July 24, 2024 • 46 mins
Join us for an engaging new episode of Remotely One, where hosts Rick Haney and Kaleem Clarkson welcome Ben Kvalo, a seasoned professional in the gaming and entertainment industries, and the Founder of Midwest Games! His impressive journey from Portage, Wisconsin, to his current residence split between Los Angeles and Green Bay is not only outstanding but also fascinating. Ben's career trajectory is remarkable, with roots in sports management influenced by his family's football legacy. His entrepreneurial spirit emerged early, starting a radio station in college, which led to a brief stint in professional radio before making a significant transition to the gaming industry.
Ben chats about his pivotal career move to 2K, where he contributed to the success of major franchises like Borderlands, BioShock, Civilization, Xcom, Mafia, and NBA2K. His role at 2K provided him with comprehensive insights into the gaming business, igniting his passion for supporting creatives with his operational expertise. Ben shares his initial culture shock when moving from Wisconsin to San Francisco, contrasting the lifestyle differences and the booming tech innovation of the 2010s.
Interestingly, Ben transitioned from games to the film industry with Netflix, before circling back to the gaming world. The differences between the gaming and film industries are significant, with Netflix's revolutionary approach to technology and streaming standing out. Ben discusses the global accessibility of Netflix, which democratized content consumption and catered to diverse viewing habits.
What took Ben to the next stage of his career? His decision to start his own company, Midwest Games, stemmed from his passion for remote work. This ignites a desire among individuals seeking flexibility and a better work-life balance. Midwest Games embraces remote work, fostering a culture that supports underrepresented developers and prioritizes innovation and creativity, letting people control their own destinies.
Not only are Ben’s ideas technologically revolutionary, but they are also groundbreaking in another way: his decision to focus on underserved populations in his hiring practices. Ben explains that the traditional concentration of the video game industry in expensive cities like LA, San Francisco, Seattle, and Austin excludes many talented individuals from other regions. A study shows that two-thirds of the U.S. video game industry is concentrated in these areas, despite the high cost of living and the lack of necessity for physical presence in the digital age.
His journey from Netflix to founding Midwest Games underscores the transformative potential of remote work and the importance of creating flexible, inclusive work environments. By challenging the traditional geographic concentration of the video game industry, Ben is not only building a successful company but also contributing to a more equitable and diverse industry landscape. Join us for this insightful and inspiring episode to hear more about Ben's remarkable journey and his vision for the future of remote work in the gaming industry. Thank you for the amazing chat, Ben!
Learn more from Ben:
- Ben’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/benkvalo/
- Midwest Games: https://www.midwestgames.com/
More about us:
- Remotely One’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/remotelyone
- Remotely One’s Webpage: https://www.remotelyone.com/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Ben (00:00):
I used to play professional ski ball.
(00:02):
Wisconski is my skee ball name.
Rick (00:05):
That's pretty
Kaleem (00:06):
better.
He goes by Wisconski.
Ben (00:09):
my, wife plays in the social league and, uh, her ski
ball name is Ski Rex.
Kaleem (00:14):
What?
Hang on this.
Rick (00:16):
I love this so much.
This is great.
Ben (00:18):
And,
Kaleem (00:19):
better and better.
We should just have a podcastabout the ski boss ski racks in
Wisconsin.
You kidding me?
Ben (00:25):
Oh yeah, we rolled against the Back Ski Boys, you know,
and, uh,
Kaleem (00:31):
just
Rick (00:31):
Oh my god.
Ben (00:33):
And then, uh, yeah.
I've been the interim Ski EO ofLA Ski Ball for, for a while.
There you go.
Rick (00:41):
These puns are incredible, by the way.
Kaleem (00:42):
Bro, why am I laughing so hard at this shit?
It's hilarious.
You TikTok channel, bro, of justski puns.
You could go on forever.
Ben (00:51):
Oh, no, there's, there's so many.
It's, uh, yeah.
it's on, it's unscalable.
Kaleem (01:00):
god.
Oh
Rick (01:03):
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
Welcome back, everybody, toRemotely One.
I am your co host, Rick Haney,joined by my ever esteemed
colleague, Kaleem Clarkson.
What's going down, my
Kaleem (01:20):
I see you, baby, back from Vegas.
I see you.
How you doing, man?
How you doing?
Rick (01:26):
Refreshed.
Kaleem (01:27):
Ah, you look great, man.
Those baby blues are alwaysshining.
Rick (01:31):
Oh.
Oh.
Kaleem (01:35):
Voice sounding silky smooth.
I love it when your voice just,you know, it's all smooth in
that
Rick (01:40):
not enough O's in smooth.
Not enough O's in smooth.
Hey.
Listeners and viewers, since youknow how to find us, go do us a
favor and go to ratethispodcast.
com forward slash remotely one,and just leave us a review.
Again, ratethispodcast.
com forward slash remotely one.
(02:00):
And if you could do that for us,we would be ever so thankful.
Since 2015 remotely one is oneof the largest communities of
remote work professionals withover 3000.
Slack members and 5, 000 emailsubscribers.
It's free to join free F R E Efree.
So go check it out remotely one.
(02:22):
com.
And with that out of the way,Kaleem, please give us a tease
or two about today's guest.
Kaleem (02:28):
Huh?
Brother, brother.
Oh yeah.
Like you're
Rick (02:31):
Oh, yeah, brother.
Kaleem (02:32):
Really?
Much.
Savage.
Our guest today has gotten mesweating through so many damn
shirts.
I had to put on, you know, thebear shirt for our guest today.
I sweat through like two orthree on the shirt because he
got me nervous and you're goingto find out when we get through
some of these cracks.
Oh man.
I guess.
Whew.
Let me calm down for a second.
Let me calm down.
(02:53):
Okay.
I'm calm.
I'm calm.
I'm calm.
All right.
Um, first something about ourguest.
They are originally fromPortage, Wisconsin.
Okay.
Rick (03:02):
Hmm.
Ooh, yeah.
Kaleem (03:04):
currently reside between LA and Green Bay.
Yeah.
Our guest today, they have to goto LA for a lot of shits.
So then they, you know, it'sprobably cheaper to have a place
in two places.
You know what I mean?
Rick (03:15):
It's a real snickerdoodle.
Sometimes I got to get, uh, oneplace and I'm in the other.
Hmm.
Kaleem (03:21):
What in the?
What in the?
Who's that?
Who's that, Rick?
Was that our fourth guest?
Rick (03:25):
I guess.
Kaleem (03:26):
All right, let's see.
Uh, graduate of Wisconsin.
So they are the Badgers.
Go Badgers.
Did I get that right, guest?
Ben (03:33):
no, Wisconsin, Green Bay, Phoenix.
Kaleem (03:40):
so the Phoenixes.
They're the Phoenixes.
Ben (03:42):
Yeah, rise from the ashes.
Rick (03:46):
Yes.
Kaleem (03:48):
do the bird call.
Uh, you know, Rick,unfortunately, our guest is also
a diehard Packers fan.
You know what I
Rick (03:55):
Well, depends on which way you look at it.
That might not be unfortunatefor
Kaleem (03:58):
Man, it's probably fortunate for him because
they've been dominating myfavorite Bears team.
So I put on my shirt, especiallyfor our guest today.
But interestingly enough, thePackers somehow invested in his
company.
So that's really interesting.
Rick (04:10):
That's special.
Kaleem (04:11):
Yes, Rick, our guests started back in the day while
they are a student, kind ofsimilar to some shit that you
were doing back in the day,student radio.
So we got to talk aboutbroadcast.
Remember that?
Remember broadcasting?
Rick (04:24):
do.
Great memories.
Great memories.
Yeah.
Kaleem (04:28):
Um, then, you know, they started working at this small
little company.
If you haven't played, I don'tknow, NBA 2.
Uh, started working at 2K andwas a senior global project
manager.
No big deal.
Just a small, tiny littlecompany.
Just a small one, Rick.
Yeah, then just another smallcompany, Rick.
(04:51):
Blizzard Entertainment.
You may have heard of
Rick (04:54):
Oh?
Kaleem (04:55):
a little thing may have, may have not, but it was in the
e sports ship, man.
E sports crazy, crazy.
Our guest is partner goes byWisconsin ski and they play it
against.
Is it, is it scree X
Rick (05:13):
Ski racks.
Kaleem (05:14):
Ski racks.
Wait, no, I get this mixed up.
You go by Wisconski and yourpartner goes by ski racks,
right?
Ben (05:20):
Oh, yeah.
Kaleem (05:21):
Okay, cool.
And they rolled against a teamcalled, the basket boys.
Yep.
Ben (05:27):
Yep.
The backseat boys.
Yeah.
Rick (05:29):
These are amazing.
Kaleem (05:31):
so he's a professional skee ball player and has played
in the world championships,crazy, crazy.
Um, oh, he was the leadprogrammer at another company.
That's kind of tiny.
Netflix, right?
Rick (05:44):
Never heard of them.
Kaleem (05:45):
Okay, so they send these dvds and movies they send these
dvds and they send them to youin the mail, bro That's what
this company does.
Rick (05:55):
trust them either.
Ha! Ha!
Kaleem (05:58):
So we got to talk to him about being a lead program
manager of games at Netflix.
His company, they won mobilegame publisher of the year in
2022, I guess is the founder andCEO of Midwest games, which also
supports underrepresenteddevelopers, listeners, and
viewers.
You got to give a warm welcometo.
(06:22):
Oh, that's what we do.
And this is
Rick (06:38):
from the block.
Kaleem (06:39):
best part of the show because it makes him laugh.
Ben, thank you so much forcoming, man.
Thank you so much
Rick (06:46):
Did you do that on purpose?
Ben (06:47):
It's
Kaleem (06:47):
I did.
Ben (06:48):
here.
Rick (06:51):
Your life is never gonna be the same, Ben Qualo.
Ben (06:53):
no, it's right.
I've been called worse.
Kaleem (06:57):
It has been qualo.
It's qualo.
Rick (07:03):
Oh man, we're having fun already.
Ben, thank you so much forjoining us.
It's a pleasure to have youhere.
We're glad you could join us.
Ben (07:09):
Yeah, it's a blast to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Rick (07:11):
Yeah man, so, just getting right into it.
You've had some really coolexperiences, you know, ranging
from radio broadcasting to bigroles in the film industry.
With all of that on your resume,what landed you in the gaming
industry?
Ben (07:27):
Yeah, it was random.
I originally went to school togo into sports management,
wanted to work for the Packers,wanted to work in NFL, wanted
to, you know, wanted to manage,manage a team, scouts, you know,
everything that goes into kindof the football operations.
And, and I come from a lot offootball in my blood.
(07:52):
My great grandfather, Is in theHall of Fame at UW Madison, the
Badgers, and then he also wasthe first American inducted into
the CFL Hall of Fame, theCanadian Football League Hall of
Fame.
So I come from a footballlineage and so I thought that's
what I'm going to do.
And then I, you know, went tocollege, went to UW Green Bay to
(08:13):
be close by the Packers.
I thought that's going to giveme that advantage.
It didn't.
And then it did not.
And then I ended up finding apath in entertainment, which,
you know, adjacent in a lot ofways to what sports essentially
is, if you think about it.
And what I was able to do wasstart up a radio station in
college.
(08:34):
We were the only UW schoolwithout a radio station.
Did that for a while, built thatfrom the ground up.
And that ended up being my firstlike entrepreneurial type moment
in my And I didn't even realizeit at the moment.
I was just trying to find thatthing that I wanted to be doing.
And we went from being in abroom closet to the student
union, to one of the largeststudent orgs on campus.
(08:57):
And it was a really greatexperience.
And then I went into radio aftercollege and it was horrible.
Rick (09:03):
Yep.
Hehe.
Ben (09:06):
And so I got out of that very quickly and was very
fortunate to land with 2K invideo games.
You know, basically I was livingin Sturgeon Bay, which is just
north of Green Bay, in DoorCounty.
And from there, 2K reached out.
They were like, can you move toSan Francisco in two weeks and
(09:29):
start at 2K in this operationsrole?
And I said, yes, and droveacross the country.
Started two weeks later and thenwas able to work on the
beginnings of incrediblefranchises at an incredible
company That was really small atthe time 2k was a pretty small
publisher when I joined and thenwe Started to grow Borderlands
(09:54):
and Bioshock, Civilization,Xcom, Mafia, and then NBA2K took
off and became the highest ratedsports game in the world.
And it was just an incrediblemoment to be part of that
company.
And that helped accelerate mycareer into so many other areas
of games and then film and thenback to games and being able to
(10:17):
kind of get the vision.
Cause there's only operationsperson.
At 2k besides our executivegroup.
So I was able to work in everysingle different department
within a publishing group.
So it gave me a lot of exposureand awareness on the many
different areas and how complexthis business is, but how
incredible it can be.
And that really fed what I loveabout it, which is supporting
(10:40):
creatives.
Cause I'm like a half creative,like I'm creative enough, but I
realized there's There's farmore creative people than
myself.
And so how do I take myoperational knowledge and
business knowledge and combinethat with creativity to support
creators?
And that's essentially where mycareer was built off of.
Kaleem (10:59):
unbelievable.
So I'm just kind of going back.
It kind of sounds like thefamous story of I'm moving to
the big city mom and dad.
I'm going to be someone
Ben (11:10):
Yep.
Kaleem (11:10):
so you move from Wisconsin.
to San Francisco and I'massuming at this point, I mean,
like San Francisco is booming,you know, post dot com era.
Now it's coming back.
Now you're in the middle of allof these, you know, technology
enthusiasts right there.
What was kind of like your firstexperience in Silicon Valley?
(11:34):
does anything come to mind whenyou're like, whoa, like, yeah,
ish is different here than GreenBay.
Anything that kind of sticks toyour mind?
Ben (11:42):
Maybe the room size of what I could afford at the time.
in San Francisco compared toGreen Bay.
Like I had an apartment.
I think I was paid in radio, myfinal job in radio.
I think I was paid like 24, 000a year.
It's really bad.
And I was like, shoot, I'm goingto double my salary to come out
to San Francisco.
And then I got a place that wasmaybe like one eighth the size
(12:05):
of what I had in Wisconsin.
And so I think that the size,but.
But outside of that, it was justall the things happening, you
know, San Francisco in like kindof the 2010s.
Was so much tech innovationhappening in so many different
areas, you know, it was thebeginning of dating apps and and
(12:28):
and all everything there.
And that's where they testedeverything.
There was, I remember there wasa dating app for called Bristler
that was for guys with beards,uh, and like, that's how
specific that's how specificsome things got.
And it's, it was fascinating tobe that, be there with so many
other people trying to come upwith new ideas, new innovation,
(12:51):
and you just hadn't, or I hadn'tbeen part of an environment that
just encouraged so much.
So many ideas to come forwardand to really be thought about
and potentially funded andthings.
And so to be there and then bein the game space, the early
days, you know, the game space,it was so exciting.
(13:12):
I remember the moment welaunched borderlands two, which
ended up being such a huge, hugesuccess in the games industry.
And then being able to work onall of these different types of
games, some succeed in big ways,some failed, but ultimately
being in this really creativeenvironment, innovative
environment.
You know, it doesn't matter whatyou wear to work, like, you
(13:35):
know, especially compared tocompared to the Midwest, which
is like very, you know, suittie, uh, especially during that
period.
It's definitely changed.
Um, you know, the influenceschange, but ultimately it was
just.
It's such a differentenvironment.
It opened my eyes so much andthen being able to travel a lot
via my job.
I spent a lot of time livingabroad in some ways, like in
(13:57):
temp apartments like London andParis and Madrid, Munich,
Amsterdam, Singapore, and so itgave me a lot of exposure and
awareness to this outside worldthat just, you know, Has really
helped me in my career.
I think probably my biggestsuperpower now is just
perspective.
Like I've been in so manydifferent areas that it really
helps me understand where peopleare coming from, or at least be
(14:21):
aware that I don't know certainthings that I need to lean in
and learn in certain areas.
Rick (14:27):
Holy cow.
Um, You're talking about, youknow, getting your feet wet, and
then, making a lot of jumps.
I mean, you learned a lot in aconsiderable, well, pretty much
a small window as far as I'mconcerned.
I mean, you did this relativelyquickly.
So, you start in radio and thenyou, get into the film business
(14:48):
and then you kind of morph intothe, to the gaming industry.
Tell me a little bit about whatthe transition was like between,
the film industry, and thengetting into something where
you're like, totally creative.
You're an, you're immersed inthis new, flexible kind of
freedom that everybody islooking for.
And you're doing something thatyou're really passionate about.
(15:09):
Talk to me about what thatfeeling was like and how it kind
of led to where you are now.
Ben (15:15):
Yeah, it was actually the opposite.
I went from radio to games, toesports, to film, to games, to
games, essentially.
So, no,
Kaleem (15:30):
good
Ben (15:30):
because,
Kaleem (15:31):
job, Rick.
Ben (15:32):
because your, your point, your thesis of the question,
Makes sense.
Like it's the, these transitionpoints between many different
areas.
And, and it's interesting causeeven like going from games like
triple a games with two K to esports at blizzard.
That was a big transition.
(15:52):
It's two completely differentthings.
And I was fortunate to be in esports at kind of the height of
e sports before it's kind ofcrashed, and come back down to
reality, compared to what wasbeing spent at that era, but I
learned a lot and thentransitioning from e sports into
film, it was a challenge,because the film's Studio
(16:15):
industry is very different thanthe games industry.
And what was interesting, and Iwas again, fortunate that I was
at Netflix, which embraced thetechnology end of entertainment
within films and TV, whichwasn't as embraced at least not
until lately by this traditionalstudio industry, you know, they
(16:37):
looked at it a lot, like it waskind of a joke or it was like.
Like sub quality film, subquality TV, if it was on
streaming and it was fascinatingto come into that realm and see
the change from when I came inat the very beginning of Netflix
film.
I was the first hire on themarketing operations team to
(16:59):
help build out some of theinfrastructure for Netflix film
to three years later.
We were suddenly, you know,theaters were dying because of
the influence that Netflix filmshad to change people's
perspectives and thoughts andperception of the film industry
and the fact that actually youcan enjoy a great film anywhere.
(17:23):
Some people enjoy it on theirphone.
Some people enjoy it in atheater.
And you can't tell somebody thatthey're right or wrong about
that.
If that's how they enjoy it, orthat's how they have to enjoy
it.
If you'd go to many othercountries around the world,
that's all they have.
Their movie theater is theirphone.
Like they only can ever enjoycontent via their phone.
(17:46):
And so being able to make thingsaccessible to the wider global
community, that's the really thegreatest thing that Netflix has
done is it didn't just discountpeople because they didn't have
a TV or they didn't have, youknow, a theater nearby.
A lot of people don't actuallyhave that.
And if we can bring it to theirphone where they do have that,
(18:07):
They enjoy content anddelivering content like that.
And so was a really interestinglesson again, in perspective of
like, what is actually the mostimportant and how can you change
an industry like that?
But games and films are sodifferent.
Yet today, what we're seeing isthe convergence.
Between all of that, we'reseeing more games be turned into
(18:29):
films.
We're seeing the interest fromthe films and TV industry into
so much content, for example,Blumhouse just had their biggest
film success ever.
Which is amazing cause they'vebeen, you know, doing this for a
while and really successful inthe horror genre yet five night
at Freddy's, which is a smallindie game.
(18:52):
Blew up, and the biggest, theirbiggest film release ever.
And so I think we're going tosee a lot more of success in
kind of the, this combination ofgames and film and they realize
games is so valuable becausegames can be so valuable.
Is actually seven times biggerthan the film industry.
(19:12):
Games is, is bigger than films,TV, and music combined times
about two.
So games is the biggestentertainment industry by far.
It's not even close.
There's 3.
8 billion gamers.
It's an industry that's nearing,I think 350 billion and, per
year.
Like it, it is an extremelyvaluable industry that's, that
(19:36):
has.
Made everyone else look prettysmall.
And so that's why a lot of filmsand TV are trying to attach onto
it.
And they're finding it ininteresting places.
You know, one of the moststreamed shows on Netflix is
cuphead, which is a small indiegame.
That is kind of in the vein oflike old school Mickey Mouse and
like kind of that art style ofanimation and that has been one
(20:00):
of the most streamed shows onNetflix and there's a lot more
of that.
And we're also seeing anime comeinto play a lot as well.
Anime is just huge worldwide andgrowing and that kind of has a
strong connection to games aswell.
Kaleem (20:16):
Jeez, who would have thought back in the ColecoVision
days of playing BurgerTime?
That we'd be at a point nowwhere you have professional
sport leagues.
You have movies within videogames, you know, like just
playing like Call of Duty fromback in the day of just, you
know, seeing those little videoclips.
Now, they're like HD filmsalmost like like it's just
(20:38):
fascinating to hear there.
So now you've you know, you workat all these unbelievable
companies and you've tastedthese things.
Yeah, Netflix.
Now, now you just say, hey, I'mgoing to do my own thing.
Like that's that's a big jump initself.
So how we met, listeners andviewers, audience, through
(20:59):
online LinkedIn.
You made a really powerfulcomment anytime.
I or somebody tagged you in thecomment.
I was talking on some articleabout remote work and culture.
How to create a setting in aspace.
That's where, you know, Rick andI talk a lot about.
So it's really cool to just havean insight to an industry that a
(21:20):
lot of people aren't really upto date on, you know, what is it
about remote work that you thinkmakes people so passionate, you
know, especially individuals andHow have you kind of adopted
some of these things with yourcompany?
So I kind of like to hear aboutyour leadership style and what
it is that Midwest games doesand what your thoughts are
(21:42):
around remote work culture.
We'll be right back after thesewords.
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Alright, well that's a bit much,but for you, I'll do it.
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(23:51):
And now, back to the show.
Ben (23:53):
Yeah, I mean, it really started with my time at Netflix.
Netflix A has just an incredibleculture.
They believe in it verystrongly.
They put it out online.
You can look up the culture deckand it's really powerful
statements.
And I embraced that in a majorway when I was there and learned
so much from it.
(24:14):
And during my time there, webecame remote because obviously,
COVID and everything like that.
And so we had to adapt quickly.
And luckily, our cultureembraced the freedom.
Like, a big piece is freedom andresponsibility.
We always had the option to workremote.
Whenever we wanted, if we feltlike that was the right option
(24:37):
for us it was part of ourfreedom and responsibility.
So when we suddenly transitionedto a full remote scenario, we
adapted pretty quickly.
You know, you adjust some thingsand meetings, like how to
design, making sure everyone hasa voice.
It's, you know, it definitelychanges your approach.
But I took so many lessons fromthat moment.
And then as I, you know, I wasin film at that moment and then
(25:01):
joined the Games Org to helplead the launch of Netflix games
I was like, hey, I keep buildingall these things for other
people like Why don't I go buildsomething for myself and see
what happens like see if I cando this and a big piece of it
being Well, how do we supportunderserved, underrepresented
(25:23):
folks.
And ultimately givingflexibility and freedom to for
folks to choose what's right forthem.
It was a big tenant of whatMidwest Games is all about.
And so we went into it likethat.
And what we found was,
Kaleem (25:39):
Why Ben?
I'm just curious.
Yeah, because you could havejust created a company any way
you wanted.
But why why why?
Ben (25:49):
it A, didn't, Didn't feel right like I'm a believer in you
know Letting people be incontrol of their own destiny and
they decide what it is now Wehave an office that people want
to come to it.
They can come to it, but dowhat's right for them and that
They will ultimately do so muchmore work wise.
(26:13):
They will feel comfortable intheir environment.
They will feel like they havethe flexibility to, to live the
life they want to live.
And that just, I think,encourages a more productive
workforce.
Anyways, and we're in anindustry where it works really
well.
I get that Not every industry isremote friendly.
You know, that's a thing aagain, a perspective thing.
(26:33):
We have to always understand.
You know, it's somebody that isin the service industry, doesn't
have that choice or that luxuryand, but we do in games.
And so why don't we takeadvantage of that?
And allow for the flexibility ofit.
I just think it gives somebodyso much more, that they can live
(26:54):
for and they can still do theproductive work and they can
live the way that they want.
And what was great by coming outlike that and saying, Hey, we
want to give theseopportunities, but we're also
still flexible.
It allowed us to find incredibletalent.
For example, we've been able tofind people that are from the
Midwest, but, you know, our headof production lives in Seattle,
(27:15):
but he's from Michigan.
Kaleem (27:17):
Hmm.
Ben (27:17):
And it allows us to bring somebody into Midwest Games that
has that strong connection,understands the challenge of
having to move to the West Coastbecause there was an opportunity
in the Midwest, and be reallypassionate about it, but still
live in Seattle.
And, you know, if he ever wantsto move back to the Midwest, he
now has that path.
And some people, I think overtime will take that path and
(27:40):
some won't, and that's okay.
He still, Incredibly valuable toeverything that we're doing.
And there's no reduction in kindof work.
If anything, it's, it's kind ofnice that we have somebody
that's in a different, like aslightly different time zone
because it helps kind of staggerour work just a little bit.
Rick (28:00):
Cool.
Cool.
You know, I, I lived in LA, longbefore the pandemic.
I was part of that culture outthere for a time.
And I can't imagine what it waslike being in, in such a hub of
activity during a lockdown.
In fact, I was there at nine 11,but that was totally different.
The pandemic lastedsignificantly longer.
(28:21):
So in your experience seeing LA,you know, during the pandemic,
you know, how has that communityembraced a remote company these
days?
I mean, how did, how has itchanged things?
Kaleem (28:35):
Yeah,
Ben (28:36):
mean, everyone's remote.
I was in downtown LA when all ofthis happened, I was on 7th and
flower.
And so like, It went from beingsuch a busy, like I had a fairly
small loft cause you don't needmuch cause I was out and about
almost every single day.
I think me and my girlfriend atthe time had only ever been
(29:00):
home, like Two nights in a rowthe most like it was always out
and about doing something andwalkable and I even got rid of
my car, because, you know,having been in Wisconsin, you
have to have a car.
But I was like, Hey, I don'thave to have it.
So I had gotten rid of my carand being able to just kind of
(29:21):
walk everywhere.
And then when COVID happened,like it was just, you know,
Chaos in a lot of ways, becauseyou, you didn't know what was
going on and suddenly everyonehad to like basically be cooped
up.
And that's what spurred me toultimately buy a house on the
east side of LA and get out ofdowntown a little bit.
But then everyone embracedremote work.
(29:43):
Like everyone, you know, we hadsmall groupings of people that
would come together.
We knew it was like safercircles.
Um, but then, you know, workwise, like it was just Another
day, like we, it just becamepart of our routine and it gave
more back.
I was able to actually thinkabout other things outside of my
(30:05):
work and, you know, be able tospend more time, you know, with
loved ones and friends.
And that was just.
It changed my entire perspectivebecause I had been so focused on
working.
I'd sacrificed so much to comeout to California.
Like you give up, yeah, yougive, you give up relationships.
You give up, you give up.
(30:26):
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
I mean, two, well, 2k at a time.
And then blizzard, like theymove you to where they want and
you know, they could lay you offat any time, but they move you
to wherever.
And then suddenly it's just ashift in perspective of like,
Kaleem (30:40):
Yeah.
Ben (30:41):
Actually, let's take the control back a little bit, and I
don't have to be beholden to allthese rules of these companies.
Like, there's no reason for itin reality.
Kaleem (30:52):
Wow.
Rick (30:53):
crazy, it's crazy to hear that working remotely has
literally changed a busy placelike Los Angeles.
I mean, it has quieted thechaos.
Ben (31:03):
It did for a while.
It's, it's backed.
Kaleem (31:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben (31:06):
it's, it's back to being pretty busy.
Uh,
Rick (31:11):
But, but, I mean, what do you think?
Do you think remote work is hereto stay?
Mmm.
Ben (31:21):
like a combination of those two are absolutely here to stay.
Uh, you know, there's alwaysgoing to be a certain group, a
certain percentage that it makessense for remote, like, it's
just embracing flexibility ishere to stay.
And where there's certainpositions that they need.
(31:41):
In person, even then they mostlikely are going to be like,
well, you come to the officelike Tuesday through Thursday,
like Mondays and Fridays areremote.
And so I think that isabsolutely here to stay.
Anyone that enforces a kind of astrict code to things, I think
they're going to lose their mosttalented people because the most
talented people will always begiven flexibility.
(32:03):
So they're just going to losetheir best and brightest, and
then their companies willeventually fall to the wayside
and fall behind more innovativecompanies that are trying to
really think about thingsdifferently.
Kaleem (32:15):
So what's fascinating about that statement is you were
in LA when the lockdownhappened.
You know, you were working thereand then you decided, Hey, I'm
going to do my own thing.
And you said, nah, not only do Iwant to do my own thing, but I
want to be able to helpunderserved populationswho, who
(32:36):
are developers that don't getthese opportunities to live
necessarily in LA to be, becauselike, that's where I was kind of
feeling what Rick was talking,what you were kind of talking
about before you had to be in LAto make it.
You're not just going to be ableto be far away from LA and make
it in anything back in the day.
You had to be there.
That's where every story starts.
(32:56):
I moved to LA to do boom.
But what I hear you saying isyou're like, nah, I'm gonna take
a different angle.
I'm going to add flexibility, tomy company and I'm going to hire
people from wherever they wantto.
I'm going to give them thecontrol of their life.
Ben (33:12):
Mm hmm.
Kaleem (33:13):
Do you feel like that that is a strategic advantage
for Midwest Games?
Do you feel like that puts.
Like, are you kind of sittingback saying return to office
five days a week?
Ah, like, are you just like,please do it, please do it.
I mean, so how do you feel likethat that is a strategic
vantage?
And also when you sayunderserved populations, that's
(33:34):
inclusion and diversity as well.
Like you're hitting some prettylike high level societal
challenges.
What is that impact having onyour company?
And are you seeing the benefitsfrom it?
Ben (33:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I definitely don't sitback and hope that others like
do it, but the reality is somewill.
Some are.
And that sucks for workers, itmakes it really challenging and
every business has their choiceto do that, like it, and that's
fine, like they can do it, but Ithink they're hurting
themselves, and they don't haveto listen to me, they'll find
(34:07):
out over the long run what itdoes, and so for us, I looked at
the game industry, and part ofbefore I left, Netflix games, to
build this.
I looked at the data and thedata is fairly simple.
You look at that.
There's a 2020 study from theESA, the entertainment software
association, which is basically,you know, the government
(34:27):
advocate for the video gameindustry, and ultimately at that
point, 67 percent of theindustry, the video game in the
U S was in three states,California.
Washington and Texas, reallyfour areas, essentially the
Seattle area, the San Franciscoarea, L.
(34:50):
A.
San Diego area and Austin,Texas, and so two thirds of the
entire industry in the U.
S.
Which makes up that is tied forthe largest section of the
industry tied with China, in theworld.
Is is in so few places and thenI looked at the migration
(35:13):
patterns in 2021 2022 and whatyou see is people are moving
outside of these those citiesbecause they're expensive, they
don't have a reason to be thereanymore and so they move either
to a more cost reasonable placeor well and or where they're
(35:35):
from.
And so many people, and this iswhat I experienced being at
every single company.
It's incredible.
The amount of people that arefrom the Midwest, and we find
each other.
We always find each other.
It's incredible, because there'sa sense of pride, and resentment
towards the forced movement ofthe population and all the
(35:57):
talent away from it, to thepoint that they say the talent
can't come from there when inreality is.
People doing everything in theentertainment industry are all
from there.
Kaleem (36:08):
right,
Ben (36:09):
incredible
Kaleem (36:10):
from LA
Ben (36:11):
Yeah, no one's from LA No one's from LA.
So looking at all the data.
I'm like, wait a second.
The talent is already elsewherenow so what we're doing is is
Bringing opportunity to thetalent instead of the opposite,
where talent has to go toopportunity.
And so just switching that andgoing to a place and saying,
(36:36):
Hey, we're not only going to saythat, do that, we are going to
live it by being based.
And so, you know, in Green Bay,Wisconsin, you know, that's it's
not a place that you're like,Oh, yeah, all the tech or video
game activity in the world, butit's a place that has the
potential to be that.
(36:56):
And now that Austin, Texas, youWhich was the cheaper
alternative to these otherplaces is very expensive.
Having just come from it fromSouth by Southwest, everything
happening there.
My bet is they're looking forthe next place.
And so what I'm seeing is.
That by embracing that we'refinding tons of talent that have
(37:19):
come back to these other placesthat are trying to do new things
and trying to bring theirfavorite parts of L.
A.
or San Francisco or Seattle orAustin to these other places.
And so my bet is we're going tosee a growth in midsize hubs
that has.
A lot of like the cool thingsthat you love about a big city,
(37:40):
but at a reasonable price in,you know, these kinds of hubs.
So places like Madison, AnnArbor, Cincinnati are all, I
think, going to benefit frompeople coming back and being
like, you know, I'm from thisplace.
I want to make this cool.
Like some of the elements of LAand they're actually building it
(38:02):
themselves.
You know, I know one of our gamedevelopers that we signed lives
in Cincinnati and I hadn't beento Cincinnati before I worked
with him and I was amazed.
Yeah, and now I have and now Iwas amazed at the downtown
Cincinnati is so cool.
There's so much going on andwhat he did was he lived in L.
A.
He sold his company.
(38:22):
He went back to Cincinnati.
He built a game studio.
He built a comic book shop.
He built a bar all within likethis one block area and suddenly
like that area is really cool.
And brings in creative thoughtand brings in some of this kind
of innovation that that was thesame reason when, like going
back to San Francisco, like thereason it exists there is
(38:45):
because they spur it and it'sin, you know, you just have it,
um, kind of like on steroids inthat space.
And the more you can encouragethat in the kind of these mid
hubs, innovation is going tohappen.
And then something is going totake off there.
You never know what kind ofindustry or what kind of thing
might take off in that place.
But something is if there isenough like kind of in the
(39:07):
cauldron, you know, beingstirred around.
Kaleem (39:10):
That was amazing.
Kudos to you for doing that.
The great thing that I loveabout what you're talking about
is You can also still live inthe city and work at Midwest
Games too.
Like back to your point is likeyou can relocate to some of the
smaller hubs, but at the sametime, if you love the city and
you love, you, love freedom andflexibility in working for a
(39:31):
good company, then you can stillwork for Midwest games and back
to your point of whatever's goodfor you in your life, you have
that flexibility.
So that, that's awesome.
So Rick, it's up to you.
Rick (39:43):
So Ben, tell us about a comical or perhaps inspiring
moment you may have had whileworking remotely.
Kaleem (39:51):
yeah.
yeah.
Ben (39:51):
Well, since the first
Kaleem (39:52):
ha ha.
ha.
Rick (39:55):
Ha!
Ben (39:56):
the comical was when we were in my downtown loft in LA
and just the beginning of likeremote work and everything.
You know, you don't always thinkabout like planning out your
bathroom breaks and things likethat.
And so I was in the middle oflike an important meeting and
all of a sudden, My girlfriendat the time, my now wife, uh,
(40:21):
Just, the loudest noise comesbecause she's like Ends her
meeting has like a minute beforenext meeting and decides to run
around the corner to run to thebathroom and then just slides
out and basically right behindme.
Cause I was like in the livingroom cause we're in this like
small, like loft and it just,just crashes.
(40:42):
And then of course I'm like, I'min a meeting.
I'm like, just a sec.
I gotta.
Go make sure my, my girlfriend'sstill alive, uh, behind me.
Um, uh, she just like, she likehad her socks on and like, just
like was trying to run to thebathroom and just slip and boom,
like just nailed, nailed theground.
Kaleem (41:04):
was she okay?
was
Ben (41:05):
Yeah, she was, she was okay.
But my coworkers got a goodlaugh cause I witnessed it all
right behind me.
Um, they saw the whole
Kaleem (41:13):
and everything.
Ben (41:14):
They saw it.
They saw it.
It was, it was hilarious.
Uh, I wish, uh, maybe it's inthe Netflix like vault.
Maybe they'll have a special onit someday.
Kaleem (41:30):
you're on the call.
Please.
You weren't on a call with likea movie director or
Ben (41:34):
No, no, I don't, no, no, just co workers.
And then the other one, theinspirational is I did this, I
announced on LinkedIn that, Hey,I'm going to go create this
thing.
And you know, that post, like Ijust said, I'm leaving Netflix.
And you know, that post onLinkedIn hit 400, 000 people,
(41:55):
which is, LinkedIn is not knownfor virality.
It's like really hard to getanything above like a 30, 000 to
50, 000.
And that blew up.
And with that, I got like 2000messages that weekend from just
different people inspired by themessage.
And one of them was, you know, awoman that was the head of
(42:16):
audience and brand at crunchyroll, uh, you know, basically
the Netflix of anime, and shewas living in Madison,
Wisconsin.
And I was like, Well, I'm like,I'm going to have this marketing
role.
Like I would like be superinterested.
And you know, what was inspiringwas she was like, I was
convinced that the rest of mycareer, I was going to have to
(42:39):
work, you know, she like doeswork remotely, but she's like, I
would have to work like nowherenear where I actually work.
And she's like, suddenly likeshe was given this opportunity
to be able to be close to
Kaleem (42:54):
Oh,
Ben (42:54):
she works, but still be able to be remote.
Um, like that she has theability to come, you know, to
it.
It's just a little bit less thantwo hours away in Green Bay to
Madison.
And, uh, and the fact that she'slike, I can actually like do
what I love, be remote, butstill, but also be close at
(43:15):
least in time zone.
With my work.
And so that was just, it wascool to see the bet of, Hey,
talent is there.
And immediately it was like,yeah, it's there.
And like, that makes a hugedifference in the, in folks
lives, that they can do whatthey love without being the one
person that's out in the middleof nowhere, uh, you know,
(43:36):
according to the people in LA,right.
Kaleem (43:39):
Mm-Hmm.
That's the worst.
Man, thank you.
Rick (43:42):
that's,
Kaleem (43:43):
that is inspirational, bro.
That is inspirational.
My goodness.
Thank you for what you're doing,man.
Like both Rick and I are fromsmall towns, Bangor, Maine, you
know, small state, smallpopulation.
And we need more people.
Rick (43:57):
Yeah.
Kaleem (44:01):
Hey, look, you know, come work with us.
We're trying to help this placedo better things.
So
Ben (44:05):
Well, we just have an opportunity.
Yeah.
We have an opportunity, like.
You know, especially in ourindustry and many creative
industries were notrepresentative enough of the
world around us and we need toif we want to truly entertain
the world in these entertainmentindustries, we have to create.
Bring in more from other placesthat aren't represented because
(44:26):
guess what?
They're consuming theentertainment and they're like,
okay, it's all right, but theydon't see themselves in the
entertainment.
And so the more we can embracebringing in folks from other
places to be able to entertainthe world, I think that just the
more representative of the worldwe get to be.
Kaleem (44:43):
that's awesome.
Rick (44:44):
Wow.
Aptly put.
Ben Quallow, thank you so muchfor joining us.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Kaleem (44:49):
Thanks, man.
Really appreciate
Rick (44:51):
Yeah.
can our listeners find you, Ben?
Ben (44:54):
would recommend finding me on LinkedIn.
Pretty easy.
Uh, With my name, I'm the onlyone in the world.
And also you can check out ourcompany at Midwest games.
com.
Rick (45:06):
Awesome.
Keep up the great work.
Kaleem (45:09):
Yes, man.
Keep doing your thing.
Really appreciate it.
Hey, I'm going to get somegaming in so I'll talk to you
all later.
Peace.
I used to play professional ski ball.
(00:02):
Wisconski is my skee ball name.
Rick (00:05):
That's pretty
Kaleem (00:06):
better.
He goes by Wisconski.
Ben (00:09):
my, wife plays in the social league and, uh, her ski
ball name is Ski Rex.
Kaleem (00:14):
What?
Hang on this.
Rick (00:16):
I love this so much.
This is great.
Ben (00:18):
And,
Kaleem (00:19):
better and better.
We should just have a podcastabout the ski boss ski racks in
Wisconsin.
You kidding me?
Ben (00:25):
Oh yeah, we rolled against the Back Ski Boys, you know,
and, uh,
Kaleem (00:31):
just
Rick (00:31):
Oh my god.
Ben (00:33):
And then, uh, yeah.
I've been the interim Ski EO ofLA Ski Ball for, for a while.
There you go.
Rick (00:41):
These puns are incredible, by the way.
Kaleem (00:42):
Bro, why am I laughing so hard at this shit?
It's hilarious.
You TikTok channel, bro, of justski puns.
You could go on forever.
Ben (00:51):
Oh, no, there's, there's so many.
It's, uh, yeah.
it's on, it's unscalable.
Kaleem (01:00):
god.
Oh
Rick (01:03):
Oh, I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
I love it.
Welcome back, everybody, toRemotely One.
I am your co host, Rick Haney,joined by my ever esteemed
colleague, Kaleem Clarkson.
What's going down, my
Kaleem (01:20):
I see you, baby, back from Vegas.
I see you.
How you doing, man?
How you doing?
Rick (01:26):
Refreshed.
Kaleem (01:27):
Ah, you look great, man.
Those baby blues are alwaysshining.
Rick (01:31):
Oh.
Oh.
Kaleem (01:35):
Voice sounding silky smooth.
I love it when your voice just,you know, it's all smooth in
that
Rick (01:40):
not enough O's in smooth.
Not enough O's in smooth.
Hey.
Listeners and viewers, since youknow how to find us, go do us a
favor and go to ratethispodcast.
com forward slash remotely one,and just leave us a review.
Again, ratethispodcast.
com forward slash remotely one.
(02:00):
And if you could do that for us,we would be ever so thankful.
Since 2015 remotely one is oneof the largest communities of
remote work professionals withover 3000.
Slack members and 5, 000 emailsubscribers.
It's free to join free F R E Efree.
So go check it out remotely one.
(02:22):
com.
And with that out of the way,Kaleem, please give us a tease
or two about today's guest.
Kaleem (02:28):
Huh?
Brother, brother.
Oh yeah.
Like you're
Rick (02:31):
Oh, yeah, brother.
Kaleem (02:32):
Really?
Much.
Savage.
Our guest today has gotten mesweating through so many damn
shirts.
I had to put on, you know, thebear shirt for our guest today.
I sweat through like two orthree on the shirt because he
got me nervous and you're goingto find out when we get through
some of these cracks.
Oh man.
I guess.
Whew.
Let me calm down for a second.
Let me calm down.
(02:53):
Okay.
I'm calm.
I'm calm.
I'm calm.
All right.
Um, first something about ourguest.
They are originally fromPortage, Wisconsin.
Okay.
Rick (03:02):
Hmm.
Ooh, yeah.
Kaleem (03:04):
currently reside between LA and Green Bay.
Yeah.
Our guest today, they have to goto LA for a lot of shits.
So then they, you know, it'sprobably cheaper to have a place
in two places.
You know what I mean?
Rick (03:15):
It's a real snickerdoodle.
Sometimes I got to get, uh, oneplace and I'm in the other.
Hmm.
Kaleem (03:21):
What in the?
What in the?
Who's that?
Who's that, Rick?
Was that our fourth guest?
Rick (03:25):
I guess.
Kaleem (03:26):
All right, let's see.
Uh, graduate of Wisconsin.
So they are the Badgers.
Go Badgers.
Did I get that right, guest?
Ben (03:33):
no, Wisconsin, Green Bay, Phoenix.
Kaleem (03:40):
so the Phoenixes.
They're the Phoenixes.
Ben (03:42):
Yeah, rise from the ashes.
Rick (03:46):
Yes.
Kaleem (03:48):
do the bird call.
Uh, you know, Rick,unfortunately, our guest is also
a diehard Packers fan.
You know what I
Rick (03:55):
Well, depends on which way you look at it.
That might not be unfortunatefor
Kaleem (03:58):
Man, it's probably fortunate for him because
they've been dominating myfavorite Bears team.
So I put on my shirt, especiallyfor our guest today.
But interestingly enough, thePackers somehow invested in his
company.
So that's really interesting.
Rick (04:10):
That's special.
Kaleem (04:11):
Yes, Rick, our guests started back in the day while
they are a student, kind ofsimilar to some shit that you
were doing back in the day,student radio.
So we got to talk aboutbroadcast.
Remember that?
Remember broadcasting?
Rick (04:24):
do.
Great memories.
Great memories.
Yeah.
Kaleem (04:28):
Um, then, you know, they started working at this small
little company.
If you haven't played, I don'tknow, NBA 2.
Uh, started working at 2K andwas a senior global project
manager.
No big deal.
Just a small, tiny littlecompany.
Just a small one, Rick.
Yeah, then just another smallcompany, Rick.
(04:51):
Blizzard Entertainment.
You may have heard of
Rick (04:54):
Oh?
Kaleem (04:55):
a little thing may have, may have not, but it was in the
e sports ship, man.
E sports crazy, crazy.
Our guest is partner goes byWisconsin ski and they play it
against.
Is it, is it scree X
Rick (05:13):
Ski racks.
Kaleem (05:14):
Ski racks.
Wait, no, I get this mixed up.
You go by Wisconski and yourpartner goes by ski racks,
right?
Ben (05:20):
Oh, yeah.
Kaleem (05:21):
Okay, cool.
And they rolled against a teamcalled, the basket boys.
Yep.
Ben (05:27):
Yep.
The backseat boys.
Yeah.
Rick (05:29):
These are amazing.
Kaleem (05:31):
so he's a professional skee ball player and has played
in the world championships,crazy, crazy.
Um, oh, he was the leadprogrammer at another company.
That's kind of tiny.
Netflix, right?
Rick (05:44):
Never heard of them.
Kaleem (05:45):
Okay, so they send these dvds and movies they send these
dvds and they send them to youin the mail, bro That's what
this company does.
Rick (05:55):
trust them either.
Ha! Ha!
Kaleem (05:58):
So we got to talk to him about being a lead program
manager of games at Netflix.
His company, they won mobilegame publisher of the year in
2022, I guess is the founder andCEO of Midwest games, which also
supports underrepresenteddevelopers, listeners, and
viewers.
You got to give a warm welcometo.
(06:22):
Oh, that's what we do.
And this is
Rick (06:38):
from the block.
Kaleem (06:39):
best part of the show because it makes him laugh.
Ben, thank you so much forcoming, man.
Thank you so much
Rick (06:46):
Did you do that on purpose?
Ben (06:47):
It's
Kaleem (06:47):
I did.
Ben (06:48):
here.
Rick (06:51):
Your life is never gonna be the same, Ben Qualo.
Ben (06:53):
no, it's right.
I've been called worse.
Kaleem (06:57):
It has been qualo.
It's qualo.
Rick (07:03):
Oh man, we're having fun already.
Ben, thank you so much forjoining us.
It's a pleasure to have youhere.
We're glad you could join us.
Ben (07:09):
Yeah, it's a blast to be here.
Thanks for having me.
Rick (07:11):
Yeah man, so, just getting right into it.
You've had some really coolexperiences, you know, ranging
from radio broadcasting to bigroles in the film industry.
With all of that on your resume,what landed you in the gaming
industry?
Ben (07:27):
Yeah, it was random.
I originally went to school togo into sports management,
wanted to work for the Packers,wanted to work in NFL, wanted
to, you know, wanted to manage,manage a team, scouts, you know,
everything that goes into kindof the football operations.
And, and I come from a lot offootball in my blood.
(07:52):
My great grandfather, Is in theHall of Fame at UW Madison, the
Badgers, and then he also wasthe first American inducted into
the CFL Hall of Fame, theCanadian Football League Hall of
Fame.
So I come from a footballlineage and so I thought that's
what I'm going to do.
And then I, you know, went tocollege, went to UW Green Bay to
(08:13):
be close by the Packers.
I thought that's going to giveme that advantage.
It didn't.
And then it did not.
And then I ended up finding apath in entertainment, which,
you know, adjacent in a lot ofways to what sports essentially
is, if you think about it.
And what I was able to do wasstart up a radio station in
college.
(08:34):
We were the only UW schoolwithout a radio station.
Did that for a while, built thatfrom the ground up.
And that ended up being my firstlike entrepreneurial type moment
in my And I didn't even realizeit at the moment.
I was just trying to find thatthing that I wanted to be doing.
And we went from being in abroom closet to the student
union, to one of the largeststudent orgs on campus.
(08:57):
And it was a really greatexperience.
And then I went into radio aftercollege and it was horrible.
Rick (09:03):
Yep.
Hehe.
Ben (09:06):
And so I got out of that very quickly and was very
fortunate to land with 2K invideo games.
You know, basically I was livingin Sturgeon Bay, which is just
north of Green Bay, in DoorCounty.
And from there, 2K reached out.
They were like, can you move toSan Francisco in two weeks and
(09:29):
start at 2K in this operationsrole?
And I said, yes, and droveacross the country.
Started two weeks later and thenwas able to work on the
beginnings of incrediblefranchises at an incredible
company That was really small atthe time 2k was a pretty small
publisher when I joined and thenwe Started to grow Borderlands
(09:54):
and Bioshock, Civilization,Xcom, Mafia, and then NBA2K took
off and became the highest ratedsports game in the world.
And it was just an incrediblemoment to be part of that
company.
And that helped accelerate mycareer into so many other areas
of games and then film and thenback to games and being able to
(10:17):
kind of get the vision.
Cause there's only operationsperson.
At 2k besides our executivegroup.
So I was able to work in everysingle different department
within a publishing group.
So it gave me a lot of exposureand awareness on the many
different areas and how complexthis business is, but how
incredible it can be.
And that really fed what I loveabout it, which is supporting
(10:40):
creatives.
Cause I'm like a half creative,like I'm creative enough, but I
realized there's There's farmore creative people than
myself.
And so how do I take myoperational knowledge and
business knowledge and combinethat with creativity to support
creators?
And that's essentially where mycareer was built off of.
Kaleem (10:59):
unbelievable.
So I'm just kind of going back.
It kind of sounds like thefamous story of I'm moving to
the big city mom and dad.
I'm going to be someone
Ben (11:10):
Yep.
Kaleem (11:10):
so you move from Wisconsin.
to San Francisco and I'massuming at this point, I mean,
like San Francisco is booming,you know, post dot com era.
Now it's coming back.
Now you're in the middle of allof these, you know, technology
enthusiasts right there.
What was kind of like your firstexperience in Silicon Valley?
(11:34):
does anything come to mind whenyou're like, whoa, like, yeah,
ish is different here than GreenBay.
Anything that kind of sticks toyour mind?
Ben (11:42):
Maybe the room size of what I could afford at the time.
in San Francisco compared toGreen Bay.
Like I had an apartment.
I think I was paid in radio, myfinal job in radio.
I think I was paid like 24, 000a year.
It's really bad.
And I was like, shoot, I'm goingto double my salary to come out
to San Francisco.
And then I got a place that wasmaybe like one eighth the size
(12:05):
of what I had in Wisconsin.
And so I think that the size,but.
But outside of that, it was justall the things happening, you
know, San Francisco in like kindof the 2010s.
Was so much tech innovationhappening in so many different
areas, you know, it was thebeginning of dating apps and and
(12:28):
and all everything there.
And that's where they testedeverything.
There was, I remember there wasa dating app for called Bristler
that was for guys with beards,uh, and like, that's how
specific that's how specificsome things got.
And it's, it was fascinating tobe that, be there with so many
other people trying to come upwith new ideas, new innovation,
(12:51):
and you just hadn't, or I hadn'tbeen part of an environment that
just encouraged so much.
So many ideas to come forwardand to really be thought about
and potentially funded andthings.
And so to be there and then bein the game space, the early
days, you know, the game space,it was so exciting.
(13:12):
I remember the moment welaunched borderlands two, which
ended up being such a huge, hugesuccess in the games industry.
And then being able to work onall of these different types of
games, some succeed in big ways,some failed, but ultimately
being in this really creativeenvironment, innovative
environment.
You know, it doesn't matter whatyou wear to work, like, you
(13:35):
know, especially compared tocompared to the Midwest, which
is like very, you know, suittie, uh, especially during that
period.
It's definitely changed.
Um, you know, the influenceschange, but ultimately it was
just.
It's such a differentenvironment.
It opened my eyes so much andthen being able to travel a lot
via my job.
I spent a lot of time livingabroad in some ways, like in
(13:57):
temp apartments like London andParis and Madrid, Munich,
Amsterdam, Singapore, and so itgave me a lot of exposure and
awareness to this outside worldthat just, you know, Has really
helped me in my career.
I think probably my biggestsuperpower now is just
perspective.
Like I've been in so manydifferent areas that it really
helps me understand where peopleare coming from, or at least be
(14:21):
aware that I don't know certainthings that I need to lean in
and learn in certain areas.
Rick (14:27):
Holy cow.
Um, You're talking about, youknow, getting your feet wet, and
then, making a lot of jumps.
I mean, you learned a lot in aconsiderable, well, pretty much
a small window as far as I'mconcerned.
I mean, you did this relativelyquickly.
So, you start in radio and thenyou, get into the film business
(14:48):
and then you kind of morph intothe, to the gaming industry.
Tell me a little bit about whatthe transition was like between,
the film industry, and thengetting into something where
you're like, totally creative.
You're an, you're immersed inthis new, flexible kind of
freedom that everybody islooking for.
And you're doing something thatyou're really passionate about.
(15:09):
Talk to me about what thatfeeling was like and how it kind
of led to where you are now.
Ben (15:15):
Yeah, it was actually the opposite.
I went from radio to games, toesports, to film, to games, to
games, essentially.
So, no,
Kaleem (15:30):
good
Ben (15:30):
because,
Kaleem (15:31):
job, Rick.
Ben (15:32):
because your, your point, your thesis of the question,
Makes sense.
Like it's the, these transitionpoints between many different
areas.
And, and it's interesting causeeven like going from games like
triple a games with two K to esports at blizzard.
That was a big transition.
(15:52):
It's two completely differentthings.
And I was fortunate to be in esports at kind of the height of
e sports before it's kind ofcrashed, and come back down to
reality, compared to what wasbeing spent at that era, but I
learned a lot and thentransitioning from e sports into
film, it was a challenge,because the film's Studio
(16:15):
industry is very different thanthe games industry.
And what was interesting, and Iwas again, fortunate that I was
at Netflix, which embraced thetechnology end of entertainment
within films and TV, whichwasn't as embraced at least not
until lately by this traditionalstudio industry, you know, they
(16:37):
looked at it a lot, like it waskind of a joke or it was like.
Like sub quality film, subquality TV, if it was on
streaming and it was fascinatingto come into that realm and see
the change from when I came inat the very beginning of Netflix
film.
I was the first hire on themarketing operations team to
(16:59):
help build out some of theinfrastructure for Netflix film
to three years later.
We were suddenly, you know,theaters were dying because of
the influence that Netflix filmshad to change people's
perspectives and thoughts andperception of the film industry
and the fact that actually youcan enjoy a great film anywhere.
(17:23):
Some people enjoy it on theirphone.
Some people enjoy it in atheater.
And you can't tell somebody thatthey're right or wrong about
that.
If that's how they enjoy it, orthat's how they have to enjoy
it.
If you'd go to many othercountries around the world,
that's all they have.
Their movie theater is theirphone.
Like they only can ever enjoycontent via their phone.
(17:46):
And so being able to make thingsaccessible to the wider global
community, that's the really thegreatest thing that Netflix has
done is it didn't just discountpeople because they didn't have
a TV or they didn't have, youknow, a theater nearby.
A lot of people don't actuallyhave that.
And if we can bring it to theirphone where they do have that,
(18:07):
They enjoy content anddelivering content like that.
And so was a really interestinglesson again, in perspective of
like, what is actually the mostimportant and how can you change
an industry like that?
But games and films are sodifferent.
Yet today, what we're seeing isthe convergence.
Between all of that, we'reseeing more games be turned into
(18:29):
films.
We're seeing the interest fromthe films and TV industry into
so much content, for example,Blumhouse just had their biggest
film success ever.
Which is amazing cause they'vebeen, you know, doing this for a
while and really successful inthe horror genre yet five night
at Freddy's, which is a smallindie game.
(18:52):
Blew up, and the biggest, theirbiggest film release ever.
And so I think we're going tosee a lot more of success in
kind of the, this combination ofgames and film and they realize
games is so valuable becausegames can be so valuable.
Is actually seven times biggerthan the film industry.
(19:12):
Games is, is bigger than films,TV, and music combined times
about two.
So games is the biggestentertainment industry by far.
It's not even close.
There's 3.
8 billion gamers.
It's an industry that's nearing,I think 350 billion and, per
year.
Like it, it is an extremelyvaluable industry that's, that
(19:36):
has.
Made everyone else look prettysmall.
And so that's why a lot of filmsand TV are trying to attach onto
it.
And they're finding it ininteresting places.
You know, one of the moststreamed shows on Netflix is
cuphead, which is a small indiegame.
That is kind of in the vein oflike old school Mickey Mouse and
like kind of that art style ofanimation and that has been one
(20:00):
of the most streamed shows onNetflix and there's a lot more
of that.
And we're also seeing anime comeinto play a lot as well.
Anime is just huge worldwide andgrowing and that kind of has a
strong connection to games aswell.
Kaleem (20:16):
Jeez, who would have thought back in the ColecoVision
days of playing BurgerTime?
That we'd be at a point nowwhere you have professional
sport leagues.
You have movies within videogames, you know, like just
playing like Call of Duty fromback in the day of just, you
know, seeing those little videoclips.
Now, they're like HD filmsalmost like like it's just
(20:38):
fascinating to hear there.
So now you've you know, you workat all these unbelievable
companies and you've tastedthese things.
Yeah, Netflix.
Now, now you just say, hey, I'mgoing to do my own thing.
Like that's that's a big jump initself.
So how we met, listeners andviewers, audience, through
(20:59):
online LinkedIn.
You made a really powerfulcomment anytime.
I or somebody tagged you in thecomment.
I was talking on some articleabout remote work and culture.
How to create a setting in aspace.
That's where, you know, Rick andI talk a lot about.
So it's really cool to just havean insight to an industry that a
(21:20):
lot of people aren't really upto date on, you know, what is it
about remote work that you thinkmakes people so passionate, you
know, especially individuals andHow have you kind of adopted
some of these things with yourcompany?
So I kind of like to hear aboutyour leadership style and what
it is that Midwest games doesand what your thoughts are
(21:42):
around remote work culture.
We'll be right back after thesewords.
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Alright, well that's a bit much,but for you, I'll do it.
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(23:51):
And now, back to the show.
Ben (23:53):
Yeah, I mean, it really started with my time at Netflix.
Netflix A has just an incredibleculture.
They believe in it verystrongly.
They put it out online.
You can look up the culture deckand it's really powerful
statements.
And I embraced that in a majorway when I was there and learned
so much from it.
(24:14):
And during my time there, webecame remote because obviously,
COVID and everything like that.
And so we had to adapt quickly.
And luckily, our cultureembraced the freedom.
Like, a big piece is freedom andresponsibility.
We always had the option to workremote.
Whenever we wanted, if we feltlike that was the right option
(24:37):
for us it was part of ourfreedom and responsibility.
So when we suddenly transitionedto a full remote scenario, we
adapted pretty quickly.
You know, you adjust some thingsand meetings, like how to
design, making sure everyone hasa voice.
It's, you know, it definitelychanges your approach.
But I took so many lessons fromthat moment.
And then as I, you know, I wasin film at that moment and then
(25:01):
joined the Games Org to helplead the launch of Netflix games
I was like, hey, I keep buildingall these things for other
people like Why don't I go buildsomething for myself and see
what happens like see if I cando this and a big piece of it
being Well, how do we supportunderserved, underrepresented
(25:23):
folks.
And ultimately givingflexibility and freedom to for
folks to choose what's right forthem.
It was a big tenant of whatMidwest Games is all about.
And so we went into it likethat.
And what we found was,
Kaleem (25:39):
Why Ben?
I'm just curious.
Yeah, because you could havejust created a company any way
you wanted.
But why why why?
Ben (25:49):
it A, didn't, Didn't feel right like I'm a believer in you
know Letting people be incontrol of their own destiny and
they decide what it is now Wehave an office that people want
to come to it.
They can come to it, but dowhat's right for them and that
They will ultimately do so muchmore work wise.
(26:13):
They will feel comfortable intheir environment.
They will feel like they havethe flexibility to, to live the
life they want to live.
And that just, I think,encourages a more productive
workforce.
Anyways, and we're in anindustry where it works really
well.
I get that Not every industry isremote friendly.
You know, that's a thing aagain, a perspective thing.
(26:33):
We have to always understand.
You know, it's somebody that isin the service industry, doesn't
have that choice or that luxuryand, but we do in games.
And so why don't we takeadvantage of that?
And allow for the flexibility ofit.
I just think it gives somebodyso much more, that they can live
(26:54):
for and they can still do theproductive work and they can
live the way that they want.
And what was great by coming outlike that and saying, Hey, we
want to give theseopportunities, but we're also
still flexible.
It allowed us to find incredibletalent.
For example, we've been able tofind people that are from the
Midwest, but, you know, our headof production lives in Seattle,
(27:15):
but he's from Michigan.
Kaleem (27:17):
Hmm.
Ben (27:17):
And it allows us to bring somebody into Midwest Games that
has that strong connection,understands the challenge of
having to move to the West Coastbecause there was an opportunity
in the Midwest, and be reallypassionate about it, but still
live in Seattle.
And, you know, if he ever wantsto move back to the Midwest, he
now has that path.
And some people, I think overtime will take that path and
(27:40):
some won't, and that's okay.
He still, Incredibly valuable toeverything that we're doing.
And there's no reduction in kindof work.
If anything, it's, it's kind ofnice that we have somebody
that's in a different, like aslightly different time zone
because it helps kind of staggerour work just a little bit.
Rick (28:00):
Cool.
Cool.
You know, I, I lived in LA, longbefore the pandemic.
I was part of that culture outthere for a time.
And I can't imagine what it waslike being in, in such a hub of
activity during a lockdown.
In fact, I was there at nine 11,but that was totally different.
The pandemic lastedsignificantly longer.
(28:21):
So in your experience seeing LA,you know, during the pandemic,
you know, how has that communityembraced a remote company these
days?
I mean, how did, how has itchanged things?
Kaleem (28:35):
Yeah,
Ben (28:36):
mean, everyone's remote.
I was in downtown LA when all ofthis happened, I was on 7th and
flower.
And so like, It went from beingsuch a busy, like I had a fairly
small loft cause you don't needmuch cause I was out and about
almost every single day.
I think me and my girlfriend atthe time had only ever been
(29:00):
home, like Two nights in a rowthe most like it was always out
and about doing something andwalkable and I even got rid of
my car, because, you know,having been in Wisconsin, you
have to have a car.
But I was like, Hey, I don'thave to have it.
So I had gotten rid of my carand being able to just kind of
(29:21):
walk everywhere.
And then when COVID happened,like it was just, you know,
Chaos in a lot of ways, becauseyou, you didn't know what was
going on and suddenly everyonehad to like basically be cooped
up.
And that's what spurred me toultimately buy a house on the
east side of LA and get out ofdowntown a little bit.
But then everyone embracedremote work.
(29:43):
Like everyone, you know, we hadsmall groupings of people that
would come together.
We knew it was like safercircles.
Um, but then, you know, workwise, like it was just Another
day, like we, it just becamepart of our routine and it gave
more back.
I was able to actually thinkabout other things outside of my
(30:05):
work and, you know, be able tospend more time, you know, with
loved ones and friends.
And that was just.
It changed my entire perspectivebecause I had been so focused on
working.
I'd sacrificed so much to comeout to California.
Like you give up, yeah, yougive, you give up relationships.
You give up, you give up.
(30:26):
Yeah.
Well, yeah.
I mean, two, well, 2k at a time.
And then blizzard, like theymove you to where they want and
you know, they could lay you offat any time, but they move you
to wherever.
And then suddenly it's just ashift in perspective of like,
Kaleem (30:40):
Yeah.
Ben (30:41):
Actually, let's take the control back a little bit, and I
don't have to be beholden to allthese rules of these companies.
Like, there's no reason for itin reality.
Kaleem (30:52):
Wow.
Rick (30:53):
crazy, it's crazy to hear that working remotely has
literally changed a busy placelike Los Angeles.
I mean, it has quieted thechaos.
Ben (31:03):
It did for a while.
It's, it's backed.
Kaleem (31:05):
Yeah.
Yeah.
Ben (31:06):
it's, it's back to being pretty busy.
Uh,
Rick (31:11):
But, but, I mean, what do you think?
Do you think remote work is hereto stay?
Mmm.
Ben (31:21):
like a combination of those two are absolutely here to stay.
Uh, you know, there's alwaysgoing to be a certain group, a
certain percentage that it makessense for remote, like, it's
just embracing flexibility ishere to stay.
And where there's certainpositions that they need.
(31:41):
In person, even then they mostlikely are going to be like,
well, you come to the officelike Tuesday through Thursday,
like Mondays and Fridays areremote.
And so I think that isabsolutely here to stay.
Anyone that enforces a kind of astrict code to things, I think
they're going to lose their mosttalented people because the most
talented people will always begiven flexibility.
(32:03):
So they're just going to losetheir best and brightest, and
then their companies willeventually fall to the wayside
and fall behind more innovativecompanies that are trying to
really think about thingsdifferently.
Kaleem (32:15):
So what's fascinating about that statement is you were
in LA when the lockdownhappened.
You know, you were working thereand then you decided, Hey, I'm
going to do my own thing.
And you said, nah, not only do Iwant to do my own thing, but I
want to be able to helpunderserved populationswho, who
(32:36):
are developers that don't getthese opportunities to live
necessarily in LA to be, becauselike, that's where I was kind of
feeling what Rick was talking,what you were kind of talking
about before you had to be in LAto make it.
You're not just going to be ableto be far away from LA and make
it in anything back in the day.
You had to be there.
That's where every story starts.
(32:56):
I moved to LA to do boom.
But what I hear you saying isyou're like, nah, I'm gonna take
a different angle.
I'm going to add flexibility, tomy company and I'm going to hire
people from wherever they wantto.
I'm going to give them thecontrol of their life.
Ben (33:12):
Mm hmm.
Kaleem (33:13):
Do you feel like that that is a strategic advantage
for Midwest Games?
Do you feel like that puts.
Like, are you kind of sittingback saying return to office
five days a week?
Ah, like, are you just like,please do it, please do it.
I mean, so how do you feel likethat that is a strategic
vantage?
And also when you sayunderserved populations, that's
(33:34):
inclusion and diversity as well.
Like you're hitting some prettylike high level societal
challenges.
What is that impact having onyour company?
And are you seeing the benefitsfrom it?
Ben (33:46):
Yeah.
Yeah.
I mean, I definitely don't sitback and hope that others like
do it, but the reality is somewill.
Some are.
And that sucks for workers, itmakes it really challenging and
every business has their choiceto do that, like it, and that's
fine, like they can do it, but Ithink they're hurting
themselves, and they don't haveto listen to me, they'll find
(34:07):
out over the long run what itdoes, and so for us, I looked at
the game industry, and part ofbefore I left, Netflix games, to
build this.
I looked at the data and thedata is fairly simple.
You look at that.
There's a 2020 study from theESA, the entertainment software
association, which is basically,you know, the government
(34:27):
advocate for the video gameindustry, and ultimately at that
point, 67 percent of theindustry, the video game in the
U S was in three states,California.
Washington and Texas, reallyfour areas, essentially the
Seattle area, the San Franciscoarea, L.
(34:50):
A.
San Diego area and Austin,Texas, and so two thirds of the
entire industry in the U.
S.
Which makes up that is tied forthe largest section of the
industry tied with China, in theworld.
Is is in so few places and thenI looked at the migration
(35:13):
patterns in 2021 2022 and whatyou see is people are moving
outside of these those citiesbecause they're expensive, they
don't have a reason to be thereanymore and so they move either
to a more cost reasonable placeor well and or where they're
(35:35):
from.
And so many people, and this iswhat I experienced being at
every single company.
It's incredible.
The amount of people that arefrom the Midwest, and we find
each other.
We always find each other.
It's incredible, because there'sa sense of pride, and resentment
towards the forced movement ofthe population and all the
(35:57):
talent away from it, to thepoint that they say the talent
can't come from there when inreality is.
People doing everything in theentertainment industry are all
from there.
Kaleem (36:08):
right,
Ben (36:09):
incredible
Kaleem (36:10):
from LA
Ben (36:11):
Yeah, no one's from LA No one's from LA.
So looking at all the data.
I'm like, wait a second.
The talent is already elsewherenow so what we're doing is is
Bringing opportunity to thetalent instead of the opposite,
where talent has to go toopportunity.
And so just switching that andgoing to a place and saying,
(36:36):
Hey, we're not only going to saythat, do that, we are going to
live it by being based.
And so, you know, in Green Bay,Wisconsin, you know, that's it's
not a place that you're like,Oh, yeah, all the tech or video
game activity in the world, butit's a place that has the
potential to be that.
(36:56):
And now that Austin, Texas, youWhich was the cheaper
alternative to these otherplaces is very expensive.
Having just come from it fromSouth by Southwest, everything
happening there.
My bet is they're looking forthe next place.
And so what I'm seeing is.
That by embracing that we'refinding tons of talent that have
(37:19):
come back to these other placesthat are trying to do new things
and trying to bring theirfavorite parts of L.
A.
or San Francisco or Seattle orAustin to these other places.
And so my bet is we're going tosee a growth in midsize hubs
that has.
A lot of like the cool thingsthat you love about a big city,
(37:40):
but at a reasonable price in,you know, these kinds of hubs.
So places like Madison, AnnArbor, Cincinnati are all, I
think, going to benefit frompeople coming back and being
like, you know, I'm from thisplace.
I want to make this cool.
Like some of the elements of LAand they're actually building it
(38:02):
themselves.
You know, I know one of our gamedevelopers that we signed lives
in Cincinnati and I hadn't beento Cincinnati before I worked
with him and I was amazed.
Yeah, and now I have and now Iwas amazed at the downtown
Cincinnati is so cool.
There's so much going on andwhat he did was he lived in L.
A.
He sold his company.
(38:22):
He went back to Cincinnati.
He built a game studio.
He built a comic book shop.
He built a bar all within likethis one block area and suddenly
like that area is really cool.
And brings in creative thoughtand brings in some of this kind
of innovation that that was thesame reason when, like going
back to San Francisco, like thereason it exists there is
(38:45):
because they spur it and it'sin, you know, you just have it,
um, kind of like on steroids inthat space.
And the more you can encouragethat in the kind of these mid
hubs, innovation is going tohappen.
And then something is going totake off there.
You never know what kind ofindustry or what kind of thing
might take off in that place.
But something is if there isenough like kind of in the
(39:07):
cauldron, you know, beingstirred around.
Kaleem (39:10):
That was amazing.
Kudos to you for doing that.
The great thing that I loveabout what you're talking about
is You can also still live inthe city and work at Midwest
Games too.
Like back to your point is likeyou can relocate to some of the
smaller hubs, but at the sametime, if you love the city and
you love, you, love freedom andflexibility in working for a
(39:31):
good company, then you can stillwork for Midwest games and back
to your point of whatever's goodfor you in your life, you have
that flexibility.
So that, that's awesome.
So Rick, it's up to you.
Rick (39:43):
So Ben, tell us about a comical or perhaps inspiring
moment you may have had whileworking remotely.
Kaleem (39:51):
yeah.
yeah.
Ben (39:51):
Well, since the first
Kaleem (39:52):
ha ha.
ha.
Rick (39:55):
Ha!
Ben (39:56):
the comical was when we were in my downtown loft in LA
and just the beginning of likeremote work and everything.
You know, you don't always thinkabout like planning out your
bathroom breaks and things likethat.
And so I was in the middle oflike an important meeting and
all of a sudden, My girlfriendat the time, my now wife, uh,
(40:21):
Just, the loudest noise comesbecause she's like Ends her
meeting has like a minute beforenext meeting and decides to run
around the corner to run to thebathroom and then just slides
out and basically right behindme.
Cause I was like in the livingroom cause we're in this like
small, like loft and it just,just crashes.
(40:42):
And then of course I'm like, I'min a meeting.
I'm like, just a sec.
I gotta.
Go make sure my, my girlfriend'sstill alive, uh, behind me.
Um, uh, she just like, she likehad her socks on and like, just
like was trying to run to thebathroom and just slip and boom,
like just nailed, nailed theground.
Kaleem (41:04):
was she okay?
was
Ben (41:05):
Yeah, she was, she was okay.
But my coworkers got a goodlaugh cause I witnessed it all
right behind me.
Um, they saw the whole
Kaleem (41:13):
and everything.
Ben (41:14):
They saw it.
They saw it.
It was, it was hilarious.
Uh, I wish, uh, maybe it's inthe Netflix like vault.
Maybe they'll have a special onit someday.
Kaleem (41:30):
you're on the call.
Please.
You weren't on a call with likea movie director or
Ben (41:34):
No, no, I don't, no, no, just co workers.
And then the other one, theinspirational is I did this, I
announced on LinkedIn that, Hey,I'm going to go create this
thing.
And you know, that post, like Ijust said, I'm leaving Netflix.
And you know, that post onLinkedIn hit 400, 000 people,
(41:55):
which is, LinkedIn is not knownfor virality.
It's like really hard to getanything above like a 30, 000 to
50, 000.
And that blew up.
And with that, I got like 2000messages that weekend from just
different people inspired by themessage.
And one of them was, you know, awoman that was the head of
(42:16):
audience and brand at crunchyroll, uh, you know, basically
the Netflix of anime, and shewas living in Madison,
Wisconsin.
And I was like, Well, I'm like,I'm going to have this marketing
role.
Like I would like be superinterested.
And you know, what was inspiringwas she was like, I was
convinced that the rest of mycareer, I was going to have to
(42:39):
work, you know, she like doeswork remotely, but she's like, I
would have to work like nowherenear where I actually work.
And she's like, suddenly likeshe was given this opportunity
to be able to be close to
Kaleem (42:54):
Oh,
Ben (42:54):
she works, but still be able to be remote.
Um, like that she has theability to come, you know, to
it.
It's just a little bit less thantwo hours away in Green Bay to
Madison.
And, uh, and the fact that she'slike, I can actually like do
what I love, be remote, butstill, but also be close at
(43:15):
least in time zone.
With my work.
And so that was just, it wascool to see the bet of, Hey,
talent is there.
And immediately it was like,yeah, it's there.
And like, that makes a hugedifference in the, in folks
lives, that they can do whatthey love without being the one
person that's out in the middleof nowhere, uh, you know,
(43:36):
according to the people in LA,right.
Kaleem (43:39):
Mm-Hmm.
That's the worst.
Man, thank you.
Rick (43:42):
that's,
Kaleem (43:43):
that is inspirational, bro.
That is inspirational.
My goodness.
Thank you for what you're doing,man.
Like both Rick and I are fromsmall towns, Bangor, Maine, you
know, small state, smallpopulation.
And we need more people.
Rick (43:57):
Yeah.
Kaleem (44:01):
Hey, look, you know, come work with us.
We're trying to help this placedo better things.
So
Ben (44:05):
Well, we just have an opportunity.
Yeah.
We have an opportunity, like.
You know, especially in ourindustry and many creative
industries were notrepresentative enough of the
world around us and we need toif we want to truly entertain
the world in these entertainmentindustries, we have to create.
Bring in more from other placesthat aren't represented because
(44:26):
guess what?
They're consuming theentertainment and they're like,
okay, it's all right, but theydon't see themselves in the
entertainment.
And so the more we can embracebringing in folks from other
places to be able to entertainthe world, I think that just the
more representative of the worldwe get to be.
Kaleem (44:43):
that's awesome.
Rick (44:44):
Wow.
Aptly put.
Ben Quallow, thank you so muchfor joining us.
It's been an absolute pleasure.
Kaleem (44:49):
Thanks, man.
Really appreciate
Rick (44:51):
Yeah.
can our listeners find you, Ben?
Ben (44:54):
would recommend finding me on LinkedIn.
Pretty easy.
Uh, With my name, I'm the onlyone in the world.
And also you can check out ourcompany at Midwest games.
com.
Rick (45:06):
Awesome.
Keep up the great work.
Kaleem (45:09):
Yes, man.
Keep doing your thing.
Really appreciate it.
Hey, I'm going to get somegaming in so I'll talk to you
all later.
Peace.
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