August 25, 2025 • 36 mins
Do you wonder if you might have undiagnosed ADHD? Or why so many women go years without a diagnosis? In this episode of Reset, Ash Cam sits down with Clinical Psychologist Ally to explore ADHD in women and adults - the signs, symptoms, and why it’s often overlooked.
Together, they discuss:
The most common ADHD symptoms in women
How ADHD affects careers, relationships, and daily life
Why so many adults are only being diagnosed later in life
How to support a friend, partner, or loved one with ADHD
Practical tips for recognising and managing ADHD traits
Whether you’re questioning your own symptoms, supporting someone you love, or just curious about adult ADHD, this episode is full of research-backed insights to help you understand how ADHD impacts modern life - and how to thrive despite it.
Resources & Links from this Episode:
Follow Ally on Instagram: @congruencepsychology
Congruence Psychology: https://www.congruencepsychology.com
Home Base Therapy Collective: https://www.homebasetherapycollective.com
Follow Ash on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/ashcam____
Reset Podcast Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reset___podcast
Watch on YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/@resetpodcastchannel
Reset Retreats & Events: www.resetworkplace.com.au
About the Reset Podcast:
Reset is your weekly pause - a space to learn something that helps you live happier and healthier. Hosted by Ash Cam, every episode blends science-backed wellbeing with grounded, relatable conversations designed to help high-achieving women thrive without burning out in the process. Because you deserve to live a life that feels as good as it looks
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
Hey and welcome back to Reset. I am your host Ash Cam.
This week I am actually going tobe re sharing an episode with
you that had some beautiful ripple effects across the entire
reset community. I received so many voice notes,
DMS, comments on this episode for women that went through
their entire schooling journey feeling like they were just on a
(00:24):
different wavelength to everyoneelse around them.
And when this episode came out, they were like, Ash, did you
record that specifically for me?I feel so seen.
I feel so heard. I've gone and booked an
appointment with Ali or another local psychologist, or I've just
started to understand myself differently.
So the episode that we're going to be replaying today is one
that was an interview with psychologist Ali.
(00:45):
And we're talking about all things ADHD, specifically around
ADHD in women. Enjoy Ali, Welcome to the Reset
podcast. Thank you.
I'm so excited to be here. I've been following along with
you for a little while now, so this just felt like the perfect
opportunity to meet. Yes, well, some of our reset
(01:09):
community are probably already following you online, but for
those who don't, can you just introduce yourself?
Sure. My name's Ali.
I'm a clinical psychologist based up in Brisbane.
I mostly work with a lot of highachievers, which is maybe why
there's a nice little Venn diagram of our followers, a lot
of women who struggle with perfectionism and burnout, and a
(01:32):
lot of ADHD clients as well. I work in solo private practice,
which is where my business Congruence was born.
And I also opened a shared spacecalled Home Based Therapy
Collective, which is for a lot of allied health to kind of come
together and be under this one little tin roof of a
Queenslander in Paddington. But we can still feel connected
(01:52):
and, and empower each other to work for ourselves.
And I just wanted to create a space that really gives back to
the allied health community because it's tricky to find
that, yeah. That sounds really beautiful and
I know a lot of allied health practitioners do work alone,
which can be quite lonely and isolating.
Yeah, for sure. And that was one of the primary
reasons for wanting to open homeBase because it's so hard to do
(02:16):
what we do. I think especially as
psychologists, it's a lot to hold and then to kind of the the
client leaves and to come out ofsession and you just have that
big wave of aloneness sort of hit you.
So being able to even just have those little moments as you're
passing each other in the hallway and then coming together
for lunch really helps break up that loneliness, I think.
(02:37):
Yeah, yeah. Beautiful.
So today I've invited you here to talk all about ADHD.
I feel like it's popping up everywhere at the moment.
A lot of celebrities are coming out and saying that they have
been diagnosed later in life with ADHD.
A lot of my friends and a lot ofmy clients, they're kind of
going through this, this tricky to navigate scenario of wait, as
(03:00):
a child I didn't have it. Why do I have it now?
So thank you so much for coming.I think it's really topical and
really important. Can you explain to us just ADHD
one O 1 what is it? Yes, yeah, great question.
It's gone through a few iterations in the last couple of
years or maybe the last 10 years.
So it was called ADD and ADHD for a while, but now we just
(03:23):
have a blanket term of ADHD, which for attention deficit and
hyperactivity disorder, which iskind of a silly name for it
because it's not necessarily that ADHD is have a deficit or a
lack of attention, but rather they have too much and struggle
to keep it on the things that they want to keep it on.
There are three different types of ADHD broadly.
(03:45):
So there's the hyperactive or impulsive type.
This is kind of the type that I think people picture when they
think of ADHD, right? So it's the little kid that's
jumping off the walls and can't sit still in school.
And that's predominantly where alot of the diagnosis went for a
really long time. So we also didn't used to think
that women could have ADHD. So it was a lot of little boys
(04:05):
getting that early diagnosis. The second type of ADHD is the
inattentive, predominantly inattentive type.
So this is a lot more of difficulty with focusing,
organizing and managing tasks. Often there's something that
I've kind of, I called tasks snowballing that can happen,
which is maybe you start one thing, so you start washing the
dishes or something like that. And then you look over and you
(04:26):
see like, oh, it needs to be taken out.
So you stop halfway and then youwalk over to the bin and you're
tying up the bin and then you'relike, oh man, there's so much
dust in the floor. I, I need to vacuum.
So you go pick up the vacuum andthat goes on and on and on and
you realize that you've got all of these half finished tasks and
then suddenly you're like to getto work because you haven't kept
to time. So it can be really distressing
(04:46):
to have the inattentive type as well.
The third type is really just a combination of the two, so a mix
of those two symptoms. One set of symptoms that seems
to be underrepresented or under diagnosed is that the
hyperactivity isn't necessarily just physical hyperactive
symptoms, so the jitteriness or bouncing off the walls, but it
can also be verbal. So that can be things like
(05:10):
interrupting others or finishingpeople's sentences or just
really struggling to stop talking.
So those symptoms are being picked up on a lot more more
recently. What about males and females?
Does it typically present differently in different
genders? That's a really good question.
I think short answer is yes, butI'd love to give a little bit of
an analogy that one of my colleagues has gifted to me a
(05:32):
few weeks ago, which is if you think of an person with ADHD as
like a a stove, and a stove has all of the different dials that
you can turn up to different levels.
So some are off completely, someare really low, some are really
high, some are in the middle. If you think of those dials as
like different symptoms of ADHD.So 1 might be difficulty with
focusing or one might be the sensory sensitivities that come
(05:55):
with ADHD, which can be, you know, difficulty with loud
noises and bright lights. 1 might be the verbal kind of word
vomit, not being able to stop talking.
And each person is going to havea different level of of those
symptoms. But to answer your question
about the gender differences, there are gender differences,
but there might be other reasonsfor that going on rather than it
(06:17):
being something that's biologically determined.
For example, I think if we consider the boys will be boys
kind of analogies that boys are given in at a young age, they
might be more allowed or it might be more acceptable for
them to be bouncing off the walls and to have a lot of
energy. Whereas for women, I think we
get taught at a really young ageto suppress that kind of
(06:39):
behavior and to be good and to be quiet.
So there might have been a number of young people who,
young women specifically, who had those more hyperactive
symptoms and difficulties, but the, I guess the impact of their
gender role might have made themsuppress it and have to adapt
and mask a lot more than maybe boys had to.
(06:59):
So now we're seeing a really bigwave of unmasking in adult women
where they're realizing, like, Ido have all these difficulties
and actually is really hard, butI just spend so much energy in
my day trying to suppress that and keep it under control.
Yeah. So is ADHD something that you're
born with, or does it develop over time because of our
(07:20):
environment and our circumstances?
So it's a neurodevelopmental disorder, which means we're born
with it. So a lot, any kind of
neurodivergence is something that we're born with, including
autism spectrum disorder and things like that.
In terms of how it can change over time, it certainly can, but
most likely for a number of environmental and lifestyle
reasons. So in childhood, we might
(07:42):
experience certain symptoms in abig away because we're stuck in
school and it's really hard to sit there and focus.
And then in adulthood, we have anumber of other stresses that
can come about, like relationships and financial
issues and careers and things like that.
So the symptoms of the things that we might struggle with
might start to shift and change over time as a result of those
(08:04):
other kinds of pressures. I feel like for some celebrities
that have come out recently and said, hey, I've recently been
diagnosed with ADHD, they're wearing it like a badge of honor
in in a way, and there's a lot of superpowers there that come
with it. Is it harmful or not harmful to
kind of glorify ADHD? Like I feel like recently I've
(08:26):
been thinking, oh, do I want to be diagnosed with ADHD?
Is it a, a good thing? Like can we talk about that a
little bit? Yeah, that's a really good
question. And I think to be honest, the
answers are going to vary in thecommunity.
So it's kind of important for meto probably note that early on
that I might have a certain ideaor opinion around it and other
people might not agree with it. But when we talk about ADHD
(08:49):
being like a superpower, I thinkthat can be difficult for some
people because it is a disorder at the end of the day.
And it it does present with a number of really debilitating
difficulties alongside it. So as well as all of those
symptoms that we experience on aday-to-day basis, it's kind of
like having the outside lane through the same race as
everyone else. And so, yeah, we might get to
(09:11):
the finish line, you know, even at the same time as others, but
the work and the effort and likeI was talking about before, the
the energy that gets put into running that race is
significantly more. So it's important to kind of
note that at the same time, I think if the world was made to
benefit people with ADHD, we would see an incredible benefit
(09:34):
coming from things like hyperfocus, which is the ability
to almost like dopamine dump on something that's really
interesting and really engaging and just absolutely smash
something out. So being able to focus for hours
and hours and hours on somethingthat's really interesting.
So when we think about, yes, celebrities or people and the
public eye, I suppose a lot of them might be creative.
(09:57):
They might be working in these high pressure, fast-paced
environments where we are actually going to see symptoms
of ADHD really thrive. So those symptoms may have
benefited them for a long time in that space.
There's so many benefits, so many sort of quote UN quote,
superpowers to come from ADHD. But it's easy for that to get
lost as this glorified idea of, you know, it's this amazing
(10:19):
thing that we have when it can be really difficult at the same
time. Yeah, let's talk about that a
little bit because I know some people on the fence of maybe I
have these traits, but I don't want to be diagnosed because of
the label. Or I've spoken to some parents
recently who think maybe they'rechildren, but again, they're
just concerned of whether a label can be harmful or helpful.
(10:42):
What are your thoughts on that? For sure, I think again,
personally and having worked with kids for a long time, a lot
of neurodiverse kids as well whoare just the best, I think that
early intervention, early diagnosis is really, really
important for a number of reasons. 1 is that, you know,
the sooner we know the better interms of the support and access
(11:05):
to support that they can have inschool.
So, you know, when they start tohit those schooling years, like
age 6, age 7, you're going to potentially start noticing if
they do have difficulties that, you know, maybe it's harder for
them to focus at school or they're getting in trouble.
They're getting corrected a lot.There's a lot of statistics, I
suppose around how children who are undiagnosed knows with ADHD
(11:27):
are going to be corrected, you know, 20,000 times more than a
child who doesn't have ADHD by the time they're like 12.
So which is really, really upsetting considering they don't
know that they're doing anythingwrong and they they have a real
difficulty in stopping themselves from being able to do
these things. So the earlier the better in
terms of getting support and having the people around them,
(11:48):
especially the family, understand what's going on for
them. So that they know that they're
not being naughty and they're not just being defiant.
Most of the time the bet actually that they're just
really struggling. And there are ways that you can
deliver information and provide support, especially at school,
so that they can sort of get through those days a little bit
easier. Especially what I see in, I
(12:08):
guess a lot of adult clients that I work with now who went
undiagnosed for most of their life.
You know, they're getting to their 20s and 30s before they're
being recognized as having ADHD.When you aren't diagnosed your
entire life and you're facing these situations of always
struggling to finish things on time, seeming like everyone else
(12:29):
around you can just do things easier than you being corrected,
maybe getting in trouble, you create a system of understanding
to make sense of that because that's all we want to do as
humans is try and figure out whyam I the way that I am and why
do things feel like this for me.And if you don't have any other
tangible reason like a disorder that you can't help, you're
(12:52):
going to turn that lens inwards and say there's something wrong
with me. There's something wrong with my
ability to do things compared toother people.
And so I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough.
You know, I, I don't know how todo these things like everyone
else. And so I'm not even going to
try. So I have so many beautiful
people sitting on my couch in myoffice saying these things, even
(13:15):
though they are some of the mostincredibly capable, incredibly
intelligent, empathetic people who really have so much
potential. But because they didn't know
that they had these difficulties, they thought it
was their fault. And so they don't let themselves
have the opportunity now. So being able to afford that to
someone, a young person and going, hey, it's not you, you
(13:37):
know, you've got this thing thatworks against you, but let's
create a system and an environment that helps.
Just means that maybe those corebeliefs, those self beliefs,
won't develop quite so much as they seem to when we don't have
the diagnosis. That's so powerful and I'm sure
there's a lot of people listening that are thinking, OK,
you're talking to me. I feel really seen.
(13:57):
I feel really heard. If anyone's listening and
thinking that, what's the steps they should take?
So the most efficient way, at least in Queensland, it might
vary from state to state to be honest, but it would be to go to
your, if you're an adult, to go to your GP and get a referral to
a psychiatrist. Now keeping in mind this isn't
to scare people off from the process at all, but more to just
(14:19):
forewarn that it is a bit of a lengthy and stepped process.
And so we need to keep that in mind that it's not going to be a
one stop shop at the GP. So the GP will sort of ask you a
couple of questions and assess you and then pass you on to a
psychiatrist. Then the psychiatrist
appointment can. The wait here in Queensland at
the moment is anywhere between three and six months.
(14:40):
So you're waiting a little bit. You might have some measures and
some questionnaires that you need to do in the meantime.
You might also need to access your school reports if they're
available so that they can see that this has been something
that's existed over time. Because like we were talking
about, we sort of have to see evidence that this has been a
problem since you're a young person.
Otherwise, it might be indicating that something else
(15:02):
was going on in your adulthood that's more relevant.
Then we go to the psychiatrist. There's often an informant or a
family member that is able to give extra information,
especially about how you grew up.
So maybe that's a parent or a caregiver.
Again, if that's not available, it might be a partner or someone
close to you, and it's sort of between 2:00 and 3:00 sessions
(15:22):
that they're assessing if you have ADHD and if so, what type.
And then the conversation, if the client is wanting the
conversation, can go towards medication and management and
perhaps even a referral to a psychologist, someone who
hopefully specializes and works with neurodiverse people and who
can provide symptom management and help with some of the
(15:42):
executive functioning, which is that kind of Control Center in
our brain. Because even even though
medication is really helpful fora number of things, it doesn't
necessarily take away every single symptom.
And it doesn't help really at all with some of the executive
functioning symptoms, like not finding things interesting or
difficulty with managing and starting tasks.
But it does really help with focusing and keeping calm in
(16:05):
certain situations. So yeah, that process is lengthy
and you're looking at and anywhere between for the whole
thing, sort of, yeah, 6 plus months.
But if you're considering it, it's absolutely worth exploring.
Something else that's really important to know and I feel
would be remiss not to is that this is a conversation of
privilege as well. Because in Australia in order to
(16:29):
access AGP, you know, there are bulk build GPS, sure, but in
order to access a psychiatrist is a conversation around
financials and it's expensive. There's a big financial burden
in accessing these appointments,multiples of these appointments
and having the ability to get yourself there, get to
appointments. So we don't really have
(16:50):
accessible healthcare in this domain in Australia for or
people who are really strugglingwho would really benefit from a
diagnosis so. Yeah.
OK. So if someone's in that
situation and they're thinking this sounds like it could be me,
I don't have the time or resources right now to go
through the formal process. What are some things they could
do to start understanding and managing the traits that they
(17:13):
experience on a day-to-day basis?
That's a great question. I think people sort of hesitate
to do the self diagnosis thing and sure like you can't, you
can't self diagnose. It's not possible.
We need psychologists and psychiatrists to do that.
But if a lot of these symptoms resonate with you, that's valid
and that's relevant and they don't necessarily have to meet a
(17:34):
diagnosis for them to be causingdifficulties for you.
So if you have trouble focusing,if you have difficulties with
emotion regulation, which is a really big one in people with
ADHD, we really struggle to keepour cool, especially if certain
triggers get pushed. It's important to find support
and find access to information around those symptoms.
(17:54):
So that can be online communities.
It can be, even though it has its problems at times, social
media and things like that can really help with that sense of
relatability, like, oh, this works, you know, for this person
and maybe it'll work for me. We just always have to take
things with a grain of salt and know that just because it works
for them doesn't mean it's goingto work for us as well.
(18:15):
But it's important to keep trying and not just sort of have
to accept that, OK, well this isjust hard for me and so I can't
really do anything about it. There's lots that can be done.
In the best case scenario though, it would be that you
somehow can access support, whether that's psychological
therapy, counselling, or seeing a psychiatrist at some point
down the line. Let's like jump back a little
(18:37):
bit to the social media discussion.
So our environmental factors, like right now, our attention
span, I feel like almost 100% ofthe population is so short.
Is that exaggerating traits of ADHD by any chance?
That is such a good question, Ash, and I'm so glad you asked
because I do feel that more globally, yeah, we're having a
(19:01):
lot of dopamine dependence. And when I'm talking about
dopamine, that's a chemical in our brain that almost acts as a
bit of a reward centre. So if we consider social media
and the Internet and how we're constantly being given very
quick, very rapid information that's like super engaging and
super fun, we're going to get really addicted to that.
We're just wide like that. Some people more, more than
(19:24):
others. ADHD is especially have that
dopamine deficit in the brain. And that's what that's what we
think, what we understand about what goes on in an ADHD brain.
So they're going to be much morelikely to be drawn to content,
drawn to things that give us dopamine.
So, yeah, I think globally we'reseeing issues there with the
rapidity of information and a need to access information, a
(19:47):
lot of distress if we can't. And it almost acts like an
addiction. You know, if we are asked to
sort of have a detox from our phones or detox from social
media, people show symptoms of withdrawal, which is really
interesting. They get cranky, they get
frustrated, they get restless, they struggle to sleep when they
have to detox from their phone, which shows us that, yeah, there
(20:10):
is something addictive about what's going on.
And we become really reliant on on those forms of entertainment.
Yes. Is there an increase in the
number of people in the world that have ADHD or is it just an
awareness now? It's hard to say technically
(20:31):
because it's a neurodevelopmental disorder
there. There wouldn't be anything
that's increasing it from that regard because you're born with
it. At the same time, I think that
access to information, it's a catch 22, right?
On one hand I'm saying, you know, rapidity and access to
information has its problems, but its benefits are that people
can understand what the symptomslook like.
And so we are seeing a massive boom in diagnosis for sure.
(20:54):
I think clinicians as well as psychologists and psychiatrists
are becoming more skilled in identifying it in clients that
otherwise we may not have in thepast.
Because if we think about ADHD, it acts like a bit of a Venn
diagram where the circles of other disorders and other
problems overlap in a big way. If we think about anxiety
(21:16):
disorder, for example, you're going to see restlessness,
difficulty sleeping, difficulty focusing, sometimes issues with
emotion regulation as well. All of those symptoms exist in a
person with ADHD. If we look at autism, we're
going to have sensory difficulties that struggling
with the bright lights and sounds, social anxiety and
(21:36):
things like that, which can showup in anxiety disorders and ADHD
too. So it's important to note that
there is a lot of overlap with those things, but maybe in the
past we've just put it down to, oh, it's just anxiety or it's
just, you know, OCD or somethinglike that.
When there are other types of criteria that are showing us now
that we have the ability to diagnose ADHD more readily and
(21:59):
more accurately too. The other side of things, Ash,
is that the criteria was actually not written for women
at all because up until about 10-15 years ago, we didn't think
that ADHD could exist in women at all.
So it was exclusively diagnosed in men.
So now we have over 50 percent of the population that's opened
up with the ability to be diagnosed in the last 10 to 15
(22:22):
years. So we are just for that reason
alone going to see a massive boom in diagnosis, I feel.
Like our listeners are probably,yeah, their minds are expanding
so much with this. So thank you.
Is ADHD hereditary? Yes, absolutely.
We know. Yeah, if a child has ADHD, it's
very likely that they've gotten that from one of their parents
(22:45):
or someone in their family line.So what I'm seeing a lot of
actually is parents who I work with whose child maybe recently
was diagnosed with ADHD and theystart going, this feels familiar
and the things that they're seeing in their child, which
maybe are frustrating or annoying behaviours, they're
going, you know, I used to struggle with that a lot and it
(23:06):
just never got picked up, especially mums, you know, for
that reason around that it wasn't diagnosable in in women,
especially at their age. So yeah, having a lot of parents
have that realization now, whichis really wonderful for them to
be able to explore those symptoms in themselves and then
also be able to relate to their little ones too.
And understand that they're not just being naughty and they're
(23:28):
not just being defiant again most of the time, but actually
they might be struggling and that they can kind of help each
other understand that more. Yeah, I, I know a few people in
that situation and it's been really empowering and almost
like a bonding opportunity for the parent and the child.
Is it guaranteed if someone's listening and they know that
they have ADHD and they're thinking of planning a family in
(23:50):
the future, do you know what thelikelihood of their child having
ADHD is? There isn't a specific number
that's able to be quoted. Like we can't say there's a 50%
chance or anything like that. It is definitely there.
The other thing to note I guess is that for one reason or
another, people with neuro divergent tend to flock
(24:11):
together. So we find that people who maybe
even were undiagnosed with ADHD,their partner, their friends,
the people around them all happen to have some sort of
neuro spice, neuro divergent, what's going on, which is
actually really wonderful in terms of relatability and
understanding. So that again, is more of an
anecdotal thing. But if we consider how, yeah, we
(24:33):
might be more more inclined to partner out with someone who's
also neurodivergent, then their child has a greater chance,
obviously, if both sides have it.
But there's no specific number that we can put it to, no.
And then what do we need to knowif we have a friend or a partner
that has ADHD and specifically if it's a new diagnosis, how can
(24:56):
we be there for them? For sure.
I think in short, my answer would be to ask them if they
have been living with themselvesfor a long time.
They know what upsets them. They might know what triggers
them. Not necessarily everyone.
Some people's insight is stronger than others, but they
might know that you know they really struggle with sensory
(25:16):
difficulties. They don't like when you're
chewing really loudly. Next, they might really struggle
when, you know, you give them unsolicited feedback.
You know, you tell them like, ohyou know, maybe you could try
and rewrite your answers to thatinterview in a different way or
whatever it might be. I'm not speaking from experience
at all, but there might be very specific things that they're
(25:38):
aware of are a problem and are very likely related to the ADHD
for one reason or another. And this leads me to talk a
little bit about something called Rejection Sensitivity
Dysphoria, or RSD. Again, this is something that
isn't exclusive to ADHD. It can exist in other mental
illnesses like anxiety, borderline personality disorder,
(25:59):
other trauma based disorders too.
But it is this sense that we we might be particularly sensitive
to feeling like we've been rejected or someone said no to
us or we haven't done a good enough job at something.
And that kind of comes back to that set of core beliefs that
are built over time when we're not diagnosed where we go,
(26:20):
there's something wrong with me,I'm bad, I'm not good enough,
you know. So if we have any evidence from
the world that confirms that sense, it's world ending, you
know, our mood absolutely plummets.
We feel so reactive, might get super defensive as well.
So for people who are living with someone or or close to
(26:41):
someone with ADHD, knowing that that might be a particular
trigger for them is really important in helping understand
how we can deliver information or go about communicating with
this person. But yes, I think a big thing is
just just asking them, being patient, helping them write out
these symptoms and understandingthat there might be things
(27:02):
you're asking of them that are physically impossible at times.
Like asking them to focus on something that's really boring.
It's not a preference. It's not because they don't want
to or they're lazy or they're bored of it or something like
that. It's because the way that their
brain works in those moments, there is a deficit of dopamine
happening, which is the way thatwe engage with content and
(27:25):
stimulus. So there's something going on in
their brain that's preventing them from doing it.
So being really patient and mindful of that for people is is
really important. Speaking about these core values
and beliefs, is it possible to rewire those in our mind?
Do you work with clients around that?
(27:46):
Yes, definitely. It takes a lot of work, a lot of
hard work, I think, to help themunderstand that this actually
wasn't your fault and you were let down by society and by the
system because no one was looking and seeing it through
this lens that maybe there was something going on that wasn't
your fault. So like a lot of the other work
(28:06):
I do, not just within ADHD, but helping people process and
understand their experiences, especially as children, that
that really focuses on knowing that, well, if you were a child,
this wasn't your fault, right? You, you didn't mean to do these
things. You didn't mean to develop these
behaviours or actions. And in fact, they were probably
(28:28):
a survival blueprint that you had to create to cope with
whatever was going on for you around you in in the environment
you grew up in. So it's not dissimilar to that
kind of work in helping them unlearn some of those core
beliefs and forgiving their younger self for maybe not
knowing and, and mucking things up repeatedly because they
didn't have all the information.You can't finish a puzzle if
(28:51):
someone's taken 50% of the pieces from you.
So yes, that forgiveness and that unlearning process is huge.
Another part of it, specificallywith neurodivergence and ADHD,
is letting them unmask. When we talk about unmasking,
we're talking about, you know, that system and that that I
guess all those coping strategies that they've had to
(29:13):
develop over the years to adapt and to mold the society and kind
of fit in and just be acceptableto everyone around them by
helping them understand what those behaviors are.
You know, for example, you and Ihere talking, it might be the
case that for someone with ADHD,when you're talking, if I had
ADHD, it's like, OK, I need to not I need to show her that I'm
(29:34):
listening, you know, I need to keep paying attention.
I can't fiddle with my my rings or the thing.
So, you know, they've created this system to act quote UN
quote normal. And it's about helping them
understand that like, hey, let's, let's go, you know, like,
like let's get rid of some of that stuff.
Let's let go of it because maybepeople will give you a funny
look or they won't understand why you're staring at the window
(29:56):
while you listen to someone. But we're getting close and
we're approaching a society that's more accepting of that.
So it's case by case, I guess, in what the client wants to do
to unmask, but it's a big way that they can have more self
acceptance and self compassion towards themselves.
That's really beautiful and mustbe so empowering for to work
(30:16):
with people on that. If anyone's listening and
they're just going to take away one thing from this podcast
today, what would you like them to know?
I think that ADHD isn't maybe what we've thought it is in the
past. Historically, like I said, we've
had a vision of what ADHD looks like and it literally was
exclusively diagnosed in boys and men.
(30:38):
So now I suppose if the symptomsare resonating, it is worth
exploring with a health professional if you have the
means to, even if ADHD isn't thediagnosis that you end up with,
you are probably having symptoms.
If you feel, like I said before,you're having difficulty
focusing, you have difficulty with rejection or people saying
(30:58):
no to you, that is valid and important.
And it doesn't have to be ADHD for you to get help to manage
those symptoms. So definitely keep talking about
it, keep asking about it, keep, you know, gathering information
and find a health professional who you feel will listen and
understand you. Because the most important part
with seeking support for your mental health more generally is
(31:21):
that you've found someone who you're comfortable with and who
feels like safe and and understanding of you.
Otherwise you're just not going to get anywhere.
So yeah, that's the biggest takeaway I think.
Beautiful. And it's so nice that you're
able to give that to your clients.
But what do you do for yourself when life gets really crazy
busy? What's your favorite way to
reset? Yes.
(31:43):
So one of my wonderful clients gave me a term called home
basing, which is actually what inspired the name of the clinic
that I opened this year. And so for me, home basing just
means really reconnecting with the basics because for sure,
like it can really get on top ofyou, especially running to
businesses and trying to keep ontop of like my fitness and my
(32:06):
social life and my partner and all of those things.
So yeah, home basing, I suppose just means stripping everything
back down, not spending as much time on my phone.
I think that's a really big partof it as well.
And reconnecting with sleeping, eating really well, moving my
body, doing mindfulness and gratitude and things like that.
(32:26):
And then I always find sometimesit takes a couple of days,
sometimes takes a couple of weeks of taking this time to
slow things down. But I always find that ends up
being a reset. It's hard to talk ourselves into
it sometimes when we're on a roll, especially with work that
we're just like, no, I've just got to keep going and I really
need to see these clients and they really need me today.
And you can get really bogged down in this sense of urgency to
(32:49):
keep doing more and keep pushing.
But we will stop whether we likeit or not.
Either burnout will stop us or we stop ourselves.
Those are the only two options. So yeah, home basing is how I
reset and get ready to keep moving forward.
Okay, I feel like we all have some homework today of working
out what is our version of a home base and even just jotting
(33:11):
it down so that in those times of the chaos we can look at how
do we just come home to ourselves?
That's awesome. Yeah, totally.
Is there a book that has had a really beautiful, positive
impact on your life? Yes, there's so many, but one
that I read a couple of years ago, maybe last year in my
wonderful Girls book club was called Tuesdays with Maury.
(33:34):
It's by an author named Mitch Album and he it's honestly one
of the most impactful books I'veever read.
It's about Mitch Album's visits with his former professor, whose
name was Maury Schwartz, during the last few months of his life.
So he was, he was diagnosed witha terminal illness.
And each Tuesday he goes over toat Murray and they discussed
(33:55):
life's biggest questions like love and work and family and how
to forgive people over your years.
And just Murray's reflections onmortality and facing that really
highlights the importance of compassion and connecting with
other people. And that massively influenced
me. So there's a few pages that I
sort of have earmarked throughout that book and some
(34:17):
sections that I have highlightedthat I suppose during the home
basing kind of moments or just times where I need to really
recalibrate and figure out what are my values here, What's
important to me? What do I need to be focusing on
to reconnect with myself. I kind of flip open those pages
of that book and it really helps.
So it's a life change. It's very short for people with
(34:37):
short attention spans know that it's, it's not a long book at
all, but you'll fly through it in a couple of hours if if you
feel about it the way that I did.
So yeah. That sounds like you're really
good, and I haven't read it yet,but I want to.
We'll put the link in the show notes so that everyone can find
it. And Speaking of links and show
notes and all those good things,Ali, it's been so lovely to have
(34:58):
you on the podcast. How can people learn more about
you? How can they find you online?
Sure Instagram, you know Speaking of social media, I have
websites for both congruence psychology and home based
therapy collective. If anyone's interested in
reaching out, you can do it by e-mail through my website as
well. I also have expression of
interest forms on my website andI'm so open to connecting with
(35:21):
other health professionals or professionals in the space
because again, we really need toprioritize connection in what we
do and sharing of information and learning from one another.
There is no such thing as an expert in anyone space in in my
opinion. You know, people can know a lot
about a lot, but I guarantee that if you spend time with
(35:42):
someone for long enough, you're going to learn something from
them. So I, I would love to meet more
people. So yeah, any way you want to
connect with me, that would be great.
Oh, magic. OK, Ali, thank you.
This has been such a eye opening, empowering, beautiful
conversation. And I feel like a lot of people
are going to come away feeling very seen and heard from this.
So thank you so much for being on the Reset podcast.
(36:04):
Thanks for having me Ash, it's been awesome.
Hey and welcome back to Reset. I am your host Ash Cam.
This week I am actually going tobe re sharing an episode with
you that had some beautiful ripple effects across the entire
reset community. I received so many voice notes,
DMS, comments on this episode for women that went through
their entire schooling journey feeling like they were just on a
(00:24):
different wavelength to everyoneelse around them.
And when this episode came out, they were like, Ash, did you
record that specifically for me?I feel so seen.
I feel so heard. I've gone and booked an
appointment with Ali or another local psychologist, or I've just
started to understand myself differently.
So the episode that we're going to be replaying today is one
that was an interview with psychologist Ali.
(00:45):
And we're talking about all things ADHD, specifically around
ADHD in women. Enjoy Ali, Welcome to the Reset
podcast. Thank you.
I'm so excited to be here. I've been following along with
you for a little while now, so this just felt like the perfect
opportunity to meet. Yes, well, some of our reset
(01:09):
community are probably already following you online, but for
those who don't, can you just introduce yourself?
Sure. My name's Ali.
I'm a clinical psychologist based up in Brisbane.
I mostly work with a lot of highachievers, which is maybe why
there's a nice little Venn diagram of our followers, a lot
of women who struggle with perfectionism and burnout, and a
(01:32):
lot of ADHD clients as well. I work in solo private practice,
which is where my business Congruence was born.
And I also opened a shared spacecalled Home Based Therapy
Collective, which is for a lot of allied health to kind of come
together and be under this one little tin roof of a
Queenslander in Paddington. But we can still feel connected
(01:52):
and, and empower each other to work for ourselves.
And I just wanted to create a space that really gives back to
the allied health community because it's tricky to find
that, yeah. That sounds really beautiful and
I know a lot of allied health practitioners do work alone,
which can be quite lonely and isolating.
Yeah, for sure. And that was one of the primary
reasons for wanting to open homeBase because it's so hard to do
(02:16):
what we do. I think especially as
psychologists, it's a lot to hold and then to kind of the the
client leaves and to come out ofsession and you just have that
big wave of aloneness sort of hit you.
So being able to even just have those little moments as you're
passing each other in the hallway and then coming together
for lunch really helps break up that loneliness, I think.
(02:37):
Yeah, yeah. Beautiful.
So today I've invited you here to talk all about ADHD.
I feel like it's popping up everywhere at the moment.
A lot of celebrities are coming out and saying that they have
been diagnosed later in life with ADHD.
A lot of my friends and a lot ofmy clients, they're kind of
going through this, this tricky to navigate scenario of wait, as
(03:00):
a child I didn't have it. Why do I have it now?
So thank you so much for coming.I think it's really topical and
really important. Can you explain to us just ADHD
one O 1 what is it? Yes, yeah, great question.
It's gone through a few iterations in the last couple of
years or maybe the last 10 years.
So it was called ADD and ADHD for a while, but now we just
(03:23):
have a blanket term of ADHD, which for attention deficit and
hyperactivity disorder, which iskind of a silly name for it
because it's not necessarily that ADHD is have a deficit or a
lack of attention, but rather they have too much and struggle
to keep it on the things that they want to keep it on.
There are three different types of ADHD broadly.
(03:45):
So there's the hyperactive or impulsive type.
This is kind of the type that I think people picture when they
think of ADHD, right? So it's the little kid that's
jumping off the walls and can't sit still in school.
And that's predominantly where alot of the diagnosis went for a
really long time. So we also didn't used to think
that women could have ADHD. So it was a lot of little boys
(04:05):
getting that early diagnosis. The second type of ADHD is the
inattentive, predominantly inattentive type.
So this is a lot more of difficulty with focusing,
organizing and managing tasks. Often there's something that
I've kind of, I called tasks snowballing that can happen,
which is maybe you start one thing, so you start washing the
dishes or something like that. And then you look over and you
(04:26):
see like, oh, it needs to be taken out.
So you stop halfway and then youwalk over to the bin and you're
tying up the bin and then you'relike, oh man, there's so much
dust in the floor. I, I need to vacuum.
So you go pick up the vacuum andthat goes on and on and on and
you realize that you've got all of these half finished tasks and
then suddenly you're like to getto work because you haven't kept
to time. So it can be really distressing
(04:46):
to have the inattentive type as well.
The third type is really just a combination of the two, so a mix
of those two symptoms. One set of symptoms that seems
to be underrepresented or under diagnosed is that the
hyperactivity isn't necessarily just physical hyperactive
symptoms, so the jitteriness or bouncing off the walls, but it
can also be verbal. So that can be things like
(05:10):
interrupting others or finishingpeople's sentences or just
really struggling to stop talking.
So those symptoms are being picked up on a lot more more
recently. What about males and females?
Does it typically present differently in different
genders? That's a really good question.
I think short answer is yes, butI'd love to give a little bit of
an analogy that one of my colleagues has gifted to me a
(05:32):
few weeks ago, which is if you think of an person with ADHD as
like a a stove, and a stove has all of the different dials that
you can turn up to different levels.
So some are off completely, someare really low, some are really
high, some are in the middle. If you think of those dials as
like different symptoms of ADHD.So 1 might be difficulty with
focusing or one might be the sensory sensitivities that come
(05:55):
with ADHD, which can be, you know, difficulty with loud
noises and bright lights. 1 might be the verbal kind of word
vomit, not being able to stop talking.
And each person is going to havea different level of of those
symptoms. But to answer your question
about the gender differences, there are gender differences,
but there might be other reasonsfor that going on rather than it
(06:17):
being something that's biologically determined.
For example, I think if we consider the boys will be boys
kind of analogies that boys are given in at a young age, they
might be more allowed or it might be more acceptable for
them to be bouncing off the walls and to have a lot of
energy. Whereas for women, I think we
get taught at a really young ageto suppress that kind of
(06:39):
behavior and to be good and to be quiet.
So there might have been a number of young people who,
young women specifically, who had those more hyperactive
symptoms and difficulties, but the, I guess the impact of their
gender role might have made themsuppress it and have to adapt
and mask a lot more than maybe boys had to.
(06:59):
So now we're seeing a really bigwave of unmasking in adult women
where they're realizing, like, Ido have all these difficulties
and actually is really hard, butI just spend so much energy in
my day trying to suppress that and keep it under control.
Yeah. So is ADHD something that you're
born with, or does it develop over time because of our
(07:20):
environment and our circumstances?
So it's a neurodevelopmental disorder, which means we're born
with it. So a lot, any kind of
neurodivergence is something that we're born with, including
autism spectrum disorder and things like that.
In terms of how it can change over time, it certainly can, but
most likely for a number of environmental and lifestyle
reasons. So in childhood, we might
(07:42):
experience certain symptoms in abig away because we're stuck in
school and it's really hard to sit there and focus.
And then in adulthood, we have anumber of other stresses that
can come about, like relationships and financial
issues and careers and things like that.
So the symptoms of the things that we might struggle with
might start to shift and change over time as a result of those
(08:04):
other kinds of pressures. I feel like for some celebrities
that have come out recently and said, hey, I've recently been
diagnosed with ADHD, they're wearing it like a badge of honor
in in a way, and there's a lot of superpowers there that come
with it. Is it harmful or not harmful to
kind of glorify ADHD? Like I feel like recently I've
(08:26):
been thinking, oh, do I want to be diagnosed with ADHD?
Is it a, a good thing? Like can we talk about that a
little bit? Yeah, that's a really good
question. And I think to be honest, the
answers are going to vary in thecommunity.
So it's kind of important for meto probably note that early on
that I might have a certain ideaor opinion around it and other
people might not agree with it. But when we talk about ADHD
(08:49):
being like a superpower, I thinkthat can be difficult for some
people because it is a disorder at the end of the day.
And it it does present with a number of really debilitating
difficulties alongside it. So as well as all of those
symptoms that we experience on aday-to-day basis, it's kind of
like having the outside lane through the same race as
everyone else. And so, yeah, we might get to
(09:11):
the finish line, you know, even at the same time as others, but
the work and the effort and likeI was talking about before, the
the energy that gets put into running that race is
significantly more. So it's important to kind of
note that at the same time, I think if the world was made to
benefit people with ADHD, we would see an incredible benefit
(09:34):
coming from things like hyperfocus, which is the ability
to almost like dopamine dump on something that's really
interesting and really engaging and just absolutely smash
something out. So being able to focus for hours
and hours and hours on somethingthat's really interesting.
So when we think about, yes, celebrities or people and the
public eye, I suppose a lot of them might be creative.
(09:57):
They might be working in these high pressure, fast-paced
environments where we are actually going to see symptoms
of ADHD really thrive. So those symptoms may have
benefited them for a long time in that space.
There's so many benefits, so many sort of quote UN quote,
superpowers to come from ADHD. But it's easy for that to get
lost as this glorified idea of, you know, it's this amazing
(10:19):
thing that we have when it can be really difficult at the same
time. Yeah, let's talk about that a
little bit because I know some people on the fence of maybe I
have these traits, but I don't want to be diagnosed because of
the label. Or I've spoken to some parents
recently who think maybe they'rechildren, but again, they're
just concerned of whether a label can be harmful or helpful.
(10:42):
What are your thoughts on that? For sure, I think again,
personally and having worked with kids for a long time, a lot
of neurodiverse kids as well whoare just the best, I think that
early intervention, early diagnosis is really, really
important for a number of reasons. 1 is that, you know,
the sooner we know the better interms of the support and access
(11:05):
to support that they can have inschool.
So, you know, when they start tohit those schooling years, like
age 6, age 7, you're going to potentially start noticing if
they do have difficulties that, you know, maybe it's harder for
them to focus at school or they're getting in trouble.
They're getting corrected a lot.There's a lot of statistics, I
suppose around how children who are undiagnosed knows with ADHD
(11:27):
are going to be corrected, you know, 20,000 times more than a
child who doesn't have ADHD by the time they're like 12.
So which is really, really upsetting considering they don't
know that they're doing anythingwrong and they they have a real
difficulty in stopping themselves from being able to do
these things. So the earlier the better in
terms of getting support and having the people around them,
(11:48):
especially the family, understand what's going on for
them. So that they know that they're
not being naughty and they're not just being defiant.
Most of the time the bet actually that they're just
really struggling. And there are ways that you can
deliver information and provide support, especially at school,
so that they can sort of get through those days a little bit
easier. Especially what I see in, I
(12:08):
guess a lot of adult clients that I work with now who went
undiagnosed for most of their life.
You know, they're getting to their 20s and 30s before they're
being recognized as having ADHD.When you aren't diagnosed your
entire life and you're facing these situations of always
struggling to finish things on time, seeming like everyone else
(12:29):
around you can just do things easier than you being corrected,
maybe getting in trouble, you create a system of understanding
to make sense of that because that's all we want to do as
humans is try and figure out whyam I the way that I am and why
do things feel like this for me.And if you don't have any other
tangible reason like a disorder that you can't help, you're
(12:52):
going to turn that lens inwards and say there's something wrong
with me. There's something wrong with my
ability to do things compared toother people.
And so I'm not good enough. I'm not smart enough.
You know, I, I don't know how todo these things like everyone
else. And so I'm not even going to
try. So I have so many beautiful
people sitting on my couch in myoffice saying these things, even
(13:15):
though they are some of the mostincredibly capable, incredibly
intelligent, empathetic people who really have so much
potential. But because they didn't know
that they had these difficulties, they thought it
was their fault. And so they don't let themselves
have the opportunity now. So being able to afford that to
someone, a young person and going, hey, it's not you, you
(13:37):
know, you've got this thing thatworks against you, but let's
create a system and an environment that helps.
Just means that maybe those corebeliefs, those self beliefs,
won't develop quite so much as they seem to when we don't have
the diagnosis. That's so powerful and I'm sure
there's a lot of people listening that are thinking, OK,
you're talking to me. I feel really seen.
(13:57):
I feel really heard. If anyone's listening and
thinking that, what's the steps they should take?
So the most efficient way, at least in Queensland, it might
vary from state to state to be honest, but it would be to go to
your, if you're an adult, to go to your GP and get a referral to
a psychiatrist. Now keeping in mind this isn't
to scare people off from the process at all, but more to just
(14:19):
forewarn that it is a bit of a lengthy and stepped process.
And so we need to keep that in mind that it's not going to be a
one stop shop at the GP. So the GP will sort of ask you a
couple of questions and assess you and then pass you on to a
psychiatrist. Then the psychiatrist
appointment can. The wait here in Queensland at
the moment is anywhere between three and six months.
(14:40):
So you're waiting a little bit. You might have some measures and
some questionnaires that you need to do in the meantime.
You might also need to access your school reports if they're
available so that they can see that this has been something
that's existed over time. Because like we were talking
about, we sort of have to see evidence that this has been a
problem since you're a young person.
Otherwise, it might be indicating that something else
(15:02):
was going on in your adulthood that's more relevant.
Then we go to the psychiatrist. There's often an informant or a
family member that is able to give extra information,
especially about how you grew up.
So maybe that's a parent or a caregiver.
Again, if that's not available, it might be a partner or someone
close to you, and it's sort of between 2:00 and 3:00 sessions
(15:22):
that they're assessing if you have ADHD and if so, what type.
And then the conversation, if the client is wanting the
conversation, can go towards medication and management and
perhaps even a referral to a psychologist, someone who
hopefully specializes and works with neurodiverse people and who
can provide symptom management and help with some of the
(15:42):
executive functioning, which is that kind of Control Center in
our brain. Because even even though
medication is really helpful fora number of things, it doesn't
necessarily take away every single symptom.
And it doesn't help really at all with some of the executive
functioning symptoms, like not finding things interesting or
difficulty with managing and starting tasks.
But it does really help with focusing and keeping calm in
(16:05):
certain situations. So yeah, that process is lengthy
and you're looking at and anywhere between for the whole
thing, sort of, yeah, 6 plus months.
But if you're considering it, it's absolutely worth exploring.
Something else that's really important to know and I feel
would be remiss not to is that this is a conversation of
privilege as well. Because in Australia in order to
(16:29):
access AGP, you know, there are bulk build GPS, sure, but in
order to access a psychiatrist is a conversation around
financials and it's expensive. There's a big financial burden
in accessing these appointments,multiples of these appointments
and having the ability to get yourself there, get to
appointments. So we don't really have
(16:50):
accessible healthcare in this domain in Australia for or
people who are really strugglingwho would really benefit from a
diagnosis so. Yeah.
OK. So if someone's in that
situation and they're thinking this sounds like it could be me,
I don't have the time or resources right now to go
through the formal process. What are some things they could
do to start understanding and managing the traits that they
(17:13):
experience on a day-to-day basis?
That's a great question. I think people sort of hesitate
to do the self diagnosis thing and sure like you can't, you
can't self diagnose. It's not possible.
We need psychologists and psychiatrists to do that.
But if a lot of these symptoms resonate with you, that's valid
and that's relevant and they don't necessarily have to meet a
(17:34):
diagnosis for them to be causingdifficulties for you.
So if you have trouble focusing,if you have difficulties with
emotion regulation, which is a really big one in people with
ADHD, we really struggle to keepour cool, especially if certain
triggers get pushed. It's important to find support
and find access to information around those symptoms.
(17:54):
So that can be online communities.
It can be, even though it has its problems at times, social
media and things like that can really help with that sense of
relatability, like, oh, this works, you know, for this person
and maybe it'll work for me. We just always have to take
things with a grain of salt and know that just because it works
for them doesn't mean it's goingto work for us as well.
(18:15):
But it's important to keep trying and not just sort of have
to accept that, OK, well this isjust hard for me and so I can't
really do anything about it. There's lots that can be done.
In the best case scenario though, it would be that you
somehow can access support, whether that's psychological
therapy, counselling, or seeing a psychiatrist at some point
down the line. Let's like jump back a little
(18:37):
bit to the social media discussion.
So our environmental factors, like right now, our attention
span, I feel like almost 100% ofthe population is so short.
Is that exaggerating traits of ADHD by any chance?
That is such a good question, Ash, and I'm so glad you asked
because I do feel that more globally, yeah, we're having a
(19:01):
lot of dopamine dependence. And when I'm talking about
dopamine, that's a chemical in our brain that almost acts as a
bit of a reward centre. So if we consider social media
and the Internet and how we're constantly being given very
quick, very rapid information that's like super engaging and
super fun, we're going to get really addicted to that.
We're just wide like that. Some people more, more than
(19:24):
others. ADHD is especially have that
dopamine deficit in the brain. And that's what that's what we
think, what we understand about what goes on in an ADHD brain.
So they're going to be much morelikely to be drawn to content,
drawn to things that give us dopamine.
So, yeah, I think globally we'reseeing issues there with the
rapidity of information and a need to access information, a
(19:47):
lot of distress if we can't. And it almost acts like an
addiction. You know, if we are asked to
sort of have a detox from our phones or detox from social
media, people show symptoms of withdrawal, which is really
interesting. They get cranky, they get
frustrated, they get restless, they struggle to sleep when they
have to detox from their phone, which shows us that, yeah, there
(20:10):
is something addictive about what's going on.
And we become really reliant on on those forms of entertainment.
Yes. Is there an increase in the
number of people in the world that have ADHD or is it just an
awareness now? It's hard to say technically
(20:31):
because it's a neurodevelopmental disorder
there. There wouldn't be anything
that's increasing it from that regard because you're born with
it. At the same time, I think that
access to information, it's a catch 22, right?
On one hand I'm saying, you know, rapidity and access to
information has its problems, but its benefits are that people
can understand what the symptomslook like.
And so we are seeing a massive boom in diagnosis for sure.
(20:54):
I think clinicians as well as psychologists and psychiatrists
are becoming more skilled in identifying it in clients that
otherwise we may not have in thepast.
Because if we think about ADHD, it acts like a bit of a Venn
diagram where the circles of other disorders and other
problems overlap in a big way. If we think about anxiety
(21:16):
disorder, for example, you're going to see restlessness,
difficulty sleeping, difficulty focusing, sometimes issues with
emotion regulation as well. All of those symptoms exist in a
person with ADHD. If we look at autism, we're
going to have sensory difficulties that struggling
with the bright lights and sounds, social anxiety and
(21:36):
things like that, which can showup in anxiety disorders and ADHD
too. So it's important to note that
there is a lot of overlap with those things, but maybe in the
past we've just put it down to, oh, it's just anxiety or it's
just, you know, OCD or somethinglike that.
When there are other types of criteria that are showing us now
that we have the ability to diagnose ADHD more readily and
(21:59):
more accurately too. The other side of things, Ash,
is that the criteria was actually not written for women
at all because up until about 10-15 years ago, we didn't think
that ADHD could exist in women at all.
So it was exclusively diagnosed in men.
So now we have over 50 percent of the population that's opened
up with the ability to be diagnosed in the last 10 to 15
(22:22):
years. So we are just for that reason
alone going to see a massive boom in diagnosis, I feel.
Like our listeners are probably,yeah, their minds are expanding
so much with this. So thank you.
Is ADHD hereditary? Yes, absolutely.
We know. Yeah, if a child has ADHD, it's
very likely that they've gotten that from one of their parents
(22:45):
or someone in their family line.So what I'm seeing a lot of
actually is parents who I work with whose child maybe recently
was diagnosed with ADHD and theystart going, this feels familiar
and the things that they're seeing in their child, which
maybe are frustrating or annoying behaviours, they're
going, you know, I used to struggle with that a lot and it
(23:06):
just never got picked up, especially mums, you know, for
that reason around that it wasn't diagnosable in in women,
especially at their age. So yeah, having a lot of parents
have that realization now, whichis really wonderful for them to
be able to explore those symptoms in themselves and then
also be able to relate to their little ones too.
And understand that they're not just being naughty and they're
(23:28):
not just being defiant again most of the time, but actually
they might be struggling and that they can kind of help each
other understand that more. Yeah, I, I know a few people in
that situation and it's been really empowering and almost
like a bonding opportunity for the parent and the child.
Is it guaranteed if someone's listening and they know that
they have ADHD and they're thinking of planning a family in
(23:50):
the future, do you know what thelikelihood of their child having
ADHD is? There isn't a specific number
that's able to be quoted. Like we can't say there's a 50%
chance or anything like that. It is definitely there.
The other thing to note I guess is that for one reason or
another, people with neuro divergent tend to flock
(24:11):
together. So we find that people who maybe
even were undiagnosed with ADHD,their partner, their friends,
the people around them all happen to have some sort of
neuro spice, neuro divergent, what's going on, which is
actually really wonderful in terms of relatability and
understanding. So that again, is more of an
anecdotal thing. But if we consider how, yeah, we
(24:33):
might be more more inclined to partner out with someone who's
also neurodivergent, then their child has a greater chance,
obviously, if both sides have it.
But there's no specific number that we can put it to, no.
And then what do we need to knowif we have a friend or a partner
that has ADHD and specifically if it's a new diagnosis, how can
(24:56):
we be there for them? For sure.
I think in short, my answer would be to ask them if they
have been living with themselvesfor a long time.
They know what upsets them. They might know what triggers
them. Not necessarily everyone.
Some people's insight is stronger than others, but they
might know that you know they really struggle with sensory
(25:16):
difficulties. They don't like when you're
chewing really loudly. Next, they might really struggle
when, you know, you give them unsolicited feedback.
You know, you tell them like, ohyou know, maybe you could try
and rewrite your answers to thatinterview in a different way or
whatever it might be. I'm not speaking from experience
at all, but there might be very specific things that they're
(25:38):
aware of are a problem and are very likely related to the ADHD
for one reason or another. And this leads me to talk a
little bit about something called Rejection Sensitivity
Dysphoria, or RSD. Again, this is something that
isn't exclusive to ADHD. It can exist in other mental
illnesses like anxiety, borderline personality disorder,
(25:59):
other trauma based disorders too.
But it is this sense that we we might be particularly sensitive
to feeling like we've been rejected or someone said no to
us or we haven't done a good enough job at something.
And that kind of comes back to that set of core beliefs that
are built over time when we're not diagnosed where we go,
(26:20):
there's something wrong with me,I'm bad, I'm not good enough,
you know. So if we have any evidence from
the world that confirms that sense, it's world ending, you
know, our mood absolutely plummets.
We feel so reactive, might get super defensive as well.
So for people who are living with someone or or close to
(26:41):
someone with ADHD, knowing that that might be a particular
trigger for them is really important in helping understand
how we can deliver information or go about communicating with
this person. But yes, I think a big thing is
just just asking them, being patient, helping them write out
these symptoms and understandingthat there might be things
(27:02):
you're asking of them that are physically impossible at times.
Like asking them to focus on something that's really boring.
It's not a preference. It's not because they don't want
to or they're lazy or they're bored of it or something like
that. It's because the way that their
brain works in those moments, there is a deficit of dopamine
happening, which is the way thatwe engage with content and
(27:25):
stimulus. So there's something going on in
their brain that's preventing them from doing it.
So being really patient and mindful of that for people is is
really important. Speaking about these core values
and beliefs, is it possible to rewire those in our mind?
Do you work with clients around that?
(27:46):
Yes, definitely. It takes a lot of work, a lot of
hard work, I think, to help themunderstand that this actually
wasn't your fault and you were let down by society and by the
system because no one was looking and seeing it through
this lens that maybe there was something going on that wasn't
your fault. So like a lot of the other work
(28:06):
I do, not just within ADHD, but helping people process and
understand their experiences, especially as children, that
that really focuses on knowing that, well, if you were a child,
this wasn't your fault, right? You, you didn't mean to do these
things. You didn't mean to develop these
behaviours or actions. And in fact, they were probably
(28:28):
a survival blueprint that you had to create to cope with
whatever was going on for you around you in in the environment
you grew up in. So it's not dissimilar to that
kind of work in helping them unlearn some of those core
beliefs and forgiving their younger self for maybe not
knowing and, and mucking things up repeatedly because they
didn't have all the information.You can't finish a puzzle if
(28:51):
someone's taken 50% of the pieces from you.
So yes, that forgiveness and that unlearning process is huge.
Another part of it, specificallywith neurodivergence and ADHD,
is letting them unmask. When we talk about unmasking,
we're talking about, you know, that system and that that I
guess all those coping strategies that they've had to
(29:13):
develop over the years to adapt and to mold the society and kind
of fit in and just be acceptableto everyone around them by
helping them understand what those behaviors are.
You know, for example, you and Ihere talking, it might be the
case that for someone with ADHD,when you're talking, if I had
ADHD, it's like, OK, I need to not I need to show her that I'm
(29:34):
listening, you know, I need to keep paying attention.
I can't fiddle with my my rings or the thing.
So, you know, they've created this system to act quote UN
quote normal. And it's about helping them
understand that like, hey, let's, let's go, you know, like,
like let's get rid of some of that stuff.
Let's let go of it because maybepeople will give you a funny
look or they won't understand why you're staring at the window
(29:56):
while you listen to someone. But we're getting close and
we're approaching a society that's more accepting of that.
So it's case by case, I guess, in what the client wants to do
to unmask, but it's a big way that they can have more self
acceptance and self compassion towards themselves.
That's really beautiful and mustbe so empowering for to work
(30:16):
with people on that. If anyone's listening and
they're just going to take away one thing from this podcast
today, what would you like them to know?
I think that ADHD isn't maybe what we've thought it is in the
past. Historically, like I said, we've
had a vision of what ADHD looks like and it literally was
exclusively diagnosed in boys and men.
(30:38):
So now I suppose if the symptomsare resonating, it is worth
exploring with a health professional if you have the
means to, even if ADHD isn't thediagnosis that you end up with,
you are probably having symptoms.
If you feel, like I said before,you're having difficulty
focusing, you have difficulty with rejection or people saying
(30:58):
no to you, that is valid and important.
And it doesn't have to be ADHD for you to get help to manage
those symptoms. So definitely keep talking about
it, keep asking about it, keep, you know, gathering information
and find a health professional who you feel will listen and
understand you. Because the most important part
with seeking support for your mental health more generally is
(31:21):
that you've found someone who you're comfortable with and who
feels like safe and and understanding of you.
Otherwise you're just not going to get anywhere.
So yeah, that's the biggest takeaway I think.
Beautiful. And it's so nice that you're
able to give that to your clients.
But what do you do for yourself when life gets really crazy
busy? What's your favorite way to
reset? Yes.
(31:43):
So one of my wonderful clients gave me a term called home
basing, which is actually what inspired the name of the clinic
that I opened this year. And so for me, home basing just
means really reconnecting with the basics because for sure,
like it can really get on top ofyou, especially running to
businesses and trying to keep ontop of like my fitness and my
(32:06):
social life and my partner and all of those things.
So yeah, home basing, I suppose just means stripping everything
back down, not spending as much time on my phone.
I think that's a really big partof it as well.
And reconnecting with sleeping, eating really well, moving my
body, doing mindfulness and gratitude and things like that.
(32:26):
And then I always find sometimesit takes a couple of days,
sometimes takes a couple of weeks of taking this time to
slow things down. But I always find that ends up
being a reset. It's hard to talk ourselves into
it sometimes when we're on a roll, especially with work that
we're just like, no, I've just got to keep going and I really
need to see these clients and they really need me today.
And you can get really bogged down in this sense of urgency to
(32:49):
keep doing more and keep pushing.
But we will stop whether we likeit or not.
Either burnout will stop us or we stop ourselves.
Those are the only two options. So yeah, home basing is how I
reset and get ready to keep moving forward.
Okay, I feel like we all have some homework today of working
out what is our version of a home base and even just jotting
(33:11):
it down so that in those times of the chaos we can look at how
do we just come home to ourselves?
That's awesome. Yeah, totally.
Is there a book that has had a really beautiful, positive
impact on your life? Yes, there's so many, but one
that I read a couple of years ago, maybe last year in my
wonderful Girls book club was called Tuesdays with Maury.
(33:34):
It's by an author named Mitch Album and he it's honestly one
of the most impactful books I'veever read.
It's about Mitch Album's visits with his former professor, whose
name was Maury Schwartz, during the last few months of his life.
So he was, he was diagnosed witha terminal illness.
And each Tuesday he goes over toat Murray and they discussed
(33:55):
life's biggest questions like love and work and family and how
to forgive people over your years.
And just Murray's reflections onmortality and facing that really
highlights the importance of compassion and connecting with
other people. And that massively influenced
me. So there's a few pages that I
sort of have earmarked throughout that book and some
(34:17):
sections that I have highlightedthat I suppose during the home
basing kind of moments or just times where I need to really
recalibrate and figure out what are my values here, What's
important to me? What do I need to be focusing on
to reconnect with myself. I kind of flip open those pages
of that book and it really helps.
So it's a life change. It's very short for people with
(34:37):
short attention spans know that it's, it's not a long book at
all, but you'll fly through it in a couple of hours if if you
feel about it the way that I did.
So yeah. That sounds like you're really
good, and I haven't read it yet,but I want to.
We'll put the link in the show notes so that everyone can find
it. And Speaking of links and show
notes and all those good things,Ali, it's been so lovely to have
(34:58):
you on the podcast. How can people learn more about
you? How can they find you online?
Sure Instagram, you know Speaking of social media, I have
websites for both congruence psychology and home based
therapy collective. If anyone's interested in
reaching out, you can do it by e-mail through my website as
well. I also have expression of
interest forms on my website andI'm so open to connecting with
(35:21):
other health professionals or professionals in the space
because again, we really need toprioritize connection in what we
do and sharing of information and learning from one another.
There is no such thing as an expert in anyone space in in my
opinion. You know, people can know a lot
about a lot, but I guarantee that if you spend time with
(35:42):
someone for long enough, you're going to learn something from
them. So I, I would love to meet more
people. So yeah, any way you want to
connect with me, that would be great.
Oh, magic. OK, Ali, thank you.
This has been such a eye opening, empowering, beautiful
conversation. And I feel like a lot of people
are going to come away feeling very seen and heard from this.
So thank you so much for being on the Reset podcast.
(36:04):
Thanks for having me Ash, it's been awesome.
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