January 26, 2025 • 15 mins
Diane Wehrle CEO at Rendle Intelligence and Insights joins Simon for their monthly chat about footfall trends and shopping behaviours. They cover:
- Footfall trends from November to December 2024 covering the big festive period
- A review of 2024
- A look at the year ahead
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome to the Productivity Podcast.
Diane Wills, ceo and founder ofRendell Intelligence and
Insights, is back, and it's thebig one Di.
This one covers Christmas.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It is it's the final month of the year, the key one
for retail out there.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And are we going to be impressed?
Are we going to be disappointed?
Is it going to pan out as wethink?
Because we've had a bit of anup and down year, haven't we?
It started off a bit gloomy,got a bit better, then plateaued
off, you know, we had a changeof government, we had the
donald's empire, as we speak now.
So all the american unrest,weather wasn't great.
Um, so it's been a turbulenteconomic year and year of change
(00:36):
.
So is it?
Has it all come good at the end?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
um, I would love to say yes.
Um, unfortunately I can't saythat I thought you might say
that.
There are some indicators thatare interesting and I think it's
important for the industry tobe aware of, but generally it's
been a really challengingChristmas.
I mean, this was coming from aChristmas last year where
(01:00):
inflation was much higher,interest rates had obviously
gone up and everyone was reelingfrom that and we were hopeful
that this year would be sort ofa bit of a recovery.
That wasn't to be the case, umand but it has has yielded some
interesting trends that I thinkwe ought to keep a watch on for
the coming year, because that'sgoing to impact how retailers
(01:22):
look at their businesses to giveus the key headlines then.
Right, so we look at footfallfirst.
So footfall, obviously, numberof people, volume of customers
down in December year on year by2.2%, according to Sensomatic,
and this was better than lastDecember when it was down by 5%.
So that's something.
(01:43):
And, however, this December didnot include Black Friday this
year, so that 2.2% reductionactually includes Black Friday,
which doesn't sound verypositive, does it?
But it's coming from Novemberwhere it was down 4.5%, so it
falls down.
Sales as measured by the BRC,so this includes online and
(02:04):
offline sales, actuallyincreased in December year on
year by 3.2%, which soundsencouraging.
But November was down by 3.3%and November didn't include
Black Friday, hence 3.3% down.
December did 3.2% up.
So BRC were saying that actuallytheir narrative was that
actually December did not helpthe quarter.
The quarter was a help thequarter.
(02:24):
The quarter was a pretty awfulquarter and in terms of sales in
high streets, which is producedby Beauclair so this is
in-store sales in high streets,which is a really good barometer
of what's happening in retailgenerally sales were down by
7.9% year on year from Decemberlast year and that's the worst
(02:46):
result since about July when itwas down 9.3%.
So pretty, pretty abysmal.
But Boclair work on a calendarmonth.
So their December did notinclude Black Friday but their
November did, and sales were upby 1% in November due to the
success of Black Friday, when onthe day itself sales were 14
(03:07):
and a half percent in HighStreet.
So High Street's reallyresponded to Black Friday as we
talked about in our last yeah,we did, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
So that that that says then I suppose people have
gone early this, gone early thisyear yeah, yeah, they have gone
early um last year yeah, lastyear.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I can't.
I've got to get my head aroundwhere we're at in 2025.
So, yes, they went early, theymade the most of Black Friday
and, of course, black Friday wasa week later, so it was closer
to Christmas, so everything wasset up and running for Christmas
, so it felt like it wasChristmas trading which helped
Black Friday.
This year it wasn't helpbecause consumer confidence has
been low.
(03:43):
It was improved slightly fromNovember in December at minus
17,.
Improvement on minus 18, andthat's from GFK, but it's still
not great.
But I think what was interesting, and the interesting trend I
picked out from the Beauclairdata particularly, was that the
reduction in sales in highstreets was driven by fewer
(04:04):
customers.
We talked about the drop infootfall, fewer transactions,
but actually the ATV wasvirtually the same as last year.
So what that's telling mestraight away is that those who
have money are spending more,but there are a lot of people
out there who are spending a lotless or not spending at all,
and so it's all thispolarization of spend is taking
(04:25):
place.
So you know people with cash,who are savings, who maybe are
retired, who don't havemortgages, they're insulated,
but everyone else is reallyfinding it quite challenging.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And that's then, I suppose impacted by we talked
about it before, I think is itthe end of January 25, where
there's the next tranche ofpeople whose fixed rates
mortgage disappears.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Absolutely.
Yeah, there's a whole trancheof people coming through that
are going to see this fixed ratemortgage disappear, and, of
course, we've heard messagescoming out of the city that
interest rates are not going todrop as we'd hoped they would.
Inflation is pretty stubborn atthe moment.
It dropped in December to 2.5%from 2.6% in November, but it's
(05:15):
not moving, you know, downwardrapidly.
There are some bright spots ininflation clothing and footwear
inflation has dropped.
It's just 1.1% in December.
That which was good, but thingslike restaurants, you know
things that affect our spendingpattern they're still 3.4%.
So, you know, and of course,this is still increasing prices.
You know, though, if there'slower inflation, it's fantastic,
(05:37):
but actually it means that allthe increases we've had
historically have been now bakedin and we're seeing further
increases, so that's still achallenge for consumers I
suppose, just to give people acheck on, is the time of
recording current headlines, somorrison's the time of recording
current headlines, soMorrison's the time of recording
.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
have just announced 200 job cuts for retail people
team.
We've got Sainsbury's who'vejust announced 3,000 job cuts as
part of their looking at cost.
There's River Island cuttinghead office jobs amid profit
struggles.
Poundland have, according tothe papers, got Alex Partners in
(06:15):
looking at how they can tradetheir way out of some poor
trading conditions.
So there's not many good newsstories from big organisations
and part of me thinks that'sbased off some of the numbers
we've just discussed inChristmas, but also the pending
NI threshold drop and increasein national living wage.
So this run from Januarythrough to start of April when
(06:39):
they kick in, it could be reallysignificant in jobs,
unemployment, economy itself andset the store for the rest of
the year.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Absolutely.
And of course, you know,yesterday, as we were recording
yesterday, primark came out withsome very poor results, which
you know.
Primark have been sort of thehandrail for the high street,
you know, and they're a goodindicator of what's happening
out there because you knowthey're a value retailer,
they're the darling of the highstreet, but they trade.
They don't have a transactionalwebsite, they trade out of
store only and most of those arein high street locations and
(07:12):
they had a really tough time.
So, and most of those are inhigh street locations and they
had a really tough time.
So that's reflecting the factthat those people who don't have
spare cash are not spending.
You know, they're just feelingreally, um, really concerned.
And all this, you know the, the,the, you know the pending
impact of the increase in ni ismaking, I make, is making people
feel nervous.
They know their employers aremaking changes and cuts to try
(07:32):
and offset that.
They're aware of it and sothey're feeling vulnerable.
And in fact, um gfk, they'vereleased their consumer
confidence index for january.
So they work on a mid-monthcycle, so their january results
have just come out and actuallyconsumer confidence has dropped
from minus 17 overall indexscore in december to minus 22
january.
So that's a significant dropand that's reflecting how people
(07:56):
are feeling about.
You know their economicsituation personally and also
the wider economic situationacross the uk yeah, so just
again, just to circle back onthe primark stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
so primark uk and ireland sales declined by four
percent 16 weeks to jan fourthof jan 25, 6.8% like for like.
But then if you compare that toSpain, portugal, france, italy,
central Europe, eastern Europeand US, all increased.
So the US recorded a 17% rise,central and Eastern Europe
(08:27):
growing by 22%.
So just some wider worldwidecontext of you know it's acutely
us at the moment, unfortunatelyit is.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It is, um, I mean, primark are a new entry into the
us, so they're a bit of adarling out there, so they've
got those newbie games.
To be fair, yeah, um, andthey're going for big flagship
stores in places like chicagoand boston that are super duper,
I mean looking beautiful, um,so they in partly that will be
that, but you know, I thinkyou're under.
You're right.
It's an underlying trend herethat it's us and you know we've
(08:59):
got this, you know thing at theend of the road sitting there
waiting for us to hit us on thehead, and everyone feels it, you
know.
Company organizations feel it,consumers feel it, so people are
just railing back.
And also, the thing I haven'ttalked about this podcast yet is
savings.
People are still saving 10 oftheir household income and
(09:19):
that's a high that it's beensince covid, you know, because
people feel vulnerable, theywant some backup and so they're
trying to make sure they settheir finances straight before
they they move on and, you know,before anything happens to
their jobs.
So that is that's stillreigning in their spending.
Particularly, and also, youknow, underline that there's
structural shifts aroundconsumer demand.
(09:41):
You know we're very muchfocused on self-care and
holidays entertainment.
You know that that's ourpriority as consumers,
increasingly so.
You know, if you want a holidaythis year, you ain't, you're
not going to go out spending inthe high stream, necessarily
yeah, it's interesting a numberof conversation I've been having
over the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Uh, you know, hospitality is, is is going to
be tricky because it's wherepeople all pull back and we know
that they've already um had atricky time.
You know that whole covid andpost that people are uncertain
about recruitment.
They're uncertain around annualpay rises that typically come
April the 1st for those that areon a salary along with national
(10:21):
living wage.
So there's a real, a real senseof uncertainty, as ever.
I think the you know, thestrong will survive.
There'll be some consolidation,which is good if it keeps
people in in jobs.
But I suppose my mind's'sstarting to get to the place of.
I think this is going to bereally tricky.
To slash costs and save yourway out of it.
(10:42):
I think the smart organizationswill find the sweet spot of tech
and people and and we'll focuson driving ATV the thing I've
been talking about in a numberof sessions pre and post
Christmas is it's reallydifficult to get new customers
and to some degree in lots oforganizations that's marketing's
job, that's, you know,trading's job, buying's job.
(11:03):
As an operator, you can't goand get people off the street
and get them into your shop.
You've got to rely on othersupporting functions, but I
think businesses need to befocusing on the ATV.
If you can drive ATV, ie sellmore to the same people.
That's got to be the way to winbecause that grows sales, which
then gives you the flexibilityand the headroom to do all the
(11:26):
other stuff that you need to doto keep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Absolutely, and actually the cost of that sale
is much lower because trying toacquire new customers is much
lower.
Because you know trying toacquire new customers it's very
expensive because through themarketing function you know you
need to really push out there.
There's a lot of noise outthere.
You're absolutely right.
You know the fact that thispolarization is taking place
amongst people who have moneyare spending more and those who
are not.
If you can actually justincrease the ATV of those
(11:54):
customers and of course, oncethe customers come in the store,
just convert them.
You know conversion istypically quite low amongst a
lot of retailers.
You know, once they walkthrough the door, do everything
you can to sell them, somethingyou know and that makes because
they come in in the first placeso you don't have to incur any
(12:14):
additional costs to sell to them.
It's literally just colleagueemployee time.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
But maximize that opportunity and, as you say,
that will where the some of thethe low-hanging fruit gains will
be made yeah, and we're notgoing to do that by locking
everything up, putting it behindcabinets because shrinks high
and then having less people onthe floor.
There's a real and again it'sbeen a theme of some of the
stuff I've been talking aboutthere's a real fine line between
loss prevention and salesprevention and I think again
(12:43):
some organizations have steppedinto that.
We've reduced shrink, which Iknow is a big problem and really
challenging for everybody,certainly in customer-facing
organizations.
But sometimes what you saveyou're damaging sales and again
there'll be a turn.
People will take the cabinetsoff.
The biggest, biggest thing we'veseen to reduce shrink is having
(13:05):
a presence of people.
So the more people you canrecycle onto the floor, one back
to your point.
You've got somebody there forthe conversation Morning.
We've got this on offer.
Oh, I see you bought this.
This goes really well with it,all that stuff that you know if
it drives ATB by 50p, that'smassive.
But also helps with the shrinkpoint of view of the opportunity
(13:26):
still be put off by presence.
The professionals, the gangsunfortunately they are what they
are and that's really difficultbut the opportunities will be
put off by people being around Ithink that's absolutely right,
absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Of course, you know the additional sales you
generate can to some degreeoffset the shrink, you know, um.
So you're right, there has tobe this balance, because it is
very non-customer friendly tosee everything locked up or
empty jars and empty pots andall that sort of stuff, and you
know customers know that.
Then, when retailers do it,that their priority is about
(14:01):
security and it's not a nicebuying experience and it just
pushes you either to anotherretailer or online because it
becomes very transactional yeah,absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
So I think there's there's lots to play for.
Let's finish on a positive notebecause, um, there's been some
quite significant figures,certainly some negative ones.
I think there's lots of lots toplay for and for me, the key is
I don't think you can just saveyour way out of this.
You've got to be tactical insome areas, as we've talked
about what's happening in thepress, but actually,
strategically, it's got to beabout people.
(14:32):
It's got to be about drivingatv.
That's where the opportunityand sales mass, everything.
Once sales start to grow, itgives you so much flex and so
much belief in a business.
All the, all the doom and gloomdisappears.
So that's the positive for me.
Um, we'll see what januaryholds die.
I have a funny feeling we mightbe repeating some of this
conversation in feb.
(14:53):
Um yeah but uh, but let's see,and thanks again for joining us,
thanks for 2024 and we'll keepthe conversation going this year
great, that's been great.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Simon, really look forward to every month good,
we'll catch you soon take carebye.
Welcome to the Productivity Podcast.
Diane Wills, ceo and founder ofRendell Intelligence and
Insights, is back, and it's thebig one Di.
This one covers Christmas.
Speaker 2 (00:10):
It is it's the final month of the year, the key one
for retail out there.
Speaker 1 (00:15):
And are we going to be impressed?
Are we going to be disappointed?
Is it going to pan out as wethink?
Because we've had a bit of anup and down year, haven't we?
It started off a bit gloomy,got a bit better, then plateaued
off, you know, we had a changeof government, we had the
donald's empire, as we speak now.
So all the american unrest,weather wasn't great.
Um, so it's been a turbulenteconomic year and year of change
(00:36):
.
So is it?
Has it all come good at the end?
Speaker 2 (00:39):
um, I would love to say yes.
Um, unfortunately I can't saythat I thought you might say
that.
There are some indicators thatare interesting and I think it's
important for the industry tobe aware of, but generally it's
been a really challengingChristmas.
I mean, this was coming from aChristmas last year where
(01:00):
inflation was much higher,interest rates had obviously
gone up and everyone was reelingfrom that and we were hopeful
that this year would be sort ofa bit of a recovery.
That wasn't to be the case, umand but it has has yielded some
interesting trends that I thinkwe ought to keep a watch on for
the coming year, because that'sgoing to impact how retailers
(01:22):
look at their businesses to giveus the key headlines then.
Right, so we look at footfallfirst.
So footfall, obviously, numberof people, volume of customers
down in December year on year by2.2%, according to Sensomatic,
and this was better than lastDecember when it was down by 5%.
So that's something.
(01:43):
And, however, this December didnot include Black Friday this
year, so that 2.2% reductionactually includes Black Friday,
which doesn't sound verypositive, does it?
But it's coming from Novemberwhere it was down 4.5%, so it
falls down.
Sales as measured by the BRC,so this includes online and
(02:04):
offline sales, actuallyincreased in December year on
year by 3.2%, which soundsencouraging.
But November was down by 3.3%and November didn't include
Black Friday, hence 3.3% down.
December did 3.2% up.
So BRC were saying that actuallytheir narrative was that
actually December did not helpthe quarter.
The quarter was a help thequarter.
(02:24):
The quarter was a pretty awfulquarter and in terms of sales in
high streets, which is producedby Beauclair so this is
in-store sales in high streets,which is a really good barometer
of what's happening in retailgenerally sales were down by
7.9% year on year from Decemberlast year and that's the worst
(02:46):
result since about July when itwas down 9.3%.
So pretty, pretty abysmal.
But Boclair work on a calendarmonth.
So their December did notinclude Black Friday but their
November did, and sales were upby 1% in November due to the
success of Black Friday, when onthe day itself sales were 14
(03:07):
and a half percent in HighStreet.
So High Street's reallyresponded to Black Friday as we
talked about in our last yeah,we did, yeah.
Speaker 1 (03:14):
So that that that says then I suppose people have
gone early this, gone early thisyear yeah, yeah, they have gone
early um last year yeah, lastyear.
Speaker 2 (03:23):
I can't.
I've got to get my head aroundwhere we're at in 2025.
So, yes, they went early, theymade the most of Black Friday
and, of course, black Friday wasa week later, so it was closer
to Christmas, so everything wasset up and running for Christmas
, so it felt like it wasChristmas trading which helped
Black Friday.
This year it wasn't helpbecause consumer confidence has
been low.
(03:43):
It was improved slightly fromNovember in December at minus
17,.
Improvement on minus 18, andthat's from GFK, but it's still
not great.
But I think what was interesting, and the interesting trend I
picked out from the Beauclairdata particularly, was that the
reduction in sales in highstreets was driven by fewer
(04:04):
customers.
We talked about the drop infootfall, fewer transactions,
but actually the ATV wasvirtually the same as last year.
So what that's telling mestraight away is that those who
have money are spending more,but there are a lot of people
out there who are spending a lotless or not spending at all,
and so it's all thispolarization of spend is taking
(04:25):
place.
So you know people with cash,who are savings, who maybe are
retired, who don't havemortgages, they're insulated,
but everyone else is reallyfinding it quite challenging.
Speaker 1 (04:37):
And that's then, I suppose impacted by we talked
about it before, I think is itthe end of January 25, where
there's the next tranche ofpeople whose fixed rates
mortgage disappears.
Speaker 2 (04:49):
Absolutely.
Yeah, there's a whole trancheof people coming through that
are going to see this fixed ratemortgage disappear, and, of
course, we've heard messagescoming out of the city that
interest rates are not going todrop as we'd hoped they would.
Inflation is pretty stubborn atthe moment.
It dropped in December to 2.5%from 2.6% in November, but it's
(05:15):
not moving, you know, downwardrapidly.
There are some bright spots ininflation clothing and footwear
inflation has dropped.
It's just 1.1% in December.
That which was good, but thingslike restaurants, you know
things that affect our spendingpattern they're still 3.4%.
So, you know, and of course,this is still increasing prices.
You know, though, if there'slower inflation, it's fantastic,
(05:37):
but actually it means that allthe increases we've had
historically have been now bakedin and we're seeing further
increases, so that's still achallenge for consumers I
suppose, just to give people acheck on, is the time of
recording current headlines, somorrison's the time of recording
current headlines, soMorrison's the time of recording
.
Speaker 1 (05:54):
have just announced 200 job cuts for retail people
team.
We've got Sainsbury's who'vejust announced 3,000 job cuts as
part of their looking at cost.
There's River Island cuttinghead office jobs amid profit
struggles.
Poundland have, according tothe papers, got Alex Partners in
(06:15):
looking at how they can tradetheir way out of some poor
trading conditions.
So there's not many good newsstories from big organisations
and part of me thinks that'sbased off some of the numbers
we've just discussed inChristmas, but also the pending
NI threshold drop and increasein national living wage.
So this run from Januarythrough to start of April when
(06:39):
they kick in, it could be reallysignificant in jobs,
unemployment, economy itself andset the store for the rest of
the year.
Speaker 2 (06:49):
Absolutely.
And of course, you know,yesterday, as we were recording
yesterday, primark came out withsome very poor results, which
you know.
Primark have been sort of thehandrail for the high street,
you know, and they're a goodindicator of what's happening
out there because you knowthey're a value retailer,
they're the darling of the highstreet, but they trade.
They don't have a transactionalwebsite, they trade out of
store only and most of those arein high street locations and
(07:12):
they had a really tough time.
So, and most of those are inhigh street locations and they
had a really tough time.
So that's reflecting the factthat those people who don't have
spare cash are not spending.
You know, they're just feelingreally, um, really concerned.
And all this, you know the, the,the, you know the pending
impact of the increase in ni ismaking, I make, is making people
feel nervous.
They know their employers aremaking changes and cuts to try
(07:32):
and offset that.
They're aware of it and sothey're feeling vulnerable.
And in fact, um gfk, they'vereleased their consumer
confidence index for january.
So they work on a mid-monthcycle, so their january results
have just come out and actuallyconsumer confidence has dropped
from minus 17 overall indexscore in december to minus 22
january.
So that's a significant dropand that's reflecting how people
(07:56):
are feeling about.
You know their economicsituation personally and also
the wider economic situationacross the uk yeah, so just
again, just to circle back onthe primark stuff.
Speaker 1 (08:06):
so primark uk and ireland sales declined by four
percent 16 weeks to jan fourthof jan 25, 6.8% like for like.
But then if you compare that toSpain, portugal, france, italy,
central Europe, eastern Europeand US, all increased.
So the US recorded a 17% rise,central and Eastern Europe
(08:27):
growing by 22%.
So just some wider worldwidecontext of you know it's acutely
us at the moment, unfortunatelyit is.
Speaker 2 (08:36):
It is, um, I mean, primark are a new entry into the
us, so they're a bit of adarling out there, so they've
got those newbie games.
To be fair, yeah, um, andthey're going for big flagship
stores in places like chicagoand boston that are super duper,
I mean looking beautiful, um,so they in partly that will be
that, but you know, I thinkyou're under.
You're right.
It's an underlying trend herethat it's us and you know we've
(08:59):
got this, you know thing at theend of the road sitting there
waiting for us to hit us on thehead, and everyone feels it, you
know.
Company organizations feel it,consumers feel it, so people are
just railing back.
And also, the thing I haven'ttalked about this podcast yet is
savings.
People are still saving 10 oftheir household income and
(09:19):
that's a high that it's beensince covid, you know, because
people feel vulnerable, theywant some backup and so they're
trying to make sure they settheir finances straight before
they they move on and, you know,before anything happens to
their jobs.
So that is that's stillreigning in their spending.
Particularly, and also, youknow, underline that there's
structural shifts aroundconsumer demand.
(09:41):
You know we're very muchfocused on self-care and
holidays entertainment.
You know that that's ourpriority as consumers,
increasingly so.
You know, if you want a holidaythis year, you ain't, you're
not going to go out spending inthe high stream, necessarily
yeah, it's interesting a numberof conversation I've been having
over the last couple of weeks.
Speaker 1 (10:00):
Uh, you know, hospitality is, is is going to
be tricky because it's wherepeople all pull back and we know
that they've already um had atricky time.
You know that whole covid andpost that people are uncertain
about recruitment.
They're uncertain around annualpay rises that typically come
April the 1st for those that areon a salary along with national
(10:21):
living wage.
So there's a real, a real senseof uncertainty, as ever.
I think the you know, thestrong will survive.
There'll be some consolidation,which is good if it keeps
people in in jobs.
But I suppose my mind's'sstarting to get to the place of.
I think this is going to bereally tricky.
To slash costs and save yourway out of it.
(10:42):
I think the smart organizationswill find the sweet spot of tech
and people and and we'll focuson driving ATV the thing I've
been talking about in a numberof sessions pre and post
Christmas is it's reallydifficult to get new customers
and to some degree in lots oforganizations that's marketing's
job, that's, you know,trading's job, buying's job.
(11:03):
As an operator, you can't goand get people off the street
and get them into your shop.
You've got to rely on othersupporting functions, but I
think businesses need to befocusing on the ATV.
If you can drive ATV, ie sellmore to the same people.
That's got to be the way to winbecause that grows sales, which
then gives you the flexibilityand the headroom to do all the
(11:26):
other stuff that you need to doto keep moving forward.
Speaker 2 (11:30):
Absolutely, and actually the cost of that sale
is much lower because trying toacquire new customers is much
lower.
Because you know trying toacquire new customers it's very
expensive because through themarketing function you know you
need to really push out there.
There's a lot of noise outthere.
You're absolutely right.
You know the fact that thispolarization is taking place
amongst people who have moneyare spending more and those who
are not.
If you can actually justincrease the ATV of those
(11:54):
customers and of course, oncethe customers come in the store,
just convert them.
You know conversion istypically quite low amongst a
lot of retailers.
You know, once they walkthrough the door, do everything
you can to sell them, somethingyou know and that makes because
they come in in the first placeso you don't have to incur any
(12:14):
additional costs to sell to them.
It's literally just colleagueemployee time.
Speaker 1 (12:20):
But maximize that opportunity and, as you say,
that will where the some of thethe low-hanging fruit gains will
be made yeah, and we're notgoing to do that by locking
everything up, putting it behindcabinets because shrinks high
and then having less people onthe floor.
There's a real and again it'sbeen a theme of some of the
stuff I've been talking aboutthere's a real fine line between
loss prevention and salesprevention and I think again
(12:43):
some organizations have steppedinto that.
We've reduced shrink, which Iknow is a big problem and really
challenging for everybody,certainly in customer-facing
organizations.
But sometimes what you saveyou're damaging sales and again
there'll be a turn.
People will take the cabinetsoff.
The biggest, biggest thing we'veseen to reduce shrink is having
(13:05):
a presence of people.
So the more people you canrecycle onto the floor, one back
to your point.
You've got somebody there forthe conversation Morning.
We've got this on offer.
Oh, I see you bought this.
This goes really well with it,all that stuff that you know if
it drives ATB by 50p, that'smassive.
But also helps with the shrinkpoint of view of the opportunity
(13:26):
still be put off by presence.
The professionals, the gangsunfortunately they are what they
are and that's really difficultbut the opportunities will be
put off by people being around Ithink that's absolutely right,
absolutely right.
Speaker 2 (13:37):
Of course, you know the additional sales you
generate can to some degreeoffset the shrink, you know, um.
So you're right, there has tobe this balance, because it is
very non-customer friendly tosee everything locked up or
empty jars and empty pots andall that sort of stuff, and you
know customers know that.
Then, when retailers do it,that their priority is about
(14:01):
security and it's not a nicebuying experience and it just
pushes you either to anotherretailer or online because it
becomes very transactional yeah,absolutely, absolutely.
Speaker 1 (14:11):
So I think there's there's lots to play for.
Let's finish on a positive notebecause, um, there's been some
quite significant figures,certainly some negative ones.
I think there's lots of lots toplay for and for me, the key is
I don't think you can just saveyour way out of this.
You've got to be tactical insome areas, as we've talked
about what's happening in thepress, but actually,
strategically, it's got to beabout people.
(14:32):
It's got to be about drivingatv.
That's where the opportunityand sales mass, everything.
Once sales start to grow, itgives you so much flex and so
much belief in a business.
All the, all the doom and gloomdisappears.
So that's the positive for me.
Um, we'll see what januaryholds die.
I have a funny feeling we mightbe repeating some of this
conversation in feb.
(14:53):
Um yeah but uh, but let's see,and thanks again for joining us,
thanks for 2024 and we'll keepthe conversation going this year
great, that's been great.
Speaker 2 (15:02):
Simon, really look forward to every month good,
we'll catch you soon take carebye.
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