What They Don’t Tell You About Motherhood: Burnout, Hormones and Healing - Interview with Emma Morris

In this powerful episode of Reset, Ash sits down with Emma Morris - Clinical Nutritionist, Mother and Founder of Maia Mothers Collective - to talk about the raw, real and often overlooked realities of becoming a mum.

Emma supports women through the transition into motherhood, known as matrescence, and her work focuses on burnout, postpartum health, hormonal changes and nervous system regulation. Together, we explore what actually happens to the body and brain after birth, why the idea of "bouncing back" is outdated, and what women really need during this transformative time.

Whether you're preparing for motherhood, in the thick of it, or supporting someone who is, this is a must-listen conversation filled with practical tips and powerful insights.

 

In this episode we discuss:

* What happens to a woman’s brain, hormones and nervous system after birth

* Burnout in motherhood - what it looks like and how to support recovery

* Red flags to look out for in early postpartum

* Nervous system regulation tools

* Postpartum testing, nutrition and supplements

* The importance of women's circles and community connection

* Menstrual cycles and what to expect after giving birth

* How partners and friends can support new mums

* What Emma wishes more people understood about motherhood

 

Connect with Emma:
Website: https://www.maiamothers.com.au
Instagram (Maia Mothers): https://www.instagram.com/maiamothers.collective/
Instagram (Emma): https://www.instagram.com/emmamorris.co/

 

Helpful links mentioned in this episode:
Australian Breastfeeding Association: https://www.breastfeeding.asn.au
PANDA – Perinatal Anxiety and Depression Australia: https://www.panda.org.au

Interview with Psychologist Anna Howlett "Understanding Postnatal Depression" https://youtu.be/74cdzIIAePM

If you enjoyed this episode, please follow, rate and share it with someone who needs to hear it.

Episode Transcript

(00:05):
Hello and welcome back to Reset.I have a guest with me today.
Her name is Emma and I'm excitedto dive deep with her into a
world that I don't think is looked at enough.
There's a lot of talk around after giving birth.
How do we care for the baby? How do we prep the baby?
How do we make the nursery beautiful?
Am I bottle feeding? Am I breastfeeding?
What am I doing? But the missing piece to that

(00:27):
and I think is all around looking at how do we care for
the mum? Because I think there's that
saying like healthy mum, healthybub.
And it's not just a catch phraseI think is so true and based in
science. So Emma, welcome to reset.
Thank you. I'm so excited to be here.
So excited. It is so nice to have you in the
studio. Thank you for driving down No.

(00:48):
Worries. It's a beautiful studio.
For anyone meeting for the firsttime, can you please tell us a
little bit about what you do andwhy you're so passionate about
it? Yeah, sure.
So how long have we got now? I am a, my background is I'm a
clinical nutritionist and I own a clinic called May and Mother's
Collective, which is based in Brisbane and we have I think 16

(01:12):
practitioners. So we're a multimodal clinic and
we are, we exist to support the mother.
We exist to support the mother as she goes through the
fertility journey, the pregnancyjourney and the postpartum
journey and then well and truly into motherhood.
So we offer a variety of modalities to do that.
And I guess I also am in the coaching space, in the

(01:33):
motherhood coaching space as well, because I have a
background in psychology. So I do a lot of coaching work
with mothers. And over the years I've realized
that nutrition is amazing and it's, it's very, very, very
fundamental and foundational. But we really need to be
supporting the mother in all aspects.
And that is, you know, physically Physiology, looking

(01:54):
at her Physiology, her nutritional status, but also
her, her belief systems and really ensuring that she is
being supported through these huge transitional periods of her
life. The reason I do this work is
because when I had my first baby4 1/2 years ago, I went through
this process called matrescence,which I'm sure we will talk

(02:17):
about. I didn't really know what it was
at the time but I went through this process and thought Oh my
goodness, the whole world has changed the way that I view the
view. The world is completely
different now and why aren't people not talking about this
and why do we only get a six week checkup that goes for 5

(02:37):
minutes and that's it? As soon as we've had the baby,
it just, it was absolutely wild and I couldn't understand it.
So I opened up a clinic to do exactly that.
And that is really the the reason why we do what we do to
help and support and really holdthe mother through everything
she goes through because it's challenging and there's lots of

(02:58):
highs and lots of lows and we really need to support all of
that. Yeah.
It was that multidisciplinary approach that you guys have that
really attracted me to your workbecause there is a lot of
scattered support out there. But I think it can be really
overwhelming to know who do I need when.
And so to have that team, like all in one space is so special.

(03:20):
And I just want to make sure that we acknowledge that guys
and fathers, they'd go through achange as well.
And like, there's no denying that.
But you specialized in supporting the mother and said
that's what we're going to dive deep into today.
Absolutely. And and I agree fathers are
under a lot of pressure as well and they go through their own
change. Absolutely.
And I guess by extension, we support the mother, but then we

(03:42):
also, you know, support the father via supporting the
mother. And sometimes we have husbands
that come in for support as well.
Yeah, beautiful. So you did a post on Instagram
recently and I'm just going to quote it so I get it right.
But motherhood doesn't just change your body, it rewires
your brain, your hormones and your stress response forever.
So with that in mind, the concept of bouncing back, which

(04:06):
I know gets thrown around a lot with with new mums, if we're
going by what you're saying, theconcept of bouncing back out
isn't actually possible. We can only ever bounce forward
and become a new version of ourselves.
So can you talk to us about whatactually happens to women after
they give birth? Like to our minds, to our

(04:27):
bodies, to our stress response? Yeah.
What happens? So many things and I think when
we, I love talking and educatingabout this, because once we
understand what actually happensboth from that hormonal,
physiological and physical and emotional, the brain, it makes
so much more sense. And there's a lot less guilt and
shame that mothers feel for changing and not bouncing back

(04:49):
and not going, you know, back towho they were.
Because you're right, we don't, we will never go back to who we
were. That can feel really daunting.
And there's a big process of understanding what your new
identity is, which can take a long time.
But I guess let's start with thehormones.
There are many hormones that obviously fluctuate throughout

(05:11):
pregnancy and a lot of them build up across pregnancy.
The biggest ones are estrogen and progesterone and then
oxytocin as well. Prolactin is another one that
kind of peaks at the end there and that's responsible for milk.
But it is really important to understand that we have this
huge peak of hormones throughoutpregnancy and and peaking really

(05:33):
at the end when we give birth and our placenta comes out, we
have a big shift in hormones. So a lot of those hormones will,
particularly estrin and progesterone will drop right
down to levels of a menopausal woman.
So essentially they go from the highest they will ever be in
your life to the lowest they will potentially ever be.

(05:56):
Within what kind of time frame does that happen?
Like days? Yes, yes.
Like within, you know, 2448 hours, essentially as soon as
that baby is born and the placenta is born, you're then
kind of crashing after that. Essentially from a hormonal
perspective, that's what brings on the baby Blues day three to
day five. I really think it's it's really

(06:18):
individualized and some women doexperience it a little bit
earlier. And it also depends on when milk
comes in as well. But yeah, there is a big crash.
And that is, I mean, giving birth in, however you give birth
is a huge event. But it's a physiological crash.
And that's where women can feel really emotional, really sad,

(06:39):
but also just really joyful and just a lot of tears and a lot of
emotion. And I think it's really
important to name that that's what happens because if you
don't understand it when it hits, which it inevitably will,
you think, what is happening to me?
What's what's wrong with me? I remember crying, not because I
was sad, but because I loved my new daughter so much.

(07:01):
And I was looking at her and just was bawling, crying.
And my husband runs in thinking I dropped the baby on the head
and he's like, what's wrong? I was like, I just love her so
much. He's like, oh, is that all?
Like, why are you crying so much?
And I was like, you know, had toexplain to him so.

(07:21):
Did you know before going into this just how much your hormones
would I did fluctuate? Yeah, I was.
AI was working in this space a little bit, not as much as I am
now, but I definitely knew the Physiology behind it.
But then the experiencing of like of myself, I just, it was
next level and I think I always knew that I would work with

(07:43):
mums, but I wanted to become a mum myself before actually
diving deep into this work. So that happens.
And then after that, from a hormonal perspective, our
prolactin and oxytocin are the two big hormones that run the
show. So prolactin is the hormone, as
I said, that prolactation, it helps us to produce milk and
there's a little bit of that through pregnancy, but that
really starts to peak once our milk comes in and we start to

(08:04):
produce a lot more breast milk. And that when that's high as, as
we are producing breast milk, our estrogen and progesterone
stay quite low. And that's what for a lot of
women, not everyone, but keeps our periods and our menstrual
cycles at Bay until we stop breastfeeding or really reduce
feeds. Absolutely not for everyone.
Some women get their period backpostpartum very quickly.

(08:25):
And then oxytocin is the other big hormone.
Obviously that's around all the time, especially in pregnancy,
but that really it's that love hormone, it's that feel good
hormone and that really increases postpartum as well.
So we've got this hormonal fluctuation.
Our brains literally get rewired.
There's been studies done on women who have never had a baby
and those who have, and even just being pregnant actually

(08:47):
will start to change the brain. And they've gone under
functional fMRI scans and they've revealed that the brain
actually looks so different. And we can tell just from those
scans who has being pregnant andwho has, you know, had a baby
and who hasn't. And that is because, yeah,
there's absolutely some changes that happen.
We are rewired to be more hyper vigilant to our baby, to be more

(09:10):
emotionally attuned to our baby.But it does mean that it can
take a little, a little while tofeel like ourselves again from a
brain and emotional and brain capacity point of view.
Hence the term mumbrane, I thinkcomes in a lot.
Our brain does undergo this rewiring and it takes some time
to get used to that. And it's because from that

(09:32):
biological perspective, we really need to be nurturing and
honouring our, our cues with understanding our baby and
bonding with our baby. And that's how nature has set
our brains up. But we, I think we pathologize
that sometimes and think, well, what's wrong with me?
And actually it's just a processthat we can support rather than
fix, if that makes sense. So that's just a couple of the

(09:55):
changes that happen. Yeah, and, and you're right that
knowledge is power in some ways,but it's not until you have that
lived experience that you fully appreciate.
It's just how wild it can be. And so combining your your
knowledge and your studies, as well as your lived experience as
a mum, what surprised you most about becoming a mum?

(10:15):
I think when I first think of this question, the biggest thing
that comes to mind is society and how little it feels like
they truly understand what a mother goes through when you
give birth. I describe this to my clients
when they're about to give birth.
Like, yes, you can do so much toeducate and and understand and

(10:38):
get ready for that, But there isthere is just nothing like
walking through that portal. It's a portal that I describe it
as. And again, it doesn't matter how
you give birth, whether it's a physiological birth with no pain
relief or a plan C-section you once you give birth to that
baby, it is just unlike anythingelse I've experienced.

(10:59):
And I'm walking down the street after giving birth and looking
at other mums going, you've beenthrough this, you've been
through this. Oh my gosh, why do we not talk
about this more? And just how much your world
changes And obviously everyone'sdifferent and some mothers won't
feel as big of a shift and others will be feel a gigantic

(11:22):
shift. And I understand that.
But that was probably the biggest thing when I first
became a mum. And and then the ones who were
struggling and really strugglingwith breastfeeding or their
mental health or not feeling like themselves or body image
issues or relationship issues, all of the things or attachment
bonding, not feeling like they think they should feel, where

(11:45):
was the support for them? And that just really, it really
shook me. And I didn't have a particularly
like bad postpartum. I went through lots of
challenges, but I was mostly overcome with joy and oxytocin.
But I was part of mothers groupswhere there were health
professionals in that group, as in they were new mums.

(12:06):
I remember vividly a a medical doctor being one of those people
and she broke down and was like,I just, I just this is just so
overwhelming for me. And I thought, Oh my gosh, even
like it doesn't discriminate. Like, you know, you can go
through so much and it can send you to your knees.
And why do we not have the support to support these

(12:30):
mothers, support mothers in general and to hold them.
And it's not fixing. It's holding them through this
process and go, you know what? Everything that's happening is
as it should. And we are here to support you
in any way that you need throughthis process.
And so that's probably the biggest thing that shocked me,
like the profound changes that Iwas witnessing within myself in

(12:53):
how I viewed the world. And then the conversations I was
having with other mothers going through the same thing and
going, what is going on here with our society?
Why aren't we supported more, more?
So that's probably the biggest thing that changed me.
Yeah, it's interesting. I guess society puts, whether
they're loud or subtle pressureson us at all different phases of

(13:15):
being a female. But I feel like during
motherhood, it's that saying like you're expected to parent
as if you don't work and then work as if you're not a parent.
And that is not actually possible in either side.
And so it gets really messy in between.
So it sounds like these changes are sort of inevitable and
they're going to be challenging no matter how beautiful and

(13:37):
smooth your process is in comparison.
But when is the challenge too much?
Like are there some red flags weshould look out for that?
OK, yes, this is a new season for me.
It's going to be hard. But oh, hang on, these are alarm
bells that I either will spot inmyself, spot in a friend, spot
in a partner. Like what should we be looking
for? That's kind of needs to be

(13:59):
escalated. Yeah, absolutely.
I think there's a few different layers that you could look at
here, you know, from a psychological point of view, but
also from a physical Physiology point of view.
And I think I just want to preface this with before any
pregnant women who are listeningbefore you, before going through
this, I think it's really helpful to sit down with your

(14:20):
partner and talk about these potential red flags.
Because sometimes you, you so init yourself that you don't even
realize, right? You are so overwhelmed or so
sleep deprived that you don't even pick up these red flags
yourself. And so having a partner or a
family member or a friend that you can rely on to ask you and

(14:45):
check in that you're OK or just,you know, monitor whether these
red flags are presenting, I think is really, really
important from a psychological point of view.
So the baby Blues often will happen.
And obviously there's that a lotof emotion, but it shouldn't
last for longer than two weeks. And so that's, as I mentioned
before, it's a very physiological, like hormonally

(15:05):
derived mood change. Anything more than two weeks and
where it's, it's really consistent, you know, day in day
out probably needs to be looked at, you know, support from a
mental health point of view or professional and just feeling
not yourself. So feeling, you know, from a
mood point of view, feeling down, feeling hopeless,

(15:25):
helpless, not being able to see the joy, having, you know,
emotion. And I think for a long time we
will have a lot more emotion than we're probably used to.
And that's really normal. But where it really impacts that
quality of life day-to-day. So that is a big one.
I also see a lot of anxiety and a lot of hyper vigilance in that

(15:46):
early postpartum season. And whilst I do want to name
that hypervigilance is really normal, it's part of the way
that the brain rewires like we are.
We are wired to sleep lighter when our baby comes, you know,
comes into the world because we are wired to protect them and to
check on them. And yes, your sleep eventually
will go back, maybe not quite like what it did before you

(16:08):
became a mum. But if you are, you know, months
down the track and you feel likeyour sleep is you are not
getting enough deep sleep and you're feeling really, really
unrefreshed. And yet you're really struggling
with that sleep deprivation due to whatever reason.
It could be due to a very wakeful baby or it could be due

(16:29):
to the fact that you just can't seem to switch off.
That might be something to look into and and I guess coming in
from a physiological point of view now, sleep and energy and
mood and all of those things arevery underpinned by nutrients.
And so something that we do in our clinic is do a full blood
work up. So really understanding, yes,

(16:50):
you're going to be sleep deprived and your energy will
reflect that obviously. But if you feel that your, your
mood is different, it's lower orit's more anxious than than what
you would consider normal, it's affecting your quality of life
day-to-day. You're finding that your nervous
system is really on edge all of the time and you're not getting
any downtime at all. You are feeling really, really

(17:13):
foggy or feeling really, really tired and you just can't kind of
get through the day. I don't want to say without a
nap because naps are really amazing, but your, your energy
has really, really shifted. You've got racing thoughts, you
have, you know, heart palpitations, all of those
things, they need to be checked out essentially.
And we really advocate for bloods to be done firstly at

(17:33):
that 6 to 8 week postpartum checkup and then again every
three or four months within thatfirst 12 to 18 months, because
things really shift postpartum in a, in a postpartum body, the
Physiology, there's a lot of shifting hormones, shifting
stress levels, shifting nervous system states, there's a lot of
moving parts. And so to really just check in
on those nutrient cells which underpin the nervous system and

(17:57):
underpin a lot of these processes is really important.
Because it might be that, yeah, you need some psychological
support, but you can't, you know, out therapy, a iron
deficiency or a thyroid dysfunction, which can be
underpinning some of these signsand symptoms.
So yeah, to answer your question, there's a few of the
red flags I would say, but you know, where are they coming from

(18:18):
can be many different, many, many different ways.
Yeah, So important to be kind ofproactively aware of them.
But like you said, when you're in the depths of that, you might
not spot any of them. And then that whole guilt can
come in and think, I shouldn't ask for help.
I wanted this baby or I know some friends of mine have talked
about I've tried for two years to have this baby.

(18:38):
I really wanted it. I should be grateful.
I don't deserve to feel like I'mstruggling or ask for help and
it's just like a real mess of emotions so.
I want to add, they're actually also something that we see a lot
in clinic and also in our mother's groups is tracking apps
just in that newborn period. Tracking apps can be incredibly
helpful to just, like, understand a good routine when

(19:01):
it comes to feeding and wet nappies and breastfeeding, like
what side and all of those things and sleep.
And I think there's definitely Ause for them.
But I do also believe that you can overuse them and they can
come at a detriment to your mental health when you rely on
them so much, you know, well beyond the initial newborn

(19:21):
phase, it can take away from your own intuition as a mum.
And I think intuition is thrown around as this word where like,
yeah, we should just like know straight away what our baby
wants or needs. And it's not that simple.
And I can really, I really want to say that.
But the tracking can really kindof outsource the intuitive, like
bond and connection that you have with your baby.

(19:42):
And you, you probably have heardit a lot.
You know your baby best because you are with them 24/7.
And after those initial weeks oreven months, you understand your
baby's feeding cues and you know, there's sleeping cues and
you know, you, you get into a bit of a rhythm and of course
things change all the time. Sleep and feeding does change.

(20:03):
But I have seen often where those apps come at a price and
it starts to affect the the mental health of the mother in
in a way that she becomes more anxious and she really feels
like she can't let go of the tracking apps and really trust.
Her, her intuition or her instincts when it comes or her

(20:24):
just her learned rhythm and patterns with her baby and
really feels like that she needsto track everything.
So I think that that can I've seen it kind of swing both ways.
And it's not to say do or don't track.
Do what feels right and really reassuring for you, but also
check in with yourself and have conversations with, you know,
your partner or loved ones around that too, because you do

(20:47):
beyond anything like you form this connection with your baby
and you really, that's really, really important.
And to really understand that and and go with that.
I see a lot of the time when women stop tracking after a
period of time, they feel free. They feel like, Oh my gosh, I
didn't actually need to track because yeah, I do know my baby.
And it's almost like just this permission slip to let go.

(21:10):
It can feel really tricky to start with, but it there's like
this layer of like anxiety that almost gets released, if that
makes sense. No, I can definitely picture
that happening. I know friends that wear aura
rings and sort of things like that and they start tracking
absolutely every vital around themselves and if they wake up
and they're told they had a bad night's sleep.
Yeah. Then they suddenly feel like

(21:32):
they had a bad night's sleep, whether or not they were going
to wake up that way anyway. So I think sometimes data can
data is amazing, but it can sometimes get to a point where
it's like too much is too much, Yeah.
Yeah, that's a big one. I say with like the newborn
phase with others. Yeah, yeah.
You talk a lot online around nervous system regulation when
it comes to motherhood. What?

(21:54):
What do we need to be aware of with nervous system regulation
and what is it? How does it present?
How do you help your clients? Tell me everything.
Yeah, look, I know we we don't have all day and I literally
presented A5 hour workshop yesterday on nervous system and
even that just I said at the end, like it just kind of
scanned the surface of that. But I think when it comes to

(22:14):
motherhood, the first thing is to understand our nervous
systems. I think it, I think
understanding our nervous systems and our, and by
extension our bodies, our cycles, really tuning in is the
best thing that we can do as mothers and just as women, full
stop. Because our nervous systems and
our cycles and our bodies are constantly communicating with
us. And it's our job to listen.

(22:36):
And once we start to listen, we can start to implement tools.
So I think when it comes to nervous system regulation and
motherhood, firstly, understanding what a
dysregulated nervous system or an activated nervous system
looks like. So that's sympathetic dominance
when you're in that fight or flight stage, what that looks
like. So it can feel like a really

(22:59):
activated state. You're really, it's almost like
a heated state. I like to picture it as it's
this energy and the fight is when you have that irritable or
anger energy or that that urgency and you might feel a bit
more angry, a bit more ragey. You have a really, most people
have a really a tight chest, they're breathing really

(23:20):
shallow. They have a, a very quick
heartbeat. You could feel heat.
I know I certainly feel heat rising and it comes, you know, I
feel like kind of hot in the face and I snap more easily.
And that's a very common occurrence that can happen with
that. The flight is very similar, but
it feels more like you're fleeing, like you want to run
away or you want to busy yourself so much that you can't.

(23:44):
It feels unsafe to stop, feels unsafe to slow down.
You never, you have A to do listthat is never ending and you
don't. It feels really weird to do
nothing and you feel guilty for doing nothing.
And a lot of mothers will sit ineither of those chronically and
that's where burnout can come in.
But the other phase is freeze. And so the main phase has fawn

(24:07):
as well. But freeze is when everything
shuts down, essentially. And that's when you've kind of
done enough of the fight and flight and your nervous system
goes, OK, we actually can't sustain this any longer.
We're going to go into like a freeze or a dorsal vagal
shutdown is the other term for it.
And so that's where everything slows down and you want to
really sleep all the time. You're really tired.

(24:28):
You might feel numb. We numb ourselves out by
scrolling or, you know, having abig Netflix and chill day.
And, and those are really important things to consider.
And I definitely felt like that yesterday after coming down from
my nervous system workshop. I was like, oh, I'm in a Free
State right now and I just need to rest.
So it's really important to identify which state we're in.

(24:50):
It's not, it's not. The goal is not to be calm all
the time because that's not how our nervous system works.
We are going up and down these states all day long.
And so it's really normal to be activated and then to go down,
like up and down this ladder. It's called the Poly vagal
ladder that I, I teach. But we can, once we understand
our nervous systems and understand what triggers,
triggers us into those states, we can use tools to bring us

(25:13):
back into a more regulated statemore often.
So it's almost about widening that window of tolerance, but
not staying in that sympathetic activation all day long because
that is a recipe for burnout. And I'm sure, and I know you've
had a lot of experience with burnout as as have I.
And when I reflect back, it's because I've been in that

(25:34):
sympathetic dominant state for so long without adequate rest
and restoration and eventually hit that freeze or dorsal vagal
shutdown and gone, Oh my gosh, what's going on with me?
And, and sunk into depression aswell.
So I think for mothers, understanding that is the key.
So awareness is everything understanding.
I, I teach mothers to map their nervous systems and to

(25:55):
understand across even a few days or a week, where are they?
Where are they sitting? Where, what is their dominant
state? Because often we will have a
pretty dominant state. And then understanding what
tools can I use to bring myself back with a sympathetic state?
I like to not just go straight to breath.
Breath is amazing and it's a great tool.
But sometimes we need to get theenergy out in a fight or a

(26:16):
flight state. We need to, we need to let that
energy out. We need to move, we need to
shake, we need to dance, we needto stomp, we need to punch a
pillow, we need to throw socks at the wall.
We need to scream sometimes, youknow, vocalizing, doing all
those things. And we can do all that with our
children present. And I teach these skills.
They are not, you know, you needto go away for 10 days and reset

(26:38):
your nervous system. They are skills that we can do,
tools that we can do in the car after a daycare drop off.
We can do it in the kitchen as we're cooking dinner.
We can do it, you know, as we'rebathing our children when we're
feeling really overwhelmed. We don't have to get away and
escape our children necessarily.And the beautiful thing about
understanding how we use these tools and to shift this energy

(26:59):
and shake the energy out. We have dance parties at home is
that our children will, we are modelling to our children how to
remove this energy. I mean, children are very
intuitive and they do it all thetime anyway.
They're actually the OG intuitive, you know, eaters and
intuitive nervous system regulators anyway.
But it's beautiful to see this unfold in front of my children

(27:19):
and seeing them shake it out andto punch them pillows when they
feel frustrated or whatnot. So that's a really beautiful
thing to do first and then ground back in.
So breath is the gateway for thenervous system.
So slowing down the breath, really understanding that if we
can, you know, really lengthen those exhales, there is so many
different types of breath that you can do.
But to keep it really simple to get into that parasympathetic or

(27:42):
rest and digest regulated state,we just want to really exhale,
lengthen those exhales. And that's as simple as it needs
to be to find that space to I guess bring in some mindfulness
there as you're doing that to reorient yourself to the room.
You know, just those simple things of five things I can see
four things I can smell, you know, that kind of thing.

(28:03):
Feel yourself, you know, ground back in and you can again, you
can do that with your children. They teach them in daycare this
as well about sniffing the flower and blowing out the
candle. And they teach that at daycare,
which is amazing. And we do that at home And we,
we teach, I teach my girls who are 4 and 1 1/2 how to do that.

(28:26):
And sometimes my 4 year old tells me, Mummy, you need to
breathe. And I'm like, touché, I know I
do. So I think like it's not rocket
science. It's not, you know, I think we
want like a a pill to fix our nervous system sometimes or
like, what is the one like hack that we can do?
And actually, it's about layering in these really small,

(28:49):
tiny micro moments of regulationacross the day, coming back to
ourselves again and again and again, back into our bodies,
back into our breath, back into feeling, which a lot of us
dissociate and stop feeling for a very good reason.
It's a survival mechanism, but really understanding.
So that's, I guess the simplest way that I can put it, but

(29:10):
that's what I teach moms in all my coaching work and all the
workshops that I do and, and allof that in how to get back into
relationship with our bodies, our, and our nervous systems.
Yeah, there is so much that you've just covered there.
And I want to come back to the menstrual cycle.
I want to come back to burnout. But before we move forward from
this, I think it's so refreshingto just hear how accessible

(29:34):
these tools can be and that theycan be done with the kids around
in the car with a pillow. Like it doesn't have to be OK, I
need to go on a 10 day retreat like you said, or I need to go
and see my therapist to work through this in person.
And that modelling is so powerful too.
And it sounds like your daughter's are already throwing
it back at you And you're like, I know I need to breathe, but

(29:56):
but like, how cool is that? So cool.
So it's I'm so proud and I thinkit just shows the power of our
children, like their little nervous systems absorb
everything, right? And that can feel really
pressure. Y right.
It can feel like, oh, it's another thing that we need to
think of as mothers and I get that.

(30:16):
But it'll also can feel really empowering when you can
understand that the more that you understand this yourself,
the more that your nervous system can change.
And they feel right. They feel with their nervous
systems. The first like 7 years we are
layering their, their little nervous systems.
They are learning what feels safe and what doesn't.

(30:39):
And they are learning via Co regulation with us.
And so we can say one thing, butour nervous system can say the
opposite. So it doesn't matter about what
the words are really that are coming out of our mouths.
I mean, it does, but it's more about how we say it and what the
energy our nervous system and our bodies are is executing

(30:59):
essentially. So when you understand that and
you start to work on yourself asa mother, the ripple effect is
profound. And not only to our children,
but even to our partners and to our our friends and whatnot.
So it's, it's amazing, amazing work.
And it's simple, it's layered, it's nuanced, but it's it's
powerful. Yeah, I know a little high

(31:21):
achievers listen to this podcastand we're all guilty of thinking
that, you know, we want the A+, we want perfection, We want calm
nervous system at all times and just remembering that none of
those things are actually truly possible.
And to just lift that weight offyour shoulders because we can't
be chasing that as the goal. And that sort of regulation of

(31:41):
self and modelling in front of our kids and things like that.
That's the true gift. Because I'm sure there's also
harm we can do for our kids if we do let them believe for
whatever reason that we are perfect.
That's going to set them up for failure too, because then they
need to meet these unrealistic expectations.
And absolutely I. Couldn't agree more.
And I think to show our humanness to our children and

(32:05):
our babies is really important. And that means sometimes losing
our cool. It means sometimes, you know, it
means expressing emotion and seeing frustrations, seeing
anger and seeing and expressed in a healthy way.
Because yeah, as you say, if we don't ever express emotion and
seeing sadness, seeing tears, seeing these emotions, emotions

(32:29):
are neutral. We just, you know, have put on,
we've, we've made some good and some bad.
And I think that if we just kindof reframe that and think every
single emotion, sadness, grief, anger, sit identically next to
joy and happiness and excitementand they're not good and they're

(32:50):
not bad. And that's what I really try and
teach my children. And when my children do see me
cry or they see me upset, I talkto them about what's going on
and I, I name it to tame it. Another, another tool so simple,
but mommy is feeling frustrated.And it's, I don't say like that.
It's usually mommy is feeling frustrated.
And you know, I really need to release this frustration.

(33:13):
Like let's go, like hit some pillows or let's go, you know,
throw socks at a wall or whatever.
And also even when I snap at them because that will happen.
And that's it. Like we don't want to.
Again, it's something I talk about all the time with the
perfect mother myth, which has been coined by Doctor Sophie
Brock. It's we don't want to be perfect

(33:34):
because it leads our children tothink that that's how they
should be. And so when we snap, which we
inevitably will, we we rupture and we repair.
And actually our children need to see repair.
They need to see that process happen.
It's only damaging if we rupturewithout repair.
And so to build that beautiful secure attachment that we're all

(33:55):
chasing, the research literally shows us that we we need to be
attuned like not 100% of the time.
And so it kind of gives us that little bit of exhale, a little
bit of like, oh, I don't need todo this perfectly.
I just need to be attuned to my children like not even 100% of
the time. And it's OK for them to
sometimes cry a little bit of if, you know, have these

(34:16):
emotions. And when you have multiple
children, you can't meet their needs 100% of the time
immediately either. So, you know, learning this and
learning about rupture and repair and learning that, you
know, you make mistakes and thenwatching you is so, so
important. And yeah, I just always come
back to my 4 year old who is my forever teacher.
And she, she asked me the the most wild things, like, Mommy,

(34:39):
do you still love me when I'm sad?
And, you know, Mommy, I was really frustrated today.
And, you know, we talk about it.I'm like, of course, like I love
you no matter what. And she she asked that a little
while ago and now it's kind of her little monologue has changed
and she's mommy, I was sad today, but I know that you still
love me. And like, I am brought to tears

(35:01):
like this is when we're lying inbed at night and I'm getting her
to sleep. And I was frustrated.
But I know that my mom, I know that you still love me.
And my mum takes her one day a week.
And the other day she was like having a tantrum or something
was happening. And she after she kind of came
out of that, which by the way was her nervous system
regulating once she came out of that and she came back to
grounding and she said to my mum, my mummy still loves me

(35:24):
when I'm sad or when I'm when I'm angry.
And my mum said that to me. And she said, Oh, my gosh, like
Elkie said this to me. And I was just like, this is the
work. This is like, I feel so
emotional just talking about it.Like, this is the work, right?
Like, so beautiful. And I mean, we're doing it for
us as mothers, but we're doing it for our children as well.

(35:47):
And yeah, it's just so important.
Yeah, I can feel that. Yeah, I can feel that.
You talked about burnout before.Yeah, I feel like a lot of the
recent listeners have experienced burnout at some
point in their careers. Does that mean they're more
likely to experience it in motherhood as well?

(36:09):
Yes, short answer, yes, absolutely.
Because those, those traits, I think like, you know, there's
certain personality types, as you would know, that are more
prone to burnout and a lot of those, you know, perfectionistic
type A personalities. Although I feel like there is a
lot of women, not everyone, but a lot of women.

(36:30):
And this is due to conditioning and due to, you know, being
conditioned to be the good girl and to never feel angry and to
always smile. And, you know, we have really
internalized that conditioning as little girls, you know,
through no fault of anyone, through basically the fault of
our society as a whole. But we've internalized that

(36:50):
conditioning. And so, yeah, we, we seek that
out in, in motherhood then, you know, and often we come into
motherhood as, as high achieversand as women who have had
beautiful careers. And it's, it's interesting, I
observe this a lot in the work that I do with just the mothers
groups that I run and the clients that I see.
And, you know, the women I, I meet in my clinic.

(37:13):
And we've had wildly successful careers before becoming a
mother. You know, the age of motherhood
has really pushed out now. I think it's sitting at 31 at
the moment in Australia. And that's because we have
established our careers 1st. And so we have climbed that
corporate ladder or we have, youknow, established these

(37:33):
beautiful businesses ourselves or we have, you know, almost
kind of hit that success before we have children.
And to do that, we've worked really hard.
So a lot of us are not afraid towork hard.
We do what it takes to achieve, right.
And then, you know, if we want that pay rise or if we want to
increase our revenue or our profit margins, we just work

(37:53):
harder. And so there's this element of
control that we are very used toin our lives prior to children.
But the process of becoming pregnant, sometimes that's where
the surrender needs to come in. Sometimes it's in pregnancy
itself. But the process of like
pregnancy and birth, the way that child wants to come in, we

(38:15):
can only control so much. And the way that our body
changes in pregnancy, I mean, that's again, wildly fluctuates
between individuals and the way that our motherhood journey
unfolds. There is only so much that we
can control our baby. We cannot control our baby the
way that we maybe think that we can.
And we can't control their sleepand we can't control the way

(38:37):
they feed and we can't control their temperament as much as we
society tells us that we can andshould.
So that feels really disarming to a lot of mothers.
And that's where that lack of control can feel overwhelming.
And that's where I see a lot of mothers who are more prone to

(38:58):
burnout, type A perfectionistic who has so used to just being
able to control things, they come undone.
And So what they think is that it's their failing that they
can't control their baby or their baby's not sleeping or
feeding the way that they shouldor whatever.
Insert whatever thing that you think a baby should be doing or

(39:20):
even the way that you should be as a mother, right?
And so when that inevitably something happens that is not
aligned to what our expectation is, we feel the need to, oh,
it's our fault. And we internalize that as our
individual fault. So we try harder and we go, oh,

(39:40):
it must be me. I'm going to try harder.
I'm going to invest in this, this person, this professional,
this app, this device, this method of, you know, getting
into sleep or whatever, insert whatever it is.
And again, outsource. I need to outsource.
There's a common thread here too.
And then it's, you know, it's try harder and that leads to

(40:02):
burnout that leads to an over activated nervous system that
leads to that chronic sympathetic dominance that leads
to and all these then you know, the Physiology behind that in
terms of the stresses, the cortisol, the adrenaline that
goes then to physical manifestations.
You know, hormonal issues, thyroid issues, IBS, you know,

(40:24):
mental health issues. It's this complete domino
effect. So to answer your question, yes,
there is absolute more, more people are prone to burnout in
motherhood if they are prone to burnout beforehand.
But there's a lot that we can doto really support those mothers,
and that's where the magic is. I think there is so much that
can be done to support. Yeah, so if someones listening

(40:44):
right now and they're like ooh, that feels very much like the
depths of what I mean right now.Who should they be reaching out
to? I'm sure your clinic can
definitely help. Yeah, but there's some resources
they should be looking at online.
Do you have any recommendations of just where to start?
What's the Yeah, I think. It depends on like what
specifically is going on for mental health in general.

(41:07):
A resource I love to point to aspanda.
So just Googling panda PANDA, they have a lot of free
resources there and free mental health support as well.
There's some beautiful like freecounselling that you can get,
which I find a lot of mothers don't know about.
And then there is obviously likereaching out to a psychologist.

(41:27):
Our clinic has psychologists there as well.
But also even just if it's breastfeeding, for example,
they're the ABA, Australian Breastfeeding Association has so
many free resources. They have a free hotline as
well, which you can ring up and just get reassurance at any
time. You know, child health nurses
are amazing. Aside from that, we have a

(41:48):
clinic full of dedicated health professionals to to help you.
And if you are local, we have actually launched recently a
drop in clinic where our midwifeup to seven weeks postpartum.
It's a bulk build drop in clinic.
So you can come in and get your,get yourself seen, get your baby
seen, understand if you're breastfeeding is going well, if

(42:10):
your wound is healing the way itneeds to, all of that for free.
So that's an amazing resource. We have, as I said,
psychologists, we have lactationsupport, we have nutritionist
neutropathy, we have acupuncture, we have a whole
host of professionals. Obviously if you're local,
that's all available. But we do offer telehealth as
well for Australia wide for nutrition, neutropathy, all of

(42:33):
those things. But yeah, we are here.
We are here to support and thereare, there are many resources
available and finding community I think is really important too.
We run mothers groups, half are local participants and half are,
you know, they travel to be a part of our mother's groups,
which is like phenomenal. But every area has mothers
groups. And I think connecting in like

(42:54):
connection is so important in motherhood.
Just connecting in with someone going through the same stage as
you is I cannot speak to its importance.
Human connection and shared, like sometimes we just want to
be validated in our struggle andnot to be fixed.
And sometimes like whilst husbands are amazing, they just

(43:15):
want to fix and sometimes we just need to be heard and gone.
You know what? That sounds so tough, and I see
you and I hear you, and that's it.
And I'm just going to sit in themud with you and I'm.
Going to sit there with you. And that's what mother's groups
are about. That's what, you know, having
friends in that same stage of motherhood is about, you know,

(43:37):
actually being seen and not pretending, not pretending like
I'm OK when I'm really not. Like, I have this, this rule in
our mothers group. Like, you're not allowed to
pretend. You come in and you say what's
on your mind. And if you cry, that's so fun.
Every emotion is welcome here. But it's not a space to hold up
a mask. It's a space to be real.
And you feel this, like, sense of relief as I say that at the

(44:00):
start of every term because there is a lot of emotional
release. And there is like, Oh my God, me
too. And the thing I think that's
really important here is this isfar, you know, kind of
tangenting off your question. But I just want to say that I'm
in the privileged position to work in this space and to speak
to so many mothers every day. And what I've seen over the last

(44:23):
4 1/2 years and literally hundreds of mothers is that
their struggles are not, they'renot alone in their struggles.
They are not in isolation. We think that we are alone and
we think that we are the only one going through a struggle,
whatever it looks like, in motherhood.
And I think that's perpetuated by social media and so many
other things. But I have been in this

(44:45):
privileged position to sit, you know, alongside hundreds of
mothers and to facilitate groups.
And there are some same themes that come up time and time
again. And so I think reiterating that
you are not alone, you are not broken, There is nothing wrong
with you if you are finding this, this season challenging
because it is challenging. It's a lot.

(45:07):
It can also be extremely exciting.
And your heart is bigger than it's ever been.
And the joy that you experience is beyond your wildest dreams.
There are so many glimmers and beautiful moments, but it sits
alongside the duality of grief and overwhelm and, you know,

(45:28):
missing a part of yourself as well and, and not truly knowing
who you are anymore. And so I think just, you know,
understanding that you're not alone.
I, I can tell, I can tell you just hand on heart that you are
not alone. And so I think that's really
important to to remember in a motherhood journey as well.
And I think that word duality isreally important because it can

(45:49):
be so confusing that you're holding such contrasting
emotions simultaneously. Yeah, absolutely.
And it sounds like the type of mothers groups you facilitate a
really safe, open, vulnerable spaces.
But I know I've spoken to a few friends who have gone to mothers
groups in the past, not yours, but and they said for the first

(46:12):
few months everyone comes and paints this picture of this
rosy. Perfect experience as a new mom.
And I know my friend said she was sitting there thinking, am I
the only one that's struggling with this whole list of things?
Am I broken? Am I not doing good enough?
And she said eventually one day she just snapped and had to open

(46:33):
up and be vulnerable. And then suddenly, surprise,
surprise, the whole group opens up that they've been feeling
this way too. And so I think for any new moms
listening, it's really hopefullyreassuring to know that, OK,
you're not alone, like you said,and go and maybe be the brave
one to be vulnerable first because you're then going to

(46:54):
pave that path for everyone elsearound you to feel safe to
share. And it doesn't mean you need to
go and just say all the negativeparts of motherhood.
You're allowed to share the goodas well because, again, that
duality, but just feeling safe to be your whole self in those
environments is what brings thattrue magic.
Yeah. Absolutely, in our mother's

(47:15):
group, their very first session,we go round and do you know the
introductions and then we go, what's the most like, what's
your favorite part of motherhoodso far?
Like or the journey like even inpregnancy or whatever.
And then everyone says that. And then we go, what is the most
challenging part? And everyone goes around and
sometimes it's the fertility journey, sometimes it's
pregnancy, sometimes it's the birth, sometimes it's the

(47:36):
feeding. But everyone has something.
Everyone has something that theywant to share and that's where
the tears come because these it's so raw and it's so big and
sometimes you haven't even had achance to sit with an experience
like birth that maybe hasn't gone the way that you were
anticipated or whatever it is. And as you say, once one, one

(47:57):
person opens up, it gives permission for everyone else.
And that's why I always lead with my own journey and my own
story because I believe and I dothis on my own social media and
in anything that I present like I have been through so many
challenges in my motherhood journey.
I've experienced so many ups anddowns.
And I share in the hopes to, youknow, invite that vulnerability

(48:21):
from others too. I, I hold online coaching
containers for mothers where, you know, they might not be
brand new mothers, but they're, you know, they're within the
first kind of five years generally of their motherhood
journey. And it's still tricky.
It's not just the early postpartum, you know, I actually
find a lot of mums coming to me 1218 months, two years, three

(48:42):
years, four years post and go, I'm lost.
I don't know who I am anymore. And so I hold these containers,
these coaching containers. And yeah, we are, we are
vulnerable in those containers and the tears that come and the
stuff that we share in our groupSlack daily.
But again, it, it is initiated by my vulnerability.

(49:02):
And I always share because I'm like, I get it.
I am with you in this. I have a four year old and a one
year old. Like I'm in the trenches with
you guys and I'm experiencing this as well.
And I understand. And so it's important to show
everything, not just the best bits.
And it's so important to show the best bits, but I think also
so important to to share the vulnerability too.

(49:24):
Yeah. And I think it's again, a nice
reminder that you, someone who has all the tools, all the
resources, the multidisciplinaryteam around you, still
experiences the roller coaster that comes with being a parent.
Absolutely and everyone will no matter no matter what.
And and that's the beauty. Like knowing these tools, it
just puts me on a bit of a different trajectory.

(49:46):
And even now, you know, a coupleof years after really embodying
these tools that I now teach, I,I see these changes in how maybe
my day would have been after an intense daycare drop off and
what my nervous system, you know, would do versus now.
I still go into fight or flight after a drop off, but I have the

(50:08):
tools to come back into myself before my day at work begins.
And I look at this like, oh, past Emma would have like been
in that, you know, fight or flight all day long and being,
you know, really sympatheticallyactivated all day and blah,
blah, blah. And then now I know how to drop
it back into my body and my breath and I, I move my body and

(50:29):
I get that energy out and I comeback into grounding before I
start my day of clients or whatever my day holds.
And I think it's not in day. So whilst, you know, it's always
going to be chaotic, raising children is chaos.
And it's not about removing the chaos.
It's about, you know, widening your window of tolerance so that
you can come back more often to a state of regulation and come

(50:52):
back to your body more often, never being perfect.
It's not about being perfect andnever being calm all the time.
It's helping yourself and helping your nervous system and
understanding yourself enough toyet to come back to that state
and then lead from that state aswell.
Yeah. Menstrual cycles spoke about it

(51:13):
a bit earlier that for some women it's stay, you don't get
your period again while you're breastfeeding.
For some people it comes back straight away.
Can you talk to me around? I'm sure there's no normal, but
what is more common I suppose when it does come to menstrual
cycles after having a baby? Yes.
So yeah, there's, there's a lot on this.
And I think I see many differentversions of this show up in my

(51:36):
my clinic. I think we, what is really
common is that our cycles will come back again, depending on
your own hormones and even your genetics, your cycle may come
back only when you finish breastfeeding, which may take
1218 months, like whenever you finish breastfeeding.
That was me. They pretty much couldn't be

(51:58):
producing a drop of breast milk and then my cycle was like, OK,
we're going to come back now. Other women will get their cycle
back six weeks postpartum and beexclusively breastfeeding.
So there is a lot of variation. All of that is normal once we
get our periods back, though. What I see commonly is that
cycles will shift to more, I guess, symptomatic than they

(52:20):
were maybe prior to conceiving. So it might be whether the cycle
itself is longer or shorter, whether there is more intense
PMS symptoms in that luteal phase.
So leading into your bleed. I see that a lot.
All of a sudden your mood is debilitating, whether it's
debilitating with depression or low mood or anxiety, insomnia,

(52:45):
breast tenderness, headaches, histamine responses.
There's so many bloating like, you know, Constipation,
diarrhea, all the different things, even acne, skin changes.
There's so much that can happen in that luteal phase.
So anything mood is probably thebiggest one that I see that that
women are really struggling with.
That really starts to be perpetuated commonly postpartum.

(53:08):
And then the bleed will start tobecome a little bit more
painful, more clotty, more heavy.
And whilst that is really common, I think it is not
normal. And I will shout that from the
rooftops until the day that I die and so many women come into
our clinic going, my cycle's changed and what can I do about
it? And they've been prescribed

(53:29):
maybe the pill or an antidepressant.
And whilst those things can be helpful, they are not treating
the root cause. So they are not treating the
underlying driver of that, whichis a variety of different things
depending on the individual. But we're looking at that
balance of hormones, but in thatluteal phase generally, and
where is your estrogen at and where is your progesterone at,

(53:49):
boils down to that. And how are they being
detoxified by the liver? And often mothers will need some
help with that postpartum, they'll need some help with some
estrogen detoxification, which is very individualized, and they
potentially need some help with progesterone production as well.
And basically, when you can get those two hormones in a better
ratio, then a lot of those symptoms will disappear

(54:12):
altogether or they'll be greatlyreduced with no need for the
pill to take your cycles offlineor to shut your hormones down or
an antidepressant. There's lots of things that we
can do, but the, I guess shame in all of this is that I, I
don't think enough women know this.
I don't think enough women actually know that this can be

(54:36):
supported. And I was just, I was speaking
to a woman yesterday at my eventand she has PMDD and she said,
look, my only choices so far hasbeen the pill.
And I don't want to take it. I don't want to shut my hormones
down. I'm on the Marina.
It's still not doing anything. And I've just been prescribed an
antidepressant and I'm feeling side effects from that.
I'm getting headaches. I've had a, I've had a headache

(54:57):
for two weeks since starting it.And she's like, what can I do?
And I'm like, please come into our clinic.
There is so much that we can do here.
And also depending on your individual biochemistry and what
your nutrients are and what yourstress levels are and like what
your blood sugar is, what your thyroid is doing, there's so
much that can impact this picture.

(55:20):
But she didn't know. And she's in my sphere.
She's like, obviously come to myevents, you know?
So I just, as I said, I will shout it from the rooftops.
It is so important that women understand this.
And it pains me to see women in pain and to be suffering.
There's nothing worse than two weeks out of your cycle having a
debilitating mood issue when it's hormonally driven.

(55:42):
We need to look at hormones. We don't need to look at any
depressants. Yeah.
I know we talked before that sometimes too much knowledge can
be a detriment, but I think in this case, it's actually such a
gift to not just have this Band-Aid blanket approach and
it's like, let's do the blood work, let's test your hormones,
let's see what picture and like baseline that we're actually

(56:02):
working with. And it can be pretty quick to
make changes from therein. Yeah, which is really lovely to
be reminded of. Beautiful.
Yeah. Yeah, I always say within one to
three cycles is the general timeframe that we're looking at that
we see clinically that it can match, that we can make changes.
And the beautiful thing about this is we're modulating, we're
supporting your system. We're not band aiding it.

(56:25):
So when we do these things and we support your system, once we
take them away, things won't go back to how they were.
We're actually changing your biochemistry, we're repleting
your nutrients, we're changing the way your thyroid functions.
We are, you know, changing the way that your liver is
detoxifying that estrogen. So yeah, when we take these
supplements or these nutraceuticals or whatever it is

(56:45):
away, things don't go back, which is the beautiful thing.
And people just can't believe it.
They're like, I didn't know these things were so powerful.
Yes, they are. And they work pretty.
Quickly. Yeah, Yeah, I'm hearing that a
lot from everything we've discussed today, that you're not
alone. There are solutions.
Ask for help. Help exists.

(57:05):
Absolutely, Yeah, Yeah, yeah. Again, I want mums to know that,
yeah. Like we, we take on this
pressure as mums, I think, or aswomen in general, but then like
when we become mothers and we internalize it as our own fault.
And so that's the, the, to breakthat shame cycle, to break that
guilt shame cycle. And that myth that is part of

(57:28):
my, my life's work. And it is fuelled by not only my
own lived experience in motherhood, but my experience
in, in the clinical work that I do and the coaching work that I
do, constant conversations with mothers who are living these
lives and having these symptoms.And then, you know, being

(57:48):
treated for them or, you know, being supported through them and
coming out and going, Oh my gosh, this is life changing.
I've had husbands write to me and go, I needed to tell you,
this has changed our life. My, my wife is a different
person after working with you. It's changed the energy of our
family. And so this work, I will say it

(58:10):
once and I will say it 1000 times, when you support the
mother, you support the world. And it's true, mothers are the
centre of the world. Without them, the world will not
keep turning. And so it's time, I think our
society is slowly shifting. It won't happen completely even
in our lifetime, but slowly, slowly, we are recognizing the

(58:33):
importance of mothers and the importance of supporting them,
truly supporting them holistically, not just the way
their body functions, but their mind, their emotions, their
energy and their, yeah, their, even their spirituality.
Supporting them in all, all facets.

(58:53):
Because when you support the mum, you support the community,
support the world. It's a, it's a domino effect.
And we're raising these little people.
It's the most important job in the world.
And so when we can have that impact on those little people
and they grow up and see these mothers who are listening to
themselves, who are resting, whoare not bending over backwards

(59:13):
and self sacrificing, who are, you know, modeling this
behaviour and modeling, you know, emotional regulation and
modeling rupture and repair. Like, Can you imagine what the
next few generations are going to look like and how, yeah, how
the world will hopefully, hopefully be in a couple of

(59:35):
decades when these little peoplegrow up?
Yeah, well, thank you for doing not just a small, but a huge
part in in creating that change and creating those ripples.
And I think everyone that's listened to this podcast today,
whether they are a parent or whether they plan to be a parent
or no, a parent like it's it's going to change lives on a on a

(59:56):
really large scale to Emma, is there anything we haven't
discussed today that you want toleave listeners with?
You're not alone in whatever you're going through, no matter
how bad it is, no matter how overwhelmed you feel, you're not
alone. And there's support there.
And yeah, even in that postpartum journey when the dust
has settled and your support hasdried up, which it will,

(01:00:17):
sometimes you need support even more at six months postpartum,
at 12 months postpartum than youdid in the first six weeks.
And it's there, the support is there.
And that is my life's work. And now I support mothers
through that. So I guess if you are listening
to this and you're, you know, you're in the trenches and then
you're you're in those first fewyears and you have one or two or

(01:00:38):
three or seven babies and you are not feeling yourself for,
you know, you're thinking, is this it is this what my life is
now? And you're not feeling the way
you think you should or there issupport there.
And that is the reason I run my coaching.
I do three or six months coaching containers where I hold

(01:00:59):
mothers. Through these experiences, we
get to communicate together as agroup and that is just powerful
within itself. And I do group coaching where we
do nervous system embodiment. We learn about our nervous
systems as one-on-one support and care via my team where we
track blood pathology and we understand what your nutrients
are doing. And I've created these programs

(01:01:20):
to be accessible. We've got women literally even
overseas in them and so that is accessible.
You don't need to be local to tobe involved in that.
So there's support, there's support there, but it's just
asking for help and and reachingout.
Yeah, beautiful. And to make that help a little
bit easier, we'll put links to your social media, your website,

(01:01:41):
everything, all the good stuff in the show notes so people can
reach out to you. And I know even if all they do
is follow you on Instagram, they're going to gain so much
knowledge. And then whether they want to
come and see you guys in person or join some of your online
support groups, then the option are there.
So, Emma, thank you. Thank you so much for having me,
I could talk for hours on this as you can probably tell.

(01:02:02):
This has been wonderful, thank you.