March 12, 2025 • 37 mins
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What happens when a marriage suffers from both of the top relationship killers – affairs and controlling behavior? Marcos and Elisa take us through their raw, unfiltered journey of shattered trust and the painstaking process of rebuilding it from the ground up.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Hello, I'm Marcos.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Elisa.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
We are part of the team here at Merch Helper.
Today we're going to talk abouthow to rebuild trust.
Well, in our personal story, mywife was going through an
affair.
So, yes, trust was brokenDuring my stand.
(00:28):
She kept having that affair, sothe trust was broken every day,
continuously for a period oftime.
There were parts where when shewill try to pull away from the
person or try to make it workwith us and it was no trust, of
(00:51):
course, but it was no room toeven try to rebuild it that she
will pull away again.
So it was a constant state ofuh, fear, and with fear about
your relationship, about whenit's gonna end.
No trust can be built, so itwas completely shattered.
(01:13):
Um, you also did not trust mefrom other motives, right?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
right, yeah, uh, if we start, you know, just talking
about the affair.
Yeah, I mean, it was impossiblefor him to trust me during that
time, but yeah, I didn't trustthat he will not control anymore
(01:39):
.
Marcus can definitely changehis behavior in which he did,
but do I trust that he isactually not manipulating?
Do I trust that he's actuallydoing it for the sake of us, not
(02:01):
just to get me back?
So it was a lot of trust issuesthat were broken, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
By the way, the top reason what mages break are
affairs.
The second biggest reason iscontrol, and we have both.
Yeah, I know I was ahumongongous controller and she
was having an affair.
So, yeah, the relation we couldsay the relation will was
(02:31):
completely destroyed at thatpoint yeah the how to reveal
trust question has a lot oflayers.
A lot of people try to jump thegun and go into okay, how I'm
(02:52):
going to trust him or her again,and that's not the point.
There are a lot of things thathas to happen.
First Part of rebuilding trustbefore you even start rebuilding
trust is rebuilding some otherareas that they are broken.
You cannot even startrebuilding trust is rebuilding
some other areas that are broken.
You cannot go into rebuildingtrust if you guys are using
horsemen and hurting each other.
(03:12):
You need to stop the bleedingfirst.
That will be number one.
Stop hurting that person.
Clean your side of the street,what I call clean your side of
the street.
You start doing the rightthings for the other person so
that you stop inflicting damageto the relationship.
(03:33):
You cannot rebuild trust whileyou still are criticizing, you
still are pushing the otherperson away, things like that.
So there are steps to thisprocess on the way, things like
that.
So there are steps to thisprocess In our story.
We came to the workshop.
She was having an affair.
She chose to continue theaffair after the workshop.
(03:58):
I chose to stand for mymarriage after the workshop and
we could not rebuild trust atthat point because we were not
both of us invested in themarriage.
It was just me at a point islike I found a lot of my clients
in stage let's save themarriage, not let's rebuild the
marriage.
Um, so, during the save themarriage part, all you do is no
(04:22):
pushes, try to vote some pools,work on yourself, work on your
pies, nothing with trust.
Yet if you try to imposecertain boundaries, certain
things, force the other personto do something, become
accountable and they are notinterested in, you're just gonna
push them away.
Everything has a place.
So there are a lot of stages ofthat crisis that you shouldn't
(04:48):
even try to rebuild trust, if Ican say it that way.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah.
And now you know, thinking back, like you know how many times
did I tell you, yeah, I'll endthe affair, and then that didn't
happen.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You know I will say that didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
You know I will say okay, yeah, I'm done, I'm done,
put me back in the cage.
That's the words I used to use.
Or I will give him my phone andthen, you know, not even 24
hours later, come back and say Ineed my phone back.
I can't do this.
Let me just, you know, get outof my cage again.
(05:25):
So can you imagine rebuildingtrust in that particular moment.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It was.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It was impossible um until the day that I actually
ended the affair when you startrebuilding the relationship is
when you start rebuilding trust.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It's going to be not impossible, but almost
impossible, for you to try torebuild some type of trust when
one of the one or the other, orboth, are still on other
relationships.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, yeah.
The other side of the story toois that, okay, yeah, I was
having the affair, but I we camefrom a controlling or.
You know, Marcus was verycontrolling, so I did not trust
(06:27):
that he was not going to go backto that.
Like, how can I trust, you know, if I'm leaving what I'm
thinking or feeling that it'sgoing to be, you know, my
salvation, the rescue, you know,and thinking that I'm going for
to something better in mybeliefs and values, will tell me
, no, that's not better for you.
You know, you have to stay withyour, with your spouse.
You have to stay with your,with your spouse.
You have to stay with Marcos.
How do I know that he's notgoing to go back to that?
(06:49):
So it took me, you know, alittle bit of trust too.
Now here's the thing withMarcos.
How did I know that he was not?
Was his consistency?
He stayed what's the word Iwant to use?
(07:09):
He stayed consistent.
No, but he stayed on track.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
I'm giving you the words because I want you to talk
good about me.
I enjoy you talking stay ontrack.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I mean he did not lose focus of what he, what he
wanted to accomplish.
So that's one of the thingsthat you know and we know.
You know that it's hard not togive up when you're hurting.
You know we understand that.
But he didn't, you know hiswill was so strong that he said
I'm not going to, you know, losetrack, I'm going to stay on
(07:45):
focus on that goal.
And he stays very consistent.
So I could not say, yeah, I'mnot going to trust you because
you've been consistently throughmaybe a year and a half a year
before I actually said, okay,let's try to rebuild this.
I actually said, okay, let'stry to rebuild this.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So some type of trust from one side can be rebuilt
during the spirit, but it'sgoing to be what we call the
wavering spouse, the person whowants out of the marriage start
trusting the other person andthat's when you start doing all
your work on your own, with yourexpectations low, with your
(08:26):
hopes high, but yourexpectations low, which is a
very hard thing to do, but it'spossible.
That's where I was and becauseof that, the person who wants
out of the marriage startsthinking differently, starts
seeing you in a different light,starts looking at you like,
okay, this guy is not that scaryanymore or whatever it is that
(08:47):
your situation is, whatever itwas that the other person moved
away from you.
That type of trust can berevealed, not mutual trust.
That's a different stage.
That's when you both decideokay, let's work on this.
So there is two stages.
Stage number one crisis.
You with a goal in your mind.
The other person can starttrusting that you are going to
(09:10):
be that guy or girl when he orshe comes back to you.
You cannot the person who isstanding cannot demand trust at
that point, because you're goingto just push away the person
again.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, I mean it's just.
It's just difficult whenthere's a third person to
rebuild trust, and that was ourexperience.
So how do I rebuild trust If I?
You know?
How will Marcus trust me if I'mstill in contact with the
affair partner?
It wasn't possible.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Even when there's not a third person.
In most situations that weencounter in marriage helper,
there is one person who reallywants to work for the marriage
and the other person who wantsto work less on the marriage.
And until that person wants towork less on the marriage gets
to a point like, okay, let'swork, let's try At that point.
(10:04):
Yes, when you're both in thesame boat, then you can start.
Okay, let's see how we do this.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Since I was the one in the affair.
I was the one not being honest.
I was the one hiding things.
I was the one hiding things.
I remember that one of thefirst things that I did was,
besides, sharing my feelingswith Marcos and I know that was
(10:35):
extremely tough to him, but hebecame a very safe place the
other thing was sharing my phone.
You're welcome to check myphone, you know.
Hey, you know you can.
You're welcome to check myphone as many times as you need.
Um, you're welcome to call mewhen I'm out, um to see where I,
where I'm at.
Um, you know we agree in those.
(10:58):
You know small, small, bigthings you can say as far as
okay, you know I'm going here,I'm going out with my friends.
You know, if you need to callme to feel safe, you can call me
.
You know Snapchat me orFaceTime me and I will answer.
You know it will not be aproblem.
Emails you know check emails.
(11:20):
I was ready to start rebuildingtrust at that point.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Whenever you know the affair ended and the key to
that was because it has been apass of control from my part.
If I have demanded, okay, nowyou have to do this, you have to
do that, I need to beaccountable, then it will have
felt like control, so I couldn'tgo there.
(11:50):
It has to be a agree betweenboth parties and it has to be
agreed between both parties, notthe way we used to agree before
, when I will just try to get myway and she will badge and she
will say okay, I knew that wasthe dynamic before and it's some
of the the the reasons why wecreate a mess that we walk into
(12:13):
later.
So to me it was like okay, alsobe vulnerable, because I'm a
have this macho man kind of wayof presenting myself.
I need to say look, I'm afraid,I am scared that this guy may
reach you or you may have theneed to reach to him and I want
(12:34):
to feel safe.
And that was, for me, was a bigstep.
Just to become vulnerableenough to say how can you make
me feel safe?
I had never asked that questionbefore to anybody in my life.
Just to become vulnerableenough to say how can you make
me feel safe?
I had never asked that questionbefore to anybody in my life.
I have a past of not trustingpeople.
Some of the during the worshipwe touch on what we call
(12:56):
attachment styles, which kind oflike touches into the reasons
why you do the things that youdo and how fear, you know, kind
of plays a part in you trusting,not trusting allowing people to
enter your life, not beingdismissive, things like that and
(13:18):
that part to me was eye-openingtoo.
My baseline is I don't trustpeople just from the get-go.
I have a big problem.
I will meet somebody and, hmm,what do you want from me?
Just from the get-go?
That's my baseline because ofhow I was treated during my
childhood.
So it was an extra layer in mycase in order to get to trust
(13:43):
Elisa again.
And I couldn't do it.
That was one thing Try not tobe controlled or not come around
as controller.
When we started doing thispractically her circle of
friends, for instance, yourcircle of friends they knew me,
they knew my controlling nature.
(14:04):
And let's say I'm callingbecause I'm triggered, because I
haven't heard from my wife forthree hours.
And I'm calling and the onething I ask her when she say,
okay, what do you need?
She offer.
So I say, look, the one thing Iwould like to and this, I tell
you my train of thought in myhead but the one thing I would
(14:26):
like is, when I call you, I callyou through WhatsApp, which is
an app that we have, and youwill pick up and I can see your
face and I can see where you are.
That will bring me peace.
My reasoning behind that waslike, if she's meeting the guy,
the guy who's going to have toduck down on the floor, and how
many times is who's going tohave to duck down on the floor,
and how many times is he goingto do that, before he says like,
okay, come on, I'm done withthis.
(14:46):
That was my reasoning, honestly.
And but that's what I asked.
She agreed and I didn't use itoften.
I use it very, very seldom.
I was careful not to come outof you know control again, but
when I did, one time she washaving lunch with girlfriends
(15:07):
and she says she's here, he'sthis and that, and as soon as we
got the phone, all her friendsgo like, why he needs to call
you?
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And that's part of the deal.
She needed to defend me.
Like, okay, we are rebuildingtrust.
We are the process ofreconciliation.
I want this.
All those things need to happen, like we need to be able to
(15:33):
work for each other.
Yeah, to attack our triggers,diminish our triggers and bring
us peace by the way we interact.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
One other thing that I remember, because you
mentioned this at the beginning,with your triggers.
Like I was going to havetriggers too, I had an emotional
affair with somebody for apretty long period of time and,
yes, you go through a grievingprocess, yes, you will miss the
(16:03):
person and I know, you know alot of standing spouses may not
want to hear that, but that'susually the way it goes and it
went that way with me.
Contact my affair partner again,I will either call Marcos or
call my coach, my marriagehelper coach, so they will, you
(16:27):
know, talk to me, pray with me.
You know, whatever, you know,sometimes, because I felt bad
telling Marcos that I, you knowI was triggered to call my
affair partner, I would just,you know, tell him hey, you know
I'm here in traffic and I havenothing to do, and you know, I
saw this person, you know shewas wearing some weird stuff and
(16:49):
we were just talking, starttalking about something.
I imagine that a few times hefigured that I needed to talk to
somebody.
If not, you know.
So things like that wouldhappen and I will get triggered,
you know, with a song orwhatever, and you know I will
have to do that.
But we agree on things likethat, that you know he will help
(17:09):
me through the process.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And another thing that helps rebuilding trust
during the process from thestandpoint of the standing
spouse.
Go back to another subject,which is called smart contact
that we have, which is to nevertake more that is given to you.
So I made sure that I made herfeel safe by not pushing my way
(17:33):
in.
I never said, okay, how long isit going to take?
How long are you going to keepthinking about these guys?
Because from the moment that wedecided to reconcile, I'm the
one with the date, she's the onewith and no date I remember to
the hour when things happened.
Sadly, I got a kind of memory.
(17:54):
So from the moment that shecame to me and told me look, I
need closure, I'm gonna, I'mgonna work on the marriage.
I just need to go and talk toyou one last time.
I have closure, which I thoughtto myself okay, she's going to
go, I will never see her back,or at least not for a week.
And then she comes back andgoes straight to her room.
We were still having differentrooms, bedrooms, and she goes
(18:18):
into her bed for 10 days or soand you slept and you took maybe
two baths.
You were stinking the house up.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Oh, I'm sorry.
I don't think that's not neededto be said in the video.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Too much information.
You were barely eating.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, and you were like a zombie, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
And I knew I'm not going to.
At that point I knew, okay,it's done.
Because the way you reacted andyes, of course I'm in pain I
said, wow, so much suffering forthis guy that I hate his guts.
But I could not force my way in.
I could not say, look, let'stalk about this.
How come you're so somber, blah, blah, blah, let's cheer you up
(19:01):
.
I never forced my way in.
I about this.
How come you're so somber, blah, blah, blah, let's cheer you up
.
I never forced my way in.
I allow her to grieve.
Ten days later she comes to mybed.
We have a extra king size bed.
I'm a big guy and we have, youknow, extra large made for us.
She put herself like a two byfour piece of wood on the corner
(19:22):
of her side of the bed andstarted crying.
And a lot of times you got toask yourself the questions.
You have to ask the questionsthat you don't want the answers
to.
That's one thing I always say.
You have to ask the questionsyou don't want the answers to
and I say, hey, we'll make youfeel better if we put pillows
between the bed.
At that point.
(19:44):
I don't know how long we haven'thad any type of physical
contact.
I was desperate for it, but I'mnot going to take more than
what is given to me.
That's part of building trust.
She needs to feel safe with me.
She needs to make sure that I'mnot taking advantage of her In
her misery which, yeah, okay,they should be miserable.
(20:06):
Whatever you think, whateveryou train your thoughts when
you're in pain, they deservethis.
Whatever, still, the goal, thegoal, the end rebuilding your
marriage.
What needs to happen in orderfor these to work eventually?
I asked the question.
Before I even end asking thequestion, she said yes, so I put
(20:28):
my pillows in there.
We had many rules in the house.
One of the rules in our houseis whoever wake up later makes
the bed.
And, of course, on those days Iwas waking earlier than you.
All the time you were likedragging your feet.
You were not working thingslike that every day.
I would come back home.
(20:48):
The pillows were thereunderneath the blankets every
day for about a month and a halfor so, never said okay, how
long is this gonna take?
Ever I was rebuilding myfriendship.
I asked for my boundaries.
I asked for for my triggers tobe appeased by me being able to
call.
I asked for what she could giveme.
(21:11):
Remember when she walked, whenwe walked back into
reconciliation mode, she didn'tfeel anything for me.
She was still in in limerence,what we call limerence, in an
attachment mode with the otherperson.
I actually had lost all my lovefor her too.
I mean two years of standing.
I had lost my love for her.
I was just standing because I'mstanding, because I'm stubborn
(21:34):
at that point, and it was nochemical connection at that
point, no sparks or anything.
But I never tried to impose myway.
I made her feel completely safeon that end, until one day
sometime later, I come back homeno pillows in between the bed,
(21:54):
I'm jumping like a kid, butstill like okay, I'm scared.
Oh look, we are men's men's,you will understand what I'm
talking about here.
I mean no contact, no physicalcontact, for a long period of
time.
She goes a month and a half.
She can't start crying again.
I have to ask the same questionagain.
(22:15):
I definitely want to ask it onemore time.
I ask it again and you say no,no, it's fine.
That's how you rebuild trust aswell.
It's not about a list of thingsyes, a list of things of what
we can do works, but it's alsoabout all intangibles, making
(22:36):
the place safe for each other.
And if it's only one-sided fornow, it's only one-sided for now
.
And I'm just talking, I knowI'm just talking to the standing
spouses on this one.
Well, it was not a turning point.
It was a moment for me, youknow, I felt like I could trust
(23:00):
her more and more and morebecause the way she was acting,
because she was investing in therelationship, it was not only
okay, I want to becomeaccountable, but she was doing
the things that I asked of herin order to fulfill my needs.
That was a different thing.
You work on everything.
The way you reveal trust is notonly about accountability.
(23:23):
You work on every single thingthat we teach here and that
builds trust.
So she was fulfilling my needsas best as she could possibly do
.
That was one thing was I wouldstill get triggered.
I would still have my moments,I would still have my doubts, I
(23:44):
would still go into some darkdays, somehow, what?
I will even go and check theother guy's website to see okay,
what is it doing?
Things like that.
It kept going.
It kind of started fading away.
You know, we moved out of thecity.
We were living at one point.
Right after reconciliation wehave moved out of the city where
(24:05):
we were living but I still ownmy company back then in atlanta
where I used to live and I usedto drive back to atlanta every
now and then, um, because wewere selling the company and it
needs to be vested on all thatstuff.
And I remember at first mytrailer was so big that 40 miles
before getting to my town nearAtlanta I was already having
(24:26):
like chest pain.
That's how bad it was becauseeverything happened there.
The moment I realized that Ifully trust you was not actually
not too long ago.
I mean we went to the worshipabout seven years ago.
We started reconciliation aboutfour and a half to five years
ago.
It was last year in March thatyou went to Mexico with
(24:49):
girlfriends just a girl's tripfor a whole week, and you were
there and then you were sendingme pictures, even with a waiter
there, the waiter took somepictures.
He put himself in the picturesand I have no triggers.
I was completely trusting thatyou were not gonna do anything
(25:11):
wrong and it surprised me.
I was like, wow, there's justnothing left.
Um, I tell everybody I mean,I'm a coach with mary shelper
and I, you know, they are goingthrough a reconciliation process
and still having all thesetriggers.
So I'm gonna, ever gonna beable to trust my spouse?
Yeah, the answer is yes for me.
(25:32):
Yes, I got to that, but it waswork.
Yeah, and the work keeps going.
Like we have said many times,we do everything it takes in
order to protect what we havebuilt.
Seriously, we do.
You know, she went to funnystory.
She went to that trip to Mexicowith the girlfriends, went to
(25:55):
visit the Chichen Itza pyramid,whatever it's called.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Chichen, itza Chichen .
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Itza, there you go and she takes a picture, like
everybody who goes there, takesa picture holding the pyramid
right and put that on herWhatsApp profile.
We run the English as a SecondLanguage program for our county
where we live right now, so shehas she's the director, so she
(26:21):
has about maybe 600 people thatcommunicate through WhatsApp
different classes and stuff likethat 600 people at least 300
men.
When she changed her profilepicture from both of us to her
with a chicken pizza within twodays, yeah, something like that.
A couple of guys started textinghey prof, hey teacher.
(26:42):
I mean you look awesome in thatpicture, right out of the bat
like eagles soaring, you know,waiting.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
What happened?
Did she change her picture?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And she comes to me running and say, look, look what
they have texted me.
We need to do something aboutit.
And I'm smiling.
She's trying to protect what wehave built.
I'm, I'm inside of me.
I'm like, whoa, this is great.
And she's looking for a picturewhere I'm gonna.
We have to look for a picture.
You look really big and ugly.
I was like I'm like I look uglyin every picture.
(27:14):
Okay, let's let's try ourhardest.
And she found a picture whenI'm actually behind her, one
step higher, so I look like aseven foot guy and she's there
and she put that picture.
And, man, those things is the.
Those are the moments I like.
Yeah, we are in a place that wewant to be.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And that trip to Mexicoxico.
Yeah, I felt no triggers, Ifelt no worries, I was
completely at peace, doing mything at home while you were
having fun in mexico yeah, myturning point, um, it was before
.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Um, it was before my affair ended.
It was one of those days that Icould not take it anymore.
One of the things that we teachhere at Marriage Helper is
about cognitive dissonance.
And I was leaving.
It was my beliefs and valuesand my behavior and they were
very contradicting, and so Ilived there for a while.
(28:13):
I came one day and just startedtalking.
Marcos had become such a safeplace for me in that and all
that time, like after, you know,coming to the workshop, he
didn't do it that well at first,but then he got really good at
it, so he made it very safe.
Like he said, he became myfriend that before he was not.
(28:35):
So he really changed hisbehavior towards me and towards
everybody.
But anyway, so one day I was, Iwas feeling really down.
You know, we have moved to adifferent state.
I missed the guy.
I missed him and I didn't haveanybody to tell him.
He could tell that there wassomething wrong with me.
So he came and he asked thequestion tell that there was
(28:58):
something wrong with me?
So he came and he asked thequestion what's going on?
I knew I could trust him and I,you know, inside of me, I'm
like I don't want to hurt you.
Like you know I hurt you enoughalready.
Please like leave me alone.
And he's like no, I'm okay, youknow, you can, you can tell me.
And so I just went like blah,like I miss him.
I miss him, you know, I lovehim.
I thought of a future with himso many things that it was
(29:22):
painful.
I mean, I knew it was painfulfor him.
Engagement rings.
His reaction was just so the oldMarcos would have.
The old Marcos would have justkilled me right there, probably,
or throw me out the window orjust tell me you know, get out
of my house, get out of my life.
That would have been the oldMarcos.
(29:44):
He just sat there and I'm notsaying that maybe inside of him
and he could tell you this thathis blood was just, you know,
boiling most likely.
But he did not react.
He just kept a poker face anddid not react.
So when I saw that, you knowand I wasn't doing it to test
(30:05):
him I was actually having a badday.
But when you know, goingthrough, that was like whoa,
like you know, I could saypretty much anything.
What else could I have saidright, I could say anything to
him and he is just so gracefuland peaceful and you know, here
(30:29):
to hold my hand and to say, hey,it's going to be okay and
that's just.
It was overwhelming good,overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Well, it's not about becoming a robot.
Okay, you're entitled to yourfeelings.
You're entitled to youremotions.
Okay, you are entitled to yourfeelings, you're entitled to
your emotions.
Stuff that she was telling mehurts and I felt the pain and it
was really bad, to the pointthat at some point I just
couldn't think anymore it's notabout the poker face and like,
(31:02):
just take it for taking it.
I mean you can say, look, thisreally hurts, which I think I
say this really hurts.
And then I say something alongthe lines like it's going to be
okay, we can do this.
And then I say I hope one dayyou can love me like you love
this guy, get to love me likeyou love this guy.
And then I asked to we have adog, his name is Max.
He's still with us.
(31:23):
And I asked to hey, anythingyou want to tell me?
And she said no, no, shethought maybe if I say one more
thing.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, she will throw me out the window.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
And then I said, hey, let me kind of go walk, max,
and I went to look, you're inpain, I get that.
Okay, it's not about puttingall your hurt in a jar and
covering up and try to to don'tleave that to block your
emotions.
I went out walking max max waslooking at me.
I just beat the crap out ofevery mailboxes and on the
(31:56):
street two blocks out, untilactually the next day, I'm
driving with my car out and Isee one mailbox going like
sideways, like okay, I hope theydon't have cameras in the front
yard or anything like that,because I'm doomed.
But it's not about you're notgonna feel.
I mean, even if you work onyour pies, even if you do
everything to get to a level ofpeace which it works, pies works
(32:20):
.
What we teach about pies workswonders.
It worked for me.
I hope we can do another videoabout pies soon because it does
wonder for you.
But still your spouse will saythings that they will throw you
around in circles and at thatpoint is I'm not going to allow
my feelings to run me against mygoal.
(32:41):
I'm going to act and reactaccordingly to what I have
learned, to what I know is rightto do.
That night we had aconversation about a year and a
half later.
We didn't talk about that.
She was still having the affair.
She never told me what shethought about me.
I thought she was still gone,that whatever I had done did not
(33:03):
count it.
About a year and a half laterwe had this conversation where
she tells me something along thelines like that night was the
night that I thought to myselfthe guy I'm running from treats
me better than the guy I'mrunning to, and that's kind of
(33:24):
part of rebuilding trust.
When you are still in crisis,you become the safe place for
that person.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Make sense.
Well, at the workshop, theygave us many, many tools on how
to help rebuild trust.
I will say that, for one of thethings that helped us the most
was working with a coach.
You know she will tell us yeah,this is maybe something that
(33:55):
you should do.
This is something that you maywant to wait a little bit to ask
.
So it's a process.
Okay, it's not something, it'snot a light switch, it's not
something that you can just say,like Marco said earlier, like
okay, yeah, we're trusting eachother now.
No, because you came out of alot of pain, a lot of
frustration, and so it's aprocess.
(34:17):
The workshop gave us reallygood tools on how to go through
that process.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, Now I am a coach with Mary Schoeper.
Now I've been a coach foralmost four years now
300-something years and coachingdoes wonders.
But the worship that we can use, the thing that gives you I
(34:43):
mean coaches will have to take70 sessions in order to let you
know, teach you what happensthere.
On three days In our case.
I came out of the workshop witha completely different time, I
mean frame of mind.
It changed me.
I came in thinking change her,fix her.
(35:07):
And I came out thinking changeher, fix her.
And I came out thinking I got alot to work on before I even
tried to do anything here.
I need to clean my side of thestreet.
And she got out of the workshopthinking I'm still out, great
stuff, but I'm going to grabthis and take off.
I don't want anything to dowith him.
And it's still.
(35:28):
A seed was planted in her headof doubt about their
relationship and of hope that,hey, even in the midst of a lot
of things, there is a path toreveal.
It's about when she got out allthe knowledge that she got.
It could not be refuted.
It was like do I want to or not?
(35:49):
And at that point for her itwas like it's not that I can't
anymore, it's just I don't wantto.
That's a different mindset.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
It's a lot of facts, there's a lot of facts that you
cannot.
You know, it's like numbers,numbers will not change.
So this is pretty much likethat.
You know, they give you, wegive you facts that you cannot
refute.
You cannot say no, this is notright, there's just factual.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
So I mean I encourage you guys to go to
MidgeHerbertcom.
Slash all C-A-L-L.
Check us out, Learn more aboutus.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
There's a lot more to learn.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Thanks for watching.
We'll see you guys again inanother video.
Hello, I'm Marcos.
Speaker 2 (00:01):
Hi, I'm Elisa.
Speaker 1 (00:03):
We are part of the team here at Merch Helper.
Today we're going to talk abouthow to rebuild trust.
Well, in our personal story, mywife was going through an
affair.
So, yes, trust was brokenDuring my stand.
(00:28):
She kept having that affair, sothe trust was broken every day,
continuously for a period oftime.
There were parts where when shewill try to pull away from the
person or try to make it workwith us and it was no trust, of
(00:51):
course, but it was no room toeven try to rebuild it that she
will pull away again.
So it was a constant state ofuh, fear, and with fear about
your relationship, about whenit's gonna end.
No trust can be built, so itwas completely shattered.
(01:13):
Um, you also did not trust mefrom other motives, right?
Speaker 2 (01:19):
right, yeah, uh, if we start, you know, just talking
about the affair.
Yeah, I mean, it was impossiblefor him to trust me during that
time, but yeah, I didn't trustthat he will not control anymore
(01:39):
.
Marcus can definitely changehis behavior in which he did,
but do I trust that he isactually not manipulating?
Do I trust that he's actuallydoing it for the sake of us, not
(02:01):
just to get me back?
So it was a lot of trust issuesthat were broken, yeah.
Speaker 1 (02:09):
By the way, the top reason what mages break are
affairs.
The second biggest reason iscontrol, and we have both.
Yeah, I know I was ahumongongous controller and she
was having an affair.
So, yeah, the relation we couldsay the relation will was
(02:31):
completely destroyed at thatpoint yeah the how to reveal
trust question has a lot oflayers.
A lot of people try to jump thegun and go into okay, how I'm
(02:52):
going to trust him or her again,and that's not the point.
There are a lot of things thathas to happen.
First Part of rebuilding trustbefore you even start rebuilding
trust is rebuilding some otherareas that they are broken.
You cannot even startrebuilding trust is rebuilding
some other areas that are broken.
You cannot go into rebuildingtrust if you guys are using
horsemen and hurting each other.
(03:12):
You need to stop the bleedingfirst.
That will be number one.
Stop hurting that person.
Clean your side of the street,what I call clean your side of
the street.
You start doing the rightthings for the other person so
that you stop inflicting damageto the relationship.
(03:33):
You cannot rebuild trust whileyou still are criticizing, you
still are pushing the otherperson away, things like that.
So there are steps to thisprocess on the way, things like
that.
So there are steps to thisprocess In our story.
We came to the workshop.
She was having an affair.
She chose to continue theaffair after the workshop.
(03:58):
I chose to stand for mymarriage after the workshop and
we could not rebuild trust atthat point because we were not
both of us invested in themarriage.
It was just me at a point islike I found a lot of my clients
in stage let's save themarriage, not let's rebuild the
marriage.
Um, so, during the save themarriage part, all you do is no
(04:22):
pushes, try to vote some pools,work on yourself, work on your
pies, nothing with trust.
Yet if you try to imposecertain boundaries, certain
things, force the other personto do something, become
accountable and they are notinterested in, you're just gonna
push them away.
Everything has a place.
So there are a lot of stages ofthat crisis that you shouldn't
(04:48):
even try to rebuild trust, if Ican say it that way.
Speaker 2 (04:51):
Yeah.
And now you know, thinking back, like you know how many times
did I tell you, yeah, I'll endthe affair, and then that didn't
happen.
Speaker 1 (05:00):
You know I will say that didn't happen.
Speaker 2 (05:02):
You know I will say okay, yeah, I'm done, I'm done,
put me back in the cage.
That's the words I used to use.
Or I will give him my phone andthen, you know, not even 24
hours later, come back and say Ineed my phone back.
I can't do this.
Let me just, you know, get outof my cage again.
(05:25):
So can you imagine rebuildingtrust in that particular moment.
Speaker 1 (05:29):
It was.
Speaker 2 (05:29):
It was impossible um until the day that I actually
ended the affair when you startrebuilding the relationship is
when you start rebuilding trust.
Speaker 1 (05:45):
It's going to be not impossible, but almost
impossible, for you to try torebuild some type of trust when
one of the one or the other, orboth, are still on other
relationships.
Speaker 2 (05:59):
Yeah, yeah.
The other side of the story toois that, okay, yeah, I was
having the affair, but I we camefrom a controlling or.
You know, Marcus was verycontrolling, so I did not trust
(06:27):
that he was not going to go backto that.
Like, how can I trust, you know, if I'm leaving what I'm
thinking or feeling that it'sgoing to be, you know, my
salvation, the rescue, you know,and thinking that I'm going for
to something better in mybeliefs and values, will tell me
, no, that's not better for you.
You know, you have to stay withyour, with your spouse.
You have to stay with your,with your spouse.
You have to stay with Marcos.
How do I know that he's notgoing to go back to that?
(06:49):
So it took me, you know, alittle bit of trust too.
Now here's the thing withMarcos.
How did I know that he was not?
Was his consistency?
He stayed what's the word Iwant to use?
(07:09):
He stayed consistent.
No, but he stayed on track.
Thank you.
Speaker 1 (07:14):
I'm giving you the words because I want you to talk
good about me.
I enjoy you talking stay ontrack.
Speaker 2 (07:23):
I mean he did not lose focus of what he, what he
wanted to accomplish.
So that's one of the thingsthat you know and we know.
You know that it's hard not togive up when you're hurting.
You know we understand that.
But he didn't, you know hiswill was so strong that he said
I'm not going to, you know, losetrack, I'm going to stay on
(07:45):
focus on that goal.
And he stays very consistent.
So I could not say, yeah, I'mnot going to trust you because
you've been consistently throughmaybe a year and a half a year
before I actually said, okay,let's try to rebuild this.
I actually said, okay, let'stry to rebuild this.
Speaker 1 (08:04):
So some type of trust from one side can be rebuilt
during the spirit, but it'sgoing to be what we call the
wavering spouse, the person whowants out of the marriage start
trusting the other person andthat's when you start doing all
your work on your own, with yourexpectations low, with your
(08:26):
hopes high, but yourexpectations low, which is a
very hard thing to do, but it'spossible.
That's where I was and becauseof that, the person who wants
out of the marriage startsthinking differently, starts
seeing you in a different light,starts looking at you like,
okay, this guy is not that scaryanymore or whatever it is that
(08:47):
your situation is, whatever itwas that the other person moved
away from you.
That type of trust can berevealed, not mutual trust.
That's a different stage.
That's when you both decideokay, let's work on this.
So there is two stages.
Stage number one crisis.
You with a goal in your mind.
The other person can starttrusting that you are going to
(09:10):
be that guy or girl when he orshe comes back to you.
You cannot the person who isstanding cannot demand trust at
that point, because you're goingto just push away the person
again.
Speaker 2 (09:24):
Yeah, I mean it's just.
It's just difficult whenthere's a third person to
rebuild trust, and that was ourexperience.
So how do I rebuild trust If I?
You know?
How will Marcus trust me if I'mstill in contact with the
affair partner?
It wasn't possible.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Even when there's not a third person.
In most situations that weencounter in marriage helper,
there is one person who reallywants to work for the marriage
and the other person who wantsto work less on the marriage.
And until that person wants towork less on the marriage gets
to a point like, okay, let'swork, let's try At that point.
(10:04):
Yes, when you're both in thesame boat, then you can start.
Okay, let's see how we do this.
Speaker 2 (10:13):
Since I was the one in the affair.
I was the one not being honest.
I was the one hiding things.
I was the one hiding things.
I remember that one of thefirst things that I did was,
besides, sharing my feelingswith Marcos and I know that was
(10:35):
extremely tough to him, but hebecame a very safe place the
other thing was sharing my phone.
You're welcome to check myphone, you know.
Hey, you know you can.
You're welcome to check myphone as many times as you need.
Um, you're welcome to call mewhen I'm out, um to see where I,
where I'm at.
Um, you know we agree in those.
(10:58):
You know small, small, bigthings you can say as far as
okay, you know I'm going here,I'm going out with my friends.
You know, if you need to callme to feel safe, you can call me
.
You know Snapchat me orFaceTime me and I will answer.
You know it will not be aproblem.
Emails you know check emails.
(11:20):
I was ready to start rebuildingtrust at that point.
Speaker 1 (11:26):
Whenever you know the affair ended and the key to
that was because it has been apass of control from my part.
If I have demanded, okay, nowyou have to do this, you have to
do that, I need to beaccountable, then it will have
felt like control, so I couldn'tgo there.
(11:50):
It has to be a agree betweenboth parties and it has to be
agreed between both parties, notthe way we used to agree before
, when I will just try to get myway and she will badge and she
will say okay, I knew that wasthe dynamic before and it's some
of the the the reasons why wecreate a mess that we walk into
(12:13):
later.
So to me it was like okay, alsobe vulnerable, because I'm a
have this macho man kind of wayof presenting myself.
I need to say look, I'm afraid,I am scared that this guy may
reach you or you may have theneed to reach to him and I want
(12:34):
to feel safe.
And that was, for me, was a bigstep.
Just to become vulnerableenough to say how can you make
me feel safe?
I had never asked that questionbefore to anybody in my life.
Just to become vulnerableenough to say how can you make
me feel safe?
I had never asked that questionbefore to anybody in my life.
I have a past of not trustingpeople.
Some of the during the worshipwe touch on what we call
(12:56):
attachment styles, which kind oflike touches into the reasons
why you do the things that youdo and how fear, you know, kind
of plays a part in you trusting,not trusting allowing people to
enter your life, not beingdismissive, things like that and
(13:18):
that part to me was eye-openingtoo.
My baseline is I don't trustpeople just from the get-go.
I have a big problem.
I will meet somebody and, hmm,what do you want from me?
Just from the get-go?
That's my baseline because ofhow I was treated during my
childhood.
So it was an extra layer in mycase in order to get to trust
(13:43):
Elisa again.
And I couldn't do it.
That was one thing Try not tobe controlled or not come around
as controller.
When we started doing thispractically her circle of
friends, for instance, yourcircle of friends they knew me,
they knew my controlling nature.
(14:04):
And let's say I'm callingbecause I'm triggered, because I
haven't heard from my wife forthree hours.
And I'm calling and the onething I ask her when she say,
okay, what do you need?
She offer.
So I say, look, the one thing Iwould like to and this, I tell
you my train of thought in myhead but the one thing I would
(14:26):
like is, when I call you, I callyou through WhatsApp, which is
an app that we have, and youwill pick up and I can see your
face and I can see where you are.
That will bring me peace.
My reasoning behind that waslike, if she's meeting the guy,
the guy who's going to have toduck down on the floor, and how
many times is who's going tohave to duck down on the floor,
and how many times is he goingto do that, before he says like,
okay, come on, I'm done withthis.
(14:46):
That was my reasoning, honestly.
And but that's what I asked.
She agreed and I didn't use itoften.
I use it very, very seldom.
I was careful not to come outof you know control again, but
when I did, one time she washaving lunch with girlfriends
(15:07):
and she says she's here, he'sthis and that, and as soon as we
got the phone, all her friendsgo like, why he needs to call
you?
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
And that's part of the deal.
She needed to defend me.
Like, okay, we are rebuildingtrust.
We are the process ofreconciliation.
I want this.
All those things need to happen, like we need to be able to
(15:33):
work for each other.
Yeah, to attack our triggers,diminish our triggers and bring
us peace by the way we interact.
Speaker 2 (15:42):
One other thing that I remember, because you
mentioned this at the beginning,with your triggers.
Like I was going to havetriggers too, I had an emotional
affair with somebody for apretty long period of time and,
yes, you go through a grievingprocess, yes, you will miss the
(16:03):
person and I know, you know alot of standing spouses may not
want to hear that, but that'susually the way it goes and it
went that way with me.
Contact my affair partner again,I will either call Marcos or
call my coach, my marriagehelper coach, so they will, you
(16:27):
know, talk to me, pray with me.
You know, whatever, you know,sometimes, because I felt bad
telling Marcos that I, you knowI was triggered to call my
affair partner, I would just,you know, tell him hey, you know
I'm here in traffic and I havenothing to do, and you know, I
saw this person, you know shewas wearing some weird stuff and
(16:49):
we were just talking, starttalking about something.
I imagine that a few times hefigured that I needed to talk to
somebody.
If not, you know.
So things like that wouldhappen and I will get triggered,
you know, with a song orwhatever, and you know I will
have to do that.
But we agree on things likethat, that you know he will help
(17:09):
me through the process.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
And another thing that helps rebuilding trust
during the process from thestandpoint of the standing
spouse.
Go back to another subject,which is called smart contact
that we have, which is to nevertake more that is given to you.
So I made sure that I made herfeel safe by not pushing my way
(17:33):
in.
I never said, okay, how long isit going to take?
How long are you going to keepthinking about these guys?
Because from the moment that wedecided to reconcile, I'm the
one with the date, she's the onewith and no date I remember to
the hour when things happened.
Sadly, I got a kind of memory.
(17:54):
So from the moment that shecame to me and told me look, I
need closure, I'm gonna, I'mgonna work on the marriage.
I just need to go and talk toyou one last time.
I have closure, which I thoughtto myself okay, she's going to
go, I will never see her back,or at least not for a week.
And then she comes back andgoes straight to her room.
We were still having differentrooms, bedrooms, and she goes
(18:18):
into her bed for 10 days or soand you slept and you took maybe
two baths.
You were stinking the house up.
Speaker 2 (18:29):
Oh, I'm sorry.
I don't think that's not neededto be said in the video.
Speaker 1 (18:33):
Too much information.
You were barely eating.
Speaker 2 (18:37):
Yeah, and you were like a zombie, yeah.
Speaker 1 (18:39):
And I knew I'm not going to.
At that point I knew, okay,it's done.
Because the way you reacted andyes, of course I'm in pain I
said, wow, so much suffering forthis guy that I hate his guts.
But I could not force my way in.
I could not say, look, let'stalk about this.
How come you're so somber, blah, blah, blah, let's cheer you up
(19:01):
.
I never forced my way in.
I about this.
How come you're so somber, blah, blah, blah, let's cheer you up
.
I never forced my way in.
I allow her to grieve.
Ten days later she comes to mybed.
We have a extra king size bed.
I'm a big guy and we have, youknow, extra large made for us.
She put herself like a two byfour piece of wood on the corner
(19:22):
of her side of the bed andstarted crying.
And a lot of times you got toask yourself the questions.
You have to ask the questionsthat you don't want the answers
to.
That's one thing I always say.
You have to ask the questionsyou don't want the answers to
and I say, hey, we'll make youfeel better if we put pillows
between the bed.
At that point.
(19:44):
I don't know how long we haven'thad any type of physical
contact.
I was desperate for it, but I'mnot going to take more than
what is given to me.
That's part of building trust.
She needs to feel safe with me.
She needs to make sure that I'mnot taking advantage of her In
her misery which, yeah, okay,they should be miserable.
(20:06):
Whatever you think, whateveryou train your thoughts when
you're in pain, they deservethis.
Whatever, still, the goal, thegoal, the end rebuilding your
marriage.
What needs to happen in orderfor these to work eventually?
I asked the question.
Before I even end asking thequestion, she said yes, so I put
(20:28):
my pillows in there.
We had many rules in the house.
One of the rules in our houseis whoever wake up later makes
the bed.
And, of course, on those days Iwas waking earlier than you.
All the time you were likedragging your feet.
You were not working thingslike that every day.
I would come back home.
(20:48):
The pillows were thereunderneath the blankets every
day for about a month and a halfor so, never said okay, how
long is this gonna take?
Ever I was rebuilding myfriendship.
I asked for my boundaries.
I asked for for my triggers tobe appeased by me being able to
call.
I asked for what she could giveme.
(21:11):
Remember when she walked, whenwe walked back into
reconciliation mode, she didn'tfeel anything for me.
She was still in in limerence,what we call limerence, in an
attachment mode with the otherperson.
I actually had lost all my lovefor her too.
I mean two years of standing.
I had lost my love for her.
I was just standing because I'mstanding, because I'm stubborn
(21:34):
at that point, and it was nochemical connection at that
point, no sparks or anything.
But I never tried to impose myway.
I made her feel completely safeon that end, until one day
sometime later, I come back homeno pillows in between the bed,
(21:54):
I'm jumping like a kid, butstill like okay, I'm scared.
Oh look, we are men's men's,you will understand what I'm
talking about here.
I mean no contact, no physicalcontact, for a long period of
time.
She goes a month and a half.
She can't start crying again.
I have to ask the same questionagain.
(22:15):
I definitely want to ask it onemore time.
I ask it again and you say no,no, it's fine.
That's how you rebuild trust aswell.
It's not about a list of thingsyes, a list of things of what
we can do works, but it's alsoabout all intangibles, making
(22:36):
the place safe for each other.
And if it's only one-sided fornow, it's only one-sided for now
.
And I'm just talking, I knowI'm just talking to the standing
spouses on this one.
Well, it was not a turning point.
It was a moment for me, youknow, I felt like I could trust
(23:00):
her more and more and morebecause the way she was acting,
because she was investing in therelationship, it was not only
okay, I want to becomeaccountable, but she was doing
the things that I asked of herin order to fulfill my needs.
That was a different thing.
You work on everything.
The way you reveal trust is notonly about accountability.
(23:23):
You work on every single thingthat we teach here and that
builds trust.
So she was fulfilling my needsas best as she could possibly do
.
That was one thing was I wouldstill get triggered.
I would still have my moments,I would still have my doubts, I
(23:44):
would still go into some darkdays, somehow, what?
I will even go and check theother guy's website to see okay,
what is it doing?
Things like that.
It kept going.
It kind of started fading away.
You know, we moved out of thecity.
We were living at one point.
Right after reconciliation wehave moved out of the city where
(24:05):
we were living but I still ownmy company back then in atlanta
where I used to live and I usedto drive back to atlanta every
now and then, um, because wewere selling the company and it
needs to be vested on all thatstuff.
And I remember at first mytrailer was so big that 40 miles
before getting to my town nearAtlanta I was already having
(24:26):
like chest pain.
That's how bad it was becauseeverything happened there.
The moment I realized that Ifully trust you was not actually
not too long ago.
I mean we went to the worshipabout seven years ago.
We started reconciliation aboutfour and a half to five years
ago.
It was last year in March thatyou went to Mexico with
(24:49):
girlfriends just a girl's tripfor a whole week, and you were
there and then you were sendingme pictures, even with a waiter
there, the waiter took somepictures.
He put himself in the picturesand I have no triggers.
I was completely trusting thatyou were not gonna do anything
(25:11):
wrong and it surprised me.
I was like, wow, there's justnothing left.
Um, I tell everybody I mean,I'm a coach with mary shelper
and I, you know, they are goingthrough a reconciliation process
and still having all thesetriggers.
So I'm gonna, ever gonna beable to trust my spouse?
Yeah, the answer is yes for me.
(25:32):
Yes, I got to that, but it waswork.
Yeah, and the work keeps going.
Like we have said many times,we do everything it takes in
order to protect what we havebuilt.
Seriously, we do.
You know, she went to funnystory.
She went to that trip to Mexicowith the girlfriends, went to
(25:55):
visit the Chichen Itza pyramid,whatever it's called.
Speaker 2 (25:59):
Chichen, itza Chichen .
Speaker 1 (26:00):
Itza, there you go and she takes a picture, like
everybody who goes there, takesa picture holding the pyramid
right and put that on herWhatsApp profile.
We run the English as a SecondLanguage program for our county
where we live right now, so shehas she's the director, so she
(26:21):
has about maybe 600 people thatcommunicate through WhatsApp
different classes and stuff likethat 600 people at least 300
men.
When she changed her profilepicture from both of us to her
with a chicken pizza within twodays, yeah, something like that.
A couple of guys started textinghey prof, hey teacher.
(26:42):
I mean you look awesome in thatpicture, right out of the bat
like eagles soaring, you know,waiting.
Speaker 2 (26:49):
What happened?
Did she change her picture?
Speaker 1 (26:52):
And she comes to me running and say, look, look what
they have texted me.
We need to do something aboutit.
And I'm smiling.
She's trying to protect what wehave built.
I'm, I'm inside of me.
I'm like, whoa, this is great.
And she's looking for a picturewhere I'm gonna.
We have to look for a picture.
You look really big and ugly.
I was like I'm like I look uglyin every picture.
(27:14):
Okay, let's let's try ourhardest.
And she found a picture whenI'm actually behind her, one
step higher, so I look like aseven foot guy and she's there
and she put that picture.
And, man, those things is the.
Those are the moments I like.
Yeah, we are in a place that wewant to be.
Speaker 2 (27:35):
Yeah, definitely.
Speaker 1 (27:37):
And that trip to Mexicoxico.
Yeah, I felt no triggers, Ifelt no worries, I was
completely at peace, doing mything at home while you were
having fun in mexico yeah, myturning point, um, it was before
.
Speaker 2 (27:52):
Um, it was before my affair ended.
It was one of those days that Icould not take it anymore.
One of the things that we teachhere at Marriage Helper is
about cognitive dissonance.
And I was leaving.
It was my beliefs and valuesand my behavior and they were
very contradicting, and so Ilived there for a while.
(28:13):
I came one day and just startedtalking.
Marcos had become such a safeplace for me in that and all
that time, like after, you know,coming to the workshop, he
didn't do it that well at first,but then he got really good at
it, so he made it very safe.
Like he said, he became myfriend that before he was not.
(28:35):
So he really changed hisbehavior towards me and towards
everybody.
But anyway, so one day I was, Iwas feeling really down.
You know, we have moved to adifferent state.
I missed the guy.
I missed him and I didn't haveanybody to tell him.
He could tell that there wassomething wrong with me.
So he came and he asked thequestion tell that there was
(28:58):
something wrong with me?
So he came and he asked thequestion what's going on?
I knew I could trust him and I,you know, inside of me, I'm
like I don't want to hurt you.
Like you know I hurt you enoughalready.
Please like leave me alone.
And he's like no, I'm okay, youknow, you can, you can tell me.
And so I just went like blah,like I miss him.
I miss him, you know, I lovehim.
I thought of a future with himso many things that it was
(29:22):
painful.
I mean, I knew it was painfulfor him.
Engagement rings.
His reaction was just so the oldMarcos would have.
The old Marcos would have justkilled me right there, probably,
or throw me out the window orjust tell me you know, get out
of my house, get out of my life.
That would have been the oldMarcos.
(29:44):
He just sat there and I'm notsaying that maybe inside of him
and he could tell you this thathis blood was just, you know,
boiling most likely.
But he did not react.
He just kept a poker face anddid not react.
So when I saw that, you knowand I wasn't doing it to test
(30:05):
him I was actually having a badday.
But when you know, goingthrough, that was like whoa,
like you know, I could saypretty much anything.
What else could I have saidright, I could say anything to
him and he is just so gracefuland peaceful and you know, here
(30:29):
to hold my hand and to say, hey,it's going to be okay and
that's just.
It was overwhelming good,overwhelming.
Speaker 1 (30:38):
Well, it's not about becoming a robot.
Okay, you're entitled to yourfeelings.
You're entitled to youremotions.
Okay, you are entitled to yourfeelings, you're entitled to
your emotions.
Stuff that she was telling mehurts and I felt the pain and it
was really bad, to the pointthat at some point I just
couldn't think anymore it's notabout the poker face and like,
(31:02):
just take it for taking it.
I mean you can say, look, thisreally hurts, which I think I
say this really hurts.
And then I say something alongthe lines like it's going to be
okay, we can do this.
And then I say I hope one dayyou can love me like you love
this guy, get to love me likeyou love this guy.
And then I asked to we have adog, his name is Max.
He's still with us.
(31:23):
And I asked to hey, anythingyou want to tell me?
And she said no, no, shethought maybe if I say one more
thing.
Speaker 2 (31:33):
Yeah, she will throw me out the window.
Speaker 1 (31:35):
And then I said, hey, let me kind of go walk, max,
and I went to look, you're inpain, I get that.
Okay, it's not about puttingall your hurt in a jar and
covering up and try to to don'tleave that to block your
emotions.
I went out walking max max waslooking at me.
I just beat the crap out ofevery mailboxes and on the
(31:56):
street two blocks out, untilactually the next day, I'm
driving with my car out and Isee one mailbox going like
sideways, like okay, I hope theydon't have cameras in the front
yard or anything like that,because I'm doomed.
But it's not about you're notgonna feel.
I mean, even if you work onyour pies, even if you do
everything to get to a level ofpeace which it works, pies works
(32:20):
.
What we teach about pies workswonders.
It worked for me.
I hope we can do another videoabout pies soon because it does
wonder for you.
But still your spouse will saythings that they will throw you
around in circles and at thatpoint is I'm not going to allow
my feelings to run me against mygoal.
(32:41):
I'm going to act and reactaccordingly to what I have
learned, to what I know is rightto do.
That night we had aconversation about a year and a
half later.
We didn't talk about that.
She was still having the affair.
She never told me what shethought about me.
I thought she was still gone,that whatever I had done did not
(33:03):
count it.
About a year and a half laterwe had this conversation where
she tells me something along thelines like that night was the
night that I thought to myselfthe guy I'm running from treats
me better than the guy I'mrunning to, and that's kind of
(33:24):
part of rebuilding trust.
When you are still in crisis,you become the safe place for
that person.
Speaker 2 (33:34):
Make sense.
Well, at the workshop, theygave us many, many tools on how
to help rebuild trust.
I will say that, for one of thethings that helped us the most
was working with a coach.
You know she will tell us yeah,this is maybe something that
(33:55):
you should do.
This is something that you maywant to wait a little bit to ask
.
So it's a process.
Okay, it's not something, it'snot a light switch, it's not
something that you can just say,like Marco said earlier, like
okay, yeah, we're trusting eachother now.
No, because you came out of alot of pain, a lot of
frustration, and so it's aprocess.
(34:17):
The workshop gave us reallygood tools on how to go through
that process.
Speaker 1 (34:22):
Yeah, Now I am a coach with Mary Schoeper.
Now I've been a coach foralmost four years now
300-something years and coachingdoes wonders.
But the worship that we can use, the thing that gives you I
(34:43):
mean coaches will have to take70 sessions in order to let you
know, teach you what happensthere.
On three days In our case.
I came out of the workshop witha completely different time, I
mean frame of mind.
It changed me.
I came in thinking change her,fix her.
(35:07):
And I came out thinking changeher, fix her.
And I came out thinking I got alot to work on before I even
tried to do anything here.
I need to clean my side of thestreet.
And she got out of the workshopthinking I'm still out, great
stuff, but I'm going to grabthis and take off.
I don't want anything to dowith him.
And it's still.
(35:28):
A seed was planted in her headof doubt about their
relationship and of hope that,hey, even in the midst of a lot
of things, there is a path toreveal.
It's about when she got out allthe knowledge that she got.
It could not be refuted.
It was like do I want to or not?
(35:49):
And at that point for her itwas like it's not that I can't
anymore, it's just I don't wantto.
That's a different mindset.
Speaker 2 (35:57):
It's a lot of facts, there's a lot of facts that you
cannot.
You know, it's like numbers,numbers will not change.
So this is pretty much likethat.
You know, they give you, wegive you facts that you cannot
refute.
You cannot say no, this is notright, there's just factual.
Speaker 1 (36:14):
So I mean I encourage you guys to go to
MidgeHerbertcom.
Slash all C-A-L-L.
Check us out, Learn more aboutus.
Speaker 2 (36:27):
There's a lot more to learn.
Speaker 1 (36:29):
Thanks for watching.
We'll see you guys again inanother video.
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