July 12, 2024 • 24 mins
Ever wondered how to harness the collective genius of a small group to catapult your business to new heights? Join our conversation with Liz Scully, a mastermind expert who swapped the glitz and glamour of Hollywood for the impactful world of business strategy. Liz unveils the magic behind mastermind groups, where small, intimate gatherings create a powerhouse of accountability, support, and innovative ideas. Listen to her inspiring journey and discover how these groups provide the critical feedback and strategic advice entrepreneurs need to thrive and achieve long-term success.
Choosing the right mastermind group can be a game-changer, and Liz shares the practical steps to find your perfect fit, whether you're just starting out or a seasoned pro. We discuss the pros and cons of in-person versus online formats, the importance of a skilled facilitator, and the value of investing in paid masterminds. Plus, Liz debunks common misconceptions and highlights the unparalleled sense of community and collaboration these groups foster. Don't miss out on this episode packed with actionable insights and expert advice that could transform your business and help you live your dream.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Eden (00:00):
Welcome to today's episode.
Today we are talking about allthings masterminds and we have a
great guest to help us withthis topic.
Today, our guest is Liz Scully.
Liz is an expert in masterminds.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me.
It's lovely to be here.
So why don't we start off?
(00:22):
Before we jump into Masterminds, tell us a little bit about
your background, who you are andwhat you do?
Liz Scully (00:29):
Sure.
So I spent 20 years working onbig Hollywood films in
post-production very collegiate,very much working as a group
together to produce amazingthings, and it was wonderful.
But it was very stressful and weworked with very driven people
and just awful things happen allthe time terrible calamities
(00:51):
but we got through it as a group.
And when I left the filmindustry because I'd heard of
this thing called a weekend andI quite liked that idea and it's
true they exist so once Istarted having those and I
started my own business, Imissed that collegiate feeling
incredibly, and what we achievein film is all based around what
(01:12):
the group can do, andmasterminds do exactly that and
that is why I'm so wedded tothem.
So I work as a businessstrategist now and I work with
all of my clients in mastermindgroups and it brings all of that
good stuff from the filmindustry where because, if you
think about it, a film directorwho is very directed and very
(01:33):
clear and has a massive visionbut also has a huge number of
things going on, is very like anentrepreneur that's pushed and
time short and wants to doamazing things, has a million
things to juggle.
They're really very similar.
So that's pushed and time shortand wants to do amazing things,
has a million things to juggle.
They're really very similar, sothat's what I did.
Eric Eden (01:50):
And for everyone's benefit.
Can you share a little bitabout what is the definition of
a mastermind and how do theywork?
Liz Scully (02:00):
Sure.
So sadly there isn't anofficial mastermind definition,
although one day it will happen,I swear.
So masterminds are these kindof undefined things for many
people, but for me they meanspecifically that there are a
small group of people that meetand we talk about plans, we
discuss things, we havespotlights where you can ask a
(02:23):
question and we make a plan thistime that you will have
achieved by next time.
So it's got built-inaccountability, it's got a place
where you can ask questions andyou have longevity in it.
So, whether or not you'remeeting for an intense in-person
weekend and a month out you'regoing to discuss if you hit your
(02:44):
goals, or most of themasterminds I run are online and
we meet on every other week fora year and during that time you
get this real support, you getaccountability, you get a place
to ask questions.
Most importantly, you get aplace to ideate, because you
know yourself when you'rerunning a business.
There really aren't many placesthat you can think without
(03:05):
having to have a facade about oh, everything's going, or your
family, who adore you, I'm sure,but aren't necessarily the best
arbitrators of information.
It's a really lovely littlespace, but with goals and with
support.
As you can tell, I love itgoals and with support.
Eric Eden (03:27):
As you can tell, I love them.
That's great.
And so these are smaller groups.
Let's call it around seven to10 people, is that right?
Liz Scully (03:31):
You can run them in person.
I would say people tend to runbetween 10 and 15 people,
sometimes up to 20.
The groups I run myself arebetween four and six, because
they're very intimate, they'revery long running and smaller.
Those intimate groups worktogether.
Sadly, this does bring upsomething that there are a lot
of things called mastermindsthat are simply a networking
(03:52):
event with the word mastermindslapped on the front, and I
think that's the problem.
There isn't a definite brandthat is a mastermind.
So if you've been to somethingwhich was effectively a mixer
over a weekend, yeah, I wouldsay not a mastermind.
Eric Eden (04:09):
So we're ready to be inspired.
Liz Scully (04:11):
Tell us a story or two about the benefits of
masterminds, eitherparticipating them or running
them, that you've seenparticipating them or running
them that you've seen, apartfrom the fact I've seen it in my
own business, I am absolutelycertain the reason my own
business has grown quickly isbecause I spend all my time in
(04:33):
masterminds hearing people giveamazing advice to each other.
So, partially because you are ina position where you are
thinking about someone else'sbusiness as well as your own, we
can be a lot more open about it.
The other way, you can look atsomeone else's love life and
think, oh, those people, theyshould not be together.
But on the inside of therelationship you can't see that
(04:54):
at all.
But it's the same with your ownmarketing, with your own
strategy, with your funnel buildall of those things.
You can't see inside the jarwhat the label says.
So that feeling it's reallyhelpful to have someone else
point it out and because theyhave longevity, there is that
feeling of cyclical stuff.
Coaching doesn't tend to lastthat long, really realistically,
(05:17):
and many people are in mymasterminds for years at a time.
I think my longest client hasbeen with me for over a decade
because it works and thatfeeling of a group holding a
vision for you is incrediblypowerful.
Eric Eden (05:33):
And so what are some of the benefits?
If someone wants to join amastermind Is part of the
benefit tell me if I have thisright is part of the benefit.
Because, as an entrepreneur ora founder, the benefit tell me
if I have this right as part ofthe benefit because, as an
entrepreneur or a founder, youmight tell yourself a story in
your head of I think this, I'mbuilding this product, this
product will do this for thesepeople, and if you don't have
(05:56):
other people to bounce it off of, you could just tell yourself a
story and then really believeit and then be off track.
Whereas if you have thispersonal advisor group or a
mastermind and you can run it by, whether it's five to 15 people
, and say what do you guys think?
This is what I'm doing?
(06:17):
People can give you feedbackand advice and say that's good,
but have you thought about thisor what about this, or have you
thought about it this way?
Is that one of the big benefitsof it?
Liz Scully (06:29):
Absolutely.
And also there is presumablysomebody running the mastermind,
so you will no doubt get someform of coaching from them as
well.
So, yes, there's a sort ofvalidation, but there's also the
opposite side of that, which is, if you're feeling a bit down,
if you've had a tough day withclients, if you go to your
mastermind, they're likely topoint out all of the good things
, all of the things that you'repositive at, so they can scoop
(06:50):
you up on a bad day, they canredirect you in a positive way.
And what I find with my clientsis often that it's subtle.
Over time we start and we putin place all of those lovely
foundations.
One of my clients said to mefairly recently I don't know, I
(07:11):
know it's the mastermind, Idon't know exactly what you did,
but it's as though the internethas backed the money truck up
to my business and it won't stopnow.
And that's what a mastermindwill do.
It will allow you to coursecorrect till you get really
focused and you get the resultsyou want.
Eric Eden (07:26):
So I'm interested in that Is that because sometimes
in the mastermind you can getdirect feedback that might be a
little bit more direct or harshthan just a friend would give
you advice.
And it might be from people whohave a lot of experience in the
areas and they're coaching youbased on their experience in the
(07:49):
mastermind.
And it may also be becausethey're holding you accountable.
You said you were going to dothis two weeks ago and did you
do it Right?
Are those some of the dynamicsof why it drives that sort of
impact?
Liz Scully (08:03):
Absolutely.
And the other thing that isvery helpful for us
entrepreneurs is they will helptear you away from the giant
shiny thing that halfway throughthe year distracts you from
your original strategy.
So they'll keep you on track.
They'll give you feedbackgently, but maybe is going to be
quite harsh if it came fromsomeone else.
And, as you said, these peopleinitially are not your friends.
(08:25):
They are other business ownerswho, if it's a good group that
has been carefully curated,they're at the same level as you
, but they have differentexperiences, and that 360 vision
about everything you're doingis incredibly helpful and it
really is very hard to find thatelsewhere.
If you've got an accountabilitybuddy or the guys down the
chamber of commerce, you have tohave a facade with those people
(08:48):
.
Maybe not so much with anaccountability buddy that's only
one person but this is a placewhere you could be truly
yourself and it is so rare inbusiness.
Eric Eden (08:59):
So it seems to me that a lot of people would
gather a personal advisory boardvery informally that they text
or talk to on a regular basisand say, hey, you're my friend,
you're a mentor, perhaps a coach, perhaps a colleague, perhaps
someone they work with beforethey would have this informal
group of people that they wouldget feedback when they're making
(09:23):
decisions on things and theywould want to run it by some
people just to see if they'rethinking about it the right way.
But when you do it informally,there's some challenges to that
because you're not reallykeeping track over a longer
period of time of the adviceyou've gotten and you're not
necessarily being heldaccountable and you're not
(09:43):
necessarily being on track.
Is that one of the main sort ofpitfalls of just doing it
informally, or are there otherpitfalls?
Liz Scully (09:50):
That is definitely one of them.
The other one is that ourfriends tend to think like us or
be very similar to us.
Hopefully, in a well curatedmastermind there will be people
who are kind and generous andwilling to give you advice, but
their mindset and theirexperience is completely
different from yours, and thatfeeling of having somebody point
(10:11):
out the holes that have youweren't even aware there was an
area, that was a blind spot, isso helpful.
It's that getting that 360feeling.
Eric Eden (10:21):
Yeah, I think the tendency of people who are
friends would be to just endorseyour ideas, not poke holes in
them.
That might be the more typicalsort of thing.
You want to be supportive right, that's a natural feeling.
I want to be supportive right,that's a natural feeling.
I want to be supportive of myfriends and some of them that
I'm really close to.
I might challenge them a littlebit, but I more likely would
(10:43):
want to be supportive and try tohelp them endorse their ideas
and encourage them.
Like you're saying, I thinkencouragement is important, but
I think there's some benefits tohaving it in a more formal
group with people like you said.
The right, curated people cangive you more direct feedback.
They may have experiences morerelevant, right.
Liz Scully (11:06):
Absolutely and, to be clear, a mastermind is super
supportive but they're there toexactly do the thing.
That is hard to do for ourselvesto really hold the mirror up
and, as you say, with ourfriends, there is often that
feeling of you have to keepparity.
There is a feeling that maybeyou've asked too many questions,
maybe it's not an equalexchange In a mastermind.
(11:28):
You're there because you'respecifically there to give
feedback and that formal setupit really does open the door to
be okay, I'm in the spotlight,this is what I need and you can
get feedback that is maybestronger than you would normally
get.
Certainly, when I'm coachingmasterminds, there is always a
session in maybe a year-longprogram.
(11:48):
There's a session where, verygently, I have to push people a
lot harder.
It's never the popular session,it's never one people
particularly want, but that'swhat people are paying a coach
or paying a mastermind leaderfor.
You want that moment where,unlike your friends, they're
going to very nicely slap youabout a bit and say what are you
(12:09):
doing?
In a way that maybe yourfriends never will.
Eric Eden (12:13):
So are masterminds for everybody, or are there
certain roles and people andindustries that they're better
for?
Liz Scully (12:21):
Well, there are a couple of industries who they
can't share client information.
Some medical patients can'treally be in the same group.
That's why we have supportgroups, and it's true for some
legal situations.
But if you are in that positionand you're a lawyer, you can
run them for other lawyers.
You just can't run them foryour clients.
Apart from that, you need tolike humans.
I never used to require this assomething, but if you don't
(12:44):
like other humans, if you're notat least extrovert enough to be
okay with five or six people ina group yeah, not for you, but
assuming that you like otherpeople and you're happy to share
information, then yes, theysuit most people.
And if you help people, helpdecisions in your job, which
most of us do, if that's part ofwhat you do, then a mastermind
(13:06):
is going to be a very naturalextension of that.
Eric Eden (13:09):
Is it helpful for people at different levels of
their career?
People at different levels oftheir career I think a lot of
founders would be part ofmasterminds and CEOs, but is it
also helpful for people who arejunior, mid, senior level?
Is there some level that it'smost helpful for?
Liz Scully (13:25):
It works for anyone.
Obviously, you wouldn't want tobe in a position where you've
got a whole bunch of reallysenior founders with a brand new
person, because both of themare going to be irked by that.
The newbie is going to feeloverly intimidated and the
senior people are going to bepeeved that they have to answer
very simple questions.
So as long as it's stratifiedso that you're with a group of
your peers, they work for almosteveryone, and I've worked
(13:47):
within corporations helping themset up their masterminds as
well at all levels so what'sbetter?
Eric Eden (13:55):
Is the in-person or the online mastermind groups
better, or are they different?
I'm curious what, since yousaid you've done both
extensively?
Liz Scully (14:06):
They're different.
So the higher up you go withmasterminds and there are
masterminds that charge wellinto 200 grand a year, that kind
of stuff.
Obviously.
For those people it's actuallyeasier to get them in person
once or twice a year than to tryand get them on Zoom every two
weeks.
They do not have that kind offlexibility where they can carve
(14:27):
out a weekend.
In person.
It's much more intense.
There'll be slightly morepeople.
There is more networking umonline.
I that's what I prefer.
I was nomadic for all for adecade before the pandemic.
In the before times I used tomove around a lot and there my
clients didn't care as long as Iwas in the little rectangle.
(14:49):
So from my point of view it wasgreat.
From my client's point of view,they were getting feedback from
all over the world withouthaving to put shoes on.
So for me I think it dependswhat you're aiming for.
Eric Eden (15:02):
Does some people do a blend?
Do some people do both?
Liz Scully (15:05):
Absolutely.
Some of the really big programsthat I've run masterminds.
As part of their program, theywill have an in-person retreat
and they will have a course,they'll have some one-to-one
coaching and they'll have anongoing mastermind together.
So if you're building a big,fat, lovely course that has all
sorts of bells and whistles,mastermind is an excellent
add-on to that.
Eric Eden (15:26):
So how do people find the right mastermind for them?
Is there a directory or isthere a certain place you go to
find the right curated groupthat you were mentioning?
How do people do that?
I'm just curious.
Liz Scully (15:39):
Sadly it's not that easy.
I wish there was the big fatmastermindcom type place.
But the big thing is to askyour friends, ask around, ask
within your own circle andfollow people that run
masterminds there aren't many ofus, but there are some and make
sure that you have personalrecommendations for some of
their work and make sure theyhave some kind of training,
(16:01):
because the reason that I trainpeople in how to run masterminds
is for a good few years.
Before I offered the course inJanuary and February, a lot of
my friends and colleagues vagueacquaintances would contact me
and say I'm starting amastermind, I've got people sold
on it, I have no idea what I'mdoing and nobody wants to be the
(16:22):
person who's paid for someoneto run something.
And they are franticallycalling their friends saying I
don't know what I'm doing.
Can you help me?
So make sure they've got somekind of experience, some kind of
training, and that somebody hasvouched for them in some manner
.
Super important.
Eric Eden (16:42):
And when people are looking to join a mastermind,
what are the questions that theyshould be thinking through to
know is this mastermind theright one for me?
If there was two or threequestions that they should be
thinking about, what would thosebe?
Liz Scully (16:58):
The first one is have you run masterminds before
Like that is my number onequestion.
Is this the very first timeyou've done this?
And if it is, I would need alot more information about it,
because it's a different skill.
Have you done this before?
Can I speak to some people thathave done it before?
How many, what percentage ofpeople continue from one section
(17:19):
to the next?
So if it's a year longmastermind, how many people roll
through to the next year?
Because if it's like 1%, thatwould imply that they're not
getting enough value to do itagain.
So you want a certain retentionof clients like a high
retention of clients, ideally.
And then, as with all coaches,I think you want to listen to a
(17:39):
lot of their social media,listen to their podcasts and
their lives and see if youactually like them, because if
they annoy you in a four minutevideo, they are really going to
annoy you in a two hourmastermind.
Eric Eden (17:51):
So some masterminds are free but others, like, have
costs, and you said some of themgo up to $200,000.
How do people think about whatthey should pay to be a part of
a mastermind?
Liz Scully (18:01):
To be fair, I actually don't know many people
who are paying the high endstuff.
Most masterminds that I thinkare good because if free
masterminds you can run your ownand they can be fantastic, but
they tend to fizzle out, as youwere talking about with your
friends that.
I've noticed that within myclients and colleagues that will
just run a free one often onlylast three or four months.
(18:22):
So by paying you've gotlongevity, you've got coaching,
you've got support around it andthose programs seem to run for
a year long program and a moresenior level is somewhere
between 10 grand and 15, 20.
Obviously, your mileage willvary and what you want is
something that isn't anoutrageous stretch for your
business and whatever theresults are.
(18:43):
We're talking about businessmasterminds but you can have
masterminds for anythingwhatever that you want to pool
that information that as long asthe net gain from the
mastermind.
So in mine I'm assuming thatpeople will grow their business
by at least 60 to 80 grand, say,minimum.
So a 10 grand investment or a20 grand investment for that is
(19:05):
a perfectly reasonable thing toput your money down.
They're the sort ofcalculations you want to be
looking at.
Is this the amount I'm payingfor the mastermind Is the
outcome that I am fairly likelyto get.
Is that proportional?
Eric Eden (19:21):
I think that's a great formula if you think about
how much you would invest inbeing part of it and can you get
somewhere between five to 10xthat value back, like that would
be great.
I think, investment for a lotof businesses.
So what sort of impact have youseen when people take the
plunge and they do this and theyinvest the time?
Have you seen?
Liz Scully (19:45):
the people get that sort of success as a result of
the masterminds.
Absolutely I'm not going to beone of those people that says,
oh yeah, people have 10x theirbusiness during the time, but
I've certainly seen peopledouble or triple what they
charge, and some of my peoplethat have been with me for years
they're there because they getresults.
They are launching new programs, they are getting new clients.
They are doubling at leastdoubling their income.
(20:07):
Actually, a lot of peopledouble their income.
It's not in the first year,though.
In the first year we put all ofthe foundations in place.
Results the results come theyear after when you build on
those foundations, and I thinkthat's the concern for me when
people are looking atmasterminds.
If they're promising you theearth tomorrow, they're lying.
It's not going to happen.
(20:27):
These things.
Take a while yourself in yourown business.
We build up to this stuff.
Eric Eden (20:32):
Absolutely.
So I'm going to link to yourwebsite in the show notes
because I think you have a lotof great resources there that
I've checked out aboutmasterminds from being a part of
masterminds to actually how torun a mastermind.
So I think people should gocheck out all of those resources
.
But before I let you off thehook, if you met somebody like
(20:55):
me and they asked you, can youjust front me one of your
favorite secrets about the magicof masterminds, what would you
say?
Liz Scully (21:07):
your favorite secrets about the magic of
masterminds.
What would you say?
Almost everyone can benefitfrom running a mastermind.
You need a little bit oftraining and, just like running
a webinar, you just need to knowwhat to do.
But they are.
If you add them to yourbusiness, they're great to join,
but to run one, they're amazing.
There's no homework, yourclients love them and they are
let's whisper it lucrative, verylucrative, and they are super
(21:30):
fun.
And that is the secret that,because so many are badly run,
it's hidden how great they are.
Eric Eden (21:38):
Why is that?
Why are they so lucrative andso fun?
Liz Scully (21:47):
so fun to write.
As said, my masterminds are twohours as long as I am dressed
and facing the camera.
That's it.
That's my prep.
I don't know the questions thatpeople are going to be asking
me, so I can't prep.
I have an amazing group that Ihave carefully curated.
They give excellent advice soeven if, for some freakish
reason, I couldn't answer thequestion that was asked, the
other people are going to givegreat answers and I know that
(22:08):
because I have carefully curatedthem.
So that is good.
At the end of the call, theyall get on with their goals.
I go about my day filled full oftheir good thoughts and
basically my job is to hang outwith brilliant people discussing
how to grow their business.
It's just the best thing,because I'm never short of ideas
and things to test and thingsto try.
(22:29):
So that's lovely.
And each mastermind is like alittle Petri dish that if I want
to ask a quick question or testa line of copy or would you
mind answering this survey,they're there and they're keen
and they're paying attention andthey grow together like this
lovely community.
It's just as you can tell Ilove them.
Eric Eden (22:51):
I can see why that sounds like a lot of fun for
sure.
Any final thoughts before wewrap up.
Anything, I didn't ask that youwanted to share.
Liz Scully (22:59):
Just, masterminds are great, and the problem is
for me in my industry is thatmost people have never heard of
masterminds.
The few people who've heard ofmasterminds have either been in
a terrible one or had a friendwho was in a terrible one.
I'm here to tell you that thereare great masterminds out there
.
You've just got to look forthem and they are so worth it.
Eric Eden (23:21):
And you can live the dream.
I love it.
All right.
Thank you so much for beingwith us.
Liz, I'm going to link toRethink Central in the show
notes so people can get thereeasily, connect with you and
learn more about the wonderfulworld of masterminds.
Thanks so much for being withus today.
Welcome to today's episode.
Today we are talking about allthings masterminds and we have a
great guest to help us withthis topic.
Today, our guest is Liz Scully.
Liz is an expert in masterminds.
Welcome to the show.
Thank you for having me.
It's lovely to be here.
So why don't we start off?
(00:22):
Before we jump into Masterminds, tell us a little bit about
your background, who you are andwhat you do?
Liz Scully (00:29):
Sure.
So I spent 20 years working onbig Hollywood films in
post-production very collegiate,very much working as a group
together to produce amazingthings, and it was wonderful.
But it was very stressful and weworked with very driven people
and just awful things happen allthe time terrible calamities
(00:51):
but we got through it as a group.
And when I left the filmindustry because I'd heard of
this thing called a weekend andI quite liked that idea and it's
true they exist so once Istarted having those and I
started my own business, Imissed that collegiate feeling
incredibly, and what we achievein film is all based around what
(01:12):
the group can do, andmasterminds do exactly that and
that is why I'm so wedded tothem.
So I work as a businessstrategist now and I work with
all of my clients in mastermindgroups and it brings all of that
good stuff from the filmindustry where because, if you
think about it, a film directorwho is very directed and very
(01:33):
clear and has a massive visionbut also has a huge number of
things going on, is very like anentrepreneur that's pushed and
time short and wants to doamazing things, has a million
things to juggle.
They're really very similar.
So that's pushed and time shortand wants to do amazing things,
has a million things to juggle.
They're really very similar, sothat's what I did.
Eric Eden (01:50):
And for everyone's benefit.
Can you share a little bitabout what is the definition of
a mastermind and how do theywork?
Liz Scully (02:00):
Sure.
So sadly there isn't anofficial mastermind definition,
although one day it will happen,I swear.
So masterminds are these kindof undefined things for many
people, but for me they meanspecifically that there are a
small group of people that meetand we talk about plans, we
discuss things, we havespotlights where you can ask a
(02:23):
question and we make a plan thistime that you will have
achieved by next time.
So it's got built-inaccountability, it's got a place
where you can ask questions andyou have longevity in it.
So, whether or not you'remeeting for an intense in-person
weekend and a month out you'regoing to discuss if you hit your
(02:44):
goals, or most of themasterminds I run are online and
we meet on every other week fora year and during that time you
get this real support, you getaccountability, you get a place
to ask questions.
Most importantly, you get aplace to ideate, because you
know yourself when you'rerunning a business.
There really aren't many placesthat you can think without
(03:05):
having to have a facade about oh, everything's going, or your
family, who adore you, I'm sure,but aren't necessarily the best
arbitrators of information.
It's a really lovely littlespace, but with goals and with
support.
As you can tell, I love itgoals and with support.
Eric Eden (03:27):
As you can tell, I love them.
That's great.
And so these are smaller groups.
Let's call it around seven to10 people, is that right?
Liz Scully (03:31):
You can run them in person.
I would say people tend to runbetween 10 and 15 people,
sometimes up to 20.
The groups I run myself arebetween four and six, because
they're very intimate, they'revery long running and smaller.
Those intimate groups worktogether.
Sadly, this does bring upsomething that there are a lot
of things called mastermindsthat are simply a networking
(03:52):
event with the word mastermindslapped on the front, and I
think that's the problem.
There isn't a definite brandthat is a mastermind.
So if you've been to somethingwhich was effectively a mixer
over a weekend, yeah, I wouldsay not a mastermind.
Eric Eden (04:09):
So we're ready to be inspired.
Liz Scully (04:11):
Tell us a story or two about the benefits of
masterminds, eitherparticipating them or running
them, that you've seenparticipating them or running
them that you've seen, apartfrom the fact I've seen it in my
own business, I am absolutelycertain the reason my own
business has grown quickly isbecause I spend all my time in
(04:33):
masterminds hearing people giveamazing advice to each other.
So, partially because you are ina position where you are
thinking about someone else'sbusiness as well as your own, we
can be a lot more open about it.
The other way, you can look atsomeone else's love life and
think, oh, those people, theyshould not be together.
But on the inside of therelationship you can't see that
(04:54):
at all.
But it's the same with your ownmarketing, with your own
strategy, with your funnel buildall of those things.
You can't see inside the jarwhat the label says.
So that feeling it's reallyhelpful to have someone else
point it out and because theyhave longevity, there is that
feeling of cyclical stuff.
Coaching doesn't tend to lastthat long, really realistically,
(05:17):
and many people are in mymasterminds for years at a time.
I think my longest client hasbeen with me for over a decade
because it works and thatfeeling of a group holding a
vision for you is incrediblypowerful.
Eric Eden (05:33):
And so what are some of the benefits?
If someone wants to join amastermind Is part of the
benefit tell me if I have thisright is part of the benefit.
Because, as an entrepreneur ora founder, the benefit tell me
if I have this right as part ofthe benefit because, as an
entrepreneur or a founder, youmight tell yourself a story in
your head of I think this, I'mbuilding this product, this
product will do this for thesepeople, and if you don't have
(05:56):
other people to bounce it off of, you could just tell yourself a
story and then really believeit and then be off track.
Whereas if you have thispersonal advisor group or a
mastermind and you can run it by, whether it's five to 15 people
, and say what do you guys think?
This is what I'm doing?
(06:17):
People can give you feedbackand advice and say that's good,
but have you thought about thisor what about this, or have you
thought about it this way?
Is that one of the big benefitsof it?
Liz Scully (06:29):
Absolutely.
And also there is presumablysomebody running the mastermind,
so you will no doubt get someform of coaching from them as
well.
So, yes, there's a sort ofvalidation, but there's also the
opposite side of that, which is, if you're feeling a bit down,
if you've had a tough day withclients, if you go to your
mastermind, they're likely topoint out all of the good things
, all of the things that you'repositive at, so they can scoop
(06:50):
you up on a bad day, they canredirect you in a positive way.
And what I find with my clientsis often that it's subtle.
Over time we start and we putin place all of those lovely
foundations.
One of my clients said to mefairly recently I don't know, I
(07:11):
know it's the mastermind, Idon't know exactly what you did,
but it's as though the internethas backed the money truck up
to my business and it won't stopnow.
And that's what a mastermindwill do.
It will allow you to coursecorrect till you get really
focused and you get the resultsyou want.
Eric Eden (07:26):
So I'm interested in that Is that because sometimes
in the mastermind you can getdirect feedback that might be a
little bit more direct or harshthan just a friend would give
you advice.
And it might be from people whohave a lot of experience in the
areas and they're coaching youbased on their experience in the
(07:49):
mastermind.
And it may also be becausethey're holding you accountable.
You said you were going to dothis two weeks ago and did you
do it Right?
Are those some of the dynamicsof why it drives that sort of
impact?
Liz Scully (08:03):
Absolutely.
And the other thing that isvery helpful for us
entrepreneurs is they will helptear you away from the giant
shiny thing that halfway throughthe year distracts you from
your original strategy.
So they'll keep you on track.
They'll give you feedbackgently, but maybe is going to be
quite harsh if it came fromsomeone else.
And, as you said, these peopleinitially are not your friends.
(08:25):
They are other business ownerswho, if it's a good group that
has been carefully curated,they're at the same level as you
, but they have differentexperiences, and that 360 vision
about everything you're doingis incredibly helpful and it
really is very hard to find thatelsewhere.
If you've got an accountabilitybuddy or the guys down the
chamber of commerce, you have tohave a facade with those people
(08:48):
.
Maybe not so much with anaccountability buddy that's only
one person but this is a placewhere you could be truly
yourself and it is so rare inbusiness.
Eric Eden (08:59):
So it seems to me that a lot of people would
gather a personal advisory boardvery informally that they text
or talk to on a regular basisand say, hey, you're my friend,
you're a mentor, perhaps a coach, perhaps a colleague, perhaps
someone they work with beforethey would have this informal
group of people that they wouldget feedback when they're making
(09:23):
decisions on things and theywould want to run it by some
people just to see if they'rethinking about it the right way.
But when you do it informally,there's some challenges to that
because you're not reallykeeping track over a longer
period of time of the adviceyou've gotten and you're not
necessarily being heldaccountable and you're not
(09:43):
necessarily being on track.
Is that one of the main sort ofpitfalls of just doing it
informally, or are there otherpitfalls?
Liz Scully (09:50):
That is definitely one of them.
The other one is that ourfriends tend to think like us or
be very similar to us.
Hopefully, in a well curatedmastermind there will be people
who are kind and generous andwilling to give you advice, but
their mindset and theirexperience is completely
different from yours, and thatfeeling of having somebody point
(10:11):
out the holes that have youweren't even aware there was an
area, that was a blind spot, isso helpful.
It's that getting that 360feeling.
Eric Eden (10:21):
Yeah, I think the tendency of people who are
friends would be to just endorseyour ideas, not poke holes in
them.
That might be the more typicalsort of thing.
You want to be supportive right, that's a natural feeling.
I want to be supportive right,that's a natural feeling.
I want to be supportive of myfriends and some of them that
I'm really close to.
I might challenge them a littlebit, but I more likely would
(10:43):
want to be supportive and try tohelp them endorse their ideas
and encourage them.
Like you're saying, I thinkencouragement is important, but
I think there's some benefits tohaving it in a more formal
group with people like you said.
The right, curated people cangive you more direct feedback.
They may have experiences morerelevant, right.
Liz Scully (11:06):
Absolutely and, to be clear, a mastermind is super
supportive but they're there toexactly do the thing.
That is hard to do for ourselvesto really hold the mirror up
and, as you say, with ourfriends, there is often that
feeling of you have to keepparity.
There is a feeling that maybeyou've asked too many questions,
maybe it's not an equalexchange In a mastermind.
(11:28):
You're there because you'respecifically there to give
feedback and that formal setupit really does open the door to
be okay, I'm in the spotlight,this is what I need and you can
get feedback that is maybestronger than you would normally
get.
Certainly, when I'm coachingmasterminds, there is always a
session in maybe a year-longprogram.
(11:48):
There's a session where, verygently, I have to push people a
lot harder.
It's never the popular session,it's never one people
particularly want, but that'swhat people are paying a coach
or paying a mastermind leaderfor.
You want that moment where,unlike your friends, they're
going to very nicely slap youabout a bit and say what are you
(12:09):
doing?
In a way that maybe yourfriends never will.
Eric Eden (12:13):
So are masterminds for everybody, or are there
certain roles and people andindustries that they're better
for?
Liz Scully (12:21):
Well, there are a couple of industries who they
can't share client information.
Some medical patients can'treally be in the same group.
That's why we have supportgroups, and it's true for some
legal situations.
But if you are in that positionand you're a lawyer, you can
run them for other lawyers.
You just can't run them foryour clients.
Apart from that, you need tolike humans.
I never used to require this assomething, but if you don't
(12:44):
like other humans, if you're notat least extrovert enough to be
okay with five or six people ina group yeah, not for you, but
assuming that you like otherpeople and you're happy to share
information, then yes, theysuit most people.
And if you help people, helpdecisions in your job, which
most of us do, if that's part ofwhat you do, then a mastermind
(13:06):
is going to be a very naturalextension of that.
Eric Eden (13:09):
Is it helpful for people at different levels of
their career?
People at different levels oftheir career I think a lot of
founders would be part ofmasterminds and CEOs, but is it
also helpful for people who arejunior, mid, senior level?
Is there some level that it'smost helpful for?
Liz Scully (13:25):
It works for anyone.
Obviously, you wouldn't want tobe in a position where you've
got a whole bunch of reallysenior founders with a brand new
person, because both of themare going to be irked by that.
The newbie is going to feeloverly intimidated and the
senior people are going to bepeeved that they have to answer
very simple questions.
So as long as it's stratifiedso that you're with a group of
your peers, they work for almosteveryone, and I've worked
(13:47):
within corporations helping themset up their masterminds as
well at all levels so what'sbetter?
Eric Eden (13:55):
Is the in-person or the online mastermind groups
better, or are they different?
I'm curious what, since yousaid you've done both
extensively?
Liz Scully (14:06):
They're different.
So the higher up you go withmasterminds and there are
masterminds that charge wellinto 200 grand a year, that kind
of stuff.
Obviously.
For those people it's actuallyeasier to get them in person
once or twice a year than to tryand get them on Zoom every two
weeks.
They do not have that kind offlexibility where they can carve
(14:27):
out a weekend.
In person.
It's much more intense.
There'll be slightly morepeople.
There is more networking umonline.
I that's what I prefer.
I was nomadic for all for adecade before the pandemic.
In the before times I used tomove around a lot and there my
clients didn't care as long as Iwas in the little rectangle.
(14:49):
So from my point of view it wasgreat.
From my client's point of view,they were getting feedback from
all over the world withouthaving to put shoes on.
So for me I think it dependswhat you're aiming for.
Eric Eden (15:02):
Does some people do a blend?
Do some people do both?
Liz Scully (15:05):
Absolutely.
Some of the really big programsthat I've run masterminds.
As part of their program, theywill have an in-person retreat
and they will have a course,they'll have some one-to-one
coaching and they'll have anongoing mastermind together.
So if you're building a big,fat, lovely course that has all
sorts of bells and whistles,mastermind is an excellent
add-on to that.
Eric Eden (15:26):
So how do people find the right mastermind for them?
Is there a directory or isthere a certain place you go to
find the right curated groupthat you were mentioning?
How do people do that?
I'm just curious.
Liz Scully (15:39):
Sadly it's not that easy.
I wish there was the big fatmastermindcom type place.
But the big thing is to askyour friends, ask around, ask
within your own circle andfollow people that run
masterminds there aren't many ofus, but there are some and make
sure that you have personalrecommendations for some of
their work and make sure theyhave some kind of training,
(16:01):
because the reason that I trainpeople in how to run masterminds
is for a good few years.
Before I offered the course inJanuary and February, a lot of
my friends and colleagues vagueacquaintances would contact me
and say I'm starting amastermind, I've got people sold
on it, I have no idea what I'mdoing and nobody wants to be the
(16:22):
person who's paid for someoneto run something.
And they are franticallycalling their friends saying I
don't know what I'm doing.
Can you help me?
So make sure they've got somekind of experience, some kind of
training, and that somebody hasvouched for them in some manner
.
Super important.
Eric Eden (16:42):
And when people are looking to join a mastermind,
what are the questions that theyshould be thinking through to
know is this mastermind theright one for me?
If there was two or threequestions that they should be
thinking about, what would thosebe?
Liz Scully (16:58):
The first one is have you run masterminds before
Like that is my number onequestion.
Is this the very first timeyou've done this?
And if it is, I would need alot more information about it,
because it's a different skill.
Have you done this before?
Can I speak to some people thathave done it before?
How many, what percentage ofpeople continue from one section
(17:19):
to the next?
So if it's a year longmastermind, how many people roll
through to the next year?
Because if it's like 1%, thatwould imply that they're not
getting enough value to do itagain.
So you want a certain retentionof clients like a high
retention of clients, ideally.
And then, as with all coaches,I think you want to listen to a
(17:39):
lot of their social media,listen to their podcasts and
their lives and see if youactually like them, because if
they annoy you in a four minutevideo, they are really going to
annoy you in a two hourmastermind.
Eric Eden (17:51):
So some masterminds are free but others, like, have
costs, and you said some of themgo up to $200,000.
How do people think about whatthey should pay to be a part of
a mastermind?
Liz Scully (18:01):
To be fair, I actually don't know many people
who are paying the high endstuff.
Most masterminds that I thinkare good because if free
masterminds you can run your ownand they can be fantastic, but
they tend to fizzle out, as youwere talking about with your
friends that.
I've noticed that within myclients and colleagues that will
just run a free one often onlylast three or four months.
(18:22):
So by paying you've gotlongevity, you've got coaching,
you've got support around it andthose programs seem to run for
a year long program and a moresenior level is somewhere
between 10 grand and 15, 20.
Obviously, your mileage willvary and what you want is
something that isn't anoutrageous stretch for your
business and whatever theresults are.
(18:43):
We're talking about businessmasterminds but you can have
masterminds for anythingwhatever that you want to pool
that information that as long asthe net gain from the
mastermind.
So in mine I'm assuming thatpeople will grow their business
by at least 60 to 80 grand, say,minimum.
So a 10 grand investment or a20 grand investment for that is
(19:05):
a perfectly reasonable thing toput your money down.
They're the sort ofcalculations you want to be
looking at.
Is this the amount I'm payingfor the mastermind Is the
outcome that I am fairly likelyto get.
Is that proportional?
Eric Eden (19:21):
I think that's a great formula if you think about
how much you would invest inbeing part of it and can you get
somewhere between five to 10xthat value back, like that would
be great.
I think, investment for a lotof businesses.
So what sort of impact have youseen when people take the
plunge and they do this and theyinvest the time?
Have you seen?
Liz Scully (19:45):
the people get that sort of success as a result of
the masterminds.
Absolutely I'm not going to beone of those people that says,
oh yeah, people have 10x theirbusiness during the time, but
I've certainly seen peopledouble or triple what they
charge, and some of my peoplethat have been with me for years
they're there because they getresults.
They are launching new programs, they are getting new clients.
They are doubling at leastdoubling their income.
(20:07):
Actually, a lot of peopledouble their income.
It's not in the first year,though.
In the first year we put all ofthe foundations in place.
Results the results come theyear after when you build on
those foundations, and I thinkthat's the concern for me when
people are looking atmasterminds.
If they're promising you theearth tomorrow, they're lying.
It's not going to happen.
(20:27):
These things.
Take a while yourself in yourown business.
We build up to this stuff.
Eric Eden (20:32):
Absolutely.
So I'm going to link to yourwebsite in the show notes
because I think you have a lotof great resources there that
I've checked out aboutmasterminds from being a part of
masterminds to actually how torun a mastermind.
So I think people should gocheck out all of those resources
.
But before I let you off thehook, if you met somebody like
(20:55):
me and they asked you, can youjust front me one of your
favorite secrets about the magicof masterminds, what would you
say?
Liz Scully (21:07):
your favorite secrets about the magic of
masterminds.
What would you say?
Almost everyone can benefitfrom running a mastermind.
You need a little bit oftraining and, just like running
a webinar, you just need to knowwhat to do.
But they are.
If you add them to yourbusiness, they're great to join,
but to run one, they're amazing.
There's no homework, yourclients love them and they are
let's whisper it lucrative, verylucrative, and they are super
(21:30):
fun.
And that is the secret that,because so many are badly run,
it's hidden how great they are.
Eric Eden (21:38):
Why is that?
Why are they so lucrative andso fun?
Liz Scully (21:47):
so fun to write.
As said, my masterminds are twohours as long as I am dressed
and facing the camera.
That's it.
That's my prep.
I don't know the questions thatpeople are going to be asking
me, so I can't prep.
I have an amazing group that Ihave carefully curated.
They give excellent advice soeven if, for some freakish
reason, I couldn't answer thequestion that was asked, the
other people are going to givegreat answers and I know that
(22:08):
because I have carefully curatedthem.
So that is good.
At the end of the call, theyall get on with their goals.
I go about my day filled full oftheir good thoughts and
basically my job is to hang outwith brilliant people discussing
how to grow their business.
It's just the best thing,because I'm never short of ideas
and things to test and thingsto try.
(22:29):
So that's lovely.
And each mastermind is like alittle Petri dish that if I want
to ask a quick question or testa line of copy or would you
mind answering this survey,they're there and they're keen
and they're paying attention andthey grow together like this
lovely community.
It's just as you can tell Ilove them.
Eric Eden (22:51):
I can see why that sounds like a lot of fun for
sure.
Any final thoughts before wewrap up.
Anything, I didn't ask that youwanted to share.
Liz Scully (22:59):
Just, masterminds are great, and the problem is
for me in my industry is thatmost people have never heard of
masterminds.
The few people who've heard ofmasterminds have either been in
a terrible one or had a friendwho was in a terrible one.
I'm here to tell you that thereare great masterminds out there
.
You've just got to look forthem and they are so worth it.
Eric Eden (23:21):
And you can live the dream.
I love it.
All right.
Thank you so much for beingwith us.
Liz, I'm going to link toRethink Central in the show
notes so people can get thereeasily, connect with you and
learn more about the wonderfulworld of masterminds.
Thanks so much for being withus today.
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