August 22, 2024 • 39 mins
What pivotal decisions shape a successful career in marketing? Join us for an enlightening conversation with the esteemed Margaret Molloy, a global CMO and marketing expert, as she shares her fascinating career journey. Margaret discusses the bold choices that led her to success, including her move to the United States to earn an MBA and her recent decision to leave a long-term position in search of new opportunities. She emphasizes the importance of stepping out of her comfort zone and the invaluable role mentors have played in her life, likening them to an advisory board that provides diverse perspectives and support.
Discover how marketing can drive sustainability through powerful storytelling and effective communication. Margaret explains the synergy between brand marketing and performance marketing, highlighting how a strong brand ensures discoverability when consumers are ready to purchase. We also delve into the evolving skill set required of marketers today, from mastering new technological tools to developing essential soft skills like perceptive listening and building cohesive teams. This conversation underscores the importance of both strategic and tactical growth in the ever-changing marketing landscape.
Margaret also shares lessons learned from humility and innovation, recounting a personal anecdote about the refreshing perspective gained from a more startup-oriented mindset. We explore her passion project, #WearingIrish, which showcases Irish fashion designers and taught her valuable lessons about partnerships and creativity. The episode concludes with rapid-fire questions that reveal Margaret's personal preferences and early entrepreneurial experiences, offering a well-rounded and inspiring narrative that intertwines personal heritage with professional passion. Don’t miss this insightful episode filled with practical advice and inspiration for leaders and marketers alike.
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Margaret Molloy Biography:
Margaret Molloy has carved a notable brand management and marketing career, prominently serving as the Global CMO for Siegel+Gale for over a decade. Under her leadership, the branding agency flourished as she hosted hundreds of CMOs and thousands of guests worldwide at various industry conferences and private events. Margaret also shares her insights and the experiences of other marketing leaders on her podcast, "How CMOs Commit." An esteemed LinkedIn Top Voice and The Drum B2B Marketer of the Year, she is also recognized as a Fellow of the Marketing Society. Educated at Harvard Business School and the University of Ulster, with studies at La Universidad de Valladolid, Spain, Margaret’s academic background is as diverse as her professional experience. She balances her high-profile career in Manhattan with being a mom to two teenage boys. A native of Ireland, Margaret's international perspective and expertise make her a sought-after advisor and speaker in the global marketing community.
https://www.linkedin.com/in/margaretmolloy/
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paula (00:00):
I'm so excited to be here with Rich and Gautham, Rich,
Gautham.
How are you guys feeling today?
Gautham (00:07):
Super pumped to be here .
Thank you, Paula.
Look forward to thisconversation.
Rich (00:11):
Nothing like talking about retail with you guys to get the
blood flowing right.
Paula (00:15):
For me, it's nothing like being relatable with you guys.
Rich (00:20):
Oh look how you worked that in.
That is awesome.
Paula (00:24):
So I'm excited about this one.
Margaret Malloy just afantastic woman, linkedin top
voices, brand and consumerstrategist powerhouse of a woman
which I love.
Rich (00:41):
Do you know how sometimes you have mentors that you just
you follow, you learn from, butyou've never kind of officially
designated that relationship.
I was at the CMO club and sawher speak on branding,
Absolutely.
I mean.
I probably took about fivepages of notes she's one of.
(01:02):
She's a branding expert and Ilove learning from her.
Gautham (01:05):
Yeah, I'm excited for this as a marketing professor,
but I did snoop on her LinkedInprofile and the first thing
right, marketing is in my DNA isone of her first statements
that she says there, so I lookforward to asking her a couple
of questions on the state ofmarketing and as an immigrant.
It's really good to see anotherimmigrant on the show and she
(01:30):
states that as an unexpectedstatement from a farmer's
daughter and an immigrant, soI'm curious to see where she
starts and how she got to whereshe is.
Paula (01:39):
So shall we get into it?
I am excited, so let's justdive in.
Margaret Molloy has carved anotable career in brand
management and marketing, mostprominently serving as the
global CMO for Siegel and Galefor over a decade.
Under her leadership, thebranding agency flourished as
she hosted hundreds of CMOs andthousands of guests worldwide at
various industry conferencesand private events.
(02:01):
Margaret also shares herinsights and the experiences of
other marketing leaders on herpodcast called how CMOs Commit,
an esteemed LinkedIn top voiceand the Drum B2B Marketer of the
Year.
She is also recognized as aFellow of the Marketing Society.
Educated at Harvard BusinessSchool and the University of
Ulster, with studies at LaUniversidad de Balotoli, spain,
(02:25):
margaret's academic backgroundis as diverse as her
professional experience.
She balances her high-profilecareer in Manhattan with being a
mom to two teenage boys.
First of all, hats off to her.
A native of Ireland, margaret'sinternational perspective and
expertise makes her asought-after advisor and speaker
in the global marketingcommunity.
Please join us in welcomingMargaret Molloy.
Margaret (02:49):
My pleasure.
It's an honor.
Thank you for inviting me,Paula.
Rich (02:54):
Our audience is going to have access to your background.
You've got a very, veryimpressive bio and list of
credentials.
I want to start a little bitdifferently.
If you think back over thecourse of your career and even
life, are there three decisionsthat you've made or experiences
(03:14):
that you have, or three pivotalmoments that you think have led
you to where you are today?
Margaret (03:20):
So many Rich.
And thank you for the questionReflecting real time.
So many Rich and thank you forthe question Reflecting real
(03:49):
time.
I believe the first one was mydecision to go to college.
I all the benefits that accrueto an individual who has the
privilege of getting a highereducation, so that was pivotal.
Number one, number two I'llstay on the education track.
Number two was the decision toget my MBA.
So I had been in the UnitedStates at that time for about
five or six years and I had theinsight that getting an MBA,
(04:14):
from a credential standpoint,would elevate my knowledge,
would also elevate my networkand to some degree, coming from
a modest school in Ireland, Ifelt the need for that American
credential.
So that was pivotal, if youwill, in giving me that stamp of
approval that is so relevant,particularly for an immigrant
(04:37):
carving out a career in theUnited States.
And the third decision, theoutcome of which is still to be
determined, was the decisionthis spring to leave my job and
explore new opportunities.
Rich (04:50):
So I've got to ask the decision to leave and to explore
new opportunities nervewracking, scary, exhilarating.
Margaret (04:59):
All of the above, Rich , and I think we'll put a pin on
it and come back to me and I'llhave better analysis of that.
But ultimately it came from analmost visceral sense that I had
something else in me and Ineeded to leave my full-time
(05:20):
commitment to explore that.
And I was very privileged towork with and for wonderful
people, wonderful colleagues.
But my sense was I needed toget out of that comfort zone,
much like I had done in the pastas an immigrant, much like
going back for higher education.
I needed to force thateducation upon myself and I'm
(05:42):
optimistic.
But yes, it's nerve wracking,it's taking an unfamiliar path
which for everyone, will relateto.
Doing something that'sunfamiliar can be challenging
and hopefully rewarding.
Rich (05:54):
So let me take you back to Ireland.
Before you made the decision togo to college, is this the path
you thought you would take, ordid you have something
completely different in mind?
Margaret (06:03):
In terms of marketing and professional services.
Yes, I think that is the path.
It aligns well with my skillset and it sort of eliminates
the need for me to developskills in gap areas.
For example, I am very poor atall things medical, all things.
Clinical.
(06:24):
No-transcript, more intuitive,but honestly I'm not surprised.
(07:18):
It feels right.
Rich (07:20):
You mentioned role models.
You've been a role model and amentor.
I would consider you a rolemodel.
You've had role models andmentors throughout your career.
Is there one in particular thatyou think of kind of quick
recall and what advice or whatguidance that person gave you?
Margaret (07:41):
So many because I think of role models almost like
an advisory board, and Iconsider you one of mine too
Rich Professionals withdifferent areas of expertise,
different lived experiences thatI can benefit from.
I often say I collect people,but not like trophies although I
(08:04):
do display them on LinkedInfrom time to time but more from
a place of pride and deepaffection for the people I
surround myself with.
In terms of answering yourquestion with an individual,
I'll reference my first gradeteacher, mrs Sheehan.
Mrs Sheehan was a very worldlysophisticated, educated woman,
(08:30):
very poised, and she was a rolemodel for me and a mentor, not
in the kind of sort oftraditional sense of that, but
more by observation.
She gave me something to aspireto and she also, like so many
good educators, saw some talentand did everything she could to
(08:50):
build my academic ability atthat age, but also fostering me
a love of public speaking.
She coached me outside ofschool in recitations and that
skill set has helped me as amarketer and a convener of
people and speaker.
So perhaps a crazy choice, buta first grade teacher is
probably my first formal mentor.
(09:22):
In some ways, consumer behaviorhas changed dramatically over
the course of my multi-decadecareer now, but in other ways it
stayed constant.
So the ways that have changedhave been well-documented.
Channels are more variable.
There is more product in everycategory than any of us needs,
(09:43):
more clutter, so the burden onbrands is to be more distinctive
, to rise above that clutter.
Consumer behavior is probablyalso scaled in different ways in
terms of sameness anddifference.
I believe since the beginning oftime, consumer behavior is and
(10:04):
has always been influenced bycommunity.
You ask your neighbor forreferrals.
Well, today our neighbor isn'tgeographically bound because of
the channels that are at ourdisposal, but that instinct of
seeking input from others.
I think that's actually stayedthe same.
So the behaviors that areevolved, seeking input from
(10:28):
others, the notion of socialproof very relevant in retail.
Let's take apparel as anexample.
Wearing a particular garment ismore than just covering our
bodies.
In many cases the purpose thatserves is to identify ourselves
as part of a certain society orhaving a particular taste.
So this idea of social proof,that's been around for the
(10:51):
longest time.
What has changed aren't thoseinstinctual things seeking
inputs from others, social proof, a sense of pride in what we
purchase, a sense of desire toconsume and acquire.
What has changed is the scaleand the pace at which we humans
(11:14):
do those behaviors.
Rich (11:16):
Do you are there?
Is there a retailer or a brandor brands out there that you
think do it really well?
Margaret (11:23):
I'll point to two in very different categories.
The first I'll point to issticking with the apparel
example Burberry.
Burberry is a reallyinteresting example.
It's a heritage brand that gosh, perhaps more than a decade ago
, struggled a little becausetheir product had become almost
(11:44):
too mass and too popularized anda certain society was wearing
the print and their behaviorwasn't entirely socially
acceptable and that compromisedthat brand and they brought in a
new creative director,christopher Bailey.
He revisited the product, sothe product changed.
They scaled down the famousplaid print.
(12:05):
They also introducedsignificant innovation in their
supply chain and indeed I thinkthey were one of the first to
sell directly from the runway.
So a brand that's characterizedby heritage, renewal, going
through obstacles, not a perfectlinear journey, but also
continuous innovation.
(12:26):
A second one, also in retail,but a very different category
and a very different customerbase, is CVS, the corner
drugstore, if you will.
And I appreciate what CVS isdoing because almost a decade
ago now they came out with abrand purpose which is helping
people on a path to betterhealth.
(12:48):
Now they decided that brandpurpose was incongruent with
selling tobaccos in the store,so they removed tobacco at many
billions of dollars lost to thebottom line, at least initially.
What I appreciate about whatthey're doing is they put their
actions behind the purpose.
(13:09):
Fast forward a number of years.
They realized, particularly forwomen, there was a lot of
pressure on young women to looka certain way and the
realization is a lot of consumerpackaging and beauty is
retouched images.
So they came up with a beautymark.
Again.
(13:29):
In that case it wasn'ttobacco-reduced illnesses that
was compromising their customer,but mental health.
And now there is a beauty mark.
So you will know if you'repurchasing a beauty product at
CVS, if indeed that image hasbeen retouched.
And they continue to innovatearound their purpose.
(13:49):
Most interestingly, I thinkfrom a commercial standpoint
because we're all thinking asbusiness people here that
sticking with their purpose,putting their actions behind
them, arguably set them up forthe acquisition of Aetna and now
, of course, cvs.
Aetna is a behemoth inhealthcare more broadly, not
(14:09):
just in the retail.
So I admire Burberry for itsability to transform and
innovate.
I admire CVS as a retailer forits ability to articulate a
purpose and bring it to life andcommercialize it to great
success.
Rich (14:26):
Look back over the course of your career.
Is there a single innovationthat you think has had the
greatest impact on consumerbehavior?
And then I'll give you a parttwo.
If you look out five or 10years, what innovation do you
think is going to have the mostdramatic impact on retail and on
consumer behavior?
Margaret (14:44):
I think the innovation that has had the most impact,
certainly in my career, in mylifetime, has been mobile, for
all the reasons that you asretail experts know so well the
ability to research, product,the ability to price, compare in
store, the ability to, anytime,anywhere, consummate a retail
(15:07):
transaction.
The ability to do all thosethings I talked about in the
beginning, whether it is seekinginput from peers or others you
value, or influencers, as we maysay.
Real time when making apurchase, to the ability for
that social proof to put yourpicture up on Instagram.
So mobile certainly is powerfulfrom an innovation.
(15:31):
That's recent history, rich, Iknow you are a historian, so
you'll go further back in yourown analysis In terms of shining
up the crystal ball and intothe future.
I think it's probablysurrounding community and how we
might think of our use ofproduct and service in a shared
(15:56):
economy type context.
We're seeing early thinkingaround this.
Certainly, by definition, uberis that right.
How many of us don't own a car?
I do not own a car but I travelvia Uber.
So many other models Airbnb inthe accommodation space.
(16:17):
I think looking at and you andI are both parents, rich,
looking at our children'sbehavior that's a lot more
communal and how they sharethings.
My sons, for example, not onlyshare clothing among themselves
but we have a shared closet thatthe children come and their
friends and schoolmates.
Extrapolating that idea ofcommunity, with all the benefits
(16:42):
around sustainability thataccrue to that, I think of
interesting implications acrossdifferent product and service
categories as they relate toretail, and some I cannot
envisage today.
But I can anticipate thatgenetic desire that we all have
to form community coming to lifein different ways in retail.
Gautham (17:06):
Margaret, can I jump in here?
You said something that's closeto my heart, which is
sustainability, and, as you area marketer through and through,
I'm a marketing professor.
What is the role of marketingin sustainability?
You know, oftentimes,especially in today's media, you
get a lot of negative pressaround greenwashing and so forth
(17:29):
, but at the same time,marketers do have the important
role of nudging consumers tobehave sustainably.
Talking about sustainableproducts, where do you see
marketing's role evolve when itcomes to society and
sustainability in general?
Margaret (17:45):
I believe marketing and marketers have a very
important role to play insustainability.
Just a couple of facets of that.
Number one is articulating andcommunicating an organization's
point of view as it relates tosustainability and making that
(18:06):
message relatable and understoodby all stakeholders.
So it's that classic.
There's the communicationscomponent of it.
There is also the persuasioncomponent.
As marketers, one of our mostpowerful capacities, when we do
(18:27):
it well, is we persuade peopleto act, sometimes act
differently, and that in turn,if you nest these ideas,
requires storytelling, tellingpeople why they should, and
persuading people at a levelthat is not about the commercial
(18:48):
agenda of the company butrather what's in it for them.
So there's the persuasioncomponent helping people to be
inspired to use products thatare more sustainable.
And I'll offer just a thirdexample Marketers can employ
their skillset to partner withproduct development within their
(19:10):
own organizations to captureconsumer insights and help
colleagues in the product areain new product development, in
the creation from the get-go.
So we've talked about thecommunications, we've talked
about the storytelling, butgetting the insight and helping
product development from scratchto build products that are
(19:32):
indeed more sustainable.
Gautham (19:34):
That's a wonderful answer.
Thank you very much, appreciateit.
Can I ask you one more question?
Lately we've been having thesediscussions around brand
marketing versus performancemarketing right, and how they
both interplay with each otherand so forth.
Now you have an illustriouscareer as a marketer, you work
with agencies and so forth.
(19:54):
How do you see these?
I personally believe theyinterplay right.
They play at different levelsof the customer journey and they
kind of work together.
What's your perspective on howthese play together, the
relative emphasis on both that acompany should have?
Margaret (20:14):
I share your thesis that they are complementary and
I think a lot of the commonconversation right now is
creating a false dichotomy.
That's not particularly helpfulto marketers.
It may be helpful to agenciesor sellers of media based on
their agendas.
(20:37):
A very pragmatic level Researchsuggests that in many different
categories your addressablemarket only 90% or more than 90%
of people are not in the marketfor your product or service
today.
They're not buying a new coator they're not buying a new
(21:01):
software system or retail systemfor your store.
So what that essentially meansis a lot of the performance
marketing, the click, if youwill, related marketing.
There's some wastage with that.
Want your retail system, ifyou're B2B, or your coat, if
(21:22):
you're B2C, to be purchased byall of your addressable market.
You need to build a brand suchthat when that consumer or B2B
buyer is in market because we'vesaid 90% of the people are not
in market today when thatconsumer is in market to buy
(21:43):
your product, that you arediscoverable.
And that means the brand has towork hard for you to create
familiarity, to create the rightperceptions, to create, from a
brain perspective, memorystructures such that you come to
mind.
So we play with Burberry, forexample, depending on your
(22:05):
budget, but for a certain targetmarket.
Burberry wants to come to mindwhen someone wants to buy that
coat.
And that's not just performancemarketing, that's having built
a brand with certainassociations that render it
discoverable and top of mind.
And then the performance marketcomes into play in all the kind
(22:26):
of more obvious examples offacilitating that purchase
transaction.
But it's that complementaritythat's important and I fear our
short-term orientation and ourinsatiable quest for immediate
gratification lends us to likeperformance marketing.
It's so measurable, we canmeasure clicks, it's so near
(22:50):
term, it's so gratifying.
The risk is we over index onthat and we forget the big
picture which is around brandbuilding which arguably is a bit
squishier.
Although there are manyframeworks for measuring, it's
much more debatable.
I believe for my career youneed both and if I had to choose
(23:12):
I would put the emphasis on thebrand building because I think
a brand essentially the promiseyou're making to your market
that lends itself to virality.
Back to my thesis in thebeginning that we're social in
the end of the day and we buypartly on recommendation, partly
on social proof for otherfactors, particularly in retail.
Rich (23:35):
So, as you go through that , let me bring it back to you
and your career.
How have you had to evolve yourskill set over the course of
your career, as the consumer hasevolved?
Margaret (23:50):
In many ways.
There are tactical learningsthat I've had to develop and you
can almost plot those over my20 plus years of a career along
the axis of the evolution oftechnology.
So I spent a number of yearsworking with Siebel Systems, the
manufacturer of customerrelationship management software
(24:12):
, or CRM.
They essentially created thatCRM category, so learning about
CRM.
Then I worked with a digitalagency and learned personally
the social media tools fromTwitter to LinkedIn and beyond,
and now I find myself dippinginto AI and learning those
(24:32):
technologies.
So there are tactics, if youwill, channels, tools that I've
had to master, tools that I'vehad to master both personally
and extended to my teams.
But there are other qualitiesthat I think are actually more
important, more meta qualitiesthat I've had to learn.
I've had to learn to be a muchbetter, more perceptive listener
(24:58):
to my consumers, and thattranscends tools to asking
smarter, better questions,unlearning some assumptions that
I may have held dear andchallenging my assumptions.
I've also had to learn, as I'veevolved in my career as a
marketer, how to build teamsthat extend and scale my
(25:22):
capabilities and complement mycapabilities.
So those are soft skills,funnily enough, and I think
those meta skills that I've hadto learn and continue to need to
learn are so very important asa complement to the tactical
(25:42):
skills of learning how to be aninfluencer on Twitter, where I
was a top CMO on Twitter whenthat was a dominant platform, to
now holding that responsibilityon LinkedIn and now hopefully
extending that into AI.
So it's that balance of themindset with the tactic.
(26:17):
There are many and I think we'respeaking somewhat today in the
context of education and I thinkvery highly of education.
It's been my pathway, but Ithink there are some gaps.
(26:37):
But I think there are some gapsand I think we overrate loosely
defined intelligence and IQ andwe underrate the ability to
extend our minds, and what Imean by that is people's
capacity to offload cognitivetasks to physical environments,
to use gesture in communication,for example, to engage with
(26:59):
people and offload tasks to teammembers, to be able to borrow
other people's minds, to be ableto use environments to enhance
our cognitive capacity as amarketer.
When I create events, I thinkabout the physical environment,
rearranging the furniture, ifyou will.
I think about bringing physicalartifacts into a room to help
(27:23):
people's understanding ofabstract concepts.
So I think we are very narrownarrow in how we evaluate people
and we rely too much on classicstandardized testing and IQ and
we really need to expand theaperture of the skills that we
(27:45):
ascribe value to as a societyand as leaders, as educators and
as managers, and really becomemore sophisticated in that
assessment.
So the short answer is theskill we undervalue is extending
our minds a failure that youhad and what you learned from it
(28:12):
.
Rich (28:12):
But I'm going to pivot a little to that, because you and
I both share having a um, achild in college, um, and you
have a son in high school.
What's the single greatestthing you've learned from your
kids?
Margaret (28:25):
So much learning, I think.
Humility, because I think beingopen to their feedback and
teaching me new things.
I'll give you a quick examplemy son last night.
He's working on a project.
He recently published a book.
He is a type one diabetic andhe published a book on his
(28:48):
disease state children's bookand he is tremendously committed
to getting that book intolibraries and public schools
because he wants other familiesto know the signs of that
disease.
My family did not know thosesigns and he almost passed.
We were very late at diagnosinghis condition and the story that
(29:09):
I'm sharing I'm sharing thestory because we were
brainstorming and he was askingmy input on how to achieve his
vision and I talked about whodid I know because I'm very
relational and very networkoriented and I threw my hands up
in the air and said, oh my gosh, I know no one in that universe
.
And he said mom, you have becomeso corrupted by corporate that
(29:35):
you feel you need to know people.
We can just do it.
I can just buy the books, sendthe books, mail the envelopes,
stuff the envelopes.
And I thought, oh my gosh,that's very humbling.
But also he's right, I havebecome quite corporate and he is
much more startup mode.
So you know he's scrappy and itwas a real wake up call for me
(29:59):
because I had always pridedmyself in being scrappy, being
immigrant, being kind of ahustler, and he just brought
that little blind spot to myattention that I'd become a
little corporate.
So, humility, if you're willing, you have to be willing to have
an open mind, though.
Rich, to learn from our kids,we have to be humble and
recognize they can teach us, andthe order of operations isn't
(30:23):
always us teaching.
Rich (30:24):
A lot of our target audience is going to be those
that are coming up after us, andI want to take that clip and
share it with my leadership teamand with other senior leaders,
because it's interesting whenyou get into these generational
arguments.
I think that's a masterclassanswer on why every future
generation has something greatto contribute if we take the
(30:45):
time to listen and absorb.
I have a couple more questionsthat I want to get to rapid fire
.
Have you had a passion projectin the past or do you have one
currently that you've beenexcited about, and how has that
helped you in both your personallife and your career?
Margaret (31:07):
Well, thank you for the question.
I am the founder of HashtagWearing Irish.
I am the founder of HashtagWearing Irish and that is a
project that aspires to tell theuntold story of Irish designers
.
The insight behind that theshort version is almost a decade
ago, I attended a lot ofconferences, met wonderful
(31:29):
people like Rich, and at thetime, I was wearing fashions
designed by Irish creators and Iwould get the occasional
compliment, and the insight wasthat Ireland is brimming with
deeply talented fashiondesigners, but nobody can name
an Irish designer.
So I personally set aboutcreating an Instagram channel
(31:52):
with that hashtag, personallywearing the products and
showcasing them.
But also I hosted a significantevent in 2019 in New York City
where, with the support of verygenerous sponsors and advisors
like Rich, brought 10 fashiondesigners who were the winners
of a competition to the UnitedStates to show their wares, meet
(32:15):
American consumers and doreal-time intelligence gathering
around the market, and it was awonderful experience.
I took a lot of pride in doingthat.
I learned so much.
It was very much a startup-yeffort on my part.
I learned about partnerships, Ilearned what I didn't know and
(32:38):
I also learned about difference.
These creators have verydifferent mental models to mine.
They're wired differently,challenging but also very
constructive, in the sense thatI'm quite linear in my thinking
and very organized, and myvalues are very clearly
commercial in that context,whereas these professionals
(33:02):
they're creatives.
So very different mindset.
How that's helped me?
Myriad ways, but one of themost obvious is when I worked at
a creative agency most recently, I had a much deeper
appreciation for my creativecolleagues.
Different mental models andworking with designers taught me
to appreciate that differenceand I've learned so much from it
(33:23):
.
Rich (33:23):
You know, I have to ask who are you wearing?
Margaret (33:26):
Well, thank you.
Oh my gosh, I am wearing LennonCourtney, wonderful Irish
designer.
I invite you to check out theircollection.
It's available at KilkennyDesign and fun items.
Many different options atdifferent price points.
Rich (33:44):
Outstanding.
All right, I'm going to headinto the rapid round.
So three or four questions.
I'm going to start with aslight curve, but a comfort food
.
End of a tough day.
What is that comfort food thatyou hope is waiting for you at
the end of it?
Margaret (33:57):
Can I be highly expected and say I'm an Irish
girl, so I'm going to pickpotatoes.
Rich (34:04):
I will tell you that mashed potatoes is on the list
and we had a long conversationabout that last night.
So you absolutely can.
If you could automate one partof your life, what would it be?
Margaret (34:17):
Everything administrative Administration,
not my strengths, so I'mwelcoming AI.
Rich (34:23):
Do you have a theme song?
Margaret (34:26):
I like ABBA, so was it ABBA that had Take a Chance on
Me.
Rich (34:31):
Oh, absolutely Okay.
And the follow-up was going tobe which song?
Margaret (34:34):
Yeah, take a Chance on Me, because I think that I love
the rhythm of it, but also Ilike the spirit of that.
People have taken chances on meand I love when I have the
opportunity to do the same forother people.
Rich (34:47):
Oh, I really should just end it there, but I had one more
that I was going to ask what'sthe most unusual item that
you've bought or sold?
Margaret (34:56):
You know, growing up on a farm, there are lots of
unusual items that people buy orsell.
So when I was a child we raisedchickens so I was responsible
for cleaning and selling theeggs.
Rich (35:12):
I like that.
So you were an entrepreneurfrom a very young age.
Margaret (35:15):
I guess.
So, although I don't givemyself credit for that, and in
fact, I will have to have my sonlisten to this episode and tell
him that I was entrepreneurial.
I just have to reignite thatinsight that you just shared,
rich.
Rich (35:30):
Absolutely amazing.
Really appreciate the time andtons of lessons.
I know we probably have a longsheet of takeaways from this,
margaret.
Wonderful to have you shareyour experiences and your
knowledge and wisdom with thosethat are up and coming and,
quite frankly, anybody can takea lesson away from this.
(35:53):
So thank you very much.
Margaret (35:55):
My pleasure, truly an honor.
You, and best of luck with thenew season.
Gautham (35:59):
Well, wow, that was such a powerful conversation.
Look, I was fascinated from thestory of how she got to the US
all the way to how marketing ischanging, and I must say what
stood out to me we never hadthose questions about brand
performance, brand versusperformance or sustainable
(36:22):
marketing in any of our preparedquestions for her.
Yet the way she answered it,how thoughtfully she segmented
the questions into differentparts and came up with eloquent
answers to me, and she waswilling to take a stance on
these hard questions that arecurrent today in marketing.
(36:43):
I think they are a great lessonfor our students on how to
speak effectively andefficiently while communicating
on very, very difficult issues,and I must say I learned so much
from the conversation, just asa communicator and as a marketer
.
Rich (37:02):
Yeah, gautam, I know what you mean.
You know I was excited for youguys to meet her.
I had that kind of anticipationbecause I've heard her speak in
the past and I've had thefortune of having several
conversations with her, and asmuch as we're gearing this
primarily towards those who arestarting off or at the early
stages of retail, or students, Ireally think she's a natural
(37:24):
teacher.
Paula (37:25):
I agree there is something for everyone in this
episode.
I feel like that will be atagline of ours.
Oh, she was just great and justseeing just a wonderful woman
talking about her children, youknow humbling her.
And I found her comment aboutCVS to be really on point that I
hadn't thought about.
When I think CVS, I think thelong receipts.
(37:45):
She has a point right theirbrand purpose of helping people.
Rich (37:51):
That was probably my best takeaway from this 30-minute
talk with her at the same time,learn from them, and you can
tell that she not only has agreat admiration for her kids,
(38:17):
but just for that generation intotal and what she can learn
from them, and I think that issomething that we have to
absolutely embrace.
Gautham (38:26):
She is an immigrant.
Right, when you come across asan immigrant, you are an
entrepreneur in many which ways,and she talks about how her
child or children made thecomment that, oh, you've been
taken over by Incorporate andgoing back to the
entrepreneurial roots.
I found that fascinating, andthe fact that she was
representing Irish clothing wasalso entrepreneurial.
(38:50):
Sometimes you forget where youcome from and you have these
unique movements which get youin touch with your roots in some
ways, and I thought that was avery nice story that wove
through the whole conversationyeah, gotham, I would agree, and
you know I was thinking back towhen she first released wearing
irish, and it was a.
Rich (39:11):
It was a passion project for her.
She was going into ground.
That was a little bit moreunfamiliar and I'd known her for
a couple of years.
I had run into her at industryevents that, attended her
presentations, taking copiousnotes, but at that moment it was
a relatable moment for usbecause I had been in retail for
(39:32):
many years and in the apparelindustry for a large segment of
it, and so we were able toconnect on that and we've
remained connected ever since,which is, paul, as you pointed
out, the whole reason that we'redoing this, and so I'm excited
that you guys enjoyed it.
I know that our listeners willenjoy this and getting to know
her and the guests that you guyshave invited into the show as
(39:55):
we continue to go down this pathtogether.
Yeah.
I'm so excited to be here with Rich and Gautham, Rich,
Gautham.
How are you guys feeling today?
Gautham (00:07):
Super pumped to be here .
Thank you, Paula.
Look forward to thisconversation.
Rich (00:11):
Nothing like talking about retail with you guys to get the
blood flowing right.
Paula (00:15):
For me, it's nothing like being relatable with you guys.
Rich (00:20):
Oh look how you worked that in.
That is awesome.
Paula (00:24):
So I'm excited about this one.
Margaret Malloy just afantastic woman, linkedin top
voices, brand and consumerstrategist powerhouse of a woman
which I love.
Rich (00:41):
Do you know how sometimes you have mentors that you just
you follow, you learn from, butyou've never kind of officially
designated that relationship.
I was at the CMO club and sawher speak on branding,
Absolutely.
I mean.
I probably took about fivepages of notes she's one of.
(01:02):
She's a branding expert and Ilove learning from her.
Gautham (01:05):
Yeah, I'm excited for this as a marketing professor,
but I did snoop on her LinkedInprofile and the first thing
right, marketing is in my DNA isone of her first statements
that she says there, so I lookforward to asking her a couple
of questions on the state ofmarketing and as an immigrant.
It's really good to see anotherimmigrant on the show and she
(01:30):
states that as an unexpectedstatement from a farmer's
daughter and an immigrant, soI'm curious to see where she
starts and how she got to whereshe is.
Paula (01:39):
So shall we get into it?
I am excited, so let's justdive in.
Margaret Molloy has carved anotable career in brand
management and marketing, mostprominently serving as the
global CMO for Siegel and Galefor over a decade.
Under her leadership, thebranding agency flourished as
she hosted hundreds of CMOs andthousands of guests worldwide at
various industry conferencesand private events.
(02:01):
Margaret also shares herinsights and the experiences of
other marketing leaders on herpodcast called how CMOs Commit,
an esteemed LinkedIn top voiceand the Drum B2B Marketer of the
Year.
She is also recognized as aFellow of the Marketing Society.
Educated at Harvard BusinessSchool and the University of
Ulster, with studies at LaUniversidad de Balotoli, spain,
(02:25):
margaret's academic backgroundis as diverse as her
professional experience.
She balances her high-profilecareer in Manhattan with being a
mom to two teenage boys.
First of all, hats off to her.
A native of Ireland, margaret'sinternational perspective and
expertise makes her asought-after advisor and speaker
in the global marketingcommunity.
Please join us in welcomingMargaret Molloy.
Margaret (02:49):
My pleasure.
It's an honor.
Thank you for inviting me,Paula.
Rich (02:54):
Our audience is going to have access to your background.
You've got a very, veryimpressive bio and list of
credentials.
I want to start a little bitdifferently.
If you think back over thecourse of your career and even
life, are there three decisionsthat you've made or experiences
(03:14):
that you have, or three pivotalmoments that you think have led
you to where you are today?
Margaret (03:20):
So many Rich.
And thank you for the questionReflecting real time.
So many Rich and thank you forthe question Reflecting real
(03:49):
time.
I believe the first one was mydecision to go to college.
I all the benefits that accrueto an individual who has the
privilege of getting a highereducation, so that was pivotal.
Number one, number two I'llstay on the education track.
Number two was the decision toget my MBA.
So I had been in the UnitedStates at that time for about
five or six years and I had theinsight that getting an MBA,
(04:14):
from a credential standpoint,would elevate my knowledge,
would also elevate my networkand to some degree, coming from
a modest school in Ireland, Ifelt the need for that American
credential.
So that was pivotal, if youwill, in giving me that stamp of
approval that is so relevant,particularly for an immigrant
(04:37):
carving out a career in theUnited States.
And the third decision, theoutcome of which is still to be
determined, was the decisionthis spring to leave my job and
explore new opportunities.
Rich (04:50):
So I've got to ask the decision to leave and to explore
new opportunities nervewracking, scary, exhilarating.
Margaret (04:59):
All of the above, Rich , and I think we'll put a pin on
it and come back to me and I'llhave better analysis of that.
But ultimately it came from analmost visceral sense that I had
something else in me and Ineeded to leave my full-time
(05:20):
commitment to explore that.
And I was very privileged towork with and for wonderful
people, wonderful colleagues.
But my sense was I needed toget out of that comfort zone,
much like I had done in the pastas an immigrant, much like
going back for higher education.
I needed to force thateducation upon myself and I'm
(05:42):
optimistic.
But yes, it's nerve wracking,it's taking an unfamiliar path
which for everyone, will relateto.
Doing something that'sunfamiliar can be challenging
and hopefully rewarding.
Rich (05:54):
So let me take you back to Ireland.
Before you made the decision togo to college, is this the path
you thought you would take, ordid you have something
completely different in mind?
Margaret (06:03):
In terms of marketing and professional services.
Yes, I think that is the path.
It aligns well with my skillset and it sort of eliminates
the need for me to developskills in gap areas.
For example, I am very poor atall things medical, all things.
Clinical.
(06:24):
No-transcript, more intuitive,but honestly I'm not surprised.
(07:18):
It feels right.
Rich (07:20):
You mentioned role models.
You've been a role model and amentor.
I would consider you a rolemodel.
You've had role models andmentors throughout your career.
Is there one in particular thatyou think of kind of quick
recall and what advice or whatguidance that person gave you?
Margaret (07:41):
So many because I think of role models almost like
an advisory board, and Iconsider you one of mine too
Rich Professionals withdifferent areas of expertise,
different lived experiences thatI can benefit from.
I often say I collect people,but not like trophies although I
(08:04):
do display them on LinkedInfrom time to time but more from
a place of pride and deepaffection for the people I
surround myself with.
In terms of answering yourquestion with an individual,
I'll reference my first gradeteacher, mrs Sheehan.
Mrs Sheehan was a very worldlysophisticated, educated woman,
(08:30):
very poised, and she was a rolemodel for me and a mentor, not
in the kind of sort oftraditional sense of that, but
more by observation.
She gave me something to aspireto and she also, like so many
good educators, saw some talentand did everything she could to
(08:50):
build my academic ability atthat age, but also fostering me
a love of public speaking.
She coached me outside ofschool in recitations and that
skill set has helped me as amarketer and a convener of
people and speaker.
So perhaps a crazy choice, buta first grade teacher is
probably my first formal mentor.
(09:22):
In some ways, consumer behaviorhas changed dramatically over
the course of my multi-decadecareer now, but in other ways it
stayed constant.
So the ways that have changedhave been well-documented.
Channels are more variable.
There is more product in everycategory than any of us needs,
(09:43):
more clutter, so the burden onbrands is to be more distinctive
, to rise above that clutter.
Consumer behavior is probablyalso scaled in different ways in
terms of sameness anddifference.
I believe since the beginning oftime, consumer behavior is and
(10:04):
has always been influenced bycommunity.
You ask your neighbor forreferrals.
Well, today our neighbor isn'tgeographically bound because of
the channels that are at ourdisposal, but that instinct of
seeking input from others.
I think that's actually stayedthe same.
So the behaviors that areevolved, seeking input from
(10:28):
others, the notion of socialproof very relevant in retail.
Let's take apparel as anexample.
Wearing a particular garment ismore than just covering our
bodies.
In many cases the purpose thatserves is to identify ourselves
as part of a certain society orhaving a particular taste.
So this idea of social proof,that's been around for the
(10:51):
longest time.
What has changed aren't thoseinstinctual things seeking
inputs from others, social proof, a sense of pride in what we
purchase, a sense of desire toconsume and acquire.
What has changed is the scaleand the pace at which we humans
(11:14):
do those behaviors.
Rich (11:16):
Do you are there?
Is there a retailer or a brandor brands out there that you
think do it really well?
Margaret (11:23):
I'll point to two in very different categories.
The first I'll point to issticking with the apparel
example Burberry.
Burberry is a reallyinteresting example.
It's a heritage brand that gosh, perhaps more than a decade ago
, struggled a little becausetheir product had become almost
(11:44):
too mass and too popularized anda certain society was wearing
the print and their behaviorwasn't entirely socially
acceptable and that compromisedthat brand and they brought in a
new creative director,christopher Bailey.
He revisited the product, sothe product changed.
They scaled down the famousplaid print.
(12:05):
They also introducedsignificant innovation in their
supply chain and indeed I thinkthey were one of the first to
sell directly from the runway.
So a brand that's characterizedby heritage, renewal, going
through obstacles, not a perfectlinear journey, but also
continuous innovation.
(12:26):
A second one, also in retail,but a very different category
and a very different customerbase, is CVS, the corner
drugstore, if you will.
And I appreciate what CVS isdoing because almost a decade
ago now they came out with abrand purpose which is helping
people on a path to betterhealth.
(12:48):
Now they decided that brandpurpose was incongruent with
selling tobaccos in the store,so they removed tobacco at many
billions of dollars lost to thebottom line, at least initially.
What I appreciate about whatthey're doing is they put their
actions behind the purpose.
(13:09):
Fast forward a number of years.
They realized, particularly forwomen, there was a lot of
pressure on young women to looka certain way and the
realization is a lot of consumerpackaging and beauty is
retouched images.
So they came up with a beautymark.
Again.
(13:29):
In that case it wasn'ttobacco-reduced illnesses that
was compromising their customer,but mental health.
And now there is a beauty mark.
So you will know if you'repurchasing a beauty product at
CVS, if indeed that image hasbeen retouched.
And they continue to innovatearound their purpose.
(13:49):
Most interestingly, I thinkfrom a commercial standpoint
because we're all thinking asbusiness people here that
sticking with their purpose,putting their actions behind
them, arguably set them up forthe acquisition of Aetna and now
, of course, cvs.
Aetna is a behemoth inhealthcare more broadly, not
(14:09):
just in the retail.
So I admire Burberry for itsability to transform and
innovate.
I admire CVS as a retailer forits ability to articulate a
purpose and bring it to life andcommercialize it to great
success.
Rich (14:26):
Look back over the course of your career.
Is there a single innovationthat you think has had the
greatest impact on consumerbehavior?
And then I'll give you a parttwo.
If you look out five or 10years, what innovation do you
think is going to have the mostdramatic impact on retail and on
consumer behavior?
Margaret (14:44):
I think the innovation that has had the most impact,
certainly in my career, in mylifetime, has been mobile, for
all the reasons that you asretail experts know so well the
ability to research, product,the ability to price, compare in
store, the ability to, anytime,anywhere, consummate a retail
(15:07):
transaction.
The ability to do all thosethings I talked about in the
beginning, whether it is seekinginput from peers or others you
value, or influencers, as we maysay.
Real time when making apurchase, to the ability for
that social proof to put yourpicture up on Instagram.
So mobile certainly is powerfulfrom an innovation.
(15:31):
That's recent history, rich, Iknow you are a historian, so
you'll go further back in yourown analysis In terms of shining
up the crystal ball and intothe future.
I think it's probablysurrounding community and how we
might think of our use ofproduct and service in a shared
(15:56):
economy type context.
We're seeing early thinkingaround this.
Certainly, by definition, uberis that right.
How many of us don't own a car?
I do not own a car but I travelvia Uber.
So many other models Airbnb inthe accommodation space.
(16:17):
I think looking at and you andI are both parents, rich,
looking at our children'sbehavior that's a lot more
communal and how they sharethings.
My sons, for example, not onlyshare clothing among themselves
but we have a shared closet thatthe children come and their
friends and schoolmates.
Extrapolating that idea ofcommunity, with all the benefits
(16:42):
around sustainability thataccrue to that, I think of
interesting implications acrossdifferent product and service
categories as they relate toretail, and some I cannot
envisage today.
But I can anticipate thatgenetic desire that we all have
to form community coming to lifein different ways in retail.
Gautham (17:06):
Margaret, can I jump in here?
You said something that's closeto my heart, which is
sustainability, and, as you area marketer through and through,
I'm a marketing professor.
What is the role of marketingin sustainability?
You know, oftentimes,especially in today's media, you
get a lot of negative pressaround greenwashing and so forth
(17:29):
, but at the same time,marketers do have the important
role of nudging consumers tobehave sustainably.
Talking about sustainableproducts, where do you see
marketing's role evolve when itcomes to society and
sustainability in general?
Margaret (17:45):
I believe marketing and marketers have a very
important role to play insustainability.
Just a couple of facets of that.
Number one is articulating andcommunicating an organization's
point of view as it relates tosustainability and making that
(18:06):
message relatable and understoodby all stakeholders.
So it's that classic.
There's the communicationscomponent of it.
There is also the persuasioncomponent.
As marketers, one of our mostpowerful capacities, when we do
(18:27):
it well, is we persuade peopleto act, sometimes act
differently, and that in turn,if you nest these ideas,
requires storytelling, tellingpeople why they should, and
persuading people at a levelthat is not about the commercial
(18:48):
agenda of the company butrather what's in it for them.
So there's the persuasioncomponent helping people to be
inspired to use products thatare more sustainable.
And I'll offer just a thirdexample Marketers can employ
their skillset to partner withproduct development within their
(19:10):
own organizations to captureconsumer insights and help
colleagues in the product areain new product development, in
the creation from the get-go.
So we've talked about thecommunications, we've talked
about the storytelling, butgetting the insight and helping
product development from scratchto build products that are
(19:32):
indeed more sustainable.
Gautham (19:34):
That's a wonderful answer.
Thank you very much, appreciateit.
Can I ask you one more question?
Lately we've been having thesediscussions around brand
marketing versus performancemarketing right, and how they
both interplay with each otherand so forth.
Now you have an illustriouscareer as a marketer, you work
with agencies and so forth.
(19:54):
How do you see these?
I personally believe theyinterplay right.
They play at different levelsof the customer journey and they
kind of work together.
What's your perspective on howthese play together, the
relative emphasis on both that acompany should have?
Margaret (20:14):
I share your thesis that they are complementary and
I think a lot of the commonconversation right now is
creating a false dichotomy.
That's not particularly helpfulto marketers.
It may be helpful to agenciesor sellers of media based on
their agendas.
(20:37):
A very pragmatic level Researchsuggests that in many different
categories your addressablemarket only 90% or more than 90%
of people are not in the marketfor your product or service
today.
They're not buying a new coator they're not buying a new
(21:01):
software system or retail systemfor your store.
So what that essentially meansis a lot of the performance
marketing, the click, if youwill, related marketing.
There's some wastage with that.
Want your retail system, ifyou're B2B, or your coat, if
(21:22):
you're B2C, to be purchased byall of your addressable market.
You need to build a brand suchthat when that consumer or B2B
buyer is in market because we'vesaid 90% of the people are not
in market today when thatconsumer is in market to buy
(21:43):
your product, that you arediscoverable.
And that means the brand has towork hard for you to create
familiarity, to create the rightperceptions, to create, from a
brain perspective, memorystructures such that you come to
mind.
So we play with Burberry, forexample, depending on your
(22:05):
budget, but for a certain targetmarket.
Burberry wants to come to mindwhen someone wants to buy that
coat.
And that's not just performancemarketing, that's having built
a brand with certainassociations that render it
discoverable and top of mind.
And then the performance marketcomes into play in all the kind
(22:26):
of more obvious examples offacilitating that purchase
transaction.
But it's that complementaritythat's important and I fear our
short-term orientation and ourinsatiable quest for immediate
gratification lends us to likeperformance marketing.
It's so measurable, we canmeasure clicks, it's so near
(22:50):
term, it's so gratifying.
The risk is we over index onthat and we forget the big
picture which is around brandbuilding which arguably is a bit
squishier.
Although there are manyframeworks for measuring, it's
much more debatable.
I believe for my career youneed both and if I had to choose
(23:12):
I would put the emphasis on thebrand building because I think
a brand essentially the promiseyou're making to your market
that lends itself to virality.
Back to my thesis in thebeginning that we're social in
the end of the day and we buypartly on recommendation, partly
on social proof for otherfactors, particularly in retail.
Rich (23:35):
So, as you go through that , let me bring it back to you
and your career.
How have you had to evolve yourskill set over the course of
your career, as the consumer hasevolved?
Margaret (23:50):
In many ways.
There are tactical learningsthat I've had to develop and you
can almost plot those over my20 plus years of a career along
the axis of the evolution oftechnology.
So I spent a number of yearsworking with Siebel Systems, the
manufacturer of customerrelationship management software
(24:12):
, or CRM.
They essentially created thatCRM category, so learning about
CRM.
Then I worked with a digitalagency and learned personally
the social media tools fromTwitter to LinkedIn and beyond,
and now I find myself dippinginto AI and learning those
(24:32):
technologies.
So there are tactics, if youwill, channels, tools that I've
had to master, tools that I'vehad to master both personally
and extended to my teams.
But there are other qualitiesthat I think are actually more
important, more meta qualitiesthat I've had to learn.
I've had to learn to be a muchbetter, more perceptive listener
(24:58):
to my consumers, and thattranscends tools to asking
smarter, better questions,unlearning some assumptions that
I may have held dear andchallenging my assumptions.
I've also had to learn, as I'veevolved in my career as a
marketer, how to build teamsthat extend and scale my
(25:22):
capabilities and complement mycapabilities.
So those are soft skills,funnily enough, and I think
those meta skills that I've hadto learn and continue to need to
learn are so very important asa complement to the tactical
(25:42):
skills of learning how to be aninfluencer on Twitter, where I
was a top CMO on Twitter whenthat was a dominant platform, to
now holding that responsibilityon LinkedIn and now hopefully
extending that into AI.
So it's that balance of themindset with the tactic.
(26:17):
There are many and I think we'respeaking somewhat today in the
context of education and I thinkvery highly of education.
It's been my pathway, but Ithink there are some gaps.
(26:37):
But I think there are some gapsand I think we overrate loosely
defined intelligence and IQ andwe underrate the ability to
extend our minds, and what Imean by that is people's
capacity to offload cognitivetasks to physical environments,
to use gesture in communication,for example, to engage with
(26:59):
people and offload tasks to teammembers, to be able to borrow
other people's minds, to be ableto use environments to enhance
our cognitive capacity as amarketer.
When I create events, I thinkabout the physical environment,
rearranging the furniture, ifyou will.
I think about bringing physicalartifacts into a room to help
(27:23):
people's understanding ofabstract concepts.
So I think we are very narrownarrow in how we evaluate people
and we rely too much on classicstandardized testing and IQ and
we really need to expand theaperture of the skills that we
(27:45):
ascribe value to as a societyand as leaders, as educators and
as managers, and really becomemore sophisticated in that
assessment.
So the short answer is theskill we undervalue is extending
our minds a failure that youhad and what you learned from it
(28:12):
.
Rich (28:12):
But I'm going to pivot a little to that, because you and
I both share having a um, achild in college, um, and you
have a son in high school.
What's the single greatestthing you've learned from your
kids?
Margaret (28:25):
So much learning, I think.
Humility, because I think beingopen to their feedback and
teaching me new things.
I'll give you a quick examplemy son last night.
He's working on a project.
He recently published a book.
He is a type one diabetic andhe published a book on his
(28:48):
disease state children's bookand he is tremendously committed
to getting that book intolibraries and public schools
because he wants other familiesto know the signs of that
disease.
My family did not know thosesigns and he almost passed.
We were very late at diagnosinghis condition and the story that
(29:09):
I'm sharing I'm sharing thestory because we were
brainstorming and he was askingmy input on how to achieve his
vision and I talked about whodid I know because I'm very
relational and very networkoriented and I threw my hands up
in the air and said, oh my gosh, I know no one in that universe
.
And he said mom, you have becomeso corrupted by corporate that
(29:35):
you feel you need to know people.
We can just do it.
I can just buy the books, sendthe books, mail the envelopes,
stuff the envelopes.
And I thought, oh my gosh,that's very humbling.
But also he's right, I havebecome quite corporate and he is
much more startup mode.
So you know he's scrappy and itwas a real wake up call for me
(29:59):
because I had always pridedmyself in being scrappy, being
immigrant, being kind of ahustler, and he just brought
that little blind spot to myattention that I'd become a
little corporate.
So, humility, if you're willing, you have to be willing to have
an open mind, though.
Rich, to learn from our kids,we have to be humble and
recognize they can teach us, andthe order of operations isn't
(30:23):
always us teaching.
Rich (30:24):
A lot of our target audience is going to be those
that are coming up after us, andI want to take that clip and
share it with my leadership teamand with other senior leaders,
because it's interesting whenyou get into these generational
arguments.
I think that's a masterclassanswer on why every future
generation has something greatto contribute if we take the
(30:45):
time to listen and absorb.
I have a couple more questionsthat I want to get to rapid fire
.
Have you had a passion projectin the past or do you have one
currently that you've beenexcited about, and how has that
helped you in both your personallife and your career?
Margaret (31:07):
Well, thank you for the question.
I am the founder of HashtagWearing Irish.
I am the founder of HashtagWearing Irish and that is a
project that aspires to tell theuntold story of Irish designers
.
The insight behind that theshort version is almost a decade
ago, I attended a lot ofconferences, met wonderful
(31:29):
people like Rich, and at thetime, I was wearing fashions
designed by Irish creators and Iwould get the occasional
compliment, and the insight wasthat Ireland is brimming with
deeply talented fashiondesigners, but nobody can name
an Irish designer.
So I personally set aboutcreating an Instagram channel
(31:52):
with that hashtag, personallywearing the products and
showcasing them.
But also I hosted a significantevent in 2019 in New York City
where, with the support of verygenerous sponsors and advisors
like Rich, brought 10 fashiondesigners who were the winners
of a competition to the UnitedStates to show their wares, meet
(32:15):
American consumers and doreal-time intelligence gathering
around the market, and it was awonderful experience.
I took a lot of pride in doingthat.
I learned so much.
It was very much a startup-yeffort on my part.
I learned about partnerships, Ilearned what I didn't know and
(32:38):
I also learned about difference.
These creators have verydifferent mental models to mine.
They're wired differently,challenging but also very
constructive, in the sense thatI'm quite linear in my thinking
and very organized, and myvalues are very clearly
commercial in that context,whereas these professionals
(33:02):
they're creatives.
So very different mindset.
How that's helped me?
Myriad ways, but one of themost obvious is when I worked at
a creative agency most recently, I had a much deeper
appreciation for my creativecolleagues.
Different mental models andworking with designers taught me
to appreciate that differenceand I've learned so much from it
(33:23):
.
Rich (33:23):
You know, I have to ask who are you wearing?
Margaret (33:26):
Well, thank you.
Oh my gosh, I am wearing LennonCourtney, wonderful Irish
designer.
I invite you to check out theircollection.
It's available at KilkennyDesign and fun items.
Many different options atdifferent price points.
Rich (33:44):
Outstanding.
All right, I'm going to headinto the rapid round.
So three or four questions.
I'm going to start with aslight curve, but a comfort food
.
End of a tough day.
What is that comfort food thatyou hope is waiting for you at
the end of it?
Margaret (33:57):
Can I be highly expected and say I'm an Irish
girl, so I'm going to pickpotatoes.
Rich (34:04):
I will tell you that mashed potatoes is on the list
and we had a long conversationabout that last night.
So you absolutely can.
If you could automate one partof your life, what would it be?
Margaret (34:17):
Everything administrative Administration,
not my strengths, so I'mwelcoming AI.
Rich (34:23):
Do you have a theme song?
Margaret (34:26):
I like ABBA, so was it ABBA that had Take a Chance on
Me.
Rich (34:31):
Oh, absolutely Okay.
And the follow-up was going tobe which song?
Margaret (34:34):
Yeah, take a Chance on Me, because I think that I love
the rhythm of it, but also Ilike the spirit of that.
People have taken chances on meand I love when I have the
opportunity to do the same forother people.
Rich (34:47):
Oh, I really should just end it there, but I had one more
that I was going to ask what'sthe most unusual item that
you've bought or sold?
Margaret (34:56):
You know, growing up on a farm, there are lots of
unusual items that people buy orsell.
So when I was a child we raisedchickens so I was responsible
for cleaning and selling theeggs.
Rich (35:12):
I like that.
So you were an entrepreneurfrom a very young age.
Margaret (35:15):
I guess.
So, although I don't givemyself credit for that, and in
fact, I will have to have my sonlisten to this episode and tell
him that I was entrepreneurial.
I just have to reignite thatinsight that you just shared,
rich.
Rich (35:30):
Absolutely amazing.
Really appreciate the time andtons of lessons.
I know we probably have a longsheet of takeaways from this,
margaret.
Wonderful to have you shareyour experiences and your
knowledge and wisdom with thosethat are up and coming and,
quite frankly, anybody can takea lesson away from this.
(35:53):
So thank you very much.
Margaret (35:55):
My pleasure, truly an honor.
You, and best of luck with thenew season.
Gautham (35:59):
Well, wow, that was such a powerful conversation.
Look, I was fascinated from thestory of how she got to the US
all the way to how marketing ischanging, and I must say what
stood out to me we never hadthose questions about brand
performance, brand versusperformance or sustainable
(36:22):
marketing in any of our preparedquestions for her.
Yet the way she answered it,how thoughtfully she segmented
the questions into differentparts and came up with eloquent
answers to me, and she waswilling to take a stance on
these hard questions that arecurrent today in marketing.
(36:43):
I think they are a great lessonfor our students on how to
speak effectively andefficiently while communicating
on very, very difficult issues,and I must say I learned so much
from the conversation, just asa communicator and as a marketer
.
Rich (37:02):
Yeah, gautam, I know what you mean.
You know I was excited for youguys to meet her.
I had that kind of anticipationbecause I've heard her speak in
the past and I've had thefortune of having several
conversations with her, and asmuch as we're gearing this
primarily towards those who arestarting off or at the early
stages of retail, or students, Ireally think she's a natural
(37:24):
teacher.
Paula (37:25):
I agree there is something for everyone in this
episode.
I feel like that will be atagline of ours.
Oh, she was just great and justseeing just a wonderful woman
talking about her children, youknow humbling her.
And I found her comment aboutCVS to be really on point that I
hadn't thought about.
When I think CVS, I think thelong receipts.
(37:45):
She has a point right theirbrand purpose of helping people.
Rich (37:51):
That was probably my best takeaway from this 30-minute
talk with her at the same time,learn from them, and you can
tell that she not only has agreat admiration for her kids,
(38:17):
but just for that generation intotal and what she can learn
from them, and I think that issomething that we have to
absolutely embrace.
Gautham (38:26):
She is an immigrant.
Right, when you come across asan immigrant, you are an
entrepreneur in many which ways,and she talks about how her
child or children made thecomment that, oh, you've been
taken over by Incorporate andgoing back to the
entrepreneurial roots.
I found that fascinating, andthe fact that she was
representing Irish clothing wasalso entrepreneurial.
(38:50):
Sometimes you forget where youcome from and you have these
unique movements which get youin touch with your roots in some
ways, and I thought that was avery nice story that wove
through the whole conversationyeah, gotham, I would agree, and
you know I was thinking back towhen she first released wearing
irish, and it was a.
Rich (39:11):
It was a passion project for her.
She was going into ground.
That was a little bit moreunfamiliar and I'd known her for
a couple of years.
I had run into her at industryevents that, attended her
presentations, taking copiousnotes, but at that moment it was
a relatable moment for usbecause I had been in retail for
(39:32):
many years and in the apparelindustry for a large segment of
it, and so we were able toconnect on that and we've
remained connected ever since,which is, paul, as you pointed
out, the whole reason that we'redoing this, and so I'm excited
that you guys enjoyed it.
I know that our listeners willenjoy this and getting to know
her and the guests that you guyshave invited into the show as
(39:55):
we continue to go down this pathtogether.
Yeah.
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