August 15, 2024 • 38 mins
To kick off our first season, in this episode, we introduce ourselves and discuss our experiences, successes and failures, lessons learned, and motivations. This is not highly edited or polished; it is real and hopefully relatable. We hope you enjoy this episode and stay with us through the journey. We have some incredible guests lined up that we hope you enjoy meeting and learning from.
What is 'Retail Relates?'
It is not just a podcast; it's a journey into the heart of retail and commerce. Our episodes traverse the path from traditional marketplaces to digital platforms, highlighting the successes, trials, and invaluable lessons learned along the way. We're conversing with those shaping the industry—from the front lines to behind the scenes, the creative minds to the global strategists - offering a diverse 360-degree perspective. We're revealing the relationships and personal narratives that make retail engaging and accessible. 'Retail Relates' is an invitation to explore the world's interconnectedness through the lens of retail, encouraging listeners to discover the personal journeys and stories of those who drive innovation and unite us across cultures and continents.
Retail Relates is hosted by Paula Gean, a tech leader who is passionate about building connected communities and telling stories; Gautham Vadakkapett, a marketing professor with a Ph.D. and a deep curiosity for the retail industry and consumer behavior; and Rich Honiball, a retail executive who loves history and is inspired by turning commerce into a conduit—for connection, for culture, and for igniting the best in people.
Why did we come together to start this podcast? Fame? Fortune? Occupy our spare time? Hardly! We came together with this combined goal.
"Our success is not measured by the number of conversations we have with industry leaders or the number of talented individuals we meet. It's about the impact we make. If even ONE person finds value in our platform and perspectives and decides to pursue retail as a career choice, we consider our efforts worthwhile. Every journey matters to us."
In this series of conversations, we look forward to talking with those driving the retail industry today from every vantage point, introducing you to the diversity of talent and experiences, and discovering how the essence of retail is not just in transactions but in the meaningful connections and relatable stories that energize the industry.
If you have feedback or ideas or want to connect with us, email us at retailrelates@gmail.com.
In the meantime, thank you for tuning in, & enjoy!
Paula, Gautham, & Rich
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Paula (00:00):
Rich, Gautham, are you guys ready to do this?
Gautham (00:03):
So this will be interesting.
Paula (00:04):
We are going to do our About Us, rich.
We would love for you to kickus off, please, and we're all
going to interview as if we wereone of the guests, so you can
get to know us a little bitbetter.
So, rich, take it away.
Rich (00:17):
I'm going to ask the first question and I will tell you
this is a question that, aswe've gone through the podcast,
I think has become one of myfavorite questions.
I love the answers that we'regetting from guests, instead of
asking the traditional tell usabout your bio.
It's give us those three pivotpoints in your career, in your
life, that have brought you towhere you are today.
But I'm going to ask you guysfirst, because I have to tell
(00:41):
you.
As much as I love asking it andhearing the answers, I struggle
with narrowing it down.
So, gautam, let me ask you whatare the three pivot points in
your career and or life thathave brought you to where you
are right now?
Gautham (00:54):
You know I will say this, when we decided to do this
, I sat and thought a lot aboutwhat I'm going to speak and it's
actually really, really hard todistill it down to three pivot
points.
So I'm going to talk aboutfamily For me.
That's me as a person.
So I'm going to talk about mylife.
My career reflects my life inmany ways.
So the first pivot point for mewas getting into the
(01:17):
engineering school.
So, coming from India, everyonehad to be a doctor or an
engineer.
I wanted to be a doctor.
My parents really, reallywanted me to be a doctor, but I
passed out when I saw blood andso I became an engineer.
I was a lousy engineer at that,so I distinctly remember I took
an exam for the engineering andI ranked well.
My uncle came with me to godecide my future of what kind of
(01:42):
engineering program and I choseto be closest to home.
I actually used to take thetrain almost every other day to
be back with my family.
It was a one and a half hourdrive one way right.
My second pivot point was I didwell in my engineering school.
I have no regrets there.
It was the best decision of mylife, made some great friends.
(02:02):
Like with everyone in Indiaafter engineering, we decided,
okay, I'll go get my MBA.
So I started taking my MBA examand my uncle, who was in the US
at that time, was like Gautam,you have to get an American
education.
And I was like I'm not.
I'm the guy who took a train,one and a half hours, one way to
get a degree.
You're going to ask me to go tothe US.
Well, he forced me in some waysto take the exam, with the help
(02:24):
from my parents.
I did really, really well, gotadmitted into a lot of the good
schools in engineering, fromGeorgia Tech to Texas, a&m and
so forth.
My dad took some money out.
My uncle decided to support myeducation as well.
So there I was, a guy who neverleft home, sitting in a plane
crying my eyes off, and I got onthe plane and came to the US.
(02:44):
The best decision, right.
I am a completely different manbecause of who I became when I
came to the US and it's myadopted country now.
And then the third part I'llfast forward to me actually
meeting my wife, having a family, and that was probably the
biggest pivot point, right whenyou get to the age of 45 and all
(03:05):
your hair turns gray.
You wonder about the why whatare you doing these things for?
And I had my why right, and itkind of helped me achieve what I
am.
And so those are mylife-related pivot points.
Now, from my career-relatedpivot points, I was an engineer
by training.
I came to the US, I worked forGE as a contract worker for a
(03:26):
couple of years and I realizedat that point that I wanted to
do something more data analyticsdriven.
I got my PhD in marketing witha focus on data analytics and
that was a big pivot point.
And, of course, my third pivotpoint from a carrier perspective
was when I came to Mason.
I launched the retail center,which was quite successful, and,
(03:46):
as a consequence, I got tointeract with people such as
Rich and you, paula.
Paula (03:50):
Your retail BFFs or your podcast BFFs.
That's really vulnerable.
Thank you for sharing, Gautam.
My three pivot points in mycareer have been I was 18 and I
started at level one traumaorthopedics.
I got to talk to patients intheir most vulnerable and
horrific moments and work withsurgeons on helping these people
.
Got to go into the OR.
(04:11):
It was so impactful.
I just fell in love with peopleand their stories even more
then.
And then the second one waswhen I went into journalism very
shortly after I don't know, Ijust gravitated to it.
I interviewed people again insome of their most vulnerable
moments.
A gentleman had just lost hiswife the night before,
interviewed him about his life,really fell in love with
understanding people and whatmakes them tick and their why.
(04:32):
And then the third one was whenI went into tech.
So I had left journalism,decided I wanted to make some
money and I joined a digitalmarketing startup and that was
my first introduction to tech.
In my other two professions Iused tech all day.
I used it as a multimediajournalist, I used it to do the
presentations for theorthosurgeons.
(04:53):
When I went all into making itin my industry, my career, my
profession, that really changedthings for me, Really.
Another third pivot point Iguess 3.5, was when I married
Matt.
All the reasons why you marry apartner right.
He gave me that balance.
But also, most importantly, hetaught me how to think like a
blonde haired, blue eyed whiteguy, and not just a blonde
haired, blue eyed white guy, buta D1 athlete, blonde haired,
(05:17):
blue eyed white guy, who hadthat kind of life growing up and
I just saw the world from awhole different perspective.
And that's when I startedsetting healthy boundaries.
So those are my three.
Rich (05:29):
So you guys have given me the permission to go to a 3.5
and incorporate family, but atthe same time you probably have
given me greater clarity as towhat my three pivot points would
be.
My first one was in high school, sitting in a doctor's
examination room in Manchester,New Hampshire, and being told
(05:51):
that I wasn't medicallyqualified to join the Navy.
And, to put that in context, mygoal had been to join the Navy
with an ROTC scholarship,military intelligence, earn the
opportunity to have the Navy,pay for law school, retire
honorably, go into privatepractice.
I'd read Advise and Consent andI thought politics might be in
(06:14):
my future, maybe one or twoterms as a senator.
I was one of those kids thathad it mapped out.
I qualified academically forthe ROTC scholarship.
To this day I don't know how Ididn't realize that I wouldn't
pass the physical I scholarship.
To this day I don't know how Ididn't realize that I wouldn't
pass the physical.
I was hit by a car when I wasin sixth grade.
I couldn't make it past theseason of soccer.
Hearing the news, I wentthrough 17 different emotions
(06:36):
and at the very end of it,realized I had no plan B.
Like a lot of people in retail.
I kind of worked in retail as Itook classes for several years,
not really knowing what Iwanted to do with the rest of my
life.
The second pivot I was themanager of a new concept store
in New Hampshire.
I had a mentor and a boss atthe time who offered me an
(06:57):
opportunity to take over thedivision of 10 stores.
It was a concept for a nationalspecialty retailer.
It meant they would relocate meto their headquarters outside
of Baltimore, so my wife and Iwould move and the concept of
being relocated and runningmultiple stores.
And they went as high as SouthBend, Indiana, Madison,
Wisconsin, Montgomery, Alabama.
(07:19):
I think I might've been in mymid twenties at the time and it
was the first time that I reallysaw retail as a career and I
was exposed to store operationsand buying and sourcing.
I really fell in love with theindustry.
And then the third pivot pointis somewhat personal and career
related.
I was a successful executive ata private equity-backed company
(07:43):
.
I was a successful executivewith a publicly held company.
I was on a career trajectorywhere I was accumulating stock
options and grant, lookingforward to the next bonus and
the next promotion.
I left a position because I sawsome things that I didn't
particularly like, Subsequentlystarted to think of retail and
(08:05):
the rest of my career, not justin terms of making money or
earning a title, but trying tohave an impact Our daughter's
adopted.
There's a wonderful irony inthat today I work for the US
Navy in a position where I holdthe civilian rank of a flag
officer and I get to domerchandising and marketing and
I get to serve the very customer, the very patron that I had
hoped to be part of so manyyears ago.
(08:27):
And on the day that my daughterwas born, unbeknownst to me, I
was actually at Brooks Brothersselling Nextcom on a uniform
program.
But that pivotal moment was thefirst day I was out of, I had
stepped out of that executiveposition and I was home for the
first day and started thenetwork for my next one.
And my daughter came home andshe said oh, you're home, Can
(08:49):
you teach me how to ride my bikewithout training wheels?
Now I had thought she was goingto ask why dad was home.
Did I have a job?
What was going on?
And I broke down, I went intothe other room and I cried for
about 10 minutes like I've nevercried before, and I came back
out and we went to the park andfor four days straight, when she
got home from school, we wentto the park.
And on Thursday, when she said,daddy, I'm doing it, I'm doing
(09:12):
it I won't tell you that Ipivoted permanently, but it was
when I appreciated that there'smuch more than just career
advancement and stock options.
And since that point, thepurpose of what I'm doing and
the value of what I'm doing hasmattered more and more.
Paula (09:27):
That's really beautiful.
Rich (09:27):
Very nice report yeah.
Paula (09:29):
I don't know why that made me want to cry too.
Gautham (09:32):
But listening to these things?
Right, we ask people and, ifyou think about it, even with
the guests that we spoke to,most of them had a personal
right.
We often talk keep work andlife, a family life, separate,
but they're so deeplyintertwined Like I can't tell
you how much time, like ofcourse I didn't speak it as
eloquently as I wanted to, butthe amount of time I spent
(09:54):
thinking about this and I couldnot disentangle the two, and so
I said, okay, you know what If Ididn't realize I was going to
be the first one out of the bat,but I had a three career kind
of things.
But to me the ones I startedoff with are truly the pivotal
points, and I think it wasreally nice to hear the story
from the three of you.
Like it was almost all personalin some ways.
Rich (10:14):
Besides and the personal part affects the career part- so
, Paul, I'm going to let you askthe next question.
Well, what am I saying?
I'm not going to let you askthe next question.
Well, what am I saying?
Paula (10:26):
I'm not going to let you do anything, but if you would
like to, you are welcome to askthe next question I'll ask the
question Rich, so I have anotherquestion for you what is your
biggest failure and learningfrom that?
Rich (10:38):
Another question I struggle with.
I think my biggest learning isacceptance of failure.
I'm not trying to be funny withthe wordsmithing there.
I am in marketing after all.
Early in my career I was soafraid of saying the wrong thing
one of the symptoms of impostersyndrome that I found myself
being quiet and really notjoining the conversation until I
(11:02):
saw the direction that it wasgoing into.
And then one day a seniorexecutive said hey, honeyball,
in the absence of an opinion,you can have mine.
And I realized that I had tospeak up.
And now I don't shut up.
It's really because I have anopinion on a lot of things.
You guys will know that I neverwanted to be mistaken for being
(11:25):
somebody who didn't have anopinion and was afraid to
express it.
Now that's been probably mybiggest learning, especially as
I've advanced my career learninghow much what I say matters in
some cases and doesn't matter inother cases.
And I'll give you a quickexample.
If I say I believe in work-lifebalance, in my case I believe
more in work-life balance, in mycase, I believe more in
(11:46):
work-life harmony but I don'tshow that and demonstrate it.
My words are hollow, and so Iactually have to show it with my
actions.
On the flip side, I realizedthat I'm in a position where, if
I say something to a person andit might be an off-the-cuff
comment, there's a lot of timeswhere it just became an edict we
joke about in my office andpeople will march down a path
(12:09):
and I've just created thisdivision because I didn't choose
my words wisely.
So I think the biggest lessonfor me is understanding.
Actions speak louder than words.
But your words really matterwhen they don't connect with
what your intent is Agreewholeheartedly.
Paula (12:26):
Those are great examples as well.
So Gautam to you your biggestfailure and learning from it.
Gautham (12:32):
I'll actually talk about my opening lecture as not
a biggest failure but as a wayto kind of frame how I think of
it.
And for me, the biggest thinggrowing up was I was afraid to
fail, kind of what, like Richhad said, part of it is culture,
part of it is the pressuresthat come with who you are and
so forth, and part of it is justthat mental block of failing
(12:54):
and I always say this to mystudents is that you know, when
I came to the US I weighed in at82 pounds, true story.
I could not lift a five poundweight and since then I've had,
I've made an intentionaldecision to try different things
.
Not really failure, but it's.
You learn a lot from it and infact you grow faster from
(13:29):
failure.
So perhaps very cliche, butthat is my biggest failure is to
be afraid of failure.
Paula (13:36):
I think that's one that a lot of people could resonate
with.
So for me, my biggest failurein learning from it I had a
couple, but the one I ultimatelychose is lack of boundaries.
So I had a boss and I was justso desperate for approval that I
used to take their call 4 am,midnight and anytime in between
(13:58):
I used to, like they would say,jump, and I would ask how far?
And we're talking about notthat long ago I just made myself
a doormat and I lost a lot ofconfidence and self-respect that
I'm still trying to gain tothis day.
You have to have healthyboundaries, and that's one of
the first times that my husbandsat me down and said, like I
(14:19):
don't like to interfere withyour life and how you handle it,
but you need to understand thatthis, this is what's happening,
and I was just so in it that Ididn't see how I was being taken
advantage of.
Set healthy boundaries.
They matter so much for yourhealth, for your self-esteem and
for setting you up for the restof your life.
Gautham (14:38):
That's a great lesson right Setting boundaries,
setting you up for the rest ofyour life that's a great lesson
right Setting boundaries.
I also remember.
I'll add one other thing that Ilearned was my advisor, when I
graduated from my PhD program,said Gautam, the biggest problem
with you is you'll never learnto say no.
That was a very, very astuteobservation on his part and I
still can't say I'm learning tosay no.
(14:58):
It is a hard fight for me tosay no, and that's also a very,
very important lesson, I think,is to learn to your point of
boundaries.
Learning to say no is criticalin setting those boundaries.
Paula (15:10):
And knowing what healthy boundaries look like.
Especially when you grow up asan immigrant, which I know you
understand, you just are alwaystaught that you've got to go
farther, you've got to go faster, you've got to try harder.
Gautham (15:21):
You've got to go farther, you got to go faster,
you got to try harder, you gotto do more.
So, you know, I give credit toour guests because, man, this is
tough.
But let's move to an eventougher part of the show, which
is the lessons.
And perhaps for our audience,why don't we just take a quick
minute or two to talk about whowe are and why we're actually
doing this?
Rich (15:37):
So I think I'll answer first.
I right now serve as the chiefmerchandising officer for the
Navy Exchange Service Commandthat serves military patrons
across the globe.
I'm the chief marketing officerfor the entire command, so that
includes not just the retailstores but food, fuel services,
hospitality we have over 18,000hotel rooms, our uniform program
(15:59):
, ship stores.
It defines a lot of who I am,but the mentor part and the
coach part is becoming more andmore important to me.
That's what led me to followingGotham's footsteps at George
Mason and trying my hand atteaching retail.
And it's why this project isimportant to me, because I'm not
(16:20):
going to say I'm getting to theend of my career, but when I
was taught it was you.
What is it?
You learn, you earn and thenyou impact, and so I'm probably
in the impact stage of my career.
Diversity in every single senseof the word matters more and
more to me every day.
I've learned that from mydaughter.
I've learned that from thisgeneration.
(16:41):
This project's important to mebecause not only do I get to
spend time with my podcast BFFsand I'm probably going to steal
Gotham's line here if there'sone person that listens to the
very diverse group of gueststhat we have and decides hey,
you know what, retail would be agreat career and all of the
hours that we spent is worth it.
When I retire and I will oneday and I travel the world with
(17:05):
my high school sweetheart, Iwant to leave behind a very
diversified group of talentedpeople who make this a better
place.
Paula (17:14):
I am currently the leader of partnerships and alliances
for a billion dollar techcompany.
I also am the co founder of acamping safari company called
Africa culture journeys.
We do camping safaris inBotswana, which is the country
right above South Africa, and Ithink I might be the first
camping safari Latina ownerwhich I'm very proud of.
(17:36):
So all of this to say is that,though I can tell you concretely
what I've done, really, for me,it's about impact.
Where can I add value?
Growing up, we didn't have much,so my mom instilled in us hey,
you may have nothing, but no onewill ever, ever, ever take away
from you.
Number one, what's in betweenyour ears, and number two, the
(18:00):
value that you provide.
So a driving principle in mylife has been anywhere you go,
make sure that you leave it alittle bit better than how you
found it.
At minimum, that's somethingthat's driven me.
I am just so happy to be hereand just feel very honored to be
able to have theseconversations with these leading
executives and people that havesuch different paths and people
(18:24):
that I admire, and to becollaborating with you, rich,
and you, gotham.
It just it brings a lot of joyto me, to my life.
Gautham (18:32):
I will bring us home on this question.
So I am an associate professorof marketing at the University
of Central Florida.
I've been an academic for thepast 12 plus years.
Where I teach in marketing, Itake a data-driven approach to
teaching marketing, where wetalk about marketing analytics
and emerging technologies.
I have also, in the process,built interfaces between
(18:55):
academia and industry to try andbring the two together to shape
the future of the talent thatenters these industries.
So why am I doing this?
For the past 12 years or so, onething has always stood out I
have had students, be it atGeorge Mason, be it at the
University of Central Florida,who always worked in retail but
(19:17):
have never, ever consideredretail as a real career, and for
me, bringing individuals intothe classroom was a great way to
connect students with theindustry and to make the
industry relatable, make themactually understand the
opportunities that the industrypresents and to go from an
(19:39):
accidental career to perhaps anintentional career.
So that's purpose number one.
Purpose number two for me isthat I am innately curious on
how leaders operate.
Selfishly speaking, with thispodcast, I get to pick the
brains of several extremelysharp individuals who I probably
(19:59):
never had the opportunity tospeak with and in the process.
Not only does it bring in freshcontent into the classroom, but
it also helps me shape mythinking and the way I approach
life in general, as we haveexperienced with our initial set
of five or six podcasts, manyof them were tips on how to
manage different difficultscenarios.
(20:20):
So those are the two primaryreasons for me to do this and,
of course, as Rich said, yes, ifeven one person not listens but
actually makes retail anintentional career, I will take
it as a win and I also stronglybelieve that for me personally,
I want people to think of retailin a much broader spectrum as
an industry.
(20:41):
If you're 90, retail is theright place to go shop.
If you're into analytics,retail is the best place that I
can speak.
They have a lot of data toactually build those interfaces.
So to think outside and toactually think of retail as the
first place for some of thesecool new areas to be in, that is
a great answer, and mycatchphrase has become I'm going
(21:03):
to take these notes back to myteam.
Rich (21:05):
And I do that.
I keep a notebook here and I'mtaking notes.
So I will ask the next question.
We've all talked a lot aboutmentoring.
We ask our guests about mentorsand or about the best advice
they've ever received.
I'll ask each of you a mentorwho has meant the most, had the
greatest impact or the greatestadvice you ever received.
Gautham (21:27):
All right, I'll go first, just to give all of you a
chance to think about it.
So this is probably gonna comefrom the left field, but the
person who has really had thebiggest impact on me is my mom,
and I'll give one simple exampleand I will remember this to.
Is my mom, and I'll give onesimple example, and I will
remember this to this very day,when I was a very small kid I
don't remember exactly the age,but I remember the instance I
decided to boil eggs by myselfand the water was boiling and I
(21:51):
was standing on a stool and mymom comes in and she sees me
boiling the eggs and puttingeggs one after the other in
there and the water's boiling,right, it's starting to spill
over and my mom says, gautam,you should not put any more eggs
in there, it's going to burnyou.
And I'm like no mom, I can putone more egg in.
And I remember to this day shesaid well, go ahead, you can try
(22:12):
and see what happens.
And I actually tried.
The rest is history, but I tried.
The lesson there was you got totry, got to learn to do things,
and that was perhaps the bestadvice I've ever received and it
stood with me is that don'ttake others word for it.
You try, you learn from yourown successes or mistakes.
(22:34):
Okay, now I will tell you.
I put the egg in and the waterdid not spill over, I did not
not get burned, but it wasperhaps the best lesson.
It's like hey, don't listen tome, even your mother.
Do what you think and see whathappens and deal with the
consequences.
So that was my best mentorshipadvice that I tell everyone else
.
Live your own life, do what youthink is right, seek advice,
(22:56):
but go after it with your owninterests in mind.
Paula (23:00):
That's good.
I was not expecting that.
So for me, mentor who meant themost or the greatest advice?
Of course, I have to mentionRich.
I've been so lucky, I've beenvery fortunate, to have some
really great mentors in my life,and some of them that didn't
even know they were mentors thattaught me how I didn't want to
be, because those are importantas well.
I mean I just can't boil it downto one or two or three.
(23:22):
One that I was going to mentionGotham, before you said yours
was my mom, because I mean shecame to this country to give us
a better life and she taught usdetermination and grit and
thoughtfulness.
I just couldn't, I wouldn't beanywhere without the lessons
that she taught me.
The greatest advice has got tobe just keep learning, so in all
aspects, because the worldchanges and you don't realize
(23:43):
that you stop changing asrapidly as you did in your early
20s and then one day you wakeup.
Some people wake up and theybecome that crotchety old person
that doesn't understand why thekids won't get off their lawn.
But if you continue learningand continue exposing yourself
to what younger generations haveto teach us and what the world
around us, what it actually is,you'll be in a good position.
Rich (24:05):
Well, I will say, in case I don't cut out the part where
Paula mentions me I consider hera mentor.
I think the more you cansurround yourself with people
that you can learn from, it canbe younger, older, less
experienced, more experienced,different industries, and so
part of me is challenged withthe notion of who's the mentor I
remember most.
I'll recall one because hepassed away this year and
(24:29):
there's a very specific moment,but I do remember probably one
of the best piece of advice Ilearned from a mentor as well.
The mentor that I'll mention isMartin Greenfield tour as well.
The mentor that I'll mention isMartin Greenfield, who was a
Holocaust survivor.
He owned Greenfield ClothingCompany.
He and Claudio Del Vecchio werehelpful when we went to adopt
(24:50):
our daughter.
They introduced us to theattorney that they had used, and
I had the opportunity to travelthe country with Martin and
with another friend of ours,alan Levine, selling custom
apparel to Brooks Brotherscustomers.
This is a man who survived oneof the most horrific times in
life and yet he had a work ethicthat was unbelievable, and I
(25:10):
remember one of his favoritecities was DC.
Colin Powell was a friend and acustomer, and I had the chance
to meet Secretary Powell throughMartin.
I remember this one night we hadbeen working for 12 hours
straight.
I was dog tired.
I could not imagine how Martinstill had any energy and the
store had closed and there was awrap on the door and somebody
(25:30):
said I rushed, I tried to get in.
I want to see Martin, I wantedto get a soup before I left.
I watched Martin just kind ofgo from that, slumped over I've
just worked 12, 14 hours topicking himself up, taking a
deep breath, turning around andwith the energy of a 21 year old
, the biggest smile and thebiggest greeting, and made that
person feel like he was thefirst customer of the day.
(25:51):
And I watched that time andtime again and it's always stuck
with me.
I think from an adviceperspective, it was from another
mentor.
I was put in a position and Idid what I felt was personally
well, but didn't receive therecognition that I thought I had
deserved.
I challenged this person whohad put me in the position, who
(26:13):
was a senior executive, and hesaid to me Rich, you didn't
learn what I wanted you to learn.
You think that respect andrecognition come from authority
and title and it's earned.
It doesn't matter what yourtitle is.
You are trying to get everybodyto learn your language.
You need to learn everybodyelse's language.
You need to learn your boss'slanguage.
(26:33):
You need to learn what otherpeople need to get out of the
equation.
Yes, you've been successful,but you haven't learned how to
truly be a leader, and a titleis not going to get that for you
, and I was pissed as hellbecause it wasn't the answer I
wanted and it burned me for acouple of months.
I continue to think about itand he and I have talked about
that day.
It's one of those things thatstuck with me throughout my
(26:56):
entire career.
That it's you earn it.
It's not a title, it's notauthority, it's not autonomy,
it's day-to-day earning it.
Gautham (27:04):
You know it's interesting, also right, the
best mentors are the people whogive it to you straight, at
least to me, like I, of course,spoke of my mother, but there
are lots of other people whoinfluenced me.
They're always the people whotook the time to be there, be
available, but also give it toyou straight no sugar coating,
maybe, because that's how I likeit, but those are the best
(27:25):
mentors.
Rich (27:26):
Well, Gautham had a chance to meet one of my mentors and
it was just, I will say Ilearned.
I have learned an immenseamount from my wife, from my
daughter, but Gautham knowsfirsthand.
The first time I came and spoketo his class, it was the first
time my daughter had visited thecollege campus.
I struggled with publicspeaking and confidence and so I
asked her to give me advice,because she struggles with it as
(27:49):
well.
I presented and I was talkingto the students afterwards and
my daughter's taught me to bemore open about having ADD and
imposter syndrome and of mychallenges, because I wasn't as
comfortable with it then.
And I looked over and I saw mydaughter had gone up to and this
is an introvert, this is a shyperson, paula, you know her well
and she was over at Gothamtaking notes.
(28:11):
How did my dad do?
How could he have done better?
I mean Gotham, it wasn't justgive me a superficial answer,
she was trying to help me getbetter.
Yep.
Gautham (28:21):
I will never forget that day because I have always
believed that you got to ask forhonest advice.
It was interesting to see aperson who I did not know at all
, right Like we had just walkedover from my office to the
classroom that's the limitedinteraction I had with her to
come up to me after that and Iwas like tell me what my dad can
(28:44):
do better.
Paula (28:44):
And I'm like oh no, no pressure, but it's just my dad
at the second right now.
Gautham (28:50):
I was like he did great , he was wonderful, he's covered
key topics, no, but what can hedo better?
I said I love that attitude.
Right, we always the growthmindset.
That's really wonderful to seeand I hope everyone has that
attitude.
Paula (29:04):
She takes her job seriously or her responsibility
seriously.
Rich (29:08):
She's probably like us and she's like a lot of people, in
that it's tough for hersometimes to speak or to carry
herself with confidence, butshe's amazing at coaching other
people and I would probably lookat the two of you and say I
could see similar traits.
I know with me it's much easierto give advice sometimes than
to get advice, but she is.
(29:29):
It's amazing to see her turninto the young woman that she is
.
Paula (29:32):
All right.
So we've talked aboutmentorship, we've talked about
our three pivotal moments.
Tell me, if I was trying to geta job with you, what is the
most important skill set thatyou look for or quality that you
look for in others?
Rich (29:46):
So you know how I always struggle with giving succinct
answers and I always have threeanswers to one question.
This one's easy, I know it'snever happened.
This one's easy Curiosity.
This one's easy, I know it'snever happened.
This one's easy Curiosity.
If you are not curious aboutpeople, about your job, about
life around you, you can be thesmartest person in the world,
(30:07):
you can have a tremendous skillset, but it means you're not
learning, you're not growing,you're not curious about your
coworkers.
Curiosity, to me, is the thingthat I am looking for the most.
Gautham (30:18):
Interesting.
Since option A is gone, I'll gowith option B.
So curiosity of course, but Ithink curiosity without ability
to connect with the human thatis across the table does not
bode well.
So in my experiences I've had alot of interaction with very,
very curious, very, very sharppeople, but their inability to
(30:39):
connect with the person acrossthe table, their inability to
see walk in their shoe, isperhaps, to me, has been a
bigger, revealing lesson, and sowhen I look at things,
especially as an academic, whereour publications take five
years, I assume curiosity isthere.
But then the most importantthing is can I grab a drink with
(31:00):
this person?
Can I actually be straight upwith him?
I can fight with him or her,but the next day we'll get back
to conversations, right, and Ikeep my circle very small and
limited for that reason.
But that's really, reallyimportant to me is their ability
to connect, the ability tospeak directly, the ability to
(31:22):
have empathy.
Paula (31:23):
So the skillset or quality I look for the most in
others is thoughtfulness.
My mom was very thoughtful.
She taught us how to be verythoughtful, but not thoughtful
as in the classic way you wouldthink of thoughtfulness.
I'm talking about that kind ofthoughtfulness that makes you
very perceptive and other peoplethink that you're very
intuitive, but you're justinsanely curious and thoughtful
(31:46):
about it and you put that intoaction.
I feel like thoughtfulness isthe result of curiosity and
action.
Okay, gotham, rapid fire, areyou ready?
Absolutely, I'll go first.
Your walk-on song.
Gautham (31:59):
I don't have any, but I will say I'm a hardcore rock
and roll person.
So if I had to pick any song,it would probably be Metallica
or Guns N' Roses.
Maybe, like Enter the Sandman,metallica might be my walk-on
song.
Rich (32:20):
Wow, you know I'm going to give you two options.
One of them would be EnterSandman by Metallica.
I had the chance to see live inconcert in San Francisco
outdoors it was phenomenal andMariana Rivera Yankees coming
out to Enter Sandman.
I mean, close it down,otherwise it would be Send in
the Clowns.
Paula (32:36):
I feel like those are two polar opposites.
Rich (32:38):
It all depends on the mood and the audience I'm speaking
to.
All right, Paula, what's yours?
Paula (32:45):
Dude, that's a hard one.
I'm going to have to punt onthat one.
But if I had to choose rightthis second, it would have to be
, you know, probably that PocketFull of Sunshine song.
I don't know why that popped inmy head, like I do not know why
.
That's the first song thatpopped in my head.
So, but actually I would haveto pick something from shakira,
because she's also from columbia.
I take it back, I would dosomething with shakira, okay,
(33:08):
next question all right, I'llask.
Rich (33:10):
You can transport yourself to anywhere in the world right
now, 24 hours.
Where do you go easy for?
Gautham (33:15):
me wimbon.
I am a diehard tennis fan.
I will take any option.
I've never been to Wimbledon towatch a game, but that will be
my option.
And if I could watch StefanEdberg play Boris Becker, that
would be even better.
Paula (33:32):
Anywhere for 24 hours and I would be safe.
So that's a tough one.
Initially I thought, botswana,I'd like to be in the middle of
nowhere with the animalsunplugged.
But then, if I would be safe, Iwould absolutely get in the
middle of like Russia or Ukraineor Iran or Gaza.
(33:54):
Like I would get right thereand see like what is going on
and get in and help, if I knewthat we would be okay.
Rich (34:01):
I like that and the interesting thing is.
So I'll answer.
And typically I've been to all50 states.
I've been to I think my countis 70 countries, and when we
retire, that's what I want to dois travel.
Retire, that's what I want todo is travel.
So you would expect my answerto be someplace I've never been,
but right now, this moment, Iwould go to Negril, seven mile
(34:24):
beach sunset with my wife.
We've been twice.
It was the first adult vacationwe took a few years ago.
The sunset in Negril is justabsolutely beautiful and I think
it would just be nice to sitthere and just soak it all in.
Gautham (34:39):
I will ask the last question, I guess, which is if
you could automate one part ofyour life, what would that be?
Paula (34:47):
Answering emails, which is getting more automated, but
like thoughtful answers andresolving problems through email
that I would automate that in aheartbeat.
Rich (34:58):
I'm actually going to have to go with the same answer and
I struggle with it.
I don't.
I have a hard time with havingmy EA go through my emails at
work because and I've got 8,000of them right now because I
don't want to take the chance ofmissing something and I use it
kind of as a disorganized filingsystem.
But it's gotten to the pointwhere, if I could trust the
(35:21):
automation, I'd love to clean upmy inbox and just simplify.
Gautham (35:26):
And for me it's going to be syllabus kind of related
right.
But, rich, you know this, atthe beginning of the semester
there are quite a few questionsthat come in that are actually
on the syllabus, and so I wasthrilled when ChatGPT finally
was available.
I'm hoping that we can embedthat into our learning systems
to answer questions, because,man, that would be amazing.
Rich (35:50):
Well, in the spirit of the fact that your daughter is
looking in the window and youhave a daddy-daughter date,
what's the ice cream of choice?
So?
Gautham (35:57):
she always gets cotton candy with a ton of sprinkles.
Like mother, like daughter,they both get the same thing.
I have to try every ice cream,so they will decide what I get.
That's always the.
Paula (36:10):
Such an academic, a thoughtful academic.
Rich (36:15):
Close out with your ice cream of choice Lime sherbet,
orange sherbet.
Gautham (36:20):
See, I can't make a decision like that, like I have
to try something different everytime.
It's like annoying.
Rich (36:27):
You got us onto this ice cream.
I'm like yeah.
Gautham (36:30):
I got you on, but we're moving on.
Rich (36:33):
Assuming they have every flavor, I would I choose between
pistachio and peppermint, butI'm I'm with gotham I.
Gautham (36:39):
I like to try just about everything I love
pistachio peppermint maybe notas much, but pistachio yes.
Hey, I love something newmetallica pistachio, awesome.
And I've got to meet matt.
Paula (36:48):
That's the the big takeaway from all this all right
, all right, go enjoy your icecream.
Rich, Gautham, are you guys ready to do this?
Gautham (00:03):
So this will be interesting.
Paula (00:04):
We are going to do our About Us, rich.
We would love for you to kickus off, please, and we're all
going to interview as if we wereone of the guests, so you can
get to know us a little bitbetter.
So, rich, take it away.
Rich (00:17):
I'm going to ask the first question and I will tell you
this is a question that, aswe've gone through the podcast,
I think has become one of myfavorite questions.
I love the answers that we'regetting from guests, instead of
asking the traditional tell usabout your bio.
It's give us those three pivotpoints in your career, in your
life, that have brought you towhere you are today.
But I'm going to ask you guysfirst, because I have to tell
(00:41):
you.
As much as I love asking it andhearing the answers, I struggle
with narrowing it down.
So, gautam, let me ask you whatare the three pivot points in
your career and or life thathave brought you to where you
are right now?
Gautham (00:54):
You know I will say this, when we decided to do this
, I sat and thought a lot aboutwhat I'm going to speak and it's
actually really, really hard todistill it down to three pivot
points.
So I'm going to talk aboutfamily For me.
That's me as a person.
So I'm going to talk about mylife.
My career reflects my life inmany ways.
So the first pivot point for mewas getting into the
(01:17):
engineering school.
So, coming from India, everyonehad to be a doctor or an
engineer.
I wanted to be a doctor.
My parents really, reallywanted me to be a doctor, but I
passed out when I saw blood andso I became an engineer.
I was a lousy engineer at that,so I distinctly remember I took
an exam for the engineering andI ranked well.
My uncle came with me to godecide my future of what kind of
(01:42):
engineering program and I choseto be closest to home.
I actually used to take thetrain almost every other day to
be back with my family.
It was a one and a half hourdrive one way right.
My second pivot point was I didwell in my engineering school.
I have no regrets there.
It was the best decision of mylife, made some great friends.
(02:02):
Like with everyone in Indiaafter engineering, we decided,
okay, I'll go get my MBA.
So I started taking my MBA examand my uncle, who was in the US
at that time, was like Gautam,you have to get an American
education.
And I was like I'm not.
I'm the guy who took a train,one and a half hours, one way to
get a degree.
You're going to ask me to go tothe US.
Well, he forced me in some waysto take the exam, with the help
(02:24):
from my parents.
I did really, really well, gotadmitted into a lot of the good
schools in engineering, fromGeorgia Tech to Texas, a&m and
so forth.
My dad took some money out.
My uncle decided to support myeducation as well.
So there I was, a guy who neverleft home, sitting in a plane
crying my eyes off, and I got onthe plane and came to the US.
(02:44):
The best decision, right.
I am a completely different manbecause of who I became when I
came to the US and it's myadopted country now.
And then the third part I'llfast forward to me actually
meeting my wife, having a family, and that was probably the
biggest pivot point, right whenyou get to the age of 45 and all
(03:05):
your hair turns gray.
You wonder about the why whatare you doing these things for?
And I had my why right, and itkind of helped me achieve what I
am.
And so those are mylife-related pivot points.
Now, from my career-relatedpivot points, I was an engineer
by training.
I came to the US, I worked forGE as a contract worker for a
(03:26):
couple of years and I realizedat that point that I wanted to
do something more data analyticsdriven.
I got my PhD in marketing witha focus on data analytics and
that was a big pivot point.
And, of course, my third pivotpoint from a carrier perspective
was when I came to Mason.
I launched the retail center,which was quite successful, and,
(03:46):
as a consequence, I got tointeract with people such as
Rich and you, paula.
Paula (03:50):
Your retail BFFs or your podcast BFFs.
That's really vulnerable.
Thank you for sharing, Gautam.
My three pivot points in mycareer have been I was 18 and I
started at level one traumaorthopedics.
I got to talk to patients intheir most vulnerable and
horrific moments and work withsurgeons on helping these people
.
Got to go into the OR.
(04:11):
It was so impactful.
I just fell in love with peopleand their stories even more
then.
And then the second one waswhen I went into journalism very
shortly after I don't know, Ijust gravitated to it.
I interviewed people again insome of their most vulnerable
moments.
A gentleman had just lost hiswife the night before,
interviewed him about his life,really fell in love with
understanding people and whatmakes them tick and their why.
(04:32):
And then the third one was whenI went into tech.
So I had left journalism,decided I wanted to make some
money and I joined a digitalmarketing startup and that was
my first introduction to tech.
In my other two professions Iused tech all day.
I used it as a multimediajournalist, I used it to do the
presentations for theorthosurgeons.
(04:53):
When I went all into making itin my industry, my career, my
profession, that really changedthings for me, Really.
Another third pivot point Iguess 3.5, was when I married
Matt.
All the reasons why you marry apartner right.
He gave me that balance.
But also, most importantly, hetaught me how to think like a
blonde haired, blue eyed whiteguy, and not just a blonde
haired, blue eyed white guy, buta D1 athlete, blonde haired,
(05:17):
blue eyed white guy, who hadthat kind of life growing up and
I just saw the world from awhole different perspective.
And that's when I startedsetting healthy boundaries.
So those are my three.
Rich (05:29):
So you guys have given me the permission to go to a 3.5
and incorporate family, but atthe same time you probably have
given me greater clarity as towhat my three pivot points would
be.
My first one was in high school, sitting in a doctor's
examination room in Manchester,New Hampshire, and being told
(05:51):
that I wasn't medicallyqualified to join the Navy.
And, to put that in context, mygoal had been to join the Navy
with an ROTC scholarship,military intelligence, earn the
opportunity to have the Navy,pay for law school, retire
honorably, go into privatepractice.
I'd read Advise and Consent andI thought politics might be in
(06:14):
my future, maybe one or twoterms as a senator.
I was one of those kids thathad it mapped out.
I qualified academically forthe ROTC scholarship.
To this day I don't know how Ididn't realize that I wouldn't
pass the physical I scholarship.
To this day I don't know how Ididn't realize that I wouldn't
pass the physical.
I was hit by a car when I wasin sixth grade.
I couldn't make it past theseason of soccer.
Hearing the news, I wentthrough 17 different emotions
(06:36):
and at the very end of it,realized I had no plan B.
Like a lot of people in retail.
I kind of worked in retail as Itook classes for several years,
not really knowing what Iwanted to do with the rest of my
life.
The second pivot I was themanager of a new concept store
in New Hampshire.
I had a mentor and a boss atthe time who offered me an
(06:57):
opportunity to take over thedivision of 10 stores.
It was a concept for a nationalspecialty retailer.
It meant they would relocate meto their headquarters outside
of Baltimore, so my wife and Iwould move and the concept of
being relocated and runningmultiple stores.
And they went as high as SouthBend, Indiana, Madison,
Wisconsin, Montgomery, Alabama.
(07:19):
I think I might've been in mymid twenties at the time and it
was the first time that I reallysaw retail as a career and I
was exposed to store operationsand buying and sourcing.
I really fell in love with theindustry.
And then the third pivot pointis somewhat personal and career
related.
I was a successful executive ata private equity-backed company
(07:43):
.
I was a successful executivewith a publicly held company.
I was on a career trajectorywhere I was accumulating stock
options and grant, lookingforward to the next bonus and
the next promotion.
I left a position because I sawsome things that I didn't
particularly like, Subsequentlystarted to think of retail and
(08:05):
the rest of my career, not justin terms of making money or
earning a title, but trying tohave an impact Our daughter's
adopted.
There's a wonderful irony inthat today I work for the US
Navy in a position where I holdthe civilian rank of a flag
officer and I get to domerchandising and marketing and
I get to serve the very customer, the very patron that I had
hoped to be part of so manyyears ago.
(08:27):
And on the day that my daughterwas born, unbeknownst to me, I
was actually at Brooks Brothersselling Nextcom on a uniform
program.
But that pivotal moment was thefirst day I was out of, I had
stepped out of that executiveposition and I was home for the
first day and started thenetwork for my next one.
And my daughter came home andshe said oh, you're home, Can
(08:49):
you teach me how to ride my bikewithout training wheels?
Now I had thought she was goingto ask why dad was home.
Did I have a job?
What was going on?
And I broke down, I went intothe other room and I cried for
about 10 minutes like I've nevercried before, and I came back
out and we went to the park andfor four days straight, when she
got home from school, we wentto the park.
And on Thursday, when she said,daddy, I'm doing it, I'm doing
(09:12):
it I won't tell you that Ipivoted permanently, but it was
when I appreciated that there'smuch more than just career
advancement and stock options.
And since that point, thepurpose of what I'm doing and
the value of what I'm doing hasmattered more and more.
Paula (09:27):
That's really beautiful.
Rich (09:27):
Very nice report yeah.
Paula (09:29):
I don't know why that made me want to cry too.
Gautham (09:32):
But listening to these things?
Right, we ask people and, ifyou think about it, even with
the guests that we spoke to,most of them had a personal
right.
We often talk keep work andlife, a family life, separate,
but they're so deeplyintertwined Like I can't tell
you how much time, like ofcourse I didn't speak it as
eloquently as I wanted to, butthe amount of time I spent
(09:54):
thinking about this and I couldnot disentangle the two, and so
I said, okay, you know what If Ididn't realize I was going to
be the first one out of the bat,but I had a three career kind
of things.
But to me the ones I startedoff with are truly the pivotal
points, and I think it wasreally nice to hear the story
from the three of you.
Like it was almost all personalin some ways.
Rich (10:14):
Besides and the personal part affects the career part- so
, Paul, I'm going to let you askthe next question.
Well, what am I saying?
I'm not going to let you askthe next question.
Well, what am I saying?
Paula (10:26):
I'm not going to let you do anything, but if you would
like to, you are welcome to askthe next question I'll ask the
question Rich, so I have anotherquestion for you what is your
biggest failure and learningfrom that?
Rich (10:38):
Another question I struggle with.
I think my biggest learning isacceptance of failure.
I'm not trying to be funny withthe wordsmithing there.
I am in marketing after all.
Early in my career I was soafraid of saying the wrong thing
one of the symptoms of impostersyndrome that I found myself
being quiet and really notjoining the conversation until I
(11:02):
saw the direction that it wasgoing into.
And then one day a seniorexecutive said hey, honeyball,
in the absence of an opinion,you can have mine.
And I realized that I had tospeak up.
And now I don't shut up.
It's really because I have anopinion on a lot of things.
You guys will know that I neverwanted to be mistaken for being
(11:25):
somebody who didn't have anopinion and was afraid to
express it.
Now that's been probably mybiggest learning, especially as
I've advanced my career learninghow much what I say matters in
some cases and doesn't matter inother cases.
And I'll give you a quickexample.
If I say I believe in work-lifebalance, in my case I believe
more in work-life balance, in mycase, I believe more in
(11:46):
work-life harmony but I don'tshow that and demonstrate it.
My words are hollow, and so Iactually have to show it with my
actions.
On the flip side, I realizedthat I'm in a position where, if
I say something to a person andit might be an off-the-cuff
comment, there's a lot of timeswhere it just became an edict we
joke about in my office andpeople will march down a path
(12:09):
and I've just created thisdivision because I didn't choose
my words wisely.
So I think the biggest lessonfor me is understanding.
Actions speak louder than words.
But your words really matterwhen they don't connect with
what your intent is Agreewholeheartedly.
Paula (12:26):
Those are great examples as well.
So Gautam to you your biggestfailure and learning from it.
Gautham (12:32):
I'll actually talk about my opening lecture as not
a biggest failure but as a wayto kind of frame how I think of
it.
And for me, the biggest thinggrowing up was I was afraid to
fail, kind of what, like Richhad said, part of it is culture,
part of it is the pressuresthat come with who you are and
so forth, and part of it is justthat mental block of failing
(12:54):
and I always say this to mystudents is that you know, when
I came to the US I weighed in at82 pounds, true story.
I could not lift a five poundweight and since then I've had,
I've made an intentionaldecision to try different things
.
Not really failure, but it's.
You learn a lot from it and infact you grow faster from
(13:29):
failure.
So perhaps very cliche, butthat is my biggest failure is to
be afraid of failure.
Paula (13:36):
I think that's one that a lot of people could resonate
with.
So for me, my biggest failurein learning from it I had a
couple, but the one I ultimatelychose is lack of boundaries.
So I had a boss and I was justso desperate for approval that I
used to take their call 4 am,midnight and anytime in between
(13:58):
I used to, like they would say,jump, and I would ask how far?
And we're talking about notthat long ago I just made myself
a doormat and I lost a lot ofconfidence and self-respect that
I'm still trying to gain tothis day.
You have to have healthyboundaries, and that's one of
the first times that my husbandsat me down and said, like I
(14:19):
don't like to interfere withyour life and how you handle it,
but you need to understand thatthis, this is what's happening,
and I was just so in it that Ididn't see how I was being taken
advantage of.
Set healthy boundaries.
They matter so much for yourhealth, for your self-esteem and
for setting you up for the restof your life.
Gautham (14:38):
That's a great lesson right Setting boundaries,
setting you up for the rest ofyour life that's a great lesson
right Setting boundaries.
I also remember.
I'll add one other thing that Ilearned was my advisor, when I
graduated from my PhD program,said Gautam, the biggest problem
with you is you'll never learnto say no.
That was a very, very astuteobservation on his part and I
still can't say I'm learning tosay no.
(14:58):
It is a hard fight for me tosay no, and that's also a very,
very important lesson, I think,is to learn to your point of
boundaries.
Learning to say no is criticalin setting those boundaries.
Paula (15:10):
And knowing what healthy boundaries look like.
Especially when you grow up asan immigrant, which I know you
understand, you just are alwaystaught that you've got to go
farther, you've got to go faster, you've got to try harder.
Gautham (15:21):
You've got to go farther, you got to go faster,
you got to try harder, you gotto do more.
So, you know, I give credit toour guests because, man, this is
tough.
But let's move to an eventougher part of the show, which
is the lessons.
And perhaps for our audience,why don't we just take a quick
minute or two to talk about whowe are and why we're actually
doing this?
Rich (15:37):
So I think I'll answer first.
I right now serve as the chiefmerchandising officer for the
Navy Exchange Service Commandthat serves military patrons
across the globe.
I'm the chief marketing officerfor the entire command, so that
includes not just the retailstores but food, fuel services,
hospitality we have over 18,000hotel rooms, our uniform program
(15:59):
, ship stores.
It defines a lot of who I am,but the mentor part and the
coach part is becoming more andmore important to me.
That's what led me to followingGotham's footsteps at George
Mason and trying my hand atteaching retail.
And it's why this project isimportant to me, because I'm not
(16:20):
going to say I'm getting to theend of my career, but when I
was taught it was you.
What is it?
You learn, you earn and thenyou impact, and so I'm probably
in the impact stage of my career.
Diversity in every single senseof the word matters more and
more to me every day.
I've learned that from mydaughter.
I've learned that from thisgeneration.
(16:41):
This project's important to mebecause not only do I get to
spend time with my podcast BFFsand I'm probably going to steal
Gotham's line here if there'sone person that listens to the
very diverse group of gueststhat we have and decides hey,
you know what, retail would be agreat career and all of the
hours that we spent is worth it.
When I retire and I will oneday and I travel the world with
(17:05):
my high school sweetheart, Iwant to leave behind a very
diversified group of talentedpeople who make this a better
place.
Paula (17:14):
I am currently the leader of partnerships and alliances
for a billion dollar techcompany.
I also am the co founder of acamping safari company called
Africa culture journeys.
We do camping safaris inBotswana, which is the country
right above South Africa, and Ithink I might be the first
camping safari Latina ownerwhich I'm very proud of.
(17:36):
So all of this to say is that,though I can tell you concretely
what I've done, really, for me,it's about impact.
Where can I add value?
Growing up, we didn't have much,so my mom instilled in us hey,
you may have nothing, but no onewill ever, ever, ever take away
from you.
Number one, what's in betweenyour ears, and number two, the
(18:00):
value that you provide.
So a driving principle in mylife has been anywhere you go,
make sure that you leave it alittle bit better than how you
found it.
At minimum, that's somethingthat's driven me.
I am just so happy to be hereand just feel very honored to be
able to have theseconversations with these leading
executives and people that havesuch different paths and people
(18:24):
that I admire, and to becollaborating with you, rich,
and you, gotham.
It just it brings a lot of joyto me, to my life.
Gautham (18:32):
I will bring us home on this question.
So I am an associate professorof marketing at the University
of Central Florida.
I've been an academic for thepast 12 plus years.
Where I teach in marketing, Itake a data-driven approach to
teaching marketing, where wetalk about marketing analytics
and emerging technologies.
I have also, in the process,built interfaces between
(18:55):
academia and industry to try andbring the two together to shape
the future of the talent thatenters these industries.
So why am I doing this?
For the past 12 years or so, onething has always stood out I
have had students, be it atGeorge Mason, be it at the
University of Central Florida,who always worked in retail but
(19:17):
have never, ever consideredretail as a real career, and for
me, bringing individuals intothe classroom was a great way to
connect students with theindustry and to make the
industry relatable, make themactually understand the
opportunities that the industrypresents and to go from an
(19:39):
accidental career to perhaps anintentional career.
So that's purpose number one.
Purpose number two for me isthat I am innately curious on
how leaders operate.
Selfishly speaking, with thispodcast, I get to pick the
brains of several extremelysharp individuals who I probably
(19:59):
never had the opportunity tospeak with and in the process.
Not only does it bring in freshcontent into the classroom, but
it also helps me shape mythinking and the way I approach
life in general, as we haveexperienced with our initial set
of five or six podcasts, manyof them were tips on how to
manage different difficultscenarios.
(20:20):
So those are the two primaryreasons for me to do this and,
of course, as Rich said, yes, ifeven one person not listens but
actually makes retail anintentional career, I will take
it as a win and I also stronglybelieve that for me personally,
I want people to think of retailin a much broader spectrum as
an industry.
(20:41):
If you're 90, retail is theright place to go shop.
If you're into analytics,retail is the best place that I
can speak.
They have a lot of data toactually build those interfaces.
So to think outside and toactually think of retail as the
first place for some of thesecool new areas to be in, that is
a great answer, and mycatchphrase has become I'm going
(21:03):
to take these notes back to myteam.
Rich (21:05):
And I do that.
I keep a notebook here and I'mtaking notes.
So I will ask the next question.
We've all talked a lot aboutmentoring.
We ask our guests about mentorsand or about the best advice
they've ever received.
I'll ask each of you a mentorwho has meant the most, had the
greatest impact or the greatestadvice you ever received.
Gautham (21:27):
All right, I'll go first, just to give all of you a
chance to think about it.
So this is probably gonna comefrom the left field, but the
person who has really had thebiggest impact on me is my mom,
and I'll give one simple exampleand I will remember this to.
Is my mom, and I'll give onesimple example, and I will
remember this to this very day,when I was a very small kid I
don't remember exactly the age,but I remember the instance I
decided to boil eggs by myselfand the water was boiling and I
(21:51):
was standing on a stool and mymom comes in and she sees me
boiling the eggs and puttingeggs one after the other in
there and the water's boiling,right, it's starting to spill
over and my mom says, gautam,you should not put any more eggs
in there, it's going to burnyou.
And I'm like no mom, I can putone more egg in.
And I remember to this day shesaid well, go ahead, you can try
(22:12):
and see what happens.
And I actually tried.
The rest is history, but I tried.
The lesson there was you got totry, got to learn to do things,
and that was perhaps the bestadvice I've ever received and it
stood with me is that don'ttake others word for it.
You try, you learn from yourown successes or mistakes.
(22:34):
Okay, now I will tell you.
I put the egg in and the waterdid not spill over, I did not
not get burned, but it wasperhaps the best lesson.
It's like hey, don't listen tome, even your mother.
Do what you think and see whathappens and deal with the
consequences.
So that was my best mentorshipadvice that I tell everyone else
.
Live your own life, do what youthink is right, seek advice,
(22:56):
but go after it with your owninterests in mind.
Paula (23:00):
That's good.
I was not expecting that.
So for me, mentor who meant themost or the greatest advice?
Of course, I have to mentionRich.
I've been so lucky, I've beenvery fortunate, to have some
really great mentors in my life,and some of them that didn't
even know they were mentors thattaught me how I didn't want to
be, because those are importantas well.
I mean I just can't boil it downto one or two or three.
(23:22):
One that I was going to mentionGotham, before you said yours
was my mom, because I mean shecame to this country to give us
a better life and she taught usdetermination and grit and
thoughtfulness.
I just couldn't, I wouldn't beanywhere without the lessons
that she taught me.
The greatest advice has got tobe just keep learning, so in all
aspects, because the worldchanges and you don't realize
(23:43):
that you stop changing asrapidly as you did in your early
20s and then one day you wakeup.
Some people wake up and theybecome that crotchety old person
that doesn't understand why thekids won't get off their lawn.
But if you continue learningand continue exposing yourself
to what younger generations haveto teach us and what the world
around us, what it actually is,you'll be in a good position.
Rich (24:05):
Well, I will say, in case I don't cut out the part where
Paula mentions me I consider hera mentor.
I think the more you cansurround yourself with people
that you can learn from, it canbe younger, older, less
experienced, more experienced,different industries, and so
part of me is challenged withthe notion of who's the mentor I
remember most.
I'll recall one because hepassed away this year and
(24:29):
there's a very specific moment,but I do remember probably one
of the best piece of advice Ilearned from a mentor as well.
The mentor that I'll mention isMartin Greenfield tour as well.
The mentor that I'll mention isMartin Greenfield, who was a
Holocaust survivor.
He owned Greenfield ClothingCompany.
He and Claudio Del Vecchio werehelpful when we went to adopt
(24:50):
our daughter.
They introduced us to theattorney that they had used, and
I had the opportunity to travelthe country with Martin and
with another friend of ours,alan Levine, selling custom
apparel to Brooks Brotherscustomers.
This is a man who survived oneof the most horrific times in
life and yet he had a work ethicthat was unbelievable, and I
(25:10):
remember one of his favoritecities was DC.
Colin Powell was a friend and acustomer, and I had the chance
to meet Secretary Powell throughMartin.
I remember this one night we hadbeen working for 12 hours
straight.
I was dog tired.
I could not imagine how Martinstill had any energy and the
store had closed and there was awrap on the door and somebody
(25:30):
said I rushed, I tried to get in.
I want to see Martin, I wantedto get a soup before I left.
I watched Martin just kind ofgo from that, slumped over I've
just worked 12, 14 hours topicking himself up, taking a
deep breath, turning around andwith the energy of a 21 year old
, the biggest smile and thebiggest greeting, and made that
person feel like he was thefirst customer of the day.
(25:51):
And I watched that time andtime again and it's always stuck
with me.
I think from an adviceperspective, it was from another
mentor.
I was put in a position and Idid what I felt was personally
well, but didn't receive therecognition that I thought I had
deserved.
I challenged this person whohad put me in the position, who
(26:13):
was a senior executive, and hesaid to me Rich, you didn't
learn what I wanted you to learn.
You think that respect andrecognition come from authority
and title and it's earned.
It doesn't matter what yourtitle is.
You are trying to get everybodyto learn your language.
You need to learn everybodyelse's language.
You need to learn your boss'slanguage.
(26:33):
You need to learn what otherpeople need to get out of the
equation.
Yes, you've been successful,but you haven't learned how to
truly be a leader, and a titleis not going to get that for you
, and I was pissed as hellbecause it wasn't the answer I
wanted and it burned me for acouple of months.
I continue to think about itand he and I have talked about
that day.
It's one of those things thatstuck with me throughout my
(26:56):
entire career.
That it's you earn it.
It's not a title, it's notauthority, it's not autonomy,
it's day-to-day earning it.
Gautham (27:04):
You know it's interesting, also right, the
best mentors are the people whogive it to you straight, at
least to me, like I, of course,spoke of my mother, but there
are lots of other people whoinfluenced me.
They're always the people whotook the time to be there, be
available, but also give it toyou straight no sugar coating,
maybe, because that's how I likeit, but those are the best
(27:25):
mentors.
Rich (27:26):
Well, Gautham had a chance to meet one of my mentors and
it was just, I will say Ilearned.
I have learned an immenseamount from my wife, from my
daughter, but Gautham knowsfirsthand.
The first time I came and spoketo his class, it was the first
time my daughter had visited thecollege campus.
I struggled with publicspeaking and confidence and so I
asked her to give me advice,because she struggles with it as
(27:49):
well.
I presented and I was talkingto the students afterwards and
my daughter's taught me to bemore open about having ADD and
imposter syndrome and of mychallenges, because I wasn't as
comfortable with it then.
And I looked over and I saw mydaughter had gone up to and this
is an introvert, this is a shyperson, paula, you know her well
and she was over at Gothamtaking notes.
(28:11):
How did my dad do?
How could he have done better?
I mean Gotham, it wasn't justgive me a superficial answer,
she was trying to help me getbetter.
Yep.
Gautham (28:21):
I will never forget that day because I have always
believed that you got to ask forhonest advice.
It was interesting to see aperson who I did not know at all
, right Like we had just walkedover from my office to the
classroom that's the limitedinteraction I had with her to
come up to me after that and Iwas like tell me what my dad can
(28:44):
do better.
Paula (28:44):
And I'm like oh no, no pressure, but it's just my dad
at the second right now.
Gautham (28:50):
I was like he did great , he was wonderful, he's covered
key topics, no, but what can hedo better?
I said I love that attitude.
Right, we always the growthmindset.
That's really wonderful to seeand I hope everyone has that
attitude.
Paula (29:04):
She takes her job seriously or her responsibility
seriously.
Rich (29:08):
She's probably like us and she's like a lot of people, in
that it's tough for hersometimes to speak or to carry
herself with confidence, butshe's amazing at coaching other
people and I would probably lookat the two of you and say I
could see similar traits.
I know with me it's much easierto give advice sometimes than
to get advice, but she is.
(29:29):
It's amazing to see her turninto the young woman that she is
.
Paula (29:32):
All right.
So we've talked aboutmentorship, we've talked about
our three pivotal moments.
Tell me, if I was trying to geta job with you, what is the
most important skill set thatyou look for or quality that you
look for in others?
Rich (29:46):
So you know how I always struggle with giving succinct
answers and I always have threeanswers to one question.
This one's easy, I know it'snever happened.
This one's easy Curiosity.
This one's easy, I know it'snever happened.
This one's easy Curiosity.
If you are not curious aboutpeople, about your job, about
life around you, you can be thesmartest person in the world,
(30:07):
you can have a tremendous skillset, but it means you're not
learning, you're not growing,you're not curious about your
coworkers.
Curiosity, to me, is the thingthat I am looking for the most.
Gautham (30:18):
Interesting.
Since option A is gone, I'll gowith option B.
So curiosity of course, but Ithink curiosity without ability
to connect with the human thatis across the table does not
bode well.
So in my experiences I've had alot of interaction with very,
very curious, very, very sharppeople, but their inability to
(30:39):
connect with the person acrossthe table, their inability to
see walk in their shoe, isperhaps, to me, has been a
bigger, revealing lesson, and sowhen I look at things,
especially as an academic, whereour publications take five
years, I assume curiosity isthere.
But then the most importantthing is can I grab a drink with
(31:00):
this person?
Can I actually be straight upwith him?
I can fight with him or her,but the next day we'll get back
to conversations, right, and Ikeep my circle very small and
limited for that reason.
But that's really, reallyimportant to me is their ability
to connect, the ability tospeak directly, the ability to
(31:22):
have empathy.
Paula (31:23):
So the skillset or quality I look for the most in
others is thoughtfulness.
My mom was very thoughtful.
She taught us how to be verythoughtful, but not thoughtful
as in the classic way you wouldthink of thoughtfulness.
I'm talking about that kind ofthoughtfulness that makes you
very perceptive and other peoplethink that you're very
intuitive, but you're justinsanely curious and thoughtful
(31:46):
about it and you put that intoaction.
I feel like thoughtfulness isthe result of curiosity and
action.
Okay, gotham, rapid fire, areyou ready?
Absolutely, I'll go first.
Your walk-on song.
Gautham (31:59):
I don't have any, but I will say I'm a hardcore rock
and roll person.
So if I had to pick any song,it would probably be Metallica
or Guns N' Roses.
Maybe, like Enter the Sandman,metallica might be my walk-on
song.
Rich (32:20):
Wow, you know I'm going to give you two options.
One of them would be EnterSandman by Metallica.
I had the chance to see live inconcert in San Francisco
outdoors it was phenomenal andMariana Rivera Yankees coming
out to Enter Sandman.
I mean, close it down,otherwise it would be Send in
the Clowns.
Paula (32:36):
I feel like those are two polar opposites.
Rich (32:38):
It all depends on the mood and the audience I'm speaking
to.
All right, Paula, what's yours?
Paula (32:45):
Dude, that's a hard one.
I'm going to have to punt onthat one.
But if I had to choose rightthis second, it would have to be
, you know, probably that PocketFull of Sunshine song.
I don't know why that popped inmy head, like I do not know why
.
That's the first song thatpopped in my head.
So, but actually I would haveto pick something from shakira,
because she's also from columbia.
I take it back, I would dosomething with shakira, okay,
(33:08):
next question all right, I'llask.
Rich (33:10):
You can transport yourself to anywhere in the world right
now, 24 hours.
Where do you go easy for?
Gautham (33:15):
me wimbon.
I am a diehard tennis fan.
I will take any option.
I've never been to Wimbledon towatch a game, but that will be
my option.
And if I could watch StefanEdberg play Boris Becker, that
would be even better.
Paula (33:32):
Anywhere for 24 hours and I would be safe.
So that's a tough one.
Initially I thought, botswana,I'd like to be in the middle of
nowhere with the animalsunplugged.
But then, if I would be safe, Iwould absolutely get in the
middle of like Russia or Ukraineor Iran or Gaza.
(33:54):
Like I would get right thereand see like what is going on
and get in and help, if I knewthat we would be okay.
Rich (34:01):
I like that and the interesting thing is.
So I'll answer.
And typically I've been to all50 states.
I've been to I think my countis 70 countries, and when we
retire, that's what I want to dois travel.
Retire, that's what I want todo is travel.
So you would expect my answerto be someplace I've never been,
but right now, this moment, Iwould go to Negril, seven mile
(34:24):
beach sunset with my wife.
We've been twice.
It was the first adult vacationwe took a few years ago.
The sunset in Negril is justabsolutely beautiful and I think
it would just be nice to sitthere and just soak it all in.
Gautham (34:39):
I will ask the last question, I guess, which is if
you could automate one part ofyour life, what would that be?
Paula (34:47):
Answering emails, which is getting more automated, but
like thoughtful answers andresolving problems through email
that I would automate that in aheartbeat.
Rich (34:58):
I'm actually going to have to go with the same answer and
I struggle with it.
I don't.
I have a hard time with havingmy EA go through my emails at
work because and I've got 8,000of them right now because I
don't want to take the chance ofmissing something and I use it
kind of as a disorganized filingsystem.
But it's gotten to the pointwhere, if I could trust the
(35:21):
automation, I'd love to clean upmy inbox and just simplify.
Gautham (35:26):
And for me it's going to be syllabus kind of related
right.
But, rich, you know this, atthe beginning of the semester
there are quite a few questionsthat come in that are actually
on the syllabus, and so I wasthrilled when ChatGPT finally
was available.
I'm hoping that we can embedthat into our learning systems
to answer questions, because,man, that would be amazing.
Rich (35:50):
Well, in the spirit of the fact that your daughter is
looking in the window and youhave a daddy-daughter date,
what's the ice cream of choice?
So?
Gautham (35:57):
she always gets cotton candy with a ton of sprinkles.
Like mother, like daughter,they both get the same thing.
I have to try every ice cream,so they will decide what I get.
That's always the.
Paula (36:10):
Such an academic, a thoughtful academic.
Rich (36:15):
Close out with your ice cream of choice Lime sherbet,
orange sherbet.
Gautham (36:20):
See, I can't make a decision like that, like I have
to try something different everytime.
It's like annoying.
Rich (36:27):
You got us onto this ice cream.
I'm like yeah.
Gautham (36:30):
I got you on, but we're moving on.
Rich (36:33):
Assuming they have every flavor, I would I choose between
pistachio and peppermint, butI'm I'm with gotham I.
Gautham (36:39):
I like to try just about everything I love
pistachio peppermint maybe notas much, but pistachio yes.
Hey, I love something newmetallica pistachio, awesome.
And I've got to meet matt.
Paula (36:48):
That's the the big takeaway from all this all right
, all right, go enjoy your icecream.
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