Tails of Resilience Part 2: Saving the Tasmanian Devil with Dean Reid of Aussie Ark (Ep 45)

This is Part 2 of our deep dive into the world of Tasmanian devils with Aussie Ark’s Dean Reid. In this follow-up conversation, Dean shares even more insight into breeding programs, marsupial behavior, and the critical role community involvement plays in preserving Australia's unique wildlife. We explore the impact of introduced predators, the power of celebrity influence in raising awareness, and the sustainable management strategies that keep Aussie Ark running. Dean also discusses how understanding animal behavior can foster deeper human-wildlife connections and emphasizes that conservation is a collective responsibility. Whether you're passionate about protecting biodiversity or just curious about Taz, Tasmanian devils or marsupials, this episode is filled with practical wisdom, inspiring stories, and hopeful solutions.

Episode Transcript

(00:04):
Hey, it's Jessica Morgenthal. And I'm here with
resilience gone wild and my awesome producer
Kai Sorensen, who, by the way, did one
unbelievable
job. He always does, but now he set
a new bar
for Thank you. These episodes, for the episode
that just dropped on Tasmanian Devils and that
we're here to talk about with Dean Reed.
And the soundscape is just incredible. So,

(00:27):
you you gotta take a listen to the
first Yeah. Please. One of this episode. Right?
Thank you so much. And, yeah. This one
was a lot of fun. Again, went and
did a little bit of research on what
is the the music of Tasmania, specifically folk
music. And,
so, yeah, there's just there's some elements incorporated
to kinda help to bring it there. So,
appreciate it. It was a lot of fun.
And shout out to Aussie Arc who allowed

(00:48):
me to take the sound bites of the
devil screaming you can hear at the beginning
is is from Aussie Arc, and they they
allowed us to kinda use that audio, which
is super fun. I cannot I did not
realize that, and I can't wait to throw
that back out to Dean Reed and thank
him for it myself.
And that's who we're here to talk about.
Yeah. Speaking of in this fear. Yeah. Yeah.
So it was a long

(01:08):
process of getting a hold of Dean. You
would take our listeners a little bit through
what that was like. Yeah. Well, honestly, the
way we started was it was gonna be
really cool. Tazmany Devils was an early episode
in the planning
because it's just such an amazing concept that
they store this reserve of energy in their
tails and,
and that their My favorite Looney Tunes growing
up because of Space Jam. Right? Exactly.

(01:31):
And, you know, it's been around for a
long time, so anybody who's ever followed cartoons
knows Taz.
And,
I had early in COVID, when they were
starting to release some of the Tasmanian devils
out of Oseark,
they had a couple of stars involved,
in the release,
Chris Hemsworth
and,

(01:52):
Zac Efron got involved. And I first reached
out honestly to get one of them and
heard nothing. I don't know if that's called
ghosting or Oh, really? Right? Just being neuro,
but they'll be sorry because we got Dean
Reed.
So we went, you know, I went for
someone who actually really knows what's going on
and really has been involved in this amazing,

(02:13):
amazing process to save the Tasmanian devils. And
can you imagine if Taz
disappeared? Like, that would be just tragic. So,
yeah, it was a great find and a
great conversation, and what a lovely guy. So
I'm going to Australia next year,
and I just looked up how far it
is. It's like a four and a half
hour drive to the sanctuary to meet

(02:34):
the real Tasmanian devils at his, at Osea
Arc
from Sydney, so I'm hoping to get there.
And,
this was a lot of fun. So, yeah,
what were your thoughts? Yeah.
No, I mean, just of course editing these
interviews is always well, sitting in and editing,
it's it's always just so inspiring that, you
know, the people we connect with are just
such a deep,
honest, genuine love

(02:56):
Yeah. And appreciation for what they do. And
I think, you know, you'll hear early in
the episode, you know, Dean's
transition out of not a good situation where
where he was and the Tasmanian devil, to
his word, saved his life. And I think
it's just a really special thing, and you
could see it in his smile. You could
see it in the stories he tells.
So, again, in the show notes, we're gonna

(03:16):
include
videos to the kind of some of the
celebrity stuff that went viral for for Aussie
Arc.
In addition, donations. You know, anything helps Aussie
Arc,
keep keep their mission alive and thriving.
So we'll we'll include some links there.
And of course, you know, just
a shout out to conservation in general, and
it's not just about Tasmanian devils there, so

(03:37):
make sure you go check out the, their
website and follow and give them some love
on YouTube and all that. Yeah. And and
just to go back to something you just
said about, you know, him, it the Tasmanian
Devils kind of saved him, the opportunity to
get out of a dark place that he
was in.
You know, we've we talked to Phil Richmond
about getting out of a dark place and

(03:57):
and and the psychology around that and And,
upcoming in season two, so we wanted to
throw a few names.
And one of them is gonna be Richard
Louv, who is the founder,
creator,
researcher, all who identified nature deficit disorder.
And the opportunity
to turn life in such a more positive

(04:18):
direction by connecting with nature and the lack
of nature that leads to
a real deficit in life and in joy.
So that's gonna be really cool. We have,
we have Richard coming up. We have Fermentation
and Grapes with Marta Mandanca.
These are all in the they haven't been
recorded yet. These are all in the pipeline,

(04:39):
and all have agreed.
What else we got? We have a ton.
We'll be we'll be rounding out season one,
which is crazy to think that a year
ago or so, you and I started connecting
about this, and here we are. But we're
rounding out season one with Shark Week, of
course,
one of my favorite, animals,
out there.
And, so why can't we go out on

(04:59):
white on the great white shark because that
was the Jaws. It's the fiftieth anniversary of
fiftieth anniversary. Of the film of joys. Do
you remember where you were when you saw
Jaws for the first time? Not. Do you?
Yes. I was in my living room with
my sister. We were probably, like, seven and
eight. And I think it was a movie,
a VHS tape. We we probably weren't
old quite mom and dad were probably working.
I don't know. That

(05:21):
but we got ahold of that tape, and
I didn't get through it. I think we
turned it off pretty quickly. But later later
on, I did I have I have seen
it. It's it's a great movie, actually. Something
I'll probably might go watch this weekend just
because I don't know if Lise has ever
seen it. She probably hasn't. So Oh, fun.
Yeah. It's a fun movie, and and it's,
you know,
quite a bit of the work that Kai

(05:42):
and I are doing and that Resilience Hunt
Wild does, which is and that there you
know, so many people on the community that
we live in, that I live in,
are trying to redefine
the negative stereotypes Yes.
Of species that have gotten a, you know,
a real bad bill from
media and from myth. And, like, we need

(06:03):
to love sharks. And there was
an amazing guy who just swam around Martha
Stewart. Sorry, Martha's Vineyard.
And to prove that and that's where Jaws
was filmed
to prove that sharks can, you know, really
aren't looking for humans. He said it was
a little scary from what I gather in
the posts. But,

(06:23):
that it, we need to to relook at
these species that we have denigrated and created
just pure fear out of so that we
stop killing them. Like, we stop going after
them and and deciding that that we can
dominate them and that we don't care about
them and that that
Full circle, back to the the Tasmanian devil.
Right? A lot of destigmatizing
of of the word devil. Right? Yeah. But

(06:44):
quick Martha Stewart story. So, like, three or
four years ago, my wife and I went
to this wonderful restaurant called Goosefeather. It's in
Tarrytown.
It was, like, date night. It's like we
had had a little bit of cash to
spend because that's that kind of restaurant and
just enjoying, like, this incredible
it's like fusion Asian
bar food. I know it. Yeah. That's just
yeah. Okay. Yeah. So and

(07:06):
having a dumpling in my mouth, and I
look over, and who's floating?
Literally floating through this restaurant That's awesome. Martha
Stewart in an entourage. And I was like,
I think we're in the right place if
she's just casually hanging here. So
but,
anyhow, let's hop over. We got an awesome
email that I wanted to read from Dan
Yessa. Is that his name? Yeah. Yeah. And

(07:27):
what's the connection there? You know what? It's
another one of these amazing people that I
met on LinkedIn. I honestly have thousands literally,
thousands of really interesting, cool people, and I've
started to be in really deep conversation with
quite a few of them, which is very
time consuming, but super, super light light up
time for me and leads to all kinds
of cool things. So Dan and I I

(07:48):
sent Dan a link and said, you know,
to the Indigo episode, which is all about
superpowers
and not hiding your superpowers because our world
needs you,
And he listened to the episode, and he
wrote this beautiful,
review on an on email back. So thank
you on messaging, actually.
And I so appreciate it, Dan, and looking
forward to hopefully getting you on a podcast

(08:10):
some day. Yeah. Absolutely.
So I'm gonna read the email real quick.
I hope you're doing great. I just wanted
to share that I recently listened to the
podcast about Indigo, and it was amazing. I
absolutely loved it. As luck would have it,
I was in my editing studio when I
listened, and the sound quality was impeccable.
Thank you very much. I'm not typically a
podcast fan, but I can say that today,
I opened my Apple Podcast app for the

(08:30):
first time in almost a year. The calm
voice, Jessica, the rich storytelling, Jessica, made it
a fantastic experience. Everything about it was well
done. Thank you for sharing this with me
and your kind words of encouragement. I hope
it reaches more people and makes the flames
of inspiration
in their spirits. Wow. What what a wonderful
message and what a wonderful reminder that taking
a moment to subscribe,
to give us a star rating, and to

(08:52):
leave a comment Yeah. Is how we play
the algorithm game. It's how we get this
message to to more ears organically
and as we continue to build this resilient
nature world. So Yeah. And just as a
shout out to Dan, like, you know and
when we look at the map of who
listens to our podcast,
he's in Uganda. Uh-huh. In Gaza, in the
ERC.

(09:12):
Right? So, like, you know, the the colors
light up on the map all over the
world that that we've got a following,
across the globe, which is just so cool
that we're touching people's hearts. Yeah.
Awesome. Okay. Well, should we get to the
interview? Yeah. Alright. Enjoy, everybody.
Welcome, Dean Reed. I'm so excited that you're

(09:33):
here from Oussi Arc. I have been I
and I have been looking for someone to
talk to about Tasmanian devils for about six
months since I wrote the episode about the
resilience tool of building up fat in your
tails and
the fun of a Tasmanian devil that I
saw in the back of a car, like,
the the back windshield of a car one

(09:54):
day and thought, this has to be a
really cool animal to learn about. Welcome. Dean
is the operations manager, if I have it
right, at Osea Arc, which but but tell
us more. And and we're recording this at,
you know, Australia time,
New York, Florida time. We we we found
each other at a convergence point, which is
great. And thank you so much for making

(10:15):
the time to be here. So we really
appreciate it. Thanks for having us. It's, keeping
me inside. It's a cold day up here
in the Barrington Top, so I'm inside with
a fire on. So thank you for that.
But Yeah. Yeah. No. I've, been working with
animals, I think, for about fourteen years now.
But,
historically, I was in, customer service, like, in
bars and clubs in Sydney,
and I got to a point in my
life where thing. Right? Tasmanian devil in a

(10:37):
bar. Yeah. One and all to the next
as to speak. But, yeah, I just got
over that kind of lifestyle, and I sort
of, moved to the Central Coast to get
away from sort of Sydney and slow my
life down a bit. And Australian Reptile Park
was just around the corner from me. And
so I thought I could start volunteering there.
You know, I was 40 when I started
doing this. I'm now 55. Oh. That's so,

(10:58):
like, so important.
It's the same because I started this really
late as I started
at, like, 55, you know, to get really
into nature and really, like, build this as
part of this chapter of my life. And,
like, just the message that, you know, you
can always
dive in at a super deep level and
deeply connect with nature when you you know,
at any time in your life, and then

(11:19):
you just can't you can't change that path.
It just becomes
you're all all encompassing, you know, all all
consuming.
Well, it does. I I think, you know,
the, native wildlife of Australia basically saved my
life, I think, is a big tick out
of that one, getting out of Sydney and
not drinking myself to death. But, you know,
so I got into,
just volunteering to start off with. I was

(11:40):
like, oh, how can I help? I always
thought that you needed a degree or, you
know, a PhD to work with animals. I
sort of grew up on a farm when
I was very young, so I'm used to
being around animals, but I just thought it
was out of my realm and out of
my reach.
I sort of left school at year 10
in Australia, which is quite early, about 15,
and went straight into the workforce.
Mhmm. But, yeah, I just started working hard

(12:02):
there. I just volunteered one day a week,
and then I picked up another you know,
I started picking up casual stuff because I
worked in the customer service world and was
very,
very good at talking to people. I started
getting casual work very good and, very quickly
at the, you know, the tours,
kids to keep a program, so, you know,
showing all the kids around, and it just
slowly progressed. And I applied for a couple

(12:24):
of jobs there, and my main reason was
to go to the reptile park is because
I love koalas. Koalas are my first and
favorite, and then devils, obviously.
But Koalas are, like, classically cute. I mean
They are. Like
and have them at the reptile park? Yes.
They've got every they've got all the mammals
there. They call it the Reptile Park because
they've got, you know, you know, 300
other animals there and stuff like that. But,

(12:46):
my main goal was because I love koalas,
I wanted to be able to get close
to a koala.
And so that started that love, and as
time went on, I actually didn't know about
devils, which is crazy. In my forties, I
didn't really know about Tasmanian devils at all.
The reptile park started breeding devils up at
the back of there to save them. So
in 2006

(13:07):
when the,
when they started seeing the decline of the
devil in devil facial tumor disease,
Tim Faulkner and John Wyble,
basically said, how can we help? So they
built 23 enclosures up the back and sort
of intensively bred. So very small enclosures, one
devil per enclosure, a female in one, two
males either side. And then when the female
becomes receptive, they were putting the male in

(13:28):
and sort of they grew very quickly. So
that's how I sort of got involved in
the devil while I was sort of looking
after them out the back of the reptile
park. But they got so big. Yeah. They
got so big that they bred so many
devils so quickly. They went, well, this is
untenable. We have to find something bigger. And
then they started building Aussie Ark in 2010
and finished it in 02/2011. It was called
Devil Ark back there, which was only nine

(13:49):
enclosures. We only started off with 44 devils.
And most of those come from other zoos
in captivity in Tasmania and Australia, so they
looked at the genetics and and popped those
in.
And you were able
to to start they were able to start
out with devils that didn't have that weren't
carrying the disease. So they were moved from
Tasmania to Australia to just start clean with

(14:11):
a to save the population, I guess. Right?
That's that's right. So Tasmanian it's a the
sorry. The Tasmanian devil program in Tasmania, which
is the Tasmanian government, started
breeding in small zoos, and this is how
the program started. Obviously, there's not a lot
of real estate at small zoos. The reptile
park itself only has 10 hectares, and so
it was taking up a lot of space

(14:32):
out the back. And so they thought they
could do better, and they started looking for
these big parcels of land. And anywhere between
a small enclosure, like, two meters well, four
meters by four meters to somewhere bigger, devils
will breed. And so they looked at a
couple of places. The Packer family, which is
one of the biggest families in Australia, had
a property up here and heard we were
looking for property. It wasn't a property that

(14:53):
we were looking at.
And they decided
to meet with us and say, we've got
this 500 hectare parcel that we're happy to
sort of give you
over the next hundred years under a, you
know, $1 lease or something like that. Oh,
that's amazing. So, I mean, there's so much
that you just said that's just so powerful
and important to
the way our you know, to way to

(15:14):
thrive
as a culture and a community and a
society. Right? Like, you know, care for those
who are in need
and do what you can to help. And
but learn about them. Them. Right? Like, there
was this unbelievable level of learning so that
they could breathe in a healthy way and
then care for them, find the amount of

(15:35):
space they needed because it it wasn't enough
and and that wasn't fair to them. And
then
look for generous people. Right? Like, look for
the generosity.
And I'm so curious. How do you take
the devils that are
kind of loose and running around a little
while looking for scavenging, I think,
and put them in a

(15:55):
massive piece of property like the 500 hectares,
and then I think it's triple that now.
Right? Or 50 5,000. How many do you
have? That's five we got 500 hectares, and
then we do have other properties, but we
haven't enclosed those yet. So but in that
500 hectares, we to start off with, we're
only using 35 hectares. So we've now split
them up into areas like SRU, which is
a species recovery unit. That's where we do

(16:17):
all our breeding. So that's just the small
like, they're still two hectares to four hectares
yards. They're very big. Got it.
Got it. And we only ever have up
to 10 devils in there. Inbreeding, we only
have eight, so four males, four females. So
Got it. They've got a lot of room
to do their own thing, and they do
their own thing. We don't intercept. You know,
they breed if they wanna breed. If they
don't wanna breed, then they don't breed. And
we just,

(16:37):
you know, we're just happy with what we
get on the other
end. Yeah. It sounds like the numbers work.
I'm so curious, though. Like, I was looking
up how they others built these hidden dens.
Do they do that in this environment as
well where they've got this space that's safe?
Yeah. So they do. And what we did
because in the wild, they would use anywhere
from wombat holes or down logs or they

(17:00):
actually dig their own burrows, but they look
for the easy way. They're not like a
wombat that can dig a burrow overnight. Mhmm.
They take about a week to get to
that point. So it's a lot of digging.
But when we cleared some of the fences,
we're very nature up here, and we wanted
to keep all the trees, but some fence
lines that had to go through
those trees that went over, we just piled
them up into a pile. So each yard
has about

(17:20):
six different piles, and then we dumped dirt
on top of it, then the devil will
give you their own. Made it easy. Yeah.
But there's also our wombat holes in the
yards,
there's fallen trees with log hollows, and they
sort of pull nesting material into there. So
they'll find their home,
and we've never had to redo them in
the eleven or fourteen years that we've,
been operating. They take good care of their

(17:41):
homes. They do. So I thought, you know,
the whole marsupial
reading
is so interesting. I mean, what I just,
you know, what I was learning about the
devils, which I think is common. I didn't
study other marsupials yet, but I think it's
somewhat common. Right? Like, they might have a
different number of joeys, but, like, we've got,
you know, these tiny, little,
blind, you know, like, tiny, little offspring

(18:05):
that are fighting for who can climb up
the ladder faster. Right? And and who can
just grab one of the four teeth faster.
Can you describe it? Because because I think
it's such an amazing,
inspiring
process.
Well, it comes down to a couple of
things. With, dasuurid, so I'll just explain what
a dasuurid is. Dasuurid is anything that eats
meat. So it would have been the Tasmanian
tiger,

(18:26):
tiger quolls, devils, eastern quolls, and then you
go down to your small little dunnats that
live in the desert. They sort of mass
produce joeys. They have about 20 to 30
joeys, and it's survival of the fittest very
early on. So first to the four teeth.
Quolls have six teeth, so six to the
tits win,
and the rest just fall off and die.
They're so small, they're a grain of rice

(18:46):
that, you know, then you can't everyone goes,
why can't you hand raise those? But they're
just too small. They're, like, just got a
head, two front feet, no back legs, and
they're like a pink little piece of rice.
So Wow. Yeah. It's crazy. So undeveloped. And
then they stay in the pouch till about
five months until they're fully grown, and they
they latch onto a teat. Whereas koalas and
the mac macropods and koalas and wombats,

(19:07):
they only have one joey. Koalas only have
one joey.
Macropods, which are kangaroos, small wallabies, they can
have
three joeys in cycle. So one in rested
development, so sitting there waiting. Mhmm. One in
pouch and one on foot. So drinking on
foot but still in the pouch. And she
has
four teeth. So That's a busy mom. That's

(19:29):
a busy mom. And they have, like, three
vaginas, I think, kangaroos. So they can, you
know, when times are good, they produce, like,
they just got one joey after the next
joey. So it's like, you know, the same
in our sort of environment. You know, when
times are good, you know, when the sun's
sun's shining, make hay.
Amazing.
I'm I'm curious, though. You said that that's

(19:50):
the way the carnivores
work. How is that is there a connect
do you know what the connection is between
that
reproduction process and the fact that they're carnivores,
not not herbivores?
Well, the carnivores are all dasierid, so they're
from the same family. You know, they've they've
evolved from that same, probably, one particular animal,
and so that's their morphology, I guess. Whereas

(20:11):
kangaroos have come from another side and are
herbivores and just to do a breeding process.
Oh, so interesting. It's so funny. Like, you
know, you live in this world of marsupials,
And we have if I have it right,
the only marsupials in The United States or
in North America are the possums. Possum. Possum.
And
we so don't understand

(20:32):
the possum. Like, we think they're, like, some
sort of in general, like, you know, in
the suburbs,
there's a lot of them. And we kind
of undervalue
the
amazing
benefit
to our ecosystems
of these animals. And
we don't really realize how unbelievably cool they
are, their thermosubials. Right?
Like, they're the only one we've got, and

(20:53):
we're under not paying attention to it. So
tell me about possums. Well, when I first
started at an erectile park, I didn't even
know that I thought Australia was the only
place that had mammals. You know, Papua New
Guinea does too, but we were so so
you can just think why is that animal
up there because we all used to be
connected at one point. So that's the remnants
of Yeah. That, you know, Australia is so
isolated and it didn't have these big carnivores

(21:15):
except for the Tasmanian tiger and devil that
all these marsupials exploded, whereas probably in where
you're from, you know, you've got bigger carnivores,
which probably picked those animals off. So the
possum was the only one that survived or
the opossum like that. But, yeah, they're they're
interesting animals. I have possums in my roof
at home, so,
different possums, but they're the same thing. And

(21:37):
I guess, you know, to me, I love
possums.
To my husband, he hates them. So he's
He keeps care of the house. Yeah. Get
him out of the roof. And, we've got
such an old house that you can't really
board it up. So, like, it's one of
those old cottages and so but, you know,
you I've got microbats in the in the
roof as well. So but, you know, I'm
for nature, so I'm like, oh, they're fine.

(21:59):
But, yeah, I I I presume the same
would happen in North America. You know what
I mean? They get up in the roofs,
they piss, you know, you know, they Yeah.
I have to say,
when I moved into our for our house,
and our kids were babies,
And it was a new house that we
had bought,
but it had
been it had been built by some builders,

(22:19):
but it was a spec house. And so
we didn't design it. We didn't know what
we were doing. Honestly, we had no idea
what we were doing. So we buy this
house, and quite soon after, winter comes, and
we learn about flying squirrels.
So flying squirrels
probably are like possums. They find a nice
warm place if they can get into a
house, into the roof. And it turned out

(22:40):
they hadn't sealed the dormers well. So there
was
there were numerous families in our roof, and
they were you could hear them, like, running
around on
above us, and they had no fear of
humans. So they were running down the staircase
and flying around the rafters. And there's squirrels
that just have kind of webbed feet so
they can leap really far. I grew up
in New York City, like, completely freaked out.

(23:01):
It was it was honestly a nightmare. Like,
and I can see how your husband, like,
has a problem with this. Like,
it's it's freakish. And you don't know if
they're dangerous, if they're gonna carry disease, and
you've got I don't know. But we need
to learn more about it so we can
live
in right? Because it is an old house,
or it's like we live in the country,
and we need to live with nature, not
against it.

(23:22):
And and and as you said with nature,
there's a couple of things you can do.
First off is build possum or little nest
boxes for your squirrels and put them in
your trees around the house that much prefer
to go in there than in your house.
And once they've relocated, you can, like, fill
all the holes up that you need to.
And it's just working with nature. Why are
they coming into the house? Because we destroy
their environment. We Yeah. Drop down their old

(23:42):
growth trees where they go into the little
hollows, and it takes eighty years for a
hollow to form. So, you know, we gotta
think about, okay, why are they doing that?
That's because we've created that.
Yeah. A 100%.
Yeah. Yep. So it's wild. Yeah. So Back
to possums. They only have one baby. So,
so they've only got two teeth, and they
alternate.
But they're, you know, they're they were introduced

(24:04):
into New Zealand. I don't know if you
know that. And they're a real problem over
there because they eat eggs and things, so
all their flightless birds don't have a hope.
So I know that they're trying to eradicate
them over there, but they,
yes. Possums are very good breeders. It's such
an interesting it's an interesting country. You've got
you didn't know you had mammals because there's
all these it's all birds and fish. Right?

(24:24):
It's like it's marine and birds, and many
of them were flightless
because they didn't need to fly to get
away from from predators. Right? Like, it was
like a whole it's a whole it's a
crazy different
ecosystem or multiple ecosystems. Do you wanna talk
about that a little? Because it's really interesting.
Well, I think, New Zealand was the last,
like, one of them the last continents to

(24:45):
sort of pop up. Do you know what
I mean? It's very new. And so the,
you know, carnivores and,
things like that never got over there.
Birds got there, and then, obviously, there's no
predators, so they become flightless. And lizards and
things like that float over on rafts and
things like that and survive and start breeding.
So Yeah. And the tuatara, which is like
a very ancient lizard that has, like, a

(25:06):
third eye on its head
Okay. Is, like a dinosaur, basically, over there.
So yeah. How why don't we know about
that? That is a really cool sounding animal.
Why do we not talk about the tuatara
with the third eye? Like, that seems like
such a spiritual thing with the third eye
of the It's like a
I I think it's a light sensor, but
they say it's a third eye. So it

(25:26):
can see, like, birds or prey are coming
across the head and and things like that.
Yeah. New Zealand has a very exquisite ecosystem,
and you've got these, you know, the kiwi
bird that's this flightless bird and the
and the kakapoa,
amazing birds species. And you we introduce these
things like
possums back in the day that you didn't
really know, like in the nineteen hundreds where
you think, oh, we just introduce this because

(25:47):
it's good for sport and and hunting.
It really wrecks an ecosystem.
Yeah. I mean, that happened with the tortoises,
with the rats and the goats. And, like,
it's just it's unbelievable what's happened to these
isolated lands, islands and and larger that
that
there's the there's no predators, and then all
of a sudden there are and destroys the

(26:08):
entire ecosystem. They're very excited about that. Doing.
With the Tasmanian devil in the program,
they started looking at islands around Tasmania they
could put devils on. And Mariah Island was
one of them, which is a lovely island,
but it has a a colony of little
fairy penguins and also geese.
And they thought, oh, they might have a
little bit of impact, but basically, I think
the devil absolutely wiped out the little penguins

(26:29):
on because they go foraging on the ground,
and they eat them, and they eat the
eggs. And so, you know, to save a
Tasmanian devil, fairy penguins are abundant, so they're
not threatened. That's the same story, Jamie, introducing
a predator that wasn't there before.
Yeah. Wow. So I'm thrilled to say that
we do have tentative plans to go to
Australia and New Zealand,
not this December, but in

(26:52):
2026.
Nice. And I saw on your website that
you can actually stay in this beautiful property
that the Packers
gave you, that there's some, like, Airbnbs or
or something there so that I can get
to meet the devil. So tell us about
that. Definitely. So, obviously, we're a we're a
charity. So going back a little bit, the

(27:12):
reptile park started Aussie Arc. After a few
years, we got so big, and the money
all was coming from the reptile park, you
know, their aging facility. They had to look
at their own structures and and start, upgrading
the reptile park. So we decided to become
a charity. So we fundraise all our own
money now. It's a big job. We always
are very tight on the ground with staff.

(27:32):
I've got about five or six staff on
the ground looking after 700 animals. It's it's
a big job. And and some massive amount
of acreage.
Yes. And some massive we, you know, we
get storms and trees down. We got expenses.
You just gotta be, as you say, resilient,
and you've gotta do everything. You gotta be
able to we're, you know, an hour and
a half away from the main town.
We're 100 and, 150 meters above sea level,

(27:54):
and we get these snowstorms. We get massive
storms. So we've got to really look after
ourselves. We're very connected to everyone up here
on the mountain. I probably know everyone and
every family along the road going back down.
That's what you have to. Yeah, because they're
they're your neighbors and they're they're the people
who are going to get you out of
trouble when, you know, something hits the fan.
Right. So, what's their what was their view

(28:16):
when they when you started raising
devils in their backyards?
There was a lot of we have, Diane
who she's, I think, 77 now. She does
one day a week, but she was bought
on basically, because she knew she was grew
up on the she was born up on
the mountain. So we employed her to sort
of invite all the farmers to come around
and educate them and, you know, come and

(28:37):
have a look at what we're doing because
there was a little bit of a bat,
you know, there was a little bit of,
animosity of us being up here. You know,
before the devils even got here, we got
a phone call saying, oh, I've seen a
devil eating a sheep. That's impossible because they're
not even arrived yet. So you get that
kind of thing. And once, you know, it's
it's taken 15 it hasn't taken fifteen years,
but fifteen years now
up here, we are very well loved. We

(28:59):
bring a lot of recognition to the area,
which then gets roads sort of done,
and things like that, which were dirt roads
all the way up here, and they're starting
to work on roads now. We the council
in Scone are very pro us because
and Gloucester and Singleton and Musselburgh, we're in
the Upper Hunter. We bring a lot of
tourism in. So people come here on the

(29:19):
weekend. We're open in January, all of January,
and it's a cheaper rate for families to
come up. And we do two tours a
day, every day, and one hour tours. And
that's just to show the kids, and that's
to get the kids involved.
And, you know, they're the next conservationists of
the world. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. But we do
we have accommodation up here as part of
that fundraising, and we, have two houses. One's

(29:40):
a massive house, and one's, like, a little
rustic old cottage. And then we do, like,
Devil's in the Wild tour where 20 people
from all, like, they just drive up the
day. They can do tours. And yeah. So
that's sort of our income for those areas.
But we actually have a head office also
down on the Central Coast where we have
a fundraising manager who goes to big corporates,
a marketing. We're very huge on marketing because,

(30:02):
you know, that brings the dollar in to
keep Aussie art going. And as you were
talking about resilience before, and then I don't
know if we've touched on the devil and
their
their tail. No. In their tail. We need
to talk about it. Yeah. Yeah. How they've
they, store fat in their tail. They eat
40% of their body weight, because they never
know when they're gonna get food. It's the
same for us, really. We have to be
years in advance to know that we've got

(30:23):
that money sitting in there for us to
keep going. So we know we've got marketing
people going out doing amazing stories, some great
corporate sponsors that are on board. And we're
always trying to be that fat tail three
years in advance to make sure that we
can function.
Which is incredible
because that is not the norm,
for a,

(30:44):
nature organization or a nonprofit. Like, it seems
like it's always hand to just from what
I've heard. Like, so often, it's hand to
mouth. There's so much that they wanna get
done
that every dollar that comes in gets you
know, has a place and it gets spent,
and the hope is that the next year,
they'll be able to raise
enough money. Yeah. But resilience is having the

(31:04):
reserves. Right? Like, it's so the fact that
you guys have three years worth of fat
in the tail
Yeah. Is just brilliant. So how did like,
that's good management. That's good leadership. Right? Yeah.
Tim, Liz, and Hailey, and John who all,
at the Reptile Park. So they work for
you know, Tim's the director. John Wigle owns
the Reptile Park. Tim's director, and they're slowly

(31:26):
buying into it. And so is Liz, and
Hailey is the curatorial
side of it. But, they're they work for
nothing for Aussie Arc. They've got their job
at the reptile park, and then under that,
they're doing stuff for Aussie Arc as well.
So they're always looking at they run it
like a business. Reptile parks run like a
business. Aussie Arc run like businesses. Yeah. And
we have 800 animals, so you can't have

(31:48):
not you cannot have money there and not
be able to feed animals. Do you know
what I mean? Yeah. Where they're where they're
You never know what can happen. Yeah. Where,
you know, they can't go anywhere. The food
doesn't come to them. We gotta bring the
food to them,
except for our big, enclosure, which, you know,
there's more enough animals in there to sort
of do their own thing. But, yeah, it's,
it's it's a fine balance, and I think,

(32:09):
management have done really well
to keep us in good stead. And we
have a, you know, and you've we've got
all these plans. We've got our plan. We've
got money set aside just in case things
things do go terribly wrong, and we've gotta
shut down. You know? There's all those things
in place. Well, in the middle of this,
you had COVID. Right? COVID hits. You've you've
got your facility. And I I just know
that I know I saw a video of

(32:30):
Chris Hemsworth and his wife. So, you know,
connecting with some voices that have some some
ability to amplify and and share and get
some publicity, I imagine, is is an important
aspect of the marketing effort as well. Oh,
definitely. You know, like, Chris Hemsworth bought we
went viral and around the world with that.
Do you know what I mean? So it's
very you know, he's a very lovely man,

(32:52):
and he's he's four animals and does what
he can. So we've, you know,
we when we can get those things, we
love having them, and we'll do anything to
get that person up here. Obviously, it's very
hard to get to that. Do you know
what I mean? Everyone's very busy Yeah. Trying
to get those big names up here. There's
Yeah. There's a million causes. Right? There's a
million strengths. I saw the Zac Efron show,

(33:13):
like, a year ago. Yeah. That he was
up there also. I think he was he
up there with you where it was I
was up with him actually. COVID. Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah. They were filming,
their series on Netflix,
and came through. And we do get a
lot of stuff. Everyone seems to come to
us, which is we have the largest population
of devils on Mainland Australia, which is 200.

(33:34):
We know the devil really well. So we
do get a little we do get big
companies coming to us like, Nat Geo wanting
to do stories. And that's a fundraiser for
us as well. You know what I mean?
I think we're next Fund friend and everything
else. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. In, September, we're doing
a whole story on devils for a month,
and that's a lot of time. It's gotta
have our staff

(33:55):
to be with film crew to make sure
that they're not getting, you know, attacked by
a devil. Yeah. Safety reasons, making sure gates
are shut. Obviously, we don't want devils.
If they if someone doesn't shut a gate,
we got male and female mixing, then that's
a whole horrible story.
Yeah. We don't want breeding because genetics are
looked at very closely for the devil. Yeah.

(34:15):
We pick the best genetics just to keep
that line going. So yeah. It reminds me
of I was in Iceland a handful of
years ago and, you know,
getting National Geographic in
to invest a month in a project is
quite the coup, as you said. And there,
there is there's an extinct volcano and they
built the only access that you could go
down an elevator into the into a volcano

(34:38):
and see what's inside a volcano.
It's like all the incredible
color of the rock and everything else. So
and that was only because National Geographic you
know, wanted to do a series or a
film on that volcano. And now it's been,
you know, a real coup
for Iceland to have that as a tourist
spot and to have that

(34:59):
access to something so unique. So I imagine
that's that's awesome that you're gonna have something,
you know, pretty special that comes out of
Yeah. They're spending a month with you.
Yeah. Well, there's only one place in Australia
you can really do. You can't even go
to Tasmania and do that kind of thing.
Do you know what I mean? So there's
not many devils left in the wild, and
trying to get a wild devil to come
in is quite hard where we have plenty

(35:19):
and we know how they act, and we
can, you know, make it look however they
want it to look. So Right. Exactly. So
in Tasmania where they've been,
dealing with this this horrible, you know, Tasmanian
cancer,
have they have dwindled to very few? Is
that They reckon in
1996,
there was around about 350,000

(35:40):
to 400,000
devils, and we're probably down to 8,000 devils
in the wild now. Wow. And they all
died and torturous.
Yeah. If it's gone from,
the East over to the West, so Northeast,
and it's just, it spread right across. And
where it slowed down was the the mound
there's a mountain range on the West into
really clean, fresh habitat.
It slowed down a little bit. Devils can

(36:02):
travel, especially males, and they're the ones that
sort of transmit it because they're but, you
know, they're aggressive when they're feeding.
When they're getting a mate, they bite the
female. So if they've got a viral if
they've got a tumor on their face and
they've got a viral load of thousand in
their mouth and saliva and they bite and
pierce the skin, it's transferred straight away. So
it's now just crossed over that mountain ridge
and it's in the clean population. Of devils,

(36:23):
so you know, they'd say it's a fifty
year project. It will go through the population
like wildfire,
and that's what Aussie Arc is really important
to do is to hold that genetic
wild diversity.
And there's 37 other zoos involved, but they
probably have, you know, five or six devils
at the max. I think there's some in
The States. I think the San Diego Zoo
has some and a few other ones in
The States. They're mainly we just sent 20

(36:46):
out to back to Tasmania to go to
other zoos. So some went to Toledo Zoo,
since some went to Prague Zoo, some are
going to Singapore and San Diego, I think.
But they're more
they they don't breed over there. The only
country that's allowed to breed is, Norway, which
is is it Denmark, which is Queen Mary,
which is a Tasmanian. Somebody just told me
that that there's a they were given as

(37:07):
a gift in
a long time ago and that there's a
real population there. Yeah. And the rest in
around the world are just ambassador devils because
people really don't know what they look like
and what they are. So, you know, for
instance, Looney Tunes has this devil spinning around,
it's not even the right color, and so
where that came from was they went to
Tasmania back in the day, which would have

(37:27):
been in the nineteen hundreds,
and the enclosures used to be very small,
so like a little box, And that is
a devil spinning around or going around and
around is stereotypical behavior. Oh my god. Got
spinning down. You mean when they're under stress?
Yeah. Because Like, they were it's like the
pace like an animal that's pacing in a
small cage. Like, they're spinning out of stress.
Yeah. They're just turning they're basically because the

(37:50):
yards are so small, they're just going around
in a circle, which mean looks like they're
spinning. So that's where that sort of come
from. Wow. Tell us more about the connection
between Taz and how that even started. Like,
you know, I mean, I don't think anybody
even knows there's a real Tasmanian devil that's
an animal. Like, it's just been a Looney
Tunes character for,
what, fifty or sixty or seventy years or

(38:11):
something like that. Like Yeah. So it's it's
come from the guy who came who did
Looney Tunes and saw a devil and put
that in because it's such a cool creature
and probably never seen it before, and people
not really knowing that it's probably a real
devil, you know, a real animal. And, you
know, before I started, I didn't really know
about so we didn't really advertise devils that
well back, you know, fifteen years ago. Now

(38:33):
it's getting a lot better. We're sending, you
know, Tasmanian government is sending devils out all
around Australia.
So people have a real love for them
because they are a beautiful animal. And they're
very,
they they have this,
persona that people get wrong, like aggressive animal.
Yeah. They can bite. They've got big teeth.
But they're, you know, they're like a little
dog. They run around. I can go into

(38:54):
a yard. If I don't have food in
my hand, I can walk around the yard.
They'll come up and sniff your boot and
walk away. It's all about the food. It's
all about Yeah. Refilling the fat in their
tail. Otherwise, there's no reason to be aggressive.
And you're not a potential mate. I assume
they can tell the difference. I hope so.
So do you guys have a relationship, or
is it gross get is somebody creating one
between real real Tasmanian devils and Looney Tunes?

(39:17):
That would that could be a real Yeah.
Yeah. We've, marketing of I think looked into
it before, but, I don't think it's very
we've done a couple of interesting things to
try and get the devil out there. We've
worked with one of our like, it would
be, your, Costco over there or something like
our Kohl's, our supermarkets Yeah. Wow. To get
the devil and all our native animals onto
tissue boxes and every tissue Right. Yeah. Every

(39:38):
I have those tissue boxes.
We get 5¢. So, things like that. We
we try and, you know, we're always trying
to think outside the box and trying to
get more, those as the charity money in
and to to work with those kind of
things is amazing.
Oh, it's so clever. I don't think I've
ever looked at the whole Looney Tunes side
of it. It's so funny that it's still
a popular
character in, like, the next generation of children's

(40:01):
lives. It's they've kept it going. It's it's
such an entertaining, unique character that makes you
laugh. So it's sort of a funny thing
because they're not really funny animals, are they?
Like, do you find yourself laughing? Or
they can do some silly things. Yeah. Like,
I have a hand raised, I think, about,
40 devils in my lifetime. So I've had
them as babies at home, and they run
around and they they're they're little kleptomaniacs,

(40:23):
so they'll
heal everything. If you've got a pair of
jocks or a remote remote control, they'll steal
it and hide it under the couch.
Oh, really? Yeah. They get this little cheeky
they they, you know, they love play when
they're young. And so they're running around and
their tails up with a little question mark
so it curls over. Means they're into trouble
when they're into something. Oh my god. That's
awesome. Just to be able to spend enough

(40:44):
time, and I talk about this all the
time in my podcast, that you need if
you spend five minutes with them, you kinda
see them just as they are, right, the
factual, what they look like. And then you
spend twenty minutes with them, and you might
get to see them with the question mark
tail and being
being clever and being devils. And it's just
taking particular monkeys.
Yeah. But the amount of time that you

(41:05):
spend with them, like, you've got this unbelievable
awareness of their behavior and what's going on
in their in their minds. What's going on
in their minds? Like, what do you think?
Do you ever think about that? I think
their whole mind is, they like to sunbake
during the day, and they'll spread out and
get their their own. Literally enjoy being in
the sun. They love it. Yep. They love
water. So anywhere there's a water, they'll be,

(41:25):
like, even if it's a muddy like, in
the height of the day, they'll come and
splay out in the water and roll around
in the mud.
They're very clean animals. They'll be cleaning themselves
all the time. So it's mainly food, reproduction,
you know, those kind of things, which is
a devil's mind. But it's not really protection.
Like, they're not worried about safety, so they're
not spending their time worrying about hiding. Right?

(41:47):
No. So devils, like, a cohort of devils,
we keep five or 10 males in a
yard. And so when you bring them up
together and they haven't been in breeding, they
live together very, very well. They have all
these cues. So they've got about 14 different
vocalisations.
When they come into food, we can only
hear about four or five of them. And
so they've got these social cues. When they

(42:08):
come into food, they'll sniff, and so they'll
clear out their nasal passage to get new
scent in, but it also works as deescalating
tension. They'll
when food's low and they start fighting, they'll
bridge. So their
front feet come together, they stand up, their
faces are together, their whiskers are touching, they're
growling,
and it looks like they're about to punch

(42:28):
on, but then that deescalates the situation. When
a devil comes up to you and I'm
in a yard and they're going,
that's more of a curious, like, hey. What's
going on? What are you doing? I'm being
curious at what you're doing. When they do
a jaw slap, it's like, I thought they're
nervous. They're like, I don't like this situation.
So can you please move away? And then
you've got the guttural scream, which is, hey.
I'm coming in full tilt boogie.

(42:48):
Get get out of the way. Get out
of the way. But yeah. Then they have
all this infrasound that we can't hear.
Have you done how do you know that
it exists? Have you,
So
Kelly used to, Kelly, who worked for us
for six years,
when I was here in 02/2013,
so I've been back and forward through, you
know,
year in the Reptile Park. So, you know,

(43:10):
I did 2013
to '16, went back to the Reptile Park,
and was head keeper there for 2016
to,
2000
I've been back three years as operations manager.
So back and forward Mhmm. She worked she
was a volunteer at the reptile park. She
was doing a master's on devil behavior and
used to come up and set recordings.
So one of the interesting things about that

(43:33):
was that we always used to say there's
a hierarchy in the devil, but there's actually
not. The hungriest devil will come in and
get food when it needs food. So, you
know, you might get an aggressive devil, but
he's not top of the run. If if
a devil's hungry enough, he'll scare another devil
off. But Wow. So there's not a hierarchy.
And when you have there's, like, six males
in the same group,
they're they're not playing any games like that.

(43:54):
I know. If you're hungry, you're gonna get
you're gonna have to, like, punch away and
get food. Same thing with mating? Like, if
if you want that female, you she'll Yep.
So, basically, in the breeding yards, we set
it up as we try and give it
what it is in a while. So it's
a five year old male, four year old,
three year old, and a two year old.
Two years old is when they first become

(44:14):
sexually mature. What that and then we do
a two two twos, a three, and a
four year old female. They don't breed typically
at five. You know, they're they're they might
have one joey here or there, but it's
sort of their time. How long do they
live?
To six or seven? Not very long. Oh,
that's it? Oh, okay. Yeah. In the wild,
probably five or six. In captivity, we have
them up to about seven years old. And
then so you're giving that whole,

(44:35):
picture of what would be in the wild.
Your young devils are a bit more timid.
We you've got your older males breeding, but
they're probably teaching the males Yeah.
What how how it all works and how
it all goes down. Amazing.
Yeah. And so in the wild, just another
little interesting thing, in the wild, you have
multiple entry dens. The female will go into
estrus,
which is in late February, then she has

(44:56):
a month off, then it's May, then she
has another month off, then she can go
June, July. So if she doesn't get pregnant
the first time, she'll go through two other
estresses.
Oh, but she stops for a month and,
like, recoups and Recoups. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And
then so she'll go into four month, four
day comatose state. So she gets flooded with
all these hormones, and she becomes very receptive.
The male will come in and breed with

(45:16):
her. After four days, she'll kick him out.
So he'll then guard the den out the
front, but another male can come in from
another entrance and breed with her. And she
can actually sire multi litter sire. So two
to one male and two to another male.
I just heard about I mean, it I
know that turtles do that. They, like, store
bags of sperm from different donors and different

(45:37):
mates. But I saw somebody showed me their
two dogs that were born in a litter.
They were so unbelievably different, and she said
that dogs do that. And I guess there's,
you know, there's a relation,
anatomically
between devils and dogs. Like, it's the same
it's a mammal that's in some ways similar.
Is that kinda what's going on there?

(45:58):
Probably a lot of animals do it, and
we don't really know that they do it
because we haven't, you know, genetically tested their
offspring because you don't because they're in the
wild. So I would say, you know, a
few different species do that kind of thing.
That's awesome. Okay. So tell me, if you
can, like, do you have a couple of
funny stories? You had another funny story about
an interaction with a devil that I just
love the funny stories because I want people
to really appreciate what happens when you have

(46:20):
a relationship
that's respectful
in nature with
another species that what can come out of
that that
comes from really, you know, having a deep
connection? You got you got a story about
some devil that you had a really deep
connection with that did something
interesting or funny or something. My most connection
that I've had and I've hand raised a
few devils, but I've had a really big

(46:42):
connection,
with a female called Diva,
and she just really bonded to me. And,
normally, a devil, when you stop handling them,
they'll go revert back because they've got a
tiny brain. They revert back to wild. So
after about one and a half
years, we stop hand raise we stop using
our devils for tours and things like that.
And that's just knowing the animal. Do you
know what I mean? I'm always watching the

(47:03):
animal. I know how they react.
And at some point, like, you know, if
someone patting a doodle on the back of
the head is a dominant thing because the
males bite the females on the back of
the neck to drag them in. So you
know the cues. So when a like, for
instance, just recently, we stopped using one of
our females that I hand raised,
just because she started, like, going you know,
opening her mouth and not really doing anything,

(47:24):
but the mouth opening is, like, oh, I
don't really like that. So we stopped using
her because you never know. They are a
wild animal. They can turn around and give
you a little bite, and they can do
a lot of damage. But Diva,
we put her in a breeding, and she
had joeys, and she'd still come up to
me while I was doing my rounds. And
if I was at the water bowl, and
she would just sit there and lie there.
I wouldn't pick her up because she had
joeys, but she would just lay out and
come up into me and still go, hey,

(47:45):
I know you.
And that that that was still about five
years old. That devil would still do that.
Obviously, when you don't interact with them every
day, I wouldn't pick her up because she
could just turn around and bite you, and
they do have a very strong jaw pressure.
But just to sit there near the fence,
her to come up and just lay down
and some bake in front of you and
just say, hey. I'm here with you. And
and just to have that bond with an

(48:06):
animal was pretty special. Wow. So they they
raise their joeys and train and teach them,
and then they sort of separate.
Do you think that over time it's been
quite a few years already, but over time,
they are getting more and more used to
humans and are having are building a different
relationship or in this environment? Or is that
is that just an anomaly and divas just

(48:28):
a really special think that's an like, you
that's an anomaly. Like, other devils will come
up as still a female from two years
ago that she'll come up and sniff, but
if I put my hand near the thing,
she'll try and lunge for you. So I
don't know. I think it's an anomaly. Like,
we do change the behavior of the devil
when we work
in a small area with devils. So we've
got 200 devils in a small environment.
You're walking past them. You know? Although it's

(48:49):
35 hectares, that's small to a devil,
large to us. But, you know, you're driving
your cup you we've got little,
Can Am's.
We're driving those around. You've got food in
the back. They can smell it.
They're sort of like you know, we change
food around in different yards because they get
used to it. They know when the food's
coming. They can smell it from two kilometers
away. To avoid that. Like, you want them

(49:10):
to live wild. Right? You do change. You
know? For instance, we've got three boyards we
use for tours. Now we feed those during
the day, and they come out during the
day. But breeders, we don't, so you never
see them. And then the other devils that
are, like, breeders you just never see, which
is really weird. So it's all different
different things happening in different areas, very close
together, but the breeders, you never see.

(49:32):
The yards that you hold multiple males and
females, they'll come out. The females are a
bit more quiet. The males will come out
and feed whenever you put food out. In
the wild, that wouldn't happen. You just wouldn't
see a devil.
Right. They're they know better. But why do
they know better since they don't have predators?
Why are they shy? You know, just a
human. It's just their nature. Human walking past,
oh, it's a noise. I gotta run. Do

(49:53):
you know what I mean? It's just innate.
They got tiny little brains. For instance, one
of the things is they don't you know,
you might feed them every day, but they're
like, I've gotta eat. I've gotta eat 40%
of my body. So you gotta be really
careful because devils can get fat very quickly.
So we, you know, we only feed 400
grams per devil per day. But if you
got 10 devils, that's four kilos.

(50:14):
You know, sometimes you'll get a heavier devil.
We might have to pull out and put
him on a little diet. But, yeah. But
usually, they work it out. They've got a
lot of area. They run around all night.
They work, you know, they keep themselves nice
and svelte. You've been so generous with your
time, and I know it's it you've got
a day's work ahead of you, so I
appreciate that you're you're doing this conversation. But,
like, what were you blown away by that
you were like, wow. They do that. That

(50:35):
they're a very clean animal.
They have a lot of tolerance for people,
but just watching them, they'll sit up after
their food, after they're eaten, after they've gone
into, like, a bloody gutty carcass animal. Yeah.
I mean, they're scavengers, so they're not eating
meat meat. They need food. Yeah. But they'll
sit there and sit up like a meerkat
and lick their paws and clean their face.

(50:56):
Wow. And their little hands are like our
hands, and they use those hands
Like, they get the fur off. They get
the meat off. They'll use it to hold
meat while they're eating. Just those little things,
just to how human like that they can
be sometimes, you know, where they they've got,
like, a hand like us. They've got five
digits,
and they use them like that too. Wow.
Can they hold things? They don't have an

(51:17):
they have an opposable thumb that Yeah. They
can grab it. They they can pick up
meat and eat it. Yeah. Wow.
Wow. Or not like a full thumb, but,
yeah, they can But they can hold something.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Run off with everything. So if you're a
film crew and you're sitting there, I might
never leave anything on the ground, guys. I've
seen devils run off GoPro's and things like
that, and you never get them back. Where
do they put them? They're burying them? They

(51:38):
just go down in the hole, and they
probably stay there. That is so funny. I
can imagine if you ever dug up one
of those holes to see what's what they've
found in there. We've lost it. We, we've
put some camera traps up just to see
devil behavior, and you have to put them
up high. And I've had a couple of
staff put them down low, and they've just
taken them off the fence, and you've never
seen them again. They have $500 camera gone.
That is awesome. It's so cool. Okay. So

(51:59):
tell wrap it up. Tell us what we
can do to help LCR, to help you,
to help,
the
the animals like them that are suffering from
odd, you know, things
that are impacting their population that aren't
necessarily human connected. I mean, this is a
very different story of a threatened animal

(52:20):
than unless it comes from the environment, which
you can get. One. So I'll go with
Aussie Arc first. Obviously, we're a charity, and
if you ever wanna come and see us,
hop onto our website, which is, aussiearc.org.au.
See the amazing work we do and all
the beautiful animals because we don't It's a
beautiful website too, by the way. Thank you.
Yeah. We don't just do animals at Aussieark.

(52:40):
We have Conservationark, which is part of Aussieark,
but we're off grid up here. So anything
that needs power, like turtles, snakes, the broad
tooth rat are all kept down there. So
we've got about 15 different species, and that
takes a lot of money. So if anybody
wants to jump online,
donate a little bit of money, donate too
much,
come and see us, go on a tour,
state our accommodation, that would really help out.

(53:01):
Spread the word. Can you give us a
location? How far are you from where someone
might be visiting?
We're about five hours from Sydney. So you
would fly into Sydney. You could stay on
the Central Coast, which is about three hours
away from us, or you can go to
Newcastle, or you can fly into Newcastle, and
we're two hours. Mhmm. So not too far
away. It's like a bit of a day
trip. Yeah. If you stay here, you stay

(53:22):
a couple of days usually, but there's plenty
to do around this amazing countryside. And the
other one would be to do grassroots stuff
is look where you live, get involved with
your local community.
I don't know. If you have frogs there,
build a little frog pond out in your
garden. You know, if you've got a bit
of land, put up a nest box for
your opossums or birds or squirrels. You know,
looking into what you can do to help,

(53:42):
which doesn't cost a lot of money but,
you know, gives a lot of reward to
animals.
Yeah. And I always say pay attention. Like,
you know,
just be in their space without bothering
them. But, like, you know, if you create
a a pond or a nest box or
something that will draw
nature
to your location, and then you can just
sit and watch.

(54:03):
Watch. Yeah. It's amazing. Interfere, but, like, watch.
It's it's unbelievable. Like, words of wisdom. What
you came into this
from, like, you know, started in farming and,
you know, raised in a farm and then
left for decades
and then went back. Like, what is
was the experience
like
to suddenly

(54:23):
change your focus? You said it saved you.
Yeah. It was saved me. What can we
offer people that, like, gives give inspiration to,
like,
just
take on nature as a as a love.
I think you have to stop and look
at nature sometimes because that is very holistic
as in, okay. How do they do it?
Do you know they're not they're not burnt
like, they're not exhausting their resources. Mhmm. You

(54:46):
know, we've become a very materialistic world, unfortunately.
You gotta have the latest iPhone. You gotta
have the latest furniture. You know, do we
need to? And that's just you know, can
we lobby that unfortunately,
it's our society that builds that, and it's
companies and corporations that do that because,
you know, I had a fridge that my
dad had and still has fifty years later,
that still works. These days, it just doesn't

(55:06):
work, and it's it's all built in to
making money. So I don't know. It's a
tough one, and I think we're getting better
with it as a world
because we've only got finite resources.
Yeah.
Hopefully, we'll we'll learn it before we destroy
it. And and to your point, I think,
Sichile, you know, important that. Sorry. The good
thing about that is that even if we
do destroy it and we go

(55:28):
It'll set. It'll be back. World, you know,
the world will recover at some point. Yeah.
And there'll be just a different form of
it. I I say it all the time,
like, you know, something like, you know, 99.99
whatever percent of of nature of of animals
have gone extinct.
It'll the rest of them will still be
here. We won't. We're like the odds of
us surviving are the slim one. Yes. Which

(55:48):
might be better for the world. Which might
be exactly which might be better for the
world. But in the meantime, we're trying to
do our do something good to to help
it out. No. Thank you. And every little
bit helps. So thank you for having me.
That was amazing.
Yeah. That was fun. And thank you for
for being, like, the representative of the Tasmanian
Devil. It was it was,
an animal we were very excited to share.
So
My pleasure. Anytime.

(56:20):
This has been
This has
been a production of BLI Studios produced by
me, Kai.
Follow along with our other BLI produced shows
at balancinglife'sissues.com/podcast-bli.
Got an idea for the show? Email me,
Kai, @balancinglife'sissues.com.
And don't forget to stay in touch with
your host, Jessica, at [e-mail].

(56:40):
Anything else to add, Miles? No.