The Truth About Friendships in Your 20s and 30s | Making Friends, Drifting Apart & Growing Together - Reset with Ash Cam

Episode Transcript
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(00:05):
Hi, welcome back to Reset. We did an episode a few weeks
ago talking about the different seasons that you go through in
your 20s and 30s. And I had the lovely
psychologist Ali here with me for that.
And based on your feedback and kind of just her and I bouncing
in the room at the time, we thought we really need to do a
second part to this where we look at friendships.

(00:25):
So, Ali, welcome back to the studio.
Thank you so much. I feel so lucky that I get to be
here for our third time. Yeah, but I think this is a
really important topic and one that I'm hearing so much about.
So yeah, I'm really keen to debrief.
Yeah, awesome. Well, I feel like it's something
that no one warns us about in adulthood, that it can be really

(00:46):
tricky to make friends. And when I was researching for
this episode, the Australian Psychological Society actually
has a start that one in four people feel lonely.
And I think loneliness can be one of those very confusing
concepts where you can be surrounded by people but still
feel lonely or isolated if you don't feel like you're actually

(01:09):
connecting with them. And so I think that's really
important to say from the start because as we go through our
twenties, 30s and I'm sure all of life, we might go through
these phases where you're like, actually I do feel lonely, but
I've got people around me. Are they just not the right
people to fill make up at this particular time?

(01:29):
So tell me, I'm sure it is important, but why is it
important that we have friends and community around us?
For sure. I think speaking on the idea of
loneliness, you're you're spot on in, in that it is something
that's more and more common amongst young people especially,
but the US Surgeons General has declared it an epidemic.

(01:51):
So it's something that is reallyaffecting our generation, the
generation above us and the generation below us as well.
So yeah, but then you're absolutely right.
Like, why do we feel like we're so connected to other people in
some ways and yet we feel incredibly isolated in others?
That's a really good point. So I think that's a good time to

(02:13):
touch on a Harvard study of adult development that looked
at, it's one of the longest running studies that we've done,
a really longitudinal one that looked at 700 participants and
the factors that led to basically a happy, healthy life.
So what things what, what thingsdo we engage in?
How do we live our lives that are strong predictors of long

(02:34):
term happiness? And they found that the
strongest predictor of happinessin old age was quality
friendships and connections. How beautiful exactly?
It's it's having people around us and strong, good quality
relationships that seem to matter the most.
And it also has found that thosewho were lonely or didn't have
those quality friendships had much worse health outcomes, much

(02:57):
worse life satisfaction outcomes.
So it affects us in physical andmental and psychological ways
more than maybe we ever realized.
From AI guess dictionary definition or a psychologist
definition like what makes a good friend.
For sure, I love that question because I think it's a real felt
sense for some people. You can feel when you're around

(03:20):
someone that makes you feel goodand you can feel when you're
around someone that makes you feel off or a little bit the
key. But I, I think if we wanted to
put some terms to it, generally I'd look at their reliability
and their consistency. You know, is this person showing
up over time, not just when things are good or when things
are bad, how emotionally available they are and attuned

(03:40):
they are to your needs and what you've got going on as well.
So you feel safe opening up about how you're feeling and
thinking and you don't feel a sense of judgment coming from
that too. Both people being mutually
invested. So putting in effort,
reciprocity. And that one's really important
to reflect on is that because sometimes we can feel like
relationships are one sided, butthen sometimes we don't realize

(04:03):
that we're also dropping the ball.
So that's something to keep in mind as well that I'll speak a
little bit more to as we go as well.
But then one that I find more and more, I think especially as
women and especially in our 20s and 30s, is that we're around
people who are supportive of ourgrowth and our change over time
as well. So what we might find is that as

(04:23):
we're moving through the different seasons, like we spoke
to on the last episode, that we find that that creates tension
between people and and can rupture friendships too.
So being mindful of how are these people showing up for me?
Are they celebrating my wins as I move and grow through life?
So be very wary of those who diminish your accomplishments or

(04:45):
try and sort of steer you away from maybe ambition or risk
taking because that could be speaking to something else.
There's a concept that I really love that you might have heard
of, which is Beware of the Fair weather Friend.
Have you heard of that? No.
Tell me no. A fair weather friend, I guess,
is someone who is great and is around and loves hanging out
with you when everything is likepeachy, when you're doing well

(05:09):
and you're thriving and you're easy to be around, you know?
So when you're happy, they're happy and you find they're
connected. So fair weather, good weather,
but then when something's wrong,they just seem to never be able
to have capacity or they just disappear.
There's also a concept that I'veheard recently called the foul
weather friend, which is the inverse.
So that's basically someone who,you know, maybe you guys have

(05:31):
bonded over mutually struggling with things or not having it
figured out or, or things like that.
And they're there for you in times of crisis.
But then when things start taking a turn and going better
for you, you find that they're just less available, less
supportive, and usually that speaking to how it feels for
them that you're no longer in the trenches with them.

(05:51):
So yeah, fair weather and foul weather friends are ones to
watch out for. I'm trying to do a bit of
self-awareness now, like am I ever playing that role in
different people's lives? And that's, that's interesting.
I think it can be an entirely subconscious thing, which is why
I kind of noted that it's it's usually something that they've
got going on. Like if we are seeing someone

(06:13):
thrive and then suddenly we're just like, I don't really get
much from this friendship anymore.
Then what were you? What were you kind of getting in
the 1st place? Right?
And it's not from a place of judge bond.
Exactly. Exactly, yeah.
And that can be on a small or a big scale.
So something to be mindful of inyourself and then something to
watch out for in the people thatyou're close to.

(06:33):
Yes, so interesting. And we live in this time where
we can have, you know, social media, hundreds or maybe
thousands of connections online.And there's the dopamine hit of
posting a picture, getting all these comments and likes and
stuff that it might actually be tricky to know who you can
message or call if times do get tough.

(06:55):
Are there any positives of social media on friendships?
Or is it all just this weird vanity world that's fake?
Like what are your thoughts on them?
I think there are definitely pros.
Like I think if we think about the efficiency of information,
it's pretty cool that we can have someone who's on the other
side of the world and we can have fairly, you know, quick up

(07:16):
to date ideals and knowledge about what like what's going on
for them and see pictures and get that imagery.
I think that's really beautiful.I think another pro that you
might experience too, but it's it's a really nice way to show
people you're thinking of them. And we can do that really
easily. We might see, you know, a poem
or a meme or a TikTok or something like that and it makes

(07:37):
us think of someone. So it's this cool way that we
can share that sense of like, I'm thinking of you in a way
that doesn't feel too effortful,you know, or too difficult.
So I think that's definitely a pro.
I think there's, there's maybe more in the, in the context of
friendships and loneliness in this topic that we're talking
about. I do think there's a lot of
detriments though, to social media.

(07:59):
Yeah, and it can be awkward too.Like, obviously I share things
on the podcast and on social media and stuff like that.
And when I catch up with friends, I'm really conscious of
not just recounting the things that I've posted of my highlight
reel because it's really awkwardif they then want to say like,
yeah, I know. Or okay, like it just feels
fake. And then I'm almost prepping in

(08:21):
my mind before I speak to good friends of like, what can I tell
them that I haven't shared publicly?
And it's a strange dance that wedo.
Totally. You took the words literally out
of my mouth. I was, I was thinking that as my
first sort of point is that it really removes the opportunity
of like, surprise and novelty. And as you know, I'm so excited

(08:42):
that you're having a bub. You know, when I first saw you
after hearing the news, I I already knew.
Yeah. And so, you know, it wasn't that
surprise of like, Oh my gosh, I'm pregnant.
Oh my gosh, that's so exciting. You don't get that real time
reaction from the people around you either.
So not only are we are we then kind of stumped of what to talk
about because it's like, oh, what did you do on the weekend?

(09:03):
I went to the beach. Oh yeah, I saw that.
You went to Caramba, right? The.
Weather was great, yeah. It was like crickets.
There's nowhere to go. So then, so then the flip side
of that is true is that we don'tget to see people's reactions to
really big things in real time. So we kind of like, well, I know
we're of everything already and we don't have to go that deep.

(09:23):
Yeah, yeah, it's so tricky. So last episode, which I will
link to it was all around different seasons in your 20s
and 30s. Put in the show notes for anyone
who missed it. But what about when your
friendship group that you've maybe been with for years
suddenly start going through different seasons?
Like I know within my friendshipgroups we've got people that are

(09:45):
moving overseas, starting businesses, having babies,
getting divorced, like going through fertility challenges,
changing careers, going back to uni.
Like literally all this stuff ishappening simultaneously, which
is great, but it can be really tricky to empathise with or like
you wanna celebrate these different things for each other,

(10:06):
but you don't necessarily know what it's like to go through
that. How do we navigate?
How do we How do we get through totally?
Yeah, I think that the relatability piece is maybe what
you're speaking to here is that once we're in a different season
to our friends, we don't necessarily have the the reason
that maybe brought you together.If you met in school, you met in

(10:26):
uni, that was like the big thingthat connected you.
And then if that goes, it's about assessing like what's
what's left underneath that. And so I think that can be
explored in a really vulnerable way with the people who matter
to you. You know, we can sort of say,
OK, well, now that we don't havethis in common, what else do we
have in common? And how do we continue to show

(10:47):
up for each other and connect? And for some friendships, that's
going to be a really cool process where we learn like, OK,
well, we, you know, we do still have common values, right?
Like we speak the same politicallanguage or social language or
whatever it is. And so we can continue to
connect there. But we might also then realize,
like, oh, OK, yeah. The fabric that held this

(11:08):
friendship together is is no longer there.
And if we are trying to save thefriendship, then there are
certainly ways to communicate that.
But it is going to be effort. And that effort is something
that people don't learn how to do because up until, you know,
we leave high school, we're justlike forced to be around people.

(11:28):
And it's not hard like you just you just didn't go to school.
And there's like a whole plethora of opportunities to
meet people and make friends. So that skill in making and
maintaining friendships is one that we have to learn in our 20s
and 30s, and it can be a really rude awakening, I think.
Yeah, especially when people start to, you know, move around

(11:50):
the world and you're in different time zones or certain
people have kids and there's sleep schedules and you can't
just pick up the phone. Even though, to be honest,
making a phone call feels weird for most of us these days.
I've got like a core group of four friends from my London
season, if you want to call it aseason.
And what we do is every Wednesday we have a group chat

(12:11):
and we send, we call it the Wednesday waffle.
We do like a little video updatewherever we are in the world and
we can send it through. And because we're all scattered,
it does come through sometimes on a Thursday or a Wednesday
because of the different time zones.
But it's just such a nice way tokind of check in with each
other, stay up to date. And we are all in different
seasons now. But yeah, I I find that is a

(12:35):
really helpful little thing to stay connected.
That's such a good one, Ash. And, and that is intentional,
right? Like it's effortful and I don't
know, but maybe there's some days we're like, oh, I've done
my Wednesday before. Yeah, sometimes it's on a
Thursday and I I say like, oh, I'm in UK time zone today guys,
even though I'm because Australia, it's like yeah.
Yeah. So I think it's about like,

(12:56):
again, not necessarily taking that as like, I don't want to do
this anymore just because some days we get delayed or we don't
feel like doing it. But remembering how you feel
afterwards is a good hint of like, is this something I should
keep maintaining? One of my best friends and I try
a different Thai place every second Thursday and for.
Whatever. OK, so wait a different Thai
place every second Thursday? It is so, but I like it.

(13:21):
It's a. Full nightly friendship date
where we just go let's try a different a different Thai
restaurant or something like that and it's just like our
mutual love of Thai food and we.Have beautiful we have.
So many other things in common, to be fair with this, but that's
one of them. So that's kind of speaking to
like finding the thing that connects you to and then, you
know, doing the catch up and having the the intentionality.

(13:43):
And there are some weeks where, you know, one of us can't do it
or, you know, maybe we're a bit rundown or something like that.
But we always reschedule and we always make sure that yeah, OK,
we're still going to do it. It doesn't just fall off the
radar, but it is effort that we have to put in at this sort of
time in our life. Yeah, and I think it can be
tricky, like with the Wednesday waffles.

(14:03):
Sometimes we'll have big news, like a friend has bought a new
house and she gave us like a house tour, and it's really
exciting. Other times I'm like, hey, I'm
going to learn how to cook potatoes in a different way.
And it's like, it feels like a really boring, mundane update.
But that's also part of life. And I think social media has
kind of tricked us into thinkinglike, unless you've got, again,

(14:26):
that highlight reel, like something big and grand to
share, like it's not worth sharing.
But that's not true friendship. Like, it's not always highlight
reels. It's sometimes cooking a
different type of potato and like, yeah, guys, you should try
this. Like, you know.
Yeah, sometimes it's just small talk.
Like it's just the small stuff that really connects us and

(14:48):
keeps, like I said, keeps that reciprocity and that
intentionality going. Because if we waited for only
when big things happen, like we'll be waiting a long time.
Yeah, you know, and there's not that many of these big
milestones, really. Like last episode, we talked
about that society's timeline of, you know, Graduate School,
potentially go to uni, get a job, buy a house, have baby.

(15:09):
There's not that many things throughout your life.
Like life is long. That's right.
And I think it speaks to sometimes we feel like we're
being boring. Like if all we've done this week
is like discover the. Potatoes.
The car Bureau over here. Exactly.
Yeah, I think it's about like just putting ourselves out there
sometimes and being like, guys, have you tried the Hot Honey

(15:30):
Bowl? Because it's yeah.
I don't know if yeah, but it's. Really.
Not yet, but I feel like I'm going to add it to my head,
yeah. And and I think that's speaking
to like this discomfort we sometimes have around like
taking these little risks, taking these little leaps of
faith because we have become very risk adverse for so many
different reasons. And the kind of rise in like a
social media and technology is, is part of that too.

(15:53):
But because we don't have the confidence, we have so much
anxiety about having those little moments where we're like,
are they gonna think I'm weird? Yeah.
Like, if I say, like, hot honey is my new obsession.
Yeah. And maybe they will and cool.
But odds are they'll be like, no.
But I've been really wanting to try it.
Yeah. And.
And so it's taking those little leaps of faith to keep those
connections alive. And embracing like out in a

(16:15):
weirdo. I think the more you get to know
anyone, the weirder they become.Yeah, but how cool is that?
Because on the surface, we're all kind of trying to be a
certain whatever. Like it's these little quacks
and things that make us truly unique.
Exactly. It's like when you go to a small
town, like if I don't know what it's like down here on the

(16:36):
coast, but when I travel up to the sunny coast where my family
is, people will just say hello to you as you're walking down
the street. You cross me, pass someone in
the beach on the beach and they're like good morning.
And if you're like a hardcore kind of like city kid or
something that's that's pretty foreign.
But when you're from those areaslike those little leaps of
faith, those little moments of just like being a bit weird or

(16:59):
being, you know, a bit out thereis the way that we connect to
people. And we've really lost that for a
few different reasons that I canspeak to.
But we've really lost those, those organic moments of
connection that otherwise would breed, you know, maybe more
friendships and, and more diverse community.
Yeah, it's so true. We're kind of creatures of our
environment and I grew up in a tiny town called Dungog, which

(17:20):
is in the Hunter Valley and population of a few thousand.
So everyone in the streets says hello to you.
And then when I was 21, I moved to Sydney and suddenly you
developed this stay with, stay alive mentality of like, you
shouldn't say hello to everyone because there might be a crazy
person that's going to follow you home.
And so like our environment, I find really shapes us as well.

(17:42):
For sure. Yeah.
I think that's a good point. Like being afraid of, you know,
looking strange. But then, you know, being in
danger I think plays a role as well.
Like, we do have to be vigilant.We do have to be mindful of
like, you know, not smiling at the wrong person or whatever it
is. But I think that that can be
inflated to a sense of now we'reso restricted and our comfort

(18:04):
zone is so small that we're thenmissing a lot of opportunities
to connect with people who couldotherwise be very safe and
lovely. When we're younger, or maybe
this is just like my personal opinion, but it kind of felt
like we were taught that a good friendship was a forever
friendship and that's that's just how it should be.

(18:25):
But is it OK to outgrow certain friends in different seasons?
I feel like we change so much throughout life, it's only a
matter of a time. Similar to a relationship right?
Like with a romantic partner doesn't necessarily last
forever, no. That's, that's such a good
point. And I think at this life stage
is probably something that's quite relevant to a few people

(18:47):
where we don't know how to end the friendships when we don't
know what is going to make them stay sustainable or stick around
as well. So we're not necessarily meant
to have the same friends for ourentire life.
I'm not saying it's strange if you're still friends with people
from high school, because a lot of people are and that's so
beautiful. But odds are those friendships

(19:07):
have had to go go through growthphases and maybe some difficult
conversations in order to stay alive and stay healthy.
And so if you're not growing through the friendships you have
or even experiencing long term friendships ending as well, then
that might speak to the the factthat we're not allowing those
friendships to evolve and we're expecting them to stay the same

(19:28):
as they once were. So that's, that's a really
tricky spot we can get ourselvesinto.
And it can also project a lot ofexpectations onto others that
just because we've been friends for a long time means that we're
meant to stay friends. And owning our own part in
friendships and in those conversations is really
important. So I can definitely talk to, I

(19:49):
guess, ways that we can open up our communication in friendships
to hopefully make them more sustainable or to address the
fact that maybe it's not a friendship that's serving us
anymore and it might need to endtoo.
We can talk about that if you like.
Yeah, let's go into that becauseI think there's probably a lot
of people that feel a certain obligation to keep being friends

(20:11):
with someone. And it doesn't necessarily mean
that that person's a bad person.But if it's no longer filling
your cup, like we all become, like it or not, pretty time poor
as we get older. And I don't like to say I'm
busy, I'm busy. But we are like, lives do get
busy. So how do we, yeah, how do we
work through that and give ourselves permission to outgrow

(20:33):
friendships? And it doesn't mean you have to
say like, you're boring, you're no longer inspiring me or
whatever, but like, how do we work through it?
I think the first question I'd like you to think about too, is
like, have you spoken to them about this?
Like that sense of like, oh, I've I've outgrown this.
Like that could well, that couldtotally be true and that could
be the reality of that situation.

(20:53):
But I think more and more we seepeople saying, OK, this
friendship's not serving me. It's, you know, those those
criteria that I was talking about before where it's like
it's not reciprocal or they're not meeting my emotional needs
and things like that. And so it's just not right for
me anymore. Have you spoken to them about
that? Have you addressed that with
them and and had a really open conversation?

(21:14):
Or have you been maybe changing your behavior, setting these
invisible hurdles that you're hoping that they see and jump
over and when they don't, you gosee, this isn't serving me
anymore. I think that's an important
question to ask ourselves when we've been in romantic
relationships as well as friendships is, you know, this
thing that I've identified that isn't working for me.

(21:36):
Whether that's that our season has pulled us apart or whether
that some of those needs aren't being met anymore, it is your
responsibility to communicate that to the other person.
It's very manipulative, whether that's intentional or not, but
it's very manipulative to pull away or to change your behaviour
in the hopes that they're going to notice and they're then going

(21:59):
to start meeting those needs because you're setting this
invisible hurdle that they can'tsee.
And when they crash through it, you go see, like I told you,
you're not kind of the friend that I need.
So it's on you to communicate ifsomething is not going well or
if you need more from the friendship.
Which is scary, I bet. Yeah, uncomfortable.

(22:22):
So I think that's the first stepin, in understanding.
Yeah. Like, is this friendship serving
me anymore? Is singing, you know, is there a
fighting chance here? And then from there, you know,
whichever way that conversation goes, it might go very poorly.
They might get defensive, or it might lend an opportunity for
for them to improve or for the relationship to strengthen.
You might also get some feedbackthen as well about like, well,

(22:43):
OK, actually you haven't been showing up for me too.
And it's like, OK. But then after that
conversation, if you're like, OK, yes, still things are not
flowing. And this, this friendship just
has had its time. Then you're going to find it's a
lot easier to accept that the friendship is over once we've
really laid that out in the open.
I think the the trap that peopleget caught into sometimes,

(23:06):
sometimes it's in their control and sometimes it's not, is when
it just disappears out of nowhere.
Whether that's their choice where they go, I'm just going to
keep my distance. It can be hard to mourn
something we don't get closure over.
Or if that happens to them wherethey have someone just ghost a
friendship all of a sudden, that's really, really hard to
reconcile with. And if that's happened to you,

(23:28):
I'm so sorry because it wasn't fair on you and you didn't
deserve to to not get a chance to to understand what happened.
And those expectations are so interesting.
And I think that, you know, you might have been friends at
school and you saw each other every day and that was just a
given. But then, you know, you might
live in different cities or something.

(23:49):
And so you can't have that dailycontact anymore necessarily.
And so just reassessing and redefining what that friendship
looks like for yourself as well as the other person just can
avoid that disappointment. Exactly.
And I think on that too, like when things are moving and
changing about and you know, theseasons have have changed for

(24:12):
the two of you in different directions.
What we were saying before aboutthe fair weather versus the foul
weather, friend, like maybe maybe you're being one of them
too. And that's OK.
We don't have to pile on ourselves and get angry at
ourselves like I've been this terrible friend.
But it's an opportunity to go like, is this distance I'm
feeling where I feel like I've outgrown them or it's not
serving me? Is this about them?

(24:32):
Or is this maybe something I'm actually struggling with?
And I'm struggling to to expose myself to the feeling I get
around this person about the fact that they're in a different
season, one that I'm not in, that I'd maybe like to be in.
So being really gentle with those self reflective
conversations as well with yourself.
Yeah, yeah. Are we ever too old to make new

(24:55):
friends? Oh my gosh, no.
I. Love.
That question, I remember when Iused to work for a youth mental
health, not-for-profit called Batia.
I had this friend at work and she would have been in her like
40s, like 40s at the time. And I was like very early fresh
20s and she was like one of my work besties.

(25:15):
I loved that. So I think she was, she would
just embrace people of all stages and all ages in, in their
lives and had this brilliant wayabout it.
So I, I don't think age comes into it whatsoever.
I think what happens in age, butI would say that more and more
it's impacting young people as well, is that there is a lot of

(25:35):
friction between being able to meet people because of the way
that we've decided to approach life.
The because of the way that social media and technology has
sort of helped us in other areas, there's now this real
difficulty in meeting people across all stages.
So the example I like to give, Idon't know if you did this when

(25:57):
you were young, Ash, but when I was a kid, if we wanted to watch
a movie on a Friday night at home, we would go down to
Blockbuster because they still existed.
And we would peruse around and there'd be other people there
that would see, you know, prettyregularly on a Friday night also
with their families, all their kids.
And then the parents would talk because it was an opportunity
for them to see them in real life.
And then we'd pick the movie. And the girl that worked at

(26:18):
Blockbuster, we knew exactly whoshe was and she knew us.
And so there was that sense of connection.
And the same goes for, you know,getting takeaways, like you'd go
down to the, the local Chinese shop and like you'd know the
family that was running the business and they'd know you.
And if we kind of zoom to like atypical Friday night for me now
is that, you know, open the Guzman app, order, order online,

(26:41):
you know, while we're scrolling through Netflix, I send my
partner to go get the order. He goes to a window where the
person doesn't speak to them. They just hand him the bag and
then he comes home and then we watch a show on Netflix.
And so that's just one really small example of, yes, that's so
efficient and it's so much easier, but it's a trade off of
efficiency for community and connection.

(27:04):
And so just because something iseasier doesn't mean that the
friction that once existed, the difficulty that once existed to
like going and getting in the movie is just only a positive.
So I think that's something that, you know, maybe older
people would struggle with more historically because they would
have less opportunities organically to kind of go out as
they lose their independence. But no, that affects us, I

(27:26):
think, more than ever for that very reason.
Yeah, good reminder. And I guess, yeah, when you
first start to talk about loneliness and friendship and
things, we think that it needs to be how many besties do I have
around? But it's that broader sense of
community, like you were saying,of like, who do I speak to when
I rent the video or pick up my take away?
And these days you go to order acoffee and it's like, oh, here,

(27:48):
order on the app or on the screen instead of in person with
the barista. And it's all those micro
interactions that actually buildcommunity on a whole.
Exactly. Should we be proactively trying
to order our coffee with the barista instead of on the
screen? Like should we be looking for
these micro moments of interaction?

(28:09):
Totally. And it's hard.
I think it's something that we can speak to with the the whole
risk taking thing that I mentioned before.
It's hard and it's uncomfortable.
And because a lot of us have anxiety, anxiety rates are
higher than ever. Those little leaps of faith in
those moments of like, I think, and I think I'm weird if I go,
how's your day going? Like coffee or whatever it is.

(28:31):
Maybe they will because it's unusual now and maybe they won't
and maybe they'll strike up a conversation and you'll have
something in common. This exact thing happened where
I went and got my nails done by this New Girl that I started
seeing near my place. And as she was doing her thing,
we were just yapping and she's like, I need a new gym to go to.
And I was like well, just the place and now she comes to

(28:51):
session every morning with us and comes on our little hot girl
walk and it's just a new friend and she does all of our now so
great for business as well. Great for business, great for
friends, Yeah. For friendship and that wouldn't
have happened, I guess, if I'd decided to sit there and sit on
my phone and scroll, which probably would have been more
comfortable. And maybe that's all I had
bandwidth for that day as well. But I chose to kind of go like,
how long you been doing this for, you know, like, and kind of

(29:13):
just show that curiosity. So being the one responsible for
that and taking ownership for, OK, I'm feeling isolated.
I don't have that many connections.
I'm going to create as many organic opportunities to connect
with people, which means like putting down the phone and
getting outside and, you know, connecting in these ways.
Yeah, and it is that muscle, like a comfort zone muscle that

(29:36):
it is so easy to just scroll on your phone and completely
disconnect from everyone that's around you.
But I think if we're looking at the stats, one in four people
are lonely. And even if you're not lonely,
it's still nice and brightens your day if you get to have an
interaction with a stranger. We should all be trying to just
have those like little micro doses of community connection.

(29:59):
And you never know when you're going to make a new friend to
come and do your nails and go tothe gym with.
Exactly, exactly. There's some people that you
speak to and it's like after lunchtime and, and you chat to
them and they're like, oh, sorry, it's you're the first
person I've spoken to today. And they're voice spoken.
Yeah, and that's not to shame them, but it's just, it's more
of a a speaking, like speaking to the fact that, yeah, like

(30:21):
they haven't spoken to anyone today and they haven't needed
to, but they may have, right. They may have been speaking to
people online and connecting in this sort of like removed way,
which I guess brings us back to what you were saying before of
like, why is it that we feel so readily connected to so many
people and yet loneliness is at an all time high?
And it's because we know that the feeling we get when we speak

(30:42):
to someone in person, the energythat they give us, the context,
the body language, like so much of communication exists in the
non verbal. And if we're then converting
that to text on a screen and filtered photos, we know it's
not giving us that same feeling that works against loneliness.
Yeah, for sure. And it's interesting you say
that like there are so many guests that I would love to have

(31:02):
on this podcast that are not in the local area.
And so they're like, yeah, sure,Asha, we'll come on and we'll do
an online interview and never say never.
I don't know what I'm going to be like in the future.
But for now, I'm like, until we can do it in person,
unfortunately we're not going todo it.
And I think like you said, that human connection that just

(31:23):
cannot be replaced by a screen or text or even a video message,
to be honest. It's getting lost more and more
and yeah, we just have to intentionally like recognize
that we need it. We're craving it, yes, and
working remote is convenient, but it's taking away these
things and like, yeah. Pros and cons of technology.

(31:45):
That's right. And, and I think the pros, yeah,
are definitely there in a post COVID world.
There's so much efficiency. There's so much, yeah, so many
benefits to being able to have the accessibility.
And there's also a very big group of people who for
physical, mental, psychological reasons, need the the comforts
of technology and need to be able to work from home.
So those provisions are amazing for those who need them.

(32:07):
But I guess it's about asking ourselves that question of what
if, if I'm able to access the outside world, if I'm able to
connect more with people in person, what is the thing that's
stopping me? And can I kind of challenge that
a little bit? Take take My backpack full of
anxiety and go, you know, speak to someone new today and see if
that makes a difference in how connected you feel to people.

(32:29):
And starting small, like we say,go and order your coffee in
person. Yeah.
And the worst thing that's goingto happen is that you're going
to say, how's your day going? And they go, good, what can I
get you? Yeah, You're like, OK, never
mind. Does.
You're all good. And that happens, like, on the
regular. I feel like for me.
And you just kind of go, oh, allright.
And every time you do it, it's exposure therapy.
It's exposing yourself to rejection.

(32:51):
Yeah. So you'll only get stronger for
it. I promise.
Maybe we should all have like a little take away action from
this episode and like smile at astranger, do something in
person, like just stretch that and see the difference it can
make. And I think it'll brighten.
Like the ripple effects of that throughout our communities are

(33:12):
probably pretty significant. Pretty massive, yeah.
And I like the idea of like flexing that comfort zone in
that small way, but then also in, in deeper and more intimate
ways of like within our friendships.
You know, I think at this point we are finding that maybe those
big friendship groups have whittled down a little bit and
we do just have these closer, more intimate friendships.

(33:34):
The average person at our age will maybe have between 2:00 and
4:00 close connections. And that can also include our
partner. And that for some people feels
really, really low. But that's, that's average and
that's normal. So I guess being more
comfortable with the idea that as we get older the number of
connections might dwindle, but strengthening them from within

(33:55):
and and getting out of our comfort zone inside those
friendships as well is somethinglike having these conversations
is something that can make it a more sustainable and long term
friendship too. I think there's a difference
between if you're living in the same city that you grew up in
and you've kind of got certain people around you that have
always been there versus moving.And this was not intentional for

(34:17):
me at all. But when I look back on my life
since I moved out of home, like every four years I would move to
a different city or country. And so it kind of created these
unofficial seasons. But the benefit of that was I
was forced in that new season, like, OK, if I'm going to be
making new friends in this city,what am I craving right now and

(34:41):
how do I show up? And how do I flex that muscle?
And it is uncomfortable. And it is asking someone to
catch up with you and maybe getting rejected or maybe they
say, no, not right now, and you have to ask again.
And because they actually did want to see you.
And it's like, it's just, yeah, putting yourself in those
positions. But if someone's listening and
they're like either moving to a new city or, or in the city

(35:05):
they've always been in. And just like, you know what?
I want to expand my friendship circle even though my day ones
are still here. How do we go about making new
friends? Are there some like key tips
that you would recommend to people listening?
I think in addition to, you know, finding those organic
opportunities and just because it's easy doesn't mean it's the
right thing to do necessarily. That would be a good one to

(35:28):
focus on. But another one that I, I don't
know, it can sound harsh, but it's don't act like the cool
girl. Like don't act like you're not
interested or you're not dorky or you're not really passionate
about things. Yeah, I think when we connect to
someone most deeply is 1, when they're being really vulnerable
and open. And that's not to say like just

(35:49):
like trauma dump on them in the Yeah, that's me.
Hey, can I have a a matcha? And also when I was 12.
Yeah, no. We're not doing that, but you
know, once, once we feel comfortable, once we have an
opportunity to get to know each other.
Being vulnerable and open is a surefire way to create
meaningful connections. That's we know that that's kind

(36:10):
of the way that people get closer and stronger in
friendship. So that's one, one thing there.
But then I guess when we see someone light up and kind of
riff about something that they're passionate about, like
I've seen that in you. And I think I see that in a lot
of other women who have their own businesses as well, where
they're like, I'm thinking aboutdoing this thing.
My God, that is like my favoritething to see in people is

(36:32):
something that they're passionate about.
And they just kind of yet go on their little Ted talk about
something that they're excited about.
But we we tend not to do that because in high school we get
the OK, calm down. Yeah, you're right.
It's like that social conditioning of like, if you
don't think something's cool that everyone else thinks is
cool, then you're ostracized back then.

(36:54):
I think. Tell me if you agree, but I
think there's like this new breed of cool, which is like
embrace. You're in a weirdo.
I think it's coming. I think it's coming.
I think younger generations are better than us at it.
And I'm sure there's some like survival instinct of like, don't
want to get kicked out of the tribe vibes.
Where you. Yeah.
But I think you're right. It's that secret source of just

(37:18):
lean in or and you never know who else might think it's
interesting. Or at least the energy that you
bring. Hmm.
To it. Interesting.
Yeah. Exactly, 'cause I think
otherwise we end up trying to bethis malleable chameleon, you
know, to everyone we meet. And that might seem like the
smart idea, and it could, it canalso come from a place of trauma

(37:40):
or, you know, difficult circumstances that have forced
people to feel like they have todo that in order to be liked or
accepted, which is, which is so sad.
But yeah, if we go into a friendship feeling like that or
or acting like that rather, that's so boring on the
receiving end. Totally, which is.
So awful to say, but it is when you're like, you just got to
give me something, give me any, any kind of sense of personality

(38:03):
because I don't want you to pretend to be interested in
things that you know, or I don'twant you to dull your light
because you think I'm going to reject you.
So for anyone who's feeling likemaybe they're the chameleon,
they're the one that's just adapting to the people there
around, play. Play a little game.
You have a little bit of an experiment where you embrace a

(38:23):
part of you and see what it doesto the connection between you
and the other person. Ultimately, if it all comes
crashing down and goes horribly wrong, at some point, you were
going to break anyway. You were going to start to show
them your real self, and they would have left you then.
But at least you know that, OK, they weren't in this friendship
for the right reasons. And moving forward, I'm just
going to be me from the beginning.

(38:46):
And then, you know, if they theydon't like it, they don't like
it. And you'll know soon.
Enough kind of magnetize the right people and it's like back
in my marketing world, it's likeif you try and communicate to
everyone, you're going to miss the mark and and resonate with
no one at all. And so it's like just speak to
your people totally. Who sticks around is great and

(39:07):
who doesn't You you probably didn't want to be friends with
them anyway. Like they were just yeah, yeah.
And don't expect yourself to feel like fine about that.
I think this whole idea of people just being like, I don't
care if people don't like me or it's fine, you know, like that.
I've only, you know, got a couple of people in my life.
I don't care if other people aren't interested in being my
friend, but you do, that's OK. We're human, like those are very

(39:33):
real emotions. Yeah, it is so uncomfortable and
awful to feel like we're not liked.
So I guess the reframe there is like, no, not everyone will like
me and some people will reject me and that will hurt and that's
also fine. And I'm allowed to kind of hold
space for that and nurture that feeling of of rejection and of
pain, and also then tune that energy in to the people who

(39:56):
coming back to what we spoke about a good friendship is, you
know, to give me those needs whoare reciprocating.
We might find we actually put a lot of energy into the people
who aren't meeting those expectations in a friendship
because we're yearning for it and we're craving it.
And then we're kind of leaving all the ones who do meet our
needs by the wayside. So that's a good opportunity to

(40:16):
go like this pain I'm feeling here in this friendship, this,
this lack of effort. Maybe if I tried to redirect
that energy over here with thesepeople who have shown up for me
consistently, I wonder what willchange, you know, and how close
I'll feel to them. Yeah, I'm, I'm hearing a lot of
parallels with dating, like in what we're talking about here,

(40:36):
right. And it's like, am I going to
love bomb this friend because I just like and craving their like
their attention and their reciprocation, but it's going to
probably have the opposite effect what we want.
And then just like in dating, not everyone's your person and
that's OK. That's actually very normal.
But in friendships, maybe we ourvision is skewed a little bit of

(40:58):
like, well, I want everyone to want to be my friend and it's
just not realistic. No, and I think the the other
point there that you kind of touched on is like having these
expectations of people that theyare going to be everything to us
all at once. That's the case for
relationships in a big way, likeromantic relationships, but
friendships like it's OK if a friend is only there one for

(41:20):
like a particular time in your life.
So like there's that quote that's like friends for a
reason, friends for a season andfriends for a lifetime.
I think I've probably got that wrong, but I think that's a
really good indicator of, you know, accepting the friendship
for what it was. You you guys have something that
connects you to you 2 together, but they might not meet your
needs in other ways. Like, they might not be the

(41:40):
friend that's like down for anything and, you know, wants to
just, like, fly to Bali on a moment's notice, but they're the
friend that comes every second Tuesday to get Thai with you
and. That's I hope that friends
listen. I hope.
She's too to Bridget, you know, because that like that
consistency and reliability is so beautiful.
And another friend might meet the needs of something else.

(42:02):
You know that you're craving to.So you get different things from
different people. You can't expect it all from
from one person. That's a good reminder.
And I'm just like, I've got, I'msure everyone listening has
different people running throughtheir minds right now, but I've
got some friends that I catch upwith and like we thrive off
talking business and growth. And then other friends are like,
teach me how to be a mom, please.
Like, completely different personality types.

(42:24):
And such a good reminder that, yeah, one person is not going to
be for us for everything, and we're not going to be someone's
everything either. Totally.
And you can't try to be no, you know, that's, that's really
exhausting. If you feel like, OK, gosh, I've
got to like run around, I've gotto do this thing because they
really want me to do it and I'vegot to show up over here.

(42:45):
Because I think what we find, especially at this age as we
start losing energy for that sort of thing, is that if you
are doing things based on what other people are expecting of
you or you think they're expecting of you, whether that's
real or perceived, they will always be disappointed.
No matter how hard you try, you will always drop the ball if
that's the reason you're doing something.

(43:07):
And that hurts so much. Whereas if we show up
authentically as ourselves and like I said from the start,
really show them like this is the kind of person that I am.
This is the friend that I am, this is the person that I want
to be with you and we still needto be.
Be open to feedback and communication like we spoke
about. But you're not going to be
burning the Kindle at both ends and then ultimately letting

(43:27):
people down because you can't keep it up forever.
Yeah, yeah. When we talk about stretching
that kind of community and friendship comfort zone and
leaning into the things that inspire us in this current
chapter, do you think it's important?
Like there's, if we really wanted to try, I think there's a
lot of different activities and groups and stuff happening at

(43:48):
all times. It can feel scary to go to
something on your own, but do you think that's a good idea?
Like stretch that muscle, go to an organised, whether it's art,
sport, run club, yoga, whatever it is.
But just like put yourself in environments where you're more
likely to meet people with shared interests.

(44:08):
And it doesn't mean you're goingto have an instant bestie, but
like if you keep showing up, it's again just enhancing the
chances, I guess the probability.
Goes up. You're right.
And I think you you named like all of the ones that were on my
mind as well. There are organized groups with
the intention of making friends because young people, the
generation below us are amazing and they're so proactive and

(44:31):
they have really lent into trying to deliberately make
friends. So there are like walks and run
clubs that are designed to, you know, bring people together who
feel lonely. But one that always surprises
me, and you might have seen as well is that if you're a part of
any community, Facebook groups. So every now and then someone
will post in one of these groupsand they'll say, hey, you know,

(44:51):
I'm new to the area. You know, I'm like a single mom
or something like that looking to make some friends.
And I always see that. And you kind of get this lurch
and you're kind of like, oh gosh, like that's, that must
have been really hard to write. And then you look at the
comments and there are so many people who reach out and go, Oh
my gosh, me too. Yep.
Like how's Thursday morning at 8:00 AM?
Like we can go for a walk, bringthe kids, like whatever it is.

(45:14):
There are so many people who show up who are also craving
that, but it's almost like 1 person needs to take the leap
and then all of these people follow and becomes acceptable.
So I think in these, in those sorts of ways to like, that's a
good example of like putting yourself out there and like
literally it's just right there and everyone can see and it's so
vulnerable, but it pays off. Yeah, like what you were saying

(45:37):
before, like, don't try and be the cool girl.
Exactly. So I'm struggling to make
friends. I'm struggling to make friends.
I think there's a real stigma about loneliness and admitting
to yourself that you might be feeling lonely or admitting to
the world. And even if we don't like using
the word loneliness, because, you know, again, that whole
tribal mentality, you don't wantto feel like you're on the adder

(46:00):
just owning it and just showing up or like, do you want to go
for that beach walk? Do you want to get a coffee
after class? And if someone says no, they say
no, but they might say yes. Yeah, exactly.
And then that time might be justa very chill beach walk where
you talk about nothing and you talk about the day.
Or it might be like, man, I had a really, really tough day.
Me and my friends go for a walk each morning along the river in

(46:22):
Newstead and it is such a fun yap.
Sometimes we're just laughing and like crying about the
funniest things. And then other days it's, it's
the real debrief of like how difficult things are.
And I just love that no matter what, we can kind of show up.
But that has taken a lot of vulnerability on everyone's
behalf to do that little leap offaith and go like, can I talk to

(46:42):
you guys about something I'm kind of struggling with and then
learning over time again and again that it's safe to do so.
So that's brave and difficult, but it's very worth it.
I think that's a really good reminder too, that again,
dating, friendships, it's all relationships with other humans,
right? It takes time.
And on your first catch up or your first interaction, you're

(47:05):
probably not going to be as close as you were with your best
friend that you've known for five years and like going
through all these shared experiences with.
And so keep showing up. 100% yeah.
That consistency and effort likethat we, we were privileged to
kind of get in high school in some ways of like the time just
passed because you all have to be there.

(47:26):
And so that closeness came really organically.
But then we expect that same closeness from the person we've
just met in our first lecture orin our new job or whatever it
is. So yeah, I think that's a really
good point of being patient and gentle.
And then ultimately, sometimes it just isn't working and it's
not kind of you're not kind of vibing with that person.
And, and that's a really good learning.

(47:48):
It doesn't have to just be a loss.
So we can reframe that into like, what did I learn from this
and what I don't want in a friendship.
And again, those that communication and that reframe
can help us accept when a friendship is over, whether
that's a short or a long term 1.Yeah, I like that.
It's just it's just data. Exactly.
It's just. Information.
Information. Yeah, yeah.

(48:10):
And then redirect to something that's going to feel better.
Exactly. I love that.
What haven't we spoken about today that you think more people
should know? Something that I think people
underestimate the power of are these small moments of
opportunities to connect with other people.
And it might not feel like it's a big deal or it's particularly

(48:32):
meaningful. But you know, when we're talking
about the world of social media and the efficiency of
communication, like sending a text that says thinking of you
can still really land, it can still really be impactful.
But you can even take those things one step further of like,
send it as a voice memo. I know it is so cringe to listen
to your own voice sometimes. Hey, as someone who has a

(48:53):
production has to listen to muzzle editor, but like you get
used to it. But yeah, it's tough.
It's. Tough, but again, this is like
embracing the inner weirdo thinglike they listen to your voice
all the time. They don't think it's weird.
So sending that voice memo whereyou're going on a little bit of
a Rambo. I love the rise of that.
I think that's something that a lot of US women are like really
embracing and just kind of just waffling.

(49:15):
But then it at the same time, sometimes it's those organic
like thinking of you, you know, what are you up to?
And then sometimes we also have to set those intentional
reminders and check in. So you can put this in your
calendar. You can put this as a goal, you
know, on your To Do List every day of like check in with a
friend, make an effort, plan something with someone.
If you're constantly making it something that you're in charge

(49:37):
of in your own life, it will benefit you.
It will come to fruition. Maybe it's not instant, but the
seeds will kind of be planted and then they'll grow over time.
But if you're sitting back and you're waiting for everyone to
prove their friendship to you and prove how important they are
to you by testing them in these kind of tricky ways, it's not
going to go well and you're going to end up isolating

(49:59):
yourself pretty quickly. Yeah, we have to put in effort,
yeah. We really do.
I think this. I think women are fairly good at
it, but I think we have all of these barriers.
I think men don't typically continue to nurture those
friendships and put that effort in because the vulnerability
piece is really difficult. We tend to find that easier even

(50:19):
though it is still hard for us. So yeah, I think there's there's
lots of big and small opportunities.
Something else I wanted to speakto as well just really quickly
is that I recently saw, I could not tell you where it was spoken
about, but there was sort of this wariness around like beware
of the catch up friends. Did you see this at all?
Oh, yes, I did, yeah. And my understanding of it was

(50:42):
that people were sort of warning, you know, that these
kind of superficial catch UPS that happen every now and then
maybe aren't actually meaningfulor deep friendships and that we
need to be aware of or be aware of.
Yeah, that that superficiality. And I really took problem with
that, I think because I find that there's just always a way
to criticize women for the things that they're doing.

(51:03):
And this is already something wefind difficult to connect with
other people. So if all the bandwidth and all
the opportunity you have is thatevery quarter you catch up with
someone and you just do a download of each others lives,
how how is there something wrongwith that?
You know, maybe that isn't as deep and meaningful as the
morning walks you go on every single morning with your

(51:24):
girlfriends and you get to talk about the INS and outs and every
high and low like that's wonderful.
But then some friendships all wehave capacity for is embracing
the quarterly catch up where we download how things been what's
been going on, how's a pregnancygoing and then see you like next
quarter. And that's okay, that's fine.
There's that's the reason that that persons in your life.

(51:44):
And if we're forcing it to be more and criticizing ourselves
that it's not more than we're never gonna win.
Yeah, I remember watching that too and it did make me sort of
think 1 positive I took from that though.
It was a reminder of like, it doesn't always have to be a
coffee catch up. Like you can plan an activity
catch up or something and createnew memories with that friend
rather than just always rehashing the past.

(52:06):
So yeah, I think it just like reminder to add some spice, yeah
to our life. Don't take something like that
just at face value. It's like you're not allowed to
just do the catch up. Like, but if you are only doing
the catch up and you're finding that's getting a bit stale or
something like that, then sure. Like use it as an opportunity to
embrace something novel and new.And we find that in romantic

(52:28):
relationships and friendships aswell.
The things that tends to keep sparks alive between people is
doing new things together. So I love that as an idea for
long term friendships. Yeah, yeah.
Something that I have found benefited me when moving around
and I've continued to then pay it forward is when I first
moved, a friend would connected me with one of their friends and

(52:51):
said, oh, you're in this new city.
I've got this person I think you'd like, you should catch up
for coffee. And that has now happened
multiple times throughout life. And I've created some wonderful
friends that way. And so then now when I know a
friend is moving to a new city and they're, you know, looking
for friends and stuff, I will set up these friendship dates

(53:13):
around the world for people. And so I think, yeah, I just
remembering that everyone is always on the lookout for new
friends. And if you can gift that to
others, like I, like I said, wason the receiving end and really
benefited. And so it's something that I now
try and do for others. If anyone's listening, like try
and set people up on friendship dates knowing that like we're

(53:37):
all craving that. Beautiful idea.
I think that's so nice to have benefited from it and now kind
of passing that on to other people.
Maybe you could even take it onestep further of like you could
ask your friends like, hey, you know, the friends that you do
have. Do you have anyone else that you
think like I would kind of get along with that you kind of set
me up with in a friendship sensebecause it might not be at the

(53:58):
front of people's minds necessarily.
But if you're listening to this and you think like, gosh, I, I
love that my friend has these really cool friends, you know,
and you see, you see them hanging out with people that you
feel like you might get along with.
Awesome. Like, Hey, could we do like a
big catch up? I'd love to connect with these
friends that you hang out with. They really seem like my people.
Yeah, something I'm really like taking away from this chat is

(54:19):
how important it is to be proactive in our life about the
things we want. Yeah, and friendship is one of
them. Absolutely.
I think that applies to so many things.
But we, we can, like I've said afew times, we can really fall
into the trap of like just waiting and expecting.
And, and so much of it is all ofit really is our responsibility,

(54:41):
whether that's communicating howwe feel to our friends, our long
term friends, if something's wrong or putting the feelers out
there and being vulnerable and open and risky, you know, to, to
make new ones, that's, that's onyou.
No one is going to do that for you.
And it's OK that it feels uncomfortable.
Be kind to yourself that it, that it's difficult and a bit
icky and, and might, you know, lead to rejection sometimes, but

(55:05):
it's still, it's on you. So keep pushing.
You got this. Keep pushing you.
I've got this. Listening to a podcast is great
and I love our listeners to feellike they're here on the couch
with us. But because we are proactive go
getting girls, Like is there kind of a challenge or a task

(55:25):
you'd love to leave us all with to go and go out there into the
world and do based on listening to this podcast today.
For sure, I think if we think about the connections that we
already have, maybe you could task yourself to reach out to
someone that you're close to anddo a little friendship check in,
you know, how are we going? Is there anything that you need

(55:45):
more from with me? Is there anything you'd like me
to be doing differently? So open up that chance of
communicating, even if things are going really well.
And maybe they'll just be like, oh, you weirdo, what are you
talking about? Like I love you and things are
great. Or maybe they'll be like, you
know what, actually, Yeah. And, and you've opened that line
of communication. So, so extend that invitation to
someone who you care about. And then maybe another option

(56:08):
would be if you're wanting, if you're on the side of wanting
to, to open yourself up to new connections, So yourself a
little challenge, maybe it couldbe smiling at strangers for a
week or something and seeing what happens.
But I would even suggest taking it one step further.
And if there is someone that you've been interacting with
that's sort of just an acquaintance right now, you
know, maybe just in your sphere,the person that makes your

(56:30):
coffee or someone that you see at the gym, someone at work that
you haven't really spoken to. Take it a little bit further.
Ask them something about themselves.
Get kind of a little bit more curious and then see if that
opens up to an opportunity to say like, oh, you know, I
actually really like doing that too.
Or I've been wanting to try thisthing.
Would you want to go together sometime?
I'll, I'll drop your follow on Instagram and we can maybe go

(56:51):
from there. So two options I guess there for
for different versions of our lives or our friendships.
Beautiful and just like just stretching ourselves just that
little bit. Just that little bit.
One hack that I love to reconnect with old friends is I
still have Facebook. I don't use it, but it, it loves
to send me like Facebook memories of photos from the

(57:11):
past. So every now and then I will
screenshot it and just text it to someone And with like just a
sentence or two. It doesn't need to be much, but
it's just like, I'm thinking of you.
Here's this little memory from the past fast.
Or like just send a photo of something that reminds me of
them. And it doesn't mean we need to
dive into a deep conversation and book a trip together.
But it's just like those little touch bases of like, sure we

(57:32):
might not be in each others lives constantly at the moment
and that's okay. Maybe we will be again in the
future, but I still love and care about you, yeah.
Yeah, exactly. That would make them feel so
special and so loved, especiallyif it's out of the blue.
And even if it's been years, that can always be a nice
surprise too. So I think that's a great idea.
Ali, thank you so much. You're welcome.

(57:54):
I hope that it's been really funand I hope that everyone
listening has just kind of like shed some of their inner wannabe
cool girl and and are gonna go out there and smile at a
stranger and, you know, start tosay hi.
And like, let's hope that we create a little bit more of
sense of community in this worldthat we're all experiencing.

(58:17):
Lonely. Totally.
Go be weird, you know, go talk to the person who makes your
coffee. Yeah.
And if they don't wanna talk back, that's cool.
You know, maybe they're just notembracing the, the new
connections. Maybe they're just really busy
and tired. But go be weird and put yourself
out there and and be patient with it.
But it will. It will come to fruition
eventually. Ali, thank you so much for

(58:37):
joining me in the studio today. Thanks Ash, it's been so much
fun and I can't wait to see how little baby comes along too.
Yeah, yeah, Little Rose will bring her into the studio one
day and we can talk. She'll.
Be the star of the podcast. Oh, no, that's awesome, Ali.
Thank you again. Thank you.

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The Truth About Friendships in Your 20s and 30s | Making Friends, Drifting Apart & Growing Together

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.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}The Truth About Friendships in Your 20s and 30s | Making Friends, Drifting Apart & Growing Together