May 24, 2023 • 34 mins
When it comes to Tax Prep versus Tax Planning? Hands down, planning is king!
Host Josh Bretl, founder of FSR Wealth, is showing us the difference between putting together the info we need to file our taxes (always a short-term nuisance!) and positioning ourselves to minimize what we actually owe when April 15th rolls around (a long-term proposition).
As you’ll learn on this episode of Retirement Equals Freedom, whatever stage of life you’re in – from raising young kids to enjoying those golden years – there are important tax implications. It’s about creating a proactive (and tax efficient!) strategy for investing, drawing down and managing your assets all along the way.
Find out how IRAs, 529s, HSAs, RMDs, 401ks – the whole alphabet soup – are part of a holistic, tax-savvy vision for your abundant future!
The show wraps with a quick-fire round of – you asked for it! – “Get to know Josh and Dave” (with apologies to Dave’s mother and Bambi) as well as a DR2R that is more deep dish (pizza) than deep thoughts.
Speaking of deep thoughts, some of the subject matter we tackle can get pretty complex. If you’re wondering whether now is the time to consider hiring a professional, don’t miss our next episode! Josh will be running down the list of things to look for in a qualified financial planner.
Episode Extras
- Check out Jerry Palotta’s popular series of kids’ books, "Who Would Win?"
- Interested in trying DIY tax prep? TurboTax and H&R Block are two of the biggies.
- Click here if you would like to learn more about the Schmidt family vacation spot: Door County, Wisconsin.
- R=F's new private Facebook group. Come hang out!
Did you know you’re just one click away from a pod link resource with all the latest and greatest about Retirement Equals Freedom? Click here.
If you haven’t already, please sign up for all the news you can use (+ lots of fun) at this link for the Retirement Equals Freedom podcast newsletter. You might also want to join the conversation at our private Facebook group, which you’ll find here.
Click here to explore the services that FSR Wealth Strategies offers and schedule a discovery call with Josh. When it comes to living your best life, it’s never too early to get started!
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Josh Bretl (00:02):
Tax planning is a proactive approach to managing
taxes or the tax liability.
Instead of just waiting fortax season, you're taking
the bull by the horns.
It allows you to takesteps throughout the year
to minimize your taxesthat you know are coming.
And it may not be just forthis year, but it could be
for the rest of your life.
And especially for retirees,now is a great time to do that.
(00:23):
Tax preparation is all you'redoing is taking whatever
you did in the prior yearand reporting it to the IRS.
Dave Schmidt (00:30):
When it comes to tax prep versus tax
planning, who will win?
Ah, simple handsdown tax planning.
Your host Josh, is showingus a difference in collecting
all the information we needto file our taxes every year,
which is a short term nuisance,and positioning ourselves
(00:51):
to minimize what we actuallyowe come April 15th, which
is a long-term proposition.
As we've mentioned hundredsof times in this show, it
comes down to you creatinga proactive strategy.
Specifically in this episode,we're talking about a
strategy around investing,drawing down, and managing
(01:11):
all of those assets.
Find out how IRAs, and 529s,and HSAs, and 401ks, and
the entire alphabet soup,are part of a holistic tax
savvy vision of your future.
We go pretty deep in thisepisode, and sometimes
things get a littlecomplex, but don't worry.
As always, we end on alight and fluffy note.
(01:32):
This time you'll hear allabout how my, uh, pizza
ordering skills can come inreal handy at your next party.
This is The RetirementEquals Freedom Podcast.
Your host, Josh Bretl, is theowner of FSR Wealth Strategies.
And Josh for the last 20plus years, has been helping
fine folks like you, gain theconfidence to make retirement
(01:55):
the best part of your life.
And me.
Who the heck am I?
Ah, thanks for asking.
I'm Dave.
Josh's longtime friend, co-hostof the show, and a huge fan
of the new Macadamia NutCream Cold Brew at Starbucks.
Oh man, it's delicious.
All right.
All right.
Yeah, I've beentalking long enough.
I get it.
So now let me let you letme, end this introduction
(02:18):
so we can talk about taxprep versus tax planning.
FSR Wealth Management is aregistered investment advisor
located in Elmhurst, Illinois.
Information and opinionscontained in this audio
have been arrived atby FSR Wealth advisors.
All information herein isfor informational purposes
and should not be construedas investment advice.
It does not constitute an offer,a solicitation or recommendation
to purchase any security.
FSR is not providing legal,tax, accounting, or financial
(02:39):
planning advice in this audio.
These views are as of thedate of this publication
and are subject to change.
(03:03):
Rolling with the coffee.
When is the new Smartless...
not live, but-
Josh Bretl (03:08):
The-
Dave Schmidt (03:09):
Documentary.
Josh Bretl (03:10):
The documentary?
Dave Schmidt (03:10):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (03:10):
I think it's coming out soon.
Dave Schmidt (03:12):
It's getting released May 23rd.
It's the same day they'reannouncing it it's no longer
HBO Max, it's just Max.
And that's theirfirst headlining show.
Josh Bretl (03:21):
Well, that's kind of cool.
Dave Schmidt (03:22):
Yeah, I'm pumped.
Josh Bretl (03:24):
Missy and I have gotten into
documentaries recently.
We don't watch muchTV or anything really.
Dave Schmidt (03:30):
Yeah, right.
Josh Bretl (03:31):
And you make fun of us.
Dave Schmidt (03:32):
Cooking shows.
Josh Bretl (03:33):
We've watched cooking shows, a lot of them.
Competition cooking shows.
But documentaries aresomething we've gotten into.
We've watched some fun ones.
And I'm not an artsyperson, as you know.
You were the artsy onein our relationship.
Dave Schmidt (03:43):
Rumor has it.
Josh Bretl (03:44):
But we've enjoyed...
So we've watched BritneySpears, and we've
watched the Billy Eilishdocumentary's outstanding.
But the Lady Gaga documentaryis out-of-this-world good.
Dave Schmidt (04:00):
Why?
What sets that apart?
Josh Bretl (04:02):
I feel like it really gets into her
life in a very authenticway because I think she
has such an amazing voice.
Unlike you and I, who soundlike we're dragging our
vocal cords through gravel-
Dave Schmidt (04:15):
this is where I say, "Speak for
yourself," but carry on.
Josh Bretl (04:18):
But her voice is so incredible, but I feel
like she does such weird,awkward things at awards shows,
that meat dress and stuff.
But it really putsher in perspective.
It really opens you upinto seeing her point of
view and her everything.
I really enjoyed it.
In fact, Missy and I havesaid that one of the things
on our bucket list is tosee a live concert of hers.
(04:40):
We've yet to do it.
Dave Schmidt (04:41):
She's a gem.
I've always loved the Gags.
Did you learn her real name?
Josh Bretl (04:45):
I'm sure I did, but I don't remember it.
What's her real name?
Dave Schmidt (04:48):
I don't know.
I was asking you.
But yeah, you guys arewatching documentaries while
sipping on wine and havingsome cheese snacks and stuff.
Carla and I watchdocumentaries, I'm having a
bowl of cereal and whatever.
Josh Bretl (05:02):
You had a big weekend.
Your wife left youfor the weekend.
Dave Schmidt (05:05):
Yeah, she likes to abandon us.
And...
Well, if you listen toany of our episodes,
you kind of get why.
I'm kind of annoying.
But yeah, she headed downto Lake Ozarks with some
buddies, and so it was boysweekend for Landon and I.
Josh Bretl (05:17):
You don't have that very often.
Dave Schmidt (05:18):
We don't, and it was awesome.
Now, you have three kids ofyour own, and I think you can
attest to this - parentingis just a lot simpler when
it's just dad and the kids.
Josh Bretl (05:28):
Oh, my wife and I talk about this all the time.
You subtract one person fromthe equation, it doesn't
matter which one person,her or I, or even one of
the children, and all of asudden you're like, "God, this
You kind of had amiserable weather weekend.
He's such an athlete,loves to be outside
and do all that stuff.
It was so miserable,you probably just wanted
to hang out inside.
Dave Schmidt (05:46):
We found time.
As soon as it cleared up onSaturday, him and I went out and
shot basketball for 30 minutes.
He smoked me in Pig twice'cause he's legit good.
He played baseball throughthe hail on Sunday.
It was hail, and it was sunnyand rain and windy; then sunny.
And he was up to bat rightwhen he started hailing.
(06:07):
And we all looked at the umpire,who was a high school kid.
We're like, "Don'tyou dare cancel this."
And Landon got a hitthrough the hail.
It was so impressive.
He was not phased at all.
Josh Bretl (06:15):
That's pretty cool.
Dave Schmidt (06:16):
It was cool.
Josh Bretl (06:17):
Saturday here rained from 10:30 through one o'clock.
And it was a miserable,cold, 40 degree rain.
It was awful.
Dave Schmidt (06:26):
Oh, it's beautiful.
Josh Bretl (06:27):
I was outside at soccer fields the entire time.
And from 12 to one I wascoaching, so I couldn't have
an umbrella or anything.
And I'm running upand on the field.
It was the worstsoccer experience.
In fact, if I can find thepicture, one of our teammate's
moms took a picture of Alexand I in the frame together.
And we're on the field, andit looks like a dripping
(06:49):
wet Sasquatch, and Alexjust looks miserable.
It was pretty wet and cold.
Dave Schmidt: That's wet and cold. (06:55):
undefined
You know what canalso be wet and cold?
Josh Bretl (07:00):
The snout of a golden retriever.
Dave Schmidt (07:02):
Yeah, that's actually true.
We have a goldendoodle,but I'll give you...
You've had goldenretrievers growing up, so-
Josh Bretl (07:07):
mm-hmm.
Dave Schmidt (07:07):
A podcast that is inspired by the
kids' books, Who Would Win?
or Who Will Win?
And Landon has about 30 ofthese on his bookshelves.
Josh Bretl (07:17):
I think we have the same, in fact, last weekend I
did read Ultimate Bug Rumble.
Dave Schmidt (07:22):
Yes.
Josh Bretl (07:23):
Who Would Win?
And for those of you thathaven't been able to read
children's books in the lastfew years, these Who Would Win?
Series is hot.
And what they do is theytake animals that are out
there, and they say, "Ifthey fought, who would win?"
And they'd take a few of them.
So there's some in-depth ones.
They'd be like,"Tiger versus Lion."
(07:43):
And they would talk aboutthe tiger, and they'd talk
about the lion, and the lastfew pages they'd make them
fight, and they'd come upwith a hypothetical outcome.
But then as they've advanced,they now have tournament
style where, "There'll belike four rounds of 16 animals
come in, who's going to win?"
And it was the finalone was hornet versus...
(08:04):
I don't remember who itwas, but hornet wins.
I know Hornet wonthe whole thing.
Dave Schmidt (08:07):
They're great.
And it's funny, becauseusually an animal or a bug
ends up dying at the end,but it's not gruesome.
And it's still teachingkids like, "Yeah, survival
of the fittest, man."
Josh Bretl (08:18):
Yeah, and the kids freaking love it-
Dave Schmidt (08:20):
They do.
Josh Bretl (08:20):
But they learn a lot about the bugs.
They'd be like, "Well, yeah, didyou know that a bee will lose
its stinger in human skin, buta hornet will not because it
has a more flexible stinger."
It's just like now they'respouting this off of breakfast.
Dave Schmidt (08:32):
Oh, totally.
And there's one.
I can't rememberwhich one it is.
I think it's scorpionversus tarantula.
And there's pictures ofkids in Africa eating
buckets of fried scorpions.
And it grosses me out,and Landon knows this.
So I'll be randomly sittingthere having snack, and
he'll run up and he'll shovethe picture in my face.
And I'm like, "Man,you are just like me."
Josh Bretl (08:54):
I would've so done that to my dad.
Dave Schmidt (08:56):
Totally.
So that being said, I amthrilled to see the title
of today's show, Josh.
And what are we doing here?
Josh Bretl (09:08):
well, this one comes to us from Erin.
We finished tax seasonhere in the office.
And we don't do tax returns fora lot of people anymore, but
we still do a few tax returns.
Alex (09:18):
Hashtag tax nerd.
Josh Bretl (09:19):
Yeah, 'cause taxes are important.
And so the whole seasonit kind of wrapped up, and
everyone's thinking about taxes.
And she says to me, andshe goes, "You know what?
Your next podcast shoulddo on the importance of tax
planning versus tax preparation.
What's more important?"
And I said, "Well, thatsounds like a Who Would Win?
Book Scorpion versus Tarantula?
Dave Schmidt (09:41):
That's how it happened?
Josh Bretl (09:42):
Yeah.
Dave Schmidt (09:42):
That's how it came about.
Josh Bretl (09:43):
It was.
Tax planning versus taxpreparation 'cause she has a
kid the same age as our kids.
But no, it was Erin's idea andthe who would win concept of tax
planning versus tax preparation.
Everyone gets concernedabout tax preparation.
Now, let me define whatthese two things are.
Tax preparation is what happensin February, March and April.
(10:05):
So in January and earlyFebruary, you start
getting all your documents.
You get your W2s and your1099s and your 1098s and
all the fun stuff thatlooks really official.
Dave Schmidt (10:17):
Your 403[b]s.
Josh Bretl (10:18):
Well, no.
Dave Schmidt (10:19):
No, no, no.
I'm just-
Josh Bretl (10:20):
No.
Dave Schmidt (10:21):
First number I could come up with.
Josh Bretl (10:22):
Yeah, well, same thing.
It's a code.
But you get these, and youeither do it on TurboTax, or
you bring it to your accountantor H&R Block or somewhere,
and you go through thisprocess, this annual ritual
of preparing your tax return.
It's a giant pain in the butt.
And People thinkthis is hard to do.
And it is.
It's not the easiest thing,the IRS makes it complicated.
(10:45):
But that's tax preparation.
And what you're doingis you're taking the
prior year's information.
So we're in 2023, and in taxpreparation, we were taking
all of the 2022 information,and we're reconciling it.
So we're saying, "Okay, here'syour income, here's your
deductions, here's how muchtaxes you've already paid."
And then we comparethat to what you owe.
(11:05):
Do you owe more, ordo you get a refund?
That's the whole conceptof tax preparation.
And it is important.
I'm not sayingit's not important.
It is important.
But tax planning, on theother side, is things that
you do throughout the year.
There's things that you do toget ready for tax preparation.
It's to put yourselfin a better scenario.
(11:26):
What we hear a lot is clientsor people who come in, they'll
get really hung up on tax prep.
And they all they careabout is, " God, it's such
a pain in the butt," or"Am I getting a refund?
Am I doing this or that?"
But they don't think about allthe stuff that goes into it.
And I think a lot of it thereare times are unaware of it or
they have no idea how to do it.
(11:48):
But this goes into our ownyour retirement planning
process where this issomething that you can control,
this is something that youwant to take control off.
Dave Schmidt (11:56):
I don't want to steal your thunder, but I want
to be proactive, not reactive.
Josh Bretl (12:02):
Ooh.
Dave Schmidt (12:03):
Yeah.
Now, yes, Erin wrotethat in the notes, but
I did catch on to that.
Josh Bretl (12:08):
That's a lot about taking control and ownership, is
that proactive versus reactive.
Let's go through some of thenotes that she wrote here.
Dave Schmidt (12:16):
So I just flipped over the back of my
piece of paper, and it hasall my DR2R notes, and Josh
is trying to sneak a peak.
So I got to keep thatprivate for later.
It's top secret stuff.
Josh Bretl (12:26):
Top secret DR2R.
Dave Schmidt (12:28):
Yes.
Josh Bretl (12:31):
Well, let's start with proactive versus reactive.
Dave Schmidt (12:33):
Please, please.
Josh Bretl (12:34):
This is something that Erin put together here.
And tax planning is aproactive approach to managing
taxes or the tax liability.
And instead of just waitingfor tax season, you're
taking the bull by the horns.
And it allows you to takesteps throughout the year
to minimize your taxesthat you know are coming.
(12:55):
And it may not be just forthis year, but it could be
for the rest of your life.
And especially for retirees,now is a great time to do that.
So let me give you someexamples of what they may be.
Tax loss harvesting.
We did a whole thing on theimportance of recognizing
gains and watching gainsand capital gains inside
of taxable accounts.
That's something you don'twait till the end of the year,
you do it throughout the year.
(13:17):
What you're going to do withRMDs, charitable gifting,
what you're going to dowith Roth conversions, where
money's going to come from.
All of those things you can beproactive with as opposed to
waiting for the 1099 to comeout and be like, "Oh man, I
got to pay so much in taxes."
It's a thoughtful,proactive approach.
And it really allows you tofocus on minimizing taxes.
(13:41):
With a tax planning strategy,it allows you to identify
opportunities that you maynot have realized just by
putting things in a TurboTax.
With a good plan as you'relooking out five, 10 years from
now, right now you may not haveRMDs, you may not have social
security, you may just be livingoff of something, and you have
a really simple tax return.
(14:03):
But by focusing on the long-termapproach and looking at where
you stand today versus fiveyears from now, it allows
you to do some planning to bevery, very proactive there.
Tax planning can allow youto pay less for Medicare
with those Irma surcharges.
Tax planning can allow yoursocial security to be tax-free.
Tax planning can allow youto take money out of your
(14:25):
401ks and IRAs cheaper.
Tax planning can do awhole bunch of things.
Tax preparation is all you'redoing is taking whatever
you did in the prior yearand reporting it to the IRS.
Let's talk about taxpreparation for a little bit.
Tax preparation is becomingeasier and easier to do, and
(14:49):
it's becoming more and moreonerous on tax professionals.
So if you want to hire a taxprofessional right now, if you
want to hire a CPA to do yourtax returns, it's becoming
harder and harder to find one.
The CPA profession is...
Not going to say it's adying profession, but it kind
of is a dying profession.
(15:09):
The young people arenot coming into it.
They're not being able toreplace the retirees in
any way, shape or form.
And where they are going intoit is they're going into these
giant audit companies andthese giant finance companies.
No one's coming intothe individual small
practice anymore.
So what's happening iswe refer clients out.
We are having a hard time tryingto refer clients to CPAs unless
(15:33):
it's a really complex situation.
If you've got rental properties,and if you've got all sorts
of different things, andyou're used to paying a
couple thousand dollars tohave your taxes prepared,
we can find you somebody.
But if you're someone whopaid $500 to your local CPA,
and all of a sudden he's 75,80 years old, and they're not
doing it anymore, trying tofind somebody else can become
really, really difficult.
(15:54):
That's where we're sayingTurboTax is a great solution.
H&R Block, for mostpeople, is a good solution.
But most people's situationis not complex enough where
you can't do it yourself.
And here's my prediction.
Do you have a prediction?
But-
Dave Schmidt (16:13):
Josh predicts the future.
Oh yeah.
Is that good or no?
Josh Bretl (16:17):
Yeah.
Dave Schmidt (16:17):
Okay.
Josh Bretl (16:17):
I like it.
Dave Schmidt (16:18):
All right.
Josh Bretl (16:18):
That's a good one.
You really like to endthings with, "Yeah."
Dave Schmidt (16:20):
I do.
Yeah, it's just me.
Yeah, man, that's the way I am.
Josh Bretl (16:24):
I think with AI and the automated intelligence of
everything going on right now,that what will happen in the
near future, meaning within thenext 10 years, you will just
get a letter from the IRS thatsays, "Here's your income we
see, here's your deductions wesee, here's the taxes you owe.
There won't be tax preparationfor 95% of America.
Dave Schmidt (16:44):
That'd be nice.
Josh Bretl (16:45):
Yeah.
And it's there.
They almost have thetechnology already.
I think tax preparationwill actually be going away.
Dave Schmidt (16:50):
Hashtag Josh tips.
Let's go AI.
Josh Bretl (16:53):
Let's go AI.
That does let lead back to thetax planning portion of it.
When you're trying tohire a professional, a tax
professional, where areyou going to find value?
And the value comes fromsomebody helping you reduce
the things that are taxable.
So to been able to find outdifferent scenarios that you may
not be able to take advantageof if the year's already passed.
(17:18):
All right, so let's talk aboutsome common tax planning tips
that people should look for.
The first thing you shouldlook at is deductions.
Are you maximizing deductions?
So what does that mean?
If you're still working,do you have your HSA?
Are you maximizingcontributions to your HSA?
If you're saving for college,529, depending on the state
(17:41):
you're in, can be different.
For example, we're herein the state of Illinois.
Federally 529s arenot deductible.
But in the state of Illinois, ifyou use the Illinois 529 plan,
you can deduct that on yourIllinois return, which, hey,
that's a thousand bucks a yearin your pocket that is better
off than somebody else's pocket.
That's a tax planning tip.
(18:03):
Where you contribute to.
So are you puttingmoney in a Roth IRA or a
traditional IRA, your 401k?
Where you're saving isa tax planning strategy.
How you're getting money outis a tax planning strategy.
Where are you going totake money from this year?
When are you going tostart social security as
a tax planning strategy?
(18:24):
Your non-qualified accounts,how are you going to get
money out without payingcapital gains taxes?
If you're going to invest individend-paying stocks or things
that produce income, where areyou going to hold those assets?
Those are all common incometax planning strategies.
Dave Schmidt (18:40):
I've heard you talk about these a lot.
It sounds like you're...
In that list you just wentover, there's a combination
of specific things forwhen you are retired and
when you're still working.
Am I right?
Am I mis-
Josh Bretl (18:51):
No, you're-
Dave Schmidt (18:51):
Mishearing you?
Josh Bretl (18:52):
You are dead right?
There's-
Dave Schmidt (18:53):
I know I am.
I love when you say that.
Say it again, Josh, slower.
Josh Bretl (18:56):
You are dead, right-
Dave Schmidt (18:58):
Oh yeah.
Josh Bretl (18:58):
Dave..
Dave Schmidt (18:59):
That's going to be the trailer.
Josh Bretl (19:01):
As you go through life, you have to realize that
your life circumstances change,and the tax rules change.
So there are different taxplanning strategies for
when A, you're young, haveyoung children, B, as you
get older, as you're stillworking, trying to retire.
And B, when you're a retiree.
And even a late-stage retiree.
(19:23):
If you're not spending as much,and you're not as traveling
and doing all the crazy things,there's some other areas that
we have to be concerned about.
Healthcare.
All of a sudden, if you'recoming up on some major
healthcare expenses.
So every stage of life yougo through has different
tax planning strategiesthat come to play.
Dave Schmidt (19:42):
We talked about, a few episodes ago, your old
tagline slash mission statement,tax-focused retirement planning.
And of course that is at thecore of what you do, but it
doesn't define you, Josh.
Doesn't define Josh andFSR Wealth Strategies.
Josh Bretl (20:00):
Dave?
Dave Schmidt (20:01):
Yeah?
Josh Bretl (20:02):
Someday, I always thought, probably
be fun to work with Dave.
Dave Schmidt (20:05):
Yeah, sure.
Everybody I'veever met said that.
Josh Bretl (20:09):
You don't meet many people, but it's-
Dave Schmidt (20:11):
four.
Josh Bretl (20:11):
Yeah.
But I always thought in my mind,no, he's too out there; he would
never be a part of our business.
But truly, you added something,when you came into our office,
that was exactly what we needed.
And a lot of it has to dowith that, as you looked at
the bigger picture and as wechanged that mission statement.
Because you are right.
(20:32):
I still believe that thetax-focused retirement planning
is what sets us apart, whywe're different than other
people in the industry.
But it's not what we believe in.
It's not everything that we do.
And it's just a portion of thatability to own your retirement.
Dave Schmidt (20:47):
It's just a small bit.
I do appreciate yourecognizing what I bring.
I bring to the office wrinklyclothes, occasional bad hygiene.
No, I'm just kidding.
Totally messing.
Josh Bretl (20:55):
You never smell.
Dave Schmidt (20:56):
No, I don't 'cause I have my Bath and
Body Works lotion to coverup every possible odor.
Aw man, this is a good one.
It's a feel-good one.
Josh Bretl (21:05):
It is.
And it's that who would win?
And by the way, thisisn't even a competition.
Tax planning has beaten thesnot out of tax preparation.
Now, tax preparationis something that
you got to deal with.
Tax preparation's like,"Ugh, I got to do it."
Dave Schmidt (21:19):
sure, sure.
Josh Bretl (21:20):
But it's not nearly as important.
If you can figure out how todo the tax preparation, it
doesn't impact you as much as...
It's a pain in the butt.
It's not fun.
But if you can figure out howto do it, it's super easy.
The tax planningprovides real value.
It provides a life-changingopportunity to your
(21:41):
financial picture.
Dave Schmidt (21:42):
Josh, I have a pretty good analogy too,
which I'm going to runthis by Erin; maybe we
can rebrand this later on.
But this is essentiallyDave versus Josh one-on-one
in the basketball court.
Dave is tax planning.
Josh is tax preparation.
Who would win?
If you listened to anyof our other glory days
stories, you know that Davewould win in a landslide.
Josh Bretl (22:02):
Somehow you made taxes about
high school basketball.
Dave Schmidt (22:07):
I can always tie it back to that.
Yeah.
Hey Mr.
Josh, let's take a break.
You've been talking for solong and my ears are sore.
Let's not make them snore.
Listening shouldn't be a chore.
So let's get to know Josh andDave and watch our ratings soar!
(22:37):
So what I liked about that,it was one single "Mwah."
You've done a"Mwah, mwah" before.
This was a single "Mwah."
So congratulations.
Josh Bretl (22:45):
It was a big bird.
It was a long big bird call.
Dave Schmidt (22:49):
I like that.
That's impressive.
You have not been using a Poddeck, I think, since episode 20.
So they're sittingthere, they're pretty.
They were not free, by the way.
I paid for those withoutyour credit card.
Josh Bretl (23:02):
Well, that's when you thought you were
going to be doing a lot morepodcasts with different people.
Dave Schmidt (23:08):
Yeah, that's true.
Then people actually heardme, and they're like,
"Yeah, we're not going to."
So what you gotfor me today, Josh?
Deep thoughts.
Should I pull a cardout and read one?
Josh Bretl (23:18):
I haven't let you pick the question-
Dave Schmidt (23:20):
No.
Josh Bretl (23:21):
In a year, probably.
Dave Schmidt (23:23):
There's a little story behind this one for
me, so I'm going to read it.
It's not the most creative one.
It's also not inappropriate.
What's the strangestthing you've ever seen in
the middle of the road?
Josh Bretl (23:34):
The strangest thing I've ever seen in
the middle of a road?
Dave Schmidt (23:37):
Mm-hmm.
Josh Bretl (23:39):
I don't know if it's in the middle of the road, but
I'm going to go with this answeranyways 'cause I can't think of
one for the middle of the road.
But our old house, our backyard,I was in early twenties, I'm
doing my own landscaping.
And they had these big,overgrown bushes in
the back of the house.
And I was like, "I'm goingto rip these bushes out.
We're going to put somenice landscaping in."
And there's these giantgreen evergreen things.
(23:59):
I'm chopping them down.
And I'm dripping of sweat.
And I finally get the bigovergrowth brought up.
And underneath these bushesare 10 concrete yard gnomes,
a yard squirrel, a concretesquirrel, and a microwave.
Dave Schmidt (24:20):
Stop it.
Wait, is this yourhouse or your parents'?
Josh Bretl (24:22):
This is my house, my old house.
Dave Schmidt (24:25):
What?
Josh Bretl (24:25):
Yeah.
And we have saved this squirrel.
The gnomes didn'tlive much longer.
But the squirrel has come withus to the new house because
it's such a funny story.
And we're like-
Dave Schmidt (24:38):
oh.
Josh Bretl (24:38):
This bushes, you could've found a dead body
under there, it would've fit.
But who puts amicrowave under a bush?
Dave Schmidt: Gosh, that's awful. (24:44):
undefined
Okay, is this squirrel out inyour yard now, so next time
I come over I can see him?
Josh Bretl (24:50):
I think he's hidden in the backyard.
I think he's tucked awayin the back corner there.
Dave Schmidt (24:54):
It's like the plastic Santa that we used
to pass around from house tohouse when we were younger.
Josh Bretl (25:00):
Oh, that still goes out in my house.
Dave Schmidt (25:01):
Oh, I bet.
Josh Bretl (25:02):
It sits in my backyard every winter.
And I-
Dave Schmidt (25:04):
I bet it does.
Josh Bretl (25:04):
Send a picture to Phil and Joanne of it.
Dave Schmidt (25:07):
Mine is not super rare, but you know
how in my family, we loveto ridicule our parents?
I think all kids, it'sa rite of passage.
You just make funof your parents.
And there's stories thatwe carry with us from
young childhood to today.
So every time we get together,we're going to Colorado in June-
Josh Bretl (25:23):
Yeah.
Dave Schmidt (25:23):
We will tell a story.
But we were-
Josh Bretl (25:26):
I love when your sisters sit around and-
Dave Schmidt (25:27):
oh yeah.
Josh Bretl (25:28):
Tell a story.
Dave Schmidt (25:28):
Oh, it's the best.
I'm going to say I wasprobably late elementary
school, early middle school.
And we were in DoorCounty, that was our annual
trip up to Door County.
We were driving on the roadat night, and we came across
a deer that had just been hit.
Right.
Okay.
And so he was alreadydeceased and everything.
And me and my sisters werejust distraught 'cause we
(25:49):
had never seen this before.
We were just distraught.
And my mom, Becks, in trueBecks fashion, goes, "Ugh,
they're overpopulated anyway"and just kept on driving.
You can imagine me andJulie cried the whole way
home, saying, "How dare yousay something like that?"
(26:10):
And so to this day, we'llsay something like, "Hey, ma.
Did you see a deadhuman on the road?
Are humans overpopulated now?
Do you have a heart now?"
So yes, while not super rare,it still has a very funny
memory from we were kids.
Yeah, that's good old Becks.
Does that surprise you at all?
Josh Bretl (26:31):
No, but I am starting to realize, as a
parent, things come out of yourmouth that you realize are going
to come back later to haunt you.
Dave Schmidt (26:38):
Totally.
Josh Bretl (26:38):
So that may have been one of those for her.
Dave Schmidt (26:40):
Oh, without a doubt.
Josh Bretl (26:41):
So-
Dave Schmidt (26:41):
yeah.
I feel like we're- yeah.
Dave relates to retirees, yeah.
Thank you for nottalking over the end.
Josh Bretl (26:50):
See the, yeah, at the end?
Dave Schmidt (26:50):
Yeah, it was very nice.
Josh Bretl (26:51):
It was kind of like I knew it was coming.
Dave Schmidt (26:52):
Yeah, you did.
Josh Bretl (26:52):
Now-
Dave Schmidt (26:53):
yeah, sure.
Josh Bretl (26:54):
I've been running around the office this morning.
I had a client comein all of a sudden.
And every time I come in,you've been frantically
working on something, and Ithink this is it, so I'm dying
to hear what this DR2R is.
Dave Schmidt (27:05):
No, no, no.
Don't build it up that much'cause it's not going to live
up up to your expectations.
This is not what I'vebeen frantically doing.
I did this right beforewe started recording.
But dear retirees, soonto be retiree, as I always
say, I can relate to youon a deep level with this.
I look at this asreactive versus proactive.
Anybody, again, that knows meor has heard this podcast would
(27:25):
say I'm categorically reactive.
Would you agree?
Josh Bretl (27:30):
I would say you're generally a reactive person.
But you do think proactively.
Dave Schmidt (27:35):
Well, in my work life, I'm more proactive.
In my personal lifeand responsibilities-
Josh Bretl (27:39):
oh yeah.
Personal life, youare so reactive-
Dave Schmidt (27:41):
yeah.
Josh Bretl (27:41):
Yeah.
Dave Schmidt (27:41):
I mean things such as Josh and my
buddies say, "Dave, hey,we're going out for dinner.
You got your wallet on you?"
"Oh, I didn't planfor my wallet."
Or...
Josh Bretl (27:50):
If you are proactive in that, I'm
going to be really upset.
Dave Schmidt (27:52):
I know.
Or "Dave, hey, youneed to register Landon
for school next year.
Have you guys done that?"
"Oh.
Oh, no, no.
We'll get to it," or"Dave, have you washed your
clothes lately and you'rewearing fresh skivvies?"
"No, I didn't planfor that either."
But where I am proactive,friends, where I will never let
anybody down is when I am at agathering or at a party, I am
(28:16):
always the go-to to order pizza.
People always come to meand say, "Dave, how many
pizzas should we order?"
And this has happened a dozen ormore times throughout my life.
And while that may seemreactive on the face, when
I walk into a room, any roomat any given moment, any time
in my life, I am planning forhow much pizza I should order.
I walked into the officetoday, I said, "There's
(28:39):
eight of us here.
Okay, I'm going to need twolarge pizzas from Mama Maria's."
I always know.
So I am always proactivelyseeking what pizza to order.
Moral of the story (28:47):
got to order pizza, give me a call.
Josh Bretl (28:51):
I wish you all could see what's
inside my brain right now.
Dave Schmidt (28:54):
Yeah.
I kind of want to know.
Josh Bretl (28:55):
Well, I'm glad I built that one up.
Dave Schmidt (28:57):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (28:59):
So-
Dave Schmidt (28:59):
I was going to say.
I'm just saying, man.
Proactive pizza guy here.
Josh Bretl (29:04):
Well, first off, you are right.
We do go to you forpizza decisions.
Dave Schmidt (29:08):
Always.
Josh Bretl (29:09):
On the who would win category though, I don't
know if it really ties into taxplanning versus tax preparation.
Dave Schmidt (29:16):
Oh no, I was going reactive versus proactive.
Josh Bretl (29:18):
Is that what it was?
Dave Schmidt (29:19):
Yes, that's what I was saying.
Josh Bretl (29:19):
The importance.
Dave Schmidt (29:20):
Yeah.
Okay, let me wrap a bow aroundthis because that's a phrase you
struggled with last podcast was-
Josh Bretl (29:26):
oh, a bow.
Tie a bow around it?
Dave Schmidt (29:28):
Yeah, tie a bow around.
Yeah, something like that.
You may be reactive in allother sorts of life, but when
it comes to your taxes andyour money, be proactive, just
like I am with ordering pizza.
How about that?
I gotcha, didn't I?
You're emotional right now.
You are struggling forwords, I can see it.
Josh Bretl (29:48):
I think what you say makes sense.
But I think when we talkabout the importance of
proactive versus reactive,being proactive is important.
And that would make sense wheretax planning, being proactive,
is way more valuable than taxpreparation, being reactive.
Dave Schmidt (30:10):
Sure.
Josh Bretl (30:11):
But I will also say that I made a point to
say that tax preparation isreally a pain in the butt, but
it's relatively easy to do.
And well, ordering pizza isa pain in the butt 'cause you
got to make a lot of peoplehappy, and no one's ever
happy all the way through,and it's a pain in the butt.
But it's not that hardto pick up the phone and
say, "Hey Mama Maria, sendme two large cheeses."
(30:33):
And-
Dave Schmidt (30:34):
we disagree.
... Josh Bretl (30:37):
where I actually think the importance would
play into getting your kidregistered for school and
washing your underwear andthings along those lines.
Some would argue that thoseanimals in the wild would
be more dominating than theproactive needs to order pizza.
(30:57):
But-
Dave Schmidt (30:58):
We can agree to disagree.
Josh Bretl (30:59):
We can.
Dave Schmidt (31:00):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (31:00):
We can.
But I hope everyone canagree that tax planning
provides way more valueto retirees and soon-to-be
retirees than tax preparation.
Dave Schmidt (31:14):
Sure.
I'm going to give youthis win here today, Josh.
This is all yours.
Josh Bretl (31:22):
Who would win, Josh versus Dave-
Dave Schmidt (31:25):
Well-
Josh Bretl (31:25):
The ultimate battle?
... Dave Schmidt (31:26):
today, it was not very ultimate.
Josh kicked my butt.
This is good.
I like these who would win?
You know what?
I'm thinking I might actuallywrite and illustrate a
book for our listenersabout this episode.
I'll make our own WhoWould Win book for tax
prep versus tax planning.
Josh Bretl (31:46):
I'd like to see how tax planning is illustrated
versus tax preparation.
Dave Schmidt (31:49):
I'll have special guest, Alex Bretl, to explain
the differences in kid terms,and I'll illustrate it out.
Josh Bretl (31:58):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Dave Schmidt (31:59):
We'll give them out at the client
events coming up here.
Alrighty Josh, what's instore here for next episode?
Josh Bretl (32:08):
The next episode.
I wanted to talk a littlebit more about some of the
things you should look forin hiring the right advisor.
If you're going to truly ownyour retirement, what should
you be looking for, whatshouldn't you be looking for?
A little bit of aWho Would Win theory.
But we've talked about a lotof really in-depth topics
(32:29):
in the last couple months.
If you were looking for help,I wanted to put out there some
of the things that you shouldbe asking, some of the things
that you should be looking for.
And I think our next topicwill be a proactive, if you
will, approach to hiring theright person to help you,
if that's what you shouldchoose to do in your life.
Dave Schmidt (32:52):
All right.
Who would win?
I thought we were going towrap up at around 20 minutes,
and we clearly did not.
So-
Josh Bretl (32:57):
We did not.
Dave Schmidt (32:58):
No.
Josh Bretl (32:58):
I think that has to do with the random
stories at the end.
Dave Schmidt (33:01):
The random stories and the epic who DR2R.
Josh Bretl (33:04):
Epic.
Dave Schmidt (33:05):
So yeah.
I did get a message from my dadreally quick, and he said he
is disheartened that we havedropped the, "Bye,' even though
we kind of started doing it.
He said, "However, changeis not always bad."
He's very prophetic, mydad, he's just a wise man.
So-
Josh Bretl (33:19):
prophetic?
Dave Schmidt (33:20):
Prophetic.
Josh Bretl (33:20):
Is he okay?
Dave Schmidt (33:22):
Doesn't that mean he's very profound, and-
Josh Bretl (33:24):
I have no idea.
Dave Schmidt (33:24):
He speaks prophecies, and he's-
Josh Bretl (33:26):
You know who's not prophetic?
Dave Schmidt (33:27):
Who?
Josh Bretl (33:27):
This guy.
Dave Schmidt (33:27):
Yeah, that's true.
So until we figureout what to say, we're
going to just go with...
Bye.
Josh Bretl (33:37):
That ended longer than I thought I was going to.
Dave Schmidt (33:39):
That's what happens when we have fun.
Alex (33:42):
Hashtag tax nerd.
Tax planning is a proactive approach to managing
taxes or the tax liability.
Instead of just waiting fortax season, you're taking
the bull by the horns.
It allows you to takesteps throughout the year
to minimize your taxesthat you know are coming.
And it may not be just forthis year, but it could be
for the rest of your life.
And especially for retirees,now is a great time to do that.
(00:23):
Tax preparation is all you'redoing is taking whatever
you did in the prior yearand reporting it to the IRS.
Dave Schmidt (00:30):
When it comes to tax prep versus tax
planning, who will win?
Ah, simple handsdown tax planning.
Your host Josh, is showingus a difference in collecting
all the information we needto file our taxes every year,
which is a short term nuisance,and positioning ourselves
(00:51):
to minimize what we actuallyowe come April 15th, which
is a long-term proposition.
As we've mentioned hundredsof times in this show, it
comes down to you creatinga proactive strategy.
Specifically in this episode,we're talking about a
strategy around investing,drawing down, and managing
(01:11):
all of those assets.
Find out how IRAs, and 529s,and HSAs, and 401ks, and
the entire alphabet soup,are part of a holistic tax
savvy vision of your future.
We go pretty deep in thisepisode, and sometimes
things get a littlecomplex, but don't worry.
As always, we end on alight and fluffy note.
(01:32):
This time you'll hear allabout how my, uh, pizza
ordering skills can come inreal handy at your next party.
This is The RetirementEquals Freedom Podcast.
Your host, Josh Bretl, is theowner of FSR Wealth Strategies.
And Josh for the last 20plus years, has been helping
fine folks like you, gain theconfidence to make retirement
(01:55):
the best part of your life.
And me.
Who the heck am I?
Ah, thanks for asking.
I'm Dave.
Josh's longtime friend, co-hostof the show, and a huge fan
of the new Macadamia NutCream Cold Brew at Starbucks.
Oh man, it's delicious.
All right.
All right.
Yeah, I've beentalking long enough.
I get it.
So now let me let you letme, end this introduction
(02:18):
so we can talk about taxprep versus tax planning.
FSR Wealth Management is aregistered investment advisor
located in Elmhurst, Illinois.
Information and opinionscontained in this audio
have been arrived atby FSR Wealth advisors.
All information herein isfor informational purposes
and should not be construedas investment advice.
It does not constitute an offer,a solicitation or recommendation
to purchase any security.
FSR is not providing legal,tax, accounting, or financial
(02:39):
planning advice in this audio.
These views are as of thedate of this publication
and are subject to change.
(03:03):
Rolling with the coffee.
When is the new Smartless...
not live, but-
Josh Bretl (03:08):
The-
Dave Schmidt (03:09):
Documentary.
Josh Bretl (03:10):
The documentary?
Dave Schmidt (03:10):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (03:10):
I think it's coming out soon.
Dave Schmidt (03:12):
It's getting released May 23rd.
It's the same day they'reannouncing it it's no longer
HBO Max, it's just Max.
And that's theirfirst headlining show.
Josh Bretl (03:21):
Well, that's kind of cool.
Dave Schmidt (03:22):
Yeah, I'm pumped.
Josh Bretl (03:24):
Missy and I have gotten into
documentaries recently.
We don't watch muchTV or anything really.
Dave Schmidt (03:30):
Yeah, right.
Josh Bretl (03:31):
And you make fun of us.
Dave Schmidt (03:32):
Cooking shows.
Josh Bretl (03:33):
We've watched cooking shows, a lot of them.
Competition cooking shows.
But documentaries aresomething we've gotten into.
We've watched some fun ones.
And I'm not an artsyperson, as you know.
You were the artsy onein our relationship.
Dave Schmidt (03:43):
Rumor has it.
Josh Bretl (03:44):
But we've enjoyed...
So we've watched BritneySpears, and we've
watched the Billy Eilishdocumentary's outstanding.
But the Lady Gaga documentaryis out-of-this-world good.
Dave Schmidt (04:00):
Why?
What sets that apart?
Josh Bretl (04:02):
I feel like it really gets into her
life in a very authenticway because I think she
has such an amazing voice.
Unlike you and I, who soundlike we're dragging our
vocal cords through gravel-
Dave Schmidt (04:15):
this is where I say, "Speak for
yourself," but carry on.
Josh Bretl (04:18):
But her voice is so incredible, but I feel
like she does such weird,awkward things at awards shows,
that meat dress and stuff.
But it really putsher in perspective.
It really opens you upinto seeing her point of
view and her everything.
I really enjoyed it.
In fact, Missy and I havesaid that one of the things
on our bucket list is tosee a live concert of hers.
(04:40):
We've yet to do it.
Dave Schmidt (04:41):
She's a gem.
I've always loved the Gags.
Did you learn her real name?
Josh Bretl (04:45):
I'm sure I did, but I don't remember it.
What's her real name?
Dave Schmidt (04:48):
I don't know.
I was asking you.
But yeah, you guys arewatching documentaries while
sipping on wine and havingsome cheese snacks and stuff.
Carla and I watchdocumentaries, I'm having a
bowl of cereal and whatever.
Josh Bretl (05:02):
You had a big weekend.
Your wife left youfor the weekend.
Dave Schmidt (05:05):
Yeah, she likes to abandon us.
And...
Well, if you listen toany of our episodes,
you kind of get why.
I'm kind of annoying.
But yeah, she headed downto Lake Ozarks with some
buddies, and so it was boysweekend for Landon and I.
Josh Bretl (05:17):
You don't have that very often.
Dave Schmidt (05:18):
We don't, and it was awesome.
Now, you have three kids ofyour own, and I think you can
attest to this - parentingis just a lot simpler when
it's just dad and the kids.
Josh Bretl (05:28):
Oh, my wife and I talk about this all the time.
You subtract one person fromthe equation, it doesn't
matter which one person,her or I, or even one of
the children, and all of asudden you're like, "God, this
You kind of had amiserable weather weekend.
He's such an athlete,loves to be outside
and do all that stuff.
It was so miserable,you probably just wanted
to hang out inside.
Dave Schmidt (05:46):
We found time.
As soon as it cleared up onSaturday, him and I went out and
shot basketball for 30 minutes.
He smoked me in Pig twice'cause he's legit good.
He played baseball throughthe hail on Sunday.
It was hail, and it was sunnyand rain and windy; then sunny.
And he was up to bat rightwhen he started hailing.
(06:07):
And we all looked at the umpire,who was a high school kid.
We're like, "Don'tyou dare cancel this."
And Landon got a hitthrough the hail.
It was so impressive.
He was not phased at all.
Josh Bretl (06:15):
That's pretty cool.
Dave Schmidt (06:16):
It was cool.
Josh Bretl (06:17):
Saturday here rained from 10:30 through one o'clock.
And it was a miserable,cold, 40 degree rain.
It was awful.
Dave Schmidt (06:26):
Oh, it's beautiful.
Josh Bretl (06:27):
I was outside at soccer fields the entire time.
And from 12 to one I wascoaching, so I couldn't have
an umbrella or anything.
And I'm running upand on the field.
It was the worstsoccer experience.
In fact, if I can find thepicture, one of our teammate's
moms took a picture of Alexand I in the frame together.
And we're on the field, andit looks like a dripping
(06:49):
wet Sasquatch, and Alexjust looks miserable.
It was pretty wet and cold.
Dave Schmidt: That's wet and cold. (06:55):
undefined
You know what canalso be wet and cold?
Josh Bretl (07:00):
The snout of a golden retriever.
Dave Schmidt (07:02):
Yeah, that's actually true.
We have a goldendoodle,but I'll give you...
You've had goldenretrievers growing up, so-
Josh Bretl (07:07):
mm-hmm.
Dave Schmidt (07:07):
A podcast that is inspired by the
kids' books, Who Would Win?
or Who Will Win?
And Landon has about 30 ofthese on his bookshelves.
Josh Bretl (07:17):
I think we have the same, in fact, last weekend I
did read Ultimate Bug Rumble.
Dave Schmidt (07:22):
Yes.
Josh Bretl (07:23):
Who Would Win?
And for those of you thathaven't been able to read
children's books in the lastfew years, these Who Would Win?
Series is hot.
And what they do is theytake animals that are out
there, and they say, "Ifthey fought, who would win?"
And they'd take a few of them.
So there's some in-depth ones.
They'd be like,"Tiger versus Lion."
(07:43):
And they would talk aboutthe tiger, and they'd talk
about the lion, and the lastfew pages they'd make them
fight, and they'd come upwith a hypothetical outcome.
But then as they've advanced,they now have tournament
style where, "There'll belike four rounds of 16 animals
come in, who's going to win?"
And it was the finalone was hornet versus...
(08:04):
I don't remember who itwas, but hornet wins.
I know Hornet wonthe whole thing.
Dave Schmidt (08:07):
They're great.
And it's funny, becauseusually an animal or a bug
ends up dying at the end,but it's not gruesome.
And it's still teachingkids like, "Yeah, survival
of the fittest, man."
Josh Bretl (08:18):
Yeah, and the kids freaking love it-
Dave Schmidt (08:20):
They do.
Josh Bretl (08:20):
But they learn a lot about the bugs.
They'd be like, "Well, yeah, didyou know that a bee will lose
its stinger in human skin, buta hornet will not because it
has a more flexible stinger."
It's just like now they'respouting this off of breakfast.
Dave Schmidt (08:32):
Oh, totally.
And there's one.
I can't rememberwhich one it is.
I think it's scorpionversus tarantula.
And there's pictures ofkids in Africa eating
buckets of fried scorpions.
And it grosses me out,and Landon knows this.
So I'll be randomly sittingthere having snack, and
he'll run up and he'll shovethe picture in my face.
And I'm like, "Man,you are just like me."
Josh Bretl (08:54):
I would've so done that to my dad.
Dave Schmidt (08:56):
Totally.
So that being said, I amthrilled to see the title
of today's show, Josh.
And what are we doing here?
Josh Bretl (09:08):
well, this one comes to us from Erin.
We finished tax seasonhere in the office.
And we don't do tax returns fora lot of people anymore, but
we still do a few tax returns.
Alex (09:18):
Hashtag tax nerd.
Josh Bretl (09:19):
Yeah, 'cause taxes are important.
And so the whole seasonit kind of wrapped up, and
everyone's thinking about taxes.
And she says to me, andshe goes, "You know what?
Your next podcast shoulddo on the importance of tax
planning versus tax preparation.
What's more important?"
And I said, "Well, thatsounds like a Who Would Win?
Book Scorpion versus Tarantula?
Dave Schmidt (09:41):
That's how it happened?
Josh Bretl (09:42):
Yeah.
Dave Schmidt (09:42):
That's how it came about.
Josh Bretl (09:43):
It was.
Tax planning versus taxpreparation 'cause she has a
kid the same age as our kids.
But no, it was Erin's idea andthe who would win concept of tax
planning versus tax preparation.
Everyone gets concernedabout tax preparation.
Now, let me define whatthese two things are.
Tax preparation is what happensin February, March and April.
(10:05):
So in January and earlyFebruary, you start
getting all your documents.
You get your W2s and your1099s and your 1098s and
all the fun stuff thatlooks really official.
Dave Schmidt (10:17):
Your 403[b]s.
Josh Bretl (10:18):
Well, no.
Dave Schmidt (10:19):
No, no, no.
I'm just-
Josh Bretl (10:20):
No.
Dave Schmidt (10:21):
First number I could come up with.
Josh Bretl (10:22):
Yeah, well, same thing.
It's a code.
But you get these, and youeither do it on TurboTax, or
you bring it to your accountantor H&R Block or somewhere,
and you go through thisprocess, this annual ritual
of preparing your tax return.
It's a giant pain in the butt.
And People thinkthis is hard to do.
And it is.
It's not the easiest thing,the IRS makes it complicated.
(10:45):
But that's tax preparation.
And what you're doingis you're taking the
prior year's information.
So we're in 2023, and in taxpreparation, we were taking
all of the 2022 information,and we're reconciling it.
So we're saying, "Okay, here'syour income, here's your
deductions, here's how muchtaxes you've already paid."
And then we comparethat to what you owe.
(11:05):
Do you owe more, ordo you get a refund?
That's the whole conceptof tax preparation.
And it is important.
I'm not sayingit's not important.
It is important.
But tax planning, on theother side, is things that
you do throughout the year.
There's things that you do toget ready for tax preparation.
It's to put yourselfin a better scenario.
(11:26):
What we hear a lot is clientsor people who come in, they'll
get really hung up on tax prep.
And they all they careabout is, " God, it's such
a pain in the butt," or"Am I getting a refund?
Am I doing this or that?"
But they don't think about allthe stuff that goes into it.
And I think a lot of it thereare times are unaware of it or
they have no idea how to do it.
(11:48):
But this goes into our ownyour retirement planning
process where this issomething that you can control,
this is something that youwant to take control off.
Dave Schmidt (11:56):
I don't want to steal your thunder, but I want
to be proactive, not reactive.
Josh Bretl (12:02):
Ooh.
Dave Schmidt (12:03):
Yeah.
Now, yes, Erin wrotethat in the notes, but
I did catch on to that.
Josh Bretl (12:08):
That's a lot about taking control and ownership, is
that proactive versus reactive.
Let's go through some of thenotes that she wrote here.
Dave Schmidt (12:16):
So I just flipped over the back of my
piece of paper, and it hasall my DR2R notes, and Josh
is trying to sneak a peak.
So I got to keep thatprivate for later.
It's top secret stuff.
Josh Bretl (12:26):
Top secret DR2R.
Dave Schmidt (12:28):
Yes.
Josh Bretl (12:31):
Well, let's start with proactive versus reactive.
Dave Schmidt (12:33):
Please, please.
Josh Bretl (12:34):
This is something that Erin put together here.
And tax planning is aproactive approach to managing
taxes or the tax liability.
And instead of just waitingfor tax season, you're
taking the bull by the horns.
And it allows you to takesteps throughout the year
to minimize your taxesthat you know are coming.
(12:55):
And it may not be just forthis year, but it could be
for the rest of your life.
And especially for retirees,now is a great time to do that.
So let me give you someexamples of what they may be.
Tax loss harvesting.
We did a whole thing on theimportance of recognizing
gains and watching gainsand capital gains inside
of taxable accounts.
That's something you don'twait till the end of the year,
you do it throughout the year.
(13:17):
What you're going to do withRMDs, charitable gifting,
what you're going to dowith Roth conversions, where
money's going to come from.
All of those things you can beproactive with as opposed to
waiting for the 1099 to comeout and be like, "Oh man, I
got to pay so much in taxes."
It's a thoughtful,proactive approach.
And it really allows you tofocus on minimizing taxes.
(13:41):
With a tax planning strategy,it allows you to identify
opportunities that you maynot have realized just by
putting things in a TurboTax.
With a good plan as you'relooking out five, 10 years from
now, right now you may not haveRMDs, you may not have social
security, you may just be livingoff of something, and you have
a really simple tax return.
(14:03):
But by focusing on the long-termapproach and looking at where
you stand today versus fiveyears from now, it allows
you to do some planning to bevery, very proactive there.
Tax planning can allow youto pay less for Medicare
with those Irma surcharges.
Tax planning can allow yoursocial security to be tax-free.
Tax planning can allow youto take money out of your
(14:25):
401ks and IRAs cheaper.
Tax planning can do awhole bunch of things.
Tax preparation is all you'redoing is taking whatever
you did in the prior yearand reporting it to the IRS.
Let's talk about taxpreparation for a little bit.
Tax preparation is becomingeasier and easier to do, and
(14:49):
it's becoming more and moreonerous on tax professionals.
So if you want to hire a taxprofessional right now, if you
want to hire a CPA to do yourtax returns, it's becoming
harder and harder to find one.
The CPA profession is...
Not going to say it's adying profession, but it kind
of is a dying profession.
(15:09):
The young people arenot coming into it.
They're not being able toreplace the retirees in
any way, shape or form.
And where they are going intoit is they're going into these
giant audit companies andthese giant finance companies.
No one's coming intothe individual small
practice anymore.
So what's happening iswe refer clients out.
We are having a hard time tryingto refer clients to CPAs unless
(15:33):
it's a really complex situation.
If you've got rental properties,and if you've got all sorts
of different things, andyou're used to paying a
couple thousand dollars tohave your taxes prepared,
we can find you somebody.
But if you're someone whopaid $500 to your local CPA,
and all of a sudden he's 75,80 years old, and they're not
doing it anymore, trying tofind somebody else can become
really, really difficult.
(15:54):
That's where we're sayingTurboTax is a great solution.
H&R Block, for mostpeople, is a good solution.
But most people's situationis not complex enough where
you can't do it yourself.
And here's my prediction.
Do you have a prediction?
But-
Dave Schmidt (16:13):
Josh predicts the future.
Oh yeah.
Is that good or no?
Josh Bretl (16:17):
Yeah.
Dave Schmidt (16:17):
Okay.
Josh Bretl (16:17):
I like it.
Dave Schmidt (16:18):
All right.
Josh Bretl (16:18):
That's a good one.
You really like to endthings with, "Yeah."
Dave Schmidt (16:20):
I do.
Yeah, it's just me.
Yeah, man, that's the way I am.
Josh Bretl (16:24):
I think with AI and the automated intelligence of
everything going on right now,that what will happen in the
near future, meaning within thenext 10 years, you will just
get a letter from the IRS thatsays, "Here's your income we
see, here's your deductions wesee, here's the taxes you owe.
There won't be tax preparationfor 95% of America.
Dave Schmidt (16:44):
That'd be nice.
Josh Bretl (16:45):
Yeah.
And it's there.
They almost have thetechnology already.
I think tax preparationwill actually be going away.
Dave Schmidt (16:50):
Hashtag Josh tips.
Let's go AI.
Josh Bretl (16:53):
Let's go AI.
That does let lead back to thetax planning portion of it.
When you're trying tohire a professional, a tax
professional, where areyou going to find value?
And the value comes fromsomebody helping you reduce
the things that are taxable.
So to been able to find outdifferent scenarios that you may
not be able to take advantageof if the year's already passed.
(17:18):
All right, so let's talk aboutsome common tax planning tips
that people should look for.
The first thing you shouldlook at is deductions.
Are you maximizing deductions?
So what does that mean?
If you're still working,do you have your HSA?
Are you maximizingcontributions to your HSA?
If you're saving for college,529, depending on the state
(17:41):
you're in, can be different.
For example, we're herein the state of Illinois.
Federally 529s arenot deductible.
But in the state of Illinois, ifyou use the Illinois 529 plan,
you can deduct that on yourIllinois return, which, hey,
that's a thousand bucks a yearin your pocket that is better
off than somebody else's pocket.
That's a tax planning tip.
(18:03):
Where you contribute to.
So are you puttingmoney in a Roth IRA or a
traditional IRA, your 401k?
Where you're saving isa tax planning strategy.
How you're getting money outis a tax planning strategy.
Where are you going totake money from this year?
When are you going tostart social security as
a tax planning strategy?
(18:24):
Your non-qualified accounts,how are you going to get
money out without payingcapital gains taxes?
If you're going to invest individend-paying stocks or things
that produce income, where areyou going to hold those assets?
Those are all common incometax planning strategies.
Dave Schmidt (18:40):
I've heard you talk about these a lot.
It sounds like you're...
In that list you just wentover, there's a combination
of specific things forwhen you are retired and
when you're still working.
Am I right?
Am I mis-
Josh Bretl (18:51):
No, you're-
Dave Schmidt (18:51):
Mishearing you?
Josh Bretl (18:52):
You are dead right?
There's-
Dave Schmidt (18:53):
I know I am.
I love when you say that.
Say it again, Josh, slower.
Josh Bretl (18:56):
You are dead, right-
Dave Schmidt (18:58):
Oh yeah.
Josh Bretl (18:58):
Dave..
Dave Schmidt (18:59):
That's going to be the trailer.
Josh Bretl (19:01):
As you go through life, you have to realize that
your life circumstances change,and the tax rules change.
So there are different taxplanning strategies for
when A, you're young, haveyoung children, B, as you
get older, as you're stillworking, trying to retire.
And B, when you're a retiree.
And even a late-stage retiree.
(19:23):
If you're not spending as much,and you're not as traveling
and doing all the crazy things,there's some other areas that
we have to be concerned about.
Healthcare.
All of a sudden, if you'recoming up on some major
healthcare expenses.
So every stage of life yougo through has different
tax planning strategiesthat come to play.
Dave Schmidt (19:42):
We talked about, a few episodes ago, your old
tagline slash mission statement,tax-focused retirement planning.
And of course that is at thecore of what you do, but it
doesn't define you, Josh.
Doesn't define Josh andFSR Wealth Strategies.
Josh Bretl (20:00):
Dave?
Dave Schmidt (20:01):
Yeah?
Josh Bretl (20:02):
Someday, I always thought, probably
be fun to work with Dave.
Dave Schmidt (20:05):
Yeah, sure.
Everybody I'veever met said that.
Josh Bretl (20:09):
You don't meet many people, but it's-
Dave Schmidt (20:11):
four.
Josh Bretl (20:11):
Yeah.
But I always thought in my mind,no, he's too out there; he would
never be a part of our business.
But truly, you added something,when you came into our office,
that was exactly what we needed.
And a lot of it has to dowith that, as you looked at
the bigger picture and as wechanged that mission statement.
Because you are right.
(20:32):
I still believe that thetax-focused retirement planning
is what sets us apart, whywe're different than other
people in the industry.
But it's not what we believe in.
It's not everything that we do.
And it's just a portion of thatability to own your retirement.
Dave Schmidt (20:47):
It's just a small bit.
I do appreciate yourecognizing what I bring.
I bring to the office wrinklyclothes, occasional bad hygiene.
No, I'm just kidding.
Totally messing.
Josh Bretl (20:55):
You never smell.
Dave Schmidt (20:56):
No, I don't 'cause I have my Bath and
Body Works lotion to coverup every possible odor.
Aw man, this is a good one.
It's a feel-good one.
Josh Bretl (21:05):
It is.
And it's that who would win?
And by the way, thisisn't even a competition.
Tax planning has beaten thesnot out of tax preparation.
Now, tax preparationis something that
you got to deal with.
Tax preparation's like,"Ugh, I got to do it."
Dave Schmidt (21:19):
sure, sure.
Josh Bretl (21:20):
But it's not nearly as important.
If you can figure out how todo the tax preparation, it
doesn't impact you as much as...
It's a pain in the butt.
It's not fun.
But if you can figure out howto do it, it's super easy.
The tax planningprovides real value.
It provides a life-changingopportunity to your
(21:41):
financial picture.
Dave Schmidt (21:42):
Josh, I have a pretty good analogy too,
which I'm going to runthis by Erin; maybe we
can rebrand this later on.
But this is essentiallyDave versus Josh one-on-one
in the basketball court.
Dave is tax planning.
Josh is tax preparation.
Who would win?
If you listened to anyof our other glory days
stories, you know that Davewould win in a landslide.
Josh Bretl (22:02):
Somehow you made taxes about
high school basketball.
Dave Schmidt (22:07):
I can always tie it back to that.
Yeah.
Hey Mr.
Josh, let's take a break.
You've been talking for solong and my ears are sore.
Let's not make them snore.
Listening shouldn't be a chore.
So let's get to know Josh andDave and watch our ratings soar!
(22:37):
So what I liked about that,it was one single "Mwah."
You've done a"Mwah, mwah" before.
This was a single "Mwah."
So congratulations.
Josh Bretl (22:45):
It was a big bird.
It was a long big bird call.
Dave Schmidt (22:49):
I like that.
That's impressive.
You have not been using a Poddeck, I think, since episode 20.
So they're sittingthere, they're pretty.
They were not free, by the way.
I paid for those withoutyour credit card.
Josh Bretl (23:02):
Well, that's when you thought you were
going to be doing a lot morepodcasts with different people.
Dave Schmidt (23:08):
Yeah, that's true.
Then people actually heardme, and they're like,
"Yeah, we're not going to."
So what you gotfor me today, Josh?
Deep thoughts.
Should I pull a cardout and read one?
Josh Bretl (23:18):
I haven't let you pick the question-
Dave Schmidt (23:20):
No.
Josh Bretl (23:21):
In a year, probably.
Dave Schmidt (23:23):
There's a little story behind this one for
me, so I'm going to read it.
It's not the most creative one.
It's also not inappropriate.
What's the strangestthing you've ever seen in
the middle of the road?
Josh Bretl (23:34):
The strangest thing I've ever seen in
the middle of a road?
Dave Schmidt (23:37):
Mm-hmm.
Josh Bretl (23:39):
I don't know if it's in the middle of the road, but
I'm going to go with this answeranyways 'cause I can't think of
one for the middle of the road.
But our old house, our backyard,I was in early twenties, I'm
doing my own landscaping.
And they had these big,overgrown bushes in
the back of the house.
And I was like, "I'm goingto rip these bushes out.
We're going to put somenice landscaping in."
And there's these giantgreen evergreen things.
(23:59):
I'm chopping them down.
And I'm dripping of sweat.
And I finally get the bigovergrowth brought up.
And underneath these bushesare 10 concrete yard gnomes,
a yard squirrel, a concretesquirrel, and a microwave.
Dave Schmidt (24:20):
Stop it.
Wait, is this yourhouse or your parents'?
Josh Bretl (24:22):
This is my house, my old house.
Dave Schmidt (24:25):
What?
Josh Bretl (24:25):
Yeah.
And we have saved this squirrel.
The gnomes didn'tlive much longer.
But the squirrel has come withus to the new house because
it's such a funny story.
And we're like-
Dave Schmidt (24:38):
oh.
Josh Bretl (24:38):
This bushes, you could've found a dead body
under there, it would've fit.
But who puts amicrowave under a bush?
Dave Schmidt: Gosh, that's awful. (24:44):
undefined
Okay, is this squirrel out inyour yard now, so next time
I come over I can see him?
Josh Bretl (24:50):
I think he's hidden in the backyard.
I think he's tucked awayin the back corner there.
Dave Schmidt (24:54):
It's like the plastic Santa that we used
to pass around from house tohouse when we were younger.
Josh Bretl (25:00):
Oh, that still goes out in my house.
Dave Schmidt (25:01):
Oh, I bet.
Josh Bretl (25:02):
It sits in my backyard every winter.
And I-
Dave Schmidt (25:04):
I bet it does.
Josh Bretl (25:04):
Send a picture to Phil and Joanne of it.
Dave Schmidt (25:07):
Mine is not super rare, but you know
how in my family, we loveto ridicule our parents?
I think all kids, it'sa rite of passage.
You just make funof your parents.
And there's stories thatwe carry with us from
young childhood to today.
So every time we get together,we're going to Colorado in June-
Josh Bretl (25:23):
Yeah.
Dave Schmidt (25:23):
We will tell a story.
But we were-
Josh Bretl (25:26):
I love when your sisters sit around and-
Dave Schmidt (25:27):
oh yeah.
Josh Bretl (25:28):
Tell a story.
Dave Schmidt (25:28):
Oh, it's the best.
I'm going to say I wasprobably late elementary
school, early middle school.
And we were in DoorCounty, that was our annual
trip up to Door County.
We were driving on the roadat night, and we came across
a deer that had just been hit.
Right.
Okay.
And so he was alreadydeceased and everything.
And me and my sisters werejust distraught 'cause we
(25:49):
had never seen this before.
We were just distraught.
And my mom, Becks, in trueBecks fashion, goes, "Ugh,
they're overpopulated anyway"and just kept on driving.
You can imagine me andJulie cried the whole way
home, saying, "How dare yousay something like that?"
(26:10):
And so to this day, we'llsay something like, "Hey, ma.
Did you see a deadhuman on the road?
Are humans overpopulated now?
Do you have a heart now?"
So yes, while not super rare,it still has a very funny
memory from we were kids.
Yeah, that's good old Becks.
Does that surprise you at all?
Josh Bretl (26:31):
No, but I am starting to realize, as a
parent, things come out of yourmouth that you realize are going
to come back later to haunt you.
Dave Schmidt (26:38):
Totally.
Josh Bretl (26:38):
So that may have been one of those for her.
Dave Schmidt (26:40):
Oh, without a doubt.
Josh Bretl (26:41):
So-
Dave Schmidt (26:41):
yeah.
I feel like we're- yeah.
Dave relates to retirees, yeah.
Thank you for nottalking over the end.
Josh Bretl (26:50):
See the, yeah, at the end?
Dave Schmidt (26:50):
Yeah, it was very nice.
Josh Bretl (26:51):
It was kind of like I knew it was coming.
Dave Schmidt (26:52):
Yeah, you did.
Josh Bretl (26:52):
Now-
Dave Schmidt (26:53):
yeah, sure.
Josh Bretl (26:54):
I've been running around the office this morning.
I had a client comein all of a sudden.
And every time I come in,you've been frantically
working on something, and Ithink this is it, so I'm dying
to hear what this DR2R is.
Dave Schmidt (27:05):
No, no, no.
Don't build it up that much'cause it's not going to live
up up to your expectations.
This is not what I'vebeen frantically doing.
I did this right beforewe started recording.
But dear retirees, soonto be retiree, as I always
say, I can relate to youon a deep level with this.
I look at this asreactive versus proactive.
Anybody, again, that knows meor has heard this podcast would
(27:25):
say I'm categorically reactive.
Would you agree?
Josh Bretl (27:30):
I would say you're generally a reactive person.
But you do think proactively.
Dave Schmidt (27:35):
Well, in my work life, I'm more proactive.
In my personal lifeand responsibilities-
Josh Bretl (27:39):
oh yeah.
Personal life, youare so reactive-
Dave Schmidt (27:41):
yeah.
Josh Bretl (27:41):
Yeah.
Dave Schmidt (27:41):
I mean things such as Josh and my
buddies say, "Dave, hey,we're going out for dinner.
You got your wallet on you?"
"Oh, I didn't planfor my wallet."
Or...
Josh Bretl (27:50):
If you are proactive in that, I'm
going to be really upset.
Dave Schmidt (27:52):
I know.
Or "Dave, hey, youneed to register Landon
for school next year.
Have you guys done that?"
"Oh.
Oh, no, no.
We'll get to it," or"Dave, have you washed your
clothes lately and you'rewearing fresh skivvies?"
"No, I didn't planfor that either."
But where I am proactive,friends, where I will never let
anybody down is when I am at agathering or at a party, I am
(28:16):
always the go-to to order pizza.
People always come to meand say, "Dave, how many
pizzas should we order?"
And this has happened a dozen ormore times throughout my life.
And while that may seemreactive on the face, when
I walk into a room, any roomat any given moment, any time
in my life, I am planning forhow much pizza I should order.
I walked into the officetoday, I said, "There's
(28:39):
eight of us here.
Okay, I'm going to need twolarge pizzas from Mama Maria's."
I always know.
So I am always proactivelyseeking what pizza to order.
Moral of the story (28:47):
got to order pizza, give me a call.
Josh Bretl (28:51):
I wish you all could see what's
inside my brain right now.
Dave Schmidt (28:54):
Yeah.
I kind of want to know.
Josh Bretl (28:55):
Well, I'm glad I built that one up.
Dave Schmidt (28:57):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (28:59):
So-
Dave Schmidt (28:59):
I was going to say.
I'm just saying, man.
Proactive pizza guy here.
Josh Bretl (29:04):
Well, first off, you are right.
We do go to you forpizza decisions.
Dave Schmidt (29:08):
Always.
Josh Bretl (29:09):
On the who would win category though, I don't
know if it really ties into taxplanning versus tax preparation.
Dave Schmidt (29:16):
Oh no, I was going reactive versus proactive.
Josh Bretl (29:18):
Is that what it was?
Dave Schmidt (29:19):
Yes, that's what I was saying.
Josh Bretl (29:19):
The importance.
Dave Schmidt (29:20):
Yeah.
Okay, let me wrap a bow aroundthis because that's a phrase you
struggled with last podcast was-
Josh Bretl (29:26):
oh, a bow.
Tie a bow around it?
Dave Schmidt (29:28):
Yeah, tie a bow around.
Yeah, something like that.
You may be reactive in allother sorts of life, but when
it comes to your taxes andyour money, be proactive, just
like I am with ordering pizza.
How about that?
I gotcha, didn't I?
You're emotional right now.
You are struggling forwords, I can see it.
Josh Bretl (29:48):
I think what you say makes sense.
But I think when we talkabout the importance of
proactive versus reactive,being proactive is important.
And that would make sense wheretax planning, being proactive,
is way more valuable than taxpreparation, being reactive.
Dave Schmidt (30:10):
Sure.
Josh Bretl (30:11):
But I will also say that I made a point to
say that tax preparation isreally a pain in the butt, but
it's relatively easy to do.
And well, ordering pizza isa pain in the butt 'cause you
got to make a lot of peoplehappy, and no one's ever
happy all the way through,and it's a pain in the butt.
But it's not that hardto pick up the phone and
say, "Hey Mama Maria, sendme two large cheeses."
(30:33):
And-
Dave Schmidt (30:34):
we disagree.
... Josh Bretl (30:37):
where I actually think the importance would
play into getting your kidregistered for school and
washing your underwear andthings along those lines.
Some would argue that thoseanimals in the wild would
be more dominating than theproactive needs to order pizza.
(30:57):
But-
Dave Schmidt (30:58):
We can agree to disagree.
Josh Bretl (30:59):
We can.
Dave Schmidt (31:00):
Yeah.
Josh Bretl (31:00):
We can.
But I hope everyone canagree that tax planning
provides way more valueto retirees and soon-to-be
retirees than tax preparation.
Dave Schmidt (31:14):
Sure.
I'm going to give youthis win here today, Josh.
This is all yours.
Josh Bretl (31:22):
Who would win, Josh versus Dave-
Dave Schmidt (31:25):
Well-
Josh Bretl (31:25):
The ultimate battle?
... Dave Schmidt (31:26):
today, it was not very ultimate.
Josh kicked my butt.
This is good.
I like these who would win?
You know what?
I'm thinking I might actuallywrite and illustrate a
book for our listenersabout this episode.
I'll make our own WhoWould Win book for tax
prep versus tax planning.
Josh Bretl (31:46):
I'd like to see how tax planning is illustrated
versus tax preparation.
Dave Schmidt (31:49):
I'll have special guest, Alex Bretl, to explain
the differences in kid terms,and I'll illustrate it out.
Josh Bretl (31:58):
That's awesome.
That's awesome.
Dave Schmidt (31:59):
We'll give them out at the client
events coming up here.
Alrighty Josh, what's instore here for next episode?
Josh Bretl (32:08):
The next episode.
I wanted to talk a littlebit more about some of the
things you should look forin hiring the right advisor.
If you're going to truly ownyour retirement, what should
you be looking for, whatshouldn't you be looking for?
A little bit of aWho Would Win theory.
But we've talked about a lotof really in-depth topics
(32:29):
in the last couple months.
If you were looking for help,I wanted to put out there some
of the things that you shouldbe asking, some of the things
that you should be looking for.
And I think our next topicwill be a proactive, if you
will, approach to hiring theright person to help you,
if that's what you shouldchoose to do in your life.
Dave Schmidt (32:52):
All right.
Who would win?
I thought we were going towrap up at around 20 minutes,
and we clearly did not.
So-
Josh Bretl (32:57):
We did not.
Dave Schmidt (32:58):
No.
Josh Bretl (32:58):
I think that has to do with the random
stories at the end.
Dave Schmidt (33:01):
The random stories and the epic who DR2R.
Josh Bretl (33:04):
Epic.
Dave Schmidt (33:05):
So yeah.
I did get a message from my dadreally quick, and he said he
is disheartened that we havedropped the, "Bye,' even though
we kind of started doing it.
He said, "However, changeis not always bad."
He's very prophetic, mydad, he's just a wise man.
So-
Josh Bretl (33:19):
prophetic?
Dave Schmidt (33:20):
Prophetic.
Josh Bretl (33:20):
Is he okay?
Dave Schmidt (33:22):
Doesn't that mean he's very profound, and-
Josh Bretl (33:24):
I have no idea.
Dave Schmidt (33:24):
He speaks prophecies, and he's-
Josh Bretl (33:26):
You know who's not prophetic?
Dave Schmidt (33:27):
Who?
Josh Bretl (33:27):
This guy.
Dave Schmidt (33:27):
Yeah, that's true.
So until we figureout what to say, we're
going to just go with...
Bye.
Josh Bretl (33:37):
That ended longer than I thought I was going to.
Dave Schmidt (33:39):
That's what happens when we have fun.
Alex (33:42):
Hashtag tax nerd.
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