September 9, 2025 • 48 mins
In this episode of Restoration Beyond the Couch, Dr. Lee Long sits down with Jason and Rhonda Halbert to talk about their personal experiences with mental health and how those struggles inspired their book, The Caretaker. They share their story of resilience and how their creative journey has become a way to encourage others facing similar battles.
📖 Check out The Caretaker: Book One of The Goodpasture Chronicles on Amazon here: The Caretaker
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Episode Transcript
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Speaker 1 (00:01):
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long and today I'mjoined once again by Jason and
Rhonda Halbert.
Together they wrote Caretaker,the first book in the Good
Pasture Chronicles, under thepen name RJ Halbert.
This series grew out of theircreativity and became a way to
(00:23):
process trauma throughstorytelling.
Caretaker blends history,mystery and some therapy into a
powerful read and the audiobookman.
It delivers a true cinematicexperience.
I highly recommend it.
In today's conversation we'llexplore the struggles they've
faced and the lessons thatthey've learned, and how their
(00:46):
story has become a message ofhope and restoration for others.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here, because we've
walked a lot of miles togetherin a lot of different ways and I
don't know.
I mean it's like you guys gofrom a career in music to a
best-selling book.
I mean like wrap your headaround that like a best-selling
(01:08):
book.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I don't know that we've slowed down enough to
think about it.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
We haven't wrapped.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It hasn't been wrapped around our heads.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
yet there's no head wrapping around it.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
There's no head wrapping.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, the title of the book Caretaker, and that's
the first in a trilogy of theGood Pasture Chronicles and I
look at it as like a movement.
It's like the Good PastureChronicles movement I like that
I do like that.
(01:37):
Right, so you guys did a postrecently on maybe Instagram or
one of the socials and you askedthe question.
Jason, like okay, the title ofour book is Caretaker.
The reason we named itCaretaker is take it away, do
you remember?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I don't remember what I said I do.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
You said you know Rhonda was the caretaker for her
mother.
Yep, through her, like, usheredher into heaven.
You were the caretaker for yourmother, ushered her into heaven
.
And it's like what doescaretaker mean to you?
And I was like what a great.
(02:18):
I love that question.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
The book didn't start off in that aspect.
The book, initially the story,is about this house.
The house is actually the maincharacter of the book and we had
a caretaker of the house.
And as this house in this bookis something very special, more
(02:45):
special than the readers of thefamily knows, and we know what
it's as parents.
We know what it's like to bestewards of our children,
caretakers of them.
It was a new experience Rhondawent through it first, being a
caretaker for her mother, but itreally is.
It's a stewardship of somethingprecious.
And so somehow all those layerscame in together and we started
(03:07):
reading our own story.
We'd already written.
That's what made me ask thequestion is is what does
caretaker mean to you?
Because we actually wrote it inone aspect and then it turned
into something else yeah,discovering the different layers
of that word, that was fun whatwere the wrinkles that you guys
have seen from that?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Like, in what way In?
Speaker 1 (03:26):
any way.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I'm sorry, this is what happens, it's all good.
Um, so I think as we wrote thestory uh, it just started
(03:52):
opening up.
We were in such a heavy spot inour lives and we didn't know
what else to do.
Um, to face every single daywith the heaviness of processing
taking care of my mother andprocessing the loss of our home
and taking care of what doesthat rebuild look like?
And that word caretaker justunfolds, it opens up Pandora's
(04:16):
box, basically.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It really does.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It does, and I don't think we knew that.
I think we were inspired by theword because of the journey
that we were on personally.
But the book itself, man Idon't know how to describe it
because it just sounds so cheesyit started to develop itself
and the more we wrote, the morethe meanings just kept going
(04:41):
deeper and deeper and deeper.
And, man, in the process ofwriting, I found a lot of
healing in that journey oftaking care of my mother and
taking care of rebuilding ourhome and taking care of
ourselves, learning how to takecare of myself.
I don't think I knew how to dothat.
Think I knew how to do that,and writing the book has become
(05:10):
this lesson for me ofunderstanding what caretaker
actually means.
On again, it's just so manylevels I don't even know how to
go there.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So I love what you said about learning to take care
of yourself.
Because when I saw your post,what hit me?
Cause?
I was like, oh, I want to play.
And I was like what's my answerto that?
And I thought for a bit youknow what is caretaker, what
does that look like?
And you know, I've read thebook a few times.
Listen to the audio book, we'llget to that.
(05:36):
It's phenomenal.
But the thing that struck me asI stepped back and really just
let the word sit was exactlywhat you just said Caretaker.
It's like, do we know how tocaretake us?
Do we know how to take care ofthe thing, the thing that we've
been gifted, which is ourselves?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I think at the time we didn't.
We didn't know how.
We run 110 miles a minute andour, our lifestyle calls for it,
and it's more than a culturalthing, even though I know
americans in general, we have avery busy lifestyle compared to
(06:18):
other countries.
But then you throw in theentertainment business and that
one's like it's jacked up on 11.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And it's Nice final tap reference there.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, and it's one of those things where, like to
keep up, you just have to keepgoing.
And we, just in our younger days, when we set the groundwork for
our lives, we had the energyand we had the capacity and the
understanding of, well, we'lljust do this and we'll just do
(06:50):
this, and we'll just do this andwe could do it.
And then now we're getting laterin our lives and then disaster
happening to us and realizing,oh wait, you can't sustain that,
it's not forever.
It's very detrimental actuallywhat we've done to ourselves and
we're having to unpack a lot ofthat and figure out what that
looks like to take care of us,so we can take care of each
(07:13):
other, so we can take care ofour family, so we can take care
of our property, so we can takecare of our future.
And I think that that's beenthe deep lesson.
On top of all of that, what thestory Caretaker talks about is
taking care of the future, andfor us, this book actually is
talking about generations, andwhat we're doing now is going to
(07:36):
affect our future and what wewant to do is to take care of it
so that it has longevity and itleaves an impact beyond us.
I've never had that feeling orthat desire to want to leave an
eternal impact.
That's actually never been athought in my mind.
I just thought, well, I'm herewith this life, I'll do the best
(07:57):
that I can, and then we go onto the next life.
And now that I'm just gettingolder in life, I'm like, oh, I
want to leave something for mykids, something of myself, not
money, not property, somethingof myself.
I want to leave something formy grandkids.
I want them to know who I was,and I didn't actually know my
(08:19):
grandparents that well.
I wish I did.
I knew them some.
I wish I would have known thembetter.
And I would like for the thirdgeneration, the fourth
generation, to have littleglimpses of who we are as people
and the stories that we tell.
And I want it to bring life andI want it to be a gift to the
(08:39):
future.
So I think that's even anotherdefinition of caretaker.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
So I think that's even another definition of
caretaker.
I love that.
I think that you look back atthe things that you guys went
through from 2020 on and it'slike one loss after the next.
Just a random bullet taking anephew, a cancer, dementia,
(09:09):
covid, then I guess would it befair to say that the final blow
was the flood.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I think the flood of our home was the final blow
because, aside from my nephewbeing shot, most of the things
we experienced are things thateverybody would experience at
some point in their life.
We're not unique and traumahits everybody in many different
ways.
I think the number andintensity in a short amount of
time stacked up really quicklyand our home was our safe place.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
This was our forever home.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
This was at the very least we'd come together into
this place.
And it even became more of thatspace during COVID Because, as
we all were taken away from workand family and community, our
home became even more of a place.
It had already been a place ofhealing for our daughter through
cancer.
It's been a place of communityand it holds all your memories.
(10:03):
It holds the things that keepyou going when trauma hits your
life Right.
So when that was destroyed andI'm saying destroyed, unlivable,
uninhabitable it wasn't thefinancial impact because we
could work hard again, we couldrebuild on our own.
We can buckle down and do it.
It's what it wiped outemotionally for us.
(10:24):
Know we can buckle down and doit.
It's it's what it wiped outemotionally for us.
And it took away a place ofsafe haven during already very
difficult time.
Um, and I remember talking toyou early on we I think we've
already discussed how we cameabout writing this book, and
this book sounds so heavy, likeif I was, if I was tuning into
restoration beyond the couch,which I do and it'd be like wait
a minute.
Why are we talking about a book?
(10:44):
And for us, we, we took this inthis creative outlet.
At first, I remember discussingthis with you a long time ago,
saying I feel like I'm almostcopping out like this this,
surely this is unhealthy.
Right, I'm creating this, we'recreating this fantasy world so
(11:05):
we don't have to deal in ourreality.
Right, and to be honest, afteryears of every morning on the
way to work, on the way home,talking about the update with
your mother, then my mother,then my sister, and then at some
point, to be able to talk aboutthese other people, these other
characters that didn't existand build and dream together, to
actually give birth tosomething in the midst of so
(11:26):
much death, became such a placeof peace and joy for us.
Right, and I was a little bitworried about am I creating this
compartment of non-reality toexist in?
Right here, and we'vediscovered over time that for us
, it was actually.
What the book taught us is wewere actually processing trauma
during that.
That's exactly right.
We were taking instead ofputting on each other.
(11:48):
Here's how I feel, here's howyou feel.
Here's what does that mean?
Well, we, literally we put themonto these poor characters, and
we're not writers.
I'm a songwriter and I'm acreator and ronda's a creator in
different ways, but writing thewritten word has never been our
thing.
I remember hearing interviewsabout authors saying these
characters took on their ownlife.
Ours did, and I know thatsounds really cheesy I'm rolling
(12:11):
my eyes with you as I hearpeople say that.
But they did.
We set them up with some of ourtruths and then the story
developed this thing and ittaught us during that time, and
so that's.
I have no idea what thequestion was, but that's my
answer to it.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I love the answer, but I think that there's a
really special place there, forit's funny when I learned or
when I was.
When I'm around otherprofessionals in this field and
they say, yeah, well, we'regoing to use wet therapy, and
I'm like, oh, I don't like theway that sounds.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I've never heard of it.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It's called written exposure therapy and people
write out their traumas.
And that's exactly when wetalked.
It was like, yes, we usemetaphors in DBT because that's
what helps people.
It's an experience and givingpeople an experience that can
help drive home a differentpathway.
(13:11):
I mean, you're not only did youprovide a pathway to walk
through your things.
I will say that, since the bookhas been out for gosh a year now
, more than a year that whatI've seen it do in my practice
is that it's taken people who'vebeen walking through their
tragedies and traumas and it'sgiven them the inspiration to
(13:35):
one face them.
It's given them the inspirationto one face them that there was
.
There were some people who saidI've never talked about this
with anybody, but there weresome themes in caretaker that
really helped unearth for methings that I've kept hidden for
a very long time, and I thinkit's time to bring it to the
light.
And so it's already impactingpeople in the mental health
(13:57):
space, right, and yeah, it'stime to bring it to the light.
And so it's already impactingpeople in the mental health
space, right, and yeah, it's afiction.
I love your description of itit's some history, some mystery
and a little bit of therapy.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yes, I mean, I can honestly say, without us even
having known the skills thatyou're talking about and the
education that you gatheredthroughout your career, not
having any of that.
(14:27):
It truly was healing for us andwe're still walking lots of it
out as well.
But it gave us a starting point, because we were both so buried
by our grief and I can't evensay that word grief without
feeling that lump come up in mythroat.
It was dark days and now we'reable to laugh and talk about it.
But I think the way we gotthere was because we wrote
(14:49):
something that brought us lifeand it brought us freedom and it
brought us hope, not knowing itwould take us there.
It was just like Jason said.
It was just an outlet to getout of our heads, to get out of
our pain and to be able to dreamand then be able to do it
together, because a lot of timeswe can say, okay, well, that's
(15:12):
the way you're going to processand this is the way I'm going to
process, and then somehow thatactually can drive sometimes a
little bit of a division because, we're not seeing the same way,
but, man, I'm so thankful thatthis drove us closer together.
It was definitely hard, but Ithink we're starting to see that
(15:33):
we actually just said it toeach other today.
Oh my gosh, we're a really goodteam.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
We said that and it's like yeah, we were like oil and
vinegar, those don't mix.
I'm like, yeah, but they tastegreat together.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You just have to shake them Well, that's what I
said, I go.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
you have to macerate those.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
What has it been like with you guys working together?
I mean because you're right,typically in grief, in trauma,
that does tend to pull a coupleapart, because not everybody
grieves the same and nor shouldthey, right.
And so how has that beenworking together as a married
couple?
It's been a journey.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I love that.
It's been fantastic journey.
I love that it's been fantastic.
I don't know, and we'veactually this has been a
catalyst, probably more thananything else.
We've had some other couples inthe industry and I've thought a
long time about working with myspouse and what is that like?
And because there is a stigmaagainst it professionally,
because working with your spouse, at least in our industry, um,
(16:41):
and then it's, it's hard.
It's hard enough decidingwhat's for dinner.
Get along with your future isfor.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
What's crazy is we can't decide on what's for
dinner, but we can decide andactually work together on the
ending for book two, Like that's.
That's crazy.
I don't know how that's working.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But for us it's been a mutual respect for each
other's skill sets.
We're very, very differentpeople, as most couples are.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
And I have Elaine that I operate very freely in
and too freely in, and sheoperates in a lane that she
operates very freely and toofreely in, and so we do like
this, like bumper cars, andsomehow it smoothed out into
this lovely routine of notretaining the bad way but just
the yeah, we're operating.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
We understand each other now.
Now, this is 32 years ofmarriage and 35 years of being
together, um, and so I don'tknow what that would be like if
we were younger, but, um, yeah,we understand each other's
strengths now.
And, and there's like workingwith Jason is phenomenal.
All I need is him in the room.
I will get writer's block or Iwill get stomped, or I will be,
(17:43):
you know, uninspired and I'mjust like I can't do it today.
Jason comes in the room and I'mlike, oh, okay, I got you.
Okay, I can do this, you know.
And he's such a hugeinspiration because he comes in
with these huge ideas, right,and somebody in our life gave us
this phrase of he's the wow andI'm the how.
And that's what I love is hecan come in and blow the doors
(18:06):
off with his big dreams.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And then I get instantly exhausted because I
come up with this wild thing.
We can start and by the end ofit you know we're throughout the
known universe.
And then I go in the instantdepression.
This is beautiful, like howcould I ever possibly achieve
that?
How and that's where rondasteps in, she's, she can take
the next piece and take the timeand go with it.
And so there's a there's alittle there's.
(18:30):
In any venture, any business.
You're gonna have to partnerwith somebody, right, and it's
gonna require trust andvulnerability, even if it's on a
business level, right.
So why not have that trust andvulnerability that's already
built in and we're able to helpeach other on the same goal.
So for us, it's been abeautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
I think it's incredible and the financial
splits are great 100, 100.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I think that's beautiful because you guys, like
you're saying, you guys are aninspiration to each other and
for each other and that, walkingthrough this, it sounds like to
me it's something that has beena real cohesive and drawing you
guys together even more at thisstage of three decades into
your marriage Again.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I think you know it's like this is a healing process
for you, and maybe noteverybody's in a position to be
in business with their partner,their spouse, together.
But, um, you know, you don't.
You're not married 32 yearswithout some couples therapy of
some sort.
So, yes, we've been throughmany different forms of couples
therapy and a lot of times somepeople record, you know we're at
the heights of something.
It's like it's just good totake a timeout.
I'm not good with a timeout,like what do we do?
(19:39):
This has kind of become almosta timeout.
It's like we're going to getback to this.
We're going to focus, likewe're able to put marriage
things aside for a moment towork on something we love
together.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
It's become neutral territory yes, time out yeah,
care about it.
So it's neutral enough to where, even when we might not be at a
good place with each other,this is this project.
This story is so precious to usthat we're both handling that
carefully, and because we dothat, it brings us into this
neutral zone of okay, well, wecan still do this, because this
(20:12):
means this much to us and wewant to see it to the end.
So that actually has been likethe safety zone, I guess, for us
.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I think that's really an incredible thing that you
guys have done in this right,because I think those listening.
I hope that what we're alllearning from you guys is it's
like we have to be creative infinding how we relate to each
other.
After three decades Right,especially when you've gone
through all the things crammedinto.
(20:44):
I mean my gosh when you talkabout packing something in.
You guys have packed in a lotof hurt, a lot of trauma, a lot
of loss, a lot of really hardthings all into one timeframe,
very small timeframe, and,rather than it tearing you apart
, it's like, okay, what's uniqueto us?
First of all, how do we figureout how to process this thing?
(21:04):
Second of all, how do we useour creativity?
Because both of you have alwaysboth been very creative and
love productions, and so how doI take this creativity?
How do I fight to be with youand in that, in that center
space, it's like you're creatingsomething beautiful that's not
(21:26):
only for you, but there's it'sfor everybody else.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, I think, just so that we're also not painting
this perfect picture.
Sure, yeah, we were hurting sobadly that we didn't know how to
reach each other, and we endedup going to get a brain therapy
because our brains were sotraumatized that we were both in
(21:52):
fight or flight mode, and whenwe're both in fight or flight,
we're fleeing from each other.
So there was a season at thebeginning of this where it
wasn't so rosy and we didn'thave the answers, but in the
core of who we are, we knew thatI love you, you love me.
So there's this journey thatwe're doing this together.
(22:14):
So how can we get there?
And so we were grasping andreaching you know, like, what
can we do?
And we're asking for help, andwe're asking for assistance.
And so we had multiple avenuesthat we reached out to,
ultimately getting us to theplace, to where we weren't in
fight or flight, we could calmdown, see each other in each
(22:37):
other's pain, and then thiscreativity started to come on
its own and it gave us an outlet.
And then that's what drew uscloser together instead of
pulling us apart.
But the beginning, like I hopeanybody who's listening doesn't
think that we made all thesegreat decisions from the
beginning, because that's nothow life goes.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Right, it's a lengthy process, no matter what.
What I love about what you'resaying is that here's the
caretaker theme again is that Ihad to learn how to take care of
me.
Yes, I wanted to take care ofyou, not in a codependent way so
much, but I want to be able tocare for you, and it's like that
came together and createdsomething really beautiful.
That's why I think it's amovement.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
The thing about caretakers.
We originally the book ismorphed in a good way, a series,
I mean.
We sat down like the first timewe spoke to you.
We're like we have this wholething mapped out.
This is how it starts, this ishow it ends, and that is true.
And we wrote I'm layingtogether a thought there, good
(23:45):
edit point for your edit righthere.
I might skip on there, but Ihad a really good one.
I left a button Come back.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
It left me.
That's why it's a movement.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yes, the idea when we wrote Caretaker.
The book has morphed, but whenthe first idea, I was actually
looking for a caretaker, likeyou're, in that the trauma
happens so fast back to back,things would happen where this
would happen.
I need to process that.
But now Rhonda's taking care ofher mom, now Rhonda's a
(24:17):
caretaker.
Now something happens Her mom'sjust passed away.
Not even time to process that.
So the rapid fire of all thathit, yeah, and it wasn't even
conscious.
And then, as we wrote this book, I realized we did a.
It wasn't a lie, but I've donemany national interviews at this
point where I've said this bookis not based on our lives, that
we informed it.
I think, looking back, we wroteso much for ourselves.
(24:40):
The characters are not based onour literal things, but we
wrote our pain into that and theonly reason I know that now is
because we weren't processingthe trauma.
Now, as we're working on thebook and continuing it, now
we're actually there's scenesthat come up and with the audio
book that I realize, oh, Iactually never even processed
that.
I'm weeping and regrievingthings again that we weren't
(25:03):
able to.
So the book is now speaking usback, and so the caretaker,
through many conversations withtherapists and people that are
important in our lives.
It's so trite, but when theairplane goes down, oxygen masks
first.
And something we've learnedthrough caretakers the best way
to be a caretaker is to takecare of yourself, which in some
(25:23):
upbringings can feel veryselfish and both of us are
realizing this journey, that wehad not been taking care of
ourselves and had to let go ofthat for a second, and so the
the idea of caretaker, even forus, has morphed, and that has
even informed.
What's funny is we haven't hadto change the story.
The story was already there.
There's things that are goingto happen with the caretaker
that unpack all that.
And this all sounds so heavy.
(25:44):
It's really a fun book we'retalking like.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
It is a really fun book.
You know the first one iscaretaker then comes servant and
then last is architect, and youthink about those three titles
and how much significancecaretaker has.
And how much significancecaretaker has when you named all
three, where there is is.
Is each book crafted around theessence of what that word means
(26:09):
?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yes, and it's multi-layered, and so it's hard
to talk about it in a sense, butjust like we've unpacked
caretaker has several layers andmeanings for people.
Sure, so does servant, and Ithink that, um, the idea of
servant, of servant, while ithas negative connotations, it's
almost being enslaved and beingindebted, it's a hierarchy.
But, then there's servant as inserving, which is a byproduct
(26:34):
of being a caretaker.
So, yeah, that's all verypurposeful and written into it.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, when you break down the three names, like go
even further into architect, sothat in itself you're carefully
designing something You'recreating and because you've
become the creator, it'sprecious to you and now you care
for it.
So there's just so many layersof what's about to come.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Which is the Ouroboros.
Our symbology is all very….
Which is the Ouroboros?
Our symbology is all very whichis the cover of the book.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yes, it's an ancient symbol of infinity that things
happen in cycles.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
And repeat.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
So for us, without giving away a lot of spoilers,
it's really exciting for us.
But a caretaker into servantand architect into caretaker is
just a never-ending cycle andwe're cycle and some fun places
with that.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I love that, talking about fun places, you guys put
together an audio book, which ismy favorite because I love to
consume information and I loveto consume it in an audible way.
Um, tell us about that, because, coming from a guy who never
listened to audio books, did youlisten to audio books?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
You weren't an audio book reader, not an audio
listener.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Okay, I mean we brought it.
I grew up together and, um,from a young age and in more
ways than one, and we wereinvolved uh, involved in our
music department, at church andall the dramas and everything.
And I had a mentor growing up.
Don stayed and if, if we neededa 15 minute production with
like one main character, I gotyou two hours 37 characters.
(28:15):
That has seeped into my dna andit's, it's carried through like,
I think, the first time rondawatched um.
I think maybe eight or so yearsago I I produced and wrote the
opening for the Billboard MusicAwards and she thought okay,
hold on a second.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
That is one of my favorite ever.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
It's mine too, they asked for a three-minute song
and we worked in 42 songs inthose three minutes and ta-da, I
mean we had like every that's adirect lineage of Dawn Stabe
and the production.
So I say all that to say thatthat's just inherent in who I am
, and so definitely the wow, yes, See.
(28:53):
So it was a surprise I we didnot only do we write a book,
which was a surprise the gettingit out there as independent
authors, and there's a wholereason why we decided to go
independent with this book.
That achievement, you feel likewe did it.
We can rest now.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Let's go on vacation Woohoo we did it?
Yes, and then somebody's like.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Well, where's the audiobook?
I'm like the audiobook.
Apparently, that's a big deal.
We do our research over 50something percent of people,
yeah, so I've never listened toan audiobook, so I'm like okay
audiobook.
so I'll go listen to anaudiobook and the first one I
listened.
I've since learned there aremany multicast audiobooks, but I
listened to three books I knew,and it was one narrator reading
it and instantly I'm like, well, that does not match the voice
(29:36):
in my head and you know, thevoice reading for different
characters didn't work for me.
So so I'm like, well, what ifwe do this?
I gave this to Rhonda, thiswhole thing, like I want sound
effects, I want music, I wanteach person to be a different
voice and a different castmember.
And the first time she went tohow, like, how am I even going
to do that?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
What she shifted from how to what I'm like.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
I got this.
I record and produce music andvocals for a living.
I got this.
How hard can it be so skippinga lot of things we actually
wrote together.
We wrote a dream list of actorsand voices that weren't
necessarily tied to thecharacters but, just like the
(30:21):
book, we were characters thatwere actors that were important
in our lives.
They evoked an emotion thatleft an imprint on us that felt
like the same imprint ofsomething in the story.
They all said yes, which wasamazing.
We ended up recording them all.
Um, and then the editingprocess happened.
Yeah, it's like.
You know my little three and ahalf minute songs that I've
produced over the years.
This is like 15 000 of those.
I mean, it's 15 days of audiotimes, 12 actors and there's
(30:44):
some math formula here.
But you know, if you have henryand cusick, amy grant, kelly
clarkson, michael shanks, ericavari, all giving you five lines
each, and then, well, this lineworks with this one, but now
this one, and it's all of asudden, there's a hundred
million permutations,permutations, permutations.
(31:05):
Yeah, so I'll say it took us ayear to finish the audiobook.
It was a labor of love andwe're extremely excited about it
and thrilled about it.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
For those audiobook listeners we feel the love.
I'm glad it's full with a scoregetting all the characters and
my favorite were the soundeffects.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Mine too, you know the wind, we actually hired a
Foley guy from Hollywood to dothat, and it was absolutely
worth it.
It made the story come evenmore alive than how it was in my
own mind.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
There were scenes we wrote from our own experiences
that we'd written, we'd read,we've talked about.
We heard the narration as soonas the sound effects came in.
It immersed us in that.
It was like you're nine yearsold all again, you're in that
spot.
Absolutely.
The power of those sensesreally enhanced the story and
added a weight to it thatsurprised even us.
Really enhanced the story andadded a weight to it that
surprised even us.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I think what also surprised me was we wrote the
story from a certain point ofview, but these actors don't
have our point of view.
Yes, so, as they're trying outdelivering a line in a certain
way, which is what Jason wasreferencing.
Like we would get five versionsof one sentence.
It was so fascinating to hearit was coming from their
(32:24):
perspective and theirexperiences and their point of
view and you would just knowwhen they hit the right line and
you'd go oh, I never thought ofit like that and we wrote it.
That was fascinating to me andit just goes to show you that
everybody's experiences changeseverybody's view and there just
(32:45):
needs to be more grace in thisworld for that.
There really does, because wethink we are so single-minded.
And you must understand whatI'm saying, don't you understand
?
Speaker 3 (32:54):
where I've come from, all the central characters are
all in movies and stories Right.
Everything filters through that.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
But recording that just opened up a whole nother
experience of going.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Oh, there's a lot more experiences out here and a
lot more voices and they've atthe time, but we got through it
and I'm glad we did it and nowwe've got all the actors going
when are we recording book two?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
And Jason's like oh, you got to have book two
recorded, it's been a journey.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
It's been a journey.
Okay, you guys have owned threedifferent homes, right, and in
each one of those there's beensome crazy stories and tales,
one of which we we somewhatexperienced a minor piece of
this, in that we had some beesthat that hived or nested, or
whatever bees do, because theyhived in our like on a an Eve in
(34:01):
our house.
They didn't make it in, but youguys were less fortunate and so
you found I mean, how many beeswere in your house in Cali?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
They told us about 40,000 bees were in our house.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I mean that's like a whole honey factory.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It was a dark cloud.
You know the cartoon when wewere kids you'd watch Bugs Bunny
and they would show a cloud, ablack cloud, flying together
like that, like bees.
That happened inside my house,not outside, it happened inside.
And so I went to the kitchen, Ithink, just to get some water,
food, whatever, and we were in.
(34:40):
There was a living room, akitchen and then like a formal
living room, so the kitchendivided that we were hanging out
in the back room.
I go to the kitchen and I justhear this low hum.
I'm like what did the kidsleave on?
And so I'm following the humand I go into the formal living
room and on the far end of thewindows which that far wall was,
(35:01):
all windows was just beeseverywhere.
It was inside.
It was so loud I freaked outand I'm allergic to bees.
So I grabbed the two tinychihuahuas and the kids and I'm
like come on, kids, we're goingout the side door.
And so we go outside and standin the front yard.
I call some bee guy and hecomes out and we're all standing
(35:25):
in the yard because I'm notgoing anywhere near that house,
and he gets out of his car andthe house is behind me, I'm
facing the street and as he getsout of the car I think he's
looking at me.
But then I'm noticing he's notlooking at me.
He's looking above me and I'mlike what is he looking at?
And I turn around.
And that's when we saw anothermovement in the sky coming and
(35:50):
it scared him and he was the Bguy.
He was like oh my gosh.
And I'm like what do I do?
And he's like there's nothingyou can do and so just run.
Yeah, I mean, he was just likejust, you know, don't go near
the house.
So he suits up and he gets agiant smoker and he smokes them
(36:11):
out.
I didn't want dead bees all inthe house.
We just wanted them gone, Right.
So he smoked them out and ittook some time and we there were
other parts of the house thatwe could get to without feeling
like we were going to beattacked by the bees.
So we were able to go backinside, but it took some time.
But basically he said, yeah,the queen decided to move in and
it was an old house we love oldhouses and so she found an
opening and it went through tothe inside of the house instead
(36:34):
of just in the heaves and soyeah, so that was our experience
of live bees and in that samehouse we were remodeling so we
were tearing down a bunch ofwalls.
And we go to our daughter's roomand we noticed this stain, like
an odd stain on the wall, andwe're just, this house was so
(36:57):
old and so scary and there wasthere's like a whole another
long story that we could write abook about that.
There was an actual murderscene in the house and we
actually had homicideinvestigated and it's an open
case.
So there's that story.
So, as that is going on, we seethis stain on the wall.
It's looking like it's dripping.
So we're like, oh my goodness.
(37:18):
So we tear into the walls andit is a probably 25 pound
honeycomb but it's abandoned andit's just got honey oozing out
of it into the walls so it wasjust really creepy stuff coming
on the walls yeah, it was comingthrough the walls, it was
seeping.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Okay, it's funny those are all natural things.
There's nothing blurry.
There's nothing supernaturalabout that.
Bees attack homes, honeycombsget in things.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
They do, but I can get into the scary stuff that
happened.
Well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Okay, so a mashup which is your favorite, I know
of this story makes it into thebook yes, Everything in the book
was informed by real events andI say that that was a the bees.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
That's a natural event.
The house we moved into thathad 31 dead cats in the backyard
.
Old ladies bury their cats.
Weird things happen.
You stack all these naturalevents up over time and that's
where I start to see perhapsthere's a supernatural thing,
using those things.
Now, I am not the I'm.
(38:23):
I'm a believer.
I believe in an afterlife.
I believe in the angelic, thedemonic.
I'm happy to live right hereand not see any of that even
with your wow.
You don't want to be wowed bythat I, I, I have no desire
you're like I'm the creator ofwow, I don't want anybody else,
and Rhonda's like open andhoping and looking for, like she
(38:44):
wants to see through the veil,whatever the veil is.
So we're very different thatway, unfortunately, from my
childhood experiences I've seenso many things associated with
places and homes and we'veexperienced our lives.
So our homes are a theme there.
I don't know the science behindthis and there has to be.
There's a science thatintersects with the supernatural
, but somehow homes can carryhistory, energy, things.
(39:10):
We could go into quantum physicswhy that might work, or science
, but the bottom line is it does.
And so we've been a part ofsome homes that have carried
some darker things, and we'vebeen a part of a home our most
recent home that was destroyed.
People would come to our homethat we've never, either
first-time visitor or lifelongfamily friend, and say they've
(39:31):
never slept that well in theirlives before, and I'd be like,
oh, it's probably carbonmonoxide.
No, there was a piece that camewith the thing.
So we incorporated thosethoughts into our book, and it
is not to steal them.
It's.
It's very blurry and the morewe research it, the blurrier it
gets.
What is natural, what isphysical, what is metaphysical?
(39:51):
The most annoying part aboutbeing authors and writing this
book we're about right now is wethought we had downloaded some
things.
We've had some life experiences.
Yeah, we work them into a bookand we're like we can't wait to
share these truths with theworld.
We do Now we're living newthings that now the book is
challenging us back again.
It's like oh, you believe thatand I don't know if there's a
(40:14):
therapeutic truth to this orsomething, but it seems, in lots
of areas in our lives, when youreceive a truth, it seems like
at some point soon after you'regoing to be tested.
And what does that truth looklike to you?
And that's where we've beenrecently in the book and even
since writing the first book.
We, for many reasons, we didn'tshare this our first round, but
at the end of finishing thebook I was diagnosed with cancer
(40:38):
.
Well, that's a very new traumain our lives, but we've just sat
in front of millions of peopleand said here's how we process
our trauma and this is whathelped us.
And now it's like oh so how areyou going to process this this
time?
What?
What are you going to do in thephysical that's going to affect
the metaphysical in thissituation?
So there's a whole journeythat's been with with that and
(40:58):
even now is where the process offinishing book three.
It's the Ouroboros, it's thecycles that we've created.
And now we've learned truths andnow it's talking back to us and
our you know.
So, with my cancer, am I goingto tackle this purely in the
physical, or are there otherblurry things going on that we
can build into that's?
Speaker 1 (41:19):
where we're at.
I love that it does, I lovethat I somebody said to me just
recently.
Can I just learn the lesson sothat this will stop?
Yeah, and I was like this won'tstop.
You aren't the?
The relief of this is not beingwithheld from you because
you're not learning something.
(41:39):
You're learning something inthe midst of the things, like
the Ouroboros.
It keeps coming.
Life continues to happen, yeah,but it's when we grow, as we
face things, as we walk throughthem.
It's about taking that,learning and applying it, like
you said, to everything thatwe've experienced.
(42:02):
Yeah, and then growing more andas it goes, it's like I love
that that it just it keepscycling.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
But I think you have to come to a place in your own
life where you let go and you'vegot to be willing to change,
because some of us like.
The phrase I always heard as akid is oh, you're going to go
around that mountain again,aren't you?
And yes, yes, we are going tokeep going around that mountain
(42:32):
until we learn.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
So there has to come a time in your life when you
just let go and you learn thelesson.
Stop being obstinate, stopbeing stubborn and I'm speaking
to myself, I'm confessing.
You just have to let go andlearn the lesson and change.
A lot of people don't likechange.
I don't like change, but I'mglad I've changed.
(42:55):
And that's the part that youhave to get past yourself and
you've got to know that there isa better ending to this.
There is a better story comingand there is life on the other
side.
There is peace on the otherside.
But you have to be willing tolet go with whatever it is that
you're strangling yourself with,and you've got to let it go and
(43:16):
realize change is good andthat's where the life lessons
keep coming.
They don't stop.
So what are we going to do withthem?
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Right.
Yeah, I think we all too oftenlook to the environment to make
us feel better, and what I hearyou saying, rhonda, is that once
I let go of what I'm clutchingonto in the environment and I
just embrace the fact that I amwho I am and I want to learn and
grow, and I'm not going todemand that the environment
(43:48):
caretakes me, but I'm going tolearn to caretake myself.
Yes, I will get.
I will get care from theenvironment, but I won't demand
it anymore than that mountainthat I'm going to go around
again, cause you will may lookjust a little bit different, a
little more palatable, a littlemore doable.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
It'll be a smaller mountain.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Until it shrinks Right.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
And then that's the end of the Ouroboros.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
But also I think, like like Jason was saying, I do
embrace the supernatural andthe freaky and I like to learn
from that and I think that wecan.
So every time Jason and I do abook signing, I've started
writing a little phrase in therelisten to the whispers, listen
(44:48):
to the whispers.
I believe that there is a kindand gentle, loving whisper that
if we shut down the rest of theworld and shut down our own
fears and listen, we will findthat still small voice and there
will be a place of healingcoming from that still small
voice.
So for me, I like to write inthose bits of the stories to
(45:12):
lead people to want to ask thequestion is this real?
I don't know.
Why don't you ask what is thevoice saying?
Quiet your head and listen forthat voice and see if you can
hear that truth.
So I like to challenge that.
That's exciting for me.
Jason doesn't like it so much,but I love it.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
I do.
I just don't know which one ofthe voices I'm going to have to
listen to.
I'm going to be talking aboutthe whispers on the couch
podcast Healthy voices.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Healthy voices a couch podcast healthy, healthy
voices, healthy voices.
I love that this has been sofun.
Yeah, it's always fun to bewith you guys.
It's fun to think about wherethis project is, has been and
where it's going, and themovement and the stirring that
you guys are creating and havecreated.
(46:02):
Please, more audio books.
We're going to work on it.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
We got to get rest from the last one.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
We're excited because the next book is coming out
this year November 18th, andit's been a challenge because,
just like with any work,caretaker really just laid a
foundation.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
And it took a lot of.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
We just really needed to invest in these characters
and it from Caretaker Servantjust takes off and now a real
journey begins, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I know that book too.
I know Servant picks up whereCaretaker left off Yep, and I'm
going to challenge everybodylistening go read it, it's a big
cliffhanger and I'm going tochallenge everybody listening.
Go read it, because the end ofthe book you're like what have
you?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
done to me.
And I think it will be veryexciting for the people who want
to continue to read to see whatwe've done.
And then I'm really, reallyexcited about the ending.
The ending takes it evenfurther into the supernatural,
(47:10):
and Jason and I had anopportunity to write that
together, I think on yourbirthday, which was in June, so
it was recent, and we might havehad maybe two hours together
and we wrote the biggest climaxof the book in two hours and it
just flowed and it was so funand he's pacing the room and I'm
(47:30):
typing as fast as I can and itwas just very exciting to be
able to work like that.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
So if that's book two , I can't wait for us to get
into book three and starthitting those moments again and
watch how this is going to end.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
I know you guys don't do anything small and I really
thank you for sharing that withthe world and not keeping that
just for yourself.
So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I think I find it hard to know that people would
actually care.
They do, and it's made animpact, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Thank you.
I think I find it hard to knowthat people would actually care.
They do, and it's made animpact, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
We'll keep writing.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
And audio scoring Awesome.
Welcome to Restoration Beyond the Couch.
I'm Dr Lee Long and today I'mjoined once again by Jason and
Rhonda Halbert.
Together they wrote Caretaker,the first book in the Good
Pasture Chronicles, under thepen name RJ Halbert.
This series grew out of theircreativity and became a way to
(00:23):
process trauma throughstorytelling.
Caretaker blends history,mystery and some therapy into a
powerful read and the audiobookman.
It delivers a true cinematicexperience.
I highly recommend it.
In today's conversation we'llexplore the struggles they've
faced and the lessons thatthey've learned, and how their
(00:46):
story has become a message ofhope and restoration for others.
Your path to mental wellnessstarts here, because we've
walked a lot of miles togetherin a lot of different ways and I
don't know.
I mean it's like you guys gofrom a career in music to a
best-selling book.
I mean like wrap your headaround that like a best-selling
(01:08):
book.
Speaker 2 (01:10):
I don't know that we've slowed down enough to
think about it.
Speaker 3 (01:12):
We haven't wrapped.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It hasn't been wrapped around our heads.
Speaker 1 (01:15):
yet there's no head wrapping around it.
Speaker 2 (01:16):
There's no head wrapping.
Speaker 1 (01:17):
Yeah, the title of the book Caretaker, and that's
the first in a trilogy of theGood Pasture Chronicles and I
look at it as like a movement.
It's like the Good PastureChronicles movement I like that
I do like that.
(01:37):
Right, so you guys did a postrecently on maybe Instagram or
one of the socials and you askedthe question.
Jason, like okay, the title ofour book is Caretaker.
The reason we named itCaretaker is take it away, do
you remember?
Speaker 3 (01:55):
Yeah, I don't remember what I said I do.
Speaker 1 (01:58):
You said you know Rhonda was the caretaker for her
mother.
Yep, through her, like, usheredher into heaven.
You were the caretaker for yourmother, ushered her into heaven
.
And it's like what doescaretaker mean to you?
And I was like what a great.
(02:18):
I love that question.
Speaker 3 (02:20):
The book didn't start off in that aspect.
The book, initially the story,is about this house.
The house is actually the maincharacter of the book and we had
a caretaker of the house.
And as this house in this bookis something very special, more
(02:45):
special than the readers of thefamily knows, and we know what
it's as parents.
We know what it's like to bestewards of our children,
caretakers of them.
It was a new experience Rhondawent through it first, being a
caretaker for her mother, but itreally is.
It's a stewardship of somethingprecious.
And so somehow all those layerscame in together and we started
(03:07):
reading our own story.
We'd already written.
That's what made me ask thequestion is is what does
caretaker mean to you?
Because we actually wrote it inone aspect and then it turned
into something else yeah,discovering the different layers
of that word, that was fun whatwere the wrinkles that you guys
have seen from that?
Speaker 2 (03:25):
Like, in what way In?
Speaker 1 (03:26):
any way.
Speaker 2 (03:28):
I'm sorry, this is what happens, it's all good.
Um, so I think as we wrote thestory uh, it just started
(03:52):
opening up.
We were in such a heavy spot inour lives and we didn't know
what else to do.
Um, to face every single daywith the heaviness of processing
taking care of my mother andprocessing the loss of our home
and taking care of what doesthat rebuild look like?
And that word caretaker justunfolds, it opens up Pandora's
(04:16):
box, basically.
Speaker 1 (04:17):
It really does.
Speaker 2 (04:18):
It does, and I don't think we knew that.
I think we were inspired by theword because of the journey
that we were on personally.
But the book itself, man Idon't know how to describe it
because it just sounds so cheesyit started to develop itself
and the more we wrote, the morethe meanings just kept going
(04:41):
deeper and deeper and deeper.
And, man, in the process ofwriting, I found a lot of
healing in that journey oftaking care of my mother and
taking care of rebuilding ourhome and taking care of
ourselves, learning how to takecare of myself.
I don't think I knew how to dothat.
Think I knew how to do that,and writing the book has become
(05:10):
this lesson for me ofunderstanding what caretaker
actually means.
On again, it's just so manylevels I don't even know how to
go there.
Speaker 1 (05:15):
So I love what you said about learning to take care
of yourself.
Because when I saw your post,what hit me?
Cause?
I was like, oh, I want to play.
And I was like what's my answerto that?
And I thought for a bit youknow what is caretaker, what
does that look like?
And you know, I've read thebook a few times.
Listen to the audio book, we'llget to that.
(05:36):
It's phenomenal.
But the thing that struck me asI stepped back and really just
let the word sit was exactlywhat you just said Caretaker.
It's like, do we know how tocaretake us?
Do we know how to take care ofthe thing, the thing that we've
been gifted, which is ourselves?
Speaker 2 (05:58):
I think at the time we didn't.
We didn't know how.
We run 110 miles a minute andour, our lifestyle calls for it,
and it's more than a culturalthing, even though I know
americans in general, we have avery busy lifestyle compared to
(06:18):
other countries.
But then you throw in theentertainment business and that
one's like it's jacked up on 11.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
And it's Nice final tap reference there.
Thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (06:29):
Yeah, and it's one of those things where, like to
keep up, you just have to keepgoing.
And we, just in our younger days, when we set the groundwork for
our lives, we had the energyand we had the capacity and the
understanding of, well, we'lljust do this and we'll just do
(06:50):
this, and we'll just do this andwe could do it.
And then now we're getting laterin our lives and then disaster
happening to us and realizing,oh wait, you can't sustain that,
it's not forever.
It's very detrimental actuallywhat we've done to ourselves and
we're having to unpack a lot ofthat and figure out what that
looks like to take care of us,so we can take care of each
(07:13):
other, so we can take care ofour family, so we can take care
of our property, so we can takecare of our future.
And I think that that's beenthe deep lesson.
On top of all of that, what thestory Caretaker talks about is
taking care of the future, andfor us, this book actually is
talking about generations, andwhat we're doing now is going to
(07:36):
affect our future and what wewant to do is to take care of it
so that it has longevity and itleaves an impact beyond us.
I've never had that feeling orthat desire to want to leave an
eternal impact.
That's actually never been athought in my mind.
I just thought, well, I'm herewith this life, I'll do the best
(07:57):
that I can, and then we go onto the next life.
And now that I'm just gettingolder in life, I'm like, oh, I
want to leave something for mykids, something of myself, not
money, not property, somethingof myself.
I want to leave something formy grandkids.
I want them to know who I was,and I didn't actually know my
(08:19):
grandparents that well.
I wish I did.
I knew them some.
I wish I would have known thembetter.
And I would like for the thirdgeneration, the fourth
generation, to have littleglimpses of who we are as people
and the stories that we tell.
And I want it to bring life andI want it to be a gift to the
(08:39):
future.
So I think that's even anotherdefinition of caretaker.
Speaker 1 (08:43):
So I think that's even another definition of
caretaker.
I love that.
I think that you look back atthe things that you guys went
through from 2020 on and it'slike one loss after the next.
Just a random bullet taking anephew, a cancer, dementia,
(09:09):
covid, then I guess would it befair to say that the final blow
was the flood.
Speaker 3 (09:16):
I think the flood of our home was the final blow
because, aside from my nephewbeing shot, most of the things
we experienced are things thateverybody would experience at
some point in their life.
We're not unique and traumahits everybody in many different
ways.
I think the number andintensity in a short amount of
time stacked up really quicklyand our home was our safe place.
Speaker 2 (09:42):
This was our forever home.
Speaker 3 (09:43):
This was at the very least we'd come together into
this place.
And it even became more of thatspace during COVID Because, as
we all were taken away from workand family and community, our
home became even more of a place.
It had already been a place ofhealing for our daughter through
cancer.
It's been a place of communityand it holds all your memories.
(10:03):
It holds the things that keepyou going when trauma hits your
life Right.
So when that was destroyed andI'm saying destroyed, unlivable,
uninhabitable it wasn't thefinancial impact because we
could work hard again, we couldrebuild on our own.
We can buckle down and do it.
It's what it wiped outemotionally for us.
(10:24):
Know we can buckle down and doit.
It's it's what it wiped outemotionally for us.
And it took away a place ofsafe haven during already very
difficult time.
Um, and I remember talking toyou early on we I think we've
already discussed how we cameabout writing this book, and
this book sounds so heavy, likeif I was, if I was tuning into
restoration beyond the couch,which I do and it'd be like wait
a minute.
Why are we talking about a book?
(10:44):
And for us, we, we took this inthis creative outlet.
At first, I remember discussingthis with you a long time ago,
saying I feel like I'm almostcopping out like this this,
surely this is unhealthy.
Right, I'm creating this, we'recreating this fantasy world so
(11:05):
we don't have to deal in ourreality.
Right, and to be honest, afteryears of every morning on the
way to work, on the way home,talking about the update with
your mother, then my mother,then my sister, and then at some
point, to be able to talk aboutthese other people, these other
characters that didn't existand build and dream together, to
actually give birth tosomething in the midst of so
(11:26):
much death, became such a placeof peace and joy for us.
Right, and I was a little bitworried about am I creating this
compartment of non-reality toexist in?
Right here, and we'vediscovered over time that for us
, it was actually.
What the book taught us is wewere actually processing trauma
during that.
That's exactly right.
We were taking instead ofputting on each other.
(11:48):
Here's how I feel, here's howyou feel.
Here's what does that mean?
Well, we, literally we put themonto these poor characters, and
we're not writers.
I'm a songwriter and I'm acreator and ronda's a creator in
different ways, but writing thewritten word has never been our
thing.
I remember hearing interviewsabout authors saying these
characters took on their ownlife.
Ours did, and I know thatsounds really cheesy I'm rolling
(12:11):
my eyes with you as I hearpeople say that.
But they did.
We set them up with some of ourtruths and then the story
developed this thing and ittaught us during that time, and
so that's.
I have no idea what thequestion was, but that's my
answer to it.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
I love the answer, but I think that there's a
really special place there, forit's funny when I learned or
when I was.
When I'm around otherprofessionals in this field and
they say, yeah, well, we'regoing to use wet therapy, and
I'm like, oh, I don't like theway that sounds.
Speaker 2 (12:50):
I've never heard of it.
Speaker 1 (12:51):
It's called written exposure therapy and people
write out their traumas.
And that's exactly when wetalked.
It was like, yes, we usemetaphors in DBT because that's
what helps people.
It's an experience and givingpeople an experience that can
help drive home a differentpathway.
(13:11):
I mean, you're not only did youprovide a pathway to walk
through your things.
I will say that, since the bookhas been out for gosh a year now
, more than a year that whatI've seen it do in my practice
is that it's taken people who'vebeen walking through their
tragedies and traumas and it'sgiven them the inspiration to
(13:35):
one face them.
It's given them the inspirationto one face them that there was
.
There were some people who saidI've never talked about this
with anybody, but there weresome themes in caretaker that
really helped unearth for methings that I've kept hidden for
a very long time, and I thinkit's time to bring it to the
light.
And so it's already impactingpeople in the mental health
(13:57):
space, right, and yeah, it'stime to bring it to the light.
And so it's already impactingpeople in the mental health
space, right, and yeah, it's afiction.
I love your description of itit's some history, some mystery
and a little bit of therapy.
Speaker 2 (14:06):
Yes, I mean, I can honestly say, without us even
having known the skills thatyou're talking about and the
education that you gatheredthroughout your career, not
having any of that.
(14:27):
It truly was healing for us andwe're still walking lots of it
out as well.
But it gave us a starting point, because we were both so buried
by our grief and I can't evensay that word grief without
feeling that lump come up in mythroat.
It was dark days and now we'reable to laugh and talk about it.
But I think the way we gotthere was because we wrote
(14:49):
something that brought us lifeand it brought us freedom and it
brought us hope, not knowing itwould take us there.
It was just like Jason said.
It was just an outlet to getout of our heads, to get out of
our pain and to be able to dreamand then be able to do it
together, because a lot of timeswe can say, okay, well, that's
(15:12):
the way you're going to processand this is the way I'm going to
process, and then somehow thatactually can drive sometimes a
little bit of a division because, we're not seeing the same way,
but, man, I'm so thankful thatthis drove us closer together.
It was definitely hard, but Ithink we're starting to see that
(15:33):
we actually just said it toeach other today.
Oh my gosh, we're a really goodteam.
Speaker 3 (15:42):
We said that and it's like yeah, we were like oil and
vinegar, those don't mix.
I'm like, yeah, but they tastegreat together.
Speaker 1 (15:48):
You just have to shake them Well, that's what I
said, I go.
Speaker 2 (15:50):
you have to macerate those.
Speaker 1 (15:55):
What has it been like with you guys working together?
I mean because you're right,typically in grief, in trauma,
that does tend to pull a coupleapart, because not everybody
grieves the same and nor shouldthey, right.
And so how has that beenworking together as a married
couple?
It's been a journey.
Speaker 3 (16:17):
I love that.
It's been fantastic journey.
I love that it's been fantastic.
I don't know, and we'veactually this has been a
catalyst, probably more thananything else.
We've had some other couples inthe industry and I've thought a
long time about working with myspouse and what is that like?
And because there is a stigmaagainst it professionally,
because working with your spouse, at least in our industry, um,
(16:41):
and then it's, it's hard.
It's hard enough decidingwhat's for dinner.
Get along with your future isfor.
Speaker 2 (16:47):
What's crazy is we can't decide on what's for
dinner, but we can decide andactually work together on the
ending for book two, Like that's.
That's crazy.
I don't know how that's working.
Speaker 3 (16:58):
But for us it's been a mutual respect for each
other's skill sets.
We're very, very differentpeople, as most couples are.
Speaker 2 (17:03):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (17:04):
And I have Elaine that I operate very freely in
and too freely in, and sheoperates in a lane that she
operates very freely and toofreely in, and so we do like
this, like bumper cars, andsomehow it smoothed out into
this lovely routine of notretaining the bad way but just
the yeah, we're operating.
Speaker 2 (17:20):
We understand each other now.
Now, this is 32 years ofmarriage and 35 years of being
together, um, and so I don'tknow what that would be like if
we were younger, but, um, yeah,we understand each other's
strengths now.
And, and there's like workingwith Jason is phenomenal.
All I need is him in the room.
I will get writer's block or Iwill get stomped, or I will be,
(17:43):
you know, uninspired and I'mjust like I can't do it today.
Jason comes in the room and I'mlike, oh, okay, I got you.
Okay, I can do this, you know.
And he's such a hugeinspiration because he comes in
with these huge ideas, right,and somebody in our life gave us
this phrase of he's the wow andI'm the how.
And that's what I love is hecan come in and blow the doors
(18:06):
off with his big dreams.
Speaker 3 (18:07):
And then I get instantly exhausted because I
come up with this wild thing.
We can start and by the end ofit you know we're throughout the
known universe.
And then I go in the instantdepression.
This is beautiful, like howcould I ever possibly achieve
that?
How and that's where rondasteps in, she's, she can take
the next piece and take the timeand go with it.
And so there's a there's alittle there's.
(18:30):
In any venture, any business.
You're gonna have to partnerwith somebody, right, and it's
gonna require trust andvulnerability, even if it's on a
business level, right.
So why not have that trust andvulnerability that's already
built in and we're able to helpeach other on the same goal.
So for us, it's been abeautiful thing.
Speaker 2 (18:47):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (18:49):
I think it's incredible and the financial
splits are great 100, 100.
Speaker 1 (18:55):
I think that's beautiful because you guys, like
you're saying, you guys are aninspiration to each other and
for each other and that, walkingthrough this, it sounds like to
me it's something that has beena real cohesive and drawing you
guys together even more at thisstage of three decades into
your marriage Again.
Speaker 3 (19:19):
I think you know it's like this is a healing process
for you, and maybe noteverybody's in a position to be
in business with their partner,their spouse, together.
But, um, you know, you don't.
You're not married 32 yearswithout some couples therapy of
some sort.
So, yes, we've been throughmany different forms of couples
therapy and a lot of times somepeople record, you know we're at
the heights of something.
It's like it's just good totake a timeout.
I'm not good with a timeout,like what do we do?
(19:39):
This has kind of become almosta timeout.
It's like we're going to getback to this.
We're going to focus, likewe're able to put marriage
things aside for a moment towork on something we love
together.
Speaker 2 (19:50):
It's become neutral territory yes, time out yeah,
care about it.
So it's neutral enough to where, even when we might not be at a
good place with each other,this is this project.
This story is so precious to usthat we're both handling that
carefully, and because we dothat, it brings us into this
neutral zone of okay, well, wecan still do this, because this
(20:12):
means this much to us and wewant to see it to the end.
So that actually has been likethe safety zone, I guess, for us
.
Speaker 1 (20:22):
I think that's really an incredible thing that you
guys have done in this right,because I think those listening.
I hope that what we're alllearning from you guys is it's
like we have to be creative infinding how we relate to each
other.
After three decades Right,especially when you've gone
through all the things crammedinto.
(20:44):
I mean my gosh when you talkabout packing something in.
You guys have packed in a lotof hurt, a lot of trauma, a lot
of loss, a lot of really hardthings all into one timeframe,
very small timeframe, and,rather than it tearing you apart
, it's like, okay, what's uniqueto us?
First of all, how do we figureout how to process this thing?
(21:04):
Second of all, how do we useour creativity?
Because both of you have alwaysboth been very creative and
love productions, and so how doI take this creativity?
How do I fight to be with youand in that, in that center
space, it's like you're creatingsomething beautiful that's not
(21:26):
only for you, but there's it'sfor everybody else.
Speaker 2 (21:29):
Yeah, I think, just so that we're also not painting
this perfect picture.
Sure, yeah, we were hurting sobadly that we didn't know how to
reach each other, and we endedup going to get a brain therapy
because our brains were sotraumatized that we were both in
(21:52):
fight or flight mode, and whenwe're both in fight or flight,
we're fleeing from each other.
So there was a season at thebeginning of this where it
wasn't so rosy and we didn'thave the answers, but in the
core of who we are, we knew thatI love you, you love me.
So there's this journey thatwe're doing this together.
(22:14):
So how can we get there?
And so we were grasping andreaching you know, like, what
can we do?
And we're asking for help, andwe're asking for assistance.
And so we had multiple avenuesthat we reached out to,
ultimately getting us to theplace, to where we weren't in
fight or flight, we could calmdown, see each other in each
(22:37):
other's pain, and then thiscreativity started to come on
its own and it gave us an outlet.
And then that's what drew uscloser together instead of
pulling us apart.
But the beginning, like I hopeanybody who's listening doesn't
think that we made all thesegreat decisions from the
beginning, because that's nothow life goes.
Speaker 1 (23:01):
Right, it's a lengthy process, no matter what.
What I love about what you'resaying is that here's the
caretaker theme again is that Ihad to learn how to take care of
me.
Yes, I wanted to take care ofyou, not in a codependent way so
much, but I want to be able tocare for you, and it's like that
came together and createdsomething really beautiful.
That's why I think it's amovement.
Speaker 2 (23:22):
Yeah.
Speaker 3 (23:23):
The thing about caretakers.
We originally the book ismorphed in a good way, a series,
I mean.
We sat down like the first timewe spoke to you.
We're like we have this wholething mapped out.
This is how it starts, this ishow it ends, and that is true.
And we wrote I'm layingtogether a thought there, good
(23:45):
edit point for your edit righthere.
I might skip on there, but Ihad a really good one.
I left a button Come back.
Speaker 1 (23:54):
It left me.
That's why it's a movement.
Speaker 3 (23:56):
Yes, the idea when we wrote Caretaker.
The book has morphed, but whenthe first idea, I was actually
looking for a caretaker, likeyou're, in that the trauma
happens so fast back to back,things would happen where this
would happen.
I need to process that.
But now Rhonda's taking care ofher mom, now Rhonda's a
(24:17):
caretaker.
Now something happens Her mom'sjust passed away.
Not even time to process that.
So the rapid fire of all thathit, yeah, and it wasn't even
conscious.
And then, as we wrote this book, I realized we did a.
It wasn't a lie, but I've donemany national interviews at this
point where I've said this bookis not based on our lives, that
we informed it.
I think, looking back, we wroteso much for ourselves.
(24:40):
The characters are not based onour literal things, but we
wrote our pain into that and theonly reason I know that now is
because we weren't processingthe trauma.
Now, as we're working on thebook and continuing it, now
we're actually there's scenesthat come up and with the audio
book that I realize, oh, Iactually never even processed
that.
I'm weeping and regrievingthings again that we weren't
(25:03):
able to.
So the book is now speaking usback, and so the caretaker,
through many conversations withtherapists and people that are
important in our lives.
It's so trite, but when theairplane goes down, oxygen masks
first.
And something we've learnedthrough caretakers the best way
to be a caretaker is to takecare of yourself, which in some
(25:23):
upbringings can feel veryselfish and both of us are
realizing this journey, that wehad not been taking care of
ourselves and had to let go ofthat for a second, and so the
the idea of caretaker, even forus, has morphed, and that has
even informed.
What's funny is we haven't hadto change the story.
The story was already there.
There's things that are goingto happen with the caretaker
that unpack all that.
And this all sounds so heavy.
(25:44):
It's really a fun book we'retalking like.
Speaker 1 (25:47):
It is a really fun book.
You know the first one iscaretaker then comes servant and
then last is architect, and youthink about those three titles
and how much significancecaretaker has.
And how much significancecaretaker has when you named all
three, where there is is.
Is each book crafted around theessence of what that word means
(26:09):
?
Speaker 3 (26:10):
Yes, and it's multi-layered, and so it's hard
to talk about it in a sense, butjust like we've unpacked
caretaker has several layers andmeanings for people.
Sure, so does servant, and Ithink that, um, the idea of
servant, of servant, while ithas negative connotations, it's
almost being enslaved and beingindebted, it's a hierarchy.
But, then there's servant as inserving, which is a byproduct
(26:34):
of being a caretaker.
So, yeah, that's all verypurposeful and written into it.
Speaker 2 (26:40):
Yeah, when you break down the three names, like go
even further into architect, sothat in itself you're carefully
designing something You'recreating and because you've
become the creator, it'sprecious to you and now you care
for it.
So there's just so many layersof what's about to come.
Speaker 1 (27:02):
Which is the Ouroboros.
Our symbology is all very….
Which is the Ouroboros?
Our symbology is all very whichis the cover of the book.
Speaker 3 (27:06):
Yes, it's an ancient symbol of infinity that things
happen in cycles.
Speaker 2 (27:12):
And repeat.
Speaker 3 (27:13):
So for us, without giving away a lot of spoilers,
it's really exciting for us.
But a caretaker into servantand architect into caretaker is
just a never-ending cycle andwe're cycle and some fun places
with that.
Speaker 1 (27:29):
I love that, talking about fun places, you guys put
together an audio book, which ismy favorite because I love to
consume information and I loveto consume it in an audible way.
Um, tell us about that, because, coming from a guy who never
listened to audio books, did youlisten to audio books?
Speaker 2 (27:48):
You weren't an audio book reader, not an audio
listener.
Speaker 3 (27:51):
Okay, I mean we brought it.
I grew up together and, um,from a young age and in more
ways than one, and we wereinvolved uh, involved in our
music department, at church andall the dramas and everything.
And I had a mentor growing up.
Don stayed and if, if we neededa 15 minute production with
like one main character, I gotyou two hours 37 characters.
(28:15):
That has seeped into my dna andit's, it's carried through like,
I think, the first time rondawatched um.
I think maybe eight or so yearsago I I produced and wrote the
opening for the Billboard MusicAwards and she thought okay,
hold on a second.
Speaker 1 (28:29):
That is one of my favorite ever.
Speaker 3 (28:33):
It's mine too, they asked for a three-minute song
and we worked in 42 songs inthose three minutes and ta-da, I
mean we had like every that's adirect lineage of Dawn Stabe
and the production.
So I say all that to say thatthat's just inherent in who I am
, and so definitely the wow, yes, See.
(28:53):
So it was a surprise I we didnot only do we write a book,
which was a surprise the gettingit out there as independent
authors, and there's a wholereason why we decided to go
independent with this book.
That achievement, you feel likewe did it.
We can rest now.
Speaker 2 (29:10):
Let's go on vacation Woohoo we did it?
Yes, and then somebody's like.
Speaker 3 (29:14):
Well, where's the audiobook?
I'm like the audiobook.
Apparently, that's a big deal.
We do our research over 50something percent of people,
yeah, so I've never listened toan audiobook, so I'm like okay
audiobook.
so I'll go listen to anaudiobook and the first one I
listened.
I've since learned there aremany multicast audiobooks, but I
listened to three books I knew,and it was one narrator reading
it and instantly I'm like, well, that does not match the voice
(29:36):
in my head and you know, thevoice reading for different
characters didn't work for me.
So so I'm like, well, what ifwe do this?
I gave this to Rhonda, thiswhole thing, like I want sound
effects, I want music, I wanteach person to be a different
voice and a different castmember.
And the first time she went tohow, like, how am I even going
to do that?
Speaker 1 (29:55):
What she shifted from how to what I'm like.
Speaker 3 (29:59):
I got this.
I record and produce music andvocals for a living.
I got this.
How hard can it be so skippinga lot of things we actually
wrote together.
We wrote a dream list of actorsand voices that weren't
necessarily tied to thecharacters but, just like the
(30:21):
book, we were characters thatwere actors that were important
in our lives.
They evoked an emotion thatleft an imprint on us that felt
like the same imprint ofsomething in the story.
They all said yes, which wasamazing.
We ended up recording them all.
Um, and then the editingprocess happened.
Yeah, it's like.
You know my little three and ahalf minute songs that I've
produced over the years.
This is like 15 000 of those.
I mean, it's 15 days of audiotimes, 12 actors and there's
(30:44):
some math formula here.
But you know, if you have henryand cusick, amy grant, kelly
clarkson, michael shanks, ericavari, all giving you five lines
each, and then, well, this lineworks with this one, but now
this one, and it's all of asudden, there's a hundred
million permutations,permutations, permutations.
(31:05):
Yeah, so I'll say it took us ayear to finish the audiobook.
It was a labor of love andwe're extremely excited about it
and thrilled about it.
Speaker 1 (31:16):
For those audiobook listeners we feel the love.
I'm glad it's full with a scoregetting all the characters and
my favorite were the soundeffects.
Speaker 2 (31:27):
Mine too, you know the wind, we actually hired a
Foley guy from Hollywood to dothat, and it was absolutely
worth it.
It made the story come evenmore alive than how it was in my
own mind.
Speaker 3 (31:43):
There were scenes we wrote from our own experiences
that we'd written, we'd read,we've talked about.
We heard the narration as soonas the sound effects came in.
It immersed us in that.
It was like you're nine yearsold all again, you're in that
spot.
Absolutely.
The power of those sensesreally enhanced the story and
added a weight to it thatsurprised even us.
Really enhanced the story andadded a weight to it that
surprised even us.
Speaker 2 (32:02):
I think what also surprised me was we wrote the
story from a certain point ofview, but these actors don't
have our point of view.
Yes, so, as they're trying outdelivering a line in a certain
way, which is what Jason wasreferencing.
Like we would get five versionsof one sentence.
It was so fascinating to hearit was coming from their
(32:24):
perspective and theirexperiences and their point of
view and you would just knowwhen they hit the right line and
you'd go oh, I never thought ofit like that and we wrote it.
That was fascinating to me andit just goes to show you that
everybody's experiences changeseverybody's view and there just
(32:45):
needs to be more grace in thisworld for that.
There really does, because wethink we are so single-minded.
And you must understand whatI'm saying, don't you understand
?
Speaker 3 (32:54):
where I've come from, all the central characters are
all in movies and stories Right.
Everything filters through that.
Speaker 2 (33:27):
But recording that just opened up a whole nother
experience of going.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
Oh, there's a lot more experiences out here and a
lot more voices and they've atthe time, but we got through it
and I'm glad we did it and nowwe've got all the actors going
when are we recording book two?
Speaker 2 (33:34):
And Jason's like oh, you got to have book two
recorded, it's been a journey.
Speaker 1 (33:36):
It's been a journey.
Okay, you guys have owned threedifferent homes, right, and in
each one of those there's beensome crazy stories and tales,
one of which we we somewhatexperienced a minor piece of
this, in that we had some beesthat that hived or nested, or
whatever bees do, because theyhived in our like on a an Eve in
(34:01):
our house.
They didn't make it in, but youguys were less fortunate and so
you found I mean, how many beeswere in your house in Cali?
Speaker 2 (34:11):
They told us about 40,000 bees were in our house.
Speaker 1 (34:15):
I mean that's like a whole honey factory.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
It was a dark cloud.
You know the cartoon when wewere kids you'd watch Bugs Bunny
and they would show a cloud, ablack cloud, flying together
like that, like bees.
That happened inside my house,not outside, it happened inside.
And so I went to the kitchen, Ithink, just to get some water,
food, whatever, and we were in.
(34:40):
There was a living room, akitchen and then like a formal
living room, so the kitchendivided that we were hanging out
in the back room.
I go to the kitchen and I justhear this low hum.
I'm like what did the kidsleave on?
And so I'm following the humand I go into the formal living
room and on the far end of thewindows which that far wall was,
(35:01):
all windows was just beeseverywhere.
It was inside.
It was so loud I freaked outand I'm allergic to bees.
So I grabbed the two tinychihuahuas and the kids and I'm
like come on, kids, we're goingout the side door.
And so we go outside and standin the front yard.
I call some bee guy and hecomes out and we're all standing
(35:25):
in the yard because I'm notgoing anywhere near that house,
and he gets out of his car andthe house is behind me, I'm
facing the street and as he getsout of the car I think he's
looking at me.
But then I'm noticing he's notlooking at me.
He's looking above me and I'mlike what is he looking at?
And I turn around.
And that's when we saw anothermovement in the sky coming and
(35:50):
it scared him and he was the Bguy.
He was like oh my gosh.
And I'm like what do I do?
And he's like there's nothingyou can do and so just run.
Yeah, I mean, he was just likejust, you know, don't go near
the house.
So he suits up and he gets agiant smoker and he smokes them
(36:11):
out.
I didn't want dead bees all inthe house.
We just wanted them gone, Right.
So he smoked them out and ittook some time and we there were
other parts of the house thatwe could get to without feeling
like we were going to beattacked by the bees.
So we were able to go backinside, but it took some time.
But basically he said, yeah,the queen decided to move in and
it was an old house we love oldhouses and so she found an
opening and it went through tothe inside of the house instead
(36:34):
of just in the heaves and soyeah, so that was our experience
of live bees and in that samehouse we were remodeling so we
were tearing down a bunch ofwalls.
And we go to our daughter's roomand we noticed this stain, like
an odd stain on the wall, andwe're just, this house was so
(36:57):
old and so scary and there wasthere's like a whole another
long story that we could write abook about that.
There was an actual murderscene in the house and we
actually had homicideinvestigated and it's an open
case.
So there's that story.
So, as that is going on, we seethis stain on the wall.
It's looking like it's dripping.
So we're like, oh my goodness.
(37:18):
So we tear into the walls andit is a probably 25 pound
honeycomb but it's abandoned andit's just got honey oozing out
of it into the walls so it wasjust really creepy stuff coming
on the walls yeah, it was comingthrough the walls, it was
seeping.
Speaker 3 (37:36):
Okay, it's funny those are all natural things.
There's nothing blurry.
There's nothing supernaturalabout that.
Bees attack homes, honeycombsget in things.
Speaker 2 (37:43):
They do, but I can get into the scary stuff that
happened.
Well, yeah.
Speaker 1 (37:47):
Okay, so a mashup which is your favorite, I know
of this story makes it into thebook yes, Everything in the book
was informed by real events andI say that that was a the bees.
Speaker 3 (38:02):
That's a natural event.
The house we moved into thathad 31 dead cats in the backyard
.
Old ladies bury their cats.
Weird things happen.
You stack all these naturalevents up over time and that's
where I start to see perhapsthere's a supernatural thing,
using those things.
Now, I am not the I'm.
(38:23):
I'm a believer.
I believe in an afterlife.
I believe in the angelic, thedemonic.
I'm happy to live right hereand not see any of that even
with your wow.
You don't want to be wowed bythat I, I, I have no desire
you're like I'm the creator ofwow, I don't want anybody else,
and Rhonda's like open andhoping and looking for, like she
(38:44):
wants to see through the veil,whatever the veil is.
So we're very different thatway, unfortunately, from my
childhood experiences I've seenso many things associated with
places and homes and we'veexperienced our lives.
So our homes are a theme there.
I don't know the science behindthis and there has to be.
There's a science thatintersects with the supernatural
, but somehow homes can carryhistory, energy, things.
(39:10):
We could go into quantum physicswhy that might work, or science
, but the bottom line is it does.
And so we've been a part ofsome homes that have carried
some darker things, and we'vebeen a part of a home our most
recent home that was destroyed.
People would come to our homethat we've never, either
first-time visitor or lifelongfamily friend, and say they've
(39:31):
never slept that well in theirlives before, and I'd be like,
oh, it's probably carbonmonoxide.
No, there was a piece that camewith the thing.
So we incorporated thosethoughts into our book, and it
is not to steal them.
It's.
It's very blurry and the morewe research it, the blurrier it
gets.
What is natural, what isphysical, what is metaphysical?
(39:51):
The most annoying part aboutbeing authors and writing this
book we're about right now is wethought we had downloaded some
things.
We've had some life experiences.
Yeah, we work them into a bookand we're like we can't wait to
share these truths with theworld.
We do Now we're living newthings that now the book is
challenging us back again.
It's like oh, you believe thatand I don't know if there's a
(40:14):
therapeutic truth to this orsomething, but it seems, in lots
of areas in our lives, when youreceive a truth, it seems like
at some point soon after you'regoing to be tested.
And what does that truth looklike to you?
And that's where we've beenrecently in the book and even
since writing the first book.
We, for many reasons, we didn'tshare this our first round, but
at the end of finishing thebook I was diagnosed with cancer
(40:38):
.
Well, that's a very new traumain our lives, but we've just sat
in front of millions of peopleand said here's how we process
our trauma and this is whathelped us.
And now it's like oh so how areyou going to process this this
time?
What?
What are you going to do in thephysical that's going to affect
the metaphysical in thissituation?
So there's a whole journeythat's been with with that and
(40:58):
even now is where the process offinishing book three.
It's the Ouroboros, it's thecycles that we've created.
And now we've learned truths andnow it's talking back to us and
our you know.
So, with my cancer, am I goingto tackle this purely in the
physical, or are there otherblurry things going on that we
can build into that's?
Speaker 1 (41:19):
where we're at.
I love that it does, I lovethat I somebody said to me just
recently.
Can I just learn the lesson sothat this will stop?
Yeah, and I was like this won'tstop.
You aren't the?
The relief of this is not beingwithheld from you because
you're not learning something.
(41:39):
You're learning something inthe midst of the things, like
the Ouroboros.
It keeps coming.
Life continues to happen, yeah,but it's when we grow, as we
face things, as we walk throughthem.
It's about taking that,learning and applying it, like
you said, to everything thatwe've experienced.
(42:02):
Yeah, and then growing more andas it goes, it's like I love
that that it just it keepscycling.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
But I think you have to come to a place in your own
life where you let go and you'vegot to be willing to change,
because some of us like.
The phrase I always heard as akid is oh, you're going to go
around that mountain again,aren't you?
And yes, yes, we are going tokeep going around that mountain
(42:32):
until we learn.
Speaker 1 (42:33):
Right.
Speaker 2 (42:33):
So there has to come a time in your life when you
just let go and you learn thelesson.
Stop being obstinate, stopbeing stubborn and I'm speaking
to myself, I'm confessing.
You just have to let go andlearn the lesson and change.
A lot of people don't likechange.
I don't like change, but I'mglad I've changed.
(42:55):
And that's the part that youhave to get past yourself and
you've got to know that there isa better ending to this.
There is a better story comingand there is life on the other
side.
There is peace on the otherside.
But you have to be willing tolet go with whatever it is that
you're strangling yourself with,and you've got to let it go and
(43:16):
realize change is good andthat's where the life lessons
keep coming.
They don't stop.
So what are we going to do withthem?
Speaker 1 (43:26):
Right.
Yeah, I think we all too oftenlook to the environment to make
us feel better, and what I hearyou saying, rhonda, is that once
I let go of what I'm clutchingonto in the environment and I
just embrace the fact that I amwho I am and I want to learn and
grow, and I'm not going todemand that the environment
(43:48):
caretakes me, but I'm going tolearn to caretake myself.
Yes, I will get.
I will get care from theenvironment, but I won't demand
it anymore than that mountainthat I'm going to go around
again, cause you will may lookjust a little bit different, a
little more palatable, a littlemore doable.
Speaker 2 (44:09):
It'll be a smaller mountain.
Speaker 1 (44:10):
That's right.
Speaker 2 (44:12):
Until it shrinks Right.
Speaker 1 (44:16):
And then that's the end of the Ouroboros.
Yeah.
Speaker 2 (44:19):
But also I think, like like Jason was saying, I do
embrace the supernatural andthe freaky and I like to learn
from that and I think that wecan.
So every time Jason and I do abook signing, I've started
writing a little phrase in therelisten to the whispers, listen
(44:48):
to the whispers.
I believe that there is a kindand gentle, loving whisper that
if we shut down the rest of theworld and shut down our own
fears and listen, we will findthat still small voice and there
will be a place of healingcoming from that still small
voice.
So for me, I like to write inthose bits of the stories to
(45:12):
lead people to want to ask thequestion is this real?
I don't know.
Why don't you ask what is thevoice saying?
Quiet your head and listen forthat voice and see if you can
hear that truth.
So I like to challenge that.
That's exciting for me.
Jason doesn't like it so much,but I love it.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
I do.
I just don't know which one ofthe voices I'm going to have to
listen to.
I'm going to be talking aboutthe whispers on the couch
podcast Healthy voices.
Speaker 1 (45:41):
Healthy voices a couch podcast healthy, healthy
voices, healthy voices.
I love that this has been sofun.
Yeah, it's always fun to bewith you guys.
It's fun to think about wherethis project is, has been and
where it's going, and themovement and the stirring that
you guys are creating and havecreated.
(46:02):
Please, more audio books.
We're going to work on it.
Speaker 2 (46:08):
We got to get rest from the last one.
Speaker 3 (46:11):
We're excited because the next book is coming out
this year November 18th, andit's been a challenge because,
just like with any work,caretaker really just laid a
foundation.
Speaker 2 (46:24):
And it took a lot of.
Speaker 3 (46:24):
We just really needed to invest in these characters
and it from Caretaker Servantjust takes off and now a real
journey begins, yeah.
Speaker 1 (46:34):
I know that book too.
I know Servant picks up whereCaretaker left off Yep, and I'm
going to challenge everybodylistening go read it, it's a big
cliffhanger and I'm going tochallenge everybody listening.
Go read it, because the end ofthe book you're like what have
you?
Speaker 2 (46:48):
done to me.
And I think it will be veryexciting for the people who want
to continue to read to see whatwe've done.
And then I'm really, reallyexcited about the ending.
The ending takes it evenfurther into the supernatural,
(47:10):
and Jason and I had anopportunity to write that
together, I think on yourbirthday, which was in June, so
it was recent, and we might havehad maybe two hours together
and we wrote the biggest climaxof the book in two hours and it
just flowed and it was so funand he's pacing the room and I'm
(47:30):
typing as fast as I can and itwas just very exciting to be
able to work like that.
Speaker 1 (47:35):
Yes.
Speaker 2 (47:36):
So if that's book two , I can't wait for us to get
into book three and starthitting those moments again and
watch how this is going to end.
Speaker 1 (47:48):
I know you guys don't do anything small and I really
thank you for sharing that withthe world and not keeping that
just for yourself.
So thank you, thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:00):
I think I find it hard to know that people would
actually care.
They do, and it's made animpact, so thank you.
Speaker 1 (48:03):
Thank you.
I think I find it hard to knowthat people would actually care.
They do, and it's made animpact, so thank you.
Speaker 2 (48:08):
We'll keep writing.
Speaker 1 (48:10):
And audio scoring Awesome.
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