July 15, 2025 • 58 mins
In this episode of Restoration Beyond the Couch, Dr. Lee Long is joined by Michael Menard to explore the lasting impact of childhood trauma and the journey toward healing. Michael shares his personal story and the wisdom he’s gained through years of growth and reflection. Together, they offer insight into how early experiences shape us and how it's possible to rise above the weight they leave behind.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long and in thisepisode I'm joined by Michael
Menard, author, speaker andadvocate for childhood trauma
awareness.
Michael's latest book, greaterThan Gravity, brings awareness
to the impacts of trauma.
His first book, the Kite thatCouldn't Fly, tells the story of
(00:24):
his own journey through traumaand resilience.
In this episode we talk abouthis mission to reduce the impact
of childhood trauma for futuregenerations.
Together we explore the lastingeffects of early adversity and
how hope, healing and preventioncan shape healthier lives.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here.
(00:47):
Well, welcome, mike Menard, toRestoration Beyond the Couch.
It's so great to have you backon and, honestly, just to see
you again.
Thank you, lee.
Yeah, you came on the firsttime to talk about your first
book that sits over your rightshoulder there.
(01:07):
Yes, the kite that couldn't flyand other May Avenue stories.
Yeah, gosh, what a what a workof art, what a fantastic book.
Thank you, I mean you to catchpeople up.
What was the inspiration forfor that book?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So it's.
So.
It's been a the whole thing hasbeen a wild journey, lee, and
you've been with me most of thistime, but I'm the second oldest
of 14 children had a wild, awild childhood, I think, a
beautiful childhood.
I think a beautiful childhood.
(01:46):
And in my later years I foundmyself giving kind of a stand-up
routine of the May Avenuestories, which were the most
interesting, most entertaining,but I shied away from any that
were dark.
And then my wife Emily said hey, you've been threatening to
write that May Avenue book for40 years, why don't you do it?
(02:10):
So I buckled down and did itand got my siblings together to
agree on the content and thestories and make sure my memory
was correct.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
There's a lot of wisdom there.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
A lot, a lot, a lot, and it began a very beautiful
journey for my siblings and Ibecause we, we, we were close
going into the writing of thisbook.
But this whole process and thelearning and the conversation,
which is very healing in itself,yeah, um changed the
relationship and and is reallyhelping, I guess, all of.
(02:44):
But they decided they wantedthe stories that we didn't talk
about published in the book totell the true story.
So there's the good, the badand the ugly, and so I did that
and I wrote the book and while Iwas in the writing of the book,
I found you and.
I found a small group of mentalhealth experts who I was sharing
(03:10):
this with and looking for somewisdom that I could maybe pass
on to the readers so thatthere's some teaching that went
on.
And through that process Istarted digging deep into my
life and talking to you andother psychologists,
psychiatrists, anthropologistsand when they read the
(03:33):
manuscript they said, hey, youknow, this is very serious stuff
.
This wasn't just a wild,strange childhood, this was
complex childhood trauma and Iknew nothing about that, never
heard that word before, neverthought of my family as having
experienced childhood trauma.
(03:54):
But it was a real starkawakening as I got into the data
.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
What's so interesting about what you've said thus far
is is we don't conceptualizeoften I shouldn't say all the
time, but often we don'tconceptualize the things we've
been through as traumatic,because it's just what we knew.
My siblings is 25 years olderthan me, I have another one
(04:26):
that's 20 years older than me,and I have another one that's 11
years older than me, and peoplewould ask me is that strange
for you?
And I would say, I guess Idon't know that any different,
though, and it's until we havethe context of community that we
start to understand oh, thismight be unique and this might
(04:48):
not have been okay, and that'swhen that starts to, I guess,
surface, and that's what itsounds like.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's been.
It's just.
I don't know what term to useother than mind-blowing.
What?
you're saying is exactly righthad, um, I lost two brothers to
heroin addiction and justthought, well, you know there's
a high percentage of thisproblem in our country.
So, you know, sad, but but ithappens.
(05:16):
Um, I had a.
I had a brother-in-law who Iknew through through 50 years of
of you know relationships mysister's husband and he would
tell his stories about hischildhood trauma and they were
horrible, much worse than theyhad been, and he would just say,
hey, we all had it tough, wejust have to be good people.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
He ended up dying by suicide.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And this was in the middle of me writing this book.
So all these things areconverging.
And when they did his autopsythey said he was 60 years old.
They said his brain looked likea man of 120 years old.
It was gray and shrunken and hehad four mental disabilities,
three metabolic.
(06:04):
That just kept coming.
So putting these piecestogether and realizing whoa, and
as I dug deeper.
I was documenting all this andjust going through massive
interviews and research andfound that well, decided that I
wasn't going to make the Kitethat Couldn't Fly a self-help
book because I wasn't qualified.
(06:27):
So I just kept all that andpublished the book with a lump
in my throat knowing, realizingwhat I found through that
research was that my family, the14, is a fair representation of
society and that the data nowshows that 70% of all adults
(06:49):
walking around in the UnitedStates, and I would say the
world, have experienced at leastone ACE or one type of
childhood trauma.
And you know, you know theclassic there's 10 types.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
And that's an adverse childhood experience.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, that's right.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
So a very I found about 2% of the of the U S
understands even what ACE is.
They had no idea.
So I found 70% of us arecrippled by it.
I found that if you have six ormore ACEs, you will die 20
years too soon, and that's afact.
(07:26):
That's not supposition.
That's not saying the sky isfalling it is true.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
And a whole bunch of other stats about alcoholism and
so on.
And just to take some of thebecause you're exactly right,
those are facts.
To take some of thatsensationalized potential,
sensationalized thinking off ofthat is part of the reason why
and when you're talking aboutmetabolic dysfunction that was
found in your brother-in-law,it's this.
When we live in stress, itattack or it hits our immune
(08:00):
system.
Therefore, our immune systembegins to decrease a bit.
It increases cortisol,increases our insulin production
, because when you're, when youare in fight or flight, you
either need to have the insulinready in your muscles to make
them go to fight or you need tohave that ready to to flight.
(08:22):
And so there are in theseinternal mechanisms that make
sense that we were designed thisway for the purpose of survival
.
Yeah, when the, when the stressand the trauma and the angst
and the anxiety is metaphysicalor it's emotional and we can't
(08:43):
fight anything, we don't need toutilize all of that.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It stays in our body and it takes a toll on our
physicality and at least so fewpeople understand that and know
that and they don't understandwhy they feel the way they feel.
And it's part of this researchwhich ends up as part of the
next book which we'll get to.
But I found two shocking whichI found what you just described,
(09:12):
but I discovered that as alayperson not as a doctor.
And it is.
You know, when a childexperiences this type of trauma,
everything changes.
Everything changes.
The architecture of thedevelopment of their brain
changes, so the pleasure centersare disrupted.
(09:34):
So that's why we have so muchaddiction.
And another just shockingrevelation from a book called
Brain Energy by Dr Palmer.
He's proven that those whoexperience trauma, it manifests
itself into mental disorders,depression, anxiety and so on.
(09:57):
Those disorders at the cellularlevel create pathways for
biological diseases.
So it's like you're justscrewed.
I mean, you're going to havemental illness.
You're going to have.
If you have a mental illness,you have an 87% probability of
(10:17):
developing a second mentalillness just manifesting itself
from the first Right.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
It's a waterfall.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, it's a downward spiral that so many people are
falling victim to that.
You know, I see every stat, Isee every health indicator now
Extreme.
Very differently, yeah, verydifferently.
Yeah, we used to.
I used to think it was just badchoices on some people's parts,
but that's not it at all.
So I, you know, on somepeople's parts, but that's not
(10:45):
it at all.
So I put that book out, notexpecting anything, but it's had
a transformational response,and what I'm hearing more than
anything is thank you forsharing.
And now, for the first time inmy life, I don't feel alone.
Yeah, so it's.
All of these things are comingin Lee, into the center of the
(11:08):
hub called childhood trauma thatare manifesting, and those who
experience childhood traumaalmost always find ways to
isolate themselves because ofthe shame, because of the hurt.
And we're built, you know,we're built to be relational.
That's how God made us, that'sright.
(11:28):
But the minute you lose thatcommunity or talking to someone
who cares, everything gets worse, everything gets worse.
So it's something that asnowball that rolls very quickly
down, that causes destructionand devastation.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
It really is, which you know and spoiler alert there
are ways in which you can healyour body.
There are ways in which, if youexperience trauma, if you seek
help, if you seek connection, ifyou there are, there are
(12:07):
bridges and ladders and pathwaysout of those the depths of
despair there.
So that you know, I've seen,I've seen folks, you know, I've
been doing this for over almostthree decades now and I've I've
been in the, the, the mentalhealth field, and I've seen so
many people go through so muchheartache and pain and I've seen
(12:32):
them come through it and I'veseen them resolve their, their
physical issues.
And, yes, there's always goingto be a scar there.
There's always going to be ascar there.
There will always be a scar,yet that scar does not have to
dominate your life.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, and I think that's what you are saying, that
you and your siblings arefinding we, after the publishing
(13:12):
of the book or during thatprocess, we started to talk to
people like you like to talk toDr Chiraldi.
I had this small group ofpeople who have come to my side
and helped guide this writingand this exploration.
But I had one brother who hasbeen suffering from depression,
anxiety, anger and he got theworst of the trauma in our
family.
He got the worst and it's allcovered in the book, but he um
(13:38):
through the years he wouldregularly say to the brothers
hey, let's, it's dad's birthday,let's go piss on his grave.
And just with anger, and I, youand we'd laugh it off.
Of course we would never dothat, but it just showed.
And when I started doing thisresearch and understood for the
first time his pain and where itwas coming from and what was
(14:01):
happening to his body, right,you know, we all rallied around
him and said, hey, here's whatwe found.
Another brother, my oldestbrother, was suffering from
anxiety and depression for 30years.
The research in the book for theGreater Than Gravity book,
looking at those healinginterventions that you have
shared, you know we've talked atlength about he decided to seek
(14:27):
help and within seven sessions,employing EMDR, it was all gone
and he had been.
He tried every drug, everytherapy and is a man of deep
faith and has been trying topray that away.
But he didn't understand.
(14:47):
And so, lee, the tragedy in mymind is, you know, the good news
is there's a hope of healing.
There is the hope of healingand it looks like.
You know, I believe it's verypossible.
But the majority of the peopleI don't know how many, but I'm
going to find out the majorityof people who are suffering
(15:08):
never make that connection thatthere's something they can do
they?
live in quiet desperation.
They have bad thoughts, theyhave eating disorders, they have
marital issues.
They have no idea of where itcame from, so, therefore, they
won't seek seek help.
And you and I talked about yourpersonal, your organization's
(15:32):
backlog of people needing help,particularly from childhood
trauma, and you said once thatif we are successful in raising
the awareness that we need toraise in this country, that
there will be a flood that you,as therapists, could never
handle.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So we need to find ways.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
This is the journey.
We need to find ways for acertain percentage of those who
might achieve awareness andhealing without the need of
having a face-to-face.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
But understanding.
When it comes to the point andyou actually remember, lee, we
drew out on a board the levelsof disorders at which point
knowledge and reading and aself-help book is not going to
help.
They need interventions and weneed to find a way to get that
intervention.
(16:28):
And I've been hearing from justto tell you a very quick story
a lady knocked on the door and Ihad my book in my hand.
I was walking out and she wastrying to sell me pest control
Young, energetic, beautifulyoung woman.
And she said what's the book?
(16:50):
What's the book?
I said, oh yeah, I'm on ajourney here and I just told her
you know 30 seconds of, and shestarted weeping she's 23.
And I said hey, let's sit down,let's not talk about the bugs.
What chord did I strike?
And she's 23, as I said, andshe said she was sexually
(17:14):
molested by her older brotherand she doesn't know what to do
and it's affecting her and shebelieves she cannot talk to her
parents about it and she knowsshe needs therapy but she
doesn't have the money.
She's saving up at 23 to findsomeone who could heal and so
(17:41):
it's just everywhere.
It's just everywhere.
It's just everywhere.
So you know, we've talked aboutour responsibility, that when we
open someone up, unzip them.
They use the word unzip to lettheir heart show, right, that if
we do that and not bring someremedy or healing to them, then
(18:01):
we're being negligent.
And I don't want to put myselfin the category of a healer, but
I can be, as you've reminded me.
You actually brought thethought into my mind that I
don't need to be the healer, Ineed to be the ambulance, I need
to be the conduit that getsinformation to the sufferers and
(18:26):
lead them to the solution.
I'm not going to do it myself,right?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I'm not going to do the heating myself, right, and
so let's.
That's a perfect pivot point.
So talk to me, talk to us aboutthis, this ambulance that
you've created.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah yeah, this ambulance that you've created.
Yeah, yeah, so it's.
I find myself it's unusual forme to almost be speechless when
I try to describe this journey,and I made a decision when I
I'll have to tell you one of thecase stories in the book to
(19:07):
link with the reason why.
So I was getting and catalogingall of this information.
I now have 394 research reportsand 60 books that I've read on
the subject that I've read onthe subject, so I put myself up
with most experts as far asknowledge not the ability to
(19:29):
deliver therapy, but what I knowand the knowledge I've
accumulated.
And also I have this stream ofpeople because of the kite book
reaching me and trying to tellme their story and I'm saying,
hey, I'm not that guy, I'm justan engineer who wrote a book.
But they believe and arepushing that I have part of the
(19:50):
answer but I don't.
I thought I need it.
So this one gentleman, his namewas Trent At age 52, he turned
manic, suicidal, and he had anormal life right up to that
point.
He just said he went crazy, helost his mind, he tried to
(20:12):
commit suicide three times.
He's lost his family, lost hisjob.
He's desolate, he's desperateand he doesn't know which way to
turn.
So I took his call.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I said, let's just have a talk.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And I said hey, you need to get to the bottom of it
and, long story short, talkedhim into going to see his
estranged mother, who's anaddict.
One ace I asked him about hisfather didn't know his father
second ace and he told me thatthe only thing he knew that was
(20:48):
strange was that he was put in aspecial school at Duke
University for trying to killhis sister when he was four
years old with a bat whoa he gotthe records found out that he
was an ideal student no violence, no nothing.
Ended up talking to his motherextracting from her and she
(21:08):
broke down and admitted that shestarted beating him with a
spoon when he was six weeks oldoh my gosh and didn't know what
to do with him when he was four.
So she put him in thisinstitution just to get rid of
him, right?
So think about that, thinkabout that cortisol, think about
that stress response, right,yeah, it's the worst.
And I've learned you know, wehear the term, you're quite
(21:32):
familiar with the term thesacred 60 days, the first 60
days of life.
How critical is the development?
So I talked him into going intoa couple of clinics, had some
brain scans and found damage innine parts of his brain, went
through all types ofexperimental intensive therapy
and he was on the good road, infact ready to go on the road
(21:54):
with me on a speaking tour onceI released this next book and he
was describing the dysfunctionand he said Mike, it's a force I
can't even describe.
It's something that just pullsme to the ground.
It's a force greater thangravity, and a bomb went off in
my mind saying that's it.
(22:16):
That's what this force is, andwe have to create a force that's
even greater than that, and soI decided to write the book and
to name it greater than gravityhow childhood trauma is pulling
down humanity, because that'swhat I believe and that's what I
found.
Yeah, I also believe that thethe world of of healers and
(22:36):
childhood trauma are so focusedon healing that next patient and
the researchers are so sofunneled into their lane that no
one was connecting the dots.
So this layman, myself, decidedto attempt to triangulate this
(22:57):
data, and what I found is beingpublished in this book Greater
Than Gravity, and it's a bookthat has three parts.
The first part is what thisproblem is, so we understand and
define it.
So what happens to the child'sbrain, all stuff that you know,
lee, but this is stuff I want toget into the hands of people
(23:19):
who don't know, right, the handsof people who don't know.
The second book is about theprevalence, to talk about the
epidemic.
So just a couple of quick facts.
And this data, lee, that'll belaid out in the book, is
irrefutable.
So I cross-reference, I findmultiple sources, it's from the
(23:42):
government, it's from the WorldHealth Organization, it's
original research and found thatchildhood trauma is the third
largest cause of death in theUnited States.
Cancer and heart disease arethe only two that takes more
lives than childhood trauma, andheart disease is the only two
(24:03):
that takes more lives thanchildhood trauma.
11.5 million adults haveexperienced six or more ACEs.
They will die 20 years too soon.
What that means is that there's787 people dying every day
directly caused by childhoodtrauma.
Nine of those are childrenunder the age of 18.
(24:25):
Day directly caused bychildhood trauma and nine of
those are children under the ageof 18, five of them from murder
at the hands of their parentsand the others from suicide
Right.
So 787, that's greater thandiabetes, covid and automobile
accidents together, and that'severy day, so it is the number
(24:50):
one health crisis in our country.
The cost of trauma in theUnited States is $14 trillion a
year Greater than the defensebudget 60% of the GDP of the
United States and why has no onehit the alarm button?
(25:11):
So I decided to write this book, and the third part of that
book is called the Promise ofHealing the Hope of Healing, and
that talks about what we can do, what's available today and
what we need to do.
To do three things Raiseawareness, bring healing
(25:32):
interventions to everyone whoneeds it, and then drive
prevention by going upstream andteaching parents how to parent.
You've used the analogy that Iput in the book about people
drinking from the poison riverand how it's making them sick,
and the first thing we have todo is stop them from drinking
the water.
Then we have to go up and stopthe pollution.
(25:52):
So it's a very powerful kind ofmetaphor.
So this book is oh, go ahead,you have a question?
Speaker 1 (26:13):
No, I think that just to add to what you're saying is
I think that, oh, go ahead, youhave a question.
If it's not disrupted orinterrupted in some way that
you're right, it does create alegacy there and that's a that's
a painful legacy to continue.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, the you know, you do, you do the math of the
number of people that are hurt.
But 40% of those who haveexperienced childhood trauma
will exert trauma on their otherchildren.
Experienced childhood traumawill exert trauma on their other
children.
That's what keeps this.
That's what keeps this, thismonster, alive.
You know, I, I, sometimes Icall it the monster, sometimes I
(26:53):
call it the boogeyman.
We got to put the boogeymandown.
Yeah, we've got to find a way.
It's so massive, the problem isso huge.
It's not an excuse to to not doit.
But also revealed in this bookis that childhood trauma is the
number one cause for addictions,alcoholism, suicide and pathway
(27:20):
to prison.
So the numbers like 90% of alladdicts have experienced four or
more ACEs.
98% of all people attemptingsuicide have experienced
childhood trauma.
94% of all males incarceratedin the United States have four
(27:43):
or more ACEs.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, and when you think about the fact that these
are adverse childhoodexperiences, when you talk about
ACEs, it's adverse childhoodexperiences.
It's like how do you take awaythese adversities that are more
atrocities from people'schildhood?
But that's the call.
That's the call to action.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
And I keep reminding myself that there's three prongs
we have to wake people up,that's awareness.
We have to deliver healing tothose that are hurting and we
have to prevent it.
So these are very closelyrelated.
I had the opportunity to meetand interview 10 staff members
from Treehouse Recovery, whichis a addiction recovery
(28:30):
organization.
They have four sites around theUnited States with extremely
successful results, and why thefirst thing they do is address
the childhood trauma before theyeven try to stop the addiction.
And because of that, that's thething behind the thing, that's
the thing behind the curtainthat nobody brings forward.
(28:51):
But they have a method and theyhave people like you on staff
that bring it forward, drivethose healing interventions
through all the things you know,and then they say let's solve
this problem.
And the first thing, the secondthing for solving the problem
is creating a tribe or community.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
And that whole process is so helpful and it is.
You know, I know a large coupleof handfuls of programs out
there that do the exact samething, that have are similar
things, that have reallywonderful results, like you're
talking about.
And that's the exciting thingis that, like you're saying,
(29:31):
like there's hope out there,there's truly hope, and there's
people that are on this missionof making sure that that it is
well understood that we want tohelp you come out of that poison
stream where trauma has floweddownhill, so to speak, and
you've been on the unfortunate,unfortunate recipient of all of
(29:57):
these adverse childhoodexperiences, and we want to help
you get cleaned up, cleaned offand heading not that they're
dirty, but we want to help youwash off that.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
That experience Moving from the darkness to the
light.
That's right, you know, I justthis, this um.
I've, I've learned and I and Iuse this um analogy in the book
that I'm finding that those whohave suffered, you know we have
two type of nervous systems.
(30:27):
I'm just learning this.
We have a sympathetic.
We have a parasympathetic Right.
Sympathetic is-.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, same system, two different places, it goes
right.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, one is a fight or flight right.
And the other is love learninggrowth.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, it's the rest and digest.
That's right, Rest and digest.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So I think of them as mindsets, but they really are
part of your nervous system.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And what happens when you had repeated exposure.
I think of our brain as a radiostation.
We have two stations thesympathetic and the
parasympathetic.
And the sympathetic, what wehear is you're not good enough,
you'll never be good enough, andnot knowing why we feel that
way.
What we have to find a way ofdoing is changing the channel
(31:18):
for them so that they can move.
They don't have a hope ofhealing While they're in that,
in that sympathetic mindset,because they're on guard,
they're not going to hear whatwe have to say.
So the things I used to thinkof as woo-woo or foo-foo
(31:39):
Medicalness, breathing Yoga,activity, movement, nutrition
right, coolness, yeah, breathingyoga, activity, movement,
nutrition they're critical.
They're critical to self-care.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
So you're so spot on, mike, and I love hearing you
talk about this because you knowthe, the.
I look at the world andrelationships and humanity, and
even our internal sense, aseverything's pendulating.
Right, it's our, ouroscillating, but it's there's
really a pendulum.
And to be in your sympatheticnervous system, we have to be
(32:13):
there right, because if you goover to too much of the
parasympathetic, you will die,and so it is this oscillation,
this, this it's a beautifulthing.
It's a beautiful thing,pendulating, and it's like
that's.
That's the balance of breathing.
It's in and out.
If you hold your breath in,you'll die.
(32:34):
Hold your breath out, it'sgoing to stress you out until
you take a deep breath, and soit's that.
I just think that it's thebeauty of like what you're, I
love what you're bringing up,because it is that beauty of the
back and forth.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
And every expert I should say every expert that I
trust, because I've met somethat I don't trust everyone that
I trust they're saying the samethings, they're saying the same
.
The experts, you know the, the,the, the, the, the authors
they're saying this, they sayingthe same thing.
(33:08):
You need this comp, this basketof those things we're talking
about, right, and one of thembeing interventions to resolve
that trauma, right, but there'sthings we can teach people to do
and and you know I started, Iwear an Apple watch.
Sometimes.
This is all time to breathe,time to breathe, and I just shut
(33:30):
, don't bother me with it.
I know how to breathe.
So I learned this research ofwhat happens and I started
practice.
Every morning, I start withthree minutes of silent, deep
breathing and it's made a worldof difference in my mentality.
Just one little thing, onelittle thing.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
A couple of healers have told me stories about
severely mentally ill people who, until they put them on a keto
diet, an all-protein diet, theyhad no progress Right.
So it's, you know, we money bymoney, body, mind, soul, spirit,
(34:12):
it's all connected and you knowit's biblical throughout the
it's, throughout the Bible.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
It is and the.
The interesting thing about allof that and just you, you
talked about the, the ketogenicpiece of it.
It is a really that that I haveseen the white paper studies on
that, peer reviewed studies.
I have actually listened to aman who has been on the
ketogenic diet.
Now, this isn't everybody rushout and get on keto, but there
(34:40):
is, there is a scientific waythat this is creating
differences for people, and it'sthe brain loves ketones, and we
learned this when kids wereepileptic back in the.
I believe it was back in thesixties and we didn't know what
to, or maybe it was the twenties, I don't.
I don't recall, but it was.
We didn't know what to do withthem and they found that when
they fasted, their epilepsywould decrease, and so that's
(35:03):
how this ketogenic force or thisketogenic idea of dieting
became a thing, and now it canbe seen as a fad diet.
But that's not what you'retalking about.
What you're talking about isthese people with it is bipolar
and it is schizophrenia thatwhere they've seen that on a
ketogenic diet, the brain getsthe ketones and it gets what it
(35:26):
needs, and that five years inthat, these people are not
cycling through their moods likethey were yeah, and it's, it's
a, it can be a healing thing.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Now, that's not to say sorry to not keto.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
It includes vegetables, it includes fresh
foods, because what I'm findingis that inflammation is our
enemy, it is, it's behind alldiseases.
The stress response increasesinflammation throughout our body
, our organs, our veins,constricts veins, cardiac
disease, right, foods that weeat, the processed foods that
(36:27):
we're consuming over the lastprobably 60, 70 years are all
inflammatory.
If you go on the.
There was this 30 day challenge.
I forgot the type of diet.
It was basically a high-proteindiet.
A book was written on it.
It's just eating clean.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Oh, the Whole30.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
The Whole30.
It's the same thing I read inthere about what causes
inflammation in our body, inalmost everybody.
And if you eat meat andvegetables or protein and
vegetables, you will.
That goes away, that stuff goesaway.
The brain swelling goes.
(37:08):
It's just poison to us.
So I'm learning and again thisis all kind of tight wrapped up
in the book is that we've lostour way, humanity has lost our
way, right, our way.
Humanity has lost our way andwe really are.
(37:28):
You know, the childhood traumathing is just one of a handful
of things that modern life isusing.
And you know, I believe it'sthe enemy, it's Satan that's
planting these seeds, that'sdestroying children, putting
little time bombs in theirbodies so that when they decades
later, explodes into mentalillness and metabolic diseases.
It's.
(37:50):
You know, we were raised.
God made us to be relationalRight For 10 million years.
We were raised by tribes andnurtured Right and spoiled.
And you know, think of the, thenatives, how they always had
their child with them in the,you know, on their body,
wherever they, wherever theywent.
We've lost that, we've lost it.
(38:14):
So it's just compounding, thestress is compounding.
And we are, you know, we're therichest country in the world.
We're also the also the sickestcountry in the world, right.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Right, and we want to point to healthcare on that,
and okay, we can look at that,but it's also self-care that we
need to look at, of course.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
You know, dr Folletti , one of the founders of the
original ACEs study, said thatwe're all focused on the smoke
when we should be focused on thefire.
That's right.
And what happens if you havesmoke?
The natural reaction is to fanthe smoke away, when actually
(38:56):
what you're doing is feeding thefire oxygen.
Right, we have to get back tothat thing behind the thing.
And we have to get back to thatthing behind the thing.
And this is all stuff I'mlearning in the last couple of
(39:20):
years and decided with the right.
I now have the knowledge, Ihave lived experience and I have
now consumed massive research.
That said, I have to raise myhand high and hit that alarm and
you know I'm going to use thegoal to end.
The goal is going to be to endchildhood trauma, and I know you
(39:42):
can.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
It's, it's unrealistic, it's, it's actually
unachievable, but it certainlyis a good goal, though right, if
you don't plan big.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
You're not going to do big things right, that's
right.
And I also think it's it's notso much about the goal, but it's
, it's, it's who you and Ibecome in the pursuit of that
goal.
Right Doing you and I become inthe pursuit of that goal Right,
doing things for humanity,doing things outside of our what
we thought was our capability,right.
And you know, I'm a little bit,yeah, I'm going to say panicked
(40:14):
, not really panicked, but in ahurry, Because now that I have
this knowledge, you know there'sa saying we are each
responsible for the evil thatwe're aware of that we do not
cure.
So it's a heavy burden, Lee,and I know you carry that as
well.
You know it's just, it canconsume you.
(40:34):
That responsibility can consumeyou.
It must.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah, well, it can, until you realize that love
covers it all.
Yeah, and I cannot make anybodyheal, but I can sure offer
opportunities, I can offerrelationship, I can offer things
to people and they can do whatwith it, what they are going to
(41:02):
do with it yeah, I think it's so.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
What you said is so powerful um this, this element
of love?
Because in the book it shows it.
I list in my hierarchy thecomponents that are required for
healing, and the first onebased on my knowledge and
learning and personal experienceis love.
We have to learn how to loveeach other.
(41:28):
I got to meet 10 guys that werein recovery at the treehouse,
met them individually, hadcoffee with them and every one
of them, when I parted, theyhugged me and they told me they
loved me.
Men, 70, 50, 30, with theirheart meaning it.
(41:49):
We have telling our own familymembers we love them.
So this has got to be part ofthe push.
We've got to, we've got tobring love back.
It sounds woo woo but.
But it's so critical to our, toour wellbeing.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
That's right and the only way we get there is through
authenticity.
Yeah, and that's the, that'sgot it, that's the safety right
and that's that.
It's that safety that all theseaces, that all these adverse
childhood experiences, all thesetraumas take away safety.
It takes away felt safety andin the theory that I've spent so
much of my time and research onthere, is that one of the first
(42:33):
.
The first goal of this theoryis helping the patient achieve
felt safety, because how will wemove forward if there isn't
felt safety?
Because you will be in a majorfight or flight.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
You want to talk about sympathetic nervous system
.
When you don't feel safe,you're not going to be able to
be in the middle.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
I like that and really that translates how can
you make someone feel safe?
That's what you're trying to do, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:06):
It's to help them feel safe.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
How do you help them feel safe, right, and the first
thing you've got to do is seethem right.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, it's authenticity, yeah, right.
And then they have to seethemselves, and that's really
hard.
And so the second that thatsecond goal is perceived
functionality, because they haveto believe that they know that
they can care for themselves,because when we're children and
we experience all of thesehorrible things, what we believe
(43:40):
is that the environment cannot,will not, take care of us.
Therefore we're screwed, yeah,and the reality is no, the
environment was just, it wasjust combative, not just the
environment was combative.
It's not about you not beingable to be cared for now.
You weren't cared for, and soit's learning how do I care for
(44:04):
myself?
Then I wasn't taught that, andso it's teaching people how to
do that, and it's a very, verypowerful, very powerful space.
So so, mike, will you tell usabout?
So here.
So you, the kite that couldn'tfly, you've, you've, you've
written these amazing stories.
(44:25):
I love them.
I know everybody that.
I know that it's read, it hasloved it.
You're a very, veryentertaining storyteller,
fantastic storyteller.
You're a fantastic writer.
And so you, you wrote the kitethat couldn't fly.
You're hearing all of thesestories, you're recognizing the
weight of your experience andthat of your siblings.
(44:47):
You start to look at what am Igoing to do with all of this?
You've got the book greaterthan gravity that I know comes
out sometime in this year Okay.
And so I know that there's onemore piece in here that I
definitely would feel remiss ifwe didn't cover, and that was
(45:09):
the United against childhoodtrauma.
Yeah, so tell us about that.
That's where it's all comingtogether, lee.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
So you know this journey.
The kite, I realized.
You know the moral of the storyof the kite is kind of
universal and I didn't intend itto be that way, but it has
ended up being that way.
Can a kite that couldn't flywin first prize at the Grand
Kankakee Kite Contest?
(45:36):
Right, Well, you would think no, but it did.
Can a boy raised in trauma andpoverty become a healthy, happy,
functional human being thatcontributes to society?
(45:56):
You would say no, but I did,and so have some of my siblings,
but also some of them.
So I excelled.
Some of them collapsed underthe weight of my siblings.
And that's us, that's society.
Some are built with moreresilience.
I don't know the.
So I became, in my mind, I'mnow the kite.
(46:17):
I'm the kite that couldn't fly,I can fly.
And then the next book shareseverything I know.
But that book ends with theconclusion said we have to unite
.
We have to unite healers,corporations, government policy,
(46:38):
schools.
We have to unite against thistrauma.
We have to create a forcethat's greater than the force of
gravity.
So I founded this organization.
It's now a full-blowncorporation, 501c3.
And I have.
(47:00):
I have the first committee I'vecreated is the mental health
committee, which you havegraciously joined.
So, yeah, and we, you know it's, it's, it's still in the
formation I'm.
I'm going to time the release,the press release on UACT, and
make it public at the same timeI launch the book, and so it's
(47:23):
going to be an organization thatwill have three departments and
no surprise awareness, healingand prevention.
And I've got a master plan thatI've pulled together of things.
The things that are kind of thetop of the list is to create a
(47:47):
handful of online trainingcourses, using my mental health
board, to begin to raiseawareness to different audiences
teachers, social workers.
There's hundreds of thousandsof those in the country, but
(48:09):
they are not informed Right.
So create these educationalmodules that are available
online.
Create a master mega website.
Imagine going to that websiteand the first thing it asks you
is what language do you want totalk?
You want to speak, and it'llspeak to you in your language,
(48:29):
and we will use AI governed bythe boundaries we put on it of
what advice that system can givepeople at the highest level,
those with the lowestdysfunction of things that we're
talking about that can be, thatwe know are safe, cannot hurt
them, but also have them take anonline test to have them
(48:52):
determine their level ofwell-being and whether or not
they should be.
There should be a flag wavingthat you know.
We suggest you get toprofessional help.
Put your zip code in and within24 hours you'll have an
appointment with a healer who iscertified by UACT, is certified
(49:20):
by you act.
So we are going to, we, you act.
We're going to createcertification training for
teachers, healers not therapists, because that's a different,
but we might offer that to sayyou know, are you, are you a ux
certified therapist?
Meaning, do you know the basics?
Do you know the neurobiology ofthe sufferer?
Because, lee, many don't.
(49:40):
Uact is going to raise awarenessthrough billboards,
advertisements.
We're going to create thesecourses, these handful of
courses that are going to besafe and available online.
We're going to have parental.
We're going to have mothersgoing home with their babies,
each taking a kit with them thathas some type of tangible thing
(50:03):
that reminds them of what theyhave to do each day, the
importance of the first 60 days,their responsibility and how,
if they don't do these basics,they're dooming their child to a
life of misery.
Like 57% of all the births inthe United States are mothers
(50:28):
without fathers.
In the city of Baltimore, 92%of all babies born in 1924 were
born to teenagers withoutfathers.
What, what's gonna?
What's their future?
Yeah, those girls know nothing.
They're hoping grandma's gonnahelp, but what if grandma's not
there?
So the those are the time bombsthat we've talked about
(50:51):
prevention.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
It's.
It's such a.
That's right and it's such a.
It's such a painful propositionand just knowing that you act.
Again, it stands for UnitedAgainst Childhood Trauma.
I love that.
I love the United AgainstChildhood Trauma because, to
your point, it's not condemninganyone.
(51:13):
Love is where we have to start.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Exactly.
No blame condemning anyone.
Love is where we have to start.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Exactly no blame out, it's right it's.
I always say blame and fault,or the B word and the F word,
and we don't speak that way inmy office.
I think I think, at the end ofthe day, it's about.
It's about a loving, kindresource that is, that's an
offering out to the world.
Yes, and it's about making surethat people have what they feel
(51:39):
like they need to to rise up sothat this gravity doesn't hold
them down so I got giant plansand ready to pull the trigger,
and the launch of the book isthe is really the the trigger.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
I'm gonna have a big bang with pr and all that, but I
need $200 million in 2026.
I need $500 million in 2027 todo all these things and to have
an army of people Right.
So my plan you know, if eachperson suffering in the United
(52:12):
States gave $10, we'd have $180million to work with, right?
It won't work that way.
So I've developed a tool thatallows corporations I do it for
them to analyze and give you anexample Johnson Johnson, my old
employer 132,000 employees90,000 of them have experienced
(52:37):
childhood trauma.
5,000 of them will turn tointravenous drugs because of
childhood trauma.
13,000 of them will die 20years too soon.
But, more importantly speaking,the corporate talk they're
losing $1.7 billion a year inproductivity losses because of
absenteeism, from mental illness, from childhood trauma.
(53:01):
So I have a plan as soon as Iget these books in my hand,
which is this week, I'm sendinga plea out to 10 CEOs Johnson
Johnson, microsoft and Microsoft, salesforce, starbucks and I'm
giving them their stats.
I'm going to give them a veryhigh level.
(53:28):
This is what's happening toyour.
This is your employee layoutand this is who UAC is.
And here's a copy of the bookand I'm asking you to join UAC
and to be a contributor.
I want 5 million each for thenext 10 years from each of them.
Ask big yeah.
They can say no but once a yearthere's going to be a full page
ad in the wall street journalthat says did you act?
(53:50):
Did you act Right?
And there'll be the lists ofthe corporate sponsors and the
amount they've contributed andshow the stats of how many
things have changed, whateverthose stats are, but you know.
(54:16):
bring the, bring the.
Develop a movement that willget corporations.
How else are we going to fundit?
The government's not going todo it.
They haven't spent a dime ontreating or raising awareness to
childhood trauma, and yet it'sthe greatest health.
I'm sending a book and a letterto RFK Jr and saying you really
(54:43):
want to make America healthyagain, join UACT.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Mike, I think these, I think your goals and your
dreams and your hopes and yourpassion are beautiful, thank you
, and I really hope that thepeople that are listening to you
and me right now, I really hopethat they're moved to be a part
of this, and the best way forthem to be a part of it would be
(55:11):
to go to you, act now, u A C T,now N O Wcom, and act with us.
Let's band together, let'sbrothers in arms, sisters in
arms, let's come together aseveryone in arms and let's
figure out, like you said, ifeverybody would just give a
(55:32):
little, a little of their time,a little of their compassion,
just give a little, a little oftheir time, a little of their
compassion, a little bit oftheir, their resources.
And I think that if we can cometogether to you, act now U A C
T N O Wcom, and I think thatlet's go change the world.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah, amen, yeah, I.
I, as part of the because ofthe kite book.
A mayor of a small town inIllinois reached out and said we
have an alcohol and drugaddiction epidemic in our town.
It's killing people, it'sdestroying families.
I have a hint that childhoodtrauma is behind it.
(56:13):
Would you organize a town hallmeeting and share what you've
learned?
And he knows nothing about thegreater than gravity book.
Right On August 15th, I'mgiving, I'm going to give a
keynote speech at a town halland hope to pack the house and
hope to use that as the launchdate of the, of the movement, of
(56:33):
the book, of the website.
And you know, and think aboutcommunities, imagine starting
creating UAC coalitions withineach community, right, right.
So I don't have the model, butmaybe we can create a model.
Maybe we can use thisWilmington, illinois as the
(56:54):
launch test case Right.
We know one thing, Attattempting to help is not going
to hurt, right.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yes, and as long as that help is helpful.
That's always my caveat,because I see so much in my
field where they're trying tohelp and really they're not.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
That's why I have my expert, lee Long and his
committee to bless and endorseand agree upon.
Do no harm, right, right.
Because I might if it's MikeMenard, I might say things that
will send somebody sideways, butit's your job and gift to do
(57:38):
that.
Right to just I can say this isblessed by this, this, this
committee.
Yeah, it's not mike menard,it's you.
Act right right.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
Well, mike, thank you so much for being with us today
thank you, lee such a.
You are a blessing you are.
You are such a just, such a gemof a human being and I just I'm
thankful for you, I'm thankfulfor your passion, I'm thankful
for your not giving up, and so Ihope that.
(58:13):
I hope that, as this reachesthe listeners, that I hope our
listeners are just, I hope theysee the vision and I hope they
act.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
So thank you for and Lee, they can reach me through
the website.
So you know I'll make the offerto anyone listening that if you
have an idea, if you have aquestion, you know if you have a
dollar, just call me, there itis.
All right, lee, thank you verymuch.
Good to see you.
Thank you, yeah.
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long and in thisepisode I'm joined by Michael
Menard, author, speaker andadvocate for childhood trauma
awareness.
Michael's latest book, greaterThan Gravity, brings awareness
to the impacts of trauma.
His first book, the Kite thatCouldn't Fly, tells the story of
(00:24):
his own journey through traumaand resilience.
In this episode we talk abouthis mission to reduce the impact
of childhood trauma for futuregenerations.
Together we explore the lastingeffects of early adversity and
how hope, healing and preventioncan shape healthier lives.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here.
(00:47):
Well, welcome, mike Menard, toRestoration Beyond the Couch.
It's so great to have you backon and, honestly, just to see
you again.
Thank you, lee.
Yeah, you came on the firsttime to talk about your first
book that sits over your rightshoulder there.
(01:07):
Yes, the kite that couldn't flyand other May Avenue stories.
Yeah, gosh, what a what a workof art, what a fantastic book.
Thank you, I mean you to catchpeople up.
What was the inspiration forfor that book?
Speaker 2 (01:24):
So it's.
So.
It's been a the whole thing hasbeen a wild journey, lee, and
you've been with me most of thistime, but I'm the second oldest
of 14 children had a wild, awild childhood, I think, a
beautiful childhood.
I think a beautiful childhood.
(01:46):
And in my later years I foundmyself giving kind of a stand-up
routine of the May Avenuestories, which were the most
interesting, most entertaining,but I shied away from any that
were dark.
And then my wife Emily said hey, you've been threatening to
write that May Avenue book for40 years, why don't you do it?
(02:10):
So I buckled down and did itand got my siblings together to
agree on the content and thestories and make sure my memory
was correct.
Speaker 1 (02:19):
There's a lot of wisdom there.
Speaker 2 (02:21):
A lot, a lot, a lot, and it began a very beautiful
journey for my siblings and Ibecause we, we, we were close
going into the writing of thisbook.
But this whole process and thelearning and the conversation,
which is very healing in itself,yeah, um changed the
relationship and and is reallyhelping, I guess, all of.
(02:44):
But they decided they wantedthe stories that we didn't talk
about published in the book totell the true story.
So there's the good, the badand the ugly, and so I did that
and I wrote the book and while Iwas in the writing of the book,
I found you and.
I found a small group of mentalhealth experts who I was sharing
(03:10):
this with and looking for somewisdom that I could maybe pass
on to the readers so thatthere's some teaching that went
on.
And through that process Istarted digging deep into my
life and talking to you andother psychologists,
psychiatrists, anthropologistsand when they read the
(03:33):
manuscript they said, hey, youknow, this is very serious stuff
.
This wasn't just a wild,strange childhood, this was
complex childhood trauma and Iknew nothing about that, never
heard that word before, neverthought of my family as having
experienced childhood trauma.
(03:54):
But it was a real starkawakening as I got into the data
.
Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (04:01):
What's so interesting about what you've said thus far
is is we don't conceptualizeoften I shouldn't say all the
time, but often we don'tconceptualize the things we've
been through as traumatic,because it's just what we knew.
My siblings is 25 years olderthan me, I have another one
(04:26):
that's 20 years older than me,and I have another one that's 11
years older than me, and peoplewould ask me is that strange
for you?
And I would say, I guess Idon't know that any different,
though, and it's until we havethe context of community that we
start to understand oh, thismight be unique and this might
(04:48):
not have been okay, and that'swhen that starts to, I guess,
surface, and that's what itsounds like.
Speaker 2 (04:56):
It's been.
It's just.
I don't know what term to useother than mind-blowing.
What?
you're saying is exactly righthad, um, I lost two brothers to
heroin addiction and justthought, well, you know there's
a high percentage of thisproblem in our country.
So, you know, sad, but but ithappens.
(05:16):
Um, I had a.
I had a brother-in-law who Iknew through through 50 years of
of you know relationships mysister's husband and he would
tell his stories about hischildhood trauma and they were
horrible, much worse than theyhad been, and he would just say,
hey, we all had it tough, wejust have to be good people.
Speaker 1 (05:40):
He ended up dying by suicide.
Speaker 2 (05:43):
And this was in the middle of me writing this book.
So all these things areconverging.
And when they did his autopsythey said he was 60 years old.
They said his brain looked likea man of 120 years old.
It was gray and shrunken and hehad four mental disabilities,
three metabolic.
(06:04):
That just kept coming.
So putting these piecestogether and realizing whoa, and
as I dug deeper.
I was documenting all this andjust going through massive
interviews and research andfound that well, decided that I
wasn't going to make the Kitethat Couldn't Fly a self-help
book because I wasn't qualified.
(06:27):
So I just kept all that andpublished the book with a lump
in my throat knowing, realizingwhat I found through that
research was that my family, the14, is a fair representation of
society and that the data nowshows that 70% of all adults
(06:49):
walking around in the UnitedStates, and I would say the
world, have experienced at leastone ACE or one type of
childhood trauma.
And you know, you know theclassic there's 10 types.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Right.
Speaker 2 (07:00):
And that's an adverse childhood experience.
Speaker 1 (07:03):
Yeah, that's right.
That's exactly right.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
So a very I found about 2% of the of the U S
understands even what ACE is.
They had no idea.
So I found 70% of us arecrippled by it.
I found that if you have six ormore ACEs, you will die 20
years too soon, and that's afact.
(07:26):
That's not supposition.
That's not saying the sky isfalling it is true.
Speaker 1 (07:36):
And a whole bunch of other stats about alcoholism and
so on.
And just to take some of thebecause you're exactly right,
those are facts.
To take some of thatsensationalized potential,
sensationalized thinking off ofthat is part of the reason why
and when you're talking aboutmetabolic dysfunction that was
found in your brother-in-law,it's this.
When we live in stress, itattack or it hits our immune
(08:00):
system.
Therefore, our immune systembegins to decrease a bit.
It increases cortisol,increases our insulin production
, because when you're, when youare in fight or flight, you
either need to have the insulinready in your muscles to make
them go to fight or you need tohave that ready to to flight.
(08:22):
And so there are in theseinternal mechanisms that make
sense that we were designed thisway for the purpose of survival
.
Yeah, when the, when the stressand the trauma and the angst
and the anxiety is metaphysicalor it's emotional and we can't
(08:43):
fight anything, we don't need toutilize all of that.
Speaker 2 (08:48):
It stays in our body and it takes a toll on our
physicality and at least so fewpeople understand that and know
that and they don't understandwhy they feel the way they feel.
And it's part of this researchwhich ends up as part of the
next book which we'll get to.
But I found two shocking whichI found what you just described,
(09:12):
but I discovered that as alayperson not as a doctor.
And it is.
You know, when a childexperiences this type of trauma,
everything changes.
Everything changes.
The architecture of thedevelopment of their brain
changes, so the pleasure centersare disrupted.
(09:34):
So that's why we have so muchaddiction.
And another just shockingrevelation from a book called
Brain Energy by Dr Palmer.
He's proven that those whoexperience trauma, it manifests
itself into mental disorders,depression, anxiety and so on.
(09:57):
Those disorders at the cellularlevel create pathways for
biological diseases.
So it's like you're justscrewed.
I mean, you're going to havemental illness.
You're going to have.
If you have a mental illness,you have an 87% probability of
(10:17):
developing a second mentalillness just manifesting itself
from the first Right.
Speaker 1 (10:22):
It's a waterfall.
Speaker 2 (10:23):
Yeah, it's a downward spiral that so many people are
falling victim to that.
You know, I see every stat, Isee every health indicator now
Extreme.
Very differently, yeah, verydifferently.
Yeah, we used to.
I used to think it was just badchoices on some people's parts,
but that's not it at all.
So I, you know, on somepeople's parts, but that's not
(10:45):
it at all.
So I put that book out, notexpecting anything, but it's had
a transformational response,and what I'm hearing more than
anything is thank you forsharing.
And now, for the first time inmy life, I don't feel alone.
Yeah, so it's.
All of these things are comingin Lee, into the center of the
(11:08):
hub called childhood trauma thatare manifesting, and those who
experience childhood traumaalmost always find ways to
isolate themselves because ofthe shame, because of the hurt.
And we're built, you know,we're built to be relational.
That's how God made us, that'sright.
(11:28):
But the minute you lose thatcommunity or talking to someone
who cares, everything gets worse, everything gets worse.
So it's something that asnowball that rolls very quickly
down, that causes destructionand devastation.
Speaker 1 (11:47):
It really is, which you know and spoiler alert there
are ways in which you can healyour body.
There are ways in which, if youexperience trauma, if you seek
help, if you seek connection, ifyou there are, there are
(12:07):
bridges and ladders and pathwaysout of those the depths of
despair there.
So that you know, I've seen,I've seen folks, you know, I've
been doing this for over almostthree decades now and I've I've
been in the, the, the mentalhealth field, and I've seen so
many people go through so muchheartache and pain and I've seen
(12:32):
them come through it and I'veseen them resolve their, their
physical issues.
And, yes, there's always goingto be a scar there.
There's always going to be ascar there.
There will always be a scar,yet that scar does not have to
dominate your life.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
Yeah, and I think that's what you are saying, that
you and your siblings arefinding we, after the publishing
(13:12):
of the book or during thatprocess, we started to talk to
people like you like to talk toDr Chiraldi.
I had this small group ofpeople who have come to my side
and helped guide this writingand this exploration.
But I had one brother who hasbeen suffering from depression,
anxiety, anger and he got theworst of the trauma in our
family.
He got the worst and it's allcovered in the book, but he um
(13:38):
through the years he wouldregularly say to the brothers
hey, let's, it's dad's birthday,let's go piss on his grave.
And just with anger, and I, youand we'd laugh it off.
Of course we would never dothat, but it just showed.
And when I started doing thisresearch and understood for the
first time his pain and where itwas coming from and what was
(14:01):
happening to his body, right,you know, we all rallied around
him and said, hey, here's whatwe found.
Another brother, my oldestbrother, was suffering from
anxiety and depression for 30years.
The research in the book for theGreater Than Gravity book,
looking at those healinginterventions that you have
shared, you know we've talked atlength about he decided to seek
(14:27):
help and within seven sessions,employing EMDR, it was all gone
and he had been.
He tried every drug, everytherapy and is a man of deep
faith and has been trying topray that away.
But he didn't understand.
(14:47):
And so, lee, the tragedy in mymind is, you know, the good news
is there's a hope of healing.
There is the hope of healingand it looks like.
You know, I believe it's verypossible.
But the majority of the peopleI don't know how many, but I'm
going to find out the majorityof people who are suffering
(15:08):
never make that connection thatthere's something they can do
they?
live in quiet desperation.
They have bad thoughts, theyhave eating disorders, they have
marital issues.
They have no idea of where itcame from, so, therefore, they
won't seek seek help.
And you and I talked about yourpersonal, your organization's
(15:32):
backlog of people needing help,particularly from childhood
trauma, and you said once thatif we are successful in raising
the awareness that we need toraise in this country, that
there will be a flood that you,as therapists, could never
handle.
Speaker 1 (15:51):
So we need to find ways.
Speaker 2 (15:54):
This is the journey.
We need to find ways for acertain percentage of those who
might achieve awareness andhealing without the need of
having a face-to-face.
Speaker 1 (16:07):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (16:08):
But understanding.
When it comes to the point andyou actually remember, lee, we
drew out on a board the levelsof disorders at which point
knowledge and reading and aself-help book is not going to
help.
They need interventions and weneed to find a way to get that
intervention.
(16:28):
And I've been hearing from justto tell you a very quick story
a lady knocked on the door and Ihad my book in my hand.
I was walking out and she wastrying to sell me pest control
Young, energetic, beautifulyoung woman.
And she said what's the book?
(16:50):
What's the book?
I said, oh yeah, I'm on ajourney here and I just told her
you know 30 seconds of, and shestarted weeping she's 23.
And I said hey, let's sit down,let's not talk about the bugs.
What chord did I strike?
And she's 23, as I said, andshe said she was sexually
(17:14):
molested by her older brotherand she doesn't know what to do
and it's affecting her and shebelieves she cannot talk to her
parents about it and she knowsshe needs therapy but she
doesn't have the money.
She's saving up at 23 to findsomeone who could heal and so
(17:41):
it's just everywhere.
It's just everywhere.
It's just everywhere.
So you know, we've talked aboutour responsibility, that when we
open someone up, unzip them.
They use the word unzip to lettheir heart show, right, that if
we do that and not bring someremedy or healing to them, then
(18:01):
we're being negligent.
And I don't want to put myselfin the category of a healer, but
I can be, as you've reminded me.
You actually brought thethought into my mind that I
don't need to be the healer, Ineed to be the ambulance, I need
to be the conduit that getsinformation to the sufferers and
(18:26):
lead them to the solution.
I'm not going to do it myself,right?
Speaker 1 (18:30):
I'm not going to do the heating myself, right, and
so let's.
That's a perfect pivot point.
So talk to me, talk to us aboutthis, this ambulance that
you've created.
Speaker 2 (18:42):
Yeah yeah, this ambulance that you've created.
Yeah, yeah, so it's.
I find myself it's unusual forme to almost be speechless when
I try to describe this journey,and I made a decision when I
I'll have to tell you one of thecase stories in the book to
(19:07):
link with the reason why.
So I was getting and catalogingall of this information.
I now have 394 research reportsand 60 books that I've read on
the subject that I've read onthe subject, so I put myself up
with most experts as far asknowledge not the ability to
(19:29):
deliver therapy, but what I knowand the knowledge I've
accumulated.
And also I have this stream ofpeople because of the kite book
reaching me and trying to tellme their story and I'm saying,
hey, I'm not that guy, I'm justan engineer who wrote a book.
But they believe and arepushing that I have part of the
(19:50):
answer but I don't.
I thought I need it.
So this one gentleman, his namewas Trent At age 52, he turned
manic, suicidal, and he had anormal life right up to that
point.
He just said he went crazy, helost his mind, he tried to
(20:12):
commit suicide three times.
He's lost his family, lost hisjob.
He's desolate, he's desperateand he doesn't know which way to
turn.
So I took his call.
Speaker 1 (20:25):
I said, let's just have a talk.
Speaker 2 (20:26):
And I said hey, you need to get to the bottom of it
and, long story short, talkedhim into going to see his
estranged mother, who's anaddict.
One ace I asked him about hisfather didn't know his father
second ace and he told me thatthe only thing he knew that was
(20:48):
strange was that he was put in aspecial school at Duke
University for trying to killhis sister when he was four
years old with a bat whoa he gotthe records found out that he
was an ideal student no violence, no nothing.
Ended up talking to his motherextracting from her and she
(21:08):
broke down and admitted that shestarted beating him with a
spoon when he was six weeks oldoh my gosh and didn't know what
to do with him when he was four.
So she put him in thisinstitution just to get rid of
him, right?
So think about that, thinkabout that cortisol, think about
that stress response, right,yeah, it's the worst.
And I've learned you know, wehear the term, you're quite
(21:32):
familiar with the term thesacred 60 days, the first 60
days of life.
How critical is the development?
So I talked him into going intoa couple of clinics, had some
brain scans and found damage innine parts of his brain, went
through all types ofexperimental intensive therapy
and he was on the good road, infact ready to go on the road
(21:54):
with me on a speaking tour onceI released this next book and he
was describing the dysfunctionand he said Mike, it's a force I
can't even describe.
It's something that just pullsme to the ground.
It's a force greater thangravity, and a bomb went off in
my mind saying that's it.
(22:16):
That's what this force is, andwe have to create a force that's
even greater than that, and soI decided to write the book and
to name it greater than gravityhow childhood trauma is pulling
down humanity, because that'swhat I believe and that's what I
found.
Yeah, I also believe that thethe world of of healers and
(22:36):
childhood trauma are so focusedon healing that next patient and
the researchers are so sofunneled into their lane that no
one was connecting the dots.
So this layman, myself, decidedto attempt to triangulate this
(22:57):
data, and what I found is beingpublished in this book Greater
Than Gravity, and it's a bookthat has three parts.
The first part is what thisproblem is, so we understand and
define it.
So what happens to the child'sbrain, all stuff that you know,
lee, but this is stuff I want toget into the hands of people
(23:19):
who don't know, right, the handsof people who don't know.
The second book is about theprevalence, to talk about the
epidemic.
So just a couple of quick facts.
And this data, lee, that'll belaid out in the book, is
irrefutable.
So I cross-reference, I findmultiple sources, it's from the
(23:42):
government, it's from the WorldHealth Organization, it's
original research and found thatchildhood trauma is the third
largest cause of death in theUnited States.
Cancer and heart disease arethe only two that takes more
lives than childhood trauma, andheart disease is the only two
(24:03):
that takes more lives thanchildhood trauma.
11.5 million adults haveexperienced six or more ACEs.
They will die 20 years too soon.
What that means is that there's787 people dying every day
directly caused by childhoodtrauma.
Nine of those are childrenunder the age of 18.
(24:25):
Day directly caused bychildhood trauma and nine of
those are children under the ageof 18, five of them from murder
at the hands of their parentsand the others from suicide
Right.
So 787, that's greater thandiabetes, covid and automobile
accidents together, and that'severy day, so it is the number
(24:50):
one health crisis in our country.
The cost of trauma in theUnited States is $14 trillion a
year Greater than the defensebudget 60% of the GDP of the
United States and why has no onehit the alarm button?
(25:11):
So I decided to write this book, and the third part of that
book is called the Promise ofHealing the Hope of Healing, and
that talks about what we can do, what's available today and
what we need to do.
To do three things Raiseawareness, bring healing
(25:32):
interventions to everyone whoneeds it, and then drive
prevention by going upstream andteaching parents how to parent.
You've used the analogy that Iput in the book about people
drinking from the poison riverand how it's making them sick,
and the first thing we have todo is stop them from drinking
the water.
Then we have to go up and stopthe pollution.
(25:52):
So it's a very powerful kind ofmetaphor.
So this book is oh, go ahead,you have a question?
Speaker 1 (26:13):
No, I think that just to add to what you're saying is
I think that, oh, go ahead, youhave a question.
If it's not disrupted orinterrupted in some way that
you're right, it does create alegacy there and that's a that's
a painful legacy to continue.
Speaker 2 (26:29):
Yeah, the you know, you do, you do the math of the
number of people that are hurt.
But 40% of those who haveexperienced childhood trauma
will exert trauma on their otherchildren.
Experienced childhood traumawill exert trauma on their other
children.
That's what keeps this.
That's what keeps this, thismonster, alive.
You know, I, I, sometimes Icall it the monster, sometimes I
(26:53):
call it the boogeyman.
We got to put the boogeymandown.
Yeah, we've got to find a way.
It's so massive, the problem isso huge.
It's not an excuse to to not doit.
But also revealed in this bookis that childhood trauma is the
number one cause for addictions,alcoholism, suicide and pathway
(27:20):
to prison.
So the numbers like 90% of alladdicts have experienced four or
more ACEs.
98% of all people attemptingsuicide have experienced
childhood trauma.
94% of all males incarceratedin the United States have four
(27:43):
or more ACEs.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Yeah, and when you think about the fact that these
are adverse childhoodexperiences, when you talk about
ACEs, it's adverse childhoodexperiences.
It's like how do you take awaythese adversities that are more
atrocities from people'schildhood?
But that's the call.
That's the call to action.
Speaker 2 (28:07):
And I keep reminding myself that there's three prongs
we have to wake people up,that's awareness.
We have to deliver healing tothose that are hurting and we
have to prevent it.
So these are very closelyrelated.
I had the opportunity to meetand interview 10 staff members
from Treehouse Recovery, whichis a addiction recovery
(28:30):
organization.
They have four sites around theUnited States with extremely
successful results, and why thefirst thing they do is address
the childhood trauma before theyeven try to stop the addiction.
And because of that, that's thething behind the thing, that's
the thing behind the curtainthat nobody brings forward.
(28:51):
But they have a method and theyhave people like you on staff
that bring it forward, drivethose healing interventions
through all the things you know,and then they say let's solve
this problem.
And the first thing, the secondthing for solving the problem
is creating a tribe or community.
Speaker 1 (29:11):
And that whole process is so helpful and it is.
You know, I know a large coupleof handfuls of programs out
there that do the exact samething, that have are similar
things, that have reallywonderful results, like you're
talking about.
And that's the exciting thingis that, like you're saying,
(29:31):
like there's hope out there,there's truly hope, and there's
people that are on this missionof making sure that that it is
well understood that we want tohelp you come out of that poison
stream where trauma has floweddownhill, so to speak, and
you've been on the unfortunate,unfortunate recipient of all of
(29:57):
these adverse childhoodexperiences, and we want to help
you get cleaned up, cleaned offand heading not that they're
dirty, but we want to help youwash off that.
Speaker 2 (30:07):
That experience Moving from the darkness to the
light.
That's right, you know, I justthis, this um.
I've, I've learned and I and Iuse this um analogy in the book
that I'm finding that those whohave suffered, you know we have
two type of nervous systems.
(30:27):
I'm just learning this.
We have a sympathetic.
We have a parasympathetic Right.
Sympathetic is-.
Speaker 1 (30:34):
Yeah, same system, two different places, it goes
right.
Speaker 2 (30:37):
Yeah, one is a fight or flight right.
And the other is love learninggrowth.
Speaker 1 (30:44):
Yeah, it's the rest and digest.
That's right, Rest and digest.
Speaker 2 (30:48):
So I think of them as mindsets, but they really are
part of your nervous system.
Speaker 1 (30:53):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (30:54):
And what happens when you had repeated exposure.
I think of our brain as a radiostation.
We have two stations thesympathetic and the
parasympathetic.
And the sympathetic, what wehear is you're not good enough,
you'll never be good enough, andnot knowing why we feel that
way.
What we have to find a way ofdoing is changing the channel
(31:18):
for them so that they can move.
They don't have a hope ofhealing While they're in that,
in that sympathetic mindset,because they're on guard,
they're not going to hear whatwe have to say.
So the things I used to thinkof as woo-woo or foo-foo
(31:39):
Medicalness, breathing Yoga,activity, movement, nutrition
right, coolness, yeah, breathingyoga, activity, movement,
nutrition they're critical.
They're critical to self-care.
Speaker 1 (31:51):
So you're so spot on, mike, and I love hearing you
talk about this because you knowthe, the.
I look at the world andrelationships and humanity, and
even our internal sense, aseverything's pendulating.
Right, it's our, ouroscillating, but it's there's
really a pendulum.
And to be in your sympatheticnervous system, we have to be
(32:13):
there right, because if you goover to too much of the
parasympathetic, you will die,and so it is this oscillation,
this, this it's a beautifulthing.
It's a beautiful thing,pendulating, and it's like
that's.
That's the balance of breathing.
It's in and out.
If you hold your breath in,you'll die.
(32:34):
Hold your breath out, it'sgoing to stress you out until
you take a deep breath, and soit's that.
I just think that it's thebeauty of like what you're, I
love what you're bringing up,because it is that beauty of the
back and forth.
Speaker 2 (32:48):
And every expert I should say every expert that I
trust, because I've met somethat I don't trust everyone that
I trust they're saying the samethings, they're saying the same
.
The experts, you know the, the,the, the, the, the authors
they're saying this, they sayingthe same thing.
(33:08):
You need this comp, this basketof those things we're talking
about, right, and one of thembeing interventions to resolve
that trauma, right, but there'sthings we can teach people to do
and and you know I started, Iwear an Apple watch.
Sometimes.
This is all time to breathe,time to breathe, and I just shut
(33:30):
, don't bother me with it.
I know how to breathe.
So I learned this research ofwhat happens and I started
practice.
Every morning, I start withthree minutes of silent, deep
breathing and it's made a worldof difference in my mentality.
Just one little thing, onelittle thing.
Speaker 1 (33:49):
Right.
Speaker 2 (33:51):
A couple of healers have told me stories about
severely mentally ill people who, until they put them on a keto
diet, an all-protein diet, theyhad no progress Right.
So it's, you know, we money bymoney, body, mind, soul, spirit,
(34:12):
it's all connected and you knowit's biblical throughout the
it's, throughout the Bible.
Speaker 1 (34:16):
It is and the.
The interesting thing about allof that and just you, you
talked about the, the ketogenicpiece of it.
It is a really that that I haveseen the white paper studies on
that, peer reviewed studies.
I have actually listened to aman who has been on the
ketogenic diet.
Now, this isn't everybody rushout and get on keto, but there
(34:40):
is, there is a scientific waythat this is creating
differences for people, and it'sthe brain loves ketones, and we
learned this when kids wereepileptic back in the.
I believe it was back in thesixties and we didn't know what
to, or maybe it was the twenties, I don't.
I don't recall, but it was.
We didn't know what to do withthem and they found that when
they fasted, their epilepsywould decrease, and so that's
(35:03):
how this ketogenic force or thisketogenic idea of dieting
became a thing, and now it canbe seen as a fad diet.
But that's not what you'retalking about.
What you're talking about isthese people with it is bipolar
and it is schizophrenia thatwhere they've seen that on a
ketogenic diet, the brain getsthe ketones and it gets what it
(35:26):
needs, and that five years inthat, these people are not
cycling through their moods likethey were yeah, and it's, it's
a, it can be a healing thing.
Speaker 2 (35:37):
Yeah, it's.
Speaker 1 (35:39):
Now, that's not to say sorry to not keto.
Speaker 2 (36:05):
It includes vegetables, it includes fresh
foods, because what I'm findingis that inflammation is our
enemy, it is, it's behind alldiseases.
The stress response increasesinflammation throughout our body
, our organs, our veins,constricts veins, cardiac
disease, right, foods that weeat, the processed foods that
(36:27):
we're consuming over the lastprobably 60, 70 years are all
inflammatory.
If you go on the.
There was this 30 day challenge.
I forgot the type of diet.
It was basically a high-proteindiet.
A book was written on it.
It's just eating clean.
Speaker 1 (36:47):
Oh, the Whole30.
Speaker 2 (36:48):
The Whole30.
It's the same thing I read inthere about what causes
inflammation in our body, inalmost everybody.
And if you eat meat andvegetables or protein and
vegetables, you will.
That goes away, that stuff goesaway.
The brain swelling goes.
(37:08):
It's just poison to us.
So I'm learning and again thisis all kind of tight wrapped up
in the book is that we've lostour way, humanity has lost our
way, right, our way.
Humanity has lost our way andwe really are.
(37:28):
You know, the childhood traumathing is just one of a handful
of things that modern life isusing.
And you know, I believe it'sthe enemy, it's Satan that's
planting these seeds, that'sdestroying children, putting
little time bombs in theirbodies so that when they decades
later, explodes into mentalillness and metabolic diseases.
It's.
(37:50):
You know, we were raised.
God made us to be relationalRight For 10 million years.
We were raised by tribes andnurtured Right and spoiled.
And you know, think of the, thenatives, how they always had
their child with them in the,you know, on their body,
wherever they, wherever theywent.
We've lost that, we've lost it.
(38:14):
So it's just compounding, thestress is compounding.
And we are, you know, we're therichest country in the world.
We're also the also the sickestcountry in the world, right.
Speaker 1 (38:25):
Right, and we want to point to healthcare on that,
and okay, we can look at that,but it's also self-care that we
need to look at, of course.
Speaker 2 (38:35):
You know, dr Folletti , one of the founders of the
original ACEs study, said thatwe're all focused on the smoke
when we should be focused on thefire.
That's right.
And what happens if you havesmoke?
The natural reaction is to fanthe smoke away, when actually
(38:56):
what you're doing is feeding thefire oxygen.
Right, we have to get back tothat thing behind the thing.
And we have to get back to thatthing behind the thing.
And this is all stuff I'mlearning in the last couple of
(39:20):
years and decided with the right.
I now have the knowledge, Ihave lived experience and I have
now consumed massive research.
That said, I have to raise myhand high and hit that alarm and
you know I'm going to use thegoal to end.
The goal is going to be to endchildhood trauma, and I know you
(39:42):
can.
Speaker 1 (39:43):
It's, it's unrealistic, it's, it's actually
unachievable, but it certainlyis a good goal, though right, if
you don't plan big.
Speaker 2 (39:51):
You're not going to do big things right, that's
right.
And I also think it's it's notso much about the goal, but it's
, it's, it's who you and Ibecome in the pursuit of that
goal.
Right Doing you and I become inthe pursuit of that goal Right,
doing things for humanity,doing things outside of our what
we thought was our capability,right.
And you know, I'm a little bit,yeah, I'm going to say panicked
(40:14):
, not really panicked, but in ahurry, Because now that I have
this knowledge, you know there'sa saying we are each
responsible for the evil thatwe're aware of that we do not
cure.
So it's a heavy burden, Lee,and I know you carry that as
well.
You know it's just, it canconsume you.
(40:34):
That responsibility can consumeyou.
It must.
Speaker 1 (40:38):
Yeah, well, it can, until you realize that love
covers it all.
Yeah, and I cannot make anybodyheal, but I can sure offer
opportunities, I can offerrelationship, I can offer things
to people and they can do whatwith it, what they are going to
(41:02):
do with it yeah, I think it's so.
Speaker 2 (41:06):
What you said is so powerful um this, this element
of love?
Because in the book it shows it.
I list in my hierarchy thecomponents that are required for
healing, and the first onebased on my knowledge and
learning and personal experienceis love.
We have to learn how to loveeach other.
(41:28):
I got to meet 10 guys that werein recovery at the treehouse,
met them individually, hadcoffee with them and every one
of them, when I parted, theyhugged me and they told me they
loved me.
Men, 70, 50, 30, with theirheart meaning it.
(41:49):
We have telling our own familymembers we love them.
So this has got to be part ofthe push.
We've got to, we've got tobring love back.
It sounds woo woo but.
But it's so critical to our, toour wellbeing.
Speaker 1 (42:08):
That's right and the only way we get there is through
authenticity.
Yeah, and that's the, that'sgot it, that's the safety right
and that's that.
It's that safety that all theseaces, that all these adverse
childhood experiences, all thesetraumas take away safety.
It takes away felt safety andin the theory that I've spent so
much of my time and research onthere, is that one of the first
(42:33):
.
The first goal of this theoryis helping the patient achieve
felt safety, because how will wemove forward if there isn't
felt safety?
Because you will be in a majorfight or flight.
Speaker 2 (42:50):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (42:51):
You want to talk about sympathetic nervous system
.
When you don't feel safe,you're not going to be able to
be in the middle.
I like that.
Speaker 2 (42:59):
I like that and really that translates how can
you make someone feel safe?
That's what you're trying to do, right?
Yeah?
Speaker 1 (43:06):
It's to help them feel safe.
Speaker 2 (43:08):
How do you help them feel safe, right, and the first
thing you've got to do is seethem right.
Speaker 1 (43:15):
Yeah, it's authenticity, yeah, right.
And then they have to seethemselves, and that's really
hard.
And so the second that thatsecond goal is perceived
functionality, because they haveto believe that they know that
they can care for themselves,because when we're children and
we experience all of thesehorrible things, what we believe
(43:40):
is that the environment cannot,will not, take care of us.
Therefore we're screwed, yeah,and the reality is no, the
environment was just, it wasjust combative, not just the
environment was combative.
It's not about you not beingable to be cared for now.
You weren't cared for, and soit's learning how do I care for
(44:04):
myself?
Then I wasn't taught that, andso it's teaching people how to
do that, and it's a very, verypowerful, very powerful space.
So so, mike, will you tell usabout?
So here.
So you, the kite that couldn'tfly, you've, you've, you've
written these amazing stories.
(44:25):
I love them.
I know everybody that.
I know that it's read, it hasloved it.
You're a very, veryentertaining storyteller,
fantastic storyteller.
You're a fantastic writer.
And so you, you wrote the kitethat couldn't fly.
You're hearing all of thesestories, you're recognizing the
weight of your experience andthat of your siblings.
(44:47):
You start to look at what am Igoing to do with all of this?
You've got the book greaterthan gravity that I know comes
out sometime in this year Okay.
And so I know that there's onemore piece in here that I
definitely would feel remiss ifwe didn't cover, and that was
(45:09):
the United against childhoodtrauma.
Yeah, so tell us about that.
That's where it's all comingtogether, lee.
Speaker 2 (45:16):
So you know this journey.
The kite, I realized.
You know the moral of the storyof the kite is kind of
universal and I didn't intend itto be that way, but it has
ended up being that way.
Can a kite that couldn't flywin first prize at the Grand
Kankakee Kite Contest?
(45:36):
Right, Well, you would think no, but it did.
Can a boy raised in trauma andpoverty become a healthy, happy,
functional human being thatcontributes to society?
(45:56):
You would say no, but I did,and so have some of my siblings,
but also some of them.
So I excelled.
Some of them collapsed underthe weight of my siblings.
And that's us, that's society.
Some are built with moreresilience.
I don't know the.
So I became, in my mind, I'mnow the kite.
(46:17):
I'm the kite that couldn't fly,I can fly.
And then the next book shareseverything I know.
But that book ends with theconclusion said we have to unite
.
We have to unite healers,corporations, government policy,
(46:38):
schools.
We have to unite against thistrauma.
We have to create a forcethat's greater than the force of
gravity.
So I founded this organization.
It's now a full-blowncorporation, 501c3.
And I have.
(47:00):
I have the first committee I'vecreated is the mental health
committee, which you havegraciously joined.
So, yeah, and we, you know it's, it's, it's still in the
formation I'm.
I'm going to time the release,the press release on UACT, and
make it public at the same timeI launch the book, and so it's
(47:23):
going to be an organization thatwill have three departments and
no surprise awareness, healingand prevention.
And I've got a master plan thatI've pulled together of things.
The things that are kind of thetop of the list is to create a
(47:47):
handful of online trainingcourses, using my mental health
board, to begin to raiseawareness to different audiences
teachers, social workers.
There's hundreds of thousandsof those in the country, but
(48:09):
they are not informed Right.
So create these educationalmodules that are available
online.
Create a master mega website.
Imagine going to that websiteand the first thing it asks you
is what language do you want totalk?
You want to speak, and it'llspeak to you in your language,
(48:29):
and we will use AI governed bythe boundaries we put on it of
what advice that system can givepeople at the highest level,
those with the lowestdysfunction of things that we're
talking about that can be, thatwe know are safe, cannot hurt
them, but also have them take anonline test to have them
(48:52):
determine their level ofwell-being and whether or not
they should be.
There should be a flag wavingthat you know.
We suggest you get toprofessional help.
Put your zip code in and within24 hours you'll have an
appointment with a healer who iscertified by UACT, is certified
(49:20):
by you act.
So we are going to, we, you act.
We're going to createcertification training for
teachers, healers not therapists, because that's a different,
but we might offer that to sayyou know, are you, are you a ux
certified therapist?
Meaning, do you know the basics?
Do you know the neurobiology ofthe sufferer?
Because, lee, many don't.
(49:40):
Uact is going to raise awarenessthrough billboards,
advertisements.
We're going to create thesecourses, these handful of
courses that are going to besafe and available online.
We're going to have parental.
We're going to have mothersgoing home with their babies,
each taking a kit with them thathas some type of tangible thing
(50:03):
that reminds them of what theyhave to do each day, the
importance of the first 60 days,their responsibility and how,
if they don't do these basics,they're dooming their child to a
life of misery.
Like 57% of all the births inthe United States are mothers
(50:28):
without fathers.
In the city of Baltimore, 92%of all babies born in 1924 were
born to teenagers withoutfathers.
What, what's gonna?
What's their future?
Yeah, those girls know nothing.
They're hoping grandma's gonnahelp, but what if grandma's not
there?
So the those are the time bombsthat we've talked about
(50:51):
prevention.
Speaker 1 (50:52):
It's.
It's such a.
That's right and it's such a.
It's such a painful propositionand just knowing that you act.
Again, it stands for UnitedAgainst Childhood Trauma.
I love that.
I love the United AgainstChildhood Trauma because, to
your point, it's not condemninganyone.
(51:13):
Love is where we have to start.
Speaker 2 (51:16):
Exactly.
No blame condemning anyone.
Love is where we have to start.
Speaker 1 (51:17):
Exactly no blame out, it's right it's.
I always say blame and fault,or the B word and the F word,
and we don't speak that way inmy office.
I think I think, at the end ofthe day, it's about.
It's about a loving, kindresource that is, that's an
offering out to the world.
Yes, and it's about making surethat people have what they feel
(51:39):
like they need to to rise up sothat this gravity doesn't hold
them down so I got giant plansand ready to pull the trigger,
and the launch of the book isthe is really the the trigger.
Speaker 2 (51:50):
I'm gonna have a big bang with pr and all that, but I
need $200 million in 2026.
I need $500 million in 2027 todo all these things and to have
an army of people Right.
So my plan you know, if eachperson suffering in the United
(52:12):
States gave $10, we'd have $180million to work with, right?
It won't work that way.
So I've developed a tool thatallows corporations I do it for
them to analyze and give you anexample Johnson Johnson, my old
employer 132,000 employees90,000 of them have experienced
(52:37):
childhood trauma.
5,000 of them will turn tointravenous drugs because of
childhood trauma.
13,000 of them will die 20years too soon.
But, more importantly speaking,the corporate talk they're
losing $1.7 billion a year inproductivity losses because of
absenteeism, from mental illness, from childhood trauma.
(53:01):
So I have a plan as soon as Iget these books in my hand,
which is this week, I'm sendinga plea out to 10 CEOs Johnson
Johnson, microsoft and Microsoft, salesforce, starbucks and I'm
giving them their stats.
I'm going to give them a veryhigh level.
(53:28):
This is what's happening toyour.
This is your employee layoutand this is who UAC is.
And here's a copy of the bookand I'm asking you to join UAC
and to be a contributor.
I want 5 million each for thenext 10 years from each of them.
Ask big yeah.
They can say no but once a yearthere's going to be a full page
ad in the wall street journalthat says did you act?
(53:50):
Did you act Right?
And there'll be the lists ofthe corporate sponsors and the
amount they've contributed andshow the stats of how many
things have changed, whateverthose stats are, but you know.
(54:16):
bring the, bring the.
Develop a movement that willget corporations.
How else are we going to fundit?
The government's not going todo it.
They haven't spent a dime ontreating or raising awareness to
childhood trauma, and yet it'sthe greatest health.
I'm sending a book and a letterto RFK Jr and saying you really
(54:43):
want to make America healthyagain, join UACT.
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (54:48):
Mike, I think these, I think your goals and your
dreams and your hopes and yourpassion are beautiful, thank you
, and I really hope that thepeople that are listening to you
and me right now, I really hopethat they're moved to be a part
of this, and the best way forthem to be a part of it would be
(55:11):
to go to you, act now, u A C T,now N O Wcom, and act with us.
Let's band together, let'sbrothers in arms, sisters in
arms, let's come together aseveryone in arms and let's
figure out, like you said, ifeverybody would just give a
(55:32):
little, a little of their time,a little of their compassion,
just give a little, a little oftheir time, a little of their
compassion, a little bit oftheir, their resources.
And I think that if we can cometogether to you, act now U A C
T N O Wcom, and I think thatlet's go change the world.
Speaker 2 (55:49):
Yeah, amen, yeah, I.
I, as part of the because ofthe kite book.
A mayor of a small town inIllinois reached out and said we
have an alcohol and drugaddiction epidemic in our town.
It's killing people, it'sdestroying families.
I have a hint that childhoodtrauma is behind it.
(56:13):
Would you organize a town hallmeeting and share what you've
learned?
And he knows nothing about thegreater than gravity book.
Right On August 15th, I'mgiving, I'm going to give a
keynote speech at a town halland hope to pack the house and
hope to use that as the launchdate of the, of the movement, of
(56:33):
the book, of the website.
And you know, and think aboutcommunities, imagine starting
creating UAC coalitions withineach community, right, right.
So I don't have the model, butmaybe we can create a model.
Maybe we can use thisWilmington, illinois as the
(56:54):
launch test case Right.
We know one thing, Attattempting to help is not going
to hurt, right.
Speaker 1 (57:02):
Yes, and as long as that help is helpful.
That's always my caveat,because I see so much in my
field where they're trying tohelp and really they're not.
Speaker 2 (57:15):
That's why I have my expert, lee Long and his
committee to bless and endorseand agree upon.
Do no harm, right, right.
Because I might if it's MikeMenard, I might say things that
will send somebody sideways, butit's your job and gift to do
(57:38):
that.
Right to just I can say this isblessed by this, this, this
committee.
Yeah, it's not mike menard,it's you.
Act right right.
Speaker 1 (57:50):
Well, mike, thank you so much for being with us today
thank you, lee such a.
You are a blessing you are.
You are such a just, such a gemof a human being and I just I'm
thankful for you, I'm thankfulfor your passion, I'm thankful
for your not giving up, and so Ihope that.
(58:13):
I hope that, as this reachesthe listeners, that I hope our
listeners are just, I hope theysee the vision and I hope they
act.
Speaker 2 (58:23):
So thank you for and Lee, they can reach me through
the website.
So you know I'll make the offerto anyone listening that if you
have an idea, if you have aquestion, you know if you have a
dollar, just call me, there itis.
All right, lee, thank you verymuch.
Good to see you.
Thank you, yeah.
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