April 16, 2025 • 48 mins
What happens when a decorated Naval Lieutenant Commander, triple-boarded physician, and healthcare executive exhausts every conventional treatment for his debilitating PTSD? Dr. Charles Powell takes us on his extraordinary journey from the frontlines of military medicine to the cutting edge of psychedelic healing.
After 16 years of military service and building a successful healthcare organization, Dr. Powell found himself trapped in a cycle of night terrors, sleep paralysis, and emotional numbness that traditional medications couldn't touch. His lowest point came after selling his company and contracting COVID, when he finally understood how someone's mind could contemplate suicide. The surprising source of his healing path? His tattoo artist, who introduced him to alternative treatments including ibogaine.
With the scientific rigor of a physician and the desperation of someone who'd tried everything else, Dr. Powell researched psychedelic medicine and eventually underwent treatment in Mexico. The results transformed not just his symptoms but his entire perspective on healing. Now medication-free and at peace, he's channeled his experience into creating "Healing Heroes: No Mind Left Behind," a powerful docuseries following six veterans through a comprehensive healing program combining psychedelic medicine with sound therapy, meditation, and other modalities.
The most touching outcome? Hearing a participant's child say, "Thanks for giving me my daddy back." This podcast explores how trauma treatment might evolve beyond symptom management to true healing, challenging our understanding of mental health care and recovery. Whether you're struggling with trauma or supporting someone who is, this conversation opens doors to possibilities that conventional medicine often overlooks.
Don't miss this raw, honest discussion about finding healing in unexpected places and the profound transformation that becomes possible when we approach trauma with innovative, open-minded strategies. Dr. Powell's journey reminds us that sometimes the most powerful healing comes from sources we least expect.
Go to www.healingheroes.com/ for more information on Charlie, his docuseries, and all other endeavors mentioned in the podcast.
Freed AI converts conversations into SOAP note.Use code Steve50 for $50 off the 1st month!
Disclaimer: This post contains affiliate links. If you make a purchase, I may receive a commission at no extra cost to you.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action, where
strength meets strategy andcourage to help you move forward
.
Each week, your host, steveBisson, a therapist with over
two decades of experience in thefirst responder community,
brings you powerfulconversations about resilience,
growth and healing throughtrauma and grief.
Whether you're navigating thecomplex journey of grief,
(00:22):
processing trauma or seeking tobuild resilience in high-stress
environments, this podcast isyour trusted companion.
From first responders facingdaily challenges to emergency
personnel managing criticalsituations, to leaders carrying
the weight of difficultdecisions, we're here to support
your journey.
Through authentic interviews,expert discussions and
(00:43):
real-world experiences, we divedeep into the heart of human
resilience.
We explore crucial topics liketrauma recovery, grief
processing, stress managementand emotional well-being.
Our conversations bridge thegap between professional insight
and practical application,offering you tools and
strategies that work in the realworld.
(01:03):
Join us as we create a spacewhere healing is possible, where
grief finds understanding andwhere resilience becomes your
foundation for growth.
This is Resilience Developmentin Action with Steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, welcome to the 200th episode of my podcast that
is now fully rebranded underResilience, development and
Action.
My name is Steve Bissau.
I hope you like the changes.
I hope you like what we'regoing to talk about, because
it's all the stuff that's seemedto be popular with most of you
and I'm looking forward to doingthat.
So for the 200th episode, Ihave Dr Charles Powell.
(01:41):
Dr Charles Powell is a doctorthat is a decorated former Naval
Lieutenant Commander, wasveteran of multiple medical
patent holder, former owner andchief medical officer of a major
office in Texas.
He is the father of a specialneeds son, charlie.
I'm sure he's going to talkabout that.
He was the inspiration for StCharlie Resorts and we'll talk
(02:02):
about that.
Who's the inspiration for saintcharlie resorts?
And, uh, we'll talk about thatfor sure.
Uh, he also founded solo vive,which hopefully we will also
talk about, as well as gettingready for a healing heroes uh,
docuseries, which he's going totalk about for sure.
Um, so here's the interview andI'm very excited.
(02:22):
I hope you guys like it.
So here's the interview and I'mvery excited.
I hope you guys like it.
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(02:44):
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(04:32):
Well, I want to welcome everyoneto the premiere episode of
Resilience Development andAction.
I'm very excited.
It's a new rebrand.
We're going to talk about itsoon.
It's a great episode.
I'm so excited because, uh,charles powell dr charles powell
, excuse me, but I call himcharlie was recommended to me
and, just reading his bio, youget a lot of those as a podcast
(04:56):
person and yours was like Ianswered, I think within 20
minutes or so, and I couldn'twait to meet you.
So I can't tell you how excitedI am to be talking with charlie
powell.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Welcome thank you, steve, thank you very much I
read your bio.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
That's why, like right away, I said when can we
meet?
Uh, to you, to the person whocontacted me.
So what I would like you to dois maybe I can describe what you
told me, but it's no fun, it'llbe too clinical anyway.
So might as well go with yourdefinition of who is Charlie
Powell.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You know, a movie studio recently approached me
about buying the rights of mylife story and I didn't
understand why.
To me it's just my life.
But he said I've had a ForrestGump life.
I've lived five lifetimes inthis life that are just been
amazing.
I'm a dad, first and foremost,single dad, taking care of my
kids, love them to death.
I was a physician for 26 years.
(05:53):
I'm still a physician.
In that time I was tripleboarded, originally in family
medicine, then in trauma,emergency room medicine and
eventually cosmetics.
I spent 16 years of my life inthe military, four years in the
army, 12 years in the Navy, andthat's how I was able to afford
my education.
I go by the mantra of a plaquethat my father gave me for
(06:16):
Christmas when I was 12 yearsold that says choose not to be
common.
And I am far from common.
I built up.
I built up uh 2005,.
I left the Navy and I built upa huge healthcare organization
in North Texas and eventuallysold it to United Healthcare.
No ominous music in thebackground necessary, but um,
(06:36):
anyway sold it off to them anduh basically went on a journey
of healing myself.
Uh, I was in corporate Americaat that time and learning that
the differences between runninga business in healthcare and
being in corporate healthcarewere totally different not quite
suited for my taste.
I had been on medications fromthe VA for decades for PTSD.
(07:01):
Probably at about 2007, twoyears after I left the Navy is
when I really started noticingsomething wasn't right.
Personally Now, granted, I hadstarted off when I was 19.
I joined the Army to pay forcollege, and the day I graduated
from in-vets individualtraining as a combat medic in
the Army was the day thatOperation Desert Shield became
(07:23):
Operation Desert Storm.
And so welcome to adulthood.
Really really quick From thereI demobilized, came back, went
to school, had a great education.
I stayed in the military longerthan I needed to by my
obligation.
I just enjoyed the culture, Ienjoyed the camaraderie and I
enjoyed the training.
I got excellent, top-notchtraining with people that I
(07:46):
really cared about serving.
So I ended in 2005 as theAfghanistan conflict started to
heat up and at that point cameout into civilian practice and
worked for a place for about ayear and a half, bought it and
built it into a hugeorganization that I previously
mentioned that I sold.
So in that time I also dealtwith the struggles of PTSD.
(08:11):
I started off with occasionalnight terrors.
I've suffered from sleepparalysis since I was probably
about seven years old, where Iwake up but your body doesn't
wake up with you familiar withit, right up, but your body
doesn't wake up with you uh,familiar with it, right.
And all you can do is closeyour eyes, reboot, wake up again
and uh, that couple with nightterrors is not a good
(08:31):
combination, and so they evolvedimmensely over a period of
years.
Um, many of the medications Iwas tried on SSRIs, snris and
whatnot just had side effects ordepersonalized me to the point
where it was like I was watchingmy life through a movie theater
.
I hit multiple low points aboutthe same time every year, right
(08:53):
around June, for some reason,and that annual low point would
culminate into me being isolated, me being more withdrawn and
over a period of time I meanyears ago even into alcoholism,
and I was never diagnosed.
I just drank a lot and I drankmost nights and realized after a
(09:13):
couple of years that's not howI wanted to live.
So I stopped that too it wasthat easy for me, luckily but
moved on to greener pastures.
And you know, through the yearsI went through multiple
therapies group therapy,one-on-one therapy and you know,
through the years I wentthrough multiple therapies group
therapy, one-on-one therapy and, as you well know, steve,
therapists come in all sorts ofdifferent shapes and sizes as
far as quality of what you get.
(09:34):
But as a physician, when youknow what the next question is
already coming at you, when youknow the technique that's coming
at you, after a while yourealize okay, am I really in the
right arena?
So, after suffering for anumber of years, to the point
where my lowest point I justsold my company and just gone
(09:58):
through six, seven months ofdiligence, which, on a company
that size it was.
They knew everything about me,inside and out, seven days a
week, working 12 hour days.
Then I got COVID.
After three years of survivingCOVID with my institution and
being on the forefront and thefront line serving our
communities, I finally got COVID.
And on top of all that andeverything, I just I hit the
(10:22):
lowest point I ever had in mylife.
It was around a June timeframe.
I remember that I never had aplan, but for the first time I
could understand suicide.
For the first time I couldunderstand how somebody's mind
could get there and it didn'tscare me, I was alert to it.
I was aware of it, but itdidn't.
(10:44):
It didn't scare me.
I was alert to it, I was awareof it, but it didn't scare me.
From that I had been onmedication for about I don't
know 15 years, pretty stablefrom the VA and others.
One of the medications hadcaused me a central nervous
system tremor that would comeout in board meetings If you put
half a Coca-Cola in me or halfa cup of coffee in me.
I sounded like KatharineHepburn and I don't know about
(11:06):
your audience, but my kids don'teven understand that reference.
Hardly anybody does anymore.
I think it's a great reference,classic actress.
But it got to a point where Ineeded to do something different
.
I had to.
I had sold, I had everythingyou could possibly want in this
world.
I mean, here I am.
At the time I think I was 53,52, 53.
(11:27):
And you know I'm not yourtypical doctor.
I was triple boarded.
I was an executive, I was aleader.
40% of my body is covered withartwork that I've chosen over
the years.
I don't go by doctor, neverreally have.
If patients insisted I would.
But I chose at that point to beuncommon about something else.
(11:47):
I had exhausted pretty much whatI felt was available in Western
medicine.
I started looking outside ofWestern medicine roughly about
three or four years ago.
I was working on a big piece ofthe artwork on my body and of
all things.
My tattoo artist became a veryclose friend of mine who opened
(12:08):
my mind to psychedelic medicine.
I didn't know the two wordsshould even be put together.
The same thing, right?
It's one of those things where,like I don't know man, I
haven't touched anything since Iwas like 18 years old and that
was a really bad trip.
When a good friend of mine puta 10 block in my mustard of a
corn dog I was eating, right,not a good move for me, steve.
(12:30):
Not a good move.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
But hey, we all do shit right.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, yeah and with all that, I eased into it.
But I started pulling theresearch.
I started pulling some NIHstudies.
I started looking at twospecifically, ayahuasca and
ibogaine, and of course, a lotof people heard about both of
them.
Now, especially related totrauma, I seem to be drawn a
little bit more to ibogaine thegodfather of psychedelics, let's
(12:56):
call it right and at that pointI was living in Mexico about a
week a month, working remotely.
That was just part of my exitagreement when I sold the
company Not a bad exit agreementat all, but honestly, steve,
that was the only place I couldsleep through the night.
I'd go to sleep at nightlistening to the ocean outside,
(13:18):
under the stars, and I couldsleep through the whole night,
and it was just amazing sleepthrough the whole night, and it
was just amazing.
So, anyway, I found a clinic inMexico that used Ibogaine and I
went into treatment in Augustof 23.
This is after April of makingthe decision to do so, and at
that point I didn't care.
(13:40):
I didn't care what happened tomy mind, I didn't care what
happened to me, I just knew Icould not be on the medications
anymore.
I didn't care what happened tomy mind.
(14:00):
I didn't care what happened tome, I just knew I could not be
on the medications anymore andmy wife at the time had actually
had three or four episodes ofmy night terrors actually
winding up and me not assaultingher.
But you know is it was the bestdecision I ever made in my life
.
I prepared for months to go intothat journey.
Most people have two sessionsthey go in.
Now I put my hands oneverything I could read, steve.
I talked to consultants, extraconsultants, because I wanted to
(14:23):
make sure that when I went tothat journey it was the most
effective possible and that onedose, that one treatment, it's
here we are.
It's where we're at now.
We're we're coming into Marchnow of 25.
And I've been medication freeever since.
(14:44):
But more importantly, steve,I've been at peace.
What I went through there wasjust absolutely amazing.
But that gives you my bio.
I'll let you ask some specifics.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Where do I go from here?
I mean, there's so many greatthings that you talked about,
you know I would love to hearmore about the psychedelics,
because for me, what peopledon't understand is it like they
think they're going to go tripballs and for the treatment of
trauma is to not trip.
It's actually due to and it'shelped so like at least two or
(15:14):
three of my clients reallyreally well, better than any
antidepressant or TMS that I'veever seen.
And if you don't know what TMSis, it's transmagnetic.
Yeah, not you, I'm talkingabout the audience.
You're a doc, I mean, you knowthis shit.
But I like to talk aboutdifferent treatments and TMS
does work.
But I find it's repetitivewhere I find that if you do the
(15:35):
microdosing and the work withthe psychedelics, you can
actually not need them after awhile, where TMS runs its course
and you got to take it again.
So where can we go?
I mean, there's so many things.
You know I'm sitting here goingwhat part of Mexico?
How can I get that deal?
But I also, you know, like Isaid, thank you for your service
.
I think that what one of thethings that I find struggling in
(15:58):
my clients who served in themilitary is that, you know, on
November 11th, hey, thank youfor your service.
And then the full year goes by.
Hey, thank you for your service.
So I try to point it out onevery day, but Veterans Day for
people.
So really, from the bottom ofmy heart, thank you for your
service as a Canadian.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Thank you for that.
And I have a response to thatthat I didn't have before, and
that's that my service is juststarting.
Oh, great, I'll explain that ina little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Well, how about you go there then?
Because I just want to finishon this In my opinion, I'm an
American now, born and raised inCanada.
I've got dual citizenship.
But the one thing I've neverserved in the military.
So people who minimize theiruse in like going into the
military, I always go.
Yeah, I didn't have the ballsto do it.
So, yeah, you're already betterthan me in that way.
(16:48):
I've served in different ways inthis country and in my country,
but I also kind of like alwayswant to like make sure that I
recognize that outside ofNovember 11th, because I'm sick
and tired of people just doingit on that fucking day.
But anyway, I want to hear yourstory about your service just
starting now, because I see myservice have started probably
somewhere after 16, when Irealized what caused me to be
(17:11):
where I was at, and so I knowwhere my service started.
It was around 16 when Irealized losing my best friend
led me to high depression and alot of different things.
But I want to hear where yourservice.
You say it's just starting.
I want to hear more about that.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, so put yourself in my place.
I had a um.
I was.
I was nicknamed at the clinicthat I went to as the legend
because I came so prepared.
I was real time integrating.
And for those of y'all that knowabout psychedelic medicine,
I'll kind of give you my take onit, my analogies on it.
But it's like when you usepsychedelics for recreation
(17:47):
tripping balls per se, it's likejumping in your favorite sports
car and going for a joyride, ifyou want to use that analogy,
whereas when you're going inwith intention, you're going in
with the plan, you're going intoa space where your walls around
your traumas have been lowered,where they're accessible and
they're recognizable.
But you spend time in yourpre-work because, I want to
(18:10):
stress very clearly, themedicine part of this is only
about 20% of what really needsto happen.
And there's too many fuckingpeople out there that are out
there thinking, if one medicineworks, do more medicine and more
medicine, just keep on going,and they're frying their damn
brains, they're puttingthemselves in really bad
situations.
But for me, I did a lot ofpre-work and that pre-work was,
(18:32):
if we're going back to theanalogy of the sports car is to
say you know, I went in with aroadmap and I went in with a
place and not roadmap places Ineeded to go to, things I needed
to visit and things I needed todo and a checklist on my
intentions per se.
Right, and I came out of itwith a healing that I never knew
(18:53):
was possible.
Now most people when they gointo an experience, we'll see a
lot of things or experience somethings they may not fully
understand, but I was real.
They go into an experience,will see a lot of things or
experience some things they maynot fully understand, but I was
real-time, integrating in myexperience and had just a
phenomenal, phenomenal outcome.
I had this linchpin momentduring my experience where I
kept on getting shown this onepart of my life over and over
(19:15):
again and for me this was 4kreality, third person living
this, where some people go inthey don't remember seeing
anything, but they wake up atpeace.
So it's different for everybody.
I want to stress that.
But my experience was I kept onreliving this one section of a
really tough story that I'vebeen through when I was a trauma
(19:36):
surgeon.
That, basically, was a storythat you just can't imagine
anybody living through Adaughter who had been raped by
her father, since she was ageseven and she was in her 30s,
and her last words on the tablebefore she died from a
murder-suicide between the twoof them was I forgive him.
(19:59):
And I never heard those threewords.
I heard them, but I didn't hearthem.
You know what I mean, right?
And in the experience he kept,I kept seeing it again and again
, and again, and I had a guideand that experience which don't
even get me onto themetaphysical and parts of trying
to understand what that even isbut what I will tell you,
(20:20):
though, is that the message wasreally clear, like don't look,
listen.
And as I listened to it for theumpteenth time, living it again
in this experience, it was, Iheard the words I forgive him,
or her last three words, anyway.
So for me, my service is juststarting.
You have to imagine I woke up onthe other side of this
(20:43):
medication, free, number one,number two, at peace, realizing
there's something beyondhappiness, Didn't even know it,
like a warm, damn blanket, youknow.
And I'm floating around thepool at this place where I went
to get my treatment, and I'mfloating around in the pool at
this place where I went to getmy treatment, and I was just in
(21:14):
dismay, steve, that as aphysician of a huge healthcare
organization that led thatorganization to where it was,
that had tons of doctors, tonsof technology, we always would
pride ourselves on being on theforefront of technology at the
company we built that.
Um, how do we not know aboutthis?
I was forget.
I was just pissed that I foundout about this from my tattoo
guy right, and I wouldn't havepaid two shits of attention to
it otherwise anyway.
(21:35):
So as I was floating around inthat pool trying to think of
what next oh, another nicecoincidence you know the
neuroplasticity that comes fromthese medications I have had a
neuropathy in my left leg sinceI was in the first Gulf War,
falling out of the back of adeuce and a half truck, and it
(21:56):
some days was like my leg andfoot were in burning grease and
other days just dull, painfulpinprick right, it was gone and
it never came back.
My neuropathy still has not comeback.
You know that should beimpossible, but anyway.
So as I float around that pooland let me be clear too, even
(22:17):
when you go in with intentions,there's still some tripping
balls in there.
So trust me, it's, it's anexperience, but um, there's not
just tripping balls for the next36 hours, but anyway right,
right, right, and you're inthere with intention and purpose
, but it's uh, yeah, it'sdefinitely some um interesting
things you experience if youknow how to interpret them.
So anyway, um, I was in dismayabout the fact that why doesn't
(22:41):
Western medicine know about this?
Why did none of my doctors mostof my doctors you got to
realize when I went on this.
We're like what, what are youdoing?
What, what do you mean?
Like you're gonna go fry yourbrain, like come on, man.
And I didn't tell a lot ofpeople.
I told more people when I cameback because it was part of my
journey after that was thatpeople have to know about this
(23:04):
and Ibogaine is not the safestpsychedelic in the world.
I mean, you're talking aboutsomething as a one in 400 death
rate when not administeredproperly in a non-medical
environment.
I didn't know, that.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's definitely not meantfor recreational use, even if it
was safe.
Simply because it's, um, man,it'll beat the hell out of you
(23:24):
if you're not going to becooperative with it.
It will beat the hell out ofyou and your ego.
So, um, I remember that there'sthings they've done to make it
medically safe.
You know magnesium sulfateinfusions prior to and during
your infusion, even vitamin Cbeing utilized now, and a lot of
other things done in an ICUtype setting, with trained
physicians that are there tohandle the arrhythmias that can
(23:46):
come from it.
So, anyway, I chose a goodcenter, went there, had a good
success, but I could not believe.
I almost did not know aboutthis.
So two things came to me.
That's that.
Number one I wanted to buildthe resort I've always wanted to
build.
I have a 20-year-old specialneeds son who is center of my
life and we've always hadtrouble traveling with him, so
(24:09):
we're creating the world's firstever resort for special needs
families down in Mexico.
That's super cool.
And number two I wanted to getback to the veterans.
I wanted to figure out why isthis not more profoundly known?
(24:35):
I went to the Vets Conference inSan Diego, a great organization
that I heard Governor RickPerry and Senator Crenshaw speak
at as they passed the torchbetween each other, and these
guys are, as lawmakers, we'rehaving trouble getting traction,
and from the left and the rightyou've got people in politics
backing this.
Why in the hell isn't goinganywhere?
Well, I won't get into thedepths of why, but I think we
all kind of know why.
But I decided that the reallyonly thing we could do here
(24:57):
would be to give more people theexperience that I had, and what
I meant by that was I could usemy money.
I could use my fortune that Ijust made on selling this major
company to a big conglomerate,or I could use it to educate, to
teach.
So on a plane trip home fromthat conference, I looked over
(25:19):
at my wife at the time and Isaid I'm going to create a TV
show.
Just like what I said, I'mgoing to create a TV show that
isn't just me telling my story.
I could get on podcasts, tellmy story to thousands and tens
of thousands, hundreds ofthousands of people and tens of
thousands and hundreds ofthousands of people.
(25:40):
But how much more effectivewould it be to tell the story of
six first responders orveterans from ground zero of
identifying them and start toend in a docu-series where we
don't even know the outcome.
And that's where the magichappened.
So I've never directed,produced or anything before.
But you know what, as a leaderin an organization, you don't
(26:02):
have to be an expert ateverything.
You just got to know the peoplethat are and bring them on the
team.
And I learned that well overthe years and plus I've been
watching TV since I was born, soI'm an expert, right.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
We all know about TV.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
We all know about that right.
I mean I grew we all.
We all know about tv.
We all know about that right.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I mean I grew up watching marcus wellby, I really
just dated myself right there.
But uh, marcus wellby, I'mwaiting for you to talk about
trapper john md yes, sir bam.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
So I, we put together healing heroes, no mind left
behind, and it is a docuseriesthat season one is complete and
will be launching this year.
Where I originally was justgoing to be a pilot, I uh, when
I got home from my treatmentsteve, I?
Um turned off most electron.
I went to one meeting back atthe company where they had to
(26:52):
change their tattoo policy forme and everything.
They were really sweet.
But I there, I think, for 45minutes, and I looked around the
room with the miserable peoplein that room answering emails
and some of them listening, someof them not, and I stood up
after 45 minutes and I just Iwalked out.
I couldn't be there anymore,could not be there anymore and
(27:16):
never went back.
Anyway, so I started working onthese things, these two
projects, and I had about threeo'clock in the morning I turned
my phone on and when I turned myphone on, there was a Facebook.
I don't know even why I went toFacebook, but I'd been on my
phone in weeks and there wasRyan.
Now, ryan was the son andgrandson of some patients I'd
(27:38):
taken care of for a coupledecades and I watched his
history in the military.
I watched his um, watch thestory unfold as he got hit by an
IED.
Uh, he was actually on the teamthat would detect him.
He was the dog handler.
He just great story.
So he had a traumatic braininjury as well as PTSD when he
left and I'd watch his videosthis video going.
(27:59):
I'm doing great working for mydad now.
Everything's awesome, but youknow how to look through it.
I know how to look through itRight and it's just that I'm
like nah nah, nah and um, he was.
Uh, he was on Facebook live.
It was three o'clock in themorning and he was in full
confession.
That was either he pick up thephone and do a Facebook live
(28:20):
asking for help or he was goingto put the gun back in his mouth
.
And I was viewer one of one.
And at three in the morning Iwatched that thing and I called
him the next day.
Took a little bit to getthrough him.
He thought I was trying to getin touch with his dad, but no,
it was him, told him about whatI'd been through and I told him
he goes, man, I can't affordthat man, I ain't got that kind
(28:41):
of money.
I was like I'll pay for it,brother, I don't care.
And a few days the pilot.
Anyway, long story short, Iwanted somebody to balance him
in the show, somebody, a femaledemographic, somebody, just to
(29:01):
tell the story from perspectiveof.
Well, you and your viewers know,trauma, ptsd is not a diagnosis
of special forces, it's not adiagnosis of combat, it's not a
diagnosis of the military.
It is a diagnosis that you wantto remove the word disorder
from it.
And now you've got anxiety,depression, insomnia.
You've got every symptom thattrauma or stress has led to.
(29:23):
It's just a slightly differentmagnitude.
But we're too busy in Westernmedicine labeling symptoms as a
problem and trying to treat them.
Oh, don't get me started, butanyway.
So I joined up with MissionWithin out of Tijuana and they
fed me some really goodcandidates.
I couldn't say no to any ofthem, steve.
Their stories were justremarkable.
(29:43):
So I took all of them and Ifunded all of season one of
Healing Heroes.
No Mind Left Behind where we gothrough the US, starting in
June of last year, weinterviewed their inner circle,
their families.
We interviewed the people thatknew them from childhood usually
(30:04):
when most of their traumasfirst happened and told a story.
And I ask a question.
I'll give you a littleprecursor to the show for all of
them multiple times.
I'm just like all right, soyou're a kid with your box of
crayons right and you're sittingthere and you're drawing a
landscape.
What's the sky look like inthat landscape when you're a kid
?
What it looked like when youcame back from the military,
what does it look like now?
And in it all?
(30:29):
Most people think that thereason I'm asking the question
is because I'm trying to gaugewhere their mental state is at
that point right, uh, theturmoil, the dark gray skies,
the lightning, the darknessversus blue sky and birds and
clouds and unicorns and stuff.
But no, that wasn't the reasonfor the question and I'll tell
you for it at the end of it.
But, um, basically, I had, umthe privilege of bringing those
(30:53):
six individuals down to Tulum inMexico, to a resort that I took
down for just the show broughthealers in.
But we did a multifacetedapproach.
We had sound healing, we hadmeditation education, we had
watsu, we had Qigong, we had somany different healings that we
(31:13):
brought in to this, in fact, agreat part of the story.
Barney Fritz was a friend and aphysician, a friend of mine in
the military, who came on theshow as some backup another
physician just to back up incase anything happened.
He did everything but themedicine and we went through the
stages of healing that wedesigned just for veterans for
the show and his outcome wasremarkable even without the
medicine.
And we went through the stagesof healing that we designed just
(31:34):
for veterans for the show, andhis outcome was remarkable even
without the medicine.
It was really pretty great.
Everything starts withgratitude, so we could stop you
at some point.
We're going to stop you.
Yeah, because I've been writingnotes.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
For those who go on YouTube you'll see I was writing
notes.
So there's so many things Iwant to say.
One of the biggest mistakesthat I do as I tell people in
therapy is that the biggestmistakes you'll ever do is the
pursuit of happiness.
While it is okay to be happy,being happy all the time is just
not possible, and you got to beable to learn from the sadness,
(32:08):
the anger, the disgust andeverything else.
Not put it down.
I mentioned that.
And talking about medicine, boy, do I have a conversation with
you?
I think that if you ever wantto come back on, I can have an
hour conversation about howpeople misuse medication, and
think I just had thisconversation with someone who's
like yeah, I'm still feeling alittle depressed.
(32:29):
You've been in therapy forthree weeks.
Yeah, you're still going to bedepressed.
I don't work miracles, but Ineed something.
Now I'm like so prozac takessix weeks.
I mean, I don't like I don'tknow what to tell you, so just
want to mention that I alsowrote a, wrote down like oh,
yeah, he hangs out a reallyshitty place in san diego,
mexico.
Sorry man, that's really hard.
I apologize.
(32:49):
The tattoo stuff made me laughbecause I don't have a tattoo,
but I always found it veryinteresting that people judge
because someone has a tattoo.
Who gives a crap?
You have a nose ring andearring, I don't care.
Are you doing the job?
Are you doing what I need to?
I don't care.
After that, we need to get overourselves.
And you talk about the politic,politics of all this.
(33:11):
You know, like for me, you talkabout the left or the right.
No, there's businesses, controlboth and they're the issue.
And yes, I said it on thispodcast.
And if I don't get one sponsorbecause I've said this, I'm okay
with it, because to me, it'sbig business.
Who controls the politics now?
Not politicians, nor do people.
(33:31):
But hey, you're in Mexico, Ican always go back to Canada, so
we're good.
But I want to hear more about,because the other part of the
medicine I wrote down also thesymptoms versus the treatment.
We try to minimize symptoms butwe don't do the treatment.
No, we got to do the treatmentin order to minimize the
symptoms, but people don't wantto do the treatment because it's
(33:53):
hard, because that's how it is.
So now I'm having diarrhea ofthe mouth because I can go on
about all this, but I want tohear more about the docu-series
because, from my perspective, ifsound healing, chameleon salts,
ayahuasca me talking to youworks, I don't care.
(34:14):
I shared this story, so I'mgoing to go on a tangent.
I promise I'll let you talkafter this.
I had a guy when I worked atparole who came in.
He was on his seven or eightDUI it doesn't really matter
which one he's up to and theylook at me like hey, he drank
again.
He's only got about 30 daysleft on it.
We don't want to send him back.
What you're gonna do?
So I sat down with him talking.
He's staring at my desk andhe's like what's that?
(34:35):
I said, oh, it's a littlebuddha.
It was a little wooden buddha.
They're like oh, what is buddha, buddhism about?
So I shared it with him.
He's like can I keep it?
And I said are you gonna staysober?
He's like yeah, it's okay, takeit.
And again, I don't know wherehe is today.
This is years ago.
But for the 30 days that I waswith him and even parole told me
like he's never stayed soberthat long, ever that we know of.
(34:58):
So people like well, did youpush Buddhism?
No, it's a piece of wood reallywhen you think about it.
That's what kept them sober.
I don't care what works, I justdon't care what works.
And I think that when you talkabout doctors who are like you,
who are very much open to thesecreations of what can or cannot
help instead of going you knowwhat an infusion of this that?
(35:20):
No, how about we just fuckingmeet the person where they're at
and talk to them and then gofrom there?
That's when doctorsunfortunately have moved from
because of the decision tree andall that fun stuff.
But, um, anyway, I'm gonna shutup now.
I'm going to let you continuetalking about the docu-series,
unless you have any reactions towhat I just said.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
No, I couldn't agree with you more.
And you know, the art ofmedicine becomes more of the
algorithm of medicine every day,of evidence-based medicine, and
you do this and you do this.
There's something about the artof it that tends to go a little
bit more every year, and Ithink that's why you see such
dissatisfaction amongst healthcare providers these days.
You know that's a whole othershow right there, but yeah, I'll
(36:01):
tell you, I'll tell you moreabout the show.
So you know, we take theseveterans down and for 10 days in
Tulum.
Let me ask you this so in yourdays of providing service and
therapy, in a year's time, Steve, how many days in that year do?
(36:24):
you get one of those.
Yes, moments per client, I'mlucky.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, any year period any year period, I probably
have, like I would say, 12 to 14, roughly aha moments, as I call
them.
Like I would say 12 to 14roughly aha moments, as I call
them uh, the eureka moment, andthey that's because it takes
time and you got to break down14 different barriers in order
to get there and the defensemechanism of human beings.
You know, you can go freudianon my ass all you want, but I
(36:48):
think we also develop thesetools to protect ourselves,
including our amygdala.
We can go on about the braintoo, for several hours, but yeah
, that's what I think it is like.
Do I get 12 to 14 a year?
Probably I get a few fuck yousin a good way, not in a bad way
for my clients and I.
People like, oh, you get upsetabout no, it's great when they
say fuck you, that means you gotthem, uh, but otherwise, ahas,
(37:10):
maybe once a month I get a goodhaha moment of like, oh my God,
this is breakthrough.
So that's my experience.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
So I had 10 days consecutive, of the most amazing
10 days of my career, watchingthose six individuals actually
seven if you include Dr Fritz gothrough transformation,
something we created, thatmedicine augmenting and the
healing that happened.
(37:37):
And those six, seven, all eightof us, now nine, 10 that were
on the show are like a familyand that's that loss of
community really is a big partof what we lose in the military.
You know, if you look at thegeneral problem in PTSD, it's
not just what we're exposed toin the military, it's.
It's not just what we'reexposed to in the military, it's
.
It's being thrown into anenvironment where we leave the
(37:58):
military and I call it theunwritten trauma, the unsung
trauma, where you know we're nolonger with people of the same
mentality and the same cultureof camaraderie and we typically
are not doing our same jobsanymore because not quite legal
to do that on the outside darn.
But you know we lose thatpurpose, and that loss of
purpose with loss of communityare two really big hits to
(38:21):
basically setting you up for thelowest of lows of your life,
man, let me tell you.
So what I would tell you isthat at the 10-day mark when we
disbanded, and about a monthafterwards I went back through
and I re-interviewed all thesame people and sometimes a
little bit more to get theirstories.
(38:42):
Probably I can sum it up withMaisie.
Maisie is Keegan's daughter outof the Northwest in Oregon, but
it latches onto me like crazywhen I go.
I'm Uncle Charlie.
Now, right, and just the cutestthing is Keegan and his wife.
Their kids are just amazing.
And she said this one commentwhen we went out to the State
(39:03):
Park and I wasn't allowed tofilm in the State Park, which
was like so disheartening so Iwanted to capture this, which he
captured it later.
She goes thanks for giving memy daddy back and she goes
thanks for giving me my daddyback.
And you get a comment like thatand you know you did good, you
know you did right.
So this show is powerful, it is, uh, telling, it is full of
(39:26):
heart.
But it's really changed in itsfocus as we've been editing it
and getting season one ready.
By the way, the reason that Iasked those participants for the
color of the sky and theirlandscape wasn't necessarily to
gauge where they were.
It was to tell them this at theend of their healing process
that they were in down there.
(39:47):
They were the artist all thetime.
You know they were the artistseach time.
And once people realize thatthey're the, they're the writer,
director and producer of theirown movie of life, understanding
that everything's going to behappy and you're going to learn
a lot more from the hard timesthan you are from the easy times
(40:08):
.
So embrace them and lean intothat wave as it hits you Cool
scene in the show.
I can't wait.
I don't know which episode it'sgoing to be on yet, but we all,
after ice plunges, ran into theocean in Tulum and you know, you
see that first wave hit thefirst few people and it's
knocking on their ass and theystand up.
A couple of people just standthere going I ain't going any
(40:31):
further and a few times and thenyou see, finally I start to
learn to dive through the waves.
And then there's Keegan bodysurfing a wave back in and
you're just like that isn't liferight there, and how you get
through those waves that hit youagain and again.
You know I got a new thing now,rather than asking people, how
(40:54):
are you doing in life?
I guess your head above water.
You know that's the main thing.
It's your head above water.
You know that's a key thing,but anyway the show's
spectacular.
We don't know exactly whereit's going to live yet.
We've got a lot of potential.
We've been looking at a movietheater debut and an option
there.
But we're looking at May 31st,memorial day.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Oh perfect.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
I know it's short timeframe and we're really up
against the wall on it, but hey,you got to draw a line in the
sand and shoot for it at least.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Well, in post-production at least, and
that's possible once you're inpost-production just puts a lot
of pressure on everyone else.
No, I know, you know, that'sI'm.
I'm so excited to see thisbecause I think that people
don't see the development oftreatment.
They think it's a one and done.
You know, like what you see onTV or whatever, treatment takes
(41:45):
a long time, and having sixepisodes to see that progress is
perfect and six is much more.
I don't know if you said six,but-.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Six participants, nine episodes yes, Nine episodes
Nine episodes, I apologize.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
And with the nine episodes it's palpable for
people to listen to nineepisodes.
It's not palpable to listen to23 episodes for progress, but we
all know that it takes thatmuch time, if not more,
sometimes.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
You know Western medicine and you've lived this
does not view mental health asbeing real in a lot of
situations, or it's secondary.
It's something's wrong with youwhen, if you think about it, we
spend so much time in Westernmedicine making this physical
thing that gets our minds aroundas healthy as we can, but we
don't spend much time on themind and preventative type stuff
(42:33):
and things to keep it healthy.
And the purpose of the show wasfor awareness that these
treatments were even available.
But what it evolved intohonestly, steve, was an
awareness that it's okay not tobe okay.
Mental health is real.
55% of Americans, I believe, atsome point in their life will
suffer from a mental healthissue, which means to me you
(42:54):
have a 100% chance eithersuffering from one or having
somebody you love go through one.
So pay attention to thecontents of the show, because
this isn't just about healing.
It's also about preventing andteaching you healthy ways to
deal with the stuff that comesat you in life.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Absolutely, and I think that you know I go back to
a conversation with what wecall the mental men on my
podcast and we talked aboutisn't most of mental health
issues based on trauma?
And it doesn't have to be a bigT trauma, small T trauma, but
it's our reaction to that stuffas part of it, because I mean, I
(43:31):
would argue that sometimespeople with breathing issues,
neuropathy, other medical issues, is really based on mental
health issues that need to beaddressed in order to heal the
body.
But I think that I just saidsomething that Western medicine
would look at me and go, and Iknow you wouldn't.
Obviously you seem to be onboard with what I'm saying, but
it's the truth.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Yeah, it is Mind and body.
Mind, body and soul.
I mean there's a lot to it injust three words put on a plaque
.
Right, it's for real.
You know, what's interesting isthat as I've explored more into
this realm of this world, I'vegotten it wasn't just Ibogaine.
I've looked into ayahuasca,psilocybin, and really just
understanding this, because Ifigured if I'm going to make a
(44:14):
show about it, I better be somekind of an expert about it.
But what I find consistent isthis whether you're trying to
explain what's happening from ascientific standpoint, a
mystical standpoint or aspiritual standpoint, a lot of
times it's all the same words,just slightly different word,
(44:34):
but all the same meaning.
And you find so much crossoverbetween the three that you're
just like they're all threewrong, they're all three right
and it doesn't matter.
Just look at the end result.
Come to your own conclusionsonce you see these six go
through, because we're going todo it again season after season
after season Reproducible.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Exactly after season, reproducible Exactly.
And if you think that solvingone will solve the other two,
you are in the wrong world.
You can be spiritually sound,but it doesn't fix your physical
and your mental.
You got to do all the work andagain getting back to the
pursuit of happiness, I feelslightly open, better because
I'm praying this God or thisbelief system that makes me
(45:15):
fixed.
No, that doesn't.
That means that you have abelief system and now you've got
to work on the other stuff.
You know I see it a lot ondifferent ways, but you know I
want to be respectful of yourtime.
I truly, you know I started aconversation here saying, hey,
maybe it'll be a few episodes.
Charles, from the bottom Ishould say few episodes.
(45:35):
Charles, from the bottom of myheart, you're always invited
back Anytime you want to contactme again to talk about anything
.
I truly felt very connected toyou.
I really thought that we didreally good together.
But as we wrap up, I want toknow what you want to.
Really, we don't have a placeyet for your show, but do you
have other things that you wantto talk about to people find you
(45:56):
and reach you out?
Speaker 3 (45:58):
I'll tell you I'll do one of the best, steve.
The second trailer for the showis about to hit here.
In the next several weeks I'llbring it back to your show for a
debut man.
It's pretty cool.
We're super excited.
We got three and a half millionhits and views in the first I
think four or five days that welaunched it last time, so it's
got a lot of traction.
Wherever this lives, it's goingto be where it has the most
(46:20):
impact and that means if I haveto let it live on YouTube for
the most viewership, it willlive on YouTube on my dollar,
right?
But whatever's meant to happenis going to happen and the right
opportunity is going to show upwhen it's supposed to's just
how it works for me now.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
I can't explain it I think it's because you've seen
what not processing all thatstuff does.
So now, when you become lessselfish and become more selfless
, we all have selfish sides,that's just life.
I think that you realize, like,my podcast is something similar
to that.
Some people like, oh, you don'tmonetize it enough.
(46:55):
Like, is it impacting thepeople it needs to impact?
Yeah, I don't care, I justdon't care, it's not about that.
Yeah, could it be nice to beJoe Rogan, as we joked around
earlier?
Yeah, sure, and I'd be great,but in some ways you got to
compromise who you are whenyou're that big.
I ain't going to compromiseshit about who I am.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
I agree with you on that man.
I agree with you on that.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
So I want to thank you for your time and if you're
saying you're coming back, I'mgoing to say soon to be
returning.
Yes, charlie Powell, thank you.
Thank you Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Steve, I look forward to meeting you in person,
face-to-face, at some point too.
Brother, I want to go to mexico.
Bring it, we'll do our.
We'll do your next show downthere.
I got a great setup for youperfect.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Well, that completes episode 200.
Dr charles powell, I will holdyou to this promise that you
will come back.
I really look forward to havingyou back on.
Uh, you guys, go check all hisstuff out.
They'll be in the show notes.
Can't wait to hear thedocu-series and how it goes.
So that's that.
So I hope you join me for thenext episode with the
(47:59):
developments that we're doingright now, because we're going
to be working with a lot offirst responders and grief and
trauma.
The next episode will be withMichael Sugri.
I hope I had his name right andI hope you join us then.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(48:37):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
Welcome to Resilience Development in Action, where
strength meets strategy andcourage to help you move forward
.
Each week, your host, steveBisson, a therapist with over
two decades of experience in thefirst responder community,
brings you powerfulconversations about resilience,
growth and healing throughtrauma and grief.
Whether you're navigating thecomplex journey of grief,
(00:22):
processing trauma or seeking tobuild resilience in high-stress
environments, this podcast isyour trusted companion.
From first responders facingdaily challenges to emergency
personnel managing criticalsituations, to leaders carrying
the weight of difficultdecisions, we're here to support
your journey.
Through authentic interviews,expert discussions and
(00:43):
real-world experiences, we divedeep into the heart of human
resilience.
We explore crucial topics liketrauma recovery, grief
processing, stress managementand emotional well-being.
Our conversations bridge thegap between professional insight
and practical application,offering you tools and
strategies that work in the realworld.
(01:03):
Join us as we create a spacewhere healing is possible, where
grief finds understanding andwhere resilience becomes your
foundation for growth.
This is Resilience Developmentin Action with Steve Bisson.
Speaker 2 (01:17):
Well, welcome to the 200th episode of my podcast that
is now fully rebranded underResilience, development and
Action.
My name is Steve Bissau.
I hope you like the changes.
I hope you like what we'regoing to talk about, because
it's all the stuff that's seemedto be popular with most of you
and I'm looking forward to doingthat.
So for the 200th episode, Ihave Dr Charles Powell.
(01:41):
Dr Charles Powell is a doctorthat is a decorated former Naval
Lieutenant Commander, wasveteran of multiple medical
patent holder, former owner andchief medical officer of a major
office in Texas.
He is the father of a specialneeds son, charlie.
I'm sure he's going to talkabout that.
He was the inspiration for StCharlie Resorts and we'll talk
(02:02):
about that.
Who's the inspiration for saintcharlie resorts?
And, uh, we'll talk about thatfor sure.
Uh, he also founded solo vive,which hopefully we will also
talk about, as well as gettingready for a healing heroes uh,
docuseries, which he's going totalk about for sure.
Um, so here's the interview andI'm very excited.
(02:22):
I hope you guys like it.
So here's the interview and I'mvery excited.
I hope you guys like it.
Great service Imagine being ableto pay attention to your
(02:44):
clients all the time instead ofwriting notes and making sure
that the note's going to soundgood and how are you going to
write that note, and things likethat, getfreeai liberates you
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saying, because it is keepingtrack of what you're saying and
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But it goes above and beyondthat.
(03:05):
Not only does it create aprogress note, it also gives you
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So that's the great, greatthing.
It saves me time, it saves me alot of aggravation and it just
(03:27):
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And for $99 a month I know thatthat's nothing.
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(04:32):
Well, I want to welcome everyoneto the premiere episode of
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I'm very excited.
It's a new rebrand.
We're going to talk about itsoon.
It's a great episode.
I'm so excited because, uh,charles powell dr charles powell
, excuse me, but I call himcharlie was recommended to me
and, just reading his bio, youget a lot of those as a podcast
(04:56):
person and yours was like Ianswered, I think within 20
minutes or so, and I couldn'twait to meet you.
So I can't tell you how excitedI am to be talking with charlie
powell.
Speaker 3 (05:09):
Welcome thank you, steve, thank you very much I
read your bio.
Speaker 2 (05:14):
That's why, like right away, I said when can we
meet?
Uh, to you, to the person whocontacted me.
So what I would like you to dois maybe I can describe what you
told me, but it's no fun, it'llbe too clinical anyway.
So might as well go with yourdefinition of who is Charlie
Powell.
Speaker 3 (05:33):
You know, a movie studio recently approached me
about buying the rights of mylife story and I didn't
understand why.
To me it's just my life.
But he said I've had a ForrestGump life.
I've lived five lifetimes inthis life that are just been
amazing.
I'm a dad, first and foremost,single dad, taking care of my
kids, love them to death.
I was a physician for 26 years.
(05:53):
I'm still a physician.
In that time I was tripleboarded, originally in family
medicine, then in trauma,emergency room medicine and
eventually cosmetics.
I spent 16 years of my life inthe military, four years in the
army, 12 years in the Navy, andthat's how I was able to afford
my education.
I go by the mantra of a plaquethat my father gave me for
(06:16):
Christmas when I was 12 yearsold that says choose not to be
common.
And I am far from common.
I built up.
I built up uh 2005,.
I left the Navy and I built upa huge healthcare organization
in North Texas and eventuallysold it to United Healthcare.
No ominous music in thebackground necessary, but um,
(06:36):
anyway sold it off to them anduh basically went on a journey
of healing myself.
Uh, I was in corporate Americaat that time and learning that
the differences between runninga business in healthcare and
being in corporate healthcarewere totally different not quite
suited for my taste.
I had been on medications fromthe VA for decades for PTSD.
(07:01):
Probably at about 2007, twoyears after I left the Navy is
when I really started noticingsomething wasn't right.
Personally Now, granted, I hadstarted off when I was 19.
I joined the Army to pay forcollege, and the day I graduated
from in-vets individualtraining as a combat medic in
the Army was the day thatOperation Desert Shield became
(07:23):
Operation Desert Storm.
And so welcome to adulthood.
Really really quick From thereI demobilized, came back, went
to school, had a great education.
I stayed in the military longerthan I needed to by my
obligation.
I just enjoyed the culture, Ienjoyed the camaraderie and I
enjoyed the training.
I got excellent, top-notchtraining with people that I
(07:46):
really cared about serving.
So I ended in 2005 as theAfghanistan conflict started to
heat up and at that point cameout into civilian practice and
worked for a place for about ayear and a half, bought it and
built it into a hugeorganization that I previously
mentioned that I sold.
So in that time I also dealtwith the struggles of PTSD.
(08:11):
I started off with occasionalnight terrors.
I've suffered from sleepparalysis since I was probably
about seven years old, where Iwake up but your body doesn't
wake up with you familiar withit, right up, but your body
doesn't wake up with you uh,familiar with it, right.
And all you can do is closeyour eyes, reboot, wake up again
and uh, that couple with nightterrors is not a good
(08:31):
combination, and so they evolvedimmensely over a period of
years.
Um, many of the medications Iwas tried on SSRIs, snris and
whatnot just had side effects ordepersonalized me to the point
where it was like I was watchingmy life through a movie theater
.
I hit multiple low points aboutthe same time every year, right
(08:53):
around June, for some reason,and that annual low point would
culminate into me being isolated, me being more withdrawn and
over a period of time I meanyears ago even into alcoholism,
and I was never diagnosed.
I just drank a lot and I drankmost nights and realized after a
(09:13):
couple of years that's not howI wanted to live.
So I stopped that too it wasthat easy for me, luckily but
moved on to greener pastures.
And you know, through the yearsI went through multiple
therapies group therapy,one-on-one therapy and you know,
through the years I wentthrough multiple therapies group
therapy, one-on-one therapy and, as you well know, steve,
therapists come in all sorts ofdifferent shapes and sizes as
far as quality of what you get.
(09:34):
But as a physician, when youknow what the next question is
already coming at you, when youknow the technique that's coming
at you, after a while yourealize okay, am I really in the
right arena?
So, after suffering for anumber of years, to the point
where my lowest point I justsold my company and just gone
(09:58):
through six, seven months ofdiligence, which, on a company
that size it was.
They knew everything about me,inside and out, seven days a
week, working 12 hour days.
Then I got COVID.
After three years of survivingCOVID with my institution and
being on the forefront and thefront line serving our
communities, I finally got COVID.
And on top of all that andeverything, I just I hit the
(10:22):
lowest point I ever had in mylife.
It was around a June timeframe.
I remember that I never had aplan, but for the first time I
could understand suicide.
For the first time I couldunderstand how somebody's mind
could get there and it didn'tscare me, I was alert to it.
I was aware of it, but itdidn't.
(10:44):
It didn't scare me.
I was alert to it, I was awareof it, but it didn't scare me.
From that I had been onmedication for about I don't
know 15 years, pretty stablefrom the VA and others.
One of the medications hadcaused me a central nervous
system tremor that would comeout in board meetings If you put
half a Coca-Cola in me or halfa cup of coffee in me.
I sounded like KatharineHepburn and I don't know about
(11:06):
your audience, but my kids don'teven understand that reference.
Hardly anybody does anymore.
I think it's a great reference,classic actress.
But it got to a point where Ineeded to do something different
.
I had to.
I had sold, I had everythingyou could possibly want in this
world.
I mean, here I am.
At the time I think I was 53,52, 53.
(11:27):
And you know I'm not yourtypical doctor.
I was triple boarded.
I was an executive, I was aleader.
40% of my body is covered withartwork that I've chosen over
the years.
I don't go by doctor, neverreally have.
If patients insisted I would.
But I chose at that point to beuncommon about something else.
(11:47):
I had exhausted pretty much whatI felt was available in Western
medicine.
I started looking outside ofWestern medicine roughly about
three or four years ago.
I was working on a big piece ofthe artwork on my body and of
all things.
My tattoo artist became a veryclose friend of mine who opened
(12:08):
my mind to psychedelic medicine.
I didn't know the two wordsshould even be put together.
The same thing, right?
It's one of those things where,like I don't know man, I
haven't touched anything since Iwas like 18 years old and that
was a really bad trip.
When a good friend of mine puta 10 block in my mustard of a
corn dog I was eating, right,not a good move for me, steve.
(12:30):
Not a good move.
Speaker 2 (12:31):
But hey, we all do shit right.
Speaker 3 (12:36):
Yeah, yeah and with all that, I eased into it.
But I started pulling theresearch.
I started pulling some NIHstudies.
I started looking at twospecifically, ayahuasca and
ibogaine, and of course, a lotof people heard about both of
them.
Now, especially related totrauma, I seem to be drawn a
little bit more to ibogaine thegodfather of psychedelics, let's
(12:56):
call it right and at that pointI was living in Mexico about a
week a month, working remotely.
That was just part of my exitagreement when I sold the
company Not a bad exit agreementat all, but honestly, steve,
that was the only place I couldsleep through the night.
I'd go to sleep at nightlistening to the ocean outside,
(13:18):
under the stars, and I couldsleep through the whole night,
and it was just amazing sleepthrough the whole night, and it
was just amazing.
So, anyway, I found a clinic inMexico that used Ibogaine and I
went into treatment in Augustof 23.
This is after April of makingthe decision to do so, and at
that point I didn't care.
(13:40):
I didn't care what happened tomy mind, I didn't care what
happened to me, I just knew Icould not be on the medications
anymore.
I didn't care what happened tomy mind.
(14:00):
I didn't care what happened tome, I just knew I could not be
on the medications anymore andmy wife at the time had actually
had three or four episodes ofmy night terrors actually
winding up and me not assaultingher.
But you know is it was the bestdecision I ever made in my life
.
I prepared for months to go intothat journey.
Most people have two sessionsthey go in.
Now I put my hands oneverything I could read, steve.
I talked to consultants, extraconsultants, because I wanted to
(14:23):
make sure that when I went tothat journey it was the most
effective possible and that onedose, that one treatment, it's
here we are.
It's where we're at now.
We're we're coming into Marchnow of 25.
And I've been medication freeever since.
(14:44):
But more importantly, steve,I've been at peace.
What I went through there wasjust absolutely amazing.
But that gives you my bio.
I'll let you ask some specifics.
Speaker 2 (14:54):
Where do I go from here?
I mean, there's so many greatthings that you talked about,
you know I would love to hearmore about the psychedelics,
because for me, what peopledon't understand is it like they
think they're going to go tripballs and for the treatment of
trauma is to not trip.
It's actually due to and it'shelped so like at least two or
(15:14):
three of my clients reallyreally well, better than any
antidepressant or TMS that I'veever seen.
And if you don't know what TMSis, it's transmagnetic.
Yeah, not you, I'm talkingabout the audience.
You're a doc, I mean, you knowthis shit.
But I like to talk aboutdifferent treatments and TMS
does work.
But I find it's repetitivewhere I find that if you do the
(15:35):
microdosing and the work withthe psychedelics, you can
actually not need them after awhile, where TMS runs its course
and you got to take it again.
So where can we go?
I mean, there's so many things.
You know I'm sitting here goingwhat part of Mexico?
How can I get that deal?
But I also, you know, like Isaid, thank you for your service
.
I think that what one of thethings that I find struggling in
(15:58):
my clients who served in themilitary is that, you know, on
November 11th, hey, thank youfor your service.
And then the full year goes by.
Hey, thank you for your service.
So I try to point it out onevery day, but Veterans Day for
people.
So really, from the bottom ofmy heart, thank you for your
service as a Canadian.
Speaker 3 (16:14):
Thank you for that.
And I have a response to thatthat I didn't have before, and
that's that my service is juststarting.
Oh, great, I'll explain that ina little bit.
Speaker 2 (16:23):
Well, how about you go there then?
Because I just want to finishon this In my opinion, I'm an
American now, born and raised inCanada.
I've got dual citizenship.
But the one thing I've neverserved in the military.
So people who minimize theiruse in like going into the
military, I always go.
Yeah, I didn't have the ballsto do it.
So, yeah, you're already betterthan me in that way.
(16:48):
I've served in different ways inthis country and in my country,
but I also kind of like alwayswant to like make sure that I
recognize that outside ofNovember 11th, because I'm sick
and tired of people just doingit on that fucking day.
But anyway, I want to hear yourstory about your service just
starting now, because I see myservice have started probably
somewhere after 16, when Irealized what caused me to be
(17:11):
where I was at, and so I knowwhere my service started.
It was around 16 when Irealized losing my best friend
led me to high depression and alot of different things.
But I want to hear where yourservice.
You say it's just starting.
I want to hear more about that.
Speaker 3 (17:26):
Well, so put yourself in my place.
I had a um.
I was.
I was nicknamed at the clinicthat I went to as the legend
because I came so prepared.
I was real time integrating.
And for those of y'all that knowabout psychedelic medicine,
I'll kind of give you my take onit, my analogies on it.
But it's like when you usepsychedelics for recreation
(17:47):
tripping balls per se, it's likejumping in your favorite sports
car and going for a joyride, ifyou want to use that analogy,
whereas when you're going inwith intention, you're going in
with the plan, you're going intoa space where your walls around
your traumas have been lowered,where they're accessible and
they're recognizable.
But you spend time in yourpre-work because, I want to
(18:10):
stress very clearly, themedicine part of this is only
about 20% of what really needsto happen.
And there's too many fuckingpeople out there that are out
there thinking, if one medicineworks, do more medicine and more
medicine, just keep on going,and they're frying their damn
brains, they're puttingthemselves in really bad
situations.
But for me, I did a lot ofpre-work and that pre-work was,
(18:32):
if we're going back to theanalogy of the sports car is to
say you know, I went in with aroadmap and I went in with a
place and not roadmap places Ineeded to go to, things I needed
to visit and things I needed todo and a checklist on my
intentions per se.
Right, and I came out of itwith a healing that I never knew
(18:53):
was possible.
Now most people when they gointo an experience, we'll see a
lot of things or experience somethings they may not fully
understand, but I was real.
They go into an experience,will see a lot of things or
experience some things they maynot fully understand, but I was
real-time, integrating in myexperience and had just a
phenomenal, phenomenal outcome.
I had this linchpin momentduring my experience where I
kept on getting shown this onepart of my life over and over
(19:15):
again and for me this was 4kreality, third person living
this, where some people go inthey don't remember seeing
anything, but they wake up atpeace.
So it's different for everybody.
I want to stress that.
But my experience was I kept onreliving this one section of a
really tough story that I'vebeen through when I was a trauma
(19:36):
surgeon.
That, basically, was a storythat you just can't imagine
anybody living through Adaughter who had been raped by
her father, since she was ageseven and she was in her 30s,
and her last words on the tablebefore she died from a
murder-suicide between the twoof them was I forgive him.
(19:59):
And I never heard those threewords.
I heard them, but I didn't hearthem.
You know what I mean, right?
And in the experience he kept,I kept seeing it again and again
, and again, and I had a guideand that experience which don't
even get me onto themetaphysical and parts of trying
to understand what that even isbut what I will tell you,
(20:20):
though, is that the message wasreally clear, like don't look,
listen.
And as I listened to it for theumpteenth time, living it again
in this experience, it was, Iheard the words I forgive him,
or her last three words, anyway.
So for me, my service is juststarting.
You have to imagine I woke up onthe other side of this
(20:43):
medication, free, number one,number two, at peace, realizing
there's something beyondhappiness, Didn't even know it,
like a warm, damn blanket, youknow.
And I'm floating around thepool at this place where I went
to get my treatment, and I'mfloating around in the pool at
this place where I went to getmy treatment, and I was just in
(21:14):
dismay, steve, that as aphysician of a huge healthcare
organization that led thatorganization to where it was,
that had tons of doctors, tonsof technology, we always would
pride ourselves on being on theforefront of technology at the
company we built that.
Um, how do we not know aboutthis?
I was forget.
I was just pissed that I foundout about this from my tattoo
guy right, and I wouldn't havepaid two shits of attention to
it otherwise anyway.
(21:35):
So as I was floating around inthat pool trying to think of
what next oh, another nicecoincidence you know the
neuroplasticity that comes fromthese medications I have had a
neuropathy in my left leg sinceI was in the first Gulf War,
falling out of the back of adeuce and a half truck, and it
(21:56):
some days was like my leg andfoot were in burning grease and
other days just dull, painfulpinprick right, it was gone and
it never came back.
My neuropathy still has not comeback.
You know that should beimpossible, but anyway.
So as I float around that pooland let me be clear too, even
(22:17):
when you go in with intentions,there's still some tripping
balls in there.
So trust me, it's, it's anexperience, but um, there's not
just tripping balls for the next36 hours, but anyway right,
right, right, and you're inthere with intention and purpose
, but it's uh, yeah, it'sdefinitely some um interesting
things you experience if youknow how to interpret them.
So anyway, um, I was in dismayabout the fact that why doesn't
(22:41):
Western medicine know about this?
Why did none of my doctors mostof my doctors you got to
realize when I went on this.
We're like what, what are youdoing?
What, what do you mean?
Like you're gonna go fry yourbrain, like come on, man.
And I didn't tell a lot ofpeople.
I told more people when I cameback because it was part of my
journey after that was thatpeople have to know about this
(23:04):
and Ibogaine is not the safestpsychedelic in the world.
I mean, you're talking aboutsomething as a one in 400 death
rate when not administeredproperly in a non-medical
environment.
I didn't know, that.
Yeah, yeah.
And it's definitely not meantfor recreational use, even if it
was safe.
Simply because it's, um, man,it'll beat the hell out of you
(23:24):
if you're not going to becooperative with it.
It will beat the hell out ofyou and your ego.
So, um, I remember that there'sthings they've done to make it
medically safe.
You know magnesium sulfateinfusions prior to and during
your infusion, even vitamin Cbeing utilized now, and a lot of
other things done in an ICUtype setting, with trained
physicians that are there tohandle the arrhythmias that can
(23:46):
come from it.
So, anyway, I chose a goodcenter, went there, had a good
success, but I could not believe.
I almost did not know aboutthis.
So two things came to me.
That's that.
Number one I wanted to buildthe resort I've always wanted to
build.
I have a 20-year-old specialneeds son who is center of my
life and we've always hadtrouble traveling with him, so
(24:09):
we're creating the world's firstever resort for special needs
families down in Mexico.
That's super cool.
And number two I wanted to getback to the veterans.
I wanted to figure out why isthis not more profoundly known?
(24:35):
I went to the Vets Conference inSan Diego, a great organization
that I heard Governor RickPerry and Senator Crenshaw speak
at as they passed the torchbetween each other, and these
guys are, as lawmakers, we'rehaving trouble getting traction,
and from the left and the rightyou've got people in politics
backing this.
Why in the hell isn't goinganywhere?
Well, I won't get into thedepths of why, but I think we
all kind of know why.
But I decided that the reallyonly thing we could do here
(24:57):
would be to give more people theexperience that I had, and what
I meant by that was I could usemy money.
I could use my fortune that Ijust made on selling this major
company to a big conglomerate,or I could use it to educate, to
teach.
So on a plane trip home fromthat conference, I looked over
(25:19):
at my wife at the time and Isaid I'm going to create a TV
show.
Just like what I said, I'mgoing to create a TV show that
isn't just me telling my story.
I could get on podcasts, tellmy story to thousands and tens
of thousands, hundreds ofthousands of people and tens of
thousands and hundreds ofthousands of people.
(25:40):
But how much more effectivewould it be to tell the story of
six first responders orveterans from ground zero of
identifying them and start toend in a docu-series where we
don't even know the outcome.
And that's where the magichappened.
So I've never directed,produced or anything before.
But you know what, as a leaderin an organization, you don't
(26:02):
have to be an expert ateverything.
You just got to know the peoplethat are and bring them on the
team.
And I learned that well overthe years and plus I've been
watching TV since I was born, soI'm an expert, right.
Speaker 2 (26:15):
We all know about TV.
Speaker 3 (26:17):
We all know about that right.
I mean I grew we all.
We all know about tv.
We all know about that right.
Speaker 2 (26:21):
I mean I grew up watching marcus wellby, I really
just dated myself right there.
But uh, marcus wellby, I'mwaiting for you to talk about
trapper john md yes, sir bam.
Speaker 3 (26:29):
So I, we put together healing heroes, no mind left
behind, and it is a docuseriesthat season one is complete and
will be launching this year.
Where I originally was justgoing to be a pilot, I uh, when
I got home from my treatmentsteve, I?
Um turned off most electron.
I went to one meeting back atthe company where they had to
(26:52):
change their tattoo policy forme and everything.
They were really sweet.
But I there, I think, for 45minutes, and I looked around the
room with the miserable peoplein that room answering emails
and some of them listening, someof them not, and I stood up
after 45 minutes and I just Iwalked out.
I couldn't be there anymore,could not be there anymore and
(27:16):
never went back.
Anyway, so I started working onthese things, these two
projects, and I had about threeo'clock in the morning I turned
my phone on and when I turned myphone on, there was a Facebook.
I don't know even why I went toFacebook, but I'd been on my
phone in weeks and there wasRyan.
Now, ryan was the son andgrandson of some patients I'd
(27:38):
taken care of for a coupledecades and I watched his
history in the military.
I watched his um, watch thestory unfold as he got hit by an
IED.
Uh, he was actually on the teamthat would detect him.
He was the dog handler.
He just great story.
So he had a traumatic braininjury as well as PTSD when he
left and I'd watch his videosthis video going.
(27:59):
I'm doing great working for mydad now.
Everything's awesome, but youknow how to look through it.
I know how to look through itRight and it's just that I'm
like nah nah, nah and um, he was.
Uh, he was on Facebook live.
It was three o'clock in themorning and he was in full
confession.
That was either he pick up thephone and do a Facebook live
(28:20):
asking for help or he was goingto put the gun back in his mouth
.
And I was viewer one of one.
And at three in the morning Iwatched that thing and I called
him the next day.
Took a little bit to getthrough him.
He thought I was trying to getin touch with his dad, but no,
it was him, told him about whatI'd been through and I told him
he goes, man, I can't affordthat man, I ain't got that kind
(28:41):
of money.
I was like I'll pay for it,brother, I don't care.
And a few days the pilot.
Anyway, long story short, Iwanted somebody to balance him
in the show, somebody, a femaledemographic, somebody, just to
(29:01):
tell the story from perspectiveof.
Well, you and your viewers know,trauma, ptsd is not a diagnosis
of special forces, it's not adiagnosis of combat, it's not a
diagnosis of the military.
It is a diagnosis that you wantto remove the word disorder
from it.
And now you've got anxiety,depression, insomnia.
You've got every symptom thattrauma or stress has led to.
(29:23):
It's just a slightly differentmagnitude.
But we're too busy in Westernmedicine labeling symptoms as a
problem and trying to treat them.
Oh, don't get me started, butanyway.
So I joined up with MissionWithin out of Tijuana and they
fed me some really goodcandidates.
I couldn't say no to any ofthem, steve.
Their stories were justremarkable.
(29:43):
So I took all of them and Ifunded all of season one of
Healing Heroes.
No Mind Left Behind where we gothrough the US, starting in
June of last year, weinterviewed their inner circle,
their families.
We interviewed the people thatknew them from childhood usually
(30:04):
when most of their traumasfirst happened and told a story.
And I ask a question.
I'll give you a littleprecursor to the show for all of
them multiple times.
I'm just like all right, soyou're a kid with your box of
crayons right and you're sittingthere and you're drawing a
landscape.
What's the sky look like inthat landscape when you're a kid
?
What it looked like when youcame back from the military,
what does it look like now?
And in it all?
(30:29):
Most people think that thereason I'm asking the question
is because I'm trying to gaugewhere their mental state is at
that point right, uh, theturmoil, the dark gray skies,
the lightning, the darknessversus blue sky and birds and
clouds and unicorns and stuff.
But no, that wasn't the reasonfor the question and I'll tell
you for it at the end of it.
But, um, basically, I had, umthe privilege of bringing those
(30:53):
six individuals down to Tulum inMexico, to a resort that I took
down for just the show broughthealers in.
But we did a multifacetedapproach.
We had sound healing, we hadmeditation education, we had
watsu, we had Qigong, we had somany different healings that we
(31:13):
brought in to this, in fact, agreat part of the story.
Barney Fritz was a friend and aphysician, a friend of mine in
the military, who came on theshow as some backup another
physician just to back up incase anything happened.
He did everything but themedicine and we went through the
stages of healing that wedesigned just for veterans for
the show and his outcome wasremarkable even without the
medicine.
And we went through the stagesof healing that we designed just
(31:34):
for veterans for the show, andhis outcome was remarkable even
without the medicine.
It was really pretty great.
Everything starts withgratitude, so we could stop you
at some point.
We're going to stop you.
Yeah, because I've been writingnotes.
Speaker 2 (31:47):
For those who go on YouTube you'll see I was writing
notes.
So there's so many things Iwant to say.
One of the biggest mistakesthat I do as I tell people in
therapy is that the biggestmistakes you'll ever do is the
pursuit of happiness.
While it is okay to be happy,being happy all the time is just
not possible, and you got to beable to learn from the sadness,
(32:08):
the anger, the disgust andeverything else.
Not put it down.
I mentioned that.
And talking about medicine, boy, do I have a conversation with
you?
I think that if you ever wantto come back on, I can have an
hour conversation about howpeople misuse medication, and
think I just had thisconversation with someone who's
like yeah, I'm still feeling alittle depressed.
(32:29):
You've been in therapy forthree weeks.
Yeah, you're still going to bedepressed.
I don't work miracles, but Ineed something.
Now I'm like so prozac takessix weeks.
I mean, I don't like I don'tknow what to tell you, so just
want to mention that I alsowrote a, wrote down like oh,
yeah, he hangs out a reallyshitty place in san diego,
mexico.
Sorry man, that's really hard.
I apologize.
(32:49):
The tattoo stuff made me laughbecause I don't have a tattoo,
but I always found it veryinteresting that people judge
because someone has a tattoo.
Who gives a crap?
You have a nose ring andearring, I don't care.
Are you doing the job?
Are you doing what I need to?
I don't care.
After that, we need to get overourselves.
And you talk about the politic,politics of all this.
(33:11):
You know, like for me, you talkabout the left or the right.
No, there's businesses, controlboth and they're the issue.
And yes, I said it on thispodcast.
And if I don't get one sponsorbecause I've said this, I'm okay
with it, because to me, it'sbig business.
Who controls the politics now?
Not politicians, nor do people.
(33:31):
But hey, you're in Mexico, Ican always go back to Canada, so
we're good.
But I want to hear more about,because the other part of the
medicine I wrote down also thesymptoms versus the treatment.
We try to minimize symptoms butwe don't do the treatment.
No, we got to do the treatmentin order to minimize the
symptoms, but people don't wantto do the treatment because it's
(33:53):
hard, because that's how it is.
So now I'm having diarrhea ofthe mouth because I can go on
about all this, but I want tohear more about the docu-series
because, from my perspective, ifsound healing, chameleon salts,
ayahuasca me talking to youworks, I don't care.
(34:14):
I shared this story, so I'mgoing to go on a tangent.
I promise I'll let you talkafter this.
I had a guy when I worked atparole who came in.
He was on his seven or eightDUI it doesn't really matter
which one he's up to and theylook at me like hey, he drank
again.
He's only got about 30 daysleft on it.
We don't want to send him back.
What you're gonna do?
So I sat down with him talking.
He's staring at my desk andhe's like what's that?
(34:35):
I said, oh, it's a littlebuddha.
It was a little wooden buddha.
They're like oh, what is buddha, buddhism about?
So I shared it with him.
He's like can I keep it?
And I said are you gonna staysober?
He's like yeah, it's okay, takeit.
And again, I don't know wherehe is today.
This is years ago.
But for the 30 days that I waswith him and even parole told me
like he's never stayed soberthat long, ever that we know of.
(34:58):
So people like well, did youpush Buddhism?
No, it's a piece of wood reallywhen you think about it.
That's what kept them sober.
I don't care what works, I justdon't care what works.
And I think that when you talkabout doctors who are like you,
who are very much open to thesecreations of what can or cannot
help instead of going you knowwhat an infusion of this that?
(35:20):
No, how about we just fuckingmeet the person where they're at
and talk to them and then gofrom there?
That's when doctorsunfortunately have moved from
because of the decision tree andall that fun stuff.
But, um, anyway, I'm gonna shutup now.
I'm going to let you continuetalking about the docu-series,
unless you have any reactions towhat I just said.
Speaker 3 (35:40):
No, I couldn't agree with you more.
And you know, the art ofmedicine becomes more of the
algorithm of medicine every day,of evidence-based medicine, and
you do this and you do this.
There's something about the artof it that tends to go a little
bit more every year, and Ithink that's why you see such
dissatisfaction amongst healthcare providers these days.
You know that's a whole othershow right there, but yeah, I'll
(36:01):
tell you, I'll tell you moreabout the show.
So you know, we take theseveterans down and for 10 days in
Tulum.
Let me ask you this so in yourdays of providing service and
therapy, in a year's time, Steve, how many days in that year do?
(36:24):
you get one of those.
Yes, moments per client, I'mlucky.
Speaker 2 (36:26):
Yeah, any year period any year period, I probably
have, like I would say, 12 to 14, roughly aha moments, as I call
them.
Like I would say 12 to 14roughly aha moments, as I call
them uh, the eureka moment, andthey that's because it takes
time and you got to break down14 different barriers in order
to get there and the defensemechanism of human beings.
You know, you can go freudianon my ass all you want, but I
(36:48):
think we also develop thesetools to protect ourselves,
including our amygdala.
We can go on about the braintoo, for several hours, but yeah
, that's what I think it is like.
Do I get 12 to 14 a year?
Probably I get a few fuck yousin a good way, not in a bad way
for my clients and I.
People like, oh, you get upsetabout no, it's great when they
say fuck you, that means you gotthem, uh, but otherwise, ahas,
(37:10):
maybe once a month I get a goodhaha moment of like, oh my God,
this is breakthrough.
So that's my experience.
Speaker 3 (37:17):
So I had 10 days consecutive, of the most amazing
10 days of my career, watchingthose six individuals actually
seven if you include Dr Fritz gothrough transformation,
something we created, thatmedicine augmenting and the
healing that happened.
(37:37):
And those six, seven, all eightof us, now nine, 10 that were
on the show are like a familyand that's that loss of
community really is a big partof what we lose in the military.
You know, if you look at thegeneral problem in PTSD, it's
not just what we're exposed toin the military, it's.
It's not just what we'reexposed to in the military, it's
.
It's being thrown into anenvironment where we leave the
(37:58):
military and I call it theunwritten trauma, the unsung
trauma, where you know we're nolonger with people of the same
mentality and the same cultureof camaraderie and we typically
are not doing our same jobsanymore because not quite legal
to do that on the outside darn.
But you know we lose thatpurpose, and that loss of
purpose with loss of communityare two really big hits to
(38:21):
basically setting you up for thelowest of lows of your life,
man, let me tell you.
So what I would tell you isthat at the 10-day mark when we
disbanded, and about a monthafterwards I went back through
and I re-interviewed all thesame people and sometimes a
little bit more to get theirstories.
(38:42):
Probably I can sum it up withMaisie.
Maisie is Keegan's daughter outof the Northwest in Oregon, but
it latches onto me like crazywhen I go.
I'm Uncle Charlie.
Now, right, and just the cutestthing is Keegan and his wife.
Their kids are just amazing.
And she said this one commentwhen we went out to the State
(39:03):
Park and I wasn't allowed tofilm in the State Park, which
was like so disheartening so Iwanted to capture this, which he
captured it later.
She goes thanks for giving memy daddy back and she goes
thanks for giving me my daddyback.
And you get a comment like thatand you know you did good, you
know you did right.
So this show is powerful, it is, uh, telling, it is full of
(39:26):
heart.
But it's really changed in itsfocus as we've been editing it
and getting season one ready.
By the way, the reason that Iasked those participants for the
color of the sky and theirlandscape wasn't necessarily to
gauge where they were.
It was to tell them this at theend of their healing process
that they were in down there.
(39:47):
They were the artist all thetime.
You know they were the artistseach time.
And once people realize thatthey're the, they're the writer,
director and producer of theirown movie of life, understanding
that everything's going to behappy and you're going to learn
a lot more from the hard timesthan you are from the easy times
(40:08):
.
So embrace them and lean intothat wave as it hits you Cool
scene in the show.
I can't wait.
I don't know which episode it'sgoing to be on yet, but we all,
after ice plunges, ran into theocean in Tulum and you know, you
see that first wave hit thefirst few people and it's
knocking on their ass and theystand up.
A couple of people just standthere going I ain't going any
(40:31):
further and a few times and thenyou see, finally I start to
learn to dive through the waves.
And then there's Keegan bodysurfing a wave back in and
you're just like that isn't liferight there, and how you get
through those waves that hit youagain and again.
You know I got a new thing now,rather than asking people, how
(40:54):
are you doing in life?
I guess your head above water.
You know that's the main thing.
It's your head above water.
You know that's a key thing,but anyway the show's
spectacular.
We don't know exactly whereit's going to live yet.
We've got a lot of potential.
We've been looking at a movietheater debut and an option
there.
But we're looking at May 31st,memorial day.
Speaker 2 (41:14):
Oh perfect.
Speaker 3 (41:15):
I know it's short timeframe and we're really up
against the wall on it, but hey,you got to draw a line in the
sand and shoot for it at least.
Speaker 2 (41:24):
Well, in post-production at least, and
that's possible once you're inpost-production just puts a lot
of pressure on everyone else.
No, I know, you know, that'sI'm.
I'm so excited to see thisbecause I think that people
don't see the development oftreatment.
They think it's a one and done.
You know, like what you see onTV or whatever, treatment takes
(41:45):
a long time, and having sixepisodes to see that progress is
perfect and six is much more.
I don't know if you said six,but-.
Speaker 3 (41:54):
Six participants, nine episodes yes, Nine episodes
Nine episodes, I apologize.
Speaker 2 (41:59):
And with the nine episodes it's palpable for
people to listen to nineepisodes.
It's not palpable to listen to23 episodes for progress, but we
all know that it takes thatmuch time, if not more,
sometimes.
Speaker 3 (42:12):
You know Western medicine and you've lived this
does not view mental health asbeing real in a lot of
situations, or it's secondary.
It's something's wrong with youwhen, if you think about it, we
spend so much time in Westernmedicine making this physical
thing that gets our minds aroundas healthy as we can, but we
don't spend much time on themind and preventative type stuff
(42:33):
and things to keep it healthy.
And the purpose of the show wasfor awareness that these
treatments were even available.
But what it evolved intohonestly, steve, was an
awareness that it's okay not tobe okay.
Mental health is real.
55% of Americans, I believe, atsome point in their life will
suffer from a mental healthissue, which means to me you
(42:54):
have a 100% chance eithersuffering from one or having
somebody you love go through one.
So pay attention to thecontents of the show, because
this isn't just about healing.
It's also about preventing andteaching you healthy ways to
deal with the stuff that comesat you in life.
Speaker 2 (43:09):
Absolutely, and I think that you know I go back to
a conversation with what wecall the mental men on my
podcast and we talked aboutisn't most of mental health
issues based on trauma?
And it doesn't have to be a bigT trauma, small T trauma, but
it's our reaction to that stuffas part of it, because I mean, I
(43:31):
would argue that sometimespeople with breathing issues,
neuropathy, other medical issues, is really based on mental
health issues that need to beaddressed in order to heal the
body.
But I think that I just saidsomething that Western medicine
would look at me and go, and Iknow you wouldn't.
Obviously you seem to be onboard with what I'm saying, but
it's the truth.
Speaker 3 (43:52):
Yeah, it is Mind and body.
Mind, body and soul.
I mean there's a lot to it injust three words put on a plaque
.
Right, it's for real.
You know, what's interesting isthat as I've explored more into
this realm of this world, I'vegotten it wasn't just Ibogaine.
I've looked into ayahuasca,psilocybin, and really just
understanding this, because Ifigured if I'm going to make a
(44:14):
show about it, I better be somekind of an expert about it.
But what I find consistent isthis whether you're trying to
explain what's happening from ascientific standpoint, a
mystical standpoint or aspiritual standpoint, a lot of
times it's all the same words,just slightly different word,
(44:34):
but all the same meaning.
And you find so much crossoverbetween the three that you're
just like they're all threewrong, they're all three right
and it doesn't matter.
Just look at the end result.
Come to your own conclusionsonce you see these six go
through, because we're going todo it again season after season
after season Reproducible.
Speaker 2 (44:52):
Exactly after season, reproducible Exactly.
And if you think that solvingone will solve the other two,
you are in the wrong world.
You can be spiritually sound,but it doesn't fix your physical
and your mental.
You got to do all the work andagain getting back to the
pursuit of happiness, I feelslightly open, better because
I'm praying this God or thisbelief system that makes me
(45:15):
fixed.
No, that doesn't.
That means that you have abelief system and now you've got
to work on the other stuff.
You know I see it a lot ondifferent ways, but you know I
want to be respectful of yourtime.
I truly, you know I started aconversation here saying, hey,
maybe it'll be a few episodes.
Charles, from the bottom Ishould say few episodes.
(45:35):
Charles, from the bottom of myheart, you're always invited
back Anytime you want to contactme again to talk about anything
.
I truly felt very connected toyou.
I really thought that we didreally good together.
But as we wrap up, I want toknow what you want to.
Really, we don't have a placeyet for your show, but do you
have other things that you wantto talk about to people find you
(45:56):
and reach you out?
Speaker 3 (45:58):
I'll tell you I'll do one of the best, steve.
The second trailer for the showis about to hit here.
In the next several weeks I'llbring it back to your show for a
debut man.
It's pretty cool.
We're super excited.
We got three and a half millionhits and views in the first I
think four or five days that welaunched it last time, so it's
got a lot of traction.
Wherever this lives, it's goingto be where it has the most
(46:20):
impact and that means if I haveto let it live on YouTube for
the most viewership, it willlive on YouTube on my dollar,
right?
But whatever's meant to happenis going to happen and the right
opportunity is going to show upwhen it's supposed to's just
how it works for me now.
Speaker 2 (46:33):
I can't explain it I think it's because you've seen
what not processing all thatstuff does.
So now, when you become lessselfish and become more selfless
, we all have selfish sides,that's just life.
I think that you realize, like,my podcast is something similar
to that.
Some people like, oh, you don'tmonetize it enough.
(46:55):
Like, is it impacting thepeople it needs to impact?
Yeah, I don't care, I justdon't care, it's not about that.
Yeah, could it be nice to beJoe Rogan, as we joked around
earlier?
Yeah, sure, and I'd be great,but in some ways you got to
compromise who you are whenyou're that big.
I ain't going to compromiseshit about who I am.
Speaker 3 (47:13):
I agree with you on that man.
I agree with you on that.
Speaker 2 (47:16):
So I want to thank you for your time and if you're
saying you're coming back, I'mgoing to say soon to be
returning.
Yes, charlie Powell, thank you.
Thank you Really appreciate it.
Speaker 3 (47:27):
Steve, I look forward to meeting you in person,
face-to-face, at some point too.
Brother, I want to go to mexico.
Bring it, we'll do our.
We'll do your next show downthere.
I got a great setup for youperfect.
Speaker 2 (47:38):
Well, that completes episode 200.
Dr charles powell, I will holdyou to this promise that you
will come back.
I really look forward to havingyou back on.
Uh, you guys, go check all hisstuff out.
They'll be in the show notes.
Can't wait to hear thedocu-series and how it goes.
So that's that.
So I hope you join me for thenext episode with the
(47:59):
developments that we're doingright now, because we're going
to be working with a lot offirst responders and grief and
trauma.
The next episode will be withMichael Sugri.
I hope I had his name right andI hope you join us then.
Speaker 1 (48:14):
Please like, subscribe and follow this
podcast on your favoriteplatform.
A glowing review is alwayshelpful and, as a reminder, this
podcast is for informational,educational and entertainment
purposes only.
If you're struggling with amental health or substance abuse
issue, please reach out to aprofessional counselor for
consultation.
If you are in a mental healthcrisis, call 988 for assistance.
(48:37):
This number is available in theUnited States and Canada.
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