Visibility Isn’t Vanity | How to Elevate Your Presentations & Build a Personal Brand - With Nicole Joy - Reset with Ash Cam

Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:05):
Hello and welcome back to Reset.I am your host Ash Cam.
Today we are going to be talkingabout a feeling that is hard to
beat. When you are on stage or in
front of a room and you nail a presentation like you just light
up, you feel $1,000,000. And I have a guest with me today
who some of you would have remembered from a previous
episode, which I will link in the show notes, but I have

(00:27):
Nicole Joy with me. Nicole, welcome back to Reset.
Thank you for having me. I'm excited to have you here,
and today I want to cover a pretty broad range of topics.
I want to talk about everything from AI to how to plan to be on
a podcast, how to plan if you'vegot only 5 minutes before doing
a presentation, all the things. But for people meeting you for

(00:50):
the first time, can you just introduce yourself?
Of course. So I am a speaking coach and
recently I've added visibility mental.
Yeah, I love to the end of that because it's not just about
speaking on a stage. It's showing up online on
camera, as you said, on a podcast on a stage.
And I'm the founder of She Speaks Academy.
So essentially I teach women howto tell their story in a

(01:10):
powerful way on a stage. That's how it started.
And now it's how to translate that onto camera, onto podcasts,
onto all the places where your people can see you.
Which is so important because I think everyone listening knows
how valuable having a personal brand is.
But it can be tricky. Need to go from, OK, I've never
shown up in this way before to Iwant to show up like the people

(01:32):
that have 100,000 followers and how do I get through the messy
middle? I ran a poll recently on
Instagram to see what the reset community kind of felt around
public speaking. And so I've got the stats here.
29% said I love it, hand me the mic.
Yeah, yeah. 26% said absolutely no thank you.

(01:53):
Not for me and 46% said it depends on the topic in the
audience, which personally I probably agree with.
Like if I've had a bit of time to prep and I feel like I'm
going into it with a bit of a plan and some confidence then I
love it. But if it was thrown to me last
minute on something that I wasn't prepared for, then sure,

(02:14):
it's going to feel a little bit uncomfortable.
And I think it's going to feel alittle bit uncomfortable for
anyone if you're speaking like the number one rule that I say
is passion has to be there. You have to love what you're
talking about. It has to light you up.
You can't speak about something that you have been told you
should speak about. It needs to be something you

(02:36):
want to speak about. And you can't fake passion, you
can fake energy. That's triple shot lattes and
bee and mother and whatever other those Cabernet drinks are.
I don't drink them. I coffee, coffee.
Definitely you can't fake passion though.
So number one, I would say to that, well, with around 46%, I
think you said that is so normal.

(02:56):
And that's the case for me. If somebody told me to stand up
on stage and talk about something that trucks or
motorsport or something that I have 0 interest in, then I'd be
the same. So number one rule is you need
to be passionate about what you're talking about.
And for those, I think maybe yousaid 26% they were like get.
Me a memory Yeah 26. Percent, 26%.

(03:18):
I would say your community's probably more confident than
most because normally we like 80% of people would be like, get
the microphone out of my face. I don't wanna borrow of it for
those people, though. I am willing to bet it's not
speaking that you have a problemwith, it's the fear of
judgement. So if you work on the fear of

(03:40):
judgement, you work on your capacity to hold other people's
judgement about you, then you will better present or speak in
public because we can all speak.We'll speak every day.
We'll have conversations every day.
It's when we have the eyeballs of strangers staring at us that
our brain goes into, Oh my God, this is a threatening situation.

(04:02):
And for those people that are that scared of it, that think
literally I'm 3 breaths away from my death, I want you to
know that that threat is very real.
The danger is not so, it's your body doing what it does best.
There's a tiny little almond shaped part of our brain called

(04:22):
the amygdala. It's the body's threat detector.
So when it sees 100 eyeballs staring at you, it's alarm
bells. Get out of here.
Abort the situation. So it's doing what it's meant to
do. It's protecting you.
The trouble is it just can't tell the difference between a
real threat, like somebody running at you with a knife
versus 100 eyeballs looking at you.

(04:42):
So what you're feeling is real. I don't want people to think
there's something wrong with me.Why am I feeling like this?
Because you are feeling exactly the way that you're meant to be
feeling. And the only difference between
somebody like me or someone who is confident in speaking is that
I am very practised at it and I have a, a, a way of preparing.

(05:04):
The way that I talk to myself isreally important.
So your words will either serve you or sabotage you.
And I'm willing to bet a lot of the people that say I can't do
speaking, I'm shit at public speaking.
They tell themselves things likethat regularly.
And so when your brain hears I'mshit at speaking, I'm no good at
speaking, I shouldn't be up here, then that's what's going

(05:25):
to happen in your reality. So there's a whole lot of things
happening, the fear of judgement, the way that you talk
to yourself, the way that you prepare.
But yeah, I, I, I really fundamentally believe to my call
that everybody has a confident speaker within them.
They just need to learn to uncover that.
What a great reminder. And so for anyone that's

(05:46):
listening that currently feels sick at the idea of having to
give a presentation, you can only duck and weave so many
times throughout life of avoiding that kind of situation.
And even if it's a job interviewfor a panel of three people,
it's still a presentation at theend of the day.
So I encourage anyone that does have that absolute dropped head

(06:07):
fear of public speaking to keep listening because it is a skill
that can be. It's a skill.
You're not either born with confident speaking genes or not.
It's, it's something that can bebuilt and practised.
So when people say to me, you'reso natural, you natural.
I've been doing it for 22 years.I'd want to look pretty good at

(06:28):
it. So there's a reason why somebody
looks good at doing something. And what I'd love to tell your
listeners who do not want to seea microphone in their entire
lives is that I still get nervesbefore I get on stage.
And I have been doing this for 22 years.
So the difference there is, and I said nerves there.

(06:49):
But nerves and excitement present almost physiologically
identical. The racing heart, the sweaty
palms, the dry mouth. The only difference or the only
way that your brain knows whether you're excited or scared
is if you tell it so. I never say Oh my God, I'm so
nervous. And all the girls in Cheesecake
Academy will know backstage at the events.

(07:11):
Are you excited? Yes Nicole, I'm excited and I'm
so excited. I'm so excited and they're
telling their brain they're excited, not nervous.
And I will still get the butterflies as particularly for
a big presentation even before my she speaks events when I've
got approximately 100 people in front of me, I get the those

(07:33):
feelings that someone else couldinterpret as fear, but I'm
choosing to label it as excitement.
And that's what I tell people before you go on stage, don't do
Oh my God, I'm so nervous. I'm so nervous.
I'm so that is not helpful in any way, shape or form.
I'm excited. I'm so excited for this
opportunity. I'm so grateful for this

(07:54):
opportunity because at the end of the day, if your listeners
take nothing else away from this, hopefully they will.
But if they take nothing else away from this podcast except
this, I'd be happy. Speaking is not about you.
So your story might be about you, but it's for your audience.

(08:15):
So when you go on stage, insteadof, Oh my gosh, what are they
going to say about me? Am I going to remember
everything? It's me, me, me, me, me, me, me.
Turn the spotlight out. What can I do for my audience?
What will they get from this? And when we're, when we're
talking about telling stories, because I, I, I say that, I say
it a lot. Your story is your superpower.
But the caveat there is you needto tell the story in such a way

(08:40):
that your audience can relate toit or there's elements of it
that they can relate to you ask questions throughout your
delivery so they can see themselves in your position.
They may not have been experiencing what you've
experienced, obviously, because we've all got very unique
stories, but we need to be able to hold their hand through

(09:01):
showing them what it's like to be in our position and then the
lessons we've learnt. It's not about trauma dumping,
it's not about getting up. They're going, this happened to
me and this happened to me and this happened to me, and they're
all sitting there going what's in it for me?
Because we're all pretty selfishcreatures.
We want to know what's in it forus.
Our time is limited if we're listening to someone tell me
something that is going to help me.

(09:24):
So I would say take the spotlight off you, flick it onto
your audience and remember speaking is about them.
So good. You recently did a post on
Instagram that said visibility is not vanity, which I saw that
and I was like oof, yes. It's literally my tagline.
I need T-shirts. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
Can you elaborate on that? Yeah, absolutely.

(09:45):
So putting ourselves out there is not about ego, it's about
impact. We have, and I have same with in
your community. We have a lot of heart LED
women. We have a lot of women with
massive visions. They want to do a lot in the
world. You can't help anybody if they
can't see you. People can't buy from you if

(10:08):
they can't see you. So visibility is not just
putting yourself out there. It's not just a photo shoot or a
photo opportunity. Visibility, true visibility is
not only being seen but heard. So it's using your voice, It's
sharing your vulnerabilities. It's standing up for your
values, what you believe in. That, to me is true visibility.

(10:29):
It's not just showing up with a selfie.
It's not just grabbing some B roll when you're out.
It is using your voice, and thatis a huge part of what I do.
It's not just showing pictures of you and creating content,
which is a part of it. It's using your voice and
telling your story. Do you find that that helps
people push past some of the fear?

(10:50):
Because if you can push past this little bit of fear or this
big bit of fear, but the impact that you can have on the other
side is huge, it suddenly becomes so worth it.
Yeah, it's my question would be,how much do you want it?
Yeah. How much do you really care
about the thing that you're doing?
How much do you really care about helping other people?
Because you can't help anyone when you're when you stay

(11:11):
hidden. And I would say quite
confidently that avoiding the spotlight isn't humility.
A lot of people like, I'm so humble, I don't need to be in
the spotlight. No, let's call it what it is.
You're hiding, and you can't help anyone when you're hiding.
I work with a lot of female founders who are already
established, who have already got a great business, but for

(11:33):
many years they've been behind the scenes.
They've been pulling all the strings and orchestrating
everything from behind the scenes.
And my gentle, sometimes not so gentle push is to get to front
of house, get to front of house and become the face that they
know. People don't buy from people
they don't know. There needs to be that trust and

(11:53):
likeability there. And the fastest way to do that,
even if we just remove stage forthe moment, the fastest way to
do that via social media or on our online platforms is online
marketing. It's it's video marketing, It's
showing your face. I read a statistic not too long
ago that said viewers are 50% more likely to continue watching

(12:13):
a video if there's a face there,there's a human face there.
Two point, I think it was 2.5 times more likely to click on it
and stop scrolling if there's a face there.
So there, there's a lot for showing up and showing your face
and speaking as well. But I'm sure you're going to get
to it soon. But not outsourcing your voice

(12:33):
to AI or someone that looks likeyou.
That is something I want to divein.
The AI twins, the AI twins. But before we get there, can we
just talk about the difference between like, I know a lot of
mainly women, I think this is more of a female thing.
Find that talking about their achievements can feel like
bragging. And in a country like Australia,

(12:57):
we do have this tall poppy sort of notion that if you are
talking about things that you'veachieved, even if it's freaking
great and inspiring, it can feellike bragging.
How do we celebrate our wins while still feeling authentic?
So celebrating your wins and bragging are two completely
different things. Celebrating your wins is all

(13:18):
about lifting other people up. If you think of that analogy of
dropping the ladder down to helppeople up, that's what
celebrating your wins is. Bragging is like.
Look what I did, look what I didand bringing the ladder up so no
one can else can join you. Also too, that notion of I don't
want anyone to think I'm bragging again goes back to what

(13:39):
are other people saying and thinking about me.
So it's that fear of judgement. And at this point I would like
to say anybody that's doing anything great in the world,
anyone that's doing either more than you or they're up there
alongside of you, they're in thearena.
They will not judge you. The judgement only comes from,

(14:00):
and I've done a few posts on this recently, judgement only
comes from people to chicken shit to go after their own
dreams and you doing what you'redoing and your success and your
bigness and your visibility triggers in them.
Well, I haven't done that, so I'm just going to bring this
other person down. So just know whenever you cop
that kind of not not constructive criticism, whenever

(14:22):
you cop that kind of judgement, who you think you are, look at
this person big noting herself. Who does she think she is?
That is coming from someone triggered by your success.
And that is a red flag not to listen to them.
And I know that can sometimes beeasier said than done, but a
really great question to ask yourself when you receive any
kind of negative feedback, who'sit come from and what are they

(14:45):
doing? Not to say you're better than
them because you are out there doing what you're doing.
They're on their own path. Everyone's got their own path.
But if they're not in the arena with you, if they're not putting
themselves out there, if they'renot showing up, then their
criticism does not count. Chuck it in the bin.
Yeah, it's almost like a rite ofpassage when you start showing

(15:06):
up online that you're going, you're going to get some trolls.
And I know my partner, so he's apediatric dentist and he's, he
does presentations and workshopsand stuff, but he's only just
stepping into having his own social media presence.
And so I've kind of been coaching him through that behind
the scenes. And so far everything's been
really positive, really nice. And I'm like, one day you are

(15:29):
gonna get a comment that is going to criticise something,
whether it's your professional opinion, whether it's, yes,
something about your hair or youlook like you just don't know.
Yeah, absolutely. And I was like, when that
happens, it's actually a sign that you're getting noticed.
You're on the right path. On the right path, yeah.
Because when we put ourselves out there, it is crazy to think
that everybody will like us. Yeah, it's crazy to think that

(15:51):
everyone will agree with us. So take it as a sign if people
are disagreeing with you and you've got some trolls or
haters, even though there's no room for personal attacks,
people can have a different opinion.
I think we're very quick to label somebody that thinks
differently to us as a hater, which is not the case.
Yeah, haters and trolls are people that stalk you for

(16:13):
personal reasons and they they're picking you apart
personally. Generally, it's not about the
work you do. There's a lot of and insults and
attacks personally, so it's OK to welcome or to have people
that have a different opinion toyou.
Don't let it sway you from what you're doing though, because if
you're out there taking up spaceand and being loud and standing

(16:36):
up for what you believe in, people will go, hey, I don't
agree with that. And that's their right to say
that respectfully. Of course, if they if they don't
say it respectfully, block, delete, see you later.
But I think, yeah, you're right,if if you're starting to get
those comments, cool. I'm on the right track.
Yeah, people are starting to take notice.
Take notice and it shows that you stand for something because
I think there's nothing more boring than vanilla content.

(17:00):
You're not going to get anywherewith that either, like.
Absolutely not. No, no.
That's why using your voice is so important and using it for
things that you believe in, standing up for what you believe
in. And that will not only will it
repel people, that's your secretattracting force for people who
think the same. That's how you find your people.

(17:21):
Yeah, let's talk AI. Left.
I love this. I don't know how I got myself
into this couple. I do know how I got myself into
this conversation and it's it's quite disturbing to be honest.
Yeah, OK. For anyone that I mean, we all
know that AI exists. I'm sure.
Oh, yes. And AI is great.
This is not a this is not an overall attack on AI.

(17:43):
Yes, that's my bestie. We do lots of things together.
Yeah, it's certain parts of AI that are.
So for anyone who hasn't sort ofseen like AI clones or double S
or things like that, can you just talk to us a little bit
about what is currently possible?
Yeah. What you see happening and why?
You don't love it. I really don't like it.

(18:03):
So there's this notion concept AI twins, AI girlies, and they
are either a clone of you or a completely made-up person that
will show up online and do all of your video marketing for you
while you can. This is this is how the girls
sell it. Yeah, while you sit at home with
your sweats and make $10,000 a day.

(18:26):
Oh, where to start or where to start.
So the I'll I'll share with you the quote that started it all.
I someone had sent it to me and I was looking at it.
My mouth was like like drop the whole time just going this is
not happening. And the quote was AI girlies

(18:47):
don't rest and they don't age. I bet you can guess.
We're triggered already. We're triggered already, yeah.
You're right, it's. Like.
So resting is a sin. Aging is a sin rather than the
beautiful gift that it is. And we are reinforcing this

(19:09):
outdated notion that women should look and sound a certain
way. Because if you look at these AI
twins, they all look like they're on off a Victoria's
Secret runway. They've all got the same
figures, the same big boobs, thesame perfect skin, the same
perfect teeth, the same no wrinkles, perfect hair, all of
the things. And we have worked so hard

(19:31):
collectively as women to erase that.
We're not just here to look pretty and we're not just here
to be compliant. And now what's even more
infuriating is that these they're young women that are
utilizing it saying I do online marketing.
I just created Emily. She's two days old and she's
making more money than my full time job last year.

(19:52):
You know all the crazy income claims, but it it's so much
deeper than that. It's it's eroding human
connection when we look at and Iencourage all of your listeners
to go just Google it and and seewhat your body does viscerally
when you watch one of these AI girlies, because the the scene

(20:14):
is crazily perfect. What they're doing is I saw one
the other day and she was, she had an axe.
Or a mallet or something. And she was destroying this
vintage beautiful, expensive carand laughing.
Of course, she had like next to nothing on and just sort of
laughing and giggling and, and it was you, you know that it's

(20:36):
not real, even though it's a human in front of you or looks
like a human in front of you, Your, your brain can't be
tricked. Your brain knows.
Hang on, there's something off about this.
So you're looking at this piece of content and you're like, what
is this? Yes, this is this is not right.
And then that's exactly what's happening because your brain
knows it can't, it can't be tricked.

(20:58):
And so we've got these things called, I'm no scientist, by the
way. So let me just put a disclaimer
here. This is just my own limited
research from a girl who hated science at school.
But we've got mirror neurons, a special brain cell that fires
when we do something or we see someone else do something.
So when someone smiles at us, wetend to smile back.

(21:19):
When someone gets hurt, say theystub their toe.
We even though we didn't stub their toe, we'll go, oh, because
we know, right? The mirror, the mirror neurons
are firms like, oh, we know whatthat feels like when you've got
this avatar, this generated image in front of you.
Our mirror neurons are not firing because they're like,
this is not real. You may not know why, but over

(21:41):
time, if we keep interacting with these fake images, our
ability to to respond to other humans diminishes or flatlines.
And then I mean, gosh, this is awhole podcast episode in itself.
But the other disturbing trend is the AI girlfriends part where
people are creating these fake women online to do what they

(22:05):
say, say what they want them to say at any time of day.
Look how they want them to look.And my question is, well, what
happens when these men go out into community and come across
strong women that have boundaries, that have say no,
that know what they stand for? There's only, there's not many
ways that that's going to go. It's not going to go well.

(22:26):
So these girls sitting at home thinking, and this is just a
harmless bit of fun. It's not and AI is AI is not
coming, it's here. So we have a responsibility to
train it because it's a machine.And I am by no means an expert
in the space. Doctor Nikki Sweeney and I'll
give you her information so you can link in the show notes.
She is a pioneer in this, in this space of, of leading AI

(22:50):
ethically and making sure that we don't just keep repeating the
mistakes of the past. And yeah, to, to cut a Long
story short, outsourcing your voice and your face to a
machine. What is that sending you
internally? I'm not good enough to show up.
I'm not perfect enough. If you've got daughters, you're

(23:11):
about to become a mum. What are we, what are we sending
to our daughters? No, you don't need to show up.
We just need these perfect versions of us to show up It we
are normalising perfection and so then when we look in the
mirror and we see heaven forbid A wrinkle or a roll or a or a
bit of fad or whatever it is a fly away hair, we go.

(23:33):
Not good enough to show up on camera today.
Yeah. So in a weird way, I'm grateful
for it because it makes my mission emblazoned on my heart
that that little bit more of whyit's so important to use your
voice, why it's so important to connect with humans via
storytelling, with humans. In in a one-on-one setting, in a

(23:55):
three to 1 setting, in a one to 100 setting, get comfortable
with standing in front of humans, because if we don't
actively pursue that, we are going to lose it.
Yeah. So it's, it's, it's more, it's
much more than become a speaker.It's, I know this sounds
dramatic, but it's protecting humanity.

(24:15):
It really is. It's, it's making that
connection sacred and not losingit.
So it's, it's something that women need to also look into.
AI is typically used. I can't remember the stats, but
I want to say around 30% of users are women.
We need to change that. Funnily enough, the stats in

(24:36):
speaking's the same. Around 30% of professional
speakers are women. I mean, 70% are men.
There is so much space for us ladies.
There is so much space for us inthe AI world to make sure that
it doesn't go down that absurd, complacent, pretty compliant
woman that we've tried to change.
And there's so much space for uson a stage and speaking and

(24:59):
taking up space. For anyone that's listening that
thinks like, OK, that version ofthe future is scary, not keen
for that. But I see an opportunity that if
I am brave enough to keep putting myself out there as a
human, then it's actually potentially gonna become easier

(25:19):
and easier to stand out. Absolutely.
So for anyone that's like, OK, that's me, I'm inspired.
How do I get started and push through that that cringe kind of
phase like you? And I know when you first start
showing up online, it is awkward.
And I don't know about you, but my biggest fear of judgement
came from the people that I wentto school with, or my auntie, or

(25:43):
like people that I wasn't actually showing up online.
For you're not there. For them you're.
Not there for them, but how do we get started?
How do we how do we just push past?
Because it's like, yeah, sure, when I've got 1010 thousand
followers, I'll, I'll present differently because I'll be
confident there's a social proofthere.
There's this audience. But like, you can't start there.

(26:04):
Exactly right. Oh my gosh, there's so much to
unpack there. So thank you for bringing that
up. Such a juicy question.
So first of all, if we're saying, oh, it's really hard to
show up if I've only got 10 followers, 15 followers, 20
followers, if you were in a roomwith 10 people, 20 people, 50
people, 100 people, would you dismiss them?

(26:24):
Absolutely not. There's still people.
There are humans on the other end.
Whether you have 1522 hundred followers, they're still humans.
So that's that first one. I want you to know.
You might see a number under your followers, but that number
represents a human. You mentioned we get the cringe
around person I went to high school with.
The mum's at the pickup line, the lady that lives down the

(26:46):
street, people that aren't really our customers.
And I want you to remember and say it to yourself as many times
as you need to. Your content is for your
clients, your content is for your clients, your content is
for your clients. Because if you need to, and I
have recommended this to clientsbefore, block the people that
you know follow you, that you don't want their judgement.

(27:07):
That can be until we build that muscle, that can be a good one.
So you know what? I don't want Auntie Mary
following me. So just remove her.
Remove that follower. Don't let her follow you.
When you said before it's cringe, I would say it's not so
much cringe as it is unfamiliar.So reframe, yeah.
It is going to feel weird talking to a little black box

(27:28):
your iPhone if you've never doneit before.
So I would recommend going full exposure therapy, setting up a
tripod. And I talk about this in my
confident on camera course. Set up a a tripod and start just
talking to it. You don't even have to film.
Set it up in your kitchen while you're making the school lunches
or while you're making dinner orwhile you're getting ready and

(27:49):
talk to it. And when I say it, I mean as a
person. Picture that as a person, be it
your bestie, your partner, one of your favorite clients,
somebody that you are comfortable with and talk to
that one person. A big mistake I see with with
every, not just women, anyone coming online.

(28:10):
Hey guys, I just thought I'd popin and they just ramble and
they're talking to everyone. You feel that on the other end
of the phone. So if you use the words you and
your, what do you think about this?
Oh, I was doing this today and Ithought, and you're talking to
one person, they're going to feel that.
So speaking to one person is really, really important.

(28:33):
The reframe we covered, the practical side we covered.
If you do that enough times, it's going to start to feel
familiar and less quote UN quotecringy.
It's only feeling unfamiliar andcringe because you haven't done
it. It's like if you go out and get
B roll or you're filming yourself in public, the first
couple of times it's a bit weird.

(28:54):
I'm holding my phone up and people.
You do that enough times, you donot care who's watching.
And again, who's going to judge that?
People that know what you're doing, people that are already
visible, people that put themselves out there, they're
going to be like, good on you, girl.
They're not going to look. People that go, Oh my God, I
can't believe she's doing that. Not worth.
Not worth worrying about. I find as well when I'm around

(29:17):
friends that are kind of transitioning into wanting to
show up more online, I will grabtheir phone.
I'll be like, oh this is great content, get this.
Like I am their hype girl. We all need a hype.
Girl and I encourage everyone todo that for their friends.
Ads around. Them like it can be hard to
sometimes ask like, oh, can you feel me doing this?
Can you feel me doing this? But be the be the hype girl,

(29:39):
yeah. Be the hype girl 100% and
getting content doesn't have to be hard.
I think there used to be a preconceived notion that it had
to be all very high end. It had to look beautiful and
perfect. You switch a few camera settings
around on your phone and you have got a world class video
camera in your hands. And if you have a SO you need a

(30:01):
tripod or even if you don't havea tripod, set some baskets up
and leave them against books or whatever you need to do.
And while you're doing any everyday stuff, just get 5 or 7
seconds. My opinion with footage on
social media, the more polished it looks, the more people tend

(30:22):
to go Nah. If they can see someone doing
something everyday, something they can relate to automatically
our brain goes oh how do they put their makeup on or or where
are they sitting or what? What chopping board and knife
she using to cut up those onions?
So don't put yourself in the position where everything has to
be perfect. Everything has to be world class
imagery. It only needs to be 5 or 7

(30:44):
seconds as much motion as you can in the shot to to get that
visual hook going. But don't overthink it.
When you do have an audience that feels smaller, it's the
best time to test and learn. And you know what If you
absolutely flop and 100% of youraudience hates something, It's a
small 100%. A hundred.

(31:04):
Percent, yes, absolutely. And I think we need to remember
that we all start somewhere. It can be very easy to look at
someone with a large following. Oh my gosh, look at their
perfectly produced videos. Look how they've got captions on
everything. Look at their editing.
Look at these. Look at that.
We didn't start they if you would have seen some of my first

(31:27):
videos, Oh my talk about cringe.I watched that and go, oh, been
on a learning curve since then. We need to remember that we we
have to start somewhere and it'sOK to fail and it's OK to flop.
I would actually encourage people to when you're doing,
let's just say you're talking tocamera for the first time.
Know that the first maybe three times you're not going to use

(31:51):
it. Just talk.
Just no, it's going to be shit. Not going to use it, but I'm
going to show up anyway. And then once you've done those
throwaway takes, then we can start posting.
But allow yourself that grace tobe a beginner.
You are not going to switch on acamera and talk to it like
you've been doing it for 20 years.
If you haven't been doing it for20 years, it takes 20 years to

(32:12):
look like you've been doing it for 20 years.
Yeah. So that I think that's a really
important thing. Just give yourself the grace to
be a beginner. Yeah, and a reminder that, you
know, people that are doing content for a living, they have
a professional team around them,but they also started somewhere.
Exactly. And don't let the fact that

(32:32):
other people you look up to havea professional team put you off
because you really don't unless you do Obviously podcast
recording, you've got editors and all that kind of thing.
But on social media, great B roll content is so easy to get
you. So all of the, if you go to my
Instagram, all of the ones of metalking to camera are me in my

(32:52):
office. I have a ring light.
I've got great settings on my phone and it's me putting it
through. I film everything in my camera
in my I don't film straight to Instagram, film it in my camera.
Then I go to edits the editing app by that Instagram brought
out. I cut all the silences.
I get rid of any stuff UPS. Here's a big tip.

(33:13):
Don't try to film it all perfectly in one tip and then
stop. Just keep going and edit it out
later. Yeah, I don't if I'm here's
another tip full of tips today. When you're all done up, like
today, I'm done up. I'm going to go home and I'm
going to film some. Yeah, when you're feeling.
Good. I'm all done up.
So why? Why would I waste this
opportunity? I have my talking points and I

(33:35):
put the camera and I just talk and I'll stuff it up and I'll
go, oh shit, I'll take a dare, I'll take a breath and then I
keep going. I'll stuff up again, take a
breath, keep going, and then I just edit it out into my four or
five videos that I get. You don't need to show up
perfectly. You don't need to know what word
for word I would actually say. Whether on camera or stage,

(33:57):
trying to remember something word for word is actually the
thing that will derail you. Because when you stuff up, not
if, when you stuff up, that willthen derail your entire talk.
Whereas if you learn it in chunks, if you learn it in.
OK, this is the opening part. Here's my bullet points.
When I'm rehearsing, I rehearse with bullet points and that's

(34:18):
it. I draft out a a talk if I'm and,
and this is what I do with my clients as well.
I draft out a talk, but then I chunk it all up for them and,
and give them bullet points and go, OK, go retell that story and
they're your only three points You're going to see and just see
what comes out because sometimesthe magic comes out in those
parts. If you stick to a script and

(34:38):
you're so worried about memorising it, not only does it
feel unnatural, it feels like one big monologue.
It doesn't feel like a conversation.
You miss out on potential gold. When you're in flow and you're
just talking, that's when that'swhen you get the good stuff is
when you're not tied to a script.
So a script, a loose script, is there to start off the
scaffolding and then we break itdown into chunks.

(35:01):
Let's dive into that a little bit then.
So if someone is given an opportunity to speak, maybe on a
panel, maybe as a podcast guest,maybe they'll be given some
questions in advance. Yes.
How do you recommend preparing for that without sounding
scripted? Because as you said, things
don't always go to plan. It is going to derail you if
you're trying like word for. Word for word, say next.

(35:23):
Absolutely. I actually had a client not long
ago that she was invited to be on a panel and she gave me the
questions and then she said I'vefilled them in and I looked at
the answers and I was like, thisis like a brochure.
It just, it was, it was too. It was it was, it was it was
like a piece of literature. It didn't feel like her and I
knew this client very well. So then when we hopped on our

(35:45):
one-on-one call, I said, all right, I'm going to ask you the
questions now. I just want you to riff to me.
And the answers were completely different.
So not only did I tell her to I want you to answer the questions
verbally. So a mistake that I see whether
you're sitting down to try and write a talk or answer questions
that you've been given is you'llwrite them.

(36:06):
Now when we write things, we change the way that it would
normally come out of our mouth to sound.
We all do it to sound more professional.
So if you've been given questions, my tip is to voice
note yourself. So have the question in front of
you and then just riff, voice note, see what comes out.
You'll get some shit in there that you won't use, but then

(36:26):
you'll get some good stuff. So that's the first thing is
answer it verbally. The next tip I would have was
where can you infuse stories in there?
So instead of telling them this is our product and it does this,
this client I was talking about was launching a new product.
Instead of telling them why theyneed the product and all of its
benefits and features, I said what real life stories because

(36:49):
she belonged to that industry. What real life stories do you
have that you can then relate tothe audience about why this
thing will work? She's like, Oh my gosh, you have
got heaps of stories like this, this, this.
There's just that's what you start with.
And when you're on the panel, when you're on the podcast.
More so for panels because we don't have an audience here, but
more so for panels. Don't just look at the person

(37:10):
who's asking questions. There's a whole audience there.
Have that engagement. It's one of my favorite sayings
I teach my clients is less presentation, more conversation.
Let's just have a chat. So stories.
Make sure you've always got stories to back up your points
and answer them verbally to get the good stuff out.
Don't try to sit down and write a perfect answer and don't use

(37:33):
ChatGPT unedited. So I said before, chat is great.
I love chat. It's counsellor, therapist,
business strategist, so good. What we've come up with in the
last few days has been mind blowing.
But I never, ever, ever take thefirst answer.
One I've trained it, it knows me, but you'd get an answer and

(37:54):
you do not copy and paste. I've been to so many events
where you can clearly tell it's a copy and paste, or we see it
in people's captions, we see thecopy and paste.
So allow it to do what it does best, but then you have to add
your humanness into it. Really great tips.
And I think as you were saying earlier, you can kind of tell
visually if it's an AI girly. You can tell when you're reading

(38:18):
content, absolutely you can tell.
And even if people have taken out the long dashes, you know.
People still leave those in. People still leave those in, but
even if that is gone, you can tell if it's got that passion
and that personality. And I know some of the bigger
podcasters like Steve Bartlett he's talking about, he's
intentionally leaving in typos and things now in his LinkedIn

(38:42):
posts to make sure. Humanness.
Yeah. So you know how you can tell if
it's not AI? There's a story in there.
AI can't tell your stories through speaking or through
words. Yeah, it can't.
So you know, and even look, you might get chat to fix up a
little bit of your caption, but open it with a story.

(39:04):
That's when you know that it's not a ChatGPT copy and paste.
There's an actual human story inthere.
I will be forever a champion of stories because that's how we
keep our humanists alive and that's how we connect.
We're wired to hear stories overstatistics and lists and facts.
Yeah. If someone's in a work setting

(39:24):
and they're given a really shortamount of time, like, hey, we've
got a meeting in 5 minutes, can you come and present on that
project that you're working on or something like that, and the
time frame is short, how do you recommend they prepare so that
they don't just go in and like, yeah, verbally spray all over
the room? Correct question.
No, that you don't have to do itword for word.
If somebody has just said to you, hey, can you present on

(39:46):
this in 10 minutes? Nobody's expecting a word for
word, perfect memorisation. SO1 remove that expectation and
then give yourself the structure.
So your opening needs to be something that they are going to
relate to. So when I say stories, it
doesn't always have to be a personal story.
About you, about your past. It can be something that

(40:08):
happened that morning, somethingthat happened last week,
something you saw on the news, acase study from a well known
business or a project. See if you can grab something
that's happened that you could conversationally share with
everybody that has something to do with with your main topic.
Don't open up with thanks for being here.
We've got this many KPI's to hit.

(40:29):
You know all don't start with that everyone will glaze over.
So try and get a story that willillustrate the the main message
that you're trying to talk about.
Then don't go more than any morethan three points.
The human brain cannot take morethan three. 3 is good.
We chunk everything in three. We memorize things in three in
three. Sorry.
So don't go more than three and be OK with and everyone will be

(40:52):
OK with you doing it too, looking at your notes.
So write that down and go. This is the first one I want to
hit. This is the second one after you
hit your first one, go. OK, let me just all right,
great, cool. So second, blah, blah, blah,
blah, go back to your note three.
OK, you can do that on a live oran Instagram video as well.
Don't think you have to know everything.
It's fine. Like when I do master classes, I

(41:14):
go, I'm just gonna look at my notes.
Cool, done everything there. Awesome.
Next, nobody cares that you're doing that.
So really release that. This has to be perfect.
So we've got our opening story. We've got our three points.
Be really clear on what action. Generally in a work setting or a
corporate setting, there's an action that you want people to
take. Be really clear.

(41:35):
Don't be ambiguous about that. This is what we need to do after
this meeting. Here's the this is the report I
need you to read or this is the link I need you to find.
Whatever it is, be really, really specific.
And if you can, maybe not in five to 10 minutes prep time,
but if you can always close the loop, which means go back to
that first story, go back to that first analogy, whatever it

(41:59):
is that you shared and and tie it all back in.
It's like putting a present, a bow on a present.
It always looks a little unfinished until it just says
that bow. So closing the loop and then
everyone feels like cool, this is done, there's nothing
lingering, we can move on to thenext step.
Yeah, great tips and you supporta lot of really high achieving
women whether they're entrepreneurs or entrepreneurs

(42:22):
driven in their careers. You do VIP datas now, which I
think a lot of people listening are probably like, oh, I could
benefit from that. Talk us through what a day with
you looks. Like these are my new favorite
things to do. We can get so much done.
And generally the women that I work with, like you mentioned
are high achieving. They're already successful.

(42:42):
They're time poor. So they don't have two months to
invest in the She Speaks Live program.
They won it yesterday. So in a day we can do that.
So we have, we kick off with a 90 minute call beforehand and
that that's when I want them to just dump all of their story on
me, all of their messaging. What do you want to be known
for? What are the stories that make
sense for you to share? So there's a lot of talking on

(43:04):
their behalf in that first session, a lot of typing by me.
And that's where I kind of see, OK, what's the main threads
here? What's the stories that will
work? And when I say stories for
stage, it's not just for a keynote.
Some of them are preparing for akeynote, others just want this
fully tailored. OK, here's my keynote if I ever
need to present it, but let's double up on that content and

(43:27):
use it in our social media. So it's really important to be
clear and have this consistent message whether you're on
camera, whether you're on stage.So the beginnings of that happen
in that kick off call. And then on the actual day, I
will beforehand, I will have started writing out the talk
loosely just to see what they, they think of it and if it, it's

(43:49):
vibing with them. The first third of the day is
generally around that talk. We're we're we're back and
forcing. I'm writing, they're up talking.
I get them to pretend they're onstage.
I'm like, just start talking andsee what comes out and I'm
typing. So it's a real collaborative
effort. And then the middle half of the
day is more on their actual presence and delivery.

(44:10):
So we'll get parts of their talkthat I will say, OK, look over
it for a bit, even if it's one or two sentences at a time,
start about delivering and I will be able to give them real
time feedback of how to project their voice, how to use a pause
effectively, what's their body language doing?
What's their energy like? So that's more around the
physical side of delivery. Then included in that we do a

(44:33):
little mini shoot with B roll and iPhone.
I used to be a photographer so II can take some.
Is there anything you can't? Do I've done a few things.
I've done a few things. I love that little value add
too. So we get heaps of B roll, we
get some beautiful photos and then we in the final session we
really look at positioning them in the market.
So that's carrying that message from their keynote into their

(44:56):
social media content that is looking at I have a framework
that I call Icon. So I this is the four different
types of content. I is for insight.
So that's really thought leadership over trend following.
So what kind of insights can youoffer as a, as an expert in your
field? We've got C, which is for
capturing their attention and getting your credibility,

(45:18):
showcasing your credibility. So whether that's client
testimonials, whether that's youdoing the thing you on stage, if
you're a speaker, O is for offers.
So that's really figuring out, OK, what are we selling here?
You're on social media, you wantto be making in money.
We want to make money. We want to monetize our message.
So helping them kind of figure out, do we have a flow?
Like I've, I've got a lady who is, it's more of a passion

(45:41):
project that she's working on now.
So there's no real business offers.
Like it's not a coach, there's no container, but she does have
supplementary products to what she's talking about.
So we mapped out, OK, this couldbe your lead magnet now this
could be your low ticket offer. And now we're going to go into
this. So it's a bit more business back
end. It's using all my experience in

(46:01):
business there to monetise theirmessage essentially at the end
of the day and is for nurture. So how do we nurture our
audience? How do we teach them?
How do we inspire them? How do we give them value?
Because if you look at social media as a whole, if all we did
was just sell, you owe offer, noone's listening.

(46:21):
If all we did was just give tipsand inspiration, we'd kind of
blend in. Does she actually do anything
different if all it was was justinsights with no offering and no
nurturing? It's like, oh, this person
thinks that they're the expert and they know what they're
talking about. If we don't show credibility do
then they believe us. So all those four types of

(46:42):
content are really important to have.
So I map that out with them, monetize their message, and then
we have a 90 minute call after the fact, maybe two to three
weeks later so they can have some practice time, they can
deliver a bit more of their talkor we can finalize any of the
offers, any social media stuff that they might need help with.
And oh, in the day 2 is camera confidence, little mini master

(47:04):
class as well. So basically what I teach in two
months in a day. Yeah, it's a it's a lot, but
they go, they walk away with that one-on-one feedback from
me, which is invaluable. And it's all done in a day.
So if you don't have two months,this is this is the next best
thing. I know a lot of reset listeners
are sort of time poor, and when we're inspired to do something,

(47:27):
we just want to do it. Yeah.
So I think that is going to suita lot of people.
What kind of platforms do you help people show up on?
So obviously stage is 1, but we can't be on stage all day, every
day. No.
Social media plays a beautiful complimentary role to that.
Yes. What platforms are you seeing
have the most impact and influence?
For social media platforms, yeah, if you show up correctly

(47:51):
on the platform you're on, it will work for you.
So whether that's TikTok, LinkedIn, Instagram, my question
is, where's your audience? Where are the people that you
want to attract? I talk to the women inside my
programs a lot about LinkedIn because if you want to get into
that corporate space of speaking, you absolutely need to
be present on LinkedIn. However, I see people doing

(48:16):
exceptional things just on TikTok, just on Instagram that
aren't on LinkedIn. And that brings me back to that
first point of if you do it correctly, you will stand out.
You will become the go to. You'll be impossible to ignore
because you are hitting all of those different types of
content. You're visible, you're showing
your face, you're sharing your voice.

(48:37):
So wherever you are, if you're doing all of the things I think
you're going to, you're going tostand out because like you said,
we can't be on a stage every day.
But the way you show out on social media is going to dictate
whether you get the podcast invitations or the speaking
invitations in the 1st place andeven being guests on master
classes. What I would love your listeners

(48:59):
to start thinking about and changing their maybe the way
that they view speaking is you don't necessarily have to.
I just did a reel on this yesterday.
You don't necessarily have to speak as your business, drop
everything and just be a professional speaker.
But what I would love women to start thinking about is speaking
for your business. So getting in the rooms where

(49:21):
your ideal clients are. 1 Strategic placement in a room
full of your ideal clients can be worth more than six months of
you posting on social media. If you're in a room full of 100
women, you get to present for 30minutes and then you get to
point them to your lead Gen. or you get to share your offers
with them. Say you've got a $2000 program.

(49:44):
Two people sign up. You just made 4 grand for 30
minutes for a couple of hours ofyour time you may not be getting
yet. You can do both.
You can get paid as a speaker and get your clients to be
paying you as well, but I think that's an incredible way if
you're just first starting out, get into those rooms, get on the
panels, get on the podcast. I, I actually, every time I've

(50:07):
done a podcast, I have got somebody either sign up for She
Speaks Academy or my one day workshop, maybe today I can say,
or a VIP client. But every time I go on a podcast
because I'm intentional about the podcast, I go on and that's
what you have to be when you're speaking for your business.
You don't just take any opportunity.
No point me going to talk to 50 something year old men and

(50:29):
investing software company like that's not going to help me.
But I align with your audience. I align with the audiences of
the women that I join and I encourage women to to think
about that. Getting on those stages, not
always a stage and a mic, but could be a podcast or a panel.
Getting in front of other people's audiences is the
fastest way to grow your business.

(50:51):
And if you are prepared, if you know what your story is, if you
know what your message is, if you know what that what you want
that audience to walk away with and you've got a clear call to
action, it's win, win. Yeah, you can have a lot of
people calling you and be like, hey Nicole, I want to go on a
podcast. Can you catch me on how to do
it? Yeah, but it's true.
And I think I could always say 100% of my guests that I've had

(51:14):
on this podcast tell me they getclients after coming on the
podcast. It's just such a intimate way of
getting to know someone's story.Like we, like we said, you can
Google, you can look up and chatGTP like all these tips and
tricks, but we're humans and we connect with other humans and.
Yeah, that human connection piece is what we need to keep
alive more now than ever. We really need to keep it

(51:37):
strong. And I, I really do believe in
humanity. I know that there are these
darker sides to technology and, and the advancing AI, but it's,
it's been like that with everything, right?
The Internet has the dark web and all the awful things on
there and it's just something else.
So we just need to it is moving a little quicker and it's moving
fast. So we do need to take

(51:58):
responsibility for that, but andspeaking about responsibility
for I'm a mother of a girl, you're about to be, there's lots
of and, and boy mums too, right?But for girls, particularly, if
we want our girls to take up space, if we want them to share
their voice and use their voice and share their story, we need

(52:21):
to show them how to do it. It's one thing to go stand up
for yourselves, use your voice, but if there's no one showing
them, then AI girlies will take over.
I know I'm kind of joking about it, but we, we need to be and
take responsibility for showing up.
If we want our girls to show up,we need to show up.

(52:43):
If you've got this fear of showing your face on camera and
you avoid it at all costs, and you've got children watching you
do that, what message are you sending to them?
We have to go a little bit deeper here because if we can't
show up with all our humanness and with all our flaws, how are
we going to expect our children to?
That's why when I when I talk about visibilities, not vanity,

(53:06):
it goes a lot deeper than showing your face.
It is literally paving the way for the next generation.
And how we do it will dictate whether they show up or whether
they shut down. So it's a little bit more
important than we think. It's not just about getting a
face on camera. Yeah, the ripple effects.
It's a ripple effect, yeah. They're huge.

(53:27):
Nicole, I've loved this chat andI think our listeners have as
well. Before we say goodbye, I'm sure
you'll be back in the studio in the future.
Absolutely. But is there anything that we
haven't spoken about today or that you want to leave listeners
with? I think I'd like to circle back
to that point that I just said, yeah, it's really not about you.
There's a whole generation of young people looking at us to

(53:50):
lead them, and it's our responsibility to show them how
to do that with our flaws, with our humanness, and really try to
erode this illusion of perfection.
Thank you. Thank you.

All Episodes

Visibility Isn’t Vanity | How to Elevate Your Presentations & Build a Personal Brand - With Nicole Joy

Episode Transcript

Popular Podcasts

Stuff You Should Know

Dateline NBC

Betrayal: Weekly

.css-15opob5{left:0;position:absolute;top:0.8rem;} All Episodes

.css-14f5ked{margin:0;word-break:break-word;display:-webkit-box;-webkit-box-orient:vertical;box-orient:vertical;-webkit-line-clamp:2;overflow:hidden;}Visibility Isn’t Vanity | How to Elevate Your Presentations & Build a Personal Brand - With Nicole Joy