March 25, 2025 • 49 mins
In this episode of Restoration Beyond the Couch, Dr. Lee Long sits down with returning guest Dr. Debra Atkisson to explore the role of dopamine in the brain and its impact on daily life. They discuss how technology and constant stimulation affect our dopamine levels and share practical strategies for cultivating mindfulness in a fast-paced digital world. Tune in for valuable insights on finding balance, improving focus, and supporting mental well-being.
Order Dr. Atkisson's book here: https://www.amazon.com/Master-Your-Storm-Insights-Psychiatrist/dp/B0DQVYS7TP
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long, and today I'mjoined once again by Dr Deborah
Ackeson, a board-certifiedpsychiatrist and expert in
mental health.
In this episode, we're divinginto the fascinating world of
dopamine how it works in thebrain and its impact on everyday
(00:23):
life, from motivation andpleasure to focus and addiction.
We'll explore the role dopamineplays in our mental and
emotional well-being.
Whether you're looking tooptimize your brain health or
simply want to understandyourself better, this
conversation is packed withvaluable insights.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here.
(00:45):
Welcome, Dr A.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, hi, it's great to be here talking with you.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's so great to have you back.
So today we're going to gothrough some information that
you and I have spoken to somedifferent audiences and crowds
prior, and that is the impact ofdopamine and social media and
pornography that that has on thebrain.
So welcome for that fun, lighttopic.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yes, you know.
Unfortunately, this is a topicthat I think more people should
be talking about more openlybecause it has become an
enormous problem in our society.
We were just chatting aboutthis that with the advent of
social media, which can be usedfor so much good, like your show
(01:37):
is and like a lot of otherplaces where we get information
there's also a side to socialmedia where people are having a
lot of information that's verynegative and dangerous come out
and it's causing significanttrauma, especially to our
younger adults and teenagers.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, let's sit on that for a minute, when we think
about the significant traumathat it's causing them.
What are you seeing in yourpractice?
What are you seeing in yourpractice?
What are you seeing in your?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
experiences.
So the first thing I'm going tosay is I see teens and adults
who get engaged in this, andeven older adults, like in their
in their marital relationships.
They start becoming moreisolated from other people.
They're not as connected.
I'm seeing an impact.
This is a great warning sign.
When you see someone whoseinteractions with others have
(02:27):
become more limited, we knowthat there's a problem of some
kind.
We don't always know what it is.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And so.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I see that I see people become very guilty and
very shameful about the behaviorthey're engaged in, but
unfortunately on their ownthey're not able to break the
cycle.
So they live with this secretthat they have that they're
engaged in this addictiveprocess of pornography which is
(02:54):
impacting relationships, it'simpacting how they feel about
themselves and it's keeping themfrom doing anything to improve
their situation.
So they're sort of trapped init.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, yeah it's.
It does seem like there's,there is a place of entrapment
for a lot of this.
Right, there's a there's ahijacking of our brains or it's
a hijacking of our behaviors.
Would you take us on a littletour of how, like how the mind
works with dopamine, so that wecan maybe bring our listeners up
(03:26):
to speed?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
on some of this, oh for sure.
So dopamine, and I believethere's an excellent book that's
been written about it, calledDopamine Nation.
Who is the author of that book,anna?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Lemke, Dr Lemke.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
She has done a phenomenal job laying that out
there.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yes, that is a great book, so if anyone wants to take
a deeper dive into that, pleasecheck that book out.
What I would say about dopamine, though, is it is such an
essential chemical for us for somany reasons, and it's involved
in many things.
So if you begin by justthinking about, we feel
(04:06):
emotionally that feeling ofhappiness, excitement, all the
way to even movement functions.
Dopamine is involved in theability to move, for instance.
There's some neurologicaldisorders where people's
dopamine is very out of whack,such as Parkinson's syndrome.
People are probably familiarwith that, so it impacts our
brain.
There are neural pathways Ilike to think of them as
(04:30):
highways.
Some of them are super highwaysthat are running all across our
brain into different sectionsthat carry dopamine.
As humans, we want our dopaminelevels elevated, because it
makes us feel great, anddopamine is the chemical, for
instance, that goes through theroof.
When someone uses a drug likecocaine, it will really push the
dopamine levels high.
(04:51):
What people don't understandabout dopamine is that, as we
artificially push those levelshigher and higher, then becomes
an addictive process.
This happens in people who getinto intensive video gaming, for
instance.
You've heard about those peoplewho won't even stop to eat
because they are in this processof pushing the dopamine levels
higher and higher and they can'tbreak the cycle themselves.
(05:13):
Many addictions do this Porndoes.
This Porn makes your dopaminelevels higher and higher and, as
you've discussed before, whenpeople start engaging in it,
they have to keep pursuing itover and over.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Right and the content gets more and more and more
intense.
You know you mentioned how theintensive gaming and how people
will not stop to eat.
I have even known and heard ofindividuals who will put on an
adult diaper so that they'rethey don't even have to stop to
use the restroom.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Oh, my word.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And you think about this.
We are designed, we're wired,we're designed for survival in a
world of scarcity, but we don'tlive in a world of scarcity
anymore.
And so you talking about thesedopamine hits that we're looking
for, it's like part of me looksat this world and thinks we're
kind of set up to fail.
Right, if we're looking at itin the negative, we're sort of
(06:10):
set up to fail because you knowhow do we communicate?
Many of our meetings are onzoom.
Thank, thank God and thank youfor being here today that we're
not on zoom, you know, but howmany?
But the?
But the idea of that, the ideaof of a, of a virtual meeting,
is actually quite helpful.
So here we are, using thissimilar technology.
(06:33):
That is both helpful, but atthe same time, it's like how do
we know when it's helpful andwhen it's harmful?
Right, because social media,like you said, sometimes it's
used for really positive things.
You know we can get messagesout to a large crowd to be
encouraging, to be, um, you know, informative, but at the same
(06:55):
time, there's other messagesthat are being put out there
that are very, very destructive.
I mean cyber bullying, right,all that.
So it's like where do we drawthe line, cause I don't.
I certainly don't want peopleto walk away from our discussion
feeling like, oh my gosh, Ineed to go, move to a farm and
not have a cell phone and, youknow, not engage in anything on
(07:16):
the Internet because it's allbad and evil.
And I know you're not sayingthat, but I just I'm curious,
what's your take on you?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
know it's interesting .
You bring that up because theword that comes to mind for me
as to what we all have to bemore mindful about is living
with intention, and so I believethat the things that are great
about social media we don'tthrow the baby out with the
bathwater.
I think what we do is that weare intentional about what we
(07:44):
choose to put into our brains,just like what we would choose
to eat to put into our bodies,and that we try to engage with
media that's informative andhelpful and positive and
inspiring.
I mean, you're on this with me.
I have a Facebook group calledMental Health Solutions
(08:05):
Community.
It's for people to shareinformation about mental health
so they can get data out therethat can be beneficial to people
.
We have rules about how we letthat group go.
I mean things such as that yourpodcast.
I have been amazed at thecontent that you've already
curated with this podcast aboutseveral different topics that
(08:26):
can be very beneficial to people.
I think we have to think aboutwhat we choose to use, and then
I think, of course, there'sareas of social media that are
just for fun.
Right, you want to keep up witheach other's family and friends
, those sorts of things.
There's some TikToks.
I mean other's family andfriends, those sorts of things.
(08:47):
There's some tick talks, I meanthere's I'll openly admit it,
he drops two to three minutetick talks.
This, uh, ophthalmologist, drglock and fleckham, where he
does parodies of the um,different medical specialties.
And since I work as a coachwith different physicians, uh, I
see a grain of truth in all ofthose and they make me laugh.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Okay, I've got to hear his name again, so it's.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Dr Glockenfleck.
It has to do with he's anophthalmologist, Okay, but is
that his real name?
No, it's not his real name.
That's his.
That's what he.
That's his stage name.
That's his TikTok name.
Okay, I love it.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
One of the things that I want to come back to is
the what, what dopamine does,and and and and the impact on
our brains and bodies.
You know you brought up thefact of movement Right and how
Parkinson's is one of thoseplaces, that one of those
diseases that has the the impactof dopamine.
Does Parkinson's take dopamineaway Like?
(09:41):
Does it impact the dopaminergic?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
take dopamine away Like, does it impact the
dopaminergic.
So what happens, very sadly, isthere's centers in the brain
that have to do with movementand dopamine production and
dopamine dopamine productiondecreases and you do not have as
much dopamine as you had before.
So the drugs that are used totreat dopamine bring dopamine
levels up for the purpose ofmovement.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And the sad thing that I've heard it's the it's
L-Dopa correct.
Is that's what they're using?
Is that there's it?
It, uh, causes very differentstyles of addiction to to pop up
in these people's lives.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I'm so glad you brought that up because, um, if
anyone has a member in theirlives, a family member, who has
this, it might be helpful forthem to understand this about
this.
You can take people who havetheir entire life been very
rational, reasonable folks, whohave great self-control, no
addictive tendencies, and whenthey start taking the medicine
(10:39):
which they have to take to beable to function at all or to
move at all when they haveParkinson's disease, they will
sometimes get into almostmanic-like spending sprees.
A lot of spending online issomething that happens.
For instance, their abilitiesto make decisions can sometimes
become impaired.
I'm certainly not saying peoplewith Parkinson's are not
(11:01):
competent.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm just saying it can impacttheir behaviors as a consequence
, sometimes, of the medicinesthey're taking.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So, when you think about all of the like the world
that we're in and you thinkabout all of the dopamine
saturation that we experience,that it's these things are
coming at us so fast and furious, do you believe that there is a
part to the way that?
(11:32):
Let me say, do you believe thatthere's a part to how we show
up in society that is connectedto some of this, because I
really appreciate what you'resaying about the, the, uh, the
Parkinson's patients and how itjust gradually for some and
drastically for others, shiftstheir personality.
(11:54):
But I'm curious is, if you havea kid, a little kid, who starts
on an iPad, let's say, watchingvideos, do you believe that
that is slowly changing,potentially, the trajectory of
their personhood, of theirpersonality and who they are?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
100%.
I'm so glad you brought that upbecause if they are getting
involved and I think about someof the stories I've heard
recently I was telling you abouta fellow who, at nine, was
sitting on an iPad.
He made the comment that hisparents were struggling with a
number of issues at that time,so he frequently was placed on
(12:32):
an iPad, and this is a young manin his 20s and he might be a
knock.
He was innocuously looking atsomething one day and, boom,
here came a porn site that justpopped up.
He didn't know what it was, butof course he went down that
rabbit hole and just startedlooking at it and he talked
about the impact on him.
What I see happen to kids whohave excessive time with screens
(12:55):
of any sort whether they'regetting into negative sites like
porn, whether they're gettinginto other sites with lots of
aggression and violence theybegin to shift in a way that
they don't pick up oninteractions with other people.
They become less interested inhaving interactions with other
people, even to the point thatthe reality testing becomes a
(13:17):
little skewed.
And that's what I want to bringback to us talking about porn
in terms of young adults,children and young adults
looking at these images that arenot really real.
I mean, there's a lot ofphotoshopping, there's a lot of
staging.
There's a lot of unusual andbizarre things that are placed
in there that are really outsidethe realm of a typical, typical
(13:41):
sexual relationship.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, and what's so interesting, what's so sad, is
that you know, like you said,they're very scripted and very
directed and there's cameraangles and shots of things, even
with as as you and I'vediscussed before with different
audiences is that, even with avery adventurous sex life, you
(14:03):
are not going to ever see someof the angles and videos of
what's on pornography.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
That's exactly correct.
I mean you won't.
I mean unless you have someone,when you're engaging in a
sexual relationship, who'sfilming and cropping and moving
things you're not going to.
I mean you'll be watching it ona screen but you're not going
to see it during the interaction.
And I think that leads a lot ofmen and women to have very
unrealistic ideas about what ahuman body should be looking
(14:38):
like or how it should befunctioning, and it's led to
ideas about beauty standards,for instance, that are just not
realistic.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And we could press that, not just in pornography.
I mean, how many people send aphoto, or I should say, post a
photo online and they put itthrough a filter, and so
everything is put through afilter.
And I talk to a lot of peoplewho are going through dating and
(15:06):
, you know, searching for apartner, and they're dating
online and they look and theythink, okay, one of their
biggest questions is is thispicture filtered Right?
And so not only is it skewingit sexually, it's skewing it
aesthetically.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Absolutely skewing it sexually.
It's skewing it umaesthetically absolutely well,
have you?
Have you noted all the crop upin terms of being able to have
ai headshots done?
I mean, it's amazing right it'samazing and it's really hard to
tell sometimes whether those arereal or not.
Have you you ever, forprofessional reasons, have you
ever met someone you were goingto engage with that you've maybe
been engaging with on aprofessional site like LinkedIn
(15:50):
or whatever, having discussionsabout mutual topics, and you all
were going to meet at a meeting, so you were looking for that
person based on what you wereseeing.
Yes, and it took a moment torealize.
Oh, I think that's who that is.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Have you ever had that experience?
Yes, actually recently, andit's a little undoing.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It is.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
To think, wow, you're representing yourself one way
and again it's like you knowthis individual was.
They were fine, they werelovely, and my thought is, oh, I
wish we all felt like we couldbe authentic.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So dopamine is a big player in this arena, but so is
oxytocin, right.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Anything you want to talk to us about with oxytocin?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Oxytocin is an extremely important chemical for
relationships and bonding.
It even has a physical impacton another chemical so that when
women give birth they bond totheir babies like glue.
I think I had laughingly saidin one of the presentations that
we did.
You know, has everyone evernoticed that no matter what a
(17:01):
baby looks like, that motherthinks that it is the most
beautiful person who everexisted, and I believe I use the
phrase.
There are those babies thatsometimes only a mother could
initially love.
I believe all humans are ofgreat worth, no matter their
appearance.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
But mothers will look at those children like they are
the most beautiful baby ever.
Right, and let's be honestabout this.
I personally love babies.
I love babies, but most of themdon't look especially beautiful
the first day or two of birth.
But when you look at a mother'seyes when she receives that
baby, it's so powerful to watch,because that expression, the
(17:42):
intensity of that bonding andlove is there.
Oxytocin does that.
And so when one thing thathappens a lot in relationships
men and women are impacted byoxytocin, but men not to the
degree that women are, and I'vetold I cannot tell you how many
young adult women and adolescentgirls I've had sit in my office
who were completely shatteredand heartbroken because they had
(18:05):
fallen in love with a fellowand then they had intercourse
with them.
The active, a sexual encounterwith someone will elevate
oxytocin, and it does especiallyso for females.
They bond like glue, and sowith men they have that feeling
as well and it's a high, butit's not the same exactly as it
is for females.
(18:25):
That being said, it impactsboth, and so when you're
engaging with pornography, therelationship isn't with a person
Because, again, the reason forthat bonding is that oxytocin
surge is to bond therelationship.
It's one reason why, frankly, inmarital relationships it's
(18:46):
important.
A lot of married couples theyget to the point where they're
not engaging as much sexuallyI'm sure you've seen this
multiple times and it'simportant for them to engage
sexually.
It's like the glue that helpshold the relationship together.
It's important not justphysically, but it's important
for a lot, or a video, andthat's what they're engaging
with it begins to shift how theyrelate to other people in
(19:18):
general.
They're bonding to somethingthat's not three dimensional and
not real and it really canimpact their brain in a negative
way.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
What I've seen is that, speaking of impacting
their brain in a negative way,is we've talked about this term
a soul tie, and how difficultthat is to unwind.
That Because the expression ofoxytocin is released in the
brain at orgasm.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
And when labor is kicked in with the mother,
that's when the oxytocin isreleased.
And how beautiful that we'redesigned for the mother to have
the big surge of oxytocin thatis imparted to that child, so
that the baby and the motherhave that bonding time.
What a beautiful design.
Yes, and you see that thisgreater design is all about
(20:11):
relationship and all aboutconnecting, and these other
themes are all aboutdisconnecting.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Because when you are experiencing let's say, you're
gaming online and you're doingall of these things and you're
conquering all these levels andyou're looking at social media
and you're being enticed or orenjoying all of these different
photos or or even on inpornography, when you're seeing
(20:41):
all of this sexual activity,it's like that is increasing the
dopamine, and then when youhave that physical release of an
orgasm, you're now connectingto something that isn't real.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And when you think about that, it's actually
further disconnecting you fromyou, because you're not
discovering what it means to bea part of something greater than
you, meaning in a relationship.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
And I often look at the theme that I see that that
shows up in my office over andover and over again is the sense
of intrapersonal, or selfawareness.
I'm constantly outside of melooking at these images,
(21:31):
conquering these levels that areoutside of me, looking at this
pornography that is againoutside of me.
It's not teaching me anythingabout me.
So when I try to go into aninterpersonal which means self
plus others I don't know whatI'm bringing.
(21:51):
And when I don't have a self tobring to an interpersonal
interaction, I bring chaos,either internally or externally
to you and this is what I seeover and over and over again
sitting in my office is thatthere is this lack of sense of
self-awareness that thereforecontributes to a whole lot of
(22:13):
chaos, and that chaos varies.
It's on a spectrum, it'sdifferent.
That chaos may mean I feelreally insecure because I don't
look like the porn model.
I don't look like the pornmodel.
So I've got to, you know, makesure that I'm constantly moving
around in my clothes to makesure that they're setting me up
to look, look right as I airquote that but I'm bringing
(22:38):
something that is really notgoing to give the other person
the ability to connect to me,because there's really not a me
there to connect to.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
You know, how can we expect another person to connect
with us when we're notconnected to ourselves?
Speaker 1 (22:50):
That's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And so I think that level of self-connection, that
you have done a lot of work inthis area with the intrapersonal
relationship.
We need to know who we are, weneed to know what our values are
, we need to know what'simportant to us.
When I'm working with peopleand I'm coaching them, I always
ask them if they have their ownpersonal mission statement for
(23:13):
who they are and when they don't.
That's something we work onbecause it's something that I
want them to think about andreflect upon and it's not being
selfish.
I've often had someone say youmean, working on yourself?
Isn't that selfish?
Absolutely not, because the moregrounded you are the more in
touch with who you are, the moreyou have to bring to all of
(23:35):
your relationships with theirromantic partners, work partners
, people you're taking care of,your children, your family.
You have that to bring.
You know.
We've talked about these typesof things and I think one thing
as we discuss this is I thinkit's important for us to think
about the hope that people canhave, and this is where I think
(23:58):
getting information out usingpositive media media information
, like you use your podcast is away to help people understand
this.
We have the ability now todisseminate information that
people can use in such a goodway.
So when you talk about theintra-psychic, you know part of
who you are, the intra-personalpart of who you are.
What would you advise peopleyourself to begin to work on
(24:21):
that process, because I thinkthere may be someone listening
today that says I'm not sure howI get started with this.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I think that's brilliant.
You know, the first thing thatI tell anybody who sits down in
my office is where are you inthat and in that being whatever
it is we're discussing?
So if it's, you know, gosh, I'mdoom scrolling on Twitter every
night looking at all thepolitical goings on and it
(24:50):
stresses me out Great.
Where are you in that?
What are you looking for, whatare you experiencing?
In other words, it's bringingyou to a place of mindfulness,
and mindfulness is just mostsimply stated.
Mindfulness is just anawareness, an awareness of what
is what's around you and yourexperience of it.
(25:11):
And as they walk through thatsense of mindfulness, what they
have found and it's what'sreally neat is when someone is
sitting there and saying, youknow, I don't know, well, it's
because my kids are.
Oh, it's because my partner, oh, it's because and I'm like Whoa
, come back to you.
And, like you said, there's alot of times there's often,
(25:32):
often, especially, people offaith traditions.
I thought that that was selfishand wrong to focus on me, and I
, and I, like you, will helpthem see and hopefully help them
see that if I don't know me,how can I bring me to we?
So am I?
Am I quite useful.
(25:53):
I hate to make it this, thisdirect, but am I quite useful if
I don't bring me to a situation?
Then what am I?
What do I?
What am I offering?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Right, that's exactly spot on, lee.
It really is.
I'm going to comment about themindfulness portion because that
, I think, is a foundation forworking on your interpersonal
self.
Yeah, I believe everyone and wetalked about intention earlier
and what are things people cando so everyone can decide to
take a few minutes a day to lookat themselves from a
(26:29):
mindfulness perspective.
You're exactly right,mindfulness is a very simple
it's being aware of who you are,how you feel, where you are in
the moment, in the present.
That's right and people have toslow down and take five to ten
minutes a day to practice.
This I often recommend topeople when I'm working with
(26:50):
them.
One of the things I'm going toask you to do is spend ten
minutes a day on you, just tenminutes where you're doing a
mindfulness practice and we talkabout what that could be.
And so there's differentbreathing techniques.
I box breathing is one that'stalked about techniques.
I box breathing is one that'stalked about.
I like to do counted breathing,where people count to a certain
number, then they inhale andexhale to regulate their
(27:11):
breathing.
That's another way to do that.
We talk about visual imageryreally thinking about where you
are in that moment.
And then the other thing I'mgoing to say about mindfulness,
because you mentioned faithtraditions.
That I think is reallyfascinating to me.
Prayer is a way to be mindful.
Whatever your faith traditionis, prayer is a very helpful way
(27:41):
to be mindful how we work.
We were actually set up in away so that we are being mindful
and we're having a mindfulnesspractice through prayer or
spiritual disciplines such asmeditation.
There's a book that was writtenin like the 13th century, I
believe, called the Cloud ofUnknowing.
It was by a monk who is notidentified.
(28:02):
If you read that, he's talkingabout mindfulness, and so this
is something in all of our faithtraditions that has been
present forever, but we haven'tlabeled it, and so that's
another way people can bringmindfulness in to their daily
practice.
There's different ways to do it.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I love that and thank you for giving such practical
ideas of how to be mindful.
I think that's so helpful.
I think, too, when we asparents, if we have teenagers
who are, they look, let's justface it, teenagers feel
disconnected because they aredevelopmentally, are going
(28:43):
through very similar, a verysimilar developmental stage to
what toddlers go through.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That is right.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right, it's, it's that independence, it's seeking
that sense of independence.
Toddlers are doing it on a on amore gross scale or a rougher
scale, I guess I would say,where they're looking for bodily
independence.
They just want to tie their ownshoes, they want to pour their
own shoes, they want to pourtheir own milk, they want to,
you know, get their own snack.
(29:10):
Where teenagers are looking forit more on an intra personal
sense of I want to be my ownperson and I think about like
how then can we as parents or oreven as authority figures, or
or or mentors, how can we guidethese teenagers through?
And I think a lot of it isteaching the teenager to be
(29:33):
mindful.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I'm so glad you're bringing this up.
There's actually some brainchanges that happen during the
teen years.
There's a term for it.
We call it pruning Right.
Some of the neurons that are nolonger needed are not there and
they're pruned away, and thenothers develop and myelinate
more.
The brain is not fullymyelinated or developed.
so you're in your mid-20s and soinsurance companies knew about
(29:56):
that I think you're right aboutthat, and so I think that, with
teenagers, if we can begin toteach them some very basic
skills of self-regulation, whichinvolves mindfulness
Mindfulness is what you startwith Then they can learn some
self-regulation skills, ways todeal with those emotions, such
(30:18):
as anger, frustration, sadness,and I think what I would
encourage any parent or anyadult who works with teens today
to be thinking about.
I would encourage any parent orany adult who works with teens
today to be thinking about thesethings that we sort of take for
granted because we've beendoing them for a while, in terms
of taking a breath, or hittingthe pause button internally and
not immediately responding.
(30:39):
Or when you write that email,read the email first before you
hit the button.
Or when you do a social mediapost post, don't just put it out
there yet till you take aminute to reflect on it and how
it's going to be perceived.
These are all things that teensare not aware of right and it's
what fuels a lot of thesometimes what can feel like
(30:59):
chaos going on with them andtheir relationships.
We can actually teach themthese things by discussing them
directly with them when we didthe conversation and the
presentation with young adultsrelated to pornography.
We had some great questions andthey really wanted to hear our
thoughts about how to deal withcertain things.
(31:21):
That's right.
And these are not things wewould have opened a conversation
with them about.
They ask us the question.
That's right.
I would encourage all adults torealize we have a lot to pass
on to the younger generation andwe can help them.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Boy Ken, yes, yes, and it's taking the risk to
reach out or to open thediscussion with them.
And I'm so glad you're pointingthat out.
And I go back to and sorry tobeat the tar out of this, but I
go back to the whole idea as aparent, as an authority figure,
(31:58):
as a mentor.
If we don't know us, if wedon't know ourselves, if we're
not aware of what thesequestions are doing to us, or
what had the impact of socialmedia, pornography, you know,
gaming, those types, these other, these younger folks, we're
probably not, we're probablygoing to go toward them with
(32:32):
chaos.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
You could not be more right, and I'm so glad you hit
the pause on that and emphasizethat before we start working
with them we have to know who weare, how we cope, how we manage
and be aware of maybe whatwe've done in our lives that
hasn't been healthy, or whatwe're even doing today.
I mean, I'll be the first tosay it's easy for me when I
(32:55):
start reading about certainmedical things, I'll go to one
and I'll go to another and Iwill spend more time doing that
than I had intended.
So I mean, one check I do formyself is check my phone to see
how much time have I been doingon these sorts of things.
That's one thing that piece ofa device will give to you.
It will give you informationabout that and you need to check
(33:16):
it and look at it and be aware.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I love that.
One of the things that I do isthat when I feel stressed, I
noticed that I picked my phoneup and I start looking at things
, like I may look at Twitter, Imay look at whatever, and I'm
realizing when I pick up myphone, where am I?
What am I experiencing rightnow?
Okay, I'm experiencing somestress, so I'm gonna put that
(33:40):
down.
I'm going to think through whatam I stressed about?
How can I impact thatdifferently?
This may take me a minute, likejust a series of questions that
take about a minute to gothrough.
It's just where am I?
What am I experiencing?
Is there anything?
Is there an agency or a senseof power that I have over this
(34:01):
topic, or whatever?
It is Like if, if, if.
I'm looking at it and I'msaying, okay, I'm stressed
because it's it's raining and Iknow that I wanted to go to a
baseball game this afternoon.
It's like, well, okay, it'sraining, can I do anything about
that?
No, can I do anything If thegame is canceled?
No, but I can think ofalternative things that I could
do.
That's fun, great, I don't.
I'm not going to find that onTwitter or X, whatever it's
(34:24):
called.
Now, you know what I'm saying,and so it's like, okay, don't
avoid that, don't avoid thatfeeling, move through that, own
it and come up with a solutionthat fits you.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And that is such an important point we, as people,
want to avoid the full emotionalrange of feelings that we're
meant to have.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
There's something very rewarding about taking a
moment if you're frustrated oryou're sad, and asking yourself
that question why am I feelingthe way I am right now, in this
moment, and realizing why youcan actually learn something
about yourself and you can learnsomething that is important to
(35:08):
you.
I mean, I'll just tell you,this past week, two years ago,
an extremely close friend ofmine died this past week and I
had found myself this weekthinking of her.
She just kept coming to mind.
I think about her frequently,but she kept wonderful, human.
She kept coming to mind.
And then, on the day that shehad died, I noted I don't have
(35:30):
this marked on my calendar, Ijust noted that day I was grumpy
and irritable and I stopped andI thought why are you feeling
this way?
And in that moment I thought ohyes, this is the day that she
left us two years ago.
It's a bit of an anniversaryreaction and I'll tell you what
I did.
I paused, I took a breath and Ithought to myself and what
(35:52):
would my dear friend, who isalso a therapist, what would she
want me to be doing at thismoment?
She would want me to thinkabout something that we talked
about or that we did.
That was funny, and so in thatmoment I recounted a very
positive memory of her as a wayof paying tribute to that
relationship.
So you know, when you thinkabout the intrapersonal, I had
(36:16):
an interpersonal relationshipwith someone who brought me
positive things intrapersonally.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Right.
Thank you for sharing thatbecause you're wow, what an
example.
Because that's the beauty thatwe're designed for in connection
is that we have an experienceinterpersonally, meaning between
self and another person, andhow that impacts us, changes us.
How that impacts us, changes usand, in this case, changes us
(36:48):
or changes you for the positive.
It was such a beautiful impactand you think about how you walk
through that now that she's nolonger here with us on this
earth, and it's bringing,bringing her back up into it's.
It's bringing the intrapersonal, the interpersonal into the
(37:08):
intrapersonal, which soundsbackwards, meaning bringing the
others back up into the self,meaning you reminded yourself
what were some of the beautifulthings that you shared together
Funny stories, funny things,things that she would have
enjoyed, that y'all would haveenjoyed.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Things that you learn and grow from in the
relationship, throughdiscussions, through activities.
I mean that's whererelationship is so important.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Right Social media technology, especially
pornography, video gaming.
Anything that takes you andisolates you from the world
isolates you, not separates you.
Isolates you from the world,does damage to our sense of self
(38:02):
.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
It does and it's insidious.
We don't realize it's happening.
It's like a thief who steals alittle bit from us each day over
time.
That's, if we're putting thosenegative types of influences
inside of us, we are bringingthose inside of us.
On the flip side, when we allowourselves some time, it has to
(38:25):
be balanced, just like we allowourselves balanced time or we
should be to get adequateexercise in to make sure we're
eating adequately, we'resleeping adequately, all those
basic things you know we grew uphearing they're actually real.
We do need to do those things tobe able to function well and
stay healthy.
But also from our psychologicaland emotional and relationship
(38:47):
health and, I believe, ourspiritual health, we need to
think about what we allowourselves to ingest, because
whatever we're having arelationship with, or whoever
we're having a relationship with, it's going to have a feedback
on us and impact us internally.
So it impacts thatintrapersonal relationship.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Boy, that is so well said and I always think about
you know you are who you hangaround with, like right.
Your mama always said thatright, you are who you hang
around with, and I think there'sa lot of truth to that, to your
point and at this point in life, at this point in our culture,
it's you are what you spend themajority of your time with.
(39:31):
It may not be who you hang outwith, it may be what you fill
your time with.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yes, and I think people lose sight of that.
They lose sight of the factthat if they're spending a lot
of time engaged in things thatare not positively reinforcing
them and helping them moveforward, such as pornography,
such as a lot of screen time innegative forums there's a lot of
other negative forms out therethat are influencing people
(39:59):
horribly.
I hear about it regularly whenI see patients, and so I think,
when we think about those things, I believe that we need to put
the pause button on and say isthis something that I've got to
keep TV away from my kids?
Now I have to keep the iPadaway.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I can't let them do any kind of screen time.
How would you, how would youspeak to that?
Speaker 2 (40:35):
So I think, as a parent, it's very important with
younger children especially,you need to monitor what they do
.
You need to go on to yourcomputer, their computer, their
phones.
You need to have some parentalcontrols for the pre-adolescent
children, 100%, because theydon't have the ability as
pre-adolescents to makedecisions or to understand what
(40:58):
they should be seeing or whatthey should not be seeing, and
they can be so horribly impactedand traumatized literally
traumatized.
You know, we hear that phrase.
You can't unsee that.
Well, for a young brain, youreally can't unsee that and you
don't understand how it'simpacted you and you may not
even talk about it Withadolescents.
This is where you begin to talkwith them and try to help them
(41:22):
learn how to make choices.
You still need to have anawareness of what they're doing,
but it's important to educatethem.
I'm going to bring up somethingthat's kind of negative, but I'm
going to bring it up.
There's significant legalconsequences for adolescents to
be looking at porn orphotoshopping things in a
pornographic way and sendingthem over the phone or having
(41:45):
them on social media, becausethey can actually have legal
consequences for that and itcertainly can impact them in
many ways.
It can cause them to beexpelled from school.
It can call.
It can impact their future in away they don't realize.
We as adults sometimes think oh, if you do it before age 18,
(42:05):
it's not going to be an issue.
That's not true anymore.
And so, as you begin to and onething I'll tell you about teens
and I know you know this too,because you're the same way they
like being treated by us adults, as if they can think, because
the reality is they can.
They just may not have all theinformation or all the
(42:26):
experience yet to really knowhow to form decisions.
And that's where we come in.
That's right.
We come in to help give themthat information and then help
talk it through with them,answer their questions.
So what does this mean?
As a parent?
It means guess what?
You probably need to be mindfuland intentional about having
scheduled time with your teenswhere you're able to have these
(42:49):
discussions.
There are some people I seethat I will say okay, you've got
some significant things goingon.
I'd like you all to schedulethe timer for 15 minutes a night
, to start with after you eatdinner.
Why do I choose that time?
Dopamine levels also elevatewhen we eat, so we're in a
better mood after we've haddinner and we don't want anyone
(43:11):
having these conversations beinghangry.
We just don't.
So that's a good time.
I want you to set the timerwhere you will sit down
one-on-one.
That's going to be mom anddaughter time, or father and son
time, or mother and son time.
I tell people to switch it upwhere you're going to be sitting
down and talking about topicsand discussing them, and if you
want to exceed 15 minutes,that's fine.
(43:32):
I'm just saying that's theminimal amount of time I want
you to give this to begin withthis process.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Right, and what's fascinating is that 15 minutes
for a lot of people, I'm sure,feels like an eternity in the
beginning.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I hear that all the time and then do you know what I
hear?
After they've been doing it,they're able to reflect on that.
I've had parents say to meprivately, away from the
children, I didn't know how Iwas going to do that at first
and I had given them talkingpoints.
I said well, here's a talkingpoint.
Begin with asking what is areally good thing about your day
to day.
Make sure you start with that.
What is something that'shappened today that you didn't
(44:07):
know how to handle or thatbothered you?
I said usually, if you do thosethings, and then you as a
parent, I want you to beprepared to share one positive
thing about your day.
You don't really need to bringyour things you had to problem
solve into your teenager, butbring in something positive that
you noticed that day or youengaged with that day, in case
you need something to talk aboutto begin the conversation.
(44:29):
And so and they would say to menow I can sit down for 30 to 45
minutes and we talk much moreeasily I said isn't that
interesting how that happens?
Speaker 1 (44:40):
I love that.
I think that's brilliant.
One of the things that I wantto go back to is you know you
can't unsee that.
That is so true, and thedialectical here is you can't
unsee that and we know that ourskin regenerates about once a
(45:02):
month.
We learned, I would saydecently recent, that our brain
regenerates.
We didn't think it did, but ourbrain regenerates once every
three to five years.
I always say four years, andI'd love for you to touch on
neuroplasticity because-.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Oh, I love that concept and one thing I want to
say about that although you'reright, you can't unsee something
and you can't not remember atrauma we, because of what we've
learned with neuroplasticityand how the brain can regenerate
and even shift brain, brainchannels, we have learned ways
to work with people to help themreprocess those traumas start
(45:45):
offering, on a larger scalebasis, art accelerated
resolution therapy, because ithelps and aids the brain
reprocess what they've seen orthe trauma they've experienced,
so that it's not having thatdebilitating emotional and
(46:07):
psychological impact anymore.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Which is a wonderful thing.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yes, it is a wonderful thing.
I am both trained in EMDR andART and I will say this is just
my own personal preference.
But what I have seen with ARThas been unbelievably phenomenal
.
People who have lost closeloved ones, children who have
(46:33):
walked through and come to theother side, where they are able
to reconnect to the world againand it's the neuroplasticity of
that is just such a blessing togive these people back a
semblance of life.
No, it doesn't take the traumaaway to your point.
No, those things cannot beunseen.
(46:56):
The scar is always there.
But life can continue.
People say, oh, I'm going tomove on, you're asking me to
move on from this loved one andI'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
we're not asking you to move on,we're asking you to move with
because they are no longer inthe midst of death.
They are no longer in the midstof that pain and that horrific
(47:17):
thing.
Let's move with life to keepliving in a beautiful, glorious
way that, yes, we stillacknowledge that very horrific,
horrible thing occurred.
But, to your point, theplasticity of being able to move
with life and be able to leavethat in the background, what a
gift.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
I believe this type of therapy takes an active, open
, hurting wound that is keepingpeople from functioning, and
turns it into a healed scar.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
That's right.
It's like a suture.
That's a great way to say that.
Yeah, thank you so much forbeing with us.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Oh, it's my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
It's my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
We are both in the trenches together, working in
this world to try to help peoplelive better in a healthier way,
so they can live their bestlives.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yes, and I don't want to fail to mention, you have a
wonderful book.
Tell us about it.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
I have a book that is an easy read.
It's a short book.
It's called Master your StormInsights of a Psychiatrist and
Coach.
It is deliberately set up tohave bite-sized chapters that
you read, with takeaways andcoaching style questions to help
you work on what the issues youneed to be working on.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
And I will tell you it's brilliant and everyone
should pick one up.
Wherever you get books, amazon,wherever you buy your books,
pick one up, go through it,master your storm.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Because we all have one at some time we do.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Thank you, Dr A.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Thank you, lee, I appreciate being here.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
If you found value in our discussion and wish to
uncover more about thefascinating world of mental
wellness, don't forget tosubscribe to the podcast.
Stay tuned for our upcomingepisodes, where Dr Long will
continue to delve intoempowering therapies and
strategies for mental wellness.
Your journey to understandingand embracing mental health is
(49:12):
just beginning and we're excitedto have you with us every step
of the way.
Until next time, keep exploring, keep growing and remember to
celebrate restored freedom asyou uncover it.
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long, and today I'mjoined once again by Dr Deborah
Ackeson, a board-certifiedpsychiatrist and expert in
mental health.
In this episode, we're divinginto the fascinating world of
dopamine how it works in thebrain and its impact on everyday
(00:23):
life, from motivation andpleasure to focus and addiction.
We'll explore the role dopamineplays in our mental and
emotional well-being.
Whether you're looking tooptimize your brain health or
simply want to understandyourself better, this
conversation is packed withvaluable insights.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here.
(00:45):
Welcome, Dr A.
Speaker 2 (00:48):
Well, hi, it's great to be here talking with you.
Speaker 1 (00:50):
It's so great to have you back.
So today we're going to gothrough some information that
you and I have spoken to somedifferent audiences and crowds
prior, and that is the impact ofdopamine and social media and
pornography that that has on thebrain.
So welcome for that fun, lighttopic.
Speaker 2 (01:15):
Yes, you know.
Unfortunately, this is a topicthat I think more people should
be talking about more openlybecause it has become an
enormous problem in our society.
We were just chatting aboutthis that with the advent of
social media, which can be usedfor so much good, like your show
(01:37):
is and like a lot of otherplaces where we get information
there's also a side to socialmedia where people are having a
lot of information that's verynegative and dangerous come out
and it's causing significanttrauma, especially to our
younger adults and teenagers.
Speaker 1 (01:54):
Yeah, let's sit on that for a minute, when we think
about the significant traumathat it's causing them.
What are you seeing in yourpractice?
What are you seeing in yourpractice?
What are you seeing in your?
Speaker 2 (02:06):
experiences.
So the first thing I'm going tosay is I see teens and adults
who get engaged in this, andeven older adults, like in their
in their marital relationships.
They start becoming moreisolated from other people.
They're not as connected.
I'm seeing an impact.
This is a great warning sign.
When you see someone whoseinteractions with others have
(02:27):
become more limited, we knowthat there's a problem of some
kind.
We don't always know what it is.
Speaker 3 (02:33):
And so.
Speaker 2 (02:33):
I see that I see people become very guilty and
very shameful about the behaviorthey're engaged in, but
unfortunately on their ownthey're not able to break the
cycle.
So they live with this secretthat they have that they're
engaged in this addictiveprocess of pornography which is
(02:54):
impacting relationships, it'simpacting how they feel about
themselves and it's keeping themfrom doing anything to improve
their situation.
So they're sort of trapped init.
Speaker 1 (03:04):
Yeah, yeah it's.
It does seem like there's,there is a place of entrapment
for a lot of this.
Right, there's a there's ahijacking of our brains or it's
a hijacking of our behaviors.
Would you take us on a littletour of how, like how the mind
works with dopamine, so that wecan maybe bring our listeners up
(03:26):
to speed?
Speaker 2 (03:27):
on some of this, oh for sure.
So dopamine, and I believethere's an excellent book that's
been written about it, calledDopamine Nation.
Who is the author of that book,anna?
Speaker 1 (03:34):
Lemke, Dr Lemke.
Speaker 2 (03:36):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (03:37):
She has done a phenomenal job laying that out
there.
Speaker 2 (03:40):
Yes, that is a great book, so if anyone wants to take
a deeper dive into that, pleasecheck that book out.
What I would say about dopamine, though, is it is such an
essential chemical for us for somany reasons, and it's involved
in many things.
So if you begin by justthinking about, we feel
(04:06):
emotionally that feeling ofhappiness, excitement, all the
way to even movement functions.
Dopamine is involved in theability to move, for instance.
There's some neurologicaldisorders where people's
dopamine is very out of whack,such as Parkinson's syndrome.
People are probably familiarwith that, so it impacts our
brain.
There are neural pathways Ilike to think of them as
(04:30):
highways.
Some of them are super highwaysthat are running all across our
brain into different sectionsthat carry dopamine.
As humans, we want our dopaminelevels elevated, because it
makes us feel great, anddopamine is the chemical, for
instance, that goes through theroof.
When someone uses a drug likecocaine, it will really push the
dopamine levels high.
(04:51):
What people don't understandabout dopamine is that, as we
artificially push those levelshigher and higher, then becomes
an addictive process.
This happens in people who getinto intensive video gaming, for
instance.
You've heard about those peoplewho won't even stop to eat
because they are in this processof pushing the dopamine levels
higher and higher and they can'tbreak the cycle themselves.
(05:13):
Many addictions do this Porndoes.
This Porn makes your dopaminelevels higher and higher and, as
you've discussed before, whenpeople start engaging in it,
they have to keep pursuing itover and over.
Speaker 1 (05:26):
Right and the content gets more and more and more
intense.
You know you mentioned how theintensive gaming and how people
will not stop to eat.
I have even known and heard ofindividuals who will put on an
adult diaper so that they'rethey don't even have to stop to
use the restroom.
Speaker 2 (05:46):
Oh, my word.
Speaker 1 (05:47):
And you think about this.
We are designed, we're wired,we're designed for survival in a
world of scarcity, but we don'tlive in a world of scarcity
anymore.
And so you talking about thesedopamine hits that we're looking
for, it's like part of me looksat this world and thinks we're
kind of set up to fail.
Right, if we're looking at itin the negative, we're sort of
(06:10):
set up to fail because you knowhow do we communicate?
Many of our meetings are onzoom.
Thank, thank God and thank youfor being here today that we're
not on zoom, you know, but howmany?
But the?
But the idea of that, the ideaof of a, of a virtual meeting,
is actually quite helpful.
So here we are, using thissimilar technology.
(06:33):
That is both helpful, but atthe same time, it's like how do
we know when it's helpful andwhen it's harmful?
Right, because social media,like you said, sometimes it's
used for really positive things.
You know we can get messagesout to a large crowd to be
encouraging, to be, um, you know, informative, but at the same
(06:55):
time, there's other messagesthat are being put out there
that are very, very destructive.
I mean cyber bullying, right,all that.
So it's like where do we drawthe line, cause I don't.
I certainly don't want peopleto walk away from our discussion
feeling like, oh my gosh, Ineed to go, move to a farm and
not have a cell phone and, youknow, not engage in anything on
(07:16):
the Internet because it's allbad and evil.
And I know you're not sayingthat, but I just I'm curious,
what's your take on you?
Speaker 2 (07:23):
know it's interesting .
You bring that up because theword that comes to mind for me
as to what we all have to bemore mindful about is living
with intention, and so I believethat the things that are great
about social media we don'tthrow the baby out with the
bathwater.
I think what we do is that weare intentional about what we
(07:44):
choose to put into our brains,just like what we would choose
to eat to put into our bodies,and that we try to engage with
media that's informative andhelpful and positive and
inspiring.
I mean, you're on this with me.
I have a Facebook group calledMental Health Solutions
(08:05):
Community.
It's for people to shareinformation about mental health
so they can get data out therethat can be beneficial to people
.
We have rules about how we letthat group go.
I mean things such as that yourpodcast.
I have been amazed at thecontent that you've already
curated with this podcast aboutseveral different topics that
(08:26):
can be very beneficial to people.
I think we have to think aboutwhat we choose to use, and then
I think, of course, there'sareas of social media that are
just for fun.
Right, you want to keep up witheach other's family and friends
, those sorts of things.
There's some TikToks.
I mean other's family andfriends, those sorts of things.
(08:47):
There's some tick talks, I meanthere's I'll openly admit it,
he drops two to three minutetick talks.
This, uh, ophthalmologist, drglock and fleckham, where he
does parodies of the um,different medical specialties.
And since I work as a coachwith different physicians, uh, I
see a grain of truth in all ofthose and they make me laugh.
Speaker 1 (09:04):
Okay, I've got to hear his name again, so it's.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Dr Glockenfleck.
It has to do with he's anophthalmologist, Okay, but is
that his real name?
No, it's not his real name.
That's his.
That's what he.
That's his stage name.
That's his TikTok name.
Okay, I love it.
Speaker 1 (09:20):
One of the things that I want to come back to is
the what, what dopamine does,and and and and the impact on
our brains and bodies.
You know you brought up thefact of movement Right and how
Parkinson's is one of thoseplaces, that one of those
diseases that has the the impactof dopamine.
Does Parkinson's take dopamineaway Like?
(09:41):
Does it impact the dopaminergic?
Speaker 2 (09:46):
take dopamine away Like, does it impact the
dopaminergic.
So what happens, very sadly, isthere's centers in the brain
that have to do with movementand dopamine production and
dopamine dopamine productiondecreases and you do not have as
much dopamine as you had before.
So the drugs that are used totreat dopamine bring dopamine
levels up for the purpose ofmovement.
Speaker 1 (10:03):
And the sad thing that I've heard it's the it's
L-Dopa correct.
Is that's what they're using?
Is that there's it?
It, uh, causes very differentstyles of addiction to to pop up
in these people's lives.
Speaker 2 (10:18):
I'm so glad you brought that up because, um, if
anyone has a member in theirlives, a family member, who has
this, it might be helpful forthem to understand this about
this.
You can take people who havetheir entire life been very
rational, reasonable folks, whohave great self-control, no
addictive tendencies, and whenthey start taking the medicine
(10:39):
which they have to take to beable to function at all or to
move at all when they haveParkinson's disease, they will
sometimes get into almostmanic-like spending sprees.
A lot of spending online issomething that happens.
For instance, their abilitiesto make decisions can sometimes
become impaired.
I'm certainly not saying peoplewith Parkinson's are not
(11:01):
competent.
That's not what I'm saying.
I'm just saying it can impacttheir behaviors as a consequence
, sometimes, of the medicinesthey're taking.
Speaker 1 (11:10):
So, when you think about all of the like the world
that we're in and you thinkabout all of the dopamine
saturation that we experience,that it's these things are
coming at us so fast and furious, do you believe that there is a
part to the way that?
(11:32):
Let me say, do you believe thatthere's a part to how we show
up in society that is connectedto some of this, because I
really appreciate what you'resaying about the, the, uh, the
Parkinson's patients and how itjust gradually for some and
drastically for others, shiftstheir personality.
(11:54):
But I'm curious is, if you havea kid, a little kid, who starts
on an iPad, let's say, watchingvideos, do you believe that
that is slowly changing,potentially, the trajectory of
their personhood, of theirpersonality and who they are?
Speaker 2 (12:11):
100%.
I'm so glad you brought that upbecause if they are getting
involved and I think about someof the stories I've heard
recently I was telling you abouta fellow who, at nine, was
sitting on an iPad.
He made the comment that hisparents were struggling with a
number of issues at that time,so he frequently was placed on
(12:32):
an iPad, and this is a young manin his 20s and he might be a
knock.
He was innocuously looking atsomething one day and, boom,
here came a porn site that justpopped up.
He didn't know what it was, butof course he went down that
rabbit hole and just startedlooking at it and he talked
about the impact on him.
What I see happen to kids whohave excessive time with screens
(12:55):
of any sort whether they'regetting into negative sites like
porn, whether they're gettinginto other sites with lots of
aggression and violence theybegin to shift in a way that
they don't pick up oninteractions with other people.
They become less interested inhaving interactions with other
people, even to the point thatthe reality testing becomes a
(13:17):
little skewed.
And that's what I want to bringback to us talking about porn
in terms of young adults,children and young adults
looking at these images that arenot really real.
I mean, there's a lot ofphotoshopping, there's a lot of
staging.
There's a lot of unusual andbizarre things that are placed
in there that are really outsidethe realm of a typical, typical
(13:41):
sexual relationship.
Speaker 1 (13:43):
Yeah, and what's so interesting, what's so sad, is
that you know, like you said,they're very scripted and very
directed and there's cameraangles and shots of things, even
with as as you and I'vediscussed before with different
audiences is that, even with avery adventurous sex life, you
(14:03):
are not going to ever see someof the angles and videos of
what's on pornography.
Speaker 2 (14:13):
That's exactly correct.
I mean you won't.
I mean unless you have someone,when you're engaging in a
sexual relationship, who'sfilming and cropping and moving
things you're not going to.
I mean you'll be watching it ona screen but you're not going
to see it during the interaction.
And I think that leads a lot ofmen and women to have very
unrealistic ideas about what ahuman body should be looking
(14:38):
like or how it should befunctioning, and it's led to
ideas about beauty standards,for instance, that are just not
realistic.
Speaker 1 (14:45):
And we could press that, not just in pornography.
I mean, how many people send aphoto, or I should say, post a
photo online and they put itthrough a filter, and so
everything is put through afilter.
And I talk to a lot of peoplewho are going through dating and
(15:06):
, you know, searching for apartner, and they're dating
online and they look and theythink, okay, one of their
biggest questions is is thispicture filtered Right?
And so not only is it skewingit sexually, it's skewing it
aesthetically.
Speaker 2 (15:27):
Absolutely skewing it sexually.
It's skewing it umaesthetically absolutely well,
have you?
Have you noted all the crop upin terms of being able to have
ai headshots done?
I mean, it's amazing right it'samazing and it's really hard to
tell sometimes whether those arereal or not.
Have you you ever, forprofessional reasons, have you
ever met someone you were goingto engage with that you've maybe
been engaging with on aprofessional site like LinkedIn
(15:50):
or whatever, having discussionsabout mutual topics, and you all
were going to meet at a meeting, so you were looking for that
person based on what you wereseeing.
Yes, and it took a moment torealize.
Oh, I think that's who that is.
Speaker 1 (16:04):
Have you ever had that experience?
Yes, actually recently, andit's a little undoing.
Speaker 2 (16:10):
It is.
Speaker 1 (16:11):
To think, wow, you're representing yourself one way
and again it's like you knowthis individual was.
They were fine, they werelovely, and my thought is, oh, I
wish we all felt like we couldbe authentic.
Speaker 2 (16:25):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:26):
So dopamine is a big player in this arena, but so is
oxytocin, right.
Speaker 2 (16:35):
Oh yes.
Speaker 1 (16:35):
Anything you want to talk to us about with oxytocin?
Speaker 2 (16:38):
Oxytocin is an extremely important chemical for
relationships and bonding.
It even has a physical impacton another chemical so that when
women give birth they bond totheir babies like glue.
I think I had laughingly saidin one of the presentations that
we did.
You know, has everyone evernoticed that no matter what a
(17:01):
baby looks like, that motherthinks that it is the most
beautiful person who everexisted, and I believe I use the
phrase.
There are those babies thatsometimes only a mother could
initially love.
I believe all humans are ofgreat worth, no matter their
appearance.
Speaker 3 (17:18):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (17:19):
But mothers will look at those children like they are
the most beautiful baby ever.
Right, and let's be honestabout this.
I personally love babies.
I love babies, but most of themdon't look especially beautiful
the first day or two of birth.
But when you look at a mother'seyes when she receives that
baby, it's so powerful to watch,because that expression, the
(17:42):
intensity of that bonding andlove is there.
Oxytocin does that.
And so when one thing thathappens a lot in relationships
men and women are impacted byoxytocin, but men not to the
degree that women are, and I'vetold I cannot tell you how many
young adult women and adolescentgirls I've had sit in my office
who were completely shatteredand heartbroken because they had
(18:05):
fallen in love with a fellowand then they had intercourse
with them.
The active, a sexual encounterwith someone will elevate
oxytocin, and it does especiallyso for females.
They bond like glue, and sowith men they have that feeling
as well and it's a high, butit's not the same exactly as it
is for females.
(18:25):
That being said, it impactsboth, and so when you're
engaging with pornography, therelationship isn't with a person
Because, again, the reason forthat bonding is that oxytocin
surge is to bond therelationship.
It's one reason why, frankly, inmarital relationships it's
(18:46):
important.
A lot of married couples theyget to the point where they're
not engaging as much sexuallyI'm sure you've seen this
multiple times and it'simportant for them to engage
sexually.
It's like the glue that helpshold the relationship together.
It's important not justphysically, but it's important
for a lot, or a video, andthat's what they're engaging
with it begins to shift how theyrelate to other people in
(19:18):
general.
They're bonding to somethingthat's not three dimensional and
not real and it really canimpact their brain in a negative
way.
Speaker 1 (19:27):
What I've seen is that, speaking of impacting
their brain in a negative way,is we've talked about this term
a soul tie, and how difficultthat is to unwind.
That Because the expression ofoxytocin is released in the
brain at orgasm.
Speaker 2 (19:49):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (19:49):
And when labor is kicked in with the mother,
that's when the oxytocin isreleased.
And how beautiful that we'redesigned for the mother to have
the big surge of oxytocin thatis imparted to that child, so
that the baby and the motherhave that bonding time.
What a beautiful design.
Yes, and you see that thisgreater design is all about
(20:11):
relationship and all aboutconnecting, and these other
themes are all aboutdisconnecting.
Speaker 2 (20:19):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:19):
Because when you are experiencing let's say, you're
gaming online and you're doingall of these things and you're
conquering all these levels andyou're looking at social media
and you're being enticed or orenjoying all of these different
photos or or even on inpornography, when you're seeing
(20:41):
all of this sexual activity,it's like that is increasing the
dopamine, and then when youhave that physical release of an
orgasm, you're now connectingto something that isn't real.
Speaker 2 (20:54):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (20:55):
And when you think about that, it's actually
further disconnecting you fromyou, because you're not
discovering what it means to bea part of something greater than
you, meaning in a relationship.
Speaker 3 (21:08):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (21:08):
And I often look at the theme that I see that that
shows up in my office over andover and over again is the sense
of intrapersonal, or selfawareness.
I'm constantly outside of melooking at these images,
(21:31):
conquering these levels that areoutside of me, looking at this
pornography that is againoutside of me.
It's not teaching me anythingabout me.
So when I try to go into aninterpersonal which means self
plus others I don't know whatI'm bringing.
(21:51):
And when I don't have a self tobring to an interpersonal
interaction, I bring chaos,either internally or externally
to you and this is what I seeover and over and over again
sitting in my office is thatthere is this lack of sense of
self-awareness that thereforecontributes to a whole lot of
(22:13):
chaos, and that chaos varies.
It's on a spectrum, it'sdifferent.
That chaos may mean I feelreally insecure because I don't
look like the porn model.
I don't look like the pornmodel.
So I've got to, you know, makesure that I'm constantly moving
around in my clothes to makesure that they're setting me up
to look, look right as I airquote that but I'm bringing
(22:38):
something that is really notgoing to give the other person
the ability to connect to me,because there's really not a me
there to connect to.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
You know, how can we expect another person to connect
with us when we're notconnected to ourselves?
Speaker 1 (22:50):
That's exactly it.
Speaker 2 (22:51):
And so I think that level of self-connection, that
you have done a lot of work inthis area with the intrapersonal
relationship.
We need to know who we are, weneed to know what our values are
, we need to know what'simportant to us.
When I'm working with peopleand I'm coaching them, I always
ask them if they have their ownpersonal mission statement for
(23:13):
who they are and when they don't.
That's something we work onbecause it's something that I
want them to think about andreflect upon and it's not being
selfish.
I've often had someone say youmean, working on yourself?
Isn't that selfish?
Absolutely not, because the moregrounded you are the more in
touch with who you are, the moreyou have to bring to all of
(23:35):
your relationships with theirromantic partners, work partners
, people you're taking care of,your children, your family.
You have that to bring.
You know.
We've talked about these typesof things and I think one thing
as we discuss this is I thinkit's important for us to think
about the hope that people canhave, and this is where I think
(23:58):
getting information out usingpositive media media information
, like you use your podcast is away to help people understand
this.
We have the ability now todisseminate information that
people can use in such a goodway.
So when you talk about theintra-psychic, you know part of
who you are, the intra-personalpart of who you are.
What would you advise peopleyourself to begin to work on
(24:21):
that process, because I thinkthere may be someone listening
today that says I'm not sure howI get started with this.
Speaker 1 (24:29):
I think that's brilliant.
You know, the first thing thatI tell anybody who sits down in
my office is where are you inthat and in that being whatever
it is we're discussing?
So if it's, you know, gosh, I'mdoom scrolling on Twitter every
night looking at all thepolitical goings on and it
(24:50):
stresses me out Great.
Where are you in that?
What are you looking for, whatare you experiencing?
In other words, it's bringingyou to a place of mindfulness,
and mindfulness is just mostsimply stated.
Mindfulness is just anawareness, an awareness of what
is what's around you and yourexperience of it.
(25:11):
And as they walk through thatsense of mindfulness, what they
have found and it's what'sreally neat is when someone is
sitting there and saying, youknow, I don't know, well, it's
because my kids are.
Oh, it's because my partner, oh, it's because and I'm like Whoa
, come back to you.
And, like you said, there's alot of times there's often,
(25:32):
often, especially, people offaith traditions.
I thought that that was selfishand wrong to focus on me, and I
, and I, like you, will helpthem see and hopefully help them
see that if I don't know me,how can I bring me to we?
So am I?
Am I quite useful.
(25:53):
I hate to make it this, thisdirect, but am I quite useful if
I don't bring me to a situation?
Then what am I?
What do I?
What am I offering?
Speaker 2 (26:05):
Right, that's exactly spot on, lee.
It really is.
I'm going to comment about themindfulness portion because that
, I think, is a foundation forworking on your interpersonal
self.
Yeah, I believe everyone and wetalked about intention earlier
and what are things people cando so everyone can decide to
take a few minutes a day to lookat themselves from a
(26:29):
mindfulness perspective.
You're exactly right,mindfulness is a very simple
it's being aware of who you are,how you feel, where you are in
the moment, in the present.
That's right and people have toslow down and take five to ten
minutes a day to practice.
This I often recommend topeople when I'm working with
(26:50):
them.
One of the things I'm going toask you to do is spend ten
minutes a day on you, just tenminutes where you're doing a
mindfulness practice and we talkabout what that could be.
And so there's differentbreathing techniques.
I box breathing is one that'stalked about techniques.
I box breathing is one that'stalked about.
I like to do counted breathing,where people count to a certain
number, then they inhale andexhale to regulate their
(27:11):
breathing.
That's another way to do that.
We talk about visual imageryreally thinking about where you
are in that moment.
And then the other thing I'mgoing to say about mindfulness,
because you mentioned faithtraditions.
That I think is reallyfascinating to me.
Prayer is a way to be mindful.
Whatever your faith traditionis, prayer is a very helpful way
(27:41):
to be mindful how we work.
We were actually set up in away so that we are being mindful
and we're having a mindfulnesspractice through prayer or
spiritual disciplines such asmeditation.
There's a book that was writtenin like the 13th century, I
believe, called the Cloud ofUnknowing.
It was by a monk who is notidentified.
(28:02):
If you read that, he's talkingabout mindfulness, and so this
is something in all of our faithtraditions that has been
present forever, but we haven'tlabeled it, and so that's
another way people can bringmindfulness in to their daily
practice.
There's different ways to do it.
Speaker 1 (28:22):
I love that and thank you for giving such practical
ideas of how to be mindful.
I think that's so helpful.
I think, too, when we asparents, if we have teenagers
who are, they look, let's justface it, teenagers feel
disconnected because they aredevelopmentally, are going
(28:43):
through very similar, a verysimilar developmental stage to
what toddlers go through.
Speaker 2 (28:49):
That is right.
Speaker 1 (28:49):
Right, it's, it's that independence, it's seeking
that sense of independence.
Toddlers are doing it on a on amore gross scale or a rougher
scale, I guess I would say,where they're looking for bodily
independence.
They just want to tie their ownshoes, they want to pour their
own shoes, they want to pourtheir own milk, they want to,
you know, get their own snack.
(29:10):
Where teenagers are looking forit more on an intra personal
sense of I want to be my ownperson and I think about like
how then can we as parents or oreven as authority figures, or
or or mentors, how can we guidethese teenagers through?
And I think a lot of it isteaching the teenager to be
(29:33):
mindful.
Speaker 2 (29:34):
I'm so glad you're bringing this up.
There's actually some brainchanges that happen during the
teen years.
There's a term for it.
We call it pruning Right.
Some of the neurons that are nolonger needed are not there and
they're pruned away, and thenothers develop and myelinate
more.
The brain is not fullymyelinated or developed.
so you're in your mid-20s and soinsurance companies knew about
(29:56):
that I think you're right aboutthat, and so I think that, with
teenagers, if we can begin toteach them some very basic
skills of self-regulation, whichinvolves mindfulness
Mindfulness is what you startwith Then they can learn some
self-regulation skills, ways todeal with those emotions, such
(30:18):
as anger, frustration, sadness,and I think what I would
encourage any parent or anyadult who works with teens today
to be thinking about.
I would encourage any parent orany adult who works with teens
today to be thinking about thesethings that we sort of take for
granted because we've beendoing them for a while, in terms
of taking a breath, or hittingthe pause button internally and
not immediately responding.
(30:39):
Or when you write that email,read the email first before you
hit the button.
Or when you do a social mediapost post, don't just put it out
there yet till you take aminute to reflect on it and how
it's going to be perceived.
These are all things that teensare not aware of right and it's
what fuels a lot of thesometimes what can feel like
(30:59):
chaos going on with them andtheir relationships.
We can actually teach themthese things by discussing them
directly with them when we didthe conversation and the
presentation with young adultsrelated to pornography.
We had some great questions andthey really wanted to hear our
thoughts about how to deal withcertain things.
(31:21):
That's right.
And these are not things wewould have opened a conversation
with them about.
They ask us the question.
That's right.
I would encourage all adults torealize we have a lot to pass
on to the younger generation andwe can help them.
Speaker 1 (31:36):
Boy Ken, yes, yes, and it's taking the risk to
reach out or to open thediscussion with them.
And I'm so glad you're pointingthat out.
And I go back to and sorry tobeat the tar out of this, but I
go back to the whole idea as aparent, as an authority figure,
(31:58):
as a mentor.
If we don't know us, if wedon't know ourselves, if we're
not aware of what thesequestions are doing to us, or
what had the impact of socialmedia, pornography, you know,
gaming, those types, these other, these younger folks, we're
probably not, we're probablygoing to go toward them with
(32:32):
chaos.
Speaker 2 (32:33):
You could not be more right, and I'm so glad you hit
the pause on that and emphasizethat before we start working
with them we have to know who weare, how we cope, how we manage
and be aware of maybe whatwe've done in our lives that
hasn't been healthy, or whatwe're even doing today.
I mean, I'll be the first tosay it's easy for me when I
(32:55):
start reading about certainmedical things, I'll go to one
and I'll go to another and Iwill spend more time doing that
than I had intended.
So I mean, one check I do formyself is check my phone to see
how much time have I been doingon these sorts of things.
That's one thing that piece ofa device will give to you.
It will give you informationabout that and you need to check
(33:16):
it and look at it and be aware.
Speaker 1 (33:18):
I love that.
One of the things that I do isthat when I feel stressed, I
noticed that I picked my phoneup and I start looking at things
, like I may look at Twitter, Imay look at whatever, and I'm
realizing when I pick up myphone, where am I?
What am I experiencing rightnow?
Okay, I'm experiencing somestress, so I'm gonna put that
(33:40):
down.
I'm going to think through whatam I stressed about?
How can I impact thatdifferently?
This may take me a minute, likejust a series of questions that
take about a minute to gothrough.
It's just where am I?
What am I experiencing?
Is there anything?
Is there an agency or a senseof power that I have over this
(34:01):
topic, or whatever?
It is Like if, if, if.
I'm looking at it and I'msaying, okay, I'm stressed
because it's it's raining and Iknow that I wanted to go to a
baseball game this afternoon.
It's like, well, okay, it'sraining, can I do anything about
that?
No, can I do anything If thegame is canceled?
No, but I can think ofalternative things that I could
do.
That's fun, great, I don't.
I'm not going to find that onTwitter or X, whatever it's
(34:24):
called.
Now, you know what I'm saying,and so it's like, okay, don't
avoid that, don't avoid thatfeeling, move through that, own
it and come up with a solutionthat fits you.
Speaker 2 (34:36):
And that is such an important point we, as people,
want to avoid the full emotionalrange of feelings that we're
meant to have.
Speaker 1 (34:45):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (34:46):
There's something very rewarding about taking a
moment if you're frustrated oryou're sad, and asking yourself
that question why am I feelingthe way I am right now, in this
moment, and realizing why youcan actually learn something
about yourself and you can learnsomething that is important to
(35:08):
you.
I mean, I'll just tell you,this past week, two years ago,
an extremely close friend ofmine died this past week and I
had found myself this weekthinking of her.
She just kept coming to mind.
I think about her frequently,but she kept wonderful, human.
She kept coming to mind.
And then, on the day that shehad died, I noted I don't have
(35:30):
this marked on my calendar, Ijust noted that day I was grumpy
and irritable and I stopped andI thought why are you feeling
this way?
And in that moment I thought ohyes, this is the day that she
left us two years ago.
It's a bit of an anniversaryreaction and I'll tell you what
I did.
I paused, I took a breath and Ithought to myself and what
(35:52):
would my dear friend, who isalso a therapist, what would she
want me to be doing at thismoment?
She would want me to thinkabout something that we talked
about or that we did.
That was funny, and so in thatmoment I recounted a very
positive memory of her as a wayof paying tribute to that
relationship.
So you know, when you thinkabout the intrapersonal, I had
(36:16):
an interpersonal relationshipwith someone who brought me
positive things intrapersonally.
Speaker 1 (36:22):
Right.
Thank you for sharing thatbecause you're wow, what an
example.
Because that's the beauty thatwe're designed for in connection
is that we have an experienceinterpersonally, meaning between
self and another person, andhow that impacts us, changes us.
How that impacts us, changes usand, in this case, changes us
(36:48):
or changes you for the positive.
It was such a beautiful impactand you think about how you walk
through that now that she's nolonger here with us on this
earth, and it's bringing,bringing her back up into it's.
It's bringing the intrapersonal, the interpersonal into the
(37:08):
intrapersonal, which soundsbackwards, meaning bringing the
others back up into the self,meaning you reminded yourself
what were some of the beautifulthings that you shared together
Funny stories, funny things,things that she would have
enjoyed, that y'all would haveenjoyed.
Speaker 2 (37:26):
Things that you learn and grow from in the
relationship, throughdiscussions, through activities.
I mean that's whererelationship is so important.
Speaker 1 (37:41):
Right Social media technology, especially
pornography, video gaming.
Anything that takes you andisolates you from the world
isolates you, not separates you.
Isolates you from the world,does damage to our sense of self
(38:02):
.
Speaker 2 (38:03):
It does and it's insidious.
We don't realize it's happening.
It's like a thief who steals alittle bit from us each day over
time.
That's, if we're putting thosenegative types of influences
inside of us, we are bringingthose inside of us.
On the flip side, when we allowourselves some time, it has to
(38:25):
be balanced, just like we allowourselves balanced time or we
should be to get adequateexercise in to make sure we're
eating adequately, we'resleeping adequately, all those
basic things you know we grew uphearing they're actually real.
We do need to do those things tobe able to function well and
stay healthy.
But also from our psychologicaland emotional and relationship
(38:47):
health and, I believe, ourspiritual health, we need to
think about what we allowourselves to ingest, because
whatever we're having arelationship with, or whoever
we're having a relationship with, it's going to have a feedback
on us and impact us internally.
So it impacts thatintrapersonal relationship.
Speaker 1 (39:09):
Boy, that is so well said and I always think about
you know you are who you hangaround with, like right.
Your mama always said thatright, you are who you hang
around with, and I think there'sa lot of truth to that, to your
point and at this point in life, at this point in our culture,
it's you are what you spend themajority of your time with.
(39:31):
It may not be who you hang outwith, it may be what you fill
your time with.
Speaker 2 (39:37):
Yes, and I think people lose sight of that.
They lose sight of the factthat if they're spending a lot
of time engaged in things thatare not positively reinforcing
them and helping them moveforward, such as pornography,
such as a lot of screen time innegative forums there's a lot of
other negative forms out therethat are influencing people
(39:59):
horribly.
I hear about it regularly whenI see patients, and so I think,
when we think about those things, I believe that we need to put
the pause button on and say isthis something that I've got to
keep TV away from my kids?
Now I have to keep the iPadaway.
Speaker 1 (40:30):
I can't let them do any kind of screen time.
How would you, how would youspeak to that?
Speaker 2 (40:35):
So I think, as a parent, it's very important with
younger children especially,you need to monitor what they do
.
You need to go on to yourcomputer, their computer, their
phones.
You need to have some parentalcontrols for the pre-adolescent
children, 100%, because theydon't have the ability as
pre-adolescents to makedecisions or to understand what
(40:58):
they should be seeing or whatthey should not be seeing, and
they can be so horribly impactedand traumatized literally
traumatized.
You know, we hear that phrase.
You can't unsee that.
Well, for a young brain, youreally can't unsee that and you
don't understand how it'simpacted you and you may not
even talk about it Withadolescents.
This is where you begin to talkwith them and try to help them
(41:22):
learn how to make choices.
You still need to have anawareness of what they're doing,
but it's important to educatethem.
I'm going to bring up somethingthat's kind of negative, but I'm
going to bring it up.
There's significant legalconsequences for adolescents to
be looking at porn orphotoshopping things in a
pornographic way and sendingthem over the phone or having
(41:45):
them on social media, becausethey can actually have legal
consequences for that and itcertainly can impact them in
many ways.
It can cause them to beexpelled from school.
It can call.
It can impact their future in away they don't realize.
We as adults sometimes think oh, if you do it before age 18,
(42:05):
it's not going to be an issue.
That's not true anymore.
And so, as you begin to and onething I'll tell you about teens
and I know you know this too,because you're the same way they
like being treated by us adults, as if they can think, because
the reality is they can.
They just may not have all theinformation or all the
(42:26):
experience yet to really knowhow to form decisions.
And that's where we come in.
That's right.
We come in to help give themthat information and then help
talk it through with them,answer their questions.
So what does this mean?
As a parent?
It means guess what?
You probably need to be mindfuland intentional about having
scheduled time with your teenswhere you're able to have these
(42:49):
discussions.
There are some people I seethat I will say okay, you've got
some significant things goingon.
I'd like you all to schedulethe timer for 15 minutes a night
, to start with after you eatdinner.
Why do I choose that time?
Dopamine levels also elevatewhen we eat, so we're in a
better mood after we've haddinner and we don't want anyone
(43:11):
having these conversations beinghangry.
We just don't.
So that's a good time.
I want you to set the timerwhere you will sit down
one-on-one.
That's going to be mom anddaughter time, or father and son
time, or mother and son time.
I tell people to switch it upwhere you're going to be sitting
down and talking about topicsand discussing them, and if you
want to exceed 15 minutes,that's fine.
(43:32):
I'm just saying that's theminimal amount of time I want
you to give this to begin withthis process.
Speaker 1 (43:37):
Right, and what's fascinating is that 15 minutes
for a lot of people, I'm sure,feels like an eternity in the
beginning.
Speaker 2 (43:45):
I hear that all the time and then do you know what I
hear?
After they've been doing it,they're able to reflect on that.
I've had parents say to meprivately, away from the
children, I didn't know how Iwas going to do that at first
and I had given them talkingpoints.
I said well, here's a talkingpoint.
Begin with asking what is areally good thing about your day
to day.
Make sure you start with that.
What is something that'shappened today that you didn't
(44:07):
know how to handle or thatbothered you?
I said usually, if you do thosethings, and then you as a
parent, I want you to beprepared to share one positive
thing about your day.
You don't really need to bringyour things you had to problem
solve into your teenager, butbring in something positive that
you noticed that day or youengaged with that day, in case
you need something to talk aboutto begin the conversation.
(44:29):
And so and they would say to menow I can sit down for 30 to 45
minutes and we talk much moreeasily I said isn't that
interesting how that happens?
Speaker 1 (44:40):
I love that.
I think that's brilliant.
One of the things that I wantto go back to is you know you
can't unsee that.
That is so true, and thedialectical here is you can't
unsee that and we know that ourskin regenerates about once a
(45:02):
month.
We learned, I would saydecently recent, that our brain
regenerates.
We didn't think it did, but ourbrain regenerates once every
three to five years.
I always say four years, andI'd love for you to touch on
neuroplasticity because-.
Speaker 2 (45:22):
Oh, I love that concept and one thing I want to
say about that although you'reright, you can't unsee something
and you can't not remember atrauma we, because of what we've
learned with neuroplasticityand how the brain can regenerate
and even shift brain, brainchannels, we have learned ways
to work with people to help themreprocess those traumas start
(45:45):
offering, on a larger scalebasis, art accelerated
resolution therapy, because ithelps and aids the brain
reprocess what they've seen orthe trauma they've experienced,
so that it's not having thatdebilitating emotional and
(46:07):
psychological impact anymore.
Speaker 1 (46:09):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (46:09):
Which is a wonderful thing.
Speaker 1 (46:11):
Yes, it is a wonderful thing.
I am both trained in EMDR andART and I will say this is just
my own personal preference.
But what I have seen with ARThas been unbelievably phenomenal
.
People who have lost closeloved ones, children who have
(46:33):
walked through and come to theother side, where they are able
to reconnect to the world againand it's the neuroplasticity of
that is just such a blessing togive these people back a
semblance of life.
No, it doesn't take the traumaaway to your point.
No, those things cannot beunseen.
(46:56):
The scar is always there.
But life can continue.
People say, oh, I'm going tomove on, you're asking me to
move on from this loved one andI'm like, no, no, no, no, no,
we're not asking you to move on,we're asking you to move with
because they are no longer inthe midst of death.
They are no longer in the midstof that pain and that horrific
(47:17):
thing.
Let's move with life to keepliving in a beautiful, glorious
way that, yes, we stillacknowledge that very horrific,
horrible thing occurred.
But, to your point, theplasticity of being able to move
with life and be able to leavethat in the background, what a
gift.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
I believe this type of therapy takes an active, open
, hurting wound that is keepingpeople from functioning, and
turns it into a healed scar.
Speaker 1 (47:47):
That's right.
It's like a suture.
That's a great way to say that.
Yeah, thank you so much forbeing with us.
Speaker 2 (47:57):
Oh, it's my pleasure.
Speaker 1 (47:58):
It's my pleasure.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
We are both in the trenches together, working in
this world to try to help peoplelive better in a healthier way,
so they can live their bestlives.
Speaker 1 (48:09):
Yes, and I don't want to fail to mention, you have a
wonderful book.
Tell us about it.
Speaker 2 (48:14):
I have a book that is an easy read.
It's a short book.
It's called Master your StormInsights of a Psychiatrist and
Coach.
It is deliberately set up tohave bite-sized chapters that
you read, with takeaways andcoaching style questions to help
you work on what the issues youneed to be working on.
Speaker 1 (48:32):
And I will tell you it's brilliant and everyone
should pick one up.
Wherever you get books, amazon,wherever you buy your books,
pick one up, go through it,master your storm.
Speaker 2 (48:45):
Because we all have one at some time we do.
Speaker 1 (48:48):
Thank you, Dr A.
Speaker 2 (48:49):
Thank you, lee, I appreciate being here.
Speaker 3 (48:51):
If you found value in our discussion and wish to
uncover more about thefascinating world of mental
wellness, don't forget tosubscribe to the podcast.
Stay tuned for our upcomingepisodes, where Dr Long will
continue to delve intoempowering therapies and
strategies for mental wellness.
Your journey to understandingand embracing mental health is
(49:12):
just beginning and we're excitedto have you with us every step
of the way.
Until next time, keep exploring, keep growing and remember to
celebrate restored freedom asyou uncover it.
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