June 25, 2025 • 34 mins
In this first episode of our new series, The Real Thing, we confront a subtle but powerful lie many of us have believed: that following Jesus means managing our lives better. From color-coded binders to constant striving, we’ve both fallen into the trap of believing that more control equals more freedom. But Jesus didn’t come to help us manage our sin—He came to give us life to the full. That doesn’t mean a perfect life, but a deep, soul-satisfying connection with Him that begins now.
We share personal stories of how “management mode” drained us—Heidi in her struggles with fear-driven weight control, and Christina in the midst of her mom’s Alzheimer's journey, where surrender brought surprising peace. We’re learning that true freedom comes not through tighter grip, but through trust. We close with simple breath prayers and practical steps to help you move from self-reliance to relationship. You were made for more than managing—you were made for real life with God.
Learn more about our Revelation Within Community: https://www.revelationwithin.org
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
Hi and welcome to our podcast Revelation Within On
the Go.
I'm Heidi Bilesma-Epperson, oneof your hosts and the owner and
lead coach of theRevelationWithinorg ministry.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a
Revelation Within coach andHeidi's partner in all things
Revelation Within.
We are so happy to invite youto join us for this episode of
Revelation Within on the go.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Come on in, Sit right down.
Well, today we are beginning athree-part series.
That well, we've got a couplenames for it, but the short one
because, you know me, I like thewhole name.
I guess the short name is theReal Thing.
Oh, I love that, the Real Thing.
What is the Real Thing?
(00:56):
We're going?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
to find out.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
We're going to find out.
We're going to unpack it overthe next three episodes and in
this first episode we're goingto look at a quiet lie so many
of us have believed.
Ooh, let's dig in, right?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
away.
Let's get straight to it.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Goodness, a quiet lie , okay, okay, let's another way
we put it.
Yes, manage our sin, manage ourcravings, manage our life,
manage our marriage, manage ourkids, manage our schedule.
Manage, yes, that's the best wecan do.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Kind of like fake it till you, make it.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yes, Exactly Moon, though.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Kind of like survival mode.
I hear people say thatsometimes I'm in survival mode.
You've never said that.
I've said it, have I said thatAbout a million times?
Okay, okay, so we'll wrap ourbrains around that.
But what God is inviting usinto is something so much better
(02:08):
.
I mean, what if he is?
What if that's really true?
What if the abundant life thathe talks about in his word is
not just managing?
What if freedom isn't aboutcontrol but about connection?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
isn't about control, but about connection.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I'm going to just take a minute to pray for our
time together.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Okay, jesus, you already know the places where
we've settled for small stories.
God, those are the places wherewe clench our fists and call it
obedience.
Oh, how I've been guilty ofthat so many times.
Lord, would you help us seewhat you're really inviting us
into today?
Help us unclench, help us totrust and help us to open in
(02:57):
Jesus' name, amen.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Amen.
Okay.
So Heidi, you and I have bothlived in seasons where life with
God has felt like a list, anexhausting attempt to just keep
ourselves in check, to do better, to pull ourselves up, to get
with the program, to manage themess.
(03:22):
We have both experienced thatmany, many times.
You could even call us experts,I think.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Oh yes, I've had multiple binders going at once.
This is the one for my quiettime, which tells me how to have
a good quiet time, and thenthere's the one that what are
all the chores I have to dotoday?
What are the things on myschedule?
And another note oh my gosh.
I used to believe and live asthough if I could just find the
right plan, the right programfor my prayers, my quiet times,
(03:52):
whatever, I could live infreedom.
Oh, my goodness but obviously Iwas just really managing myself
like a problem to fix, not aperson God loves.
My perspective on life and onthe life God had given me was
(04:12):
that I was too big of a mess todo it right.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So I better go into fix it mode.
Yes, well, and did those boxesever all get checked in one?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
day.
I think I know somebody whomakes her boxes at the end of
the day.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yes, well, that's kind of a shift that I had over
the years, for sure, but we do,we get stuck.
We get stuck in trying to checkoff all the boxes, trying to
figure it all out, trying tomake it happen in a way that's
better.
I hear people, and myselfsaying things like well, this
week was bananas, but next weekis going to be so much better,
(04:51):
and it's like is it though?
Oh, I hope you don't say that.
No, just in terms of, are wekind of creating a mindset that
says if life isn't crazy, we'renot doing enough?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Oh I know, Isn't that the truth?
And then, what kind of addsinsult to injury is?
We have set up our own form ofrighteousness, sort of.
It's like a form of godliness,but devoid of the power, like it
says in the scriptures.
And I'm thinking all my chartsand lists and graphs and
checkboxes and all of that.
That is not what God had inmind for me, and he probably
(05:29):
doesn't have it in mind.
I mean, there's nothing wrongwith being organized, don't
misunderstand me, but it was forme.
I had had a God honoring day ifI had checked my boxes off Right
, A productive day right.
I had a friend that at the endof each day his question was
well, heidi, did you have aproductive day?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I know.
But I mean, how many of us gettogether with our girlfriends or
you know, and say, well, howwas your day?
Well, my day, oh my gosh, youwouldn't believe how crazy my
day was.
And then you go down the listand then the other person says,
yeah, but you don't have thisgoing on.
I've got this and this and thisand you should hear about my
(06:13):
day.
Yeah, but my, and we get into acomparison game and it's like
you know, it's like I said ifwe're not feeling crazy,
stressed, chaotic said if we'renot feeling crazy, stressed,
chaotic, it's almost like wefeel like we're doing something
wrong, right, right.
Managing actually feels in themoment kind of like control.
(06:34):
It feels like we're in controlbecause we have all the books
and the binders and thechecklists and the to-do lists
and the plans and theaccountability partners all of
that right and the plans and theaccountability partners, all of
that right.
But control feels safer thansurrender.
Wait, say that again.
Okay, control often feels well,it just does it feels safer in
(07:00):
the moment than surrender.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, that's an intense phrase.
It is, it is.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
It really is.
It's like, oh wow, that makesme intense phrase.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It is, it is, it really is.
It's like, oh wow, that makesme want to just stop, because I
can cling to it and then I am incontrol of it.
Surrender is something elseentirely, and it's scary.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yes, john 10.10 says that this is Jesus, of course
speaking, the thief comes onlyto steal and kill and destroy.
I have come that they may havelife and have it to the full.
When I think of life to thefull, I do not think of lists
and binders and check boxes atall.
(07:41):
And yet that's yeah, that's thedirection I tend to go.
Even recently, I pulled out abinder and said I will use this
for my blah blah blah Binders,but not for blah blah blah.
Anyway, jesus didn't say I havecome, that they may manage
their impulses, reject theircravings or whatever else.
(08:05):
He said I have come and ofcourse that implies he's come to
earth.
He's come to die on the crossand be raised from the grave so
that we could have life to thefull.
That is not just making it orjust managing.
That's not the real thing.
That is not just making it orjust managing.
(08:26):
That's not the real thing.
And I want to do a little Greekgeeking out here for a moment.
The word translated full orabundant in many translations is
the Greek word perissos orperissos, the root meaning.
You might need to know thatsomeday, the root meaning you
(08:51):
might need to know that someday,the root meaning is exceeding
beyond the expected, more thanenough.
That is the kind of life hecame to give us, and so what it
means in this context that Greekword perisos is an intensifier.
It means something superior inquality and excessive in
quantity.
Wow.
Yes, it doesn't just implyplenty in a material sense, but
(09:14):
overflow in every sense,overflow of joy, of peace,
overflow of love, of purpose, ofconnection, flow of love of
purpose, of connection.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Wow, wow, yeah, wow.
What about running faster?
What about doing more?
What about that long, long list?
What about striving, workingharder?
That's not why Jesus came.
(09:47):
Well, I just love what you justsaid, heidi.
I love that you're bringing upthis amazing question.
It's like why did Jesus comeand what does he long for us?
So let's get deeper into it.
I'm loving this, oh good, good,good.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Well, when he says he came to give us life to the
full, he's not talking aboutbusy, successful or believe it
or not and I know somebody needsto hear this, maybe even me as
well Pain-free life.
He didn't come to give us thosethings.
He came to give us life to thefull.
(10:17):
And and the thing is, some ofus may have our own little
definitions about what life tothe full would look like, but
he's talking about abundantpresence, his abundant presence,
his vision, his promises, hiseverything that we need in him.
And he's talking about deepsoul satisfaction, eternal
(10:40):
richness.
And it starts now, not once wedie.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
That sounds really, really good.
Maybe somebody is running rightnow while they're listening to
this, or they're in their carand they're rushing, rushing and
racing and striving, andwhatever it is.
I need to hear this.
Maybe somebody out there needsthis too.
I know they do?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, definitely.
Well, this kind of abundancethat Jesus has promised to give
us doesn't depend oncircumstances.
The children can still be sick,or somebody can be late to my
appointment or whatever itdoesn't require performance and
(11:25):
it absolutely can't be measuredby the world's standards.
I mean, and that's just it is.
We get swept up in what thisworld says is successful life,
but that is that the abundantlife Jesus came to give us.
No, jesus has come to give usthe abundant life, and it's not
(11:45):
a just enough life.
It's not getting by, it's notmaking it.
It's instead overflowing,surprising, soul-quenching,
deep-rooted shalom life.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yes, yes, oh, that sounds so good.
So I mean, life is busy andcrazy for many of us in
different seasons, right?
So this isn't dependent on that.
It's not like, well, next monthis going to be, you know, much
slower for me.
It's not about that, it's aboutsomething deep down inside and
(12:21):
in our relationship with Christ.
I love that yeah me too.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Let's go to Romans eight, one and two.
Therefore, there is now nocondemnation for those who are
in Christ Jesus.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Pause for a moment.
Hallelujah, lord.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Thank you, yes, oh my gosh, this is true for all of
us.
There is no condemnation forthose of us who are in Christ
Jesus, for the law of the spiritof life has set you free, in
Christ Jesus, from the law ofsin, and death.
Good news we have been set free.
(12:58):
I mean, how many of us actuallyfeel free?
It's tricky, right.
It's like what is?
freedom.
So let's dig in a little deeper.
That phrase set you free comesfrom the Greek word elutherou,
which means not just releasedfrom bondage, but released into
(13:19):
something new.
That is so amazing.
I mean, really, this isn't sinmanagement that we're talking
about, it's life with God, lifein the spirit, right?
So maybe the real question iswhat am I living from right now?
(13:41):
From, not, for what am I livingfrom?
Am I living from fear, no, frompressure, or am I living from
the spirit of God?
Big question there.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Oh, my goodness, I have another true confession,
and this goes way back in timeto the late 1990s and my quest
to be free of baby fat after Ihad my kids I'm sorry I'm
bringing it up, I know had mykids I'm sorry I'm bringing it
(14:15):
up, I know, but anyway I decidedafter and this was before I had
any exposure to thin within atall or what we do today in
revelation within, of course Icommitted to weight watchers.
Yes, you did, you sure did, Idid, and I was really good at it
too, cause it had the boxes andthe check marks and the stars
and the balloons and thecelebration of the meeting.
(14:36):
I loved it.
I clung so tightly to my foodboundaries I was afraid to mess
up and besides that, I wasconvinced that this was my way
to honor God with my eating.
I was very successful from theworld's perspective, but
underneath that was a huge lackof peace, because the fear drove
(15:02):
me.
I was like hugging that scaleand the number that was on it
and I didn't want to let go orever look again because I was
afraid it would change.
I had lost a ton of weight,whatever, but I was managing my
behavior and I would have toldyou I was praying about it and
(15:22):
talking about it to the Lord andto others, but I don't think I
ever really brought my heart toJesus over it.
Instead, that death grip that Ihad on the bathroom scale
caused just such fear in me.
I had an accountability partner, of course, who said you've got
to hand me the scale becauseit's going on right now.
Yeah, and again, if you hadasked me, I would have told you
(15:46):
I was honoring the Lord with myeating and fitness endeavors.
It's interesting to me becauseI know so many people feel that
way, and then we look back laterand we go oh wow.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's so true, that's so real.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
The Lord convicted me , though, of this, and so
clearly it's like he said to meI'm not asking you to manage
yourself, I'm asking you to walkwith me.
Let go of the death grip, girl.
Keep your eyes on me and followme.
Let me love you as you are andas I love you into who you will
(16:26):
be and who you are becoming andwho you are becoming.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Oh my gosh, heidi, that is such an amazing story
and it's not.
It's not even that there'ssomething so wrong with what you
were trying to do.
I mean it wasn't.
You thought you were doing theright thing.
You thought this is what I'mcalled to to strive and run
(16:54):
faster and work harder andbecome this amazing quote,
unquote you know which the worldwould say amazing.
So that makes sense.
I mean, I can totally relate tothat, although while you were
getting all the balloons andaccolades, I was like throwing
the brochure back in the trashand giving up again.
Okay, so a story for me that Iwould love to share.
(17:15):
That was just, oh my gosh, soso tough A time when I was
trying to do it myself.
You know, some of you know thatmy mom had Alzheimer's disease
and we had a 10 year journeywith her and my dad and she is
in heaven now with a brand newbrain and doing great.
But there was a time in thestory with my mom and dad where
(17:39):
my mom did not know who I wasanymore and I was crushed.
I was just completely crushedand I had to grieve that she
would see me coming and shewould know that I was special
and important to her in some wayand she would smile and say
hello, like I was visiting avisiting friend.
But I knew that she could not,in her brain, figure out how I
(18:04):
came into her story.
You know, with Alzheimer'sdisease you go backward in
memories, and so she had gonebackward to the point where she
didn't remember having childrenand she was dating my dad, which
was actually really sweet andfun.
But it wasn't fun when shecouldn't figure out who I was.
And so I remember feeling likethis is a problem to fix.
(18:29):
What am I going to do?
I'm going to show her photoalbums, I'm going to bring this,
I'm going to plan this, I'mgoing to figure out a way to
help her remember who I am.
Oh, that sounds so hard, I meantalk about striving, talk about
running fast, running fast.
(18:49):
Talk about working against adisease that was taking my mom's
brain away and I was gettingnowhere fast.
I mean, I would bring things Iwould share stories, talk about.
When I was young I tried sohard.
Yeah, you did and every time Ishowed up again at the
(19:11):
Alzheimer's center, I had tostart over every single time.
You know, like Groundhog Day,that movie, that old movie.
I could not move forward.
I was stuck in the same place,visit after visit, and then I
took it to God, talked with himabout it and I had no idea what
(19:33):
he was going to do.
And he did the most amazingthing, just something so
creative and God-like, somethingthat I would never have figured
out on my own.
Several visits later, even maybea month later, I don't remember
my mom.
In her mind, in her brain, shegave me a role that she could
understand in her life and sheturned me into her best friend
(19:57):
in high school.
And it was a real person, and Ididn't even know if she was
alive.
It was, you know, from herexperience in Germany.
And she gave me a name, and myname was Erica, and she told me
all about who I was, what I didwell, all the fun that they had,
and I became her best friendfor the last two years of her
(20:19):
life, that's so sweet.
It's just amazing, isn't that soamazing?
How God did that?
And at first, yes, I grieved,not really being her daughter
anymore.
I mean, certainly I was.
But you know, I would walk inand the nurse would say oh,
silke, your daughter's here andI would say you know, I'm Erica,
(20:41):
I'm here to visit you.
And I took on the role and itwas wonderful because she was so
sad that she couldn't remember.
If somebody said to her don'tyou remember?
Oh yeah.
Oh it would just tear her up.
It made her feel so sad.
And so to be able to replace myrole with a best friend, that
(21:03):
was almost better, because mymom and I had not really been
friends not really.
I had not really been friends,not really.
We had a tough relationship,and so it was just an amazing
gift.
God said, christina, you don'thave to do this alone, I'm not
worried, I already have a plan.
And he did, and then I was ableto let go and really enjoy
(21:26):
having a best friend and my momfor two years before she passed
years, you could stop driving.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Oh my gosh, that would make those visits filled
with so much pressure.
Yes, what magic concoction canI come up with between photo
albums and stories and itemsfrom her you know, home or past
or whatever?
Yeah, that would be just reallytough.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Thank, you for sharing.
I'm so thankful that God tookover and I I let him, yeah.
So one of the things that Heidiand I both love to do to help
us with the letting go, to helpus with resting in him in these,
these moments, is breathprayers.
So we have a breath prayer thatwe'd love to introduce to you
(22:14):
and, of course, breath prayersare so simple.
It's just breathing in and outand adding in truth, from the
word of God, whether it's ascripture or truth, that lines
up with the word, and that's allit is.
It's so simple and beautifuland it calms us down physically
while feeding our souls and ourminds.
(22:35):
Basically, so go ahead andbreathe in with me, let's take a
deep breath and let's saytogether I was made for more.
Breathe out then managing.
(22:56):
So I was made for more thanmanaging.
Let's do it again Breathe in, Iwas made for more.
Breathe out, then managing.
One more time Breathe in, I wasmade for more.
(23:20):
Breathe out Than managing.
And then we have one more foryou.
This one is also very beautiful.
Breathe in and say you offer melife.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
You offer me life.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Breathe out to the full, to the full, breathe in.
You are from life to the full.
Yay, thank you for doing that.
(24:08):
That was awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Well, when we're managing perhaps you could see
this by Christina's story or mystory we're often holding really
tight really tight whiteknuckling our way through.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yes, but you know, living with Jesus, that is open
hands, it's being interruptible.
It's being interruptible.
I know allowing theinterruptions that are somehow
ordained by God.
Welcoming them, welcoming.
Welcoming them welcominginterruptions, being teachable,
(24:44):
being open, reachable, restingin the truth that he is the
shepherd and we're not.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
That's kind of a relief when you think about it.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I don't have to, you don't have to figure out your
mom.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
He had it figured out he had it.
Galatians 5.1 says it is forfreedom that Christ has set us
free.
Stand firm, then, and do notlet yourselves be burdened again
by a yoke of slavery.
And really that's the thingmanaging.
On the outside we may feel likeit looks really good and like
(25:20):
I've got this thing figured out,I've got it wired, I've got my
act together, but really, inside, so very often managing can
feel like bondage, like we arechains, and then Jesus, of
course, says let me carry that,let me carry this, bring it to
me.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, managing for me .
It brings me to a place ofoverwhelm which sometimes just
stops me completely.
Like I'm paralyzed by it.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Me too.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
So Psalm 32, eight is a beautiful gentle promise.
A beautiful gentle promise Iwill instruct you and teach you
in the way you should go.
I will counsel you with myloving eye on you.
Oh, my goodness, he's nothanding us a spreadsheet and
(26:07):
saying get it together.
He's saying walk with me, I'vealready got it, I've got you,
I've got everything.
Just walk with me, just walkwith me.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Maybe somebody is listening to this, saying but
how do I do that?
What does it actually look like?
And you know the way I have tothink of it is.
It's not about a quiet time,it's not about more quiet times.
It's not about opening theBible more.
It's about recognizing thateach moment I can touch the hem
(26:41):
of Jesus's garment, he is there.
I can experience his powerflowing into me.
Like the woman who had theissue of blood, she reached for
him in that moment and he iswith us constantly.
And really I'd say, jesus, whereare you right now?
(27:03):
You're with me, but where arewe going?
What do you want me to do rightnow?
Is this what you're calling meto right now?
And if we don't think we hearanything, you know what?
That's okay.
He takes that load and thatresponsibility and as long as
we're asking the question, jesus, please lead me.
He will do it.
He will do it one way or theother and sometimes, if we don't
think we hear him, it oftenmeans I'm right here with you.
(27:27):
Just keep doing what you'redoing, right?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yes, oh, I love that I do too.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I am so glad you know .
It's funny.
It just popped into my headjust now and I don't know if
I've mentioned in a long time,so I'm going to mention it now
that my great grandfather wrotethe words to he leadeth me,
which is a hymn that has beenknown in the Christian church
for ages.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
It is.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
He leadetheth me.
O blessed thought.
I don't know the rest of theword, but I mean he does.
He is right there.
Anyway, friend, where have youbeen trying to manage your life,
your way to freedom?
Is it with food, eating andweight, like it was for me in
that story I shared, and that'snot the only realm where I do
(28:12):
that.
Maybe it's with shopping less,like having a budget and there's
nothing wrong with having abudget, but we want to walk with
Jesus.
We want to recognize he's God,not the budget.
Is it what you read or watch?
Is there like the struggle topursue things that aren't as
holy as you might want them tobe?
(28:34):
Maybe it's time spent on socialmedia.
I tell you what.
That's where the comparisongame goes.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yes, many of us.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Where are your fists?
Clenched, like I'm going to dothis, I'm going to do it well
and nobody's going to ever beable to find fault with me.
Maybe you don't have that lastpart, but what would it look
like to open your hands today?
You know, clenched.
That's, exhausting, that'sexhausting.
(29:04):
Yes, open hands Freedom.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And that takes us back to that surrender that we
talked about at the very, verybeginning opening our hands,
surrendering.
So we have a few gentle wayshere that you can respond to
this episode, somethingpractical that you can take with
you.
The first one is just to askthe Lord.
Invite God in and just ask him.
(29:31):
Lord, where am I managinginstead of trusting?
Where is it in my life?
Show me where it is, open myeyes to it.
That's the first one.
The second one is a pause.
Place your hands palm up inyour lap, breathe deeply and
(29:52):
whisper.
I open to you.
I open to you.
Just spend that time instillness with him.
And then the third one is maybe, maybe you want to do some
journaling, or maybe this wouldbe a conversation that you have
(30:12):
with the Lord.
What would life to the fulllook like for me this summer,
coming right up in these nextfew months?
What would life to the fulllook like?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Good stuff, good stuff.
You know, you and I andChristina, we were never asked
to manage our way to peace.
You know, we were never askedto manage our way to peace.
We were invited by the God ofthe universe to step into
relationship with him, and thatrelationship is what brings real
freedom, real joy, real rest,real peace, real goodness.
(30:47):
We can go on and on, and thatis what we want to offer
ourselves to, and it is a bigact of surrender.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And it does.
It feels like to me that thewhole world is exhausted right
now.
Does it feel like that to you?
Yes, the whole world, it feelslike.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So if something in this episode stirred your heart,
if you felt a nudge or alonging for more, we would love
to invite you to join us in ourprivate online community it's a
space where we kind of practiceall of this together, not
perfectly of course, buthonestly, with grace, scripture
and a lot of jesus, and you cantry it for free for a month, if
(31:27):
your heart said yes, even alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Maybe that's the spirit's invitation just come
and be with us for a while.
You can get the details byvisiting wwwrevelationwithinorg.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yay, jesus, we are so done with white knuckling our
way through life.
You never asked us to be ourown savior.
Thank you, lord, thank you thatyou did not ask me to do that.
Thank you, lord, for being ourshepherd, for offering us more
(32:01):
than managing abundant life.
We want to say yes to that, yesto life with you, full, free
and real.
Thank you, lord, amen.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Amen.
So we'll be back soon withepisode two.
The danger of almost aconversation about why the
things we reach for don'tactually satisfy and how Jesus
offers us the real thing.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Until then, unclench your fists, open your hands and
remember you were made for morethan managing.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Join us for our next episode of Revelation Within on
the show.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
We'll see you then.
Bye, for now Bye.
Hi and welcome to our podcast Revelation Within On
the Go.
I'm Heidi Bilesma-Epperson, oneof your hosts and the owner and
lead coach of theRevelationWithinorg ministry.
Speaker 2 (00:14):
And I'm Christina Motley, your other host, also a
Revelation Within coach andHeidi's partner in all things
Revelation Within.
We are so happy to invite youto join us for this episode of
Revelation Within on the go.
Speaker 1 (00:36):
Come on in, Sit right down.
Well, today we are beginning athree-part series.
That well, we've got a couplenames for it, but the short one
because, you know me, I like thewhole name.
I guess the short name is theReal Thing.
Oh, I love that, the Real Thing.
What is the Real Thing?
(00:56):
We're going?
Speaker 2 (00:56):
to find out.
Speaker 1 (00:57):
We're going to find out.
We're going to unpack it overthe next three episodes and in
this first episode we're goingto look at a quiet lie so many
of us have believed.
Ooh, let's dig in, right?
Speaker 2 (01:11):
away.
Let's get straight to it.
Speaker 1 (01:22):
Goodness, a quiet lie , okay, okay, let's another way
we put it.
Yes, manage our sin, manage ourcravings, manage our life,
manage our marriage, manage ourkids, manage our schedule.
Manage, yes, that's the best wecan do.
Speaker 2 (01:41):
Kind of like fake it till you, make it.
Speaker 1 (01:43):
Yes, Exactly Moon, though.
Speaker 2 (01:47):
Kind of like survival mode.
I hear people say thatsometimes I'm in survival mode.
You've never said that.
I've said it, have I said thatAbout a million times?
Okay, okay, so we'll wrap ourbrains around that.
But what God is inviting usinto is something so much better
(02:08):
.
I mean, what if he is?
What if that's really true?
What if the abundant life thathe talks about in his word is
not just managing?
What if freedom isn't aboutcontrol but about connection?
Speaker 1 (02:29):
isn't about control, but about connection.
Speaker 2 (02:30):
I'm going to just take a minute to pray for our
time together.
Speaker 1 (02:32):
Okay, jesus, you already know the places where
we've settled for small stories.
God, those are the places wherewe clench our fists and call it
obedience.
Oh, how I've been guilty ofthat so many times.
Lord, would you help us seewhat you're really inviting us
into today?
Help us unclench, help us totrust and help us to open in
(02:57):
Jesus' name, amen.
Speaker 2 (02:59):
Amen.
Okay.
So Heidi, you and I have bothlived in seasons where life with
God has felt like a list, anexhausting attempt to just keep
ourselves in check, to do better, to pull ourselves up, to get
with the program, to manage themess.
(03:22):
We have both experienced thatmany, many times.
You could even call us experts,I think.
Speaker 1 (03:29):
Oh yes, I've had multiple binders going at once.
This is the one for my quiettime, which tells me how to have
a good quiet time, and thenthere's the one that what are
all the chores I have to dotoday?
What are the things on myschedule?
And another note oh my gosh.
I used to believe and live asthough if I could just find the
right plan, the right programfor my prayers, my quiet times,
(03:52):
whatever, I could live infreedom.
Oh, my goodness but obviously Iwas just really managing myself
like a problem to fix, not aperson God loves.
My perspective on life and onthe life God had given me was
(04:12):
that I was too big of a mess todo it right.
Speaker 2 (04:15):
So I better go into fix it mode.
Yes, well, and did those boxesever all get checked in one?
Speaker 1 (04:22):
day.
I think I know somebody whomakes her boxes at the end of
the day.
Speaker 2 (04:27):
Yes, well, that's kind of a shift that I had over
the years, for sure, but we do,we get stuck.
We get stuck in trying to checkoff all the boxes, trying to
figure it all out, trying tomake it happen in a way that's
better.
I hear people, and myselfsaying things like well, this
week was bananas, but next weekis going to be so much better,
(04:51):
and it's like is it though?
Oh, I hope you don't say that.
No, just in terms of, are wekind of creating a mindset that
says if life isn't crazy, we'renot doing enough?
Speaker 1 (05:07):
Oh I know, Isn't that the truth?
And then, what kind of addsinsult to injury is?
We have set up our own form ofrighteousness, sort of.
It's like a form of godliness,but devoid of the power, like it
says in the scriptures.
And I'm thinking all my chartsand lists and graphs and
checkboxes and all of that.
That is not what God had inmind for me, and he probably
(05:29):
doesn't have it in mind.
I mean, there's nothing wrongwith being organized, don't
misunderstand me, but it was forme.
I had had a God honoring day ifI had checked my boxes off Right
, A productive day right.
I had a friend that at the endof each day his question was
well, heidi, did you have aproductive day?
Speaker 2 (05:52):
I know.
But I mean, how many of us gettogether with our girlfriends or
you know, and say, well, howwas your day?
Well, my day, oh my gosh, youwouldn't believe how crazy my
day was.
And then you go down the listand then the other person says,
yeah, but you don't have thisgoing on.
I've got this and this and thisand you should hear about my
(06:13):
day.
Yeah, but my, and we get into acomparison game and it's like
you know, it's like I said ifwe're not feeling crazy,
stressed, chaotic said if we'renot feeling crazy, stressed,
chaotic, it's almost like wefeel like we're doing something
wrong, right, right.
Managing actually feels in themoment kind of like control.
(06:34):
It feels like we're in controlbecause we have all the books
and the binders and thechecklists and the to-do lists
and the plans and theaccountability partners all of
that right and the plans and theaccountability partners, all of
that right.
But control feels safer thansurrender.
Wait, say that again.
Okay, control often feels well,it just does it feels safer in
(07:00):
the moment than surrender.
Speaker 1 (07:00):
Yeah, that's an intense phrase.
It is, it is.
Speaker 2 (07:04):
It really is.
It's like, oh wow, that makesme intense phrase.
Speaker 1 (07:07):
It is, it is, it really is.
It's like, oh wow, that makesme want to just stop, because I
can cling to it and then I am incontrol of it.
Surrender is something elseentirely, and it's scary.
Speaker 2 (07:17):
Yeah.
Speaker 1 (07:18):
Yes, john 10.10 says that this is Jesus, of course
speaking, the thief comes onlyto steal and kill and destroy.
I have come that they may havelife and have it to the full.
When I think of life to thefull, I do not think of lists
and binders and check boxes atall.
(07:41):
And yet that's yeah, that's thedirection I tend to go.
Even recently, I pulled out abinder and said I will use this
for my blah blah blah Binders,but not for blah blah blah.
Anyway, jesus didn't say I havecome, that they may manage
their impulses, reject theircravings or whatever else.
(08:05):
He said I have come and ofcourse that implies he's come to
earth.
He's come to die on the crossand be raised from the grave so
that we could have life to thefull.
That is not just making it orjust managing.
That's not the real thing.
That is not just making it orjust managing.
(08:26):
That's not the real thing.
And I want to do a little Greekgeeking out here for a moment.
The word translated full orabundant in many translations is
the Greek word perissos orperissos, the root meaning.
You might need to know thatsomeday, the root meaning you
(08:51):
might need to know that someday,the root meaning is exceeding
beyond the expected, more thanenough.
That is the kind of life hecame to give us, and so what it
means in this context that Greekword perisos is an intensifier.
It means something superior inquality and excessive in
quantity.
Wow.
Yes, it doesn't just implyplenty in a material sense, but
(09:14):
overflow in every sense,overflow of joy, of peace,
overflow of love, of purpose, ofconnection, flow of love of
purpose, of connection.
Speaker 2 (09:26):
Wow, wow, yeah, wow.
What about running faster?
What about doing more?
What about that long, long list?
What about striving, workingharder?
That's not why Jesus came.
(09:47):
Well, I just love what you justsaid, heidi.
I love that you're bringing upthis amazing question.
It's like why did Jesus comeand what does he long for us?
So let's get deeper into it.
I'm loving this, oh good, good,good.
Speaker 1 (09:57):
Well, when he says he came to give us life to the
full, he's not talking aboutbusy, successful or believe it
or not and I know somebody needsto hear this, maybe even me as
well Pain-free life.
He didn't come to give us thosethings.
He came to give us life to thefull.
(10:17):
And and the thing is, some ofus may have our own little
definitions about what life tothe full would look like, but
he's talking about abundantpresence, his abundant presence,
his vision, his promises, hiseverything that we need in him.
And he's talking about deepsoul satisfaction, eternal
(10:40):
richness.
And it starts now, not once wedie.
Speaker 2 (10:45):
That sounds really, really good.
Maybe somebody is running rightnow while they're listening to
this, or they're in their carand they're rushing, rushing and
racing and striving, andwhatever it is.
I need to hear this.
Maybe somebody out there needsthis too.
I know they do?
Speaker 1 (11:05):
Yeah, definitely.
Well, this kind of abundancethat Jesus has promised to give
us doesn't depend oncircumstances.
The children can still be sick,or somebody can be late to my
appointment or whatever itdoesn't require performance and
(11:25):
it absolutely can't be measuredby the world's standards.
I mean, and that's just it is.
We get swept up in what thisworld says is successful life,
but that is that the abundantlife Jesus came to give us.
No, jesus has come to give usthe abundant life, and it's not
(11:45):
a just enough life.
It's not getting by, it's notmaking it.
It's instead overflowing,surprising, soul-quenching,
deep-rooted shalom life.
Speaker 2 (11:59):
Yes, yes, oh, that sounds so good.
So I mean, life is busy andcrazy for many of us in
different seasons, right?
So this isn't dependent on that.
It's not like, well, next monthis going to be, you know, much
slower for me.
It's not about that, it's aboutsomething deep down inside and
(12:21):
in our relationship with Christ.
I love that yeah me too.
Speaker 1 (12:25):
Okay.
Speaker 2 (12:26):
Let's go to Romans eight, one and two.
Therefore, there is now nocondemnation for those who are
in Christ Jesus.
Speaker 1 (12:35):
Pause for a moment.
Hallelujah, lord.
Speaker 2 (12:37):
Thank you, yes, oh my gosh, this is true for all of
us.
There is no condemnation forthose of us who are in Christ
Jesus, for the law of the spiritof life has set you free, in
Christ Jesus, from the law ofsin, and death.
Good news we have been set free.
(12:58):
I mean, how many of us actuallyfeel free?
It's tricky, right.
It's like what is?
freedom.
So let's dig in a little deeper.
That phrase set you free comesfrom the Greek word elutherou,
which means not just releasedfrom bondage, but released into
(13:19):
something new.
That is so amazing.
I mean, really, this isn't sinmanagement that we're talking
about, it's life with God, lifein the spirit, right?
So maybe the real question iswhat am I living from right now?
(13:41):
From, not, for what am I livingfrom?
Am I living from fear, no, frompressure, or am I living from
the spirit of God?
Big question there.
Speaker 1 (13:54):
Oh, my goodness, I have another true confession,
and this goes way back in timeto the late 1990s and my quest
to be free of baby fat after Ihad my kids I'm sorry I'm
bringing it up, I know had mykids I'm sorry I'm bringing it
(14:15):
up, I know, but anyway I decidedafter and this was before I had
any exposure to thin within atall or what we do today in
revelation within, of course Icommitted to weight watchers.
Yes, you did, you sure did, Idid, and I was really good at it
too, cause it had the boxes andthe check marks and the stars
and the balloons and thecelebration of the meeting.
(14:36):
I loved it.
I clung so tightly to my foodboundaries I was afraid to mess
up and besides that, I wasconvinced that this was my way
to honor God with my eating.
I was very successful from theworld's perspective, but
underneath that was a huge lackof peace, because the fear drove
(15:02):
me.
I was like hugging that scaleand the number that was on it
and I didn't want to let go orever look again because I was
afraid it would change.
I had lost a ton of weight,whatever, but I was managing my
behavior and I would have toldyou I was praying about it and
(15:22):
talking about it to the Lord andto others, but I don't think I
ever really brought my heart toJesus over it.
Instead, that death grip that Ihad on the bathroom scale
caused just such fear in me.
I had an accountability partner, of course, who said you've got
to hand me the scale becauseit's going on right now.
Yeah, and again, if you hadasked me, I would have told you
(15:46):
I was honoring the Lord with myeating and fitness endeavors.
It's interesting to me becauseI know so many people feel that
way, and then we look back laterand we go oh wow.
Speaker 2 (16:00):
That's so true, that's so real.
Yes.
Speaker 1 (16:03):
The Lord convicted me , though, of this, and so
clearly it's like he said to meI'm not asking you to manage
yourself, I'm asking you to walkwith me.
Let go of the death grip, girl.
Keep your eyes on me and followme.
Let me love you as you are andas I love you into who you will
(16:26):
be and who you are becoming andwho you are becoming.
Speaker 2 (16:30):
Oh my gosh, heidi, that is such an amazing story
and it's not.
It's not even that there'ssomething so wrong with what you
were trying to do.
I mean it wasn't.
You thought you were doing theright thing.
You thought this is what I'mcalled to to strive and run
(16:54):
faster and work harder andbecome this amazing quote,
unquote you know which the worldwould say amazing.
So that makes sense.
I mean, I can totally relate tothat, although while you were
getting all the balloons andaccolades, I was like throwing
the brochure back in the trashand giving up again.
Okay, so a story for me that Iwould love to share.
(17:15):
That was just, oh my gosh, soso tough A time when I was
trying to do it myself.
You know, some of you know thatmy mom had Alzheimer's disease
and we had a 10 year journeywith her and my dad and she is
in heaven now with a brand newbrain and doing great.
But there was a time in thestory with my mom and dad where
(17:39):
my mom did not know who I wasanymore and I was crushed.
I was just completely crushedand I had to grieve that she
would see me coming and shewould know that I was special
and important to her in some wayand she would smile and say
hello, like I was visiting avisiting friend.
But I knew that she could not,in her brain, figure out how I
(18:04):
came into her story.
You know, with Alzheimer'sdisease you go backward in
memories, and so she had gonebackward to the point where she
didn't remember having childrenand she was dating my dad, which
was actually really sweet andfun.
But it wasn't fun when shecouldn't figure out who I was.
And so I remember feeling likethis is a problem to fix.
(18:29):
What am I going to do?
I'm going to show her photoalbums, I'm going to bring this,
I'm going to plan this, I'mgoing to figure out a way to
help her remember who I am.
Oh, that sounds so hard, I meantalk about striving, talk about
running fast, running fast.
(18:49):
Talk about working against adisease that was taking my mom's
brain away and I was gettingnowhere fast.
I mean, I would bring things Iwould share stories, talk about.
When I was young I tried sohard.
Yeah, you did and every time Ishowed up again at the
(19:11):
Alzheimer's center, I had tostart over every single time.
You know, like Groundhog Day,that movie, that old movie.
I could not move forward.
I was stuck in the same place,visit after visit, and then I
took it to God, talked with himabout it and I had no idea what
(19:33):
he was going to do.
And he did the most amazingthing, just something so
creative and God-like, somethingthat I would never have figured
out on my own.
Several visits later, even maybea month later, I don't remember
my mom.
In her mind, in her brain, shegave me a role that she could
understand in her life and sheturned me into her best friend
(19:57):
in high school.
And it was a real person, and Ididn't even know if she was
alive.
It was, you know, from herexperience in Germany.
And she gave me a name, and myname was Erica, and she told me
all about who I was, what I didwell, all the fun that they had,
and I became her best friendfor the last two years of her
(20:19):
life, that's so sweet.
It's just amazing, isn't that soamazing?
How God did that?
And at first, yes, I grieved,not really being her daughter
anymore.
I mean, certainly I was.
But you know, I would walk inand the nurse would say oh,
silke, your daughter's here andI would say you know, I'm Erica,
(20:41):
I'm here to visit you.
And I took on the role and itwas wonderful because she was so
sad that she couldn't remember.
If somebody said to her don'tyou remember?
Oh yeah.
Oh it would just tear her up.
It made her feel so sad.
And so to be able to replace myrole with a best friend, that
(21:03):
was almost better, because mymom and I had not really been
friends not really.
I had not really been friends,not really.
We had a tough relationship,and so it was just an amazing
gift.
God said, christina, you don'thave to do this alone, I'm not
worried, I already have a plan.
And he did, and then I was ableto let go and really enjoy
(21:26):
having a best friend and my momfor two years before she passed
years, you could stop driving.
Speaker 1 (21:32):
Oh my gosh, that would make those visits filled
with so much pressure.
Yes, what magic concoction canI come up with between photo
albums and stories and itemsfrom her you know, home or past
or whatever?
Yeah, that would be just reallytough.
Speaker 2 (21:50):
Thank, you for sharing.
I'm so thankful that God tookover and I I let him, yeah.
So one of the things that Heidiand I both love to do to help
us with the letting go, to helpus with resting in him in these,
these moments, is breathprayers.
So we have a breath prayer thatwe'd love to introduce to you
(22:14):
and, of course, breath prayersare so simple.
It's just breathing in and outand adding in truth, from the
word of God, whether it's ascripture or truth, that lines
up with the word, and that's allit is.
It's so simple and beautifuland it calms us down physically
while feeding our souls and ourminds.
(22:35):
Basically, so go ahead andbreathe in with me, let's take a
deep breath and let's saytogether I was made for more.
Breathe out then managing.
(22:56):
So I was made for more thanmanaging.
Let's do it again Breathe in, Iwas made for more.
Breathe out, then managing.
One more time Breathe in, I wasmade for more.
(23:20):
Breathe out Than managing.
And then we have one more foryou.
This one is also very beautiful.
Breathe in and say you offer melife.
Speaker 1 (23:37):
You offer me life.
Speaker 2 (23:39):
Breathe out to the full, to the full, breathe in.
You are from life to the full.
Yay, thank you for doing that.
(24:08):
That was awesome.
Speaker 1 (24:10):
Well, when we're managing perhaps you could see
this by Christina's story or mystory we're often holding really
tight really tight whiteknuckling our way through.
Speaker 2 (24:24):
Yes, but you know, living with Jesus, that is open
hands, it's being interruptible.
It's being interruptible.
I know allowing theinterruptions that are somehow
ordained by God.
Welcoming them, welcoming.
Welcoming them welcominginterruptions, being teachable,
(24:44):
being open, reachable, restingin the truth that he is the
shepherd and we're not.
Speaker 1 (24:53):
That's kind of a relief when you think about it.
Speaker 2 (24:55):
I don't have to, you don't have to figure out your
mom.
Speaker 1 (24:58):
He had it figured out he had it.
Galatians 5.1 says it is forfreedom that Christ has set us
free.
Stand firm, then, and do notlet yourselves be burdened again
by a yoke of slavery.
And really that's the thingmanaging.
On the outside we may feel likeit looks really good and like
(25:20):
I've got this thing figured out,I've got it wired, I've got my
act together, but really, inside, so very often managing can
feel like bondage, like we arechains, and then Jesus, of
course, says let me carry that,let me carry this, bring it to
me.
Speaker 2 (25:37):
Yeah, managing for me .
It brings me to a place ofoverwhelm which sometimes just
stops me completely.
Like I'm paralyzed by it.
Speaker 1 (25:46):
Me too.
Speaker 2 (25:47):
So Psalm 32, eight is a beautiful gentle promise.
A beautiful gentle promise Iwill instruct you and teach you
in the way you should go.
I will counsel you with myloving eye on you.
Oh, my goodness, he's nothanding us a spreadsheet and
(26:07):
saying get it together.
He's saying walk with me, I'vealready got it, I've got you,
I've got everything.
Just walk with me, just walkwith me.
Speaker 1 (26:20):
Maybe somebody is listening to this, saying but
how do I do that?
What does it actually look like?
And you know the way I have tothink of it is.
It's not about a quiet time,it's not about more quiet times.
It's not about opening theBible more.
It's about recognizing thateach moment I can touch the hem
(26:41):
of Jesus's garment, he is there.
I can experience his powerflowing into me.
Like the woman who had theissue of blood, she reached for
him in that moment and he iswith us constantly.
And really I'd say, jesus, whereare you right now?
(27:03):
You're with me, but where arewe going?
What do you want me to do rightnow?
Is this what you're calling meto right now?
And if we don't think we hearanything, you know what?
That's okay.
He takes that load and thatresponsibility and as long as
we're asking the question, jesus, please lead me.
He will do it.
He will do it one way or theother and sometimes, if we don't
think we hear him, it oftenmeans I'm right here with you.
(27:27):
Just keep doing what you'redoing, right?
Speaker 2 (27:30):
Yes, oh, I love that I do too.
Speaker 1 (27:32):
I am so glad you know .
It's funny.
It just popped into my headjust now and I don't know if
I've mentioned in a long time,so I'm going to mention it now
that my great grandfather wrotethe words to he leadeth me,
which is a hymn that has beenknown in the Christian church
for ages.
Speaker 2 (27:50):
It is.
Speaker 1 (27:52):
He leadetheth me.
O blessed thought.
I don't know the rest of theword, but I mean he does.
He is right there.
Anyway, friend, where have youbeen trying to manage your life,
your way to freedom?
Is it with food, eating andweight, like it was for me in
that story I shared, and that'snot the only realm where I do
(28:12):
that.
Maybe it's with shopping less,like having a budget and there's
nothing wrong with having abudget, but we want to walk with
Jesus.
We want to recognize he's God,not the budget.
Is it what you read or watch?
Is there like the struggle topursue things that aren't as
holy as you might want them tobe?
(28:34):
Maybe it's time spent on socialmedia.
I tell you what.
That's where the comparisongame goes.
Speaker 2 (28:40):
Yes, many of us.
Speaker 1 (28:42):
Where are your fists?
Clenched, like I'm going to dothis, I'm going to do it well
and nobody's going to ever beable to find fault with me.
Maybe you don't have that lastpart, but what would it look
like to open your hands today?
You know, clenched.
That's, exhausting, that'sexhausting.
(29:04):
Yes, open hands Freedom.
Speaker 2 (29:09):
And that takes us back to that surrender that we
talked about at the very, verybeginning opening our hands,
surrendering.
So we have a few gentle wayshere that you can respond to
this episode, somethingpractical that you can take with
you.
The first one is just to askthe Lord.
Invite God in and just ask him.
(29:31):
Lord, where am I managinginstead of trusting?
Where is it in my life?
Show me where it is, open myeyes to it.
That's the first one.
The second one is a pause.
Place your hands palm up inyour lap, breathe deeply and
(29:52):
whisper.
I open to you.
I open to you.
Just spend that time instillness with him.
And then the third one is maybe, maybe you want to do some
journaling, or maybe this wouldbe a conversation that you have
(30:12):
with the Lord.
What would life to the fulllook like for me this summer,
coming right up in these nextfew months?
What would life to the fulllook like?
Speaker 1 (30:25):
Good stuff, good stuff.
You know, you and I andChristina, we were never asked
to manage our way to peace.
You know, we were never askedto manage our way to peace.
We were invited by the God ofthe universe to step into
relationship with him, and thatrelationship is what brings real
freedom, real joy, real rest,real peace, real goodness.
(30:47):
We can go on and on, and thatis what we want to offer
ourselves to, and it is a bigact of surrender.
Speaker 2 (30:56):
And it does.
It feels like to me that thewhole world is exhausted right
now.
Does it feel like that to you?
Yes, the whole world, it feelslike.
Speaker 1 (31:04):
So if something in this episode stirred your heart,
if you felt a nudge or alonging for more, we would love
to invite you to join us in ourprivate online community it's a
space where we kind of practiceall of this together, not
perfectly of course, buthonestly, with grace, scripture
and a lot of jesus, and you cantry it for free for a month, if
(31:27):
your heart said yes, even alittle bit.
Speaker 2 (31:30):
Maybe that's the spirit's invitation just come
and be with us for a while.
You can get the details byvisiting wwwrevelationwithinorg.
Speaker 1 (31:41):
Yay, jesus, we are so done with white knuckling our
way through life.
You never asked us to be ourown savior.
Thank you, lord, thank you thatyou did not ask me to do that.
Thank you, lord, for being ourshepherd, for offering us more
(32:01):
than managing abundant life.
We want to say yes to that, yesto life with you, full, free
and real.
Thank you, lord, amen.
Speaker 2 (32:12):
Amen.
So we'll be back soon withepisode two.
The danger of almost aconversation about why the
things we reach for don'tactually satisfy and how Jesus
offers us the real thing.
Speaker 1 (32:28):
Until then, unclench your fists, open your hands and
remember you were made for morethan managing.
Speaker 2 (32:39):
Join us for our next episode of Revelation Within on
the show.
Speaker 1 (32:50):
We'll see you then.
Bye, for now Bye.
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