August 12, 2024 • 22 mins
Discover how to transform your marketing efforts into powerful investments that yield incredible returns. Join us as we chat with Caroline Crawford, a marketing communications veteran with over 13 years of experience. Caroline shares profound insights, including a striking case from the wellness industry where reducing marketing efforts by half led to a remarkable boost in engagement and leads. Learn why concentrating on what aligns with your brand's core message and the channels your team loves can sometimes mean doing less to achieve more.
Ever wondered how to keep up with the ever-changing world of marketing? Caroline explores the shifting dynamics of marketing channels, the rising costs of platforms like Google and LinkedIn, and the latest changes in email marketing regulations. She highlights the essentials of a strong foundation—like a well-optimized website and efficient sales workflows—to ensure your advertising efforts truly pay off. Gain clarity on the nuances of SEO and the specialized knowledge needed to stay ahead of Google's algorithm changes, all while prioritizing your marketing goals effectively.
Struggling to make the most out of limited marketing resources? Caroline offers practical strategies for maximizing content impact, including how to repurpose a single article into a month's worth of engaging material. She emphasizes the critical need for setting clear goals, whether it's generating leads or building brand awareness. Plus, get a sneak peek into the future with insights on the rising influence of AI tools in marketing and the importance of discerning which new technologies will genuinely connect with your audience. This episode is packed with actionable advice to streamline your marketing strategies and boost your ROI.
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Eric Eden (00:00):
Welcome to today's episode.
Today we are talking aboutmarketing as an investment and
how to get the best ROI on yourmarketing, and we have a
fantastic guest today, CarolineCrawford.
Caroline Crawford (00:13):
Welcome to the show.
Hi Eric, Thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm excited to be here.
Eric Eden (00:19):
So why don't we start off by you sharing just a
minute or two about who you are,what you've done, what you're
doing?
Caroline Crawford (00:26):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Yeah, so I've been in marketingcommunications for over 13
years now.
I started CultivateCommunications and we specialize
in developing and optimizingmarketing functions for
businesses by providing focusand structure around their brand
, sales and marketing and makingsure all of that's connected.
My specialty, my wheelhouse,the reason I love marketing, is
(00:48):
because of how it can all allthese different components
connect and really great at thevision of it all and then as
well as how do we bring it allto life and bringing that
brand's voice to life.
Eric Eden (01:01):
That is very important.
That is a challenge that manybusinesses face.
How do you bring it to life?
How do you get that momentum?
So we're ready to be inspired.
Why don't we start by yousharing a story about some of
the best marketing you've done,the marketing that you're the
most proud of?
Caroline Crawford (01:20):
Yeah, I think something that happens a
lot with businesses is that theytry to do too much when it
comes to marketing and it endsup diluting their message and
their branding and theirstrategy, like it's.
They think it's all connectedbecause they're spread out in
all these areas, but ultimatelyit's leading back to essentially
(01:42):
not providing a lot of greatresults for them, and then
they're starting to burn out,they're starting to get feel
hopeless.
So I did have a company thatwas in the wellness space, that
they were doing everythingacross the board Anything you
can think of posting videos onYouTube, on every social media
channel, publishing articles,doing the email newsletters, all
(02:02):
the things and they were likemy marketing is just not working
.
And they had invested inmarketing before and just were
doing all the recommendationsthat whatever, whoever they were
working with before me weredoing.
And so by the time they reachedme, they were really fed up.
I was essentially their lastdying hope, if you will.
I was essentially their lastdying hope, if you will.
(02:23):
And upon talking with them, Istarted asking questions what do
you like doing?
Where do you feel that you'reable to get more of your message
out?
Just trying to pinpoint,putting less attention on the
specifics of the channels thatthey were working with, at least
for right then in that momentand asking and trying to get to
(02:47):
understand them and their brand,and what I started to uncover
was that, because they're inwellness, the articles made a
lot of sense for them and theirapproach to their YouTube videos
weren't really aligning.
Just because of how they wereapproaching them it was very
forced, so therefore, anyonewatching it it was not a very
compelling video and things likethat.
(03:08):
Their Instagram.
They weren't putting thoughtinto how they can prolong the
effort that their articlesprovided them and really bring
it into something that fueledthese other channels.
I was actually talking to theCEO and I was asking her these
(03:30):
personal questions what do youlike to do personally?
Where do you like to spend yourtime in terms of these things
that you're creating?
And she even stopped me at onepoint saying I don't know, just
tell me what to do.
And I was like you are herebecause you followed everyone
else's advice without reallyunderstanding who your brand was
(03:50):
and what you like to do andwhat was authentic.
Double down on what it is thatactually aligns with your brand
and that allows you to bettercommunicate your messaging to
better educate the audience thatyou're with, and we're going to
(04:12):
cut out everything that doesn'talign.
So I actually we scaled herefforts, I think, by 50% at
least, so where she was nolonger burned out, her team was
no longer burned out and theyeverything had a purpose of her
articles started to fuel heremails, her we scaled back on
certain social media channels,the YouTube videos and the
(04:35):
strategy around that shifted tobe a supplement or amplifier of
the articles as, like that, corecontent driver and within a
month of scaling her effortsback 50% versus adding she
started seeing an increase inengagement in her emails,
engagement on her social mediaposts, leads coming in and I
(04:56):
think it just goes to show that,like, sometimes less is more in
all of this.
So that is one of my mostfavorite marketing stories in
all of this.
Eric Eden (05:05):
So that is one of my most favorite marketing stories
.
So the privilege of focus iswhat you're saying, because if
you try to do everything, you'rereally a master of nothing,
right?
Caroline Crawford (05:18):
Yeah, in some ways yeah.
Eric Eden (05:21):
And it seems counterintuitive too.
Yeah the temptation is to getout there and do everything,
because people have differentexperiences and will give advice
say the email marketing hasbeen great for me, or Google
advertising has been great forme, or blogging has been great
for me.
And the reality is that fordifferent businesses, certain
channels or certain tactics canbe their number one biggest
driver.
But that doesn't necessarilyapply that it should be the case
(05:44):
for all businesses.
And the thing that I've seen isthat if people look across all
the things they're doing, likeyou were saying, everything may
directionally work, like you maywin business across a lot of
channels, but when you look atthe ROI or marketing as an
investment, what you start tosee is you start to see the ROI
(06:06):
in certain channels or certaintactics is much higher than
others.
The idea to focus on the oneswhere it's really working.
Some of the ways I talk topeople about this is tell me
what's actually working the best.
What are the one or two thingsyou're doing that is working the
best?
It's a different flavor of whatyou asked of what do you like
(06:27):
doing, because if you don't likedoing it, then it's probably
not going to be the best channel.
Caroline Crawford (06:31):
Yeah, for sure, and I think people look
see ROI as like almost it's veryquantitative, understandably.
But for in the case of justthese articles, you invest more
time, money and energy intocreating these articles.
You invest more time, money andenergy into creating these
articles.
That articles then makes itquicker and less, probably costs
less and probably moreeffective to fuel all these
(06:54):
other channels, because you canthen repurpose that article into
an email, repurpose that intosocial media posts and it can
just fuel all these differentplaces and be very cohesive.
And so the ROI could look verydifferent than what I think some
business leaders have in mind.
Eric Eden (07:11):
Yeah, I think that it's interesting how marketing
is evolving and that thechannels and the tactics that
people use today, the ROI theycan get from those things, is
also evolving.
For example, advertising isgetting a lot more expensive on
Google, on LinkedIn, and sothat's something people need to
(07:34):
think about is does it stillmake as much sense as it did
even a couple of years ago?
Other channels like emailmarketing.
It used to be that you couldsend emails to people even if
they hadn't opted in, and youwould still get a pretty good
result, but now things haveevolved, that's not really a
viable tactic anymore by thenumbers, and so I think people
(07:57):
have to really think about whatmakes sense is how things are
evolving in marketing as well.
Caroline Crawford (08:02):
I think yes, in the sense that the way that
marketing is evolving, it's somuch more competitive.
You are competing for less timein the consumer's eyes for
attention, and there's so muchout there.
Consumers are being bombarded,and that's why a lot of the ad
platforms, like LinkedIn or allthe social media platforms, do
(08:22):
bidding structures, because theyknow it's competitive.
However, I also think that it'sin the case of I think,
understanding how certainchannels work or how certain
marketing efforts will work, isreally important to make it, to
understand what's going to beour next move here.
So, for instance and the reasonbeing is because you may not be
(08:45):
ready for advertising is still agreat, can be still a very good
use of marketing budget if it'sdone well, but if you don't
have the foundation that allowsthose leads to come in and
actually streamline that process, then advertising it's just
like you're just catching a netand you have no idea where the
(09:06):
fish are.
It's just you have nowhere tocatch them.
And so I think there's abalance in keeping up with the
evolution of what's happeningwith marketing, but also a deep
understanding of what each ofthese channels and options will
actually bring you against yourgoals.
And then also.
Are you ready for that?
(09:27):
What are you?
What kind of foundation do youhave in place to be able to
better support these effortsthat you're investing in?
Eric Eden (09:36):
I think the foundation is really important.
The example you said aroundadvertising if you don't have
the foundation of a greatwebsite and great landing pages
and the right workflows forpeople to become a customer from
the website, all of thosefoundational things need to be
there before you're ready tostart spending and investing a
(09:56):
lot of money in advertising 100%.
Caroline Crawford (09:58):
I think a lot of the times when you're
seeing no ROI, it could be astrategy problem, but the
strategy can be adjusted easilya lot of the times.
But if you are getting somethings but they're not turning
into sales, that is a foundationproblem, that is a kink in your
(10:20):
sales process.
Eric Eden (10:22):
And part of the problem you mentioned is
marketing is pretty hard.
It's probably getting harder interms of complexity and
competition and costs, and itseems like that's one of the
main challenges for businessesis there's so many different
areas of marketing and some ofthem have gotten harder and more
(10:44):
complex in recent years.
For example, I'll give anotherchannel that I think is evolving
pretty rapidly is SEO.
Some people are saying it'sArmageddon for SEO because of
how Google is changing, with AI,summaries and videos at the top
, and it's much harder to getnear the top of the search
results in Google and for a longtime a lot of businesses who
(11:05):
were doing blogs or articlesrelied on that, and the impact
for companies seems to vary, soit's not like across the board
tough for everybody, but forsome people it is and other
people it's actually a benefit.
So I think the question is howdo companies navigate the
complexity as all of thesechannels evolve?
(11:26):
What do you suggest when you'reworking with clients to
navigate that?
Caroline Crawford (11:31):
I think you have to have a core
understanding and goal in mindto what are we really trying to
accomplish and what's ourbiggest priority, because there
is a difference in the types ofmarketing that you do, where
certain channels will lenditself better and therefore the
results are going to bedifferent.
But if your goal is gettingleads, but you're posting on
(11:54):
Instagram and not doing so in away that's designed to convert
or try to capture leads andconvert leads, but you're
posting on Instagram and notdoing so in a way that's
designed to convert or try tocapture leads and convert leads,
then you're going to say we'regetting followers.
So, technically, what you'redoing on social is successful in
the standards of social media,but it's not converting to these
larger business goals.
So I think you have to balancethose priorities.
But I think, when it comes tothe complexities and SEO is a
(12:16):
great example I keep going backto this, like understanding what
you're about to get yourselfinto.
The reason being is becausesomething like SEO, where the
Google changes every other day,like you need someone dedicated
to SEO who's really well versedin understanding how frequent it
changes and how to becompetitive and always being
(12:39):
proactive, and that's just oneexample right, and so that is a
long gain.
If you're going to invest in SEO, yes, you could set up some
good foundation that's going tohelp and support you.
But if you're trying to bereally aggressive, especially if
you're like a local business,then you have to be willing to
invest in SEO over and overagain, whereas if you're trying
to be really aggressive,especially if you're like a
local business, then you have tobe willing to invest in SEO
over and over again, whereas ifyou're a service-based business
(13:01):
you operate online you can maybedo again like a one-time
investment in, like a strongkeyword strategy, and then maybe
optimize.
It's not as aggressive, butmaybe you need to be more
aggressive in how you approachLinkedIn, for instance.
So I think it varies based onwhat type of company you have,
what your goals are and, again,a deep understanding of what
(13:23):
each of these channels ormarketing portals will do for
you, because it's going to vary.
And then again, just going backto my example, where it sounds
very complex and it sounds verycomplicated because there are so
many pieces, but the more youcan focus on, okay, this is our
(13:43):
initiative, let's say, in thecase of the example I provided
earlier, articles are initiative.
That's where we're going tospend a good chunk of time and
investment to make sure we'reputting out kick-ass articles.
We're also then going to usethose articles to fuel other
things, because that one articlethat you spend and this is
where potentially SEO and a blogwriter can come into play and
(14:06):
you can stretch out thatinvestment that article can fuel
10 social media posts and threeemails, and so, therefore,
you've got almost an entiremonth of content just from one
article.
That's fueling, and so that'show you can simplify it in terms
of okay, we are on all thesechannels, but there is still
(14:26):
that sort of through linebecause we're repurposing some
things.
Eric Eden (14:30):
Yeah, I think that's a great example.
One of the things you talkabout is how to do marketing
when you have limited resources,and I think that's a great
example.
One of the things you talkabout is how to do marketing
when you have limited resources,and I think that example plays
into that, because to build afull stack marketing team they
can do volumes of things acrossall of the possible channels can
cost like a couple milliondollars for a B2B company, for
(14:52):
example.
Most people don't have thatamount of money to invest, and
so that example you just sharedis a great one of how do
companies do more when theydon't really have as much to
invest.
But broadly, what do yousuggest when companies don't
have a huge budget or have to bemore guerrilla in marketing?
(15:18):
How do they think about it?
Caroline Crawford (15:20):
Get really clear on your goals and focus on
the things that are going toachieve those goals faster.
So, again, if you are a B2Bcompany and you're like I need
leads which is less importantthan brand awareness, right as
just an example then you'regoing to be really scrappy in
(15:40):
how you tackle something likeLinkedIn.
You can't just post.
You tackle something likeLinkedIn.
You can't just post and hopesomething comes through.
You have to be very proactivein okay, I'm going to actually
use LinkedIn Sales Navigator anddo an outreach strategy to
start making connections withpeople and start building my
network.
That's just one example.
If you're a local company andmaybe like a special offer for
(16:03):
new customers or whatever thatlooks like, it really goes back
(16:26):
to your goals and what is thebiggest priority for you right
now.
Everything else can fall to thewayside, because that's when, if
you try to do too much too fastwithout that proper foundation,
you're going to be spendingmoney on ads that are not going
to actually bring you thetraffic that you want, or you're
going to be spending money onads that are not going to
actually bring you the trafficthat you want, or you're going
to be falling into a strategythat, okay, it's a good strategy
(16:50):
.
It's not that it's bad or not,that it isn't completely helpful
, but it's not accomplishingwhat you want.
Now, and I think a lot of thetimes, people can get a little
tripped up in their goalsbecause they want everything.
Everyone wants more money,everyone wants more sales.
That's always the goal.
What is most critical to youright now?
Is it sales, or can you lenditself to more brand awareness,
(17:10):
brand trust, whatever that lookslike, and that's where you just
have to have thoseconversations and that clarity.
Eric Eden (17:16):
Yeah, so prioritization is the theme,
along with having a clear goalright.
Caroline Crawford (17:23):
Yeah, and focus, really just focus, focus
and structure.
Eric Eden (17:28):
So let me put you on the spot with my final question
, which is prediction for wherethings are going in marketing
the rest of this year.
Do you have any thoughts abouthow marketing is evolving and
what marketers should do as aresult of that trend?
Caroline Crawford (17:45):
Yeah, I think more and more tools are
going to pop up.
Ai-based tools are going to popup to help you do marketing
faster.
And I say that with quotesbecause again they're going to
hook you.
They're going to say I can makeyour life easier.
And it may not.
And especially if you'reworking on a scrappy budget, you
have to be really particularabout where you're investing
your time, money and energy,even if it's a platform.
(18:07):
I think AI is fantastic in thisexample and it's been talked
about in a lot of marketingspaces, but I think the
principles stay the same ofmarketing in that, at the end of
the day, you have to justfigure out how you connect with
your audience.
So keep focused on that, butwatch out, see what tools can
potentially help you and justuse discernment between them all
(18:30):
, because we'll see differencesin how AI is embedded into our
social media platforms.
I think that AI is going tosteal the show, I think, at
least for another year, beforesomething new kind of comes into
play.
Eric Eden (18:45):
Yeah, I think we're in the golden age of marketing,
where there's more tools than wecould ever possibly consume or
need, but finding some good onescan be really helpful.
Good advice, I think that, interms of people getting momentum
with their marketing, you had aoffer that you wanted to share.
Caroline Crawford (19:06):
Yes, definitely.
I would love to offer all thelisteners of the Remarkable
Marketing Podcast half off mymarketing momentum sessions.
This is a 75-minute intensivedesigned to pinpoint, overcome
whatever obstacles are blockingmarketing success.
So if you're in a positionwhere you need to do something
(19:27):
with marketing, your marketingneeds to pivot in some way, but
you just have no idea where tostart because, again, it can
feel very overwhelming andcomplex.
This is something that's goingto help you and provide that
clarity for you, and so we'llput.
I sure, post a code in the shownotes, but the code will be
remarkable and the link will bein there as well.
Eric Eden (19:46):
Awesome, if you want to get some momentum, check
that out.
Appreciate you being with ustoday and sharing your story and
these ideas.
We're going to link to theseresources in the show notes so
you can get there easily andcontact Caroline if you'd like
to learn more.
Caroline, thanks so much forbeing with us today.
We appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me, eric.
Welcome to today's episode.
Today we are talking aboutmarketing as an investment and
how to get the best ROI on yourmarketing, and we have a
fantastic guest today, CarolineCrawford.
Caroline Crawford (00:13):
Welcome to the show.
Hi Eric, Thank you so much forhaving me.
I'm excited to be here.
Eric Eden (00:19):
So why don't we start off by you sharing just a
minute or two about who you are,what you've done, what you're
doing?
Caroline Crawford (00:26):
Yeah, thanks for having me.
Yeah, so I've been in marketingcommunications for over 13
years now.
I started CultivateCommunications and we specialize
in developing and optimizingmarketing functions for
businesses by providing focusand structure around their brand
, sales and marketing and makingsure all of that's connected.
My specialty, my wheelhouse,the reason I love marketing, is
(00:48):
because of how it can all allthese different components
connect and really great at thevision of it all and then as
well as how do we bring it allto life and bringing that
brand's voice to life.
Eric Eden (01:01):
That is very important.
That is a challenge that manybusinesses face.
How do you bring it to life?
How do you get that momentum?
So we're ready to be inspired.
Why don't we start by yousharing a story about some of
the best marketing you've done,the marketing that you're the
most proud of?
Caroline Crawford (01:20):
Yeah, I think something that happens a
lot with businesses is that theytry to do too much when it
comes to marketing and it endsup diluting their message and
their branding and theirstrategy, like it's.
They think it's all connectedbecause they're spread out in
all these areas, but ultimatelyit's leading back to essentially
(01:42):
not providing a lot of greatresults for them, and then
they're starting to burn out,they're starting to get feel
hopeless.
So I did have a company thatwas in the wellness space, that
they were doing everythingacross the board Anything you
can think of posting videos onYouTube, on every social media
channel, publishing articles,doing the email newsletters, all
(02:02):
the things and they were likemy marketing is just not working
.
And they had invested inmarketing before and just were
doing all the recommendationsthat whatever, whoever they were
working with before me weredoing.
And so by the time they reachedme, they were really fed up.
I was essentially their lastdying hope, if you will.
I was essentially their lastdying hope, if you will.
(02:23):
And upon talking with them, Istarted asking questions what do
you like doing?
Where do you feel that you'reable to get more of your message
out?
Just trying to pinpoint,putting less attention on the
specifics of the channels thatthey were working with, at least
for right then in that momentand asking and trying to get to
(02:47):
understand them and their brand,and what I started to uncover
was that, because they're inwellness, the articles made a
lot of sense for them and theirapproach to their YouTube videos
weren't really aligning.
Just because of how they wereapproaching them it was very
forced, so therefore, anyonewatching it it was not a very
compelling video and things likethat.
(03:08):
Their Instagram.
They weren't putting thoughtinto how they can prolong the
effort that their articlesprovided them and really bring
it into something that fueledthese other channels.
I was actually talking to theCEO and I was asking her these
(03:30):
personal questions what do youlike to do personally?
Where do you like to spend yourtime in terms of these things
that you're creating?
And she even stopped me at onepoint saying I don't know, just
tell me what to do.
And I was like you are herebecause you followed everyone
else's advice without reallyunderstanding who your brand was
(03:50):
and what you like to do andwhat was authentic.
Double down on what it is thatactually aligns with your brand
and that allows you to bettercommunicate your messaging to
better educate the audience thatyou're with, and we're going to
(04:12):
cut out everything that doesn'talign.
So I actually we scaled herefforts, I think, by 50% at
least, so where she was nolonger burned out, her team was
no longer burned out and theyeverything had a purpose of her
articles started to fuel heremails, her we scaled back on
certain social media channels,the YouTube videos and the
(04:35):
strategy around that shifted tobe a supplement or amplifier of
the articles as, like that, corecontent driver and within a
month of scaling her effortsback 50% versus adding she
started seeing an increase inengagement in her emails,
engagement on her social mediaposts, leads coming in and I
(04:56):
think it just goes to show that,like, sometimes less is more in
all of this.
So that is one of my mostfavorite marketing stories in
all of this.
Eric Eden (05:05):
So that is one of my most favorite marketing stories
.
So the privilege of focus iswhat you're saying, because if
you try to do everything, you'rereally a master of nothing,
right?
Caroline Crawford (05:18):
Yeah, in some ways yeah.
Eric Eden (05:21):
And it seems counterintuitive too.
Yeah the temptation is to getout there and do everything,
because people have differentexperiences and will give advice
say the email marketing hasbeen great for me, or Google
advertising has been great forme, or blogging has been great
for me.
And the reality is that fordifferent businesses, certain
channels or certain tactics canbe their number one biggest
driver.
But that doesn't necessarilyapply that it should be the case
(05:44):
for all businesses.
And the thing that I've seen isthat if people look across all
the things they're doing, likeyou were saying, everything may
directionally work, like you maywin business across a lot of
channels, but when you look atthe ROI or marketing as an
investment, what you start tosee is you start to see the ROI
(06:06):
in certain channels or certaintactics is much higher than
others.
The idea to focus on the oneswhere it's really working.
Some of the ways I talk topeople about this is tell me
what's actually working the best.
What are the one or two thingsyou're doing that is working the
best?
It's a different flavor of whatyou asked of what do you like
(06:27):
doing, because if you don't likedoing it, then it's probably
not going to be the best channel.
Caroline Crawford (06:31):
Yeah, for sure, and I think people look
see ROI as like almost it's veryquantitative, understandably.
But for in the case of justthese articles, you invest more
time, money and energy intocreating these articles.
You invest more time, money andenergy into creating these
articles.
That articles then makes itquicker and less, probably costs
less and probably moreeffective to fuel all these
(06:54):
other channels, because you canthen repurpose that article into
an email, repurpose that intosocial media posts and it can
just fuel all these differentplaces and be very cohesive.
And so the ROI could look verydifferent than what I think some
business leaders have in mind.
Eric Eden (07:11):
Yeah, I think that it's interesting how marketing
is evolving and that thechannels and the tactics that
people use today, the ROI theycan get from those things, is
also evolving.
For example, advertising isgetting a lot more expensive on
Google, on LinkedIn, and sothat's something people need to
(07:34):
think about is does it stillmake as much sense as it did
even a couple of years ago?
Other channels like emailmarketing.
It used to be that you couldsend emails to people even if
they hadn't opted in, and youwould still get a pretty good
result, but now things haveevolved, that's not really a
viable tactic anymore by thenumbers, and so I think people
(07:57):
have to really think about whatmakes sense is how things are
evolving in marketing as well.
Caroline Crawford (08:02):
I think yes, in the sense that the way that
marketing is evolving, it's somuch more competitive.
You are competing for less timein the consumer's eyes for
attention, and there's so muchout there.
Consumers are being bombarded,and that's why a lot of the ad
platforms, like LinkedIn or allthe social media platforms, do
(08:22):
bidding structures, because theyknow it's competitive.
However, I also think that it'sin the case of I think,
understanding how certainchannels work or how certain
marketing efforts will work, isreally important to make it, to
understand what's going to beour next move here.
So, for instance and the reasonbeing is because you may not be
(08:45):
ready for advertising is still agreat, can be still a very good
use of marketing budget if it'sdone well, but if you don't
have the foundation that allowsthose leads to come in and
actually streamline that process, then advertising it's just
like you're just catching a netand you have no idea where the
(09:06):
fish are.
It's just you have nowhere tocatch them.
And so I think there's abalance in keeping up with the
evolution of what's happeningwith marketing, but also a deep
understanding of what each ofthese channels and options will
actually bring you against yourgoals.
And then also.
Are you ready for that?
(09:27):
What are you?
What kind of foundation do youhave in place to be able to
better support these effortsthat you're investing in?
Eric Eden (09:36):
I think the foundation is really important.
The example you said aroundadvertising if you don't have
the foundation of a greatwebsite and great landing pages
and the right workflows forpeople to become a customer from
the website, all of thosefoundational things need to be
there before you're ready tostart spending and investing a
(09:56):
lot of money in advertising 100%.
Caroline Crawford (09:58):
I think a lot of the times when you're
seeing no ROI, it could be astrategy problem, but the
strategy can be adjusted easilya lot of the times.
But if you are getting somethings but they're not turning
into sales, that is a foundationproblem, that is a kink in your
(10:20):
sales process.
Eric Eden (10:22):
And part of the problem you mentioned is
marketing is pretty hard.
It's probably getting harder interms of complexity and
competition and costs, and itseems like that's one of the
main challenges for businessesis there's so many different
areas of marketing and some ofthem have gotten harder and more
(10:44):
complex in recent years.
For example, I'll give anotherchannel that I think is evolving
pretty rapidly is SEO.
Some people are saying it'sArmageddon for SEO because of
how Google is changing, with AI,summaries and videos at the top
, and it's much harder to getnear the top of the search
results in Google and for a longtime a lot of businesses who
(11:05):
were doing blogs or articlesrelied on that, and the impact
for companies seems to vary, soit's not like across the board
tough for everybody, but forsome people it is and other
people it's actually a benefit.
So I think the question is howdo companies navigate the
complexity as all of thesechannels evolve?
(11:26):
What do you suggest when you'reworking with clients to
navigate that?
Caroline Crawford (11:31):
I think you have to have a core
understanding and goal in mindto what are we really trying to
accomplish and what's ourbiggest priority, because there
is a difference in the types ofmarketing that you do, where
certain channels will lenditself better and therefore the
results are going to bedifferent.
But if your goal is gettingleads, but you're posting on
(11:54):
Instagram and not doing so in away that's designed to convert
or try to capture leads andconvert leads, but you're
posting on Instagram and notdoing so in a way that's
designed to convert or try tocapture leads and convert leads,
then you're going to say we'regetting followers.
So, technically, what you'redoing on social is successful in
the standards of social media,but it's not converting to these
larger business goals.
So I think you have to balancethose priorities.
But I think, when it comes tothe complexities and SEO is a
(12:16):
great example I keep going backto this, like understanding what
you're about to get yourselfinto.
The reason being is becausesomething like SEO, where the
Google changes every other day,like you need someone dedicated
to SEO who's really well versedin understanding how frequent it
changes and how to becompetitive and always being
(12:39):
proactive, and that's just oneexample right, and so that is a
long gain.
If you're going to invest in SEO, yes, you could set up some
good foundation that's going tohelp and support you.
But if you're trying to bereally aggressive, especially if
you're like a local business,then you have to be willing to
invest in SEO over and overagain, whereas if you're trying
to be really aggressive,especially if you're like a
local business, then you have tobe willing to invest in SEO
over and over again, whereas ifyou're a service-based business
(13:01):
you operate online you can maybedo again like a one-time
investment in, like a strongkeyword strategy, and then maybe
optimize.
It's not as aggressive, butmaybe you need to be more
aggressive in how you approachLinkedIn, for instance.
So I think it varies based onwhat type of company you have,
what your goals are and, again,a deep understanding of what
(13:23):
each of these channels ormarketing portals will do for
you, because it's going to vary.
And then again, just going backto my example, where it sounds
very complex and it sounds verycomplicated because there are so
many pieces, but the more youcan focus on, okay, this is our
(13:43):
initiative, let's say, in thecase of the example I provided
earlier, articles are initiative.
That's where we're going tospend a good chunk of time and
investment to make sure we'reputting out kick-ass articles.
We're also then going to usethose articles to fuel other
things, because that one articlethat you spend and this is
where potentially SEO and a blogwriter can come into play and
(14:06):
you can stretch out thatinvestment that article can fuel
10 social media posts and threeemails, and so, therefore,
you've got almost an entiremonth of content just from one
article.
That's fueling, and so that'show you can simplify it in terms
of okay, we are on all thesechannels, but there is still
(14:26):
that sort of through linebecause we're repurposing some
things.
Eric Eden (14:30):
Yeah, I think that's a great example.
One of the things you talkabout is how to do marketing
when you have limited resources,and I think that's a great
example.
One of the things you talkabout is how to do marketing
when you have limited resources,and I think that example plays
into that, because to build afull stack marketing team they
can do volumes of things acrossall of the possible channels can
cost like a couple milliondollars for a B2B company, for
(14:52):
example.
Most people don't have thatamount of money to invest, and
so that example you just sharedis a great one of how do
companies do more when theydon't really have as much to
invest.
But broadly, what do yousuggest when companies don't
have a huge budget or have to bemore guerrilla in marketing?
(15:18):
How do they think about it?
Caroline Crawford (15:20):
Get really clear on your goals and focus on
the things that are going toachieve those goals faster.
So, again, if you are a B2Bcompany and you're like I need
leads which is less importantthan brand awareness, right as
just an example then you'regoing to be really scrappy in
(15:40):
how you tackle something likeLinkedIn.
You can't just post.
You tackle something likeLinkedIn.
You can't just post and hopesomething comes through.
You have to be very proactivein okay, I'm going to actually
use LinkedIn Sales Navigator anddo an outreach strategy to
start making connections withpeople and start building my
network.
That's just one example.
If you're a local company andmaybe like a special offer for
(16:03):
new customers or whatever thatlooks like, it really goes back
(16:26):
to your goals and what is thebiggest priority for you right
now.
Everything else can fall to thewayside, because that's when, if
you try to do too much too fastwithout that proper foundation,
you're going to be spendingmoney on ads that are not going
to actually bring you thetraffic that you want, or you're
going to be spending money onads that are not going to
actually bring you the trafficthat you want, or you're going
to be falling into a strategythat, okay, it's a good strategy
(16:50):
.
It's not that it's bad or not,that it isn't completely helpful
, but it's not accomplishingwhat you want.
Now, and I think a lot of thetimes, people can get a little
tripped up in their goalsbecause they want everything.
Everyone wants more money,everyone wants more sales.
That's always the goal.
What is most critical to youright now?
Is it sales, or can you lenditself to more brand awareness,
(17:10):
brand trust, whatever that lookslike, and that's where you just
have to have thoseconversations and that clarity.
Eric Eden (17:16):
Yeah, so prioritization is the theme,
along with having a clear goalright.
Caroline Crawford (17:23):
Yeah, and focus, really just focus, focus
and structure.
Eric Eden (17:28):
So let me put you on the spot with my final question
, which is prediction for wherethings are going in marketing
the rest of this year.
Do you have any thoughts abouthow marketing is evolving and
what marketers should do as aresult of that trend?
Caroline Crawford (17:45):
Yeah, I think more and more tools are
going to pop up.
Ai-based tools are going to popup to help you do marketing
faster.
And I say that with quotesbecause again they're going to
hook you.
They're going to say I can makeyour life easier.
And it may not.
And especially if you'reworking on a scrappy budget, you
have to be really particularabout where you're investing
your time, money and energy,even if it's a platform.
(18:07):
I think AI is fantastic in thisexample and it's been talked
about in a lot of marketingspaces, but I think the
principles stay the same ofmarketing in that, at the end of
the day, you have to justfigure out how you connect with
your audience.
So keep focused on that, butwatch out, see what tools can
potentially help you and justuse discernment between them all
(18:30):
, because we'll see differencesin how AI is embedded into our
social media platforms.
I think that AI is going tosteal the show, I think, at
least for another year, beforesomething new kind of comes into
play.
Eric Eden (18:45):
Yeah, I think we're in the golden age of marketing,
where there's more tools than wecould ever possibly consume or
need, but finding some good onescan be really helpful.
Good advice, I think that, interms of people getting momentum
with their marketing, you had aoffer that you wanted to share.
Caroline Crawford (19:06):
Yes, definitely.
I would love to offer all thelisteners of the Remarkable
Marketing Podcast half off mymarketing momentum sessions.
This is a 75-minute intensivedesigned to pinpoint, overcome
whatever obstacles are blockingmarketing success.
So if you're in a positionwhere you need to do something
(19:27):
with marketing, your marketingneeds to pivot in some way, but
you just have no idea where tostart because, again, it can
feel very overwhelming andcomplex.
This is something that's goingto help you and provide that
clarity for you, and so we'llput.
I sure, post a code in the shownotes, but the code will be
remarkable and the link will bein there as well.
Eric Eden (19:46):
Awesome, if you want to get some momentum, check
that out.
Appreciate you being with ustoday and sharing your story and
these ideas.
We're going to link to theseresources in the show notes so
you can get there easily andcontact Caroline if you'd like
to learn more.
Caroline, thanks so much forbeing with us today.
We appreciate it.
Thank you so much for having me, eric.
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