February 12, 2025 • 47 mins
Unlock the secrets to creating meaningful and lasting relationships with our latest episode featuring Dr. Lee Long and co-host Lila Pond. You'll gain valuable insights into understanding the essence of self-awareness and how it serves as the cornerstone of any healthy connection. From dissecting the impact of false beliefs on self-perception to navigating the complexities of empathy, we challenge you to rethink the way you approach intimacy and promises of change in relationships.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long, and in thisepisode I'm joined by my co-host
and relationship guru, lilaPond.
She's a licensed professionalcounselor and supervisor here at
Restoration Counseling.
Today we're diving into a topicthat affects all of us dating
(00:24):
and relationships.
Together, we'll explorereal-world applications for
building healthy relationships,navigating challenges and
fostering emotional well-beingin dating.
Whether you're single, in arelationship or just looking to
improve your approach toconnection, this conversation
(00:45):
offers valuable insights andpractical takeaways.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So welcome today for our podcast here at Restoration
Beyond the Couch, and our guesttoday is Dr Lee Long and myself,
so I guess we're likeco-hosting today and co-guesting
, co-guest, co-host.
I love it, that's right, allright, and both of us are
(01:13):
actively seeing clients andworking with people, and today's
topic is something that hascome up quite often and we
wanted to present it as a forumof thought.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yes, yes, and our topic today is dating and
relationships.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
That's a big one.
It's a big one.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So, before we dive into the idea of finding the
right person, I think it'sappropriate I think both of us
have decided it's appropriatefor us to talk about how we find
ourselves.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Very key.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's fascinating that we spend so much time thinking
about what we want in a partner,but how little time we spend
understanding who we are and whywe want the things that we're
looking for out of a partner.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You know that's so important and so often it is
turned into a checklist insteadof traits and connection places.
And how do we connect to oneanother?
Where are the points that giveus connection?
How can I feel safe with aperson?
Do I view myself as valuable inthis equation or am I just
(02:30):
trying to please someone else?
Those are all heavy things.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
They are big things.
One of the things I think thatthe place that I want us to
start, that we both have decidedis the best place to start, is
that understanding of us, and wetalk about it in the terms of
intra-personal awareness, orthat's just kind of a fancy way
(02:56):
of saying self-awareness, and dowe have that?
Do we bring that to the table?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Is it okay to point out that in that self-awareness,
we have to be able to separateout false beliefs and views of
ourself that lead to theseinsecurities?
Is that what you mean byintrapersonal, that we've also
got to get down to what's reallytrue?
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And the sense of our value set, our value system, is
really key and pivotal to that.
I believe in God and God is mycenter point, the place that I
go to to understand who am Iaccording to who he says I am.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
And I know that you hold a similar value set
Absolutely, but say more aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
How does that help you define you inside of you?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I think our values define us in the sense that we
know that's, that's kind of thatanchor point.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
When, when God created man, he said very good.
Or mankind, he said very good,right, and so we cannot have an
origin point of understandingourselves as anything other than
we're good.
So what does that good looklike?
Where do we begin with that?
We're good, so what does thatgood look like?
(04:26):
Where do we begin with that?
What are the unique things thatwe're gifted in, that we were
given as gifting points?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
and that doesn't mean that you don't make mistakes.
It doesn't mean that you don'tat times fall short of those
gifting points.
I don't know about you, butmost of us, our best attribute
is also our biggest potential,achilles heel.
Yes, exactly, or it's the flip.
(04:53):
There's a flip side, right.
So I could be sensitive andthat could be a gift and a very
good quality and I could stepover the line and it could
become something that could tripme up in a relationship with
myself and with someone else.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yes, and one of the things that I've seen is that
you know you can have the giftof empathy, of that care for
others, right, that ability tosee into a situation beyond just
you.
But the flip side of that is,where are you?
You can over empathize, you canover give of yourself, you can
(05:34):
overdo, you can, you caninternalize and interpret things
in a way that maybe aren'tappropriate.
Because there's two things kindof colliding in my mind here is
that, um, why are women morelikely to burn out or what?
And it's typically because it'smothers are more likely to burn
(05:56):
out.
Likely to burn out is becauseyou know, from the get go,
mothers are oriented towardtheir children to be giving, to
be understanding, to besearching for what they need.
And then, as that child grows,does the mother also inversely
(06:17):
grow away from meaning givingthe that space for that kid to
be independent?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Boy.
That is so powerful becausewhat happens is that all of a
sudden, identity becomes what Ido, and that's when we get.
I know this may not sound likeit's connected to dating, but it
is so important in dating,because if it's all about what I
(06:44):
do, how I look or what how Iperform, then I'm in charge of
the outcome, right.
And so mothers with childrenwe're told from the minute we
find out we're expecting, we'retold oh, you don't eat this,
don't do that, sleep on thisside, sleep this way, don't be
around smoke, don't get yourheart rate over a certain amount
(07:04):
.
In other words, you're incharge of the outcome, or so it
seems.
And then a big key factor is Ihave to keep them alive, right.
And so then that can oftentranslate into over-caring or
over-identifying with an outcome.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Absolutely, and that whole idea of it's my job to
keep them alive, then at whatpoint is there a transfer to now
it's your job to keep you alive?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And isn't that powerful in the intrapersonal
impact of knowing yourself?
Is that, yes, at a certainpoint, okay, I may not.
May, I do play a part inkeeping the relationship alive.
However, we both play a part inthat.
(07:59):
So you talked aboutself-awareness and I think that
has to then lead intoself-acceptance.
I can accept the fact that youknow I've got some shortcomings
and that's okay.
I can be aware of them, I canaccept them.
Then I can take action, I canwork on me, but it doesn't
(08:21):
change my identity or my value,right, and that's where
confidence comes in.
That's where we can stand safein the knowledge of who we are
and what we bring to therelationship.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I think you're spot on on and I think that being
confident and staying safe inwhat we are understanding, our
safety, that what we bring intothe relationship, I think is a
real pivotal understandingbefore you begin to date, it is
having your house in order.
I think, at the same time, ifyou're young, it's having your
(09:04):
house in order to the point atwhich you understand.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Your ability, there you go.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
And I think it's as we grow older in our brain we
physically mature Right that wehave a greater capacity to have
our house in order.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Exactly.
I don't know about you guys outthere in the world or you, lee,
but I know that I can put myhouse in order, but it gets out
of order very quickly because weget in a rush, I get in a rush,
or somebody else gets in thekitchen and moves the pots or
the pans, right, but there'salways the ability to come back
to order.
(09:39):
But I got to know what my orderis right.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yes, I love your analogy about your kitchen,
because you have a place forthose pots, right.
You have a place where yoursilverware goes, where your
towels go.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Gosh, I hope my husband's listening to this.
There is a place right.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And that's that process of knowing who I am.
I know where my proverbial potsgo, I know where my proverbial
silverware goes inside of who Iam.
And knowing who you are, Ithink is very important because
when you are picking a person apartner, a date, a mate you're
(10:17):
picking someone who is they maybe very different from you and
you do not want to always bemoving your silverware drawer
around your kitchen to matchsomebody else because that's
what they want around, or thatwe move ourselves around in a
(10:49):
relationship so that we'reaccommodating to somebody else
as opposed to joining somebodyelse.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, that is so good .
And the process of knowingmyself is a lifelong process.
It matures, we become moresecure in areas that perhaps we
were insecure in at a youngerage.
We began to realize that thesefalse core beliefs are not the
(11:19):
truth.
Just because the teacher yelledat one of us, or because
perhaps we were called a certainthing as a kid bullying,
whatever planted, that itdoesn't mean we have to carry,
that we grow in the process ofnot negotiating who we are with
(11:40):
other people.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I love the way you said that it is not negotiating
who we are as a person as wejoin with somebody people.
I love the way you said that itis not negotiating who we are
as a person as we join withsomebody else.
Right, Because one of thethings that I find, and I think
you would agree, is that when,when we have a to use your
terminology the false corebelief that we're walking around
(12:02):
with, that we're scattered orwe're stupid or we're lazy, we
will tend to gravitate to peoplewho are happy to press that
button to show us yes you arestupid.
Yes, you are, because we'relooking for that.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Or they may not even realize they've just stepped on
a landmine.
That's right.
And so what happens is our bodybegins to respond.
We then get the idea that theymeant to do, that.
We start coming to all theseconclusions assumptive
conclusions about what someoneelse may or may not be thinking,
(12:46):
and then we've disrupted therelationship, and they may not
have intended to.
And then there are those who dointend to, right.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yes, and that's where it comes to the interpersonal
awareness.
Is that the intrapersonal isknowing what we bring to the
table, knowing where ourlandmines are, and the
interpersonal awareness is whatthat dynamic between us and
another is going to illuminateor bring to the table.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
if somebody either intends to or unintentionally
steps on a personal landmine forus, I like to think of it, lee,
as I know we use the termtriggers, and triggers are
external.
If we can keep that in mind inour dating lives or in our
relational interactions thatthese triggers, we can't control
(13:41):
them, we can't always predictthem.
Sometimes we might be able to.
However, they're external, sothat's an uncontrollable thing.
But what happens inside is anactivation of something very,
very significant about ourself.
(14:02):
So if we have that activationsite of I'm safe and I'm
valuable, if we have those twoactivation sites secured, then
when we get triggered we're lesslikely to be as intensely.
It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
It just means we manage thehurt from a vantage point of
(14:24):
self-acceptance and self-love.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
And I think that's I'm so glad you brought that up
and that's a brilliant way toconceptualize that, and I think
the way it shows it practicallyshows up.
An example is if you're in arelationship with somebody and
you say something to them, theygo in your, your activating site
(14:50):
is I'm not that smart?
And they're dismissive of um,that's, that's stupid.
I don't.
I don't think that.
I don't.
I don't think that's true.
Where'd you read that?
What article are you listeningto?
Is that site real?
And they start challenging yourinformation, it, it, we are.
There's that wiring there to goback to.
(15:10):
Oh my gosh, yeah, I'm stupid.
Here's an.
Here's an example of how stupidI am and that one of the things
I think that we're, that we'reencouraging you to do, is sit
with that for a second.
Understand what's going on here.
Where am I in the midst of thischaotic storm?
Am I stupid?
No, I know that I'm not right,because I'm self aware.
(15:33):
I know now I may be ignorant tothis topic, but even if I'm
ignorant, I'm smart enough tounderstand, and by ignorant I
mean unlearned.
I mayed, I may just not havethe exposure to it.
But what do I want to do next?
Is I want to slow down, askmyself, no, I'm not stupid.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I may be ignorant.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
But what can I learn from this?
Because I'm not stupid thatcore belief is not something
that's true, it's a false corebelief.
Not something that's true, it'sa false core belief, Right.
Therefore, if it's a, if it's a, if it's a pain point between
you and your partner or thepotential partner person that
you're dating, then you want tostep back and say hold on a
(16:18):
second.
I let's talk about this.
Let's, let's, let me get my myfeet underneath me here.
Hey, when I heard those words,that's, that's so stupid.
You don't, you don't know thesethings, but it really hit
something in me and andeverything in me shut down and
wanted to fight.
There you go.
And so could we talk about thisa different way?
(16:41):
And it's engaging them.
But, but the key here is and Ithink this gets overlooked often
is not, we do not, do not protip, do not go into this saying,
hey, you are being so mean tome, you are triggering me, you
are making this about, becausewhat are you doing?
(17:02):
You are making it about themright.
When we make conflict aboutanother person, that we're going
to typically be met withdefense.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Therefore, just show up you and say wait a second.
This is where this is impactingme.
Was that your intent?
If it wasn't your intent, thenlet's move your.
Let's try to work the impact tomatch the intent a little bit
better.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Oh, that's so good and so powerful, because what
we're doing is we're becomingmore flexible and less rigid.
When we get defensive, we getrigid because we're defending
ourself, right when we getdefensive, we get rigid because
we're defending ourself right,and yet it's inviting another
person to help me see myself andto inform them of who I really
(17:55):
am Right and it takes us.
I know this is may sound odd tosome folks, but I hope everyone
will hear this and take it toheart, but we all have a
tendency to go to our childbrain and not our adult brain,
especially when our identity hasbeen challenged or we feel like
(18:16):
our value has been compromised.
In other words, it's one ofyour famous sayings what does
that say to you about you?
That's right, right.
And if we'll ask ourself thatquestion OK, what is this saying
to me about me?
Then we'll be less likely tosay you are making me so angry.
Well, yeah, hold on a second.
(18:36):
I'm allowing myself to getreally angry about this because
in my head, this narrative, thestory I'm telling myself, is you
think I'm stupid?
I know, do you mind if Iinterject an example here?
And this is okay, sorry, dad inheaven, but my dad told me
(18:58):
every dumb blonde joke thatthere was on the planet, from
the time I was little until, ohgosh, I was probably in my
forties and I said that's enough, right, but that's a long time.
And for our listeners who aren'tseeing you you're blonde,
that's right, and have been yourwhole life, and it was such an
(19:21):
eye opener when I realized in my40s that that is does not mean
that I am.
I am stupid, right?
However, you add that, ok,think about the domino effect,
and this is why we hope you guyswho are really curious about
dating that you'll remember thatknowing you is so key about
(19:43):
dating, that you'll rememberthat knowing you is so key
Because, underneath that, I wassecond in line to a sister who
skipped third grade.
So when I get to third grade,hey, I think heck man, I should
sell right on through this right.
And I didn't.
So guess what?
I felt stupid and like I didn'thave the same level of
(20:09):
intelligence, which maybe Ididn't.
However, that doesn't mean Iwasn't valuable and wasn't smart
.
It was just different,completely different.
And then you add to that athird grade teacher who was
extremely what's a good wordMean, just mean period and so
you take these layers ofinfluence.
(20:31):
So you take these layers ofinfluence and we're suddenly an
adult and we're going to revertto that child brain and start
defending ourself as thoughwe're talking to our third grade
teacher or as though we'reunder the influence of a joke
that's been told to us that hasinfluenced how we view our level
(20:52):
of intelligence.
Right, and you know what?
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
It doesn't.
And and not to.
I don't want this to comeacross as invalidating in any
way, because that's so difficultto grow up hearing all of that,
all of that.
Right?
And was that the intent?
Of course not Right.
And so, but are we aware of ourimpact?
(21:19):
Good point, and that's where Ithink knowing ourselves is so
important, because you know, Imean like you, the sibling above
me, he's, I mean, he went toHarvard, he's done all these
things, all theseaccomplishments, and it's like,
well, I didn't go to Harvard.
(21:40):
What does that mean about me?
Absolutely.
Right, and so there's and so wegrow up with these influences.
A very, very, very close friendof mine was talking about this.
He's in his later 80s and hewas telling me about how the
(22:01):
impression that we give when wehave an apparent competence
meaning we show up in the worldas we have it all together and
what message that sends to thepeople down the line from us.
Do they know we struggle?
Are they aware of theirstruggles as it relates to how
we struggle?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, that requires some vulnerability and in dating
that's difficult.
I mean, I feel like some of youmay have heard of or follow
Brene Brown and she says thatafter one of her huge TED Talks
she had a vulnerability hangover.
And sometimes I think that canhappen when you're dating
(22:45):
because you're putting out thereyour sensitive well, I don't
even want to use that word yoursoft spots, those places where
you hope someone will hold spacefor you to not know something
or not be at the same level ofinformation that that person may
(23:08):
have.
Amount of knowledge, ability tomake a grade or whatever is not
an indication of a person'svalue and worth and their, their
importance of belongingwherever they are.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes, and to piggyback on that brilliant statement is
that, though the wealth of their, of their partner, the
aesthetic, please, pleasepleasingness of their partner,
the, the, what their partnerdoes, or how valuable other
people hold, their partner alsodoes not add or subtract value
(23:46):
from a person.
So I think those are really, Ithink you're you're so right on
there.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
You know so, so let's kind of move back.
Do you on there?
You know so, so let's kind ofmove back.
Do you anything else you wantto add about intrapersonal, uh,
the value of being reallyconnected to you?
And look for some people thatmay sound too much like it's all
about me and that's not it.
It's about me showing up as me.
(24:14):
That's right, and and knowingthat you know I might get, I
might get offended or jostledaround or something might
activate one of those bigimportant cells of safety or
value, and I'm going to be okayCause I know how to take care of
me.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
And I think that runs itself right into boundaries.
Good Boundaries do not are notfor the other person, boundaries
are for you.
That's right and it's that'swhere you are in, uh, the sense
of like the, the limits that youput around your own self so
that you don't lose who you are.
And I, you know cloud andTownsend, who I think are, are
(24:54):
really really great great folks,and Townsend, who I think are
really really great great folks,great professionals, and I love
they've written a series.
I think they have boundaries, abook of boundaries for every
occasion.
I love it Boundaries for yourdogs, boundaries for you I'm
kidding.
They have boundaries in dating.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
But that's why we send our dogs to obedience
school.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Come on, yes, because we want them to know where the
boundaries are.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Because we're born open and spontaneous.
We have to learn boundariesright.
We have to be taught, and quiteoften we're instructed by
people who haven't learned themeither.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And so here you go, generationally sometimes.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I like to call it.
Okay, this is a made up term,so don't anybody Google it or
anything, because it's probablynot out there, but it's
relational entitlement.
We think, well, I'm your mother, I can say what I want.
I'm your father, I can tell youwhat to do, and you're 25 years
(26:01):
old, or you're 35 years old,right?
Do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I do.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
So do you get the idea of what I mean by
relational entitlement, love,that, and so boundaries are so
important?
Because I think that thatfallacy of thought that because
of the relationship I'm in, Ihave a right or I'm entitled to
(26:26):
say whatever I want, right, youknow.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
And I want to challenge us in that thought,
because I think you're right andI think that's brilliant.
I want to challenge us in thatthat, if, if there are any
parents listening to this thatyou, I am your father, or I am
your mother, and I have theright to tell you what to do, I
mean in your 25, well, let'sback the truck up.
(26:49):
I don't have the right to tellyou what to do, even when you're
two.
I do have the right to tell youwhat I'm going to do and what
I'm going to expect from you,but if you should choose
differently from what I've given, what I've offered you, then
there will be consequences.
Right, we have the privilege,exactly, and it's the same in
(27:10):
finding a partner.
It's the same in findingsomebody to spend your life with
.
Yes, the same in findingsomebody to spend your life with
.
It's a space of being.
Um, you're not entitled toanything, right, it's, but but I
think, in dating, where this iscritical is I do have
boundaries, I do haveexpectations, I do have, uh,
(27:33):
principles that I live by, love,that morals, values, whatever
you want to call them, and I'mnot telling you what to do.
I'm not.
I often hear and this it's.
It's more typically weighted onwith with one side than the
other, but I do typically hearoften ladies saying that oh, but
I can change them.
(27:54):
Oh, and I think to myself you'resetting yourself up for a whole
lot of hurt and a whole lot ofheartache.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Right, it's a given that people do grow and change.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Sometimes in a positive way, sometimes in a
negative way, and we do knowthat.
However, to date potential anddate potential change is dating,
an idea of someone, not datingsomeone, and so tuck that away,
because I think that's apowerful truth to hold close.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I think that you bring up that so well said, is
not looking for potential,because think about that, Like,
how, how overlooked andinvalidated might we feel if
somebody is looking to, uh, todate the potential in us but
they don't love what they seebecause I may never match the
potential they have in theirmind.
(28:50):
For me, and I I think that youknow an example of um of an
example of this may be that myvalues are such that Well,
actually, let me give you anexample of something that I've
heard in my office.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
OK.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I've heard a lot of folks who say you know what my
faith, my faith and my faithpractice is very important to me
and they date somebody who hisfaith practice or her faith
practice is very different.
It's not important to them.
And what I see when I work withcouples is you know, he gets up
(29:32):
in the morning or on Sundaymornings and he goes to church,
but she's not interested.
It's not her faith practice.
Therefore, you know, and whenthey're, when they don't have
children yet, they can limpalong, but the minute they have
children, they they show up inan office like ours, right,
because that faith tradition isvery different.
(29:55):
I mean, I've worked with coupleswhose faith tradition is, at
the core, very different.
One might be a Jewish, theother might be Muslim and
there's not a whole lot ofcommon ground there.
And when they start thinkingabout how they want to raise
their children, the fact thatthey didn't adhere to that
(30:17):
boundary in their dating coststhem a consequence in their
later life.
And then there's ways to workthrough that.
But it's very painful becauseif your faith practice is at the
core of your worldview, wellthat's going to be a really
tough hill to climb, right.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
And that's a foundational or fundamental, if
you will issue, Right.
Let me bring up one other areawhere we might experience
boundaries.
If one person in therelationship has grown up where
(30:57):
every event is a commandperformance with their family of
origin, right.
Then the other person's likewait, well, no, I thought we
could go on a ski trip with ourfriends.
But you're saying we have to goto your grandma's ranch, you
know, because they've been doingthat for generations, right?
(31:17):
So the boundaries may soundlike places where we keep people
out, and that's not it at all Imean, you know sometimes we
have to have a hard boundaryabout what we're not going to
allow in.
However, the majority of thetime, a boundary is the pathway
(31:48):
to intimacy, because if we'redoing something that we don't
really want to do, that's aseedbed for resentment and
resentment is a relationshipspoiler Because then that
resentment turns to bitternessand then sideways anger, and we
don't know why we're angry.
Why do you hate my family?
I don't.
I just don't like their commandperformances, right.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yes, and that brings us right back to the idea of
intra personal awareness.
It's that because resentmentcovers.
It's like dirt kicking dirtover who I am and I'm just going
to overlook it because I'mtrying to match what you want
from me and it's like wait aminute.
Why can't we discuss this?
Like you said, I don't hateyour family at all.
(32:29):
Right, this isn't about mehating them.
This is about me not likingcommand performances.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Right and having to adhere to traditions that have
been historically in place.
Let's talk about those.
Talk about those traditionsthat are historical and
generational and see how theymatch with what the two of us
would like to experiencetogether, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Perfect sense, and I think that is so pivotal in
dating, I agree.
So we had the question what aresome good first date questions?
And I think that, while it maynot be a first date question, it
is such a good question to askpeople or ask a potential
(33:16):
partner is what are your familytraditions?
What do they look like?
And I want to encourage you allto be thinking about is that
something that I could seemyself engaging in?
If not, I mean, is it Cher thathas the song Sometimes Love
(33:38):
Just Ain't Enough?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
But whoever wrote that is genius.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Because love doesn't carry you all the way to
fulfillment.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
No, you're right.
However, love does create spacefor there to be a difference
and we may not agree.
However, we can agree on beingrespectful about the
disagreement and how to workthrough it, and that takes us to
(34:14):
communication.
I mean we have to communicatethrough it.
And that takes us tocommunication.
I mean we have to communicatein dating.
If you have a hard timecommunicating with a person when
you're dating them, it becomesexponentially more difficult
once that relationship becomeseither deeper, more committed,
et cetera, because you've Idon't know.
(34:35):
I always refer back to the bookwhen I was having children the
baby whisperer the woman out ofLondon who are England, who
wrote this book starts out withbegin as you intend to go.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
That is is so well said.
Yeah, because again, begin asyou intend to go.
If you don't know you right,how will you know where you
intend to go right?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
once you know you, then you have to understand the
other right, and that's theinterpersonal awareness part and
that's where boundaries, that'swhere boundaries come in and
you know, I and I love some morepractical examples of that, and
I mean, please bear with mehere, but sex, there's got to be
some boundaries around sex whenyou're dating.
(35:28):
And I like to say this I'm nota moralist, I'm a therapist.
Even though I have certainmorals that are mine as a
therapist, I'm not trying toimpose those on anyone.
But let's just talk about goodscience and research.
Chemistry is a good thing.
However, there's got to be achemistry that is basic, that
(35:48):
goes beyond just physicalchemistry.
There is the theory ofattraction, so there's some
chemistry involved there.
But then there's the chemistryof connection.
How do we connect on thoseother levels that sustain us?
So once, if, if our boundary isokay, we've gone out once, so
(36:10):
now let's have sex when that.
Once we begin focusing on thephysical fulfillment of the
chemistry, then it's kind oflike our parents warning us
before we eat dinner if you eatyour dessert first, you're not
going to be hungry for the mainmeal, right, and the things that
are nutritious and help buildgood bones and give you
(36:31):
endurance and the ability tohave energy through the day.
And the ability to have energythrough the day.
And that's kind of like getting.
Once we start having sex, welose the getting to know one
another more intimately on adifferent level.
That's all.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, I think Dave Matthews had it right when he
talked about the whole idea ofthe song Crash Into Me, and I
think that the way that I'veconceptualized it is this idea
of when you've gotten to knowsomebody on an emotional and
cognitive and a spiritual levelto the point that words fail,
(37:17):
and that does not happen on thefirst date, it doesn't happen
soon, it's a lengthy process,right that.
Then, when words fail, it'slike that's where the
physicality picks up and thatoneness, that intimacy becomes,
that's where I think it becomesa part of the equation.
(37:40):
And I think that, like you said, we're therapists, we're not
moralists and we're not judginganybody.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Not at all Because it serves nothing.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
But what we are doing is encouraging everyone that
intimacy is like a fire.
You've used this analogy often.
It is like a fire.
You've used this analogy oftenit's like a fire, and if you
contain a fire there's warmth.
You can use it for cooking, youcan use it for all kinds of
light.
But if a fire is not contained,it is extremely destructive,
(38:16):
and so we want to be carefulwith the intimacy that's out of
place, whether that's emotionalor whether that's physical.
It is out of place, meaning I'mgiving you more than has been.
I don't want to say earned, butthen has been.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
That's trustworthy, Correct, you know I mean.
Again, we go back to safety.
What is the safety?
You know what I mean.
I'm happy to share.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
But you know it is.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
safety is a very important part of the physical
boundaries that we establish indating, very important part of
the physical boundaries that weestablish in dating.
And I think, too, men arelooking for a woman who has
confidence, who fits the law ofattraction.
A woman is looking for a manwho is reliable and safe and
(39:14):
fits their law of attraction.
Those are just a few littlethings that just naturally or I
hate to use this word butorganically come, come into the
picture there.
You know that is attractive andit's not just about um, a
checklist again, it's abouttraits.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Right and it, it, the , the.
When you think about what,about what we're looking for?
It's kindness, Like theresearch suggests that women are
looking for somebody who's kindbecause that shows the
willingness or ability toconnect that a man who is
(39:54):
humorous.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yes, that's a big one .
Speaker 1 (39:57):
It's a huge one.
That shows intelligence.
It shows a playfulness and anintelligence and someone who has
the potential to to earn, to besuccessful, because there's a
sense of safety there.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Right and that could be indicated by their the
current job.
They have Right, you know itdoesn't mean that they're
knocking it out of the ballpark.
Successful whatever in themoment that has dollar signs to
it.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
It's the potential.
Yes, right, I think that thesecan also be, I want to say,
bastardized, but I don't wantthat to be offensive, but the
way that they can be misused isthat well, or that they have to
be kind and they can't be rudeand basically they set they set
(41:00):
themselves up for anunattainable person or partner.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
That exists, If you, I hate to admit it, but if you
look on TikTok and some of theseplaces where I have done some
research myself, very reliablesources.
But there's a huge complaint, aswelling complaint amongst men
that these women put these theyhave.
There's a huge complaint, aswelling complaint amongst men,
that these women put these.
They have to be a certainheight, have to be a certain
look, have to be a certainincome bracket, and how
(41:29):
unfortunate.
And you said the word potentialEarlier we mentioned you don't
date potential and that's twodifferent types of potential.
We were talking about thepotential of change.
You don't marry somebody andhope that they're going to be
different, but we do marry or wedo date people who exhibit the
(41:54):
motivation to do well in theirown life because that's a part
of the fiber of their being.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I'm so glad you brought this up, because not
dating potential is looking atsomebody with a temper who yells
while they're driving, yells atthe waitress, yells at their
family of origin, yells at theirroommate and you think that
they're not going to yell at you.
(42:24):
That's dating potential.
Is thinking, oh, they'll neveryell at me, oh, they'll never
cross that line with me, oh,I'll teach them anger management
, I'll teach them angermanagement, I'll show them.
Or if a person is misusingmoney or overspending or over,
and you think, oh well, I'llteach them how to be responsible
(42:46):
with money.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Financially responsible.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
That's that part of not dating potential.
You're exactly right.
But seeing somebody and saying,boy, they're driven and they're
really showing up at work andthey're really have these big
goals and dreams in life andthey're really wanting to take
something somewhere, they reallywant to do well in this job or
(43:10):
they really have this big dreamof something.
That's the potential that you,that is unrealized in them at
that point.
I wish we had a different wordfor it.
But you're right and I'm gladyou brought that up.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
You know this may sound kind of silly, but I was
watching a series that's verycurrent and very intriguing, and
a young man looked at thiswoman that he has fallen for
quickly, and he said you'reright, I may not have a plan,
because she was concerned about,well, what you keep talking
(43:44):
about the future in us, andwe've only known each other a
couple of months.
And he says, well, I havedesire and my desire is going to
lead to a plan, but nope, Idon't have a plan right now.
I do have a desire, though, andit's very genuine and it's very
strong, and it is about you andus and how that works together.
(44:06):
So I guess that's maybe adifferent way of saying it.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I think so and pro tip.
Look for other places wherethey have carried out the plans
of a desire that they've hadprior to you.
I love that and it is lookingfor these things that you see
that have they carried outthings that they've been excited
about in their life?
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
If not, make note of it If they have, make note of
that too, right.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
This is the beginning of a long conversation because
dating is a very datingrelationships.
It's a very complex, excitingbut complex idea.
Right.
I think our hope is is that wecan shed some light into some of
(44:58):
the under the hood mechanismsof how we might encourage you to
think through how you're goingto engage this.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
And I would hope that three things are present in our
conversation today that aretakeaways, and the first one is
that you would know yourself, ina way that is as much as you
can, at the place that you arein your life, be very aware.
I like to use the word notice.
Notice what takes you to anegative place about yourself.
(45:29):
Notice what takes you to apositive place and try to stay
in that beautiful midpoint that,oh okay, I'm going to have a
little bit of both and I'm okaywith have a little bit of both
and I'm okay with being who I am.
And then the second thing thatwe've hit upon or spoken about
is communication, and how weenter into conflict is very
(45:50):
important, and that leads toboundaries, you know.
We may have to be able to standup for ourself and say, oh gosh
, I can tell you're very upsetright now.
However, I choose not to beyelled at, so when you calm down
, we can talk about this.
And that takes a lot.
It takes a lot of practice.
So those to me three thingsknowing yourself, being secure
(46:13):
as secure as we can be,everybody has insecurities.
And secondly, as secure as wecan be, Everybody has
insecurities.
And secondly, the bound,communication.
And then boundaries.
And as long as we canparticipate in those three
things in the beginning, I thinkthat sets us up to date well,
and we have several moreepisodes ahead of unwrapping
(46:34):
what it's like to date, whatit's like to break up, what it's
like to do this all well, andso, until then, thank you for
listening and we'll see youagain soon.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
If you found value in our discussion and wish to
uncover more about thefascinating world of mental
wellness, don't forget tosubscribe to the podcast.
Stay tuned for our upcomingepisodes, where Dr Long will
continue to delve intoempowering therapies and
strategies for mental wellness.
Your journey to understandingand embracing mental health is
just beginning and we're excitedto have you with us every step
(47:10):
of the way.
Until next time, keep exploring, keep growing and remember to
celebrate restored freedom asyou uncover it.
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long, and in thisepisode I'm joined by my co-host
and relationship guru, lilaPond.
She's a licensed professionalcounselor and supervisor here at
Restoration Counseling.
Today we're diving into a topicthat affects all of us dating
(00:24):
and relationships.
Together, we'll explorereal-world applications for
building healthy relationships,navigating challenges and
fostering emotional well-beingin dating.
Whether you're single, in arelationship or just looking to
improve your approach toconnection, this conversation
(00:45):
offers valuable insights andpractical takeaways.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here.
Speaker 2 (00:53):
So welcome today for our podcast here at Restoration
Beyond the Couch, and our guesttoday is Dr Lee Long and myself,
so I guess we're likeco-hosting today and co-guesting
, co-guest, co-host.
I love it, that's right, allright, and both of us are
(01:13):
actively seeing clients andworking with people, and today's
topic is something that hascome up quite often and we
wanted to present it as a forumof thought.
Speaker 1 (01:27):
Yes, yes, and our topic today is dating and
relationships.
Speaker 2 (01:33):
That's a big one.
It's a big one.
Speaker 1 (01:36):
So, before we dive into the idea of finding the
right person, I think it'sappropriate I think both of us
have decided it's appropriatefor us to talk about how we find
ourselves.
Speaker 2 (01:51):
Very key.
Speaker 1 (01:52):
It's fascinating that we spend so much time thinking
about what we want in a partner,but how little time we spend
understanding who we are and whywe want the things that we're
looking for out of a partner.
Speaker 2 (02:06):
You know that's so important and so often it is
turned into a checklist insteadof traits and connection places.
And how do we connect to oneanother?
Where are the points that giveus connection?
How can I feel safe with aperson?
Do I view myself as valuable inthis equation or am I just
(02:30):
trying to please someone else?
Those are all heavy things.
Speaker 1 (02:35):
They are big things.
One of the things I think thatthe place that I want us to
start, that we both have decidedis the best place to start, is
that understanding of us, and wetalk about it in the terms of
intra-personal awareness, orthat's just kind of a fancy way
(02:56):
of saying self-awareness, and dowe have that?
Do we bring that to the table?
Speaker 2 (03:02):
Is it okay to point out that in that self-awareness,
we have to be able to separateout false beliefs and views of
ourself that lead to theseinsecurities?
Is that what you mean byintrapersonal, that we've also
got to get down to what's reallytrue?
Yes, okay.
Speaker 1 (03:23):
And the sense of our value set, our value system, is
really key and pivotal to that.
I believe in God and God is mycenter point, the place that I
go to to understand who am Iaccording to who he says I am.
Speaker 2 (03:46):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (03:47):
And I know that you hold a similar value set
Absolutely, but say more aboutthat.
Speaker 2 (03:54):
How does that help you define you inside of you?
Speaker 1 (03:58):
I think our values define us in the sense that we
know that's, that's kind of thatanchor point.
Speaker 2 (04:06):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (04:06):
When, when God created man, he said very good.
Or mankind, he said very good,right, and so we cannot have an
origin point of understandingourselves as anything other than
we're good.
So what does that good looklike?
Where do we begin with that?
We're good, so what does thatgood look like?
(04:26):
Where do we begin with that?
What are the unique things thatwe're gifted in, that we were
given as gifting points?
Speaker 2 (04:32):
and that doesn't mean that you don't make mistakes.
It doesn't mean that you don'tat times fall short of those
gifting points.
I don't know about you, butmost of us, our best attribute
is also our biggest potential,achilles heel.
Yes, exactly, or it's the flip.
(04:53):
There's a flip side, right.
So I could be sensitive andthat could be a gift and a very
good quality and I could stepover the line and it could
become something that could tripme up in a relationship with
myself and with someone else.
Speaker 1 (05:09):
Yes, and one of the things that I've seen is that
you know you can have the giftof empathy, of that care for
others, right, that ability tosee into a situation beyond just
you.
But the flip side of that is,where are you?
You can over empathize, you canover give of yourself, you can
(05:34):
overdo, you can, you caninternalize and interpret things
in a way that maybe aren'tappropriate.
Because there's two things kindof colliding in my mind here is
that, um, why are women morelikely to burn out or what?
And it's typically because it'smothers are more likely to burn
(05:56):
out.
Likely to burn out is becauseyou know, from the get go,
mothers are oriented towardtheir children to be giving, to
be understanding, to besearching for what they need.
And then, as that child grows,does the mother also inversely
(06:17):
grow away from meaning givingthe that space for that kid to
be independent?
Speaker 2 (06:24):
Boy.
That is so powerful becausewhat happens is that all of a
sudden, identity becomes what Ido, and that's when we get.
I know this may not sound likeit's connected to dating, but it
is so important in dating,because if it's all about what I
(06:44):
do, how I look or what how Iperform, then I'm in charge of
the outcome, right.
And so mothers with childrenwe're told from the minute we
find out we're expecting, we'retold oh, you don't eat this,
don't do that, sleep on thisside, sleep this way, don't be
around smoke, don't get yourheart rate over a certain amount
(07:04):
.
In other words, you're incharge of the outcome, or so it
seems.
And then a big key factor is Ihave to keep them alive, right.
And so then that can oftentranslate into over-caring or
over-identifying with an outcome.
Speaker 1 (07:27):
Absolutely, and that whole idea of it's my job to
keep them alive, then at whatpoint is there a transfer to now
it's your job to keep you alive?
Speaker 2 (07:38):
And isn't that powerful in the intrapersonal
impact of knowing yourself?
Is that, yes, at a certainpoint, okay, I may not.
May, I do play a part inkeeping the relationship alive.
However, we both play a part inthat.
(07:59):
So you talked aboutself-awareness and I think that
has to then lead intoself-acceptance.
I can accept the fact that youknow I've got some shortcomings
and that's okay.
I can be aware of them, I canaccept them.
Then I can take action, I canwork on me, but it doesn't
(08:21):
change my identity or my value,right, and that's where
confidence comes in.
That's where we can stand safein the knowledge of who we are
and what we bring to therelationship.
Speaker 1 (08:39):
I think you're spot on on and I think that being
confident and staying safe inwhat we are understanding, our
safety, that what we bring intothe relationship, I think is a
real pivotal understandingbefore you begin to date, it is
having your house in order.
I think, at the same time, ifyou're young, it's having your
(09:04):
house in order to the point atwhich you understand.
Speaker 2 (09:07):
Your ability, there you go.
Speaker 1 (09:09):
And I think it's as we grow older in our brain we
physically mature Right that wehave a greater capacity to have
our house in order.
Speaker 2 (09:19):
Exactly.
I don't know about you guys outthere in the world or you, lee,
but I know that I can put myhouse in order, but it gets out
of order very quickly because weget in a rush, I get in a rush,
or somebody else gets in thekitchen and moves the pots or
the pans, right, but there'salways the ability to come back
to order.
(09:39):
But I got to know what my orderis right.
Speaker 1 (09:43):
Yes, I love your analogy about your kitchen,
because you have a place forthose pots, right.
You have a place where yoursilverware goes, where your
towels go.
Speaker 2 (09:50):
Gosh, I hope my husband's listening to this.
There is a place right.
Speaker 1 (09:56):
And that's that process of knowing who I am.
I know where my proverbial potsgo, I know where my proverbial
silverware goes inside of who Iam.
And knowing who you are, Ithink is very important because
when you are picking a person apartner, a date, a mate you're
(10:17):
picking someone who is they maybe very different from you and
you do not want to always bemoving your silverware drawer
around your kitchen to matchsomebody else because that's
what they want around, or thatwe move ourselves around in a
(10:49):
relationship so that we'reaccommodating to somebody else
as opposed to joining somebodyelse.
Speaker 2 (10:52):
Well, that is so good .
And the process of knowingmyself is a lifelong process.
It matures, we become moresecure in areas that perhaps we
were insecure in at a youngerage.
We began to realize that thesefalse core beliefs are not the
(11:19):
truth.
Just because the teacher yelledat one of us, or because
perhaps we were called a certainthing as a kid bullying,
whatever planted, that itdoesn't mean we have to carry,
that we grow in the process ofnot negotiating who we are with
(11:40):
other people.
Speaker 1 (11:41):
I love the way you said that it is not negotiating
who we are as a person as wejoin with somebody people.
I love the way you said that itis not negotiating who we are
as a person as we join withsomebody else.
Right, Because one of thethings that I find, and I think
you would agree, is that when,when we have a to use your
terminology the false corebelief that we're walking around
(12:02):
with, that we're scattered orwe're stupid or we're lazy, we
will tend to gravitate to peoplewho are happy to press that
button to show us yes you arestupid.
Yes, you are, because we'relooking for that.
Speaker 2 (12:23):
Or they may not even realize they've just stepped on
a landmine.
That's right.
And so what happens is our bodybegins to respond.
We then get the idea that theymeant to do, that.
We start coming to all theseconclusions assumptive
conclusions about what someoneelse may or may not be thinking,
(12:46):
and then we've disrupted therelationship, and they may not
have intended to.
And then there are those who dointend to, right.
Speaker 1 (12:54):
Yes, and that's where it comes to the interpersonal
awareness.
Is that the intrapersonal isknowing what we bring to the
table, knowing where ourlandmines are, and the
interpersonal awareness is whatthat dynamic between us and
another is going to illuminateor bring to the table.
Speaker 2 (13:18):
if somebody either intends to or unintentionally
steps on a personal landmine forus, I like to think of it, lee,
as I know we use the termtriggers, and triggers are
external.
If we can keep that in mind inour dating lives or in our
relational interactions thatthese triggers, we can't control
(13:41):
them, we can't always predictthem.
Sometimes we might be able to.
However, they're external, sothat's an uncontrollable thing.
But what happens inside is anactivation of something very,
very significant about ourself.
(14:02):
So if we have that activationsite of I'm safe and I'm
valuable, if we have those twoactivation sites secured, then
when we get triggered we're lesslikely to be as intensely.
It doesn't mean it doesn't hurt.
It just means we manage thehurt from a vantage point of
(14:24):
self-acceptance and self-love.
Speaker 1 (14:29):
And I think that's I'm so glad you brought that up
and that's a brilliant way toconceptualize that, and I think
the way it shows it practicallyshows up.
An example is if you're in arelationship with somebody and
you say something to them, theygo in your, your activating site
(14:50):
is I'm not that smart?
And they're dismissive of um,that's, that's stupid.
I don't.
I don't think that.
I don't.
I don't think that's true.
Where'd you read that?
What article are you listeningto?
Is that site real?
And they start challenging yourinformation, it, it, we are.
There's that wiring there to goback to.
(15:10):
Oh my gosh, yeah, I'm stupid.
Here's an.
Here's an example of how stupidI am and that one of the things
I think that we're, that we'reencouraging you to do, is sit
with that for a second.
Understand what's going on here.
Where am I in the midst of thischaotic storm?
Am I stupid?
No, I know that I'm not right,because I'm self aware.
(15:33):
I know now I may be ignorant tothis topic, but even if I'm
ignorant, I'm smart enough tounderstand, and by ignorant I
mean unlearned.
I mayed, I may just not havethe exposure to it.
But what do I want to do next?
Is I want to slow down, askmyself, no, I'm not stupid.
Speaker 2 (15:53):
I may be ignorant.
Speaker 1 (15:54):
But what can I learn from this?
Because I'm not stupid thatcore belief is not something
that's true, it's a false corebelief.
Not something that's true, it'sa false core belief, Right.
Therefore, if it's a, if it's a, if it's a pain point between
you and your partner or thepotential partner person that
you're dating, then you want tostep back and say hold on a
(16:18):
second.
I let's talk about this.
Let's, let's, let me get my myfeet underneath me here.
Hey, when I heard those words,that's, that's so stupid.
You don't, you don't know thesethings, but it really hit
something in me and andeverything in me shut down and
wanted to fight.
There you go.
And so could we talk about thisa different way?
(16:41):
And it's engaging them.
But, but the key here is and Ithink this gets overlooked often
is not, we do not, do not protip, do not go into this saying,
hey, you are being so mean tome, you are triggering me, you
are making this about, becausewhat are you doing?
(17:02):
You are making it about themright.
When we make conflict aboutanother person, that we're going
to typically be met withdefense.
Speaker 2 (17:11):
Absolutely.
Speaker 1 (17:12):
Therefore, just show up you and say wait a second.
This is where this is impactingme.
Was that your intent?
If it wasn't your intent, thenlet's move your.
Let's try to work the impact tomatch the intent a little bit
better.
Speaker 2 (17:30):
Oh, that's so good and so powerful, because what
we're doing is we're becomingmore flexible and less rigid.
When we get defensive, we getrigid because we're defending
ourself, right when we getdefensive, we get rigid because
we're defending ourself right,and yet it's inviting another
person to help me see myself andto inform them of who I really
(17:55):
am Right and it takes us.
I know this is may sound odd tosome folks, but I hope everyone
will hear this and take it toheart, but we all have a
tendency to go to our childbrain and not our adult brain,
especially when our identity hasbeen challenged or we feel like
(18:16):
our value has been compromised.
In other words, it's one ofyour famous sayings what does
that say to you about you?
That's right, right.
And if we'll ask ourself thatquestion OK, what is this saying
to me about me?
Then we'll be less likely tosay you are making me so angry.
Well, yeah, hold on a second.
(18:36):
I'm allowing myself to getreally angry about this because
in my head, this narrative, thestory I'm telling myself, is you
think I'm stupid?
I know, do you mind if Iinterject an example here?
And this is okay, sorry, dad inheaven, but my dad told me
(18:58):
every dumb blonde joke thatthere was on the planet, from
the time I was little until, ohgosh, I was probably in my
forties and I said that's enough, right, but that's a long time.
And for our listeners who aren'tseeing you you're blonde,
that's right, and have been yourwhole life, and it was such an
(19:21):
eye opener when I realized in my40s that that is does not mean
that I am.
I am stupid, right?
However, you add that, ok,think about the domino effect,
and this is why we hope you guyswho are really curious about
dating that you'll remember thatknowing you is so key about
(19:43):
dating, that you'll rememberthat knowing you is so key
Because, underneath that, I wassecond in line to a sister who
skipped third grade.
So when I get to third grade,hey, I think heck man, I should
sell right on through this right.
And I didn't.
So guess what?
I felt stupid and like I didn'thave the same level of
(20:09):
intelligence, which maybe Ididn't.
However, that doesn't mean Iwasn't valuable and wasn't smart
.
It was just different,completely different.
And then you add to that athird grade teacher who was
extremely what's a good wordMean, just mean period and so
you take these layers ofinfluence.
(20:31):
So you take these layers ofinfluence and we're suddenly an
adult and we're going to revertto that child brain and start
defending ourself as thoughwe're talking to our third grade
teacher or as though we'reunder the influence of a joke
that's been told to us that hasinfluenced how we view our level
(20:52):
of intelligence.
Right, and you know what?
It doesn't work that way.
Speaker 1 (20:58):
It doesn't.
And and not to.
I don't want this to comeacross as invalidating in any
way, because that's so difficultto grow up hearing all of that,
all of that.
Right?
And was that the intent?
Of course not Right.
And so, but are we aware of ourimpact?
(21:19):
Good point, and that's where Ithink knowing ourselves is so
important, because you know, Imean like you, the sibling above
me, he's, I mean, he went toHarvard, he's done all these
things, all theseaccomplishments, and it's like,
well, I didn't go to Harvard.
(21:40):
What does that mean about me?
Absolutely.
Right, and so there's and so wegrow up with these influences.
A very, very, very close friendof mine was talking about this.
He's in his later 80s and hewas telling me about how the
(22:01):
impression that we give when wehave an apparent competence
meaning we show up in the worldas we have it all together and
what message that sends to thepeople down the line from us.
Do they know we struggle?
Are they aware of theirstruggles as it relates to how
we struggle?
Speaker 2 (22:22):
Well, that requires some vulnerability and in dating
that's difficult.
I mean, I feel like some of youmay have heard of or follow
Brene Brown and she says thatafter one of her huge TED Talks
she had a vulnerability hangover.
And sometimes I think that canhappen when you're dating
(22:45):
because you're putting out thereyour sensitive well, I don't
even want to use that word yoursoft spots, those places where
you hope someone will hold spacefor you to not know something
or not be at the same level ofinformation that that person may
(23:08):
have.
Amount of knowledge, ability tomake a grade or whatever is not
an indication of a person'svalue and worth and their, their
importance of belongingwherever they are.
Speaker 1 (23:22):
Yes, and to piggyback on that brilliant statement is
that, though the wealth of their, of their partner, the
aesthetic, please, pleasepleasingness of their partner,
the, the, what their partnerdoes, or how valuable other
people hold, their partner alsodoes not add or subtract value
(23:46):
from a person.
So I think those are really, Ithink you're you're so right on
there.
Speaker 2 (23:53):
You know so, so let's kind of move back.
Do you on there?
You know so, so let's kind ofmove back.
Do you anything else you wantto add about intrapersonal, uh,
the value of being reallyconnected to you?
And look for some people thatmay sound too much like it's all
about me and that's not it.
It's about me showing up as me.
(24:14):
That's right, and and knowingthat you know I might get, I
might get offended or jostledaround or something might
activate one of those bigimportant cells of safety or
value, and I'm going to be okayCause I know how to take care of
me.
Speaker 1 (24:31):
And I think that runs itself right into boundaries.
Good Boundaries do not are notfor the other person, boundaries
are for you.
That's right and it's that'swhere you are in, uh, the sense
of like the, the limits that youput around your own self so
that you don't lose who you are.
And I, you know cloud andTownsend, who I think are, are
(24:54):
really really great great folks,and Townsend, who I think are
really really great great folks,great professionals, and I love
they've written a series.
I think they have boundaries, abook of boundaries for every
occasion.
I love it Boundaries for yourdogs, boundaries for you I'm
kidding.
They have boundaries in dating.
Speaker 2 (25:09):
But that's why we send our dogs to obedience
school.
Speaker 1 (25:12):
Come on, yes, because we want them to know where the
boundaries are.
Speaker 2 (25:16):
Because we're born open and spontaneous.
We have to learn boundariesright.
We have to be taught, and quiteoften we're instructed by
people who haven't learned themeither.
Speaker 1 (25:28):
Correct.
Speaker 2 (25:29):
And so here you go, generationally sometimes.
Speaker 1 (25:34):
Right.
Speaker 2 (25:35):
I like to call it.
Okay, this is a made up term,so don't anybody Google it or
anything, because it's probablynot out there, but it's
relational entitlement.
We think, well, I'm your mother, I can say what I want.
I'm your father, I can tell youwhat to do, and you're 25 years
(26:01):
old, or you're 35 years old,right?
Do you see what I'm saying?
Speaker 1 (26:04):
I do.
Speaker 2 (26:05):
So do you get the idea of what I mean by
relational entitlement, love,that, and so boundaries are so
important?
Because I think that thatfallacy of thought that because
of the relationship I'm in, Ihave a right or I'm entitled to
(26:26):
say whatever I want, right, youknow.
Speaker 1 (26:28):
And I want to challenge us in that thought,
because I think you're right andI think that's brilliant.
I want to challenge us in thatthat, if, if there are any
parents listening to this thatyou, I am your father, or I am
your mother, and I have theright to tell you what to do, I
mean in your 25, well, let'sback the truck up.
(26:49):
I don't have the right to tellyou what to do, even when you're
two.
I do have the right to tell youwhat I'm going to do and what
I'm going to expect from you,but if you should choose
differently from what I've given, what I've offered you, then
there will be consequences.
Right, we have the privilege,exactly, and it's the same in
(27:10):
finding a partner.
It's the same in findingsomebody to spend your life with
.
Yes, the same in findingsomebody to spend your life with
.
It's a space of being.
Um, you're not entitled toanything, right, it's, but but I
think, in dating, where this iscritical is I do have
boundaries, I do haveexpectations, I do have, uh,
(27:33):
principles that I live by, love,that morals, values, whatever
you want to call them, and I'mnot telling you what to do.
I'm not.
I often hear and this it's.
It's more typically weighted onwith with one side than the
other, but I do typically hearoften ladies saying that oh, but
I can change them.
(27:54):
Oh, and I think to myself you'resetting yourself up for a whole
lot of hurt and a whole lot ofheartache.
Speaker 2 (28:01):
Right, it's a given that people do grow and change.
Speaker 1 (28:05):
Sure.
Speaker 2 (28:05):
Sometimes in a positive way, sometimes in a
negative way, and we do knowthat.
However, to date potential anddate potential change is dating,
an idea of someone, not datingsomeone, and so tuck that away,
because I think that's apowerful truth to hold close.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
I think that you bring up that so well said, is
not looking for potential,because think about that, Like,
how, how overlooked andinvalidated might we feel if
somebody is looking to, uh, todate the potential in us but
they don't love what they seebecause I may never match the
potential they have in theirmind.
(28:50):
For me, and I I think that youknow an example of um of an
example of this may be that myvalues are such that Well,
actually, let me give you anexample of something that I've
heard in my office.
Speaker 2 (29:06):
OK.
Speaker 1 (29:08):
I've heard a lot of folks who say you know what my
faith, my faith and my faithpractice is very important to me
and they date somebody who hisfaith practice or her faith
practice is very different.
It's not important to them.
And what I see when I work withcouples is you know, he gets up
(29:32):
in the morning or on Sundaymornings and he goes to church,
but she's not interested.
It's not her faith practice.
Therefore, you know, and whenthey're, when they don't have
children yet, they can limpalong, but the minute they have
children, they they show up inan office like ours, right,
because that faith tradition isvery different.
(29:55):
I mean, I've worked with coupleswhose faith tradition is, at
the core, very different.
One might be a Jewish, theother might be Muslim and
there's not a whole lot ofcommon ground there.
And when they start thinkingabout how they want to raise
their children, the fact thatthey didn't adhere to that
(30:17):
boundary in their dating coststhem a consequence in their
later life.
And then there's ways to workthrough that.
But it's very painful becauseif your faith practice is at the
core of your worldview, wellthat's going to be a really
tough hill to climb, right.
Speaker 2 (30:36):
And that's a foundational or fundamental, if
you will issue, Right.
Let me bring up one other areawhere we might experience
boundaries.
If one person in therelationship has grown up where
(30:57):
every event is a commandperformance with their family of
origin, right.
Then the other person's likewait, well, no, I thought we
could go on a ski trip with ourfriends.
But you're saying we have to goto your grandma's ranch, you
know, because they've been doingthat for generations, right?
(31:17):
So the boundaries may soundlike places where we keep people
out, and that's not it at all Imean, you know sometimes we
have to have a hard boundaryabout what we're not going to
allow in.
However, the majority of thetime, a boundary is the pathway
(31:48):
to intimacy, because if we'redoing something that we don't
really want to do, that's aseedbed for resentment and
resentment is a relationshipspoiler Because then that
resentment turns to bitternessand then sideways anger, and we
don't know why we're angry.
Why do you hate my family?
I don't.
I just don't like their commandperformances, right.
Speaker 1 (32:06):
Yes, and that brings us right back to the idea of
intra personal awareness.
It's that because resentmentcovers.
It's like dirt kicking dirtover who I am and I'm just going
to overlook it because I'mtrying to match what you want
from me and it's like wait aminute.
Why can't we discuss this?
Like you said, I don't hateyour family at all.
(32:29):
Right, this isn't about mehating them.
This is about me not likingcommand performances.
Speaker 2 (32:36):
Right and having to adhere to traditions that have
been historically in place.
Let's talk about those.
Talk about those traditionsthat are historical and
generational and see how theymatch with what the two of us
would like to experiencetogether, if that makes sense.
Speaker 1 (32:53):
Perfect sense, and I think that is so pivotal in
dating, I agree.
So we had the question what aresome good first date questions?
And I think that, while it maynot be a first date question, it
is such a good question to askpeople or ask a potential
(33:16):
partner is what are your familytraditions?
What do they look like?
And I want to encourage you allto be thinking about is that
something that I could seemyself engaging in?
If not, I mean, is it Cher thathas the song Sometimes Love
(33:38):
Just Ain't Enough?
I don't know.
Speaker 2 (33:41):
But whoever wrote that is genius.
Speaker 1 (33:44):
Because love doesn't carry you all the way to
fulfillment.
Speaker 2 (33:52):
No, you're right.
However, love does create spacefor there to be a difference
and we may not agree.
However, we can agree on beingrespectful about the
disagreement and how to workthrough it, and that takes us to
(34:14):
communication.
I mean we have to communicatethrough it.
And that takes us tocommunication.
I mean we have to communicatein dating.
If you have a hard timecommunicating with a person when
you're dating them, it becomesexponentially more difficult
once that relationship becomeseither deeper, more committed,
et cetera, because you've Idon't know.
(34:35):
I always refer back to the bookwhen I was having children the
baby whisperer the woman out ofLondon who are England, who
wrote this book starts out withbegin as you intend to go.
Speaker 1 (34:51):
That is is so well said.
Yeah, because again, begin asyou intend to go.
If you don't know you right,how will you know where you
intend to go right?
Speaker 2 (35:06):
once you know you, then you have to understand the
other right, and that's theinterpersonal awareness part and
that's where boundaries, that'swhere boundaries come in and
you know, I and I love some morepractical examples of that, and
I mean, please bear with mehere, but sex, there's got to be
some boundaries around sex whenyou're dating.
(35:28):
And I like to say this I'm nota moralist, I'm a therapist.
Even though I have certainmorals that are mine as a
therapist, I'm not trying toimpose those on anyone.
But let's just talk about goodscience and research.
Chemistry is a good thing.
However, there's got to be achemistry that is basic, that
(35:48):
goes beyond just physicalchemistry.
There is the theory ofattraction, so there's some
chemistry involved there.
But then there's the chemistryof connection.
How do we connect on thoseother levels that sustain us?
So once, if, if our boundary isokay, we've gone out once, so
(36:10):
now let's have sex when that.
Once we begin focusing on thephysical fulfillment of the
chemistry, then it's kind oflike our parents warning us
before we eat dinner if you eatyour dessert first, you're not
going to be hungry for the mainmeal, right, and the things that
are nutritious and help buildgood bones and give you
(36:31):
endurance and the ability tohave energy through the day.
And the ability to have energythrough the day.
And that's kind of like getting.
Once we start having sex, welose the getting to know one
another more intimately on adifferent level.
That's all.
Speaker 1 (36:52):
Yeah, I think Dave Matthews had it right when he
talked about the whole idea ofthe song Crash Into Me, and I
think that the way that I'veconceptualized it is this idea
of when you've gotten to knowsomebody on an emotional and
cognitive and a spiritual levelto the point that words fail,
(37:17):
and that does not happen on thefirst date, it doesn't happen
soon, it's a lengthy process,right that.
Then, when words fail, it'slike that's where the
physicality picks up and thatoneness, that intimacy becomes,
that's where I think it becomesa part of the equation.
(37:40):
And I think that, like you said, we're therapists, we're not
moralists and we're not judginganybody.
Speaker 3 (37:48):
Not at all Because it serves nothing.
Speaker 2 (37:50):
Right.
Speaker 1 (37:51):
But what we are doing is encouraging everyone that
intimacy is like a fire.
You've used this analogy often.
It is like a fire.
You've used this analogy oftenit's like a fire, and if you
contain a fire there's warmth.
You can use it for cooking, youcan use it for all kinds of
light.
But if a fire is not contained,it is extremely destructive,
(38:16):
and so we want to be carefulwith the intimacy that's out of
place, whether that's emotionalor whether that's physical.
It is out of place, meaning I'mgiving you more than has been.
I don't want to say earned, butthen has been.
Speaker 2 (38:36):
That's trustworthy, Correct, you know I mean.
Again, we go back to safety.
What is the safety?
You know what I mean.
I'm happy to share.
Speaker 3 (38:49):
But you know it is.
Speaker 2 (38:51):
safety is a very important part of the physical
boundaries that we establish indating, very important part of
the physical boundaries that weestablish in dating.
And I think, too, men arelooking for a woman who has
confidence, who fits the law ofattraction.
A woman is looking for a manwho is reliable and safe and
(39:14):
fits their law of attraction.
Those are just a few littlethings that just naturally or I
hate to use this word butorganically come, come into the
picture there.
You know that is attractive andit's not just about um, a
checklist again, it's abouttraits.
Speaker 1 (39:33):
Right and it, it, the , the.
When you think about what,about what we're looking for?
It's kindness, Like theresearch suggests that women are
looking for somebody who's kindbecause that shows the
willingness or ability toconnect that a man who is
(39:54):
humorous.
Speaker 2 (39:55):
Yes, that's a big one .
Speaker 1 (39:57):
It's a huge one.
That shows intelligence.
It shows a playfulness and anintelligence and someone who has
the potential to to earn, to besuccessful, because there's a
sense of safety there.
Speaker 2 (40:11):
Right and that could be indicated by their the
current job.
They have Right, you know itdoesn't mean that they're
knocking it out of the ballpark.
Successful whatever in themoment that has dollar signs to
it.
Speaker 1 (40:28):
It's the potential.
Yes, right, I think that thesecan also be, I want to say,
bastardized, but I don't wantthat to be offensive, but the
way that they can be misused isthat well, or that they have to
be kind and they can't be rudeand basically they set they set
(41:00):
themselves up for anunattainable person or partner.
Speaker 2 (41:04):
That exists, If you, I hate to admit it, but if you
look on TikTok and some of theseplaces where I have done some
research myself, very reliablesources.
But there's a huge complaint, aswelling complaint amongst men
that these women put these theyhave.
There's a huge complaint, aswelling complaint amongst men,
that these women put these.
They have to be a certainheight, have to be a certain
look, have to be a certainincome bracket, and how
(41:29):
unfortunate.
And you said the word potentialEarlier we mentioned you don't
date potential and that's twodifferent types of potential.
We were talking about thepotential of change.
You don't marry somebody andhope that they're going to be
different, but we do marry or wedo date people who exhibit the
(41:54):
motivation to do well in theirown life because that's a part
of the fiber of their being.
Speaker 1 (42:03):
I'm so glad you brought this up, because not
dating potential is looking atsomebody with a temper who yells
while they're driving, yells atthe waitress, yells at their
family of origin, yells at theirroommate and you think that
they're not going to yell at you.
(42:24):
That's dating potential.
Is thinking, oh, they'll neveryell at me, oh, they'll never
cross that line with me, oh,I'll teach them anger management
, I'll teach them angermanagement, I'll show them.
Or if a person is misusingmoney or overspending or over,
and you think, oh well, I'llteach them how to be responsible
(42:46):
with money.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
Financially responsible.
Speaker 1 (42:49):
That's that part of not dating potential.
You're exactly right.
But seeing somebody and saying,boy, they're driven and they're
really showing up at work andthey're really have these big
goals and dreams in life andthey're really wanting to take
something somewhere, they reallywant to do well in this job or
(43:10):
they really have this big dreamof something.
That's the potential that you,that is unrealized in them at
that point.
I wish we had a different wordfor it.
But you're right and I'm gladyou brought that up.
Speaker 2 (43:22):
You know this may sound kind of silly, but I was
watching a series that's verycurrent and very intriguing, and
a young man looked at thiswoman that he has fallen for
quickly, and he said you'reright, I may not have a plan,
because she was concerned about,well, what you keep talking
(43:44):
about the future in us, andwe've only known each other a
couple of months.
And he says, well, I havedesire and my desire is going to
lead to a plan, but nope, Idon't have a plan right now.
I do have a desire, though, andit's very genuine and it's very
strong, and it is about you andus and how that works together.
(44:06):
So I guess that's maybe adifferent way of saying it.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
I think so and pro tip.
Look for other places wherethey have carried out the plans
of a desire that they've hadprior to you.
I love that and it is lookingfor these things that you see
that have they carried outthings that they've been excited
about in their life?
Speaker 2 (44:30):
Right.
Speaker 1 (44:30):
If not, make note of it If they have, make note of
that too, right.
Speaker 2 (44:35):
Yeah, right.
Speaker 1 (44:37):
This is the beginning of a long conversation because
dating is a very datingrelationships.
It's a very complex, excitingbut complex idea.
Right.
I think our hope is is that wecan shed some light into some of
(44:58):
the under the hood mechanismsof how we might encourage you to
think through how you're goingto engage this.
Speaker 2 (45:07):
And I would hope that three things are present in our
conversation today that aretakeaways, and the first one is
that you would know yourself, ina way that is as much as you
can, at the place that you arein your life, be very aware.
I like to use the word notice.
Notice what takes you to anegative place about yourself.
(45:29):
Notice what takes you to apositive place and try to stay
in that beautiful midpoint that,oh okay, I'm going to have a
little bit of both and I'm okaywith have a little bit of both
and I'm okay with being who I am.
And then the second thing thatwe've hit upon or spoken about
is communication, and how weenter into conflict is very
(45:50):
important, and that leads toboundaries, you know.
We may have to be able to standup for ourself and say, oh gosh
, I can tell you're very upsetright now.
However, I choose not to beyelled at, so when you calm down
, we can talk about this.
And that takes a lot.
It takes a lot of practice.
So those to me three thingsknowing yourself, being secure
(46:13):
as secure as we can be,everybody has insecurities.
And secondly, as secure as wecan be, Everybody has
insecurities.
And secondly, the bound,communication.
And then boundaries.
And as long as we canparticipate in those three
things in the beginning, I thinkthat sets us up to date well,
and we have several moreepisodes ahead of unwrapping
(46:34):
what it's like to date, whatit's like to break up, what it's
like to do this all well, andso, until then, thank you for
listening and we'll see youagain soon.
Speaker 3 (46:48):
If you found value in our discussion and wish to
uncover more about thefascinating world of mental
wellness, don't forget tosubscribe to the podcast.
Stay tuned for our upcomingepisodes, where Dr Long will
continue to delve intoempowering therapies and
strategies for mental wellness.
Your journey to understandingand embracing mental health is
just beginning and we're excitedto have you with us every step
(47:10):
of the way.
Until next time, keep exploring, keep growing and remember to
celebrate restored freedom asyou uncover it.
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