November 8, 2023 • 35 mins
This is a reposting of an episode discussing a "Do as I Do" leadership style released on Kim Benoit's "We've all done it" podcast.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:10):
Welcome to the We've All Done it podcast.
If you are struggling with sometoxic work BS, you, my friend,
are in the right place.
Office politics are hard andsometimes we are the fun and
dysfunction.
I am Kimberly Benoit, your hostand author of We've All Done it
, getting real about the role weeach play in a toxic workplace.
(00:31):
With over 20 years ofleadership experience and yes,
my own toxic missteps, I will bejoined by leaders just like you
and I to explore commonleadership situations that every
leader finds themselves in atsome point in their career.
We discuss lessons learned in ajudgment-free space because, no
(00:51):
matter how it feels, we aren'talone in our struggles.
We all have our own BS and wecan support and learn from each
other.
Alright, welcome to the latestepisode of We've All Done it.
I am really excited for ourguest today and we're just going
to jump right in.
So today we have Reggie Johnsonwith us.
(01:12):
So, mr Johnson, please tell usabout yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
That's an amazing intro right there.
I like the Mr Johnson.
I could probably just cut thatout the show and just play that
back for myself.
You know, when over again in mydown times I'm Reggie Johnson,
I do a show called Reggie ATL.
It's a podcast that I startedin 2018.
I used to do radio inMississippi before that start
(01:36):
92.3.
And yeah, it was pretty good.
It was a smaller market.
It wasn't like a big citysituation, like maybe 50,000
people or so.
It wasn't crazy, but it was anice experience.
I came back to Atlanta and Iwanted to get back into that and
a friend of mine recommended anew podcasting because he felt
(01:58):
like terrestrial radio was kindof like a dying thing and he was
like you should try to get intopodcasting.
I was like, all right, cool.
So I started to show up onReggie ATL and I also do our
managed events as well, which isvery fun because they're two
very different things.
You know, doing podcasts, youget the chance to talk to all
kinds of people Kimberly, as youknow, from all over, and that's
(02:19):
amazing.
And doing events, it's similarbut it's just in person.
It's, you know, thousands ofpeople.
It's around all the time Anightmare to some, but very,
very cool to me.
I really like doing it.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So it's very interesting because you're not
alluding to it.
You're kind of hinting at thefact that in your managing of
these events, you actually havea leadership role, and
podcasting is a leadership roletoo.
But it's a little bit differentthan when, to your point, when
you're managing events withhundreds, if not thousands, of
people and there's a lot ofexpectation there.
(02:54):
You know, you have talked to meabout the fact that you have a
tremendous passion for do as Isay versus do as I do leadership
.
So tell me a little bit moreabout that.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well, I think that just comes from people in my
past.
You know, when I was not in aleadership role, I would look at
managers who did things I likedand felt like.
When I did get into leadershiprole one day I would kind of
take that and look at things Ididn't like.
And one of the things I reallydidn't like was managers who
(03:27):
would say that you should docertain things, but they didn't
really kind of practice whatthey preach, so to speak.
They would say that certainrules or certain operating
procedures or certain justmethods of going about things
they would say it but they wouldnever do it and I didn't like
how that made me feel kind ofback then when I was
(03:48):
experiencing these things.
So it's one of those thingswhere I just made a cognitive
effort to make sure that I amdoing and incorporating into my
leadership style and, as youknow, there's just several
different leadership styles outhere, but this has been
wonderful for me in myleadership journey here.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So what do you see as the key difference in showing
up as this kind of a leader?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I think that you're going to get more buy-in.
You can get more buy-in because, just like with anything, you
know, when we are even growingup with your parents or stuff
like that, or maybe oldermentors or things like that,
it's one thing to listen to whatthey say, but you're watching
what they do.
You know, if your parents aresaying, hey, it's important for
(04:33):
you not to spend more than youmake, and they're constantly
doing just that, you can eithertake away from that the uh, the
repercussions, kind of like whathappens, of of of the activity,
and think that, hey, I'm goingto go in the opposite way
because I saw how destructivethat was, or you just never
incorporated those habitsbecause of, naturally or
(04:55):
subconsciously, it's just whatyou've seen them do.
So I think that it's easier, um, for you to for, and for staff
too, when you're with staff, forthem to know the method behind
the madness, so to speak, whenyou're actually doing it, versus
just saying it.
You know people say, oh, youknow, don't, don't do this after
a certain hour, or I want youto show up for certain hours.
(05:16):
Let's go over that.
Let's say, hey, I want you toshow up, uh, on on Friday and I
need you to work till eight.
Let's say that you get off atfive.
I need you to work to eight.
You just say you know what, I'ma team player, and they give
you this whole team player spiel.
I'm a team player, I'm going toshow up, you're in there and
it's a ghost town in there.
It's only you and maybe twoother people in there, and the
person that told you to be inthere is nowhere to be found.
(05:37):
They're with their familyhanging out.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
They're on vacation.
What do you mean?
They're not home, they're onvacation.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
That's why they needed you there, you know, so
that you can cover them, and Ifeel like people respect you
more when they feel like you'reactually taking part in the
things that you discuss and wantthem to do.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
It's so interesting because one of the thing that
comes to mind for me is um, in acompany I worked for it was it
was we would have leaders whowould send emails at like
midnight, one o'clock, weekends,holidays, vacations, and
occasionally they would saythings like not often.
(06:19):
Some of them were like, if I'mdoing it, you're doing it.
Um, but then you had otherpeople who would say hey, just
because I do this doesn't mean Iexpect you to do it.
But going back to what you'resaying is, is is somewhere along
the line.
That's reinforced behavior.
So, you know, one of thecomments that I've gotten from
mentees is like, well, I'm goingto do what they're doing
(06:40):
because that's how they got towhere they are, and so, even
though you're telling me don'tdo that, well, clearly it worked
for them, so they got promotedand so, in a weird way, it's
it's what I think about.
The do as I do.
Leadership is not only are yousetting an example, but you're
(07:01):
also showing that behavior isreinforced by you being in
leadership in the first place,if that makes sense, like
because I mean, that's a hardargument to make of.
Like, well, you know, is thatthe culture?
Is that really what'sreinforced at the level above.
Yeah, that leader may say don'tdo it, but if the leader level
above you says no, you have tobe on whenever we want you to be
(07:24):
on.
I mean, I've had leader.
I had a leader who, almost, whowas trying to call me during my
grandmother's funeral becausehe felt it was he had an
important question.
He clearly had no boundaries,right.
So you know, for him he, butfor him he was very clear and I
understood that was a do as I dobecause he had no boundaries.
(07:44):
He expected me not to haveboundaries.
So at least you know I knewwhat I was getting.
But where I think it getsreally murky is when you have
somebody who say says do this,but then they don't do it
themselves, and I think it justsends really mixed messages to
people.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I totally agree.
And one of the things too thatI've been cognizant of growing
up and watching from a careerperspective and watching other
leaders, is you don't ever knowwhy somebody's promoted and in
my particular cases that I'veseen, a lot of them are just
been 10 year base.
They haven't been performancebased.
It has been like, well, thisperson, I literally had one
(08:23):
promotion, one, one guy I knowwho got promoted literally
because Kim, other departmentsdid not want him in their
department, so they promoted himin our department because they
didn't want him in theirs.
And they were like well, he'sbeen here for almost 10 years,
we've got to put him somewhere.
And they put him with us and weknew immediately he was not
qualified.
So you we have to be carefulabout seeing somebody in a
(08:47):
certain position, whether it'san economic position or
leadership position, and tryingto figure out how they got there
, because unless you walked intheir shoes, you don't really
know how they got that job.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
But when you think about it from a behavior
standpoint, right like that's aleader.
People look up to leaders andyou somewhere.
The chain of logic applies ofif I want to be a leader, I
should probably emulate that Forsure, or things in that.
So whether how they got thereis not necessarily as important,
(09:20):
but it's more of that'svaluable to somebody Like they
kept that gentleman for somereason they did.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
He's a nice guy too.
I'm not knocking him, I'm notgoing to say his name, but he
was a nice guy.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
But again, but you're sending a message right.
So he was not technicallyproficient.
He probably took.
According to you, he reallywasn't qualified for that job.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
No, no, it was laugh, it was funny to us when he even
came over, it was hilarious.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Well, and that's the thing is like well, what message
does it send to everybody else?
Like well, to get promoted here, you really don't need to know
anything.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Just stand around for 10 years and it could happen
for you.
Oh my God, that's like that'sso, that's so demotivating.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
But I mean think about it.
So in that, in that companythat you work for, like how did
that affect the engagement?
How did that affect how peoplefelt about that company?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I think that it makes you question the decision
making of others for sure,because it makes you question
the leader over them's decisionmaking.
So in this particular casemaybe the operations manager,
general manager, something likethat you question their decision
making because they put thisperson in position who doesn't
know what they're doing.
Nice person, they have beenaround for 10 years.
But it'd be like takingsomebody's been around 10 years
(10:37):
in accounting and putting themin sales and putting them in a
leadership role in sales, likeas if they they're the same job.
You know they're very differentjobs, even if you've been
around for a decade, you know.
So it was.
It went exactly as you youwould expect.
I feel like him being a niceguy kind of helped, but we kind
of just did what we wanted to dobecause he didn't know what he
(10:58):
was doing.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
That could go so wrong.
We just did what everyone andhe didn't know, yeah he was.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I mean he was a president, but we would be like
he just didn't know.
It wasn't really fair to him inthat sense.
And but like I said to he,because he I think what did help
him and what could be a greatleadership skill is not coming
in acting like you know.
You know he didn't even pretendlike he did, so that actually
(11:28):
helped him, versus him coming inand acting as if he did know
what he was doing would haveprobably backfired because you
genuinely didn't.
So it actually helped that hewas a friendly guy and I think
that he got by more on hisemotional intelligence, kind of
got him through there.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
So one of the things that I think in this thought
that came to me when you weretalking earlier, but just what
you said is super pivotal is,for me, every leader I have ever
had, I have walked away evenlike, regardless of they were
great, they were terrible, I'vewalked away with something that
I would want to emulate, likesomething that I respected, and
(12:10):
I was like, wow, that's a skillI could leverage, I should grow,
I should, you know, figure outhow to get better at that.
And, equally, there was usuallyalways some element of that is
not something I would ever wantto perpetuate, that's not
something I'd want to do tosomebody else.
That's not a skill or abehavior that I find that I like
(12:36):
in a leader, and so for that,even in that case, right, you're
sitting here and you're likehe's a nice guy, he's got great
emotional intelligence, like hedidn't try to pretend, he didn't
follow the fake it till youmake it motto.
Yeah like he.
So.
So, even in this moment, andwhen you're talking about do as
I do, that guy actually showedup as a pretty good example of
(12:57):
when, in a situation that youdon't have control, how would
you want someone to show up?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You know it's interesting because I think that
one of the first thing you haveto do is genuinely show up and
be transparent about what you're, what you're, how much
knowledge you may have in thatfield or whatever you're doing,
and let people know that you'rewilling to to learn.
You're not just gonna come hereand just try to dictate because
(13:27):
you don't really know.
You're working with people whohave worked in these departments
, no matter where.
That department may be a lotlonger than you, and there's a
lot that that leaders can learn.
I feel like my I'm in leadershiprole and I feel like I learn
all the time.
So I do feel like you can comein and learn from people.
Just because you may be in amanagement or supervisor role
(13:48):
doesn't mean that you cannotlearn from other human beings.
Everybody's good at differentthings, can really right, so I
feel like I can learn a lot frompeople in other areas.
You know I might be good at afew things, but there's so much
more that we can learn and henever really he didn't really
shy away from that.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
So, when you think about yourself as a leader, have
you ever caught yourself Notliving by the motto of do as I
do?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I feel like I'm not really because I'm so passionate
about it's like you know this.
I feel like we all have certainthings right that really just
know grind us, so to speak, andand that was one of the things.
So that was one of the thingswhere it was two things actually
.
That was one, and another thingis I wanted to be a hard.
I want to be a hard workermanager for hard workers.
So I'm a hard worker manager.
If you come in and you applyyourself and you're, you're,
(14:40):
you're working hard, you'regonna love work with me.
If you're coming in, you'remore like a slacker, because I
was a hard worker who Work withslackers and management would
just let them get away withmurder and he used to kill us,
to kill our morale, like they'rethis person's not pulling their
weight, you know.
So those were issues, that, twothings that are really keyed in
on that.
When I became you knowleadership and be the first one
(15:02):
out there.
If I'm going to tell them to dosomething, I'm gonna be the
first one out there to do it.
I'm going to lead by thatexample and you'd be surprised
how much better things are.
People kind of fall into linebecause you can hold people to a
certain level of accountability.
When you're doing it yourself,hey, hey, well, I'm actually out
here doing it.
If there's a reason that youmay not want to do it, we can
(15:22):
discuss it.
I'm not like a tiring, I'm notlike a you're going to do this
or else.
I've never been that guy andI've never had to be that guy to
get things done, but it's.
It's a situation where, whenyou are actually doing it
yourself and they see you doingit yourself, they're kind of
doing that math in their headlike well, if this guy's out
there, like yeah, what excuse doI have?
You know?
Speaker 1 (15:44):
So I'm going to fess up like I struggled with that.
I'll give you a story.
And so it wasn't so much that Iwouldn't jump in and do the
work, that was never a question,it was it was setting the
boundaries of taking care ofmyself.
So here's a story, and this wasactually a huge moment for me.
(16:05):
So I had this is soembarrassing so I had a small
team and we were always underthe gun for crazy deliverables
and so you know.
So there was always a lot ofwork happening and there was a
lot of things happening and Ihad gotten like some cold or
(16:26):
like a cough or something, and I, you know, you just muscle
through like you pop a lozenge,you pop some medicine, you show
up, you go to work, obviouslypre COVID, because now you cough
in an office setting and Ithink everybody wants to panic.
Really pre COVID, and so I don'tremember what it was, but
(16:46):
anyway.
So my leader at the time callsme into my office and she sits
down and I'm like what is goingon?
Like I'm so confused.
And she said, kim, how manydays have you been sick?
And I said I don't know.
She's like no, I want you tosit down and I want you to look
(17:07):
at your calendar.
How long have you been sick?
And I had to embarrassly count.
It was like eight days.
I had been coughing and say, ohyeah, it was, it was one.
It was sad that I didn'trealize how badly I call it.
And then she said she's likeokay, she's like, if you, if
this were one of your teammembers, what would you tell
(17:30):
them to do?
And it was like, it was likeshe almost took on like a
kindergarten teacher tone withme and I was like because now I
knew it was like oh, I said,well, I would tell them that
they need to close their laptopand they need to go to urgent
care or something.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And they need to take care of themselves.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And she's like mm-hmm , so what kind of example are we
setting right now for your team?
And I was like by you goingthis long without doing that?
And I was.
I was like, well, not a, not agood one.
And so she says so what are wegoing to do now?
(18:11):
What, what, what are you goingto do?
And I said, well, I'm going toleave, I'm going to go to urgent
care.
And she's like and so, as Istarted to pack up, she's like
oh no, the laptop stays here.
She's like turn closed laptop,you can come back tomorrow, but
for the rest of the day, if Isee you sending emails, she's
(18:33):
like no, and it was one of.
It was like a humbling momentbecause I always considered
myself a good leader and I waslike I will do anything, I will
jump in, exactly what you'retalking about.
But it took that moment for meto realize that it wasn't just
getting the work done, it wasalso in how was I taking care of
(18:53):
myself?
Was I the one sending emails,like taking text messages while
I was on vacation, when thetruth was, I didn't have to
because the team could cover it.
But I will never forget that.
I remember.
I still tell that story and, andeven now, like I'm very mindful
of okay, I feel a certain way,do I need to take time off?
(19:15):
But again, she was absolutelyright.
I was like, I was like I waslike a mama hen with them, and
anytime they get sick I wouldsend them home, and but I wasn't
doing it for myself, and so Iwas that leader that I was
referring to.
I was saying no, no, no, youhave the freedom to go do this.
But yet the example I wassetting was one that was very
(19:37):
different and I think, secretly,my team was so grateful I left.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Because I got, I mean .
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I didn't.
I just didn't notice how sick Iwas because I was so buried in
the work.
So I'm just putting that outthere, that it doesn't.
Also, it doesn't always have tobe about are you doing the work
to.
But also, are you like when wesay work life balance, when we
say self care, those are greatbuzz phrases, but are you
actually?
Is that another place whereyou're do as I do, leadership
(20:07):
versus creating a standard foryourself that's not the same for
your team.
I think that's incrediblyimportant to model that space as
well.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
You bring up a solid point, and one that I feel like,
if you're a leader that caresabout either what you're doing
or who you're doing it with,you're going to struggle with
that.
The first job we feel like wehave to do is be present.
Right, that's the first thingwe've had.
We got to be present.
Storms, snow, rain, heat,sleets, it doesn't matter, hell,
(20:40):
we have to be present and I'vealways provided myself on that.
And it's so funny that youbring this story up, because I
got told that three weeks ago, Ithink the actual time.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
This would, at least for me, this was like five years
ago.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, this happened to me three weeks ago.
I was I missed, I was going tomiss a meeting.
And I asked because I wasscheduled to work in event the
same day and I was going to missbecause we had meetings twice a
week.
And I, after like four or fivedays, I was called in and I
spoke to my boss and I told herwell, I'm going to just skip out
(21:20):
on this meeting, I'm notfeeling great, but I'll be there
for the event.
And she was like, oh, it's beenlike five days, like maybe you
should go to urgent care.
You know what?
I'm going to urgent care.
I went.
I went the next day.
But, sometimes you need peopleto tell you stuff like that,
right?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
It's.
It's hard because From a do asI say or do what do as I do
standpoint you always want, likeyou're the hardest working
person here, I'm here, I'mavailable, I'm on time, I'm
punctual, I'm here for myteammates If they need me for
emotional support or for actualsupport in other ways.
(22:01):
But you can't do any of that ifyou're barely upright right,
like if you're Well and it'sfunny.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
So a prior episode we were talking with Angela Tate
about servant leadership andthis idea that you know the
ideal leader you want is who isa servant leader, who is there
to serve yes, grow the peoplearound them.
It's not like a power dynamic,and one of the things we talk
about so importantly is the onlyway you can show up and serve
others is if you actually aretaking care of yourself and do
(22:32):
you know what your boundariesare.
But I think it's hard.
I mean, you know, I think aboutthat, like when I, when you
have teams like you are sofocused on how to.
Well, if you're a good leader,you're very focused on what is
my team getting?
What they need?
And you know she made ananalogy, even to parenting,
about like you get so focused ontrying to take care of other
(22:54):
people that you forget that yourname should be on that list too
.
So for anybody listening, don'tfeel bad, you're not alone,
that's why this is called.
We've all done it Again, wantingpeople to feel seen, understood
, so, but for you, so in thatmoment.
So how like?
So clearly you were notfollowing your own mantra, Right
(23:17):
, if people are like checkingyou?
So how are you?
How do you get more mindful?
What do you do to be moremindful of?
Am I following my mantra in allaspects of my leadership?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It's hard in that sense because I don't really
ever, when I'm thinking aboutleadership from my perspective,
it's only team focused.
I'm not I mean, I'm notincluding myself in there, you
know.
So in order to take that stepback, you got to kind of step
outside of yourself and thenlook at, you know, and the whole
situation for me, I was justlike it's a little cough, I'm
(23:51):
going to come in, I gotta do.
You know, I'm always there formy team.
I'm not going to sit at, sit athome while my team is out there
doing whatever they're doing.
You know, you think that right,and and it's funny because if
my boss had never said that, canI just I don't I've probably
been there getting getting allkinds of people sick.
(24:12):
I mean, who knows, it's justnot something.
I just didn't think about up tothat point, because I just
think about just the job.
You know, whatever, whatever ittakes to get a certain job done
and to make sure my teammatesfeel like they were able to
execute to the best of theirabilities, and I'm giving them
(24:32):
everything to do so, and that'sall I'm thinking about usually
at the time I'm.
It's rare I've had an eventwhere I got cut on my hand and
they had to send me home.
They were like your, your, yourhand is bleeding, won't stop,
you got to go home.
I'm like, no, only have an hourleft that I can.
I can get through it.
You know, sometimes it takeshindsight can't really write to
(24:55):
look back and be like what wasthat thinking?
Like my hand was bleeding.
I could, I think it did it thatlast hour without me.
But I'm like I gotta be herewith them and I gotta, you know,
do this, do this to the end.
I'm staying to the end of theday.
I'm going to be the last personto leave, type thing, you know,
because you get so used todoing that.
But I do think that it probablydoes help to try to and I know
(25:16):
it could be difficult, becauseit's difficult for me to try to
step outside of yourself andlook at yourself and see if
you're actually doing what'sbest for for everybody.
And showing up sick or nottaking care of yourself, even
from just a mental healthstandpoint, can really cause.
Sometimes people just need amental health thing, right,
sometimes not even a sickness.
Sometimes you need a mentalhealth day and being able to
(25:39):
take those those that time foryourself is beneficial to others
.
But that's been a learningprocess because I'm so like I
gotta be there.
I gotta be first one in, lastone out types.
You know, you all the stuffthat you say.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Well, and it's, it's so funny because I coach, I
mentor to the whole idea thatyou can't serve from an empty
vessel, and it's, it's theanalogy, it's the thing of when
you're on the plane and they'relike you know, the mask goes on
you first.
Don't put the mask on your teamfirst.
You got to put the mask on youfirst because if you aren't,
(26:16):
okay, if you aren't and I'm even100%, I mean I don't think
anybody shows up on any day,actually 100%, yes, but like, if
you're not showing up as thebest you can on that day, then
you're not serving anybody,you're not helping anybody.
And to your point, am I makingpeople sick?
Am I slowing down the process?
(26:36):
You know if, if I am not in theright headspace, I could
actually derail what we're doingSimply by me being my not so
great self.
And so for me and I'm notsaying I have it right, but I
think it's always coming back toasking the question like where
(26:59):
am I on the list?
And I've got to make sure I'mtowards the top, so, and then
again it's not saying that I'mnot going to not show up and do
what needs to be done for myteam, but also asking like, how
do you feel today?
Are you okay?
And if you and if I am notfeeling well, like gut checking,
like how long have I not feltwell?
Because, again, it's that wholeconcept of not being present
(27:21):
with yourself, like, especiallyif you're so externally focused,
it's easy to neglect aches,pains.
You know, I think about somebodyused to work with and she used
to talk about the fact that shehad headaches, constantly,
chronic headaches, and she endedup leaving the company and
going to another role and wewere chatting and she said you
know what was shocking to me?
She said I looked in my bag andI realized I didn't have to go
(27:44):
by ibuprofen because I hadn'thad a headache in changing.
So like she wasn't even awarethat the role she was in was so
stressful for her that she waspopping them like tic-tacs just
to get through a day, and ittook her changing jobs to even
realize it.
So it's like those kinds ofthings how do you become aware
(28:07):
of how you were showing up?
I think this is where you know Iused to advise this and I tried
to do this with my team as welltoo as best you can, but you
have to have the rightrelationship.
It's to allow people tochallenge you a little bit and
be able to call you on it and belike um, that's a lot of blood
coming from your hand, reggie.
That's exactly what happened?
(28:28):
Can y'all, can you just go,cause the blood is freaking
people out Like that, butfeeling you have to have that
relationship where your team cansay, you know?
I still wondered like, didsomeone on my team go tell my
boss like, hey, kim is a?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
walk-in mess.
You need to talk to her Cansomebody go talk to her.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
And it was so funny because I ended up on like, oh,
ton of antibiotics and oh yeah,I was sick, I was really sick
and but I'm grateful thatsomebody stopped me and forced
me to see myself differently,Because I was I definitely was
in my own little fog of go do,do, do and not necessarily.
(29:09):
And again, you're not showingup as the leader you want to be.
You just don't even realize itin the moment.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So yeah, it's, it's difficult, and I think you bring
up a solid point that I don'tfeel like can be glossed over,
and that's creating anenvironment where your team
feels comfortable to speak toyou.
And I don't look at that as anydifferent, even though there is
different dynamics thancreating an environment where my
daughter can it feelscomfortable telling me anything.
(29:35):
Is you create an environmentwhere your teammates feel
comfortable telling you anythingother, cause it's not like a
lot of times we know, into theseplaces we work at, they're
telling each other.
You know they might not bemaking it to you, but they're
talking amongst themselves.
So you want to be privy tothose conversations.
And if you only way I feel likeI can be privy to those
(29:55):
conversations is creating anenvironment where somebody
doesn't feel like that kind ofbehavior will be punitive or be
they'll be disciplined for it orI'll snap at them.
You know how dare you questionanything?
I want all the questions, youknow.
I want all of the.
I feel like if you are a leaderof other strong people or
leaders themselves, then youshould be able to stress, test
(30:17):
your perspectives and opinionsand not feel so and not feel
insecure about that.
You know, if you feel like youhave a solid point, defend your
point and if somebody else comesup with a better one, I'm very
quick to move off my my originalpoint.
If somebody presents a betterone, I'm out of here.
That point's out of here.
You know so.
But I feel like that comes withthe environment that you set.
(30:37):
That's why I love being inleadership so much, because I've
been able to set a certainenvironment for me and my
teammates to where we're all onequal footing.
Here.
I'm going to make the finaldecision, but I'm a big
consensus guy.
I'm going to really listen todifferent perspectives and
stress test my own perspectives,my own preconceived notions, to
see if if it is in the rightway or it is not.
(30:58):
And I believe that you can alsobenefit from that as well,
hugely your career.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Well, as we are rounding out our little
conversation, if there were onepiece of advice you'd want to
give our listeners out there,what is the one thing you'd want
to leave them with?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
The one thing.
I'd have wanted to leave themwith one piece of advice I would
say to if you're not in aleadership perspective, you're
not.
Or if you're not in aleadership position, I should
say the one thing I would say isto pay attention to what you
may may want to later on in life, because everything doesn't
(31:39):
happen right then.
You may be at a lower levelright now and, in the sense of
the company, not as a humanbeing.
Probably there's alwaysintrinsic value for a human
being.
So you're not as a human being,but maybe you might not be in
any company where you want to be.
It might not even be at thiscompany.
Maybe you're going to gosomeplace else.
Listen to where, listen to yourgut about where you want to be
(32:03):
like, listen to where you wantto be.
So if you are having, there'sgot to be leaderships around you
somewhere right, we all haveleaders we've dealt with from
point A to point B in ourcareers.
Be cognizant of that.
Take what you want to keep fromthem and bottle it up so that
when it's your chance to affectpeople the way that you want to
affect them, you still have thatthere, because that's something
(32:26):
that's possible for every humanbeing to do Like, even if you
aren't where you want to betoday and you see somebody who
is, you can take things that youwant to take from them, and one
day it could be 10 or 15 yearsdown the line You'll be able to
action that and cause.
That's how it happened for me.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, I think that's great advice and I also think
apply what you can today.
So of the things you see, andyou like, you don't have to have
some title to show up as aleader in your life, in your
work.
How can you start applyingthings so that it becomes who
you naturally are?
So, again, once you get to thatleadership, that titled place,
(33:07):
it's now just who you are.
It's not like you have to, it'sa checklist.
It's just how you view andapproach life.
I think that's really critical.
That's really great advice.
So I really enjoyed ourconversation.
I'm so grateful that you havejoined us to talk about this,
because this is so interesting,cause I think we all have great
(33:28):
intentions of showing up asthese amazing people, and
sometimes even the best of usmiss the mark, and that's okay.
It all comes back to what isyour intention and how do you
continue to grow and evolve, tocontinue to try to be that
leader we all wanna be.
So we're gonna have it in theshow notes, but if for people
(33:51):
who want to know more about you,where is the one place that
they should definitely go checkyou out?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Check me out at reginatlcom and you can also
look for Reginatel the show onall the streaming platforms
Spotify, apple podcasts, googlepodcasts, stitcher but all that
is at reginatlcom If you make itover there.
There's a lot of differentlinks and stuff there.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Awesome.
Like I said, all of this willbe in the show notes so you can
learn all about him, and we'llhave his bio and all the fun
stuff.
So thank you so much, regie.
I really appreciate you havingus.
You have coming on the showwith us.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Oh, absolutely Always amazing.
Our pre-show was amazing, theshow was amazing.
You're batting a thousand rightnow, kimmy.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Thank you for joining me on today's episode of We've
All Done it.
I know your time is valuable.
That's why I am for as littleBS as possible.
Hopefully today's episode hassparked some new ideas for you.
If you would like to learn moreabout the We've All Done it
leadership framework or how towork with me, please check out
my website atkimberleyjbenoitcom.
Until next time,
Welcome to the We've All Done it podcast.
If you are struggling with sometoxic work BS, you, my friend,
are in the right place.
Office politics are hard andsometimes we are the fun and
dysfunction.
I am Kimberly Benoit, your hostand author of We've All Done it
, getting real about the role weeach play in a toxic workplace.
(00:31):
With over 20 years ofleadership experience and yes,
my own toxic missteps, I will bejoined by leaders just like you
and I to explore commonleadership situations that every
leader finds themselves in atsome point in their career.
We discuss lessons learned in ajudgment-free space because, no
(00:51):
matter how it feels, we aren'talone in our struggles.
We all have our own BS and wecan support and learn from each
other.
Alright, welcome to the latestepisode of We've All Done it.
I am really excited for ourguest today and we're just going
to jump right in.
So today we have Reggie Johnsonwith us.
(01:12):
So, mr Johnson, please tell usabout yourself.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
That's an amazing intro right there.
I like the Mr Johnson.
I could probably just cut thatout the show and just play that
back for myself.
You know, when over again in mydown times I'm Reggie Johnson,
I do a show called Reggie ATL.
It's a podcast that I startedin 2018.
I used to do radio inMississippi before that start
(01:36):
92.3.
And yeah, it was pretty good.
It was a smaller market.
It wasn't like a big citysituation, like maybe 50,000
people or so.
It wasn't crazy, but it was anice experience.
I came back to Atlanta and Iwanted to get back into that and
a friend of mine recommended anew podcasting because he felt
(01:58):
like terrestrial radio was kindof like a dying thing and he was
like you should try to get intopodcasting.
I was like, all right, cool.
So I started to show up onReggie ATL and I also do our
managed events as well, which isvery fun because they're two
very different things.
You know, doing podcasts, youget the chance to talk to all
kinds of people Kimberly, as youknow, from all over, and that's
(02:19):
amazing.
And doing events, it's similarbut it's just in person.
It's, you know, thousands ofpeople.
It's around all the time Anightmare to some, but very,
very cool to me.
I really like doing it.
Speaker 1 (02:33):
So it's very interesting because you're not
alluding to it.
You're kind of hinting at thefact that in your managing of
these events, you actually havea leadership role, and
podcasting is a leadership roletoo.
But it's a little bit differentthan when, to your point, when
you're managing events withhundreds, if not thousands, of
people and there's a lot ofexpectation there.
(02:54):
You know, you have talked to meabout the fact that you have a
tremendous passion for do as Isay versus do as I do leadership
.
So tell me a little bit moreabout that.
Speaker 2 (03:06):
Well, I think that just comes from people in my
past.
You know, when I was not in aleadership role, I would look at
managers who did things I likedand felt like.
When I did get into leadershiprole one day I would kind of
take that and look at things Ididn't like.
And one of the things I reallydidn't like was managers who
(03:27):
would say that you should docertain things, but they didn't
really kind of practice whatthey preach, so to speak.
They would say that certainrules or certain operating
procedures or certain justmethods of going about things
they would say it but they wouldnever do it and I didn't like
how that made me feel kind ofback then when I was
(03:48):
experiencing these things.
So it's one of those thingswhere I just made a cognitive
effort to make sure that I amdoing and incorporating into my
leadership style and, as youknow, there's just several
different leadership styles outhere, but this has been
wonderful for me in myleadership journey here.
Speaker 1 (04:07):
So what do you see as the key difference in showing
up as this kind of a leader?
Speaker 2 (04:13):
I think that you're going to get more buy-in.
You can get more buy-in because, just like with anything, you
know, when we are even growingup with your parents or stuff
like that, or maybe oldermentors or things like that,
it's one thing to listen to whatthey say, but you're watching
what they do.
You know, if your parents aresaying, hey, it's important for
(04:33):
you not to spend more than youmake, and they're constantly
doing just that, you can eithertake away from that the uh, the
repercussions, kind of like whathappens, of of of the activity,
and think that, hey, I'm goingto go in the opposite way
because I saw how destructivethat was, or you just never
incorporated those habitsbecause of, naturally or
(04:55):
subconsciously, it's just whatyou've seen them do.
So I think that it's easier, um, for you to for, and for staff
too, when you're with staff, forthem to know the method behind
the madness, so to speak, whenyou're actually doing it, versus
just saying it.
You know people say, oh, youknow, don't, don't do this after
a certain hour, or I want youto show up for certain hours.
(05:16):
Let's go over that.
Let's say, hey, I want you toshow up, uh, on on Friday and I
need you to work till eight.
Let's say that you get off atfive.
I need you to work to eight.
You just say you know what, I'ma team player, and they give
you this whole team player spiel.
I'm a team player, I'm going toshow up, you're in there and
it's a ghost town in there.
It's only you and maybe twoother people in there, and the
person that told you to be inthere is nowhere to be found.
(05:37):
They're with their familyhanging out.
Speaker 1 (05:41):
They're on vacation.
What do you mean?
They're not home, they're onvacation.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
That's why they needed you there, you know, so
that you can cover them, and Ifeel like people respect you
more when they feel like you'reactually taking part in the
things that you discuss and wantthem to do.
Speaker 1 (05:58):
It's so interesting because one of the thing that
comes to mind for me is um, in acompany I worked for it was it
was we would have leaders whowould send emails at like
midnight, one o'clock, weekends,holidays, vacations, and
occasionally they would saythings like not often.
(06:19):
Some of them were like, if I'mdoing it, you're doing it.
Um, but then you had otherpeople who would say hey, just
because I do this doesn't mean Iexpect you to do it.
But going back to what you'resaying is, is is somewhere along
the line.
That's reinforced behavior.
So, you know, one of thecomments that I've gotten from
mentees is like, well, I'm goingto do what they're doing
(06:40):
because that's how they got towhere they are, and so, even
though you're telling me don'tdo that, well, clearly it worked
for them, so they got promotedand so, in a weird way, it's
it's what I think about.
The do as I do.
Leadership is not only are yousetting an example, but you're
(07:01):
also showing that behavior isreinforced by you being in
leadership in the first place,if that makes sense, like
because I mean, that's a hardargument to make of.
Like, well, you know, is thatthe culture?
Is that really what'sreinforced at the level above.
Yeah, that leader may say don'tdo it, but if the leader level
above you says no, you have tobe on whenever we want you to be
(07:24):
on.
I mean, I've had leader.
I had a leader who, almost, whowas trying to call me during my
grandmother's funeral becausehe felt it was he had an
important question.
He clearly had no boundaries,right.
So you know, for him he, butfor him he was very clear and I
understood that was a do as I dobecause he had no boundaries.
(07:44):
He expected me not to haveboundaries.
So at least you know I knewwhat I was getting.
But where I think it getsreally murky is when you have
somebody who say says do this,but then they don't do it
themselves, and I think it justsends really mixed messages to
people.
Speaker 2 (08:01):
I totally agree.
And one of the things too thatI've been cognizant of growing
up and watching from a careerperspective and watching other
leaders, is you don't ever knowwhy somebody's promoted and in
my particular cases that I'veseen, a lot of them are just
been 10 year base.
They haven't been performancebased.
It has been like, well, thisperson, I literally had one
(08:23):
promotion, one, one guy I knowwho got promoted literally
because Kim, other departmentsdid not want him in their
department, so they promoted himin our department because they
didn't want him in theirs.
And they were like well, he'sbeen here for almost 10 years,
we've got to put him somewhere.
And they put him with us and weknew immediately he was not
qualified.
So you we have to be carefulabout seeing somebody in a
(08:47):
certain position, whether it'san economic position or
leadership position, and tryingto figure out how they got there
, because unless you walked intheir shoes, you don't really
know how they got that job.
Speaker 1 (08:58):
But when you think about it from a behavior
standpoint, right like that's aleader.
People look up to leaders andyou somewhere.
The chain of logic applies ofif I want to be a leader, I
should probably emulate that Forsure, or things in that.
So whether how they got thereis not necessarily as important,
(09:20):
but it's more of that'svaluable to somebody Like they
kept that gentleman for somereason they did.
Speaker 2 (09:28):
He's a nice guy too.
I'm not knocking him, I'm notgoing to say his name, but he
was a nice guy.
Speaker 1 (09:33):
But again, but you're sending a message right.
So he was not technicallyproficient.
He probably took.
According to you, he reallywasn't qualified for that job.
Speaker 2 (09:41):
No, no, it was laugh, it was funny to us when he even
came over, it was hilarious.
Speaker 1 (09:46):
Well, and that's the thing is like well, what message
does it send to everybody else?
Like well, to get promoted here, you really don't need to know
anything.
Speaker 2 (09:54):
Just stand around for 10 years and it could happen
for you.
Oh my God, that's like that'sso, that's so demotivating.
Speaker 1 (10:04):
But I mean think about it.
So in that, in that companythat you work for, like how did
that affect the engagement?
How did that affect how peoplefelt about that company?
Speaker 2 (10:15):
I think that it makes you question the decision
making of others for sure,because it makes you question
the leader over them's decisionmaking.
So in this particular casemaybe the operations manager,
general manager, something likethat you question their decision
making because they put thisperson in position who doesn't
know what they're doing.
Nice person, they have beenaround for 10 years.
But it'd be like takingsomebody's been around 10 years
(10:37):
in accounting and putting themin sales and putting them in a
leadership role in sales, likeas if they they're the same job.
You know they're very differentjobs, even if you've been
around for a decade, you know.
So it was.
It went exactly as you youwould expect.
I feel like him being a niceguy kind of helped, but we kind
of just did what we wanted to dobecause he didn't know what he
(10:58):
was doing.
Speaker 1 (11:00):
That could go so wrong.
We just did what everyone andhe didn't know, yeah he was.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
I mean he was a president, but we would be like
he just didn't know.
It wasn't really fair to him inthat sense.
And but like I said to he,because he I think what did help
him and what could be a greatleadership skill is not coming
in acting like you know.
You know he didn't even pretendlike he did, so that actually
(11:28):
helped him, versus him coming inand acting as if he did know
what he was doing would haveprobably backfired because you
genuinely didn't.
So it actually helped that hewas a friendly guy and I think
that he got by more on hisemotional intelligence, kind of
got him through there.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
So one of the things that I think in this thought
that came to me when you weretalking earlier, but just what
you said is super pivotal is,for me, every leader I have ever
had, I have walked away evenlike, regardless of they were
great, they were terrible, I'vewalked away with something that
I would want to emulate, likesomething that I respected, and
(12:10):
I was like, wow, that's a skillI could leverage, I should grow,
I should, you know, figure outhow to get better at that.
And, equally, there was usuallyalways some element of that is
not something I would ever wantto perpetuate, that's not
something I'd want to do tosomebody else.
That's not a skill or abehavior that I find that I like
(12:36):
in a leader, and so for that,even in that case, right, you're
sitting here and you're likehe's a nice guy, he's got great
emotional intelligence, like hedidn't try to pretend, he didn't
follow the fake it till youmake it motto.
Yeah like he.
So.
So, even in this moment, andwhen you're talking about do as
I do, that guy actually showedup as a pretty good example of
(12:57):
when, in a situation that youdon't have control, how would
you want someone to show up?
Speaker 2 (13:05):
You know it's interesting because I think that
one of the first thing you haveto do is genuinely show up and
be transparent about what you're, what you're, how much
knowledge you may have in thatfield or whatever you're doing,
and let people know that you'rewilling to to learn.
You're not just gonna come hereand just try to dictate because
(13:27):
you don't really know.
You're working with people whohave worked in these departments
, no matter where.
That department may be a lotlonger than you, and there's a
lot that that leaders can learn.
I feel like my I'm in leadershiprole and I feel like I learn
all the time.
So I do feel like you can comein and learn from people.
Just because you may be in amanagement or supervisor role
(13:48):
doesn't mean that you cannotlearn from other human beings.
Everybody's good at differentthings, can really right, so I
feel like I can learn a lot frompeople in other areas.
You know I might be good at afew things, but there's so much
more that we can learn and henever really he didn't really
shy away from that.
Speaker 1 (14:04):
So, when you think about yourself as a leader, have
you ever caught yourself Notliving by the motto of do as I
do?
Speaker 2 (14:16):
I feel like I'm not really because I'm so passionate
about it's like you know this.
I feel like we all have certainthings right that really just
know grind us, so to speak, andand that was one of the things.
So that was one of the thingswhere it was two things actually
.
That was one, and another thingis I wanted to be a hard.
I want to be a hard workermanager for hard workers.
So I'm a hard worker manager.
If you come in and you applyyourself and you're, you're,
(14:40):
you're working hard, you'regonna love work with me.
If you're coming in, you'remore like a slacker, because I
was a hard worker who Work withslackers and management would
just let them get away withmurder and he used to kill us,
to kill our morale, like they'rethis person's not pulling their
weight, you know.
So those were issues, that, twothings that are really keyed in
on that.
When I became you knowleadership and be the first one
(15:02):
out there.
If I'm going to tell them to dosomething, I'm gonna be the
first one out there to do it.
I'm going to lead by thatexample and you'd be surprised
how much better things are.
People kind of fall into linebecause you can hold people to a
certain level of accountability.
When you're doing it yourself,hey, hey, well, I'm actually out
here doing it.
If there's a reason that youmay not want to do it, we can
(15:22):
discuss it.
I'm not like a tiring, I'm notlike a you're going to do this
or else.
I've never been that guy andI've never had to be that guy to
get things done, but it's.
It's a situation where, whenyou are actually doing it
yourself and they see you doingit yourself, they're kind of
doing that math in their headlike well, if this guy's out
there, like yeah, what excuse doI have?
You know?
Speaker 1 (15:44):
So I'm going to fess up like I struggled with that.
I'll give you a story.
And so it wasn't so much that Iwouldn't jump in and do the
work, that was never a question,it was it was setting the
boundaries of taking care ofmyself.
So here's a story, and this wasactually a huge moment for me.
(16:05):
So I had this is soembarrassing so I had a small
team and we were always underthe gun for crazy deliverables
and so you know.
So there was always a lot ofwork happening and there was a
lot of things happening and Ihad gotten like some cold or
(16:26):
like a cough or something, and I, you know, you just muscle
through like you pop a lozenge,you pop some medicine, you show
up, you go to work, obviouslypre COVID, because now you cough
in an office setting and Ithink everybody wants to panic.
Really pre COVID, and so I don'tremember what it was, but
(16:46):
anyway.
So my leader at the time callsme into my office and she sits
down and I'm like what is goingon?
Like I'm so confused.
And she said, kim, how manydays have you been sick?
And I said I don't know.
She's like no, I want you tosit down and I want you to look
(17:07):
at your calendar.
How long have you been sick?
And I had to embarrassly count.
It was like eight days.
I had been coughing and say, ohyeah, it was, it was one.
It was sad that I didn'trealize how badly I call it.
And then she said she's likeokay, she's like, if you, if
this were one of your teammembers, what would you tell
(17:30):
them to do?
And it was like, it was likeshe almost took on like a
kindergarten teacher tone withme and I was like because now I
knew it was like oh, I said,well, I would tell them that
they need to close their laptopand they need to go to urgent
care or something.
Speaker 2 (17:47):
And they need to take care of themselves.
Speaker 1 (17:49):
And she's like mm-hmm , so what kind of example are we
setting right now for your team?
And I was like by you goingthis long without doing that?
And I was.
I was like, well, not a, not agood one.
And so she says so what are wegoing to do now?
(18:11):
What, what, what are you goingto do?
And I said, well, I'm going toleave, I'm going to go to urgent
care.
And she's like and so, as Istarted to pack up, she's like
oh no, the laptop stays here.
She's like turn closed laptop,you can come back tomorrow, but
for the rest of the day, if Isee you sending emails, she's
(18:33):
like no, and it was one of.
It was like a humbling momentbecause I always considered
myself a good leader and I waslike I will do anything, I will
jump in, exactly what you'retalking about.
But it took that moment for meto realize that it wasn't just
getting the work done, it wasalso in how was I taking care of
(18:53):
myself?
Was I the one sending emails,like taking text messages while
I was on vacation, when thetruth was, I didn't have to
because the team could cover it.
But I will never forget that.
I remember.
I still tell that story and, andeven now, like I'm very mindful
of okay, I feel a certain way,do I need to take time off?
(19:15):
But again, she was absolutelyright.
I was like, I was like I waslike a mama hen with them, and
anytime they get sick I wouldsend them home, and but I wasn't
doing it for myself, and so Iwas that leader that I was
referring to.
I was saying no, no, no, youhave the freedom to go do this.
But yet the example I wassetting was one that was very
(19:37):
different and I think, secretly,my team was so grateful I left.
Speaker 2 (19:42):
Because I got, I mean .
Speaker 1 (19:44):
I didn't.
I just didn't notice how sick Iwas because I was so buried in
the work.
So I'm just putting that outthere, that it doesn't.
Also, it doesn't always have tobe about are you doing the work
to.
But also, are you like when wesay work life balance, when we
say self care, those are greatbuzz phrases, but are you
actually?
Is that another place whereyou're do as I do, leadership
(20:07):
versus creating a standard foryourself that's not the same for
your team.
I think that's incrediblyimportant to model that space as
well.
Speaker 2 (20:18):
You bring up a solid point, and one that I feel like,
if you're a leader that caresabout either what you're doing
or who you're doing it with,you're going to struggle with
that.
The first job we feel like wehave to do is be present.
Right, that's the first thingwe've had.
We got to be present.
Storms, snow, rain, heat,sleets, it doesn't matter, hell,
(20:40):
we have to be present and I'vealways provided myself on that.
And it's so funny that youbring this story up, because I
got told that three weeks ago, Ithink the actual time.
Speaker 1 (20:54):
This would, at least for me, this was like five years
ago.
Speaker 2 (20:57):
Yeah, this happened to me three weeks ago.
I was I missed, I was going tomiss a meeting.
And I asked because I wasscheduled to work in event the
same day and I was going to missbecause we had meetings twice a
week.
And I, after like four or fivedays, I was called in and I
spoke to my boss and I told herwell, I'm going to just skip out
(21:20):
on this meeting, I'm notfeeling great, but I'll be there
for the event.
And she was like, oh, it's beenlike five days, like maybe you
should go to urgent care.
You know what?
I'm going to urgent care.
I went.
I went the next day.
But, sometimes you need peopleto tell you stuff like that,
right?
Speaker 1 (21:39):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (21:40):
It's.
It's hard because From a do asI say or do what do as I do
standpoint you always want, likeyou're the hardest working
person here, I'm here, I'mavailable, I'm on time, I'm
punctual, I'm here for myteammates If they need me for
emotional support or for actualsupport in other ways.
(22:01):
But you can't do any of that ifyou're barely upright right,
like if you're Well and it'sfunny.
Speaker 1 (22:08):
So a prior episode we were talking with Angela Tate
about servant leadership andthis idea that you know the
ideal leader you want is who isa servant leader, who is there
to serve yes, grow the peoplearound them.
It's not like a power dynamic,and one of the things we talk
about so importantly is the onlyway you can show up and serve
others is if you actually aretaking care of yourself and do
(22:32):
you know what your boundariesare.
But I think it's hard.
I mean, you know, I think aboutthat, like when I, when you
have teams like you are sofocused on how to.
Well, if you're a good leader,you're very focused on what is
my team getting?
What they need?
And you know she made ananalogy, even to parenting,
about like you get so focused ontrying to take care of other
(22:54):
people that you forget that yourname should be on that list too
.
So for anybody listening, don'tfeel bad, you're not alone,
that's why this is called.
We've all done it Again, wantingpeople to feel seen, understood
, so, but for you, so in thatmoment.
So how like?
So clearly you were notfollowing your own mantra, Right
(23:17):
, if people are like checkingyou?
So how are you?
How do you get more mindful?
What do you do to be moremindful of?
Am I following my mantra in allaspects of my leadership?
Speaker 2 (23:29):
It's hard in that sense because I don't really
ever, when I'm thinking aboutleadership from my perspective,
it's only team focused.
I'm not I mean, I'm notincluding myself in there, you
know.
So in order to take that stepback, you got to kind of step
outside of yourself and thenlook at, you know, and the whole
situation for me, I was justlike it's a little cough, I'm
(23:51):
going to come in, I gotta do.
You know, I'm always there formy team.
I'm not going to sit at, sit athome while my team is out there
doing whatever they're doing.
You know, you think that right,and and it's funny because if
my boss had never said that, canI just I don't I've probably
been there getting getting allkinds of people sick.
(24:12):
I mean, who knows, it's justnot something.
I just didn't think about up tothat point, because I just
think about just the job.
You know, whatever, whatever ittakes to get a certain job done
and to make sure my teammatesfeel like they were able to
execute to the best of theirabilities, and I'm giving them
(24:32):
everything to do so, and that'sall I'm thinking about usually
at the time I'm.
It's rare I've had an eventwhere I got cut on my hand and
they had to send me home.
They were like your, your, yourhand is bleeding, won't stop,
you got to go home.
I'm like, no, only have an hourleft that I can.
I can get through it.
You know, sometimes it takeshindsight can't really write to
(24:55):
look back and be like what wasthat thinking?
Like my hand was bleeding.
I could, I think it did it thatlast hour without me.
But I'm like I gotta be herewith them and I gotta, you know,
do this, do this to the end.
I'm staying to the end of theday.
I'm going to be the last personto leave, type thing, you know,
because you get so used todoing that.
But I do think that it probablydoes help to try to and I know
(25:16):
it could be difficult, becauseit's difficult for me to try to
step outside of yourself andlook at yourself and see if
you're actually doing what'sbest for for everybody.
And showing up sick or nottaking care of yourself, even
from just a mental healthstandpoint, can really cause.
Sometimes people just need amental health thing, right,
sometimes not even a sickness.
Sometimes you need a mentalhealth day and being able to
(25:39):
take those those that time foryourself is beneficial to others
.
But that's been a learningprocess because I'm so like I
gotta be there.
I gotta be first one in, lastone out types.
You know, you all the stuffthat you say.
Speaker 1 (25:52):
Well, and it's, it's so funny because I coach, I
mentor to the whole idea thatyou can't serve from an empty
vessel, and it's, it's theanalogy, it's the thing of when
you're on the plane and they'relike you know, the mask goes on
you first.
Don't put the mask on your teamfirst.
You got to put the mask on youfirst because if you aren't,
(26:16):
okay, if you aren't and I'm even100%, I mean I don't think
anybody shows up on any day,actually 100%, yes, but like, if
you're not showing up as thebest you can on that day, then
you're not serving anybody,you're not helping anybody.
And to your point, am I makingpeople sick?
Am I slowing down the process?
(26:36):
You know if, if I am not in theright headspace, I could
actually derail what we're doingSimply by me being my not so
great self.
And so for me and I'm notsaying I have it right, but I
think it's always coming back toasking the question like where
(26:59):
am I on the list?
And I've got to make sure I'mtowards the top, so, and then
again it's not saying that I'mnot going to not show up and do
what needs to be done for myteam, but also asking like, how
do you feel today?
Are you okay?
And if you and if I am notfeeling well, like gut checking,
like how long have I not feltwell?
Because, again, it's that wholeconcept of not being present
(27:21):
with yourself, like, especiallyif you're so externally focused,
it's easy to neglect aches,pains.
You know, I think about somebodyused to work with and she used
to talk about the fact that shehad headaches, constantly,
chronic headaches, and she endedup leaving the company and
going to another role and wewere chatting and she said you
know what was shocking to me?
She said I looked in my bag andI realized I didn't have to go
(27:44):
by ibuprofen because I hadn'thad a headache in changing.
So like she wasn't even awarethat the role she was in was so
stressful for her that she waspopping them like tic-tacs just
to get through a day, and ittook her changing jobs to even
realize it.
So it's like those kinds ofthings how do you become aware
(28:07):
of how you were showing up?
I think this is where you know Iused to advise this and I tried
to do this with my team as welltoo as best you can, but you
have to have the rightrelationship.
It's to allow people tochallenge you a little bit and
be able to call you on it and belike um, that's a lot of blood
coming from your hand, reggie.
That's exactly what happened?
(28:28):
Can y'all, can you just go,cause the blood is freaking
people out Like that, butfeeling you have to have that
relationship where your team cansay, you know?
I still wondered like, didsomeone on my team go tell my
boss like, hey, kim is a?
Speaker 2 (28:43):
walk-in mess.
You need to talk to her Cansomebody go talk to her.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
And it was so funny because I ended up on like, oh,
ton of antibiotics and oh yeah,I was sick, I was really sick
and but I'm grateful thatsomebody stopped me and forced
me to see myself differently,Because I was I definitely was
in my own little fog of go do,do, do and not necessarily.
(29:09):
And again, you're not showingup as the leader you want to be.
You just don't even realize itin the moment.
Speaker 2 (29:14):
So yeah, it's, it's difficult, and I think you bring
up a solid point that I don'tfeel like can be glossed over,
and that's creating anenvironment where your team
feels comfortable to speak toyou.
And I don't look at that as anydifferent, even though there is
different dynamics thancreating an environment where my
daughter can it feelscomfortable telling me anything.
(29:35):
Is you create an environmentwhere your teammates feel
comfortable telling you anythingother, cause it's not like a
lot of times we know, into theseplaces we work at, they're
telling each other.
You know they might not bemaking it to you, but they're
talking amongst themselves.
So you want to be privy tothose conversations.
And if you only way I feel likeI can be privy to those
(29:55):
conversations is creating anenvironment where somebody
doesn't feel like that kind ofbehavior will be punitive or be
they'll be disciplined for it orI'll snap at them.
You know how dare you questionanything?
I want all the questions, youknow.
I want all of the.
I feel like if you are a leaderof other strong people or
leaders themselves, then youshould be able to stress, test
(30:17):
your perspectives and opinionsand not feel so and not feel
insecure about that.
You know, if you feel like youhave a solid point, defend your
point and if somebody else comesup with a better one, I'm very
quick to move off my my originalpoint.
If somebody presents a betterone, I'm out of here.
That point's out of here.
You know so.
But I feel like that comes withthe environment that you set.
(30:37):
That's why I love being inleadership so much, because I've
been able to set a certainenvironment for me and my
teammates to where we're all onequal footing.
Here.
I'm going to make the finaldecision, but I'm a big
consensus guy.
I'm going to really listen todifferent perspectives and
stress test my own perspectives,my own preconceived notions, to
see if if it is in the rightway or it is not.
(30:58):
And I believe that you can alsobenefit from that as well,
hugely your career.
Speaker 1 (31:05):
Well, as we are rounding out our little
conversation, if there were onepiece of advice you'd want to
give our listeners out there,what is the one thing you'd want
to leave them with?
Speaker 2 (31:18):
The one thing.
I'd have wanted to leave themwith one piece of advice I would
say to if you're not in aleadership perspective, you're
not.
Or if you're not in aleadership position, I should
say the one thing I would say isto pay attention to what you
may may want to later on in life, because everything doesn't
(31:39):
happen right then.
You may be at a lower levelright now and, in the sense of
the company, not as a humanbeing.
Probably there's alwaysintrinsic value for a human
being.
So you're not as a human being,but maybe you might not be in
any company where you want to be.
It might not even be at thiscompany.
Maybe you're going to gosomeplace else.
Listen to where, listen to yourgut about where you want to be
(32:03):
like, listen to where you wantto be.
So if you are having, there'sgot to be leaderships around you
somewhere right, we all haveleaders we've dealt with from
point A to point B in ourcareers.
Be cognizant of that.
Take what you want to keep fromthem and bottle it up so that
when it's your chance to affectpeople the way that you want to
affect them, you still have thatthere, because that's something
(32:26):
that's possible for every humanbeing to do Like, even if you
aren't where you want to betoday and you see somebody who
is, you can take things that youwant to take from them, and one
day it could be 10 or 15 yearsdown the line You'll be able to
action that and cause.
That's how it happened for me.
Speaker 1 (32:44):
Yeah, I think that's great advice and I also think
apply what you can today.
So of the things you see, andyou like, you don't have to have
some title to show up as aleader in your life, in your
work.
How can you start applyingthings so that it becomes who
you naturally are?
So, again, once you get to thatleadership, that titled place,
(33:07):
it's now just who you are.
It's not like you have to, it'sa checklist.
It's just how you view andapproach life.
I think that's really critical.
That's really great advice.
So I really enjoyed ourconversation.
I'm so grateful that you havejoined us to talk about this,
because this is so interesting,cause I think we all have great
(33:28):
intentions of showing up asthese amazing people, and
sometimes even the best of usmiss the mark, and that's okay.
It all comes back to what isyour intention and how do you
continue to grow and evolve, tocontinue to try to be that
leader we all wanna be.
So we're gonna have it in theshow notes, but if for people
(33:51):
who want to know more about you,where is the one place that
they should definitely go checkyou out?
Speaker 2 (33:56):
Check me out at reginatlcom and you can also
look for Reginatel the show onall the streaming platforms
Spotify, apple podcasts, googlepodcasts, stitcher but all that
is at reginatlcom If you make itover there.
There's a lot of differentlinks and stuff there.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
Awesome.
Like I said, all of this willbe in the show notes so you can
learn all about him, and we'llhave his bio and all the fun
stuff.
So thank you so much, regie.
I really appreciate you havingus.
You have coming on the showwith us.
Speaker 2 (34:28):
Oh, absolutely Always amazing.
Our pre-show was amazing, theshow was amazing.
You're batting a thousand rightnow, kimmy.
Thanks for having me.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (34:41):
Thank you for joining me on today's episode of We've
All Done it.
I know your time is valuable.
That's why I am for as littleBS as possible.
Hopefully today's episode hassparked some new ideas for you.
If you would like to learn moreabout the We've All Done it
leadership framework or how towork with me, please check out
my website atkimberleyjbenoitcom.
Until next time,
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.