September 23, 2025 • 38 mins
In this episode of Restoration Beyond the Couch, Dr. Lee Long sits down with Sarah McDonald to hear her powerful story of addiction and the journey toward recovery. Sarah opens up about the challenges she faced, the turning points that led her to seek help, and the hope she’s found in healing.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long and today I'mjoined by Sarah McDonald for an
honest conversation aboutaddiction and recovery.
Sarah shares her story how heraddiction began, what it cost
and the help that made changesfor her possible her possible.
We'll talk about the turningpoints, the support that
(00:24):
sustains sobriety and the helpavailable to anyone ready to
begin again.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here.
All right well, welcome SarahMcDonald to Restoration Beyond
the Couch.
I'm so glad that you agreed todo this.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you for having me.
We've been friends for a verylong time and I'm so very long
time, so excited 2011.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, okay, so how like go take us back 2011.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So I got sober in 2010 and then went back to get
my LCDC, which is a licensedchemical dependency counseling
yeah um certificate and um.
Shortly after that I got a jobin marketing and pr and sales
and doing that for treatmentcenters and that's kind of what
(01:15):
stuck um.
That was my past life.
I used to be in sales andmarketing for general electric.
Um quickly became a thing whereI was drinking too much with
customers.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Like just at the happy hours.
It started that way.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah.
So let's see I was a hero child.
I did all the things I wassupposed to do, checked off all
the boxes, wanted to be a bigcorporate businesswoman.
When I grew up and worked fromthe moment I could.
When I turned 17, I believe Ihad my first sales job and then
(01:50):
all through college I did salesand marketing for the USGA, the
Valero, texas Open, and thenshortly after that I graduated
from college and then I got ajob doing it was an internship
slash leadership program calledthe Commercial Leadership
Program through General Electric.
So I moved to Houston and fortwo years learned every aspect
(02:12):
of the business from the groundup for General Electric.
So with that came a lot ofwhining and dining and being
with customers and I think Iglamorized it and they
glamorized it so much that itbecame just everyday life and I
was so young and a woman and itquickly caught up with me.
(02:33):
I learned later that I had thegenetic disposition to
alcoholism and my family membersdon't talk about this, but
they're pretty much functioningalcoholics.
If I were to look back, mywhole family has glamorized
alcohol from a very young age.
So I couldn't wait to drink.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So when you say glamorize, would you be willing
to give an example of what youmean?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, so I mean huge Hispanic family.
There was always large familygatherings, lots of beer and
alcohol involved.
It was a happy, joyous thingwhen family members got together
and there was always alcoholinvolved.
So naturally as a young childwe couldn't wait to drink, to
feel that.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
To be a part of that.
Yeah, to be a part of that.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Absolutely.
It was fun.
People were laughing.
It was just a part of my familydynamic from a very young age,
like we would give our aunts anduncles um beer from the cooler
at a young age.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
You were like the runner, you were the bar back.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Absolutely.
I didn't ever think about that,but yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Um so for me it's just go ahead.
Well, what's interesting aboutthat is is that it it's like the
, the glamorization part of it.
It's like there's really moreof like a relational part of.
It's like I want to be a partof.
You saw something fun.
You thought that, and it'sinteresting because was it?
Was the alcohol the fun, or wasthe alcohol what got um labeled
(04:01):
as the fun?
Does that make sense?
What I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Absolutely.
I think it was.
The alcohol got labeled as thefun and I wanted to be a part of
the fun from a very early ageand immediately I remember the
first time I ever got drunk.
I was very young I mean veryyoung and it immediately allowed
me to not feel some of thethings that I didn't want to
(04:26):
feel, and so immediately Ithought, oh, this is an escape,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, that's that's interesting.
So you, so you were at thiscorporate job and in in being
the hero kid is is the whole,the whole theme behind that is
is like I'm going to makeeverybody happy, yeah, and
what's interesting about thatrole in a family is very often
(04:52):
it's not considered what willmake me happy, absolutely Most
often and it's not all abouthappiness, but it's most often
overlooked of what do I need?
Where am I in this?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, often overlooked of what do I need?
Where am I in this?
Yeah, yes, very much peoplepleasing, achieving.
I did all the sports in highschool.
I was in all the clubs in highschool.
I got very good grades.
Like I said, it just carried oninto my early twenties just
checking off all the boxes towhere, when I graduated from
college and went into my firstjob, it was kind of like now
(05:26):
what you know, I'm 21, 22 yearsold.
What's the next step?
Um, and being able to like, Ididn't have a lot of those boxes
to check off because I hadalready achieved a lot of those
things.
And so then I've found myselfwith myself and I didn't know
what to do.
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, it's like you're showing up in the world
for everyone else and then, likeyou said, you all of a sudden
where am I in this?
And you're like I'm right hereand I don't know what the heck
to do with this.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would mask that withdrinking or friends or whatever
the case may be.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Just some form of avoidance.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Absolutely 100%, until I just learned.
I think I went through a reallybad breakup early on and then
that precipitated to justalcohol, alcohol, alcohol.
And I started doing it morning,noon and night and things just
got really bad to where Iactually passed out in my
corporate job and they found meand I took a leave of absence
(06:22):
and never went back.
And then I moved back home toCorpus Christi where I hadn't
been there since I was 18 yearsold and it was like taking 10
steps backwards.
I didn't have a job there.
I couldn't find a job that paidwell there.
I went back to my old people,places and things which a lot of
(06:43):
people from my hometown drank,like me, leisurely.
They fished and drank, huntedand drank.
A lot of my friends are now inrecovery, actually that.
I grew up with which I think isfascinating.
I was the first one in myfamily to actually get sober and
go through a program and reallylearn about alcoholism and have
(07:06):
been a voice you know for therest of my family, I believe.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
That's really, that's really a special thing because
that, having that many friendsin recovery and I know that what
we seek we tend to find right,and so if, if alcohol or
addiction does play a role inyour life, we are going to seek
and find those who are, um,what's the word I'm looking for
(07:33):
that join in that with us.
Yeah, you seek and you shallfind, Like you didn't you tend
to find those in how?
That's really a cool thing.
I think it's special thing tohave people in your life that
you have history with that arenow on a similar path with you.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I.
So I think after I went throughthat experience at my job,
shortly after that was probablylike two years I was in and out
of toying with the fact that Imight be an alcoholic, did not
want that shame, did not wantthat big A the alcoholic on my
forehead labeled I had a lot of.
(08:17):
I mean, we all do.
We have a little bit of an egoand there's just something to
having that word alcoholism thatI just did not want to be a
part of, and so it took me areally long time to actually
accept help, um, and being ahigh achiever, I didn't want to
admit the fact that that I hadthis problem.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Sure, and especially with the hero moniker, it's like
I have to make this worldbetter for you, forget about me.
And it's like now I'm doingsomething for me and I have to
stop and think like, is thisokay?
Is this okay?
Like I'm me having that a on myforehead, as you said?
I'm not saying that you did ordo, but having that sense there
(08:57):
it's like okay, wait, I'm not,I'm not heroing for you anymore,
and so now I'm kind of leftwith.
I don't know what my role is.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
That's why I had such a I think, just hard bottom is
because I didn't want to acceptthe fact that I had failed, you
know, and I had failed my familyand I had failed my friends and
they had looked up to me allthese years because I did
achieve all the things, years,because I did achieve all the
(09:27):
things.
And this was such a big blow tomyself and my family that it
really just hurt me to justadmit that I had a problem.
And so when I finally did, itwas like I was at rock bottom.
I was drinking a half a handleof vodka and just drowning out
my shame and my guilt, because Iwould wake up every day not
wanting to drink, thinking thatI could stop on my own, and then
(09:50):
the shame and guilt of all thethings that I was doing just
played in my mind and it waslike I was a hamster on a
hamster wheel, doing the samething over and over again until
finally I I had a seizure.
I tried to stop on my own.
After four days of stopping onmy own, I felt better and I went
(10:11):
to the store and I had aseizure and didn't know that
that could happen to you Again,had to learn the hard way, Went
to the hospital and shortlyafter that I accepted help and I
went to treatment.
I had an intervention done by agentleman in our field, Rick
Hubbard no-transcript and so Iwent to treatment down in the
(11:01):
hill country for 30 days and itchanged my life.
It was the best thing that everhappened to me.
Days and it changed my life.
It was the best thing that everhappened to me.
I'd never felt so loved andexcited about something and it
was just like I had to go.
I had to do the treatment thing.
I had to be a student again.
I had to learn how to staysober.
(11:22):
I had to learn what was ailingme on the inside.
I had to peel back a couplelayers and really find that
little girl and find who she isand what she wanted out of life.
And then, after I had thatexperience, it was just so
profound that I wanted to justscream it from the rooftops.
(11:42):
And so that's why I went backto school to be a licensed
chemical dependency counselorbecause I wanted to teach other
women and other people that theycould do this too, because I
remember how hard it was for meto say yes, I wanted to be that
voice, like Rick was to me tosay I don't know what you think
this is, but this is what it'slike, and so that's what I do
(12:03):
now.
I went back to school.
I started working in treatmentcenters getting people into
treatment in 2011.
And that's what I do now.
I went back to school.
I started working in treatmentcenters getting people into
treatment in 2011.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
And that's when you and I met and you were just
starting your practice and I wasworking for a treatment center,
doing what I still do today andgetting people into treatment
and educating them on what it'slike and educating families, and
so Thank you for sharing allthat, because I think that the
thing here that I see that issort of this universal red
(12:31):
thread through things, is that,for whatever reason, whatever
vice or or thing that we use toavoid, there's this time where
we show up in the world and it'sdo we show up as who we are or
do we show up with theexpectations we believe other
people have for us?
And even when we show up withwhat comes across, like in your
(12:54):
childhood, as positiveexpectations, like hey, you know
, I'm making fantastic grades,I'm having all of this success,
but it's like success for whoand success for what, and it's
like I'm showing up for you whenin reality, I think, like you
said, when you went to treatment, the thing that you really
grabbed onto was I have to knowwho my, like you said, your
(13:17):
little girl was meaning you.
You know, not your daughters,but because I don't think they
were yet right.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
No, but it's interesting because now, as a
parent trying to parent mylittle girl self through that
lens and seeing them, it's justso fascinating.
In fact, I have to be intherapy right now again because
as my girls are going throughthings, things are coming up
again for me and I want to dothings a little bit differently.
(13:48):
I want to show them a differentway than what I was shown,
which is perfection, check offthe boxes.
So I don't hound my kids aboutmaking good grades, like I
remember being hounded.
I don't make everything such abig deal.
I make it more their idea.
I hope to make it more theiridea.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I am competitive still.
But competitive is not bad.
No, it's not wrong.
And and I don't believe in bustossing parents and I believed
in that before I had children,but I don't you're it sounds to
me like your, your parents, aresaying like okay, like you have
to have good grades.
It's like okay, why, like?
(14:32):
Why do we ask for the things weask for Right, like I don't
think that fear or or the whatpeople would say are the
negative emotions Like thosedon't need to be avoided.
The question in my mind is iswhy are they there?
What can we learn from them?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And that's one thing that we were never.
We were never given theexplanation when we were younger
as to why we do some of thethings that we do, and, yes,
that's exactly what it is.
So now I try to be a little bitmore intentional in going a
little bit further in theconversation, or this, you know.
Or going back and apologizingto my kids after I make a
(15:12):
mistake and saying you know, Iwas in fear for X, y and Z.
This is why, and this is whyI'm telling you to do certain
things, and so just going alittle bit further in that
conversation I think for me isvery helpful and I think for my
kids hopefully it works.
That doesn't mean they're notgoing to face some of the things
that Heck no, and I often thinkabout okay, how will I know if
(15:36):
it works?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
And, in my mind, where I've come to at this stage
of my life and career is I willknow it works.
If you're willing to be openwith me.
We're going to make mistakes,we're going to show up in ways
we didn't intend to show up.
But if we can slow down and askourselves where am I in that?
What, what was I trying toaccomplish?
What was my motive?
(15:57):
What was you know?
Those types of things, it'slike, okay, now I understand
that, now I can move into it andwe can have a conversation.
It's like what you said, wheream I in that?
If you fuss at your kids in away you didn't mean to, it's
like, well, I was nervous or Iwas fearful, I was in fear for
all of these reasons.
Oh, there I am, because in somuch of our lives we overlook
(16:23):
ourselves and we look to theenvironment to tell us, oh, no,
I'm doing a good job as a dadbecause you, as my daughter, are
perfect, and it's like no, no,no, no, no, no, I'm doing a good
job as a dad If I know when youmake mistakes, we can talk
about that, we can walk throughthat together and that there's
an openness in our relationship,that when mistakes get made,
(16:47):
all right, let's deal with thattogether.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And the thing that taught me how to do that is
12-step recovery, which is whatI learned in treatment.
You know, you hear about12-step recovery.
You hear about, you know,people having to go through a
program to get sober and it's alot more a way of living than a
chore, and I think a lot ofpeople you know they don't want
(17:14):
to be an alcoholic or they don'twant to go to those AA meetings
or they don't want to go torehab.
That's why I use the wordtreatment.
I think it's softer and kinderand those things are things that
have helped me become the womanI am today, and it's an ongoing
thing.
Yes, you have to continue to goto meetings.
Do you have to go to themforever?
No, in early recovery, yes, buttoday I go because I want to,
(17:37):
because they make me a betterfriend, a better wife, a better
mother, a better employer.
It's not because I have to doit anymore and it's a place
where I can go to remember who Iwas, where I have come and who
I want to be moving forward.
And it's a constant reminder ofthe gift that I got when I got
(18:00):
sober, and so I just think thatthat's very important to share,
because recovery and continuingto do 12-step recovery 15 years
later I've been sober 15 yearsnow is something that's just an
ongoing thing, that helps mewith everything I do in life,
not just staying sober.
It's not about the alcoholanymore.
(18:22):
It's about my daughter makingme angry because she did it.
I don't even know what, yeahwhatever Right.
And that if somebody isn't in 12step recovery or doesn't have
the tools to share some of theirfears, some of their what's
going on in the world, that iswhat makes them go back to
drinking.
And if they have an outlet tobe able to call another person
(18:44):
in recovery, go to a meeting,read some literature, pray and
meditate like all the tools thatwe learn.
You continuously stay on thebeam and move forward in life,
instead of falling off andhaving that hard bottom that I
had to have in early, like whenI wasn't sober yet.
(19:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's interesting because I don't think that
that's unique to addiction.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
No.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I think that all too often we avoid things that are
painful and I I I conceptualizeaddiction as an avoidance and we
avoid things that are painful,we isolate, we don't have a
group of people that we know wecan trust, who we can be
(19:31):
vulnerable with.
That's one of the things, Ithink, that's unique and very
powerful about the anonymousgroups, the AA or NA or SA or
any of the A's oh wait, gottathrow that one in but all the
A's is that there is thiswillingness and expectation of
being at least transparent,maybe not fully vulnerable, and
(19:55):
that's okay, but we're going towalk together down a pathway
that we're all somewhat familiarwith and in that familiarity
we're going to hopefully not andI don't think any group is
perfect, because, you know,humanity is not perfect but
(20:18):
we're going to walk through thatin a transparent way that we
could offer some insight, someadvice, maybe just some empathy
with you know, I mean I I'veheard so many people say that
they, I went to a meeting and Iwas so moved by the speaker
because, oh my gosh, I've beenthere and it was unique and I
(20:40):
didn't think anybody else hadbeen there in that way and I
felt so understood and I'm likedid you say anything to anybody?
And they're like no, I satquietly.
I was like did you say anythingto anybody?
And they're like no, I satquietly.
I was like but you felt,understood, they're like yes.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Well, that's fantastic.
Well, and I think that's justthe way that the world is going
today.
We want to be transparent, wewant to be vulnerable and we
want to be empathetic and it'sbecoming cool to do those things
again.
Um, and this is, this is whatthe programs and the recovery
programs have shown us all along, but I think that it's.
I think Brene Brown is who kindof got it to be cool again.
(21:14):
You know, everybody was on theBrene Brown movement for a while
and it was really just peoplebeing transparent and authentic
and being heard and feeling goodabout it.
I mean, there's a power insharing.
Whatever you're going through,everybody has something.
They're going through Everybody, I don't care who you are.
There's no perfect person inthis world and whenever you
(21:38):
share it with another humanbeing, it doesn't give the thing
power Full stop.
And then the healing begins.
Whatever that looks likewhether it's going to counseling
, whether it's going to a 12step meeting, whether it's going
to treatment there's a.
There's a healing.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
When we articulate what's going on inside of us.
I keep, I keep pounding thisdrum of do I know me, where am I
in this and when, when, when wearticulate what's going on
inside of us there, all of asudden, let me back up and say
it this way when you go to likea campground and you're going to
(22:19):
go do a little hike, or you goto God forbid, like grapevine
bills, grapevine mills mall, andyou're going to do the big mile
hike around it is it a mile ora half mile?
I have no idea, I don't know,but it's a really long way
around there and you havesomething you want to pick up
and you want to be in and out ofthere quick, yeah.
Or you're on your trail and youdon't want to be lost.
When you look at the map, whatdo you have?
(22:41):
To know where you are?
And if you go to a mall or to atrail, it will say you are here
, and that's an orienting typeof thing.
But what we often miss is that,as the hero child, where, where
(23:02):
were you?
You were in everybody else.
You were pleasing mom, pleasingdad, pleasing family members,
pleasing teachers, coaches,whomever, yep, it's like where's
Sarah?
Yeah, until you hit your rockbottom and you were like here I
am and I don't like where I am.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
We don't know where we are on the map.
And when we find what's goingon inside of us and we can
articulate that outside of us,then we begin to recognize to
your point that's not ouridentity, it's just simply a
struggle.
It's simply something that'sgoing on inside of us.
We externalize it and then welook on the map and oh yeah, I
(23:41):
am here.
And then I know how to navigateand move around.
And it's like if I wanted to goto the Nike outlet and I start
in one place and the Nike outlet, if I turn left, is only you
know 15 stores away.
But if I turn right, it's thewhole mile around.
Well, I'm going to get superfrustrated that this Nike store
is so far away.
(24:02):
And why am I having to gothrough all these people at
Christmas or whatever?
And it's like no, no, no knowwhere you are so that you know
how to get to where you're going.
And when I know where I am andI know what my goals are, I can
get there.
It's like that's what to me itsounds like that's what sobriety
did for you.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I mean it cleared up your map.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
It was the best thing that ever happened to me, and
so I just I do what I do becauseI want other people that are
struggling to be able torecognize it sooner than I did.
Because it wasn't fun.
I was going in and out of AAmeetings and wrestling and
toying with am I one of them?
Am I not?
Didn't understand the messagingthat they were sharing with me
(24:46):
because I didn't know who I wasRight and God forbid me be one
of them, because that's bad.
It's like I was taught good andbad.
I wasn't taught like you can bea little bit of this.
You can be a little bit of this, it's okay.
I was just taught good, bad andI just felt myself as bad.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Exactly, that's a performance mindset, right, and
I don't think anybody who's.
I mean and I know you agreewith this yeah, anybody who
struggles with addiction is bad.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
No, anybody who struggles with anything is not
bad, but I think everybody who'sin the depths of their
addictions thinks that they are.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well, and I do believe that there are people
still out there that do perceiveit that way.
Yes, we look at people and we,we judge them based on their
behavior.
We judge the value of theirpersonhood based on their
behavior.
Yes, and I don't want to gettoo deep into that, but I do
think that there's a part ofthat that we need to really
question.
(25:44):
And, yeah, I think you're right.
So one thing that I wanted toget into, if you're willing, is
you, you are married.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And you know we've talked before like I know that
today that your husband is inrecovery.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
But that wasn't always the case, as you all were
together.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Nope.
So my husband and I gottogether.
When he was quote unquote, whatwe call a normie.
I thought he wasn't one of usand he saw me through my
addiction and recovery.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And, as an aside, a normie for those who don't know,
is a person who is perceived tobe able to drink in a normal
fashion.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yes, that's what we call normies.
So he saw me through the good,the bad and the ugly of my own
personal recovery.
We got married shortly afterthat, had kids and then a few
years later he got into his ownpersonal trials with anxiety,
(26:49):
depression, substance abuse, andI think a lot of that came from
his mom and his dad passed awayvery young, when he was very
young, and then he saw me goingthrough all of my stuff.
So he stuffed everything formany, many, many years.
He stuffed everything.
Had to be the one in control,the one in charge, and then left
(27:10):
to me being in recovery, mecontinuing to climb that.
I don't know if ladder is theword, but I continued to- To
sort through it authentically.
And positively.
And things started to happen inmy life where I was moving up
(27:32):
and he was stuck yeah with allof his feelings and his emotions
.
And so he decided he was goingto um use unhealthy coping
mechanisms as well.
And so I was probably six yearsinto this this field of um
recovery, working in this field,and he went through his own
struggles and I had to put himthrough treatment.
(27:54):
And it was a curse and ablessing, but the coolest thing
was that I got to show upauthentically with my boss and
with my peers and my colleaguesand say my husband's struggling,
I need to help him.
What do we do, whereas mostpeople and most employers would
probably see that as a failureor a moral failure, I get to God
(28:16):
already knew that I was goingto be working in this industry.
He knew what was going tohappen way before it happened.
And so 24 hours later I you know, I approach him.
I say I think you have aproblem, I think we need to look
into this.
This is not healthy for ourmarriage, this is not healthy
for our children.
You need to take action or I'mnot going to be here forever.
(28:37):
And so, within 24 hours, he wasin treatment himself and did
the deal, just like I did.
And now he I mean we are asober couple.
We show up as sober parentseverywhere we go.
That's a challenge in and ofitself, just because a lot of
people drink for everything thatthey do now.
(28:58):
But the coolest thing is that weget to parent from that, we get
to be husband and wife.
From that.
We have a lot of just commondaily practices that we do
together and we parent throughthe lens of a 12-step lens, to
where we're doing things.
And I think again, god knewthat that was supposed to happen
(29:19):
, because when it wasn't when Iwas sober and he was not it was
very, very difficult.
So anybody out there who'slistening, if your spouse is
still actively drinking or using, it's not the end of the world,
but you do need to take actionfor it, because it's-.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
If it's a problem.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, it's not easy.
I think when my husband wasstill actively drinking and
using, we had spouts as marriedcouples do and things weren't
working and things weren't goingright and we'd go to therapy
and it'd be a really greattherapy session, but he was
still actively drinking andusing and not telling the truth
(30:00):
about what was really going on.
People out there do that andhave that same situation happen.
Or people that come to you guyswho one person is telling the
truth and the other person's not, and they're spending thousands
of dollars in therapy andnobody's asking the underlying
(30:20):
question about how much they'rereally drinking, how much are
they really using?
Are they, you know, is one ofthem?
Does one of one person have aproblem with substance abuse?
Like you're never going to fix?
Know, is one of them?
Does one person have a problemwith substance abuse?
Like you're never going to fixyour marriage if one of those
people is not telling the truthabout their substance abuse?
And so that was our story, likethere was many years where
things were really hard andthings weren't good because one
(30:42):
person was, you know, just notbeing authentic and telling his
truth, not being authentic andtelling his truth until, like
myself, he hit rock bottom andour marriage was rocky and
things were out of sorts and Ibasically said I am not going to
be here anymore if you don't godo this.
And then, once that was done,very quickly things started
(31:03):
resolving.
He went and got help for histhing, but his thing wasn't
really his thing.
Like we don't really.
We don't go start using anddrinking because we want to be
alcoholic.
It's something deeper.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
There's always something deeper.
It's always, I believe, that itis.
Again, it's an avoidance, it isa.
It is a.
It's a.
It's a tactic to soothe, andthat's why I have such a problem
with people who say addictionis bad.
No, the people that I know thateither are addicted or have a
(31:40):
history of being addicted areusually the kindest, most
tenderhearted people I've evermet.
Absolutely and it's, it's, it's,it's a coping mechanism and you
know.
Going back to your commentabout telling the truth in a
therapy session, the difficultyis a lot of people I don't
believe know what's true becausethey're so avoiding that whole
(32:05):
map of where am I?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
And they have no clue .
They don't want to sit with thefact that you know to use some
of your husband's.
What you've said about him isthat I don't want to live with
the fact that my parents aregone.
I don't want to live with thefact that you know times are
tough.
I don't want to live with thefact that if I look into this
like if I stare this, what I'mdoing in in its face, then I
(32:29):
have to face a lot of reallydark like demons, ugly, things
that are anxiety, depression,and I don't want to face that.
It's hard, so I'll just livewith the fact that no, no, no,
it's all you and our tendency isis we put things out in the
environment and say theenvironment needs to change or
the environment will tell me ifI'm okay, when, in reality,
(32:52):
again, where am I in that?
Because the environment cannotdictate to me and that's a
really, really hard thing towalk through.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yes, 100%.
I love the way that youarticulated that whole thing,
because that's the truth behindgetting sober is you're going to
have to face super hard truths,but it's not going to be hard
forever.
I want people to know that it'snot going to be hard forever
and walking through that hardstuff there is such profound joy
(33:21):
at the end of that and itdoesn't have to go on for as
long as you think it needs to goon.
The sooner you go get help, thesooner you go find a therapist,
the sooner you walk into therooms of a 12-step program, the
sooner you go and say, okay, Ineed to go to treatment, the
(33:43):
sooner that you're going to findyourself and find that healing.
And then things start movingpretty quickly after that.
I mean very quickly.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, I've noticed that when people remain honest
with themselves, that's whenhealing really begins.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, and it's not just a linear like you don't
just go to treatment, check offthe box and be done.
I think that the greatest tooland gift that I was given was
being heard and and reallyaccepting and learning that
being heard is something that Idesired and I craved.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
We all do.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
So 15 years later, I know when I'm feeling a little
squirrely, I probably need tocall my therapist and start
going to therapy again.
And I don't always go, for, youknow, years and years at a time
.
I might go for six months for asituation and then it's like,
okay, this is, this is done.
And then you know, six monthslater, I'm rocking and rolling
and something else comes up andthat little voice, you know,
(34:42):
chimes in my ear like maybe Ineed to call my therapist, or
maybe I need to go to a meeting,or maybe I need to go to church
, I don't know.
Whatever it is, um, there'salways tools in my toolbox.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
There, there are tools available to people and it
like like to your point, whichI think is very well said it's
not always going to therapy.
Sometimes it's I need to go bewith a group of people that I
know that love me and and I cantrust and I love them back and
so I can go and be me, I can beauthentically me.
(35:14):
Sometimes it may be that I needto get up and I need to start
moving.
I find myself avoiding and I'misolating and I find myself
binging Netflix or whatever andit's like I need to get moving,
but it's it's.
This is, to me, why that thevisual of that map is so
critical is where are you inthis?
(35:34):
Why?
Because you intrinsically Ibelieve we intrinsically know
for the most part what we need.
Like you said, that still smallvoice that comes into you, that
comes into your head or yourear and says hey, sarah, it's
time for.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
And if you listen to that, hey, it's time to get up
and move.
Hey, it's time to go be withyour people.
That can be very powerful.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
So I just want to say for anybody out there who's
still struggling, who has aloved one that's struggling, you
can you know, like we've talkedabout, you can call Lee here at
Restoration Counseling and getinto therapy with one of the
therapists here Go to a 12-stepmeeting.
I personally work for LaHacienda.
If you need to go to treatmentor a higher level of care, you
(36:21):
can go to wwwlahaciendacom.
I'm always available, throughLee or through La Hacienda, to
be able to mentor and talk andeducate people on recovery and
what that looks like for youdoesn't mean it has to be going
to treatment, it might besomething else and I'm available
to just talk you through that.
And so just want everyone toknow that there's a lot of
(36:44):
resources out there and, likeLee said, figure out where
you're at on that map, figureout where you want to be and
take action.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yeah, thank you, sarah.
I think that people just don'thave to be alone in this.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
No.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And this is a taking a step of reaching out may feel
incredibly overwhelming, andwhat I, what I know, what I've
seen, is that when somebodywho's there, who's kind, like
yourself, that they reach theirhand out and they're met by you,
(37:22):
there's real healing there.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
There's possibilities there, and so, man, I just hope
everybody knows that there'shope.
Yeah, and it may be acircuitous or a loopy path, but
there's hope and you don't haveto suffer alone.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, and everybody knows somebody who is struggling
with a substance abuse or witha, and reach out to those people
, talk to those people.
I'm available to talk toanybody and tell my story and
share.
It's my favorite thing to do isjust share my experience,
strength and hope, what happenedto me, what it could look like
(38:01):
for you and it doesn't have tobe the same way that I did it
but let's figure out what way isgonna work for you and let's
take action.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Love that yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Thank you.
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long and today I'mjoined by Sarah McDonald for an
honest conversation aboutaddiction and recovery.
Sarah shares her story how heraddiction began, what it cost
and the help that made changesfor her possible her possible.
We'll talk about the turningpoints, the support that
(00:24):
sustains sobriety and the helpavailable to anyone ready to
begin again.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here.
All right well, welcome SarahMcDonald to Restoration Beyond
the Couch.
I'm so glad that you agreed todo this.
Speaker 2 (00:41):
Thank you for having me.
We've been friends for a verylong time and I'm so very long
time, so excited 2011.
Speaker 1 (00:49):
Yeah, okay, so how like go take us back 2011.
Speaker 2 (00:54):
So I got sober in 2010 and then went back to get
my LCDC, which is a licensedchemical dependency counseling
yeah um certificate and um.
Shortly after that I got a jobin marketing and pr and sales
and doing that for treatmentcenters and that's kind of what
(01:15):
stuck um.
That was my past life.
I used to be in sales andmarketing for general electric.
Um quickly became a thing whereI was drinking too much with
customers.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Like just at the happy hours.
It started that way.
Speaker 2 (01:30):
Yeah.
So let's see I was a hero child.
I did all the things I wassupposed to do, checked off all
the boxes, wanted to be a bigcorporate businesswoman.
When I grew up and worked fromthe moment I could.
When I turned 17, I believe Ihad my first sales job and then
(01:50):
all through college I did salesand marketing for the USGA, the
Valero, texas Open, and thenshortly after that I graduated
from college and then I got ajob doing it was an internship
slash leadership program calledthe Commercial Leadership
Program through General Electric.
So I moved to Houston and fortwo years learned every aspect
(02:12):
of the business from the groundup for General Electric.
So with that came a lot ofwhining and dining and being
with customers and I think Iglamorized it and they
glamorized it so much that itbecame just everyday life and I
was so young and a woman and itquickly caught up with me.
(02:33):
I learned later that I had thegenetic disposition to
alcoholism and my family membersdon't talk about this, but
they're pretty much functioningalcoholics.
If I were to look back, mywhole family has glamorized
alcohol from a very young age.
So I couldn't wait to drink.
Speaker 1 (02:52):
So when you say glamorize, would you be willing
to give an example of what youmean?
Speaker 2 (02:56):
Yeah, so I mean huge Hispanic family.
There was always large familygatherings, lots of beer and
alcohol involved.
It was a happy, joyous thingwhen family members got together
and there was always alcoholinvolved.
So naturally as a young childwe couldn't wait to drink, to
feel that.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
To be a part of that.
Yeah, to be a part of that.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
Absolutely.
It was fun.
People were laughing.
It was just a part of my familydynamic from a very young age,
like we would give our aunts anduncles um beer from the cooler
at a young age.
Speaker 1 (03:32):
You were like the runner, you were the bar back.
Speaker 2 (03:34):
Absolutely.
I didn't ever think about that,but yes, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (03:38):
Um so for me it's just go ahead.
Well, what's interesting aboutthat is is that it it's like the
, the glamorization part of it.
It's like there's really moreof like a relational part of.
It's like I want to be a partof.
You saw something fun.
You thought that, and it'sinteresting because was it?
Was the alcohol the fun, or wasthe alcohol what got um labeled
(04:01):
as the fun?
Does that make sense?
What I'm saying?
Speaker 2 (04:04):
Absolutely.
I think it was.
The alcohol got labeled as thefun and I wanted to be a part of
the fun from a very early ageand immediately I remember the
first time I ever got drunk.
I was very young I mean veryyoung and it immediately allowed
me to not feel some of thethings that I didn't want to
(04:26):
feel, and so immediately Ithought, oh, this is an escape,
yeah.
Speaker 1 (04:32):
Yeah, that's that's interesting.
So you, so you were at thiscorporate job and in in being
the hero kid is is the whole,the whole theme behind that is
is like I'm going to makeeverybody happy, yeah, and
what's interesting about thatrole in a family is very often
(04:52):
it's not considered what willmake me happy, absolutely Most
often and it's not all abouthappiness, but it's most often
overlooked of what do I need?
Where am I in this?
Speaker 2 (05:04):
Yeah, often overlooked of what do I need?
Where am I in this?
Yeah, yes, very much peoplepleasing, achieving.
I did all the sports in highschool.
I was in all the clubs in highschool.
I got very good grades.
Like I said, it just carried oninto my early twenties just
checking off all the boxes towhere, when I graduated from
college and went into my firstjob, it was kind of like now
(05:26):
what you know, I'm 21, 22 yearsold.
What's the next step?
Um, and being able to like, Ididn't have a lot of those boxes
to check off because I hadalready achieved a lot of those
things.
And so then I've found myselfwith myself and I didn't know
what to do.
You know.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, it's like you're showing up in the world
for everyone else and then, likeyou said, you all of a sudden
where am I in this?
And you're like I'm right hereand I don't know what the heck
to do with this.
Speaker 2 (05:51):
Yeah, absolutely.
So I would mask that withdrinking or friends or whatever
the case may be.
Speaker 1 (05:59):
Just some form of avoidance.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
Absolutely 100%, until I just learned.
I think I went through a reallybad breakup early on and then
that precipitated to justalcohol, alcohol, alcohol.
And I started doing it morning,noon and night and things just
got really bad to where Iactually passed out in my
corporate job and they found meand I took a leave of absence
(06:22):
and never went back.
And then I moved back home toCorpus Christi where I hadn't
been there since I was 18 yearsold and it was like taking 10
steps backwards.
I didn't have a job there.
I couldn't find a job that paidwell there.
I went back to my old people,places and things which a lot of
(06:43):
people from my hometown drank,like me, leisurely.
They fished and drank, huntedand drank.
A lot of my friends are now inrecovery, actually that.
I grew up with which I think isfascinating.
I was the first one in myfamily to actually get sober and
go through a program and reallylearn about alcoholism and have
(07:06):
been a voice you know for therest of my family, I believe.
Speaker 1 (07:09):
That's really, that's really a special thing because
that, having that many friendsin recovery and I know that what
we seek we tend to find right,and so if, if alcohol or
addiction does play a role inyour life, we are going to seek
and find those who are, um,what's the word I'm looking for
(07:33):
that join in that with us.
Yeah, you seek and you shallfind, Like you didn't you tend
to find those in how?
That's really a cool thing.
I think it's special thing tohave people in your life that
you have history with that arenow on a similar path with you.
Speaker 2 (07:54):
Yeah, I.
So I think after I went throughthat experience at my job,
shortly after that was probablylike two years I was in and out
of toying with the fact that Imight be an alcoholic, did not
want that shame, did not wantthat big A the alcoholic on my
forehead labeled I had a lot of.
(08:17):
I mean, we all do.
We have a little bit of an egoand there's just something to
having that word alcoholism thatI just did not want to be a
part of, and so it took me areally long time to actually
accept help, um, and being ahigh achiever, I didn't want to
admit the fact that that I hadthis problem.
Speaker 1 (08:35):
Sure, and especially with the hero moniker, it's like
I have to make this worldbetter for you, forget about me.
And it's like now I'm doingsomething for me and I have to
stop and think like, is thisokay?
Is this okay?
Like I'm me having that a on myforehead, as you said?
I'm not saying that you did ordo, but having that sense there
(08:57):
it's like okay, wait, I'm not,I'm not heroing for you anymore,
and so now I'm kind of leftwith.
I don't know what my role is.
Speaker 2 (09:06):
That's why I had such a I think, just hard bottom is
because I didn't want to acceptthe fact that I had failed, you
know, and I had failed my familyand I had failed my friends and
they had looked up to me allthese years because I did
achieve all the things, years,because I did achieve all the
(09:27):
things.
And this was such a big blow tomyself and my family that it
really just hurt me to justadmit that I had a problem.
And so when I finally did, itwas like I was at rock bottom.
I was drinking a half a handleof vodka and just drowning out
my shame and my guilt, because Iwould wake up every day not
wanting to drink, thinking thatI could stop on my own, and then
(09:50):
the shame and guilt of all thethings that I was doing just
played in my mind and it waslike I was a hamster on a
hamster wheel, doing the samething over and over again until
finally I I had a seizure.
I tried to stop on my own.
After four days of stopping onmy own, I felt better and I went
(10:11):
to the store and I had aseizure and didn't know that
that could happen to you Again,had to learn the hard way, Went
to the hospital and shortlyafter that I accepted help and I
went to treatment.
I had an intervention done by agentleman in our field, Rick
Hubbard no-transcript and so Iwent to treatment down in the
(11:01):
hill country for 30 days and itchanged my life.
It was the best thing that everhappened to me.
Days and it changed my life.
It was the best thing that everhappened to me.
I'd never felt so loved andexcited about something and it
was just like I had to go.
I had to do the treatment thing.
I had to be a student again.
I had to learn how to staysober.
(11:22):
I had to learn what was ailingme on the inside.
I had to peel back a couplelayers and really find that
little girl and find who she isand what she wanted out of life.
And then, after I had thatexperience, it was just so
profound that I wanted to justscream it from the rooftops.
(11:42):
And so that's why I went backto school to be a licensed
chemical dependency counselorbecause I wanted to teach other
women and other people that theycould do this too, because I
remember how hard it was for meto say yes, I wanted to be that
voice, like Rick was to me tosay I don't know what you think
this is, but this is what it'slike, and so that's what I do
(12:03):
now.
I went back to school.
I started working in treatmentcenters getting people into
treatment in 2011.
And that's what I do now.
I went back to school.
I started working in treatmentcenters getting people into
treatment in 2011.
Speaker 1 (12:11):
And that's when you and I met and you were just
starting your practice and I wasworking for a treatment center,
doing what I still do today andgetting people into treatment
and educating them on what it'slike and educating families, and
so Thank you for sharing allthat, because I think that the
thing here that I see that issort of this universal red
(12:31):
thread through things, is that,for whatever reason, whatever
vice or or thing that we use toavoid, there's this time where
we show up in the world and it'sdo we show up as who we are or
do we show up with theexpectations we believe other
people have for us?
And even when we show up withwhat comes across, like in your
(12:54):
childhood, as positiveexpectations, like hey, you know
, I'm making fantastic grades,I'm having all of this success,
but it's like success for whoand success for what, and it's
like I'm showing up for you whenin reality, I think, like you
said, when you went to treatment, the thing that you really
grabbed onto was I have to knowwho my, like you said, your
(13:17):
little girl was meaning you.
You know, not your daughters,but because I don't think they
were yet right.
Speaker 2 (13:26):
No, but it's interesting because now, as a
parent trying to parent mylittle girl self through that
lens and seeing them, it's justso fascinating.
In fact, I have to be intherapy right now again because
as my girls are going throughthings, things are coming up
again for me and I want to dothings a little bit differently.
(13:48):
I want to show them a differentway than what I was shown,
which is perfection, check offthe boxes.
So I don't hound my kids aboutmaking good grades, like I
remember being hounded.
I don't make everything such abig deal.
I make it more their idea.
I hope to make it more theiridea.
Speaker 1 (14:10):
I am competitive still.
But competitive is not bad.
No, it's not wrong.
And and I don't believe in bustossing parents and I believed
in that before I had children,but I don't you're it sounds to
me like your, your parents, aresaying like okay, like you have
to have good grades.
It's like okay, why, like?
(14:32):
Why do we ask for the things weask for Right, like I don't
think that fear or or the whatpeople would say are the
negative emotions Like thosedon't need to be avoided.
The question in my mind is iswhy are they there?
What can we learn from them?
Speaker 2 (14:49):
And that's one thing that we were never.
We were never given theexplanation when we were younger
as to why we do some of thethings that we do, and, yes,
that's exactly what it is.
So now I try to be a little bitmore intentional in going a
little bit further in theconversation, or this, you know.
Or going back and apologizingto my kids after I make a
(15:12):
mistake and saying you know, Iwas in fear for X, y and Z.
This is why, and this is whyI'm telling you to do certain
things, and so just going alittle bit further in that
conversation I think for me isvery helpful and I think for my
kids hopefully it works.
That doesn't mean they're notgoing to face some of the things
that Heck no, and I often thinkabout okay, how will I know if
(15:36):
it works?
Speaker 1 (15:37):
And, in my mind, where I've come to at this stage
of my life and career is I willknow it works.
If you're willing to be openwith me.
We're going to make mistakes,we're going to show up in ways
we didn't intend to show up.
But if we can slow down and askourselves where am I in that?
What, what was I trying toaccomplish?
What was my motive?
(15:57):
What was you know?
Those types of things, it'slike, okay, now I understand
that, now I can move into it andwe can have a conversation.
It's like what you said, wheream I in that?
If you fuss at your kids in away you didn't mean to, it's
like, well, I was nervous or Iwas fearful, I was in fear for
all of these reasons.
Oh, there I am, because in somuch of our lives we overlook
(16:23):
ourselves and we look to theenvironment to tell us, oh, no,
I'm doing a good job as a dadbecause you, as my daughter, are
perfect, and it's like no, no,no, no, no, no, I'm doing a good
job as a dad If I know when youmake mistakes, we can talk
about that, we can walk throughthat together and that there's
an openness in our relationship,that when mistakes get made,
(16:47):
all right, let's deal with thattogether.
Speaker 2 (16:49):
And the thing that taught me how to do that is
12-step recovery, which is whatI learned in treatment.
You know, you hear about12-step recovery.
You hear about, you know,people having to go through a
program to get sober and it's alot more a way of living than a
chore, and I think a lot ofpeople you know they don't want
(17:14):
to be an alcoholic or they don'twant to go to those AA meetings
or they don't want to go torehab.
That's why I use the wordtreatment.
I think it's softer and kinderand those things are things that
have helped me become the womanI am today, and it's an ongoing
thing.
Yes, you have to continue to goto meetings.
Do you have to go to themforever?
No, in early recovery, yes, buttoday I go because I want to,
(17:37):
because they make me a betterfriend, a better wife, a better
mother, a better employer.
It's not because I have to doit anymore and it's a place
where I can go to remember who Iwas, where I have come and who
I want to be moving forward.
And it's a constant reminder ofthe gift that I got when I got
(18:00):
sober, and so I just think thatthat's very important to share,
because recovery and continuingto do 12-step recovery 15 years
later I've been sober 15 yearsnow is something that's just an
ongoing thing, that helps mewith everything I do in life,
not just staying sober.
It's not about the alcoholanymore.
(18:22):
It's about my daughter makingme angry because she did it.
I don't even know what, yeahwhatever Right.
And that if somebody isn't in 12step recovery or doesn't have
the tools to share some of theirfears, some of their what's
going on in the world, that iswhat makes them go back to
drinking.
And if they have an outlet tobe able to call another person
(18:44):
in recovery, go to a meeting,read some literature, pray and
meditate like all the tools thatwe learn.
You continuously stay on thebeam and move forward in life,
instead of falling off andhaving that hard bottom that I
had to have in early, like whenI wasn't sober yet.
(19:05):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (19:06):
It's interesting because I don't think that
that's unique to addiction.
Speaker 2 (19:10):
No.
Speaker 1 (19:10):
I think that all too often we avoid things that are
painful and I I I conceptualizeaddiction as an avoidance and we
avoid things that are painful,we isolate, we don't have a
group of people that we know wecan trust, who we can be
(19:31):
vulnerable with.
That's one of the things, Ithink, that's unique and very
powerful about the anonymousgroups, the AA or NA or SA or
any of the A's oh wait, gottathrow that one in but all the
A's is that there is thiswillingness and expectation of
being at least transparent,maybe not fully vulnerable, and
(19:55):
that's okay, but we're going towalk together down a pathway
that we're all somewhat familiarwith and in that familiarity
we're going to hopefully not andI don't think any group is
perfect, because, you know,humanity is not perfect but
(20:18):
we're going to walk through thatin a transparent way that we
could offer some insight, someadvice, maybe just some empathy
with you know, I mean I I'veheard so many people say that
they, I went to a meeting and Iwas so moved by the speaker
because, oh my gosh, I've beenthere and it was unique and I
(20:40):
didn't think anybody else hadbeen there in that way and I
felt so understood and I'm likedid you say anything to anybody?
And they're like no, I satquietly.
I was like did you say anythingto anybody?
And they're like no, I satquietly.
I was like but you felt,understood, they're like yes.
Speaker 2 (20:51):
Well, that's fantastic.
Well, and I think that's justthe way that the world is going
today.
We want to be transparent, wewant to be vulnerable and we
want to be empathetic and it'sbecoming cool to do those things
again.
Um, and this is, this is whatthe programs and the recovery
programs have shown us all along, but I think that it's.
I think Brene Brown is who kindof got it to be cool again.
(21:14):
You know, everybody was on theBrene Brown movement for a while
and it was really just peoplebeing transparent and authentic
and being heard and feeling goodabout it.
I mean, there's a power insharing.
Whatever you're going through,everybody has something.
They're going through Everybody, I don't care who you are.
There's no perfect person inthis world and whenever you
(21:38):
share it with another humanbeing, it doesn't give the thing
power Full stop.
And then the healing begins.
Whatever that looks likewhether it's going to counseling
, whether it's going to a 12step meeting, whether it's going
to treatment there's a.
There's a healing.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
When we articulate what's going on inside of us.
I keep, I keep pounding thisdrum of do I know me, where am I
in this and when, when, when wearticulate what's going on
inside of us there, all of asudden, let me back up and say
it this way when you go to likea campground and you're going to
(22:19):
go do a little hike, or you goto God forbid, like grapevine
bills, grapevine mills mall, andyou're going to do the big mile
hike around it is it a mile ora half mile?
I have no idea, I don't know,but it's a really long way
around there and you havesomething you want to pick up
and you want to be in and out ofthere quick, yeah.
Or you're on your trail and youdon't want to be lost.
When you look at the map, whatdo you have?
(22:41):
To know where you are?
And if you go to a mall or to atrail, it will say you are here
, and that's an orienting typeof thing.
But what we often miss is that,as the hero child, where, where
(23:02):
were you?
You were in everybody else.
You were pleasing mom, pleasingdad, pleasing family members,
pleasing teachers, coaches,whomever, yep, it's like where's
Sarah?
Yeah, until you hit your rockbottom and you were like here I
am and I don't like where I am.
Speaker 2 (23:19):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (23:20):
We don't know where we are on the map.
And when we find what's goingon inside of us and we can
articulate that outside of us,then we begin to recognize to
your point that's not ouridentity, it's just simply a
struggle.
It's simply something that'sgoing on inside of us.
We externalize it and then welook on the map and oh yeah, I
(23:41):
am here.
And then I know how to navigateand move around.
And it's like if I wanted to goto the Nike outlet and I start
in one place and the Nike outlet, if I turn left, is only you
know 15 stores away.
But if I turn right, it's thewhole mile around.
Well, I'm going to get superfrustrated that this Nike store
is so far away.
(24:02):
And why am I having to gothrough all these people at
Christmas or whatever?
And it's like no, no, no knowwhere you are so that you know
how to get to where you're going.
And when I know where I am andI know what my goals are, I can
get there.
It's like that's what to me itsounds like that's what sobriety
did for you.
Speaker 2 (24:19):
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (24:20):
I mean it cleared up your map.
Speaker 2 (24:21):
It was the best thing that ever happened to me, and
so I just I do what I do becauseI want other people that are
struggling to be able torecognize it sooner than I did.
Because it wasn't fun.
I was going in and out of AAmeetings and wrestling and
toying with am I one of them?
Am I not?
Didn't understand the messagingthat they were sharing with me
(24:46):
because I didn't know who I wasRight and God forbid me be one
of them, because that's bad.
It's like I was taught good andbad.
I wasn't taught like you can bea little bit of this.
You can be a little bit of this, it's okay.
I was just taught good, bad andI just felt myself as bad.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
Exactly, that's a performance mindset, right, and
I don't think anybody who's.
I mean and I know you agreewith this yeah, anybody who
struggles with addiction is bad.
Speaker 2 (25:17):
No, anybody who struggles with anything is not
bad, but I think everybody who'sin the depths of their
addictions thinks that they are.
Speaker 1 (25:24):
Well, and I do believe that there are people
still out there that do perceiveit that way.
Yes, we look at people and we,we judge them based on their
behavior.
We judge the value of theirpersonhood based on their
behavior.
Yes, and I don't want to gettoo deep into that, but I do
think that there's a part ofthat that we need to really
question.
(25:44):
And, yeah, I think you're right.
So one thing that I wanted toget into, if you're willing, is
you, you are married.
Speaker 2 (25:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (25:55):
And you know we've talked before like I know that
today that your husband is inrecovery.
Speaker 2 (26:02):
Mm, hmm.
Speaker 1 (26:03):
But that wasn't always the case, as you all were
together.
Speaker 2 (26:07):
Nope.
So my husband and I gottogether.
When he was quote unquote, whatwe call a normie.
I thought he wasn't one of usand he saw me through my
addiction and recovery.
Speaker 1 (26:22):
And, as an aside, a normie for those who don't know,
is a person who is perceived tobe able to drink in a normal
fashion.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yes, that's what we call normies.
So he saw me through the good,the bad and the ugly of my own
personal recovery.
We got married shortly afterthat, had kids and then a few
years later he got into his ownpersonal trials with anxiety,
(26:49):
depression, substance abuse, andI think a lot of that came from
his mom and his dad passed awayvery young, when he was very
young, and then he saw me goingthrough all of my stuff.
So he stuffed everything formany, many, many years.
He stuffed everything.
Had to be the one in control,the one in charge, and then left
(27:10):
to me being in recovery, mecontinuing to climb that.
I don't know if ladder is theword, but I continued to- To
sort through it authentically.
And positively.
And things started to happen inmy life where I was moving up
(27:32):
and he was stuck yeah with allof his feelings and his emotions
.
And so he decided he was goingto um use unhealthy coping
mechanisms as well.
And so I was probably six yearsinto this this field of um
recovery, working in this field,and he went through his own
struggles and I had to put himthrough treatment.
(27:54):
And it was a curse and ablessing, but the coolest thing
was that I got to show upauthentically with my boss and
with my peers and my colleaguesand say my husband's struggling,
I need to help him.
What do we do, whereas mostpeople and most employers would
probably see that as a failureor a moral failure, I get to God
(28:16):
already knew that I was goingto be working in this industry.
He knew what was going tohappen way before it happened.
And so 24 hours later I you know, I approach him.
I say I think you have aproblem, I think we need to look
into this.
This is not healthy for ourmarriage, this is not healthy
for our children.
You need to take action or I'mnot going to be here forever.
(28:37):
And so, within 24 hours, he wasin treatment himself and did
the deal, just like I did.
And now he I mean we are asober couple.
We show up as sober parentseverywhere we go.
That's a challenge in and ofitself, just because a lot of
people drink for everything thatthey do now.
(28:58):
But the coolest thing is that weget to parent from that, we get
to be husband and wife.
From that.
We have a lot of just commondaily practices that we do
together and we parent throughthe lens of a 12-step lens, to
where we're doing things.
And I think again, god knewthat that was supposed to happen
(29:19):
, because when it wasn't when Iwas sober and he was not it was
very, very difficult.
So anybody out there who'slistening, if your spouse is
still actively drinking or using, it's not the end of the world,
but you do need to take actionfor it, because it's-.
Speaker 1 (29:37):
If it's a problem.
Speaker 2 (29:38):
Yeah, it's not easy.
I think when my husband wasstill actively drinking and
using, we had spouts as marriedcouples do and things weren't
working and things weren't goingright and we'd go to therapy
and it'd be a really greattherapy session, but he was
still actively drinking andusing and not telling the truth
(30:00):
about what was really going on.
People out there do that andhave that same situation happen.
Or people that come to you guyswho one person is telling the
truth and the other person's not, and they're spending thousands
of dollars in therapy andnobody's asking the underlying
(30:20):
question about how much they'rereally drinking, how much are
they really using?
Are they, you know, is one ofthem?
Does one of one person have aproblem with substance abuse?
Like you're never going to fix?
Know, is one of them?
Does one person have a problemwith substance abuse?
Like you're never going to fixyour marriage if one of those
people is not telling the truthabout their substance abuse?
And so that was our story, likethere was many years where
things were really hard andthings weren't good because one
(30:42):
person was, you know, just notbeing authentic and telling his
truth, not being authentic andtelling his truth until, like
myself, he hit rock bottom andour marriage was rocky and
things were out of sorts and Ibasically said I am not going to
be here anymore if you don't godo this.
And then, once that was done,very quickly things started
(31:03):
resolving.
He went and got help for histhing, but his thing wasn't
really his thing.
Like we don't really.
We don't go start using anddrinking because we want to be
alcoholic.
It's something deeper.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
There's always something deeper.
It's always, I believe, that itis.
Again, it's an avoidance, it isa.
It is a.
It's a.
It's a tactic to soothe, andthat's why I have such a problem
with people who say addictionis bad.
No, the people that I know thateither are addicted or have a
(31:40):
history of being addicted areusually the kindest, most
tenderhearted people I've evermet.
Absolutely and it's, it's, it's,it's a coping mechanism and you
know.
Going back to your commentabout telling the truth in a
therapy session, the difficultyis a lot of people I don't
believe know what's true becausethey're so avoiding that whole
(32:05):
map of where am I?
Speaker 2 (32:06):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (32:07):
And they have no clue .
They don't want to sit with thefact that you know to use some
of your husband's.
What you've said about him isthat I don't want to live with
the fact that my parents aregone.
I don't want to live with thefact that you know times are
tough.
I don't want to live with thefact that if I look into this
like if I stare this, what I'mdoing in in its face, then I
(32:29):
have to face a lot of reallydark like demons, ugly, things
that are anxiety, depression,and I don't want to face that.
It's hard, so I'll just livewith the fact that no, no, no,
it's all you and our tendency isis we put things out in the
environment and say theenvironment needs to change or
the environment will tell me ifI'm okay, when, in reality,
(32:52):
again, where am I in that?
Because the environment cannotdictate to me and that's a
really, really hard thing towalk through.
Speaker 2 (33:00):
Yes, 100%.
I love the way that youarticulated that whole thing,
because that's the truth behindgetting sober is you're going to
have to face super hard truths,but it's not going to be hard
forever.
I want people to know that it'snot going to be hard forever
and walking through that hardstuff there is such profound joy
(33:21):
at the end of that and itdoesn't have to go on for as
long as you think it needs to goon.
The sooner you go get help, thesooner you go find a therapist,
the sooner you walk into therooms of a 12-step program, the
sooner you go and say, okay, Ineed to go to treatment, the
(33:43):
sooner that you're going to findyourself and find that healing.
And then things start movingpretty quickly after that.
I mean very quickly.
Speaker 1 (33:51):
Yeah, I've noticed that when people remain honest
with themselves, that's whenhealing really begins.
Speaker 2 (33:59):
Yeah, and it's not just a linear like you don't
just go to treatment, check offthe box and be done.
I think that the greatest tooland gift that I was given was
being heard and and reallyaccepting and learning that
being heard is something that Idesired and I craved.
Speaker 1 (34:18):
We all do.
Speaker 2 (34:19):
So 15 years later, I know when I'm feeling a little
squirrely, I probably need tocall my therapist and start
going to therapy again.
And I don't always go, for, youknow, years and years at a time
.
I might go for six months for asituation and then it's like,
okay, this is, this is done.
And then you know, six monthslater, I'm rocking and rolling
and something else comes up andthat little voice, you know,
(34:42):
chimes in my ear like maybe Ineed to call my therapist, or
maybe I need to go to a meeting,or maybe I need to go to church
, I don't know.
Whatever it is, um, there'salways tools in my toolbox.
Speaker 1 (34:53):
There, there are tools available to people and it
like like to your point, whichI think is very well said it's
not always going to therapy.
Sometimes it's I need to go bewith a group of people that I
know that love me and and I cantrust and I love them back and
so I can go and be me, I can beauthentically me.
(35:14):
Sometimes it may be that I needto get up and I need to start
moving.
I find myself avoiding and I'misolating and I find myself
binging Netflix or whatever andit's like I need to get moving,
but it's it's.
This is, to me, why that thevisual of that map is so
critical is where are you inthis?
(35:34):
Why?
Because you intrinsically Ibelieve we intrinsically know
for the most part what we need.
Like you said, that still smallvoice that comes into you, that
comes into your head or yourear and says hey, sarah, it's
time for.
Speaker 2 (35:51):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:52):
And if you listen to that, hey, it's time to get up
and move.
Hey, it's time to go be withyour people.
That can be very powerful.
Speaker 2 (36:00):
So I just want to say for anybody out there who's
still struggling, who has aloved one that's struggling, you
can you know, like we've talkedabout, you can call Lee here at
Restoration Counseling and getinto therapy with one of the
therapists here Go to a 12-stepmeeting.
I personally work for LaHacienda.
If you need to go to treatmentor a higher level of care, you
(36:21):
can go to wwwlahaciendacom.
I'm always available, throughLee or through La Hacienda, to
be able to mentor and talk andeducate people on recovery and
what that looks like for youdoesn't mean it has to be going
to treatment, it might besomething else and I'm available
to just talk you through that.
And so just want everyone toknow that there's a lot of
(36:44):
resources out there and, likeLee said, figure out where
you're at on that map, figureout where you want to be and
take action.
Speaker 1 (36:54):
Yeah, thank you, sarah.
I think that people just don'thave to be alone in this.
Speaker 2 (37:01):
No.
Speaker 1 (37:02):
And this is a taking a step of reaching out may feel
incredibly overwhelming, andwhat I, what I know, what I've
seen, is that when somebodywho's there, who's kind, like
yourself, that they reach theirhand out and they're met by you,
(37:22):
there's real healing there.
Speaker 2 (37:25):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (37:26):
There's possibilities there, and so, man, I just hope
everybody knows that there'shope.
Yeah, and it may be acircuitous or a loopy path, but
there's hope and you don't haveto suffer alone.
Speaker 2 (37:39):
Yeah, and everybody knows somebody who is struggling
with a substance abuse or witha, and reach out to those people
, talk to those people.
I'm available to talk toanybody and tell my story and
share.
It's my favorite thing to do isjust share my experience,
strength and hope, what happenedto me, what it could look like
(38:01):
for you and it doesn't have tobe the same way that I did it
but let's figure out what way isgonna work for you and let's
take action.
Speaker 1 (38:09):
Love that yeah.
Speaker 2 (38:11):
Thank you.
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