December 15, 2023 • 54 mins
Every four years Iowa takes its stage in the national spotlight as the United States presidential race starts to heat up. This first opportunity for voters to choose a candidate to run in the national election, the Iowa Caucuses have an outsized place in our political geography.
In this episode of ReligionWise, State Senator Sarah Trone Garriott and host Chip Gruen discuss many issues at the confluence of religion and politics. From the more diverse electorate than many would expect to Senator Trone Garriott’s unlikely path to state politics, today’s conversation provides context and local flavor to state politics and one politician who strives to make a difference in her own community.
Show Notes:
- Religion News Service: Iowa pastor says running for office is a test of faith (https://religionnews.com/2020/01/21/in-iowa-a-lutheran-pastor-campaigns-for-state-senate-as-a-democrat/)
- Des Moines Register: This Iowan's first wedding was to a pair of satanists. What that taught her about love: (https://www.desmoinesregister.com/story/entertainment/2023/03/27/what-a-wedding-for-satanists-taught-this-iowa-pastor-sarah-trone-garriott-about-love-storytellers/69924440007/)
- The Iowa Annual Conference of The United Methodist Church: Sen. Rev. Sarah Trone Garriott Encourages Laity to Counteract Christian Nationalism (https://www.iaumc.org/newsdetail/sen-rev-sarah-throne-garrett-encourages-laity-to-confront-christian-nationalism-18119210)
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Chip Gruen (00:03):
Welcome to ReligionWise. I'm your host Chip
Gruen. One of the central themesthat we consider on ReligionWise
is a question of religion andpublic discourse, that is to
say, within our public lives,right, not as individuals, in
our families in our owncommunities, but as we live
(00:24):
publicly. How do we talk aboutreligion? And it's one of my
contentions that we don't reallytalk about it particularly well,
we have this whole dictate thatit's not polite to talk about
religion and politics. And I'lltell you from extended family
conversations throughout myyouth, I can attest to the
wisdom of that. But it also hasa downside, it has a negative
(00:51):
consequence. That is that we'renot particularly good at talking
about religion or politics,leading to disagreement,
misunderstanding, fights, andthe polarization that we have in
our contemporary world. One ofthe ways in which we might have
been remiss on the podcast thusfar is that we have not had
policymakers. And I am happythat we will be able to
(01:13):
remediate that problem today.
I'm very happy to welcome SarahTrone Garriott who is a state
senator from Iowa, and she is atrained minister in the
Evangelical Lutheran Church ofAmerica. And so that dictate
about it being impolite to talkabout religion and politics,
we're going to violate both ofthose today, and talk about not
only religion and politics, butthe confluence between the two.
(01:36):
I think there are a few thingsthat make our guests today
really appropriate to the timeone is being in Iowa, going into
2024. We know that there is apresidential election, and that
because of the caucus system inIowa and the calendar, that the
population in that State have anout weighted influence on
(01:59):
presidential primaries. And so Ithink thinking a little bit
about Iowa about how that statefunctions about what that
population looks like. That's areally interesting project for
us right now. I think that'seven more the case, because as
you'll hear, Senator TroneGarriott has on two separate
occasion flipped state senateseat from being held by a
(02:24):
Republican member to to herselfto a Democratic member. And that
had that had to happen twice intwo consecutive elections
because of redistricting. And weknow the kinds of things that
can happen in thoseredistricting situations. I
think the other thing that isinteresting about Senator Trone
Garriott is her vocational path.
(02:48):
And she being a Lutheran I thinkis very comfortable and happy to
talk about vocation it is one ofthose big commonplaces of the
Lutheran tradition. But she issomeone who never really
intended to become a minister,it certainly wasn't a pipeline
situation. And then after that,never really intended to become
(03:09):
a politician. That was justsomething that grew organically
out of her own experiences andabout her desire to be involved
in public life. And in fact, Ithink she would say, to practice
the, the tenants of her faith tosee that how that faith sort of
works out is a part of policy,not something that should be
(03:29):
distinct from it. So for both ofthose reasons, I think that this
conversation representssomething very different than
we've done before. One of theother issues that, you know, I
face as as an educator and oneof the classes in fact, I just
got finished teaching my classon Christian traditions to a
group of undergraduates here atMuhlenberg College is
(03:50):
misunderstandings oroversimplifications of
Christianity or Christiantraditions as we like to talk
about it in the plural. If Itold you that the guest for
today is a state senator fromIowa, and in fact, not only a
state senator from Iowa, butsomeone who is a ordained clergy
member. I think that you verywell might have a lot of
(04:16):
preconceptions or prejudicesabout the type of Christianity
that is represented there. Justby sheer demographics and voting
patterns and thinking about theway that Iowa has tilted very
conservatively and right leaningin recent years. It would not be
(04:37):
out of the question, right toimagine that that guest would
would similarly be veryconservative and right leaning.
And one of the things that Ifind myself having to do when
I'm talking about Christianityto people who don't know a lot
about Christianity, or at leastonly know about their varieties
of Christianity is talk aboutthe diversity that is present
(05:01):
there as well, so that we knowthat there are Christian groups
who will work very hard for apro life agenda. But it is also
the case that we'll haveChristian groups who see it as a
part of their Christian mysidmission to work very hard for a
pro choice agenda. Likewisearound sexual and gender
(05:21):
diversity or any number ofsocial issues that are the
political footballs of thecontemporary situation. So with
that being said, it's a pleasureto welcome Sarah Trone Garriott
onto the podcast, not only forher experiences, and what she
(05:42):
can share with us about servingin that legislative role in the
2020s. But also because sherepresents a kind of progressive
Christianity, that is not alwayswhat people imagine when they
imagine people involved inpolicy and governance who also
happened to be Christian, orit's not what people imagine
(06:04):
when they think about someonewho sees their faith as a
motivating factor for theirinvolvement in policy and
governance. And I'm very happyto welcome Sarah Trone Garriott
to ReligionWise. Sarah TroneGarriott, thanks for appearing
(06:25):
on ReligionWise. We appreciateit.
Sarah Trone Garriott (06:27):
Thank you so much.
Chip Gruen (06:29):
So, as we just heard in the introduction, you have a
lot of titles. You're anordained Lutheran minister, you
serve as the coordinator ofinterfaith engagement at The Des
Moines Area Religious CouncilFood Pantry Network. And now
you're an Iowa State Senator.
Can you talk a little bit aboutyour vocational trajectory? How
did your career path turn fromthe pastoral to the political?
Sarah Trone Garriott (06:52):
So I never started out wanting to be a
minister, or a state legislator.
None of that was in my careerplan. It just kind of happened.
So I was an AmeriCorps VISTAvolunteer after college. And I
was working for a legal aidprogram on a domestic violence
project. And there were all ofthese religious issues that kept
coming up, specifically howreligious communities were not
(07:16):
being resources, or even beingobstacles for folks trying to
leave violent relationships. Andso I got very interested in
trying to educate thesereligious leaders about how to
do a better job for theircommunities. And then eventually
ended up deciding that I justneeded to become one to do the
job. A similar thing happenedwith politics. My state senator
(07:39):
invited me to come pray for thedaily prayer at the State
Senate. And I started payingmore attention to what was
happening in that chamber inthat building, I started getting
more involved in advocacy. Andwhile he was a very nice man, I
didn't like what I was seeing inhis votes in his actions. And so
I decided to run against him.
Chip Gruen (08:02):
Wow. So that must have been a tough decision.
Sarah Trone Garriott (08:05):
Well, it was over several years. So it
came about gradually. And themore involved in advocacy I got,
the more people I met, who wererunning for office, helping
others run for office. And Irealized that it didn't have to
be some other kind of person, itactually could be me. And I
think that was the same forbeing a faith leader is I always
(08:25):
thought, Oh, that's a differentkind of person than who I am and
then realized, I had the giftsto actually do that job quite
well. And that maybe I could doit better than some folks in the
role.
Chip Gruen (08:40):
So I want to get to some of your experiences as a,
as a legislator, I want to putthat on the back burner for a
minute, because particularly,we're on the cusp of a
presidential election year.
Obviously the Iowa caucusesserve an outsized role in that
process. And just to give acontext for your place within
the legislature, your place inthe in the State Senate, as well
(09:05):
as to help our listeners think alittle bit about the political
landscape in Iowa moregenerally. Can you give us a
little bit more about whatyou've seen, as a resident of
Iowa, now a legislator in Iowaabout what that political
context looks like and how itmight have changed over the
last, I don't know, decade ortwo.
Sarah Trone Garriott (09:28):
So I have lived in Iowa since 2013. So I
really only have first handexperience with Iowa over the
last 10 years. But everyoneknows about the Iowa caucuses.
And that is changing prettydramatically, at least for the
Democrats because the party isshifting that around. And so I
don't really know what that'sgoing to mean. For Iowa for the
(09:50):
Democratic Party. It's justgoing to be different. But all
that focus on the nationalpolitical scene, the
presidential elections, I thinkit's detracted a little bit from
people focusing on what'shappening in their local and
state government. And so whileI'll miss all of the media and
all of the candidates and allthe opportunities that come with
(10:12):
the caucus, I appreciate theopportunity to remind folks,
hey, a lot of the reallyimportant decisions are being
made at the state level. And wesee that with some federal
decisions, kicking issues downto the states. And for years,
the Republican Party has reallybeen focused on local elections,
state elections. And that'ssomething that all people all
(10:35):
parties need to be thinkingabout, because that's where it's
happening. So especially in thelast few years, a lot of my
neighbors are becoming moreaware of the really
consequential issues, andsometimes very divisive issues
that are being decided at thestate level. And they have a lot
of power, and they have a lot ofaccess to state level politics.
(10:55):
So I have been very focused onhow do I help people get
involved, be informed, use theirpower, because you can make a
big difference. Because ourstate government is so right
here, it's very accessible tothe people of Iowa.
Chip Gruen (11:11):
And it's my understanding that that over
time, the population of Iowa asa whole, or at least the way
that that has resulted in inelection results, that there's
been more of a push, I don'tknow if you'd say, towards
conservative leanings, or if youtake towards the Republican
(11:32):
Party, but Iowa has shifted alittle bit in the last
generation or so is that fair tosay?
Sarah Trone Garriott (11:38):
Yeah, so Iowa is a state that voted for
Obama, and then turned aroundand voted for Trump. And I think
it has, you know, it'sdefinitely there's been some
shifting party registrations,the rural areas are kind of
emptying out. And we're seeingmore folks living in our metro
areas. We just had redistrictingin '22. So that means that
(12:01):
things are a little bit morefair now. But for years, they
were not so fair, the ruralcommunities really had an
outsized impact, outsized impacton state elections. And so I
think it has a little bit moreto do with, Iowans just don't
like politicians necessarily.
They want people who feelauthentic to them, they want
(12:23):
folks that they can connect withthat there's a story that
somehow they, they can really,you know, just feel inspired by.
And, you know, for both of thosecandidates, there was something
there that folks resonated with.
And, you know, you know whoTrump is, I mean, he is
(12:45):
authentically who he is. And Ithink a lot of people really
appreciated that. But, you know,folks want somebody that they
have that emotional connectionto. And so I think it's possible
to have other candidatesrepresenting different values
who resonate with folks. And Ifeel like that's what I've tried
(13:06):
to do in my candidacy, and in mywork is connect with people
first, and help them, you know,feel like, I'm accessible, I'm
present to them. I'm a realperson. And I think that's what
they appreciate.
Chip Gruen (13:22):
So let's think a little bit more about your your
place in all of this in thatlarger context of not only Iowa
politics, but the landscape ofthe country generally. You won
your Senate seat, your stateSenate seat in 2020. More than
that, you were the onlycandidate statewide in Iowa to
turn a previously red stateblue. So given that you were
(13:46):
swimming against the streamhere, I mean, Iowa went for
Trump in 2020. So you were thiswas split ticket voting. Can you
tell us about what your messagewas to your constituents that,
you know, made them split thatticket that allowed you to sort
of swim upstream and turn aRepublican district into one
(14:06):
that was happy to vote for aDemocrat?
Sarah Trone Garriott (14:09):
So I've actually flipped two districts
in the last four years. So in2020, I ran and was one of the
few I think, maybe the only toflip a district in that year.
And then the redistrictingprocess meant that I had to move
a little further west and runagainst the state senate
president that year. And I wonthat election as well. And for
(14:32):
both of those elections, I mean,the timing was really right. The
political balance was shiftingin my favor, though, in both
races, it wasn't a slam dunk,and it was going to be pretty
hard. And in '22 the the numbersit's a it's a lean Republican
district. It's plus fiveregistrations in on the
(14:53):
Republican side. So I had to getfolks from the Republican Party
the independents to vote for meas well. But I think it goes
back to that idea that people inIowa really don't want
politicians, they want realpeople making these decisions
for them. And I was known in thecommunity as a minister, as a
(15:14):
nonprofit leader first. I had alot of connections in that
region. And I had made a lot ofreally positive connections with
folks because I was out doorknocking, especially in '22. '20
I couldn't because of thepandemic, but in '22, I was on
thousands, of doorsteps showingup for people talking to them.
(15:37):
And they could see that I wasworking my tail off. And that
was the biggest part of it was,I was showing up and talking to
folks and doing the work. And itreally paid off. And I was
paying attention toconstituencies that often get
overlooked. So I work with allof these diverse religious
communities in my day job. Andso I have some long standing
(15:59):
relationships with newer Iowans,diverse religious communities,
folks who often get ignored inthe electoral process. And these
are people who often will notvote in midterms or don't vote
down ballot in the presidentialyears. But because I have strong
connections, because I valuetheir presence in the community,
(16:21):
they matter to me, they votedfor me, and they showed up for
me. And I know that made adifference in my election.
Chip Gruen (16:28):
So can you tell us a little bit more about about your
district? I mean, I think it'ssafe to say that a lot of people
don't know very much about Iowa,we imagine, maybe some of the
statewide demographics are notreally reflective of the
district that you're describing.
So could you get us into alittle bit more than nitty
gritty of who these people areand what matters to them?
Sarah Trone Garriott (16:51):
So a lot of people think Iowa is so
white, but we do actually havequite a bit of diversity in our
state, and in this metro area,in particular. And so I am in
the growing edge of the suburbsof our Des Moines metro area, a
lot of people who areprofessionals, we've got quite a
(17:11):
bit of I guess I'd say whitecollar diversity. So we've got
people who are educated, who areworking in white collar jobs,
who've chosen to make their homehere for the schools for the
community, the quality of life,those those, those financial and
job opportunities. And so wehave folks who've moved to this
(17:32):
metro area, from all over thestate, from all over the
country, from all over theworld. And we also have a pretty
significant population of folkswho have been refugees. In Iowa,
we've got a long history ofthat. And so many of those folks
have stayed generations havebuilt their lives here, or I see
other people relocating fromother parts of the country and
(17:53):
gathering here in Iowa, becausethere's community for them. And
so, you know, there's a lot ofdiversity in Iowa, and in my
district in particular. And so Iwould see that when I was out
door knocking, I met the priestof the Coptic Orthodox Church
while I was out door knocking,he lives in my district. He's
(18:14):
from Egypt, originally. And weactually have a significant
population of folks from Egypt,living here in the metro area,
quite a few in my community.
Chip Gruen (18:23):
So you've mentioned already, that you felt a little
bit like your political life,the foundation for that was in
some of that pastoral work andsome of that community work. Can
you talk about some of thatinterfaith work you've done? And
how that affected the way youpursue your political goals? You
(18:45):
know, what are some of thelessons that you learned about
people in the communities thatyou represent? That carried
forward from, from thatdifferent vocation from that
pastoral vocation to yourpolitical office?
Sarah Trone Garriott (18:57):
Yeah, so my interfaith work is all about
showing up. I mean,relationships are the thing. You
can learn about a community froma book or from a documentary,
you can tour a building, butuntil you actually meet the
people, you don't reallyunderstand and you don't get to
grow in your understanding. Andso for years, I have been
(19:19):
showing up and buildingconnections with folks and in my
interfaith work, I createopportunities for other people
to get to know their neighbors.
And so that is something thatI'm known for is if you invite
me to something, I do my best toget there to be there. I try to
show up everywhere I can, youknow, even places that might be
a little uncomfortable for me,it's no big deal for me to be in
(19:40):
a gathering, where I'm the onlywhite person and nobody's
speaking English for two hours,it's fine, but that's just
something I'm used to. And so Ipractice that regularly getting
out of my bubble, spending timewith folks in their spaces,
because you really gotta meetpeople where they're at. And
then another piece from myinterfaith work is, you know, we
(20:02):
all have similarities, but wealso have differences. And those
differences can be reallysignificant. But we've always
got those opportunities toconnect around those
similarities. So I have a lot ofinteresting relationships with
groups that on some issues, yes,we don't agree. But there is
(20:23):
respect. There are connections,there are those times we work
together. So I try very hard notto count anyone out or not to
take anyone for granted.
Chip Gruen (20:35):
Yeah, so it's, I'm glad to hear you mentioned the,
what you say about similaritiesand differences. I've kind of in
my work thought for a long timethat the way that we talk about
difference is not alwayshealthy, right, by minimizing
it, you know, the discourses orrhetorics or about, you know,
people being fundamentally thesame, which on one level is
(20:57):
absolutely true. But if youdon't, you know, make room in
your, in your thinking about thevarieties of human experience
for difference, then you'rereally surprised when people
don't react the same way thatyou would so really heartened to
hear you talk about, you know,not not trying to sweep those
differences under the rug, butrecognizing them.
Sarah Trone Garriott (21:17):
Well, and it's important to be able to
manage your discomfort, becausewe're gonna encounter
challenging situations,difficult conversations, if
we're working with folks who aredifferent than us, really, with
anybody. But it's helpful tohave that practice so that you
don't shy away from thoserelationships, just because that
(21:39):
potential is always there.
Chip Gruen (21:41):
So to go back to the events that got you into
politics, and that led up toyour your serving in the Iowa
State Senate. I'm imagining whatit must have been like after you
won your race. What was thislike? You know, considering that
this was not your plan, butsomething that you felt
(22:01):
compelled to do? Because you sawthat it needed to be done? What
was that transition, like as youmoved into this role in public
service?
Sarah Trone Garriott (22:11):
So the thing about election nights is
they are awful for candidates. Imean, you just truly feel sick
all day. And in 2020, that firstelection was really terrible,
because the results just camerolling in that everyone else
had lost decisively. And wecouldn't find my results. And a
friend from the Sikh communityactually texted me and said, you
(22:33):
won by 167 votes, I was like,what, and I had been pulling
ahead by six points, and so thatI had only won by just barely
it, it was so shocking. And thenext day, I found out that my
opponent was going to put methrough a recount. So it, it
dragged on for a couple moreweeks, I never really
celebrated. And I think therewere so many folks disappointed
(22:56):
by the results, they kind offorgot about my win, at least in
the party. So you know, I cameinto a very different situation
than I had imagined in 2020, wethought we would have a blue
wave, we thought we would have adifferent prep, you know, a
different situation to to workwith. And it was worse than it
(23:17):
had been before. So, you know, Ireally had to adjust my
expectations for what waspossible. And really had to
reorient myself about what weremy goals, because there's always
something you can do. And thereare always opportunities, but
they just weren't going to betaking back the majority in one
(23:39):
of the chambers or being able topass the legislation we wanted.
Chip Gruen (23:42):
Yeah. So then beyond that, so you are adjusting
expectations. You've just, youknow, unseeded, what for the
second election in a row,somebody who had, you know, been
long standing in the in thechamber. How are you received by
the other legislators from youryour party or from the other
(24:05):
party? What was the experiencelike of actually, you know,
walking in, you know, in eitherelection for the first time.
Sarah Trone Garriott (24:12):
So the very first time, I hadn't been
in rooms of people for a verylong time because of COVID. And
so I was kind of shocked by thatbeing in the chamber with
everyone for the swearing in,but it was the whitest, oldest,
male-est room I had been in in avery long time. And I said, Wow,
this doesn't look like Iowa. Andso one of those opportunities
(24:36):
that I found right away was howcan I bring in the people that I
know like, get them to theCapitol, get them in the
process, get their voices herein the chamber? What were those
opportunities? And you know, allthe legislators are coming from
such different backgrounds, andit's been a challenge to get to
know the Republican legislatorsbecause even at the state level,
(24:58):
we have some division. And sofolks have been kind of confused
about me being a minister beinga woman, you know, seeing
Christianity in a very differentway than they do. Some of my
Democratic legislators, I think,maybe are also a little weirded
out by me because I'm areligious person, but I'm also a
(25:19):
Democrat. And, you know, soyeah, in both places, I'm kind
of kind of an oddity.
Chip Gruen (25:28):
Yeah, that's, that's, yeah, absolutely. I
just, you know, finished up,we're in our last week of
classes here at Muhlenberg andjust finished up my Christian
traditions class, and I alwaysand always in the plural, right,
there is not one Christianity.
And that surprises students,right, that you can have people
across the religious landscape,or the Christian landscape, for
(25:50):
that matter, who think verydifferently about, you know,
political issues, social issues,etc. I mean, so. So you ran into
that full steam ahead in what Iwould presume to be a pretty
conservative, pretty whatevangelical kind of Christianity
in that chamber?
Sarah Trone Garriott (26:09):
Yeah. So the Republicans that I know, for
the most part, are verycomfortable talking about their
faith, being public, in theirfaith, sharing prayers in the
legislature, you know, becausethat happens every day, and
people can volunteer to sign up,but a lot of my Democratic
colleagues do not. But I, youknow, in my interfaith work, you
(26:32):
know, I understand that I canappreciate and respect and be
interested in my neighbor'sfaith. And it's not something
that is a threat to my faith andit actually can be an
inspiration it can make make mestronger, in my own particular
beliefs. And, you know, so it,you know, for me, it's like,
(26:53):
okay, how can we really giveopportunities for the religious
diversity of our state, and thenon religious perspectives as
well, you know, in these publicrealms, because we're only often
hearing one kind of way of beingreligious in politics. And
there's so much more out therethat doesn't get a voice.
Chip Gruen (27:15):
So when we first met one another at the American
Academy of Religion AnnualMeetings, we you told me
actually a little bit about thattradition of the Iowa State
Senate opening with prayer, andthat that was a tradition that
you had a lot of feelings about,can you can you tell us about
(27:36):
how you interacted with that?
Sarah Trone Garriott (27:38):
So, you know, for a lot of state
legislatures, there will be aprayer. This is something that
hasn't happened since thebeginning of our state, I think
it really only came about in the1980s. So it's always kind of
interesting to look at thathistory and say, why did why did
that start happening? I don'tknow the answer to that. But
it's this is the way it is,every legislative day in the
(28:01):
house, and the Senate startswith a prayer, and previously
used to be able to invitesomeone, a member of the
community or religious leader toactually come and say that
prayer. So that's what happenedwhen I was invited by my
senator, I was standing on thefloor of the Senate chamber,
sharing that prayer in front ofeveryone. Now, we can't do that
(28:22):
we're not allowed since COVID.
So the senators themselves arethe only ones allowed to pray.
And I want to bring in thoseother voices. That that
diversity that is not really whoI am. But I want to give my
neighbors a chance to be heardin that moment. So I invite
religious leaders or members ofreligious communities to write a
(28:43):
prayer for me, I invite them tobe there in the gallery when I
read it, I note who it's from, Ishare a little something about
that community, and share thatprayer. And I've worked really
hard, you know, I prioritize theprayers from diverse religious
communities that are not myChristian background. So it's
pretty rare that I share aChristian prayer. And when I do,
(29:06):
it's often one of thoseChristian communities that you
don't think of like the CopticOrthodox Church.
Chip Gruen (29:14):
And when you did this, when you took this
initiative to include thosevoices, in the in these prayers
include the voices of some ofyour constituents who are
otherwise not represented, howwas that received? What was the
the reaction to that, thatinclusion?
Sarah Trone Garriott (29:35):
So one of the first prayers that I shared
was actually a poem written by aMuslim constituent young woman I
had worked with through myinterfaith work, and it had all
of these attributes for God inArabic that I read those words
of she helped me withpronunciation, and it was kind
of a scandal. I got added to thejihad watch website. Um, There
(30:00):
were some conservative blogsthat wrote stories about me. And
then we had some people cc'ingall legislators saying, How dare
this happen in the Iowa Senate.
And I had one legislator whoreplied-all because folks are
really bad about doing that,saying that he basically agreed
with the person making thecomplaint. And I could tell that
it really bothered him that hedid not understand the
(30:23):
connections between the Jewish,Christian and Muslim communities
that they are Abrahamic faithsthat they have some common
origins, and overlap, even inpeople and ideas. And so I had
the opportunity to talk with himabout that, I don't think that
I've changed his mind. But it'sdefinitely given me the
(30:46):
opportunity to have someconversations with folks. But
there's something about bringingthat diversity into that
traditionally, Christian prayertime, that I think is really
important, because when peoplereact strongly to it, it reminds
me how much it matters, to makeit clear that, hey, if we're
going to have a prayer time, itshould be for all people. These
(31:09):
people are part of ourcommunity, they live in Iowa,
their religious freedom mattersas well. And so it makes me even
more motivated to continue to doit. But I don't just experience
pushback on that, from theconservative side of things. I
have a lot of progressive folkssaying How dare you pray, you
should be protesting the factthat there's prayer, you should
(31:31):
be doing this or that. But Ifeel like from for what is true
to me, and how I want to spendmy political capital, I think
this is a better approach forme. And I think it's, it's, it's
a way to honor my neighbors. AndI hope that by being present in
that chamber, it inspires themto think about state government.
(31:54):
It's, it's just a lot of fun toinvite my neighbors down to the
capitol and involve them in thisway. And they really enjoy that
opportunity. You know, it'ssomething that I can give them,
when I can't pass thelegislation that I want, I can
include them, I can honor them,I can share about them to my
colleagues in the legislature.
Chip Gruen (32:19):
So you know, the way that you've described your
district, I mean, you'vementioned Sikh community
members, for example, and youknow, that there are certainly,
you know, communities that arefurther afield from Christianity
than Islam. What was it aboutthat particular prayer that was
(32:40):
so offensive? I mean, was ittheology? Was it the use of
Arabic language? Was it just therepresentation, this different
worldview? I mean, one couldimagine I mean, as you say,
there is this common denominatorof the shared Hebrew bible old
testament tradition, right? Theidea that these are Abrahamic
(33:02):
faiths that, that worship thesame God, I can almost
understand it more. If it was,you know, even, you know, more
farther afield like Hindu orSikh or Buddhist? What was it
about this, you know, inclusionof the Muslim community, do you
think that was so offensive thatdrove people even to put you on
(33:25):
this watch list?
Sarah Trone Garriott (33:27):
So there are folks in the community that
are just very biased towardscertain religious groups. And so
there's just a lot of animositytowards the Muslim community,
which is very unfair. I thinkthere's a lot of folks who just
don't understand. They don'trealize that there is this
relationship, this connectionbetween Judaism, Christianity,
(33:53):
and Islam. That, a lot of ourneighbors are just not educated
about it. So I heard peopleexpressing things about the
Muslim community that were justnot true at all. And they did
not understand the roots ofthose Abrahamic faiths. And so
it was an opportunity for me totry to share with them about
(34:15):
that. But there's this sensethat the only real religion is
Christianity, and the only realChristianity is a certain
variety of Christianity. And soevery time I share a prayer from
a different community, it reallychallenges folks who are feeling
that way. And I know it, itmakes makes some folks pretty
(34:38):
uncomfortable.
Chip Gruen (34:40):
You know, I think, given how you described your,
your constituency, I would besurprised if there wasn't, say a
Hindu temple society. I mean,that's even more far afield than
than Islam. Do you think that itis about that relative distance
from Christianity or do youthink there's something in
particular about Islam that waskind of triggering for for this
for reaction?
Sarah Trone Garriott (35:01):
You know, I just feel that the way the
media has portrayed the Muslimcommunity, you know, those kind
of deep seated biases that cameout of September 11. There's,
there's just, you know, there'smore negative resonances that
folks have. And often in theMuslim community, you know,
(35:24):
folks might dress differently.
The women might wear the hijab.
And so that is unsettling tofolks, because it's just so
different. But I know, we'vealso seen some pretty strong
anti Asian bias in the last fewyears as well. And so, you know,
when I'm inviting folks from theAsian community to participate,
(35:46):
I know that that that's there,too. And for the Sikh community,
you know, they wear the turban,I've a lot of people don't
understand who they are. Andthey experienced a lot of bias,
violence even after September11, as well.
Chip Gruen (36:04):
Yeah, which is just the poster child for religious
ignorance, right, that peopleresponded to the Sikh community
the way that they did afterSeptember 11. I mean, obviously,
this doesn't have anything to dowith Islam, not that it's okay
to respond to Muslims negativelyafter September 11 either, but,
you know, simply because someonewears a different headdress,
(36:27):
right, wears the turban, youknow, people imagine them as as
somehow being connected to thisthing that was scary, and other,
and you know, like I say, aposter child for, for why we
need more religious literacy inthis country, I think.
Sarah Trone Garriott (36:43):
Many of our neighbors don't even think
about the significant Indianpopulation we have in the metro
area, they don't, they don'trealize that we do have a large
temple outside the metro areathat we've got two Sikh temples
here. Because they're, they'rethere, but you have to kind of
go out of your way to drive pastthem. And so they're there, but
(37:04):
they just might not realize it.
Chip Gruen (37:07):
Yeah, it's interesting. And in my work here
in the Lehigh Valley, you know,I, I think I've run into into
some of the same things, rightto make people like there's
certain kinds of religiousdiversity that people are aware
of, and certain kinds that youhave to have to show right have
to demonstrate, you know, and Ithink it is one of these ways
(37:29):
that we are trained that wethink in percentages, you know,
if x percent, of people identifyas Y, X and Y percent, identify
as Z, right, maybe you get downto that .5%, and you just don't
care anymore, you know, or thatpoint, 1.2%, and you just don't
care anymore, because it's not asuper significant number of
(37:49):
people in your community? But atleast from our perspective, here
in the Institute for Religiousand Cultural Understanding, you
know, it's not about the numbersof people but the variety of
beliefs and practices andworldviews that we want to
expose people to it sounds likeyou have a pretty similar
attitude.
Sarah Trone Garriott (38:08):
Well, and, you know, folks are just not
used to seeing these religiouscommunities in these spaces,
because we have a majority whiteChristian legislature. And, you
know, the folks who had beenoffering prayers, for the most
(38:28):
part were those white Christianlegislators. And so it, it's,
it's been a change, because I'mpretty active in offering
prayers, I try to do it severaltimes a year, because I've got a
lot of communities that I'd loveto give the opportunity to. And
as a Christian leader, I thinkit's really important for me to
(38:48):
talk about these communities andshow them in a positive light.
Because in my interfaith work,I'm inspired by my neighbors,
and how they live their faith. Ifeel that getting to know my
neighbors and respecting themand appreciating them actually
makes my faith stronger, that Idon't have to see the faith of
(39:09):
others as a threat. And it'snot, you know, it's challenging
me to think about my faith, butit doesn't, you know, it doesn't
challenge me in a way that hurtsmy faith.
Chip Gruen (39:23):
So you mentioned that you like to include, you
know, these neighbors from otherreligious traditions in this,
this ritual in this prayer, inlieu of, you know, because you
feel a little bit, you know,remiss that you can't pass the
legislation you would want topass. Do you have any examples
(39:46):
of the kinds of legislation thatyou feel like would be
beneficial to Iowa into thesecommunities that you have been
unsuccessful in passing, giventhe climate in the in the
legislature?
Sarah Trone Garriott (39:57):
So every state legislature works
differently, and in Iowa, ifyou're in the minority party,
and you file a bill, it neverhas to get a hearing, it can
just go in a drawer. And so it'sreally the prerogative of the
majority party, what bills get apublic hearing, everything does
not have to get its opportunityto be heard. And so for me, I am
(40:22):
really concerned about healthand human services issues, we
have not expanded Medicaidpostpartum care for 12 months,
which a lot of states have donethat. And, and so that's an
opportunity to really care for alot of lower income folks,
there's, gosh, almost 40% ofIowa births happen on Medicaid.
And so to make sure that, youknow, those parents have care
(40:45):
that they're, they're gettingaccess to care, that makes that
child healthier, as well. And sothat's, that's a big one for me.
I really want to make sure thatour public school system is as
strong as it possibly could be.
But unfortunately, in the lastfew years, we've seen a lot of
legislation that really attackspublic schools, makes it harder
for them to have diversematerials, really just puts our
(41:08):
educators under a microscope ifthey're going to be talking
about diversity, which is thatthat's not good for our whole
community. But that also makes,it makes it harder on our
diverse communities as well. Andthe funding for our public
schools has not kept up withinflation for the last 10 years.
(41:28):
So that means each year they'regetting an effective cut. And,
you know, most of my neighbors,they they moved to this
community because of good publicschools, and they are very good.
But every year, the schools aredoing more with less. And it's
really having an impact acrossthe entire state. And so I want
to make sure that everyone, nomatter what their background is,
(41:51):
no matter where they came from,they have good opportunities in
Iowa to be healthy to geteducated to have a future here.
And I also really want to makesure that our state government
is sending a message to peoplethat they're welcome here. And
unfortunately, we've seen a lotof legislative action that tells
people from diverse communitiesthat no we really don't want you
(42:14):
here, and I've had friendsmoving away. As a result of
that. And the GLBTQ is communityhas really been targeted, in the
last two years. And there's alot of folks from diverse
religious backgrounds, differentracial or cultural or language
backgrounds that are alsofeeling feeling that discomfort
(42:36):
too.
Chip Gruen (42:39):
So you talked about some of the initiatives that
you're interested in, I mean,health care and education, I
mean, those benefit Christians,Muslims, Hindus equally right?
You know, why do you think yourun into the problems that you
do when you're wanting moresupport for programs that just
(43:00):
benefit humans?
Sarah Trone Garriott (43:02):
Well, there there are some differing
ideas about how we should spendour resources, what really
benefits the community. But evenwhen we're talking about feeding
people, it's it's kind ofamazing to me that I have
colleagues who are very publicabout their Christian faith.
(43:24):
They might host Bible studies inthe capitol they like to pray in
public. And yet, feeding peopleis something that we really
disagree on. When you look atthe Christian scriptures, you
know, there are two miraclesthat show up in all four
(43:45):
Gospels. The first one is theresurrection. And the second is
the feeding of the multitudes. Imean, what could be more
important in our faith andfeeding people in need? And I
have Christian colleagues whosay, Nope, we are not going to
(44:05):
do that. They need to go out andget jobs there. They don't
deserve to be fed, unlessthey're, they're doing this that
or the other thing, we can'ttrust people who say they need
food, which is not what Jesuscommands the disciples, in the
synoptics, at least, you know,they say, send them away Jesus.
(44:27):
And Jesus says, No, you givethem something to eat.
Chip Gruen (44:30):
So this podcast, ReligionWise, and our work here
at the Institute generally isinterested in the place of
religion and public life, rightthe way that religion is
imagined, in the publicconversation. Given that you now
have a foot firmly both inreligious leadership and
political leadership. What isyour perspective? And maybe
(44:53):
how's that changed on thisconfluence of religion and
politics? How do you think aboutthat intersection differently
than you might have a few yearsago?
Sarah Trone Garriott (45:02):
So I'm a Lutheran. And we are kind of
awkward, uncomfortable aboutthinking about politics, and
religion that comes from ourhistory. And I think it's good
to be wary, to be thoughtfulabout your boundaries, because
there are opportunities forpolitical power to corrupt
(45:26):
religious practice and faith.
And there are real problemswith, you know, using the power
and resources of the state topromote one religion over
another. And so I firmly believethat both politics and religion
are simply about how we livetogether as a community. And so,
(45:50):
you know, the matters of faithdo speak to the decisions we
make in our governments. And weshould be thinking about how do
we faithfully engage in thatcivic life. And so I've had a
lot of faith communities, a lotof churches, especially reaching
out to me and saying, you know,how do we do this in an
(46:13):
appropriate way, because we'rereally uncomfortable with being
people of faith in these publicrealms, we're really
uncomfortable with talking aboutpolitical engagements in our
church community. There'snothing wrong with being
political, it's being partisanthat's the problem. And the
thing about faithfulness is itwill always cut in a way that's
kind of challenging anduncomfortable for you. And so
(46:36):
you, you know, you, you're goingto have to look at yourself and
your beliefs and your politicaldecisions in a in a in a
challenging and hard way. Ifyou're truly being faithful,
it's not going to all feel easyand great.
Chip Gruen (46:57):
So I think on that note, we've talked a little bit
about some of the struggles,right, some of the loggerheads
that you've come to. And, youknow, we all know that that is
not simply a function of theIowa State Legislature that this
is everywhere. And I think a lotof people are really discouraged
(47:18):
about the state of our countryright now. And maybe even worse,
they're discouraged andpessimistic, that there is any
hope that there's a way out ofour polarization and division
and room to heal and move on.
What do you think about thefuture? Are you hopeful that
there is a path forward fromthis place that we find
(47:39):
ourselves in now?
Sarah Trone Garriott (47:42):
Ah, yes, I was a hospital chaplain at
Children's Memorial Hospital inChicago for two years. And I
know that even in the worstsituations, where the is the the
worst possible outcome that willhappen, there's always the
opportunity to make thingsbetter. So we always have the
(48:02):
opportunity to, to do something,make things better, in any
situation, so that that gives mesome hope from those
experiences. And thoseopportunities, they can really
matter, they can really make adifference for people, even if
it's not the big thing, or thebetter outcome that you wanted.
(48:24):
Another thing from my interfaithwork is that I know we need to
practice being uncomfortable. Alot of times, when folks talk
about wanting to overcomedivision, and have, you know,
across the aisle conversationsand relationships, they want it
to be free from discomfort. Andthat's not really possible,
(48:47):
because then we can't talk aboutthe things that are really
important and hard. So I thinkas a culture, as a society, we
have some work to do inpracticing, practicing how to
have challenging conversationsand be in relationship with
folks who are different. Andbeing out of our comfort zone.
(49:09):
Because so much about our life,we can pick and choose and
design the way that we prefer.
And, and, and we need to havemore engagement with folks who
are different. There aren't alot of public spaces that are
throwing us together in thatway. Religious communities can
be one of those ways, but oftenwe're self selecting to the
community that feels morealigned with our values, which
(49:31):
makes sense, but then we mightnot be meeting people who are
different and remembering thatwe're all human beings together.
Chip Gruen (49:42):
Yeah, it seems you know, you think about I liked
what you said about how thereare not a lot of public
institutions that that expose usto that difference. I mean, you
know, one of the things youdrive to the suburbs and you
notice, right that a lot ofpeople have a swimming pool or a
playground in their backyard.
or, you know, order books fromAmazon or whatever? And to the
detriment maybe of the publicpool, of the public playground
(50:05):
or the public library. It seemslike maybe maybe this is
something to continue to thinkabout, as we think about what
our public spaces look like andhow much we're supporting them.
Because as you say, I mean,religious institutions that
might have the best intentions.
I mean, I think it was MartinLuther King who said, No,
(50:26):
nowhere is United States moresegregated, or at no time is the
United States more segregatedthan on a Sunday morning.
Sarah Trone Garriott (50:33):
And so a lot of work in my day job in the
nonprofit world is aboutcreating opportunities for
people to get to know theirneighbors and go places outside
their comfort zone. In mylegislative work, I try to bring
some of that to my colleagues,but I'm always pushing myself to
get out into the communities.
I'm showing up anything that Iget invited to all these
(50:56):
different communities, and thenshowing up on people's doorsteps
trying to talk to them face toface where I can find them. So I
feel like as a legislator, Ireally need to work hard to do
that. So I can connect with allthese different aspects of my
constituency in my community.
Chip Gruen (51:17):
Yeah, I'm with you about you know, going where
you're invited and being inthose public or quasi public
spaces, you know, to beuncomfortable. You will not
convince me to go door to doorthough. I'm afraid I draw the
line there. So you're stronger,you're stronger there than I am,
I'm afraid.
Sarah Trone Garriott (51:33):
So door to door. I actually really enjoy
it. And when I'm feelingdiscouraged, the thing that
helps me the most is getting outinto my community. Because what
you see on social media and inthe news is not really what's
going on on the ground level.
And there's something reallywonderful about just talking to
your neighbors. Most people arehappy to meet me every once in a
(51:57):
while I have some badexperiences. But for the most
part it's it's really affirmingand encouraging to get out
there.
Chip Gruen (52:09):
So what and maybe you won't be able to answer this
but or maybe you'll answer itand it won't come true, but what
do you think is next for SarahTrone Garriott? Professionally
and or politically? Where doesthe road lead to from here?
Sarah Trone Garriott (52:26):
I feel like I'm constantly in a midlife
crisis. Always asking myselfthat question. I don't know what
the answer is. I never plannedto become a minister. I never
planned to leave parish and workin the nonprofit world. I never
planned to run for office, Icertainly never planned to live
in Iowa. But life is this seriesof opportunities callings for me
(52:53):
that I see a way that I can beof service. And I get some
nudges in that direction. So mynext thing is I've got to run
again in 2024. Get through thatelection, and I will get my
first full four year term. Andthen maybe I'll have a little
bit of a breather to think aboutwhat's next.
Chip Gruen (53:15):
All right, that sounds like as good a plan as
any I think my dad used to sayhumans make plans and God laughs
And so maybe maybe just one stepat a time is the best way
forward.
Sarah Trone Garriott (53:26):
Yeah.
Chip Gruen (53:27):
Well, thank you so much for coming on ReligionWise,
this has been great. I thinkyou're the first policymaker who
has made an appearance and we'retalking about the influence of
religion and public life. Idon't know of a better place to
do it. So we really appreciateyour time.
Sarah Trone Garriott (53:41):
Yeah, thank you.
Chip Gruen (53:45):
This has been ReligionWise a podcast produced
by the Institute for Religiousand Cultural Understanding of
Muhlenberg College. ReligionWiseis produced and directed by
Christine Flicker. For moreinformation about additional
programming, or to make aninquiry about a speaking
engagement, please visit ourwebsite at
religionandculture.com. Thereyou'll find our contact
(54:05):
information, links to otherprogramming and have the
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subscribe to ReligionWisewherever you get your podcasts.
We look forward to seeing younext time.
Welcome to ReligionWise. I'm your host Chip
Gruen. One of the central themesthat we consider on ReligionWise
is a question of religion andpublic discourse, that is to
say, within our public lives,right, not as individuals, in
our families in our owncommunities, but as we live
(00:24):
publicly. How do we talk aboutreligion? And it's one of my
contentions that we don't reallytalk about it particularly well,
we have this whole dictate thatit's not polite to talk about
religion and politics. And I'lltell you from extended family
conversations throughout myyouth, I can attest to the
wisdom of that. But it also hasa downside, it has a negative
(00:51):
consequence. That is that we'renot particularly good at talking
about religion or politics,leading to disagreement,
misunderstanding, fights, andthe polarization that we have in
our contemporary world. One ofthe ways in which we might have
been remiss on the podcast thusfar is that we have not had
policymakers. And I am happythat we will be able to
(01:13):
remediate that problem today.
I'm very happy to welcome SarahTrone Garriott who is a state
senator from Iowa, and she is atrained minister in the
Evangelical Lutheran Church ofAmerica. And so that dictate
about it being impolite to talkabout religion and politics,
we're going to violate both ofthose today, and talk about not
only religion and politics, butthe confluence between the two.
(01:36):
I think there are a few thingsthat make our guests today
really appropriate to the timeone is being in Iowa, going into
2024. We know that there is apresidential election, and that
because of the caucus system inIowa and the calendar, that the
population in that State have anout weighted influence on
(01:59):
presidential primaries. And so Ithink thinking a little bit
about Iowa about how that statefunctions about what that
population looks like. That's areally interesting project for
us right now. I think that'seven more the case, because as
you'll hear, Senator TroneGarriott has on two separate
occasion flipped state senateseat from being held by a
(02:24):
Republican member to to herselfto a Democratic member. And that
had that had to happen twice intwo consecutive elections
because of redistricting. And weknow the kinds of things that
can happen in thoseredistricting situations. I
think the other thing that isinteresting about Senator Trone
Garriott is her vocational path.
(02:48):
And she being a Lutheran I thinkis very comfortable and happy to
talk about vocation it is one ofthose big commonplaces of the
Lutheran tradition. But she issomeone who never really
intended to become a minister,it certainly wasn't a pipeline
situation. And then after that,never really intended to become
(03:09):
a politician. That was justsomething that grew organically
out of her own experiences andabout her desire to be involved
in public life. And in fact, Ithink she would say, to practice
the, the tenants of her faith tosee that how that faith sort of
works out is a part of policy,not something that should be
(03:29):
distinct from it. So for both ofthose reasons, I think that this
conversation representssomething very different than
we've done before. One of theother issues that, you know, I
face as as an educator and oneof the classes in fact, I just
got finished teaching my classon Christian traditions to a
group of undergraduates here atMuhlenberg College is
(03:50):
misunderstandings oroversimplifications of
Christianity or Christiantraditions as we like to talk
about it in the plural. If Itold you that the guest for
today is a state senator fromIowa, and in fact, not only a
state senator from Iowa, butsomeone who is a ordained clergy
member. I think that you verywell might have a lot of
(04:16):
preconceptions or prejudicesabout the type of Christianity
that is represented there. Justby sheer demographics and voting
patterns and thinking about theway that Iowa has tilted very
conservatively and right leaningin recent years. It would not be
(04:37):
out of the question, right toimagine that that guest would
would similarly be veryconservative and right leaning.
And one of the things that Ifind myself having to do when
I'm talking about Christianityto people who don't know a lot
about Christianity, or at leastonly know about their varieties
of Christianity is talk aboutthe diversity that is present
(05:01):
there as well, so that we knowthat there are Christian groups
who will work very hard for apro life agenda. But it is also
the case that we'll haveChristian groups who see it as a
part of their Christian mysidmission to work very hard for a
pro choice agenda. Likewisearound sexual and gender
(05:21):
diversity or any number ofsocial issues that are the
political footballs of thecontemporary situation. So with
that being said, it's a pleasureto welcome Sarah Trone Garriott
onto the podcast, not only forher experiences, and what she
(05:42):
can share with us about servingin that legislative role in the
2020s. But also because sherepresents a kind of progressive
Christianity, that is not alwayswhat people imagine when they
imagine people involved inpolicy and governance who also
happened to be Christian, orit's not what people imagine
(06:04):
when they think about someonewho sees their faith as a
motivating factor for theirinvolvement in policy and
governance. And I'm very happyto welcome Sarah Trone Garriott
to ReligionWise. Sarah TroneGarriott, thanks for appearing
(06:25):
on ReligionWise. We appreciateit.
Sarah Trone Garriott (06:27):
Thank you so much.
Chip Gruen (06:29):
So, as we just heard in the introduction, you have a
lot of titles. You're anordained Lutheran minister, you
serve as the coordinator ofinterfaith engagement at The Des
Moines Area Religious CouncilFood Pantry Network. And now
you're an Iowa State Senator.
Can you talk a little bit aboutyour vocational trajectory? How
did your career path turn fromthe pastoral to the political?
Sarah Trone Garriott (06:52):
So I never started out wanting to be a
minister, or a state legislator.
None of that was in my careerplan. It just kind of happened.
So I was an AmeriCorps VISTAvolunteer after college. And I
was working for a legal aidprogram on a domestic violence
project. And there were all ofthese religious issues that kept
coming up, specifically howreligious communities were not
(07:16):
being resources, or even beingobstacles for folks trying to
leave violent relationships. Andso I got very interested in
trying to educate thesereligious leaders about how to
do a better job for theircommunities. And then eventually
ended up deciding that I justneeded to become one to do the
job. A similar thing happenedwith politics. My state senator
(07:39):
invited me to come pray for thedaily prayer at the State
Senate. And I started payingmore attention to what was
happening in that chamber inthat building, I started getting
more involved in advocacy. Andwhile he was a very nice man, I
didn't like what I was seeing inhis votes in his actions. And so
I decided to run against him.
Chip Gruen (08:02):
Wow. So that must have been a tough decision.
Sarah Trone Garriott (08:05):
Well, it was over several years. So it
came about gradually. And themore involved in advocacy I got,
the more people I met, who wererunning for office, helping
others run for office. And Irealized that it didn't have to
be some other kind of person, itactually could be me. And I
think that was the same forbeing a faith leader is I always
(08:25):
thought, Oh, that's a differentkind of person than who I am and
then realized, I had the giftsto actually do that job quite
well. And that maybe I could doit better than some folks in the
role.
Chip Gruen (08:40):
So I want to get to some of your experiences as a,
as a legislator, I want to putthat on the back burner for a
minute, because particularly,we're on the cusp of a
presidential election year.
Obviously the Iowa caucusesserve an outsized role in that
process. And just to give acontext for your place within
the legislature, your place inthe in the State Senate, as well
(09:05):
as to help our listeners think alittle bit about the political
landscape in Iowa moregenerally. Can you give us a
little bit more about whatyou've seen, as a resident of
Iowa, now a legislator in Iowaabout what that political
context looks like and how itmight have changed over the
last, I don't know, decade ortwo.
Sarah Trone Garriott (09:28):
So I have lived in Iowa since 2013. So I
really only have first handexperience with Iowa over the
last 10 years. But everyoneknows about the Iowa caucuses.
And that is changing prettydramatically, at least for the
Democrats because the party isshifting that around. And so I
don't really know what that'sgoing to mean. For Iowa for the
(09:50):
Democratic Party. It's justgoing to be different. But all
that focus on the nationalpolitical scene, the
presidential elections, I thinkit's detracted a little bit from
people focusing on what'shappening in their local and
state government. And so whileI'll miss all of the media and
all of the candidates and allthe opportunities that come with
(10:12):
the caucus, I appreciate theopportunity to remind folks,
hey, a lot of the reallyimportant decisions are being
made at the state level. And wesee that with some federal
decisions, kicking issues downto the states. And for years,
the Republican Party has reallybeen focused on local elections,
state elections. And that'ssomething that all people all
(10:35):
parties need to be thinkingabout, because that's where it's
happening. So especially in thelast few years, a lot of my
neighbors are becoming moreaware of the really
consequential issues, andsometimes very divisive issues
that are being decided at thestate level. And they have a lot
of power, and they have a lot ofaccess to state level politics.
(10:55):
So I have been very focused onhow do I help people get
involved, be informed, use theirpower, because you can make a
big difference. Because ourstate government is so right
here, it's very accessible tothe people of Iowa.
Chip Gruen (11:11):
And it's my understanding that that over
time, the population of Iowa asa whole, or at least the way
that that has resulted in inelection results, that there's
been more of a push, I don'tknow if you'd say, towards
conservative leanings, or if youtake towards the Republican
(11:32):
Party, but Iowa has shifted alittle bit in the last
generation or so is that fair tosay?
Sarah Trone Garriott (11:38):
Yeah, so Iowa is a state that voted for
Obama, and then turned aroundand voted for Trump. And I think
it has, you know, it'sdefinitely there's been some
shifting party registrations,the rural areas are kind of
emptying out. And we're seeingmore folks living in our metro
areas. We just had redistrictingin '22. So that means that
(12:01):
things are a little bit morefair now. But for years, they
were not so fair, the ruralcommunities really had an
outsized impact, outsized impacton state elections. And so I
think it has a little bit moreto do with, Iowans just don't
like politicians necessarily.
They want people who feelauthentic to them, they want
(12:23):
folks that they can connect withthat there's a story that
somehow they, they can really,you know, just feel inspired by.
And, you know, for both of thosecandidates, there was something
there that folks resonated with.
And, you know, you know whoTrump is, I mean, he is
(12:45):
authentically who he is. And Ithink a lot of people really
appreciated that. But, you know,folks want somebody that they
have that emotional connectionto. And so I think it's possible
to have other candidatesrepresenting different values
who resonate with folks. And Ifeel like that's what I've tried
(13:06):
to do in my candidacy, and in mywork is connect with people
first, and help them, you know,feel like, I'm accessible, I'm
present to them. I'm a realperson. And I think that's what
they appreciate.
Chip Gruen (13:22):
So let's think a little bit more about your your
place in all of this in thatlarger context of not only Iowa
politics, but the landscape ofthe country generally. You won
your Senate seat, your stateSenate seat in 2020. More than
that, you were the onlycandidate statewide in Iowa to
turn a previously red stateblue. So given that you were
(13:46):
swimming against the streamhere, I mean, Iowa went for
Trump in 2020. So you were thiswas split ticket voting. Can you
tell us about what your messagewas to your constituents that,
you know, made them split thatticket that allowed you to sort
of swim upstream and turn aRepublican district into one
(14:06):
that was happy to vote for aDemocrat?
Sarah Trone Garriott (14:09):
So I've actually flipped two districts
in the last four years. So in2020, I ran and was one of the
few I think, maybe the only toflip a district in that year.
And then the redistrictingprocess meant that I had to move
a little further west and runagainst the state senate
president that year. And I wonthat election as well. And for
(14:32):
both of those elections, I mean,the timing was really right. The
political balance was shiftingin my favor, though, in both
races, it wasn't a slam dunk,and it was going to be pretty
hard. And in '22 the the numbersit's a it's a lean Republican
district. It's plus fiveregistrations in on the
(14:53):
Republican side. So I had to getfolks from the Republican Party
the independents to vote for meas well. But I think it goes
back to that idea that people inIowa really don't want
politicians, they want realpeople making these decisions
for them. And I was known in thecommunity as a minister, as a
(15:14):
nonprofit leader first. I had alot of connections in that
region. And I had made a lot ofreally positive connections with
folks because I was out doorknocking, especially in '22. '20
I couldn't because of thepandemic, but in '22, I was on
thousands, of doorsteps showingup for people talking to them.
(15:37):
And they could see that I wasworking my tail off. And that
was the biggest part of it was,I was showing up and talking to
folks and doing the work. And itreally paid off. And I was
paying attention toconstituencies that often get
overlooked. So I work with allof these diverse religious
communities in my day job. Andso I have some long standing
(15:59):
relationships with newer Iowans,diverse religious communities,
folks who often get ignored inthe electoral process. And these
are people who often will notvote in midterms or don't vote
down ballot in the presidentialyears. But because I have strong
connections, because I valuetheir presence in the community,
(16:21):
they matter to me, they votedfor me, and they showed up for
me. And I know that made adifference in my election.
Chip Gruen (16:28):
So can you tell us a little bit more about about your
district? I mean, I think it'ssafe to say that a lot of people
don't know very much about Iowa,we imagine, maybe some of the
statewide demographics are notreally reflective of the
district that you're describing.
So could you get us into alittle bit more than nitty
gritty of who these people areand what matters to them?
Sarah Trone Garriott (16:51):
So a lot of people think Iowa is so
white, but we do actually havequite a bit of diversity in our
state, and in this metro area,in particular. And so I am in
the growing edge of the suburbsof our Des Moines metro area, a
lot of people who areprofessionals, we've got quite a
(17:11):
bit of I guess I'd say whitecollar diversity. So we've got
people who are educated, who areworking in white collar jobs,
who've chosen to make their homehere for the schools for the
community, the quality of life,those those, those financial and
job opportunities. And so wehave folks who've moved to this
(17:32):
metro area, from all over thestate, from all over the
country, from all over theworld. And we also have a pretty
significant population of folkswho have been refugees. In Iowa,
we've got a long history ofthat. And so many of those folks
have stayed generations havebuilt their lives here, or I see
other people relocating fromother parts of the country and
(17:53):
gathering here in Iowa, becausethere's community for them. And
so, you know, there's a lot ofdiversity in Iowa, and in my
district in particular. And so Iwould see that when I was out
door knocking, I met the priestof the Coptic Orthodox Church
while I was out door knocking,he lives in my district. He's
(18:14):
from Egypt, originally. And weactually have a significant
population of folks from Egypt,living here in the metro area,
quite a few in my community.
Chip Gruen (18:23):
So you've mentioned already, that you felt a little
bit like your political life,the foundation for that was in
some of that pastoral work andsome of that community work. Can
you talk about some of thatinterfaith work you've done? And
how that affected the way youpursue your political goals? You
(18:45):
know, what are some of thelessons that you learned about
people in the communities thatyou represent? That carried
forward from, from thatdifferent vocation from that
pastoral vocation to yourpolitical office?
Sarah Trone Garriott (18:57):
Yeah, so my interfaith work is all about
showing up. I mean,relationships are the thing. You
can learn about a community froma book or from a documentary,
you can tour a building, butuntil you actually meet the
people, you don't reallyunderstand and you don't get to
grow in your understanding. Andso for years, I have been
(19:19):
showing up and buildingconnections with folks and in my
interfaith work, I createopportunities for other people
to get to know their neighbors.
And so that is something thatI'm known for is if you invite
me to something, I do my best toget there to be there. I try to
show up everywhere I can, youknow, even places that might be
a little uncomfortable for me,it's no big deal for me to be in
(19:40):
a gathering, where I'm the onlywhite person and nobody's
speaking English for two hours,it's fine, but that's just
something I'm used to. And so Ipractice that regularly getting
out of my bubble, spending timewith folks in their spaces,
because you really gotta meetpeople where they're at. And
then another piece from myinterfaith work is, you know, we
(20:02):
all have similarities, but wealso have differences. And those
differences can be reallysignificant. But we've always
got those opportunities toconnect around those
similarities. So I have a lot ofinteresting relationships with
groups that on some issues, yes,we don't agree. But there is
(20:23):
respect. There are connections,there are those times we work
together. So I try very hard notto count anyone out or not to
take anyone for granted.
Chip Gruen (20:35):
Yeah, so it's, I'm glad to hear you mentioned the,
what you say about similaritiesand differences. I've kind of in
my work thought for a long timethat the way that we talk about
difference is not alwayshealthy, right, by minimizing
it, you know, the discourses orrhetorics or about, you know,
people being fundamentally thesame, which on one level is
(20:57):
absolutely true. But if youdon't, you know, make room in
your, in your thinking about thevarieties of human experience
for difference, then you'rereally surprised when people
don't react the same way thatyou would so really heartened to
hear you talk about, you know,not not trying to sweep those
differences under the rug, butrecognizing them.
Sarah Trone Garriott (21:17):
Well, and it's important to be able to
manage your discomfort, becausewe're gonna encounter
challenging situations,difficult conversations, if
we're working with folks who aredifferent than us, really, with
anybody. But it's helpful tohave that practice so that you
don't shy away from thoserelationships, just because that
(21:39):
potential is always there.
Chip Gruen (21:41):
So to go back to the events that got you into
politics, and that led up toyour your serving in the Iowa
State Senate. I'm imagining whatit must have been like after you
won your race. What was thislike? You know, considering that
this was not your plan, butsomething that you felt
(22:01):
compelled to do? Because you sawthat it needed to be done? What
was that transition, like as youmoved into this role in public
service?
Sarah Trone Garriott (22:11):
So the thing about election nights is
they are awful for candidates. Imean, you just truly feel sick
all day. And in 2020, that firstelection was really terrible,
because the results just camerolling in that everyone else
had lost decisively. And wecouldn't find my results. And a
friend from the Sikh communityactually texted me and said, you
(22:33):
won by 167 votes, I was like,what, and I had been pulling
ahead by six points, and so thatI had only won by just barely
it, it was so shocking. And thenext day, I found out that my
opponent was going to put methrough a recount. So it, it
dragged on for a couple moreweeks, I never really
celebrated. And I think therewere so many folks disappointed
(22:56):
by the results, they kind offorgot about my win, at least in
the party. So you know, I cameinto a very different situation
than I had imagined in 2020, wethought we would have a blue
wave, we thought we would have adifferent prep, you know, a
different situation to to workwith. And it was worse than it
(23:17):
had been before. So, you know, Ireally had to adjust my
expectations for what waspossible. And really had to
reorient myself about what weremy goals, because there's always
something you can do. And thereare always opportunities, but
they just weren't going to betaking back the majority in one
(23:39):
of the chambers or being able topass the legislation we wanted.
Chip Gruen (23:42):
Yeah. So then beyond that, so you are adjusting
expectations. You've just, youknow, unseeded, what for the
second election in a row,somebody who had, you know, been
long standing in the in thechamber. How are you received by
the other legislators from youryour party or from the other
(24:05):
party? What was the experiencelike of actually, you know,
walking in, you know, in eitherelection for the first time.
Sarah Trone Garriott (24:12):
So the very first time, I hadn't been
in rooms of people for a verylong time because of COVID. And
so I was kind of shocked by thatbeing in the chamber with
everyone for the swearing in,but it was the whitest, oldest,
male-est room I had been in in avery long time. And I said, Wow,
this doesn't look like Iowa. Andso one of those opportunities
(24:36):
that I found right away was howcan I bring in the people that I
know like, get them to theCapitol, get them in the
process, get their voices herein the chamber? What were those
opportunities? And you know, allthe legislators are coming from
such different backgrounds, andit's been a challenge to get to
know the Republican legislatorsbecause even at the state level,
(24:58):
we have some division. And sofolks have been kind of confused
about me being a minister beinga woman, you know, seeing
Christianity in a very differentway than they do. Some of my
Democratic legislators, I think,maybe are also a little weirded
out by me because I'm areligious person, but I'm also a
(25:19):
Democrat. And, you know, soyeah, in both places, I'm kind
of kind of an oddity.
Chip Gruen (25:28):
Yeah, that's, that's, yeah, absolutely. I
just, you know, finished up,we're in our last week of
classes here at Muhlenberg andjust finished up my Christian
traditions class, and I alwaysand always in the plural, right,
there is not one Christianity.
And that surprises students,right, that you can have people
across the religious landscape,or the Christian landscape, for
(25:50):
that matter, who think verydifferently about, you know,
political issues, social issues,etc. I mean, so. So you ran into
that full steam ahead in what Iwould presume to be a pretty
conservative, pretty whatevangelical kind of Christianity
in that chamber?
Sarah Trone Garriott (26:09):
Yeah. So the Republicans that I know, for
the most part, are verycomfortable talking about their
faith, being public, in theirfaith, sharing prayers in the
legislature, you know, becausethat happens every day, and
people can volunteer to sign up,but a lot of my Democratic
colleagues do not. But I, youknow, in my interfaith work, you
(26:32):
know, I understand that I canappreciate and respect and be
interested in my neighbor'sfaith. And it's not something
that is a threat to my faith andit actually can be an
inspiration it can make make mestronger, in my own particular
beliefs. And, you know, so it,you know, for me, it's like,
(26:53):
okay, how can we really giveopportunities for the religious
diversity of our state, and thenon religious perspectives as
well, you know, in these publicrealms, because we're only often
hearing one kind of way of beingreligious in politics. And
there's so much more out therethat doesn't get a voice.
Chip Gruen (27:15):
So when we first met one another at the American
Academy of Religion AnnualMeetings, we you told me
actually a little bit about thattradition of the Iowa State
Senate opening with prayer, andthat that was a tradition that
you had a lot of feelings about,can you can you tell us about
(27:36):
how you interacted with that?
Sarah Trone Garriott (27:38):
So, you know, for a lot of state
legislatures, there will be aprayer. This is something that
hasn't happened since thebeginning of our state, I think
it really only came about in the1980s. So it's always kind of
interesting to look at thathistory and say, why did why did
that start happening? I don'tknow the answer to that. But
it's this is the way it is,every legislative day in the
(28:01):
house, and the Senate startswith a prayer, and previously
used to be able to invitesomeone, a member of the
community or religious leader toactually come and say that
prayer. So that's what happenedwhen I was invited by my
senator, I was standing on thefloor of the Senate chamber,
sharing that prayer in front ofeveryone. Now, we can't do that
(28:22):
we're not allowed since COVID.
So the senators themselves arethe only ones allowed to pray.
And I want to bring in thoseother voices. That that
diversity that is not really whoI am. But I want to give my
neighbors a chance to be heardin that moment. So I invite
religious leaders or members ofreligious communities to write a
(28:43):
prayer for me, I invite them tobe there in the gallery when I
read it, I note who it's from, Ishare a little something about
that community, and share thatprayer. And I've worked really
hard, you know, I prioritize theprayers from diverse religious
communities that are not myChristian background. So it's
pretty rare that I share aChristian prayer. And when I do,
(29:06):
it's often one of thoseChristian communities that you
don't think of like the CopticOrthodox Church.
Chip Gruen (29:14):
And when you did this, when you took this
initiative to include thosevoices, in the in these prayers
include the voices of some ofyour constituents who are
otherwise not represented, howwas that received? What was the
the reaction to that, thatinclusion?
Sarah Trone Garriott (29:35):
So one of the first prayers that I shared
was actually a poem written by aMuslim constituent young woman I
had worked with through myinterfaith work, and it had all
of these attributes for God inArabic that I read those words
of she helped me withpronunciation, and it was kind
of a scandal. I got added to thejihad watch website. Um, There
(30:00):
were some conservative blogsthat wrote stories about me. And
then we had some people cc'ingall legislators saying, How dare
this happen in the Iowa Senate.
And I had one legislator whoreplied-all because folks are
really bad about doing that,saying that he basically agreed
with the person making thecomplaint. And I could tell that
it really bothered him that hedid not understand the
(30:23):
connections between the Jewish,Christian and Muslim communities
that they are Abrahamic faithsthat they have some common
origins, and overlap, even inpeople and ideas. And so I had
the opportunity to talk with himabout that, I don't think that
I've changed his mind. But it'sdefinitely given me the
(30:46):
opportunity to have someconversations with folks. But
there's something about bringingthat diversity into that
traditionally, Christian prayertime, that I think is really
important, because when peoplereact strongly to it, it reminds
me how much it matters, to makeit clear that, hey, if we're
going to have a prayer time, itshould be for all people. These
(31:09):
people are part of ourcommunity, they live in Iowa,
their religious freedom mattersas well. And so it makes me even
more motivated to continue to doit. But I don't just experience
pushback on that, from theconservative side of things. I
have a lot of progressive folkssaying How dare you pray, you
should be protesting the factthat there's prayer, you should
(31:31):
be doing this or that. But Ifeel like from for what is true
to me, and how I want to spendmy political capital, I think
this is a better approach forme. And I think it's, it's, it's
a way to honor my neighbors. AndI hope that by being present in
that chamber, it inspires themto think about state government.
(31:54):
It's, it's just a lot of fun toinvite my neighbors down to the
capitol and involve them in thisway. And they really enjoy that
opportunity. You know, it'ssomething that I can give them,
when I can't pass thelegislation that I want, I can
include them, I can honor them,I can share about them to my
colleagues in the legislature.
Chip Gruen (32:19):
So you know, the way that you've described your
district, I mean, you'vementioned Sikh community
members, for example, and youknow, that there are certainly,
you know, communities that arefurther afield from Christianity
than Islam. What was it aboutthat particular prayer that was
(32:40):
so offensive? I mean, was ittheology? Was it the use of
Arabic language? Was it just therepresentation, this different
worldview? I mean, one couldimagine I mean, as you say,
there is this common denominatorof the shared Hebrew bible old
testament tradition, right? Theidea that these are Abrahamic
(33:02):
faiths that, that worship thesame God, I can almost
understand it more. If it was,you know, even, you know, more
farther afield like Hindu orSikh or Buddhist? What was it
about this, you know, inclusionof the Muslim community, do you
think that was so offensive thatdrove people even to put you on
(33:25):
this watch list?
Sarah Trone Garriott (33:27):
So there are folks in the community that
are just very biased towardscertain religious groups. And so
there's just a lot of animositytowards the Muslim community,
which is very unfair. I thinkthere's a lot of folks who just
don't understand. They don'trealize that there is this
relationship, this connectionbetween Judaism, Christianity,
(33:53):
and Islam. That, a lot of ourneighbors are just not educated
about it. So I heard peopleexpressing things about the
Muslim community that were justnot true at all. And they did
not understand the roots ofthose Abrahamic faiths. And so
it was an opportunity for me totry to share with them about
(34:15):
that. But there's this sensethat the only real religion is
Christianity, and the only realChristianity is a certain
variety of Christianity. And soevery time I share a prayer from
a different community, it reallychallenges folks who are feeling
that way. And I know it, itmakes makes some folks pretty
(34:38):
uncomfortable.
Chip Gruen (34:40):
You know, I think, given how you described your,
your constituency, I would besurprised if there wasn't, say a
Hindu temple society. I mean,that's even more far afield than
than Islam. Do you think that itis about that relative distance
from Christianity or do youthink there's something in
particular about Islam that waskind of triggering for for this
for reaction?
Sarah Trone Garriott (35:01):
You know, I just feel that the way the
media has portrayed the Muslimcommunity, you know, those kind
of deep seated biases that cameout of September 11. There's,
there's just, you know, there'smore negative resonances that
folks have. And often in theMuslim community, you know,
(35:24):
folks might dress differently.
The women might wear the hijab.
And so that is unsettling tofolks, because it's just so
different. But I know, we'vealso seen some pretty strong
anti Asian bias in the last fewyears as well. And so, you know,
when I'm inviting folks from theAsian community to participate,
(35:46):
I know that that that's there,too. And for the Sikh community,
you know, they wear the turban,I've a lot of people don't
understand who they are. Andthey experienced a lot of bias,
violence even after September11, as well.
Chip Gruen (36:04):
Yeah, which is just the poster child for religious
ignorance, right, that peopleresponded to the Sikh community
the way that they did afterSeptember 11. I mean, obviously,
this doesn't have anything to dowith Islam, not that it's okay
to respond to Muslims negativelyafter September 11 either, but,
you know, simply because someonewears a different headdress,
(36:27):
right, wears the turban, youknow, people imagine them as as
somehow being connected to thisthing that was scary, and other,
and you know, like I say, aposter child for, for why we
need more religious literacy inthis country, I think.
Sarah Trone Garriott (36:43):
Many of our neighbors don't even think
about the significant Indianpopulation we have in the metro
area, they don't, they don'trealize that we do have a large
temple outside the metro areathat we've got two Sikh temples
here. Because they're, they'rethere, but you have to kind of
go out of your way to drive pastthem. And so they're there, but
(37:04):
they just might not realize it.
Chip Gruen (37:07):
Yeah, it's interesting. And in my work here
in the Lehigh Valley, you know,I, I think I've run into into
some of the same things, rightto make people like there's
certain kinds of religiousdiversity that people are aware
of, and certain kinds that youhave to have to show right have
to demonstrate, you know, and Ithink it is one of these ways
(37:29):
that we are trained that wethink in percentages, you know,
if x percent, of people identifyas Y, X and Y percent, identify
as Z, right, maybe you get downto that .5%, and you just don't
care anymore, you know, or thatpoint, 1.2%, and you just don't
care anymore, because it's not asuper significant number of
(37:49):
people in your community? But atleast from our perspective, here
in the Institute for Religiousand Cultural Understanding, you
know, it's not about the numbersof people but the variety of
beliefs and practices andworldviews that we want to
expose people to it sounds likeyou have a pretty similar
attitude.
Sarah Trone Garriott (38:08):
Well, and, you know, folks are just not
used to seeing these religiouscommunities in these spaces,
because we have a majority whiteChristian legislature. And, you
know, the folks who had beenoffering prayers, for the most
(38:28):
part were those white Christianlegislators. And so it, it's,
it's been a change, because I'mpretty active in offering
prayers, I try to do it severaltimes a year, because I've got a
lot of communities that I'd loveto give the opportunity to. And
as a Christian leader, I thinkit's really important for me to
(38:48):
talk about these communities andshow them in a positive light.
Because in my interfaith work,I'm inspired by my neighbors,
and how they live their faith. Ifeel that getting to know my
neighbors and respecting themand appreciating them actually
makes my faith stronger, that Idon't have to see the faith of
(39:09):
others as a threat. And it'snot, you know, it's challenging
me to think about my faith, butit doesn't, you know, it doesn't
challenge me in a way that hurtsmy faith.
Chip Gruen (39:23):
So you mentioned that you like to include, you
know, these neighbors from otherreligious traditions in this,
this ritual in this prayer, inlieu of, you know, because you
feel a little bit, you know,remiss that you can't pass the
legislation you would want topass. Do you have any examples
(39:46):
of the kinds of legislation thatyou feel like would be
beneficial to Iowa into thesecommunities that you have been
unsuccessful in passing, giventhe climate in the in the
legislature?
Sarah Trone Garriott (39:57):
So every state legislature works
differently, and in Iowa, ifyou're in the minority party,
and you file a bill, it neverhas to get a hearing, it can
just go in a drawer. And so it'sreally the prerogative of the
majority party, what bills get apublic hearing, everything does
not have to get its opportunityto be heard. And so for me, I am
(40:22):
really concerned about healthand human services issues, we
have not expanded Medicaidpostpartum care for 12 months,
which a lot of states have donethat. And, and so that's an
opportunity to really care for alot of lower income folks,
there's, gosh, almost 40% ofIowa births happen on Medicaid.
And so to make sure that, youknow, those parents have care
(40:45):
that they're, they're gettingaccess to care, that makes that
child healthier, as well. And sothat's, that's a big one for me.
I really want to make sure thatour public school system is as
strong as it possibly could be.
But unfortunately, in the lastfew years, we've seen a lot of
legislation that really attackspublic schools, makes it harder
for them to have diversematerials, really just puts our
(41:08):
educators under a microscope ifthey're going to be talking
about diversity, which is thatthat's not good for our whole
community. But that also makes,it makes it harder on our
diverse communities as well. Andthe funding for our public
schools has not kept up withinflation for the last 10 years.
(41:28):
So that means each year they'regetting an effective cut. And,
you know, most of my neighbors,they they moved to this
community because of good publicschools, and they are very good.
But every year, the schools aredoing more with less. And it's
really having an impact acrossthe entire state. And so I want
to make sure that everyone, nomatter what their background is,
(41:51):
no matter where they came from,they have good opportunities in
Iowa to be healthy to geteducated to have a future here.
And I also really want to makesure that our state government
is sending a message to peoplethat they're welcome here. And
unfortunately, we've seen a lotof legislative action that tells
people from diverse communitiesthat no we really don't want you
(42:14):
here, and I've had friendsmoving away. As a result of
that. And the GLBTQ is communityhas really been targeted, in the
last two years. And there's alot of folks from diverse
religious backgrounds, differentracial or cultural or language
backgrounds that are alsofeeling feeling that discomfort
(42:36):
too.
Chip Gruen (42:39):
So you talked about some of the initiatives that
you're interested in, I mean,health care and education, I
mean, those benefit Christians,Muslims, Hindus equally right?
You know, why do you think yourun into the problems that you
do when you're wanting moresupport for programs that just
(43:00):
benefit humans?
Sarah Trone Garriott (43:02):
Well, there there are some differing
ideas about how we should spendour resources, what really
benefits the community. But evenwhen we're talking about feeding
people, it's it's kind ofamazing to me that I have
colleagues who are very publicabout their Christian faith.
(43:24):
They might host Bible studies inthe capitol they like to pray in
public. And yet, feeding peopleis something that we really
disagree on. When you look atthe Christian scriptures, you
know, there are two miraclesthat show up in all four
(43:45):
Gospels. The first one is theresurrection. And the second is
the feeding of the multitudes. Imean, what could be more
important in our faith andfeeding people in need? And I
have Christian colleagues whosay, Nope, we are not going to
(44:05):
do that. They need to go out andget jobs there. They don't
deserve to be fed, unlessthey're, they're doing this that
or the other thing, we can'ttrust people who say they need
food, which is not what Jesuscommands the disciples, in the
synoptics, at least, you know,they say, send them away Jesus.
(44:27):
And Jesus says, No, you givethem something to eat.
Chip Gruen (44:30):
So this podcast, ReligionWise, and our work here
at the Institute generally isinterested in the place of
religion and public life, rightthe way that religion is
imagined, in the publicconversation. Given that you now
have a foot firmly both inreligious leadership and
political leadership. What isyour perspective? And maybe
(44:53):
how's that changed on thisconfluence of religion and
politics? How do you think aboutthat intersection differently
than you might have a few yearsago?
Sarah Trone Garriott (45:02):
So I'm a Lutheran. And we are kind of
awkward, uncomfortable aboutthinking about politics, and
religion that comes from ourhistory. And I think it's good
to be wary, to be thoughtfulabout your boundaries, because
there are opportunities forpolitical power to corrupt
(45:26):
religious practice and faith.
And there are real problemswith, you know, using the power
and resources of the state topromote one religion over
another. And so I firmly believethat both politics and religion
are simply about how we livetogether as a community. And so,
(45:50):
you know, the matters of faithdo speak to the decisions we
make in our governments. And weshould be thinking about how do
we faithfully engage in thatcivic life. And so I've had a
lot of faith communities, a lotof churches, especially reaching
out to me and saying, you know,how do we do this in an
(46:13):
appropriate way, because we'rereally uncomfortable with being
people of faith in these publicrealms, we're really
uncomfortable with talking aboutpolitical engagements in our
church community. There'snothing wrong with being
political, it's being partisanthat's the problem. And the
thing about faithfulness is itwill always cut in a way that's
kind of challenging anduncomfortable for you. And so
(46:36):
you, you know, you, you're goingto have to look at yourself and
your beliefs and your politicaldecisions in a in a in a
challenging and hard way. Ifyou're truly being faithful,
it's not going to all feel easyand great.
Chip Gruen (46:57):
So I think on that note, we've talked a little bit
about some of the struggles,right, some of the loggerheads
that you've come to. And, youknow, we all know that that is
not simply a function of theIowa State Legislature that this
is everywhere. And I think a lotof people are really discouraged
(47:18):
about the state of our countryright now. And maybe even worse,
they're discouraged andpessimistic, that there is any
hope that there's a way out ofour polarization and division
and room to heal and move on.
What do you think about thefuture? Are you hopeful that
there is a path forward fromthis place that we find
(47:39):
ourselves in now?
Sarah Trone Garriott (47:42):
Ah, yes, I was a hospital chaplain at
Children's Memorial Hospital inChicago for two years. And I
know that even in the worstsituations, where the is the the
worst possible outcome that willhappen, there's always the
opportunity to make thingsbetter. So we always have the
(48:02):
opportunity to, to do something,make things better, in any
situation, so that that gives mesome hope from those
experiences. And thoseopportunities, they can really
matter, they can really make adifference for people, even if
it's not the big thing, or thebetter outcome that you wanted.
(48:24):
Another thing from my interfaithwork is that I know we need to
practice being uncomfortable. Alot of times, when folks talk
about wanting to overcomedivision, and have, you know,
across the aisle conversationsand relationships, they want it
to be free from discomfort. Andthat's not really possible,
(48:47):
because then we can't talk aboutthe things that are really
important and hard. So I thinkas a culture, as a society, we
have some work to do inpracticing, practicing how to
have challenging conversationsand be in relationship with
folks who are different. Andbeing out of our comfort zone.
(49:09):
Because so much about our life,we can pick and choose and
design the way that we prefer.
And, and, and we need to havemore engagement with folks who
are different. There aren't alot of public spaces that are
throwing us together in thatway. Religious communities can
be one of those ways, but oftenwe're self selecting to the
community that feels morealigned with our values, which
(49:31):
makes sense, but then we mightnot be meeting people who are
different and remembering thatwe're all human beings together.
Chip Gruen (49:42):
Yeah, it seems you know, you think about I liked
what you said about how thereare not a lot of public
institutions that that expose usto that difference. I mean, you
know, one of the things youdrive to the suburbs and you
notice, right that a lot ofpeople have a swimming pool or a
playground in their backyard.
or, you know, order books fromAmazon or whatever? And to the
detriment maybe of the publicpool, of the public playground
(50:05):
or the public library. It seemslike maybe maybe this is
something to continue to thinkabout, as we think about what
our public spaces look like andhow much we're supporting them.
Because as you say, I mean,religious institutions that
might have the best intentions.
I mean, I think it was MartinLuther King who said, No,
(50:26):
nowhere is United States moresegregated, or at no time is the
United States more segregatedthan on a Sunday morning.
Sarah Trone Garriott (50:33):
And so a lot of work in my day job in the
nonprofit world is aboutcreating opportunities for
people to get to know theirneighbors and go places outside
their comfort zone. In mylegislative work, I try to bring
some of that to my colleagues,but I'm always pushing myself to
get out into the communities.
I'm showing up anything that Iget invited to all these
(50:56):
different communities, and thenshowing up on people's doorsteps
trying to talk to them face toface where I can find them. So I
feel like as a legislator, Ireally need to work hard to do
that. So I can connect with allthese different aspects of my
constituency in my community.
Chip Gruen (51:17):
Yeah, I'm with you about you know, going where
you're invited and being inthose public or quasi public
spaces, you know, to beuncomfortable. You will not
convince me to go door to doorthough. I'm afraid I draw the
line there. So you're stronger,you're stronger there than I am,
I'm afraid.
Sarah Trone Garriott (51:33):
So door to door. I actually really enjoy
it. And when I'm feelingdiscouraged, the thing that
helps me the most is getting outinto my community. Because what
you see on social media and inthe news is not really what's
going on on the ground level.
And there's something reallywonderful about just talking to
your neighbors. Most people arehappy to meet me every once in a
(51:57):
while I have some badexperiences. But for the most
part it's it's really affirmingand encouraging to get out
there.
Chip Gruen (52:09):
So what and maybe you won't be able to answer this
but or maybe you'll answer itand it won't come true, but what
do you think is next for SarahTrone Garriott? Professionally
and or politically? Where doesthe road lead to from here?
Sarah Trone Garriott (52:26):
I feel like I'm constantly in a midlife
crisis. Always asking myselfthat question. I don't know what
the answer is. I never plannedto become a minister. I never
planned to leave parish and workin the nonprofit world. I never
planned to run for office, Icertainly never planned to live
in Iowa. But life is this seriesof opportunities callings for me
(52:53):
that I see a way that I can beof service. And I get some
nudges in that direction. So mynext thing is I've got to run
again in 2024. Get through thatelection, and I will get my
first full four year term. Andthen maybe I'll have a little
bit of a breather to think aboutwhat's next.
Chip Gruen (53:15):
All right, that sounds like as good a plan as
any I think my dad used to sayhumans make plans and God laughs
And so maybe maybe just one stepat a time is the best way
forward.
Sarah Trone Garriott (53:26):
Yeah.
Chip Gruen (53:27):
Well, thank you so much for coming on ReligionWise,
this has been great. I thinkyou're the first policymaker who
has made an appearance and we'retalking about the influence of
religion and public life. Idon't know of a better place to
do it. So we really appreciateyour time.
Sarah Trone Garriott (53:41):
Yeah, thank you.
Chip Gruen (53:45):
This has been ReligionWise a podcast produced
by the Institute for Religiousand Cultural Understanding of
Muhlenberg College. ReligionWiseis produced and directed by
Christine Flicker. For moreinformation about additional
programming, or to make aninquiry about a speaking
engagement, please visit ourwebsite at
religionandculture.com. Thereyou'll find our contact
(54:05):
information, links to otherprogramming and have the
opportunity to support the workof the Institute. Please
subscribe to ReligionWisewherever you get your podcasts.
We look forward to seeing younext time.
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