February 25, 2025 • 50 mins
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https://www.sobersis.com/home38426642
In this episode of Restoration Beyond the Couch, Dr. Lee Long sits down with Jenn Kautsch, also known as Sober Sis, for part two of their conversation on embracing a sober mindset. This time, they explore how sobriety impacts relationships, social dynamics, and daily life, offering practical strategies for maintaining clarity and balance.
Whether you're navigating your own sober journey or simply seeking a healthier approach to alcohol, this episode provides valuable insights and real-world applications for intentional living.
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:02):
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long and today I'mjoined once again by Jen Couch,
also known as Sobersis.
In our last conversation weexplored the sober curious
movement and the mindset shiftbehind alcohol-free living free
(00:27):
living.
In this episode, we're takingit a step further.
We're diving into the practicaleveryday applications of a
sober lifestyle, from socialsettings to self-care strategies
.
Jen shares insights onnavigating life with a clear
mind and a renewed purpose.
Whether you're exploringsobriety or simply looking for a
healthier approach toalpha-carotene, this episode is
(00:49):
full of wisdom and real-worldtakeaways.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here.
Welcome, jen.
I'm so glad you're here with ustoday.
We've had you on before and,gosh, what a response that we
got from you being here talkingabout sober mindedness and all
(01:12):
that you've created and all thatyou've pulled together and so
wonderfully and vulnerably laidout there as sober sis.
So again, thank you for thatand welcome back to Restoration
Beyond the Couch.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, thank you, really thank you for having me
back and look forward to kind ofdiving in, yeah, this whole
sober minded viewpoint, which isso different than I think, what
people think it is think it is.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I think that's really well stated, because I think
people look at that and think,oh, that means alcohol free or
substance free, but you havetaken it to, I think, a new
height, a new, um, new places,and I'm eager for you to talk to
us about that.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, I always say being sober minded is looking
alive in your own life.
It's being awake, alert, awareand present in your own life,
and so it's more about what youare doing, what you're focusing
on, rather than just abstinenceor what you're not doing, which
(02:21):
is what you typically think ofwhen you hear the word sober.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So I think sober minded, like you said, just
brings it all in, and it's moreabout what you're adding in
versus just what you're takingaway scarcity mindset, right,
(02:48):
that somehow somebody's takingthings from us, because when
it's interesting, when you thinkabout the concept of
communication and when we talkabout something and we're
telling somebody you're doingthis wrong, the very thing that
happens is that is defense, likesomebody gets defensive super
quickly.
You know you don't ever supportme.
Yes, I do Right, right, right,as opposed to hey.
I could use some support here,which is kind of the concept of
(03:10):
what you're talking about.
It's this is what I'm adding tomy life.
Is awareness so bright likesober mindedness, awake, aware,
alert and alive?
Is that?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
right Awake, alert, aware and present.
Just being present, you knowlike look down where are your
feet right now.
Well, that's where you are.
What's going on there?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah.
So, as you've embarked uponthis sober-minded trek, how has
this?
Well, I should back up.
Has it changed yourrelationships, like, has it
changed the way that you engagewith the people that are?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
close to you.
Oh my goodness, yes, yes.
This.
This journey has been anincredible windy road of um, a
lot of personal discovery,growth, and it's all through
relationship, everything isthrough relationship and I will
(04:13):
say, since going on thissober-minded I like the word
trek that was a good one.
Expedition adventure.
I love that, it's all of thesethings, because, just like I get
to tell the women I work with,like, pack up your gear, we're
going on an expedition, there'sgoing to be highs and lows,
storms that roll in out ofnowhere and vistas that will
(04:34):
take your breath away, and it islike that, and it is like that
in relationships, and so, really, for me, where it all began was
the relationship I had withmyself.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
That's it, that's right.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
That's where and that's where the ongoing work is
probably most deep for me.
And then that spills out andoverflows into my other
relationships.
But having my verticalrelationship, where I've got my
identity in Christ settled in mymind and then can work from
(05:10):
that place of belonging andbeing known and unconditionally
loved and accepted and then dothe work inside to get to that
place, to that place, it'schanged everything for me in
other relationships.
Because again, going back tomore aware, more alert to
attunement around other peopleand coming from a place of
(05:32):
wholeness and overflow, or atleast awareness, when I'm not
integrated, when I'm not livingwholehearted, I'm also aware of
that too.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, how, and I'm assuming cause what you're
talking about.
I love the word expeditionbecause our adventure, that's my
favorite is the adventure of itis because it it this.
It lays out a visual for me atleast and I would imagine for
others, of, like you said,there's ups and downs and and we
(06:04):
start in an adventure.
In my mind, I look at it asclimbing a mountain.
We start at the base of themountain and then there's so
much that we discover as we keepclimbing, trekking up.
And I'm curious were theredistinct differences at the
beginning of this adventure, tosay today?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
For sure.
First off, I think when Istarted my adventure I mean,
let's just take this analogy allthe way, just you know, at base
camp, when everyone's packingon their gear, getting their
backpacks out, trying tominimize the weight that they're
gonna carry for the journey sothat they can be lighter on
their feet and have, you know,more sustainability to keep on
(06:47):
going I think for me, what Irealized was there was a lot
more I needed to unpack than Irealized.
I didn't realize that I wasliterally carrying around these
bricks in my backpack that wereslowing down my progress and
it's never about perfection,it's always about progress.
(07:08):
But if you want to make um, youknow better time and just have
better relationships.
I think, for me, just realizingoh man, I'm carrying stuff
around that that doesn't serveme anymore, it doesn't serve
anyone.
In fact, I haven't cleaned outmy backpack in a while.
So that was that was first stepfor me was just seeing what was
(07:29):
there.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I love that and I love that we're staying with
this analogy.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
This is brilliant.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I love that because one of the things that I say
agnosium is that it starts withan intra personal awareness,
like we have to understand whowe are first before we can
interact in an interpersonalrelationship, which is a self
plus others type of interaction.
(07:54):
And so you, cleaning out yourbackpack is such a real, a
beautiful analogy of I have torealize what's impacting me,
what's weighing me down andbeing more sober minded about
that and what that costs me inthe in keeping with our analogy,
as you said, the timing or theswiftness of which I race up the
(08:17):
mountain.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yep, yep, because it really is.
I mean, when you're on a trekor this expedition or this great
adventure which you know, thinkabout an adventure.
When you first start out, youmaybe see the summit, you see
where you're wanting to go andwhat I've learned along this
journey in relationships andjust sober-minded living all
together, where I'm alwaysfocusing on my presence, like
(08:41):
just being where I am, mypresence, like just being where
I am.
And you know, to get to thesummit is not always necessarily
well the goal.
I mean you've got to.
I think direction matters morethan speed, so you've got to
know where you're going,otherwise you're just going in a
circle.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You're just kind of wandering around so.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I think it's important to have this ascension
mindset of like I want to keepclimbing higher, but you've also
got to know how to take reststops.
You've got to know how to.
You know I always say in justmy life, you know, learn how to
rest, not quit, and I thinkthat's true also, you know, in
relationships with yourself andothers is just knowing when to
(09:24):
kind of pull back and rest for aminute.
And just I think there's somuch to just taking snapshot
inventories of checking in withothers.
You've taught me that, you'vetaught me the importance of
checking in with others, and tome that's like you're on the
trail head down, you're grindingit out, you got the backpack on
.
It's good to pull over withyour trail mates and just go.
(09:46):
How are you doing?
Do you need anything?
You know, are your, are yoursocks still dry?
You know what's happening?
Um, or just checking in witheach other in relationships so
important.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
I love what you're, what you're laying out there,
because I think that not only isit important for us to check in
on others, but as we'regrinding it out up that trail,
it's super important to go wheream I in this?
Totally, and that then checkingin on somebody else is saying,
okay, where are you in this, andnow where are we as a result,
and how do we navigate that?
(10:20):
And when we're sober minded, wecan have a much greater sense
(10:47):
of where we are, to then makespace or room for where the
other is in it, up that thatsummit or grinding it up that
trail, that I need to be awareof me.
It's like you said I need toknow where my feet are, that's
right.
And then, as I know where I am,I can start to consider wait,
where are you?
Like you're my rucking buddyand I need to make sure that I'm
not on this ruck all by myself,like, wait, where's my ruck?
There you are, like, how areyou?
Are you okay?
(11:08):
Are your socks still dry, likeyou said?
Yeah, so that's a yeah, that'sreally that's great.
Yeah, so what as, as you'reconsidering, like, the advice or
the wisdom that you impart tothese, these amazing women that
are reaching out to you, and I'mI'm imagining that that there
(11:30):
are some of them that are outthere, they're dating, they're
there and maybe even now I needto be careful how I say this but
maybe they're dating in theirrelation, in their marriage.
I don't mean dating otherpeople, I mean dating their
(11:51):
marriage.
I don't mean dating otherpeople, I mean dating their
spouse.
But in that essence of likecoming back to a place where,
like, they're really trying toexplore sober mindedness in this
arena of other people.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, Hopefully that question makes sense.
Yeah, it does, Because I cantell you I am almost 30 years
married and I am dating myhusband, so I do know what you
mean and I think it takes.
I think that it takes that kindof engagement in the
relationship.
It is so easy in life to get onautopilot and just cruise
(12:18):
through, just cruise control,put the map away and just kind
of wander around and I think,truly being engaged all in all
present, the good, the bad, theugly, all of it is where it's at
.
You know, I've learned a lot inthese last years, being
(12:40):
sober-minded and takingseriously that.
You know my words matter, mypresence matters and so do other
peoples.
And I think for a while thereI'd minimized my voice,
minimized my presence and I wasnot living sober minded.
And whether that was because Iwas numbed out on a glass of
wine in the evenings orsomething else that took my
(13:03):
presence away, it's so much morethan what, like you said at the
beginning, what it is thattakes your presence away.
In fact, really, alcohol for mewas just a solution, it wasn't
really the problem.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And that's that's a big part of this journey is
realizing that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And that is so important because I think that
that is so true as it relates toany coping mechanism we use.
It's the attempt of a solution.
It's not the core of the issue.
Therefore, do we spend the time, the awareness, to be sober
(13:41):
minded, to come back toourselves and evaluate hey,
what's going on here?
So, as people are dating,what's?
Speaker 3 (13:49):
going on here, so as people are dating.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
How does one who wants to be sober minded?
How do they go about this?
I mean cause most people aregoing to say let's meet for
happy hour.
Let's meet for drinks.
Oh yeah, let's go to dinner.
You want to meet at the bar.
So how do you, how do you walkthese ladies through navigating
this?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
For sure, and I do work with a lot of single ladies
and, you know, divorce ladiesthat are getting back out there
and in our very alcohol centricculture it is a let's meet for
drinks society culture and Ithink what people are really
saying when they say let's meetfor drinks is let's connect,
(14:27):
let's connect, let's gettogether, and pretty much
evening time for adults that isusually centered around alcohol.
It's just part of our societyand so I think, knowing that
ahead of time and being able tobe like proactive and say I
would love to connect and thengive some other options or head
(14:49):
to the bar, it could be verytelling for the person that
you're interested in to just seesome of not not to judge them
in any way, shape or form Right,but just out of curiosity you
do, you let them, do them andand see what that feels like.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
How do you I think that's great how do you coach?
How do you coach these ladiesthrough like, okay, I'm going to
go to the bar because I feelstrong enough, let's say to not,
you know, tip a balance into aplace that I don't want to be.
In other words, I'm not goingto.
You know, order a bunch ofdrinks that I'll regret tomorrow
(15:26):
.
So I feel confident in that, andso I go.
How do they?
How do you coach them through?
Or do you coach them throughhow to navigate the wait?
Why aren't you drinking?
Well, don't you want?
What do you?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
say and I love the practicality angle you're going
here because I think that's whatpeople wanna know is what do I
say, what do I do?
And that is one of my resources.
I do have a free guide outthere for women to help them
navigate happy hours, wineo'clock and whatnot.
So I know you'll put those inthe show notes, but I do think
(16:01):
that there are three Ps that Iabsolutely love talking about,
and these are easy to remember.
So if you're driving andlistening, you can actually kind
of file these away in your inyour mind for moments, just like
you're talking about Lee, whereyou're at the bar.
You're going to a girl's nightor a wedding or whatever, and
you don't want to, you don'twant to drink, you want to stay
(16:23):
in your sober mind, literally.
And what do you do?
Well, the first step is predecide literally.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And what do you do?
Well, the first step ispre-decide.
Okay, pause.
That's brilliant, because whenyou get in there, you're toast
man.
You are If you don't know whatyou don't know, yeah.
That was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
So yeah, first step is pre-decide.
You cannot decide once you getthere, if you're at all on the
fence.
Just know this.
Your maybe means yes.
Your maybe means yes becausethe current is so strong.
And if you have been in what Icall the detox to retox loop,
(17:03):
where you're just in a cycle ofmindful by day doing all the
right things, working out, gotgreen juice going, you're buying
all organic, and then in theevenings you're like, and I
think I'll kind of take the edgeoff from the day or celebrate
all my job well done, it's goingto be really easy to go to that
as a default.
Your brain's actually wired todo that if you do it on
(17:26):
repetition.
So if you've got a repetitionof drinking in a social setting
and you go to a social settingwithout pre-deciding before you
get there, consider it just.
I mean, we talked earlier aboutthis adventure and this
expedition consider it verysteep.
It's a very steep climb to walkinto a situation like that,
(17:47):
having not pre-decided.
I love that.
So that's the first one.
The second P is pre-plan.
So, once you've pre-decided, Iwork with a lot of women who are
like, yeah, I'm deciding, butthen I don't know what to do.
Yes, and this is where thepractical part of what I love
talking about comes in.
Pre-planning is taking thatdecision and then executing it
(18:10):
in a way where you know what tosay, you know what to order.
I always at first now I don'teven think twice about it,
because I'm just good a lot oftimes with my water- I don't
even care, Because it's becomeyour loop right.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
It has become my loop .
Speaker 1 (18:23):
It's your muscle, through practice Right.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Just only through practice, not because you know
well and you can't unknow whatyou know.
And now I've known more aboutthe science behind alcohol, so I
feel more empowered.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
But and there's and I'm going to start to sidetrack
us here for just a half secondyeah, but there's also a
neurological pathway that you're, that you're burning.
That's a really good pathway.
Yeah, for example, I'm in this.
I work out with a group ofpeople.
There's a new person in ourworkout group.
(18:55):
He is an older gentleman who isnot accustomed to working out
and he's not accustomed to thesemovements, and so for him it's
like doing a movement in anabbreviated way, over and over
and over again, and then he's upwith the big boys and he's
doing the movement like he'sbeen doing it forever.
But he had to neurologicallygrow accustomed to what that
(19:19):
movement was.
And from what you're saying, asyou're describing it, it is a
movement and it's a.
It's a, it's like a, it's aneurological, it's a behavior,
and so it's this place ofpre-planning and knowing I'm
good with my water and I don'teven have to think about it it's
become habitual, you'rehabituating it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Exactly.
This is great.
Keep going, yeah, yeah.
So when you're new to this andyou don't have that habit loop
yet reformed and you know it canbe nerve wracking, it's really
that awkward moment when you sitdown at a table and everyone's
making their drink orders andyou're like it's part of the
pre-planning.
That is part of the pre-planningis knowing what you're going to
(19:59):
say when you walk in there.
Because when you're, whenyou're, when you are sitting at
a table where pretty mucheveryone unless you know you're
pregnant or sick or whatever,unless there's like an
extenuating circumstance whichis changing.
I am joking somewhat, but notreally it really is changing.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
It is changing.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
And I've been at tables where I'm the only
non-drinker on purpose, bychoice, right, and it is by
choice and I think that's alsovery empowering I can have what
I want to drink when I want todrink it.
I just choose to bealcohol-free because it feels
better to me, it serves mypresence better and my awake and
(20:37):
alert being present in my ownlife.
But a lot of the pre-planningis knowing what you're going to
say.
So, for example, if I were towalk into a party or meet up
with someone and everyone'sordering drinks and a waiter or
waitress or hostess with themostest comes up to me and says,
hey, jen, can I get yousomething to drink?
(20:58):
I put a big, true smile on myface and I say yes, not no.
I say yes, I would love some,and then fill in the blank hey,
maybe you just need some waterbecause you've been running
around all day and you're justneeding to hydrate.
Maybe you're thirsty.
Maybe you have looked ahead andseen if that menu offers
(21:20):
mocktails or zero-proofcocktails, I like to call them.
So maybe you've done a littlebit of recon where you've called
ahead.
Maybe you've gotten there fiveminutes early, swung by, talk to
the bartender and say, hey, I'mnot drinking tonight.
You don't have to make this bigproduction About anything.
It's really no one's businesswhat you're drinking, right, and
(21:43):
you don't have to justify whyyou're not drinking.
But it is okay to takeownership and agency and say I'm
not drinking.
But it is okay to takeownership and agency and say I'm
not drinking tonight.
I love saying that, becausepeople don't know that I'm AKA
sober sis, or that I'm living analcohol-free lifestyle or doing
this work.
They just know I'm not drinkingtonight, and so I can say that
with complete confidence and saybut what else do you have?
(22:04):
Or do you have anything on yourmenu that's alcohol-free?
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I can ask and a lot of times they do.
I love that.
I have a gluten allergy and soevery time most restaurants I
shouldn't say every time mostrestaurants I am going to go
look ahead at their menu,because it's the whole place of
not being the guy that says,wait, well, I have a gluten
allergy and so let's bringattention to that.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And you're right, it's the exact same thing
Totally.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
In that says wait, well, I have a gluten allergy,
and so let's bring attention tothat.
And you're right, it's theexact same thing, Totally In
that.
It's just yes, I would lovesomething.
What do we have here?
And it's like do you have agluten-free menu?
Or you know, you've some peopleare vegan.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Some people are alcohol free.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So do you have a favorite drink that you do?
You have a favorite go-to?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
well, actually I do okay, because better than water.
Better than water, although itis, I shouldn't say better, a
more exciting than waterabsolutely, and this is really
easy for most restaurants andbartenders to crank out, because
it it is a mineral watersparkling water base.
I like topo chico because youknow we're here in texas oh yeah
, big bubbles baby.
(23:09):
Wherever you are.
Yeah, carbonated.
There's something about acarbonated drink that is just
really refreshing.
So whatever kind of basemineral water, sparkling water,
and then it is so easy becausemost restaurants and bars have
cucumbers and for you, ladiesout there, you know what I'm
talking about when you havecucumbers in your water.
(23:36):
what do you think of?
Like a spa day?
Like real refreshing.
It's so refreshing to havecucumber in your water and lime.
So ask them to muddle cucumberand lime with a Topo Chico and
then you can even get superfancy and salt the rim.
It's delicious.
Wow, it's so good.
What it's delicious.
Wow, it's so good that that is,doesn't it make?
You thirsty right now.
Yeah, if y'all could see him.
He's literally salivating.
(23:56):
He's so thirsty.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, no, this is so okay.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Try it next time y'all go out.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
I think I might so good and I've never.
The cool thing about this andthis is what has me totally
fired up.
Yes, it is the lime.
I love lime Me too.
Yes, it is the lime and maybethe cucumber.
I'm a little on the fence aboutthe cucumber, but I get the
fresh part of it.
What has me so fired up is I'venever considered like sprucing
(24:25):
up a Topo Chico in that way.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Right.
I just don't, and I want it ina pretty glass too, you know
like it's the whole aesthetic,it's the whole thing, which is,
again, I think, why a lot oftimes people are in this social
pattern or this habitual loop.
It's the ritual, it's thereward.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
It really is the ritual.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
And there's nothing wrong with that.
I think it's awesome tocelebrate life that way, whether
that's in your own kitchen atfive o'clock, I encourage women
to still pull out that prettyglass.
Just what are you putting in it?
Be mindful, be intentional.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I think that's at the heart of the whole thing.
It's being mindful andintentional and you have to
understand you to understand theintention Right.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So these ladies that are out dating and they've
chosen this sober-mindedlifestyle and that for them
means sober-minded fromsubstances, alcohol, any wisdom
that you could offer them, andthis is not just for ladies guys
(25:40):
, too, who have decided that asober-minded life is something
very important to them, that asober minded life is something
very important to them, andthey're they're in the dating
scene and they get the bigquestions about it.
Like, why are you not drinking?
Like do you have an addiction?
Like, did you have a problem?
What are some of the thingsthat you coach these ladies
(26:01):
through?
And guys, this, this all cantranslate for you as well.
So, yeah, it's sober sis, butwe can also call it the sober
bro for now.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Totally Listen up, bros.
No, totally Well, and I dothink it is a confidence that
comes from within.
You've got to know why you'redoing what you're doing and go
back to your why all the time,all the time.
Why do I do the things I do andwhy do I do the things I don't
(26:29):
want to do?
Well, a big part ofsober-minded living is trying to
align by doing the things, thatis you do want to do.
It's less about what are wetaking away, it's what we're
adding in, it's what we'regaining.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yes, ma'am, we talk all the time around these
hallways, here, about livingaccording to your values, and
that's exactly what you'resaying.
It sounds like yeah, and soknowing your, why and I love
what you're saying is your whydoes it need to be negative?
Because you had a problem?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
with it Exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
No, because I like.
Like you said, I, I enjoy.
You didn't quite say it likethis, but this is my
interpretation of it is, I enjoymyself far more when I am awake
, alive and alert.
And I know I didn't get all theA's right.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
No, that was good, but it's true.
And too, if you think about it,even in a dating scenario, is
alcohol really connecting?
I would beg to differ.
I would say no.
When you're using any substancethat takes away your presence
of mind, alters your mind,literally your brain.
(27:39):
You are less there, you areless present.
So, if we get together fordrinks or my goodness, in the
dating world, especially if youreally are starting over and and
if you're dating your spouse,but if, if you're not bringing
all of yourself, your authentic,true, imperfect, messy self,
(28:00):
but that part of you which isyou know, I get it Many drinkers
, I think the numbers arestaggering of the number of
people that drink out of socialanxiety.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Right.
So that's a very real thing andI realize that.
I mean I think most adults,when they enter a networking
event, a party, even you know,even good friends there's still
that opportunity for you as agrown up, as an adult, to enter
in a room and think to yourselfdo I belong, do I fit in, do
(28:34):
they like me?
Do I look okay?
Am I making sense?
All those things.
And I think there's a lot ofenergies that come in a room or
to a, you know, to a tabletop.
When you're meeting someoneone-on-one, you don't know where
that person's coming from orthe day they to a, you know, to
a tabletop.
When you're meeting someoneone-on-one, yes, you don't know
where that person's coming fromor the day they've had or what
the tapes that are playing intheir mind.
So a lot of people subdue allof that by getting that first
(28:57):
drink.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, and the interesting thing about this is
people often say to me, you know, in a session they'll say, well
, they said to me this thingwhile they were drunk or they
were under the influence, and sothat you know, that makes them
tell the truth.
I'm like actually it doesn'tRight.
There is this myopic sense ofus focusing on the things that
(29:21):
we walked into that situationwith.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
And what if?
If we're, if we have socialanxiety and to take from what
you're describing, what do theythink of me?
Do I belong here?
Am I okay?
All of these themes where we'retrying, we're assessing our
value are really lack thereof.
We'll become myopically focusedon that and inhibited.
(29:45):
Therefore, we're going to bemore of that.
Meaning not sure we belong andtherefore it's that confirmation
bias Exactly right.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And that insecurity is going to play louder, well,
and then what happens is alcoholwhispers in my ear.
You need me.
In fact, you wouldn't have beenable to even do as well as you
did if you didn't have me.
In fact, you wouldn't have beenable to even do as well as you
did if you didn't have me.
And then we outsource.
It is an outsourcing of ourresilience and our confidence,
and even some of our identity of.
(30:16):
I can't do that without a drinkin my hand.
Right and the crazy, whichconfirms I'm not enough, I don't
belong, unless I go outside ofmyself to bring something in,
and then that starts a wholenother loop.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And it's a downward spiral.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, it's going to take you places you don't want
to go and take you away fromyour authentic self in your
presence, and I've got to tellyou, as a person now that's
choosing this alcohol-freelifestyle.
I still feel the feels.
When I walk in a room, my heartraces a little bit I can still
kind of flutter, and I know thistoo shall pass very quickly and
(30:56):
very shortly that it's anatural part of being human, and
if I short-circuit that, if Istop that natural adjustment
from happening by alteringreality and bending it for just
a minute, it's not real, it'snot as real I should say.
And so I'd rather live inreality, see what I'm dealing
(31:16):
with, feel the feels that arevery temporary, and then I just
feel stronger, like, oh okay, Idon't have to have something
outside of me to make me feelokay.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, yeah, and it's.
It's interesting because that'show we build strength, like
you're.
You're describing is we, wehave this exposure to it and you
know we think about everybodyfeels a sense of something.
It's not abnormal and I, youknow, I and I think I'm
attributing this to the rightperson, but I think Brene Brown,
(31:50):
who I think most people knowshe is, but she, I believe this
is her saying yes, you're scared, but scared and excited are
really close emotions.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Where they show up in our neurology is very close, so
could we be skided.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Right Like scared and excited, all at the same time.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
And I think that's a really good point is can I just
go in and work through thesenerves, these jitters and say
yeah, I'm actually reallyexcited.
You know, if you're sittingdown with a new and potentially
a potential new, it's saying I'mreally excited about meeting
them and I hope that they youknow, are they enjoy me?
(32:33):
I hope that they.
But I also want to propose theidea that you're also
interviewing them.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
That's right that it's not just a one way thing.
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
One of my mentors was talking with someone who was
applying for a doctoral programand he said to this individual
hey, remember, this isn't yougoing out there trying to make
yourself look enticing.
This is also you in, uh,interviewing them to make sure
(33:08):
they're a good fit.
Yeah, and his, his, his adviceto this person was be you right
out of the gate.
Be you right out of the gatebecause this is a big commitment
, just like a partnership.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
And so you want to make sure you're authentic and
you see that they're authentic,because the last thing you want
and I'm saying this from adating position, the last thing
that a person wants is to getinto a partnership with somebody
that they don't fullyunderstand if they're a match
for which brings us to a wholeother topic of how do I know if
(33:43):
I'm a match.
Well, there's some researchersout there that say you're a
match with anyone.
What matters is is do youbelieve that you can put
together the bridge that helpsone person bridge to another?
And that's a whole differentconversation.
But we're not going to knowthat if we're not sober minded
in the way we walk in as us andthat we observe them way we walk
(34:08):
in as us and that we observethem.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Well, there's something really good, really
awesome, about being authenticand it being allowed to make
mistakes or show up and be alittle awkward or a little silly
yes, even married all theseyears.
My sweet hubby, craig, and Ijust had a moment the other
night where it was like, wow,yeah, 30 years in, we can still
fumble the ball.
But it was real.
(34:37):
It was 100% unmasked posturingor anything.
We just had some awkwardnesstogether at 30 years and we
laughed and we celebrated thatwe still could because we were
so present in the moment.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Thank you for saying that, because I mean, my wife
and I haven't been togetherquite 30 years, but but close,
and I I have to say that it's.
It is refreshing to know thatwe still have this opportunity
to get to know each other.
(35:16):
It's not static and we aregoing to fumble, we are going to
say dumb things.
There's times when I do thingsand I feel a little tinge of
embarrassment because she saw medo that or trip over that, or
you know, say you know, get mywords back, whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
In knowing that those awkward moments still happen,
that there's not this fantasyout there, right, that we get to
that.
Then everything feels nice andgood, and it just doesn't happen
that way.
Yeah, yeah, that's it justdoesn't happen that way.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
That's.
There's a joy.
There's a joy that comes inbeing present, fully present,
and there's there's just more ofof everything.
It's like living life inTechnicolor.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
That is very well said.
It is like living life inTechnicolor.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Being present for yourself.
Once we understand who we are,what that begins to unlock.
I mean, sometimes this maysound silly, but sometimes I
feel like there is this I don'tknow this key that we have of
understanding ourselves andlearning to communicate from the
(36:29):
place of you.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Your Ness.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
That, yes, that unlocks this ability to have a
really cool relationship, and inthat it's like I want to go
shout it from the mountaintopsand show everybody hey, wait,
wait, wait, there's a key here.
It'll unlock everything for you.
It's like.
It's like having access to theforce.
Those of you who are star Warsfans.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Totally.
I mean when you're, when you'recomfortable in your own skin,
which again is where the work isreally done.
This is an inside job.
It is an inside job Well said,so, when you're real, think
about it.
I mean my closest comrades,that's what I call my real close
friends.
That's a John Townsend termfrom People Fuel great book
(37:15):
about relational nutrients andin that he talks about the seven
Cs and he talks about havingcomrades and I would consider my
comrades just a small handfulof women that are so secure in
who they are that it gives mepermission to be totally who I
am.
That's right.
There's nothing I can say or dothat's going to change who they
(37:38):
are for me.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
They're not going to shape shift and they're not
going to.
They're not going to collapseand crumble.
Um, based on anything I'msaying or doing and I can be my
silly self, my serious self, Ican bring it all and to me those
are the friends that I'm like.
I don't think there's anythingI can say or do that would make
you run.
Say or do that would make yourun, and that's built on our
(38:04):
real moments together.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
And I have that with friends who drink alcohol and
with friends who don't drinkalcohol.
Sure Because it's not about thealcohol, because that's not our
common bond, it's our presenceand how we relate to each other
in a present way.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yes, because being sober minded isn't about the
alcohol outside of you, right,it's about the sober mindedness
inside of you yes, yeah, andthat's that's good.
I think that there's.
I think that that piece of whatyou just explained is really
important.
In all relationships, there aregoing to be times where you are
in an in an environment that isgoing to erupt something inside
(38:45):
of you, where you take a leftturn when you're pre-planning,
you're pre-deciding, you'repre-planning, you, you wanted to
go right, but you took a left.
And so, yes, we have to beaware of the fact that there's
environments that we have tosteer away from, but those
(39:06):
environments don't define us.
And when we get to a placewhere we have the strength to
pre-plan and pre-pre-preparethis plan, then we have a better
footing underneath us.
And I just want to throw out anaside, and and I I'm I want to
(39:29):
also give you your shot at thistoo If you make a mistake and
you, you turn left when youmeant to turn right, there's
always an opportunity for youturn always.
And the biggest piece in my mindis please don't shame yourself,
because that's like Fight Club,and if you haven't seen the
movie, I'm about to ruin it foryou.
(39:51):
He's fighting himself theentire time.
Don't do that.
Be gentle with you Because,like you said, this is an inside
job.
Be gentle with you because,like you said, this is an inside
job.
So the harder you are on you,the less likely you are to show
up authentic.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, and what we tend to do when we make a
mistake or slip up is we firsttake that slip and we make it a
slide.
Yeah, I mean, it is like, ohwell, never mind, I can't do
this.
And so it's easy to takesomething small and let it
snowball into something biggerthan it really needs to be.
(40:29):
What if we looked at a setbackas valuable feedback, and
setbacks can define you in a I'mgoing backwards negative way.
Valuable feedback is like, ohman, I needed that to move
forward, because now Iunderstand more of what I need
and what I want.
And, to your point, isolation,man.
(40:50):
That is where shame is like abreeding ground.
Yeah, it is, as Brene Brown, toquote her again, talks about
how shame in a Petri dish byitself will just metastasize and
grow and get worse.
But you drop empathy in theshame and it can't survive.
And you can't get empathysometimes from you, can get it
from yourself, but if you're ata place where you're really
(41:12):
feeling broken down and and youknow, flawed and all these
things, this is where connectionbecomes critical.
I mean, that's the heart ofwhat I do is bring women out of
the shadows, literally andfiguratively, their own shadows,
their shadow selves, theirshadow sides and the actual
(41:34):
shadows of hiding their mistake,their slip up, their shame.
I did all the things and then Istill didn't execute the right
plan.
At the very end I gave in.
And that's where gettingempathy from others and
identification from others cantotally help you course correct
in a whole new way.
(41:55):
I mean course correction, orthe U-turn, is one of the
pillars of being able to live asober-minded life.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
You know, we always say to parents you have to
connect before you can correct,and I think that's true for
ourselves.
We have to connect back to wait.
Why am I doing this?
What is that?
Go back to the why, I'm doingthis because I want to show up
alive, authentic, awake andaware.
And I know, I'm mixing your A'sup, it's okay.
(42:23):
I'll make you a t-shirt.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
And.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
I will wear it.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
But we have to show up in that sense, and the best
way for us to do that is to knowwho we are, and part of knowing
who we are is knowing what canI learn from that?
Okay, I made a mistake, it's adata point.
Now what do I learn, that's allit is, because what I see often
is when people make mistakes,they want to get away from them.
Right so they, they avoid them,they don't want to talk about
(42:47):
it.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I don't want to look at suppress Right, ignore.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
But when you look at them you can say oh, I see, I
got stressed, I was dehydrated,I you know I my plan was to
drink one drink and I drank fivebecause I got nervous and I was
thirsty and.
I just zipped that thing downlike it's nobody's business and
you know what?
(43:10):
I blew through my plan.
Okay, well, no shame.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
In fact, in our group we actually we want those
shares.
We're looking for women toshare about their recon, their
data points, their vow.
It's valuable feedback, notonly for the person who feel
like you know they slipped andfell, but it's valuable for
everybody else in the communityaround them because we all get
it, we all type one, understandthere's a common humanity going
(43:38):
on here, without question.
Where it's like I can have, Iwould have compassion for you.
Why can't I have compassion formyself?
And then, when you have thiswhole atmosphere of compassion
and acceptance again not licenseor like oh, yeah, you do you.
but we're working with women,who I am, who want to level up,
who want to be their best self,and so it's all for one, one for
(44:01):
all, in that way, and yeah,it's like okay, I mean, if
you're running a marathon,you're not going to fall down on
mile 17 because you trippedover a rock or shoelace, came
untied or whatever happens in amarathon that would make someone
literally fall down.
You're not going to go back tothe starting line.
There's nobody there.
That's right.
(44:21):
The race isn't going that way.
Nobody's race is going that way.
That would be like to me, a dayone, like a racing, the 17
miles that you ran in a marathonto go back to the starting line
.
It's like someone trying topractice a new lifestyle and
going back to a day one becausethey messed up on day 68 or six
years or whatever it is.
(44:42):
You didn't lose all those daysor all those miles that you ran
or were on this track expeditionadventure.
They're all still there.
So just use it as a data pointand keep going.
That's exactly growing.
I mean that's.
That's what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
That's right.
I often say you're it's.
Life is like a bike race.
You're going to fall, and whenyou?
Do expect it almost like you doexpect it.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
It's like.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
It's like mountain bikers, it's not if I'm going to
.
If I'm going to crash, it'swhen I.
And how do we minimize it?
Yeah Right, and so there's.
There's a place for us to bemindful even about that and it's
funny that you use the marathonanalogy.
I was thinking as you weredescribing this you know, I I
(45:33):
used to be an avid runner and Idon't like to fall down.
I don't know anybody who does,but I especially don't don't.
And I was running along on thissidewalk and my toe grazed the
side like a lip on the sidewalkand the concrete and I just went
face first.
(45:53):
I didn't have time to get myarms up and literally fell
straight on my cheek and Ithought I'm not going to stop
running.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I'm going to get up, I'm going to dust off and I'm
going to jog back.
And as I was jogging back, Iwas like why did I fall?
Oh, there was a, there was a, a, a, a raised part of the
sidewalk that I just didn'tnotice.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
So you know what I started doing, and this is maybe
a little extreme and maybe somepeople will think it's silly I
started running on the side ofthe road instead of the sidewalk
.
I know, I know there's carsthere, but that's what I felt
comfortable with.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
And so it was a.
It was a.
It was a navigation ofunderstanding.
If I'm running on a sidewalkthat has a lot of of cracks and
elevation changes that happenreally fast, then my solution
was not to quit running, it wasto just find a different surface
to run on.
Yeah, you adapted, that'sexactly right.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
To what you needed to do to enjoy the run.
Yes, you know.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And I do see that with our community, with women
who realize wait a minute.
First off, who am I runningwith?
Right, if I fall down andthere's someone there to help me
pick up, you know, stand up.
That's a lot different thanrunning by yourself in the dark
with a headlamp.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yes, and somebody who's going to call me the next
morning and say how are?
You feeling You're ready to getback out there?
Let's keep going.
Are we going to meet at ournormal time?
That's the beauty of acommunity and that's the thing
that I think is so importantthat we you know.
This is why I so appreciate youbeing here today is because
(47:26):
here we are talking about sobermindedness as it relates to
dating and relationships and howwe navigate all of this
together.
And where do you start?
You start with you.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Awake, alive, alert and awesome for your adventure.
There's another A.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
That's right Awake, alert, aware and present in your
own life.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
There it is, I love that one For your big adventure.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
For the adventure.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
And I just I so appreciate you being here again
and talking us through yoursober-minded adventure and just
sharing that with the world.
It's such a blessing, such ablessing of what you're sharing,
such a blessing to know thatthis, that you as such a
wonderful resource out here forso many women, just thank you,
(48:17):
Thank you for taking thatvulnerable step, Thank you for
offering that to to your tribe,to our tribe, to our listeners,
Like it is so meaningful, soimpactful and it's so wonderful
to have a trustworthy source toknow where we're starting is
with ourselves on the soberminded journey, awake, alive,
alert, aware at big adventureand present.
(48:39):
So please tell our listenerswhere they can find you.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Sure, well, they can go to my hub, which is
SoberSiscom, and this is bignews.
Sobersis, we just moved intothe nonprofit space, so now
we've got an ability to extendour reach to more and more women
.
So there are ways that, ifsober-minded living is something
(49:04):
that excites you but the actualchallenge or struggle with
alcohol is not your thing, butyou want to get on board Helping
women get out of that detoxretox loop or get more
confidence or get to these tools.
That's our initiative.
That's what we're trying to dois get my free guide in the
hands of one million women by2026.
(49:26):
I love that.
So I'm inviting women in thetribe, outside the tribe anyone
listening?
This is actually a movement,and so I invite more to join us
because it is making adifference.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yes, it is Awesome.
All right, yeah, thank you somuch, jen.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
If you found value in our discussion and Awesome, all
right.
Thank you so much, jen.
You're welcome.
Your journey to understandingand embracing mental health is
just beginning and we're excitedto have you with us every step
(50:05):
of the way.
Until next time, keep exploring, keep growing and remember to
celebrate restored freedom asyou uncover it.
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long and today I'mjoined once again by Jen Couch,
also known as Sobersis.
In our last conversation weexplored the sober curious
movement and the mindset shiftbehind alcohol-free living free
(00:27):
living.
In this episode, we're takingit a step further.
We're diving into the practicaleveryday applications of a
sober lifestyle, from socialsettings to self-care strategies
.
Jen shares insights onnavigating life with a clear
mind and a renewed purpose.
Whether you're exploringsobriety or simply looking for a
healthier approach toalpha-carotene, this episode is
(00:49):
full of wisdom and real-worldtakeaways.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here.
Welcome, jen.
I'm so glad you're here with ustoday.
We've had you on before and,gosh, what a response that we
got from you being here talkingabout sober mindedness and all
(01:12):
that you've created and all thatyou've pulled together and so
wonderfully and vulnerably laidout there as sober sis.
So again, thank you for thatand welcome back to Restoration
Beyond the Couch.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
Well, thank you, really thank you for having me
back and look forward to kind ofdiving in, yeah, this whole
sober minded viewpoint, which isso different than I think, what
people think it is think it is.
Speaker 1 (01:42):
I think that's really well stated, because I think
people look at that and think,oh, that means alcohol free or
substance free, but you havetaken it to, I think, a new
height, a new, um, new places,and I'm eager for you to talk to
us about that.
Speaker 2 (02:00):
Yeah, I always say being sober minded is looking
alive in your own life.
It's being awake, alert, awareand present in your own life,
and so it's more about what youare doing, what you're focusing
on, rather than just abstinenceor what you're not doing, which
(02:21):
is what you typically think ofwhen you hear the word sober.
Speaker 1 (02:24):
So I think sober minded, like you said, just
brings it all in, and it's moreabout what you're adding in
versus just what you're takingaway scarcity mindset, right,
(02:48):
that somehow somebody's takingthings from us, because when
it's interesting, when you thinkabout the concept of
communication and when we talkabout something and we're
telling somebody you're doingthis wrong, the very thing that
happens is that is defense, likesomebody gets defensive super
quickly.
You know you don't ever supportme.
Yes, I do Right, right, right,as opposed to hey.
I could use some support here,which is kind of the concept of
(03:10):
what you're talking about.
It's this is what I'm adding tomy life.
Is awareness so bright likesober mindedness, awake, aware,
alert and alive?
Is that?
Speaker 2 (03:21):
right Awake, alert, aware and present.
Just being present, you knowlike look down where are your
feet right now.
Well, that's where you are.
What's going on there?
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Yeah.
So, as you've embarked uponthis sober-minded trek, how has
this?
Well, I should back up.
Has it changed yourrelationships, like, has it
changed the way that you engagewith the people that are?
Speaker 2 (03:50):
close to you.
Oh my goodness, yes, yes.
This.
This journey has been anincredible windy road of um, a
lot of personal discovery,growth, and it's all through
relationship, everything isthrough relationship and I will
(04:13):
say, since going on thissober-minded I like the word
trek that was a good one.
Expedition adventure.
I love that, it's all of thesethings, because, just like I get
to tell the women I work with,like, pack up your gear, we're
going on an expedition, there'sgoing to be highs and lows,
storms that roll in out ofnowhere and vistas that will
(04:34):
take your breath away, and it islike that, and it is like that
in relationships, and so, really, for me, where it all began was
the relationship I had withmyself.
Speaker 1 (04:47):
That's it, that's right.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
That's where and that's where the ongoing work is
probably most deep for me.
And then that spills out andoverflows into my other
relationships.
But having my verticalrelationship, where I've got my
identity in Christ settled in mymind and then can work from
(05:10):
that place of belonging andbeing known and unconditionally
loved and accepted and then dothe work inside to get to that
place, to that place, it'schanged everything for me in
other relationships.
Because again, going back tomore aware, more alert to
attunement around other peopleand coming from a place of
(05:32):
wholeness and overflow, or atleast awareness, when I'm not
integrated, when I'm not livingwholehearted, I'm also aware of
that too.
Speaker 1 (05:42):
Yeah, how, and I'm assuming cause what you're
talking about.
I love the word expeditionbecause our adventure, that's my
favorite is the adventure of itis because it it this.
It lays out a visual for me atleast and I would imagine for
others, of, like you said,there's ups and downs and and we
(06:04):
start in an adventure.
In my mind, I look at it asclimbing a mountain.
We start at the base of themountain and then there's so
much that we discover as we keepclimbing, trekking up.
And I'm curious were theredistinct differences at the
beginning of this adventure, tosay today?
Speaker 2 (06:25):
For sure.
First off, I think when Istarted my adventure I mean,
let's just take this analogy allthe way, just you know, at base
camp, when everyone's packingon their gear, getting their
backpacks out, trying tominimize the weight that they're
gonna carry for the journey sothat they can be lighter on
their feet and have, you know,more sustainability to keep on
(06:47):
going I think for me, what Irealized was there was a lot
more I needed to unpack than Irealized.
I didn't realize that I wasliterally carrying around these
bricks in my backpack that wereslowing down my progress and
it's never about perfection,it's always about progress.
(07:08):
But if you want to make um, youknow better time and just have
better relationships.
I think, for me, just realizingoh man, I'm carrying stuff
around that that doesn't serveme anymore, it doesn't serve
anyone.
In fact, I haven't cleaned outmy backpack in a while.
So that was that was first stepfor me was just seeing what was
(07:29):
there.
Speaker 1 (07:30):
I love that and I love that we're staying with
this analogy.
Speaker 2 (07:32):
This is brilliant.
Speaker 1 (07:34):
I love that because one of the things that I say
agnosium is that it starts withan intra personal awareness,
like we have to understand whowe are first before we can
interact in an interpersonalrelationship, which is a self
plus others type of interaction.
(07:54):
And so you, cleaning out yourbackpack is such a real, a
beautiful analogy of I have torealize what's impacting me,
what's weighing me down andbeing more sober minded about
that and what that costs me inthe in keeping with our analogy,
as you said, the timing or theswiftness of which I race up the
(08:17):
mountain.
Speaker 2 (08:19):
Yep, yep, because it really is.
I mean, when you're on a trekor this expedition or this great
adventure which you know, thinkabout an adventure.
When you first start out, youmaybe see the summit, you see
where you're wanting to go andwhat I've learned along this
journey in relationships andjust sober-minded living all
together, where I'm alwaysfocusing on my presence, like
(08:41):
just being where I am, mypresence, like just being where
I am.
And you know, to get to thesummit is not always necessarily
well the goal.
I mean you've got to.
I think direction matters morethan speed, so you've got to
know where you're going,otherwise you're just going in a
circle.
Speaker 1 (09:01):
You're just kind of wandering around so.
Speaker 2 (09:02):
I think it's important to have this ascension
mindset of like I want to keepclimbing higher, but you've also
got to know how to take reststops.
You've got to know how to.
You know I always say in justmy life, you know, learn how to
rest, not quit, and I thinkthat's true also, you know, in
relationships with yourself andothers is just knowing when to
(09:24):
kind of pull back and rest for aminute.
And just I think there's somuch to just taking snapshot
inventories of checking in withothers.
You've taught me that, you'vetaught me the importance of
checking in with others, and tome that's like you're on the
trail head down, you're grindingit out, you got the backpack on
.
It's good to pull over withyour trail mates and just go.
(09:46):
How are you doing?
Do you need anything?
You know, are your, are yoursocks still dry?
You know what's happening?
Um, or just checking in witheach other in relationships so
important.
Speaker 1 (09:59):
I love what you're, what you're laying out there,
because I think that not only isit important for us to check in
on others, but as we'regrinding it out up that trail,
it's super important to go wheream I in this?
Totally, and that then checkingin on somebody else is saying,
okay, where are you in this, andnow where are we as a result,
and how do we navigate that?
(10:20):
And when we're sober minded, wecan have a much greater sense
(10:47):
of where we are, to then makespace or room for where the
other is in it, up that thatsummit or grinding it up that
trail, that I need to be awareof me.
It's like you said I need toknow where my feet are, that's
right.
And then, as I know where I am,I can start to consider wait,
where are you?
Like you're my rucking buddyand I need to make sure that I'm
not on this ruck all by myself,like, wait, where's my ruck?
There you are, like, how areyou?
Are you okay?
(11:08):
Are your socks still dry, likeyou said?
Yeah, so that's a yeah, that'sreally that's great.
Yeah, so what as, as you'reconsidering, like, the advice or
the wisdom that you impart tothese, these amazing women that
are reaching out to you, and I'mI'm imagining that that there
(11:30):
are some of them that are outthere, they're dating, they're
there and maybe even now I needto be careful how I say this but
maybe they're dating in theirrelation, in their marriage.
I don't mean dating otherpeople, I mean dating their
(11:51):
marriage.
I don't mean dating otherpeople, I mean dating their
spouse.
But in that essence of likecoming back to a place where,
like, they're really trying toexplore sober mindedness in this
arena of other people.
Speaker 2 (11:56):
Yeah, Hopefully that question makes sense.
Yeah, it does, Because I cantell you I am almost 30 years
married and I am dating myhusband, so I do know what you
mean and I think it takes.
I think that it takes that kindof engagement in the
relationship.
It is so easy in life to get onautopilot and just cruise
(12:18):
through, just cruise control,put the map away and just kind
of wander around and I think,truly being engaged all in all
present, the good, the bad, theugly, all of it is where it's at
.
You know, I've learned a lot inthese last years, being
(12:40):
sober-minded and takingseriously that.
You know my words matter, mypresence matters and so do other
peoples.
And I think for a while thereI'd minimized my voice,
minimized my presence and I wasnot living sober minded.
And whether that was because Iwas numbed out on a glass of
wine in the evenings orsomething else that took my
(13:03):
presence away, it's so much morethan what, like you said at the
beginning, what it is thattakes your presence away.
In fact, really, alcohol for mewas just a solution, it wasn't
really the problem.
Speaker 1 (13:16):
Right.
Speaker 2 (13:17):
And that's that's a big part of this journey is
realizing that.
Speaker 1 (13:20):
And that is so important because I think that
that is so true as it relates toany coping mechanism we use.
It's the attempt of a solution.
It's not the core of the issue.
Therefore, do we spend the time, the awareness, to be sober
(13:41):
minded, to come back toourselves and evaluate hey,
what's going on here?
So, as people are dating,what's?
Speaker 3 (13:49):
going on here, so as people are dating.
Speaker 1 (13:50):
How does one who wants to be sober minded?
How do they go about this?
I mean cause most people aregoing to say let's meet for
happy hour.
Let's meet for drinks.
Oh yeah, let's go to dinner.
You want to meet at the bar.
So how do you, how do you walkthese ladies through navigating
this?
Speaker 2 (14:06):
For sure, and I do work with a lot of single ladies
and, you know, divorce ladiesthat are getting back out there
and in our very alcohol centricculture it is a let's meet for
drinks society culture and Ithink what people are really
saying when they say let's meetfor drinks is let's connect,
(14:27):
let's connect, let's gettogether, and pretty much
evening time for adults that isusually centered around alcohol.
It's just part of our societyand so I think, knowing that
ahead of time and being able tobe like proactive and say I
would love to connect and thengive some other options or head
(14:49):
to the bar, it could be verytelling for the person that
you're interested in to just seesome of not not to judge them
in any way, shape or form Right,but just out of curiosity you
do, you let them, do them andand see what that feels like.
Speaker 1 (15:04):
How do you I think that's great how do you coach?
How do you coach these ladiesthrough like, okay, I'm going to
go to the bar because I feelstrong enough, let's say to not,
you know, tip a balance into aplace that I don't want to be.
In other words, I'm not goingto.
You know, order a bunch ofdrinks that I'll regret tomorrow
(15:26):
.
So I feel confident in that, andso I go.
How do they?
How do you coach them through?
Or do you coach them throughhow to navigate the wait?
Why aren't you drinking?
Well, don't you want?
What do you?
Speaker 2 (15:39):
say and I love the practicality angle you're going
here because I think that's whatpeople wanna know is what do I
say, what do I do?
And that is one of my resources.
I do have a free guide outthere for women to help them
navigate happy hours, wineo'clock and whatnot.
So I know you'll put those inthe show notes, but I do think
(16:01):
that there are three Ps that Iabsolutely love talking about,
and these are easy to remember.
So if you're driving andlistening, you can actually kind
of file these away in your inyour mind for moments, just like
you're talking about Lee, whereyou're at the bar.
You're going to a girl's nightor a wedding or whatever, and
you don't want to, you don'twant to drink, you want to stay
(16:23):
in your sober mind, literally.
And what do you do?
Well, the first step is predecide literally.
Speaker 1 (16:31):
And what do you do?
Well, the first step ispre-decide.
Okay, pause.
That's brilliant, because whenyou get in there, you're toast
man.
You are If you don't know whatyou don't know, yeah.
That was brilliant.
Speaker 2 (16:41):
So yeah, first step is pre-decide.
You cannot decide once you getthere, if you're at all on the
fence.
Just know this.
Your maybe means yes.
Your maybe means yes becausethe current is so strong.
And if you have been in what Icall the detox to retox loop,
(17:03):
where you're just in a cycle ofmindful by day doing all the
right things, working out, gotgreen juice going, you're buying
all organic, and then in theevenings you're like, and I
think I'll kind of take the edgeoff from the day or celebrate
all my job well done, it's goingto be really easy to go to that
as a default.
Your brain's actually wired todo that if you do it on
(17:26):
repetition.
So if you've got a repetitionof drinking in a social setting
and you go to a social settingwithout pre-deciding before you
get there, consider it just.
I mean, we talked earlier aboutthis adventure and this
expedition consider it verysteep.
It's a very steep climb to walkinto a situation like that,
(17:47):
having not pre-decided.
I love that.
So that's the first one.
The second P is pre-plan.
So, once you've pre-decided, Iwork with a lot of women who are
like, yeah, I'm deciding, butthen I don't know what to do.
Yes, and this is where thepractical part of what I love
talking about comes in.
Pre-planning is taking thatdecision and then executing it
(18:10):
in a way where you know what tosay, you know what to order.
I always at first now I don'teven think twice about it,
because I'm just good a lot oftimes with my water- I don't
even care, Because it's becomeyour loop right.
Speaker 3 (18:22):
It has become my loop .
Speaker 1 (18:23):
It's your muscle, through practice Right.
Speaker 2 (18:24):
Just only through practice, not because you know
well and you can't unknow whatyou know.
And now I've known more aboutthe science behind alcohol, so I
feel more empowered.
Speaker 1 (18:35):
But and there's and I'm going to start to sidetrack
us here for just a half secondyeah, but there's also a
neurological pathway that you're, that you're burning.
That's a really good pathway.
Yeah, for example, I'm in this.
I work out with a group ofpeople.
There's a new person in ourworkout group.
(18:55):
He is an older gentleman who isnot accustomed to working out
and he's not accustomed to thesemovements, and so for him it's
like doing a movement in anabbreviated way, over and over
and over again, and then he's upwith the big boys and he's
doing the movement like he'sbeen doing it forever.
But he had to neurologicallygrow accustomed to what that
(19:19):
movement was.
And from what you're saying, asyou're describing it, it is a
movement and it's a.
It's a, it's like a, it's aneurological, it's a behavior,
and so it's this place ofpre-planning and knowing I'm
good with my water and I don'teven have to think about it it's
become habitual, you'rehabituating it.
Speaker 2 (19:39):
Exactly.
This is great.
Keep going, yeah, yeah.
So when you're new to this andyou don't have that habit loop
yet reformed and you know it canbe nerve wracking, it's really
that awkward moment when you sitdown at a table and everyone's
making their drink orders andyou're like it's part of the
pre-planning.
That is part of the pre-planningis knowing what you're going to
(19:59):
say when you walk in there.
Because when you're, whenyou're, when you are sitting at
a table where pretty mucheveryone unless you know you're
pregnant or sick or whatever,unless there's like an
extenuating circumstance whichis changing.
I am joking somewhat, but notreally it really is changing.
Speaker 1 (20:16):
It is changing.
Speaker 2 (20:17):
And I've been at tables where I'm the only
non-drinker on purpose, bychoice, right, and it is by
choice and I think that's alsovery empowering I can have what
I want to drink when I want todrink it.
I just choose to bealcohol-free because it feels
better to me, it serves mypresence better and my awake and
(20:37):
alert being present in my ownlife.
But a lot of the pre-planningis knowing what you're going to
say.
So, for example, if I were towalk into a party or meet up
with someone and everyone'sordering drinks and a waiter or
waitress or hostess with themostest comes up to me and says,
hey, jen, can I get yousomething to drink?
(20:58):
I put a big, true smile on myface and I say yes, not no.
I say yes, I would love some,and then fill in the blank hey,
maybe you just need some waterbecause you've been running
around all day and you're justneeding to hydrate.
Maybe you're thirsty.
Maybe you have looked ahead andseen if that menu offers
(21:20):
mocktails or zero-proofcocktails, I like to call them.
So maybe you've done a littlebit of recon where you've called
ahead.
Maybe you've gotten there fiveminutes early, swung by, talk to
the bartender and say, hey, I'mnot drinking tonight.
You don't have to make this bigproduction About anything.
It's really no one's businesswhat you're drinking, right, and
(21:43):
you don't have to justify whyyou're not drinking.
But it is okay to takeownership and agency and say I'm
not drinking.
But it is okay to takeownership and agency and say I'm
not drinking tonight.
I love saying that, becausepeople don't know that I'm AKA
sober sis, or that I'm living analcohol-free lifestyle or doing
this work.
They just know I'm not drinkingtonight, and so I can say that
with complete confidence and saybut what else do you have?
(22:04):
Or do you have anything on yourmenu that's alcohol-free?
Speaker 1 (22:07):
I can ask and a lot of times they do.
I love that.
I have a gluten allergy and soevery time most restaurants I
shouldn't say every time mostrestaurants I am going to go
look ahead at their menu,because it's the whole place of
not being the guy that says,wait, well, I have a gluten
allergy and so let's bringattention to that.
Speaker 2 (22:29):
And you're right, it's the exact same thing
Totally.
Speaker 1 (22:30):
In that says wait, well, I have a gluten allergy,
and so let's bring attention tothat.
And you're right, it's theexact same thing, Totally In
that.
It's just yes, I would lovesomething.
What do we have here?
And it's like do you have agluten-free menu?
Or you know, you've some peopleare vegan.
Speaker 2 (22:41):
Some people are alcohol free.
Speaker 1 (22:43):
So do you have a favorite drink that you do?
You have a favorite go-to?
Speaker 2 (22:48):
well, actually I do okay, because better than water.
Better than water, although itis, I shouldn't say better, a
more exciting than waterabsolutely, and this is really
easy for most restaurants andbartenders to crank out, because
it it is a mineral watersparkling water base.
I like topo chico because youknow we're here in texas oh yeah
, big bubbles baby.
(23:09):
Wherever you are.
Yeah, carbonated.
There's something about acarbonated drink that is just
really refreshing.
So whatever kind of basemineral water, sparkling water,
and then it is so easy becausemost restaurants and bars have
cucumbers and for you, ladiesout there, you know what I'm
talking about when you havecucumbers in your water.
(23:36):
what do you think of?
Like a spa day?
Like real refreshing.
It's so refreshing to havecucumber in your water and lime.
So ask them to muddle cucumberand lime with a Topo Chico and
then you can even get superfancy and salt the rim.
It's delicious.
Wow, it's so good.
What it's delicious.
Wow, it's so good that that is,doesn't it make?
You thirsty right now.
Yeah, if y'all could see him.
He's literally salivating.
(23:56):
He's so thirsty.
Speaker 1 (23:59):
Yeah, no, this is so okay.
Speaker 2 (24:01):
Try it next time y'all go out.
Speaker 1 (24:03):
I think I might so good and I've never.
The cool thing about this andthis is what has me totally
fired up.
Yes, it is the lime.
I love lime Me too.
Yes, it is the lime and maybethe cucumber.
I'm a little on the fence aboutthe cucumber, but I get the
fresh part of it.
What has me so fired up is I'venever considered like sprucing
(24:25):
up a Topo Chico in that way.
Speaker 2 (24:28):
Right.
I just don't, and I want it ina pretty glass too, you know
like it's the whole aesthetic,it's the whole thing, which is,
again, I think, why a lot oftimes people are in this social
pattern or this habitual loop.
It's the ritual, it's thereward.
Speaker 1 (24:44):
It really is the ritual.
Speaker 2 (24:46):
And there's nothing wrong with that.
I think it's awesome tocelebrate life that way, whether
that's in your own kitchen atfive o'clock, I encourage women
to still pull out that prettyglass.
Just what are you putting in it?
Be mindful, be intentional.
Speaker 1 (25:07):
I think that's at the heart of the whole thing.
It's being mindful andintentional and you have to
understand you to understand theintention Right.
Speaker 2 (25:18):
Exactly.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
So these ladies that are out dating and they've
chosen this sober-mindedlifestyle and that for them
means sober-minded fromsubstances, alcohol, any wisdom
that you could offer them, andthis is not just for ladies guys
(25:40):
, too, who have decided that asober-minded life is something
very important to them, that asober minded life is something
very important to them, andthey're they're in the dating
scene and they get the bigquestions about it.
Like, why are you not drinking?
Like do you have an addiction?
Like, did you have a problem?
What are some of the thingsthat you coach these ladies
(26:01):
through?
And guys, this, this all cantranslate for you as well.
So, yeah, it's sober sis, butwe can also call it the sober
bro for now.
Speaker 2 (26:08):
Totally Listen up, bros.
No, totally Well, and I dothink it is a confidence that
comes from within.
You've got to know why you'redoing what you're doing and go
back to your why all the time,all the time.
Why do I do the things I do andwhy do I do the things I don't
(26:29):
want to do?
Well, a big part ofsober-minded living is trying to
align by doing the things, thatis you do want to do.
It's less about what are wetaking away, it's what we're
adding in, it's what we'regaining.
Speaker 1 (26:41):
Yes, ma'am, we talk all the time around these
hallways, here, about livingaccording to your values, and
that's exactly what you'resaying.
It sounds like yeah, and soknowing your, why and I love
what you're saying is your whydoes it need to be negative?
Because you had a problem?
Speaker 2 (27:00):
with it Exactly.
Speaker 1 (27:01):
No, because I like.
Like you said, I, I enjoy.
You didn't quite say it likethis, but this is my
interpretation of it is, I enjoymyself far more when I am awake
, alive and alert.
And I know I didn't get all theA's right.
Speaker 2 (27:15):
No, that was good, but it's true.
And too, if you think about it,even in a dating scenario, is
alcohol really connecting?
I would beg to differ.
I would say no.
When you're using any substancethat takes away your presence
of mind, alters your mind,literally your brain.
(27:39):
You are less there, you areless present.
So, if we get together fordrinks or my goodness, in the
dating world, especially if youreally are starting over and and
if you're dating your spouse,but if, if you're not bringing
all of yourself, your authentic,true, imperfect, messy self,
(28:00):
but that part of you which isyou know, I get it Many drinkers
, I think the numbers arestaggering of the number of
people that drink out of socialanxiety.
Speaker 1 (28:10):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (28:11):
Right.
So that's a very real thing andI realize that.
I mean I think most adults,when they enter a networking
event, a party, even you know,even good friends there's still
that opportunity for you as agrown up, as an adult, to enter
in a room and think to yourselfdo I belong, do I fit in, do
(28:34):
they like me?
Do I look okay?
Am I making sense?
All those things.
And I think there's a lot ofenergies that come in a room or
to a, you know, to a tabletop.
When you're meeting someoneone-on-one, you don't know where
that person's coming from orthe day they to a, you know, to
a tabletop.
When you're meeting someoneone-on-one, yes, you don't know
where that person's coming fromor the day they've had or what
the tapes that are playing intheir mind.
So a lot of people subdue allof that by getting that first
(28:57):
drink.
Speaker 1 (28:58):
Yeah, and the interesting thing about this is
people often say to me, you know, in a session they'll say, well
, they said to me this thingwhile they were drunk or they
were under the influence, and sothat you know, that makes them
tell the truth.
I'm like actually it doesn'tRight.
There is this myopic sense ofus focusing on the things that
(29:21):
we walked into that situationwith.
Speaker 2 (29:23):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (29:24):
And what if?
If we're, if we have socialanxiety and to take from what
you're describing, what do theythink of me?
Do I belong here?
Am I okay?
All of these themes where we'retrying, we're assessing our
value are really lack thereof.
We'll become myopically focusedon that and inhibited.
(29:45):
Therefore, we're going to bemore of that.
Meaning not sure we belong andtherefore it's that confirmation
bias Exactly right.
Speaker 2 (29:54):
And that insecurity is going to play louder, well,
and then what happens is alcoholwhispers in my ear.
You need me.
In fact, you wouldn't have beenable to even do as well as you
did if you didn't have me.
In fact, you wouldn't have beenable to even do as well as you
did if you didn't have me.
And then we outsource.
It is an outsourcing of ourresilience and our confidence,
and even some of our identity of.
(30:16):
I can't do that without a drinkin my hand.
Right and the crazy, whichconfirms I'm not enough, I don't
belong, unless I go outside ofmyself to bring something in,
and then that starts a wholenother loop.
Speaker 1 (30:33):
And it's a downward spiral.
Speaker 2 (30:34):
Yeah, it's going to take you places you don't want
to go and take you away fromyour authentic self in your
presence, and I've got to tellyou, as a person now that's
choosing this alcohol-freelifestyle.
I still feel the feels.
When I walk in a room, my heartraces a little bit I can still
kind of flutter, and I know thistoo shall pass very quickly and
(30:56):
very shortly that it's anatural part of being human, and
if I short-circuit that, if Istop that natural adjustment
from happening by alteringreality and bending it for just
a minute, it's not real, it'snot as real I should say.
And so I'd rather live inreality, see what I'm dealing
(31:16):
with, feel the feels that arevery temporary, and then I just
feel stronger, like, oh okay, Idon't have to have something
outside of me to make me feelokay.
Speaker 1 (31:28):
Yeah, yeah, and it's.
It's interesting because that'show we build strength, like
you're.
You're describing is we, wehave this exposure to it and you
know we think about everybodyfeels a sense of something.
It's not abnormal and I, youknow, I and I think I'm
attributing this to the rightperson, but I think Brene Brown,
(31:50):
who I think most people knowshe is, but she, I believe this
is her saying yes, you're scared, but scared and excited are
really close emotions.
Speaker 2 (32:01):
Yes.
Speaker 1 (32:02):
Where they show up in our neurology is very close, so
could we be skided.
Speaker 2 (32:08):
Right Like scared and excited, all at the same time.
Speaker 1 (32:11):
And I think that's a really good point is can I just
go in and work through thesenerves, these jitters and say
yeah, I'm actually reallyexcited.
You know, if you're sittingdown with a new and potentially
a potential new, it's saying I'mreally excited about meeting
them and I hope that they youknow, are they enjoy me?
(32:33):
I hope that they.
But I also want to propose theidea that you're also
interviewing them.
Speaker 2 (32:41):
That's right that it's not just a one way thing.
It's funny.
Speaker 1 (32:45):
One of my mentors was talking with someone who was
applying for a doctoral programand he said to this individual
hey, remember, this isn't yougoing out there trying to make
yourself look enticing.
This is also you in, uh,interviewing them to make sure
(33:08):
they're a good fit.
Yeah, and his, his, his adviceto this person was be you right
out of the gate.
Be you right out of the gatebecause this is a big commitment
, just like a partnership.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (33:22):
And so you want to make sure you're authentic and
you see that they're authentic,because the last thing you want
and I'm saying this from adating position, the last thing
that a person wants is to getinto a partnership with somebody
that they don't fullyunderstand if they're a match
for which brings us to a wholeother topic of how do I know if
(33:43):
I'm a match.
Well, there's some researchersout there that say you're a
match with anyone.
What matters is is do youbelieve that you can put
together the bridge that helpsone person bridge to another?
And that's a whole differentconversation.
But we're not going to knowthat if we're not sober minded
in the way we walk in as us andthat we observe them way we walk
(34:08):
in as us and that we observethem.
Speaker 2 (34:16):
Well, there's something really good, really
awesome, about being authenticand it being allowed to make
mistakes or show up and be alittle awkward or a little silly
yes, even married all theseyears.
My sweet hubby, craig, and Ijust had a moment the other
night where it was like, wow,yeah, 30 years in, we can still
fumble the ball.
But it was real.
(34:37):
It was 100% unmasked posturingor anything.
We just had some awkwardnesstogether at 30 years and we
laughed and we celebrated thatwe still could because we were
so present in the moment.
Speaker 1 (34:56):
Thank you for saying that, because I mean, my wife
and I haven't been togetherquite 30 years, but but close,
and I I have to say that it's.
It is refreshing to know thatwe still have this opportunity
to get to know each other.
(35:16):
It's not static and we aregoing to fumble, we are going to
say dumb things.
There's times when I do thingsand I feel a little tinge of
embarrassment because she saw medo that or trip over that, or
you know, say you know, get mywords back, whatever.
Speaker 2 (35:31):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (35:31):
In knowing that those awkward moments still happen,
that there's not this fantasyout there, right, that we get to
that.
Then everything feels nice andgood, and it just doesn't happen
that way.
Yeah, yeah, that's it justdoesn't happen that way.
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2 (35:47):
That's.
There's a joy.
There's a joy that comes inbeing present, fully present,
and there's there's just more ofof everything.
It's like living life inTechnicolor.
Speaker 1 (36:00):
That is very well said.
It is like living life inTechnicolor.
Speaker 2 (36:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (36:05):
Being present for yourself.
Once we understand who we are,what that begins to unlock.
I mean, sometimes this maysound silly, but sometimes I
feel like there is this I don'tknow this key that we have of
understanding ourselves andlearning to communicate from the
(36:29):
place of you.
Speaker 2 (36:31):
Your Ness.
Speaker 1 (36:32):
That, yes, that unlocks this ability to have a
really cool relationship, and inthat it's like I want to go
shout it from the mountaintopsand show everybody hey, wait,
wait, wait, there's a key here.
It'll unlock everything for you.
It's like.
It's like having access to theforce.
Those of you who are star Warsfans.
Speaker 2 (36:55):
Totally.
I mean when you're, when you'recomfortable in your own skin,
which again is where the work isreally done.
This is an inside job.
It is an inside job Well said,so, when you're real, think
about it.
I mean my closest comrades,that's what I call my real close
friends.
That's a John Townsend termfrom People Fuel great book
(37:15):
about relational nutrients andin that he talks about the seven
Cs and he talks about havingcomrades and I would consider my
comrades just a small handfulof women that are so secure in
who they are that it gives mepermission to be totally who I
am.
That's right.
There's nothing I can say or dothat's going to change who they
(37:38):
are for me.
Speaker 1 (37:40):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (37:41):
They're not going to shape shift and they're not
going to.
They're not going to collapseand crumble.
Um, based on anything I'msaying or doing and I can be my
silly self, my serious self, Ican bring it all and to me those
are the friends that I'm like.
I don't think there's anythingI can say or do that would make
you run.
Say or do that would make yourun, and that's built on our
(38:04):
real moments together.
Speaker 3 (38:06):
Right.
Speaker 2 (38:08):
And I have that with friends who drink alcohol and
with friends who don't drinkalcohol.
Sure Because it's not about thealcohol, because that's not our
common bond, it's our presenceand how we relate to each other
in a present way.
Speaker 1 (38:21):
Yes, because being sober minded isn't about the
alcohol outside of you, right,it's about the sober mindedness
inside of you yes, yeah, andthat's that's good.
I think that there's.
I think that that piece of whatyou just explained is really
important.
In all relationships, there aregoing to be times where you are
in an in an environment that isgoing to erupt something inside
(38:45):
of you, where you take a leftturn when you're pre-planning,
you're pre-deciding, you'repre-planning, you, you wanted to
go right, but you took a left.
And so, yes, we have to beaware of the fact that there's
environments that we have tosteer away from, but those
(39:06):
environments don't define us.
And when we get to a placewhere we have the strength to
pre-plan and pre-pre-preparethis plan, then we have a better
footing underneath us.
And I just want to throw out anaside, and and I I'm I want to
(39:29):
also give you your shot at thistoo If you make a mistake and
you, you turn left when youmeant to turn right, there's
always an opportunity for youturn always.
And the biggest piece in my mindis please don't shame yourself,
because that's like Fight Club,and if you haven't seen the
movie, I'm about to ruin it foryou.
(39:51):
He's fighting himself theentire time.
Don't do that.
Be gentle with you Because,like you said, this is an inside
job.
Be gentle with you because,like you said, this is an inside
job.
So the harder you are on you,the less likely you are to show
up authentic.
Speaker 2 (40:09):
Yeah, and what we tend to do when we make a
mistake or slip up is we firsttake that slip and we make it a
slide.
Yeah, I mean, it is like, ohwell, never mind, I can't do
this.
And so it's easy to takesomething small and let it
snowball into something biggerthan it really needs to be.
(40:29):
What if we looked at a setbackas valuable feedback, and
setbacks can define you in a I'mgoing backwards negative way.
Valuable feedback is like, ohman, I needed that to move
forward, because now Iunderstand more of what I need
and what I want.
And, to your point, isolation,man.
(40:50):
That is where shame is like abreeding ground.
Yeah, it is, as Brene Brown, toquote her again, talks about
how shame in a Petri dish byitself will just metastasize and
grow and get worse.
But you drop empathy in theshame and it can't survive.
And you can't get empathysometimes from you, can get it
from yourself, but if you're ata place where you're really
(41:12):
feeling broken down and and youknow, flawed and all these
things, this is where connectionbecomes critical.
I mean, that's the heart ofwhat I do is bring women out of
the shadows, literally andfiguratively, their own shadows,
their shadow selves, theirshadow sides and the actual
(41:34):
shadows of hiding their mistake,their slip up, their shame.
I did all the things and then Istill didn't execute the right
plan.
At the very end I gave in.
And that's where gettingempathy from others and
identification from others cantotally help you course correct
in a whole new way.
(41:55):
I mean course correction, orthe U-turn, is one of the
pillars of being able to live asober-minded life.
Speaker 1 (42:02):
You know, we always say to parents you have to
connect before you can correct,and I think that's true for
ourselves.
We have to connect back to wait.
Why am I doing this?
What is that?
Go back to the why, I'm doingthis because I want to show up
alive, authentic, awake andaware.
And I know, I'm mixing your A'sup, it's okay.
(42:23):
I'll make you a t-shirt.
Speaker 2 (42:24):
And.
Speaker 3 (42:24):
I will wear it.
Speaker 1 (42:26):
But we have to show up in that sense, and the best
way for us to do that is to knowwho we are, and part of knowing
who we are is knowing what canI learn from that?
Okay, I made a mistake, it's adata point.
Now what do I learn, that's allit is, because what I see often
is when people make mistakes,they want to get away from them.
Right so they, they avoid them,they don't want to talk about
(42:47):
it.
Speaker 2 (42:47):
I don't want to look at suppress Right, ignore.
Speaker 1 (42:50):
But when you look at them you can say oh, I see, I
got stressed, I was dehydrated,I you know I my plan was to
drink one drink and I drank fivebecause I got nervous and I was
thirsty and.
I just zipped that thing downlike it's nobody's business and
you know what?
(43:10):
I blew through my plan.
Okay, well, no shame.
Speaker 2 (43:14):
In fact, in our group we actually we want those
shares.
We're looking for women toshare about their recon, their
data points, their vow.
It's valuable feedback, notonly for the person who feel
like you know they slipped andfell, but it's valuable for
everybody else in the communityaround them because we all get
it, we all type one, understandthere's a common humanity going
(43:38):
on here, without question.
Where it's like I can have, Iwould have compassion for you.
Why can't I have compassion formyself?
And then, when you have thiswhole atmosphere of compassion
and acceptance again not licenseor like oh, yeah, you do you.
but we're working with women,who I am, who want to level up,
who want to be their best self,and so it's all for one, one for
(44:01):
all, in that way, and yeah,it's like okay, I mean, if
you're running a marathon,you're not going to fall down on
mile 17 because you trippedover a rock or shoelace, came
untied or whatever happens in amarathon that would make someone
literally fall down.
You're not going to go back tothe starting line.
There's nobody there.
That's right.
(44:21):
The race isn't going that way.
Nobody's race is going that way.
That would be like to me, a dayone, like a racing, the 17
miles that you ran in a marathonto go back to the starting line
.
It's like someone trying topractice a new lifestyle and
going back to a day one becausethey messed up on day 68 or six
years or whatever it is.
(44:42):
You didn't lose all those daysor all those miles that you ran
or were on this track expeditionadventure.
They're all still there.
So just use it as a data pointand keep going.
That's exactly growing.
I mean that's.
That's what it's all about.
Speaker 1 (44:58):
That's right.
I often say you're it's.
Life is like a bike race.
You're going to fall, and whenyou?
Do expect it almost like you doexpect it.
Speaker 3 (45:08):
It's like.
Speaker 1 (45:08):
It's like mountain bikers, it's not if I'm going to
.
If I'm going to crash, it'swhen I.
And how do we minimize it?
Yeah Right, and so there's.
There's a place for us to bemindful even about that and it's
funny that you use the marathonanalogy.
I was thinking as you weredescribing this you know, I I
(45:33):
used to be an avid runner and Idon't like to fall down.
I don't know anybody who does,but I especially don't don't.
And I was running along on thissidewalk and my toe grazed the
side like a lip on the sidewalkand the concrete and I just went
face first.
(45:53):
I didn't have time to get myarms up and literally fell
straight on my cheek and Ithought I'm not going to stop
running.
Speaker 2 (46:01):
Right.
Speaker 1 (46:02):
I'm going to get up, I'm going to dust off and I'm
going to jog back.
And as I was jogging back, Iwas like why did I fall?
Oh, there was a, there was a, a, a, a raised part of the
sidewalk that I just didn'tnotice.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
Okay.
Speaker 1 (46:17):
So you know what I started doing, and this is maybe
a little extreme and maybe somepeople will think it's silly I
started running on the side ofthe road instead of the sidewalk
.
I know, I know there's carsthere, but that's what I felt
comfortable with.
Speaker 2 (46:29):
Yeah, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:30):
And so it was a.
It was a.
It was a navigation ofunderstanding.
If I'm running on a sidewalkthat has a lot of of cracks and
elevation changes that happenreally fast, then my solution
was not to quit running, it wasto just find a different surface
to run on.
Yeah, you adapted, that'sexactly right.
Speaker 2 (46:45):
To what you needed to do to enjoy the run.
Yes, you know.
Speaker 3 (46:49):
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (46:50):
And I do see that with our community, with women
who realize wait a minute.
First off, who am I runningwith?
Right, if I fall down andthere's someone there to help me
pick up, you know, stand up.
That's a lot different thanrunning by yourself in the dark
with a headlamp.
Speaker 1 (47:06):
Yes, and somebody who's going to call me the next
morning and say how are?
You feeling You're ready to getback out there?
Let's keep going.
Are we going to meet at ournormal time?
That's the beauty of acommunity and that's the thing
that I think is so importantthat we you know.
This is why I so appreciate youbeing here today is because
(47:26):
here we are talking about sobermindedness as it relates to
dating and relationships and howwe navigate all of this
together.
And where do you start?
You start with you.
Speaker 2 (47:39):
That's right.
Speaker 1 (47:40):
Awake, alive, alert and awesome for your adventure.
There's another A.
Speaker 2 (47:47):
That's right Awake, alert, aware and present in your
own life.
Speaker 1 (47:52):
There it is, I love that one For your big adventure.
Speaker 2 (47:54):
For the adventure.
Speaker 1 (47:55):
And I just I so appreciate you being here again
and talking us through yoursober-minded adventure and just
sharing that with the world.
It's such a blessing, such ablessing of what you're sharing,
such a blessing to know thatthis, that you as such a
wonderful resource out here forso many women, just thank you,
(48:17):
Thank you for taking thatvulnerable step, Thank you for
offering that to to your tribe,to our tribe, to our listeners,
Like it is so meaningful, soimpactful and it's so wonderful
to have a trustworthy source toknow where we're starting is
with ourselves on the soberminded journey, awake, alive,
alert, aware at big adventureand present.
(48:39):
So please tell our listenerswhere they can find you.
Speaker 2 (48:42):
Sure, well, they can go to my hub, which is
SoberSiscom, and this is bignews.
Sobersis, we just moved intothe nonprofit space, so now
we've got an ability to extendour reach to more and more women
.
So there are ways that, ifsober-minded living is something
(49:04):
that excites you but the actualchallenge or struggle with
alcohol is not your thing, butyou want to get on board Helping
women get out of that detoxretox loop or get more
confidence or get to these tools.
That's our initiative.
That's what we're trying to dois get my free guide in the
hands of one million women by2026.
(49:26):
I love that.
So I'm inviting women in thetribe, outside the tribe anyone
listening?
This is actually a movement,and so I invite more to join us
because it is making adifference.
Speaker 1 (49:37):
Yes, it is Awesome.
All right, yeah, thank you somuch, jen.
Speaker 2 (49:42):
You're welcome.
Speaker 3 (49:43):
If you found value in our discussion and Awesome, all
right.
Thank you so much, jen.
You're welcome.
Your journey to understandingand embracing mental health is
just beginning and we're excitedto have you with us every step
(50:05):
of the way.
Until next time, keep exploring, keep growing and remember to
celebrate restored freedom asyou uncover it.
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