January 22, 2025 • 14 mins
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What are the top reasons divorces occur in the United States? Studies show that 50% of all marriages will end in divorce, while 41% of first marriages will end the same way.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:07):
According to government statistics, a large
percentage of marriages inAmerica fail.
I know you don't want yours tofail, so maybe we can learn
about how to make a marriagebetter and last longer if we
understand the primary reasonsthat a marriage will fail.
There's some good researchabout that.
Hi, I'm Dr Joe Beam and this isKimberly Holmes, my boss.
(00:28):
I work for her and Kimberly isworking right now even on your
PhD when it comes to psychology.
And why is it?
I mean, we've read the research.
Let's share it with people.
What are the reasons thatcauses for most marriage
failures?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yes, so of the marriages that do fail, the most
common reasons actually theresearch that's been done boils
it down to all of the reasonscan be boiled down into three
things, really, and that's thata person doesn't feel liked,
loved or respected.
Now what we're seeing is thatpeople talk a lot about the
(01:02):
symptoms of it.
Right, they talk a lot aboutwell, we divorced because we a
lot about well, we divorcedbecause we could never agree on
finances, or because they had anaffair, or because I couldn't
trust them anymore, or whateverreason it was.
But really all of those reasonscan be boiled down into one of
those three, according to theresearch.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, and we've been doing a lot of research of our
own and reading other researchabout trust, because it's such a
thing that gets talked about somuch and it's so valuable.
And when we look at this, whenwe quote those three things,
that it's not feeling loved, notfeeling liked, not feeling
respected, and it's notmeasuring whether or not a
spouse feels love like a respectfor the other.
(01:40):
It's whether the other personperceives that.
Now we're basically quotingright now some research by John
Gottman, who is like the guruwhen it comes to marriage
research.
In one of his books called theMarriage Clinic, he actually did
a literature review, whichmeans he was studying a lot of
different research as to themotivations of divorce, and when
he summarized those researchesin his book, the Marriage Clinic
(02:03):
, he said look, it comes down tothis the person who wants out
feels unloved, disliked ordisrespected.
Now, kimberly, that soundsawfully simple, but it's
actually much more complex,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Well, yeah, because first of all, we need to
identify what it means to feelliked, loved and respected,
because we have to start therein research.
But then the second part of itis someone else's perception.
Right, this can make it alittle more, a little more muddy
.
A little more muddy because Imay act towards my husband, may
(02:35):
think I'm acting like I like,love and respect him, but if he
doesn't perceive it that way,there's still as much of a
disconnect.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Absolutely, and it's kind of interesting how often
people think, no, everything I'mdoing is loving you, when the
other person's thinkingeverything you're doing is
controlling me or making me feelmiserable.
I actually talked to a couplethe other day where that one of
the reasons they were driftingapart is because one of them and
in this case it was the husbandone of them talked a whole lot
(03:04):
about the things that were goingwrong in the world and that's
basically all he talked about.
This bad thing's happening,that bad thing's happening, that
bad thing's happening.
And she's saying I would liketo have a little joy in our
lives.
How can we have joy when that'sgoing on and that's going on
Now?
He thought I'm just sharing whatI think about life.
That's what loving people do,and that's true.
(03:31):
But what she heard was can younot understand that I have some
needs here, and one of thoseneeds is not to be depressed,
and you're actually leading meto feel more depressed, which
then led her to feeldisrespected.
Now, is that too complex, or doyou think that we can make that
even easier to understand?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I think we can give some other examples that help to
make it easier to understand aswell.
So when it comes to this, thissame premise not feeling
respected right, I'll give youan example of just last night.
So I have a sister and a cousinyou know this, but many of our
viewers may not and so my cousingot a cabin up in the mountains
(04:07):
and invited me and my sister togo with her over sometime over
the fall.
And so I asked Rob last nighthey, what do you think about me
going?
This sounds like a really greatopportunity.
And he was not loving it.
And so I internalized hisreaction to be like he is trying
to control me, he doesn't wantme to go, why is this happening?
(04:30):
And I didn't feel respected forme being able to make my own
decisions the way I wanted.
What the actual truth of it was.
Once I actually got curious andsought to understand his point
of view was, he said I honestlyI just don't love when you're
gone.
We were apart a lot in themilitary.
I would rather you be here, butI'm totally fine with you going
(04:53):
.
So I interpreted it one way.
My perception was completelydifferent and if I hadn't have
gone back and been curious abouthis reaction.
I would have painted thatnegative story in my mind and
felt disrespected and continuedto carry that resentment forward
when in actuality it wascompletely different.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And let's carry that a step further.
Then, Now that you know hefeels alone when you're gone it
doesn't mean you can't go.
But if you came back and saidoh, by the way, two weeks after
that I'm going over there, andthen two weeks after that I'm
going over there, Then he wouldfeel disrespected because I've
already let you know that I feelalone when you're gone.
So it's not just a one-sidedthing, it's two ways.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Right and this is another part of marriage right
spouse, what our spouse needs inorder to feel liked, loved and
respected.
Then it's on us to make surethat we incorporate that into
the future.
And that is what helps buildtrust going back to trust when
we make the decisions that arebest for the long term
(05:57):
relationship, for the marriage,not just what I want, not just
what he wants, but what's bestfor the relationship.
And so all of that plays inhere to feeling liked, loved and
respected and to making surethe perception of that is
occurring.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
And so, as you said earlier, you have to define the
terms to some degree,particularly love, because here
in the USA, where we are, thewords used for too many
different things.
I love ice cream, I love mymother, I love my daughter, I
love my wife those may betotally different emotions, or
at least a lot differentemotions.
And so when we talk about love,we'll use the research by
(06:31):
Robert Sternberg who's justbrilliant, who says that,
basically, love has threesubcomponents that make love.
One is called commitment,meaning I'm going to do what it
takes to keep the relationshipalive.
Another is passion, which has asexual dimension, but it's not
really about sex.
It's about the fact that wecrave oneness with each other.
(06:53):
And then the really big oneintimacy.
Now, again, it's not about sex,it's about openness,
transparency, vulnerability,which is all about trust.
The more I feel that I can beopen and honest with you about
what I think, what I believe,what I feel, what I do, and that
, even if you're not crazy aboutit as a matter of fact, you
(07:14):
might not even like some of thethings that I feel or believe
that you will still accept meanyway.
We don't have to have a hundredpercent agreement that you'll
still accept me anyway, then Ifeel loved.
But if I feel that I have to dosomething differently, believe
differently, whatever it mightbe, to get you to accept me,
(07:36):
then I don't feel loved.
Or maybe you said this way Ifeel loved only conditionally,
meaning I only feel loved whenI'm doing what you want me to do
.
So true love, kimberly, is kindof difficult because nobody's
perfect and the other person'snever going to completely
believe, think, feel and doeverything you want them to.
(07:57):
So how does that work into this?
Well, how does a marriage end?
It ends because one persondoesn't feel respected or loved
or liked.
So it's really not easy.
It's not easy at all.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
No, it's not easy, and that is something we will
talk about in a future episodewhere we talk about marriage
myths.
Right, Marriage is notnecessarily easy.
It takes work, but that's whyit is the most important earthly
relationship because it takeswork.
If it came easy, we probablywouldn't appreciate it as much,
invest in it as much, all ofthose things.
(08:33):
It takes intentionality.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
And it takes a level of equality.
It's called egalitarianmarriages, which means that if
one feels the other is acting orbelieving that they are
superior, this doesn't work.
Recently worked with a couplewhere he said you know, the
wife's just supposed to obey herhusband and she's like you know
, I'm happy for you to be thehead of the house.
(08:57):
That's fine with me, but I amnot your slave, I'm not your
child, and you'll have to treatme as if I'm an equal.
And he had been brought up in ahome where that didn't happen,
and so his expectation wasyou're subservient, I'm the boss
.
In that situation, how do youthink she felt?
Unloved, disliked, disrespected?
Which of the three?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
All of the above, but probably disrespect more than
anything, because all of asudden she doesn't have a voice.
And what do you do when youfeel like you can't speak for
yourself?
Or when you do, you're notheard.
You feel like you're out ofcontrol of everything.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So let's run through a couple of things.
Our friend Dave Ramsey will saythe number one reason for the
divorce in America is finances,which we don't disagree with if
you're looking at symptoms.
So how does this fit with that?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Right.
So finances are a directreflection of what I am giving
my life for right.
So if we think of it in apayment, we work to get paid and
the payment we bring home is,is, or the finance has brought
in.
So if my husband goes andspends, you know, $2,000 on a
(10:12):
new TV that we don't need, thenI am thinking do you know how
long it took me to work to payfor that that you just did?
And especially if there's noconversation.
If there's no, you know thenhow do you feel?
And especially if there's noconversation if there's no, you
know.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So then how do you?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
feel Disrespected More than anything, disrespected
Because it would be.
I would feel unloved in adifferent type of situation.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Okay, All right.
Well, we can apply this to alot of things and we're about
out of time, so let's hit acouple.
Sometimes people say, well, ourbiggest problems are in-laws,
but A lack of respect in themarriage.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, because you're not standing up for your
spouse's wants, needs or desires.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
So the other spouse, the one who's actually blood kin
, should be the one standing upand protecting this person, or
this person feels disrespected.
So even if they have mismatchedsex drives same thing.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Same thing.
But in all of this I think wehave to caveat it and say you
have to know and understand whatyour spouse's wants, needs and
desires are, because then youwon't know if you're
disrespecting them, if you don't.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I think that we need to talk more about that.
We're out of time, so why don'twe do another program on the
hidden part of communicationthat people can do if they learn
how to do it, that can actuallyhelp all these things happen.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I think that sounds like a great way to bring our
listeners back.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Good, we hope you come back, because that'll be
our next episode.
Okay, based on what you guysare saying, how do we
communicate in such a way thatwe really understand each other
so that we can love, like andrespect?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
So, as we wrap up, let's talk about the key
takeaways from this episode, butbefore we do, be sure that you
like this podcast, subscribe toit.
If you're watching on YouTube,then please subscribe to the
channel.
Like the video, share it with afriend or family member who may
need it, and then we will jumpinto the key takeaways.
So the number one reason, orthe top three reasons we could
(12:13):
say, that most marriages failthat do fail in America all fall
under there is a lack of likelove or respect on one or both
spouses' part within themarriage, and this can look a
lot of different ways.
It can look like fighting overfinances or differences in sex
drive or issues with the in-laws, or we could continue going for
(12:36):
forever yeah.
But we do not have time.
But at the core, it's aboutunderstanding what am I doing to
show my spouse I like, love andrespect them in a way that they
perceive it and then, of course, hopefully your spouse doing
that back to you and that is oneof the best ways your spouse
doing that back to you and thatis one of the best ways to
divorce proof your marriageExactly.
(12:56):
Thank you, dr Beam, for joiningme.
We'll see you next week.
You.
According to government statistics, a large
percentage of marriages inAmerica fail.
I know you don't want yours tofail, so maybe we can learn
about how to make a marriagebetter and last longer if we
understand the primary reasonsthat a marriage will fail.
There's some good researchabout that.
Hi, I'm Dr Joe Beam and this isKimberly Holmes, my boss.
(00:28):
I work for her and Kimberly isworking right now even on your
PhD when it comes to psychology.
And why is it?
I mean, we've read the research.
Let's share it with people.
What are the reasons thatcauses for most marriage
failures?
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Yes, so of the marriages that do fail, the most
common reasons actually theresearch that's been done boils
it down to all of the reasonscan be boiled down into three
things, really, and that's thata person doesn't feel liked,
loved or respected.
Now what we're seeing is thatpeople talk a lot about the
(01:02):
symptoms of it.
Right, they talk a lot aboutwell, we divorced because we a
lot about well, we divorcedbecause we could never agree on
finances, or because they had anaffair, or because I couldn't
trust them anymore, or whateverreason it was.
But really all of those reasonscan be boiled down into one of
those three, according to theresearch.
Speaker 1 (01:18):
Yeah, and we've been doing a lot of research of our
own and reading other researchabout trust, because it's such a
thing that gets talked about somuch and it's so valuable.
And when we look at this, whenwe quote those three things,
that it's not feeling loved, notfeeling liked, not feeling
respected, and it's notmeasuring whether or not a
spouse feels love like a respectfor the other.
(01:40):
It's whether the other personperceives that.
Now we're basically quotingright now some research by John
Gottman, who is like the guruwhen it comes to marriage
research.
In one of his books called theMarriage Clinic, he actually did
a literature review, whichmeans he was studying a lot of
different research as to themotivations of divorce, and when
he summarized those researchesin his book, the Marriage Clinic
(02:03):
, he said look, it comes down tothis the person who wants out
feels unloved, disliked ordisrespected.
Now, kimberly, that soundsawfully simple, but it's
actually much more complex,isn't it?
Speaker 2 (02:15):
Well, yeah, because first of all, we need to
identify what it means to feelliked, loved and respected,
because we have to start therein research.
But then the second part of itis someone else's perception.
Right, this can make it alittle more, a little more muddy
.
A little more muddy because Imay act towards my husband, may
(02:35):
think I'm acting like I like,love and respect him, but if he
doesn't perceive it that way,there's still as much of a
disconnect.
Speaker 1 (02:43):
Absolutely, and it's kind of interesting how often
people think, no, everything I'mdoing is loving you, when the
other person's thinkingeverything you're doing is
controlling me or making me feelmiserable.
I actually talked to a couplethe other day where that one of
the reasons they were driftingapart is because one of them and
in this case it was the husbandone of them talked a whole lot
(03:04):
about the things that were goingwrong in the world and that's
basically all he talked about.
This bad thing's happening,that bad thing's happening, that
bad thing's happening.
And she's saying I would liketo have a little joy in our
lives.
How can we have joy when that'sgoing on and that's going on
Now?
He thought I'm just sharing whatI think about life.
That's what loving people do,and that's true.
(03:31):
But what she heard was can younot understand that I have some
needs here, and one of thoseneeds is not to be depressed,
and you're actually leading meto feel more depressed, which
then led her to feeldisrespected.
Now, is that too complex, or doyou think that we can make that
even easier to understand?
Speaker 2 (03:44):
I think we can give some other examples that help to
make it easier to understand aswell.
So when it comes to this, thissame premise not feeling
respected right, I'll give youan example of just last night.
So I have a sister and a cousinyou know this, but many of our
viewers may not and so my cousingot a cabin up in the mountains
(04:07):
and invited me and my sister togo with her over sometime over
the fall.
And so I asked Rob last nighthey, what do you think about me
going?
This sounds like a really greatopportunity.
And he was not loving it.
And so I internalized hisreaction to be like he is trying
to control me, he doesn't wantme to go, why is this happening?
(04:30):
And I didn't feel respected forme being able to make my own
decisions the way I wanted.
What the actual truth of it was.
Once I actually got curious andsought to understand his point
of view was, he said I honestlyI just don't love when you're
gone.
We were apart a lot in themilitary.
I would rather you be here, butI'm totally fine with you going
(04:53):
.
So I interpreted it one way.
My perception was completelydifferent and if I hadn't have
gone back and been curious abouthis reaction.
I would have painted thatnegative story in my mind and
felt disrespected and continuedto carry that resentment forward
when in actuality it wascompletely different.
Speaker 1 (05:13):
And let's carry that a step further.
Then, Now that you know hefeels alone when you're gone it
doesn't mean you can't go.
But if you came back and saidoh, by the way, two weeks after
that I'm going over there, andthen two weeks after that I'm
going over there, Then he wouldfeel disrespected because I've
already let you know that I feelalone when you're gone.
So it's not just a one-sidedthing, it's two ways.
Speaker 2 (05:33):
Right and this is another part of marriage right
spouse, what our spouse needs inorder to feel liked, loved and
respected.
Then it's on us to make surethat we incorporate that into
the future.
And that is what helps buildtrust going back to trust when
we make the decisions that arebest for the long term
(05:57):
relationship, for the marriage,not just what I want, not just
what he wants, but what's bestfor the relationship.
And so all of that plays inhere to feeling liked, loved and
respected and to making surethe perception of that is
occurring.
Speaker 1 (06:11):
And so, as you said earlier, you have to define the
terms to some degree,particularly love, because here
in the USA, where we are, thewords used for too many
different things.
I love ice cream, I love mymother, I love my daughter, I
love my wife those may betotally different emotions, or
at least a lot differentemotions.
And so when we talk about love,we'll use the research by
(06:31):
Robert Sternberg who's justbrilliant, who says that,
basically, love has threesubcomponents that make love.
One is called commitment,meaning I'm going to do what it
takes to keep the relationshipalive.
Another is passion, which has asexual dimension, but it's not
really about sex.
It's about the fact that wecrave oneness with each other.
(06:53):
And then the really big oneintimacy.
Now, again, it's not about sex,it's about openness,
transparency, vulnerability,which is all about trust.
The more I feel that I can beopen and honest with you about
what I think, what I believe,what I feel, what I do, and that
, even if you're not crazy aboutit as a matter of fact, you
(07:14):
might not even like some of thethings that I feel or believe
that you will still accept meanyway.
We don't have to have a hundredpercent agreement that you'll
still accept me anyway, then Ifeel loved.
But if I feel that I have to dosomething differently, believe
differently, whatever it mightbe, to get you to accept me,
(07:36):
then I don't feel loved.
Or maybe you said this way Ifeel loved only conditionally,
meaning I only feel loved whenI'm doing what you want me to do
.
So true love, kimberly, is kindof difficult because nobody's
perfect and the other person'snever going to completely
believe, think, feel and doeverything you want them to.
(07:57):
So how does that work into this?
Well, how does a marriage end?
It ends because one persondoesn't feel respected or loved
or liked.
So it's really not easy.
It's not easy at all.
Speaker 2 (08:11):
No, it's not easy, and that is something we will
talk about in a future episodewhere we talk about marriage
myths.
Right, Marriage is notnecessarily easy.
It takes work, but that's whyit is the most important earthly
relationship because it takeswork.
If it came easy, we probablywouldn't appreciate it as much,
invest in it as much, all ofthose things.
(08:33):
It takes intentionality.
Speaker 1 (08:37):
And it takes a level of equality.
It's called egalitarianmarriages, which means that if
one feels the other is acting orbelieving that they are
superior, this doesn't work.
Recently worked with a couplewhere he said you know, the
wife's just supposed to obey herhusband and she's like you know
, I'm happy for you to be thehead of the house.
(08:57):
That's fine with me, but I amnot your slave, I'm not your
child, and you'll have to treatme as if I'm an equal.
And he had been brought up in ahome where that didn't happen,
and so his expectation wasyou're subservient, I'm the boss
.
In that situation, how do youthink she felt?
Unloved, disliked, disrespected?
Which of the three?
Speaker 2 (09:18):
All of the above, but probably disrespect more than
anything, because all of asudden she doesn't have a voice.
And what do you do when youfeel like you can't speak for
yourself?
Or when you do, you're notheard.
You feel like you're out ofcontrol of everything.
Speaker 1 (09:35):
So let's run through a couple of things.
Our friend Dave Ramsey will saythe number one reason for the
divorce in America is finances,which we don't disagree with if
you're looking at symptoms.
So how does this fit with that?
Speaker 2 (09:48):
Right.
So finances are a directreflection of what I am giving
my life for right.
So if we think of it in apayment, we work to get paid and
the payment we bring home is,is, or the finance has brought
in.
So if my husband goes andspends, you know, $2,000 on a
(10:12):
new TV that we don't need, thenI am thinking do you know how
long it took me to work to payfor that that you just did?
And especially if there's noconversation.
If there's no, you know thenhow do you feel?
And especially if there's noconversation if there's no, you
know.
Speaker 1 (10:24):
So then how do you?
Speaker 2 (10:25):
feel Disrespected More than anything, disrespected
Because it would be.
I would feel unloved in adifferent type of situation.
Speaker 1 (10:33):
Okay, All right.
Well, we can apply this to alot of things and we're about
out of time, so let's hit acouple.
Sometimes people say, well, ourbiggest problems are in-laws,
but A lack of respect in themarriage.
Speaker 2 (10:49):
Yeah, because you're not standing up for your
spouse's wants, needs or desires.
Speaker 1 (10:54):
So the other spouse, the one who's actually blood kin
, should be the one standing upand protecting this person, or
this person feels disrespected.
So even if they have mismatchedsex drives same thing.
Speaker 2 (11:08):
Same thing.
But in all of this I think wehave to caveat it and say you
have to know and understand whatyour spouse's wants, needs and
desires are, because then youwon't know if you're
disrespecting them, if you don't.
Speaker 1 (11:23):
I think that we need to talk more about that.
We're out of time, so why don'twe do another program on the
hidden part of communicationthat people can do if they learn
how to do it, that can actuallyhelp all these things happen.
Speaker 2 (11:35):
I think that sounds like a great way to bring our
listeners back.
Speaker 1 (11:39):
Good, we hope you come back, because that'll be
our next episode.
Okay, based on what you guysare saying, how do we
communicate in such a way thatwe really understand each other
so that we can love, like andrespect?
Speaker 2 (11:51):
So, as we wrap up, let's talk about the key
takeaways from this episode, butbefore we do, be sure that you
like this podcast, subscribe toit.
If you're watching on YouTube,then please subscribe to the
channel.
Like the video, share it with afriend or family member who may
need it, and then we will jumpinto the key takeaways.
So the number one reason, orthe top three reasons we could
(12:13):
say, that most marriages failthat do fail in America all fall
under there is a lack of likelove or respect on one or both
spouses' part within themarriage, and this can look a
lot of different ways.
It can look like fighting overfinances or differences in sex
drive or issues with the in-laws, or we could continue going for
(12:36):
forever yeah.
But we do not have time.
But at the core, it's aboutunderstanding what am I doing to
show my spouse I like, love andrespect them in a way that they
perceive it and then, of course, hopefully your spouse doing
that back to you and that is oneof the best ways your spouse
doing that back to you and thatis one of the best ways to
divorce proof your marriageExactly.
(12:56):
Thank you, dr Beam, for joiningme.
We'll see you next week.
You.
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Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.