room table, like you just said,that scene I was wondering if
you felt the awkwardnessawkwardness if you remembered it
(14:29):
at the table awkwardness, ifyou remembered it at the table.
Speaker 2 (14:35):
No, I don't.
I remember the conflict betweenmy mother and I and I remember
feeling awkward at certainpoints, but I certainly didn't
connect any of those dots untilI and that's again when I didn't
even realize it, until I wrotemyself back to what that you
know how much I had missed andthen how much had to have been
going on around me.
I mean, I just think of my ownchildren and my own life, and
that's one of the greattakeaways from the book.
Please tell me they're notgoing to write a book like this,
(14:57):
but they.
You know there's so much moregoing on.
I mean, as adults we don't knoweverything that's going on.
Speaker 1 (15:03):
We just think Exactly no, no, we really don't.
But we have a really greatthing going on in our head and
what's going on, but it mightnot be reality.
Speaker 2 (15:19):
Right, and then this book.
Really, I think this storyreally asks what is reality and
what our memories and what partof like, how we retain them, how
we recall them and how they'remalleable, based on who's doing
the remembering.
Speaker 1 (15:30):
You know, one of my favorite parts of the book that
you talked about, you know, forbriefly a little bit ago, was
the nostalgia of it.
You know, I wore Jordache jeans.
I watched the Love BoatElectric Company.
I couldn't wait for the Searscatalog to come, and we also had
World Book Encyclopedias.
(15:51):
I loved how you describedyourself as tina yothers kind of
way, mixing family ties withprincess fergie, to come up with
a bushy head of hair, a solidframe and a flat face.
I mean, are you kidding me?
It was just so funny.
I mean I pictured this and Ilaughed out loud.
(16:11):
You say that you were not bornwith that chip that
instinctually tells you what towear.
I didn't get that chip either.
I never.
I'm a jeans t-shirt, you knowMe too, and that's all I wear.
Except back then I did have myJordache jeans on.
Speaker 2 (16:28):
Right, and that was how that and Gloria Vanderbilt
was the epitome of, you know,fashion and you know I I
researched in my other thanwriting the funny parts.
The research was just a delightand a joy, to the point where
the girl ended the book we hadto, we had to take out.
She's like I know you're,you're funny and I know you're
nostalgic, but we have to pickwhich parts of this to keep,
(16:49):
because there's a lot of it.
So there's a lot of things thatI researched that I didn't use.
But the other joy of this bookis connecting with people like
you who remember their ownthings, and us sharing those
with each other, because there'ssomething about nostalgia
that's so soul warming.
You know there's somethingabout it that is, you know, just
(17:12):
delightful and it doessomething to our spirit, I
believe.
Speaker 1 (17:16):
Well, it brings a connection that I don't think we
have in other ways, you know,because we live through the same
time period.
Right, yeah, I had Pong.
You know I thought that thatwas really amazing, that I had
this Atari system hooked up tothis huge TV and this big wooden
box.
And you know, I watched theGong Show and Tony, orlando and
(17:36):
Dawn and Donny and Marie, and Iread my Nancy Drew books on my
canopy bed and I mean, I thinkthat we can all relate.
If we grew up then we had threechannels on that big box.
That turned to snow at 11o'clock I think, and we played
(17:56):
Tripoli and also this isinteresting I live right by the
Goodyear blimps, so I see themall the time, really.
Speaker 2 (18:04):
That's incredible Because you know spring Texas
that was.
The only thing going on wasthat blimp, and so you're in
outside of.
I'm in Ohio, Okay, Okay.
Well, I spent 12 of the bestyears of my life.
I wrote this book in Ohio.
So parts of it, yeah, but yeah.
But the blimp was a big deal tous growing up in suburbia
because that blimp would comeover.
No one anywhere else in Texascould.
(18:24):
You couldn't compete with that.
Speaker 1 (18:28):
So, yeah, all the time we see the blimp.
They just did a really coolthing where it was the
anniversary of something andthey did all three of them at
the same time all over our area,so we constantly were seeing
them in the air.
It was really fun.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Is that Akron then?
Is that where the blimp is?
Yeah, yeah, the zips, yep.
Speaker 1 (18:47):
Not too far away from there.
Speaker 2 (18:49):
Yeah, and by Cleveland, okay, from there,
yeah, that's like Cleveland.
Okay, that makes me want to gosee it, because that the
nostalgia of the blimps like ifmy brother and sister and I were
to stand out in a yard and seea blimp, we would just, yeah,
we'd probably cry, and we don'teven believe in crying, you know
just because it's such a sweet,sweet memory that's gone, like
that, where the blimp place wasis a home depot now.
I think that's in the book ohokay.
Speaker 1 (19:08):
Yeah, we have a really big hangar about 20
minutes from where I am.
Speaker 2 (19:12):
Yeah, that's about how far I was from the blunt
base in spring growing up.
Speaker 1 (19:17):
Yeah.
So anyway, I had to tell youthat because I thought that that
was like just a cool thing, andone thing that really stuck out
to me was how much our worldhas changed since 1978.
You know no phone, no internet.
You couldn't Google anything.
The only thing that you had wasyour handy dandy notebook.
You know no phone, no internet,you couldn't Google anything.
The only thing that you had wasyour handy dandy notebook.
Speaker 2 (19:36):
you know, right, and that was yeah, yeah, and that
just came because I'm alwaysjotting stuff down.
As somebody who writes, I thinkI just like to observe things.
And so the notebook thing, Ididn't pre-plan, I just put that
in her pocket because I feltlike she needed it, because she
was me, and but one of myfavorite scenes from the book is
when I sit down to write littleAmy a note before I leave and I
(19:59):
realized that I'm not going toquote some president or do
something really important.
And the only thing I have goingfor me is what I can pull out of
my head, because I can't rundownstairs and get the world
books, because they'll see me,you know.
But but I love that.
I love that part where I'm like, oh my God, I'm just going to
have to rely on my own cat-likereflexes here because I have
(20:19):
nothing to Google.
Like I cannot Google anything.
I'm going to have to saysomething profound to her that
came from my own head and heart.
Speaker 1 (20:27):
So I mean it's really interesting how we made it
through school and everythingback then, right.
Speaker 2 (20:32):
Right.
I mean it's really interestinghow we made it through school
and everything back then.
Right, right, the library, yeah.
Speaker 1 (20:35):
Yeah, I mean now people can, you know, even go
and chat GPT and have it writetheir own papers for them if
they want to.
But I mean we really had to bereally creative on our own and I
think that that helped us.
Speaker 2 (20:47):
So, oh, I think it, I think it absolutely did.
And then there was a sloweddown, you know pace of life that
we don't have now.
I mean, I realized that toobecause you know, I drive
through the neighborhood andthere's all those children
playing outside and there's allthose adults outside.
Well, now, I mean, you goanywhere even when the weather's
nice and everyone's inside.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
Yeah, because they're all gaming and things like that
.
And another thing that youmentioned was how we can just
Amazon something, and reallyquick.
You know I can have it rightnow, but we would have to wait
for weeks for things.
You know, we never knew whenour present, or whatever it was,
was going to come in the mail.
Speaker 2 (21:24):
And then there was the finding of things.
You know, now you still have tosearch for certain things, but
when you got something thatsomebody really had to make an
effort to get, you know, I likethe scene in the mall and it's
in Houston, and she wants littleAmy wants a Redskins, a
Washington Redskins helmet.
And I realized they're theWashington commanders now, but
they, but that would have beensomething really difficult, you
(21:45):
know.
The guy asks oh, are youshipping it to someone somewhere
else?
I'm like, no, what's the what's?
Speaker 1 (21:49):
where's the internet?
We would never do that in amillion years.
Speaker 2 (21:52):
I mean that's ridiculous, you know, and yeah,
but it's also that that whole ofa gift being special has been
compromised by the ease inreceiving things.
But I think it's those smallthings that we have given up in
the name of so many good things,but we don't even know we're
missing things.
Speaker 1 (22:13):
And I think that's why time travel stories, you
know, are important, not justmine, but, and I think that's
probably one of the reasons I'mdrawn to them- the other thing
that you really talked about andI and I love this was it was
kind of woven in there thedifference between how life is
now for women and back then andexpectations within the home and
(22:33):
the family, and you conveyedthat so well.
I'm so proud of where womenhave come.
You took us into that timeperiod so well.
The thing that I did love aboutthat time too, though, was the
innocence, which you kind oftouched on a little bit.
And's such a trade, I mean,would you want that innocence
(22:55):
for where we are now?
Speaker 2 (22:56):
it sounds like you might yeah, I don't know, but
that's that's also, you know,looking at the past and making
it better than it was, and Ithink that's very, that's a
human response, like that wasthe golden era, you know, and I
like the scene in the mall whereI'm looking at everything.
Everybody's wearing niceclothes or eating at that little
(23:16):
cafe in the mall, but then yourealize there's about, there's a
whole bunch of people left outof that scene because you're now
, we're, we're a much more, youknow, inclusive society.
Okay, that's true, and andthough the innocence of that
time, we're fast paced, we're ina big hurry.
You know it's a very divisiveculture we're living in, you
know, but but that's part, Iguess that's part of what change
(23:39):
is about.
And I don't know that there'sprobably a right answer to that
question.
When I go back and see mygrandparents again, personally,
a hundred percent, the innocenceis is alluring, you know, but
which world do I want my kids tolive in?
I don't know, maybe neither, Idon't know.
Speaker 1 (23:55):
It's hard to say maybe a little of both.
Right, because it's.
The world is really scary rightnow.
Speaker 2 (24:00):
For my three littles that and I you know it is scary,
it is it is and what's gonnahappen, and maybe and I've never
said this before, but it it's agreat conversation.
Maybe us that have been to 1978and lived it, maybe part of our
call is to share some of thatyou know, to live part of that
(24:22):
culture here, because we can,you know, and bring some of that
, not back we can't fully bethere, but to share some of
those traits with the peoplearound us.
Speaker 1 (24:32):
Right, right, yeah, I think that that's really
important.
Some of the one thing that hasreally changed was that we don't
smoke.
You know, everywhere.
You don't have smoke everywhere.
My dad's car smelled so bad, sostale cigarettes everywhere,
that you went and really peoplecould smoke everywhere, and I'm
so glad that part of theseventies is gone.
(24:52):
Also, we would like get in theback of our station wagon and
just kind of go with.
You know, roll all over theplace and we weren't secure
going down the highway.
I don't even know how we madeit to 2025.
Speaker 2 (25:07):
No, absolutely, we were bicycles with no helmets.
Oh, absolutely, we werebicycles with no helmets.
You know, we were hanging offof trees in the backyard and
(25:29):
that metal playground equipmentthat in Houston, was it not
knowing?
Because I think the internet,you and I wouldn't be able to
have this incredibleconversation without the
internet, without zoom, you know, and we wouldn't have probably
connected.
It would have been much moredifficult and so, but on the
other side of that is, we didn'tknow what to be afraid of in
1978, like we know what to beafraid of.
(25:51):
In in moms and as parents, theknowing it alters the way we're
going to protect our children,and rightfully so.
Just because my mom didn't knowwho lived down the street, or
know I was going down the gravelslope at 94 miles an hour, it
didn't mean she didn't careabout me.
(26:12):
And I and I think that's theother theme in this book is, you
know, letting parents off thehook because they were just
trying to do the best they could.
It's not just freeing ourparents' generations, but for us
, because we're all just doingthe best we can.
Mom and dad were doing the bestthey could.
Little Amy was doing the bestshe could.
Kim was being the princess andthe queen of the whole world.
That's the best she could.
Kim was being the princess andthe queen of the whole world.
(26:36):
That's the best she could do,you know.
And Rick was oblivious.
But I'm doing the best I can.
Anne's doing the best she can.
You know everybody waslistening.
Speaker 1 (26:42):
Really, we're all probably doing the best we can.
Yeah, absolutely correct.
But one of the other messagesthat went through your book a
lot was and I loved this becauseyou mentioned how what happened
in the house with your mom orin general, actually, I'm
guessing, defined everyone right, Only it never actually
happened and I loved that.
(27:05):
Why do you think your familyswept things under the rug and
didn't talk about their feelings?
Speaker 2 (27:11):
I think it was a product of the 1970s and I think
probably our foremothers andbears from the 40s, 50s and 60s
and I don't know when it changedwould agree with us, would
share a similar, and I'm noteducated enough to know, but I
think there, you know, there's apoint where humans just survive
.
And then there's a point whereyou know you go further and
(27:33):
further into the emotional, in agood way, maybe in a bad way
sometimes, but I think we werelike a lot of other families in
the 70s, a functional, lovingfamily that didn't really
discuss anything that actuallyhappened, but still love each
other.
And I have a great story aboutthe book when it came out, right
before it came out.
Well, this is funny because Ididn't want to share the book
(27:54):
with my nuclear family because Iwas afraid of what they were
going to think and they gave mecomplete freedom to.
They were like just do what yougot to do.
And so the book was coming outin March and I was home for
Christmas and I basicallydropped off binders at their
homes and left like, went out oftown and I was so afraid of
what they were going to say.
And so, like, two months later Igot a text from my dad and the
(28:18):
text read something like I readyour book.
It was, you know, a great.
You know I traveled back intime with you.
I think you handled thedelicate matters really well.
I won't say anything morebecause we don't talk about that
kind of stuff.
And then he put dog emoji, dogemoji, dog emoji.
That's what he did, like 18 dogemojis.
And I will tell you this, anne,that is the last text I ever
(28:40):
received from my father.
He passed away suddenly thenext week and so he never held
the actual book in his hand.
But he read it and I got thatgreat review and I got that
incredible.
We don't talk about that kindof stuff.
You know, like he totally gotit and it was.
That text is one of the biggestgifts of my life.
But it just said what you said.
(29:01):
You know we don't talk aboutour feelings and he acknowledged
that.
But I also wonder if he feltlike maybe we should have talked
more.
Hard to say, because I nevergot to ask him.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
Yeah, I mean you're right hard to say, because I
never got to ask him.
So, yeah, I mean you're right,we didn't talk about those
things in 1978.
We had huge secrets in ourfamily, and we didn't have terms
like gaslighting and thingslike that, you know.
We just didn't talk about it,we ignored it and we moved on.
And that was the times you saidsomewhere below the surface,
what we think we see is reallife, and that is so true.
(29:36):
I love how you wrote that.
Now, when you went back in time, though, what secrets did you
find?
Speaker 2 (29:44):
well, I think well, that you know stuff like the
grandparents not getting along.
I felt like it was likeDisneyland, except for it wasn't
.
Except for.
You know, I think I, you know,and it's.
This is hard because it's myown life, like I do discuss my,
my mother's drinking, which is adelicate matter, for sure.
Speaker 1 (30:03):
And.
Speaker 2 (30:04):
I didn't know about it as a child, so it wasn't a
secret.
But when I looked at it throughthe eyes of an adult and saw my
younger self, especially as amother, I think I unlocked
secrets about how we dealt withit and how it impacted us all as
adults and how it impacted mymother.
And I think the other secrets Isaw was my mother was reacting
(30:26):
to her reality.
That she was, you know, maybenot.
I think.
The thing is I always thoughtmom was happy because we lived
in a nice house and dad waswonderful.
But maybe that's not the lifethat mom wanted.
I mean, no one asked mom, youknow.
She just went along with whatthey.
She grew up in the fifties.
She went along with the programmore than I went along with the
(30:47):
program.
I went along with the programless.
My kids will go along with theprogram less than their kids.
No telling what they're goingto do.
There'll be no program.
But I think that was.
The secrets were more nuanced,you know.
I didn't come across anythingthat was like oh my God, I can't
believe I didn't know aboutthis.
It was more nuanced.
It was more a perspective shift.
It was more about truth, truthfinding.
Speaker 1 (31:10):
Yeah, and you know my aunts and everybody in the
family, the women.
You know they were always inthe kitchen and they were doing
their thing and lots of timesthey had a dress on and you know
they had their hair up nice andeverything.
And I mean those times are justgone.
Speaker 2 (31:26):
Oh, completely, yeah, and no, absolutely.
And it's funny, though, becausethings are changing right now,
we don't even know it.
You know absolutely.
And it's funny, though, becausethings are changing right now,
we don't even know it.
You know just like it was then.
You know, we went from thebouffant and the pearls to, you
know, skorts and sweatpants.
You know and amen, I'm all.
I'm here for it.
Speaker 1 (31:44):
I wanted to ask you about the comment about your dad
in the book, how he said thatour biggest fights about were
about you and I tried to protectyou.
Where, where were you comingfrom with that?
Speaker 2 (31:59):
Well, dad told me that you know from an early age
that he never understood it,that mom just did not.
She cared for me and did allthe things, but she didn't like
me.
There was something, ever sinceI was tiny, that she didn't
like, and so he didn't go intogreat detail, and this is when
(32:20):
he was older.
He was in his seventies when hetold me that and I wrote the
exact truth.
He told me that in a room inOhio with our dog running past
and my younger son, and so wedidn't discuss it anymore.
But I know that things happenedand I think this, this book,
helped me, not and I.
On one hand, it made me realizethat all my memories weren't
(32:41):
though they were true to acertain extent.
You know they, they they mayhave happened, but the but the
actual, I don't know.
Without re-seeing it, like Ire-saw some other things in my
own imagination, I would have tosay.
But I think there were things,there were memories.
I had splashes of things thatreally happened and I think it
validated that, and I think hetried to protect me because she
(33:04):
didn't like me.
I think she tried to protect mebecause she that it turned
physical sometimes, but the bookwas a careful tiptoe down the
tightrope of my mother's stillalive now.
I don't want to.
I want to say this is my truthand this is my story.
(33:25):
But I also want to have arelationship with my mother and
I think that is such a common,very common thing.
And it was tricky, made thewriting the book tricky, and I
think that's why he said youhandled the delicate matters
well.
Though I alluded to some things, I didn't straight go into them
, except for a couple timesbecause the editor pushed me to
do it.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
I think that you're touching on something that was
really big back then, because Ihad the exact same experience
with my mom and that appearancewas very important.
And you know, make sure yourshirt is tucked in.
Oh, look at you, you can't goout of the house looking like
that and everything had toappear perfect on the outside.
(34:04):
And little Amy didn't appear soperfect and you know, I mean
you went out in public and youmight have ruffled some feathers
or say, you know, she might beafraid that you're going to say
or do something that you weren'tsupposed to do and represent
the family in a way that shedidn't appreciate.
And I know that I was kind oflike that too.
I was, you know when, againstthe grain, I guess you could say
(34:29):
.
And so you know she wasn't.
My mom, too, resorted tophysical with me, and I think
that that's some of the thingsthat they just did back then.
And times have changed.
I mean, now you can't even hityour kid, even like a SWAT
sometimes, and it's, you know,oh, it's, it's abuse.
So I mean, things have reallyswayed the opposite way, but I
(34:52):
think that appearance doesn'tmatter as much as it used to.
Speaker 2 (34:56):
Right, and it's back to the.
It's back to the pearls and thedress and the updo to serve
dinner at the end of the evening.
It's that same thing thatpressure was put on the child,
that had been put on the motherto go out.
And my grandmother in the book,my maternal grandmother is a
reaction to me.
She was just trying to survive,I think, mother.
(35:21):
I think mom loved me, but shedidn't know what to do with me
because she was trying to fit inthis box so she could just go
to the next day, you know, andthat didn't make what she did,
right, but she was literallyjust trying to survive.
And it reminds me of Facebookand Instagram.
Now, like we, we, you know, nowwe're just trying to make it
(35:41):
all perfect there.
That's the realm whereeverything still has to be
perfect.
So we think we've gotten better, except for everybody filtering
their pictures and their lives.
It's really the same thing, youknow, but it's it's it's
electronic, as as opposed topersonal.
But I think you're right.
I think our mothers, you know,in the context of the time
period of this book, werebrought up in the 50s by mothers
(36:03):
who were born in the 30s andthey expected a certain level of
perfection, you know, butthere's things that can bubble
in a sinister way underneath theyou know, canopy of perfection,
which is, you know, it cannotbe achieved by human beings.
Speaker 1 (36:21):
No, it was a very difficult time to grow up, I
think in an unspoken way, and wejust did what our parents told
us to do.
And but little Amy kind of wentagainst the grain a little bit
and did what she wanted to do,and that's fine.
But I think that your mom wastrying to stifle the very
creative part in you.
Speaker 2 (36:40):
You were a very creative child, right fine, but
I think that your mom was tryingto stifle the very creative
part in you.
You were a very creative child,right, and I think I actually
think that mom probably seesthat now.
But again, I do think.
I mean, I think it's a again,it's a balancing act.
I some of the stuff thathappened shouldn't happen, but I
do think that there's a lot ofgrace for her, though, because
she was trying to do what shethought she did.
(37:01):
Now would she go back and redothe whole thing?
Maybe she would, but there'sparts of my parenting, parts of
my whole life.
I would go back and redo.
If I can't get some of it, Ijust flat out messed up and um,
and I apologize for that.
But also you know that it,putting it in that lens, makes
me look at my mother in adifferent light, you know, and I
think that one of the powers ofthe story for me personally
(37:22):
again, was in the sharing of it,and then it being in book form,
I mean it makes you kind of ownit and I think that's a great.
You know, that is a goodtakeaway and it also reminds us
that you know, regardless of howexceptional we feel like our
life story is or isn't, whetherit's going to be on the Today
(37:43):
Show or Good Morning America ornot, it matters.
These stories matter, theseemotions matter.
This stuff that got put underthe rug matters, and it doesn't
matter that it matters to all ofFacebook or the rest of the
world.
It matters to us and the peoplewho care about us, and it
matters enough to have theconversation.
It matters enough to imagineourselves in the same situation
(38:03):
as Big Amy was, and I thinkthat's really important.
Speaker 1 (38:07):
One of the things that you did that I loved, and I
regret that my dad had passedaway when I was 11.
So I never got to have.
Yeah, I mean it was a reallyhuge loss in my life, for, you
know, he didn't walk me down theaisle, he didn't, he wasn't
around for me to get to know himas an adult and have any adult
conversations with him.
(38:27):
Really, and I loved that you,in this book, sat across from
your grandparents and had these,these adult conversations with
them.
What was that like?
Speaker 2 (38:38):
Oh, it was.
I mean, it was, you know, onepart, magical, to imagine that I
could have that conversation,that I could be in a physical
realm as an adult person, andit's one of the most emotional
parts of the book.
And I think for a lot ofreaders it was one of the most
emotional, relatable parts ofthe book because, you don't know
(38:59):
, as a I mean, we all say thisis such a relatable part of life
, but then you know they'regoing to be with us only a short
time, the grandparents, andthen they're gonna be gone and
we're gonna regret all thequestions.
We never asked them for therest of our lives.
It's such a part of the humanexperience that that generation
one up from ours, you know, itis such a part of all of our
human experience.
But to get that opportunity,even just to have the
(39:20):
opportunity to write it, was soemotionally satisfying because
there's a part of this book thatI feel like was real.
It was real because I wrote itand the emotional experience I
had and I had no idea that Iwould have that kind of
satisfying.
And the dog, for me, was soemotionally satisfying because
Cecil yeah, oh, thank you forremembering his name but they,
(39:42):
and then the, the for me when Ihad the conversation with myself
, my younger self, in thebedroom.
Those are probably the threepoints in the book that are so
emotionally satisfying.
Speaker 1 (39:51):
Even though they didn't actually really happen,
they changed me yeah, there weretimes that I had to remind
myself that this wasn't real.
This was like a fiction, thatyou went back in time because it
felt so real.
I wanted to ask you about yoursiblings too, because I mean,
there were a lot of dynamicsthat were going on with you as
(40:13):
kids and as adults.
So did you understand yoursiblings a little bit better
after writing this book?
Speaker 2 (40:24):
Yeah, and I think one of the things that I understood
the most well.
First of all, I got this rareopportunity to when I wrote them
as children.
I remembered them from thepictures and from what I
remembered of what we did.
But seeing their adult selvesin their imagined child selves
was really again satisfying and,you know, wonderful.
But also I just gained thisappreciation that we'd done this
(40:45):
ride together, as different aswe are, you know, and we've come
fractured, just like brothersand sisters do, all over.
We seem to come apart and gettogether because we are so
completely different.
But that just an appreciationthat I've got to do the ride
with these two people and youknow what.
And then the appreciation forhow they approached the book
project as the greatest thingand they were just so proud and
(41:06):
happy and wanted to talk aboutit and I think you know those
dynamics, like even with mymother, that it was hugely.
I forgot how supported and lovedand celebrated I was, you know,
and what a gift that was.
And we're still different.
But the book has become afamily book and, um, you know,
we're, we're proud of it.
(41:26):
Now there's the kids.
We all have kids and my sisterdoesn't have kids, but my
brother and I do, as they'vegotten old enough.
Each of them has read it.
Uh, my son, who just he's afreshman at LSU, he just read it
.
Speaker 1 (41:48):
He just listened to it on his way home from school
for the first time, you know.
So, yeah, that's so cool, youknow, I well, I believe that you
are right in the book when yousay that three people can be
raised in the same household andcome out with completely
different memories, and we allhave different experiences with
the same parents and talk aboutthree different people raised
together in the same home.
You're you three, and one of myfavorite parts of the book that
(42:09):
you kind of touched on earlier,when you went to the mall and
you took each of you shoppingincluding yourself shopping you,
you got.
You took each of you to be ableto go to the store they wanted
to, to get the things that theywanted to, to have the
experience that they wanted to.
Why did you choose what youchose for each of them?
(42:30):
And I'm really curious why youchose what you did for yourself.
Speaker 2 (42:34):
Right.
Well, I really tried to be trueto what I thought each person
would want, based on what Iremember they wanted and then,
of course, based on what I knowthey want now.
But you know, that whole scenewas written because and I hate
to give her credit my sister Kim, who doesn't have any children,
she, every time one of our kidshas a birthday, she takes them
(42:57):
to the store they want to go toand she buys them what they want
.
So that was totally a tip ofthe hat to my sister.
That's what she does, and sothat was the inspiration for
that.
And then, plus, it got me inthe mall longer and I liked the
whole mall scene.
I loved the nostalgia and thedifferences and the mall in the
seventies was about the greatestthing that could ever happen to
(43:18):
you.
Yeah, you know, and so I wantedto.
I wanted to write that, but Iyou know the things that you
know Kim selected the K stickpen because hers was going to be
all about fashion and goingthrough the Sears catalogs.
I had forgotten about the stickpens and I knew she would want
whatever it was was the thing,and that was the thing in 1978.
(43:39):
And Rick loved Star Wars andactually in a Houston newspaper
that was an actual ad MeetChewabaca at the Greens Point,
jcpenney or whatever it was.
So I wrote that in based onfact.
That was part of my researchand then.
So we did that and then minethose things are true about me
and unfortunately I likeprocessed meat logs and fake
(44:00):
cheese and I always wanted to goto Hickory farms and that's a
lot of people's favorite scene.
You know, I always wanted to goto Hickory farms as a kid and I
never went.
And then I love football.
I ended up writing aboutfootball and I didn't see that
at the time and I would havecompletely been up in the
helmets and the bumper pooltables and so I wrote that whole
thing.
True, those, those, all thosethings that we selected were
(44:23):
true to who we are as kids.
And I actually got Kim and Rickfor Christmas after the book
came out.
I got them the items they gotat the mall as as uh, and my
brother got me a big meat log,so that the yard of beef.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
So there you go oh my gosh, that is so fun.
I love that.
Yeah, and and you do talk youmentioned the pro football hall
of fame in your book.
I go past it all the time.
Speaker 2 (44:50):
I see it every week I've been twice and, uh, we got
to go to the induction threeyears ago for our.
That's where we went for our30th anniversary.
Everybody else went to thehawaii and we went to canton,
loved every minute of it.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Well, we go to the parade every single year, okay
and yeah, and we go to a lot ofthe happenings so it's a
beautiful facility.
Speaker 2 (45:13):
Now it's grown too.
I know where there's a wholelot more.
They're building more whereit's going to be like a oh my
gosh entertainment destination,as opposed to just the, the hall
of fame yeah, it is huge, it'sfun.
Speaker 1 (45:25):
Also, I wanted to touch on this memory and, well,
I wanted to know if it was amemory or if it was something
that you needed to write.
And that was about the bonanzascene and when you were there
with your dad, because everyother scene in the book this was
so different to me.
Your dad seemed happy, more joy, like he wanted to go out to
(45:51):
eat, he wanted to be a part withthe family, uh, and I didn't
catch that in any other part ofthe book.
So I was just wondering if thatwas an experience that you had
or if it was one that you needed.
Speaker 2 (46:04):
Boy, that's a great question.
You know, no one has ever saidto me your father was I'm really
gonna have to think about thisthat I portrayed him different
in that scene.
I'm going to write that down,no one's ever so.
Thank you for that.
Yeah, thank you for that.
I don't know if it's not from amemory, because that's how dad
acted, because it was such a bigdeal when we went out to dinner
that he would have made such abig deal out of it, and he liked
(46:26):
to do the whole thankful thing,so maybe I let him run that
scene.
He was living when I wrote thescene, though.
But, maybe it was something Ineeded to do, and I don't know
if it was subconsciously that Iwanted to celebrate him in that
(46:47):
scene, because I you know, thewhole focus had been on mom
throughout the book and then I Iwanted to show that in in dad.
That is such a great question,ann, and I don't know that I
have a definitive answer.
I have to think about it.
Speaker 1 (46:53):
That was the one where your dad stood out the
most to me in the book.
Speaker 2 (46:56):
Right, right, yeah, that's interesting.
And he, but he liked to do thewhole around the table thing and
my mother hated it and I and Iwrote that to the siege, like
Dick, I'm fine, you know, likeshut it down, but and and I
think that had dinner tablevibes, which I did a little bit
of.
How?
Cause, you know, we all satlike a lot of people did in the
seventies.
We sat down every night andeveryone sat down in their place
(47:20):
and it was kind of somewherebetween like very warm and
friendly and like this is atotal.
You know, like anything couldhappen, like this is the most
dysfunctional thing anybody'sever been to.
And also, yay, this iswonderful.
But I think that maybe that wasme showing how he acted at the
dinner table, because we onlyhad, I think, breakfast at the
(47:40):
actual table in the book andthat was dinner, dad too, and so
maybe that's what I was, maybethat's one of the things I was
highlighting.
So I made that scene biggerbecause that's how he would have
acted at a table with all of ussitting around him.
Well, it was a good scene,thank you.
Speaker 1 (47:57):
And it also made me realize how expensive things are
today, versus $14 for a meal.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
Right and all those prices were.
I mean, that's all research,but that's you know.
So all that was completely.
It's like the you know thescene, the go meet Darth Vader
scene in the mall in Houston.
That was a lot of it's based onfacts you know, and then Sure,
I knew that.
Speaker 1 (48:20):
Yeah, I could feel that you, with your memories,
talking about memories, youbring up a really good point
when you talk about staying inthe bad memories versus good
memories, and where do you findyourself most of the time?
Speaker 2 (48:35):
I think this book has helped me stay in the better
memories and it's another giftand I just never would have
expected when I sat down towrite my funny little.
I try to stay in the goodmemories more and I also try to
(49:07):
look at memories as malleableand I rely on my memory still
because I have a great memory.
I have a better memory than mybrother and sister and they
would admit that.
But that doesn't mean the wayit all went down is completely,
100% factual and I think there'sa lot of hope in that and I
think there's a lot of almostemotional freedom in that, Like
I don't have to be anchored tothat anymore all the time, Like
(49:29):
it happened, but that doesn'thave to be the anchor for the
rest of my life in the book thatyou know those tough things
that happen to us, that whendoes it get to the point where
we talk and talk about thingsand then we realize that it did
happen but the realization thattalking about it makes it worse
(49:49):
after a while.
Speaker 1 (49:50):
So and we're all different in how we deal with
our trauma and how we talk aboutit.
But I do know that we can reacha point where it is not healthy
to revisit and revisit and it'shealthy to pick up and move on
and figure out a new way to move.
Did this book help you do that?
It seems like it did.
Speaker 2 (50:08):
Oh, absolutely, absolutely.
And I think what you said is soimportant that threshold is
different for each human being.
You know, each of us have adifferent threshold, for you
know, when we're ready to say,okay, that happened, that was
bad, but I'm going to, I'm goingto, I'm going to move forward
now, and I don't think it's evendone in a definitive way or,
you know, an absolute way.
(50:28):
I think it's just doneemotionally and then we're just
ready to go to the next thing.
I, you know, I love the, I lovethe line in the book and this
just made me think of it.
It's like the baggage carouselat the airport, you know you
take the bags on and off, andtake them off again and put them
on and at some point you knowit's.
It just goes around, around,around again until you walk away
from it.
Speaker 1 (50:48):
Yeah, I had that visual in my head when I was
explaining that to you, becausethat's what it feels after a
while.
It's just it is time to kind ofpick up and pick, get those
luggage off the carousel andthen go off and move on.
And we need to do that.
At times we have to, and I feltthat with your book.
It felt so healing to me insuch a creative way and it
(51:13):
wasn't like the normal boringway of revisiting our life.
Speaker 2 (51:23):
Wow, that's very humbling.
I will say that as I've rereadthe book.
You know, I think this is verycommon for anyone who's written
a book or written anything.
You are being creative aboutanything.
You look back at certain partsyou're like, ah, you know, I
can't believe I said that, but Ithink the thing I'm the
proudest of is how the book goes.
It'll get kind of deep and thenthere'll be some humorous zap
right right behind it.
I like that and I think that'swhat life is like, though you
(51:45):
know, we we live through thingsthat are real and hard and then
someone makes us laugh.
You know there's such, there'ssuch value in that and we forget
that.
You know we can be that to eachother, you know, and that's so
important.
You know levity is so importantand because it keeps things in
perspective and that's who wecan be to each other as adults
(52:08):
who have experienced, you know,this incredible, messy, screwed
up, beautiful life.
Speaker 1 (52:13):
I want to ask you about your mom.
Did she have a hard timereading herself in the book?
Speaker 2 (52:22):
did she have a hard time reading herself in the book
.
I cannot imagine Mom and I havediscussed it, but we haven't
had like a in-depth like we.
We, we touch on it, you know,and I I know that she cause I
the epilogue is true I did goand talk to mom, you know.
I did go and have thatconversation with her and we did
not agree on everything.
We both cried, which we,neither of us, cried ever, and
(52:44):
we walked away at least livingin the land of honesty.
And my mom has chosen, at leastin her conversations with me,
to focus on the parts of thebook that she felt seen and
valued and she's, she's, she's,you know, focused on those
things and maybe with herfriends she said oh, my God, I
can't believe she said all that,but I think she's.
(53:06):
I what my perception of whatshe's done with it is she's done
what dad said in the text.
We don't talk about thosethings and she's good with that
and she's fine with with notdiscussing those things, at
least with me, and I know shehasn't discussed them with my
brother and sister, but she hastold me stuff, like I liked when
you said dad's a great guy, buthe's, he's the right guy for me
(53:30):
.
You know where's mom's ladiesnight out?
She liked it when I said youknow she's living this beautiful
life, but is this the life shewanted?
She liked when I said momwanted to be a writer but she
didn't have the opportunitiesthat I did, because I think mom
saw herself seen as a woman andas this you know, amazing
individual who was captive toher time period, which was
(53:53):
absolutely the truth.
And I think she liked havingher mother being seen as this
negative force, you know, inthis backhanded kind of way in
her life, and I think she'schosen, at least with me, to
focus on those things.
And then she also I mean thisis personal, but she has
apologized to me several timessince the book came out, and not
(54:16):
in a specific way, but she saidstuff like I know I did stuff I
shouldn't have done.
I know I did things and I'mlike mom, we're good, you know,
and so she has.
So I guess that's her reactionto to what the book brought out
and what it didn't say, becausethat's all in there under the
under the surface.
Speaker 1 (54:36):
I mean, that's actually beautiful.
And I what about your siblings?
Have you been able to revisitwith them and say you know, why
did we act like nothing washappening in the house?
I mean, it wasn't extreme, butwhatever it was at the time, why
was it just ignored and movedon?
Speaker 2 (54:52):
Right, and I think the fact that it wasn't extreme
makes it even more not dangerous, but you don't, you know, like
nefarious, like like it's,because it's not big, nobody's
going to deal with it, and so itjust seems like everything's
perfect and it's fine, you knowRight.
But but they, they both, theywere, I think they were both, or
especially my sister.
My brother and I have discussedit less.
(55:13):
He's assessed it in the contextof one of his children's
relationship with his wife, buthe, you know, my sister, was
surprised that my, she knew someof the negative components of
my relationship with my mother,but she was surprised at the
breadth of it, cause I actuallyshared with her, you know, more
details and she was absolutelyjust dumped out in an upset,
(55:35):
very highly upset about it, andbecause her reality was
different than and I didn't gointo her room and talk to her
about it, you know, and itdidn't happen in front of other
people, and so I think she wasshocked and very, as my big
sister, I mean, as jealous as Iwas at her, she had my back,
yeah, okay.
Speaker 1 (55:54):
Okay, you know well, every family has secrets, and
you're right, and it doesn'thave to be a huge life altering
situation in order for it toaffect who we are as individuals
for the rest of our lives.
You know, it is thoseunderlying hidden secrets, those
things that are not said, thosedynamics within the family that
(56:15):
shape us, that are not healthy,that no one mentions.
And these are the stories thatare not normally written about.
And I'm so glad that you didthat.
Because is that why you addedthat twist to the time travel
too?
Because I have to say I thinkthat everyone should read this
book because these storiesthey're not the ones that are
(56:38):
often told and it is that kindthat hits people where they live
.
You know more people where theylive.
So many people don't have thoseextremes.
And I think that time traveltwist actually kind of made it
more fun in a way where we wereinvited into most people's lives
(56:58):
Most people's, you know, notthe extremes.
Speaker 2 (57:02):
Right, I think that's a great observation, you know,
and for me the time travel waswhat I want to do.
So and it ended up being, likeyou said this great, you know
connector, you know a device to,rather than just remembering it
, to relive it, you know, andthen that's so relatable.
The whole thing is so relatableand whenever I talk to somebody
(57:24):
about it, even when someonehasn't read the book.
You know you're an exceptionbecause you read it, and I mean
you read it with great attentionto detail.
But you see the click, click,click, click, click and all that
is is male, female, it doesn'tmatter age.
What would I do if I went backto my 10-year-old self?
And my kids have told me that Ithought myself back to my
10-year-old self and I was onlyhow many years removed from that
(57:48):
.
But that's the immediatetakeaway is I put myself in that
situation and what happens?
Speaker 1 (57:55):
I loved how you said just because it wasn't a case of
extremes doesn't mean it didn'thappen.
Right, right, yeah, becausewe're.
I loved how you said justbecause it wasn't a case of
extremes doesn't mean it didn'thappen, right, right, yeah,
because we're so quick tominimize our pain when it's not
extreme Right and we compare our.
Speaker 2 (58:11):
You know, I have a dear friend who lost her son to
cancer at 15.
And she tells me all the timeyou cannot not share your stuff
just because you don't thinkit's as bad as my stuff.
Like when my dad died.
She goes we're going to talkabout your dad dying, even
though you don't want to do thatwith me because you're
comparing it right away to myson's death.
(58:31):
She said that doesn't take awayfrom your experience being a
real experience that has had aprofound impact on you.
But I think social media hasdone nothing but it accelerates
that thought because we look onsocial media for the extreme, we
hear the extreme stories.
That's what's shared and so wethink if we don't have something
extreme, it's not worth sharing.
(58:53):
And I like what you said.
This book is just it's kind ofthere's not right words for it
anymore not normal, not suburban, you know, but it's just like
you said, for most people, for alot of people, it's relatable.
Speaker 1 (59:07):
Um that makes it powerful in a backhanded way
yeah.
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