In this episode of Resilience Gone Wild, host Jessica Morgenthal sits down with registered dietician Elisa to unpack the powerful connection between gut health, biodiversity, and resilience. They explore how the gut biome plays a critical role in immunity, mental health, and overall well-being. The conversation covers everything from the benefits of a fiber-rich, plant-forward diet to the dangers of monocrops, processed foods, and environmental toxins. They also highlight how regenerative farming and mindful nutrition choices contribute to a healthier planet and body. With a practical, compassionate lens, Jessica and Elisa guide listeners toward nutritional diversity, emphasizing progress over perfection and the importance of aligning eating habits with personal purpose and values.
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Episode Transcript
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(00:04):
So excited to be here with my very,
very close, beautiful, wonderful friend, Alisa Bramner, who,
has been my hiking buddy and my healthy
conversation buddy for many years. And we've been
working on this for months and months and
months to figure out what we wanna talk
about because there's so many things we talk
about. We came down to gut biome. So
(00:25):
we're gonna talk gut biome,
healthy bacteria,
and the relationship between our own guts and
biodiversity in the world because that metaphor
is so powerful to understand
that our world needs to be not a
monoculture of any sort but to be diverse,
biodiverse.
People need to be biodiverse.
(00:47):
Ecosystems need to be biodiverse. And so does
our own personal
biome in our guts and our whole bodies.
So we're gonna throw out the concept of
clean and and we're gonna go down the
let's get let's mix this all up. So
welcome, Alisa Brownner, registered dietitian.
She has an amazing business that is related
to pineapples, and she's got a pineapple shirt
(01:08):
on. I have my diversity biome shirt sort
of on. And we're gonna talk pineapples. We're
gonna talk so many other things. So, yay,
welcome. Tell us about yourself. Thank you so
much, Jessica.
I'm so excited.
I do love our walks and our talks,
and I learned so much from you. And
we have such great discussion, so I was
really excited to come on your show and
(01:30):
talk about my thing. So anyway, I am
a registered dietitian, as Jessica said, which means
I went through a master's degree in nutrition
education. I did an internship, and I took
an exam to become an registered dietitian, which
is now optionally
been allowed to be also called registered dietitian
nutritionist,
(01:50):
which I actually prefer because I feel like
it's more like real world. Like dietician sounds
like very clinical and nutritionist sounds more like
this is, this is the world we live
in. This is how we're doing it. You
know, we use it every day. Everyone eats
pretty much every day unless you're
doing some kind of fasting regimen.
(02:10):
So No. And and you make the most
important point that, like, this isn't about dieting.
Like, diet has such a negative connotation. Right?
Like, dieting is only about weight when we
think about the word diet and dietitian. Like,
do we need to go to a dietitian
to lose weight? No. The point is we
need to go to a nutritionist
or a dietitian who understands nutrition so that
(02:32):
what we're doing is improving the health of
our body and our resilience. It's not about
our weight. If we lose weight in the
meantime, by eating healthier, that's awesome. Right? Yeah.
And also, like, I wanna go back to
that word of diet because it really means,
like, way of eating from the last. Sure.
So so, like, but you're right. Like, when
we think about diet, we always think about
restriction.
(02:53):
So a lot of my my business model
is about the opposite of restriction, which is
abundant.
Like, when people start thinking about what you
can add, not what you wanna take away.
Coincidentally,
that's kind of the topic of our discussion
today. So I'm excited to dive into that.
Yay. Well, go with that. And and just
as an aside, so Alyssa has this this
very cool business that and a blog, and
(03:15):
anybody can subscribe to it. It's just so
that most very accessible. And the whole idea
is, what can we do to just kick
up our lives and our health just thinking
about adding a little bit of, as you
said, just add a little bit more healthy
stuff. And while you're doing that, maybe you'll
take away a little unhealthy stuff. But just
keep adding the health and joy, and you
(03:35):
will get more resilience and more more immunity,
and you'll be better for you, your relationships,
the planet, all of it because it's all
super positive
energy and activity that is is what we're
talking about here. So
and the gut biome as a Yeah. As
a biodiversity thing, it's like the more complex,
the more interesting, the more diverse, the better.
Okay. Go ahead. Right. You're you're,
(03:57):
I, I just wanted to go back to
the pineapple thing because of what you were
saying.
So, so
it just started haphazardly.
There wasn't any like serious marketing research done
at all, but I just happened to start
wearing this pineapple hat around campus on one
of my jobs, and
people started calling me the pineapple lady. And
then when I started my business, I thought,
(04:18):
you know what? Like, what is a pineapple?
It's a sign of welcome.
So, like, that's always been what I'm about.
Like, there's no judgment. It's not you know,
people hear dietitian. Food police. I'm not the
food police. Like, I'm about
figuring out where you are, like, talking to
you, figuring out where you are, and, like
(04:39):
like you were saying, like, those little things
that you can do that can make all
the difference
in in your health. So and I just
wanna also go
back to what my business actually is because
I've been told that I'm not always clear
on that. Yes. I am a registered dietitian,
and I can do consultation for that, but
my real passion is the practical side. So
(05:00):
I'm like a practical dietitian.
I wanna get in the kitchen with you
and, like, help you learn how to cook
these healthy foods. And for me, it's always
been about adding more vegetables
even before I knew, like, all the research
behind plant based and also how it helps
our health, how it helps the planet, all
those things. Like, I was I always recognize
(05:22):
that the easiest way someone can improve their
health is just by adding more vegetables, and
that's sort of where it is. So if
you're eating meat three times a day, fine.
Let's make one of those meals,
you know, plant predominant. Let's make half the
plate vegetables. Like, not to defer defer to
people complain about what what the government is
(05:43):
telling us, but the good thing about the
My Plate is, like, that's what they're telling
us. Make half your plate vegetables. If we
all did that, we would have see such
an improvement in, like, chronic disease,
like heart disease, the number one killer in
the country, cancer, diabetes,
all these things are, like, debilitating.
So and also we go back to, like,
(06:03):
of course, the big thing is longevity now.
Right? Health span. But it's health span. No.
But I was gonna get to that because,
like, we don't wanna just live a long,
long time and have, like, be on ventilators
in the hospital. Like, we wanna live a
long and vibrant life. So we're looking for
vitality, and that's what you're talking about, the
health span. And that's what choosing the right
(06:24):
foods can do for us. Awesome. So plant
forward is the language, you know, we've you
and I have talked about this ad nauseam
for years. You know, what's the right language
to just make it simple so that you
when you look at your plate, like, ding,
ding, ding, plan for, like, at like, what
have you come up with lately? You know,
if you've got the my plate thing, like,
what's a good metaphor or language? Just a
(06:46):
quick one so that when you when you
talk to people I'm putting you on the
spot. When you talk to people, like, how
do you just make it really simple? What's
the simple language that we can impose upon
people, impress upon people who are listening
to just add to their daily thinking process?
Right. That's a really good point because there's
so much language around the whole, like, plant
(07:06):
pay plant based, vegan,
plant forward, plant predominant.
Like, me being a little bit of a
grammar geek. I've always felt like plant based
means what it sounds like
based on plants. That doesn't mean exclusively
plants. So like, to me, plant based is
not plant exclusive.
The general thinking of it though, like in
(07:27):
the water world, maybe disagrees with me on
that.
So so that's why Yeah. Let's throw that
one out. So that's why I've sort of,
you know, veered towards more, like, plant forward
or plant predominant.
I mean, I love And I guess forward.
Right? Like, forward means it's sort of in
front of me, and it's this is my
you know, so there's a movement to forward.
(07:48):
Right? So it has so much great language
around, you know, pushing the vegetables in front
of you, like, to be more forward and
to push the other stuff away and to
have it front and center. I don't know.
Like, what else is coming up for you
around using that? Right. And, you know, go
back to something you said earlier, which I
think is astute, which is and when you
start adding more stuff,
(08:08):
then other stuff sort of goes away. And
I, you know, I like to say not
like getting rid of that stuff, but like
crowding it out. Right? So you're crowding in
more vegetables.
And and it's not just like a random
thing. Like, the reason we're crowding in more
vegetables
is because they supply so many different nutrients
for us. And the important thing, the fiber,
(08:30):
which which apparently,
like, 10% of us are getting enough fiber.
So so, you know, we're talking all about
protein, protein, protein, protein, and yes, of course,
protein is important. It's like the building blocks
of our, of our body. Right. But the
fiber is the thing that keeps things moving,
moving along.
(08:51):
Like, so it keeps your body Literally. It
moves everything through your the rest of your
body because it needs to process it, like
and and get get it moving. So it's
it's actually getting absorbed through the where it's
supposed to get absorbed. Now without even realizing
it, I got into our topic because what
is the fiber?
It's like the food for our gut microbiome.
(09:12):
So Okay. So let's go down that path.
Yeah. Let's talk a little bit of definition
because we're we are both we're geeks. So
tell us what gut biome is. Tell us
some of the language we need to know,
like bacteria, the probiotic, the biotic part. Like,
I don't even know what the right language
is. So take us down a little bit
of a path of what we need to
know so we can have this conversation. Okay.
So for starters, I'm gonna say we have
(09:34):
more bacteria
in our gut than we actually have human
cells. That's like crazy. Right? That's like and
bacteria are alive. Right? They are literally
living beings
that are
in our bodies. Okay. Let's just recognize. So,
like, we have these micro microorganisms
in our gut. Mainly, they do most of
(09:55):
their best work in our colon, our large
intestine.
So, like, that's where the bulk of them
are. They're they're busy, busy doing their work,
and they're actually controlling a lot of our
body processes.
So it's so interesting that that, you know
and this is kind of, you know, in
the general scheme of thing, this is pretty
recent science. Like, it's not, you know, hundreds
(10:17):
of years old. Like this is, this is
more recent past, I don't know, I think
couple of decades. I'm not sure, but that
they've discovered
how much power these microorganisms
in our gut have over our health, over
our physical health, over our mental health. Like,
there's a lot of other research going on
now between the connection between
our gut and our brain Mhmm. And how
(10:39):
it impacts. So it's interesting because, like, our
brain affects our gut in our food choice.
Right? And then it goes the other way
because our gut is affecting our brain. And,
also, like, on the top of that. Right?
It's either healthy brain or not healthy brain
depending on what you're feeding. Like, you're literally
like, if you think about that language, we're
feeding our brain through what we eat. Like,
(10:59):
some of it is we're feeding it through
the clutter of of shame and guilt and,
like, all this other stuff that's in our
brain. We call that feeding. You know, I
would use the word feeding for that too.
But we are literally, literally
feeding our body and our brain with the
food choices that we make. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
And the other interesting part of it is,
(11:20):
like like you said, like, you have good
bacteria, you have bad bacteria. You know, I
don't wanna shame the bacteria, but, like there
are some that help us and some that
are not so helpful to us.
So ones that the ones that are not
helpful to us, which unfortunately,
a lot of times in this age of
like, let's say it, we're eating 60% of
(11:40):
our diet from ultra processed food right now,
which is insane. Those bacteria,
like, then tell your brain, like, I need
more of this. I need more of this.
And that's where you get a lot of
those, like, cravings for these other foods that
are not so good for you. Like, it's
not strictly in your head. It's not just
because it tastes good. It's because your your
(12:02):
bugs in your gut are literally telling your
brain, like, I need more of that food
that makes me strong. I think this is
so important. So let's, like, go down this
a little bit further because I didn't really
process this, and this is gonna change my
life. Okay? So I'm I'm sure anybody who's
listening, it's gonna have a huge impact. So
the literally,
the choices we make and and let's talk
(12:23):
chemicals at some point also, you know, like
the the other stuff we're putting in with
the pesticides and other chemicals. But anyway, because
that comes to mind. But the choices of
what bacteria we put into our bodies literally
give
being shamed, as you said, shamed and guilt.
Like, they're actually giving instructions of how to
(12:45):
be immune, how to, you know, how to
build immunity, how to think in, you know,
how to be immune, how to, you know,
how to build immunity, how to think in
in, like, deep thoughtful ways, how to sleep
probably. Right? Like, keep going because this is
so cool. Well, I think what I was
more of what I was talking about and
you know me, I wanna get I wanna
get to the positive side.
Yes. Yeah. Right. So,
(13:05):
so the converse of it was you're eating
foods that support
the, the good bugs, the good bugs, the
ones that help you, that ones that do
all those things, help you have a good
night's sleep, help you have the right, you
know, create the right hormones to support your
body, help you to reduce inflammation, all those
(13:25):
things. Right? They create metabolites in our gut,
right, that are helping us. If we eat
the foods that are feeding those,
a lot of times, what happens is, you
know, you'll find now all of a sudden,
those are the the little microorganisms
that are craving more food. So I know
it sounds crazy, but you do start, like,
(13:45):
losing the craving for the junk food and
more
craving those healthy foods because all of a
sudden they're like, yeah, we need we need
more. We need more of that. And too,
like, there's some thinking going on.
And the choice is that what's in our
body is not just is not because we
have all these other microorganisms
living in our body. They're actually making decisions
(14:08):
too, and they're, like, it's not on our
brain. Like, there's this gut brain that we've
got, and it sounds like this part of
this gut brain is actually these other nonhuman
things that are that are overwhelmingly
enormous
that are helping make decisions for us. And
if we wanna make good decisions, we we
have to think about what they're thinking. That's
(14:28):
like crazy. I mean Mind blowing. I don't
know enough about what they're thinking or what
they're doing. Like, I'm not a microbiologist,
but I know I know the, like, ultimate
impact of it. So if we want if
we wanna start changing
and actually, I I wanna go back to,
like, something we just totally glossed over, which
was the reason we started talking about this
(14:50):
topic in the place was the resilience. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. And I said, oh my God,
that's like, oh, we have to talk about
this because
it's gut diversity
is what gives us our resilience, right? So
of all, I just, I don't want to
forget to say this important fact, which is
your gut can change within twenty four hours.
Well, that's what I was gonna ask. Tell
us tell us about timing, like the impact
(15:11):
of yeah, go ahead. Okay. So they did
a study comparing,
you know, a low fiber, high
animal food diet to a extremely high fiber
diet,
and they tested people's gut microbiome and they
found that the diversity
could change, the structure of the microbiome could
change within twenty four hours. Now, like, there's
resilience there. Right? So if you go back
(15:33):
to your old way of eating, it just
goes back. But if you keep doing that
for, like, say, six months, it becomes like
an permanent part of your gut microbiome. It's
like any practice. Like, if you think about
it as a practice, right, that it doesn't
it's not a one time thing where you're
gonna change. You know, like, any new resilience
practice that I talk about, that we learn
(15:54):
about
is a practice that you have to keep
doing it to change your neural networks, your
pathways,
your gut. Like, every everything you do is
a lifetime commitment.
You know, even after six months, if you
go back, your body's gonna go back. Right?
And it's gonna make bad decisions.
So keep this in mind that, like, nutrition,
plan forward all of these choices are not
(16:15):
a, oh, I'll do it when I'm on
vacation or I won't do it. I'm on
vacation. But it's a lifestyle. Like, it's a
choice that you get to make. And that's,
like, the biggest part of this for me.
Right? Like, the building resilience is such an
intentional opportunity.
Like, make the choice
to be healthier, to make changes
long term that might be a little uncomfortable,
(16:37):
a little hard, a little work to build
up. But, like, once it becomes a practice
and it becomes more natural and nature, you've
you've got it. Right? Like, and just you
can just keep doing that instead of doing
what seemed easy before. I find it really
hard to eat ultra processed food now, like,
or food dyes. I look at that food,
(16:57):
and I'm, like, so icked out. That was
so easy to eat not that long ago.
So, like, you can change all of it.
And as you were saying, like, you have
all this great support from your microbiome to,
like, help you make those good decisions. Sorry.
Go ahead. Right. Yeah. So excited. I was
like, wow. This is I I know. I
was I was so interested in what you
were saying that I forgot I was gonna
(17:18):
say. So so we
yeah. So I remember now. What I was
gonna say was, like, what you were saying
that it's hard in the beginning because, like,
you may make the mental shift, like, I
wanna do this and then your gut's screaming,
no way. We liked it the way it
was. Like, we don't want that. So so
(17:39):
like, yeah, you have to recognize that it's
not always easy right away, but like, it
depends what kind of person you are. Like,
for me, I'm like a little bit at
a time kind of person. Some people are
more like all or none. Like, I have
to just dive in and struggle through it
and then I'll be there. Like for me,
and I think for like most of the
people I've worked with, it's
(18:00):
it's more about like making that gradual shift,
adding one thing, but one thing that you
can do consistently.
Right? So it's all about being consistent.
So if you say,
I don't know. I eat you know, some
people I guess the top group of people
are eating, like, most of the meat kind
of. So someone might be eating meat three
times a day. Like, for that person,
(18:23):
I know this is gonna sound backwards, but
there there's a reason I'm gonna say this.
Like, think about not having meat at night,
like, with your dinner. And not, like, going
back to the positive part, like, not not
having meat, but having something else, having beans,
having mushrooms,
having tofu, or something like that Gotcha. Which
(18:44):
I can really yummy. Eats the protein. There
are other sources of protein. I mean, that's
the gist. Right? Like, we there are so
many other healthy Yeah. And the reason I'm
saying dinner is is because even though, like,
that's where most most people would have their
meat if they were only having, like, one
meat meal a day is because that sets
off sort of a cascade of improvement. Because
(19:05):
if you don't eat it at that heavy
meal at dinner, which like the protein is
much harder to digest, if it's coming from
animal foods, then it's harder for you to
sleep because your body's working on that digestion.
Right? So,
so setting up Wait. That's huge. Let's just
honestly, let's just say that again,
that eating meat is a longer process for
(19:26):
your body to digest. And if you're eating
it in the morning, your body is sort
of running around all day and it has
time to digest and it's not, it'll interfere
with other stuff for sure. But, like, sleep,
since I just dropped these episodes about sleep
that were just so important. Right? Like, animals
make such intentional choices about what they eat,
and we don't make the same kinds of
(19:47):
intentional choices about what we eat or we
many people aren't, that at night, if you're
not sleeping well, there is a lot connected
to what you ate for dinner and what
time you ate it and what you're eating
in the evening and all the snacking and
whatever it is. So that's, like, hugely important.
Yeah. I mean, I I would say, obviously,
there's research to support this. The person from
(20:08):
my personal experience, like, that would that was
probably the biggest change I noticed when I
went you know, I'm mostly plant based, I
would say. At home, I eat plant based.
I do eat,
omnivorous
sometimes in other places. But that was the
biggest change I noticed, which was, like, my
sleep was so improved.
Wow. And and, like and also and also,
(20:30):
to get back to the gut, like, the
quality of your sleep impacts the health of
your gut as well. Yeah. With all lights,
one thing affects the other, and now we're
talking about that's like the whole resilient
ecosystem. Right? Everything's working together. So I do
wanna talk about that, but I there's something
on my mind that I just wanna make
sure that we talk about because it's really
important.
Changing habits
(20:51):
and making different decisions is hard. Okay? And
the most impactful way to make a different
decision, really, the only way to make a
different long term decision is by aligning it
with a sense of purpose, to have a
reason
to make the change, not just because of
a some, like, thing that some you know,
some expectations of society or whatever that are
(21:13):
putting pressure on you to make a different
choice. So if you just think I should
add this because
somebody says it's good for me or because
I'll be judged by others from what I'm
eating or something, that's that's not enough to
have a sense of real aligned purpose for
why you're changing your eating habits and why
you care about what's in your gut and
(21:34):
why you care about this diverse microbe. Like,
you have to have an inner sense of
what it's gonna do for you. That each
bite you put in your mouth, picture your
long term future self. Right? Like, your future
self and your lifespan.
Right? And and what we were talking about
before, like, it matters your vitality.
Like, if I eat broccoli or if I
(21:55):
eat tofu or beans versus a
meal of meat, I will be able
to sleep better,
think better, long, long term that my will
hold out better? Like, go go down that
path a little bit, like, the whole connection
with a sense of purpose around what you're
choosing to eat. Yeah. I get I mean,
I guess for me, it started kind of
over COVID when,
(22:17):
I used to work in a lot of
care homes, teaching cooking, healthy cooking to disabled
people. And obviously, there was lockdown, so, like,
I was not going out there anymore. So
I had more time at home. I made
a bunch of videos,
for Arc of Westchester, by the way.
They're on YouTube. If anybody's looking, just look
up Alicia. They're on YouTube. They're, you know,
(22:38):
that was our very early days and, you
know, I don't consider myself a presenter, but
I did the best I could at the
time. But anyway, the the crux of it
was I had a lot more time at
home to cook, to prepare, to explore,
to do research. As a registered dietitian, we
always have to do continuing ed throughout our
career. And I really, like, loved what I
(23:00):
learned about the plant based diet. And in
particular, like, the fact that choosing
plants actually is good for the planet, like
the impact of a plant based diet versus
a meat centric
diet, I'll call it, on, you know,
the use of cropland,
the, you know, carbon farming. I call it,
(23:21):
like, our food print. Right? Our food print
makes a difference. And by the way, you
could Google food print and do your own
food print online. Like, it's company. If you
want, I'll give you that link. Yeah. We'll
put it in the show notes. That is
neat. I gotta do that. It's like a
it's like a three minute quiz. They ask
you a bunch of questions. Yeah. And it's
kinda cool. Yeah. Well, it'll wake us it'll
wake you up. Like, that's the whole idea.
(23:42):
Right? So I was like, you know, I'm
a dietitian. And also, like, I've been eating
kinda healthy, fairly healthy, I'll say most of
my life. And I was like, why aren't
we talking about this? This is like the
universal solution
to everything.
So so and to go back to your
point about how hard it is to make
a change, like, again, I didn't do it
all at once. I didn't suddenly say, that's
(24:02):
it. I'm not doing buying any more meat,
dairy, anything. You know, we just started eating,
you know, adding more plant based meals,
eating meat less often, eating smaller portions, like
making a plate more plant centric. Right? And
eventually, like, literally, it's so funny. It's my
husband who said it. He's like, you know
what? Like, do we really need it? And
(24:23):
I was like, you know what? Probably not.
How great is that that you influence the
people around you with without judging and shoulding,
and instead you're role modeling and teaching
and exploring.
And the people around you start to get
it, and they think about it in their
own way. And they're like, wait a minute.
This makes so much sense. It's not working
(24:43):
for me either. Let's do this together. Right.
And, like, and, like, also, of course, like,
is flavor.
So so it has to it has to
taste good. Right? It has to be not
that complicated because I'm not gonna spend four
hours in the kitchen preparing a meal unless
it's Thanksgiving or Christmas, I guess. But so
so, like, that was sort of there's so
(25:04):
many great resources out there, and I felt
like I could pull together a bunch of
stuff. And I started doing some cooking classes
peep with people, and they Yeah. And they'd
say they would be excited about it because
they'd be like,
wow, I didn't know. Like, I didn't know
it was this easy. I didn't know it
could taste this good. You know, there's a
really important point that you're making that, that
(25:25):
I'm thinking of in that there's a you
know, you said you started slowly. Right? Like,
there was something that just felt like you
needed to move in a certain direction. And
there's also moments of moments of change
that, you know, like a visit to a
factory farm. The moment I recognized that when
I was at Loggerhead, you know, teaching in
the aquariums
for early on, I was like, oh my
(25:47):
god. These fish are individually
sentient.
Like, what the frigging are we doing? Not
respecting
the animal world. Like, that's, you know, that's
where I come from on a part of
what drives me to, like, I look at
meat that I'm about that's around me, and
I'm like, I picture it as the actual
animal in a factory farm or whatever it
is. And the smile on his face, like,
(26:08):
you know, that's that works for me, and
it's changed my life. Like, we all have
these moments. Like, you had this moment where
you're you know, maybe it's somebody who learns
about gut microbe, and they're like, my god.
What am I doing? Like, mixing crap in,
ultra processed crap. I'm just impacting my whole
body and and maybe and that's why I'm
not feeling well. And whatever it is, like,
there could be a moment that changes everything,
(26:30):
or there could just be this commitment to,
like, figure out how to do it better
and how to do it better in community
and to, like, really being on a super
learning track. Anyway, I just think it's really
important to, like, have a sense of what
can move you forward to make better decisions.
Sometimes it's an one moment that really makes
a big impact, and somehow it's just like
this ongoing thinking of, like, we could like,
(26:51):
Ross, her husband. Like, wait a minute. This
all makes sense. Like, why are we doing
this? Let's just make a different decision. Like,
all the little pieces of data. And, like,
the other piece of it, though, which is,
I think, the most important thing is, like,
it's a work it's always a work in
progress.
It's there's always there's always room for, like,
(27:12):
I'm not even gonna say less than perfect.
Nothing is perfect.
Like, we go
we we like, you shouldn't you shouldn't not
do something just because you can't do it
a 100%.
And that's like that's like where I come
from.
Like, it doesn't make sense to for that
person who's eating meat breakfast, lunch, and dinner
to suddenly go cold turkey.
(27:32):
But then they fail and they give up
versus knowing that it's just a step as
you're moving forward. Versus like for for one
person, it might be just, like, adding mushrooms
to the burger mix so that it's, like,
half mushrooms and half meat. That's the whole
point. Yeah. We learn and we grow. Like,
and research gets better and we get more
access to research and research gets more honest.
(27:53):
Like, you know, the change in, as you
said, we've only been understanding more about this
in the last couple of decades. That was
access to the Internet and the information that's
out there, not just that the research was
being done. Part of it might have been,
you know, a a big growth in research,
but it was access
to the conversations and to to the the
raw research so that we could make decisions
(28:15):
on our own instead of being told by
the
the lobbying powers that we should be eating
milk, drinking milk, and we should be eating
beef. You know, I, yeah, I do wanna
talk about the research for a though because
Yeah. Because
pretty much as we know now from the
Internet, anyone can find a research study to
support their opinion. Right? So when when our
(28:35):
decisions become
emotional
versus data driven, that's a different story.
Like one research study does not make a,
health recommendation,
shall I say. Right? We have decades of
research supporting the idea that eating a diet
predominant in fruits and vegetables,
whole grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds is good
(28:59):
for our health, right? For longevity,
for cardiac health, for preventing diabetes,
even for preventing certain types of cancer. And
that's like thousands of research studies probably. Someone
might come up with a research study tomorrow
that says, like,
eating the carnivore diet is good for,
I don't know, acne or something like that.
(29:21):
I don't know. I'm just making You never
know. Right? Yeah. But but
but like, that doesn't mean, like, we throw
out
fifty years of research. It means that, okay,
this is interesting. Let's dive into that more.
It doesn't become like a,
a fact
until like it can be repeated. It can
be, you know, it can be it's done
(29:42):
with a lot of large population of people.
It's done over time. It's shown like long
term consequences.
Absolutely. Great, great, great input. Thank you. Let's
make you know, the the basic knowledge that's
out there
has grown. And, clearly, it's all about moving
towards plant forward, and and we need to
(30:02):
talk more about the diversity of our gut
bio biome. And, like, if you find one
something on social media that somebody says is
the way you should be living and it
doesn't make sense, but it feels easier, that
is something you should process. Right? Like, am
I doing this for the right reasons, or
am I doing this just to
make life easier? Like, and what are your
(30:23):
priorities?
Yeah. I mean and I I do wanna
go back to what you just said about
the diversity in the gut microbiome because that
was the main crux of our talk. By
the way, you can see why Alisa and
I have these long conversations because we're always
like, oh my god. That's so interesting. Let's
go down that path. And, oh my god.
You just said this. Let me okay. Let's
talk diversity and how we how we all
yeah. We came to this conversation.
(30:45):
As as you did sort of allude to
at the beginning, the food choices we make
in terms of diversity
helps us become more resilient. So if you
think about, like, a farmland. Right? We know
that monocrops are not healthy for the planet
because, like, it's like they don't have the
right combination of Wait. Just because not everybody
knows what monocrops are. You and I are,
(31:05):
like, obsessed with it. But tell tell us
about monocrops. Tell us about the biggest little
farm, yours and my favorite film in the
whole world. Go down that path and, like,
explain a little because it really matters where
our food is coming from, the journey that
and to, like, connect back to the sources
of our food, very, you know, indigenous thinking
that is
(31:25):
bringing back you know, coming back into a
lot of the work, you know, that's being
done. Go down that path. Tell us. The
Biggest Little Farm did change my life a
a bit as well. So, like, to go
back to the thing about the plant based,
like, I read the China study when it
came out. That was like
a a long time ago, which is the
original book that, you know, showed all the
(31:46):
research about how this plant forward diet is,
I'm not gonna say the best diet because,
of course, nutrition is very individual, but, like,
on a population
level is, you know, the healthiest diet for
us. I knew all that. And for the
planet.
Right. That at that time, we weren't talking
about that. That came later with the plan
the Lancet Lancet Commission and the the planetary
(32:09):
health diet, which is also very interesting.
I would recommend you look into it, but
I'm not gonna go into that right now.
But then I watched the big little farm
and the story is like these people get
to a farm, they buy, buy land, which
is basically dirt. It's like hard dirt. You
can't even dig a shovel into the dirt.
Right? It's like nothing. There is no life
(32:29):
on this place.
And through six years, I think of trials
and tribulations, they convert this into like a
thriving ecosystem.
So at the end, you know, the soil
is good. They're sledding at all the neighbor
farms, which are monocrops,
like one thing growing. Right? Their farm was
fine because the soil was so healthy that
(32:50):
it was soaking up the water and protecting
everything. There were so many interesting things in
that because
they found, like,
they had snails in their orchard or something.
And then Yep. They realized that they could
let the ducks roam free and the ducks
would go in the orchard and eat all
the snails. And like, like, everything worked together.
The reason I love that is because I
(33:10):
feel like our gut is sort of like
an analogy for that. Mhmm. Right? Everything's working
together. And you mentioned,
like, probiotics, which are a big thing, you
know, a couple of years ago. Now I
think they're fading a little bit. Now we're,
I don't know. But but, like, the problem
with some of those is, like, a probiotic
is, like, they they catch a specific train
(33:32):
strain of bacteria
that they know is, like, been proven to
be healthy. It has to be, like, scientifically
determined, blah blah blah.
And then there's a piece of it that's
missing
because when we eat actual
live probiotics
in food,
there's there's way more than that. Like those
three strains or whatever. It's like mono it's
(33:53):
monopharma versus
regenerative diverse farm biodiverse farming. Right. So, like,
yes, there is a place for pro probiotics
for some people. Absolutely. But, like, the line
of defense is always gonna be like, get
it from food. So what are probiotic foods?
You inspired me because we were talking about
it and I've kind of gone off the
pro
(34:14):
the the fermented food train for a little
while. So I actually bought more sauerkraut yesterday
at the supermarket.
Okay. I just want everybody to know there's
an upcoming episode about fermentation
and related to winemaking with this amazing woman,
Marta Mendonca. So we're starting fermentation now, and
we're gonna keep going. So because it's really
important.
Okay. So those are those are, so that's
(34:36):
one thing that's good for your gut health.
Then the piece, which I should have probably
said but is the prebiotics,
like the prebiotics,
probiotics,
and then postbiotics,
which are like the metabolites
of these bacteria in our gut doing their,
doing their fancy dance. Right. Whatever. So the
prebiotics
are mainly the fruits and vegetables,
(34:56):
the whole grains, those things that we were
talking about before. Legumes. Legumes are huge. And
like, not to say if there were a
superfood,
I think it would be beans and lentils
because they're just so magical, like protein packed,
fiber packed. And like what we were saying,
like all those extra phytonutrients
that you wouldn't find if you just tried
(35:17):
to make, like, take out, take out the
fiber, like, put it in a fiber supplement
or something.
So,
yeah, I love beans. But, of course, we
know there's no one superfood. We need diversity.
And that that's really to come back to,
like, what we were talking about. Diversity
always leads to resilience.
So like on the farm,
diversity, the diversity in the way they structured
(35:39):
the farm and having lots of, they had
like an orchard and vegetables growing and the
animal farm and everything working together, they had
resilience when there was flooding. So same thing,
like, in our gut. When we have that
whole, like, I guess, farm of different microorganisms,
they work together
to, like, defend us against
(35:59):
things that we don't necessarily want going on
down there. And to help us to in
a positive sense, to help us be able
to do the stuff we want to, like
to pass the food through effectively and to
not feel sick from our food. And I
have learned
that
eating
up to 30 different plants per week is
kind of a great goal for our health,
(36:21):
like, has has been supported in the research
to help to improve our health and longevity
and all that. So
I haven't done it in a while, and
now you're gonna inspire me to do it
again. I remember the charts when you had
given them to me. I'm like, okay. How
many and, like, herbs, different herbs count. So
if you have pizza and it has oregano
on it. Like, that counts. But it's such
a light up kind of thing to think,
(36:42):
oh my god. I've got these 30 different
things that are in my life, and I
didn't even realize it And that they're all
good for me. Right. So like what I
was saying before about beans being soup a
super food. Mhmm. Yes. But I'm not gonna
eat, like, even though chickpea is my favorite,
I'll admit that. Mhmm. I'm not gonna eat,
you know, chickpeas every day. That's not making
my gut healthy. My my gut is becoming
(37:02):
healthy by eating,
you know, chickpeas
and black beans and lentils
and broccoli and onions and mushrooms and, like
and you'd be surprised how quickly it adds
up.
You know, maybe you only like that you
I work with a lot of kids,
from urban areas who, you know, maybe have
not had a lot of exposure
(37:24):
to a variety of variety of foods. Right?
And they they have a hard time latching
on to that, like, having a new food.
So I'm excited, like, if they add a
new vegetable. Like, okay, the only vegetable I
eat is broccoli and it has to be
covered with cheese. Right? So now so now
our goal is, like, try one new vegetable
a week. Everything tastes good covered in cheese
(37:45):
and salt. So, like, try a new one.
What's the date? Or deep fried. Right? Exactly.
I'm not recommending that. But but anything that
gets you out of your comfort zone. For
example, a few years ago, I went to
an event at the Jacob Burns Center, which
was a film about bugs. I don't know.
I told you about this. So after it,
they had a reception where you could eat
bugs. I did it because, like, you have
(38:07):
to you have to walk out. Yep. I
did it recently too. Same thing. Yep. It's
you gotta walk the talk. I didn't love
it, but I tried it. So, like, that's
the point. You can try things. And also,
again, you may try it this week and
you don't like it. You might try it
again in a year. Don't be shy about
trying it again because our taste buds change,
and it also has to do with how
(38:28):
our microbe microbiome
Yeah. 30% of the time. If we're if
we're moving towards changing what we eat, just
because we didn't like something when we started
that process,
certainly doesn't mean that
now we won't be excited to include something
there. Like, it's a it's a really practical
point. Right. And, like, on the Converse side,
a lot of we, you know, we only
(38:50):
touched on the ultra processed food thing. If
when we're eating ultra processed foods, a lot
of them, like, they may you may go
to the supermarket and, like, now there's, I
don't know, 40,000 different foods in the supermarket
or something like that, which is so interesting
because,
you know, like, a few decades ago,
it was, like, maybe 800 or something like
(39:10):
that. So I just I just think, like,
you look there and it looks like there's
so much variety. Like, I can go to
the yogurt aisle and I had a hard
time, like, choosing there's, like, 800 kinds of
yogurt alone. But if you go in the
middle, like forget about it, there's 400 different
types of cookie, but guess what? Like, they're
all made out of the same stuff. So
(39:31):
even though it looks like variety, it's not
variety.
It's the same thing. So which is why
I think
ultra processed food has such a negative impact
on our health because we're losing the diversity.
And I don't realize it. And we don't
realize it.
Like, lucky charms have has all these different
color the pretend
color. And you could think, oh, my cereal
(39:53):
is totally diverse. Right? I've got red things
and green things and blue things. And you're
like, oh my god. It's actually you stop
to read the the, nutrition thing. They're all
the same. They just have different food dyes
in them. Like, it's one ultra processed food.
So, like, that's such a huge practical tip
that's so helpful. Like, look at the ingredients
(40:13):
on the foods the ultra processed foods you're
eating, and there's the same, I don't know,
what is it, five or 10 ingredients that
are gonna be across your cereals and your
your Cheetos and your, I don't know, whatever.
And go around the outside circle of your
supermarket,
and you've got thousands of whole individual foods
that are not on that ingredient list. Right.
(40:33):
And and I always teach, like, eat the
rainbow because
a lot of times, like, colors are a
symbol of or a representation
of the diversity of nutrients in a food.
Right? And that makes sense. But when I'm
with the kids, like and I say eat
the rainbow, and they're like, taste the rainbow,
Skittles. Yeah. And I'm like, no. I always
have to say, no. Not Skittles. Not taste
(40:54):
the rainbow. Eat the rainbow. We're talking about
fruits and vegetables.
Right? They eat the natural rainbow. Yeah. It's
actually a cool thing. Like, if you make
your plate up, like, if you they in
terms of, like, what we can remember to
process,
that'll remind us really easily of how to
do this and why it matters. Like, look
at your plate. Right? Like, I remember for
years, my son was just so he had
(41:15):
all these allergies, and he was his food
plate was so white, white and yellowish. Right?
And Beige. And I Beige. Beige. And I
literally would like, if I had to come
up for something to take away as some
sort of weird punishment, I would take away
one of those white foods like cheese. It's,
like, still a part of our history of
how do you parent well, like, with it.
It's like you add a color instead of
(41:38):
another white item or white or yellow or
beige item on your plate, it can only
be good for you as long as it's
not created by food dyes and it's actually
created naturally. Like, look at your plate. Does
your plate look right? Like, it's not just
a diversity thing, but diversity is so simple
if you think about it by color. Right.
Right. Even a different color
like, it's not one color green. Look at
your background. Yeah. That forces you to be,
(42:00):
like, more mindful about what you're eating and
really pay attention to what you're eating. Right?
And enjoy it. Like, you can eat it
with your eyes for before you even eat
it with your mouth. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
I love that.
Okay. So a few more practical trip tips.
Last word of wisdom, and then thank you
for changing our changing us, changing our mindsets.
Okay. Couple give me give us some more
(42:21):
practical tips. Practical tips. If there's any left,
like, we talked about a lot. There's
well, like, the the practical
tip, I think, is,
I guess, going back to my superfood. Like,
the best place to start for me is
beans because beans add so much. Now, if
you're not used to eating a lot of
fiber, the most practical tip I can give
you is take it slow. Take it slow
(42:43):
a little bit. Right? Right. Because then you're
gonna hate it. Easy. You're gonna be like,
I'm not eating beans. Beans may be eating
beans. I'm not even talking about that. Right.
You might have bloating. You might have other
problems. Right? So you wanna you wanna
take it easy. What the point we were
just saying about eat the rainbow,
thinking about the color on your plate, thinking
about the diversity on your plate. Again, like
(43:04):
we as consumers
have a tremendous amount of power over what
gets grown and sold to us. Right? So
if we create that demand of a diversity
of foods and by the way, according to
the USDA,
like vegetables and fruits are considered like specialty
crops,
which means they don't get all the same
subsidies
(43:24):
as the commodity crops, like, you know, corn,
grain, wheat, soy soy. Most of the soy
is grown for animal feed. Right?
So us creating that demand, like right now,
we don't grow enough of those vegetables
for everyone to follow the USDA MyPlate guide.
We don't grow enough. So that tells you
(43:45):
we're not eating enough. Right? Obviously, we're importing
some, but like our food system doesn't match
what's good for our health.
And, like, for me, I think that's the
biggest goal is that we want ultimately to
have a food system that supports our health.
Policy wise, which at the center of it.
Right?
Because Yeah. And And we can influence policy.
(44:06):
We can do our part by,
you know, I say, take climate action with
your fork. Right? So so it's one of
those things, like, a lot of the climate
action stuff is, like, about restriction or doing
without, or it feels like austerity
or whatever.
But like in terms of food, it's the
opposite. It's like abundance. You're creating abundance. You're
(44:27):
taking that beige plate and turning it into
a beautiful colorful plate with, you know, different
textures and flavors. And think about, like, all
the amazing herbs and spices that make
food so good. Right? But all those things
Right. So, you know, I think it's an
expansion or restriction.
Yeah. I mean, I would say one more
thing, you know, that is so that I
(44:48):
think of a lot that, yeah, that you
certainly helped helped me learn. You know, each
individual
food is such a beautiful food in itself.
So, like, these mixing things together so that
you don't recognize them. But this isn't anything
new, like, eating whole food. And on your
plate, thinking about
if you can actually identify
each individual food, and, you know, separate from
(45:09):
the herbs and spices that are part of
it. But if you can, if you see
if you see your lentils and you see
your broccoli and you see your
chicken or whatever it is that you that
is on your plate, if each one is
shining at you with its own identity,
each one then you can be sure has
all the stuff that the good stuff that
comes with it. But if you're eating things
that are all mixed together so you don't
(45:29):
even know what you're eating because it's ultra
processed and processed and whatever, like, you don't
have any idea what you're getting. I love
I love how you just put that. Cool.
Because it's true. Like, the processed food,
like, they may process it and take stuff
out and then put stuff back in. Yeah.
Like, now it's enriched or fortified or whatever,
but you're you're losing something along the way
(45:50):
in the processing.
So our bodies are designed
to process the food. So You know, that's
huge. Like We have to make it work
that way. Processing it for us. We actually
benefit
from doing the processing ourselves. Like, just picture
how the food moves through your body. Like,
you don't need that starter point where they've
already done all that fermentation and chile or
whatever. And and, like, we're built for that,
(46:12):
and we need to use it or else
we'll lose it. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Wow.
I love that. Okay. I have I have
another question. I know we're going long. But
can you talk for a moment about, like,
chemicals and pesticides and organics? Like, you know,
we've talked about the way food is made,
but what about what's the impact on our
bodies from all that other stuff that we're
bringing in relative I mean, there's this could
(46:33):
go on conversation could be many hours, but,
like, relative
related to our gut microbe. Okay. Alright. So,
I mean, I'm glad you brought that up.
This is not really a
a special research topic of mine. So I
don't you know, I can't speak
to that as much as I can say.
I don't like to get caught up in
that because at the end of the day,
(46:55):
our health is based on a bigger picture.
Like, yes, of course, I'd love to see
a world where we're not using all kinds
of chemical fertilizers and inputs in our food
system. But all the research supporting
plant predominance,
eating more fruits and vegetables
is based on all food,
conventional.
(47:16):
So these are the same things that have
been grown in the same way for, you
know,
decades. Right? It's still beneficial.
But like better to eat broccoli
than say I'm not eating it because I
don't have organic broccoli. You're still just you're
better off eating the food than avoiding foods
that aren't deemed organic. Right. That's a huge
(47:36):
point.
I feel like there's a lot of fear
mongering.
Right? And at the end of the day,
like, I'd rather you take that conventional apple
and wash it and eat it than not
have it because you're scared that it might
be tainted with pesticides. Or that you can't
and you can't afford it. So you'll leave
the the cheap food and and that'll become
secondary. Like, what I'm eating. A whole other
(47:58):
podcast, Jessica. I know. I know. We'll we'll
get you back. We'll get you back.
Coming back.
Okay. But the the main practical point is
and I remember my pediatrician saying this to
me many years ago with my kids when
they were little. He's like, just get them
to eat the foods. The secondary
is how it is how they were processed.
And at the time, there wasn't as much
organic anyway. But, like, just get them to
(48:20):
eat it, and then it'll become part of
their lives, and it'll help them. Right. Obviously,
we both dream of a food system where
everyone has access to affordable,
healthy, untainted food, but we're not quite there
yet. And we can all be healthier by
including more plants in our diet. One more
practical tip that I'm offering up,
and to for you to follow-up on is,
(48:42):
you need to take a food like a
healthy food like coffee or a smoothie that
has all the healthy ingredients, and then you
add all this crap to it. And the
question is, how do you move forward a
bit so that you're keeping these whole healthy
foods
actually
good for you? But what I'm glad you
brought up smoothies because as we figured out
before okay. June 21 is coming up. National
(49:04):
Smoothie Day. Smoothies are an awesome way to
add diversity
to your diet
because and especially like you have if you
you I'm not gonna say just kids because
there are I know plenty of adults that
don't eat enough don't eat vegetables at all,
but but you can put vegetables in a
smoothie. I make a carrot cake smoothie. It's
amazing.
(49:24):
Like, every kid I've ever gave in given
it to loves it. There's a lot of
sugar in carrots. You can put spinach in
smoothies. It has fruit in it also. Like,
I do a combination. Mhmm. But the whole
idea is, like, when you put it in
a smoothie, like, of all, spinach has zero
flavor when you put it in a smoothie.
It just blends in with whatever else it
gets mixed with. Right? If you add bananas
(49:45):
to any smoothie, like, the banana is overpowering
and it makes it so creamy. If you
freeze them, It's a good way to prevent
food waste. Your bananas go brown.
Mhmm. Peel them, chop them, put them in
the freezer. But back to the smoothie thing.
Like, also in the smoothie, you can add
other things. Like, I whenever I make a
smoothie, I'll add, like, a tablespoon of ground
flaxseed. I'll add some wild blueberries. I might
(50:07):
add some spinach. So you can add you
could you could have a smoothie with, like,
five or six different plants in it. You're
already, like, a quarter of the way. Of
the whole of the way? Yeah. I just
need them out. You're a of the way
towards your 30 plants a week. Right? Just
in one cup.
Again, remember,
like, portions,
if you're if you're watching if you're thinking
(50:27):
about weight control,
of course, you have to think about the
fact that it's much easier to drink food
than to eat food so you could get
into trouble there. But if you're paying attention
to the portions, it's good. And if you're
just trying to get, like, nutrition and calories
in, it's it's an awesome way to do
that. But like you say, like, you don't
need to add the sweeteners, the sugars, the
(50:48):
honey, the whatever, maple syrup.
Sometimes if I really am, like, craving something
a little sweet, I'll use I'll throw a
date in there. Like, it's basically like solid
sugar, but, you know, you get other nutrients.
You're getting all the phytonutrients. You're getting the
fiber, whatever. Wait. I have a question. So
many people add protein powder, which goes back
to that, like, processed narrow
(51:10):
offering
of additional, you know, supplement And again, like,
thoughts on protein powder? Needs must. Like like,
I have used protein powder on occasion,
but I will tell you, like, a secret
that I learned not too long ago. You
can actually add beans to a smoothie, and
it makes it creamy, and you're getting protein
and fiber, and you're not getting all the
(51:30):
other garbage. I would say in terms of
protein powder, I would be careful. Look at
the ingredients. Like, it always goes back to
look at the ingredients. See if you're putting
it if it has ingredients that you really
wanna put in your body, then, you know,
go for it. I always found the protein
powders the flavored protein powders to be very
sweet. So even when I did use them,
(51:52):
I would use, like, half the amount. And
then I would because by the way, all
other plants contain protein also. So if you're
bulking it up with, you know, flaxseed and
beans and and spinach and all that, like,
it's still gonna have more protein than just
a scoop of protein powder with some water.
Okay. So that's, like, such an important lesson.
And one of the things I've looked up
(52:13):
over in recent years is just, like, literally
Google
protein in plants, and you'll be mind blown.
Like, it feels like we don't get that
education that where I was thinking vitamins
from plants. But, like, plants have and and
whole grains
have a tremendous
amount of protein as like, not needing the
enrichment of adding the artificial or the process.
(52:36):
Like, it's Right.
Yeah. Like like, obviously, they have a lot
of volume because it's fiber and water. But
proportional to their calories,
they have a tremendous amount of protein.
So if you're thinking about keeping your blood
sugar stable,
weight loss, any of those kind of, obviously,
heart disease, like the saturated fats in animal
(52:58):
foods are not gonna be very good for
you. And if you're thinking about getting a
lot of your protein from plants, like, it's
a great idea.
But again, like, you probably couldn't eat the
volume of broccoli
that you would need to get protein. So
that's where you have to start being more
mindful about, like, going for those those more
protein dense sources. You can also add soy
(53:19):
milk. Right, or almond milk or something to
your smoothie instead of water or instead of
right?
The soy milk from Trader Joe's has just
two ingredients,
like soybeans and water. Yeah. Like almonds. Almonds
just yeah. I mean, you know, we can
go down a whole another podcast
label. Right of, like, what what goes into
making these milks, and we're we're gonna step
(53:40):
aside from that now because there's nothing there's
no such thing as perfect. We started out
the podcast saying that. Right? So let's wrap
up this amazing conversation
with exactly that. Like, go to because this
is I know this is a big mantra
of yours. Like, we're not looking for what
some conceptually
call perfect. Right? Like, where give us your
last words of wisdom around this whole
(54:01):
we're not going for perfect. What are we
going for? We're going for prac you know,
obviously, practice, not perfection.
Right? We're working towards it. And then, like,
just going back to the whole topic of
resilience.
Like, the whole fact that we're using a
variety of foods,
that we're protecting our gut, that we're, you
know, there's other lifestyle habits, physical activity, getting
(54:24):
good sleep, stress reduction, all those things, by
the way, also impact your gut.
The fact that you're doing all these things
means that we are resilient.
So, like, if we don't do something, you
know, quote, unquote perfectly,
it's fine. It's not a big deal. It
doesn't undo the whole thing. Learn from it
or and learn from it. Like, learn from
(54:45):
a choice you made that you're not really
sure was the right choice to make. And
instead of shaming yourself and guilting yourself, this
was episode one of this podcast. It wasn't
a mistake. It was the best you could
do in the moment
and
learn from it. Learn, like, why did I
eat that bag of chips? Because I was
so tired that I couldn't really and I
didn't have anything else accessible in my house
(55:05):
to go for. And that's what was the
easiest thing to grab at, or that was
the most colorful thing to buy at the
supermarket that was facing me on the checkout
aisle. And I couldn't help myself because I
was tired and I was hungry. Like, make
intel you know, in really intentional and mindful
decisions
from when you learn from things that you
feel like weren't quite perfect. Right. And also,
I wanna add to that. Sometimes we can
(55:27):
intentionally
do, quote, unquote, the wrong thing. Right? Yeah.
Food is like, for me, food is enjoyment.
Maybe not for everyone, but for me, food
is No. That or we're that's what we're
too late for. If I wanna have a
I wanna have a piece of cake, I'm
gonna have that piece of cake, and I'm
gonna enjoy it. Like, I'm gonna be mindful
about it. I'm gonna recognize,
(55:47):
like, this is and I don't know if
it's still in the guidelines, actually. I'm thinking
about it. But, like, in previous dietary guidelines,
like, when we had the pyramid, they always
said had a category called discretionary
calories,
which was like 10% discretionary calories. Right? Which
was a nod to this whole idea of,
like, resilience. Like, we can do, some people
(56:08):
say, eighty twenty. Right? Choose choose mostly
you know, make mostly those good choices, and
then enjoy the rest. Like, don't feel shame
about it. Enjoy it. Use it. Like, take
advantage. Fine. Like, life gets in the way,
or you may wanna enjoy it. Like, it's
your birthday. You wanna have a piece of
cake. Not a big deal. Love it. So
I think it's to remember to be intentional
(56:30):
about enjoying the things
that we might consider
not perfect.
Yeah. Sometimes we just Perfectly imperfect.
Go wild. Sometimes we just Wild. Really should
be going wild. Anyway, thank you so much.
We could we'll have Alisa back for another
many more long conversations over in the coming
years because I just get lit up every
(56:50):
time I talk to her. And hopefully, you
did, too. We love talking to you, too.
And Hey. And, we're gonna go out for
a hike soon. So we'll continue this. And
thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You know
what? Words of wisdom, like, you don't need
to be perfect. Take the mindful, intentional, positive
steps forward and just make life a little
bit better every day for your health, for
your joy,
(57:11):
for your community,
for your planet. So thank you. Awesome. Alright.
Thanks, Jessica.
This has been a production of BLI Studios
produced by me, Kai. Follow along with our
(57:33):
other BLI produced shows at balancinglife'sissues.com/podcast-bli.
Got an idea for the show? Email me,
Kai, @balancinglife'sissues.com.
And don't forget to stay in touch with
your host, Jessica, at jessica@winwinwinmindset.com.
Anything else to add, Miles?
So excited to be here with my very,
very close, beautiful, wonderful friend, Alisa Bramner, who,
has been my hiking buddy and my healthy
conversation buddy for many years. And we've been
working on this for months and months and
months to figure out what we wanna talk
about because there's so many things we talk
about. We came down to gut biome. So
(00:25):
we're gonna talk gut biome,
healthy bacteria,
and the relationship between our own guts and
biodiversity in the world because that metaphor
is so powerful to understand
that our world needs to be not a
monoculture of any sort but to be diverse,
biodiverse.
People need to be biodiverse.
(00:47):
Ecosystems need to be biodiverse. And so does
our own personal
biome in our guts and our whole bodies.
So we're gonna throw out the concept of
clean and and we're gonna go down the
let's get let's mix this all up. So
welcome, Alisa Brownner, registered dietitian.
She has an amazing business that is related
to pineapples, and she's got a pineapple shirt
(01:08):
on. I have my diversity biome shirt sort
of on. And we're gonna talk pineapples. We're
gonna talk so many other things. So, yay,
welcome. Tell us about yourself. Thank you so
much, Jessica.
I'm so excited.
I do love our walks and our talks,
and I learned so much from you. And
we have such great discussion, so I was
really excited to come on your show and
(01:30):
talk about my thing. So anyway, I am
a registered dietitian, as Jessica said, which means
I went through a master's degree in nutrition
education. I did an internship, and I took
an exam to become an registered dietitian, which
is now optionally
been allowed to be also called registered dietitian
nutritionist,
(01:50):
which I actually prefer because I feel like
it's more like real world. Like dietician sounds
like very clinical and nutritionist sounds more like
this is, this is the world we live
in. This is how we're doing it. You
know, we use it every day. Everyone eats
pretty much every day unless you're
doing some kind of fasting regimen.
(02:10):
So No. And and you make the most
important point that, like, this isn't about dieting.
Like, diet has such a negative connotation. Right?
Like, dieting is only about weight when we
think about the word diet and dietitian. Like,
do we need to go to a dietitian
to lose weight? No. The point is we
need to go to a nutritionist
or a dietitian who understands nutrition so that
(02:32):
what we're doing is improving the health of
our body and our resilience. It's not about
our weight. If we lose weight in the
meantime, by eating healthier, that's awesome. Right? Yeah.
And also, like, I wanna go back to
that word of diet because it really means,
like, way of eating from the last. Sure.
So so, like, but you're right. Like, when
we think about diet, we always think about
restriction.
(02:53):
So a lot of my my business model
is about the opposite of restriction, which is
abundant.
Like, when people start thinking about what you
can add, not what you wanna take away.
Coincidentally,
that's kind of the topic of our discussion
today. So I'm excited to dive into that.
Yay. Well, go with that. And and just
as an aside, so Alyssa has this this
very cool business that and a blog, and
(03:15):
anybody can subscribe to it. It's just so
that most very accessible. And the whole idea
is, what can we do to just kick
up our lives and our health just thinking
about adding a little bit of, as you
said, just add a little bit more healthy
stuff. And while you're doing that, maybe you'll
take away a little unhealthy stuff. But just
keep adding the health and joy, and you
(03:35):
will get more resilience and more more immunity,
and you'll be better for you, your relationships,
the planet, all of it because it's all
super positive
energy and activity that is is what we're
talking about here. So
and the gut biome as a Yeah. As
a biodiversity thing, it's like the more complex,
the more interesting, the more diverse, the better.
Okay. Go ahead. Right. You're you're,
(03:57):
I, I just wanted to go back to
the pineapple thing because of what you were
saying.
So, so
it just started haphazardly.
There wasn't any like serious marketing research done
at all, but I just happened to start
wearing this pineapple hat around campus on one
of my jobs, and
people started calling me the pineapple lady. And
then when I started my business, I thought,
(04:18):
you know what? Like, what is a pineapple?
It's a sign of welcome.
So, like, that's always been what I'm about.
Like, there's no judgment. It's not you know,
people hear dietitian. Food police. I'm not the
food police. Like, I'm about
figuring out where you are, like, talking to
you, figuring out where you are, and, like
(04:39):
like you were saying, like, those little things
that you can do that can make all
the difference
in in your health. So and I just
wanna also go
back to what my business actually is because
I've been told that I'm not always clear
on that. Yes. I am a registered dietitian,
and I can do consultation for that, but
my real passion is the practical side. So
(05:00):
I'm like a practical dietitian.
I wanna get in the kitchen with you
and, like, help you learn how to cook
these healthy foods. And for me, it's always
been about adding more vegetables
even before I knew, like, all the research
behind plant based and also how it helps
our health, how it helps the planet, all
those things. Like, I was I always recognize
(05:22):
that the easiest way someone can improve their
health is just by adding more vegetables, and
that's sort of where it is. So if
you're eating meat three times a day, fine.
Let's make one of those meals,
you know, plant predominant. Let's make half the
plate vegetables. Like, not to defer defer to
people complain about what what the government is
(05:43):
telling us, but the good thing about the
My Plate is, like, that's what they're telling
us. Make half your plate vegetables. If we
all did that, we would have see such
an improvement in, like, chronic disease,
like heart disease, the number one killer in
the country, cancer, diabetes,
all these things are, like, debilitating.
So and also we go back to, like,
(06:03):
of course, the big thing is longevity now.
Right? Health span. But it's health span. No.
But I was gonna get to that because,
like, we don't wanna just live a long,
long time and have, like, be on ventilators
in the hospital. Like, we wanna live a
long and vibrant life. So we're looking for
vitality, and that's what you're talking about, the
health span. And that's what choosing the right
(06:24):
foods can do for us. Awesome. So plant
forward is the language, you know, we've you
and I have talked about this ad nauseam
for years. You know, what's the right language
to just make it simple so that you
when you look at your plate, like, ding,
ding, ding, plan for, like, at like, what
have you come up with lately? You know,
if you've got the my plate thing, like,
what's a good metaphor or language? Just a
(06:46):
quick one so that when you when you
talk to people I'm putting you on the
spot. When you talk to people, like, how
do you just make it really simple? What's
the simple language that we can impose upon
people, impress upon people who are listening
to just add to their daily thinking process?
Right. That's a really good point because there's
so much language around the whole, like, plant
(07:06):
pay plant based, vegan,
plant forward, plant predominant.
Like, me being a little bit of a
grammar geek. I've always felt like plant based
means what it sounds like
based on plants. That doesn't mean exclusively
plants. So like, to me, plant based is
not plant exclusive.
The general thinking of it though, like in
(07:27):
the water world, maybe disagrees with me on
that.
So so that's why Yeah. Let's throw that
one out. So that's why I've sort of,
you know, veered towards more, like, plant forward
or plant predominant.
I mean, I love And I guess forward.
Right? Like, forward means it's sort of in
front of me, and it's this is my
you know, so there's a movement to forward.
(07:48):
Right? So it has so much great language
around, you know, pushing the vegetables in front
of you, like, to be more forward and
to push the other stuff away and to
have it front and center. I don't know.
Like, what else is coming up for you
around using that? Right. And, you know, go
back to something you said earlier, which I
think is astute, which is and when you
start adding more stuff,
(08:08):
then other stuff sort of goes away. And
I, you know, I like to say not
like getting rid of that stuff, but like
crowding it out. Right? So you're crowding in
more vegetables.
And and it's not just like a random
thing. Like, the reason we're crowding in more
vegetables
is because they supply so many different nutrients
for us. And the important thing, the fiber,
(08:30):
which which apparently,
like, 10% of us are getting enough fiber.
So so, you know, we're talking all about
protein, protein, protein, protein, and yes, of course,
protein is important. It's like the building blocks
of our, of our body. Right. But the
fiber is the thing that keeps things moving,
moving along.
(08:51):
Like, so it keeps your body Literally. It
moves everything through your the rest of your
body because it needs to process it, like
and and get get it moving. So it's
it's actually getting absorbed through the where it's
supposed to get absorbed. Now without even realizing
it, I got into our topic because what
is the fiber?
It's like the food for our gut microbiome.
(09:12):
So Okay. So let's go down that path.
Yeah. Let's talk a little bit of definition
because we're we are both we're geeks. So
tell us what gut biome is. Tell us
some of the language we need to know,
like bacteria, the probiotic, the biotic part. Like,
I don't even know what the right language
is. So take us down a little bit
of a path of what we need to
know so we can have this conversation. Okay.
So for starters, I'm gonna say we have
(09:34):
more bacteria
in our gut than we actually have human
cells. That's like crazy. Right? That's like and
bacteria are alive. Right? They are literally
living beings
that are
in our bodies. Okay. Let's just recognize. So,
like, we have these micro microorganisms
in our gut. Mainly, they do most of
(09:55):
their best work in our colon, our large
intestine.
So, like, that's where the bulk of them
are. They're they're busy, busy doing their work,
and they're actually controlling a lot of our
body processes.
So it's so interesting that that, you know
and this is kind of, you know, in
the general scheme of thing, this is pretty
recent science. Like, it's not, you know, hundreds
(10:17):
of years old. Like this is, this is
more recent past, I don't know, I think
couple of decades. I'm not sure, but that
they've discovered
how much power these microorganisms
in our gut have over our health, over
our physical health, over our mental health. Like,
there's a lot of other research going on
now between the connection between
our gut and our brain Mhmm. And how
(10:39):
it impacts. So it's interesting because, like, our
brain affects our gut in our food choice.
Right? And then it goes the other way
because our gut is affecting our brain. And,
also, like, on the top of that. Right?
It's either healthy brain or not healthy brain
depending on what you're feeding. Like, you're literally
like, if you think about that language, we're
feeding our brain through what we eat. Like,
(10:59):
some of it is we're feeding it through
the clutter of of shame and guilt and,
like, all this other stuff that's in our
brain. We call that feeding. You know, I
would use the word feeding for that too.
But we are literally, literally
feeding our body and our brain with the
food choices that we make. Right? Yeah. Yeah.
And the other interesting part of it is,
(11:20):
like like you said, like, you have good
bacteria, you have bad bacteria. You know, I
don't wanna shame the bacteria, but, like there
are some that help us and some that
are not so helpful to us.
So ones that the ones that are not
helpful to us, which unfortunately,
a lot of times in this age of
like, let's say it, we're eating 60% of
(11:40):
our diet from ultra processed food right now,
which is insane. Those bacteria,
like, then tell your brain, like, I need
more of this. I need more of this.
And that's where you get a lot of
those, like, cravings for these other foods that
are not so good for you. Like, it's
not strictly in your head. It's not just
because it tastes good. It's because your your
(12:02):
bugs in your gut are literally telling your
brain, like, I need more of that food
that makes me strong. I think this is
so important. So let's, like, go down this
a little bit further because I didn't really
process this, and this is gonna change my
life. Okay? So I'm I'm sure anybody who's
listening, it's gonna have a huge impact. So
the literally,
the choices we make and and let's talk
(12:23):
chemicals at some point also, you know, like
the the other stuff we're putting in with
the pesticides and other chemicals. But anyway, because
that comes to mind. But the choices of
what bacteria we put into our bodies literally
give
being shamed, as you said, shamed and guilt.
Like, they're actually giving instructions of how to
(12:45):
be immune, how to, you know, how to
build immunity, how to think in, you know,
how to be immune, how to, you know,
how to build immunity, how to think in
in, like, deep thoughtful ways, how to sleep
probably. Right? Like, keep going because this is
so cool. Well, I think what I was
more of what I was talking about and
you know me, I wanna get I wanna
get to the positive side.
Yes. Yeah. Right. So,
(13:05):
so the converse of it was you're eating
foods that support
the, the good bugs, the good bugs, the
ones that help you, that ones that do
all those things, help you have a good
night's sleep, help you have the right, you
know, create the right hormones to support your
body, help you to reduce inflammation, all those
(13:25):
things. Right? They create metabolites in our gut,
right, that are helping us. If we eat
the foods that are feeding those,
a lot of times, what happens is, you
know, you'll find now all of a sudden,
those are the the little microorganisms
that are craving more food. So I know
it sounds crazy, but you do start, like,
(13:45):
losing the craving for the junk food and
more
craving those healthy foods because all of a
sudden they're like, yeah, we need we need
more. We need more of that. And too,
like, there's some thinking going on.
And the choice is that what's in our
body is not just is not because we
have all these other microorganisms
living in our body. They're actually making decisions
(14:08):
too, and they're, like, it's not on our
brain. Like, there's this gut brain that we've
got, and it sounds like this part of
this gut brain is actually these other nonhuman
things that are that are overwhelmingly
enormous
that are helping make decisions for us. And
if we wanna make good decisions, we we
have to think about what they're thinking. That's
(14:28):
like crazy. I mean Mind blowing. I don't
know enough about what they're thinking or what
they're doing. Like, I'm not a microbiologist,
but I know I know the, like, ultimate
impact of it. So if we want if
we wanna start changing
and actually, I I wanna go back to,
like, something we just totally glossed over, which
was the reason we started talking about this
(14:50):
topic in the place was the resilience. Right?
Yeah. Yeah. And I said, oh my God,
that's like, oh, we have to talk about
this because
it's gut diversity
is what gives us our resilience, right? So
of all, I just, I don't want to
forget to say this important fact, which is
your gut can change within twenty four hours.
Well, that's what I was gonna ask. Tell
us tell us about timing, like the impact
(15:11):
of yeah, go ahead. Okay. So they did
a study comparing,
you know, a low fiber, high
animal food diet to a extremely high fiber
diet,
and they tested people's gut microbiome and they
found that the diversity
could change, the structure of the microbiome could
change within twenty four hours. Now, like, there's
resilience there. Right? So if you go back
(15:33):
to your old way of eating, it just
goes back. But if you keep doing that
for, like, say, six months, it becomes like
an permanent part of your gut microbiome. It's
like any practice. Like, if you think about
it as a practice, right, that it doesn't
it's not a one time thing where you're
gonna change. You know, like, any new resilience
practice that I talk about, that we learn
(15:54):
about
is a practice that you have to keep
doing it to change your neural networks, your
pathways,
your gut. Like, every everything you do is
a lifetime commitment.
You know, even after six months, if you
go back, your body's gonna go back. Right?
And it's gonna make bad decisions.
So keep this in mind that, like, nutrition,
plan forward all of these choices are not
(16:15):
a, oh, I'll do it when I'm on
vacation or I won't do it. I'm on
vacation. But it's a lifestyle. Like, it's a
choice that you get to make. And that's,
like, the biggest part of this for me.
Right? Like, the building resilience is such an
intentional opportunity.
Like, make the choice
to be healthier, to make changes
long term that might be a little uncomfortable,
(16:37):
a little hard, a little work to build
up. But, like, once it becomes a practice
and it becomes more natural and nature, you've
you've got it. Right? Like, and just you
can just keep doing that instead of doing
what seemed easy before. I find it really
hard to eat ultra processed food now, like,
or food dyes. I look at that food,
(16:57):
and I'm, like, so icked out. That was
so easy to eat not that long ago.
So, like, you can change all of it.
And as you were saying, like, you have
all this great support from your microbiome to,
like, help you make those good decisions. Sorry.
Go ahead. Right. Yeah. So excited. I was
like, wow. This is I I know. I
was I was so interested in what you
were saying that I forgot I was gonna
(17:18):
say. So so we
yeah. So I remember now. What I was
gonna say was, like, what you were saying
that it's hard in the beginning because, like,
you may make the mental shift, like, I
wanna do this and then your gut's screaming,
no way. We liked it the way it
was. Like, we don't want that. So so
(17:39):
like, yeah, you have to recognize that it's
not always easy right away, but like, it
depends what kind of person you are. Like,
for me, I'm like a little bit at
a time kind of person. Some people are
more like all or none. Like, I have
to just dive in and struggle through it
and then I'll be there. Like for me,
and I think for like most of the
people I've worked with, it's
(18:00):
it's more about like making that gradual shift,
adding one thing, but one thing that you
can do consistently.
Right? So it's all about being consistent.
So if you say,
I don't know. I eat you know, some
people I guess the top group of people
are eating, like, most of the meat kind
of. So someone might be eating meat three
times a day. Like, for that person,
(18:23):
I know this is gonna sound backwards, but
there there's a reason I'm gonna say this.
Like, think about not having meat at night,
like, with your dinner. And not, like, going
back to the positive part, like, not not
having meat, but having something else, having beans,
having mushrooms,
having tofu, or something like that Gotcha. Which
(18:44):
I can really yummy. Eats the protein. There
are other sources of protein. I mean, that's
the gist. Right? Like, we there are so
many other healthy Yeah. And the reason I'm
saying dinner is is because even though, like,
that's where most most people would have their
meat if they were only having, like, one
meat meal a day is because that sets
off sort of a cascade of improvement. Because
(19:05):
if you don't eat it at that heavy
meal at dinner, which like the protein is
much harder to digest, if it's coming from
animal foods, then it's harder for you to
sleep because your body's working on that digestion.
Right? So,
so setting up Wait. That's huge. Let's just
honestly, let's just say that again,
that eating meat is a longer process for
(19:26):
your body to digest. And if you're eating
it in the morning, your body is sort
of running around all day and it has
time to digest and it's not, it'll interfere
with other stuff for sure. But, like, sleep,
since I just dropped these episodes about sleep
that were just so important. Right? Like, animals
make such intentional choices about what they eat,
and we don't make the same kinds of
(19:47):
intentional choices about what we eat or we
many people aren't, that at night, if you're
not sleeping well, there is a lot connected
to what you ate for dinner and what
time you ate it and what you're eating
in the evening and all the snacking and
whatever it is. So that's, like, hugely important.
Yeah. I mean, I I would say, obviously,
there's research to support this. The person from
(20:08):
my personal experience, like, that would that was
probably the biggest change I noticed when I
went you know, I'm mostly plant based, I
would say. At home, I eat plant based.
I do eat,
omnivorous
sometimes in other places. But that was the
biggest change I noticed, which was, like, my
sleep was so improved.
Wow. And and, like and also and also,
(20:30):
to get back to the gut, like, the
quality of your sleep impacts the health of
your gut as well. Yeah. With all lights,
one thing affects the other, and now we're
talking about that's like the whole resilient
ecosystem. Right? Everything's working together. So I do
wanna talk about that, but I there's something
on my mind that I just wanna make
sure that we talk about because it's really
important.
Changing habits
(20:51):
and making different decisions is hard. Okay? And
the most impactful way to make a different
decision, really, the only way to make a
different long term decision is by aligning it
with a sense of purpose, to have a
reason
to make the change, not just because of
a some, like, thing that some you know,
some expectations of society or whatever that are
(21:13):
putting pressure on you to make a different
choice. So if you just think I should
add this because
somebody says it's good for me or because
I'll be judged by others from what I'm
eating or something, that's that's not enough to
have a sense of real aligned purpose for
why you're changing your eating habits and why
you care about what's in your gut and
(21:34):
why you care about this diverse microbe. Like,
you have to have an inner sense of
what it's gonna do for you. That each
bite you put in your mouth, picture your
long term future self. Right? Like, your future
self and your lifespan.
Right? And and what we were talking about
before, like, it matters your vitality.
Like, if I eat broccoli or if I
(21:55):
eat tofu or beans versus a
meal of meat, I will be able
to sleep better,
think better, long, long term that my will
hold out better? Like, go go down that
path a little bit, like, the whole connection
with a sense of purpose around what you're
choosing to eat. Yeah. I get I mean,
I guess for me, it started kind of
over COVID when,
(22:17):
I used to work in a lot of
care homes, teaching cooking, healthy cooking to disabled
people. And obviously, there was lockdown, so, like,
I was not going out there anymore. So
I had more time at home. I made
a bunch of videos,
for Arc of Westchester, by the way.
They're on YouTube. If anybody's looking, just look
up Alicia. They're on YouTube. They're, you know,
(22:38):
that was our very early days and, you
know, I don't consider myself a presenter, but
I did the best I could at the
time. But anyway, the the crux of it
was I had a lot more time at
home to cook, to prepare, to explore,
to do research. As a registered dietitian, we
always have to do continuing ed throughout our
career. And I really, like, loved what I
(23:00):
learned about the plant based diet. And in
particular, like, the fact that choosing
plants actually is good for the planet, like
the impact of a plant based diet versus
a meat centric
diet, I'll call it, on, you know,
the use of cropland,
the, you know, carbon farming. I call it,
(23:21):
like, our food print. Right? Our food print
makes a difference. And by the way, you
could Google food print and do your own
food print online. Like, it's company. If you
want, I'll give you that link. Yeah. We'll
put it in the show notes. That is
neat. I gotta do that. It's like a
it's like a three minute quiz. They ask
you a bunch of questions. Yeah. And it's
kinda cool. Yeah. Well, it'll wake us it'll
wake you up. Like, that's the whole idea.
(23:42):
Right? So I was like, you know, I'm
a dietitian. And also, like, I've been eating
kinda healthy, fairly healthy, I'll say most of
my life. And I was like, why aren't
we talking about this? This is like the
universal solution
to everything.
So so and to go back to your
point about how hard it is to make
a change, like, again, I didn't do it
all at once. I didn't suddenly say, that's
(24:02):
it. I'm not doing buying any more meat,
dairy, anything. You know, we just started eating,
you know, adding more plant based meals,
eating meat less often, eating smaller portions, like
making a plate more plant centric. Right? And
eventually, like, literally, it's so funny. It's my
husband who said it. He's like, you know
what? Like, do we really need it? And
(24:23):
I was like, you know what? Probably not.
How great is that that you influence the
people around you with without judging and shoulding,
and instead you're role modeling and teaching
and exploring.
And the people around you start to get
it, and they think about it in their
own way. And they're like, wait a minute.
This makes so much sense. It's not working
(24:43):
for me either. Let's do this together. Right.
And, like, and, like, also, of course, like,
is flavor.
So so it has to it has to
taste good. Right? It has to be not
that complicated because I'm not gonna spend four
hours in the kitchen preparing a meal unless
it's Thanksgiving or Christmas, I guess. But so
so, like, that was sort of there's so
(25:04):
many great resources out there, and I felt
like I could pull together a bunch of
stuff. And I started doing some cooking classes
peep with people, and they Yeah. And they'd
say they would be excited about it because
they'd be like,
wow, I didn't know. Like, I didn't know
it was this easy. I didn't know it
could taste this good. You know, there's a
really important point that you're making that, that
(25:25):
I'm thinking of in that there's a you
know, you said you started slowly. Right? Like,
there was something that just felt like you
needed to move in a certain direction. And
there's also moments of moments of change
that, you know, like a visit to a
factory farm. The moment I recognized that when
I was at Loggerhead, you know, teaching in
the aquariums
for early on, I was like, oh my
(25:47):
god. These fish are individually
sentient.
Like, what the frigging are we doing? Not
respecting
the animal world. Like, that's, you know, that's
where I come from on a part of
what drives me to, like, I look at
meat that I'm about that's around me, and
I'm like, I picture it as the actual
animal in a factory farm or whatever it
is. And the smile on his face, like,
(26:08):
you know, that's that works for me, and
it's changed my life. Like, we all have
these moments. Like, you had this moment where
you're you know, maybe it's somebody who learns
about gut microbe, and they're like, my god.
What am I doing? Like, mixing crap in,
ultra processed crap. I'm just impacting my whole
body and and maybe and that's why I'm
not feeling well. And whatever it is, like,
there could be a moment that changes everything,
(26:30):
or there could just be this commitment to,
like, figure out how to do it better
and how to do it better in community
and to, like, really being on a super
learning track. Anyway, I just think it's really
important to, like, have a sense of what
can move you forward to make better decisions.
Sometimes it's an one moment that really makes
a big impact, and somehow it's just like
this ongoing thinking of, like, we could like,
(26:51):
Ross, her husband. Like, wait a minute. This
all makes sense. Like, why are we doing
this? Let's just make a different decision. Like,
all the little pieces of data. And, like,
the other piece of it, though, which is,
I think, the most important thing is, like,
it's a work it's always a work in
progress.
It's there's always there's always room for, like,
(27:12):
I'm not even gonna say less than perfect.
Nothing is perfect.
Like, we go
we we like, you shouldn't you shouldn't not
do something just because you can't do it
a 100%.
And that's like that's like where I come
from.
Like, it doesn't make sense to for that
person who's eating meat breakfast, lunch, and dinner
to suddenly go cold turkey.
(27:32):
But then they fail and they give up
versus knowing that it's just a step as
you're moving forward. Versus like for for one
person, it might be just, like, adding mushrooms
to the burger mix so that it's, like,
half mushrooms and half meat. That's the whole
point. Yeah. We learn and we grow. Like,
and research gets better and we get more
access to research and research gets more honest.
(27:53):
Like, you know, the change in, as you
said, we've only been understanding more about this
in the last couple of decades. That was
access to the Internet and the information that's
out there, not just that the research was
being done. Part of it might have been,
you know, a a big growth in research,
but it was access
to the conversations and to to the the
raw research so that we could make decisions
(28:15):
on our own instead of being told by
the
the lobbying powers that we should be eating
milk, drinking milk, and we should be eating
beef. You know, I, yeah, I do wanna
talk about the research for a though because
Yeah. Because
pretty much as we know now from the
Internet, anyone can find a research study to
support their opinion. Right? So when when our
(28:35):
decisions become
emotional
versus data driven, that's a different story.
Like one research study does not make a,
health recommendation,
shall I say. Right? We have decades of
research supporting the idea that eating a diet
predominant in fruits and vegetables,
whole grains, legumes, nuts, and seeds is good
(28:59):
for our health, right? For longevity,
for cardiac health, for preventing diabetes,
even for preventing certain types of cancer. And
that's like thousands of research studies probably. Someone
might come up with a research study tomorrow
that says, like,
eating the carnivore diet is good for,
I don't know, acne or something like that.
(29:21):
I don't know. I'm just making You never
know. Right? Yeah. But but
but like, that doesn't mean, like, we throw
out
fifty years of research. It means that, okay,
this is interesting. Let's dive into that more.
It doesn't become like a,
a fact
until like it can be repeated. It can
be, you know, it can be it's done
(29:42):
with a lot of large population of people.
It's done over time. It's shown like long
term consequences.
Absolutely. Great, great, great input. Thank you. Let's
make you know, the the basic knowledge that's
out there
has grown. And, clearly, it's all about moving
towards plant forward, and and we need to
(30:02):
talk more about the diversity of our gut
bio biome. And, like, if you find one
something on social media that somebody says is
the way you should be living and it
doesn't make sense, but it feels easier, that
is something you should process. Right? Like, am
I doing this for the right reasons, or
am I doing this just to
make life easier? Like, and what are your
(30:23):
priorities?
Yeah. I mean and I I do wanna
go back to what you just said about
the diversity in the gut microbiome because that
was the main crux of our talk. By
the way, you can see why Alisa and
I have these long conversations because we're always
like, oh my god. That's so interesting. Let's
go down that path. And, oh my god.
You just said this. Let me okay. Let's
talk diversity and how we how we all
yeah. We came to this conversation.
(30:45):
As as you did sort of allude to
at the beginning, the food choices we make
in terms of diversity
helps us become more resilient. So if you
think about, like, a farmland. Right? We know
that monocrops are not healthy for the planet
because, like, it's like they don't have the
right combination of Wait. Just because not everybody
knows what monocrops are. You and I are,
(31:05):
like, obsessed with it. But tell tell us
about monocrops. Tell us about the biggest little
farm, yours and my favorite film in the
whole world. Go down that path and, like,
explain a little because it really matters where
our food is coming from, the journey that
and to, like, connect back to the sources
of our food, very, you know, indigenous thinking
that is
(31:25):
bringing back you know, coming back into a
lot of the work, you know, that's being
done. Go down that path. Tell us. The
Biggest Little Farm did change my life a
a bit as well. So, like, to go
back to the thing about the plant based,
like, I read the China study when it
came out. That was like
a a long time ago, which is the
original book that, you know, showed all the
(31:46):
research about how this plant forward diet is,
I'm not gonna say the best diet because,
of course, nutrition is very individual, but, like,
on a population
level is, you know, the healthiest diet for
us. I knew all that. And for the
planet.
Right. That at that time, we weren't talking
about that. That came later with the plan
the Lancet Lancet Commission and the the planetary
(32:09):
health diet, which is also very interesting.
I would recommend you look into it, but
I'm not gonna go into that right now.
But then I watched the big little farm
and the story is like these people get
to a farm, they buy, buy land, which
is basically dirt. It's like hard dirt. You
can't even dig a shovel into the dirt.
Right? It's like nothing. There is no life
(32:29):
on this place.
And through six years, I think of trials
and tribulations, they convert this into like a
thriving ecosystem.
So at the end, you know, the soil
is good. They're sledding at all the neighbor
farms, which are monocrops,
like one thing growing. Right? Their farm was
fine because the soil was so healthy that
(32:50):
it was soaking up the water and protecting
everything. There were so many interesting things in
that because
they found, like,
they had snails in their orchard or something.
And then Yep. They realized that they could
let the ducks roam free and the ducks
would go in the orchard and eat all
the snails. And like, like, everything worked together.
The reason I love that is because I
(33:10):
feel like our gut is sort of like
an analogy for that. Mhmm. Right? Everything's working
together. And you mentioned,
like, probiotics, which are a big thing, you
know, a couple of years ago. Now I
think they're fading a little bit. Now we're,
I don't know. But but, like, the problem
with some of those is, like, a probiotic
is, like, they they catch a specific train
(33:32):
strain of bacteria
that they know is, like, been proven to
be healthy. It has to be, like, scientifically
determined, blah blah blah.
And then there's a piece of it that's
missing
because when we eat actual
live probiotics
in food,
there's there's way more than that. Like those
three strains or whatever. It's like mono it's
(33:53):
monopharma versus
regenerative diverse farm biodiverse farming. Right. So, like,
yes, there is a place for pro probiotics
for some people. Absolutely. But, like, the line
of defense is always gonna be like, get
it from food. So what are probiotic foods?
You inspired me because we were talking about
it and I've kind of gone off the
pro
(34:14):
the the fermented food train for a little
while. So I actually bought more sauerkraut yesterday
at the supermarket.
Okay. I just want everybody to know there's
an upcoming episode about fermentation
and related to winemaking with this amazing woman,
Marta Mendonca. So we're starting fermentation now, and
we're gonna keep going. So because it's really
important.
Okay. So those are those are, so that's
(34:36):
one thing that's good for your gut health.
Then the piece, which I should have probably
said but is the prebiotics,
like the prebiotics,
probiotics,
and then postbiotics,
which are like the metabolites
of these bacteria in our gut doing their,
doing their fancy dance. Right. Whatever. So the
prebiotics
are mainly the fruits and vegetables,
(34:56):
the whole grains, those things that we were
talking about before. Legumes. Legumes are huge. And
like, not to say if there were a
superfood,
I think it would be beans and lentils
because they're just so magical, like protein packed,
fiber packed. And like what we were saying,
like all those extra phytonutrients
that you wouldn't find if you just tried
(35:17):
to make, like, take out, take out the
fiber, like, put it in a fiber supplement
or something.
So,
yeah, I love beans. But, of course, we
know there's no one superfood. We need diversity.
And that that's really to come back to,
like, what we were talking about. Diversity
always leads to resilience.
So like on the farm,
diversity, the diversity in the way they structured
(35:39):
the farm and having lots of, they had
like an orchard and vegetables growing and the
animal farm and everything working together, they had
resilience when there was flooding. So same thing,
like, in our gut. When we have that
whole, like, I guess, farm of different microorganisms,
they work together
to, like, defend us against
(35:59):
things that we don't necessarily want going on
down there. And to help us to in
a positive sense, to help us be able
to do the stuff we want to, like
to pass the food through effectively and to
not feel sick from our food. And I
have learned
that
eating
up to 30 different plants per week is
kind of a great goal for our health,
(36:21):
like, has has been supported in the research
to help to improve our health and longevity
and all that. So
I haven't done it in a while, and
now you're gonna inspire me to do it
again. I remember the charts when you had
given them to me. I'm like, okay. How
many and, like, herbs, different herbs count. So
if you have pizza and it has oregano
on it. Like, that counts. But it's such
a light up kind of thing to think,
(36:42):
oh my god. I've got these 30 different
things that are in my life, and I
didn't even realize it And that they're all
good for me. Right. So like what I
was saying before about beans being soup a
super food. Mhmm. Yes. But I'm not gonna
eat, like, even though chickpea is my favorite,
I'll admit that. Mhmm. I'm not gonna eat,
you know, chickpeas every day. That's not making
my gut healthy. My my gut is becoming
(37:02):
healthy by eating,
you know, chickpeas
and black beans and lentils
and broccoli and onions and mushrooms and, like
and you'd be surprised how quickly it adds
up.
You know, maybe you only like that you
I work with a lot of kids,
from urban areas who, you know, maybe have
not had a lot of exposure
(37:24):
to a variety of variety of foods. Right?
And they they have a hard time latching
on to that, like, having a new food.
So I'm excited, like, if they add a
new vegetable. Like, okay, the only vegetable I
eat is broccoli and it has to be
covered with cheese. Right? So now so now
our goal is, like, try one new vegetable
a week. Everything tastes good covered in cheese
(37:45):
and salt. So, like, try a new one.
What's the date? Or deep fried. Right? Exactly.
I'm not recommending that. But but anything that
gets you out of your comfort zone. For
example, a few years ago, I went to
an event at the Jacob Burns Center, which
was a film about bugs. I don't know.
I told you about this. So after it,
they had a reception where you could eat
bugs. I did it because, like, you have
(38:07):
to you have to walk out. Yep. I
did it recently too. Same thing. Yep. It's
you gotta walk the talk. I didn't love
it, but I tried it. So, like, that's
the point. You can try things. And also,
again, you may try it this week and
you don't like it. You might try it
again in a year. Don't be shy about
trying it again because our taste buds change,
and it also has to do with how
(38:28):
our microbe microbiome
Yeah. 30% of the time. If we're if
we're moving towards changing what we eat, just
because we didn't like something when we started
that process,
certainly doesn't mean that
now we won't be excited to include something
there. Like, it's a it's a really practical
point. Right. And, like, on the Converse side,
a lot of we, you know, we only
(38:50):
touched on the ultra processed food thing. If
when we're eating ultra processed foods, a lot
of them, like, they may you may go
to the supermarket and, like, now there's, I
don't know, 40,000 different foods in the supermarket
or something like that, which is so interesting
because,
you know, like, a few decades ago,
it was, like, maybe 800 or something like
(39:10):
that. So I just I just think, like,
you look there and it looks like there's
so much variety. Like, I can go to
the yogurt aisle and I had a hard
time, like, choosing there's, like, 800 kinds of
yogurt alone. But if you go in the
middle, like forget about it, there's 400 different
types of cookie, but guess what? Like, they're
all made out of the same stuff. So
(39:31):
even though it looks like variety, it's not
variety.
It's the same thing. So which is why
I think
ultra processed food has such a negative impact
on our health because we're losing the diversity.
And I don't realize it. And we don't
realize it.
Like, lucky charms have has all these different
color the pretend
color. And you could think, oh, my cereal
(39:53):
is totally diverse. Right? I've got red things
and green things and blue things. And you're
like, oh my god. It's actually you stop
to read the the, nutrition thing. They're all
the same. They just have different food dyes
in them. Like, it's one ultra processed food.
So, like, that's such a huge practical tip
that's so helpful. Like, look at the ingredients
(40:13):
on the foods the ultra processed foods you're
eating, and there's the same, I don't know,
what is it, five or 10 ingredients that
are gonna be across your cereals and your
your Cheetos and your, I don't know, whatever.
And go around the outside circle of your
supermarket,
and you've got thousands of whole individual foods
that are not on that ingredient list. Right.
(40:33):
And and I always teach, like, eat the
rainbow because
a lot of times, like, colors are a
symbol of or a representation
of the diversity of nutrients in a food.
Right? And that makes sense. But when I'm
with the kids, like and I say eat
the rainbow, and they're like, taste the rainbow,
Skittles. Yeah. And I'm like, no. I always
have to say, no. Not Skittles. Not taste
(40:54):
the rainbow. Eat the rainbow. We're talking about
fruits and vegetables.
Right? They eat the natural rainbow. Yeah. It's
actually a cool thing. Like, if you make
your plate up, like, if you they in
terms of, like, what we can remember to
process,
that'll remind us really easily of how to
do this and why it matters. Like, look
at your plate. Right? Like, I remember for
years, my son was just so he had
(41:15):
all these allergies, and he was his food
plate was so white, white and yellowish. Right?
And Beige. And I Beige. Beige. And I
literally would like, if I had to come
up for something to take away as some
sort of weird punishment, I would take away
one of those white foods like cheese. It's,
like, still a part of our history of
how do you parent well, like, with it.
It's like you add a color instead of
(41:38):
another white item or white or yellow or
beige item on your plate, it can only
be good for you as long as it's
not created by food dyes and it's actually
created naturally. Like, look at your plate. Does
your plate look right? Like, it's not just
a diversity thing, but diversity is so simple
if you think about it by color. Right.
Right. Even a different color
like, it's not one color green. Look at
your background. Yeah. That forces you to be,
(42:00):
like, more mindful about what you're eating and
really pay attention to what you're eating. Right?
And enjoy it. Like, you can eat it
with your eyes for before you even eat
it with your mouth. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes.
I love that.
Okay. So a few more practical trip tips.
Last word of wisdom, and then thank you
for changing our changing us, changing our mindsets.
Okay. Couple give me give us some more
(42:21):
practical tips. Practical tips. If there's any left,
like, we talked about a lot. There's
well, like, the the practical
tip, I think, is,
I guess, going back to my superfood. Like,
the best place to start for me is
beans because beans add so much. Now, if
you're not used to eating a lot of
fiber, the most practical tip I can give
you is take it slow. Take it slow
(42:43):
a little bit. Right? Right. Because then you're
gonna hate it. Easy. You're gonna be like,
I'm not eating beans. Beans may be eating
beans. I'm not even talking about that. Right.
You might have bloating. You might have other
problems. Right? So you wanna you wanna
take it easy. What the point we were
just saying about eat the rainbow,
thinking about the color on your plate, thinking
about the diversity on your plate. Again, like
(43:04):
we as consumers
have a tremendous amount of power over what
gets grown and sold to us. Right? So
if we create that demand of a diversity
of foods and by the way, according to
the USDA,
like vegetables and fruits are considered like specialty
crops,
which means they don't get all the same
subsidies
(43:24):
as the commodity crops, like, you know, corn,
grain, wheat, soy soy. Most of the soy
is grown for animal feed. Right?
So us creating that demand, like right now,
we don't grow enough of those vegetables
for everyone to follow the USDA MyPlate guide.
We don't grow enough. So that tells you
(43:45):
we're not eating enough. Right? Obviously, we're importing
some, but like our food system doesn't match
what's good for our health.
And, like, for me, I think that's the
biggest goal is that we want ultimately to
have a food system that supports our health.
Policy wise, which at the center of it.
Right?
Because Yeah. And And we can influence policy.
(44:06):
We can do our part by,
you know, I say, take climate action with
your fork. Right? So so it's one of
those things, like, a lot of the climate
action stuff is, like, about restriction or doing
without, or it feels like austerity
or whatever.
But like in terms of food, it's the
opposite. It's like abundance. You're creating abundance. You're
(44:27):
taking that beige plate and turning it into
a beautiful colorful plate with, you know, different
textures and flavors. And think about, like, all
the amazing herbs and spices that make
food so good. Right? But all those things
Right. So, you know, I think it's an
expansion or restriction.
Yeah. I mean, I would say one more
thing, you know, that is so that I
(44:48):
think of a lot that, yeah, that you
certainly helped helped me learn. You know, each
individual
food is such a beautiful food in itself.
So, like, these mixing things together so that
you don't recognize them. But this isn't anything
new, like, eating whole food. And on your
plate, thinking about
if you can actually identify
each individual food, and, you know, separate from
(45:09):
the herbs and spices that are part of
it. But if you can, if you see
if you see your lentils and you see
your broccoli and you see your
chicken or whatever it is that you that
is on your plate, if each one is
shining at you with its own identity,
each one then you can be sure has
all the stuff that the good stuff that
comes with it. But if you're eating things
that are all mixed together so you don't
(45:29):
even know what you're eating because it's ultra
processed and processed and whatever, like, you don't
have any idea what you're getting. I love
I love how you just put that. Cool.
Because it's true. Like, the processed food,
like, they may process it and take stuff
out and then put stuff back in. Yeah.
Like, now it's enriched or fortified or whatever,
but you're you're losing something along the way
(45:50):
in the processing.
So our bodies are designed
to process the food. So You know, that's
huge. Like We have to make it work
that way. Processing it for us. We actually
benefit
from doing the processing ourselves. Like, just picture
how the food moves through your body. Like,
you don't need that starter point where they've
already done all that fermentation and chile or
whatever. And and, like, we're built for that,
(46:12):
and we need to use it or else
we'll lose it. Yeah. Yeah. For sure. Wow.
I love that. Okay. I have I have
another question. I know we're going long. But
can you talk for a moment about, like,
chemicals and pesticides and organics? Like, you know,
we've talked about the way food is made,
but what about what's the impact on our
bodies from all that other stuff that we're
bringing in relative I mean, there's this could
(46:33):
go on conversation could be many hours, but,
like, relative
related to our gut microbe. Okay. Alright. So,
I mean, I'm glad you brought that up.
This is not really a
a special research topic of mine. So I
don't you know, I can't speak
to that as much as I can say.
I don't like to get caught up in
that because at the end of the day,
(46:55):
our health is based on a bigger picture.
Like, yes, of course, I'd love to see
a world where we're not using all kinds
of chemical fertilizers and inputs in our food
system. But all the research supporting
plant predominance,
eating more fruits and vegetables
is based on all food,
conventional.
(47:16):
So these are the same things that have
been grown in the same way for, you
know,
decades. Right? It's still beneficial.
But like better to eat broccoli
than say I'm not eating it because I
don't have organic broccoli. You're still just you're
better off eating the food than avoiding foods
that aren't deemed organic. Right. That's a huge
(47:36):
point.
I feel like there's a lot of fear
mongering.
Right? And at the end of the day,
like, I'd rather you take that conventional apple
and wash it and eat it than not
have it because you're scared that it might
be tainted with pesticides. Or that you can't
and you can't afford it. So you'll leave
the the cheap food and and that'll become
secondary. Like, what I'm eating. A whole other
(47:58):
podcast, Jessica. I know. I know. We'll we'll
get you back. We'll get you back.
Coming back.
Okay. But the the main practical point is
and I remember my pediatrician saying this to
me many years ago with my kids when
they were little. He's like, just get them
to eat the foods. The secondary
is how it is how they were processed.
And at the time, there wasn't as much
organic anyway. But, like, just get them to
(48:20):
eat it, and then it'll become part of
their lives, and it'll help them. Right. Obviously,
we both dream of a food system where
everyone has access to affordable,
healthy, untainted food, but we're not quite there
yet. And we can all be healthier by
including more plants in our diet. One more
practical tip that I'm offering up,
and to for you to follow-up on is,
(48:42):
you need to take a food like a
healthy food like coffee or a smoothie that
has all the healthy ingredients, and then you
add all this crap to it. And the
question is, how do you move forward a
bit so that you're keeping these whole healthy
foods
actually
good for you? But what I'm glad you
brought up smoothies because as we figured out
before okay. June 21 is coming up. National
(49:04):
Smoothie Day. Smoothies are an awesome way to
add diversity
to your diet
because and especially like you have if you
you I'm not gonna say just kids because
there are I know plenty of adults that
don't eat enough don't eat vegetables at all,
but but you can put vegetables in a
smoothie. I make a carrot cake smoothie. It's
amazing.
(49:24):
Like, every kid I've ever gave in given
it to loves it. There's a lot of
sugar in carrots. You can put spinach in
smoothies. It has fruit in it also. Like,
I do a combination. Mhmm. But the whole
idea is, like, when you put it in
a smoothie, like, of all, spinach has zero
flavor when you put it in a smoothie.
It just blends in with whatever else it
gets mixed with. Right? If you add bananas
(49:45):
to any smoothie, like, the banana is overpowering
and it makes it so creamy. If you
freeze them, It's a good way to prevent
food waste. Your bananas go brown.
Mhmm. Peel them, chop them, put them in
the freezer. But back to the smoothie thing.
Like, also in the smoothie, you can add
other things. Like, I whenever I make a
smoothie, I'll add, like, a tablespoon of ground
flaxseed. I'll add some wild blueberries. I might
(50:07):
add some spinach. So you can add you
could you could have a smoothie with, like,
five or six different plants in it. You're
already, like, a quarter of the way. Of
the whole of the way? Yeah. I just
need them out. You're a of the way
towards your 30 plants a week. Right? Just
in one cup.
Again, remember,
like, portions,
if you're if you're watching if you're thinking
(50:27):
about weight control,
of course, you have to think about the
fact that it's much easier to drink food
than to eat food so you could get
into trouble there. But if you're paying attention
to the portions, it's good. And if you're
just trying to get, like, nutrition and calories
in, it's it's an awesome way to do
that. But like you say, like, you don't
need to add the sweeteners, the sugars, the
(50:48):
honey, the whatever, maple syrup.
Sometimes if I really am, like, craving something
a little sweet, I'll use I'll throw a
date in there. Like, it's basically like solid
sugar, but, you know, you get other nutrients.
You're getting all the phytonutrients. You're getting the
fiber, whatever. Wait. I have a question. So
many people add protein powder, which goes back
to that, like, processed narrow
(51:10):
offering
of additional, you know, supplement And again, like,
thoughts on protein powder? Needs must. Like like,
I have used protein powder on occasion,
but I will tell you, like, a secret
that I learned not too long ago. You
can actually add beans to a smoothie, and
it makes it creamy, and you're getting protein
and fiber, and you're not getting all the
(51:30):
other garbage. I would say in terms of
protein powder, I would be careful. Look at
the ingredients. Like, it always goes back to
look at the ingredients. See if you're putting
it if it has ingredients that you really
wanna put in your body, then, you know,
go for it. I always found the protein
powders the flavored protein powders to be very
sweet. So even when I did use them,
(51:52):
I would use, like, half the amount. And
then I would because by the way, all
other plants contain protein also. So if you're
bulking it up with, you know, flaxseed and
beans and and spinach and all that, like,
it's still gonna have more protein than just
a scoop of protein powder with some water.
Okay. So that's, like, such an important lesson.
And one of the things I've looked up
(52:13):
over in recent years is just, like, literally
protein in plants, and you'll be mind blown.
Like, it feels like we don't get that
education that where I was thinking vitamins
from plants. But, like, plants have and and
whole grains
have a tremendous
amount of protein as like, not needing the
enrichment of adding the artificial or the process.
(52:36):
Like, it's Right.
Yeah. Like like, obviously, they have a lot
of volume because it's fiber and water. But
proportional to their calories,
they have a tremendous amount of protein.
So if you're thinking about keeping your blood
sugar stable,
weight loss, any of those kind of, obviously,
heart disease, like the saturated fats in animal
(52:58):
foods are not gonna be very good for
you. And if you're thinking about getting a
lot of your protein from plants, like, it's
a great idea.
But again, like, you probably couldn't eat the
volume of broccoli
that you would need to get protein. So
that's where you have to start being more
mindful about, like, going for those those more
protein dense sources. You can also add soy
(53:19):
milk. Right, or almond milk or something to
your smoothie instead of water or instead of
right?
The soy milk from Trader Joe's has just
two ingredients,
like soybeans and water. Yeah. Like almonds. Almonds
just yeah. I mean, you know, we can
go down a whole another podcast
label. Right of, like, what what goes into
making these milks, and we're we're gonna step
(53:40):
aside from that now because there's nothing there's
no such thing as perfect. We started out
the podcast saying that. Right? So let's wrap
up this amazing conversation
with exactly that. Like, go to because this
is I know this is a big mantra
of yours. Like, we're not looking for what
some conceptually
call perfect. Right? Like, where give us your
last words of wisdom around this whole
(54:01):
we're not going for perfect. What are we
going for? We're going for prac you know,
obviously, practice, not perfection.
Right? We're working towards it. And then, like,
just going back to the whole topic of
resilience.
Like, the whole fact that we're using a
variety of foods,
that we're protecting our gut, that we're, you
know, there's other lifestyle habits, physical activity, getting
(54:24):
good sleep, stress reduction, all those things, by
the way, also impact your gut.
The fact that you're doing all these things
means that we are resilient.
So, like, if we don't do something, you
know, quote, unquote perfectly,
it's fine. It's not a big deal. It
doesn't undo the whole thing. Learn from it
or and learn from it. Like, learn from
(54:45):
a choice you made that you're not really
sure was the right choice to make. And
instead of shaming yourself and guilting yourself, this
was episode one of this podcast. It wasn't
a mistake. It was the best you could
do in the moment
and
learn from it. Learn, like, why did I
eat that bag of chips? Because I was
so tired that I couldn't really and I
didn't have anything else accessible in my house
(55:05):
to go for. And that's what was the
easiest thing to grab at, or that was
the most colorful thing to buy at the
supermarket that was facing me on the checkout
aisle. And I couldn't help myself because I
was tired and I was hungry. Like, make
intel you know, in really intentional and mindful
decisions
from when you learn from things that you
feel like weren't quite perfect. Right. And also,
I wanna add to that. Sometimes we can
(55:27):
intentionally
do, quote, unquote, the wrong thing. Right? Yeah.
Food is like, for me, food is enjoyment.
Maybe not for everyone, but for me, food
is No. That or we're that's what we're
too late for. If I wanna have a
I wanna have a piece of cake, I'm
gonna have that piece of cake, and I'm
gonna enjoy it. Like, I'm gonna be mindful
about it. I'm gonna recognize,
(55:47):
like, this is and I don't know if
it's still in the guidelines, actually. I'm thinking
about it. But, like, in previous dietary guidelines,
like, when we had the pyramid, they always
said had a category called discretionary
calories,
which was like 10% discretionary calories. Right? Which
was a nod to this whole idea of,
like, resilience. Like, we can do, some people
(56:08):
say, eighty twenty. Right? Choose choose mostly
you know, make mostly those good choices, and
then enjoy the rest. Like, don't feel shame
about it. Enjoy it. Use it. Like, take
advantage. Fine. Like, life gets in the way,
or you may wanna enjoy it. Like, it's
your birthday. You wanna have a piece of
cake. Not a big deal. Love it. So
I think it's to remember to be intentional
(56:30):
about enjoying the things
that we might consider
not perfect.
Yeah. Sometimes we just Perfectly imperfect.
Go wild. Sometimes we just Wild. Really should
be going wild. Anyway, thank you so much.
We could we'll have Alisa back for another
many more long conversations over in the coming
years because I just get lit up every
(56:50):
time I talk to her. And hopefully, you
did, too. We love talking to you, too.
And Hey. And, we're gonna go out for
a hike soon. So we'll continue this. And
thank you. Thank you. Thank you. You know
what? Words of wisdom, like, you don't need
to be perfect. Take the mindful, intentional, positive
steps forward and just make life a little
bit better every day for your health, for
your joy,
(57:11):
for your community,
for your planet. So thank you. Awesome. Alright.
Thanks, Jessica.
This has been a production of BLI Studios
produced by me, Kai. Follow along with our
(57:33):
other BLI produced shows at balancinglife'sissues.com/podcast-bli.
Got an idea for the show? Email me,
Kai, @balancinglife'sissues.com.
And don't forget to stay in touch with
your host, Jessica, at jessica@winwinwinmindset.com.
Anything else to add, Miles?
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