2nd Annual Marriage Helper Christmas

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This episode was taken from our 2nd Annual Very Merry Marriage Helper Christmas.

Merry Christmas from all of us at Marriage Helper. We hope you leave with a little more hope after listening to this episode ❤️🎄

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Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
Merry Christmas and we are so happy that you're here
.
My name is Kimberly.
I'm joined today with Dr JoeBeam.

Speaker 2 (00:08):
Ho, ho ho.

Speaker 1 (00:09):
Our very own marriage helper.
Santa, that's what you shouldhave worn.

Speaker 2 (00:14):
My Santa suit.
I actually do have one, I know.
But I'm going from here to havemy last radiation treatment for
my cancer, the last radiationtreatment I have to take.
So it's a good day for me and Ididn't want to go in there in
my Santa suit.

Speaker 1 (00:28):
You know, I think they would have loved it.

Speaker 2 (00:31):
They might have loved it.
There would have been peoplewith cameras everywhere on their
phones saying this idiot cameto have his therapy in the same
place we did our treatment.
They call it radiationtreatment.
They would have loved it.

Speaker 1 (00:45):
They would have loved it.
But either way, we are heretoday to answer some of your
questions, and something superexciting that we're doing on our
special Christmas edition ofour marriage helper live show
here on YouTube is we are givingaway one of our solo spouse
workshops.
Now, for you who have been inthe Marriage Helper community,

(01:06):
you know the value of this.
This is a $1,750 giveaway.
It's three days live in one ofour solo spouse workshops,
whether you choose to do theonline one, or if you end up
winning and you are a man, youcould come to one of our
in-person men's only solo spouseevents.

Speaker 2 (01:26):
Right, we've got one of those coming up in March, I
believe we do.
I'll be doing that one and nooffense to anybody anywhere,
ever because I do couplesworkshops et cetera, but those
are my favorite workshops to dothe husbands only.
It's amazing what happens inthose and so if you're a guy and
you win this, you might want tolook at coming in that one.
It'll be amazing.

Speaker 1 (01:45):
Yeah.
So it's a great giveaway andyou know what, throughout maybe
to some of the questions or someof the things that happen, we
may give away some marriagehelper swag or marriage helper
goodies, and Jason, our producer, had no idea I was going to say
that he's just going with it.

Speaker 2 (02:03):
So every time you do that, I'll go ho, ho, ho.
That's awesome.
I think that's perfect.

Speaker 1 (02:07):
I think that's perfect, okay, well, remember
there's the link in the chat Ifyou're joining us here live,
which is the only way you'll beable to register, but be sure
that you fill out thatregistration before 1230,
because we'll be beginning to doour elves will be beginning to
do all of the things to pick whothe winner is going to be
before we end at one o'clocktoday, and that's 1230 Central.

(02:29):
Time USA Central Time.
In the good old US of A, whereit is 60 degrees and not snowing
, which is the way we like it.

Speaker 2 (02:37):
No, it's not.
But we're in Tennessee and wemay get some snow January,
february.

Speaker 1 (02:42):
But right now it's 56 , with a high today of 60.
Some snow January, february,but right now it's 56, with a
high today of 60.
And I love it.
Okay, here's the first questionwe're going to answer today.
The question says how can Irebuild trust and reconcile with
my spouse?
She filed for divorce two yearsago, dragged me through
countless motions and falseallegations, tried to restrict

(03:03):
my activities with the kids andnow withdrew the divorce motion,
stating that she wants toreconcile for the kids and also
because the legal system is bad.
I still see a lot of red flags.
Yet, as a Christian and afather, I have a heart that
beats for her and the kids andultimately I want to save the
marriage.
I would like to do the workshop, but at this time I feel like

(03:24):
I'm absolutely unsafe around her.
So the first question, or thequestion that he said, is how
can I rebuild trust andreconcile with my wife?

Speaker 2 (03:34):
Well, let's answer that last question where he says
I don't think I'd feel safe.
Let me assure you of this Ifyou decide to come to the
couple's workshop and she comeswith you, you will be safe
because of the fact that we'llmake sure you are.
It's one of the things we do.
Safety is a high, high factorfor us Now, not just physically
safe although I think youprobably were referring to being

(03:56):
emotionally safe but in ourworkshop we don't allow anybody
to say anything negative aboutthe spouse, and so if she, for
example, started to seesomething bad about you, we
would gently but firmly say no,no, and here we don't bash our
spouses, we talk only aboutourselves.
Now, I can't guarantee that shewould do that at night in the

(04:16):
hotel room, if you stay in thesame room, but I'll guarantee
you that in the workshop it'llbe the safest place you've ever
been, where you can say what youtruly, genuinely feel, as long
as it's not bashing her, and shecan say what she genuinely and
truly feels, as long as it's notbashing you, and we'll be the
protectors of that.
So if you're afraid to comebecause you feel unsafe unless

(04:40):
there's some physical things,some physical danger you're not
telling us about, then I'msuggesting that you will be safe
if you come Now to the questionitself, we talk about a system
called calculative trust.
You see, one of the things we dothat kind of sets us apart is
that we don't just study theresearch about men and women and

(05:00):
parents and children.
We also study relationshipsbetween businesses and we study
all kinds of things that seembizarre to other people in our
business.
Because what are you readingthat for?
What are you looking for overthere?
Because it's amazing how manyrelationship principles we can
find in places other thanresearch about relationships.
And so calculative trust is atrust where that okay, we're

(05:26):
going to build a system where Ican trust you.
Now I can't go into all thedetails about how that could be
done because it's prettywidespread, but when Alice and I
were getting back together andshe wanted to trust me, it was
okay, you handle all the money.
If you handle all the money,you know I'm not off doing some
terrible thing out there.
If you handle all the money,you know I'm not off doing some
terrible thing out there.
And if I were going to be late,I called her and told her

(05:47):
exactly what I was doing exactlywhere I was and when I would be
there In other words, I forabout 10 months to a year.
I made sure that it was almostas if I were a teenager being
checked on.
Now, you can't live like thatthe rest of your life, okay, but

(06:11):
I voluntarily did that becauseof the fact that I wanted her to
feel safe, and we call thatcalculative trust.
You calculate away a systemwith these things that are going
to be done so that you can feeltrust, and if your spouse says
to you, well, that means thenyou don't trust me, the answer
would be that's correct, I don't, but I want to.
And because I want to, let'sbuild this system where I can
feel secure.
Now, you can learn more aboutthat in our workshops, kimberly.

(06:32):
Do we have anything oncalculative trust in our
toolkits?
I don't remember.

Speaker 1 (06:37):
No, not at this point .
But you know what, if they wantto book a call and learn more
about how our workshop packagecan help, then Jason will be
putting the link in the chat tohow people can have a
conversation with someone on ourteam and see what the best
entry point is for them.
Okay, excellent, yeah,wonderful.

Speaker 2 (06:51):
Speak of the real person on a marriage helper team
, an actual, real person, and soremember, it's a system of
calculative trust, not just okay, let's get it back together,
we're going to be okay.
No, there's a process to dothis, and also in our membership
.
I think we have in ourmembership what's the name of

(07:11):
this thing ExploringReconciliation.
I'm sorry, I'm 149 years oldExploring Reconciliation, but
they have to go to the workshopbefore they can get to that one.
Right, yeah?

Speaker 1 (07:21):
Okay, yeah, that's right, because in our workshop
it's the best opportunity forpeople to truly experience the
deep change that they're lookingfor.
Good, right.
So so many times people justwant to try and do it on their
own or sweep things under therug and say, well, you know what
, like in this situation he'slikely.
Or a lot of people in hissituation say, well, now she

(07:41):
wants to reconcile, so I guessthings are kind of better, maybe
I don't need to do as much work, maybe we don't need to do as
much work because, kind of the,the gas, the pressure has been
taken off of that gas pedal fromhis side a little bit.
He wanted to save the marriagefor two years.
Now his wife is starting toturn back back around and he's
beginning to question things orhe's beginning to think maybe

(08:04):
this isn't what we need, butthis is the time to double down.

Speaker 2 (08:07):
Yes, based on my experience, this workshop is
what you need at this point.
Now, her motivations, accordingto what you said I don't know
her, but you said hermotivations are number one.
She still loves her childrenand wants what's best for them.
That's a powerful, powerfulmotivation, and many of the
things we discuss in theworkshop can also be used in

(08:28):
relationship to your children.
And the other was that she'sfrustrated by the legal system.
What that typically means andI'm not sure about your wife is
it's not turning out like Ithought it was going to.
It's not going the way Ithought it was going to go.
In other words, I'm now facingsome reality and I'm not happy
with what reality is Not quiteas strong and powerful a

(08:48):
motivation as about the children, but still a good motivation,
and this is, as far as we'reconcerned, this is a good sign.

Speaker 1 (08:56):
Absolutely.
Let's go to another question.
Okay, so this question says Iwas attracted to my wife because
I saw in her what I wanted tobe like.
I found that our marriage holdon.
I found, as our marriage wenton it wasn't that attractive

(09:17):
anymore.
Now I find myself wanting herto be more like me.
That's a problem.
How do I allow my wife to bewho she is?
It seems like this would bevery easy to do, but it's not.
I find myself internallyjudging her because she didn't
react the way I would have.
This affects how I feel abouther, and this isn't fair to her.

(09:39):
Well, at least he realizes thatthis isn't fair to her.

Speaker 2 (09:42):
You're the psychologist.

Speaker 1 (09:43):
You know I was laughing because I I use this
example sometimes when I'mtalking about attraction and
talking about the four differentways, ways we're attracted to
people, and I talk about how,when Rob and I first started
dating, one of the thingsspiritually that attracted me to
him was how generous he was.
He was always getting meals forthe homeless, paying for people
to go on mission trips.
Getting meals for the homelesspaying for people to go on

(10:07):
mission trips, things like that.
Then we got married.

Speaker 2 (10:10):
And then his generosity became something I
didn't like.

Speaker 1 (10:11):
Now, he's giving away your money.
Now he's giving away ours.
I was like, wait a minute, youneed to think about this
situation more logically, likethe way I would think about this
situation right, which iscontempt, thinking I'm better
than you, you are inferior to me, and if you would just do
things the way I want you to dothings, everything would be
better.
And it's control and it leadsto having contempt towards our

(10:35):
spouse.
So that's why I startedlaughing.
How do I allow my wife to bewho she is?
Well, let's just go back tosome of the basics of this.
We are attracted to people inone of four areas, and this
attraction is what begins theprocess of us falling in love
physically, intellectually,emotionally and spiritually.
We call it the pies ofattraction at marriage helper.

(10:58):
And so physically that's kindof self explanatory we're
attracted to people who we findphysically attractive.
Intellectually, we're attractedto people who we enjoy having
conversations with, and thatit's not just about the bills or
things that we find boring, butthings that-.

Speaker 2 (11:14):
Actually interchange with each other.

Speaker 1 (11:16):
Yeah, absolutely.
This is the basis of friendshipas falling in love goes on.
Then we have emotionalattraction, which is that we're
attracted to people who evokepositive emotions within us.
When Rob and I were dating, itwas the long phone calls that we
would have at night, the textmessages he would send me, or
that I would wake up to eachmorning when he was going to fly

(11:38):
way early and I was getting upto go to classes in college, and
I would have these beautifultext messages from him, or
flowers that would show up whenI would come back to my dorm.
And then, spiritually, we'reattracted to people who we see
as having a similar or betterthan beliefs and values as we do
.
And so, as I said, like thegenerosity part, that was a

(11:59):
spiritual part of attraction,that I perceived it to be better
, that he was better at thatthan I was, and so we are
attracted to those things.
But then it is not uncommonthat once you get married and
start living with someone andyou see them day in and day out,
that some of those things thatwere so endearing when we were
dating become some of ourbiggest points of frustration

(12:21):
when we're married.

Speaker 2 (12:22):
Irritation, irritation.

Speaker 1 (12:25):
I don't know what it is in the wedding cake, do you?
No, it's something.

Speaker 2 (12:30):
You know, Alice and I were so poor, we just had
cornbread and it was in theSouth, so you dipped it in like
peas.
No, you don't dip it in thepeas.
You dip it in what's called thepot liquor, which is the liquid
around the peas there you goyeah, that was your wedding cake
, that's country For sure.

Speaker 1 (12:49):
And so now I find myself wanting her to be more
like me.
Well, because you probably haveit in your mind that if she was
more like you, you would haveless fights, that you would get
along better, that you may bemore attracted to her.
Maybe you love working out andfocusing on your health and she
doesn't, and that's become asticking point in your mind.
But where it's all coming andall falling apart is if you

(13:13):
believe that there's a list ofthings that she has to do or a
criteria that she needs to meetin order for her to be accepted
and loved by you, then it's notunconditional love, it is
conditional love.
And, as you said, I find myselfinternally judging her because
she didn't react the way I wouldhave.
This affects how I feel abouther.

(13:34):
Yes, because you areconditionally loving her.
So, joe, how do we turn thisaround?
Stop it.

Speaker 2 (13:40):
Stop it Next question .

Speaker 1 (13:42):
Stop it, stop it Next question.

Speaker 2 (13:46):
What I mean by that is this If you're truly going to
love any human being and if youhave children, this is
applicable to them too If you'regoing to love any human being,
you have to accept that personas he or she is, which means you
have to accept you as you areand she has to accept herself as
she is, but you also have toaccept each other.
You say, but what does thatmean?

(14:11):
We don't ever need to grow orget better?
Sure, yeah, everybody needs togrow and get better, but the
acceptance is not, as Kimberlysaid, conditioned on that or
based on that.
And so I would suggest, myfriend, that you stop and ask
yourself am I being selfish bywanting her to be, think, do and
feel the way I do?
Because if that's the wayyou're going to love her, then
what's going to happen is she'sgoing to build a wall against

(14:31):
you and she'll paint a pictureon your side of the wall where
she pretends to be what you want.
I'm not saying that shenecessarily will do that, but
she likely will do that, and youwon't even know who she is
anymore.
To understand another person,you have to accept them as they
are.
To truly love them.
You have to accept them as theyare.
And you say how can I do this?
This is a choice on your part,my friend.

(14:52):
Stop judging.
Rather than looking for thethings you would have done
differently or you wish you haddone differently, start focusing
on the good things, the goodthoughts she has, the good
actions that she commits, thegood behavior that she
demonstrates, et cetera, etcetera.
Focus on those things, becauseyou see your mind's focusing on
the negative and therefore allthat's going to come out is

(15:13):
negative when it comes to her.
And if you have children, whenit comes to them, focus on the
positives.
They're different than you.
That might be the best thing onearth, because none of us, not
one, is perfect.
So focus on the positive, myfriend, absolutely.

Speaker 1 (15:32):
I want to remind everyone that we are giving away
a solo spouse workshop, soremember to use the link that is
posted and pinned in the chat.
The registration is open until1230.
So we have nine more minutes,by my clock, that you are able
to do that.
I don't want to veer us toomuch off track, but I'm also

(15:54):
looking at the comments that arecoming through on the YouTube
live and someone just asked aquestion.
We were talking aboutconditional versus unconditional
.
Someone asked is the marriagecovenant conditional or
unconditional?
I would have to know more aboutwhat they mean.
Well, I think what they mean islike, when you say I do, does

(16:14):
that come with conditions?
Or do you say I do throughthick and thin, no matter what?

Speaker 2 (16:19):
I think it comes with certain expectations, without a
doubt.
And if you want to putconditions on it, well, think
about the fact that if one wantto put conditions on it, well,
think about the fact that if oneis unfaithful to the other,
then that is a violation of themarriage covenant.
So inherent in any covenant isthe fact that you will be
faithful to the covenant, thatyou will try to fulfill the
covenant and that you will notpurposely violate the covenant.

(16:40):
So that's kind of inherent inthe idea of covenant itself.
Now, if you want to call that acondition, I don't see it as a
condition.
I see it as an aspect.
It's what is.
It's what's supposed to be.

Speaker 1 (16:53):
But unfortunately too many people in our culture and
society don't take it as acovenant or as a commitment.

Speaker 2 (17:01):
No, as a matter of fact, and I've said this many
times, so forgive me, I won'ttake but a minute to do it here.
When people say, don't youthink communication the most
important thing in a marriage?
And I'll say it's important,but not the most important and
the one that I have finallysettled on after so many years
of working with so many peoplethe most important thing in a
relationship commitment.

(17:23):
I'm going to be here in a goodtime.
It's going to be here in thebad times, because it's not
always going to be good.
I'm going to be here when we'reboth perfect.
I'm going to be here when oneof us is not, and we're going to
figure out how to do this.
So, commitment covenant I likethe idea that people are making
marriage covenants now and acovenant is like a contract.
So if you want to call itconditions, okay, but just like
a contract.
This is the expectation.

(17:44):
This is how you fulfill thiscontract.
You're going to be here for me.
I'm going to be here for you.
We're going to love each otheras best we can, even though that
will vary based on what'shappening on a given day and
we're going to be committed tobe with each other, unless a
flagrant violation of thecovenant occurs.

Speaker 1 (17:59):
Let's answer another question that listeners have
submitted.
I often hear work on your piesfor yourself not to get your
spouse back.
This seems easier said thandone.
How do you actually shift yourmindset for that to become a
reality?

Speaker 2 (18:18):
You're the pies expert.

Speaker 1 (18:19):
You always say that, but you're the one who created
pies originally.

Speaker 2 (18:23):
I didn't create it, I just named it.
I put together the system.
But yes, you're correct.

Speaker 1 (18:31):
This is also a.
I mean, how do you shift yourmindset for that to become a
reality?
Well, I don't know that.
You shift your mindset first.
I think the mindset shifthappens over time.
But what you need to start andstop doing on the front end is
stop looking to your spouse toand how they're reacting to you

(18:53):
to determine whether or notyou're going.
I'm talking about the pies.
I did one just last week and acommon question that I get is
but I'm thinking about stoppingworking on my pies because it's
not working to bring my spouseback.
Well, clearly, you're like, themetric of success that you're

(19:16):
using is whether or not yourspouse is talking to you more,
engaging, friendly with you.
Whatever that might be, andthat's the wrong metric.

Speaker 2 (19:25):
That's right.

Speaker 1 (19:26):
So you need to stop that first and foremost.
So the alternative like, whatis the alternative?
Yeah, to stop working onbecoming the best you can in
those four areas.
That's not the alternative.

Speaker 2 (19:39):
The way you measure success with pies is what it's
doing for you, that's right.

Speaker 1 (19:44):
It's really about self-esteem, self-confidence,
self-worth there's so many ofthose things.
I mean just as a general metric, and then if you want to look
at metrics for each of the onesindividually I mean for pies you
begin looking at how wellyou're sleeping.
You can begin looking at howmuch you're exercising.
If weight is important to you,then you can measure whether
you're gaining or losing weight.

(20:04):
Like you can make metrics basedon the areas you want to grow
in in each areas of the pies, tosee how you are growing in each
area.
But there is no metric thatshould include.
Well, my husband smiled at metoday.
Therefore, I should keepworking on my pies.

Speaker 2 (20:20):
Right or any other human being.
You don't do it for your mom,you don't do it for your dad,
you don't do it for your bestfriend, who is always nagging
you.
You do it only for you, becausethat's the measure of success.

Speaker 1 (20:31):
That's right Now.
The caveat part to this is thatemotional attraction when I
work on emotional attraction,there's an intrinsic part of it
that's going to depend on how Imake other people feel.

Speaker 2 (20:44):
Yes.

Speaker 1 (20:45):
So in that sense, there is kind of one part of the
pies that you do see, that youdo kind of gauge another
person's reaction, but it's notto see if the pies as a whole
are working.
It's looking okay withemotional attraction.
I want to spend more time withmy son because we feel very
distant.
Using this as an example,instead of a, instead of a

(21:06):
spouse, I want to spend moretime with my son because he's
going through a hard time.
We feel very distant.
So what are some things thatcould evoke emotions with him,
within him he would enjoyfeeling.
What are things that I can dowith him to see if we can have
some more time together, if hemight open up more?
So in that sense, you mighthave a metric.

Speaker 2 (21:24):
But that's a secondary metric.
The primary metric in emotionalis you healing your own
emotions?
Do I have peace?
Do I have joy in my heart?
Those kinds?

Speaker 1 (21:37):
of things, have I let go of anger and forgiven, and
forgiven where needed and let goof resentment.
That has to be the first step.

Speaker 2 (21:43):
It has to be the first step and then you can
start looking at how to apply toother people.
Now one last thing very quickly, before we go to the next
question.
That's this you said it seemsthey're not working.
Listen, when your spouse getsangry because you're doing the
pies or starts ignoring you morebecause you're doing the pies
almost always, that means you'remessing up their plans.

(22:04):
You see, they have justified notbeing with you.
They've justified the way theytreat you.
They've justified leaving you.
They've justified being withsomebody else or whatever it is
they are doing.
They have justified that basedon a picture in their mind that
they have of you.
And when that's part of theirjustification, and when you
start changing, becoming better,you screw that up, because the

(22:28):
picture they had of you in theirmind is giving them the
justification to do what they'redoing.
Now.
There's becoming a betterperson, physically,
intellectually, emotionally,spiritually.
It messes up their plan andthat hurts them because it's
messing up what they want to doand that leads to anger, and
that's when they'll start beingrude or calling you more names
or giving you more of the coldshoulder.
Actually, what it means is itis working and the reason

(22:52):
they're reacting negatively toit is because it's messing up
their plan, but it is workingbecause it means you are
becoming the better you, andthat's the ultimate goal.

Speaker 1 (23:03):
So work on your pies for yourself, not to get your
spouse back.
You do that by stopping lookingat what your spouse is doing or
how they're responding to youas the metric or gauge of
whether or not working on yourpies is working.
Working on your pies is thebest thing to do for you bar
none, regardless of what yourspouse does or how they react,

(23:24):
and so the alternative is to notto stop working on becoming
your best self.
Yeah, that's not it.
That's not it.
All right, let's go to the nextquestion.
As a reminder, there is oneminute left.
Registration shuts off in oneminute.
The winner will be drawn and wewill announce it right at the
end.
So in about 30 minutes we'll beannouncing, or maybe even about

(23:47):
25 minutes, we'll be announcingwho the winner is.
So be sure you stick around.
Short and sweet, how can I letmy husband know that I know of
his indiscretions?

Speaker 2 (23:59):
Now do you realize?
You said husbands.

Speaker 1 (24:01):
Husband how Okay.

Speaker 2 (24:03):
Okay, all right.

Speaker 1 (24:04):
If there are multiple husbands, choose one.

Speaker 2 (24:06):
Did you say husbands?
I don't know, because thatwould be a totally different
question.

Speaker 1 (24:11):
How can I let my singular one husband know that I
know of his indiscretions?

Speaker 2 (24:17):
See, folks, it's the treatment for the cancer.
I've lost all sense.
All right, so here, think aboutit this way it's according to
how you know, if you knowbecause of the fact that you
violated his privacy, yousneaked into his phone, you
hired a private detective tofollow him or put some GPS thing
hidden in his car, whatever itmight be, in other words, if

(24:38):
you've sneaked around to findout how to do that, and then you
say I know you're having theaffair.
And he says how do you know?
And the only honest answer isgoing to be well, I looked into
your phone or whatever.
Don't expect him to go.
Oh, my goodness, I'm caught.
I need to repent and do better.
Almost always, the reaction isgoing to happen, and we've been

(24:59):
watching this for 30 years.
Almost always it's going to bean attack on you.
How dare you look into my phone?
How dare you have me followed?
How dare you?
How dare you, how dare you?
And so, if that's what you'regoing to tell them, that you
know, I don't think it's goingto come out to your advantage.
Now you can say I'm prettyconvinced you're having an
affair.

(25:19):
I know that you're doing thisbecause I feel it in my heart.
Now he's going to deny it, he'sgoing to lie.
That's what almost all peopledo when they get caught doing
something they shouldn't do.
Now, if you know it throughsome other fashion, that you're
willing to tell him, like I knowbecause your best friend called
me and told me, now his angeris going to be directed toward
his best friend.
It's going to be different thanif you say I called your best

(25:42):
friend and he told me, thenagain it's going to be anger at
you.
No, your best friend called meand told me, then anger is going
to be directed at the bestfriend.
So always look at the source.
Now, when you tell, if you'regoing to tell your husband or
your wife for that matter, ifyou're listening try not to do
it in an accusatory matter, eventhough that's what you want to
do.
You want to say I found outwhat you're.

(26:05):
It's a whole lot better to sayI just need to talk to you about
the hurt I feel Because I havebeen made aware that you're
cheating on me, or that you'regambling away all the money, or
that you're using cocainesecretly, or whatever it might
be.
If you start off with, let metell you about the deep hurt, I
feel, because I found that thenyou have a greater chance of

(26:28):
them being honest with you.
If you attack, you have alesser chance of them being
honest with you.
Now I realize it may sound thatwe're asking, like you, to be
superhuman, and it almost is,but if you can do it that way,
you've got a whole lot betterchance.

Speaker 1 (26:46):
Let's answer the next question, so this one.

Speaker 2 (26:49):
Oh, it's closed right .

Speaker 1 (26:51):
It is closed.
Time's up.

Speaker 2 (26:53):
Registration is closed.

Speaker 1 (26:55):
Time is up.
We'll announce the winner inabout 23 minutes.

Speaker 2 (26:58):
And if you're watching a later replay of this,
it's closed.

Speaker 1 (27:04):
It is closed.
It was closed for you from thebeginning.
How do you tell the differencebetween treating your reluctant
spouse with kindness andminimizing pushes versus being
an enabler?
I end up being my husband'ssafety net, financially as well
as emotionally, but find it hardto say no, since I know that it

(27:25):
would be a push.
How do you tell the differencebetween treating your reluctant
spouse with kindness andminimizing pushes versus when
you're becoming an enabler?

Speaker 2 (27:34):
When we talk about acceptance in our workshop and
of course it will be muchabbreviated here.
But when we talk aboutacceptance in our workshop and
of course it will be muchabbreviated here, but when we
talk about acceptance in ourworkshop we say acceptance is
acknowledging reality.
And so if my wife tells me thatshe's in love with Charlie,
accepting that would be okay.
I hear you and I understandthat you're in love with Charlie
.
That's acceptance.

(27:54):
You could think what?
Yeah, it's acceptance, it'sacknowledging reality.
Now, there's a difference inthat and encouraging and abating
or not abating, that's not theword.
Helping them, enabling them,that's the word I was looking
for.
And so if she said I'm in lovewith Charlie and I say, wow,
charlie's a heck of a guy.
I can surely understand why youlove him.

(28:15):
He's really neat.
That would be endorsing it.
I'm not going to endorse it.
If she said I'm in love withCharlie and I say, well, maybe
you don't need to go ahead andmove in and live with him for a
month to see if that really isgoing to work out or not, then
that would be encouraging.
And so we never endorse, wenever encourage and we don't
enable.
Now, if his financialdifficulty is due to something

(28:35):
that's not his fault and thatyou're just trying to help him
through that and it has nothingto do with his.
Is this guy having an affair?
Is that what she said?

Speaker 1 (28:45):
She doesn't say that.

Speaker 2 (28:46):
Okay If his financial difficulty is based on his
inappropriate actions, mysuggestion and of course you
have to make your own decisionbut my suggestion is don't help
him with the finances becausethat's enabling.
But if it's something that'snot his fault he lost his job,
he got laid off and it hasnothing to do with inappropriate

(29:06):
action then helping him out canbe a good thing.
But I personally wouldn't giveanybody anything that would
enable them to do the thingsthat they should not be doing.
If a drunk stops me on thestreet and asks me for money, I
say look, buddy, I'm arecovering alcoholic.
I know what you're going to dowith this money.
Therefore, I'm not going togive it to you because I'm not

(29:28):
going to help you get drunk Now,if you want something to eat,
I'll go in there and buy it foryou, but I'm not going to enable
you to do that bad thing.
Now apply that to marriage.
Yes, I'm not going to help themdo the wrong thing.
I'm just not, and I recommendthat you don't do that either.
But, as I said, it's yourchoice.
So be open, be understanding,listen, care.

(29:48):
Let him know that you acceptthat this is what he feels,
accept that this is what he'sdoing now, but you're not
encouraging it, you're notendorsing it.
As a matter of fact, you'reagainst it.
But you're understanding.
But don't in any way help himdo it.
That's at least what Irecommend.

Speaker 1 (30:04):
Yeah, these are things that are difficult to
navigate, sure they are.
They are, but we believe thatthere's always hope and there's
always a way out of it.
Here's a great question thatsomeone submitted.
They said how can I get myspouse to look and see things
from my perspective instead ofalways getting defensive about
how he is feeling?

Speaker 2 (30:26):
I don't know that your spouse will do this without
the help of a counselor.
I don't know if our coachesactually are equipped to do this
or not, but sometimes you cando a role play where you switch
sides and some counselors whoare very, very good at that will
say okay, now you be her andyou be him and now come from
their perspective and have thisdiscussion as if you were the

(30:46):
other person.
If you're being open and honestwith her, if you can talk to
each other, then that can helpthe other person see it from
your perspective.
Otherwise, my onlyrecommendation would be that
when you try to explain yourperspective, don't explain why
he or she is wrong.
Explain what you feel.
Can I tell you what I feelabout this and may I tell you

(31:09):
why I feel that way?
And sometimes, if you're goingto be really trying to
understand each other, you'regoing to go back to your
childhood to explain why youfeel that way, like my dad used
to beat my mom every otherweekend and it was a terrible
thing to experience, and he onlydid it when he was drinking.
And therefore, when you have anextra drink and I start getting

(31:30):
all hard to get along with,it's not just because you had
that second drink, it's becauseof what's happening inside of me
.
Can you understand how thataffects me?
And if the person comes backand says, well, I'm not your dad
, I know you're not, I'm notsaying that you are my dad I'm
asking you, can you understandhow I feel and how that affects

(31:51):
me?
Sometimes, being able to tellpeople not only what you feel
but why you feel that Workedwith a couple once he was a
physician and she was apharmacist or vice versa, I
can't remember.
It's been so long, so relativelyintelligent people, highly
educated, and they'd been havingarguments about sex their whole
marriage until finally, intheir fifties, she finally told

(32:14):
him about how she was sexuallyabused as a child.
It changed everything, becausenow he saw it from her
perspective, not just becauseshe said I don't want to do that
or that makes me feel bad,which he was trying to override
with it shouldn't make you feelbad, but when he found out where
it came from and she opened upand told him the story of what

(32:35):
happened and let him see heremotions of when it happened
because as she told it, she feltsome of those emotions all over
again Then he really understoodit from her perspective, and
that changed everything.

Speaker 1 (32:48):
The only other thing I might add to this person is
make sure that they areapproaching the conversation in
a way where they are notcriticizing on the front end.
So, thinking through, how areyou even bringing the topic up?
Are you bringing it up at theright time, when, when your
husband is the least stressed?
Are you doing it in such a waywhere you're bringing up the

(33:11):
fact he hasn't helped with thechores or done the dishes, or
whatever it might be, or whatlike?
What is the topic and how areyou approaching it?
Are you doing it in a way thatleads to defensiveness?

Speaker 2 (33:22):
or not, and if you do that, well, just before I came
over here as a matter of fact, Igot here a couple of minutes
late.
You can't tell that because theintro was going on I noticed my
wife was very sad and I askedher what it was about, and she
said I'm worried about money andwe're not rich, but we have
money.
And so I sat down and said helpme understand that.

(33:42):
And so, as we listened, finallyshe talked about what it really
was.
It's her mother who's been deadfor many years.
And now her mother made allthese candies and cookies for
Christmas and she was thinkingabout making candies and cookies
for Christmas and now she'svery, very sad.
Had nothing to do with money atall, but at least on this
occasion I was able to listenand ask gentle questions until

(34:07):
she finally was able to tell mewhat it was she really was
feeling and why she was feelingthat way, and that was worth
being late here, to me and toher.

Speaker 1 (34:18):
But finally made it anyway, We'll take it that's an
acceptable answer.
How do you come to an agreementif your spouse changes their
beliefs and values?

Speaker 2 (34:31):
You're the psychologist.
Well am I?
When do you now?

Speaker 1 (34:36):
predict you'll be, at which point, at what?

Speaker 2 (34:38):
point do you think you'll have a degree?

Speaker 1 (34:40):
I mean I have my master's in psychology Right,
and then I am in the middle ofmy data analysis for my
dissertation, which means myresearch is completed.
I just have to write chapterfour, chapter five, like there's
a light at the end of thetunnel and it's not a train Good
At that point.

Speaker 2 (34:56):
So before too very long, you're going to be Dr
Holmes.

Speaker 1 (34:59):
You know, yeah, there's several levels of
iterations of after I write,chapter four and five.
I understand.

Speaker 2 (35:05):
I got a PhD remember.
I know Okay but that makes youthe psychologist.

Speaker 1 (35:09):
Yeah, okay, all that trying to work around.
So how do you come to anagreement if your spouse changes
their beliefs and values?
It's it's difficult to not knowwhat this agreement is that
they're talking about and whatis the belief in values that's
changed.
But I mean, let's just talkabout the recent political
season.
People tend to grow as they age.

(35:29):
We aren't, we don't always havethe same beliefs and values as
we did when we got married, andthat's normal.
But the problem can become ifyou both get married and you
have the same political beliefsin this example, and then, over
time, one person begins tochange or another person begins
to change in a more, in a morerigid way.
So this can lead to conflict,which we see not only in

(35:53):
marriages but across all familyand friend relationships,
especially in in the pastseveral years, unfortunately.
So how can you come to anagreement if you originally
agreed on something, how to vote, what to believe about certain
things?
Well, it goes back to thingsthat we've already said Instead
of what's currently happening insociety, where someone shares a

(36:16):
view that you think isabsolutely asinine and you just
tear into them.
Here's all the reasons you'rewrong.
What if we thought about it ashow can I ask questions so that
I can better understand wherethis person is coming from?
Because what we know is thatbeliefs and values come from who
and what is important to aperson.

(36:37):
And you talk a whole lot aboutthis, Joe, and so if something
has changed in my life or I'mjust thinking of some friends in
my own life who they starteddoing a whole lot more work in
inner cities or they becamemissionaries well, things in the
political realm that are goingto be important to them may look
very different than it did whenthey first start out, because

(37:00):
who and what is important tothem has changed in their life,
and that's not a bad thing.
But when we begin to put Notnecessarily a bad thing.
No, right, it's not necessarilya bad thing.
Terrible situations is when westereotype and group people
together based on what they maysay.

(37:21):
Say, if they say, well, I'mgoing to vote for a Democratic
president in the US or I'm goingto vote for a Republican
president, well, based on whichside you're on, you may
stereotype someone in either ofthose camps and I'm not making
any political statements at all,right here but you're
stereotyping most of the timewhen, in reality, if you
actually had a conversation tounderstand, you may find you

(37:42):
actually have more similaritieswith that person than you
thought you did.
You just view how to approachit in some different ways.
So how do you come to anagreement?
Start by just trying to get anunderstanding of well, tell me
more about why you believe thisway and what's important to you,
and let's see where we can cometo a middle ground of
understanding so that we canmaybe agree to disagree or come

(38:05):
to a compromise, because 69%,according to the research, of
things that we fight about inour marriage we will never agree
on.
So then, how can you agree todisagree with?
Respect is another point thatwould be helpful here, Unless
it's a deal breaker.

Speaker 2 (38:21):
We had a couple we dealt with a few years ago where
that she had been invited byone of her friends to go to a
sex club.
In that night, she had sex withthree or four men that she had
never seen before.
She was titillated by it andcame back and told her husband,
we're going to start going to asex club and have sex with
different people, to which hereplied oh no, not going to
happen.

(38:41):
And so in that particular case,that's a deal breaker.
And so the first thing I wouldrecommend is okay, find out and
Kimberly's already alluded tothis but find out who or what
has changed and what isimportant to them, and so it
would be.
Is there somebody that's comeinto your life that has become a
very important person to youand they're influencing your

(39:02):
change of beliefs?
Is there something that now hasrisen to the top, something
that you want, some dreams, somedesire?
You're chasing something thatyou actually maybe accidentally,
got into to begin with, but nowyou like it, and now your
beliefs and values are changingbecause of the fact that
whatever or whoever is mostimportant to you has changed.

(39:22):
That's what I would starttrying to find out.
First, Tell me how your lifehas changed.
Tell me who you like to listento now.
Tell me who has the mostinfluence on you.
Now, typically, you can't askthat directly.
You've got to be more casualand come about it in a gentler,
kinder way.
And then, well, if he says youknow, I've been hanging out with
this guy named Charlie.

(39:42):
He's a new guy at work and he'smade me think about some things
differently.
We've had some really longconversations and I'm really
impressed with how this guythinks, and he's beginning to
make me think that I'm wrongabout some things.
And so is that?
What's changing your beliefs?
Yeah, Tell me about the beliefsthat have changed, because
that's when you're going to findout why the values change.

(40:03):
And in the case where we hadthe woman that wanted to go to
the sex club and a husband whowouldn't, she said this is who I
am now.
This is what I'm going to do.
You either do it or I divorceyou.
And he said I'm not going to.
And so it can wind up being adeal breaker.
It can actually lead to divorce, but the first thing you want
to try to do, if you can, is,through a gentle process, find

(40:24):
out what has changed and who andwhat is important to them, Then
start to understand how thathas affected their beliefs.
And it's not an easy process,but it can be done.

Speaker 1 (40:36):
Mm-hmm and people can go back to an original set of
beliefs and values.
I did, yeah.

Speaker 2 (40:43):
I changed my belief and value system when I left
Alice for another woman way backin 1984.
I divorced Alice and thenfinally came to my senses.
It took me about three years,but we were married in 1987.
And I actually did go back tomy original beliefs and values.
So don't think that justbecause they have changed, this
is who they are from now on.

(41:04):
Even with that lady that wentto the sex club, there's a
pretty good shot at some pointshe's going to look at it and go
what the heck was I thinking?
Right and actually go back toher original belief and value
system.

Speaker 1 (41:18):
It's up to you, then, as to whether or not you choose
to wait for that to happen,right, well, and I think we
should, as people say, and itdrives me crazy double click on
that.
So to double click on that andlike, make it bigger.
So we hone in on that.

Speaker 2 (41:31):
That's a new one for me.
I'm in the wrong age group, Ithink.

Speaker 1 (41:33):
Honestly, it's a very annoying phrase to me, but it
makes a lot of sense in thiscontext.
So double-clicking on that.
What I don't want people tohear is oh, you're saying, once
this happens, there's no hope.

Speaker 2 (41:46):
Oh, if I left that message, it was certainly a
mistake.

Speaker 1 (41:51):
Well, I don't know that you did, but people hear
things right, and especiallypeople who are in struggle and
in crisis.
So what we're saying is, ifyour spouse has, is in the
middle of doing something wherethey have changed their beliefs
and values, they're involved inan affair changing like
seriously changing deep, Deepbeliefs about monogamy, about I

(42:13):
mean, there's probably a wholelist of things that we could put
in there that are deal breakers, as you would say, things that
you cannot logically isn't theword I'm looking for but you,
just like you, would not feelgood continuing in the marriage.

Speaker 2 (42:28):
Yeah, I can't do this .

Speaker 1 (42:29):
Right, because then it begins to affect your own
beliefs and values.

Speaker 2 (42:32):
Right exactly.

Speaker 1 (42:34):
It's not that, then clearly that's a problem.
However, that doesn't mean thatyour spouse is too far gone or
lost, although it may feel thatway right now, but your spouse
can come back to their originalset of beliefs and values, and,
in fact, the process that weguide couples through helps to
facilitate that happening.
That's correct, which is onepart of why our couples

(42:54):
workshops are so effective inthe success rate that we have Um
and Dr John Hill and I I meanrecently just talked more about.
There's a podcast coming outtomorrow where Dr John Hill and
I go through current successrate at Marriage Helper and

(43:14):
breaking down what it is, how wecome to that data, why you
should understand what successrates mean when you're looking
at different ways to getmarriage help and how those
success rates are calculated andwhat the population is and what
the powering size of thatsample is, because those things
are important and you deserve toknow that to make an informed
decision.
Our success rate still, overthree different research studies

(43:37):
over 30 years, has shown a 70to 75% success rate and we break
that down in our podcasttomorrow.
Why am I saying all of this?
I'm saying all of this becausea huge part of what our couples
workshop does that facilitates.
That is what we're talking abouthere, and our encouragement to
you is, if your spouse isinvolved in some of these things

(43:58):
, that you do continue to havehope and you continue to do the
right things and you build afoundation for your marriage
that is strong, so that if andwhen your spouse comes back,
that you will be set up evenmore so for success of actually
reconciling and being a strongand committed marriage a year,

(44:19):
two years, seven years, 10 years, 20 years from now.
Because, at marriage helper,our goal is to support, save and
strengthen marriages to last alifetime and we believe that
there is hope for you, even ifyour spouse is in the middle of
doing the craziest things thatyou could never have ever
imagined.
Well, half of our team hasprobably done that and saved
their marriage and now they workwith us.

Speaker 2 (44:40):
Yeah, triple click.
One other thing to add to that.
That's this Don't change yourbelief in value systems,
thinking that's what you have todo to save the marriage.
A lady told me once well, hewants us to start having
threesomes and so if that's whatwill save the marriage, I'm
going to do it.

(45:00):
And I knew that was outside herbeliefs and values.
And what I said to her isyou're actually going to hasten
the destruction of your marriageif you change your beliefs and
values to try to make him happy.
Stick with what you believe invalue unless you discover what
you believe in value is wrong.

Speaker 1 (45:13):
Absolutely Well, Joe.
We only have five minutes leftbefore we announce the winner.
We have three questions, sopick a number one through three.
Two.
All right.
How do I create a safeenvironment for open
communication when pastinteractions have been hurtful?

Speaker 2 (45:31):
I'm not sure I understand.

Speaker 1 (45:32):
Would you like to change the question?

Speaker 2 (45:34):
I'm just not sure I understand.
Well, this is change thequestion.
I'm just not sure I understand.

Speaker 1 (45:35):
Well, this is all I have, so let's make some
assumptions.
How do I create a safeenvironment for open
communication?
If I had to guess, I would saythey've fought a lot about
issues in the past.
So how can we be open about howwe feel about things and have
it be a productive and healthyconversation, when in the past
we've just never been able to dothat?

Speaker 2 (45:55):
Okay, Make some ground rules.
The time to make rules abouthow to have communication,
especially how to argue, can'tbe made while you're arguing.
You've got to make themsometime when you're calm and
easy.
And so you can make some ruleslike this that you both agree to
, you both sign, so that laternobody looks back and says, no,
it was this.
No, no, we wrote it down and wesigned it.
So we we know what it was andone will be.

(46:17):
It's always going to be safe.
Nobody ever does anything that'sgoing to cause the other person
to feel unsafe, particularlyphysically.
So no yelling, no screaming, no, no standing up and stomping,
no threatening gestures thatyou're going to agree to that.
And if one of them happens,then by agreement, you end that
discussion and you start back infour hours or the next day,

(46:38):
whatever you want to do.
And another is that anytimeanybody starts well, going
toward what we call flooding,you don't have to explain it.
But if somebody starts gettingout of hand that, you'll take a
recess for 15 or 20 minutes andthen come back and you make
those rules in advance.
And the reason that you want tocome back to it is so that the
recess is not going to be usedas a method to get away from the

(47:00):
discussion.
So sit down, look at whathappens when you do and make
some rules about that.
If that happens, here's whatwe're going to do Now, to begin
with.
Once you make those and agree,if you almost immediately
violate them in the next visit,get you a coach.
Seriously, you can get one ofour coaches, for example they're
trained and have yourdiscussion with the coach

(47:20):
listening in, so that then, ifany of the rules start being
violated, the coach can be theone that steps in and says no,
okay, kind of calm down a littlebit there, charlie, because
that's a little too strong.
Or back up a little bit there,sally, and let the coach teach
you.
I actually know a couple overin New Mexico I'm blanking on
their names cool people.
They went on a cruise with usone time, first time they'd ever

(47:43):
seen the ocean scared them todeath.
What a time to see the ocean forthe first time when you're in
the middle of it.
The captain came in and said wewere going over some kind of a
trench that was 26,000 feet deepand he started panicking and I
said anything over six feetdoesn't matter, it's okay.
Anyhow, they took a couple thatcouldn't communicate, brought
them to their house and theywould facilitate the

(48:03):
conversations until the couple.
One night this couple that Iknow actually got up and left
and went to the living room andstarted watching TV, because the
other couple didn't realizethey had left because they had
finally learned how to talk toeach other.
So sometimes you need a coachor a wise couple or somebody to
help you do that.
But you can do that.

Speaker 1 (48:22):
It's like a referee.

Speaker 2 (48:23):
Almost.

Speaker 1 (48:24):
Yeah, I feel like there's a marriage helper board
game somewhere in here where wehave a.
We'll flesh it out.
We'll flesh it out.

Speaker 2 (48:34):
If not at least a card set.

Speaker 1 (48:36):
Yeah, something, something like that.
Okay, Jason, where are we at ontime?

Speaker 2 (48:41):
I'm expecting a phone call any minute now.
Mm.

Speaker 1 (48:47):
Of course.

Speaker 2 (48:48):
So in the meantime, until my phone call comes, is
there another question we cananswer really fast?

Speaker 1 (48:54):
Pick a number, one or three.

Speaker 2 (48:56):
Three.

Speaker 1 (48:57):
I don't know what.
I don't know.

Speaker 2 (48:59):
Which one's the shortest question?

Speaker 1 (49:01):
Well, one may be longer but easier to answer.
You know what this one?
What do I do with my wife beingemotionally attached to Pardon?

Speaker 2 (49:10):
me.
That's my call.
Hello, hey, santa.
Thanks, I've been waiting forthat call.
I wanted you to remind me.
Thank you very much, okay,kimberly.
Santa Claus called.

Speaker 1 (49:26):
Santa.

Speaker 2 (49:26):
Santa to say remember to give away the Solo
Spokeshouse Workshop.

Speaker 1 (49:32):
We've got to do it, okay, do we do it now or after
we answer this question?

Speaker 2 (49:33):
We've got to do it.

Speaker 1 (49:34):
Okay.
Do we do it now or after weanswer this question?
No let's do it now.

Speaker 3 (49:36):
Oh, jason's ready, let's do it now and then we can
maybe finish the question afterOkay, so the winner.

Speaker 1 (49:44):
Do we have a drum roll?
Joe and I are going to drumroll.

Speaker 3 (49:47):
Yeah, you can drum roll.
Okay, the winner of the free.

Speaker 1 (49:50):
Solo spouse workshop.

Speaker 3 (49:52):
It's fine Is hopefully I pronounce this
correctly Yahaira Suarez.
Congratulations.

Speaker 1 (49:59):
Congratulations, Yahaira.

Speaker 3 (50:01):
You have won a free solo spouse workshop.
We will send you an email latertoday confirming that to get
you registered and signed up.

Speaker 2 (50:10):
So no way to know if male or female from that name
Okay, that's fine, we'll findout, we'll find.
Or female from that name?
Okay, that's fine.

Speaker 1 (50:15):
We'll find out.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
We'll find out.
Congratulations,congratulations.

Speaker 1 (50:19):
Very exciting.
Love it.
There are a lot of things andways that we can help you at
Marriage Helper as well.
So, even though you may nothave won the Solo Spouse
Workshop and also I didn't giveaway any hoodies, I just totally
forgot, you know what?
We're going to pick threepeople from the list of
questions that we got andthey're going to be able to pick

(50:40):
something from our swag store.

Speaker 2 (50:41):
So from people that sent these questions.

Speaker 1 (50:43):
Yeah, well, we had 250.

Speaker 2 (50:45):
Okay, so three of them are going to get what?

Speaker 1 (50:48):
Anything from our swag store.
So we have hoodies, we havecoffee mugs, we have t-shirts
that say there's always hope.
Why?

Speaker 2 (50:55):
don't, I have any of these things.

Speaker 1 (50:58):
Well.

Speaker 2 (51:00):
I'm never here, that's right.

Speaker 1 (51:02):
No, I don't.
I actually don't have any ofthem either, except for the
there's always hope shirt, whichI think you have.
That, um, look, you have amarriage helping mug right there
.

Speaker 2 (51:10):
It's not mine.
It belongs to the office.

Speaker 3 (51:19):
For Christmas I will get you a marriage helper mug.
Thank you very much If you'reselected for the merch giveaway
we will also send you an emaillater today there you go.

Speaker 2 (51:24):
Thank you, jason, jason's, our producer, jason's
everything.
He wears so many hats.
I mean, it's unbelievablytalented.

Speaker 1 (51:30):
He does, he does.
Okay, we have to finish thisquestion.

Speaker 2 (51:33):
Okay, what was the question?

Speaker 1 (51:34):
What do I do with my wife being emotionally attached
to someone else and so caught upin her confirmation bias that
she makes a negative storylineof anything I do?
How do I lead back to themarriage?

Speaker 2 (51:45):
Okay, the negative storyline of anything you do is
actually called a negativeeffect.
Okay, and the negative effect?
That's what that means.
It means anything you do willbe interpreted negatively, even
if you open the door for it.
He's proving he has control andpower over me.
Negative affects don't go awayimmediately.
It takes time.
The positive effect that shehas toward this guy at some

(52:08):
point is going to change.
But why am I answering this?
This is psychology.

Speaker 1 (52:10):
No, it's not, Keep going, you're on a roll.

Speaker 2 (52:14):
You can't make it change.
If indeed it's limerence and Ican't judge that based on what
you just said here but if indeedit's limerence, then it's going
to fade at some point.
So what do you do?
Don't react to the negativeeffect.
If she attacks you, saysnegative things about you, et
cetera, don't fight back.
If it makes sense, you can sayhmm, I can see how you'd feel

(52:36):
that way and then just keep ontrucking, keep on moving, and
what you want to do is not fighther.
And at some point, if youcontinue to reduce the pushes
and continue the pulls andhopefully you know what we mean
by that If you continue toreduce the pushes and increase
the pulls, at some point, whenthat positive affect for him
begins to change because rightnow she's seeing everything he

(52:58):
does in a positive light Well,that doesn't last forever.
He's not perfect and at somepoint she's going to see that.
And if you want her to lookback toward you, it's when that
turns out to have more pushesthan pulls, that thing with him,
which it will eventually youwant to make sure that you've
got more pulls than pushes.

Speaker 1 (53:19):
Fantastic.
Basically, there's a big themethat we've had in a lot of these
questions, which isconsistently work on yourself,
because it's the best thing thatyou can do for you and because
it builds a good foundation toreconcile your marriage when
it's time.

Speaker 2 (53:34):
Try to do everything you can to evoke positive
emotions from everybody and, asmuch as you can, to reduce
evoking negative emotions fromanybody.
It makes your whole life betteryour life better and you never
know how it's going to makeother people have a better life
as well.

Speaker 1 (53:53):
Absolutely Well.
Thank you all for joining usfor the past hour.
We hope, from our MarriageHelper family to yours, that you
have a very Merry Christmas anda Happy New Year, and we have a
ton of exciting things lined upfor 2025.
Believe it or not, it is almosthere, so be sure that you're
subscribed to the YouTubechannel, be sure that you're a

(54:14):
part of the marriage helperemail list so that you can be a
part of all of the excitingthings we have lined up as we
start strong into 2025.
Until next time, there isalways hope.