August 17, 2024 • 36 mins
Ever hear a voice in your head telling you that you can do more to serve others? Mona Nguonly heard that voice in a big way, dropped a successful career in HR, and started a family run not for profit. She is now the full-time executive director of Koun Khmer Foundation, a 501C-3 nonprofit that is providing much needed school supplies and improving the learning environment of underserved rural high school students in Southeast Asia.
Our listeners can visit the website Koun Khmer Foundation – Making a difference in the lives of those who needs us most, the children of Cambodia to learn more or make a donation..
Mona is also keenly interested in learning more about grant writing. If you have knowledge and a willingness to share your talents, please drop Mona an email at mona@kounkhmer.org.
I believe you will find her story interesting an inspiring!
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to ReFirement Life, the podcast for anyone navigating life transitions or planning
(00:06):
to make life transitions to ensure your next years are your best years.
Listen in for insightful, generous, and sometimes humorous conversation.
It's time to get fired up with Christine Zamuda and Muge Wood, your hosts for this
latest episode of ReFirement Life.
(00:28):
Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 50.
Today we have an amazing story and this session will be entitled,
Rigniting Hope, Bridging Educational Gaps in Rural Cambodia.
I have a wonderful, wonderful guest, Mona Nonly.
And before we get into our topic, I just wanted to do a quick, quick announcement.
(00:52):
We've got kind of a fun episode lined up for our 50th podcast and we've noticed that we
have a lot of listeners in Dublin, Ireland and it just so happens that I am headed there
next week and we're going to do a recording from Long Hall Pub, believe it or not, on August
(01:15):
25th.
The address there is 57 South Great George's Street in Dublin and I'll be there from 3pm
to 4pm.
So if you're in the neighborhood, we'd love to meet you.
We'd love to maybe even introduce you on the show and maybe you'll meet one of my relatives
(01:36):
or two.
So anyway, thanks so much, Mona.
Welcome, welcome.
Just a little bit about Mona.
So Mona is the founder and executive director of town, Khmer.
Go in Khmer.
Go in Khmer.
Thank you so much.
A 501-3C non-for-profit that is providing much needed school supplies and improving the
(02:01):
learning environments of the underserved rural high school students in Southeast Asia.
And her focus is on Cambodia at this time as she has a great connection to the country.
That's where she was born.
She and her husband of 28 years also raised two grown children who happen to also be business
(02:21):
owners.
So entrepreneurship is in the family.
Prior to founding the foundation, Mona was a successful business development executive
in HR, outsourcing and human capital management.
She is the second in her family of six siblings.
I'm guessing you know how to get along well with others.
(02:42):
Yep.
And with that, we want to welcome Mona to the show.
I also want to thank Lisa Conway who introduced Mona and I.
Just really grateful for this introduction.
I was incredibly moved by Mona's story and excited for our listeners to hear it.
So let's get into it.
(03:03):
You know, first, the story you have of your own personal experience leaving Cambodia as
a child is very moving.
Can you share a little bit about that journey and how that connected you to this mission?
Absolutely.
And thank you very much for having me on today.
I appreciate the time.
When I was seven years old, the country fell to the communist Pol Pot regime and that was
(03:30):
in April of 1975.
So I was on one of the last planes leaving the capital of Namping and I could hear the
bombs just going off all around me.
And this is in the city.
So there were also bombings in the countryside.
But as we were boarding the plane to leave Cambodia, we were one of the fortunate ones
(03:50):
because millions didn't make it.
But it is a country where I was born.
It's a country that's been ravaged by war, by genocide.
And recently I took my family back there on a vacation because it's been 50 years since
we left and we've never been back.
My husband has a lot of trauma related to it because he was one of the unfortunate ones
(04:12):
who were caught in the concentration camp and he had spent four years there under really
grueling circumstances.
So he hasn't been too happy to go back, but we finally did it.
And when we did, there was an immediate connection with the people, with the culture, with the
food and it's understandable, right?
(04:35):
It's natural.
It's where I'm from.
But more importantly than that, there was a little side trip that we took off of the
beaten path to go see a school that we helped to rebuild back in 2000 and I think it was
2011.
Anyway, it was just an alpha thought to go and see this school.
And when we went there, we just saw how desperate the conditions were for the school because
(05:00):
we're used to being in America where things are clean.
You've got access to education.
You've got access to clean water and to great teachers.
But over there, the stark difference was that the environment wasn't as inviting, but the
fire that the kids had in them to learn was amazing.
(05:24):
And we felt like we needed to do something more than just stop by and say hello and give
some money.
And we were like, hey, we're going to do enough because clearly these kids wanted to learn
and they needed the resources to try and catch up with the rest of the world.
And so my husband and I came back from this vacation and something within us just kept
(05:49):
nagging us saying, hey, we got to do more.
We can do more.
So let's do more.
But that trip back in January of this year has really changed the trajectory of our lives
to refocus my energy and it heals some of the trauma growing up as a kid who experienced
that kind of war.
(06:09):
Even though I experienced here far from the country, there's still emotional healing that
has to be done.
And that trip really was the beginning of all of the healing.
And that's where the foundation was found because we felt like we could do more.
And so we did.
Yeah, that's amazing.
I'm so I'm imagining all of those children are just so glad that you listened to that
(06:33):
call and made a bigger connection to their needs.
Wow.
So as are we.
Yeah, exactly.
And I love what you said about it.
It has helped the healing.
I think a lot of people who are in challenging places, sometimes it's so challenging that
(06:54):
you can't get up to help anybody else.
But for those who can, it's amazing what that does for your soul, for your spirit to give
to others.
And I'm so glad that you guys have found this path.
So so amazed at the at the bravery of just starting another not-for-profit and then doing
(07:15):
business in another country.
While you have some roots, you also left when you were seven years old, right?
So there's probably a lot of learnings.
What were some of the biggest challenges you experienced when you said, OK, we're going
to do this, we're going to stand up and not for profit and then actually make a difference
in another country?
You know, Christine, I thought it was going to be a lot simpler than this, to be honest
(07:38):
with you.
I thought it was just let's ask folks for money and then take that money and go buy the things
that these students and schools need.
But it is running a business.
It takes a different skill set and some of the challenges has been for me personally,
it's the language barrier.
I've been here in the United States for over 50 years.
So this is my what I speak every day.
(08:01):
And so having to communicate with some of the folks back in Cambodia in that language has
been challenging.
But luckily I've got my parents who can still speak and they are able to get on FaceTime
with us to to translate for me, if you will.
And one of the teachers there speaks pretty darn good English.
And so he's been a great help for me as well as I'm trying to get things lifted off of
(08:25):
the grounds in Cambodia.
But the biggest difference I would have to say is that when I was doing business development
for an HR outsourcing company, I knew that if a prospect or a company gave me money for
goods and services, we could deliver on that.
But the mission is so different when it's a non for profit that you have to craft a message
(08:52):
you've got to be able to appeal to the donor to what's important to them and to bring their
donations to life to explain how that money is going to be used.
And that's just a storytelling skill set that I'm having to work on.
And really the the found finding money to give back to these students and these schools
(09:17):
has been a huge challenge because I don't know how to write grants.
I don't know where to go to get those money other than friends and families and businesses.
But apparently there are some set asides by larger foundations that would support small
foundation missions like ours.
So that's been a challenge.
(09:38):
But also just getting the business off the ground because you know what it's like you're
coaching other business owners and you know that they become the cheap bottle washer,
right?
You're the CEO, CFO, the CTO, see everything.
And so it's been a challenge to try and get this off the ground just by myself.
(10:01):
While I've got a board of directors who are my family members and they have different
skill sets, it's still at the end of the day me executing the mission.
And so that's been a bit of a challenge.
I just don't have enough time in the day to do all the things that I need to do.
But I hope that one day I'll be able to find full time staff and pay them and help and get
them to help me out.
(10:22):
So that's going to challenge as well.
Yeah, well, you've already done so much.
I mean, if you look at the website and you're sharing some of the successes and sometimes
we're our own toughest critic, right?
I mean, you got to walk before you run.
And it's interesting to me too to hear that your family is on the board of directors.
I'm sure that there are some opinions there, right?
(10:43):
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes, lots of opinions there.
Yes.
You have to tell me who's the loudest.
I would have to say not necessarily the loudest, but the strongest.
That would be my son.
Oh, good.
I mean, my kids were there when we all had that calling back in Cambodia, but he's a
(11:04):
technical guy and he's like, you know, mom, you don't really need to have a website.
Just get a go fund me and do it that way.
And I didn't want to do it like that.
But I respect his opinion and he doesn't say much, but when he does, I've got to listen.
So he's one of my lean-on.
I love intergenerational learning too.
(11:25):
And I love that you're open to his ideas because, you know, the younger people coming up, they
do have ways and means and different approaches.
And many of them are pretty successful if we take a listen.
So that's really interesting.
So your family's involved.
And you know, from what I've learned, your family places of really high value on education.
(11:50):
And how did your parents and their connection to education influence you on your own path
here?
Sure.
Interestingly enough, my parents didn't graduate from college.
My mother never even finished high school.
She grew up in a generation where women married early and she was quite ill as a child.
(12:11):
So she never finished high school.
But man, she is the smartest woman I know in terms of her just business skills.
And she's really the backbone of our family.
She knew that if she could have had an education and she says this again, she goes, I can't
imagine what I'd be like if I just had formal education.
And I think she would be a force to reckon with.
(12:33):
And I get my drive from her in that sense.
But my dad speaks seven languages and fluently.
So that really helps us a lot during the time of growing up.
But they didn't have formal education.
But even as a kid, I remember being sent to learn different languages, like go to Chinese
school to learn a different language in Cambodia.
(12:56):
But when we got here to the United States, we just didn't have the financial resources.
But luckily, education was free.
And they encouraged us to focus on schooling.
Making friends wasn't so important, but definitely going to school, getting good grades.
They weren't helicopter parents, but they were definitely attentive to what we needed.
(13:17):
And that instilled in me that school was going to be very important.
And my sisters and brothers and I are probably the first in our family to get a formal four-year
education.
And because of that, we feel a heavy responsibility to do something with that education, to give
back, to earn an income, to support our family.
(13:40):
And because of it, my husband and I feel that our children needed an education.
Because if there's anything we can give them that they can take with them, it's going to
be that learning.
And we can leave them a house.
We can leave them a car.
But all of those things can go away.
But no one can take away what you've learned and the education that you've developed up
(14:02):
here.
So we thought that education should be the focus.
And it wasn't always easy for the kids because we grew up here in Northern Virginia where
everybody's a straight A student.
Everything is so competitive.
But they did it.
They went to school.
They're now out.
And they are in their careers at the beginning stages.
But it just fills my heart with joy to see that they completed their college.
(14:25):
We gave them this opportunity.
Now it's the rest is up to them what they do with it.
But it's really important.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
All the tools are there.
And take them out and use them.
And I'm sure when you see that and see the benefits and experiences that your own family
has and then you go back to Cambodia and see crowded conditions and not enough teachers.
(14:50):
And as you said, this thirst and hunger to learn that just spurred you on even more.
Yes, it did.
Yes, for sure.
Yeah.
Wow.
So talk to us, you mentioned going through the classrooms and visiting the school and
seeing the conditions and then just having that calling.
(15:12):
Was there a moment that just defined it for you while you were on site at the school?
Oh my gosh, yes.
Just you asking me that question, Christina, I've got hairs on my goosebumps because I
will always remember that moment.
So we were touring the school and it was an unexpected visit, as I said earlier.
(15:34):
So we have the principal and one of the teachers walking us around the campus.
The campus, when I say campus, it's dirt on the ground.
There is no grass or playground.
The basketball court that we had donated back in 2011 had rust on it.
The classrooms were way overcrowded.
(15:57):
There were 76 students to a teacher in a classroom and because the school was so overcrowded
that they have to take shifts and turns and go into school, like ninth and eleventh graders
go a certain day and then the tenth and twelfth graders would go another day.
There's no hot lunches in the school just because that's not the culture.
(16:19):
Kids go home so that they can help their parents out at home during the school lunchtime and
they eat whatever it's home.
And if you're from a poor family, you can imagine what that's like.
But as we were touring the facility, it wasn't just those stark differences between Cambodian
campus and an American high school campus.
(16:40):
It was on a walk that we had near the back between two buildings.
And I saw this rusted hubcap hanging from a tree and I asked the principal, what is that?
Because it just seemed so out of place in the school.
And he said, well, that is a relic from the pull-pot regime.
And I said, what do you mean?
(17:01):
He goes, well, we left it there because it marks the death path.
And the death path is where prisoners of war during the genocide would walk.
And at the end of that walk, they would be shot in the head.
And the reason is to control the population and to also not have to waste food on these
(17:24):
prisoners of war.
And it turned out that the school was once used as a POW camp and a concentration camp
for four years during the genocide.
And my father-in-law, we learned, was a prisoner at that camp at that time.
(17:44):
When we heard about the death path, we were all, I think, shaken to the core, if you will,
because it stopped us in our track.
And we asked them why they kept it there.
And the principal said, it's because it's a reminder of how far our people have come,
so we don't forget.
(18:06):
And these children, they're happy to be there.
They don't know that this was once a prisoner of war, but to the elders, they do know.
And our call to action at that point was like, oh, my gosh, how can we heal from such a tragedy?
And how did these people do it and have a school that students are now thriving in regardless
(18:27):
of their circumstances?
But that bell is on my website.
And it's also in one of our family photo books, because that, to us, was the calling card that
made us do what we're doing today.
I just couldn't sleep for weeks after coming back from Cambodia when I had heard that story.
(18:47):
Yeah, that's so powerful, so powerful.
I mean, wow.
What they've taken and just put something that, yeah, it just gives life and meaning.
And as you said, I mean, education, no one can take that away from you regardless.
So it's just, wow, what a wonderful and powerful story.
(19:11):
Thank you for sharing that.
Of course.
It's amazing.
Wow.
So if we move on to thinking about some of the other challenges that this group has, you're
trying to help put more teachers in the classrooms, get those numbers down.
(19:34):
Wow.
I mean, can you imagine a Fairfax County teacher teaching 76 kids at once?
No, that would never happen, right?
No, no.
And what is the, and I'm just also thinking about the student experience from what you
just shared.
They're going basically half day and every other day almost.
So not a lot of time even to soak up what's available to learn.
(20:01):
Right, right.
Wow.
So you have this rich background in HR and business development.
How has some of what you've learned professionally come into play here in this next chapter?
Well, sure.
I, you know, who would have thought this, my husband says it all the time now and goes,
(20:26):
who would have thought that you would be doing something like this?
But it seems to me like it's such a natural progression for personally because in business
development, you are crafting a message, you are listening to your prospect for their needs,
and then you're putting together a proposal to solve those pains, right?
(20:49):
And every company and nonprofit, any organization have a real strong need for HR.
And I look at every business through the lens of equity, transparency, and speaking to understand
them.
And so I feel like starting this nonprofit has been a little bit smooth in many ways
(21:14):
because I'm asking the questions to understand.
I'm listening to the concerns of the recipients of our donors and listening to the goals of
our stakeholders who are donors and what they want out of this.
My job is to foster a supportive environment around the foundation's community, whether
(21:36):
that is me within my family or us connecting with Boots on the Ground in Cambodia with
the people who can deliver these things or getting in touch, having a conversation with
you, right?
So all of these communicating and communication, yeah, all of these communications is a big
(21:57):
part of human resources and business development.
So in that sense, I'm glad that I have that experience to bring with me to the foundation.
And as we add staff, I know what kind of an organization I want to run.
I want one where people are valued for their experience.
(22:18):
They are going to be promoted for their accomplishments.
And so ideally in my head, I know what this can look like in five to 10 years.
But right now, the only people I'm managing is me.
And so it's been a fun journey.
Right, right.
Well, in the long run, as you know, if you hire right, that's more than half the battle,
right?
(22:39):
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's amazing.
So good that you have that.
And listening is such an important skill.
And it's underrated, under talked about.
You have a lot of charismatic leaders who do a lot of talking.
But if you do an equal amount of listening, you're also better off in a lot of ways.
(23:02):
You said it.
Yes, for sure.
Yes.
What did they say?
You know, God gave you two years in one mouth.
One mouth.
That's right.
Yeah.
Use it accordingly.
Exactly.
My father used to tell me that quite a lot growing up.
So you've been back since you started the foundation.
(23:24):
What kind of successes are you seeing and what work still has to be done?
Oh, gosh, there's a lot of work that still has to be done.
The foundation is only two months old.
And I am already seeing the connection that donors have with the recipients.
And right now, my donors are my families and my friends.
(23:46):
And they know that we need money to repaint the buildings, that we need money to buy new
assets.
We need money to get the school supplies that the teachers have to pay for out of pocket,
which in some ways is similar here to the United States, isn't it?
Our teachers have to spend their own money.
And that's a shame.
But those dollars that my family and friends are donating are going directly to buy those
(24:14):
because it's just me as the overhead.
But where I'm really, truly seeing the connection is, as I'm telling the story and why I'm doing
this, I see the healing power of conversation with those adults who suffered the trauma
of the genocide and growing up in that generation.
The conversation that we're having validates that they're not alone in the trauma and that
(24:34):
it's a very personal journey.
And like you said earlier, Christine, when we opened up, some people take that pain
and push it down.
And other people have to find a way to use that pain to empower them to do something
else.
And so I have been so blessed to have some great conversations with folks who either
(24:57):
they were military because they serve at the time of the war and they are happy to meet
somebody who survived it.
But it's been a very personal journey for me when I have these conversations with friends
and family, and it's a deeper connection of that relationship.
It's not meant to solicit sympathy, but rather to empower us all to know that we survive
(25:20):
and that we must do what we can, when we can, to help these children have the opportunities
that we have.
And so I am really beginning to heal myself because I didn't realize there was trauma
that I grew up with.
I thought it was normal to grow up the way that I grew up, where parents were super busy
(25:41):
working, didn't have much time for the emotional support, focusing on education.
But we grew up without the outward affection of love from our parents because it's just
not the way that they are.
And so my brothers and sisters and I got that from each other.
And we grew up as parents giving our kids that because it's what we want.
(26:05):
I know it's a little bit off topic, but this foundation has really allowed me to, like
I said, deepen my relationships that already exist.
And some relationships I've had to cut because it just wasn't working.
So it's been a terrific journey, self-reflection, I'll say.
(26:26):
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Well, and likely a greater appreciation for even your parents' perspective, right?
I mean, if you're getting your children and yourself on a plane to survive, there might
not be a lot of time for thinking about the next step or, you know, it's just like you're,
(26:48):
that's just a whole different, what's the word?
You're just on a whole different speed.
It's survival.
It's not survival mode.
Yeah.
Right.
They grew up, they raised us on survival mode.
And that's exhausting after a while.
But I am so close to my parents today.
They live like two doors down for me, and starting this foundation and getting out of
(27:11):
that rat race of the corporate world has given me a new sense of, I need to give back to
them too, because they gave us an opportunity to grow up in an amazing country and to see
what we've been able to accomplish.
And I want to spend time giving them back my time, taking them places, to doctors, to
(27:32):
vacations, like my sisters and I are taking my dad on a diet and daughter trip to Alaska.
So, you know, we can spend time with him.
I love it.
But it's been an amazing journey for me.
And they are so many surprises around every corner.
Yeah.
I hope a lot of our listeners are taking this moment in because when we get to midlife and
(27:52):
we have raised our own kids and have an appreciation for a new appreciation, like a 360 degree
view of our parents, it's really wonderful to have that gratitude and share with your
parents how you feel about them.
And you're doing it in so many ways, not only spending time, but you're showing them the
(28:14):
legacy that they have created.
And this legacy is giving back to the country where they are from helping others and, you
know, telling them how you feel about them is just amazing.
I just encourage all of our viewers to just take that in and think about your own situation
(28:34):
and really have you shown your parents that opportunity if they're still here to hear
it, right?
That's awesome, Mona.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So, as you build this foundation and you are weaving the foundation into the fabric of
(29:00):
Cambodia and the education system there, how are you working with the community on the
ground?
Are you learning things there?
And what would you share with our listeners on that aspect?
Sure.
I think that community collaboration will play a vital role, you know, in the success
of our mission.
(29:21):
And this is where it's important to have boots on the ground to execute and deliver the mission
in the Khmer communities.
Some of the challenges, though, has been, as I mentioned earlier, the language barrier,
which we can overcome with translator.
But it's also breaking a cycle of how education is viewed in Cambodia.
(29:42):
For example, before the Pol Pot regime took over, there were 20,000 teachers in Cambodia.
After Pol Pot, there were only 5,000 teachers left because they killed the educated class.
They did not want education to empower the people to uprise against them.
And so, trying to insert myself into the Ministry of Education isn't going to work because Cambodia
(30:11):
has their own structure, just like we do here in the United States.
There's funding for it.
And I don't want to say that I don't want to work with the government.
I'd rather work directly with the community, the people who need it the most.
And I need more help in that area as well to find the next school or the next three schools
that we're going to help.
(30:33):
And the way that I have been doing this is by working directly with one of the teachers
at the high school that I met there in Siam Ria.
His name is Borom.
And Borom and I have been communicating through Instagram, through Facebook, through phone
calls and emails, and just him also putting his feelers out to see what other schools
(30:54):
in the area that might need help as well, even though our focus right now is to tackle
this one particular school.
But I don't know what it's going to look like in five years.
I would think that we need to have someone full time or a couple of part time people
in Cambodia working within the community to change the mindset.
(31:14):
Because today to this day, even though the enrollment of students have gone up way up,
the system is not caught up with the training of the teachers.
Teachers don't get paid well there.
They earn about $150 to $200 a month.
That's their salary.
They can't feed a family off of that.
(31:35):
And so, sometimes teachers have to resort to asking students for money in order to buy
the school supplies.
And these students who live in these farming communities in the rural areas, they don't
have any disposable cash.
Even though education is free there, you still have to pay for your supplies, your commute
(31:57):
into the school because there's no buses.
Either you walk or you ride a moped.
And most family only own one moped.
So if the father is taking that to work, how's the kid getting to school?
And so it's going to be very grassroots.
Cambodia is not a very big country, but it is 17.5 million people living there.
(32:18):
Most of them in the city.
So the challenge for us will be to go into the very rural Cambodia and figure out who
are the people in the town that the community listens to and getting them to tell us what
do they think they need.
That's where the work will be for us to get through to the community is through the elders
(32:39):
and changing the mindset of send the kids to school.
Don't make them go work on the farm or the factories or go sell souvenir or trinkets.
Let's get them to school.
Let's get them completed with high school so that they can see there's opportunity beyond
just the primary and secondary schools.
Right.
(33:00):
Yeah.
Some of that just sounds like it's going to be one conversation at a time.
Yes.
Yes, it has to be.
I don't know that you can get a bunch of people together because each province had their own
culture.
And so you've got to ingrain yourself into that and find out who are the influencers
and work your way through it that way.
(33:20):
And that's where those business skills come in handy.
Right.
Right.
Love it.
So as we wind down, we want to share your website, obviously, and help people understand
how they could get more information.
So I'm going to spell the website.
(33:41):
It's K-O-U-N-K-H-M-E-R dot org.
That's right.
And I'm sure people can subscribe and donate today.
And I know this story has certainly moved me.
I'm sure it's moved many of the listeners as well.
(34:01):
How else could our listeners provide support to your foundation, Mona?
Gosh, thank you for asking that.
As I mentioned earlier, one of the things that I'm struggling with is finding bigger
donors.
And that's going to come from foundation monies of larger organizations.
And I am not a grant writer.
(34:23):
I need help if there's any of your listeners out there that have expertise in writing grants.
If they could help me out, donate a couple hours or educate me how to do that, because
this is going to be a skill set that's very new to me.
I've got to embrace it if I'm going to grow this.
So any grant writers out there who knows the education feel and works with foreign NGOs,
(34:49):
please hit me up on Instagram, on LinkedIn, and on Facebook.
And of course, leave me a message if you'd like.
Oh, that's a great invitation for anyone who wants to, I guess, fill your own cup with
some service and some purpose, right?
(35:10):
And it doesn't take much, as you mentioned.
It could be a couple of hours.
Yeah.
So I think with that, we will wrap up.
I'm so happy that you shared your story today.
I'm looking forward to sending this podcast far and wide so that more people hear the
(35:32):
story and can assist.
Mona, you are certainly just, when I meet people like you and I hear your story and
I see just the immediate action that you've taken.
Seriously, you're an angel on Earth and I'm wishing you so much success, so much in what
(35:52):
you're doing, and thank you again for being such a wonderful guest.
Thank you.
I really appreciate the platform.
This has been amazing and you're right.
The time did fly by.
Appreciate it.
All right.
So with that, we will sign off until next time.
Thank you for listening.
Our hope is to spark a little joy, inspire, and educate our listeners in ways to live
(36:15):
an even more meaningful life.
If you have reactions to share from what you've heard, please visit our website, refinement.life,
to leave a voice message.
You may even be featured in a future episode.
To keep in touch, subscribe to our podcast, Re-Firement Life, using the podcast player
of your choice.
Always remember, you are never too old to set a new goal or to dream a new dream.
(36:40):
Thanks again for joining us on this episode.
Until next time.
Welcome to ReFirement Life, the podcast for anyone navigating life transitions or planning
(00:06):
to make life transitions to ensure your next years are your best years.
Listen in for insightful, generous, and sometimes humorous conversation.
It's time to get fired up with Christine Zamuda and Muge Wood, your hosts for this
latest episode of ReFirement Life.
(00:28):
Hello everyone and welcome to Episode 50.
Today we have an amazing story and this session will be entitled,
Rigniting Hope, Bridging Educational Gaps in Rural Cambodia.
I have a wonderful, wonderful guest, Mona Nonly.
And before we get into our topic, I just wanted to do a quick, quick announcement.
(00:52):
We've got kind of a fun episode lined up for our 50th podcast and we've noticed that we
have a lot of listeners in Dublin, Ireland and it just so happens that I am headed there
next week and we're going to do a recording from Long Hall Pub, believe it or not, on August
(01:15):
25th.
The address there is 57 South Great George's Street in Dublin and I'll be there from 3pm
to 4pm.
So if you're in the neighborhood, we'd love to meet you.
We'd love to maybe even introduce you on the show and maybe you'll meet one of my relatives
(01:36):
or two.
So anyway, thanks so much, Mona.
Welcome, welcome.
Just a little bit about Mona.
So Mona is the founder and executive director of town, Khmer.
Go in Khmer.
Go in Khmer.
Thank you so much.
A 501-3C non-for-profit that is providing much needed school supplies and improving the
(02:01):
learning environments of the underserved rural high school students in Southeast Asia.
And her focus is on Cambodia at this time as she has a great connection to the country.
That's where she was born.
She and her husband of 28 years also raised two grown children who happen to also be business
(02:21):
owners.
So entrepreneurship is in the family.
Prior to founding the foundation, Mona was a successful business development executive
in HR, outsourcing and human capital management.
She is the second in her family of six siblings.
I'm guessing you know how to get along well with others.
(02:42):
Yep.
And with that, we want to welcome Mona to the show.
I also want to thank Lisa Conway who introduced Mona and I.
Just really grateful for this introduction.
I was incredibly moved by Mona's story and excited for our listeners to hear it.
So let's get into it.
(03:03):
You know, first, the story you have of your own personal experience leaving Cambodia as
a child is very moving.
Can you share a little bit about that journey and how that connected you to this mission?
Absolutely.
And thank you very much for having me on today.
I appreciate the time.
When I was seven years old, the country fell to the communist Pol Pot regime and that was
(03:30):
in April of 1975.
So I was on one of the last planes leaving the capital of Namping and I could hear the
bombs just going off all around me.
And this is in the city.
So there were also bombings in the countryside.
But as we were boarding the plane to leave Cambodia, we were one of the fortunate ones
(03:50):
because millions didn't make it.
But it is a country where I was born.
It's a country that's been ravaged by war, by genocide.
And recently I took my family back there on a vacation because it's been 50 years since
we left and we've never been back.
My husband has a lot of trauma related to it because he was one of the unfortunate ones
(04:12):
who were caught in the concentration camp and he had spent four years there under really
grueling circumstances.
So he hasn't been too happy to go back, but we finally did it.
And when we did, there was an immediate connection with the people, with the culture, with the
food and it's understandable, right?
(04:35):
It's natural.
It's where I'm from.
But more importantly than that, there was a little side trip that we took off of the
beaten path to go see a school that we helped to rebuild back in 2000 and I think it was
2011.
Anyway, it was just an alpha thought to go and see this school.
And when we went there, we just saw how desperate the conditions were for the school because
(05:00):
we're used to being in America where things are clean.
You've got access to education.
You've got access to clean water and to great teachers.
But over there, the stark difference was that the environment wasn't as inviting, but the
fire that the kids had in them to learn was amazing.
(05:24):
And we felt like we needed to do something more than just stop by and say hello and give
some money.
And we were like, hey, we're going to do enough because clearly these kids wanted to learn
and they needed the resources to try and catch up with the rest of the world.
And so my husband and I came back from this vacation and something within us just kept
(05:49):
nagging us saying, hey, we got to do more.
We can do more.
So let's do more.
But that trip back in January of this year has really changed the trajectory of our lives
to refocus my energy and it heals some of the trauma growing up as a kid who experienced
that kind of war.
(06:09):
Even though I experienced here far from the country, there's still emotional healing that
has to be done.
And that trip really was the beginning of all of the healing.
And that's where the foundation was found because we felt like we could do more.
And so we did.
Yeah, that's amazing.
I'm so I'm imagining all of those children are just so glad that you listened to that
(06:33):
call and made a bigger connection to their needs.
Wow.
So as are we.
Yeah, exactly.
And I love what you said about it.
It has helped the healing.
I think a lot of people who are in challenging places, sometimes it's so challenging that
(06:54):
you can't get up to help anybody else.
But for those who can, it's amazing what that does for your soul, for your spirit to give
to others.
And I'm so glad that you guys have found this path.
So so amazed at the at the bravery of just starting another not-for-profit and then doing
(07:15):
business in another country.
While you have some roots, you also left when you were seven years old, right?
So there's probably a lot of learnings.
What were some of the biggest challenges you experienced when you said, OK, we're going
to do this, we're going to stand up and not for profit and then actually make a difference
in another country?
You know, Christine, I thought it was going to be a lot simpler than this, to be honest
(07:38):
with you.
I thought it was just let's ask folks for money and then take that money and go buy the things
that these students and schools need.
But it is running a business.
It takes a different skill set and some of the challenges has been for me personally,
it's the language barrier.
I've been here in the United States for over 50 years.
So this is my what I speak every day.
(08:01):
And so having to communicate with some of the folks back in Cambodia in that language has
been challenging.
But luckily I've got my parents who can still speak and they are able to get on FaceTime
with us to to translate for me, if you will.
And one of the teachers there speaks pretty darn good English.
And so he's been a great help for me as well as I'm trying to get things lifted off of
(08:25):
the grounds in Cambodia.
But the biggest difference I would have to say is that when I was doing business development
for an HR outsourcing company, I knew that if a prospect or a company gave me money for
goods and services, we could deliver on that.
But the mission is so different when it's a non for profit that you have to craft a message
(08:52):
you've got to be able to appeal to the donor to what's important to them and to bring their
donations to life to explain how that money is going to be used.
And that's just a storytelling skill set that I'm having to work on.
And really the the found finding money to give back to these students and these schools
(09:17):
has been a huge challenge because I don't know how to write grants.
I don't know where to go to get those money other than friends and families and businesses.
But apparently there are some set asides by larger foundations that would support small
foundation missions like ours.
So that's been a challenge.
(09:38):
But also just getting the business off the ground because you know what it's like you're
coaching other business owners and you know that they become the cheap bottle washer,
right?
You're the CEO, CFO, the CTO, see everything.
And so it's been a challenge to try and get this off the ground just by myself.
(10:01):
While I've got a board of directors who are my family members and they have different
skill sets, it's still at the end of the day me executing the mission.
And so that's been a bit of a challenge.
I just don't have enough time in the day to do all the things that I need to do.
But I hope that one day I'll be able to find full time staff and pay them and help and get
them to help me out.
(10:22):
So that's going to challenge as well.
Yeah, well, you've already done so much.
I mean, if you look at the website and you're sharing some of the successes and sometimes
we're our own toughest critic, right?
I mean, you got to walk before you run.
And it's interesting to me too to hear that your family is on the board of directors.
I'm sure that there are some opinions there, right?
(10:43):
Oh, yes.
Oh, yes, lots of opinions there.
Yes.
You have to tell me who's the loudest.
I would have to say not necessarily the loudest, but the strongest.
That would be my son.
Oh, good.
I mean, my kids were there when we all had that calling back in Cambodia, but he's a
(11:04):
technical guy and he's like, you know, mom, you don't really need to have a website.
Just get a go fund me and do it that way.
And I didn't want to do it like that.
But I respect his opinion and he doesn't say much, but when he does, I've got to listen.
So he's one of my lean-on.
I love intergenerational learning too.
(11:25):
And I love that you're open to his ideas because, you know, the younger people coming up, they
do have ways and means and different approaches.
And many of them are pretty successful if we take a listen.
So that's really interesting.
So your family's involved.
And you know, from what I've learned, your family places of really high value on education.
(11:50):
And how did your parents and their connection to education influence you on your own path
here?
Sure.
Interestingly enough, my parents didn't graduate from college.
My mother never even finished high school.
She grew up in a generation where women married early and she was quite ill as a child.
(12:11):
So she never finished high school.
But man, she is the smartest woman I know in terms of her just business skills.
And she's really the backbone of our family.
She knew that if she could have had an education and she says this again, she goes, I can't
imagine what I'd be like if I just had formal education.
And I think she would be a force to reckon with.
(12:33):
And I get my drive from her in that sense.
But my dad speaks seven languages and fluently.
So that really helps us a lot during the time of growing up.
But they didn't have formal education.
But even as a kid, I remember being sent to learn different languages, like go to Chinese
school to learn a different language in Cambodia.
(12:56):
But when we got here to the United States, we just didn't have the financial resources.
But luckily, education was free.
And they encouraged us to focus on schooling.
Making friends wasn't so important, but definitely going to school, getting good grades.
They weren't helicopter parents, but they were definitely attentive to what we needed.
(13:17):
And that instilled in me that school was going to be very important.
And my sisters and brothers and I are probably the first in our family to get a formal four-year
education.
And because of that, we feel a heavy responsibility to do something with that education, to give
back, to earn an income, to support our family.
(13:40):
And because of it, my husband and I feel that our children needed an education.
Because if there's anything we can give them that they can take with them, it's going to
be that learning.
And we can leave them a house.
We can leave them a car.
But all of those things can go away.
But no one can take away what you've learned and the education that you've developed up
(14:02):
here.
So we thought that education should be the focus.
And it wasn't always easy for the kids because we grew up here in Northern Virginia where
everybody's a straight A student.
Everything is so competitive.
But they did it.
They went to school.
They're now out.
And they are in their careers at the beginning stages.
But it just fills my heart with joy to see that they completed their college.
(14:25):
We gave them this opportunity.
Now it's the rest is up to them what they do with it.
But it's really important.
Wonderful.
Yeah.
All the tools are there.
And take them out and use them.
And I'm sure when you see that and see the benefits and experiences that your own family
has and then you go back to Cambodia and see crowded conditions and not enough teachers.
(14:50):
And as you said, this thirst and hunger to learn that just spurred you on even more.
Yes, it did.
Yes, for sure.
Yeah.
Wow.
So talk to us, you mentioned going through the classrooms and visiting the school and
seeing the conditions and then just having that calling.
(15:12):
Was there a moment that just defined it for you while you were on site at the school?
Oh my gosh, yes.
Just you asking me that question, Christina, I've got hairs on my goosebumps because I
will always remember that moment.
So we were touring the school and it was an unexpected visit, as I said earlier.
(15:34):
So we have the principal and one of the teachers walking us around the campus.
The campus, when I say campus, it's dirt on the ground.
There is no grass or playground.
The basketball court that we had donated back in 2011 had rust on it.
The classrooms were way overcrowded.
(15:57):
There were 76 students to a teacher in a classroom and because the school was so overcrowded
that they have to take shifts and turns and go into school, like ninth and eleventh graders
go a certain day and then the tenth and twelfth graders would go another day.
There's no hot lunches in the school just because that's not the culture.
(16:19):
Kids go home so that they can help their parents out at home during the school lunchtime and
they eat whatever it's home.
And if you're from a poor family, you can imagine what that's like.
But as we were touring the facility, it wasn't just those stark differences between Cambodian
campus and an American high school campus.
(16:40):
It was on a walk that we had near the back between two buildings.
And I saw this rusted hubcap hanging from a tree and I asked the principal, what is that?
Because it just seemed so out of place in the school.
And he said, well, that is a relic from the pull-pot regime.
And I said, what do you mean?
(17:01):
He goes, well, we left it there because it marks the death path.
And the death path is where prisoners of war during the genocide would walk.
And at the end of that walk, they would be shot in the head.
And the reason is to control the population and to also not have to waste food on these
(17:24):
prisoners of war.
And it turned out that the school was once used as a POW camp and a concentration camp
for four years during the genocide.
And my father-in-law, we learned, was a prisoner at that camp at that time.
(17:44):
When we heard about the death path, we were all, I think, shaken to the core, if you will,
because it stopped us in our track.
And we asked them why they kept it there.
And the principal said, it's because it's a reminder of how far our people have come,
so we don't forget.
(18:06):
And these children, they're happy to be there.
They don't know that this was once a prisoner of war, but to the elders, they do know.
And our call to action at that point was like, oh, my gosh, how can we heal from such a tragedy?
And how did these people do it and have a school that students are now thriving in regardless
(18:27):
of their circumstances?
But that bell is on my website.
And it's also in one of our family photo books, because that, to us, was the calling card that
made us do what we're doing today.
I just couldn't sleep for weeks after coming back from Cambodia when I had heard that story.
(18:47):
Yeah, that's so powerful, so powerful.
I mean, wow.
What they've taken and just put something that, yeah, it just gives life and meaning.
And as you said, I mean, education, no one can take that away from you regardless.
So it's just, wow, what a wonderful and powerful story.
(19:11):
Thank you for sharing that.
Of course.
It's amazing.
Wow.
So if we move on to thinking about some of the other challenges that this group has, you're
trying to help put more teachers in the classrooms, get those numbers down.
(19:34):
Wow.
I mean, can you imagine a Fairfax County teacher teaching 76 kids at once?
No, that would never happen, right?
No, no.
And what is the, and I'm just also thinking about the student experience from what you
just shared.
They're going basically half day and every other day almost.
So not a lot of time even to soak up what's available to learn.
(20:01):
Right, right.
Wow.
So you have this rich background in HR and business development.
How has some of what you've learned professionally come into play here in this next chapter?
Well, sure.
I, you know, who would have thought this, my husband says it all the time now and goes,
(20:26):
who would have thought that you would be doing something like this?
But it seems to me like it's such a natural progression for personally because in business
development, you are crafting a message, you are listening to your prospect for their needs,
and then you're putting together a proposal to solve those pains, right?
(20:49):
And every company and nonprofit, any organization have a real strong need for HR.
And I look at every business through the lens of equity, transparency, and speaking to understand
them.
And so I feel like starting this nonprofit has been a little bit smooth in many ways
(21:14):
because I'm asking the questions to understand.
I'm listening to the concerns of the recipients of our donors and listening to the goals of
our stakeholders who are donors and what they want out of this.
My job is to foster a supportive environment around the foundation's community, whether
(21:36):
that is me within my family or us connecting with Boots on the Ground in Cambodia with
the people who can deliver these things or getting in touch, having a conversation with
you, right?
So all of these communicating and communication, yeah, all of these communications is a big
(21:57):
part of human resources and business development.
So in that sense, I'm glad that I have that experience to bring with me to the foundation.
And as we add staff, I know what kind of an organization I want to run.
I want one where people are valued for their experience.
(22:18):
They are going to be promoted for their accomplishments.
And so ideally in my head, I know what this can look like in five to 10 years.
But right now, the only people I'm managing is me.
And so it's been a fun journey.
Right, right.
Well, in the long run, as you know, if you hire right, that's more than half the battle,
right?
(22:39):
That's right.
Yeah.
Yeah, that's amazing.
So good that you have that.
And listening is such an important skill.
And it's underrated, under talked about.
You have a lot of charismatic leaders who do a lot of talking.
But if you do an equal amount of listening, you're also better off in a lot of ways.
(23:02):
You said it.
Yes, for sure.
Yes.
What did they say?
You know, God gave you two years in one mouth.
One mouth.
That's right.
Yeah.
Use it accordingly.
Exactly.
My father used to tell me that quite a lot growing up.
So you've been back since you started the foundation.
(23:24):
What kind of successes are you seeing and what work still has to be done?
Oh, gosh, there's a lot of work that still has to be done.
The foundation is only two months old.
And I am already seeing the connection that donors have with the recipients.
And right now, my donors are my families and my friends.
(23:46):
And they know that we need money to repaint the buildings, that we need money to buy new
assets.
We need money to get the school supplies that the teachers have to pay for out of pocket,
which in some ways is similar here to the United States, isn't it?
Our teachers have to spend their own money.
And that's a shame.
But those dollars that my family and friends are donating are going directly to buy those
(24:14):
because it's just me as the overhead.
But where I'm really, truly seeing the connection is, as I'm telling the story and why I'm doing
this, I see the healing power of conversation with those adults who suffered the trauma
of the genocide and growing up in that generation.
The conversation that we're having validates that they're not alone in the trauma and that
(24:34):
it's a very personal journey.
And like you said earlier, Christine, when we opened up, some people take that pain
and push it down.
And other people have to find a way to use that pain to empower them to do something
else.
And so I have been so blessed to have some great conversations with folks who either
(24:57):
they were military because they serve at the time of the war and they are happy to meet
somebody who survived it.
But it's been a very personal journey for me when I have these conversations with friends
and family, and it's a deeper connection of that relationship.
It's not meant to solicit sympathy, but rather to empower us all to know that we survive
(25:20):
and that we must do what we can, when we can, to help these children have the opportunities
that we have.
And so I am really beginning to heal myself because I didn't realize there was trauma
that I grew up with.
I thought it was normal to grow up the way that I grew up, where parents were super busy
(25:41):
working, didn't have much time for the emotional support, focusing on education.
But we grew up without the outward affection of love from our parents because it's just
not the way that they are.
And so my brothers and sisters and I got that from each other.
And we grew up as parents giving our kids that because it's what we want.
(26:05):
I know it's a little bit off topic, but this foundation has really allowed me to, like
I said, deepen my relationships that already exist.
And some relationships I've had to cut because it just wasn't working.
So it's been a terrific journey, self-reflection, I'll say.
(26:26):
That's amazing.
Yeah.
Well, and likely a greater appreciation for even your parents' perspective, right?
I mean, if you're getting your children and yourself on a plane to survive, there might
not be a lot of time for thinking about the next step or, you know, it's just like you're,
(26:48):
that's just a whole different, what's the word?
You're just on a whole different speed.
It's survival.
It's not survival mode.
Yeah.
Right.
They grew up, they raised us on survival mode.
And that's exhausting after a while.
But I am so close to my parents today.
They live like two doors down for me, and starting this foundation and getting out of
(27:11):
that rat race of the corporate world has given me a new sense of, I need to give back to
them too, because they gave us an opportunity to grow up in an amazing country and to see
what we've been able to accomplish.
And I want to spend time giving them back my time, taking them places, to doctors, to
(27:32):
vacations, like my sisters and I are taking my dad on a diet and daughter trip to Alaska.
So, you know, we can spend time with him.
I love it.
But it's been an amazing journey for me.
And they are so many surprises around every corner.
Yeah.
I hope a lot of our listeners are taking this moment in because when we get to midlife and
(27:52):
we have raised our own kids and have an appreciation for a new appreciation, like a 360 degree
view of our parents, it's really wonderful to have that gratitude and share with your
parents how you feel about them.
And you're doing it in so many ways, not only spending time, but you're showing them the
(28:14):
legacy that they have created.
And this legacy is giving back to the country where they are from helping others and, you
know, telling them how you feel about them is just amazing.
I just encourage all of our viewers to just take that in and think about your own situation
(28:34):
and really have you shown your parents that opportunity if they're still here to hear
it, right?
That's awesome, Mona.
Thank you.
Yeah.
So, as you build this foundation and you are weaving the foundation into the fabric of
(29:00):
Cambodia and the education system there, how are you working with the community on the
ground?
Are you learning things there?
And what would you share with our listeners on that aspect?
Sure.
I think that community collaboration will play a vital role, you know, in the success
of our mission.
(29:21):
And this is where it's important to have boots on the ground to execute and deliver the mission
in the Khmer communities.
Some of the challenges, though, has been, as I mentioned earlier, the language barrier,
which we can overcome with translator.
But it's also breaking a cycle of how education is viewed in Cambodia.
(29:42):
For example, before the Pol Pot regime took over, there were 20,000 teachers in Cambodia.
After Pol Pot, there were only 5,000 teachers left because they killed the educated class.
They did not want education to empower the people to uprise against them.
And so, trying to insert myself into the Ministry of Education isn't going to work because Cambodia
(30:11):
has their own structure, just like we do here in the United States.
There's funding for it.
And I don't want to say that I don't want to work with the government.
I'd rather work directly with the community, the people who need it the most.
And I need more help in that area as well to find the next school or the next three schools
that we're going to help.
(30:33):
And the way that I have been doing this is by working directly with one of the teachers
at the high school that I met there in Siam Ria.
His name is Borom.
And Borom and I have been communicating through Instagram, through Facebook, through phone
calls and emails, and just him also putting his feelers out to see what other schools
(30:54):
in the area that might need help as well, even though our focus right now is to tackle
this one particular school.
But I don't know what it's going to look like in five years.
I would think that we need to have someone full time or a couple of part time people
in Cambodia working within the community to change the mindset.
(31:14):
Because today to this day, even though the enrollment of students have gone up way up,
the system is not caught up with the training of the teachers.
Teachers don't get paid well there.
They earn about $150 to $200 a month.
That's their salary.
They can't feed a family off of that.
(31:35):
And so, sometimes teachers have to resort to asking students for money in order to buy
the school supplies.
And these students who live in these farming communities in the rural areas, they don't
have any disposable cash.
Even though education is free there, you still have to pay for your supplies, your commute
(31:57):
into the school because there's no buses.
Either you walk or you ride a moped.
And most family only own one moped.
So if the father is taking that to work, how's the kid getting to school?
And so it's going to be very grassroots.
Cambodia is not a very big country, but it is 17.5 million people living there.
(32:18):
Most of them in the city.
So the challenge for us will be to go into the very rural Cambodia and figure out who
are the people in the town that the community listens to and getting them to tell us what
do they think they need.
That's where the work will be for us to get through to the community is through the elders
(32:39):
and changing the mindset of send the kids to school.
Don't make them go work on the farm or the factories or go sell souvenir or trinkets.
Let's get them to school.
Let's get them completed with high school so that they can see there's opportunity beyond
just the primary and secondary schools.
Right.
(33:00):
Yeah.
Some of that just sounds like it's going to be one conversation at a time.
Yes.
Yes, it has to be.
I don't know that you can get a bunch of people together because each province had their own
culture.
And so you've got to ingrain yourself into that and find out who are the influencers
and work your way through it that way.
(33:20):
And that's where those business skills come in handy.
Right.
Right.
Love it.
So as we wind down, we want to share your website, obviously, and help people understand
how they could get more information.
So I'm going to spell the website.
(33:41):
It's K-O-U-N-K-H-M-E-R dot org.
That's right.
And I'm sure people can subscribe and donate today.
And I know this story has certainly moved me.
I'm sure it's moved many of the listeners as well.
(34:01):
How else could our listeners provide support to your foundation, Mona?
Gosh, thank you for asking that.
As I mentioned earlier, one of the things that I'm struggling with is finding bigger
donors.
And that's going to come from foundation monies of larger organizations.
And I am not a grant writer.
(34:23):
I need help if there's any of your listeners out there that have expertise in writing grants.
If they could help me out, donate a couple hours or educate me how to do that, because
this is going to be a skill set that's very new to me.
I've got to embrace it if I'm going to grow this.
So any grant writers out there who knows the education feel and works with foreign NGOs,
(34:49):
please hit me up on Instagram, on LinkedIn, and on Facebook.
And of course, leave me a message if you'd like.
Oh, that's a great invitation for anyone who wants to, I guess, fill your own cup with
some service and some purpose, right?
(35:10):
And it doesn't take much, as you mentioned.
It could be a couple of hours.
Yeah.
So I think with that, we will wrap up.
I'm so happy that you shared your story today.
I'm looking forward to sending this podcast far and wide so that more people hear the
(35:32):
story and can assist.
Mona, you are certainly just, when I meet people like you and I hear your story and
I see just the immediate action that you've taken.
Seriously, you're an angel on Earth and I'm wishing you so much success, so much in what
(35:52):
you're doing, and thank you again for being such a wonderful guest.
Thank you.
I really appreciate the platform.
This has been amazing and you're right.
The time did fly by.
Appreciate it.
All right.
So with that, we will sign off until next time.
Thank you for listening.
Our hope is to spark a little joy, inspire, and educate our listeners in ways to live
(36:15):
an even more meaningful life.
If you have reactions to share from what you've heard, please visit our website, refinement.life,
to leave a voice message.
You may even be featured in a future episode.
To keep in touch, subscribe to our podcast, Re-Firement Life, using the podcast player
of your choice.
Always remember, you are never too old to set a new goal or to dream a new dream.
(36:40):
Thanks again for joining us on this episode.
Until next time.
Popular Podcasts
Amy Robach & T.J. Holmes present: Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial
Introducing… Aubrey O’Day Diddy’s former protege, television personality, platinum selling music artist, Danity Kane alum Aubrey O’Day joins veteran journalists Amy Robach and TJ Holmes to provide a unique perspective on the trial that has captivated the attention of the nation. Join them throughout the trial as they discuss, debate, and dissect every detail, every aspect of the proceedings. Aubrey will offer her opinions and expertise, as only she is qualified to do given her first-hand knowledge. From her days on Making the Band, as she emerged as the breakout star, the truth of the situation would be the opposite of the glitz and glamour. Listen throughout every minute of the trial, for this exclusive coverage. Amy Robach and TJ Holmes present Aubrey O’Day, Covering the Diddy Trial, an iHeartRadio podcast.
Betrayal: Season 4
Karoline Borega married a man of honor – a respected Colorado Springs Police officer. She knew there would be sacrifices to accommodate her husband’s career. But she had no idea that he was using his badge to fool everyone. This season, we expose a man who swore two sacred oaths—one to his badge, one to his bride—and broke them both. We follow Karoline as she questions everything she thought she knew about her partner of over 20 years. And make sure to check out Seasons 1-3 of Betrayal, along with Betrayal Weekly Season 1.
Crime Junkie
Does hearing about a true crime case always leave you scouring the internet for the truth behind the story? Dive into your next mystery with Crime Junkie. Every Monday, join your host Ashley Flowers as she unravels all the details of infamous and underreported true crime cases with her best friend Brit Prawat. From cold cases to missing persons and heroes in our community who seek justice, Crime Junkie is your destination for theories and stories you won’t hear anywhere else. Whether you're a seasoned true crime enthusiast or new to the genre, you'll find yourself on the edge of your seat awaiting a new episode every Monday. If you can never get enough true crime... Congratulations, you’ve found your people. Follow to join a community of Crime Junkies! Crime Junkie is presented by audiochuck Media Company.