February 19, 2025 • 18 mins
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When you don't agree with your spouse, it can be incredibly frustrating. It might be something where you absolutely HAVE TO come to some sort of resolution, but you are both hard set in your views.
Handling divisive topics in marriage is extremely important. On one hand, you want to be able to learn how to have healthy compromise with one another. On the other hand, you don't want to go against your own beliefs and values or to become a doormat for your spouse to run right over you and control the situation.
So in today's episode of Relationship Radio, we talk about how to handle divisive topics in marriage. Get ready to take some notes!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
I don't know about you, but over the past two years
, it seems like there are no endto the divisive and polarizing
topics that are happening in themedia, on social media and,
most importantly, inrelationships, and we are seeing
people in not just friendships,not just communities they're a
(00:29):
part of, but even sometimesending marriages because they no
longer agree about things thatare really important to them.
So we're going to be talkingabout how to deal with these
things.
How do you deal with reallydivisive issues when you stand
on one side and your spousestands on the other?
And I am joined by Dr Joe Beam-Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
You know, kimberly, a couple of years ago I
officiated at the funeral for adear, dear friend of mine.
We were very close.
We were worlds apart when itcame to our political views.
Now, most people will neverhear my political views because
of the business we're in, Idon't put them out there in the
public.
But he and I, you know, beingdear friends for many years,
(01:13):
would not see anything alike,but we loved each other dearly
and I was with him a lot beforehe died.
And then I did as I saidofficiated his funeral, and
there's a way to make thathappen.
On the other hand, anotherfriend of mine sat on my back
deck with me the other day asdusk descended and we sat there
(01:34):
talking into the dark and weused to have very similar views
when it came to religion, butnow he has changed to some
different kinds of views and hementioned some of the things
that he now no longer believed,that he used to believe, things
that I still do believe.
Yet we're still very closefriends and I know that if I
(01:55):
called him right now and said Ineeded help, I know he would
come and the same I would go tohim.
So what I'm trying to say isthere can be a lot of
differences, but you can stillbe close to each other.
You might be thinking, yeah,but you're talking about friends
, I'm talking about my wife, I'mtalking about my husband.
Well, maybe the first thing tounderstand here is that the
other person does not have tothink the way you want them to
(02:18):
think, to believe what you wantthem to believe, not always do
the things you think they shoulddo.
When you start talking aboutthe key to love, you have to
talk about this thing calledacceptance, and acceptance means
I may not endorse some of thethings that you believe, I may
not endorse some of the thingsthat you do, but I can accept
the fact that you believe themand still accept you as well.
(02:41):
And that has to be in existencenot only between a husband and
a wife, but parents and children, if you're going to have a
long-term relationship, becauseno, two people are going to
agree on everything Right, andisn't that what is so concerning
about what's happening rightnow in culture?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
this whole cancel culture.
If you don't agree with me orsay what I want you to say, then
I am going to cancel you.
I'm going to delete you out ofmy life.
The concept of it is sodestructive to relationships,
but it's what's being inbred inthe younger generation right now
, and there are several peoplemy generation and older who have
(03:22):
accepted this.
Is okay, I'll get on a soapbox.
You have to stop me, but wehave to.
It's in the home that we canteach our children how to love
even in the midst ofdisagreement, and right now,
social media and media isteaching them how to hate in the
midst of disagreement, and ithas to be turned around.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And not just between husbands and wives, but again
with parents and children.
When you were coming up, whenyou were about five years old, I
was actually speaking at achurch.
You won't remember this at all.
You were so young and I saidsomething in my sermon and you
had a friend at church with youthat day that didn't normally go
to church one of your guests.
And when we got home, you andyour friend talked for a while
(04:06):
and then you came in and told meI was wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Oh no, I believe that .
Speaker 2 (04:12):
You told me.
I said pardon, she said you'rewrong.
Or you said you're wrong and Isaid what do you mean?
I'm wrong.
And your buddy, your littlefive-year-old friend, had come
home and told you that no, no,this is the way it is.
Your dad's all wrong about thatand you two had had this deep,
five-year-old theologicaldiscussion.
Okay, and now you were therestraightening me out.
So how does a parent react tothat when he or she wants your
(04:38):
child to learn to think but, atthe same time, you have certain
beliefs and values that you hold, and it can be a challenge to
do so, but it definitely can bedone.
Do you remember any of the waysthat we did that with you?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, Well, yeah, so a lot of what I remember growing
up was there was conversation.
You would ask me questions.
Why do you think that?
Tell me about the conversation?
Who said it?
Could they have you know?
What motives do you think theyhad behind it?
There was just more of youasking me to gain an
(05:18):
understanding of how I hadgotten to this place in my head,
and I remember there would havebeen you explaining why we
would believe, or you believewhat you believe, and why you
would want the same for me.
But it was just never done in alike in that situation.
I guarantee your response wasnot your friend's wrong.
(05:39):
Go away Right Like y'all don'tknow what you're talking about.
You're just five years old.
What I said is right.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I think that's what I did.
I'm kidding.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
There's no way it would have been.
Tell me.
Tell me why you think that.
Cause you were.
You would have been asking mefor my evidence, like what's
your evidence of this?
And you would have given meyour evidence of this.
And I was reading a quote by aprofessor of organizational
psychology at Wharton businessschool.
His name is Adam Grant.
I was reading something on hisInstagram the other day where he
(06:12):
said critical thinking includesbeing able to understand the
evidence and then having aconversation about that.
And the irony was so manypeople under that refuted him
and his was in.
His statement was based onevidence, and he said the irony
is, you all are throwing out theevidence with what I'm saying
(06:36):
here, and and that's part ofwhat's happening as well right
now People are dismissingevidence, whether that's actual
research-based statisticalevidence or just the evidence of
how did you come to thisconclusion?
Let's have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So what we're modeling right here is the way
that you deal with thesepolarizing conversations is that
, rather than canceling a personthat you love because he or she
is your husband, wife, son,daughter, mother, father,
brother, sister, that ratherthan just writing them off
because they don't see it, theway you do is to actually listen
(07:10):
to each other.
And I'll guarantee you a coupleof things are going to happen
if you do.
One is sometimes, as you listen, you're going to come to
realize that you weren't eventalking about the same subject,
that you were thinking one thing, they were thinking another
thing, and that yourdisagreement actually was not a
disagreement.
You were talking about twodifferent things but not able to
communicate that.
Other times you will discoverthat sometimes you're wrong.
(07:34):
I know you don't want to hearthat, but surely in your
lifetime there have been timeswhen you've been listening to
people.
You were talking and all of asudden they hit you.
Good grief, I never thoughtabout that.
That, wow, I need to think thatthrough.
And the other thing that willhappen if you truly listen to
each other is you can maintain arelationship even if you don't
come to the same conclusion.
You can have a relationshipbecause of the fact that I can
(07:56):
accept the fact that you and Iwon't see everything alike.
I know that I'm imperfect, Iknow that you're imperfect, but
I know that I love you, nomatter what.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
And you know the other part of that is, even if
you disagree on things, thatperson can become one of the
people you go to to actually getfeedback from.
Or what do you think of this?
Maybe sometimes because theyhave a different view than you
but you respect them and yourespect the way they treat you.
Or even if they have similarbeliefs and values of you,
(08:30):
because they have treated youwith respect before, you trust
them more to go back to, to askthem.
You know, what do you think ofthis thing?
That's going on and we all needthat.
I think there's not.
I wonder, let me say it this wayI wonder if a lot of people
right now, because of a lack ofstrong relationships, they don't
(08:50):
have someone to go to when youknow the abortion thing came up
right.
So who do you have to bounceyour ideas off of or your
feelings and just unpack all ofthe emotions that can go around
on that with it?
And I think when people don'thave that, they just kind of
turn to social media and startmaking statements and that can
(09:11):
end up being divisive becauseother people are going to see it
out of context of arelationship and then make
judgments about each other, whenthere's no relationship there,
none.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I've actually done that to a couple of my friends
and said you know, based on whatyou just posted on Facebook,
here's what you sounded like.
You know, if I were able togive you a suggestion, it would
be.
You need to reword that becausepeople are not going to
understand what you're trying tosay.
So you're right Withrelationship.
You can have thoseconversations With that
relationship.
You get frustrated or you getangry, and then the fussing and
(09:49):
fighting starts and people startyou can't be my Facebook friend
, I'll never talk to you again,I'm not ever going to go to your
church anymore, et cetera, etcetera, et cetera.
And the world becomes more andmore divided and in my lifetime,
which at this point is 149years in my lifetime, I have
never seen a more divided nation, a more divided world, more
(10:14):
divided Christianity, everythingyou can think about more
division between parents andchildren, husbands and wives,
and it finally all boils down toultimately, I have to be able
to accept the fact that I'm notthe final decider.
Let me see if I can make that.
(10:35):
Say it in a different way.
Help me say this If I'm goingto say everybody has to think,
feel, act and believe, like me.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Then you become God.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You actually put your position as God.
I position myself as God,whereas I'm not that perfect.
You say so.
Do you have friends that livevery different lifestyles to
what you believe is correct?
Yes, I do.
You know that I have friendsthat, based on my religion, they
live very different lifestylesthan I believe, different
political beliefs yeah, and sohow do we love each other anyway
(11:09):
?
That's really what it's allabout.
You don't have to thinkeverything I think, believe
everything I believe you don't,or feel everything I think
believe everything I believe youdon't, or feel everything I
want you to feel.
We can still be very close toeach other and love each other
very deeply.
Now I've seen you and Rob.
You're both very strongpersonalities.
You could say that One way toput it.
Let me say it again you and Robare very strong personalities,
(11:34):
and I've seen you argue and yetyou're very close to each other,
even when you don't say thingsalike, right?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
That's absolutely right.
Even when I know we're going todiffer on opinions on certain
things, we still talk about itwith each other.
Now I will say, over 12 yearsof marriage, we have gotten
better at at listening andunderstanding each other's point
of view.
Back, when we were younger andnewly married, it would have
(12:01):
been well.
This is what I believe and it'sright.
And you need to come to my sideof the table and you know and
now we're both much more yeah, Ican see it your way, but here's
why, why I see it my way.
And but there's trust there.
There's trust that, even thoughI may not agree with him, I can
respect his reason forbelieving things that way and
(12:22):
trust him to hold my well.
Here's how I'm going to say itand it'll make sense to some of
our listeners.
And we can expand a little bit,because when I share my beliefs
and values with him, I'msharing some of the deepest
parts of who I am.
I'm giving him bricks and ifand he doesn't throw those back
at me he doesn't share them withother people.
He takes these, these thingsand he just cherishes them,
(12:46):
whereas there's been I mean,clearly he's my only husband,
but there's been other people inmy life where I'll share.
You know, this is what Ibelieve about this.
And then they say things like sodo you not trust God or how
could you?
And they just start attackingmy character because of
something completely unrelated.
(13:06):
And that's where there comesanxiety or shame, or like am, am
I a bad person Because Ibelieve this one thing?
But they've just equated it tolike my morals and um, and
that's what's not good, that'swhat's not healthy.
What's healthy is for someoneto be able to sit with you and
understand.
Why is that important to you?
(13:27):
Tell me more about that.
So here's one good example, andI'll relate it back to what you
and I were talking about when Iwas in college.
You may not remember this.
When I was in college, for abrief period of time, I was a
pacifist.
Do you remember this?
I remember us having theconversation.
We disagreed on so manydifferent things we really did.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I remember us having the conversation we disagreed on
so many different things wereally did In college that's
just the time.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Everything happens Now.
Ironically, I married a soldier, so clearly that phase didn't
last very long.
But Rob and I still don't likewar.
Now, rob doesn't like wareither, but he realizes it's a
necessity for protection andfreedom, whereas I am always
going to err more on the side ofbut why can't it be done a
different way?
Right, and so even when we havetalks about what's happening in
(14:12):
Russia or whatever, we we canboth agree on a common theme.
No one likes war, but we'regoing to.
Both of us see it in twodifferent ways, right.
But we can appreciate thedifferences in each other and
still have the conversationsaround it, even though the
differences are there, becausewe love each other and are
(14:33):
committed to the future of ourrelationship.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And love is always going to involve accepting
things about the other personthat you don't like.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I wish you thought differently than that.
I wish you believed differentlythan that.
I wish you felt differentlythan that.
You thought differently thanthat.
I wish you believed differentlythan that.
I wish you felt differentlythan that.
But being able to love ishaving that relationship anyway.
Now it doesn't mean you won'tget frustrated with each other.
Sometimes you will Like, ohgood grief, thought that again.
Sometimes you'll get frustrated, you might even get angry at
each other that kind of thing.
(15:02):
But knowing that I accept andlove you maintains the
relationship, no matter what.
That's what love really is allabout.
So how do you talk about thesetopics?
Be open, be honest, say whatyou really believe, but don't
attack and don't try to force iton the other person.
(15:23):
A friend of mine who was justabout to get her PhD this was
several years ago she was aboutto turn a dissertation in and
she said you can teach meanything, but you're not going
to force your belief, somethingabout anything.
And I thought that's the way itshould be.
I'm willing to learn, but don'ttry to tell me what to think,
what to feel, what to believe in, et cetera.
People react badly to that.
(15:45):
So have the conversations whatto believe in, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
People react badly to that, so have the conversations
but do it as friends, not asfoes, and be curious about why
the other person has that stance.
I believe, when you're curiousabout things like that, like so
back at the for for those of usin America, uh, back in the 2016
election, when it was Clintonversus Trump, I had two good
(16:09):
friends on opposite sides and Iremember they did such a good
job at this because one of themwas voting based on the fact
that she was an executivedirector at a nonprofit that
worked in an inner city, and soher world revolved around
impoverished people who couldnot get ahead, and that is what
(16:30):
she took into the voting booth.
And then I had another friendwho was on an opposite side,
where she loved the same people,but she was seeing it from a
different perspective.
But they could agree on.
We both love these people, butwe're going to show that
differently on voting day, andit was beautiful how they stayed
friends.
And that's how it should be,because when you actually
(16:52):
understood both of their stories, you could understand why they
both believed the things theydid.
There were more commonalitiesthan differences.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Excellent.
I think that's a really goodstory.
I like that.
So that's what you do.
If you want to talk about thesethings, you're better to talk
about it than not talk about it,but the way you talk about it
determines what happens to yourrelationship.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
That's right.
So if you enjoyed this episode,please give it a five-star
review.
Share it with a friend, shareit with maybe a spouse, if it's
appropriate to do so, and canget you on the same page about
talking about a divisive subject.
That would be a huge win in ourbooks.
And if there's anything we canhelp you with, go to
marriagehelpercom to see thecourses and the workshops that
(17:37):
we have that can help youstrengthen having me
I don't know about you, but over the past two years
, it seems like there are no endto the divisive and polarizing
topics that are happening in themedia, on social media and,
most importantly, inrelationships, and we are seeing
people in not just friendships,not just communities they're a
(00:29):
part of, but even sometimesending marriages because they no
longer agree about things thatare really important to them.
So we're going to be talkingabout how to deal with these
things.
How do you deal with reallydivisive issues when you stand
on one side and your spousestands on the other?
And I am joined by Dr Joe Beam-Thank you for being here.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
You know, kimberly, a couple of years ago I
officiated at the funeral for adear, dear friend of mine.
We were very close.
We were worlds apart when itcame to our political views.
Now, most people will neverhear my political views because
of the business we're in, Idon't put them out there in the
public.
But he and I, you know, beingdear friends for many years,
(01:13):
would not see anything alike,but we loved each other dearly
and I was with him a lot beforehe died.
And then I did as I saidofficiated his funeral, and
there's a way to make thathappen.
On the other hand, anotherfriend of mine sat on my back
deck with me the other day asdusk descended and we sat there
(01:34):
talking into the dark and weused to have very similar views
when it came to religion, butnow he has changed to some
different kinds of views and hementioned some of the things
that he now no longer believed,that he used to believe, things
that I still do believe.
Yet we're still very closefriends and I know that if I
(01:55):
called him right now and said Ineeded help, I know he would
come and the same I would go tohim.
So what I'm trying to say isthere can be a lot of
differences, but you can stillbe close to each other.
You might be thinking, yeah,but you're talking about friends
, I'm talking about my wife, I'mtalking about my husband.
Well, maybe the first thing tounderstand here is that the
other person does not have tothink the way you want them to
(02:18):
think, to believe what you wantthem to believe, not always do
the things you think they shoulddo.
When you start talking aboutthe key to love, you have to
talk about this thing calledacceptance, and acceptance means
I may not endorse some of thethings that you believe, I may
not endorse some of the thingsthat you do, but I can accept
the fact that you believe themand still accept you as well.
(02:41):
And that has to be in existencenot only between a husband and
a wife, but parents and children, if you're going to have a
long-term relationship, becauseno, two people are going to
agree on everything Right, andisn't that what is so concerning
about what's happening rightnow in culture?
Speaker 1 (03:01):
this whole cancel culture.
If you don't agree with me orsay what I want you to say, then
I am going to cancel you.
I'm going to delete you out ofmy life.
The concept of it is sodestructive to relationships,
but it's what's being inbred inthe younger generation right now
, and there are several peoplemy generation and older who have
(03:22):
accepted this.
Is okay, I'll get on a soapbox.
You have to stop me, but wehave to.
It's in the home that we canteach our children how to love
even in the midst ofdisagreement, and right now,
social media and media isteaching them how to hate in the
midst of disagreement, and ithas to be turned around.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
And not just between husbands and wives, but again
with parents and children.
When you were coming up, whenyou were about five years old, I
was actually speaking at achurch.
You won't remember this at all.
You were so young and I saidsomething in my sermon and you
had a friend at church with youthat day that didn't normally go
to church one of your guests.
And when we got home, you andyour friend talked for a while
(04:06):
and then you came in and told meI was wrong.
Speaker 1 (04:09):
Oh no, I believe that .
Speaker 2 (04:12):
You told me.
I said pardon, she said you'rewrong.
Or you said you're wrong and Isaid what do you mean?
I'm wrong.
And your buddy, your littlefive-year-old friend, had come
home and told you that no, no,this is the way it is.
Your dad's all wrong about thatand you two had had this deep,
five-year-old theologicaldiscussion.
Okay, and now you were therestraightening me out.
So how does a parent react tothat when he or she wants your
(04:38):
child to learn to think but, atthe same time, you have certain
beliefs and values that you hold, and it can be a challenge to
do so, but it definitely can bedone.
Do you remember any of the waysthat we did that with you?
Speaker 1 (04:57):
Yeah, Well, yeah, so a lot of what I remember growing
up was there was conversation.
You would ask me questions.
Why do you think that?
Tell me about the conversation?
Who said it?
Could they have you know?
What motives do you think theyhad behind it?
There was just more of youasking me to gain an
(05:18):
understanding of how I hadgotten to this place in my head,
and I remember there would havebeen you explaining why we
would believe, or you believewhat you believe, and why you
would want the same for me.
But it was just never done in alike in that situation.
I guarantee your response wasnot your friend's wrong.
(05:39):
Go away Right Like y'all don'tknow what you're talking about.
You're just five years old.
What I said is right.
Speaker 2 (05:45):
I think that's what I did.
I'm kidding.
Speaker 1 (05:49):
There's no way it would have been.
Tell me.
Tell me why you think that.
Cause you were.
You would have been asking mefor my evidence, like what's
your evidence of this?
And you would have given meyour evidence of this.
And I was reading a quote by aprofessor of organizational
psychology at Wharton businessschool.
His name is Adam Grant.
I was reading something on hisInstagram the other day where he
(06:12):
said critical thinking includesbeing able to understand the
evidence and then having aconversation about that.
And the irony was so manypeople under that refuted him
and his was in.
His statement was based onevidence, and he said the irony
is, you all are throwing out theevidence with what I'm saying
(06:36):
here, and and that's part ofwhat's happening as well right
now People are dismissingevidence, whether that's actual
research-based statisticalevidence or just the evidence of
how did you come to thisconclusion?
Let's have a conversation.
Speaker 2 (06:50):
So what we're modeling right here is the way
that you deal with thesepolarizing conversations is that
, rather than canceling a personthat you love because he or she
is your husband, wife, son,daughter, mother, father,
brother, sister, that ratherthan just writing them off
because they don't see it, theway you do is to actually listen
(07:10):
to each other.
And I'll guarantee you a coupleof things are going to happen
if you do.
One is sometimes, as you listen, you're going to come to
realize that you weren't eventalking about the same subject,
that you were thinking one thing, they were thinking another
thing, and that yourdisagreement actually was not a
disagreement.
You were talking about twodifferent things but not able to
communicate that.
Other times you will discoverthat sometimes you're wrong.
(07:34):
I know you don't want to hearthat, but surely in your
lifetime there have been timeswhen you've been listening to
people.
You were talking and all of asudden they hit you.
Good grief, I never thoughtabout that.
That, wow, I need to think thatthrough.
And the other thing that willhappen if you truly listen to
each other is you can maintain arelationship even if you don't
come to the same conclusion.
You can have a relationshipbecause of the fact that I can
(07:56):
accept the fact that you and Iwon't see everything alike.
I know that I'm imperfect, Iknow that you're imperfect, but
I know that I love you, nomatter what.
Speaker 1 (08:08):
And you know the other part of that is, even if
you disagree on things, thatperson can become one of the
people you go to to actually getfeedback from.
Or what do you think of this?
Maybe sometimes because theyhave a different view than you
but you respect them and yourespect the way they treat you.
Or even if they have similarbeliefs and values of you,
(08:30):
because they have treated youwith respect before, you trust
them more to go back to, to askthem.
You know, what do you think ofthis thing?
That's going on and we all needthat.
I think there's not.
I wonder, let me say it this wayI wonder if a lot of people
right now, because of a lack ofstrong relationships, they don't
(08:50):
have someone to go to when youknow the abortion thing came up
right.
So who do you have to bounceyour ideas off of or your
feelings and just unpack all ofthe emotions that can go around
on that with it?
And I think when people don'thave that, they just kind of
turn to social media and startmaking statements and that can
(09:11):
end up being divisive becauseother people are going to see it
out of context of arelationship and then make
judgments about each other, whenthere's no relationship there,
none.
Speaker 2 (09:25):
I've actually done that to a couple of my friends
and said you know, based on whatyou just posted on Facebook,
here's what you sounded like.
You know, if I were able togive you a suggestion, it would
be.
You need to reword that becausepeople are not going to
understand what you're trying tosay.
So you're right Withrelationship.
You can have thoseconversations With that
relationship.
You get frustrated or you getangry, and then the fussing and
(09:49):
fighting starts and people startyou can't be my Facebook friend
, I'll never talk to you again,I'm not ever going to go to your
church anymore, et cetera, etcetera, et cetera.
And the world becomes more andmore divided and in my lifetime,
which at this point is 149years in my lifetime, I have
never seen a more divided nation, a more divided world, more
(10:14):
divided Christianity, everythingyou can think about more
division between parents andchildren, husbands and wives,
and it finally all boils down toultimately, I have to be able
to accept the fact that I'm notthe final decider.
Let me see if I can make that.
(10:35):
Say it in a different way.
Help me say this If I'm goingto say everybody has to think,
feel, act and believe, like me.
Speaker 1 (10:42):
Then you become God.
Speaker 2 (10:44):
You actually put your position as God.
I position myself as God,whereas I'm not that perfect.
You say so.
Do you have friends that livevery different lifestyles to
what you believe is correct?
Yes, I do.
You know that I have friendsthat, based on my religion, they
live very different lifestylesthan I believe, different
political beliefs yeah, and sohow do we love each other anyway
(11:09):
?
That's really what it's allabout.
You don't have to thinkeverything I think, believe
everything I believe you don't,or feel everything I think
believe everything I believe youdon't, or feel everything I
want you to feel.
We can still be very close toeach other and love each other
very deeply.
Now I've seen you and Rob.
You're both very strongpersonalities.
You could say that One way toput it.
Let me say it again you and Robare very strong personalities,
(11:34):
and I've seen you argue and yetyou're very close to each other,
even when you don't say thingsalike, right?
Speaker 1 (11:41):
That's absolutely right.
Even when I know we're going todiffer on opinions on certain
things, we still talk about itwith each other.
Now I will say, over 12 yearsof marriage, we have gotten
better at at listening andunderstanding each other's point
of view.
Back, when we were younger andnewly married, it would have
(12:01):
been well.
This is what I believe and it'sright.
And you need to come to my sideof the table and you know and
now we're both much more yeah, Ican see it your way, but here's
why, why I see it my way.
And but there's trust there.
There's trust that, even thoughI may not agree with him, I can
respect his reason forbelieving things that way and
(12:22):
trust him to hold my well.
Here's how I'm going to say itand it'll make sense to some of
our listeners.
And we can expand a little bit,because when I share my beliefs
and values with him, I'msharing some of the deepest
parts of who I am.
I'm giving him bricks and ifand he doesn't throw those back
at me he doesn't share them withother people.
He takes these, these thingsand he just cherishes them,
(12:46):
whereas there's been I mean,clearly he's my only husband,
but there's been other people inmy life where I'll share.
You know, this is what Ibelieve about this.
And then they say things like sodo you not trust God or how
could you?
And they just start attackingmy character because of
something completely unrelated.
(13:06):
And that's where there comesanxiety or shame, or like am, am
I a bad person Because Ibelieve this one thing?
But they've just equated it tolike my morals and um, and
that's what's not good, that'swhat's not healthy.
What's healthy is for someoneto be able to sit with you and
understand.
Why is that important to you?
(13:27):
Tell me more about that.
So here's one good example, andI'll relate it back to what you
and I were talking about when Iwas in college.
You may not remember this.
When I was in college, for abrief period of time, I was a
pacifist.
Do you remember this?
I remember us having theconversation.
We disagreed on so manydifferent things we really did.
Speaker 2 (13:44):
I remember us having the conversation we disagreed on
so many different things wereally did In college that's
just the time.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
Everything happens Now.
Ironically, I married a soldier, so clearly that phase didn't
last very long.
But Rob and I still don't likewar.
Now, rob doesn't like wareither, but he realizes it's a
necessity for protection andfreedom, whereas I am always
going to err more on the side ofbut why can't it be done a
different way?
Right, and so even when we havetalks about what's happening in
(14:12):
Russia or whatever, we we canboth agree on a common theme.
No one likes war, but we'regoing to.
Both of us see it in twodifferent ways, right.
But we can appreciate thedifferences in each other and
still have the conversationsaround it, even though the
differences are there, becausewe love each other and are
(14:33):
committed to the future of ourrelationship.
Speaker 2 (14:36):
And love is always going to involve accepting
things about the other personthat you don't like.
Speaker 1 (14:42):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (14:42):
I wish you thought differently than that.
I wish you believed differentlythan that.
I wish you felt differentlythan that.
You thought differently thanthat.
I wish you believed differentlythan that.
I wish you felt differentlythan that.
But being able to love ishaving that relationship anyway.
Now it doesn't mean you won'tget frustrated with each other.
Sometimes you will Like, ohgood grief, thought that again.
Sometimes you'll get frustrated, you might even get angry at
each other that kind of thing.
(15:02):
But knowing that I accept andlove you maintains the
relationship, no matter what.
That's what love really is allabout.
So how do you talk about thesetopics?
Be open, be honest, say whatyou really believe, but don't
attack and don't try to force iton the other person.
(15:23):
A friend of mine who was justabout to get her PhD this was
several years ago she was aboutto turn a dissertation in and
she said you can teach meanything, but you're not going
to force your belief, somethingabout anything.
And I thought that's the way itshould be.
I'm willing to learn, but don'ttry to tell me what to think,
what to feel, what to believe in, et cetera.
People react badly to that.
(15:45):
So have the conversations whatto believe in, et cetera.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
People react badly to that, so have the conversations
but do it as friends, not asfoes, and be curious about why
the other person has that stance.
I believe, when you're curiousabout things like that, like so
back at the for for those of usin America, uh, back in the 2016
election, when it was Clintonversus Trump, I had two good
(16:09):
friends on opposite sides and Iremember they did such a good
job at this because one of themwas voting based on the fact
that she was an executivedirector at a nonprofit that
worked in an inner city, and soher world revolved around
impoverished people who couldnot get ahead, and that is what
(16:30):
she took into the voting booth.
And then I had another friendwho was on an opposite side,
where she loved the same people,but she was seeing it from a
different perspective.
But they could agree on.
We both love these people, butwe're going to show that
differently on voting day, andit was beautiful how they stayed
friends.
And that's how it should be,because when you actually
(16:52):
understood both of their stories, you could understand why they
both believed the things theydid.
There were more commonalitiesthan differences.
Speaker 2 (17:00):
Excellent.
I think that's a really goodstory.
I like that.
So that's what you do.
If you want to talk about thesethings, you're better to talk
about it than not talk about it,but the way you talk about it
determines what happens to yourrelationship.
Speaker 1 (17:14):
That's right.
So if you enjoyed this episode,please give it a five-star
review.
Share it with a friend, shareit with maybe a spouse, if it's
appropriate to do so, and canget you on the same page about
talking about a divisive subject.
That would be a huge win in ourbooks.
And if there's anything we canhelp you with, go to
marriagehelpercom to see thecourses and the workshops that
(17:37):
we have that can help youstrengthen having me
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