May 19, 2023 • 29 mins
Amy and Geoff review the popular fiction novel Pineapple Street by Jenny Jackson and literary fiction novel Ghost Music by An Yu. Pineapple Street is a bird's eye view into the moneyed Brooklyn Heights family The Stocktons. Sasha, a middle-class New England girl, marries into the family and tries to find her way. Set in Beijing, Ghost Music is a quiet book that examines the sad life of retired concert pianist Song Yan. A mysterious parcel of mushrooms begins arriving at her door each week and suddenly her life changes. Geoff also talks about his third failed attempt at reading Cormac McCarthy.
Books and Resources discussed:
The Passenger by Cormac McCarthy
Stella Maris by Cormac McCarthy
The Road by Cormac McCarthy
All the Pretty Horses by Cormac McCarthy
Pineapple Street by Jenny Jackson
Ghost Music by An Yu
Braised Pork by An Yu
Wiser than Me with Julia Louis-Dreyfus, podcast
The Diplomat, Netflix
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:20):
Welcome back to the Red Fern book review. I am your
host, Amy Mair. And today I amjoined by Jess, for one of my
last podcasts of this season.
And we are here to discuss twohot new releases. And they are
pineapple Street by JennyJackson, and ghost music by on
(00:41):
you. And we're also going totalk about a book that Jeff DNF
or did not finish, as we say inthe book, book world. And we
will also finish or we willfinish up with a discussion of a
show that we're binging andpodcast that I'm loving. So with
(01:01):
that I wanted to say welcomeback, Jeff.
Geoff Mair (01:06):
Thanks, see, so good to be here once again.
Unknown (01:09):
So first, let's talk about the book that wasn't. We
talked and you decided on a bookthat you thought you'd be really
interested in. And no surprise,you picked a big intense book.
And you didn't finish it. So canyou tell people what was the
book? And what happened?
Geoff Mair (01:31):
So I decided to read the passenger by Cormac
McCarthy, which is his, youknow, relatively new book. It
just came out, I think, at theend of 2022. And, you know, Kirk
McCarthy's like, it seems likean author that I should really
like he's, you know, he's verygood writer, you know, he writes
complicated and sort of like,this one, at least is kind of,
(01:54):
you know, has some surrealism toit. Yeah, so I'm on paper. He's
got all the things that I like,and an author, but I found this
book. Well, it was reallybeautifully written very
difficult to read, like really,really hard. And I also found it
quite bleak. Like, all thecharacters are kind of, nobody's
(02:16):
very happy. There's nothing verylike, yeah, there's nothing
there's no real hope in the bookI found about halfway through, I
decided it probably wasn't goingto be for your listeners,
because it wasn't a fit forthem. For most of them, and I
don't really I didn't reallylove it. So
Unknown (02:32):
what's the what's the basic plot?
Geoff Mair (02:34):
So it's about this character name, body Western, he
lives in past Christianne in the1980s. And he is a salvage
diver. He used to live therebriefly. He did. Yeah, he used
to live right, right by thereand Biloxi. So the beginning of
the book, his employer, thediving company, the salvage
(02:55):
company is employed by amysterious customer to go and do
a salvage dive on an aeroplanethat's gone down. And when
they're diving, they discoverthat the flight recorder is
missing, and that there's onlyseven passengers in there out of
the eight passengers on themanifest. So throughout the
book, they're kind of lookingand trying to figure out what
(03:17):
happened to the mysterious eightpassenger. And they're, you
know, they're the the mysteryensues. So the story of the
story sort of happens in withtwo main characters, Bobby
Western who eat your versus hisway across, you know, the
taverns of New Orleans first,and then across the United
(03:38):
States. He's constantly sort ofdiscussing philosophy and
quantum physics and all thesevery sort of like, intellectual,
you know, social things that aregoing on in the world. But, you
know, it's all in the premiseof, you know, trying to find out
what's happened to this, thismysterious eighth passenger and
the whole time he's sort ofconstantly shadowed by these
(04:00):
mysterious agents who want toquestion him about the the plane
crash. And, you know, so there'sthis real sort of aura of
paranoia over the whole, thewhole book,
Unknown (04:12):
it sounds like a pretty good premise.
Geoff Mair (04:15):
Yeah, no, it's kind of interesting. Um, ya know,
it's actually kind of aninteresting story. And it's very
well written it that that story,you know, is paralleled by the
story of body Western sister whois named Alicia. And she's
schizophrenic. And so half thestory is better than the Western
(04:37):
story. And you know, maybe lessthan half is Alicia story. But
Alicia story is really a story,you know, told to someone who
has schizophrenia it's all youknow, things that are going on
in her mind. She hashallucinations and the leader of
the cast of characters in herhallucinations is a character
named that that the lid of mykid And he's got, you know, a
(05:02):
group of Merry Pranksters who,you know, hallucinate with and
they're constantly sort offermenting and cuddling. Alicia
and what's really bleak about itis like, they're her tormentors.
But they're, they're kind ofearly friends. So that part of
the story is really hard tofollow. It's very surreal. You
(05:22):
never quite know what's goingon. And even for me, I you know,
I struggled with that I lovestuff. That's super surreal.
That's that's the kind of stuffI like to write, but sorry, that
I like to read, but I foundthis. Yeah, a little bit. A
little bit too hard.
Unknown (05:37):
Um, M. So the passenger came out in the fall, and then
came out I think in November,and then a month later, Stella
Maris the sequel was released.
And what that is, is that's thename of the psychiatric
hospital, where the maincharacter, which is Alicia,
Alicia is the star of the seasonAustin has admitted herself to
(05:58):
so that's that's the secondbooks about
Geoff Mair (06:04):
her. And the second book is the first book that
Cormac McCarthy has written witha female character as lead,
which I thought was kind ofinteresting. He's there. He's a
very sort of, yeah, his booksare pretty male dominated, I
would say.
Unknown (06:19):
Yeah. And his books. A little about him. So Jeff
mentioned that you you tried toread all the Pretty Horses in
the road, I think. And those arehis best known books. He's
written 12 novels. He's writtenplays, screenplays short
stories. And as we talked about,his focus is the American West
(06:39):
and often post apocalypse. Heuses a lot of violence. And one
thing I read about him as heuses kind of his own form of
punctuation. Did you notice thatwhen you were reading that?
Geoff Mair (06:52):
Oh, for sure, yeah.
Yeah, it does work. I mean, it'she is playing with sentence
structure. And he's playing withgrammar, and he's playing with
punctuation a lot. But it works.
I mean, I still feel like itflows. It's, you know, it's a
hard to read, but but notbecause of that.
Unknown (07:14):
And he's considered one of the great American writers,
and he has been compared toHemingway. Another kind of fun
fact, his name is actual,actually, he was born Charles
McCarthy, but he changed hisname because there was a famous
(07:35):
ventriloquist, Edward Bergen,who's Candice Bergen's dad. And
he had a dummy named CharlieMcCarthy. So he, he changed his
name. And they're not sure whereit came from. Some people say it
was a family nickname. He has anIrish his Irish heritage. And
then other people say it was thename given to him. Or he changed
(07:59):
his name because it was theperson Cormac McCarthy
constructing Blarney castle, andhe liked the idea of that. So
that's kind of cool. Okay, soanything else you want to say
about that book? No. Okay. Ithink we're good to go. I think
you probably don't want to readthis book. Unless you're already
a fan. That's what I'm gonnaget. Yeah, I
Geoff Mair (08:20):
think it'd be love Cormac McCarthy, you love this
book. This is like it'sconsidered, you know, his. I
wouldn't call it the pinnacle ofhis writing. But it is certainly
a book where He's taking greatliberty because he's kind of
towards the end of his career.
And he's already proved thathe's a great writer. So he, it
was a little I found it a littleself indulgent, you know,
because he just wrote so much.
(08:43):
Yeah. So if you'd like to haveit prepared for you like this,
if you don't, you won't.
Unknown (08:48):
Okay, so that's a little segue, though. Cormac
McCarthy is a segue to the nextbook we're going to talk about,
which was a book that I read onmy own. And it's called
pineapple Street by JennyJackson. And it is a big book
this season. So I wouldrecommend it. I think I talked
(09:09):
about I think last episode orthe episode before the villa, we
talked about that. And that thisis kind of in that vein, it's a
light book, it's a summer read.
It's kind of of the moment, butit's not very taxing. And what
it's about, it's kind of a fishout of water stories
(09:30):
contemporary novel about familylove and class. And I would say
it's been marketed as a modernage. Age of Innocence by Edith
Wharton, and it's an inner lookat New York society. And the
title is named after the book isnamed after one of the fruit
(09:51):
streets and Brooklyn Heightswhere this book is sets. And in
Brooklyn Heights, which is likethe fancy part of Brooklyn,
there are these three streetscalled pineapple, orange and
cranberry streets. And they'reknown for their historic
architecture. And they'rebeautiful. And they're very
close to the promenade wherethis is a well known kind of
(10:13):
walkway. And the origin of thenames is interesting. Legend has
it that there was a localresident that a woman that hated
the fact that streets werealways named after wealthy
landowners. So she rippedapparently ripped down the
original street names the middleof the night and put these names
(10:34):
up. And then, but then anotherthought is that pre Civil War,
some fruit sellers used putnamed the streets after the
spirits that they sold. And itwas sort of like a modern day
billboard promotion. Yeah. Sothat that was kind of
interesting. But so this book,what it's about, it's about this
(10:56):
family called the Stocktonfamily, and they're an old
money, Brooklyn Heights family,they have a place in the
Hamptons, they belong to privateclubs. And they, the
grandparents are known as geekyDD Pippin pop. That sounds is
very waspy. And the family'smain house is known as the
(11:24):
limestone and the maincharacters, their three children
in the family, and there's acord. And then there's an eldest
daughter Darley, and thenthere's Georgiana. And but the
story is really about Sasha. Andthe book is told from multiple
points of view, which I alwaysfind fun. But Sasha is an
(11:45):
interloper. She's from RhodeIsland, her dad, I think, as a
cop, and she grew up very middleworking class, and kind of she
marries court and gets thrustinto this society. So and then
there's a little bit, you know,I won't tell you much more other
than you're really just gettingthat kind of bird's eye view.
(12:05):
And, you know, things happen,like she gets mistaken for the
help at a party. One thing thatI did think really rang true was
they play a lot of tennis inthis book, and they actually
either the author herself playstennis, or she researched it
because it was authentic, youwould know. And I would know I
(12:26):
enjoy playing tennis in my freetime. And but I you know, there
was another book that came outnot very long ago, Leanne, more
Moriarty. I think we talkedabout this, or I talked about
this on the podcast, she wrote abook recently called apples
never fall, and it's abouttennis. And it just didn't
(12:48):
really ring true. But I wantedto read one little passage in
this book that really captureskind of the vibe and the tone.
And this is about Sasha and howshe feels in this world that
she's been thrust into. So itsays Sasha felt wrong footed 90%
of the time, but alsosimultaneously felt she was
(13:12):
Molly Ringwald in 80s movie andeveryone else was the preppy
villain. Chords world was fullof pearl girls all wearing their
grandmother's earrings and crispbutton downs and loafers. As
interchangeable as they weresexless. Sasha often had the
sneaking suspicion that if shesaw them naked, they would have
(13:33):
bodies as smooth and flat asBarbies. She swore to herself
that the day she tied a cableknit sweater around her
shoulders would be the day shedied. Good for her. So that's
it. Um, I would say this book. Iliked it. And actually, if you
just want to have fun, and alsoit's always fun to read the kind
(13:55):
of the hot book of the season. iThis is a book for you. It's got
a fun cover, it comes out. Itcame out in paperback, which is
nice. You don't have to buy itin hardcover. But one of the
really interesting things is theauthor herself Jenny Jackson,
because the author is really aneditor that's this is her first
(14:15):
book and this was her pandemicproject. And she's kind of a
wunderkind over at North WA. Andshe's 43 years old. She calls
herself an aging millennial. Andshe was the editor on the Cormac
McCarthy book, The passenger,and she's known for being a
hitmaker. And the books that shelooks for are kind of those
(14:39):
books that straddle the linebetween literary and commercial
fiction. She was the editor onour favorite book of last year
tomorrow and tomorrow andtomorrow by Gabrielle Zevon. She
has edited Emily St. JohnMandel, Chris Bohjalian or
Bohjalian P You're Heller,Catherine. gagne, Jennifer
(15:00):
close. I'm reading her bookright now it's called marrying
the ketchups as Morel does,Santiago, Helen Ellis and the
actress Selma Blair, who justrecently came out with an
autobiography or memoir,
Geoff Mair (15:18):
question. Yeah. So is it a commentary on wasp?
fishness? Yeah,
Unknown (15:23):
it is. Yeah. So
Geoff Mair (15:24):
it's kind of anti Wasp business. Ah,
Unknown (15:29):
interesting. I think it's the ridiculousness of it,
right? I mean, there is a scenewhere, like, for example, one of
the daughters think it is, oh,it's the eldest daughter. So she
married her husband and didn'twant, she has husband. And she
(15:51):
didn't want to have them sign aprenup, because she thought I
think she thought it was, Idon't know, means the marriage
isn't going to work orsomething. And so because they
wouldn't sign a prenup. He theyshe lost her inheritance. And it
goes on to the next generation.
And it's sort of there's a wholestoryline around that about and
I won't get too into becausethere's a bit of a mystery
(16:14):
around that, but I don't know.
Yes, I think it is commentary.
But and some of it's ridiculous.
Like, some of these people do alot of good in the world, while
at the same time. They leavetheir job and then go, you know,
to a fancy Gala. And, you know,the Hamptons. So there's that
(16:38):
kind of sounds like a book youwould like
Geoff Mair (16:43):
to sell like a book I would leg is probably not my
genre so much, you know, I Itend to gravitate towards
certain kinds of books. Andthat's, that's probably not in
it. You know, maybe if I wantedsomething kind of later to read,
which I believe readingsomething late right now and I
play like it. So maybe I would
Unknown (17:01):
like to write that's a What are you reading now or
both?
Geoff Mair (17:05):
I'm reading romantic comedy, and it's quite, it's
quite fun. Don't say anythingmore
Unknown (17:09):
about it. It's Curtis Sittenfeld. So everyone should
read that because we're going tocome back in the fall and talk
about but anyway, okay, so thesecond book we read is a
literary fiction book. And it iscalled Ghost music by on you.
And this is a toll one ad frompineapple Street. It's not very
(17:30):
long. It's very literary, verydreamlike. I thought the best
thing about this book was justthe writing itself. But let's
tell it let me tell everyonejust a little bit about what
it's about because it's about awoman who lives in Beijing. Her
name is Sun Yan. And she sat,she was a concert pianist. And
(17:56):
she's not doing that anymore.
And she's in what appears to bea loveless marriage. She, her
husband, she lives with herhusband ballin, but he travels
all the time. It's clear, he'sgot either another life or other
priorities. He doesn't reallycare. And he is a car executive.
And so she's left at home withhis mom, who isn't very nice to
her. And she seems superunhappy. So everyone's unhappy.
(18:19):
But the one thing that issomewhat interesting is there
are talking mushrooms in thisbook. And there is a strange
orange mushroom that comes toher at night and talks to her.
So I guess we're going to callthis book has met, it's infused
(18:40):
with magical realism. And oh,yeah, and subsequent to that,
there is all of a sudden aparcel of mushrooms starts
arriving on this woman'sdoorstep every week. And so her
and her mother in law, gettogether and make things from
these exotic mushrooms. And theymake soups and stews. And so
(19:04):
there's that whole elementthere. So and then eventually
they find out who's been sendingthe package and there's a bit of
a mystery there. Sort of. Sowhat did you think of the book?
Geoff Mair (19:17):
Ah, I liked it. I didn't love it. I think I didn't
love it. It's very quiet. Quiet,but it is very dreamlike. I
agree with that. I think thewriting is absolutely beautiful.
And she creates this sort ofvery dreamlike environment,
which I think is quite quitebeautiful, but not very much
(19:38):
happens. Like it's just a very Ifound it a little slow paced. I
wanted more, you know, plotdevelopment and more more going
on. Yeah, that's sort of my takeon it.
Unknown (19:49):
I would agree. Now, I'm going to ask you what because
I'm not really sure like thesemushrooms. First of all, they're
creepy. I'm not sure what'sgoing on with the mushrooms but
What did the talking mushroommean to you?
Geoff Mair (20:03):
Yeah, there's kind of two aspects to the sort of
surreal part of the book, therewas the talking mushrooms. And
there's also like thismysterious orange cloud. I never
didn't really figure out whatthe I never came up with a
hypothesis on what the orangecloud is about. But it's got
interesting. But to me, themushrooms are really about the
stuff that gets left unsaid, youknow, between family members,
(20:27):
it's kind of like stuffed in thedark, and takes on a life of its
own. And so when you, you know,I think the concept behind the
mushrooms is when people don'ttalk about stuff, you know,
things grow out of it, that canbe bad or good, and they come
back to haunt you. And so themushrooms are actually, you
know, the mushroom at 1.0. MaybeI shouldn't well, I'll just,
Unknown (20:50):
I think you can well, I don't know how
Geoff Mair (20:55):
I'll say it. You know, the one point the the
mushroom at one point reveals,well, I'm not really a mushroom,
I'm work close to a ghost. Andso that was really telling to
me, because it really, to mesort of is, is like the ghosts
of the things that are leftunsaid or the ghosts, you know,
the sort of all the things thatare left in the closet that
(21:16):
don't get talked about, right,and the ghosts come back to
haunt you later on in life. Andthat's that's sort of what
happens. Oh, it's more to me,it's more of a ghost or even a
surrealist? Well,
Unknown (21:26):
it's called Ghost music. Exactly. So I don't think
you respond that that doesn'tmatter did the magical realism
as a literary device work foryou?
Geoff Mair (21:36):
I read a ton of magical realism that is my
genre. So I thought I reallyliked this book. And I liked it.
But, you know, what I found withthe that part of it is it wasn't
super integrated in it wouldhappen, you know, there was some
mushroom stuff at the beginningthere was then there's like a
long stretch in the middle,where there, there wasn't sort
(21:57):
of surrealist stuff going on.
And then you know, there was abig mushroom part of the, you
know, in, say, last the lastquarter of the book, or last
money and quite quarter. So Ikind of would have liked it more
integrated. Because it wouldhave kept my interest a bit
more, I think.
Unknown (22:12):
I thought the descriptions of the food was
great. And there's a lot onmusic if you're interested in
music. And another criticism Ido of the book of the book, is I
didn't find at the end, thingstotally tied together to a way
that was satisfying for me likeI, I really felt it was about
(22:33):
the atmosphere that this authorwas creating, which I thought
she did a good job.
Geoff Mair (22:39):
That was the best part of that is like this kind
of dream. Like,
Unknown (22:42):
yeah, if you like literary fiction, I think you
should look at it. I would givethis four out of five stars. I
personally actually enjoyed itmore than pineapple Street. Just
because I thought it wasbeautiful writing. But I did it
for it is not. It is not a pageturner. Let's just say
Geoff Mair (23:02):
you got to go into like the words and stories
Unknown (23:06):
on you a little bit about her. She was born and
raised in Beijing. And she spenttime in London, New York and
Paris. And her debut, she's Shelooks young to me. Well, yeah,
everyone kind of looks youngnow. But she's I think she's
quite young, young air quotes.
Geoff Mair (23:28):
The opposite? I think they have limits.
Unknown (23:30):
Yeah, I know that. I know. That's just not. I know,
just always like, oh, you know,they're our age. And they're
like, 35 No, no, that's nottrue. But you do. You do often
think that's not true. Anyway,she's the author. Her first book
is called braised pork and I, itcame out in 2020. And I think
(23:51):
it's a similar kind of, I thinkthere's a lot of food. And I
think there might be somemagical realism there. So, um,
oh, she has been compared toHaruki Murakami, who is a
fabulous Japanese writer with acult following. And he's written
the book she would know by himpotentially is the windup bird,
(24:13):
Chronicle and Kafka on theshore. So those are two
different things people canconsider. And let's talk about
something that I know you loved.
And that's a show we've beenbinging the diplomat. And I
think a lot of you have beenwatching this and if you
haven't, you might want to checkit out. It's a soapy fun show
(24:34):
about a diplomat Keri Russell,who is the ambassador, American
Ambassador to London, which isthe cherry plum job for other
ambassadorships, United Statesand her rogue dastardly husband
Rufus, played by Rufus Sewell.
(25:00):
and they are so they play Kateand how Weiler and they've just
landed in London she's taking onthis job. And that's the story.
So what do you think?
Geoff Mair (25:14):
I think it's blank as hell Wyler is also a
diplomat. But he you know, andhe was a diplomat, you know, in
some sort of like, I can'tremember where but in like a
very hot region where there'sand he, you know, now he is the
spouse of a diplomat, his wifeand he doesn't know what to do
(25:34):
with them self so he's a funnycharacter because he he really
wants to help Keri Russell'scharacter be successful, right,
you know, diplomat to England,right. But he's doing it in such
an underhanded and like all theworst are things you think about
international politics. Yeah,all the moves. And it drives her
crazy. But but his buddies ishelping him and their
(25:58):
relationships funny because he Ithink he loves or, but they kind
of hate each other too.
Unknown (26:05):
Yeah, they definitely don't like each other. They keep
saying they're gonna getdivorced, but
Geoff Mair (26:10):
Well, I think he's in love with it, though.
Unknown (26:13):
Yeah. Anyway, there's definitely going to be a season
two, because we watch the wholething and they don't even they
don't even it's obviouslythere's coming. I kind of want
like, I love like, BBC kind ofdramas. And I felt like they
would they it's more this ismore soapy version of it, like I
(26:37):
but I definitely enjoyed it. AndI liked that we could watch it
together.
Geoff Mair (26:40):
Well, I kind of like the you know, the view into sort
of like, international politicsand how countries, you know,
dedicate relate to each other,although we know somebody who's
in that world, and she said it'stotally unrealistic.
Unknown (26:54):
But she said she liked it. She liked the show. So yeah.
And okay, so check that out. AndI wanted to conclude by highly
recommending a podcast calledwiser than me with Julia Louis
Dreyfus. It's just come out. Andit's the number one podcast
right now. I think it'ssurpassed smartlace. And it's
(27:19):
Julia interviewing older women,and talking about their lives.
And it's done. It's very candidas the best podcasts are. And
it's also funny as, as she is,and I listened to the episode
she did with Ruth Rachel. Andit's hilarious, because at one
(27:40):
point, they're having this greatconversation. And she's like, so
I have a question. And shedelves into a very personal
question about a recipe thathave roots that she's tried and
didn't quite work out. And whatdoes she think and shouldn't GM
or almonds should she had this?
And I don't know. It just wasfun, because it sort of seemed
like that's what you would dowith a friend. So she interviews
(28:02):
Fran Liebowitz Jane Fonda, AmyChan, and Elekta. It has it has
heart, it isn't just likesmartlace I love smartlace. But
sometimes it doesn't go deepenough.
Geoff Mair (28:19):
I'm super surprised that surpass meritless. That's a
Unknown (28:23):
well, I could be wrong, but I believe it has. So it's
also new. So yeah. Anyway, Ithat's all I have to say. And
thank you so much for comingColiseum with me today. And I
hope you're going to be doing alot of reading. So Duff has now
he's gone to DJ school, which Ithink we've talked about before,
(28:46):
which is taking away from someof his reading activities. Yeah.
So I hope you don't give up. Sowe have a delay on this podcast
because he was otherwiseoccupied. But anyway, let's
together. Okay, so happy readingeveryone over the summer, and
(29:07):
we're gonna do one actually,we're gonna do one more, we're
going to come back with one ofmy favorite guests. Sorry, Jeff.
But equally equally favoriteguests is Susan Matheson who's
going to talk to everyone whatthey should be reading this
summer. So thanks so much, andI'll talk to you later. Awesome.
Thanks, Amy. Thanks.
Welcome back to the Red Fern book review. I am your
host, Amy Mair. And today I amjoined by Jess, for one of my
last podcasts of this season.
And we are here to discuss twohot new releases. And they are
pineapple Street by JennyJackson, and ghost music by on
(00:41):
you. And we're also going totalk about a book that Jeff DNF
or did not finish, as we say inthe book, book world. And we
will also finish or we willfinish up with a discussion of a
show that we're binging andpodcast that I'm loving. So with
(01:01):
that I wanted to say welcomeback, Jeff.
Geoff Mair (01:06):
Thanks, see, so good to be here once again.
Unknown (01:09):
So first, let's talk about the book that wasn't. We
talked and you decided on a bookthat you thought you'd be really
interested in. And no surprise,you picked a big intense book.
And you didn't finish it. So canyou tell people what was the
book? And what happened?
Geoff Mair (01:31):
So I decided to read the passenger by Cormac
McCarthy, which is his, youknow, relatively new book. It
just came out, I think, at theend of 2022. And, you know, Kirk
McCarthy's like, it seems likean author that I should really
like he's, you know, he's verygood writer, you know, he writes
complicated and sort of like,this one, at least is kind of,
(01:54):
you know, has some surrealism toit. Yeah, so I'm on paper. He's
got all the things that I like,and an author, but I found this
book. Well, it was reallybeautifully written very
difficult to read, like really,really hard. And I also found it
quite bleak. Like, all thecharacters are kind of, nobody's
(02:16):
very happy. There's nothing verylike, yeah, there's nothing
there's no real hope in the bookI found about halfway through, I
decided it probably wasn't goingto be for your listeners,
because it wasn't a fit forthem. For most of them, and I
don't really I didn't reallylove it. So
Unknown (02:32):
what's the what's the basic plot?
Geoff Mair (02:34):
So it's about this character name, body Western, he
lives in past Christianne in the1980s. And he is a salvage
diver. He used to live therebriefly. He did. Yeah, he used
to live right, right by thereand Biloxi. So the beginning of
the book, his employer, thediving company, the salvage
(02:55):
company is employed by amysterious customer to go and do
a salvage dive on an aeroplanethat's gone down. And when
they're diving, they discoverthat the flight recorder is
missing, and that there's onlyseven passengers in there out of
the eight passengers on themanifest. So throughout the
book, they're kind of lookingand trying to figure out what
(03:17):
happened to the mysterious eightpassenger. And they're, you
know, they're the the mysteryensues. So the story of the
story sort of happens in withtwo main characters, Bobby
Western who eat your versus hisway across, you know, the
taverns of New Orleans first,and then across the United
(03:38):
States. He's constantly sort ofdiscussing philosophy and
quantum physics and all thesevery sort of like, intellectual,
you know, social things that aregoing on in the world. But, you
know, it's all in the premiseof, you know, trying to find out
what's happened to this, thismysterious eighth passenger and
the whole time he's sort ofconstantly shadowed by these
(04:00):
mysterious agents who want toquestion him about the the plane
crash. And, you know, so there'sthis real sort of aura of
paranoia over the whole, thewhole book,
Unknown (04:12):
it sounds like a pretty good premise.
Geoff Mair (04:15):
Yeah, no, it's kind of interesting. Um, ya know,
it's actually kind of aninteresting story. And it's very
well written it that that story,you know, is paralleled by the
story of body Western sister whois named Alicia. And she's
schizophrenic. And so half thestory is better than the Western
(04:37):
story. And you know, maybe lessthan half is Alicia story. But
Alicia story is really a story,you know, told to someone who
has schizophrenia it's all youknow, things that are going on
in her mind. She hashallucinations and the leader of
the cast of characters in herhallucinations is a character
named that that the lid of mykid And he's got, you know, a
(05:02):
group of Merry Pranksters who,you know, hallucinate with and
they're constantly sort offermenting and cuddling. Alicia
and what's really bleak about itis like, they're her tormentors.
But they're, they're kind ofearly friends. So that part of
the story is really hard tofollow. It's very surreal. You
(05:22):
never quite know what's goingon. And even for me, I you know,
I struggled with that I lovestuff. That's super surreal.
That's that's the kind of stuffI like to write, but sorry, that
I like to read, but I foundthis. Yeah, a little bit. A
little bit too hard.
Unknown (05:37):
Um, M. So the passenger came out in the fall, and then
came out I think in November,and then a month later, Stella
Maris the sequel was released.
And what that is, is that's thename of the psychiatric
hospital, where the maincharacter, which is Alicia,
Alicia is the star of the seasonAustin has admitted herself to
(05:58):
so that's that's the secondbooks about
Geoff Mair (06:04):
her. And the second book is the first book that
Cormac McCarthy has written witha female character as lead,
which I thought was kind ofinteresting. He's there. He's a
very sort of, yeah, his booksare pretty male dominated, I
would say.
Unknown (06:19):
Yeah. And his books. A little about him. So Jeff
mentioned that you you tried toread all the Pretty Horses in
the road, I think. And those arehis best known books. He's
written 12 novels. He's writtenplays, screenplays short
stories. And as we talked about,his focus is the American West
(06:39):
and often post apocalypse. Heuses a lot of violence. And one
thing I read about him as heuses kind of his own form of
punctuation. Did you notice thatwhen you were reading that?
Geoff Mair (06:52):
Oh, for sure, yeah.
Yeah, it does work. I mean, it'she is playing with sentence
structure. And he's playing withgrammar, and he's playing with
punctuation a lot. But it works.
I mean, I still feel like itflows. It's, you know, it's a
hard to read, but but notbecause of that.
Unknown (07:14):
And he's considered one of the great American writers,
and he has been compared toHemingway. Another kind of fun
fact, his name is actual,actually, he was born Charles
McCarthy, but he changed hisname because there was a famous
(07:35):
ventriloquist, Edward Bergen,who's Candice Bergen's dad. And
he had a dummy named CharlieMcCarthy. So he, he changed his
name. And they're not sure whereit came from. Some people say it
was a family nickname. He has anIrish his Irish heritage. And
then other people say it was thename given to him. Or he changed
(07:59):
his name because it was theperson Cormac McCarthy
constructing Blarney castle, andhe liked the idea of that. So
that's kind of cool. Okay, soanything else you want to say
about that book? No. Okay. Ithink we're good to go. I think
you probably don't want to readthis book. Unless you're already
a fan. That's what I'm gonnaget. Yeah, I
Geoff Mair (08:20):
think it'd be love Cormac McCarthy, you love this
book. This is like it'sconsidered, you know, his. I
wouldn't call it the pinnacle ofhis writing. But it is certainly
a book where He's taking greatliberty because he's kind of
towards the end of his career.
And he's already proved thathe's a great writer. So he, it
was a little I found it a littleself indulgent, you know,
because he just wrote so much.
(08:43):
Yeah. So if you'd like to haveit prepared for you like this,
if you don't, you won't.
Unknown (08:48):
Okay, so that's a little segue, though. Cormac
McCarthy is a segue to the nextbook we're going to talk about,
which was a book that I read onmy own. And it's called
pineapple Street by JennyJackson. And it is a big book
this season. So I wouldrecommend it. I think I talked
(09:09):
about I think last episode orthe episode before the villa, we
talked about that. And that thisis kind of in that vein, it's a
light book, it's a summer read.
It's kind of of the moment, butit's not very taxing. And what
it's about, it's kind of a fishout of water stories
(09:30):
contemporary novel about familylove and class. And I would say
it's been marketed as a modernage. Age of Innocence by Edith
Wharton, and it's an inner lookat New York society. And the
title is named after the book isnamed after one of the fruit
(09:51):
streets and Brooklyn Heightswhere this book is sets. And in
Brooklyn Heights, which is likethe fancy part of Brooklyn,
there are these three streetscalled pineapple, orange and
cranberry streets. And they'reknown for their historic
architecture. And they'rebeautiful. And they're very
close to the promenade wherethis is a well known kind of
(10:13):
walkway. And the origin of thenames is interesting. Legend has
it that there was a localresident that a woman that hated
the fact that streets werealways named after wealthy
landowners. So she rippedapparently ripped down the
original street names the middleof the night and put these names
(10:34):
up. And then, but then anotherthought is that pre Civil War,
some fruit sellers used putnamed the streets after the
spirits that they sold. And itwas sort of like a modern day
billboard promotion. Yeah. Sothat that was kind of
interesting. But so this book,what it's about, it's about this
(10:56):
family called the Stocktonfamily, and they're an old
money, Brooklyn Heights family,they have a place in the
Hamptons, they belong to privateclubs. And they, the
grandparents are known as geekyDD Pippin pop. That sounds is
very waspy. And the family'smain house is known as the
(11:24):
limestone and the maincharacters, their three children
in the family, and there's acord. And then there's an eldest
daughter Darley, and thenthere's Georgiana. And but the
story is really about Sasha. Andthe book is told from multiple
points of view, which I alwaysfind fun. But Sasha is an
(11:45):
interloper. She's from RhodeIsland, her dad, I think, as a
cop, and she grew up very middleworking class, and kind of she
marries court and gets thrustinto this society. So and then
there's a little bit, you know,I won't tell you much more other
than you're really just gettingthat kind of bird's eye view.
(12:05):
And, you know, things happen,like she gets mistaken for the
help at a party. One thing thatI did think really rang true was
they play a lot of tennis inthis book, and they actually
either the author herself playstennis, or she researched it
because it was authentic, youwould know. And I would know I
(12:26):
enjoy playing tennis in my freetime. And but I you know, there
was another book that came outnot very long ago, Leanne, more
Moriarty. I think we talkedabout this, or I talked about
this on the podcast, she wrote abook recently called apples
never fall, and it's abouttennis. And it just didn't
(12:48):
really ring true. But I wantedto read one little passage in
this book that really captureskind of the vibe and the tone.
And this is about Sasha and howshe feels in this world that
she's been thrust into. So itsays Sasha felt wrong footed 90%
of the time, but alsosimultaneously felt she was
(13:12):
Molly Ringwald in 80s movie andeveryone else was the preppy
villain. Chords world was fullof pearl girls all wearing their
grandmother's earrings and crispbutton downs and loafers. As
interchangeable as they weresexless. Sasha often had the
sneaking suspicion that if shesaw them naked, they would have
(13:33):
bodies as smooth and flat asBarbies. She swore to herself
that the day she tied a cableknit sweater around her
shoulders would be the day shedied. Good for her. So that's
it. Um, I would say this book. Iliked it. And actually, if you
just want to have fun, and alsoit's always fun to read the kind
(13:55):
of the hot book of the season. iThis is a book for you. It's got
a fun cover, it comes out. Itcame out in paperback, which is
nice. You don't have to buy itin hardcover. But one of the
really interesting things is theauthor herself Jenny Jackson,
because the author is really aneditor that's this is her first
(14:15):
book and this was her pandemicproject. And she's kind of a
wunderkind over at North WA. Andshe's 43 years old. She calls
herself an aging millennial. Andshe was the editor on the Cormac
McCarthy book, The passenger,and she's known for being a
hitmaker. And the books that shelooks for are kind of those
(14:39):
books that straddle the linebetween literary and commercial
fiction. She was the editor onour favorite book of last year
tomorrow and tomorrow andtomorrow by Gabrielle Zevon. She
has edited Emily St. JohnMandel, Chris Bohjalian or
Bohjalian P You're Heller,Catherine. gagne, Jennifer
(15:00):
close. I'm reading her bookright now it's called marrying
the ketchups as Morel does,Santiago, Helen Ellis and the
actress Selma Blair, who justrecently came out with an
autobiography or memoir,
Geoff Mair (15:18):
question. Yeah. So is it a commentary on wasp?
fishness? Yeah,
Unknown (15:23):
it is. Yeah. So
Geoff Mair (15:24):
it's kind of anti Wasp business. Ah,
Unknown (15:29):
interesting. I think it's the ridiculousness of it,
right? I mean, there is a scenewhere, like, for example, one of
the daughters think it is, oh,it's the eldest daughter. So she
married her husband and didn'twant, she has husband. And she
(15:51):
didn't want to have them sign aprenup, because she thought I
think she thought it was, Idon't know, means the marriage
isn't going to work orsomething. And so because they
wouldn't sign a prenup. He theyshe lost her inheritance. And it
goes on to the next generation.
And it's sort of there's a wholestoryline around that about and
I won't get too into becausethere's a bit of a mystery
(16:14):
around that, but I don't know.
Yes, I think it is commentary.
But and some of it's ridiculous.
Like, some of these people do alot of good in the world, while
at the same time. They leavetheir job and then go, you know,
to a fancy Gala. And, you know,the Hamptons. So there's that
(16:38):
kind of sounds like a book youwould like
Geoff Mair (16:43):
to sell like a book I would leg is probably not my
genre so much, you know, I Itend to gravitate towards
certain kinds of books. Andthat's, that's probably not in
it. You know, maybe if I wantedsomething kind of later to read,
which I believe readingsomething late right now and I
play like it. So maybe I would
Unknown (17:01):
like to write that's a What are you reading now or
both?
Geoff Mair (17:05):
I'm reading romantic comedy, and it's quite, it's
quite fun. Don't say anythingmore
Unknown (17:09):
about it. It's Curtis Sittenfeld. So everyone should
read that because we're going tocome back in the fall and talk
about but anyway, okay, so thesecond book we read is a
literary fiction book. And it iscalled Ghost music by on you.
And this is a toll one ad frompineapple Street. It's not very
(17:30):
long. It's very literary, verydreamlike. I thought the best
thing about this book was justthe writing itself. But let's
tell it let me tell everyonejust a little bit about what
it's about because it's about awoman who lives in Beijing. Her
name is Sun Yan. And she sat,she was a concert pianist. And
(17:56):
she's not doing that anymore.
And she's in what appears to bea loveless marriage. She, her
husband, she lives with herhusband ballin, but he travels
all the time. It's clear, he'sgot either another life or other
priorities. He doesn't reallycare. And he is a car executive.
And so she's left at home withhis mom, who isn't very nice to
her. And she seems superunhappy. So everyone's unhappy.
(18:19):
But the one thing that issomewhat interesting is there
are talking mushrooms in thisbook. And there is a strange
orange mushroom that comes toher at night and talks to her.
So I guess we're going to callthis book has met, it's infused
(18:40):
with magical realism. And oh,yeah, and subsequent to that,
there is all of a sudden aparcel of mushrooms starts
arriving on this woman'sdoorstep every week. And so her
and her mother in law, gettogether and make things from
these exotic mushrooms. And theymake soups and stews. And so
(19:04):
there's that whole elementthere. So and then eventually
they find out who's been sendingthe package and there's a bit of
a mystery there. Sort of. Sowhat did you think of the book?
Geoff Mair (19:17):
Ah, I liked it. I didn't love it. I think I didn't
love it. It's very quiet. Quiet,but it is very dreamlike. I
agree with that. I think thewriting is absolutely beautiful.
And she creates this sort ofvery dreamlike environment,
which I think is quite quitebeautiful, but not very much
(19:38):
happens. Like it's just a very Ifound it a little slow paced. I
wanted more, you know, plotdevelopment and more more going
on. Yeah, that's sort of my takeon it.
Unknown (19:49):
I would agree. Now, I'm going to ask you what because
I'm not really sure like thesemushrooms. First of all, they're
creepy. I'm not sure what'sgoing on with the mushrooms but
What did the talking mushroommean to you?
Geoff Mair (20:03):
Yeah, there's kind of two aspects to the sort of
surreal part of the book, therewas the talking mushrooms. And
there's also like thismysterious orange cloud. I never
didn't really figure out whatthe I never came up with a
hypothesis on what the orangecloud is about. But it's got
interesting. But to me, themushrooms are really about the
stuff that gets left unsaid, youknow, between family members,
(20:27):
it's kind of like stuffed in thedark, and takes on a life of its
own. And so when you, you know,I think the concept behind the
mushrooms is when people don'ttalk about stuff, you know,
things grow out of it, that canbe bad or good, and they come
back to haunt you. And so themushrooms are actually, you
know, the mushroom at 1.0. MaybeI shouldn't well, I'll just,
Unknown (20:50):
I think you can well, I don't know how
Geoff Mair (20:55):
I'll say it. You know, the one point the the
mushroom at one point reveals,well, I'm not really a mushroom,
I'm work close to a ghost. Andso that was really telling to
me, because it really, to mesort of is, is like the ghosts
of the things that are leftunsaid or the ghosts, you know,
the sort of all the things thatare left in the closet that
(21:16):
don't get talked about, right,and the ghosts come back to
haunt you later on in life. Andthat's that's sort of what
happens. Oh, it's more to me,it's more of a ghost or even a
surrealist? Well,
Unknown (21:26):
it's called Ghost music. Exactly. So I don't think
you respond that that doesn'tmatter did the magical realism
as a literary device work foryou?
Geoff Mair (21:36):
I read a ton of magical realism that is my
genre. So I thought I reallyliked this book. And I liked it.
But, you know, what I found withthe that part of it is it wasn't
super integrated in it wouldhappen, you know, there was some
mushroom stuff at the beginningthere was then there's like a
long stretch in the middle,where there, there wasn't sort
(21:57):
of surrealist stuff going on.
And then you know, there was abig mushroom part of the, you
know, in, say, last the lastquarter of the book, or last
money and quite quarter. So Ikind of would have liked it more
integrated. Because it wouldhave kept my interest a bit
more, I think.
Unknown (22:12):
I thought the descriptions of the food was
great. And there's a lot onmusic if you're interested in
music. And another criticism Ido of the book of the book, is I
didn't find at the end, thingstotally tied together to a way
that was satisfying for me likeI, I really felt it was about
(22:33):
the atmosphere that this authorwas creating, which I thought
she did a good job.
Geoff Mair (22:39):
That was the best part of that is like this kind
of dream. Like,
Unknown (22:42):
yeah, if you like literary fiction, I think you
should look at it. I would givethis four out of five stars. I
personally actually enjoyed itmore than pineapple Street. Just
because I thought it wasbeautiful writing. But I did it
for it is not. It is not a pageturner. Let's just say
Geoff Mair (23:02):
you got to go into like the words and stories
Unknown (23:06):
on you a little bit about her. She was born and
raised in Beijing. And she spenttime in London, New York and
Paris. And her debut, she's Shelooks young to me. Well, yeah,
everyone kind of looks youngnow. But she's I think she's
quite young, young air quotes.
Geoff Mair (23:28):
The opposite? I think they have limits.
Unknown (23:30):
Yeah, I know that. I know. That's just not. I know,
just always like, oh, you know,they're our age. And they're
like, 35 No, no, that's nottrue. But you do. You do often
think that's not true. Anyway,she's the author. Her first book
is called braised pork and I, itcame out in 2020. And I think
(23:51):
it's a similar kind of, I thinkthere's a lot of food. And I
think there might be somemagical realism there. So, um,
oh, she has been compared toHaruki Murakami, who is a
fabulous Japanese writer with acult following. And he's written
the book she would know by himpotentially is the windup bird,
(24:13):
Chronicle and Kafka on theshore. So those are two
different things people canconsider. And let's talk about
something that I know you loved.
And that's a show we've beenbinging the diplomat. And I
think a lot of you have beenwatching this and if you
haven't, you might want to checkit out. It's a soapy fun show
(24:34):
about a diplomat Keri Russell,who is the ambassador, American
Ambassador to London, which isthe cherry plum job for other
ambassadorships, United Statesand her rogue dastardly husband
Rufus, played by Rufus Sewell.
(25:00):
and they are so they play Kateand how Weiler and they've just
landed in London she's taking onthis job. And that's the story.
So what do you think?
Geoff Mair (25:14):
I think it's blank as hell Wyler is also a
diplomat. But he you know, andhe was a diplomat, you know, in
some sort of like, I can'tremember where but in like a
very hot region where there'sand he, you know, now he is the
spouse of a diplomat, his wifeand he doesn't know what to do
(25:34):
with them self so he's a funnycharacter because he he really
wants to help Keri Russell'scharacter be successful, right,
you know, diplomat to England,right. But he's doing it in such
an underhanded and like all theworst are things you think about
international politics. Yeah,all the moves. And it drives her
crazy. But but his buddies ishelping him and their
(25:58):
relationships funny because he Ithink he loves or, but they kind
of hate each other too.
Unknown (26:05):
Yeah, they definitely don't like each other. They keep
saying they're gonna getdivorced, but
Geoff Mair (26:10):
Well, I think he's in love with it, though.
Unknown (26:13):
Yeah. Anyway, there's definitely going to be a season
two, because we watch the wholething and they don't even they
don't even it's obviouslythere's coming. I kind of want
like, I love like, BBC kind ofdramas. And I felt like they
would they it's more this ismore soapy version of it, like I
(26:37):
but I definitely enjoyed it. AndI liked that we could watch it
together.
Geoff Mair (26:40):
Well, I kind of like the you know, the view into sort
of like, international politicsand how countries, you know,
dedicate relate to each other,although we know somebody who's
in that world, and she said it'stotally unrealistic.
Unknown (26:54):
But she said she liked it. She liked the show. So yeah.
And okay, so check that out. AndI wanted to conclude by highly
recommending a podcast calledwiser than me with Julia Louis
Dreyfus. It's just come out. Andit's the number one podcast
right now. I think it'ssurpassed smartlace. And it's
(27:19):
Julia interviewing older women,and talking about their lives.
And it's done. It's very candidas the best podcasts are. And
it's also funny as, as she is,and I listened to the episode
she did with Ruth Rachel. Andit's hilarious, because at one
(27:40):
point, they're having this greatconversation. And she's like, so
I have a question. And shedelves into a very personal
question about a recipe thathave roots that she's tried and
didn't quite work out. And whatdoes she think and shouldn't GM
or almonds should she had this?
And I don't know. It just wasfun, because it sort of seemed
like that's what you would dowith a friend. So she interviews
(28:02):
Fran Liebowitz Jane Fonda, AmyChan, and Elekta. It has it has
heart, it isn't just likesmartlace I love smartlace. But
sometimes it doesn't go deepenough.
Geoff Mair (28:19):
I'm super surprised that surpass meritless. That's a
Unknown (28:23):
well, I could be wrong, but I believe it has. So it's
also new. So yeah. Anyway, Ithat's all I have to say. And
thank you so much for comingColiseum with me today. And I
hope you're going to be doing alot of reading. So Duff has now
he's gone to DJ school, which Ithink we've talked about before,
(28:46):
which is taking away from someof his reading activities. Yeah.
So I hope you don't give up. Sowe have a delay on this podcast
because he was otherwiseoccupied. But anyway, let's
together. Okay, so happy readingeveryone over the summer, and
(29:07):
we're gonna do one actually,we're gonna do one more, we're
going to come back with one ofmy favorite guests. Sorry, Jeff.
But equally equally favoriteguests is Susan Matheson who's
going to talk to everyone whatthey should be reading this
summer. So thanks so much, andI'll talk to you later. Awesome.
Thanks, Amy. Thanks.
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