December 14, 2025 • 16 mins
Hear directly from our experts—Sue, Simon, & James—who share real-world trends, new data findings, and actionable productivity insights
We unpack the wage rise headlines and the quiet costs they trigger up the ladder, then move to peak‑time realities: queues, break timing, and the real use of self‑checkout. We finish with fast wins in quick‑serve layouts and why adoption fails without hands‑on coaching.
• Wage increases by age bands and implications for costs
• Compression of supervisory pay differentials
• Leaders pulled into front‑line tasks reducing leadership capacity
• Queues at peak despite self‑checkout availability
• Break timing clashing with customer demand
• Micro‑improvements in quick‑serve cycle times
• Layout tweaks, tool placement, and motion design
• Training and engagement to adopt new kit and processes
Keep an eye out for those queues at peak, everybody listening, and see if you can identify the issues, we'll be back in the new year
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:10):
Welcome to the Productivity Podcast.
This is the Productivity Pulsenumber two, and I am joined yet
again by Sue and James.
Hi Sue.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
Hello.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Hi James.
Hi Simon.
So thanks for joining again.
I'm sure we'll have aninteresting debate as ever
today.
Just want to start with what wasbreaking news a couple of weeks
ago, isn't so much now, but goodto get your thoughts on the
government announcing thenational minimum wage increase
from 1st of April 2026.
So for those, and I'm sureeverybody does know, but as a
(00:42):
reminder, for over 21s, they'llget a 4.1% increase to£12.71 an
hour.
Anybody between 18 and 20 willget an 8.5% increase to£10.85 an
hour.
And 16 to 70 year olds and thosewho are on apprenticeships get a
6% increase which will work out£8 an hour.
(01:03):
So good news for everybody inthose brackets.
Sue, your initial thoughts whenit was announced.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
It's interesting that it it kind of uh layers on
top of other things that arehappening.
I suppose it wasn't a surprisethat it went up.
If you then think on top ofthat, the national insurance,
the employees' nationalinsurance contributions are then
on that higher amount.
And then there's lots ofdiscussions about, particularly
in hospitality, about the impactof rates, which I think it's not
(01:34):
quite clear what the full impactof that's going to be.
So it's it's you know,businesses are dealing with a
whole load of lots of littleamounts of increases, but if
you're dealing with those onlots of fronts, there's some
total effect can be a reasonablyhigh impact that people have to
consider.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
Yeah, agreed.
And and James, your your initialthoughts?
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
Just that it is ever more important to understand
where people are spending thattime because it's getting more
expensive.
SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
And and Sue, just before we moveon to the the next kind of
conversation topic, the onething that always amazes me
that's never in the press iskind of the upward pressure on
salary, then.
So that's great.
Those people are getting 4.1,8.5%, 6% pay rises.
But I know we talk about it alot, we talked about it a lot at
the forum this year, and I'msure it will be on the agenda
(02:25):
next year.
That differential then betweensupervisory roles, team leaders,
deputies, assistants, storemanagers closes.
So it that those headlinefigures are great, but it's not
the total cost, is it?
Because actually you end uphaving to keep that differential
or accept the fact you shrinkthat differential for every for
all the roles above that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
Yeah, and I think for years there's been, if I
think back to my years inretail, there's been people that
have looked at sort ofleadership jobs and said, Do you
know what?
It's not a big enough increaseto make it worthwhile me taking
on all that hassle.
And the challenges is that gapshrinks if you don't keep moving
up all your costs in the sameline, then it becomes you know a
(03:07):
small salary differential for alot more work.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Yeah, and I'd argue are the people that are getting
these pay rise doing more forit, or actually, since national
living wage kind of 10 yearsago, are the people actually
doing the same job and we'repaying them more, which probably
is the case.
But again, it's about back toJames's point, getting the most
out of the processing there forthe people.
And to finish this this part ofthe kind of conversation, that
(03:35):
increase of 4.1%,£12.71 meanssomebody who kind of works 40
hours a week over the course ofa year is on about£26,000 a
year.
So, you know, great that we'rebringing people up to a good
level, a good standard, butthat's an interesting number
based on what people be payingfor the roles above it.
(03:55):
So again, pushing that inflationup the hierarchy in lots of
organizations.
SPEAKER_02 (04:01):
Well, and then we've seen that you know, we we talked
about it in the last podcast,and we've seen it in studies
that we've done since.
Leaders get paid more.
You know, you want to keep thatdiff differential there and pay
them even more.
Most of them are stacking shellshalf the time, they're not even
doing leadership stuff.
You really need to get on top ofwhat they're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Yeah, exactly.
I I always say to people it canbe an expensive way to stack
shells, can't it?
Which nicely, as if we'd talkedabout this before we started
recording, leads us into peak.
So we're recording this kind ofjust two weeks out before
Christmas Day.
I'm sure you've all been outshopping or will be out shopping
in the next couple of days, weekor so to get your final presence
(04:39):
and food.
So, Sue, I know you've beendoing a lot of work with clients
lately around kind of peak andself-checkout, and as we
approach the peak of the festiveperiod, or use peak again, I'm
sure.
What things have you beentalking to them about based on
the data the team have capturedand James has analysed and
provided the insights for?
SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
As we talked about last time, we've seen increasing
trends that as salary budgetshave tightened versus the
workload, there is a risk thatas the workload, the resource
isn't there for the peak timesbecause there just isn't that
same flexibility in theschedules.
And we've seen a couple morestudies over the last month
(05:24):
where at busy the busiest times,so Saturday afternoons, that
sort of thing, we're actuallyseeing quite big queues.
And interestingly, it is inplaces where they've often got
self-checkout tills available.
I think people get caught on theon the assisted tills head down
with the queue.
It's then hard to find the timeto heads up and think, actually,
(05:46):
I could probably have onecolleague looking after four
customers if they were using aself-checkout till, as opposed
to having this queue of eightpeople with two people on the
tills.
So it it remains a challenge.
And I think James has spottedsome other things in the data as
well.
SPEAKER_02 (06:01):
Well, I've seen on a couple of recent projects when
there have been the mostcustomers in the store, there's
also been the most break time.
And I know it's difficult in instores when you have people on
certain shifts, they need tohave breaks at certain times.
But in one client in particular,it almost looked like the team
were thinking, great, we've gotall the stock on the on the
(06:21):
shelves, everything's lookinggood, now we can take a break.
And then they let the queuebuild up while they're having
their break and then come backand serve customers when they've
when they're finished.
And surely it would be better toleave the store standards
slightly lower and serve thecustomers and get them through
uh when when you're busy, andthen schedule the the restocking
and the breaks at a differenttime.
It's easy for me to say sittinganalysing the data in Excel, but
(06:44):
just you know, we're seeing over10% break time uh uh at these
peak customer times, it justseems a little bit
counterintuitive to me.
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Yeah, and there's people have looked at different
patterns for breaks.
So there's there's generallysome flexibility, even if you
know there are legalrequirements about break periods
after working, you know, acertain number of hours.
But generally there are somethere is some flexibility.
And people have done things likeinstead of having one break sort
(07:13):
of a longer lunch break, whichis often when you're busiest, do
you have two shorter breaks, solike half an hour breaks or
something, where you put them inthe um in the shoulder hours, if
you like, of so you're avoidingthat peak time.
You just have to be careful toavoid what we saw in in another
client's data, where they'dintroduced extra breaks in the
(07:36):
morning and the afternoon.
And actually, what they found isthat often when colleagues go on
break, the time that I take towalk to the break room, I don't
count as my break.
So my break starts when I get tothe break room, I then have my
10 minutes, I then need to putmy stuff back in the locker, I
need to go to the toilet, andthen I walk back to my
(07:57):
workstation.
So that 10-minute break isactually causing you know 20
minutes of downtime for thebusiness.
So having two of those breaks isactually causing a you know a
bigger loss to the business, ifyou like, than just having one
break.
So there's a there's a sweetspot of having decent, chunky
enough size breaks that peoplearen't losing lots of time going
(08:20):
backwards and forwards to break,but then not just having one big
lump of break that has to happenwhen the customers want you as
well.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
And I suppose as add to that, a lot of the
organizations now across theworld are using their workforce
management solutions to helpschedule a break, and it's
always been that really trickyone back to James's point of how
does it know about customersbecause it's doing some
mathematical calculation.
So I always find thatinteresting when break automatic
(08:50):
break planning doesn'tnecessarily match what the
organization needs at thatmoment in time versus customer
demand or density or whatever itmight be.
SPEAKER_02 (08:58):
Yeah, we saw on uh on a recent management study
quite a lot of time devoted tochanging the automatic schedule
and you know, manually managingwhen people should take their
breaks through the day so thereare a minimum number there,
which is also, I guess, anotherhidden cost of the breaks is how
how long are your managersspending coordinating it.
Yeah, it's a tricky one tobalance.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
Interesting.
So keep an eye if you're outshopping, have a look at uh
where there's potential cues orpeople manning their
self-checkouts, and I supposemake make your own conclusions
of of how and why that is.
So you've you've also been doingsome really interesting work on
I'd call it new kit, but I thinkmore fundamentally new layout in
more of the restaurant quickserve area that you'd like to
(09:39):
talk about.
SPEAKER_00 (09:40):
Yeah, we've been doing quite a lot with different
quick serve restaurant brandsrecently.
And I always find it reallyinteresting how just tiny tweaks
can make such a difference.
And we're talking about thingsthat'll shave seconds off a
task.
So it might be building a burgeror making a coffee or but if
(10:02):
there are the things that yourteam are doing all day, every
day, those time savings reallyadd up.
And again, if we're going tomention the peak word again,
what matters when you'regenerally in those quick serve
restaurants is you've got highdemand for a concentrated period
of time.
So increasing your throughputcapacity at those busy times
(10:23):
actually can help drive yoursales because you've got high
demand.
How do you meet that demand andtherefore optimise what your
sales are?
That's by getting your capacityright.
So if you can take a few secondsoff and look at how many more of
whatever it is you can producein that time, then it makes a
big difference.
And it it's really simple thingsthat when you stand back and
(10:45):
think about it, they're reallyobvious.
Yet when your head's down in theoperation and kind of it's all
flying at you, then it's not soeasy to see.
And we've seen things like it'swhere people are keeping the
different utensils that theyneed to hand.
In one operation, they had touse tongs to pick up products to
move them from one place toanother.
(11:05):
They kept those tongs in a boxwith a lid on it.
So every time they wanted theturn the tongs, they had to take
the lid off the box, then pickup the tongs, then put the lid
on the box, use the tongs, andthen repeat the whole lid on and
off process again.
And they weren't even doing ittwo-handed, they'd pick the lid
up, actually put it down on thebench, and then pick it up
(11:26):
again.
It wasn't even just holding itand you know, taking the tongs
out while that that's happening.
So it sounds something reallysimple, but it just adds so much
time into the process.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
And from an engagement point of view, where
you've seen new or touch brieflyon layouts, how do you how does
that typically work when processchange or layout change?
I think people are very good atprobably the plan, the fit out,
the the physical aspect of it,but does that always flow
(12:01):
through in terms of how the teamthen engage with it and and see
the benefits or don't see thebenefits?
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Yeah, that's another thing we've seen quite a bit all
recently.
And if I think back over time,we've done uh done lots of times
when we've been asked to go intomeasure the impact of either a
new layout or a new piece of kitbeing added in.
And I can't think of a singletime where it's actually worked
as people are expected to.
Usually because colleaguesaren't working with the kit the
(12:30):
way they were expected to, orand sometimes we've had people
that don't know how to use itand we've actually been saying,
Oh, did you know it's got thisfunction?
It was supposed to be one of thethings we're there to measure,
but the team don't even know ithappened.
But actually, what it's humannature that people default back
to the way they used to workunless you really help them get
(12:50):
to that new way of doing it.
So we were looking at a arevised layout recently to help
improve the workflow.
And actually the colleagues werestill working in it like they
did in the old one.
It just it wasn't quite as easyto work into the on because the
light was trying to get them towork differently, and yet they
were not doing that.
(13:11):
And it it needs that realengagement piece and that how
you really work with it andengage with it needs to be, you
know, trained into people andhave conversations and the role
of the leaders or theoperational leads in there to
help people stick with that newway of working.
Because it's like that old trickwhere if you fold your arms one
(13:31):
way and then you fold them theother way, one way feels much
more comfortable than the other.
You know, anytime you're askingyour teams to do something
different, whether it's with anew piece of kit, work with a
new layout, it is it's thatfeeling of trying to cross your
hands the other way.
And you've got to really helpthem do it.
And that as you said, I thinkthere's a lot of time and effort
going into making sure all thekit arrives, everything's
(13:52):
plumbed in or whatever needs tohappen.
But actually, perhaps that pieceabout and how are your teams
going to work with it and andreally get to grips with it and
get the most of it, it's perhapsa little neglected at times.
SPEAKER_01 (14:05):
And that must be a challenge because lots of these
programs are based onefficiencies, aren't they?
So that there'll be some they'renot free, right?
So somebody, there's a way youhave to pay for it somewhere,
typically through labour,through an efficiency.
So if you've spent spent themoney and then not received the
efficiency, it's the worst ofeverything, right?
SPEAKER_00 (14:25):
Yes, you end up with potentially the worst of all
ones, don't you?
If you've spent the money andnot saved any costs.
Or even worse, if you spend themoney, you then take out the
salary and the people still workas they did.
What you've done is eitherreduced the quality of the
service or you've reduced yourcapacity and therefore your
sales are going to go down.
You know, it can happen.
(14:46):
It's not a good end solution,whichever way around it happens.
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
And James, when you look at the data for these types
of projects, is it kind of clearthat things haven't necessarily
moved, or are there exampleswhere it's moved really well?
SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
I know.
I mean, there are alwaysexamples where it's moved really
well.
But I think it doesn't justapply to new Git, it's new
processes, new new softwarepackages as well.
Working with a client recentlywho was saying, you know, oh,
everybody should be doing usingthis tool and they should use it
once a day.
And when we went into thestores, actually they were doing
it once or twice a week and theyweren't using the new tool
(15:21):
because I still thought it wasright.
And that's where the umconstructed interviews were
useful and just kind of talkingto a few people they're able to
feedback on on why they weren'tusing it.
And I suspect it's a wholedifferent podcast episode or
maybe even a series, but youknow, start with engaging people
and then launch the tool.
Don't launch the tool and thentry and engage them in using it.
SPEAKER_01 (15:43):
Yeah, and I think we've probably all had
experiences in our work lifewhere we've we've been given
something and technology getseasier.
Nobody has a user manual fortheir iPhone, do they, or or
Google Phone anymore, whichmaybe is where the assumptions
made it's easy to do.
But yeah, I suspect we've allcertainly on this podcast, and
maybe a lot of those listeninghave had experiences where
things have been assumed, andactually the reality in the
(16:05):
operation means that it's it'snot possible or slightly
different, or there's amisunderstanding.
And back to Sue's point of didyou know it did this?
No, you're just losing losingbenefit.
So we'll pause there for thisepisode.
Thank you, Sue.
Thank you, James.
Keep an eye out for those cuesat peak, everybody listening,
and uh see if you can identifythe issues, and we'll be back in
(16:27):
the new year.
Thanks both.
Cheers, I mean, bye.
Welcome to the Productivity Podcast.
This is the Productivity Pulsenumber two, and I am joined yet
again by Sue and James.
Hi Sue.
SPEAKER_00 (00:20):
Hello.
SPEAKER_01 (00:20):
Hi James.
Hi Simon.
So thanks for joining again.
I'm sure we'll have aninteresting debate as ever
today.
Just want to start with what wasbreaking news a couple of weeks
ago, isn't so much now, but goodto get your thoughts on the
government announcing thenational minimum wage increase
from 1st of April 2026.
So for those, and I'm sureeverybody does know, but as a
(00:42):
reminder, for over 21s, they'llget a 4.1% increase to£12.71 an
hour.
Anybody between 18 and 20 willget an 8.5% increase to£10.85 an
hour.
And 16 to 70 year olds and thosewho are on apprenticeships get a
6% increase which will work out£8 an hour.
(01:03):
So good news for everybody inthose brackets.
Sue, your initial thoughts whenit was announced.
SPEAKER_00 (01:13):
It's interesting that it it kind of uh layers on
top of other things that arehappening.
I suppose it wasn't a surprisethat it went up.
If you then think on top ofthat, the national insurance,
the employees' nationalinsurance contributions are then
on that higher amount.
And then there's lots ofdiscussions about, particularly
in hospitality, about the impactof rates, which I think it's not
(01:34):
quite clear what the full impactof that's going to be.
So it's it's you know,businesses are dealing with a
whole load of lots of littleamounts of increases, but if
you're dealing with those onlots of fronts, there's some
total effect can be a reasonablyhigh impact that people have to
consider.
SPEAKER_01 (01:53):
Yeah, agreed.
And and James, your your initialthoughts?
SPEAKER_02 (01:57):
Just that it is ever more important to understand
where people are spending thattime because it's getting more
expensive.
SPEAKER_01 (02:03):
Yeah, absolutely.
And and Sue, just before we moveon to the the next kind of
conversation topic, the onething that always amazes me
that's never in the press iskind of the upward pressure on
salary, then.
So that's great.
Those people are getting 4.1,8.5%, 6% pay rises.
But I know we talk about it alot, we talked about it a lot at
the forum this year, and I'msure it will be on the agenda
(02:25):
next year.
That differential then betweensupervisory roles, team leaders,
deputies, assistants, storemanagers closes.
So it that those headlinefigures are great, but it's not
the total cost, is it?
Because actually you end uphaving to keep that differential
or accept the fact you shrinkthat differential for every for
all the roles above that.
SPEAKER_00 (02:46):
Yeah, and I think for years there's been, if I
think back to my years inretail, there's been people that
have looked at sort ofleadership jobs and said, Do you
know what?
It's not a big enough increaseto make it worthwhile me taking
on all that hassle.
And the challenges is that gapshrinks if you don't keep moving
up all your costs in the sameline, then it becomes you know a
(03:07):
small salary differential for alot more work.
SPEAKER_01 (03:11):
Yeah, and I'd argue are the people that are getting
these pay rise doing more forit, or actually, since national
living wage kind of 10 yearsago, are the people actually
doing the same job and we'repaying them more, which probably
is the case.
But again, it's about back toJames's point, getting the most
out of the processing there forthe people.
And to finish this this part ofthe kind of conversation, that
(03:35):
increase of 4.1%,£12.71 meanssomebody who kind of works 40
hours a week over the course ofa year is on about£26,000 a
year.
So, you know, great that we'rebringing people up to a good
level, a good standard, butthat's an interesting number
based on what people be payingfor the roles above it.
(03:55):
So again, pushing that inflationup the hierarchy in lots of
organizations.
SPEAKER_02 (04:01):
Well, and then we've seen that you know, we we talked
about it in the last podcast,and we've seen it in studies
that we've done since.
Leaders get paid more.
You know, you want to keep thatdiff differential there and pay
them even more.
Most of them are stacking shellshalf the time, they're not even
doing leadership stuff.
You really need to get on top ofwhat they're doing.
SPEAKER_01 (04:17):
Yeah, exactly.
I I always say to people it canbe an expensive way to stack
shells, can't it?
Which nicely, as if we'd talkedabout this before we started
recording, leads us into peak.
So we're recording this kind ofjust two weeks out before
Christmas Day.
I'm sure you've all been outshopping or will be out shopping
in the next couple of days, weekor so to get your final presence
(04:39):
and food.
So, Sue, I know you've beendoing a lot of work with clients
lately around kind of peak andself-checkout, and as we
approach the peak of the festiveperiod, or use peak again, I'm
sure.
What things have you beentalking to them about based on
the data the team have capturedand James has analysed and
provided the insights for?
SPEAKER_00 (05:01):
As we talked about last time, we've seen increasing
trends that as salary budgetshave tightened versus the
workload, there is a risk thatas the workload, the resource
isn't there for the peak timesbecause there just isn't that
same flexibility in theschedules.
And we've seen a couple morestudies over the last month
(05:24):
where at busy the busiest times,so Saturday afternoons, that
sort of thing, we're actuallyseeing quite big queues.
And interestingly, it is inplaces where they've often got
self-checkout tills available.
I think people get caught on theon the assisted tills head down
with the queue.
It's then hard to find the timeto heads up and think, actually,
(05:46):
I could probably have onecolleague looking after four
customers if they were using aself-checkout till, as opposed
to having this queue of eightpeople with two people on the
tills.
So it it remains a challenge.
And I think James has spottedsome other things in the data as
well.
SPEAKER_02 (06:01):
Well, I've seen on a couple of recent projects when
there have been the mostcustomers in the store, there's
also been the most break time.
And I know it's difficult in instores when you have people on
certain shifts, they need tohave breaks at certain times.
But in one client in particular,it almost looked like the team
were thinking, great, we've gotall the stock on the on the
(06:21):
shelves, everything's lookinggood, now we can take a break.
And then they let the queuebuild up while they're having
their break and then come backand serve customers when they've
when they're finished.
And surely it would be better toleave the store standards
slightly lower and serve thecustomers and get them through
uh when when you're busy, andthen schedule the the restocking
and the breaks at a differenttime.
It's easy for me to say sittinganalysing the data in Excel, but
(06:44):
just you know, we're seeing over10% break time uh uh at these
peak customer times, it justseems a little bit
counterintuitive to me.
SPEAKER_00 (06:52):
Yeah, and there's people have looked at different
patterns for breaks.
So there's there's generallysome flexibility, even if you
know there are legalrequirements about break periods
after working, you know, acertain number of hours.
But generally there are somethere is some flexibility.
And people have done things likeinstead of having one break sort
(07:13):
of a longer lunch break, whichis often when you're busiest, do
you have two shorter breaks, solike half an hour breaks or
something, where you put them inthe um in the shoulder hours, if
you like, of so you're avoidingthat peak time.
You just have to be careful toavoid what we saw in in another
client's data, where they'dintroduced extra breaks in the
(07:36):
morning and the afternoon.
And actually, what they found isthat often when colleagues go on
break, the time that I take towalk to the break room, I don't
count as my break.
So my break starts when I get tothe break room, I then have my
10 minutes, I then need to putmy stuff back in the locker, I
need to go to the toilet, andthen I walk back to my
(07:57):
workstation.
So that 10-minute break isactually causing you know 20
minutes of downtime for thebusiness.
So having two of those breaks isactually causing a you know a
bigger loss to the business, ifyou like, than just having one
break.
So there's a there's a sweetspot of having decent, chunky
enough size breaks that peoplearen't losing lots of time going
(08:20):
backwards and forwards to break,but then not just having one big
lump of break that has to happenwhen the customers want you as
well.
SPEAKER_01 (08:29):
And I suppose as add to that, a lot of the
organizations now across theworld are using their workforce
management solutions to helpschedule a break, and it's
always been that really trickyone back to James's point of how
does it know about customersbecause it's doing some
mathematical calculation.
So I always find thatinteresting when break automatic
(08:50):
break planning doesn'tnecessarily match what the
organization needs at thatmoment in time versus customer
demand or density or whatever itmight be.
SPEAKER_02 (08:58):
Yeah, we saw on uh on a recent management study
quite a lot of time devoted tochanging the automatic schedule
and you know, manually managingwhen people should take their
breaks through the day so thereare a minimum number there,
which is also, I guess, anotherhidden cost of the breaks is how
how long are your managersspending coordinating it.
Yeah, it's a tricky one tobalance.
SPEAKER_01 (09:18):
Interesting.
So keep an eye if you're outshopping, have a look at uh
where there's potential cues orpeople manning their
self-checkouts, and I supposemake make your own conclusions
of of how and why that is.
So you've you've also been doingsome really interesting work on
I'd call it new kit, but I thinkmore fundamentally new layout in
more of the restaurant quickserve area that you'd like to
(09:39):
talk about.
SPEAKER_00 (09:40):
Yeah, we've been doing quite a lot with different
quick serve restaurant brandsrecently.
And I always find it reallyinteresting how just tiny tweaks
can make such a difference.
And we're talking about thingsthat'll shave seconds off a
task.
So it might be building a burgeror making a coffee or but if
(10:02):
there are the things that yourteam are doing all day, every
day, those time savings reallyadd up.
And again, if we're going tomention the peak word again,
what matters when you'regenerally in those quick serve
restaurants is you've got highdemand for a concentrated period
of time.
So increasing your throughputcapacity at those busy times
(10:23):
actually can help drive yoursales because you've got high
demand.
How do you meet that demand andtherefore optimise what your
sales are?
That's by getting your capacityright.
So if you can take a few secondsoff and look at how many more of
whatever it is you can producein that time, then it makes a
big difference.
And it it's really simple thingsthat when you stand back and
(10:45):
think about it, they're reallyobvious.
Yet when your head's down in theoperation and kind of it's all
flying at you, then it's not soeasy to see.
And we've seen things like it'swhere people are keeping the
different utensils that theyneed to hand.
In one operation, they had touse tongs to pick up products to
move them from one place toanother.
(11:05):
They kept those tongs in a boxwith a lid on it.
So every time they wanted theturn the tongs, they had to take
the lid off the box, then pickup the tongs, then put the lid
on the box, use the tongs, andthen repeat the whole lid on and
off process again.
And they weren't even doing ittwo-handed, they'd pick the lid
up, actually put it down on thebench, and then pick it up
(11:26):
again.
It wasn't even just holding itand you know, taking the tongs
out while that that's happening.
So it sounds something reallysimple, but it just adds so much
time into the process.
SPEAKER_01 (11:39):
And from an engagement point of view, where
you've seen new or touch brieflyon layouts, how do you how does
that typically work when processchange or layout change?
I think people are very good atprobably the plan, the fit out,
the the physical aspect of it,but does that always flow
(12:01):
through in terms of how the teamthen engage with it and and see
the benefits or don't see thebenefits?
SPEAKER_00 (12:07):
Yeah, that's another thing we've seen quite a bit all
recently.
And if I think back over time,we've done uh done lots of times
when we've been asked to go intomeasure the impact of either a
new layout or a new piece of kitbeing added in.
And I can't think of a singletime where it's actually worked
as people are expected to.
Usually because colleaguesaren't working with the kit the
(12:30):
way they were expected to, orand sometimes we've had people
that don't know how to use itand we've actually been saying,
Oh, did you know it's got thisfunction?
It was supposed to be one of thethings we're there to measure,
but the team don't even know ithappened.
But actually, what it's humannature that people default back
to the way they used to workunless you really help them get
(12:50):
to that new way of doing it.
So we were looking at a arevised layout recently to help
improve the workflow.
And actually the colleagues werestill working in it like they
did in the old one.
It just it wasn't quite as easyto work into the on because the
light was trying to get them towork differently, and yet they
were not doing that.
(13:11):
And it it needs that realengagement piece and that how
you really work with it andengage with it needs to be, you
know, trained into people andhave conversations and the role
of the leaders or theoperational leads in there to
help people stick with that newway of working.
Because it's like that old trickwhere if you fold your arms one
(13:31):
way and then you fold them theother way, one way feels much
more comfortable than the other.
You know, anytime you're askingyour teams to do something
different, whether it's with anew piece of kit, work with a
new layout, it is it's thatfeeling of trying to cross your
hands the other way.
And you've got to really helpthem do it.
And that as you said, I thinkthere's a lot of time and effort
going into making sure all thekit arrives, everything's
(13:52):
plumbed in or whatever needs tohappen.
But actually, perhaps that pieceabout and how are your teams
going to work with it and andreally get to grips with it and
get the most of it, it's perhapsa little neglected at times.
SPEAKER_01 (14:05):
And that must be a challenge because lots of these
programs are based onefficiencies, aren't they?
So that there'll be some they'renot free, right?
So somebody, there's a way youhave to pay for it somewhere,
typically through labour,through an efficiency.
So if you've spent spent themoney and then not received the
efficiency, it's the worst ofeverything, right?
SPEAKER_00 (14:25):
Yes, you end up with potentially the worst of all
ones, don't you?
If you've spent the money andnot saved any costs.
Or even worse, if you spend themoney, you then take out the
salary and the people still workas they did.
What you've done is eitherreduced the quality of the
service or you've reduced yourcapacity and therefore your
sales are going to go down.
You know, it can happen.
(14:46):
It's not a good end solution,whichever way around it happens.
SPEAKER_01 (14:51):
And James, when you look at the data for these types
of projects, is it kind of clearthat things haven't necessarily
moved, or are there exampleswhere it's moved really well?
SPEAKER_02 (15:00):
I know.
I mean, there are alwaysexamples where it's moved really
well.
But I think it doesn't justapply to new Git, it's new
processes, new new softwarepackages as well.
Working with a client recentlywho was saying, you know, oh,
everybody should be doing usingthis tool and they should use it
once a day.
And when we went into thestores, actually they were doing
it once or twice a week and theyweren't using the new tool
(15:21):
because I still thought it wasright.
And that's where the umconstructed interviews were
useful and just kind of talkingto a few people they're able to
feedback on on why they weren'tusing it.
And I suspect it's a wholedifferent podcast episode or
maybe even a series, but youknow, start with engaging people
and then launch the tool.
Don't launch the tool and thentry and engage them in using it.
SPEAKER_01 (15:43):
Yeah, and I think we've probably all had
experiences in our work lifewhere we've we've been given
something and technology getseasier.
Nobody has a user manual fortheir iPhone, do they, or or
Google Phone anymore, whichmaybe is where the assumptions
made it's easy to do.
But yeah, I suspect we've allcertainly on this podcast, and
maybe a lot of those listeninghave had experiences where
things have been assumed, andactually the reality in the
(16:05):
operation means that it's it'snot possible or slightly
different, or there's amisunderstanding.
And back to Sue's point of didyou know it did this?
No, you're just losing losingbenefit.
So we'll pause there for thisepisode.
Thank you, Sue.
Thank you, James.
Keep an eye out for those cuesat peak, everybody listening,
and uh see if you can identifythe issues, and we'll be back in
(16:27):
the new year.
Thanks both.
Cheers, I mean, bye.
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