September 28, 2020 • 46 mins
63 Americans die every day due to firearm suicide. These people are not mere statistics, but are beloved family members, friends, and loved ones. Today, hosts Kelly and JJ talk to two people who lost ones they love--Adam Friedman, a Team Enough Executive Council member, and Khary Penebaker, a DNC member and Board Member at Everytown. Adam lost his grandfather, and Khary lost his mother. Together, we discuss what everyone should know about firearm suicide, what it's like to be a survivor left behind, and initiatives like Brady's End Family Fire that seek to prevent these tragedies.
Mentioned in this podcast:
- Rates of Gun Suicide (Annals of Internal Medicine)
- We Lose 63 Americans a Day (End Family Fire)
- Know the Signs (Know the Signs)
For more information on Brady, follow us on social media @Bradybuzz or visit our website at bradyunited.org.
Full transcripts and bibliographies of this episode are available at bradyunited.org/podcast.
Enjoy some treats from Hu's Kitchen, like chocolate free of dairy, gluten, refined sugar, palm oil, and cane sugar!
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255.
Music provided by: David “Drumcrazie” Curby
Special thanks to Hogan Lovells for their long-standing legal support
℗&©2019 Red, Blue, and Brady
For more information on Brady, follow us on social media @Bradybuzz or visit our website at bradyunited.org.
Full transcripts and bibliographies of this episode are available at bradyunited.org/podcast.
National Suicide Prevention Lifeline: 1-800-273-8255.
In a crisis? Text HOME to 741741 to connect with a Crisis Counselor 24/7.
Music provided by: David “Drumcrazie” Curby
Special thanks to Hogan Lovells for their long-standing legal support
℗&©2019 Red, Blue, and Brady
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
JJ Janflone (00:08):
Hey everybody, this is the legal disclaimer where I
tell you that the views,thoughts and opinions shared on
this podcast belong solely toour guests and hosts, and not
necessarily Brady or Brady'saffiliates. Please note this
podcast contains discussions ofviolence that some people may
find disturbing. It's okay -- wefind it disturbing too.
(00:40):
Welcome back to another episodeof "Red, Blue and Brady."
Today's episode I'm going towarn you might be a little bit
more triggering than some otherones. I know that we talk about
a lot of really hard things onthis podcast but today
specifically, we are talkingabout firearm suicide. And I,
and Kelly, are lucky enough tobe joined by two fantastic
(01:01):
individuals. First up, we haveKhary Penebaker, we also have
with us, Adam Friedman, a memberof the Team Enough Executive
Council. We're here not justtalking about a new aspect of
Brady's End Family Fireinitiative, but also what it's
like to lose a beloved familymember to firearm suicide. Then,
(01:21):
in our "unbelievable but"section, I'm telling you all
about guns at airports. Again, Iknow, I'm sorry, I'm probably
making y'all terrified totravel. Finally, in our news
wrap up, we mark those whocontinue to fight for gun
violence prevention, and microremembrances of two mass
shootings. So Khary, Adam, Kellyand I are so happy to have you
(01:46):
with us. And I'm wondering if wecan just start by having you
know, in your own words,introduce yourself.
Khary Penebaker (01:50):
My name is Khary Penebaker. I am a gun
violence survivor for the last41 years of my life. My mom
Joyce Penebaker shot and killedherself on September 8, 1979.
Adam Friedman (02:02):
Hi, my name is Adam Friedman. I'm a student at
the George WashingtonUniversity, and one of the
national lobbying coordinatorsfor Team Enough.
Kelly Sampson (02:10):
If you all would be willing, and if it's not
uncomfortable for you, would youboth mind sharing your stories?
Khary Penebaker (02:17):
Well, so the first thing is, is that to go to
your question about the whetherthe question is personal or not.
I've done this so many times,this is almost therapeutic for
me to share my story and bevulnerable. I get more value out
of this than going to actualtherapy, because I get to talk
about it in my terms, not intherapeutic terms. And it just
feels better to kind of keepthis off my chest. Cause I know
(02:39):
that when I share my story, ithelps other people who are
struggling with the same thing,whether they have survived a
suicide attempt themselves, orsomeone else they know has
completed it, they can find away to talk about it in their
own way. So there's no questionthat kind of throws me off. S
don't worry about that.
But I was roughly 20 months oldwhen my mom shot and killed
herself. So I don't know, thelittle parts about her that I
(03:02):
know has been given to methird-hand. I have like maybe 50
or less pictures of her andthey're all faded, that 1970s
orangish kind of color that youdon't need a Instagram filter
for anymore. But the majority ofmy life up until about age nine
or ten, they had told me my momdied of an illness. And I guess
in a way, that's that's true,except the illness itself did
(03:25):
not in her life -- a bullet did.
And it was around nine or tenthat I heard, I overheard my
aunt say that my mom shotherself. But I still didn't
conceptualize it. It reallywasn't until I was actually 18
years old, my dad had beenworking on a house, I was a
senior in high school. And Iremember this day like it was
this morning. And I wasrummaging through his stuff just
(03:46):
like young folks tend to do,except there sometimes when you
rummage through things, youmight find something you don't
want to see. And I have found100 copies of my mother's death
certificate. And it was like, itwas like a kick in the teeth. I
was not anticipating that Iwould find, it wasn't looking
for it, I surely wasn't lookingfor 100 copies of it, and it
(04:07):
like destroyed my world. Becauseat that point, I felt like they
had lied to me. They didn't tellme the truth about my mom, the
real illness that had grippedher, and led her down the path o
self harm and completinsuicide. But the downside t
looking at that deatcertificate is that I did no
look at her birth. All I saw wa"shot self with revolver." An
(04:27):
I literally there was a, Iad longer hair at tim,e I litera
ly pulled a patch of hair ou. I had to go to like intense th
rapy for a few weeks. I didn't gto school for, I think two wee
s, because I was, just I felt lie empty. And it was the firs
time that it like really crystllized, at least in that minds
t, that my mom left. That does't mean that was her intent. In
(04:50):
fact, if you look at somef the tweets and the speeches
that I give, I've referenced tat, like her leaving me, onl
as a way to segue into me forgving her and realizing that her
shooting and killing herself washer way of, I guess, thinking
that my world was better off witout her, as if she were a detrim
nt or a burden to me or thatshe could have been as I grew
(05:13):
up, and that's something thattry to do. So that people who
are struggling with whether orot to complete suicide them
elves, if they think, they stp thinking that they're a bu
den, because my world, I can asure you is not better off with
ut her. And my, you know, my da, obviously has been my dad
or almost 43 years now. And myom shot and killed herself.
1 years ago, we've only talkeabout her suicide three times.
(05:35):
And the first time wasn't untl 2015. So this is something
hat I don't have a lot of likehat family-relat
JJ Janflone (05:44):
Well and Adam I know, your experience is
slightly different, because youand your grandfather were
actually really close you, youand he spent a lot of time
together before he passed.
Adam Friedman (05:55):
When I was 13 years old, I lost my grandfather
to gun suicide. It wasincredibly hard for me. And I
didn't know what to do in thewake of it. My grandfather was
my hero, I looked up to him, hisspontaneity and love of just
existing. Tt has informed somuch of who I am today and what
(06:18):
I hold close. And for him to besuch a larger than life
character for me, and thensuddenly lose him in the way
that I did through suicide, andspecifically gun suicide, I
really didn't know what to do. Iremember just a few days after
his suicide, sitting in his oldapartment, waiting for cleaners
(06:40):
to leave his office thinkingabout why someone would do what
he did and, and what I wassupposed to do now with this,
you know, 13 year old mentalityof life being shattered in a
way. And it wasn't till I'd saya few months, maybe even a year
or so later, that I started tomeet other folks who had similar
(07:02):
experiences to the one that thatI had to endure. And I began to
realize that not only was I notalone, in having a loved one die
by gun suicide, but I wasactually part of a really big
group in America. And being ableto connect with other people and
heal through action, has reallyenabled me to find community in
(07:25):
that pain. But also turn thatpain into something powerful,
productive and healing, and findgrowth in ensuring that other
folks don't have to go throughthat same pain that I had to go
through. And I think a lot ofthat, for me, comes down to what
I'm doing right now, which issharing my voice and my story,
however I can, to ensure thatanyone who listens can
(07:48):
understand that there are littlethings we can do to ensure that
these situations are ones thatdon't have to happen. I hope if
one person can get that messageand take action in their own
life, take action in the life ofa loved one, I'll feel like this
work is meaningful andworthwhile.
JJ Janflone (08:07):
And I want to jump in Khary, because I know when
when you started researchingyour mom, and you ended up
talking to your friends, thatthere were a few things you
learned that that impacted you alot, and have, in turn, I think
really impacted you're reallyimpacted your gun violence
prevention policies. I'mwondering if you could talk
about that a little bit.
Khary Penebaker (08:25):
I also learned that my mother was, not only
severely mentally unwell, butwas an alcoholic. I learned that
a month before she shot andkilled herself that she had told
her best friend that she wantedto die. And so when you when you
go from sharing my story intopolicy, that's that's usually
what I talk about. How a monthbefore she died, she's telling
(08:48):
her best friend that she wantedto die, but yet, no one thought
"let's make sure we that Joycedoesn't have her gun." And so we
can talk later whether it's selfstorage, or safe storage or
extreme risk protection orders,this is something that could
have saved my mother's life.
That doesn't mean she wouldautomatically be alive today
because this was her thirdattempt, but it could have
helped her stay alive one moreday. One more day after that,
(09:12):
one more day after that.
Suicideality requires aday-by-day approach, not you
know, "hey, 10 years from nowyou're going to be okay." It
wasn't until I was I think maybe39 or 40 that I actually learned
my mother's birthday, bought herdeath certificate online.
Because I couldn't ask myfamily, I definitely wasn't
going to ask my dad. Becausewhile, my mom shot and killed
(09:34):
herself so did his wife. And nowwhile I can, I can sit with
fellow gun violence survivorswhether it's Sandy or Richard
Martinez, Erica, whoever, and wecan have that moment. But I
can't do it with my father. It'sa it's a different dynamic and
watching your father cry issomething that, you know, it's
beyond heartbreaking. So Ididn't ask him her birthday. And
(09:54):
when I was 18, again, I didn'tlook at what the birthday was.
So I bought it and I remembergetting it in the mail. And it
was it was like the worst gutwrenching feeling thing I've
ever had. Like, it's just I wasI was angry and hurt. And then
for her birthday, which is June25, I put on Facebook, I
(10:14):
included her death certificate,but I also said in this moment
for your birthday, I want toforgive you for this. And what
that really meant is that I'mjust releasing the anger myself.
Not that I don't know how youforgive someone. I mean, people
say that all the time, but whatdoes that really mean? I don't
know. I think it's a personalthing. It's a selfish thing. I
needed to let go of somethingand not be angry, because the
(10:35):
anger was really mixing withdepression, and causing me like
when that that dark wave comes,it was even worse when anger is
involved. Because in some cases,in the times that I've attempted
suicide, it's more about like Iwant, I want to, I want to hurt
you for hurting me, right? Like,I want to get back at you for
this, I want to get back at myfamily, I want to get back at my
(10:56):
mom, and take me away from you.
But in the end, I don't reallywant to do that. I don't want to
hurt anybody, I surely don'twant to hurt myself. But this
has taken a long process to getto where I am today. Even when
those thoughts of self harmcreep into my brain, I have the
coping mechanisms in place toknow what I have to do. I know
the steps I need to take, I knoweverything I need to do to get
(11:17):
out of that moment. Butultimately, I know that this
moment will pass. And that'susually the thing that I say to
myself when it happens like"this too shall pass." While
it's hard to grasp what you'regoing to the depths of that,
those those dark moments, I knowit to be true. But I also know
that depression is lying to me,just like it lied to my mom and
made her believe that my worldwas better off without her. But
(11:39):
I know that my three childrenare going to be better off with
me, so that's where I am today.
Kelly Sampson (11:46):
I just want to thank you for I know, you've
said that, you know, you sharedthe story so much. But I do just
want to thank you for sharing itas openly as you did and being
so vulnerable. I'm struck bythat, because it is, I think,
even though we have this cultureof social media, and sharing,
there's still a lot of stigmaaround being vulnerable, or
(12:09):
talking about, you know, as youmentioned, even your own
experiences of depression andfeelings of self harm. So I just
want to thank you for modelingwhat that looks like. And that
kind of leads to the questionof, you know, not only do we
have stigmas in our societyaround talking about
vulnerability, or mental healthissues, you know, you can say,
(12:30):
"Oh, I have some anxiety," butyou can't really say "I have
anxiety and I'm thinking of selfharm," or you know, things like
that. And we talk about suicide,especially firearm suicide
there, there are these taboos.
And I'm wondering if you couldtalk a little bit about why you
think those taboos still exist,and how can we normalize having
conversations that can savesomeone's life? Or like you
(12:52):
said, at least give them anotherday.
Adam Friedman (12:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
I appreciate you saying that. Ithink it's so easy for us to
feel like this can't happen inour lives, this won't happen to
us. And it won't, until it does.
I think that's the thing that Itry to remind folks. I know that
these conversations can be hardto have, it's hard to talk about
gun, gun violence, it's hard totalk about suicide. And as I can
(13:16):
share from personal experience,it's much much harder to lose
someone you love to a gun,because those conversations
didn't happen. So I'd say youknow, to anyone who feels like
this can't happen to me, I thinkit's worth just not taking that
chance. I think it's importantfor people to recognize that
everyone is human, and peoplestruggle, that's part of life.
(13:40):
It's okay to go through a momentof crisis, and that's why it's
referred to as that, right?
People who experience moments ofcrisis are in a time of
additional pain and exertionwhere the state that they're in
isn't their permanent state. Andit's up to us to support them
and help them get through that.
And I think when folks are inthat state, when they're going
through a moment of crisis, theidea of ensuring their firearms
(14:02):
are secured isn't aboutrestricting access to a firearm
at all. I think it's aboutensuring that someone can get
the help that they need. And atleast in my experience, what
I've seen is that, for example,in the case of my grandfather,
having access to a firearm, itwasn't about him having access
to a gun for us. That wasn'tlike the the central issue. It
(14:22):
wasn't a question of gun rightsor anything like that. In the
wake of his suicide, I think theenduring thing we were all
wondering was, if he didn't haveaccess to that gun, would he
still be alive, understandingthat he had lived with guns in
his home for years before. Hewas a veteran. He was someone
who had been, you know,stationed overseas, had that
experience, and then come backhome lived with really
(14:46):
dilapidating, excruciating PTSDfor a number of years, was
consistently going to therapy.
And then it just took one dayfor all of that to break down in
that moment of crisis. And Ithink that's what's so important
for people to understand, right?
Is that, you know, someone canbe fine or seem fine, and we
don't always know what's goingon beneath that. But ultimately,
(15:07):
there are ways for us to checkin, and ways for us to be
cautious and accommodating toensure that what happened to my
grandfather doesn't have tohappen to anyone else.
Khary Penebaker (15:16):
So I may start from from an odd angle. Last,
last year, my good friend, CoryBooker, when he was running for
president, decided he was goingto, after hearing my story,
probably the 10th time. Hecalled me and said, "Hey, Khary,
you know what, I don't want tobe one of those politicians who
listens to your story," and thenyou know, they'll feel sorry,
(15:38):
and they'll they'll give youtheir well wishes and give you
the happy talk. He's like, " Iactually want to do something
about it." So in hispresidential platform, he
included specific policydirected at suicide prevention,
and even included gun suicideprevention. So he and I did this
town hall event here inMilwaukee. Last April. And you
know, heartbreaking. One of thethings that I said at the end
(16:01):
was, and I say this all thetime, I remind people that it is
okay not to be okay. Andespecially for men, it is okay
to admit that you need help. Itdoesn't make you less of a man
to do that. I think it makes youstronger as a person to, to own
where you are, especially youryour mental state, and want to
better yourself, right? Me, Itry to explain to people in the
(16:23):
sense that if you are wanting togo lift weights, and you feel
like you're overweight, or youwant to gain weight back, or
pack on some pounds, whatever itmight be. Do you feel less than
a person? Because you'readmitting you want to change
yourself, physically? Of coursenot. So why would you be less of
a person, if you do it mentally?
It's harder to do it mentally.
(16:43):
And I think it takes an immenseamount of courage to do that,
and should make you feel likeyou're that much stronger, for
being able to have admitted thatand then done the work to get
the help that you need. So atthis event, this guy comes up
after me, after the event, andcomes up to me and says, and I
get this all the time. But hesaid, Do you think your mom
(17:04):
would have completed suicide ifshe didn't have that gun? I'm
thinking to myself, like, "Areyou kidding me?" Like do I need
to hypothesize about a differentway my mom could have ended her
life? I mean, isn't the onething good enough? Right? It's,
it's already chroming don't addto that. But it made me realize
that people just simply don'tunderstand what this all means.
They don't know how to talkabout it. Because there is a
(17:26):
stigma from like, the everyangle you look at. There's a
stigma from the familyperspective, because they're
embarrassed, they're, they don'tknow how to explain what
happened. There's a stigma fromfrom those who've attempted,
because they think that peoplewill look at them different. But
that's why I feel like I have tobe as vulnerable and open as I
am. Because if people can seethat, in attempt, or even a
(17:50):
completion within your familydoesn't, it doesn't mean that's
the end of your sentence.
I have a very large, it'sroughly a three inch, semi colon
on my sternum, where it reallyhurt because there's not a lot
of space between your skin andin the bone itself. And it
really, really hurt. And, youknow, to me, it was me doing the
(18:11):
physical experience of goingthrough that pain, because it's
a reminder that I can getthrough this. But it's also a
reminder that none of this isthe end of my sentence. And that
the more people I can explainthat to, you know, yes, I've
attempted suicide three times inmy life, and I'm proud that I'm
still here. I beat thosemoments. And I am, I didn't end
(18:34):
up as something, I became apresident of a company, I ran
for Congress, I'm a DNCrepresentative. I've done these
things, despite what, you know,the hell I have been through.
I've done these things, despitethe hurdles that my mother's
suicide placed in front of mewhen I didn't ask for it. So,
and they can do the same thing.
You can become something despitewhat these hurdles are. But it
(18:58):
took me a long time to getthere. And what really made it
better for me is being thisvulnerable. I mean, I've been on
stages in front of thousands ofpeople, and there's no therapy
on Earth that's like that.
Because in that moment in thatspace, it feels like this is
exactly where I'm supposed tobe, this is exactly what I'm
(19:18):
supposed to be sharing. It makesme feel like I'm accomplishing
something. When I share mymother's death certificate on
her birthday a couple years ago,a good friend of mine, who's a
fellow contractor, came up to meat a fundraiser a few days after
I shared. And he said that hehad seen my mother's death
certificate, and a few daysbefore that he had been
considering self harm or evencompleting suicide. He said he
(19:40):
had literally put his AR-15 anda nine millimeter on his bed and
sat and stared at it. And justso happened to go on Facebook
and saw my mother's deathcertificate and saw what I had
said, and that's what saved hislife.
WowTherapy he can't do that for me.
Not to say that you know, I'mthe be all, end all. Or I'm
awesome, nothing like that. Butin that moment, you know, we
(20:01):
hear people talk all the timeabout, I want to change the
world. For this one person, Iwas able to do that I was able
to change his world, at leastchange that paradigm with which
he saw the world. There's valuein that. So if this burden is
something that I can't escape.
I'd rather do somethingpositive, like help save
(20:22):
someone's life, than let itcontrol me and make me believe
that this world shouldn't haveme in it.
Kelly Sampson (20:27):
What are some things about firearm suicide
that you both wish people knew?
Adam Friedman (20:32):
I feel like, there are two parts to that
question. The first thing is, Iwish that people who were
talking to someone like me who'shad this experience would be
accommodating and would ask ifit was okay to talk about or
check in ahead of time and notmake assumptions about why
someone died by suicide or whatthe context was around that.
(20:55):
Because I think it's really easyfor people to assume. It's
important for people tounderstand what that can entail,
so they understand why we needto avoid it. And I think it can
be draining to relive that painand that trauma. And what I will
say is for folks who are askingquestions just about the topic
in general, I think it's reallyimportant to recognize that this
happens to folks for verydifferent reasons, right? There
(21:18):
are a lot of different causesfor suicide, and for someone to
be at that place in their life.
And I think it's important torecognize ultimately, that, at
least for me, the way I see thisissue is, it isn't about someone
killing themselves. It isn'tabout why it happened or what
happened exactly, when we thinkabout prevention. For me, I
think about the statistics,knowing that if someone has
(21:39):
access to a firearm, there's a90% chance if they're using that
firearm to attempt suicide, thatit'll be effective, but it's
around a 4% chance for all othermethods of suicide. And I think
just that difference, andshowing that someone doesn't
have the means to die by gun,die by suicide, without time to
seek support. I think that's thedifference between life and
(22:03):
death in these situations. And Ihope that folks are able to
understand that little nuance inthe conversation that I think
makes the biggest difference andless so a broader conversation
about all the different factorsaround what led somebody to do
this.
Khary Penebaker (22:19):
This is not something that should be framed
in a, in a partisan framework,it should be one that should be
framed in a life savingframework. I don't care if
you're a Republican, I don'tcare if you own a gun or not.
But what I do want to explain toyou, if you do have a gun, there
are some things you need to becognizant of. My grandfather
(22:40):
gave my mother that gun for selfdefense. We hear this all the
time. All those talking pointsthat you know, the NRA and their
ilk want to throw out there .
You need a gun for self defense,all all this other stuff. You're
more likely to shoot and killsomeone that you love, or
yourself, than you are anassailant. My mom is proof of
that. I don't know what mygrandfather thought that she
(23:00):
was, you know, she neededprotection from. But someone
should have helped her protecther from her. They didn't think
about that. And I think too manypeople get caught in the fight,
whether it's the theatrics ofit, the romanticization of guns
and all of that, while ignoringthe undue risk you are
(23:23):
introducing into your house. Soif, you know, you would hope
someone, a parent would know themental condition of their child.
But in this case, you know, mymom had attempted suicide two
times before she shot and killedherself, that should have been a
perfect indication to them. Sheshould not have access to
(23:46):
something as lethal as a gun.
I will I will admit and concedethat in 1979 the conversations
about guns was far different.
The conversation of mentalhealth was nowhere even near
what it is now, and even nowit's still not good enough. But
people need to understand whatthey are bringing into the
(24:06):
house. But then also be willingto say "I'm a responsible gun
owner and I'm going to make surethat this gun is not easily
accessible by anyone in my housethat may not be of the right
mental capacity to have accessto this." Whether, you know, if
your wife, your partner isstruggling, I would say a gun
shouldn't be there. I would muchrather have my house robbed,
(24:29):
then have my life robbed of mymom, right? I would much rather
lose a TV than a loved one. Ican buy a new TV. I have
renter's insurance. I have houseinsurance. I've all the
insurance that I need to replacethe crap in my house. I cannot
replace my mom. Just it is mindboggling, how people don't see
(24:55):
the difference between stuff --and your loved one. I mean, you
know, we have more and moreyoung people that are completing
suicide. Now a lot of it is frombeing bullied at school. But yet
they have easy access to guns.
And too many parents ignore thatfact and say, you know, "I still
(25:17):
need this to protect my TV."That is flat out cruel -- it's
inhumane. You're only asking forone outcome. I wish more and
more people could not only justhear my story, there's more
stories like mine, this happensevery 22 minutes in our country.
But yet not enough people aretaking the right precautions to
(25:37):
prevent it from happening. Imean, this this idea that, "oh,
it'll never happen here." Howmany times you hear that after a
shooting? How many families saidthat after Sandy Hook? The
families here in Oak Creek,Wisconsin, after the mass
shooting we had in 2012 said thesame thing. We never thought it
would happen here. People thatwere in Las Vegas never thought
(25:58):
it would happen here. Everyshooting, you name it, is going
to say the same thing. When youget you know more isolated, down
to the gun suicides, whichhappen more frequently. No one
is sitting there saying, "Ohyeah, Joyce is going to shoot
and kill herself any moment. Westill need this gun later on."
It doesn't exist. We need to beproactive and not reactive. Too
(26:22):
many people are ignoring thatfirst part, and would rather
just believe the nonsense thanprotect their family the right
way.
JJ Janflone (26:30):
Well, in Khary and Adam, I know that you guys are
both much better at Twitter thanI am, very active on Twitter.
And one of the things that everytime I post an episode,
unfortunately, that deals withfirearm suicide, I get those
comments, right? But you know,isn't, you know, isn't someone
who is experiencing suicidalityaren't, aren't they going to
commit suicide by by any meansnecessary? You know, what, why
is it that this firearm matters?
Right instead of, sort of a car,or something to that effect. And
(26:52):
I think it's so important thatwe have these conversations,
because the means actually domatter a lot. Because guns are
just so lethal, people don't geta second chance. And so Adam, I
would love to even hear yourthoughts on this, because I
think I've heard you a few timesnow describe it beautifully.
Adam Friedman (27:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
And like you said, I thinkpeople don't understand that
because of the pain around thistopic, where it's hard to talk
about the fact that people willattempt suicide, or will try to
kill themselves with some othermeans and survive, and that's a
painful thing to discuss. Andit's important to recognize that
(27:30):
when someone survives a suicideattempt, they're a lot less
likely to pursue that methodagain. They're a lot less likely
to attempt suicide again, andultimately giving someone that's
second chance, is what I what Ireally want to talk about.
Because understanding thatnuance is understanding really
how to save a life at the end ofthe day.
Kelly Sampson (27:52):
You talked a little bit about one example of
how you can prevent someone incrisis from gaining access,
which is to take the gun out ofthe house. But I'm wondering
are, what are other ways thatpeople can protect people in
their lives who are goingthrough a crisis from gaining
access to a firearm, or if they,if they do have access to a
(28:14):
firearm, what are steps that youcan take to to really protect
them and give them another day?
Khary Penebaker (28:20):
I honestly think the most comprehensive way
and most direct way of savingsomeone's life is removing
access to any lethal means bywhich they can harm themselves.
One of the times I completed, orI had attempted suicide, I had
to spend a weekend at a mentalhospital here in Wisconsin. They
took my shoestrings, my belt,anything that I could use to
(28:42):
harm myself. I had to sit for 48hours in a padded room. I'm
completely isolated fromanything that I can use to arm
myself with granted, I willadmit that that is the the, you
know, the extremity of it. But Ithink making sure a person
doesn't have access to a gun,making sure they don't have
access to pills or alcohol --anything like that. If you
(29:04):
really thought about it thisway, if a person is a recovering
alcoholic, you're not going toleave open intoxicants around
them. If a person just got outof rehab because they were a
drug user and they just finallykicked it, you're not gonna
leave open bottles of Percocetand Vicodin around. So why would
we change that dynamic whenwe're talking about preventing
(29:26):
gun suicides? You cannot leave,you can't allow easy access to a
gun for someone who hasstruggled with mental illness,
whether they have struggled 10minutes ago or 10 years ago.
I think you need to have a clearseparation between that person
and a lethal means by which theycan harm themselves. And I think
(29:47):
it requires you to be flat outhonest, that you simply should
not have this, and here's why, Ivalue you more than I value that
gun, more than I value whateveryou think I need to protect.
That person is far more valuablethan any of those things. And I
think we miss that side of theequation. It's I mean, even in
(30:08):
the way that you frame thequestion, it's almost like,
well, how do you how do youstill get around some of these
other angles. To me, it's rathereasy. And I always like to say
this, because I've been through.
I said, the last time I hadattempted suicide, was with a
loaded nine millimeter. I hadthat gun in my mouth for at
least 30 minutes, I'm going toassure you gun oil is one of the
(30:28):
worst things you can ever taste.
I can taste it right now thatI'm talking about. And
thankfully, I had a cell phone,I was able to call my best
friend, he came over and I havenot touched the gun since, nor
should I. But, I mean, I seewhat I'm capable of doing. I
mean, there are friends whowould say, you know, hey, let's
go hunting, let's do thesethings like, No. I'm afraid of
(30:51):
what I might do. I don't, Idon't, I just don't want that,
that, that negative part in mylife, that, that that thing that
if that dark moment can hit,because there's no schedule for
it. Those dark moments come whenthey want to. If I had you know,
a lethal means by which I canhurt myself. Maybe I was at the
(31:12):
worst point ever, my copingmechanisms didn't kick in yet.
Now I got a gun to my head. Ican't have that. But I have gone
through all the things I need togo through therapy and training
all these things. But not enoughpeople so that, whether they
don't have access to mentalhealth care. Here in Wisconsin,
Right. Yeah,that is that is a backwards way
you can get a gun the same dayyou pass a background check.
(31:33):
of looking at humanity. You can,you can have access to something
There's no waiting period hereanymore. But you cannot get your
first mental health careappointment the day that you
that you can kill yourself orsomeone else with, but you can't
call.
Kelly Sampson (31:39):
Yes.
have immediate access to thething that might help save your
life today. There's somethingwrong with that. But you know,
I say that only to say thatI think more families need to ha
Adam Friedman (31:50):
I feel like there are a lot of conversations we
e more honest conversations wih each other, and realizing a
d appreciating the mental capaciy that they might be in, so t
at they don't have to end up aa Christmas dinner table with
an empty chair where that lovedne should have been because t
ey had too much easy access tohave that are conversations,
about how people don't have
Kelly Sampson (32:23):
Yeah, and it, I mean, it circles back, like you
certain conversations. And it'sdifficult because there's so
many different incrediblyimportant issues that we don't
have enough conversations aboutand don't fully understand. And
I think that's why there's somuch value in us having these
conversations, because the twoof us have dedicated so much of
our lives to this work. And Ithink it just takes someone to
feel comfortable with us andwhere we're coming from and, and
(32:46):
trust that what we say isaccurate and truthful because
we've done the work to ensure itis. And I hope, like, th
t listening and trust is conducie to folks working together
o have more of these kindsf conversations, or at least g
t the information they neesaid, to the point earlier about
stigma and honesty andvulnerability in these
conversations. Because, yeah,it's like, it's vulnerability on
(33:10):
the part of the person who isexperiencing crisis, but also on
the part of people in oursupport system to actually hear
too. And I know, I've been inthose situations myself, where
sometimes you want to dancearound it, and you're worried
about hurting someone'sfeelings, instead of just being
like, "Hey, I'm worried aboutyou. And it sounds like you are
(33:32):
thinking about hurtingyourself." So I'm gonna, you
know, just address it head onand, and kind of just have that
conversation and not worry somuch about, "Oh, my gosh," you
know, should "what, what if theythink I'm overreacting" or
something like that. So I'm gladyou pointed that out.
JJ Janflone (33:51):
And again, this is so striking to me, because, and
I say this a lot on here, butthese are people -- not stories.
You know we're, in the US, we'relosing up to 63 people a day due
to firearm suicide. That, thatis, that that number is
unbelievable. And really, thatthere are so many comments on
things we could be doing tobring it down is shocking.
Adam Friedman (34:11):
Absolutely. It's, I always think about the idea
that you can, you can quantify,you know, death in numbers, but
you can't quantify pain. All youcan do is listen to stories, and
feel that emotion that's beingshared with you. And understand
that, you know, after listeningto one, two, three people share
their pain with you, that'salready too much. And then to
(34:32):
recognize that you felt that wayafter just listening to a few
folks. And there are, you know,10, 20 thousand more or more
people times that, right? Likethere are 40,000 folks who are
lost. I think to feel that, thattiny fraction of it, is really
understanding the qualitativecomponent, which is so much more
(34:53):
painful to do, but I think justas important as understanding
the statistics.
JJ Janflone (34:57):
I think that's all sort of getting people to value
themselves, though I thinkthat's sort of what we're
talking about too. And valuinglife, over say, like, things
like even like gun ownership,like valuing a person more than
that, because people have, Imean, and I'll link them in the
description of the episode. Butthere's, there's hotlines, you
can call, there's mental healthresources you can access. But
you're right, when it comes tolike, being able, there are
(35:20):
places in the US where I canliterally walk in, same day, and
walk out with a gun. It's notnecessarily the same for me
walking in and, you know,getting a mental health
professional that I can afford.
Khary Penebaker (35:32):
Right.
JJ Janflone (35:33):
And and that's difficult. I think that that's a
difficult thing we have toreckon with,
Khary Penebaker (35:40):
Mhm. And it's something like here in
Wisconsin, we had a 48 hourwaiting period, we had that for
40 years. And the politician whowrote it back in the 70s,
specifically wrote it for crimesof passion, and self harm. And
then it got repealed in 2015.
Because they deemed it to be atime tax. And when I would talk
to people about this, I'm like,"How much time do you think it
(36:01):
takes to plan a funeral?" Right?
I mean, so if you have to waittwo days to get a gun, is that
worth the time it might take forfamily that the planet funeral?
Because a person had immediateaccess to a gun, but didn't have
immediate access to mentalhealth care, does that seem fair
(36:22):
to you? Now, I mean, you know,reasonable people will get that.
But politicians aren't alwaysreasonable, nor are they always
smart. But even still, I wouldmuch rather tell people what I
have struggled through, whatI've dealt with, so that they
too, can find that they can dothis too. They can get on a
podcast and talk about thethings that they're struggling
(36:45):
with, because I think the morepeople who talk about it means
the more people who will talkabout it, it's more people will
talk about it. And not only willthat cycle end, but so will this
idea that there's this stigmapreventing us from advancing
past this. I mean, there are toomany people who just stuck in
isolation, who just feel likethey're all alone, whether they
(37:09):
are the ones consideringself-harm themselves, or
struggling with the after effectof someone like my mom, who shot
and killed themselves. Theywill, there's no dummies guide
to this. There's no organizationon the planet that can guide me
through what I have to dealwith. There's not a single one
of y'all that can tell me how Ican keep putting two feet on the
(37:32):
ground every morning, when I getout of bed. No one can tell me
how to do that, I have toexperience it myself. But the
more I do it, I can help letother people know, y'all can do
this too. And it's thanks toorganizations like Brady and
Everytown, and all these otherorganizations that bring these
survivor stories together sothat we're not just telling the
(37:55):
heartbreaking side, we'retelling the survivor side.
And that, I think what getsmissed in some of these
conversations, when we talkpurely about policy, I have to
survive every single day. That'sa process -- and it ain't easy.
But the more people that get tosee how that process works, the
more they can emulate itthemselves or find a process
(38:16):
that works for them. So you havefewer and fewer people who end
up like my mom. You know, manyof us, me included, always say
that we want to change theworld. But not everybody can do
that. You know, we can, there'sonly one Barack Obama, right.
And so the way that people canalso change the world is by a
(38:37):
random act of kindness. When yousee someone walking on the
street, smile. Open a door forsomeone, by a person some
coffee, or buy the lunch for theperson standing behind you in
the in the line of McDonald's orwhatever the case, because you
don't know the demon that thatperson might be facing. You
don't know if that person mightbe in such a state where
(39:02):
isolation is all they see, likethey feel like they're on this
island by themselves, that'scovered with a black cloud, and
it's only raining on them. Butthat one moment of kindness can
literally change their life. Ifmore people did that, maybe once
or twice a week, think of thelives that we could save.
Because, you know there thosetimes when I've attempted
(39:25):
suicide or I've thought aboutit, that's because I felt like
no one could see me. But thinkabout when you're walking down
the street, when people are justsimply looking down at their
phone, or ignoring the lightthat's around them, try to be
nice to someone. Try to changesomeone's life just by being
kind to them. And as EricaLafferty's, Mom, Dawn would say,
(39:46):
"Be nice to each other. It'sreally all that matters."
Kelly Sampson (39:50):
I mean, that's a really relevant reminder,
especially right now, where Ifeel like when I do leave my
house, which isn't often. ButI'm wearing a mask and, kind of,
totally absorbed in my ownconcerns about my own life. And,
you know, it's to, to rememberto look up and pay attention to
(40:10):
the people around me, reallyimportant.
Khary Penebaker (40:12):
I absolutely agree.
Kelly Sampson (40:14):
And before we have to say goodbye, Adam, I'm
just wondering if you could telllisteners a little bit more
about Brady's initiatives likeEnd Family Fire.
Adam Friedman (40:22):
Yeah, I've been really thankful for the
opportunity to talk about mystory, and, End Family Fire,
which is an effort that I'm verylucky to be a part of,
encouraging folks to safely andsecurely store their firearms at
home, keeping their weaponunloaded and ammunition stored
separately, because especiallywhen it comes to gun suicide,
(40:44):
which is, that makes up twothirds of gun deaths in our
country, the difference betweenhaving access to a firearm and
not for someone in a moment ofcrisis is literally the
difference between life anddeath. And I think it's so
important for us to be able tobe there for folks who are
struggling and provide them thatsecond chance, ensuring that,
you know, they can get the helpthey need the support they need
(41:06):
from their loved ones, and theirfirearms are safely stored and
secured.
What I'd say is, to anyone whohas a loved one who might be in
a moment of crisis, it'sessential to reach out and have
a conversation with them,especially about firearms if
they have firearms in the home.
End Family Fire has a greatguide on their website and
(41:26):
Endfamilyfire.org. What I'd sayis, if you live in one of the
states that has any sort ofextreme risk protection laws,
you know, someone is in a momentof crisis, that's another avenue
to access, where you can gobefore a judge and explain the
situation, and why someone's ata moment of crisis, and then
that person can have theirfirearms restrained for a period
(41:49):
of generally a couple of weeks,and then they're returned after
that person has been able to getthe help that they need. What
I'd say is in addition to that,you know, if it feels right, for
anyone who's listening to takeaction, I know on this podcast,
that's most of what you talkabout, is to get involved. But I
think it's so important torecognize that it doesn't need
(42:13):
to take this issue of affectingyou personally to get involved.
And also, for anyone who hasbeen personally affected,
especially by gun suicide, it'simportant to recognize that
you're not alone in yourexperience. There are so many
folks who have the sameexperience you do and who will
be here to support you if youever do decide to take on this
(42:36):
work, and fight for thesolutions that we're working
toward.
JJ Janflone (42:43):
Adam, Khary I want to thank you all, on behalf of
Kelly and I both, so much forcoming on today, for sharing
your stories, and for continuingto fight for gun violence
prevention. We really appreciateit.
So we've talked about guns inairports, and I've told Kelly
about guns in toys. But now Ihave to tell you about gun
(43:04):
magazines in toys at airports.
Unfortunately agents with theTransportation Security
Administration, aka the TSAfound two high capacity
magazines inside a baby toy boxduring a bag check at Orlando
International Airport earlierthis month. TSA says the gun
magazines were discovered afteran X-ray screening showed
something odd in the package.
Officers did a bag check, andfound a toy box that was made to
(43:25):
look like it had been factorysealed, but, in fact, had gun
magazines inside. Now rememberfirearms are not allowed in
carry on baggage on airplanes.
If TSA finds a gun and carry onbag, the person with the bag can
be fined up to $13,000 andpossibly arrested. Earlier this
week, TSA officials said thatthey had stopped 84 guns from
going through at OrlandoInternational Airport this year
(43:45):
alone.
I begin this week's news wrap upby celebrating those who
continue to fight for gunviolence prevention. In
Lexington, Kentucky the sixthannual peace walk in Duncan Park
was held by activist AnitaFranklin son, Ricardo Franklin.
Anita, who began the event in2014 after her son Antonio was
(44:06):
killed by gun violence at thepark, sadly died this February
of a heart attack. Her sonRicardo has continued the event
in her, and his brother's,memory.
I also have to mark theremembrances of two mass
shootings, the 2017 Las Vegasshooting the 2015 Umpqua
shooting. On October 1, 2017 58people were killed, and more
than 800 injured, at the route91 Harvest Outdoor Country Music
(44:28):
Festival on the Las Vegas Strip,with a crowd of more than 22,000
people. Between 10 (44:32):
05 and 10:15pm, the shooter fired more
than 1000 rounds of ammunitionfrom his 32nd floor room in the
Mandalay Bay hotel. Since 2017,two others went on to die from
their wounds, including KimberlyGervais, 57, who died in 2019 as
a result of spinal injuries fromthe shooting. And most recently,
(44:53):
Samanta Arjune, 49, who diedearlier this month from
complications with a gunshotwound to her left leg. With more
than 60 people killed, theincident is the deadliest mass
shooting committed by anindividual in modern United
States history.
On the same day, two yearsearlier, nine people were killed
and eight wounded at the UmpquaCommunity College in Oregon,
when a student open fire insidethe campuses Snyder hall. That
(45:14):
mass shooting was the deadliestin Oregon's modern history.
Are you interested in sharingwith the podcast? Listeners can
get in touch with us here atRed, Blue and Brady via phone or
text message. Simply call ortext us at 480-744-3452 with
your thoughts, questions,concerns, ideas, whatever!
And you know what else you canshare? Chocolate. Come join me
(45:37):
in eating your 2020 feelings byshopping Hu's Kitchen Chocolate
which is free of dairy, gluten,refined sugar, palm oil and cane
sugar. My personal favorite arethe dark gems. It's a bag
bursting with 70% darkchocolate, paleo style. Click on
the link in the description ofour episode to help support the
show and to buy you or yourloved ones some tasty treats.
(45:58):
Thanks for listening. As always,Brady's life saving work in
Congress, the courts andcommunities across the country
is made possible thanks to you.
For more information on Brady orhow to get involved in the fight
against gun violence, pleaselike and subscribe to the
podcast, get in touch with us atBradyunited.org or on social
@Bradybuzz. Be brave andremember -- take action not
sides.
Hey everybody, this is the legal disclaimer where I
tell you that the views,thoughts and opinions shared on
this podcast belong solely toour guests and hosts, and not
necessarily Brady or Brady'saffiliates. Please note this
podcast contains discussions ofviolence that some people may
find disturbing. It's okay -- wefind it disturbing too.
(00:40):
Welcome back to another episodeof "Red, Blue and Brady."
Today's episode I'm going towarn you might be a little bit
more triggering than some otherones. I know that we talk about
a lot of really hard things onthis podcast but today
specifically, we are talkingabout firearm suicide. And I,
and Kelly, are lucky enough tobe joined by two fantastic
(01:01):
individuals. First up, we haveKhary Penebaker, we also have
with us, Adam Friedman, a memberof the Team Enough Executive
Council. We're here not justtalking about a new aspect of
Brady's End Family Fireinitiative, but also what it's
like to lose a beloved familymember to firearm suicide. Then,
(01:21):
in our "unbelievable but"section, I'm telling you all
about guns at airports. Again, Iknow, I'm sorry, I'm probably
making y'all terrified totravel. Finally, in our news
wrap up, we mark those whocontinue to fight for gun
violence prevention, and microremembrances of two mass
shootings. So Khary, Adam, Kellyand I are so happy to have you
(01:46):
with us. And I'm wondering if wecan just start by having you
know, in your own words,introduce yourself.
Khary Penebaker (01:50):
My name is Khary Penebaker. I am a gun
violence survivor for the last41 years of my life. My mom
Joyce Penebaker shot and killedherself on September 8, 1979.
Adam Friedman (02:02):
Hi, my name is Adam Friedman. I'm a student at
the George WashingtonUniversity, and one of the
national lobbying coordinatorsfor Team Enough.
Kelly Sampson (02:10):
If you all would be willing, and if it's not
uncomfortable for you, would youboth mind sharing your stories?
Khary Penebaker (02:17):
Well, so the first thing is, is that to go to
your question about the whetherthe question is personal or not.
I've done this so many times,this is almost therapeutic for
me to share my story and bevulnerable. I get more value out
of this than going to actualtherapy, because I get to talk
about it in my terms, not intherapeutic terms. And it just
feels better to kind of keepthis off my chest. Cause I know
(02:39):
that when I share my story, ithelps other people who are
struggling with the same thing,whether they have survived a
suicide attempt themselves, orsomeone else they know has
completed it, they can find away to talk about it in their
own way. So there's no questionthat kind of throws me off. S
don't worry about that.
But I was roughly 20 months oldwhen my mom shot and killed
herself. So I don't know, thelittle parts about her that I
(03:02):
know has been given to methird-hand. I have like maybe 50
or less pictures of her andthey're all faded, that 1970s
orangish kind of color that youdon't need a Instagram filter
for anymore. But the majority ofmy life up until about age nine
or ten, they had told me my momdied of an illness. And I guess
in a way, that's that's true,except the illness itself did
(03:25):
not in her life -- a bullet did.
And it was around nine or tenthat I heard, I overheard my
aunt say that my mom shotherself. But I still didn't
conceptualize it. It reallywasn't until I was actually 18
years old, my dad had beenworking on a house, I was a
senior in high school. And Iremember this day like it was
this morning. And I wasrummaging through his stuff just
(03:46):
like young folks tend to do,except there sometimes when you
rummage through things, youmight find something you don't
want to see. And I have found100 copies of my mother's death
certificate. And it was like, itwas like a kick in the teeth. I
was not anticipating that Iwould find, it wasn't looking
for it, I surely wasn't lookingfor 100 copies of it, and it
(04:07):
like destroyed my world. Becauseat that point, I felt like they
had lied to me. They didn't tellme the truth about my mom, the
real illness that had grippedher, and led her down the path o
self harm and completinsuicide. But the downside t
looking at that deatcertificate is that I did no
look at her birth. All I saw wa"shot self with revolver." An
(04:27):
I literally there was a, Iad longer hair at tim,e I litera
ly pulled a patch of hair ou. I had to go to like intense th
rapy for a few weeks. I didn't gto school for, I think two wee
s, because I was, just I felt lie empty. And it was the firs
time that it like really crystllized, at least in that minds
t, that my mom left. That does't mean that was her intent. In
(04:50):
fact, if you look at somef the tweets and the speeches
that I give, I've referenced tat, like her leaving me, onl
as a way to segue into me forgving her and realizing that her
shooting and killing herself washer way of, I guess, thinking
that my world was better off witout her, as if she were a detrim
nt or a burden to me or thatshe could have been as I grew
(05:13):
up, and that's something thattry to do. So that people who
are struggling with whether orot to complete suicide them
elves, if they think, they stp thinking that they're a bu
den, because my world, I can asure you is not better off with
ut her. And my, you know, my da, obviously has been my dad
or almost 43 years now. And myom shot and killed herself.
1 years ago, we've only talkeabout her suicide three times.
(05:35):
And the first time wasn't untl 2015. So this is something
hat I don't have a lot of likehat family-relat
JJ Janflone (05:44):
Well and Adam I know, your experience is
slightly different, because youand your grandfather were
actually really close you, youand he spent a lot of time
together before he passed.
Adam Friedman (05:55):
When I was 13 years old, I lost my grandfather
to gun suicide. It wasincredibly hard for me. And I
didn't know what to do in thewake of it. My grandfather was
my hero, I looked up to him, hisspontaneity and love of just
existing. Tt has informed somuch of who I am today and what
(06:18):
I hold close. And for him to besuch a larger than life
character for me, and thensuddenly lose him in the way
that I did through suicide, andspecifically gun suicide, I
really didn't know what to do. Iremember just a few days after
his suicide, sitting in his oldapartment, waiting for cleaners
(06:40):
to leave his office thinkingabout why someone would do what
he did and, and what I wassupposed to do now with this,
you know, 13 year old mentalityof life being shattered in a
way. And it wasn't till I'd saya few months, maybe even a year
or so later, that I started tomeet other folks who had similar
(07:02):
experiences to the one that thatI had to endure. And I began to
realize that not only was I notalone, in having a loved one die
by gun suicide, but I wasactually part of a really big
group in America. And being ableto connect with other people and
heal through action, has reallyenabled me to find community in
(07:25):
that pain. But also turn thatpain into something powerful,
productive and healing, and findgrowth in ensuring that other
folks don't have to go throughthat same pain that I had to go
through. And I think a lot ofthat, for me, comes down to what
I'm doing right now, which issharing my voice and my story,
however I can, to ensure thatanyone who listens can
(07:48):
understand that there are littlethings we can do to ensure that
these situations are ones thatdon't have to happen. I hope if
one person can get that messageand take action in their own
life, take action in the life ofa loved one, I'll feel like this
work is meaningful andworthwhile.
JJ Janflone (08:07):
And I want to jump in Khary, because I know when
when you started researchingyour mom, and you ended up
talking to your friends, thatthere were a few things you
learned that that impacted you alot, and have, in turn, I think
really impacted you're reallyimpacted your gun violence
prevention policies. I'mwondering if you could talk
about that a little bit.
Khary Penebaker (08:25):
I also learned that my mother was, not only
severely mentally unwell, butwas an alcoholic. I learned that
a month before she shot andkilled herself that she had told
her best friend that she wantedto die. And so when you when you
go from sharing my story intopolicy, that's that's usually
what I talk about. How a monthbefore she died, she's telling
(08:48):
her best friend that she wantedto die, but yet, no one thought
"let's make sure we that Joycedoesn't have her gun." And so we
can talk later whether it's selfstorage, or safe storage or
extreme risk protection orders,this is something that could
have saved my mother's life.
That doesn't mean she wouldautomatically be alive today
because this was her thirdattempt, but it could have
helped her stay alive one moreday. One more day after that,
(09:12):
one more day after that.
Suicideality requires aday-by-day approach, not you
know, "hey, 10 years from nowyou're going to be okay." It
wasn't until I was I think maybe39 or 40 that I actually learned
my mother's birthday, bought herdeath certificate online.
Because I couldn't ask myfamily, I definitely wasn't
going to ask my dad. Becausewhile, my mom shot and killed
(09:34):
herself so did his wife. And nowwhile I can, I can sit with
fellow gun violence survivorswhether it's Sandy or Richard
Martinez, Erica, whoever, and wecan have that moment. But I
can't do it with my father. It'sa it's a different dynamic and
watching your father cry issomething that, you know, it's
beyond heartbreaking. So Ididn't ask him her birthday. And
(09:54):
when I was 18, again, I didn'tlook at what the birthday was.
So I bought it and I remembergetting it in the mail. And it
was it was like the worst gutwrenching feeling thing I've
ever had. Like, it's just I wasI was angry and hurt. And then
for her birthday, which is June25, I put on Facebook, I
(10:14):
included her death certificate,but I also said in this moment
for your birthday, I want toforgive you for this. And what
that really meant is that I'mjust releasing the anger myself.
Not that I don't know how youforgive someone. I mean, people
say that all the time, but whatdoes that really mean? I don't
know. I think it's a personalthing. It's a selfish thing. I
needed to let go of somethingand not be angry, because the
(10:35):
anger was really mixing withdepression, and causing me like
when that that dark wave comes,it was even worse when anger is
involved. Because in some cases,in the times that I've attempted
suicide, it's more about like Iwant, I want to, I want to hurt
you for hurting me, right? Like,I want to get back at you for
this, I want to get back at myfamily, I want to get back at my
(10:56):
mom, and take me away from you.
But in the end, I don't reallywant to do that. I don't want to
hurt anybody, I surely don'twant to hurt myself. But this
has taken a long process to getto where I am today. Even when
those thoughts of self harmcreep into my brain, I have the
coping mechanisms in place toknow what I have to do. I know
the steps I need to take, I knoweverything I need to do to get
(11:17):
out of that moment. Butultimately, I know that this
moment will pass. And that'susually the thing that I say to
myself when it happens like"this too shall pass." While
it's hard to grasp what you'regoing to the depths of that,
those those dark moments, I knowit to be true. But I also know
that depression is lying to me,just like it lied to my mom and
made her believe that my worldwas better off without her. But
(11:39):
I know that my three childrenare going to be better off with
me, so that's where I am today.
Kelly Sampson (11:46):
I just want to thank you for I know, you've
said that, you know, you sharedthe story so much. But I do just
want to thank you for sharing itas openly as you did and being
so vulnerable. I'm struck bythat, because it is, I think,
even though we have this cultureof social media, and sharing,
there's still a lot of stigmaaround being vulnerable, or
(12:09):
talking about, you know, as youmentioned, even your own
experiences of depression andfeelings of self harm. So I just
want to thank you for modelingwhat that looks like. And that
kind of leads to the questionof, you know, not only do we
have stigmas in our societyaround talking about
vulnerability, or mental healthissues, you know, you can say,
(12:30):
"Oh, I have some anxiety," butyou can't really say "I have
anxiety and I'm thinking of selfharm," or you know, things like
that. And we talk about suicide,especially firearm suicide
there, there are these taboos.
And I'm wondering if you couldtalk a little bit about why you
think those taboos still exist,and how can we normalize having
conversations that can savesomeone's life? Or like you
(12:52):
said, at least give them anotherday.
Adam Friedman (12:55):
Yeah, absolutely.
I appreciate you saying that. Ithink it's so easy for us to
feel like this can't happen inour lives, this won't happen to
us. And it won't, until it does.
I think that's the thing that Itry to remind folks. I know that
these conversations can be hardto have, it's hard to talk about
gun, gun violence, it's hard totalk about suicide. And as I can
(13:16):
share from personal experience,it's much much harder to lose
someone you love to a gun,because those conversations
didn't happen. So I'd say youknow, to anyone who feels like
this can't happen to me, I thinkit's worth just not taking that
chance. I think it's importantfor people to recognize that
everyone is human, and peoplestruggle, that's part of life.
(13:40):
It's okay to go through a momentof crisis, and that's why it's
referred to as that, right?
People who experience moments ofcrisis are in a time of
additional pain and exertionwhere the state that they're in
isn't their permanent state. Andit's up to us to support them
and help them get through that.
And I think when folks are inthat state, when they're going
through a moment of crisis, theidea of ensuring their firearms
(14:02):
are secured isn't aboutrestricting access to a firearm
at all. I think it's aboutensuring that someone can get
the help that they need. And atleast in my experience, what
I've seen is that, for example,in the case of my grandfather,
having access to a firearm, itwasn't about him having access
to a gun for us. That wasn'tlike the the central issue. It
(14:22):
wasn't a question of gun rightsor anything like that. In the
wake of his suicide, I think theenduring thing we were all
wondering was, if he didn't haveaccess to that gun, would he
still be alive, understandingthat he had lived with guns in
his home for years before. Hewas a veteran. He was someone
who had been, you know,stationed overseas, had that
experience, and then come backhome lived with really
(14:46):
dilapidating, excruciating PTSDfor a number of years, was
consistently going to therapy.
And then it just took one dayfor all of that to break down in
that moment of crisis. And Ithink that's what's so important
for people to understand, right?
Is that, you know, someone canbe fine or seem fine, and we
don't always know what's goingon beneath that. But ultimately,
(15:07):
there are ways for us to checkin, and ways for us to be
cautious and accommodating toensure that what happened to my
grandfather doesn't have tohappen to anyone else.
Khary Penebaker (15:16):
So I may start from from an odd angle. Last,
last year, my good friend, CoryBooker, when he was running for
president, decided he was goingto, after hearing my story,
probably the 10th time. Hecalled me and said, "Hey, Khary,
you know what, I don't want tobe one of those politicians who
listens to your story," and thenyou know, they'll feel sorry,
(15:38):
and they'll they'll give youtheir well wishes and give you
the happy talk. He's like, " Iactually want to do something
about it." So in hispresidential platform, he
included specific policydirected at suicide prevention,
and even included gun suicideprevention. So he and I did this
town hall event here inMilwaukee. Last April. And you
know, heartbreaking. One of thethings that I said at the end
(16:01):
was, and I say this all thetime, I remind people that it is
okay not to be okay. Andespecially for men, it is okay
to admit that you need help. Itdoesn't make you less of a man
to do that. I think it makes youstronger as a person to, to own
where you are, especially youryour mental state, and want to
better yourself, right? Me, Itry to explain to people in the
(16:23):
sense that if you are wanting togo lift weights, and you feel
like you're overweight, or youwant to gain weight back, or
pack on some pounds, whatever itmight be. Do you feel less than
a person? Because you'readmitting you want to change
yourself, physically? Of coursenot. So why would you be less of
a person, if you do it mentally?
It's harder to do it mentally.
(16:43):
And I think it takes an immenseamount of courage to do that,
and should make you feel likeyou're that much stronger, for
being able to have admitted thatand then done the work to get
the help that you need. So atthis event, this guy comes up
after me, after the event, andcomes up to me and says, and I
get this all the time. But hesaid, Do you think your mom
(17:04):
would have completed suicide ifshe didn't have that gun? I'm
thinking to myself, like, "Areyou kidding me?" Like do I need
to hypothesize about a differentway my mom could have ended her
life? I mean, isn't the onething good enough? Right? It's,
it's already chroming don't addto that. But it made me realize
that people just simply don'tunderstand what this all means.
They don't know how to talkabout it. Because there is a
(17:26):
stigma from like, the everyangle you look at. There's a
stigma from the familyperspective, because they're
embarrassed, they're, they don'tknow how to explain what
happened. There's a stigma fromfrom those who've attempted,
because they think that peoplewill look at them different. But
that's why I feel like I have tobe as vulnerable and open as I
am. Because if people can seethat, in attempt, or even a
(17:50):
completion within your familydoesn't, it doesn't mean that's
the end of your sentence.
I have a very large, it'sroughly a three inch, semi colon
on my sternum, where it reallyhurt because there's not a lot
of space between your skin andin the bone itself. And it
really, really hurt. And, youknow, to me, it was me doing the
(18:11):
physical experience of goingthrough that pain, because it's
a reminder that I can getthrough this. But it's also a
reminder that none of this isthe end of my sentence. And that
the more people I can explainthat to, you know, yes, I've
attempted suicide three times inmy life, and I'm proud that I'm
still here. I beat thosemoments. And I am, I didn't end
(18:34):
up as something, I became apresident of a company, I ran
for Congress, I'm a DNCrepresentative. I've done these
things, despite what, you know,the hell I have been through.
I've done these things, despitethe hurdles that my mother's
suicide placed in front of mewhen I didn't ask for it. So,
and they can do the same thing.
You can become something despitewhat these hurdles are. But it
(18:58):
took me a long time to getthere. And what really made it
better for me is being thisvulnerable. I mean, I've been on
stages in front of thousands ofpeople, and there's no therapy
on Earth that's like that.
Because in that moment in thatspace, it feels like this is
exactly where I'm supposed tobe, this is exactly what I'm
(19:18):
supposed to be sharing. It makesme feel like I'm accomplishing
something. When I share mymother's death certificate on
her birthday a couple years ago,a good friend of mine, who's a
fellow contractor, came up to meat a fundraiser a few days after
I shared. And he said that hehad seen my mother's death
certificate, and a few daysbefore that he had been
considering self harm or evencompleting suicide. He said he
(19:40):
had literally put his AR-15 anda nine millimeter on his bed and
sat and stared at it. And justso happened to go on Facebook
and saw my mother's deathcertificate and saw what I had
said, and that's what saved hislife.
WowTherapy he can't do that for me.
Not to say that you know, I'mthe be all, end all. Or I'm
awesome, nothing like that. Butin that moment, you know, we
(20:01):
hear people talk all the timeabout, I want to change the
world. For this one person, Iwas able to do that I was able
to change his world, at leastchange that paradigm with which
he saw the world. There's valuein that. So if this burden is
something that I can't escape.
I'd rather do somethingpositive, like help save
(20:22):
someone's life, than let itcontrol me and make me believe
that this world shouldn't haveme in it.
Kelly Sampson (20:27):
What are some things about firearm suicide
that you both wish people knew?
Adam Friedman (20:32):
I feel like, there are two parts to that
question. The first thing is, Iwish that people who were
talking to someone like me who'shad this experience would be
accommodating and would ask ifit was okay to talk about or
check in ahead of time and notmake assumptions about why
someone died by suicide or whatthe context was around that.
(20:55):
Because I think it's really easyfor people to assume. It's
important for people tounderstand what that can entail,
so they understand why we needto avoid it. And I think it can
be draining to relive that painand that trauma. And what I will
say is for folks who are askingquestions just about the topic
in general, I think it's reallyimportant to recognize that this
happens to folks for verydifferent reasons, right? There
(21:18):
are a lot of different causesfor suicide, and for someone to
be at that place in their life.
And I think it's important torecognize ultimately, that, at
least for me, the way I see thisissue is, it isn't about someone
killing themselves. It isn'tabout why it happened or what
happened exactly, when we thinkabout prevention. For me, I
think about the statistics,knowing that if someone has
(21:39):
access to a firearm, there's a90% chance if they're using that
firearm to attempt suicide, thatit'll be effective, but it's
around a 4% chance for all othermethods of suicide. And I think
just that difference, andshowing that someone doesn't
have the means to die by gun,die by suicide, without time to
seek support. I think that's thedifference between life and
(22:03):
death in these situations. And Ihope that folks are able to
understand that little nuance inthe conversation that I think
makes the biggest difference andless so a broader conversation
about all the different factorsaround what led somebody to do
this.
Khary Penebaker (22:19):
This is not something that should be framed
in a, in a partisan framework,it should be one that should be
framed in a life savingframework. I don't care if
you're a Republican, I don'tcare if you own a gun or not.
But what I do want to explain toyou, if you do have a gun, there
are some things you need to becognizant of. My grandfather
(22:40):
gave my mother that gun for selfdefense. We hear this all the
time. All those talking pointsthat you know, the NRA and their
ilk want to throw out there .
You need a gun for self defense,all all this other stuff. You're
more likely to shoot and killsomeone that you love, or
yourself, than you are anassailant. My mom is proof of
that. I don't know what mygrandfather thought that she
(23:00):
was, you know, she neededprotection from. But someone
should have helped her protecther from her. They didn't think
about that. And I think too manypeople get caught in the fight,
whether it's the theatrics ofit, the romanticization of guns
and all of that, while ignoringthe undue risk you are
(23:23):
introducing into your house. Soif, you know, you would hope
someone, a parent would know themental condition of their child.
But in this case, you know, mymom had attempted suicide two
times before she shot and killedherself, that should have been a
perfect indication to them. Sheshould not have access to
(23:46):
something as lethal as a gun.
I will I will admit and concedethat in 1979 the conversations
about guns was far different.
The conversation of mentalhealth was nowhere even near
what it is now, and even nowit's still not good enough. But
people need to understand whatthey are bringing into the
(24:06):
house. But then also be willingto say "I'm a responsible gun
owner and I'm going to make surethat this gun is not easily
accessible by anyone in my housethat may not be of the right
mental capacity to have accessto this." Whether, you know, if
your wife, your partner isstruggling, I would say a gun
shouldn't be there. I would muchrather have my house robbed,
(24:29):
then have my life robbed of mymom, right? I would much rather
lose a TV than a loved one. Ican buy a new TV. I have
renter's insurance. I have houseinsurance. I've all the
insurance that I need to replacethe crap in my house. I cannot
replace my mom. Just it is mindboggling, how people don't see
(24:55):
the difference between stuff --and your loved one. I mean, you
know, we have more and moreyoung people that are completing
suicide. Now a lot of it is frombeing bullied at school. But yet
they have easy access to guns.
And too many parents ignore thatfact and say, you know, "I still
(25:17):
need this to protect my TV."That is flat out cruel -- it's
inhumane. You're only asking forone outcome. I wish more and
more people could not only justhear my story, there's more
stories like mine, this happensevery 22 minutes in our country.
But yet not enough people aretaking the right precautions to
(25:37):
prevent it from happening. Imean, this this idea that, "oh,
it'll never happen here." Howmany times you hear that after a
shooting? How many families saidthat after Sandy Hook? The
families here in Oak Creek,Wisconsin, after the mass
shooting we had in 2012 said thesame thing. We never thought it
would happen here. People thatwere in Las Vegas never thought
(25:58):
it would happen here. Everyshooting, you name it, is going
to say the same thing. When youget you know more isolated, down
to the gun suicides, whichhappen more frequently. No one
is sitting there saying, "Ohyeah, Joyce is going to shoot
and kill herself any moment. Westill need this gun later on."
It doesn't exist. We need to beproactive and not reactive. Too
(26:22):
many people are ignoring thatfirst part, and would rather
just believe the nonsense thanprotect their family the right
way.
JJ Janflone (26:30):
Well, in Khary and Adam, I know that you guys are
both much better at Twitter thanI am, very active on Twitter.
And one of the things that everytime I post an episode,
unfortunately, that deals withfirearm suicide, I get those
comments, right? But you know,isn't, you know, isn't someone
who is experiencing suicidalityaren't, aren't they going to
commit suicide by by any meansnecessary? You know, what, why
is it that this firearm matters?
Right instead of, sort of a car,or something to that effect. And
(26:52):
I think it's so important thatwe have these conversations,
because the means actually domatter a lot. Because guns are
just so lethal, people don't geta second chance. And so Adam, I
would love to even hear yourthoughts on this, because I
think I've heard you a few timesnow describe it beautifully.
Adam Friedman (27:09):
Yeah, absolutely.
And like you said, I thinkpeople don't understand that
because of the pain around thistopic, where it's hard to talk
about the fact that people willattempt suicide, or will try to
kill themselves with some othermeans and survive, and that's a
painful thing to discuss. Andit's important to recognize that
(27:30):
when someone survives a suicideattempt, they're a lot less
likely to pursue that methodagain. They're a lot less likely
to attempt suicide again, andultimately giving someone that's
second chance, is what I what Ireally want to talk about.
Because understanding thatnuance is understanding really
how to save a life at the end ofthe day.
Kelly Sampson (27:52):
You talked a little bit about one example of
how you can prevent someone incrisis from gaining access,
which is to take the gun out ofthe house. But I'm wondering
are, what are other ways thatpeople can protect people in
their lives who are goingthrough a crisis from gaining
access to a firearm, or if they,if they do have access to a
(28:14):
firearm, what are steps that youcan take to to really protect
them and give them another day?
Khary Penebaker (28:20):
I honestly think the most comprehensive way
and most direct way of savingsomeone's life is removing
access to any lethal means bywhich they can harm themselves.
One of the times I completed, orI had attempted suicide, I had
to spend a weekend at a mentalhospital here in Wisconsin. They
took my shoestrings, my belt,anything that I could use to
(28:42):
harm myself. I had to sit for 48hours in a padded room. I'm
completely isolated fromanything that I can use to arm
myself with granted, I willadmit that that is the the, you
know, the extremity of it. But Ithink making sure a person
doesn't have access to a gun,making sure they don't have
access to pills or alcohol --anything like that. If you
(29:04):
really thought about it thisway, if a person is a recovering
alcoholic, you're not going toleave open intoxicants around
them. If a person just got outof rehab because they were a
drug user and they just finallykicked it, you're not gonna
leave open bottles of Percocetand Vicodin around. So why would
we change that dynamic whenwe're talking about preventing
(29:26):
gun suicides? You cannot leave,you can't allow easy access to a
gun for someone who hasstruggled with mental illness,
whether they have struggled 10minutes ago or 10 years ago.
I think you need to have a clearseparation between that person
and a lethal means by which theycan harm themselves. And I think
(29:47):
it requires you to be flat outhonest, that you simply should
not have this, and here's why, Ivalue you more than I value that
gun, more than I value whateveryou think I need to protect.
That person is far more valuablethan any of those things. And I
think we miss that side of theequation. It's I mean, even in
(30:08):
the way that you frame thequestion, it's almost like,
well, how do you how do youstill get around some of these
other angles. To me, it's rathereasy. And I always like to say
this, because I've been through.
I said, the last time I hadattempted suicide, was with a
loaded nine millimeter. I hadthat gun in my mouth for at
least 30 minutes, I'm going toassure you gun oil is one of the
(30:28):
worst things you can ever taste.
I can taste it right now thatI'm talking about. And
thankfully, I had a cell phone,I was able to call my best
friend, he came over and I havenot touched the gun since, nor
should I. But, I mean, I seewhat I'm capable of doing. I
mean, there are friends whowould say, you know, hey, let's
go hunting, let's do thesethings like, No. I'm afraid of
(30:51):
what I might do. I don't, Idon't, I just don't want that,
that, that negative part in mylife, that, that that thing that
if that dark moment can hit,because there's no schedule for
it. Those dark moments come whenthey want to. If I had you know,
a lethal means by which I canhurt myself. Maybe I was at the
(31:12):
worst point ever, my copingmechanisms didn't kick in yet.
Now I got a gun to my head. Ican't have that. But I have gone
through all the things I need togo through therapy and training
all these things. But not enoughpeople so that, whether they
don't have access to mentalhealth care. Here in Wisconsin,
Right. Yeah,that is that is a backwards way
you can get a gun the same dayyou pass a background check.
(31:33):
of looking at humanity. You can,you can have access to something
There's no waiting period hereanymore. But you cannot get your
first mental health careappointment the day that you
that you can kill yourself orsomeone else with, but you can't
call.
Kelly Sampson (31:39):
Yes.
have immediate access to thething that might help save your
life today. There's somethingwrong with that. But you know,
I say that only to say thatI think more families need to ha
Adam Friedman (31:50):
I feel like there are a lot of conversations we
e more honest conversations wih each other, and realizing a
d appreciating the mental capaciy that they might be in, so t
at they don't have to end up aa Christmas dinner table with
an empty chair where that lovedne should have been because t
ey had too much easy access tohave that are conversations,
about how people don't have
Kelly Sampson (32:23):
Yeah, and it, I mean, it circles back, like you
certain conversations. And it'sdifficult because there's so
many different incrediblyimportant issues that we don't
have enough conversations aboutand don't fully understand. And
I think that's why there's somuch value in us having these
conversations, because the twoof us have dedicated so much of
our lives to this work. And Ithink it just takes someone to
feel comfortable with us andwhere we're coming from and, and
(32:46):
trust that what we say isaccurate and truthful because
we've done the work to ensure itis. And I hope, like, th
t listening and trust is conducie to folks working together
o have more of these kindsf conversations, or at least g
t the information they neesaid, to the point earlier about
stigma and honesty andvulnerability in these
conversations. Because, yeah,it's like, it's vulnerability on
(33:10):
the part of the person who isexperiencing crisis, but also on
the part of people in oursupport system to actually hear
too. And I know, I've been inthose situations myself, where
sometimes you want to dancearound it, and you're worried
about hurting someone'sfeelings, instead of just being
like, "Hey, I'm worried aboutyou. And it sounds like you are
(33:32):
thinking about hurtingyourself." So I'm gonna, you
know, just address it head onand, and kind of just have that
conversation and not worry somuch about, "Oh, my gosh," you
know, should "what, what if theythink I'm overreacting" or
something like that. So I'm gladyou pointed that out.
JJ Janflone (33:51):
And again, this is so striking to me, because, and
I say this a lot on here, butthese are people -- not stories.
You know we're, in the US, we'relosing up to 63 people a day due
to firearm suicide. That, thatis, that that number is
unbelievable. And really, thatthere are so many comments on
things we could be doing tobring it down is shocking.
Adam Friedman (34:11):
Absolutely. It's, I always think about the idea
that you can, you can quantify,you know, death in numbers, but
you can't quantify pain. All youcan do is listen to stories, and
feel that emotion that's beingshared with you. And understand
that, you know, after listeningto one, two, three people share
their pain with you, that'salready too much. And then to
(34:32):
recognize that you felt that wayafter just listening to a few
folks. And there are, you know,10, 20 thousand more or more
people times that, right? Likethere are 40,000 folks who are
lost. I think to feel that, thattiny fraction of it, is really
understanding the qualitativecomponent, which is so much more
(34:53):
painful to do, but I think justas important as understanding
the statistics.
JJ Janflone (34:57):
I think that's all sort of getting people to value
themselves, though I thinkthat's sort of what we're
talking about too. And valuinglife, over say, like, things
like even like gun ownership,like valuing a person more than
that, because people have, Imean, and I'll link them in the
description of the episode. Butthere's, there's hotlines, you
can call, there's mental healthresources you can access. But
you're right, when it comes tolike, being able, there are
(35:20):
places in the US where I canliterally walk in, same day, and
walk out with a gun. It's notnecessarily the same for me
walking in and, you know,getting a mental health
professional that I can afford.
Khary Penebaker (35:32):
Right.
JJ Janflone (35:33):
And and that's difficult. I think that that's a
difficult thing we have toreckon with,
Khary Penebaker (35:40):
Mhm. And it's something like here in
Wisconsin, we had a 48 hourwaiting period, we had that for
40 years. And the politician whowrote it back in the 70s,
specifically wrote it for crimesof passion, and self harm. And
then it got repealed in 2015.
Because they deemed it to be atime tax. And when I would talk
to people about this, I'm like,"How much time do you think it
(36:01):
takes to plan a funeral?" Right?
I mean, so if you have to waittwo days to get a gun, is that
worth the time it might take forfamily that the planet funeral?
Because a person had immediateaccess to a gun, but didn't have
immediate access to mentalhealth care, does that seem fair
(36:22):
to you? Now, I mean, you know,reasonable people will get that.
But politicians aren't alwaysreasonable, nor are they always
smart. But even still, I wouldmuch rather tell people what I
have struggled through, whatI've dealt with, so that they
too, can find that they can dothis too. They can get on a
podcast and talk about thethings that they're struggling
(36:45):
with, because I think the morepeople who talk about it means
the more people who will talkabout it, it's more people will
talk about it. And not only willthat cycle end, but so will this
idea that there's this stigmapreventing us from advancing
past this. I mean, there are toomany people who just stuck in
isolation, who just feel likethey're all alone, whether they
(37:09):
are the ones consideringself-harm themselves, or
struggling with the after effectof someone like my mom, who shot
and killed themselves. Theywill, there's no dummies guide
to this. There's no organizationon the planet that can guide me
through what I have to dealwith. There's not a single one
of y'all that can tell me how Ican keep putting two feet on the
(37:32):
ground every morning, when I getout of bed. No one can tell me
how to do that, I have toexperience it myself. But the
more I do it, I can help letother people know, y'all can do
this too. And it's thanks toorganizations like Brady and
Everytown, and all these otherorganizations that bring these
survivor stories together sothat we're not just telling the
(37:55):
heartbreaking side, we'retelling the survivor side.
And that, I think what getsmissed in some of these
conversations, when we talkpurely about policy, I have to
survive every single day. That'sa process -- and it ain't easy.
But the more people that get tosee how that process works, the
more they can emulate itthemselves or find a process
(38:16):
that works for them. So you havefewer and fewer people who end
up like my mom. You know, manyof us, me included, always say
that we want to change theworld. But not everybody can do
that. You know, we can, there'sonly one Barack Obama, right.
And so the way that people canalso change the world is by a
(38:37):
random act of kindness. When yousee someone walking on the
street, smile. Open a door forsomeone, by a person some
coffee, or buy the lunch for theperson standing behind you in
the in the line of McDonald's orwhatever the case, because you
don't know the demon that thatperson might be facing. You
don't know if that person mightbe in such a state where
(39:02):
isolation is all they see, likethey feel like they're on this
island by themselves, that'scovered with a black cloud, and
it's only raining on them. Butthat one moment of kindness can
literally change their life. Ifmore people did that, maybe once
or twice a week, think of thelives that we could save.
Because, you know there thosetimes when I've attempted
(39:25):
suicide or I've thought aboutit, that's because I felt like
no one could see me. But thinkabout when you're walking down
the street, when people are justsimply looking down at their
phone, or ignoring the lightthat's around them, try to be
nice to someone. Try to changesomeone's life just by being
kind to them. And as EricaLafferty's, Mom, Dawn would say,
(39:46):
"Be nice to each other. It'sreally all that matters."
Kelly Sampson (39:50):
I mean, that's a really relevant reminder,
especially right now, where Ifeel like when I do leave my
house, which isn't often. ButI'm wearing a mask and, kind of,
totally absorbed in my ownconcerns about my own life. And,
you know, it's to, to rememberto look up and pay attention to
(40:10):
the people around me, reallyimportant.
Khary Penebaker (40:12):
I absolutely agree.
Kelly Sampson (40:14):
And before we have to say goodbye, Adam, I'm
just wondering if you could telllisteners a little bit more
about Brady's initiatives likeEnd Family Fire.
Adam Friedman (40:22):
Yeah, I've been really thankful for the
opportunity to talk about mystory, and, End Family Fire,
which is an effort that I'm verylucky to be a part of,
encouraging folks to safely andsecurely store their firearms at
home, keeping their weaponunloaded and ammunition stored
separately, because especiallywhen it comes to gun suicide,
(40:44):
which is, that makes up twothirds of gun deaths in our
country, the difference betweenhaving access to a firearm and
not for someone in a moment ofcrisis is literally the
difference between life anddeath. And I think it's so
important for us to be able tobe there for folks who are
struggling and provide them thatsecond chance, ensuring that,
you know, they can get the helpthey need the support they need
(41:06):
from their loved ones, and theirfirearms are safely stored and
secured.
What I'd say is, to anyone whohas a loved one who might be in
a moment of crisis, it'sessential to reach out and have
a conversation with them,especially about firearms if
they have firearms in the home.
End Family Fire has a greatguide on their website and
(41:26):
Endfamilyfire.org. What I'd sayis, if you live in one of the
states that has any sort ofextreme risk protection laws,
you know, someone is in a momentof crisis, that's another avenue
to access, where you can gobefore a judge and explain the
situation, and why someone's ata moment of crisis, and then
that person can have theirfirearms restrained for a period
(41:49):
of generally a couple of weeks,and then they're returned after
that person has been able to getthe help that they need. What
I'd say is in addition to that,you know, if it feels right, for
anyone who's listening to takeaction, I know on this podcast,
that's most of what you talkabout, is to get involved. But I
think it's so important torecognize that it doesn't need
(42:13):
to take this issue of affectingyou personally to get involved.
And also, for anyone who hasbeen personally affected,
especially by gun suicide, it'simportant to recognize that
you're not alone in yourexperience. There are so many
folks who have the sameexperience you do and who will
be here to support you if youever do decide to take on this
(42:36):
work, and fight for thesolutions that we're working
toward.
JJ Janflone (42:43):
Adam, Khary I want to thank you all, on behalf of
Kelly and I both, so much forcoming on today, for sharing
your stories, and for continuingto fight for gun violence
prevention. We really appreciateit.
So we've talked about guns inairports, and I've told Kelly
about guns in toys. But now Ihave to tell you about gun
(43:04):
magazines in toys at airports.
Unfortunately agents with theTransportation Security
Administration, aka the TSAfound two high capacity
magazines inside a baby toy boxduring a bag check at Orlando
International Airport earlierthis month. TSA says the gun
magazines were discovered afteran X-ray screening showed
something odd in the package.
Officers did a bag check, andfound a toy box that was made to
(43:25):
look like it had been factorysealed, but, in fact, had gun
magazines inside. Now rememberfirearms are not allowed in
carry on baggage on airplanes.
If TSA finds a gun and carry onbag, the person with the bag can
be fined up to $13,000 andpossibly arrested. Earlier this
week, TSA officials said thatthey had stopped 84 guns from
going through at OrlandoInternational Airport this year
(43:45):
alone.
I begin this week's news wrap upby celebrating those who
continue to fight for gunviolence prevention. In
Lexington, Kentucky the sixthannual peace walk in Duncan Park
was held by activist AnitaFranklin son, Ricardo Franklin.
Anita, who began the event in2014 after her son Antonio was
(44:06):
killed by gun violence at thepark, sadly died this February
of a heart attack. Her sonRicardo has continued the event
in her, and his brother's,memory.
I also have to mark theremembrances of two mass
shootings, the 2017 Las Vegasshooting the 2015 Umpqua
shooting. On October 1, 2017 58people were killed, and more
than 800 injured, at the route91 Harvest Outdoor Country Music
(44:28):
Festival on the Las Vegas Strip,with a crowd of more than 22,000
people. Between 10 (44:32):
05 and 10:15pm, the shooter fired more
than 1000 rounds of ammunitionfrom his 32nd floor room in the
Mandalay Bay hotel. Since 2017,two others went on to die from
their wounds, including KimberlyGervais, 57, who died in 2019 as
a result of spinal injuries fromthe shooting. And most recently,
(44:53):
Samanta Arjune, 49, who diedearlier this month from
complications with a gunshotwound to her left leg. With more
than 60 people killed, theincident is the deadliest mass
shooting committed by anindividual in modern United
States history.
On the same day, two yearsearlier, nine people were killed
and eight wounded at the UmpquaCommunity College in Oregon,
when a student open fire insidethe campuses Snyder hall. That
(45:14):
mass shooting was the deadliestin Oregon's modern history.
Are you interested in sharingwith the podcast? Listeners can
get in touch with us here atRed, Blue and Brady via phone or
text message. Simply call ortext us at 480-744-3452 with
your thoughts, questions,concerns, ideas, whatever!
And you know what else you canshare? Chocolate. Come join me
(45:37):
in eating your 2020 feelings byshopping Hu's Kitchen Chocolate
which is free of dairy, gluten,refined sugar, palm oil and cane
sugar. My personal favorite arethe dark gems. It's a bag
bursting with 70% darkchocolate, paleo style. Click on
the link in the description ofour episode to help support the
show and to buy you or yourloved ones some tasty treats.
(45:58):
Thanks for listening. As always,Brady's life saving work in
Congress, the courts andcommunities across the country
is made possible thanks to you.
For more information on Brady orhow to get involved in the fight
against gun violence, pleaselike and subscribe to the
podcast, get in touch with us atBradyunited.org or on social
@Bradybuzz. Be brave andremember -- take action not
sides.
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