In this episode of Resilience and Relationships (R&R), Stephanie Olson and Rebecca Saunders have a candid, heartfelt conversation about political violence and the growing culture of dehumanization. From high-profile assassinations to everyday online attacks, they discuss how public and private lives are being invaded, boundaries are crossed, and respectful disagreement is fading.
Together, they call for a return to active listening, peaceful dialogue, and the recognition that every person has intrinsic value that cannot be changed. Through personal reflections, survivor insight, and cultural analysis, this episode challenges listeners to resist hatred, rethink how we engage across differences, and reclaim kindness and dignity in our communities.
Everyone has resilience, but what does that mean, and how do we use it in life and leadership? Join Stephanie Olson, an expert in resiliency and trauma, every week as she talks to other experts living lives of resilience. Stephanie also shares her own stories of addictions, disordered eating, domestic and sexual violence, abandonment, and trauma, and shares the everyday struggles and joys of everyday life. As a wife, mom, and CEO she gives commentaries and, sometimes, a few rants to shed light on what makes a person resilient. So, if you have experienced adversity in life in any way and want to learn how to better lead your family, your workplace, and, well, your life, this podcast is for you!
https://setmefreeproject.net
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Unknown (00:00):
Foreign.
Stephanie Olson (00:17):
Hello and welcome to resilience and
relationships R and R. I amStephanie Olson, here with
Rebecca Saunders, yes, and weare so glad to be with you
today. We're going to talk aboutnot a very light topic today,
right? We're going to talk aboutpolitical violence. And although
(00:41):
I hate talking about this. Ithink it's part of something we
do, as far as you know, our workin in essay and and HT and all
of that stuff. And so I thinkit, it fits appropriately in, in
some of what we're going to talkabout,
Unknown (00:58):
it does. And before we really get started in the
conversation. I think it'simportant to note too, that as
an organization, we don't take ahard political stance, and we
have varying opinions within ourorganization. Absolutely, we are
not about to say this is how youshould feel, or we support this
view or this view. Yeah. What ishappening when those views are
(01:18):
expressed wrong
Stephanie Olson (01:21):
in a wrong, violent way, right? Pause, plug
this in.
Unknown (01:31):
Okay, there we go, one of those things,
Stephanie Olson (01:35):
yes, and, yeah, no, I agree 100% and, and I'm
sorry, but there is just a rightand wrong in this for sure. So
we are coming off of so manypolitical whether, well,
(01:57):
assassinations, certainly. Andwe just want to talk about that,
because recently, Charlie Kirk,who is a very was a very public
conservative spokesperson, wasshot and killed at a an event in
Utah, and so that that wasreally striking thing at the
(02:21):
same time, almostsimultaneously, there was a
shooting at one of the DenverPublic Schools that was
happening at the same time. Wealso are kind of on the heels
that in August, there was a manwho just stood up and stabbed a
(02:44):
woman and killed her on a bus inCharlotte. And we also have
recently, Democratic StateRepresentative Melissa Hortman
and her husband were killed by atragic shooting, and Senator
John Hoffman and his wife werewounded in a targeted political
(03:05):
violent act. And I think we justwant to address that. Because
regardless of what side you areon, right or left, white or
black, all the things, I mean, Icould say all the things that
have brought division in ourcountry lately. Violence against
(03:30):
a human being is wrong. It'snever the answer. It's never the
answer. And you know, I thinkit's so important, because one
of the things that we teach, andthe foundation of everything we
teach is you have an intrinsicvalue that can't be changed,
that it doesn't matter who youare, what you look like, where
you live, how much money youhave or don't have you haven't
(03:53):
Yes, your beliefs, yeah, youhave an intrinsic value that
cannot be changed. And I wasspeaking at a conference
yesterday, and I said, so, youknow, we all know that, and look
to your right, look to yourleft. Everybody has an intrinsic
value. But then I asked, does,and this was a multi
(04:17):
disciplinary group, so therewere a lot of forensic
interviewers, law enforcementadvocates, people who work on
the front lines. These are samenurses. These were amazing
people who do great work. Andone of the things that I asked
them was, what about theperpetrators that we're dealing
(04:40):
with. And one of the lawenforcement officers said, no,
they do not and, and he wasbeing facetious, but the reality
is, and we all agreed, everybodyhas an intrinsic value that
can't be changed. Everyone hashuman dignity. Everybody has
worth. And. Unfortunately, thatdoesn't mean that everybody is
(05:03):
doing the right thing, right. Itdoesn't mean that we don't have
consequences to our actions, orif we're doing something wrong,
it's not an evil thing thatwe've done. I mean, I'm not
saying any of that, but the factthat we are human beings gives
us that human dignity. And Ithink we're in this season where
(05:27):
we're just dehumanizing peoplebecause of what they believe or
what they look like even.
Unknown (05:33):
And I yeah, I think that's the root of the issue. Is
just we're not seeing that valuein people. Because if you were
to look at everyone as peoplewith that value, then you can't
go on to do some of these thingsthat we're seeing.
Stephanie Olson (05:48):
No, no human life is, is precious and and we
look at, for example, CharlieKirk, who was shot in public,
and Irina zaruska. I'm not sureif I'm saying her name
correctly, but was stabbed onpublic transit. We have video of
(06:12):
those things, and so because ofthat, we have seen, and I think
that's one of the the changestoday in in our world, is that,
you know, even with schoolshootings were not a thing when
I was going to school, we didn'thave school shooting drills.
(06:33):
Those were not something thathappened. And even though
schools typically don't have ordo have cameras, and you can see
maybe the shooter enter. Or, youknow, we had that shooting at
von Mar in Omaha several,several years ago. You can see
the shooter entering, but theyhave not shown anyone getting
(07:01):
shot until recently, and I thinkthat makes it extra difficult,
because in in the case of thetwo I just mentioned, Charlie
Kirk and Irina zarutska, thosefamily members have that have to
see that
Unknown (07:23):
I can't imagine. I mean, it's hard enough Losing
Someone You Love, but then tohave that, not just on video to
see once, but on every newsstation and playing over and
over. I mean, yeah, that'straumatic in itself,
Stephanie Olson (07:39):
right? It really is. And so, you know, one
of the things that we weresaying before we talked about
this is we're not even going totalk about the circumstances
around it, or the, you know,whether you agree with people or
don't agree. We're talking aboutpeople who are conservative,
(08:02):
people who are liberal, andpeople we don't know really
anything about, but a woman whois from Ukraine, and it really
isn't about what we believe itit really is about We have got
to be able to have conversationsand have dialog and not respond
(08:27):
with this violence.
Unknown (08:32):
And I think that we're seeing, especially through these
things, that we have videofootage of some of these things
that have happened, right? Andwe're seeing just how
desensitized a lot of us are tothat violence. When you can take
a video of someone being killedand then make light of it,
Stephanie Olson (08:54):
it's horrifying, actually. You know
what is really interesting wasmy sister saw it on social
media, and her first responsewas, Geez, that is a sick thing
to do with AI. That's that'swhat she thought. And then
realized that, nope, this isreal and happening in real time
(09:19):
and and then people celebrateit. People are celebrating
violence and celebrating and Ijust, uh, it hurts my heart. It
really does. It hurts my heart.
And so we've got people on bothsides of the aisle, people who
(09:40):
don't deserve to die, and whoare doing what they believe is
right. And here's the thing, andthis is, you know, I was
thinking about this the otherday, we cannot be. Uh, you know,
I come from a Jewish family, andwhen I think about the Holocaust
(10:05):
and what was perpetrated on theJewish people, we can't go back
there. And I really think thatthere is so much that you know
because you believe this, orbecause you do this, or you look
like this, or whatever it maybe, we are dangerously close to
(10:30):
repeating some of those actions.
Unknown (10:41):
I completely agree with you. I think some might take
that statement of comparing, youknow, some of the things we're
seeing to the Holocaust asdramatic, but I don't think so.
It may not look exactly thesame, but a lot of those
elements are there, thatdevaluing of people who are
different from you. We're seeingthat time and time again from
people on both sides of thepolitical spectrum.
Stephanie Olson (11:01):
Well, Hitler didn't start with gas chambers,
right? We know that. Yeah, hitit's a slow fade. And Hitler
started to poison the minds ofpeople who aren't like what he
(11:22):
wanted, and that, that is theslow fade that happens, and I
certainly hope it never gets tothat ever, ever Again, but
that's how it starts, thisdehumanizing human beings, and
(11:43):
frankly, I'm sorry that goes onboth sides, both parties are at
fault for those things, and allraces can be for at fault for
those things. And I just thinkwe have to be so careful to
(12:06):
really not dehumanize people.
Bottom line,
Unknown (12:15):
yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, I'm I'm glad
that you mentioned too that itcan be both sides, because it
is. And I think right now,especially in the light of
Charlie Kirk's passing, a lot ofconservatives pointing fingers,
you know, what you're seeing inone moment can be totally
(12:37):
opposite the next moment, right?
We can look at one situation andwe can say, Oh, well, it's this
group of people. But in reality,I mean, if we just even take the
last year, we'll look at whatelse every group is at fault
here. Yes, it's a human problem.
It's a that's a great way, it isa human problem.
Stephanie Olson (13:03):
I had the opportunity to meet with a
couple of our staff membersbecause I was speaking at a
conference, and we are all overthe place, nationally, and so we
don't get to see each other veryoften, and I was speaking at a
conference in the same statethat they were in, so I got to
have dinner with them, and wewere talking about this, and I
(13:26):
said, I think there were, like,literally, three political
parties at the table. There werethree of us at the table. There
were three political parties atthe table. I believe. I don't
even know that for a fact,because I don't know, but one of
the staff members was askingabout Charlie Kirk, and she
said, I don't agree with a thingthat he says, but what happened
(13:54):
to him was horrific and shouldhave never happened. And that's
I think, you know, when we lookat like Gavin Newsom came out
and said, This is Obama andBernie Sanders coming out
against the violence, like wedon't get to do that. We don't
get to take people out becausethey don't agree with us. That's
(14:18):
not, should not be a thing. AndI think what we're seeing is
there are, you know, I'm
Unknown (14:25):
seeing it more with younger voters, but I think it's
across the board, but becomingso passionate about politics,
which in itself, is not a badthing, yeah, but we cannot
forget basic human decency inthat, yeah. And so, I mean,
there are lesser offenses too,that I've seen of like, you
know, doxing people on socialmedia. That's not appropriate.
(14:47):
That's, I mean, taking physicalviolence, doing things, you
know, what's
Stephanie Olson (14:51):
Doxxing people?
Do you want to define that foranybody who's older than 30? So.
Unknown (15:00):
Putting public, putting private information public, like
where you live, where yourfamily might frequent, where
your kids could go to school,all of that personal information
that could allow someone to findyou, right? And so we'll see
that sometimes of you know, I'mgoing to make all of that
information about you public sopeople who disagree with you can
come and threaten you or harmyou and like that's that is so
(15:22):
crossing a line, and I thinkwe've lost sight of what
appropriate boundaries are, thatit is okay to respectfully
disagree with someone, yeah, andin fact, it's good. It's healthy
for our society to havediffering beliefs and debates.
Stephanie Olson (15:35):
It's very healthy. And, you know, I think,
and that we've removed activelistening, for sure, I think
that we don't even want tolisten to somebody who disagrees
with us. And you know, one ofthe things that I think is
(15:58):
really important is that we havethese dialogs with people in a
peaceful way. And here's what Iwill say about Charlie Kirk,
regardless of what you believeabout what he believes. He was a
(16:21):
good dialog er and a greatdebater, and he didn't raise his
voice. I mean, at least, I mean,yeah, I don't know. And so
disagreed, but respectfully. AndI think that that's you know,
again, whether you agree ordisagree, I do think that we
(16:43):
have to be able to dialog andhave those conversations, and if
I say something that youdisagree with, maybe learn how
to respond in a way that's notout of anger, because I know it
is frustrating when somebodycompletely disagrees with you.
It is frustrating, and that'swhy I've always said that you
(17:06):
are not ready to educate peopleabout some difficult topics if
you're still really healingthrough those things, because
you get to be angry, right? Youget to heal and people ask
questions that are hard could bevery In fact, I think I've
(17:30):
talked about this before, but Iwas on a forum, like a social
media forum, there was anarticle written about essay and
the person was talking abouttheir experience, and it was a
well known person with a wellknown person, and somebody in
the forum legitimately asked aquestion, Can I ask why people
(17:56):
don't name their abusers? Andthere was just this flood of,
how dare you ask that question,what are you and legitimate
someone who stands it really is.
I just want to understand. Idon't understand. So I jumped in
and I said, you know, I justwant to share that I am a
(18:18):
survivor of sexual and domesticviolence, and I understand
anger, and you have the right tobe angry when you've been
treated like that, and that is,you know that no shame there.
What we can't do out of thatanger is educate people. Yeah,
(18:41):
and that doesn't mean that. Imean not everybody should
educate people, not everybodyshould be educators, right? And
I think that if you're not readyto have a conversation or not
ready to debate, that that'sokay. Yes, but if you are trying
to educate somebody, and thatincludes, I mean, that includes,
(19:06):
like, sit standing in front ofsomebody, just one on one, or
whatever, I think, be mindfulthat learn how to regulate and
how to, you know, because it'snot fair of me to just to start.
I think when it gets bad, Idon't think there's any problem
(19:29):
with getting heated and like,Okay, I'm gonna raise my voice a
little. I think when it getsinappropriate is when we start
name calling, because now we'vejust lost the argument. Like,
once you resort to name calling,consulting, yeah, yeah, you've
just lost the argument. And sothat's a big deal. But also, the
hotter it gets, the more it canlead to violence, like we've
(19:56):
seen. With the representatives,and then Charlie Kirk and even
arena, who was not a knownperson, and this person didn't
know her from Iota, she got on abus and happened to sit in front
of this person. That's all shedid wrong. I mean, so nothing
(20:17):
that that's not wrong, right?
Yeah, but we, I don't even knowwhat I was saying. It's just so
disheartening. I I'm it'sdisheartening well,
Unknown (20:35):
and I think sometimes what we're seeing with that
anger too, is maybe you had anexperience with a certain person
or a group of people, and thenyou assume, I mean, right or
wrong. You assume that thisother person who looks somewhat
similar, maybe it's the color oftheir skin, maybe it's an
activity they're involved in,whatever it is, and you assume
(20:56):
that you know everything aboutthem. You know the way they
believe. And you have this angertoward them that is so unfounded
because you've not even stoppedto have a conversation? Yeah,
absolutely. Because if you startto humanize that person, you'll
find out things about them thataren't horrible, right? I mean,
(21:16):
that's the whole point ofhumanizing and and I am not hard
to care about people. It is andyou can't take your anger out on
them. I know you have to find away to manage those negative
emotions on your own. It's a loteasier to take it out on
somebody else.
Stephanie Olson (21:32):
Yeah, yeah. And sometimes, let's be honest, it
feels good when you're wrongedand you want to lash out at some
somebody that might feel good inthat moment. It is not something
that will create change. And youknow, one of the things I was
talking about at this conferencewas, how do we create change in
(21:55):
a world of essay and HT anddomestic violence. How do we
create change and make it soit's foundational, like we're
not going to live in a worldwhere violence is something that
is an option, so essay is notoptional. And so how do we
(22:17):
create that change culturallyand make a difference that way.
I know that this is not how tocreate that change, that
violence isn't going to do it.
And I it's
Unknown (22:37):
it's really challenging, and if anything, it
makes things worse. Yeah, right.
I mean, like, at at best, it'sineffective. At worst, it
creates more tension, right? Andwhoever you're trying to stop,
whoever supported that person,they are now even more so going
to fight against you. I mean,it's, it's, it's not a solution.
Stephanie Olson (23:01):
So I was saying earlier about, you know, like I
never had to experience schooldrills where we had to leave a
building because of an activeshooter. Active shooter school
drill
Unknown (23:11):
to me, because I don't remember ever not doing them.
Wow, wow.
Stephanie Olson (23:15):
Yeah, there were just no school shootings
when I was in school. It wasn'ta thing, and that's a whole
other conversation, right? But Ithink what is hard for me
because I never feared going toschool, like, were there school
(23:38):
bullies? And, I mean, I hadpeople pick on me too, and I,
you know, all those things, butI didn't have a fear that
somebody would come in and shootout my school. That was never a
fear of mine. We had firedrills, we had tornado drills.
But the trauma that we areputting our kids through is
(24:01):
horrifying that they have nosafe place to go. It's awful.
Unknown (24:10):
Even in the last month, I personally have had two people
in my family that their schoolshave been locked down. So my I
have a cousin who's in college,and he is in a different state
from where I am, but his collegewas locked down because of the
(24:32):
threats, and I believe theyfound someone, but nothing had
happened. They caught it earlyenough, right? Well, then my
little sister, in a completelydifferent state from that
cousin, also, just this lastweek, there was a threat.
Someone had called and said,I've got to get him and start
shooting. And they didn't findany weapons. They didn't find
(24:55):
anyone. But like, obviouslythat's going to send everyone.
The whole school was locked.
Out. All the parents arefreaking out, right? Because,
you know, if it's serious ornot, and I think, like, there's
even an increase of peoplepretending like, right? A fun
thing to do to get everyonefreaked out about this. It's so
sad to see. Like, when did thisbecome a joke? But also, when
(25:16):
did this become real life,right?
Stephanie Olson (25:23):
Yeah, you know, I'm just looking up school
shootings prior to the year,2000 and there were incidents
where their shootings, like withgang members. And so it's not,
it's not that it didn't happenlike, I'm looking specifically
(25:46):
in the 50s. And there werecertainly things there. Most of
these were one person targeted.
Interestingly enough, there wasthe Kent State shooting that
happened in the 70s, and thatwas awful, and that was a mass
shooting. What I'm not seeingare a lot of mass shootings in
(26:10):
schools back in the day. So I,you know, I said it's not a
thing. It wasn't a thing when Iwas a kid. And so that's not
necessarily the case, but wecertainly did not have, you
know, not to the degree, not notto the not to the it's like, I
(26:30):
mean, oh my gosh. It's almostlike, every other day you see a
shooting, and something's goingon so well.
Unknown (26:40):
And I think another component to that is that social
media piece, you know, of likewe are aware of things happening
in completely different parts ofthe country that may have never
known about before. That's agreat point. Going back to the
anxiety on our kids. I mean,that is too much. Sometimes I as
an adult, just feel like I don'twant to be informed of what's
(27:02):
going on today, because toomuch. It's a heavy weight. And
so looking at, you know,teenagers who are getting news
on their phones, and they'reseeing all these things on
social media, they're constantlyinundated with the violence
going on in our country and inthe world at large, and I think
that that plays a role inbecoming desensitized to that
(27:23):
violence, like shootings arejust a thing that happens
exactly, just happen, but in inthat process, I think part of
what's happened is it's made itfeel more acceptable. You know,
I've seen however other manypeople violently attack someone
they disagree with, so nowthat's an option in my brain,
and it's scary.
Stephanie Olson (27:43):
It is scary.
And when you actually see it,that's the other thing. Like we
are witnessing it on socialmedia. It's not that we're just
hearing about it on socialmedia. It's not that we're just
we're literally witnessing it.
And I do think that changesthings. The other thing I will
say about social media is when,when somebody posts something
(28:07):
that's kind of hot topic, andyou read the comments and people
are agreeing, just even whenpeople agree, I swear the anger
comes out in their comments. Andso this becomes normalized. Like
you say something, I can callyou a name because you're not in
(28:31):
front of me, or I can say you'rean idiot, or I can whatever, and
it becomes very normalized. Andso that does lead to the
desensitization of human beings,even political figures. You
know, you think about,certainly, we had news. Back in
(28:51):
the day, news was very I used towatch news with my grandma and
grandpa. I know you can't evenimagine this, but you know, we
had one TV, and you had to getup and turn the channel. And we
had like three channels, and Ilived in the Chicago area, but
news was like, I'm gonna deliverthe facts. I don't, as a
(29:13):
journalist, have an opinion. I'mgoing to deliver the facts.
That's how news was, and so Ican't even picture that either.
Yeah, and so did you so thePresident of the United States,
for example. You may completelydisagree with the President of
(29:35):
the United States, but yourconversations about that are
with family and with friends andwith people. So it's just a I
don't know. It's just adifferent time. And so when you
see all of these conversationscoming and just having opinions,
(29:57):
and this is what I think, andthis is you're wrong. And this
is, there's nothing wrong withdialog, but it is becoming so
it's almost abusive dialogbecause we're fighting all the
time.
Unknown (30:12):
It gets intense. Yeah.
I mean, I so if there's a newstory happening that I want to
know more about, I go to like,four or five different places to
try to piece the whole storytogether without opinion.
Stephanie Olson (30:24):
That's what I was, yes, yeah. Well, okay, so
I, I have a news it's a newswebsite, social, whatever. It's
called, ground news, and Ihaven't used it. It is
unbelievable, because they giveand I am really big on looking
(30:49):
at both sides of a topic andreally studying both sides. Now
what we have to remember is thatif we're looking at our news on
social media, the algorithm isgoing to guide that, right? So
if you are a liberal person andthese are your beliefs, your
(31:11):
algorithm is going to bringstories to you that you agree
with. If you're a conservativeperson and these are your
beliefs, your algorithm is goingto bring stories that you agree
with and so what happens is, westart looking at the news,
going, we'll see everybodyagrees with me, or see everybody
(31:32):
agrees with me. So I'm not doinga commercial for ground news,
but if you do want to sponsorus, by all means. But the the
great thing about it is it givesactually three sides. It says
your and it talks about beinghaving a blind spot. So if you
are on the right, you're notgoing to see this. If you're on
(31:55):
the left, you're not going tosee this. If you're in the
center. And so it tells like thepercentage of this story was for
the right, this story was forthe left, this story was for
center. It's amazing. And so youcan read articles that are all
the same, are all the sametopic, but with the slant to the
(32:18):
right, slant to the left center.
And it is great, because thenyou can start to really piece
together what is accurate. Yes,yes. And it's I have really
found it very effective. Thereis a cost, but I have found it
an effective way to find news,instead of turning on channels
(32:42):
or, you know, searching for it,reading a certain it's just
great because it gives you allsides, and that's what we need.
It would be great to get thenews without opinions.
Personally, that's how it usedto be. Everyone's lovely. It
(33:03):
really was, yeah, just give methe My dad used to always say,
just the facts. Ma'am. I thinkthat was from dreadnet or
something. But yes, that's all Iwant. Give me the facts. Give me
the facts. I will then make anopinion based on those things
with my value system, that'd begreat well, and
Unknown (33:28):
I think that's something we've lost sight of
too, is it's okay to have yourown opinion? Yes, you can weird,
weird. And I think that, like sooften it's like, okay, well, I
have these political views, sowhatever this person's opinion
is, is now my opinion? Right?
No, like, That's ridiculous. Itis ridiculous in the world, and
(33:49):
we should all have slightlydifferent opinions, because
we're different people withdifferent
Stephanie Olson (33:55):
experiences, yes, yes. And I think that's
extremely important, and it'shard for people, but critically
important, yeah, I agree withyou 100% I think we're just in a
rough time right now, and it'sscary out there, and it's
disheartening, and it's, I mean,there's just so much going on in
(34:18):
our world that's Not good. So Ithink bottom line is, for us,
you have an intrinsic value thatcannot be changed. Doesn't
matter who you are, where youlive, how much money you have,
how much don't have, yourgender, what color skin you
have, it doesn't matter you havean intrinsic value that cannot
be changed, and it's preciousthat human dignity, that you are
(34:44):
human, and this is a humanproblem, and so let's respect
each other as human beings. Thatdoesn't mean we agree with
people. That doesn't even meanwe might think like that person
is not a good person, or, gosh,I just I don't like that person.
Whatever. That's fine, but, butthat doesn't mean that we should
(35:06):
be calling them names and weshould be violent towards them
or whatever. So everyone
Unknown (35:12):
deserves that basic level of respect. Yeah,
Stephanie Olson (35:16):
basic level, right? And then you earn or lose
it, right, but as human beings,that we walk around with these
total strangers that we don'tknow, and it's okay to just be
kind, I see, you know, there'sall those shirts that are just
be kind, and I think that's areally important thing. That
doesn't mean you approve ofthings that are wrong. That
(35:40):
doesn't mean just be kind. Andcan we stop the violence we are?
We are human being. Oh, yeah,it's disheartening. So anything
else to add?
Unknown (35:53):
No, I think that covers it,
Stephanie Olson (35:56):
all right.
Well, on that note,
Unknown (36:00):
we'll have a lighter podcast next time, I'm sure
Stephanie Olson (36:02):
too let's do so go out and do amazing things,
but get some R and R and we willsee you next time. Thank you.
You.
Foreign.
Stephanie Olson (00:17):
Hello and welcome to resilience and
relationships R and R. I amStephanie Olson, here with
Rebecca Saunders, yes, and weare so glad to be with you
today. We're going to talk aboutnot a very light topic today,
right? We're going to talk aboutpolitical violence. And although
(00:41):
I hate talking about this. Ithink it's part of something we
do, as far as you know, our workin in essay and and HT and all
of that stuff. And so I thinkit, it fits appropriately in, in
some of what we're going to talkabout,
Unknown (00:58):
it does. And before we really get started in the
conversation. I think it'simportant to note too, that as
an organization, we don't take ahard political stance, and we
have varying opinions within ourorganization. Absolutely, we are
not about to say this is how youshould feel, or we support this
view or this view. Yeah. What ishappening when those views are
(01:18):
expressed wrong
Stephanie Olson (01:21):
in a wrong, violent way, right? Pause, plug
this in.
Unknown (01:31):
Okay, there we go, one of those things,
Stephanie Olson (01:35):
yes, and, yeah, no, I agree 100% and, and I'm
sorry, but there is just a rightand wrong in this for sure. So
we are coming off of so manypolitical whether, well,
(01:57):
assassinations, certainly. Andwe just want to talk about that,
because recently, Charlie Kirk,who is a very was a very public
conservative spokesperson, wasshot and killed at a an event in
Utah, and so that that wasreally striking thing at the
(02:21):
same time, almostsimultaneously, there was a
shooting at one of the DenverPublic Schools that was
happening at the same time. Wealso are kind of on the heels
that in August, there was a manwho just stood up and stabbed a
(02:44):
woman and killed her on a bus inCharlotte. And we also have
recently, Democratic StateRepresentative Melissa Hortman
and her husband were killed by atragic shooting, and Senator
John Hoffman and his wife werewounded in a targeted political
(03:05):
violent act. And I think we justwant to address that. Because
regardless of what side you areon, right or left, white or
black, all the things, I mean, Icould say all the things that
have brought division in ourcountry lately. Violence against
(03:30):
a human being is wrong. It'snever the answer. It's never the
answer. And you know, I thinkit's so important, because one
of the things that we teach, andthe foundation of everything we
teach is you have an intrinsicvalue that can't be changed,
that it doesn't matter who youare, what you look like, where
you live, how much money youhave or don't have you haven't
(03:53):
Yes, your beliefs, yeah, youhave an intrinsic value that
cannot be changed. And I wasspeaking at a conference
yesterday, and I said, so, youknow, we all know that, and look
to your right, look to yourleft. Everybody has an intrinsic
value. But then I asked, does,and this was a multi
(04:17):
disciplinary group, so therewere a lot of forensic
interviewers, law enforcementadvocates, people who work on
the front lines. These are samenurses. These were amazing
people who do great work. Andone of the things that I asked
them was, what about theperpetrators that we're dealing
(04:40):
with. And one of the lawenforcement officers said, no,
they do not and, and he wasbeing facetious, but the reality
is, and we all agreed, everybodyhas an intrinsic value that
can't be changed. Everyone hashuman dignity. Everybody has
worth. And. Unfortunately, thatdoesn't mean that everybody is
(05:03):
doing the right thing, right. Itdoesn't mean that we don't have
consequences to our actions, orif we're doing something wrong,
it's not an evil thing thatwe've done. I mean, I'm not
saying any of that, but the factthat we are human beings gives
us that human dignity. And Ithink we're in this season where
(05:27):
we're just dehumanizing peoplebecause of what they believe or
what they look like even.
Unknown (05:33):
And I yeah, I think that's the root of the issue. Is
just we're not seeing that valuein people. Because if you were
to look at everyone as peoplewith that value, then you can't
go on to do some of these thingsthat we're seeing.
Stephanie Olson (05:48):
No, no human life is, is precious and and we
look at, for example, CharlieKirk, who was shot in public,
and Irina zaruska. I'm not sureif I'm saying her name
correctly, but was stabbed onpublic transit. We have video of
(06:12):
those things, and so because ofthat, we have seen, and I think
that's one of the the changestoday in in our world, is that,
you know, even with schoolshootings were not a thing when
I was going to school, we didn'thave school shooting drills.
(06:33):
Those were not something thathappened. And even though
schools typically don't have ordo have cameras, and you can see
maybe the shooter enter. Or, youknow, we had that shooting at
von Mar in Omaha several,several years ago. You can see
the shooter entering, but theyhave not shown anyone getting
(07:01):
shot until recently, and I thinkthat makes it extra difficult,
because in in the case of thetwo I just mentioned, Charlie
Kirk and Irina zarutska, thosefamily members have that have to
see that
Unknown (07:23):
I can't imagine. I mean, it's hard enough Losing
Someone You Love, but then tohave that, not just on video to
see once, but on every newsstation and playing over and
over. I mean, yeah, that'straumatic in itself,
Stephanie Olson (07:39):
right? It really is. And so, you know, one
of the things that we weresaying before we talked about
this is we're not even going totalk about the circumstances
around it, or the, you know,whether you agree with people or
don't agree. We're talking aboutpeople who are conservative,
(08:02):
people who are liberal, andpeople we don't know really
anything about, but a woman whois from Ukraine, and it really
isn't about what we believe itit really is about We have got
to be able to have conversationsand have dialog and not respond
(08:27):
with this violence.
Unknown (08:32):
And I think that we're seeing, especially through these
things, that we have videofootage of some of these things
that have happened, right? Andwe're seeing just how
desensitized a lot of us are tothat violence. When you can take
a video of someone being killedand then make light of it,
Stephanie Olson (08:54):
it's horrifying, actually. You know
what is really interesting wasmy sister saw it on social
media, and her first responsewas, Geez, that is a sick thing
to do with AI. That's that'swhat she thought. And then
realized that, nope, this isreal and happening in real time
(09:19):
and and then people celebrateit. People are celebrating
violence and celebrating and Ijust, uh, it hurts my heart. It
really does. It hurts my heart.
And so we've got people on bothsides of the aisle, people who
(09:40):
don't deserve to die, and whoare doing what they believe is
right. And here's the thing, andthis is, you know, I was
thinking about this the otherday, we cannot be. Uh, you know,
I come from a Jewish family, andwhen I think about the Holocaust
(10:05):
and what was perpetrated on theJewish people, we can't go back
there. And I really think thatthere is so much that you know
because you believe this, orbecause you do this, or you look
like this, or whatever it maybe, we are dangerously close to
(10:30):
repeating some of those actions.
Unknown (10:41):
I completely agree with you. I think some might take
that statement of comparing, youknow, some of the things we're
seeing to the Holocaust asdramatic, but I don't think so.
It may not look exactly thesame, but a lot of those
elements are there, thatdevaluing of people who are
different from you. We're seeingthat time and time again from
people on both sides of thepolitical spectrum.
Stephanie Olson (11:01):
Well, Hitler didn't start with gas chambers,
right? We know that. Yeah, hitit's a slow fade. And Hitler
started to poison the minds ofpeople who aren't like what he
(11:22):
wanted, and that, that is theslow fade that happens, and I
certainly hope it never gets tothat ever, ever Again, but
that's how it starts, thisdehumanizing human beings, and
(11:43):
frankly, I'm sorry that goes onboth sides, both parties are at
fault for those things, and allraces can be for at fault for
those things. And I just thinkwe have to be so careful to
(12:06):
really not dehumanize people.
Bottom line,
Unknown (12:15):
yeah, absolutely. And I think, you know, I'm I'm glad
that you mentioned too that itcan be both sides, because it
is. And I think right now,especially in the light of
Charlie Kirk's passing, a lot ofconservatives pointing fingers,
you know, what you're seeing inone moment can be totally
(12:37):
opposite the next moment, right?
We can look at one situation andwe can say, Oh, well, it's this
group of people. But in reality,I mean, if we just even take the
last year, we'll look at whatelse every group is at fault
here. Yes, it's a human problem.
It's a that's a great way, it isa human problem.
Stephanie Olson (13:03):
I had the opportunity to meet with a
couple of our staff membersbecause I was speaking at a
conference, and we are all overthe place, nationally, and so we
don't get to see each other veryoften, and I was speaking at a
conference in the same statethat they were in, so I got to
have dinner with them, and wewere talking about this, and I
(13:26):
said, I think there were, like,literally, three political
parties at the table. There werethree of us at the table. There
were three political parties atthe table. I believe. I don't
even know that for a fact,because I don't know, but one of
the staff members was askingabout Charlie Kirk, and she
said, I don't agree with a thingthat he says, but what happened
(13:54):
to him was horrific and shouldhave never happened. And that's
I think, you know, when we lookat like Gavin Newsom came out
and said, This is Obama andBernie Sanders coming out
against the violence, like wedon't get to do that. We don't
get to take people out becausethey don't agree with us. That's
(14:18):
not, should not be a thing. AndI think what we're seeing is
there are, you know, I'm
Unknown (14:25):
seeing it more with younger voters, but I think it's
across the board, but becomingso passionate about politics,
which in itself, is not a badthing, yeah, but we cannot
forget basic human decency inthat, yeah. And so, I mean,
there are lesser offenses too,that I've seen of like, you
know, doxing people on socialmedia. That's not appropriate.
(14:47):
That's, I mean, taking physicalviolence, doing things, you
know, what's
Stephanie Olson (14:51):
Doxxing people?
Do you want to define that foranybody who's older than 30? So.
Unknown (15:00):
Putting public, putting private information public, like
where you live, where yourfamily might frequent, where
your kids could go to school,all of that personal information
that could allow someone to findyou, right? And so we'll see
that sometimes of you know, I'mgoing to make all of that
information about you public sopeople who disagree with you can
come and threaten you or harmyou and like that's that is so
(15:22):
crossing a line, and I thinkwe've lost sight of what
appropriate boundaries are, thatit is okay to respectfully
disagree with someone, yeah, andin fact, it's good. It's healthy
for our society to havediffering beliefs and debates.
Stephanie Olson (15:35):
It's very healthy. And, you know, I think,
and that we've removed activelistening, for sure, I think
that we don't even want tolisten to somebody who disagrees
with us. And you know, one ofthe things that I think is
(15:58):
really important is that we havethese dialogs with people in a
peaceful way. And here's what Iwill say about Charlie Kirk,
regardless of what you believeabout what he believes. He was a
(16:21):
good dialog er and a greatdebater, and he didn't raise his
voice. I mean, at least, I mean,yeah, I don't know. And so
disagreed, but respectfully. AndI think that that's you know,
again, whether you agree ordisagree, I do think that we
(16:43):
have to be able to dialog andhave those conversations, and if
I say something that youdisagree with, maybe learn how
to respond in a way that's notout of anger, because I know it
is frustrating when somebodycompletely disagrees with you.
It is frustrating, and that'swhy I've always said that you
(17:06):
are not ready to educate peopleabout some difficult topics if
you're still really healingthrough those things, because
you get to be angry, right? Youget to heal and people ask
questions that are hard could bevery In fact, I think I've
(17:30):
talked about this before, but Iwas on a forum, like a social
media forum, there was anarticle written about essay and
the person was talking abouttheir experience, and it was a
well known person with a wellknown person, and somebody in
the forum legitimately asked aquestion, Can I ask why people
(17:56):
don't name their abusers? Andthere was just this flood of,
how dare you ask that question,what are you and legitimate
someone who stands it really is.
I just want to understand. Idon't understand. So I jumped in
and I said, you know, I justwant to share that I am a
(18:18):
survivor of sexual and domesticviolence, and I understand
anger, and you have the right tobe angry when you've been
treated like that, and that is,you know that no shame there.
What we can't do out of thatanger is educate people. Yeah,
(18:41):
and that doesn't mean that. Imean not everybody should
educate people, not everybodyshould be educators, right? And
I think that if you're not readyto have a conversation or not
ready to debate, that that'sokay. Yes, but if you are trying
to educate somebody, and thatincludes, I mean, that includes,
(19:06):
like, sit standing in front ofsomebody, just one on one, or
whatever, I think, be mindfulthat learn how to regulate and
how to, you know, because it'snot fair of me to just to start.
I think when it gets bad, Idon't think there's any problem
(19:29):
with getting heated and like,Okay, I'm gonna raise my voice a
little. I think when it getsinappropriate is when we start
name calling, because now we'vejust lost the argument. Like,
once you resort to name calling,consulting, yeah, yeah, you've
just lost the argument. And sothat's a big deal. But also, the
hotter it gets, the more it canlead to violence, like we've
(19:56):
seen. With the representatives,and then Charlie Kirk and even
arena, who was not a knownperson, and this person didn't
know her from Iota, she got on abus and happened to sit in front
of this person. That's all shedid wrong. I mean, so nothing
(20:17):
that that's not wrong, right?
Yeah, but we, I don't even knowwhat I was saying. It's just so
disheartening. I I'm it'sdisheartening well,
Unknown (20:35):
and I think sometimes what we're seeing with that
anger too, is maybe you had anexperience with a certain person
or a group of people, and thenyou assume, I mean, right or
wrong. You assume that thisother person who looks somewhat
similar, maybe it's the color oftheir skin, maybe it's an
activity they're involved in,whatever it is, and you assume
(20:56):
that you know everything aboutthem. You know the way they
believe. And you have this angertoward them that is so unfounded
because you've not even stoppedto have a conversation? Yeah,
absolutely. Because if you startto humanize that person, you'll
find out things about them thataren't horrible, right? I mean,
(21:16):
that's the whole point ofhumanizing and and I am not hard
to care about people. It is andyou can't take your anger out on
them. I know you have to find away to manage those negative
emotions on your own. It's a loteasier to take it out on
somebody else.
Stephanie Olson (21:32):
Yeah, yeah. And sometimes, let's be honest, it
feels good when you're wrongedand you want to lash out at some
somebody that might feel good inthat moment. It is not something
that will create change. And youknow, one of the things I was
talking about at this conferencewas, how do we create change in
(21:55):
a world of essay and HT anddomestic violence. How do we
create change and make it soit's foundational, like we're
not going to live in a worldwhere violence is something that
is an option, so essay is notoptional. And so how do we
(22:17):
create that change culturallyand make a difference that way.
I know that this is not how tocreate that change, that
violence isn't going to do it.
And I it's
Unknown (22:37):
it's really challenging, and if anything, it
makes things worse. Yeah, right.
I mean, like, at at best, it'sineffective. At worst, it
creates more tension, right? Andwhoever you're trying to stop,
whoever supported that person,they are now even more so going
to fight against you. I mean,it's, it's, it's not a solution.
Stephanie Olson (23:01):
So I was saying earlier about, you know, like I
never had to experience schooldrills where we had to leave a
building because of an activeshooter. Active shooter school
drill
Unknown (23:11):
to me, because I don't remember ever not doing them.
Wow, wow.
Stephanie Olson (23:15):
Yeah, there were just no school shootings
when I was in school. It wasn'ta thing, and that's a whole
other conversation, right? But Ithink what is hard for me
because I never feared going toschool, like, were there school
(23:38):
bullies? And, I mean, I hadpeople pick on me too, and I,
you know, all those things, butI didn't have a fear that
somebody would come in and shootout my school. That was never a
fear of mine. We had firedrills, we had tornado drills.
But the trauma that we areputting our kids through is
(24:01):
horrifying that they have nosafe place to go. It's awful.
Unknown (24:10):
Even in the last month, I personally have had two people
in my family that their schoolshave been locked down. So my I
have a cousin who's in college,and he is in a different state
from where I am, but his collegewas locked down because of the
(24:32):
threats, and I believe theyfound someone, but nothing had
happened. They caught it earlyenough, right? Well, then my
little sister, in a completelydifferent state from that
cousin, also, just this lastweek, there was a threat.
Someone had called and said,I've got to get him and start
shooting. And they didn't findany weapons. They didn't find
(24:55):
anyone. But like, obviouslythat's going to send everyone.
The whole school was locked.
Out. All the parents arefreaking out, right? Because,
you know, if it's serious ornot, and I think, like, there's
even an increase of peoplepretending like, right? A fun
thing to do to get everyonefreaked out about this. It's so
sad to see. Like, when did thisbecome a joke? But also, when
(25:16):
did this become real life,right?
Stephanie Olson (25:23):
Yeah, you know, I'm just looking up school
shootings prior to the year,2000 and there were incidents
where their shootings, like withgang members. And so it's not,
it's not that it didn't happenlike, I'm looking specifically
(25:46):
in the 50s. And there werecertainly things there. Most of
these were one person targeted.
Interestingly enough, there wasthe Kent State shooting that
happened in the 70s, and thatwas awful, and that was a mass
shooting. What I'm not seeingare a lot of mass shootings in
(26:10):
schools back in the day. So I,you know, I said it's not a
thing. It wasn't a thing when Iwas a kid. And so that's not
necessarily the case, but wecertainly did not have, you
know, not to the degree, not notto the not to the it's like, I
(26:30):
mean, oh my gosh. It's almostlike, every other day you see a
shooting, and something's goingon so well.
Unknown (26:40):
And I think another component to that is that social
media piece, you know, of likewe are aware of things happening
in completely different parts ofthe country that may have never
known about before. That's agreat point. Going back to the
anxiety on our kids. I mean,that is too much. Sometimes I as
an adult, just feel like I don'twant to be informed of what's
(27:02):
going on today, because toomuch. It's a heavy weight. And
so looking at, you know,teenagers who are getting news
on their phones, and they'reseeing all these things on
social media, they're constantlyinundated with the violence
going on in our country and inthe world at large, and I think
that that plays a role inbecoming desensitized to that
(27:23):
violence, like shootings arejust a thing that happens
exactly, just happen, but in inthat process, I think part of
what's happened is it's made itfeel more acceptable. You know,
I've seen however other manypeople violently attack someone
they disagree with, so nowthat's an option in my brain,
and it's scary.
Stephanie Olson (27:43):
It is scary.
And when you actually see it,that's the other thing. Like we
are witnessing it on socialmedia. It's not that we're just
hearing about it on socialmedia. It's not that we're just
we're literally witnessing it.
And I do think that changesthings. The other thing I will
say about social media is when,when somebody posts something
(28:07):
that's kind of hot topic, andyou read the comments and people
are agreeing, just even whenpeople agree, I swear the anger
comes out in their comments. Andso this becomes normalized. Like
you say something, I can callyou a name because you're not in
(28:31):
front of me, or I can say you'rean idiot, or I can whatever, and
it becomes very normalized. Andso that does lead to the
desensitization of human beings,even political figures. You
know, you think about,certainly, we had news. Back in
(28:51):
the day, news was very I used towatch news with my grandma and
grandpa. I know you can't evenimagine this, but you know, we
had one TV, and you had to getup and turn the channel. And we
had like three channels, and Ilived in the Chicago area, but
news was like, I'm gonna deliverthe facts. I don't, as a
(29:13):
journalist, have an opinion. I'mgoing to deliver the facts.
That's how news was, and so Ican't even picture that either.
Yeah, and so did you so thePresident of the United States,
for example. You may completelydisagree with the President of
(29:35):
the United States, but yourconversations about that are
with family and with friends andwith people. So it's just a I
don't know. It's just adifferent time. And so when you
see all of these conversationscoming and just having opinions,
(29:57):
and this is what I think, andthis is you're wrong. And this
is, there's nothing wrong withdialog, but it is becoming so
it's almost abusive dialogbecause we're fighting all the
time.
Unknown (30:12):
It gets intense. Yeah.
I mean, I so if there's a newstory happening that I want to
know more about, I go to like,four or five different places to
try to piece the whole storytogether without opinion.
Stephanie Olson (30:24):
That's what I was, yes, yeah. Well, okay, so
I, I have a news it's a newswebsite, social, whatever. It's
called, ground news, and Ihaven't used it. It is
unbelievable, because they giveand I am really big on looking
(30:49):
at both sides of a topic andreally studying both sides. Now
what we have to remember is thatif we're looking at our news on
social media, the algorithm isgoing to guide that, right? So
if you are a liberal person andthese are your beliefs, your
(31:11):
algorithm is going to bringstories to you that you agree
with. If you're a conservativeperson and these are your
beliefs, your algorithm is goingto bring stories that you agree
with and so what happens is, westart looking at the news,
going, we'll see everybodyagrees with me, or see everybody
(31:32):
agrees with me. So I'm not doinga commercial for ground news,
but if you do want to sponsorus, by all means. But the the
great thing about it is it givesactually three sides. It says
your and it talks about beinghaving a blind spot. So if you
are on the right, you're notgoing to see this. If you're on
(31:55):
the left, you're not going tosee this. If you're in the
center. And so it tells like thepercentage of this story was for
the right, this story was forthe left, this story was for
center. It's amazing. And so youcan read articles that are all
the same, are all the sametopic, but with the slant to the
(32:18):
right, slant to the left center.
And it is great, because thenyou can start to really piece
together what is accurate. Yes,yes. And it's I have really
found it very effective. Thereis a cost, but I have found it
an effective way to find news,instead of turning on channels
(32:42):
or, you know, searching for it,reading a certain it's just
great because it gives you allsides, and that's what we need.
It would be great to get thenews without opinions.
Personally, that's how it usedto be. Everyone's lovely. It
(33:03):
really was, yeah, just give methe My dad used to always say,
just the facts. Ma'am. I thinkthat was from dreadnet or
something. But yes, that's all Iwant. Give me the facts. Give me
the facts. I will then make anopinion based on those things
with my value system, that'd begreat well, and
Unknown (33:28):
I think that's something we've lost sight of
too, is it's okay to have yourown opinion? Yes, you can weird,
weird. And I think that, like sooften it's like, okay, well, I
have these political views, sowhatever this person's opinion
is, is now my opinion? Right?
No, like, That's ridiculous. Itis ridiculous in the world, and
(33:49):
we should all have slightlydifferent opinions, because
we're different people withdifferent
Stephanie Olson (33:55):
experiences, yes, yes. And I think that's
extremely important, and it'shard for people, but critically
important, yeah, I agree withyou 100% I think we're just in a
rough time right now, and it'sscary out there, and it's
disheartening, and it's, I mean,there's just so much going on in
(34:18):
our world that's Not good. So Ithink bottom line is, for us,
you have an intrinsic value thatcannot be changed. Doesn't
matter who you are, where youlive, how much money you have,
how much don't have, yourgender, what color skin you
have, it doesn't matter you havean intrinsic value that cannot
be changed, and it's preciousthat human dignity, that you are
(34:44):
human, and this is a humanproblem, and so let's respect
each other as human beings. Thatdoesn't mean we agree with
people. That doesn't even meanwe might think like that person
is not a good person, or, gosh,I just I don't like that person.
Whatever. That's fine, but, butthat doesn't mean that we should
(35:06):
be calling them names and weshould be violent towards them
or whatever. So everyone
Unknown (35:12):
deserves that basic level of respect. Yeah,
Stephanie Olson (35:16):
basic level, right? And then you earn or lose
it, right, but as human beings,that we walk around with these
total strangers that we don'tknow, and it's okay to just be
kind, I see, you know, there'sall those shirts that are just
be kind, and I think that's areally important thing. That
doesn't mean you approve ofthings that are wrong. That
(35:40):
doesn't mean just be kind. Andcan we stop the violence we are?
We are human being. Oh, yeah,it's disheartening. So anything
else to add?
Unknown (35:53):
No, I think that covers it,
Stephanie Olson (35:56):
all right.
Well, on that note,
Unknown (36:00):
we'll have a lighter podcast next time, I'm sure
Stephanie Olson (36:02):
too let's do so go out and do amazing things,
but get some R and R and we willsee you next time. Thank you.
You.
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