July 15, 2024 • 32 mins
UC Berkeley professor of psychology Dacher Keltner, Ph.D. presents a radical investigation and deeply personal inquiry into the 8 Sources of Awe and how awe transforms our brains and bodies, Muge and I discuss and reflect on Prof. Keltner findings. Tune in to learn how cultivating awe in our everyday life leads us to appreciate what is most humane in our human nature.
Things you can do:
- Tune in to learn about the 8 sources of awe and how you can proactively cultivate more awe in your life.
- Read Keltner's books AWE: The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your Life available on Amazon.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Welcome to ReFirement Life, the podcast for anyone navigating life transitions or planning
(00:06):
to make life transitions to ensure your next years are your best years.
Listen in for insightful, generous, and sometimes humorous conversation.
It's time to get fired up with Christine Zamuda and Muge Wood, your hosts for this
latest episode of ReFirement Life.
(00:30):
Today we are going to talk about the eight sources of awe and what it does for us.
But first, hello Muge. How are you today? Hello, dear Christine. I am doing wonderful.
I am actually very thrilled about this episode because I think it can do a world of good for us.
(00:53):
And also what's on my mind right now is Wimbledon, which is going to start next week.
I can't wait to dedicate myself to tennis for 14 days that is watching from my couch.
So, doing well. Yeah, and some of those shots that you experience through watching
really do provide a sense of wonder and awe. Like, how did they get to that ball?
(01:17):
It does. And their legs are still intact after doing that split. So, yes, it does.
It's very inspirational. Yeah, there was another little finding that you uncovered last week.
So, before we get deeply into our topic, we'd like to do a little reflection.
(01:39):
And you discovered a history making and history breaking 71-year-old beauty pageant contestant,
only in Texas. Only in Texas. So, I am not very big on beauty pageants. I think it's fine for
(01:59):
people who want to compete, who find attractive. So, it's not really my thing. But I was reading
this article and it said, you know, with the Miss USA, the age limit is 28. So, you have to be at
least 18 and then you age out of it at 28, which is pretty early. So, recently age limits have been
(02:22):
removed. And in Texas, actually in Houston, a woman with the name Marisa Tejo at the age of 71
competed for Miss Texas USA. And I found that to be most inspirational, groundbreaking,
challenging our notion of limits. She looks fantastic to begin with. But also, I think why
(02:48):
she went for it in her own words. She says in doing so, she hoped to inspire women to strive to be
their best physical, mental selves and the notion that there's beauty at any age. So, just love that
notion. And I think it is very inspirational. Beauty certainly comes in all kinds of ways. But I
(03:12):
think once we remove or challenge the limits we place on ourselves, especially imposed by others,
we can become even more limitless. So, love her spirit, your courage to go for this.
That's amazing. And quite shocking that 28 would be the age limit for a talented, beautiful woman.
(03:32):
The best. That's right. Come on.
That's right. I didn't even know this was the limit. So, I mean, that's like shorter than the life of
a butterfly. Like, you are expired. The message it sends, I think, is pretty bad. So, I'm glad the
limit is removed. However, I would probably guess, one day removed that limit, they didn't expect
(03:58):
seven to one year old to make an entry. So, good on her.
Yeah. And I'll be interested to see what happens next year. Right? I mean, because she's gotten a
fair amount of press, which might have inspired, hopefully inspired others to say, hey, I can do
this too. Yeah. That's right. That's right. That's the whole point of going first and trailblazing
(04:22):
it for others. And of all things, this was in Houston. I loved it. Yeah. That's fantastic.
And I did just, I was curious too, are there any pageants for men? And I was wondering,
we're always an equal opportunity kind of podcast and try and do some research that'll help lots of
(04:43):
people who might be listening. And, you know, I guess the big male pageant is Mr. Universe,
the last winner that I remember, Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I think he was, I wonder how old he was,
actually. I bet he was probably older than 28. At that time? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. We need to
(05:09):
look it up. I want to say he could have been in his 20s, but that was his debut to the world stage,
right? Right. From Austria and the physical prowess, strength, bodybuilding, weightlifting,
notion. I think what's interesting about that, not only that led to his Hollywood stardom and
(05:29):
everything else that followed, I think it may have inspired also a way of fitness for people to
get attracted to, you know, for my health purposes, I think it's fantastic. If all you do is for your
looks, I guess that's okay too. But that was that was an inflection point, I think, not only for
(05:51):
Arnold Schwarzenegger, but also everything else that follows for the culture at the time. That's
still carries on to today, right? Yeah. I remember as a kid in school, they had the
Presidential Fitness Award that came after that. And you had to do a few things. You had to run a
mile. You had to do flex arm hang. You had to do so many push-ups, so many sit-ups, and like,
(06:16):
check all the boxes that were at least, you know, proficient in these categories before you'd get
your award. And I think the mile killed everybody. Yeah. I think I may be open to that as long as
there are no chin-ups. Like, that's just not going to happen for me unless there's an assisted chin-up
of sorts. That's just never going to happen. But the rest of it, it's amazing to aspire to.
(06:44):
And I think what people can accomplish when the limits are removed is astounding. I will also
mention an amazing woman I work with at my work. And so she's a bundle of energy, mother of two,
lives in Chicago. And she does, she competes in swimming competitions. And she does open air swim.
(07:12):
She's swim between San Kitts and Nevis Islands in the Caribbean. Talk about courage.
Talk about courage. And she's going to swim in Chicago River when they opened it up for swimming
in pole. And she sent us a video of US nationals for her bracket that she participated in. And this
(07:34):
two-minute, 20-second video, we just got tired looking at her, just watching how she's swimming.
And she came in second place. So it's just remarkable, I think, what's possible. The human
spirit, body, energy, when we challenge those limitations that may be placed upon us by norms
(07:56):
that could quite be updated. So keep challenging. Keep challenging. Keep pushing. Keep inspiring.
Definitely. Definitely. Well, let's move into our topic because I think this will give us a
lot to think about. I came across this UC Berkeley professor. His name is Dasher Keltner, PhD.
And he has been studying basically how awe transforms our body, our mind, and how cultivating
(08:27):
on everyday life actually can have amazing effects on you physically, mentally, emotionally.
So he wrote a great book called How Awe Awakens—oh wait, sorry, that's not the book.
He wrote a great book called The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your
(08:52):
Life. And in the process of this book, he collected lots and lots of stories from all around the
world. There's 26 stories that kind of rose to the top. And he was able to categorize them
into what now is known as the Eight Sources of Awe. And let's talk a little bit about what they are.
(09:14):
The first one that was common across all cultures and really stood out was when you witness what
is defined as moral beauty. And that is an extreme act of kindness, an extreme act of selflessness,
and that can move you to tears. It can actually give you goosebumps, a physical reaction when you
(09:41):
see it, and is one of the most powerful moments of awe. We're going to just go through them quickly
and then we'll kind of circle back. The others are nature. Of course, we've heard a lot about the
power of nature, maybe walking through the Redwood Forest and just seeing the vast size of those
(10:06):
trees in relation to yourself, the Grand Canyon, collective movement when you are in dance. And
Muge, I know you love to dance. So collective unison and moving your body with others, music,
art, spirituality, the idea of big ideas that are just so mind-blowing. And then lastly,
(10:35):
experiencing life and also experiencing or witnessing death is the Eight Sources of Awe.
So properly defined, Keltner says, awe is when we experience vast and mysterious things.
So Muge, reactions, that was a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. And I've been thinking and
(10:58):
reflecting as you are describing, Christine, and I look at it as what invokes a sense of wonder
in us and the kind of calming, inspiring effect that it has. So a couple things there. For me,
it is simple things that are around us in the nature, but it takes a moment to pause, look,
(11:23):
and appreciate. So as an example, I just love the constant change of magnolias in our backyard.
So magnolias are a great tree for Texas. They thrive, beautiful blooms. And every single day,
there's a change. It's never the same. Some blooms come about, some pass, the leaves, and you pause
(11:45):
and take a look at that. It's just incredible. And the other thing is, I don't think also
you have to be present to witness it in person necessarily. You can also read about it. You
can hear about it, and it can still inspire that sense of wonder. And what comes to mind for me
(12:06):
as you're describing as an example is what Captain Sully achieved by landing that plane on Hudson
River when there was a challenge. It makes you really wonder and appreciate the moral beauty of it
and how people came together in that moment. And finally, I think what I am also thinking about is
(12:28):
children seem to more effortlessly experience awe and sense of wonder, like simple things,
captivate their attention. It could be the bug walking or the end point I was about to make is
we see this in practice so effortlessly in children. How they experience awe, wonder
(12:52):
in small things. They are captivated by it. They even may be in a flow state as they experience
these things. And we may have to try a bit harder as we get older and we get distracted with a whole
lot of other things, including many responsibilities. But even I think witnessing a child experience wonder
(13:18):
helps us appreciate more through the eyes of others. Absolutely. And actually, Kelpner found
that in his research. He said that we are more apt to experience wonder and a lot of it from the
ages of like zero to 17. Then we have a gap till we get to our fifties that there's less because
(13:42):
it's just your life is busy, right? And he said that he even found that in studying babies that
the wonder was so apparent. And one example he used was, you know, you go through a tunnel
with the baby in the car seat, and they all of a sudden their faces are like, what's going on,
(14:03):
what's going on? Then they come out of the tunnel and they have this huge expression on their face,
like just wonder and awe. So, yeah, so I think following young people around and experiencing
that through their eyes and taking it in yourself is a great way to get more awe in your life.
(14:25):
So for me, when I started thinking about this, I remember just, this is the aspect of experiencing
life, you know, when my first daughter was born, just looking at her face in pure amazement and
wonder. And I, you know, for a full day, I just was just blown away, wouldn't let, kind of wouldn't
(14:51):
let nurses take her. I was just like, so awestruck at this beautiful little thing. Yeah, so I think
that's a wonderful, real, personal moment for me. And I think a lot of moms have that, but I'll just
never forget it. Yeah, that's the other thing. I think we are deeply moved by it. And it becomes
(15:17):
itched in our brain, which is wonderful, because when we remember those moments, we are moved again
by them. So it is not a one-time thing, because they are so deeply personal, meaningful. And it's
a wonderful thing to experience, yes, for sure. I think probably many mothers could attest to that.
(15:41):
It all speaks to manifestation of nature in a way, right? The cycle of life and how so many beautiful
things happen also outside of our control. But also they mean so much to us individually and
(16:04):
collectively. It's a beautiful thing. I was reading this statement that also made me think in this
context, and it's gave me a chuckle too. It said, you know, the only worst thing than getting old
is getting bored. And I think I'll amend that and say also getting cynical. Because if we get into
(16:26):
the state, we say, look, I've seen it all. I've done it all. Nothing surprises me anymore. And I
think when we find ourselves in that state, we really need to break through it, because that's
when is our opening to experience wonders of life in any ways that are very readily available to us.
(16:50):
That's the other thing I love about it, right? Nothing we are talking about is about money.
It's not even about time. It's taking a pause, looking around and being moved by what is happening
around us, whether that is the squirrel moving, the sun rising, sun setting, and someone extending
an act of kindness to us or that we hear about. It is a wonderful thing. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
(17:18):
The other example that comes to mind, and this is a bit of a moral beauty example, is living in the
DC area and traveling in and out of the airports. Sometimes you're lucky enough to see what's called
an honor flight. Do you know what these are? No, I don't know what they are. Okay, the honor flight.
(17:39):
It's so amazing. The Department of Veterans Affairs will provide any veteran in the US,
maybe abroad, but I know at least in the US, the opportunity to come and visit DC and see the
memorials. They pay for the flights, they pay for accommodations, there's programs that happen on the
(18:06):
regular that bring in all of these World War II veterans. Many of them are wheeled off in wheelchairs.
They're assisted by someone that the VA assigns to them. When they come off, generally they're in
a hat or uniform, something that acknowledges them. It's typically 20, 25, or 30 coming off.
(18:31):
Everyone claps in the whole airport. I'll start to cry just thinking about it.
These older men and women who gave so much, and it's just wonderful to see.
Wonderful to see. It is wonderful to see. I think, Christine, thank you for sharing that.
(18:53):
That combines multiple elements of the eight that you mentioned. It is moral beauty, it is music,
it is movement, it is unity in sharing and appreciating that experience. That also made me think why I
am so moved by a military march, band, parade type of thing, including college football games
(19:20):
that are known for their pageantry in these big schools. When there is that
band march, the spirit of students, parents, everyone coming together, you find yourself
in this collective of appreciation and you are really moved by it. That may even make you cry
(19:45):
at times. That's a great point. I think putting ourselves deliberately into situations to experience
that is pretty amazing. You just gave a great example. I think we have another immediate
opportunity for our listeners in the United States. We have got Port of July coming up next week.
(20:11):
I think that is another opportunity to experience all with some amazing celebration appreciation,
including some fireworks. That always, for me, all inspiring too.
Yeah. I love when music is put to the fireworks too. It just brings it way up.
Yes. That's right. I think what we are saying is these eight elements that you mentioned,
(20:34):
they are each powerful, but when they are coming together in a number of combinations,
it becomes even more memorable and moving. Yes, absolutely.
So there are a couple other things to think about and we wanted to share, well, what happens to
your body? What do you experience? So awe actually reduces daily stressors of life. What the research
(21:02):
found is that it elevates the activation of the vagus nerve and reduces inflammation.
There is a famous quote that Emerson said that there is nothing that nature or awe can't repair.
They are showing that actually this reduced inflammation does all the great things for
your body. Reduces the risk of cancer, stress, obviously. I know these words have come out of
(21:30):
my mouth. When my daughter was born, I was like, I have done everything I can do in this world.
Like this is an amazing moment. They say, your self or your, it's basically like
(21:56):
the dissolving of self happens when you see awe. That's just bigger than you as a person.
So what they have done in the labs actually studying people is when they showed people
experiencing awe and they had scanners on the brain and they measured the different activity
(22:16):
from the different areas of the brain and said basically the default mode network part of the
brain, which is your prefrontal cortex, also your posterior cortex, they actually relax.
So you're not thinking about yourself, your ego. And if you can think about those eight sources of
(22:38):
awe and times that you've witnessed or seen something, you're really not thinking about
yourself. You're thinking about, wow, this is vast. This is big. This is gigantic. I can't
believe I'm experiencing this and lost in the moment.
Amazing. Actually, the neuroscience of it and why it works wonders for the spirit, mind,
(23:00):
physically and emotionally. And it stays with you. I think an example also of that is the
iconic picture of our planet from space, which was taken at one of the early space flights.
And you look at that sort of blue marble spinning in the vastness of space. And I think it may also,
(23:21):
at times, cultivate a sense of appreciation and gratitude as well. Because you look at it and
you say, oh, that's our planet. That's what we are on. You look at it from the distance, how
beautiful and also how fragile it is. So we had better appreciation for it. And I think it's
an amazing activation for positive energy and calming in the moment. But I think it also brings
(23:47):
a level of perspective potentially that can guide our actions following.
Yeah. And that's it. That's a great example of how we can help to create a better world.
And I think that's a great example of how we can help to create a better world.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's an important thought. And the other thing to think about and what they
(24:12):
found in this research, too, which I thought was interesting is some people are naturally
pulled to awe. And some people really have to work to find it. That's probably not a surprise
because there are so many different personalities and your DNA and your experiences have led you to
in life. But they said that, hey, you could ask someone every day for 14 days,
(24:40):
what would it be found in terms of awe? And they're like, nothing. Don't get it. And then you could
find someone else who sees awe every single day and appreciates life. Yeah, that's right. I think
that can be the case in a lot of places. I think we talked about in one of our prior episodes on
power of smiling. And that can come naturally to some people. They're smiling all the time, no matter
(25:05):
what happens. And for some others, not so much. And the smile therapy and making yourself smile
even when you don't feel like it, but still it creates a positive impact. So I think that's a
good point. There are many things that may or may not come to us naturally, but making an effort to
give it a go and be open-minded about it can do wonders because we need to reduce inflammation
(25:34):
and improve longevity. And what better way to do it than experiencing wonder for all that's going
on around us, yes. Yeah. And you can curate it. So this is one of the recommendations that Keltner
says is even scheduling, finding 10 minutes of awe a week is beneficial. Some of the things that he
(25:57):
recommended was playing an album that's really meaningful to you that really cuts to your core.
You feel that physical and emotional connection to can create an everyday moment of awe.
Taking an awe walk, they have now guided meditation if you need it to find beauty in nature. Again,
(26:20):
10 minutes is all you need for it to actually make an impact. Lie on a blanket, watch the clouds.
At nighttime, watch the stars. Giving yourself that downtime and opportunity to just understand and
appreciate the mystery that the world holds for us. Those are all good examples.
(26:46):
Yeah, very true. And I think we give new levels of appreciation and expression to some of these
practices that may naturally be experienced by many others for millennial, but like the notion of
forest bathing. Like, okay, what is forest bathing? What is that even? But I think it connects out
(27:08):
with deliberately experiencing nature when you are in a forest environment. Like you said, maybe it's
the red woods, maybe it's something else. It can't struck that sense of wonder. So beautiful ways to
experience it. I think if nothing else, just pause and look out the window. And there is bound to
(27:30):
be something out there to help us appreciate what's going on. And the beauty of this is, I think also
we don't have to problem solve it. We don't have to understand it to its fullest extent. And the
mystery of it is also what makes it compelling and energizing and inspiring. You know, just looking up
(27:56):
at the sky at night. And we don't understand all of what's going on, the mysteries of the universe,
but that's what makes it special in a way. Yes, agree, agree. And that's kind of freeing. You don't
have to really do too much to just appreciate and be one with the big world that is ours.
(28:16):
Yes, that's exactly right. So as we wind down, what are our specific parting thoughts on
the suggestions? Christine, you called out some really good ones. Any other thoughts in closing?
Yeah, I think that, you know, going back to the eight sources of moral beauty, nature, collective
(28:39):
movement, music, art, spirituality, big ideas, life and death. So think about which ones may become
more naturally to you. And I would say, you know, pick one and try in for the next week,
schedule 10 minutes, just bring more awe into your life. We know it's good for our bodies,
(28:59):
good for our minds. And for those who want to go deeper, I would say read the book,
the new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life. There's some great stories
in there. Another one maybe just to leave on a very, I think, emotionally warming note. One of
(29:20):
the stories was a mother who had a daughter and she was born with a club foot and they
experienced her performing a ballet recital flawlessly after much training, after much determination,
and just the moral beauty of the others just rallying around this girl and just seeing her
(29:47):
shine. I mean, those are the stories that like give you fuel, right? For to do anything to
help others be their best self. So that's just one and there's 25 other stories that folks might be
interested in digging into. That's phenomenal. Thank you for mentioning that, Christine. I think in a
(30:09):
world where we are bombarded by negative news, but that get amplification,
social media, digital platforms all serve a purpose, but there's a lot of it and it can be
stressful. So stepping outside of that to achieve this level of appreciation, even in a fleeting
manner, can do wonders, pun intended. And that's an awesome way to think about it and reflect on it.
(30:38):
And I think, one, the practice of experiencing it ourselves and second level in my mind is
how can we help others experience it as well? So that is, that's I think the challenge I'm going to
issue ourselves. Yeah, I think you'd make a great ambassador. I can't wait to see what else people
(31:01):
experience for the rest of their day now that you have this challenge. Yes, that's exactly right.
I love the title. I think I may update my LinkedIn profile to include that. That is going to be
a very unique one for sure, but an important one for life. So you gave me a big idea. Thank you.
Of course. All right. So with that, I believe we will sign off until next time. Until next time.
(31:37):
Thank you for listening. Our hope is to spark a little joy,
inspire and educate our listeners in ways to live an even more meaningful life.
If you have reactions to share from what you've heard, please visit our website,
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(32:03):
Always remember, you are never too old to set a new goal or to dream a new dream. Thanks again
for joining us on this episode. Until next time.
Welcome to ReFirement Life, the podcast for anyone navigating life transitions or planning
(00:06):
to make life transitions to ensure your next years are your best years.
Listen in for insightful, generous, and sometimes humorous conversation.
It's time to get fired up with Christine Zamuda and Muge Wood, your hosts for this
latest episode of ReFirement Life.
(00:30):
Today we are going to talk about the eight sources of awe and what it does for us.
But first, hello Muge. How are you today? Hello, dear Christine. I am doing wonderful.
I am actually very thrilled about this episode because I think it can do a world of good for us.
(00:53):
And also what's on my mind right now is Wimbledon, which is going to start next week.
I can't wait to dedicate myself to tennis for 14 days that is watching from my couch.
So, doing well. Yeah, and some of those shots that you experience through watching
really do provide a sense of wonder and awe. Like, how did they get to that ball?
(01:17):
It does. And their legs are still intact after doing that split. So, yes, it does.
It's very inspirational. Yeah, there was another little finding that you uncovered last week.
So, before we get deeply into our topic, we'd like to do a little reflection.
(01:39):
And you discovered a history making and history breaking 71-year-old beauty pageant contestant,
only in Texas. Only in Texas. So, I am not very big on beauty pageants. I think it's fine for
(01:59):
people who want to compete, who find attractive. So, it's not really my thing. But I was reading
this article and it said, you know, with the Miss USA, the age limit is 28. So, you have to be at
least 18 and then you age out of it at 28, which is pretty early. So, recently age limits have been
(02:22):
removed. And in Texas, actually in Houston, a woman with the name Marisa Tejo at the age of 71
competed for Miss Texas USA. And I found that to be most inspirational, groundbreaking,
challenging our notion of limits. She looks fantastic to begin with. But also, I think why
(02:48):
she went for it in her own words. She says in doing so, she hoped to inspire women to strive to be
their best physical, mental selves and the notion that there's beauty at any age. So, just love that
notion. And I think it is very inspirational. Beauty certainly comes in all kinds of ways. But I
(03:12):
think once we remove or challenge the limits we place on ourselves, especially imposed by others,
we can become even more limitless. So, love her spirit, your courage to go for this.
That's amazing. And quite shocking that 28 would be the age limit for a talented, beautiful woman.
(03:32):
The best. That's right. Come on.
That's right. I didn't even know this was the limit. So, I mean, that's like shorter than the life of
a butterfly. Like, you are expired. The message it sends, I think, is pretty bad. So, I'm glad the
limit is removed. However, I would probably guess, one day removed that limit, they didn't expect
(03:58):
seven to one year old to make an entry. So, good on her.
Yeah. And I'll be interested to see what happens next year. Right? I mean, because she's gotten a
fair amount of press, which might have inspired, hopefully inspired others to say, hey, I can do
this too. Yeah. That's right. That's right. That's the whole point of going first and trailblazing
(04:22):
it for others. And of all things, this was in Houston. I loved it. Yeah. That's fantastic.
And I did just, I was curious too, are there any pageants for men? And I was wondering,
we're always an equal opportunity kind of podcast and try and do some research that'll help lots of
(04:43):
people who might be listening. And, you know, I guess the big male pageant is Mr. Universe,
the last winner that I remember, Arnold Schwarzenegger. And I think he was, I wonder how old he was,
actually. I bet he was probably older than 28. At that time? Yeah. Yeah. I don't know. We need to
(05:09):
look it up. I want to say he could have been in his 20s, but that was his debut to the world stage,
right? Right. From Austria and the physical prowess, strength, bodybuilding, weightlifting,
notion. I think what's interesting about that, not only that led to his Hollywood stardom and
(05:29):
everything else that followed, I think it may have inspired also a way of fitness for people to
get attracted to, you know, for my health purposes, I think it's fantastic. If all you do is for your
looks, I guess that's okay too. But that was that was an inflection point, I think, not only for
(05:51):
Arnold Schwarzenegger, but also everything else that follows for the culture at the time. That's
still carries on to today, right? Yeah. I remember as a kid in school, they had the
Presidential Fitness Award that came after that. And you had to do a few things. You had to run a
mile. You had to do flex arm hang. You had to do so many push-ups, so many sit-ups, and like,
(06:16):
check all the boxes that were at least, you know, proficient in these categories before you'd get
your award. And I think the mile killed everybody. Yeah. I think I may be open to that as long as
there are no chin-ups. Like, that's just not going to happen for me unless there's an assisted chin-up
of sorts. That's just never going to happen. But the rest of it, it's amazing to aspire to.
(06:44):
And I think what people can accomplish when the limits are removed is astounding. I will also
mention an amazing woman I work with at my work. And so she's a bundle of energy, mother of two,
lives in Chicago. And she does, she competes in swimming competitions. And she does open air swim.
(07:12):
She's swim between San Kitts and Nevis Islands in the Caribbean. Talk about courage.
Talk about courage. And she's going to swim in Chicago River when they opened it up for swimming
in pole. And she sent us a video of US nationals for her bracket that she participated in. And this
(07:34):
two-minute, 20-second video, we just got tired looking at her, just watching how she's swimming.
And she came in second place. So it's just remarkable, I think, what's possible. The human
spirit, body, energy, when we challenge those limitations that may be placed upon us by norms
(07:56):
that could quite be updated. So keep challenging. Keep challenging. Keep pushing. Keep inspiring.
Definitely. Definitely. Well, let's move into our topic because I think this will give us a
lot to think about. I came across this UC Berkeley professor. His name is Dasher Keltner, PhD.
And he has been studying basically how awe transforms our body, our mind, and how cultivating
(08:27):
on everyday life actually can have amazing effects on you physically, mentally, emotionally.
So he wrote a great book called How Awe Awakens—oh wait, sorry, that's not the book.
He wrote a great book called The New Science of Everyday Wonder and How It Can Transform Your
(08:52):
Life. And in the process of this book, he collected lots and lots of stories from all around the
world. There's 26 stories that kind of rose to the top. And he was able to categorize them
into what now is known as the Eight Sources of Awe. And let's talk a little bit about what they are.
(09:14):
The first one that was common across all cultures and really stood out was when you witness what
is defined as moral beauty. And that is an extreme act of kindness, an extreme act of selflessness,
and that can move you to tears. It can actually give you goosebumps, a physical reaction when you
(09:41):
see it, and is one of the most powerful moments of awe. We're going to just go through them quickly
and then we'll kind of circle back. The others are nature. Of course, we've heard a lot about the
power of nature, maybe walking through the Redwood Forest and just seeing the vast size of those
(10:06):
trees in relation to yourself, the Grand Canyon, collective movement when you are in dance. And
Muge, I know you love to dance. So collective unison and moving your body with others, music,
art, spirituality, the idea of big ideas that are just so mind-blowing. And then lastly,
(10:35):
experiencing life and also experiencing or witnessing death is the Eight Sources of Awe.
So properly defined, Keltner says, awe is when we experience vast and mysterious things.
So Muge, reactions, that was a lot. Yeah, that's a lot. And I've been thinking and
(10:58):
reflecting as you are describing, Christine, and I look at it as what invokes a sense of wonder
in us and the kind of calming, inspiring effect that it has. So a couple things there. For me,
it is simple things that are around us in the nature, but it takes a moment to pause, look,
(11:23):
and appreciate. So as an example, I just love the constant change of magnolias in our backyard.
So magnolias are a great tree for Texas. They thrive, beautiful blooms. And every single day,
there's a change. It's never the same. Some blooms come about, some pass, the leaves, and you pause
(11:45):
and take a look at that. It's just incredible. And the other thing is, I don't think also
you have to be present to witness it in person necessarily. You can also read about it. You
can hear about it, and it can still inspire that sense of wonder. And what comes to mind for me
(12:06):
as you're describing as an example is what Captain Sully achieved by landing that plane on Hudson
River when there was a challenge. It makes you really wonder and appreciate the moral beauty of it
and how people came together in that moment. And finally, I think what I am also thinking about is
(12:28):
children seem to more effortlessly experience awe and sense of wonder, like simple things,
captivate their attention. It could be the bug walking or the end point I was about to make is
we see this in practice so effortlessly in children. How they experience awe, wonder
(12:52):
in small things. They are captivated by it. They even may be in a flow state as they experience
these things. And we may have to try a bit harder as we get older and we get distracted with a whole
lot of other things, including many responsibilities. But even I think witnessing a child experience wonder
(13:18):
helps us appreciate more through the eyes of others. Absolutely. And actually, Kelpner found
that in his research. He said that we are more apt to experience wonder and a lot of it from the
ages of like zero to 17. Then we have a gap till we get to our fifties that there's less because
(13:42):
it's just your life is busy, right? And he said that he even found that in studying babies that
the wonder was so apparent. And one example he used was, you know, you go through a tunnel
with the baby in the car seat, and they all of a sudden their faces are like, what's going on,
(14:03):
what's going on? Then they come out of the tunnel and they have this huge expression on their face,
like just wonder and awe. So, yeah, so I think following young people around and experiencing
that through their eyes and taking it in yourself is a great way to get more awe in your life.
(14:25):
So for me, when I started thinking about this, I remember just, this is the aspect of experiencing
life, you know, when my first daughter was born, just looking at her face in pure amazement and
wonder. And I, you know, for a full day, I just was just blown away, wouldn't let, kind of wouldn't
(14:51):
let nurses take her. I was just like, so awestruck at this beautiful little thing. Yeah, so I think
that's a wonderful, real, personal moment for me. And I think a lot of moms have that, but I'll just
never forget it. Yeah, that's the other thing. I think we are deeply moved by it. And it becomes
(15:17):
itched in our brain, which is wonderful, because when we remember those moments, we are moved again
by them. So it is not a one-time thing, because they are so deeply personal, meaningful. And it's
a wonderful thing to experience, yes, for sure. I think probably many mothers could attest to that.
(15:41):
It all speaks to manifestation of nature in a way, right? The cycle of life and how so many beautiful
things happen also outside of our control. But also they mean so much to us individually and
(16:04):
collectively. It's a beautiful thing. I was reading this statement that also made me think in this
context, and it's gave me a chuckle too. It said, you know, the only worst thing than getting old
is getting bored. And I think I'll amend that and say also getting cynical. Because if we get into
(16:26):
the state, we say, look, I've seen it all. I've done it all. Nothing surprises me anymore. And I
think when we find ourselves in that state, we really need to break through it, because that's
when is our opening to experience wonders of life in any ways that are very readily available to us.
(16:50):
That's the other thing I love about it, right? Nothing we are talking about is about money.
It's not even about time. It's taking a pause, looking around and being moved by what is happening
around us, whether that is the squirrel moving, the sun rising, sun setting, and someone extending
an act of kindness to us or that we hear about. It is a wonderful thing. Yeah, I agree. I agree.
(17:18):
The other example that comes to mind, and this is a bit of a moral beauty example, is living in the
DC area and traveling in and out of the airports. Sometimes you're lucky enough to see what's called
an honor flight. Do you know what these are? No, I don't know what they are. Okay, the honor flight.
(17:39):
It's so amazing. The Department of Veterans Affairs will provide any veteran in the US,
maybe abroad, but I know at least in the US, the opportunity to come and visit DC and see the
memorials. They pay for the flights, they pay for accommodations, there's programs that happen on the
(18:06):
regular that bring in all of these World War II veterans. Many of them are wheeled off in wheelchairs.
They're assisted by someone that the VA assigns to them. When they come off, generally they're in
a hat or uniform, something that acknowledges them. It's typically 20, 25, or 30 coming off.
(18:31):
Everyone claps in the whole airport. I'll start to cry just thinking about it.
These older men and women who gave so much, and it's just wonderful to see.
Wonderful to see. It is wonderful to see. I think, Christine, thank you for sharing that.
(18:53):
That combines multiple elements of the eight that you mentioned. It is moral beauty, it is music,
it is movement, it is unity in sharing and appreciating that experience. That also made me think why I
am so moved by a military march, band, parade type of thing, including college football games
(19:20):
that are known for their pageantry in these big schools. When there is that
band march, the spirit of students, parents, everyone coming together, you find yourself
in this collective of appreciation and you are really moved by it. That may even make you cry
(19:45):
at times. That's a great point. I think putting ourselves deliberately into situations to experience
that is pretty amazing. You just gave a great example. I think we have another immediate
opportunity for our listeners in the United States. We have got Port of July coming up next week.
(20:11):
I think that is another opportunity to experience all with some amazing celebration appreciation,
including some fireworks. That always, for me, all inspiring too.
Yeah. I love when music is put to the fireworks too. It just brings it way up.
Yes. That's right. I think what we are saying is these eight elements that you mentioned,
(20:34):
they are each powerful, but when they are coming together in a number of combinations,
it becomes even more memorable and moving. Yes, absolutely.
So there are a couple other things to think about and we wanted to share, well, what happens to
your body? What do you experience? So awe actually reduces daily stressors of life. What the research
(21:02):
found is that it elevates the activation of the vagus nerve and reduces inflammation.
There is a famous quote that Emerson said that there is nothing that nature or awe can't repair.
They are showing that actually this reduced inflammation does all the great things for
your body. Reduces the risk of cancer, stress, obviously. I know these words have come out of
(21:30):
my mouth. When my daughter was born, I was like, I have done everything I can do in this world.
Like this is an amazing moment. They say, your self or your, it's basically like
(21:56):
the dissolving of self happens when you see awe. That's just bigger than you as a person.
So what they have done in the labs actually studying people is when they showed people
experiencing awe and they had scanners on the brain and they measured the different activity
(22:16):
from the different areas of the brain and said basically the default mode network part of the
brain, which is your prefrontal cortex, also your posterior cortex, they actually relax.
So you're not thinking about yourself, your ego. And if you can think about those eight sources of
(22:38):
awe and times that you've witnessed or seen something, you're really not thinking about
yourself. You're thinking about, wow, this is vast. This is big. This is gigantic. I can't
believe I'm experiencing this and lost in the moment.
Amazing. Actually, the neuroscience of it and why it works wonders for the spirit, mind,
(23:00):
physically and emotionally. And it stays with you. I think an example also of that is the
iconic picture of our planet from space, which was taken at one of the early space flights.
And you look at that sort of blue marble spinning in the vastness of space. And I think it may also,
(23:21):
at times, cultivate a sense of appreciation and gratitude as well. Because you look at it and
you say, oh, that's our planet. That's what we are on. You look at it from the distance, how
beautiful and also how fragile it is. So we had better appreciation for it. And I think it's
an amazing activation for positive energy and calming in the moment. But I think it also brings
(23:47):
a level of perspective potentially that can guide our actions following.
Yeah. And that's it. That's a great example of how we can help to create a better world.
And I think that's a great example of how we can help to create a better world.
Yeah. Yeah. And that's an important thought. And the other thing to think about and what they
(24:12):
found in this research, too, which I thought was interesting is some people are naturally
pulled to awe. And some people really have to work to find it. That's probably not a surprise
because there are so many different personalities and your DNA and your experiences have led you to
in life. But they said that, hey, you could ask someone every day for 14 days,
(24:40):
what would it be found in terms of awe? And they're like, nothing. Don't get it. And then you could
find someone else who sees awe every single day and appreciates life. Yeah, that's right. I think
that can be the case in a lot of places. I think we talked about in one of our prior episodes on
power of smiling. And that can come naturally to some people. They're smiling all the time, no matter
(25:05):
what happens. And for some others, not so much. And the smile therapy and making yourself smile
even when you don't feel like it, but still it creates a positive impact. So I think that's a
good point. There are many things that may or may not come to us naturally, but making an effort to
give it a go and be open-minded about it can do wonders because we need to reduce inflammation
(25:34):
and improve longevity. And what better way to do it than experiencing wonder for all that's going
on around us, yes. Yeah. And you can curate it. So this is one of the recommendations that Keltner
says is even scheduling, finding 10 minutes of awe a week is beneficial. Some of the things that he
(25:57):
recommended was playing an album that's really meaningful to you that really cuts to your core.
You feel that physical and emotional connection to can create an everyday moment of awe.
Taking an awe walk, they have now guided meditation if you need it to find beauty in nature. Again,
(26:20):
10 minutes is all you need for it to actually make an impact. Lie on a blanket, watch the clouds.
At nighttime, watch the stars. Giving yourself that downtime and opportunity to just understand and
appreciate the mystery that the world holds for us. Those are all good examples.
(26:46):
Yeah, very true. And I think we give new levels of appreciation and expression to some of these
practices that may naturally be experienced by many others for millennial, but like the notion of
forest bathing. Like, okay, what is forest bathing? What is that even? But I think it connects out
(27:08):
with deliberately experiencing nature when you are in a forest environment. Like you said, maybe it's
the red woods, maybe it's something else. It can't struck that sense of wonder. So beautiful ways to
experience it. I think if nothing else, just pause and look out the window. And there is bound to
(27:30):
be something out there to help us appreciate what's going on. And the beauty of this is, I think also
we don't have to problem solve it. We don't have to understand it to its fullest extent. And the
mystery of it is also what makes it compelling and energizing and inspiring. You know, just looking up
(27:56):
at the sky at night. And we don't understand all of what's going on, the mysteries of the universe,
but that's what makes it special in a way. Yes, agree, agree. And that's kind of freeing. You don't
have to really do too much to just appreciate and be one with the big world that is ours.
(28:16):
Yes, that's exactly right. So as we wind down, what are our specific parting thoughts on
the suggestions? Christine, you called out some really good ones. Any other thoughts in closing?
Yeah, I think that, you know, going back to the eight sources of moral beauty, nature, collective
(28:39):
movement, music, art, spirituality, big ideas, life and death. So think about which ones may become
more naturally to you. And I would say, you know, pick one and try in for the next week,
schedule 10 minutes, just bring more awe into your life. We know it's good for our bodies,
(28:59):
good for our minds. And for those who want to go deeper, I would say read the book,
the new science of everyday wonder and how it can transform your life. There's some great stories
in there. Another one maybe just to leave on a very, I think, emotionally warming note. One of
(29:20):
the stories was a mother who had a daughter and she was born with a club foot and they
experienced her performing a ballet recital flawlessly after much training, after much determination,
and just the moral beauty of the others just rallying around this girl and just seeing her
(29:47):
shine. I mean, those are the stories that like give you fuel, right? For to do anything to
help others be their best self. So that's just one and there's 25 other stories that folks might be
interested in digging into. That's phenomenal. Thank you for mentioning that, Christine. I think in a
(30:09):
world where we are bombarded by negative news, but that get amplification,
social media, digital platforms all serve a purpose, but there's a lot of it and it can be
stressful. So stepping outside of that to achieve this level of appreciation, even in a fleeting
manner, can do wonders, pun intended. And that's an awesome way to think about it and reflect on it.
(30:38):
And I think, one, the practice of experiencing it ourselves and second level in my mind is
how can we help others experience it as well? So that is, that's I think the challenge I'm going to
issue ourselves. Yeah, I think you'd make a great ambassador. I can't wait to see what else people
(31:01):
experience for the rest of their day now that you have this challenge. Yes, that's exactly right.
I love the title. I think I may update my LinkedIn profile to include that. That is going to be
a very unique one for sure, but an important one for life. So you gave me a big idea. Thank you.
Of course. All right. So with that, I believe we will sign off until next time. Until next time.
(31:37):
Thank you for listening. Our hope is to spark a little joy,
inspire and educate our listeners in ways to live an even more meaningful life.
If you have reactions to share from what you've heard, please visit our website,
refinement.life to leave a voice message. You may even be featured in a future episode. To keep
in touch, subscribe to our podcast, Re-Firement Life, using the podcast player of your choice.
(32:03):
Always remember, you are never too old to set a new goal or to dream a new dream. Thanks again
for joining us on this episode. Until next time.
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