April 5, 2025 • 59 mins
Duke vs Houston and Florida vs Auburn - this Final Four may be chalk with all top seeds, but our basketball roundtable delivers bold predictions and passionate debates about who's cutting down the nets in San Antonio.
Our panel of coaches, broadcasters and basketball lifers tackle the burning questions: Is Duke's Cooper Flagg truly the greatest freshman in college basketball history? Does Houston's top-ranked defense give them the edge over Duke's offensive firepower? Which coach among the Final Four has the advantage? And who ultimately wins it all?
The conversation takes a fascinating detour when Coach Mike Worrell shares the remarkable story of coaching Jacob Tucker, the 5'10" Division III player who shocked the basketball world by winning the 2011 NCAA Slam Dunk Championship. From viral YouTube sensation to meeting NBA legends and being mobbed for autographs, it's a reminder of how March Madness creates unforgettable moments.
The group also examines how dramatically college basketball has changed in the NIL era. With players and coaches constantly moving between programs, could any modern coach ever reach the legendary status of figures like Wooden, Knight or Coach K? As one panelist puts it bluntly: "There's no loyalty anymore on any level - players, coaches, administrators."
Whether you're filling out your bracket or just love college hoops, this basketball conversation is packed with insights, stories and predictions from those who've lived the game at every level. Tune in to hear who our experts believe will be the last team standing when the confetti falls Monday night.
Basketball experts gather for our annual Final Four roundtable to break down the matchups and predict who will cut down the nets in San Antonio this weeken
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:00):
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Ride Home
Rants podcast.
This is, as always, your host,Mike Bono.
I got a great and seems to beannual show for us here.
We are going to be breakingdown the final four men's
basketball tournament herecoming up this weekend.
I got a lot of great teams init, but I got a great panel of
(00:21):
guests here to help me breakdown the final four.
I'm going to let them introducethemselves.
And guys, it wouldn't be aroundtable if we didn't have
some questions to answer at thebeginning.
So I need your name what sports, if any, did you play in high
school and or college?
And number two, what time doyou normally eat dinner?
(00:41):
And Bob, we're going to startwith you.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Bob Gavaliere and I didn't play any sports.
What was nice, I went toStruthers High School so I got
to broadcast football,basketball games while I was in
high school, and also they kepta spot for me on the baseball
team because I kept a goodscorebook.
So that was my claim to fame.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
There you go, that's important.
Got to keep that book.
There you go, it's important,got to keep that book.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Got to keep the book and I usually about between six
and seven I eat to my dinner.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Six and seven, all right.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And Duncan.
Let's go to you.
Duncan Williams originally fromWest Virginia and played soccer
, basketball and baseball allthrough high school.
Played soccer and basketball incollege, and dinner during
basketball season is anywherefrom 8.30 to 11.30 at night,
(01:37):
outside of basketball season,usually 7 to 9-ish.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Okay, next we've got everybody's favorite manager of
the podcast, fitty hey everybody, you know me, I'm um fitty, um,
I played football and track umin high school.
Actually, growing up I playedstreet hockey and soccer.
So fun fact right there, Idon't know if anybody ever knew
that, but uh, played streethockey and soccer growing up,
(02:04):
football and track in highschool and I did football on
indoor track and outdoor trackin college many, many moons ago.
And I eat dinner on a goodnight If we're both home.
My wife and I will have dinnerprobably between six and seven.
If she's working, she gets home, we have dinner about nine or
(02:24):
nine 30.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Okay, and next up we got coach Barth.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Uh, drew Barth here.
I played basketball footballand baseball in high school and
then, uh, in college, played oneyear of basketball conference
champs won that year.
I played it.
I don't know if it was just methat was on the team.
That's why I don't really know,uh, and then four years of
football, and then golf too.
You know you got to golf in thespring, so a three-sport
athlete, I guess you could saythroughout, and always noon
(02:52):
hoops.
The real ones know what thatmeans.
And then supper.
I call it supper over in theseparts, over here Anywhere, so
like if I'm coaching duringbasketball season it could be
nine o'clock when I'm gettinghome, or regular time would just
be six, 30 and eight betweenthere.
Speaker 6 (03:17):
Okay, next up we've got Steve.
Uh yeah, steve Thompson.
Uh played uh basketball incollege.
Uh, a bevy of sports in highschool.
I am a retired noon Hooper thatused to play with uh coach bars
and coach warrell who you haveon and I typically try to eat
dinner around seven o'clock,unless I'm at a basketball game
or something.
I get a really good hot dog uha little bit earlier than tip
time, so that'd be like 6, 6, 15if I can find a hot dog or
(03:37):
something yeah, all right, andlast but not least, we cut the
goat, mike.
Speaker 7 (03:45):
Yes, mike Worrell here.
Hello everybody.
I went to a small high schoolin northwestern Ohio called
Riverdale High School.
Played football, basketball andbaseball.
Played baseball in college atRio Grande home of Bevo Francis,
which we could have a podcastabout, bevo, if you want to do
(04:06):
that sometime.
But um, and then my time atbethany college.
Even though all conferencebasketball player in high school
and a lot of experience noonhoops at bethany, I was
relegated to the jv team most ofthe time.
Steve thompson and drew barThompson and Drew Barth on this
(04:27):
call, were on the varsity noonhoops at my time at Bethany.
So I'm still trying to get overthat.
In my days of recruiting dinnercould be at 9, 30, 10, 11, fast
food at night.
Those days aren't happeningright now.
So it's I'm like a normalperson now 5, 5, 30 dinner and I
(04:48):
know that's a question thatfitty came up with.
I wish I'd known before.
I could have prepped for thatdinner question, but that's all
I got bottom that was a toughone.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Starting off with a tough one.
Yeah, that was definitely, uh,a fitty-esque question.
Uh, for me, I played footballand swam in high school.
I actually swam at bethanycollege too as well.
Um, didn't do much of anysports I, you know, growing up I
did play like bitty to do a lotof street hockey with, uh, the
(05:19):
guys.
I think I played noon hoopsonce at Bethany and then Coach
McGowan saw me playing and hereally wasn't too happy that I
was putting a lot of pressure onmy knees and joints so had to
shut that down after one timeplaying there.
But yeah, noon hoops, swimmingand football.
But we're going to dive rightinto this here.
(05:41):
Everyone seems to be prettyexcited about this chalk final
four that we got here.
A lot of one and two seeds here.
I don't know if anybody'sbracket got busted on day one,
like mine did, but we're goingto start here.
But, bob, who do you think isthe best team in the final four?
Is it Duke, auburn, florida orHouston?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
That's a tough one.
I like all four of these teams.
I mean I've watched them play.
I think Duke has the bestplayer, I think.
But I think Florida is the mostrounded team.
I think they have a lot ofweapons.
They have guys that can step upwhen someone's off that day.
They have guys that will stepup.
So we'll see if Duke is able todo that.
(06:25):
So I think right now Florida isthe most well-rounded team in
this tournament.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I got you, barth, what about you?
Speaker 5 (06:34):
I would tend to agree with that.
I hate Duke and I hate sayingit, but I think they're the best
team still out there right now.
I do like to see that matchupthough Duke and Houston.
Houston's defense isunbelievable to watch and
obviously Duke likes to put uppoints, so that battle is going
to be interesting to see, but Ido think Duke is the Best team
(06:54):
left still.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, I got you on that one, steve.
What about you?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You're muted.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Steve.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
That's what happens when you try to use your cell
phone for this.
Yeah, I would tend to agreewith Bob on the front end.
I really like Florida.
I like how rounded they are andreally like Clayton.
I think he can finish when heneeds to.
The Duke-Houston game, I think,is going to be the best of the
two, the best of the two, butFinal four games but I think
(07:26):
Houston might shock people justwith the style of play is going
to be really different than whatDuke wants to do and it's going
to be an interesting one forsure.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, absolutely Fitty.
What about you?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
I think it's Houston.
Right, I think it's Houstonbecause they have the number one
defense in the entire countryand it's kind of hard to argue
against a team that has a numberone defense to say they're not
the best team and I just thinkthey're the toughest physical
team.
It's kind of like the oldschool basketball there, mike,
from the 1980s, you know, whenJohn Stockton played so.
(08:02):
But I like Houston.
I think they're the best justbecause they're the physically
the toughest and the strongestdefensively, gotcha duncan.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
What about you?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
yeah, fitty's sounding smarter and smarter, uh
, every time he gets on one ofthese.
I'm not sure how that happened,but he's getting more normal by
the hour.
Um, I think the the best teamand who will win it is two
different.
Probably questions a lot inbasketball, especially because
it's just such a volatile sport.
I agree with the Florida call.
(08:31):
I think Florida has probablythe highest ceiling, but they
also probably have the lowestfloor.
A lot depends on how many threesthey chuck up and make, and
sometimes they look really goodand sometimes I think they look
above average.
They chuck up and make, andsometimes they look really good
and sometimes I think they lookabove average.
I think you've got two no-doubtteams in Auburn and Houston
that play great defense, thatplay with great passion, that
(08:53):
have that exact replica of acoach that I think coached that
into them.
So I think those two areprobably the most consistent.
You've got Duke with the bestplayer or players, but they're
also young.
I'm just going to go weird andsay that now Auburn's winning it
, just because I haven't heardpeople say it.
They're a bit older and I thinkeverything rests on their point
(09:15):
guard chance.
Why not?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Got a left field a little bit, but I expect nothing
less from you.
Duncan Mike, round us out onthis one here.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
I'm looking forward to the semi-pro Final Four this
year down in San Antonio.
I think you can put all fourteams in a hat and pull one out
and have a good chance ofpicking the winner.
I played one bracket just forthe sake of doing it.
(09:46):
I think I had Florida beatingHouston in the finals.
I don't know if I still believethat Three of the four teams
are averaging over 80 points agame.
Auburn has five guys averagingin double figures, almost six.
Florida has almost five guys indouble figures.
(10:07):
A lot of balance in those teams.
And Fiddy, as Bill Walton saidmany times in his broadcast
offense, wins championships.
And Bobby Knight even said youcan't win two to nothing in
basketball.
So I tend to agree with CoachKnight.
You've got't win two to nothingin basketball.
So I I tend to agree with coachKnight.
(10:27):
You got to be able to score anddefend.
I'm not really sure if thatanswered your question, bono,
but that's that's my take on it,mike.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I expect nothing less from your answers.
Bad Like I, I love every singleanswer you give, because I have
no idea what you just said tome on that one, uh.
Speaker 6 (10:48):
So yeah, we just say that he got a in a bevo francis
and a bill walton reference andwithin like five minutes of the
podcast quickly, quickly out thegate.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
We.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Like there was a shock bug.
Speaker 7 (11:07):
Bob Evans is on Rio Grande too.
We could talk about thatsometime, along with Bebo.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Mike, I got to get you back on solo show and we're
just going to let you go.
I'm just going to ask onequestion and I'm just going to
let you go for the entire halfhour to an hour that we're on.
But for me, I struggle withthis one because I like
Houston's defense but I haveDuke in two of my brackets, so I
think Duke ultimately comes upwith the win.
(11:38):
I picked Florida in one of themjust for shits and giggles.
I honestly didn't think Floridawas going to make it this far.
They have, but yeah, I'd haveto go Duke on this one.
It's going to be a really goodmatchup with them in Houston.
I think Houston is going togive them fits in the first half
and then Duke's just going todo what they've done the entire
(11:59):
tournament and just run awaywith it.
But, mike, let's stay with you.
Who do you have in your ownpersonal Final Four picks before
March Madness began?
Did you have any of these teamsin the Final Four before the
tournament even got started?
Speaker 4 (12:19):
You're on mute, Mike.
You're muted, Mike.
Speaker 7 (12:24):
I did play a bracket I.
I had Florida beating Houstonin the championship 74 to 70 um,
but then I had a long shot,texas A&M, who got knocked out
in the second game, and I hadDuke getting upset.
So I you know there's allusually upsets not this year for
(12:44):
the number one seeds but so Idid have florida and houston in
the final then.
I don't know if I still believethat, but that's who I had okay
, uh duncan, what about you?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
well, I didn't play a bracket because that would be
illegal.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
So only if there's money involved.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, um, yeah, someone took my guesses and I
did say Houston and Auburn, butI didn't know if either one of
them were going to win it.
Just because they're two of theolder teams in college
basketball and they were alreadygood and already coaches and
everything matched up for them,so I picked both of them.
But in this tournament younever know who's going to win it
(13:24):
.
I do think that all four arerelatively talent-wise, kind of
even across the board.
So really it comes down tomatchups at that point and kind
of who has a hotter night thanthe other team.
We can make sense of it ahundred different ways, but
really the matchups at thispoint and who makes a couple
more shots.
But it's kind of how the FinalFour goes, which is exciting.
There's not a Hurley in therethat's going to win by 26.
(13:46):
This should be a pretty goodFinal Four.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I definitely think it's going to be a good Final
Four.
But Finney, what about you?
Speaker 4 (13:56):
How do your brackets look in the Final Four?
Yeah, so I didn't pick achampion, but the Final Four, I
was predicting.
I had Michigan State, houston,michigan State, houston.
I had St John's and Wisconsin,if I'm not mistaken, and,
needless to say, three out ofthose four teams disappointed me
(14:18):
.
And you know, tom Izzo, you,you can coach for a long time,
but, man, you cannot win without, without the talent you used to
have.
So, tom, his own Michigan Statedisappointed me, but I did have
Houston.
I had one out of the four.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I had Michigan State, too, as well.
I did have St John's going tothe Elite Eight, though, so
there was that too, but, steve,now that you're not the only one
who's talking on mute, what doyou got on this one?
Speaker 6 (14:43):
Right, yeah, I filled out a bracket in about 30
seconds.
I was real creative and Ipicked all four number ones.
So come last Sunday evening itwas really good to be able to
brag to most of my family that Iwas the only one to hit all
four, Taking a lot of chances toget those top four seeds to the
(15:05):
final four.
But I just think in this dayand age you're not going to see
as many more upsets anymore.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I think you're right on that, and I normally do like
six or seven brackets just forfun.
I always do one serious one andthen I just kind of mess around
and I normally do an all-chalkone and this year I didn't do it
.
I'm really upset with myselfthat I didn't do it, because I
would have done fantastic inthat one if I did an all chalk
one this year, but I didn't doit.
Uh, but barth, what about you?
Speaker 5 (15:32):
was it really legit, though, if you're doing six,
seven brackets?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I mean, let's be honest here I mean, I do one
legit one where I sit down andplan it out, but then I just
have fun.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
But you could say that six, or you could say the
other one of those.
Five, though, are legit.
I wouldn't, though, Okay allright, stay true to your word.
All right, I'm not coming atyou, Bono.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
You are coming at me, Bartholomew.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
All right, but anyway I got two out of the four I had
.
Unfortunately, Rick Pitino letme down, and so did Nate Oates.
Their offense could not sustainanother 100-point game, and
Duke was just too good.
But I ultimately which willprobably say it later but I have
auburn and houston in the final.
Not going to tell you who Ipicked, though, yet yeah, I said
we'll get to that later.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Don't, don't, don't spoil, don't spoil.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
I did get two out of the four.
Half is better than zeroabsolutely bob.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
well, I actually had three out of the four.
I kind of went chalk as well.
The only difference I thoughtTennessee was going to be
Houston, even though Houston hasa great defense like that.
I just thought like the SEC wasa really good league this year
and they were beating each otherup.
Actually, I had Tennesseewinning it too.
I was out with that one.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, I didn't have Tennessee anywhere near sniffing
the final four.
I had three.
I had Houston, florida and Dukein all of my brackets.
I liked Houston's defense.
I didn't know Auburn was goingto do as well as they did.
I thought they were going to beone of the ones that got beat
out by one of the Cinderella'searly in the tournament.
(17:04):
I thought they were going to beone of the ones that got beat
out by one of the Cinderella'searly in the tournament.
But yeah, I mean I was happywith the, with the three out of
the four.
Like I said, I have Dukewinning it all and you know,
(17:28):
speaking of Duke, you knowsports people have that the
Cooper flag is the greatestfreshman basketball player in
basketball history.
I mean, is this an accuratestatement when?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
you compare him to other freshmen that have played
in the past.
Bob, I think I don't know.
I think it's so hard.
I mean, I can remember goingback when Patrick Ewan came on
as a freshman for Georgetown.
You know he was just a greatplayer all around too, and for
Georgetown, I think you know hewas just a great player all
around too.
But I just think this yearmaybe I can't think of any other
guys that have come on.
There's so many, like one ofDon's, that you forget.
(17:55):
Like who Right, you know, whodid it, you know.
And then you got the guys thatjust skipped, went right from
high school.
So I think that this era, maybethis last couple of years, I
think he's the greatest.
But I think there's a lot ofother freshmen that have played
in the past that I think areprobably comparable to him.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
This year I got you, barth, what about you?
Speaker 5 (18:16):
I mean, I'm a lot younger than most of you guys
here, so it's not going off asmuch here.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Always got to get those stabs in about our age.
We're a destroyer.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Every show you're on, Barth, you're always getting
those age digs in His facialhair doesn't look so young, I'm
telling you.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
You're going to mistake him for being a lot
older.
But I mean you can go back toanother Duke player, zion
Williamson same type, I mean,coming in.
I mean Cooper Flaggen is verygood though.
He's fun to watch and he's notone of those Duke players that
you hate.
You know like there's been guysthat come through as Duke
players, just like I can't standwatching them.
Uh, he's not one of those.
(18:56):
I actually enjoy watching himplay and he, he plays the game
the right way.
No, that doesn't really answeryour question, but he, he's fun
to watch.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
All right, steve, what about you?
Speaker 6 (19:06):
I'm going to work in a little Mike Worrell story here
on this opinion.
I'm going to say he's not thebest yet, but could be Back
early in my career.
I had the pleasure to work forCoach Mike Worrell there and he
took me on a trip down to NewOrleans for the Final Four.
And there was a young man onSyracuse's team that ended up
(19:26):
winning the nationalchampionship and was the most
outstanding player.
Carmelo Anthony, as a freshman,led his team to a national
championship.
So you know, same like with theLeBron Jordan talk right Like
everybody has an opinion, but hewon the championship.
Cooper Flagg hasn't won anychampionship yet.
So and Mike was big time onthat, allowing me to kind of
(19:50):
stay out at the casinos tilllate or early in the morning,
really make a little bit ofmoney, get in a little trouble,
and he still took me home andkept me hired.
So I'll take all that fromCoach Worrell.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
It's a great weekend from coach oral.
It's a great weekend.
Speaker 6 (20:08):
We almost got robbed in the hotel halfway down, but
that's a another podcast.
He could tell you I can.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I can say I've heard that story from Steve.
I've heard that story.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I don't have the time to get into that story, but
we'll.
That's another story foranother day.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
But Spitty, what about you?
No, he's not.
He's not even top 10, becauseyou got to look at the history
of basketball and, technically,the guys that couldn't play
their freshman year, who intheory, were freshmen when they
played back, when they onlycould play three years Kareem
Abdul-Jabbar, bill Walton, youcould say Carmelo Anthony,
patrick Ewing you could talkabout, then you could talk about
(20:49):
Derek Rose.
I think Derek Rose, as afreshman, was way above and
beyond better Than Cooper Flagg.
I think he's good, but he'sjust what the cool thing is
right now To say he's one of thegreatest Freshmen of all time
or the greatest freshman of alltime, no, and he wasn't even
better than Kevin Duran at Texaseither.
So I'm going to say all thoseguys were better than Cooper
(21:12):
flag.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Okay, out the gate, hot with that one.
I will say this that's onlyseven players I was counting, so
that would still put him in thetop 10.
Just to kind of poke holes inyour in your answer.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
There, fitty, I can find three more.
I'm sure you can.
I'm sure you could find threemore, duncan.
What about you one?
I retract my first statementthat that fitty's somehow
maturing in all of this.
And fitty is now back.
He is back in full force bysaying he's not even top 10.
If Duke wins the championshipand old Coop dad averages 25
plus, he's easily going to be,if not one, probably top five
(21:54):
freshman phenoms of all time.
Steve the thief stole myCarmelo reference so that one
hurt a little bit.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
He came on the trip with us.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, I was.
I was actually in the casino,he just didn't know I was there.
Yeah, I would say a lot depends, like like anything in sports
depends on if he wins it.
If he does, I give him thethumbs up of easily being a top
five guy, if as long as he playswell, which I think has got a
good chance.
There's been plenty of freshmento average 20, 25, 30 points
and never won it, so it'sprobably why I don't put him in
(22:28):
there, but he's headed that way.
It's definitely a chance,that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Okay, mike, what about you?
Speaker 7 (22:37):
I've been around a lot more than most of you guys.
I've seen more college freshmencome in I agree with what
everybody's saying almost andFlagg is one of the best I've
seen.
He reminds me of a Larry Bird,just maybe as quicker, but
skill-wise and everything youknow.
(22:57):
He can do it all.
He rebounds, can shoot thethree, can drive it pass, it
shoots well at the line.
He does it all.
I never really focused in onhis defense so I can't really
say much about that, but I Iwould put him as one of the best
I've seen in the last severalyears.
And I don't remember much aboutthat new orleans trip in 2003.
(23:23):
But I do know that steve bookedus a room some that was before
the internet maybe booked us aroom in memphis on halfway down
and with a gate, a big fencegate around it wherever we were
at, and somebody tried to breakin our room at 2 or 3 in the
morning but we got unscathed andmade it back home.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Steve trying to make it in the room.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Steve trying to get in.
Glad we got the cliff noteversion of that story for this
show here.
We'll dive into that a littlebit later.
Mike, which game are you mostexcited to watch?
Is it Auburn, florida or DukeHouston?
Speaker 7 (24:07):
You know both of them .
I probably went to 25 straightFinal Fours.
I haven't went in the lastseven or eight years.
Most of the time I would go toSaturday's games.
Every once in a while I'd stayfor Monday, but you know the
Saturday games are like.
It's just what an atmosphere onthat Saturday.
(24:27):
It's got to be behind the SuperBowl, it's got to be maybe the
next event Exciting, and it's along, long day slash night.
We watched those two semifinalgames on Saturday.
We were in the arena for likeseven hours for those games and
(24:48):
just sort of throw a pet peeveout there about.
You know it's excruciating tobeat those games with all those
media timeouts.
By the way, it's not so bad athome.
You can get up, go to thebathroom, go get something to
drink.
When you're there with allthose media timeouts it's a long
night.
But both games I thinkpotentially, you know, in a
(25:11):
one-and-done situation where youhave a bad shooting night or
you could be out quickly but I'mlooking forward to both games.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Okay, duncan, what about you?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, now that everybody's talked about Cooper
Flagg, but I'm looking forwardto both games.
Okay, duncan, what about you?
Well, now that everybody'stalked about Cooper flag, I'm
kind of interested to see how heresponds kind of against such a
tough, gritty team.
I I guess this is going back tothe question before I think
Cooper's got a level to him, toa top, I would say a toughness
that takes him over the hill andprobably makes this a game or
(25:45):
maybe even gets them a win inthis.
So I'm probably a little bitmore excited to see that one.
Just from that aspect, you gota 17, 18 year old, which I'm
pretty sure Cooper at this pointis like the average age of a
high school senior, because Ithink he kind of four went his
like last year anyway, um, soprobably a little bit more
excited to see that.
But I love the sport in generalso I'll watch most all right
(26:08):
bitty.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
What about you?
Speaker 4 (26:10):
I'm kind of going off what duncan said.
I want to say it's duke inhouston, because in theory you
have the unstoppable forceversus the immovable object.
You have probably the you knowpeople say the greatest freshman
of all time versus probably oneof the best defensive teams of
all time in Houston.
So you have this unstoppableforce meeting this immovable
object.
So we'll see what happens inthat.
(26:32):
But I think that's the game I'mmore excited about.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Okay, Steve.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
As a former great defender in my day.
But since this change, as I'vegotten older, I don't look
forward to watching defensivegrind out battles.
So really looking forward towatch Florida Auburn Cause.
I think there'll be some pointsthere.
I think they'll get up and downa little bit and hopefully make
some shots.
So I I'm looking forward tothat.
I love watching Clayton play.
(26:59):
Uh, I just think he makes somehard shots look really easy and
that's exciting for me.
So I think I like that matchupbetter, just for the potential
of greater offense.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I got you, barth, what about you?
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Yeah, I'd have to go with Steve.
You know being a great defender, I was back in the day.
You know I did lead my highschool in charges.
At one point I got passed.
But it is true, believe it ornot.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
I do believe it, because you probably only had
one person keeping stats.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
Okay, here we go First guy If you're taking
charges in noon hoops, so thatyou know you're in play.
I did do that I do that too.
Speaker 6 (27:43):
I don't think that's a real penalty in noon hoops.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Anyway, did any penalties get called in noon
hoops If we're going to behonest.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
Not really no, but anyways, I like points.
I guess with Bama I was hopingthey, because they don't play
any defense at all.
It's kind of like when weplayed Greenville in college the
score was 150 to 140.
I mean, it's just unreal whatthey do.
They do their Grinnell system.
So I think I'm going to leantowards more watching the
Florida-Auburn game thanDuke-Houston.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Okay, bob, what about you?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I think Duke-Houston.
Like I said, just whatever hesaid about the defense of
Houston will they be able toshut down Cooper Flagg, how
they're going to defend him, andstuff like that.
I think that game does have thepotential to be the blowout,
though I think if they can'tcontain Flagg, I think it's
going to be a long night becauseI don't think Houston's offense
is going to be able to keep upwith Duke.
So if the defense doesn't workout, then it's going to be a
(28:39):
long night for them.
But I just want to see how theydo that, how they contain him.
No one has done it yet intournaments, so I think that
they're going to work on that.
So that's the game I'm going tolike to watch the most.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I gotcha.
Yeah, I'm most looking forwardto Duke, houston.
I just want to see how thatgame's going to play out.
So, bob, we'll stay with you onthat one, uh.
So which remaining team has thecoaching advantage?
Is that bruce pearl, uh forauburn?
Uh calvin sampson for houston,uh todd golden from florida or
(29:14):
john shire from duke?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
that's a hard.
That's a hard one because wehad a lot, a lot of young
coaches, except for bruce pearl,uh, who's been around for a
while.
Um, I think shires did a goodjob with duke, I mean with the
kids and stuff you um thetradition and the pressure.
So I think probably shire atduke, I think, uh, with him,
just with all the pressure thathe has.
(29:39):
Uh, you know, replacing coach k.
So I think it has to be himokay, steve, what about you?
Speaker 6 (29:46):
uh, yeah, I uh, you know bruce pearl obviously has
has been around a bit longer.
Uh, I always like to thank himfor what he did for ohio state
basketball, having like anillegal cookout when he was at
tennessee.
So aaron craft came to, came toColumbus.
Mike Worrell was like a noonhooper of like Aaron Kraft.
They're very similar talent.
Couldn't make a long jumper butdeadly up inside and could
(30:10):
really defend.
But really I don't know howmuch it is really about coaching
anymore At that level.
Those guys are just so freakinggood.
Right, it's the side out ofbound.
That's critical and you knowwho can create those right plays
.
You know in key situations andthat's.
I think Florida did a good jobin a couple of their close games
(30:32):
.
Shire's done a good job, kelmanSamson's been around right,
like so I don't know it's whomakes more shots, but yeah, I
don't think it's who makes moreshots.
Uh, but yeah, I don't think acoach is going to win or lose
this one.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Okay, pretty.
What about you?
Speaker 4 (30:48):
I got to go with Kelvin Samson because he went
into exile from the uh, thecollege basketball realm and he
coached in the NBA.
You learn from a lot of guys atcoaching at the highest level
and I think he brought thatmentality then back back um to
them with that defensivefierceness not that he wasn't a
good defensive coach before,like at oklahoma in those places
but I gotta go, kelvin samson,just because it is experience
(31:11):
coaching in the nba with moreschematics and against more
talented players, right like incollege basketball, and
everyone's been around longenough and has coached it.
I mean it really comes down toyour players.
Maybe not so much coaching whenthe NBA, you know everyone's
almost equal talent-wise, youknow, and then you have your
upper echelon guys and you'vegot to really prepare for that.
But I just think it's CalvinSampson just because of his
(31:33):
experience having to coachagainst guys like LeBron and
Kobe and all those guys thatwere playing at that time.
So he really has learned, Ithink, a lot of good schematics.
So that's why my nod is withhim.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Okay, mike, what about you?
Speaker 7 (31:48):
I'm going to give my traditional answer Bono and
Kenny.
Every podcast we've talked.
Talk about the coaching aspectand you have the better players
you have, the better chance youhave at winning.
All four of these teams haveare loaded with players.
Talk about cooper flag.
(32:09):
He got hurt a few weeks ago.
Duke won without him.
They got some other guys.
They're loaded without flag.
Add him there.
They're super loaded.
Um.
So whoever wins it this year,the next podcast will be that
guy's the best coach in americaright now, at least for six
(32:29):
months.
Then next year it'll switch.
You remember when everybodyhung this hurley guy?
Everybody hung on every word hesaid the last year and a half
on Twitter.
He'll be forgotten here in afew months.
The new winner of this yearwill be the new flavor until the
next season, until next year.
(32:50):
I don't know if I reallyanswered your question, but I
gave my traditional answer.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
You did give your traditional answer.
I swear one day I'm going tohave a show where I'm going to
force you to make just a just apick on something like that.
It's just going to be a wholeshow of me just holding you to
the question, mike.
But I love your answers everytime and for the new listeners
out there, you can tell how longmike whirl uh was a coach with
(33:16):
his answers.
Those are the most like pressconference pr answers I've ever
heard come out of a human beingand it's from Mike Worrell and I
love it every time.
Mike, it's not a bash.
I love the answers every time.
Speaker 7 (33:30):
Marty Schottenheimer is still my guy by the way.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, barth, what about you?
Speaker 5 (33:40):
You got a pick for us with the coaching uh, I mean
everybody's really hit on thespot there with all these teams
are loaded with talent.
I mean it's gonna come down toit's at the end and, like Mike
said there, everybody's forgotabout this Hurley guy.
Is it Bobby Hurley or DanHurley?
I forgot um.
Speaker 6 (33:56):
Dan.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
I mean Dan F, that was a joke.
Come on, fitty, at least youfell for it, at least someone
did.
But I mean, I don't know, youcould draw a name out of a hat
and you're like all right, he'sthe best coach.
I think with these four, justwhat it is right now.
I mean, if I had to pick one,though, for you to just answer
your question, I'll just go withBruce Pearl.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Okay, duncan, round us out.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Bruce Pearl.
He was a national D2 coach ofthe year a time or two decades
ago.
He has made his way up.
He's recruited under the rocksand coached in the little gyms
and he's winning one for uslittle guys.
I don't know if that's right,but I'm giving one to Bruce
Pearl.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
All right, I can appreciate it, especially from
where he came from.
But this next one this one isfor Mike Whirl only.
And Mike, you had the nationalslam dunk champion from when you
were a head coach.
Can you talk to us about thewhole experience at the Final
(34:58):
Four and some of the people thatyou met and seen there?
Speaker 7 (35:08):
yeah, that was 2011 when all that happened.
And, uh, we had a decent teamthat year.
We were second the conferenceand got beaten the championship
of the conference tournament.
But, um, like the last twoweeks of the season, we cut down
practices.
It was winding down and theguys would stick out, stay out
(35:34):
on the court.
I'd go change, come out andthey were like filming Jacob
Tucker doing different dunks andstuff.
I had no idea what they weredoing.
I didn't care, as long as theydidn't get hurt, I'd go
recruiting or go home.
Well, the Monday after we gotbeat, I was in the office and
jacob tucker called me in theoffice and said there's a video
(35:57):
on youtube that you should lookat and it was that video
compilation of all his dunksthose guys have been working on
for two, three weeks, and thatthat video went viral.
Make a long story short that'show he got invited to the slam
dunk contest, because divisionthree guys didn't get invited to
(36:18):
those things.
And, uh, you know, then it wasin houston.
That year he went down tuesdayor Wednesday.
They had a practice onWednesday.
I went down.
Thursday.
I went to my son's Bono, whoyou did a podcast with a few
weeks ago.
Yeah, he was playing highschool baseball.
(36:39):
Then I went to his gameWednesday.
Then I flew down to HoustonThursday.
Well, we get to the Houstonarena and it was a dump.
This was before they renovatedit.
But when you walk in you seebanners up in the arena Elvin
Hayes, clyde Drexler Then you'relike, wow, these guys all
played in this arena.
(36:59):
They fixed it up since then,the last six, eight years.
So we get there.
I got nervous at my son's highschool baseball game Wednesday
because I saw Jacob in the gympracticing new dunks and I got
worried that, you know, maybethis is not going to work out
for us or for him.
So I called him in Houston atmy son's baseball game.
(37:22):
I said tuck.
We called him tuck.
I said are you sure?
Are you these dunks?
You're trying these hard dun.
Are you sure?
Are you these dunks?
You're trying these hard dunks.
Are you, are you ready?
Are you sure you want to dothese?
He goes, don't worry about it.
It was, we'll be okay, allright.
So we get to the arena Thursdayin Houston, university of
(37:44):
Houston and Brad Underwood nowthe Illinois coach was then
assistant coach for Frank Martin.
I can't remember where, kansasState maybe.
But I knew Brad Underwoodbecause he used to be at Western
Illinois and they had a shooter.
Kansas State had a shooter in athree-point contest, jacob
(38:07):
Poland.
So I'm talking with FrankMartin and Brad Underwood and
they said, hey, your guys in theslam dunk contest.
I said yeah, because we'vetalked.
We've talked to Jacob today,our guy.
They had a practice threepointers and the dunkers the
night before and they said thethings Tucker was doing, the
(38:29):
dunks, he goes.
Those guys are scared to deathof Tucker.
They're in the slam dunkcontest.
I said what?
He goes, they're scared todeath of him.
To make a long story short, ofcourse Tucker won it.
Carl Malone, he was one of thejudges.
I can't remember the otherjudges.
I remember the announcers.
Brad Nessler, dan Dockich andJimmy Dykes were the three
(38:54):
announcers there that night.
So he won it.
I didn't know how big of a dealit was until the next day and
they kept Jacob Tucker an extranight.
They flew everybody back homethe next day.
They kept him to be a judge atthe National High School dunk
contest, which was the nextnight, friday night.
(39:16):
So I met, I said Tuck, come downto the Hyatt.
I was at the headquarters whereall the coaches were at, and
he's going to meet me.
We're going to spend the daytogether.
Blah, blah, blah.
I'm in the lobby of the hoteland and Tucker was 5'10 1⁄2",
(39:36):
maybe 5'11".
So I'm watching a TV in thelobby at the Hyatt Everybody's
wearing their coach's shirt.
There's a guy from St John's,one from Syracuse assistant
coaches.
They're watching.
I'm standing there watching theslam dunk contest with them.
There's about 20 peoplewatching it and they're like
(39:59):
bitching.
That guy's not funny.
There's like he's at least 6'3".
He's at least 6'2" and I'mstanding right there.
I'm hoping Tucker would come upand I'm going to tell these
guys hey, this is the guy righthere, but they left and whatever
.
And then Jeff Bowles, the coachat Ohio University, who I've
known a long time.
He's outside with me.
(40:22):
On Tucker, we meet out there.
Jeff goes hey your guy won thedunk contest.
We talked for like two minutesand finally I said Coach Bowles.
I said this is him right here.
He didn't believe it because hewas only like five, ten and a
half and we tried to go to lunch.
There's a big food court acrossour hotel in Houston and
(40:45):
there's TVs everywhere andTucker's getting mobbed.
He can't even eat his lunchdown there.
You know people want pictures,autographs, houston Rockets
staffed there, a bunch of youngkids, interns, I think they
played that night.
They said, hey, we want youguys to come to our game tonight
.
I can't remember who they wereplaying, but we couldn't go.
(41:06):
I had an engagement and Tuckerhad to judge the slam dunk
contest, so we couldn't go andgave our tickets to somebody
else.
But anyway, it was a big deal.
I met a lot of people.
It was crazy for a couple ofmonths.
Of course, he went on to playat the Harlem Globetrotters for
a year after that and then gavethat up.
(41:29):
So Jacob Tucker made me famous,at least for a few months.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Well, if anyone doesn't know, Mike is the only
coach in NCAA history,regardless of classification, to
coach over 400 games, have thenational slam dunk champion and
coach a Division III team tobeat a Division I team.
Mike has that over Coach K,bobby Knight, danny Hurley,
(41:56):
everyone.
Mike is the only coach in NCAAhistory to accomplish that.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
It was Phitty at the end with the stats.
I love it.
Speaker 7 (42:05):
Just to make it clear , I've lost a lot of games too.
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
I've been coached, coached over 400 games.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
He didn't say won over 400 games, Mike.
He said coached over 400 games.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
That's the darkest living room in the country.
Speaker 7 (42:22):
I'm sorry for listening and, fetty, unlike
those other guys, I'm basicallybroke and those guys are
multimillionaires Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Oh well, with that being said and we kind of
touched on this with the lastquestion for everybody.
But, duncan, let's go with youand start with you on this one.
During the last two titlechampionships, a lot of people
said Danny Hurley from Yukon wasone of the greatest coaches of
all time.
(42:56):
It was mentioned in the samebreath as coach K John Wooden
and the great Bobby Knight.
Will any of the coaches intoday's era ever be as great as
any of those three guys?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
ever be as great as any of those three guys um, in
the same breath, I think.
I think I think the older twoprobably.
You got you got to win a nattyto be in the same conversation.
If either of them do, I wouldsay they deserve to probably be
in the same breath, the sameconversation.
Are they equal?
Probably not until you win two,but at the same time I would if
(43:33):
something about florida's coachtells me that it'll be in the
nba at some point.
I don't know why, like he'llleave college before he has a
rep of being the elite collegecoach and just doesn't make it
long enough to be the elitecollege coach.
He like does well enough andhe's the coach of the Orlando
Magic and doesn't come back tocollege.
He did for some reason.
So I don't know if he'll godown as, like one of the great
(43:55):
college guys.
Typically Duke coaches, youknow, stay forever.
So I could, I could see himrunning that uh profession and
that job out long enough toprobably be considered that.
So if I had to bet money, Iwould probably say Shire.
If I had to say, right now, Ithink Houston and Auburn's
(44:17):
probably got a really goodchance, I just, you know older
guys stuck it out through theNIL deals Today.
I think they deserve probablyto be in the conversation the
most.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (44:30):
Barth, what about you ?
I mean it's difficult to putthose up there with those guys.
I mean there's somewhere sleeveand leaving out that could be
put in the realm, up with thoseguys above, where these guys are
at.
So I mean some of them have along way to go in their career.
Obviously we got two young guys, two old guys.
The two older guys they don'tgot maybe as much time left to
prove themselves, so what arethey gonna do with that?
(44:51):
But the younger guys, anythingcan happen.
They could be fired next week.
You know what I mean.
Like obviously not gonna happen, but situations happen and
everything.
So I mean I would say shortanswer right now.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Uh, no okay, biddy, what about you?
Speaker 4 (45:07):
no, I don't think so, because the thing is like what
john wooden did is is probablythe most incredible run in
sports history, um to have someof the greatest players ever to
recruit them and stay duringthat time.
Granted was a different era.
Um, coach k maybe shire, maybeif he wins a couple national
championships and coach 40 years.
But I don't think anybody willbe in the realm of bobby knight.
(45:29):
And the reason is bobby knightand for the older guys on the
show that know this, bobbyKnight coached NBA players, but
outside of Isaiah Thomas, bobbyKnight never coached outstanding
NBA players.
He coached a bunch of guyswho've moved on and went into
careers or coaches, you know,like Mike Woodson and guys like
that.
John or Bobby Knight did morewith less and he also graduated
(45:54):
all of his guys and they stayedfor four years and they retained
and he was the last coach inNCAA history to coach an
undefeated team in 1976.
So I don't think anyone willever be like those guys and I
don't think they'll ever besomeone like Bobby Knight again.
And Danny Hurley couldn't carryBobby Knight's whistle.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
See, like Bob Knight.
I think Fiddy likes Bob Knight.
I'm going to go out on a limbhere.
But Mike, what about you withthis question?
Speaker 7 (46:29):
It's hard for me to answer this.
Bono, as Fiddy and I talk aboutoften.
There's no loyalty anymore Onany level players, coaches,
administrators.
I just don't see.
I see more coaches hoppingaround and not staying at places
like they used to, you know,like Wood and Coach K not
(46:56):
staying in the same school forthat long.
It's not even happening at theDivision III and Division II
level anymore.
It's just people are hoppingaround more and especially since
you know the tournament's asemi-pro tournament I call it
now this NCAA Division Isemi-pro basketball and football
it's getting harder for me towatch, believe me, with players
(47:23):
and coaches moving around.
I know there's always a questionwho might get back to the final
four next year?
Yeah, half those guys in thesefinal four in their rotation
might not be on these same fourteams next year.
So so I don't know coaches Iguess you'll be.
(47:45):
They'll be judged by the mediaand everybody if they win win
the national championship hereand if they go to another school
and win it.
Calipari is legendary now fortaking four different teams to
the final eight or 16.
You'll probably see more ofthat.
That statistic will startcoming up more often.
So-and-so has taken three teamsto the Elite Eight or four
(48:08):
teams to the Sweet 16.
Again, I probably didn't answeryour question, but I had to get
that off my chest about the newsemi-pro tournament bono.
Speaker 4 (48:18):
I gotta jump back in and say this too, though.
And the thing is, before bobbyknight died if everybody
remembers his back before covethit bobby knight didn't coach
for 20 years at indiana.
Bobby knight got a standingovation and all of his players
came back, and those peoplerocked out that gym, for the
Hoosiers like Bobby Knight neverleft.
Danny Hurley will never havethat.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (48:41):
No he does not like Danny Hurley.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
But Steve, what about you for this question?
Speaker 6 (48:48):
It's just everything Fitty said is a lot to unpack.
Yeah, I don't think anybody inthe final four is worried about
retaining guys for four yearsanymore.
John Shire doesn't care ifCooper Flagg stays at Duke.
He knows that's not going tohappen.
So Fitty to say Bob Knight waspart of the reason he was a
(49:12):
great coach because his playersstayed.
It's a totally different worldnow and I am a Bob Knight guy
from the area he grew up in, soI think he is one of the best.
But it's going to be hard tojudge coaches today because of
the landscape that collegeathletics.
They're not going to stickaround.
You look at Jay right, he hadenough of the NIL world and was
(49:37):
like I'm, I'm retiring, I'mgoing to go call games on
whatever channel he's on.
Now, except for like a JohnShire, I don't see any of those
guys sticking around.
Like a Bruce Pearl's alwaysgoing to have other stuff
hanging around him.
I think even if he does win onechampionship, there's still
going to be enough negative uhpeople will talk about same with
(49:59):
uh kelvin samson.
So they won't be listed at thatlevel, I think, uh.
And then the florida guy.
I agree, I don't.
I don't think he's going tostick around long.
I I just don't think you'regoing to have the same.
It's a different game now tosteal Mike's semi-pro basketball
tournament.
All these teams are going tolook different next year.
(50:22):
Nate Oates is going to have atotally different team in
Alabama than he did this yearand it's just going to become
that now.
And who's going to have moremoney to pay those guys?
Who's got more NIL money?
That's is going to be who's thebest coaches.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
I got you Bob.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah, I agree with whatever he's saying.
I think the landscape's a lotdifferent than back, you know,
at night, coached and wouldn'tcoach.
I think the problem, like Isaid, these guys don't stay the
two, even three years anymore.
I mean, they stay one year andyou're almost reloading your
team so I can't see any coach.
And I agree, the coaches don'tstick around as much.
(51:03):
You're trying to go to the proor you're going to move up to a
better place where they havemore NIL money, and that's what
I think the coaches are going tobe looking for now is where the
money, where's the money at,where it's going, and I think
that's where coaches are goingto move around to.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
I got you yeah, coaches don't stick around and
players don't stick around, it's.
It's completely different fromwhen those guys coached.
Answer this question for me,quick answers no, basically, for
what everybody else said,saying it's just I don't.
I don't think anybody will comeclose to those guys.
(51:38):
Um, especially today's era ofbasketball.
Uh, but we're gonna wind theshow down here with this
question here and bob, let'sstart with you.
Who wins both games and who'sthe national championship after
this weekend?
Speaker 2 (51:55):
um, I like, and these two, I think I like Florida and
Duke, and then I like Florida.
Win it all this one.
Okay, steve, what about?
Speaker 6 (52:04):
you, I would second what Bob said Florida, duke,
florida wins it all okay, bettyBiddy.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
I'm going to go, the two old guys, auburn and Bruce
Pearl, and I'm going to go withKelvin Sampson and Houston, and
I'm going to go with theimmovable object of Houston
winning the championship.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Okay, mike, what about you?
Speaker 7 (52:25):
I don't agree with what I'm saying, but my original
bracket I had Florida andHouston getting there and
Florida winning 74-70, so I gotto stick with that.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Okay, barth.
Speaker 5 (52:38):
Like Mike said, I got to stick with what I had in my
bracket Auburn over Houston andI think I had Auburn winning by
nine.
So I'm going with Auburn.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
I got you Duncan.
Speaker 3 (52:49):
It's gross, but Fitty's starting to make sense
again.
It's time to go, you didn'teven answer the question.
Houston, because they got closea couple times and that's about
time they win one.
There you go, okay.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
I'm going to go Duke and Florida and I got Duke
winning it over Florida.
I picked those two because Idid two brackets and I have
Florida winning in one and Dukewinning in the other.
So I'm going Florida and Duke,but I still ultimately think
Duke takes it and Duke becomesthe national champions this year
(53:30):
.
But that is going to do it forthis week's episode of the ride
home rants podcast.
I want to thank everybody forcoming on Mike, duncan, fitty,
barth, steve and Bob.
This was a lot of fun gettingto talk all things for the final
four and break down what wethink is going to happen in this
year's final four for the men'sncaa bracket.
(53:53):
As always, if you enjoyed theshow, be a friend, tell a friend
.
If you didn't, tell themanyways, because they might like
it just because you didn't,that's gonna do it for me and I
will see y'all next week.
Welcome everybody to another episode of the Ride Home
Rants podcast.
This is, as always, your host,Mike Bono.
I got a great and seems to beannual show for us here.
We are going to be breakingdown the final four men's
basketball tournament herecoming up this weekend.
I got a lot of great teams init, but I got a great panel of
(00:21):
guests here to help me breakdown the final four.
I'm going to let them introducethemselves.
And guys, it wouldn't be aroundtable if we didn't have
some questions to answer at thebeginning.
So I need your name what sports, if any, did you play in high
school and or college?
And number two, what time doyou normally eat dinner?
(00:41):
And Bob, we're going to startwith you.
Speaker 2 (00:45):
Bob Gavaliere and I didn't play any sports.
What was nice, I went toStruthers High School so I got
to broadcast football,basketball games while I was in
high school, and also they kepta spot for me on the baseball
team because I kept a goodscorebook.
So that was my claim to fame.
Speaker 1 (01:00):
There you go, that's important.
Got to keep that book.
There you go, it's important,got to keep that book.
Speaker 2 (01:06):
Got to keep the book and I usually about between six
and seven I eat to my dinner.
Speaker 1 (01:10):
Six and seven, all right.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
And Duncan.
Let's go to you.
Duncan Williams originally fromWest Virginia and played soccer
, basketball and baseball allthrough high school.
Played soccer and basketball incollege, and dinner during
basketball season is anywherefrom 8.30 to 11.30 at night,
(01:37):
outside of basketball season,usually 7 to 9-ish.
Speaker 4 (01:43):
Okay, next we've got everybody's favorite manager of
the podcast, fitty hey everybody, you know me, I'm um fitty, um,
I played football and track umin high school.
Actually, growing up I playedstreet hockey and soccer.
So fun fact right there, Idon't know if anybody ever knew
that, but uh, played streethockey and soccer growing up,
(02:04):
football and track in highschool and I did football on
indoor track and outdoor trackin college many, many moons ago.
And I eat dinner on a goodnight If we're both home.
My wife and I will have dinnerprobably between six and seven.
If she's working, she gets home, we have dinner about nine or
(02:24):
nine 30.
Speaker 1 (02:26):
Okay, and next up we got coach Barth.
Speaker 5 (02:31):
Uh, drew Barth here.
I played basketball footballand baseball in high school and
then, uh, in college, played oneyear of basketball conference
champs won that year.
I played it.
I don't know if it was just methat was on the team.
That's why I don't really know,uh, and then four years of
football, and then golf too.
You know you got to golf in thespring, so a three-sport
athlete, I guess you could saythroughout, and always noon
(02:52):
hoops.
The real ones know what thatmeans.
And then supper.
I call it supper over in theseparts, over here Anywhere, so
like if I'm coaching duringbasketball season it could be
nine o'clock when I'm gettinghome, or regular time would just
be six, 30 and eight betweenthere.
Speaker 6 (03:17):
Okay, next up we've got Steve.
Uh yeah, steve Thompson.
Uh played uh basketball incollege.
Uh, a bevy of sports in highschool.
I am a retired noon Hooper thatused to play with uh coach bars
and coach warrell who you haveon and I typically try to eat
dinner around seven o'clock,unless I'm at a basketball game
or something.
I get a really good hot dog uha little bit earlier than tip
time, so that'd be like 6, 6, 15if I can find a hot dog or
(03:37):
something yeah, all right, andlast but not least, we cut the
goat, mike.
Speaker 7 (03:45):
Yes, mike Worrell here.
Hello everybody.
I went to a small high schoolin northwestern Ohio called
Riverdale High School.
Played football, basketball andbaseball.
Played baseball in college atRio Grande home of Bevo Francis,
which we could have a podcastabout, bevo, if you want to do
(04:06):
that sometime.
But um, and then my time atbethany college.
Even though all conferencebasketball player in high school
and a lot of experience noonhoops at bethany, I was
relegated to the jv team most ofthe time.
Steve thompson and drew barThompson and Drew Barth on this
(04:27):
call, were on the varsity noonhoops at my time at Bethany.
So I'm still trying to get overthat.
In my days of recruiting dinnercould be at 9, 30, 10, 11, fast
food at night.
Those days aren't happeningright now.
So it's I'm like a normalperson now 5, 5, 30 dinner and I
(04:48):
know that's a question thatfitty came up with.
I wish I'd known before.
I could have prepped for thatdinner question, but that's all
I got bottom that was a toughone.
Speaker 1 (04:59):
Starting off with a tough one.
Yeah, that was definitely, uh,a fitty-esque question.
Uh, for me, I played footballand swam in high school.
I actually swam at bethanycollege too as well.
Um, didn't do much of anysports I, you know, growing up I
did play like bitty to do a lotof street hockey with, uh, the
(05:19):
guys.
I think I played noon hoopsonce at Bethany and then Coach
McGowan saw me playing and hereally wasn't too happy that I
was putting a lot of pressure onmy knees and joints so had to
shut that down after one timeplaying there.
But yeah, noon hoops, swimmingand football.
But we're going to dive rightinto this here.
(05:41):
Everyone seems to be prettyexcited about this chalk final
four that we got here.
A lot of one and two seeds here.
I don't know if anybody'sbracket got busted on day one,
like mine did, but we're goingto start here.
But, bob, who do you think isthe best team in the final four?
Is it Duke, auburn, florida orHouston?
Speaker 2 (06:05):
That's a tough one.
I like all four of these teams.
I mean I've watched them play.
I think Duke has the bestplayer, I think.
But I think Florida is the mostrounded team.
I think they have a lot ofweapons.
They have guys that can step upwhen someone's off that day.
They have guys that will stepup.
So we'll see if Duke is able todo that.
(06:25):
So I think right now Florida isthe most well-rounded team in
this tournament.
Speaker 1 (06:29):
I got you, barth, what about you?
Speaker 5 (06:34):
I would tend to agree with that.
I hate Duke and I hate sayingit, but I think they're the best
team still out there right now.
I do like to see that matchupthough Duke and Houston.
Houston's defense isunbelievable to watch and
obviously Duke likes to put uppoints, so that battle is going
to be interesting to see, but Ido think Duke is the Best team
(06:54):
left still.
Speaker 1 (06:55):
Yeah, I got you on that one, steve.
What about you?
Speaker 3 (07:00):
You're muted.
Speaker 1 (07:01):
Steve.
Speaker 6 (07:03):
That's what happens when you try to use your cell
phone for this.
Yeah, I would tend to agreewith Bob on the front end.
I really like Florida.
I like how rounded they are andreally like Clayton.
I think he can finish when heneeds to.
The Duke-Houston game, I think,is going to be the best of the
two, the best of the two, butFinal four games but I think
(07:26):
Houston might shock people justwith the style of play is going
to be really different than whatDuke wants to do and it's going
to be an interesting one forsure.
Speaker 1 (07:35):
Yeah, absolutely Fitty.
What about you?
Speaker 4 (07:41):
I think it's Houston.
Right, I think it's Houstonbecause they have the number one
defense in the entire countryand it's kind of hard to argue
against a team that has a numberone defense to say they're not
the best team and I just thinkthey're the toughest physical
team.
It's kind of like the oldschool basketball there, mike,
from the 1980s, you know, whenJohn Stockton played so.
(08:02):
But I like Houston.
I think they're the best justbecause they're the physically
the toughest and the strongestdefensively, gotcha duncan.
Speaker 1 (08:09):
What about you?
Speaker 3 (08:11):
yeah, fitty's sounding smarter and smarter, uh
, every time he gets on one ofthese.
I'm not sure how that happened,but he's getting more normal by
the hour.
Um, I think the the best teamand who will win it is two
different.
Probably questions a lot inbasketball, especially because
it's just such a volatile sport.
I agree with the Florida call.
(08:31):
I think Florida has probablythe highest ceiling, but they
also probably have the lowestfloor.
A lot depends on how many threesthey chuck up and make, and
sometimes they look really goodand sometimes I think they look
above average.
They chuck up and make, andsometimes they look really good
and sometimes I think they lookabove average.
I think you've got two no-doubtteams in Auburn and Houston
that play great defense, thatplay with great passion, that
(08:53):
have that exact replica of acoach that I think coached that
into them.
So I think those two areprobably the most consistent.
You've got Duke with the bestplayer or players, but they're
also young.
I'm just going to go weird andsay that now Auburn's winning it
, just because I haven't heardpeople say it.
They're a bit older and I thinkeverything rests on their point
(09:15):
guard chance.
Why not?
Speaker 1 (09:18):
Got a left field a little bit, but I expect nothing
less from you.
Duncan Mike, round us out onthis one here.
Speaker 7 (09:26):
I'm looking forward to the semi-pro Final Four this
year down in San Antonio.
I think you can put all fourteams in a hat and pull one out
and have a good chance ofpicking the winner.
I played one bracket just forthe sake of doing it.
(09:46):
I think I had Florida beatingHouston in the finals.
I don't know if I still believethat Three of the four teams
are averaging over 80 points agame.
Auburn has five guys averagingin double figures, almost six.
Florida has almost five guys indouble figures.
(10:07):
A lot of balance in those teams.
And Fiddy, as Bill Walton saidmany times in his broadcast
offense, wins championships.
And Bobby Knight even said youcan't win two to nothing in
basketball.
So I tend to agree with CoachKnight.
You've got't win two to nothingin basketball.
So I I tend to agree with coachKnight.
(10:27):
You got to be able to score anddefend.
I'm not really sure if thatanswered your question, bono,
but that's that's my take on it,mike.
Speaker 1 (10:38):
I expect nothing less from your answers.
Bad Like I, I love every singleanswer you give, because I have
no idea what you just said tome on that one, uh.
Speaker 6 (10:48):
So yeah, we just say that he got a in a bevo francis
and a bill walton reference andwithin like five minutes of the
podcast quickly, quickly out thegate.
Speaker 1 (11:02):
We.
Speaker 3 (11:02):
Like there was a shock bug.
Speaker 7 (11:07):
Bob Evans is on Rio Grande too.
We could talk about thatsometime, along with Bebo.
Speaker 1 (11:15):
Mike, I got to get you back on solo show and we're
just going to let you go.
I'm just going to ask onequestion and I'm just going to
let you go for the entire halfhour to an hour that we're on.
But for me, I struggle withthis one because I like
Houston's defense but I haveDuke in two of my brackets, so I
think Duke ultimately comes upwith the win.
(11:38):
I picked Florida in one of themjust for shits and giggles.
I honestly didn't think Floridawas going to make it this far.
They have, but yeah, I'd haveto go Duke on this one.
It's going to be a really goodmatchup with them in Houston.
I think Houston is going togive them fits in the first half
and then Duke's just going todo what they've done the entire
(11:59):
tournament and just run awaywith it.
But, mike, let's stay with you.
Who do you have in your ownpersonal Final Four picks before
March Madness began?
Did you have any of these teamsin the Final Four before the
tournament even got started?
Speaker 4 (12:19):
You're on mute, Mike.
You're muted, Mike.
Speaker 7 (12:24):
I did play a bracket I.
I had Florida beating Houstonin the championship 74 to 70 um,
but then I had a long shot,texas A&M, who got knocked out
in the second game, and I hadDuke getting upset.
So I you know there's allusually upsets not this year for
(12:44):
the number one seeds but so Idid have florida and houston in
the final then.
I don't know if I still believethat, but that's who I had okay
, uh duncan, what about you?
Speaker 3 (12:55):
well, I didn't play a bracket because that would be
illegal.
Speaker 2 (12:58):
So only if there's money involved.
Speaker 3 (13:01):
Yeah, um, yeah, someone took my guesses and I
did say Houston and Auburn, butI didn't know if either one of
them were going to win it.
Just because they're two of theolder teams in college
basketball and they were alreadygood and already coaches and
everything matched up for them,so I picked both of them.
But in this tournament younever know who's going to win it
(13:24):
.
I do think that all four arerelatively talent-wise, kind of
even across the board.
So really it comes down tomatchups at that point and kind
of who has a hotter night thanthe other team.
We can make sense of it ahundred different ways, but
really the matchups at thispoint and who makes a couple
more shots.
But it's kind of how the FinalFour goes, which is exciting.
There's not a Hurley in therethat's going to win by 26.
(13:46):
This should be a pretty goodFinal Four.
Speaker 1 (13:49):
I definitely think it's going to be a good Final
Four.
But Finney, what about you?
Speaker 4 (13:56):
How do your brackets look in the Final Four?
Yeah, so I didn't pick achampion, but the Final Four, I
was predicting.
I had Michigan State, houston,michigan State, houston.
I had St John's and Wisconsin,if I'm not mistaken, and,
needless to say, three out ofthose four teams disappointed me
(14:18):
.
And you know, tom Izzo, you,you can coach for a long time,
but, man, you cannot win without, without the talent you used to
have.
So, tom, his own Michigan Statedisappointed me, but I did have
Houston.
I had one out of the four.
Speaker 1 (14:31):
I had Michigan State, too, as well.
I did have St John's going tothe Elite Eight, though, so
there was that too, but, steve,now that you're not the only one
who's talking on mute, what doyou got on this one?
Speaker 6 (14:43):
Right, yeah, I filled out a bracket in about 30
seconds.
I was real creative and Ipicked all four number ones.
So come last Sunday evening itwas really good to be able to
brag to most of my family that Iwas the only one to hit all
four, Taking a lot of chances toget those top four seeds to the
(15:05):
final four.
But I just think in this dayand age you're not going to see
as many more upsets anymore.
Speaker 1 (15:08):
I think you're right on that, and I normally do like
six or seven brackets just forfun.
I always do one serious one andthen I just kind of mess around
and I normally do an all-chalkone and this year I didn't do it
.
I'm really upset with myselfthat I didn't do it, because I
would have done fantastic inthat one if I did an all chalk
one this year, but I didn't doit.
Uh, but barth, what about you?
Speaker 5 (15:32):
was it really legit, though, if you're doing six,
seven brackets?
Speaker 1 (15:34):
I mean, let's be honest here I mean, I do one
legit one where I sit down andplan it out, but then I just
have fun.
Speaker 5 (15:40):
But you could say that six, or you could say the
other one of those.
Five, though, are legit.
I wouldn't, though, Okay allright, stay true to your word.
All right, I'm not coming atyou, Bono.
Speaker 3 (15:50):
You are coming at me, Bartholomew.
Speaker 5 (15:53):
All right, but anyway I got two out of the four I had
.
Unfortunately, Rick Pitino letme down, and so did Nate Oates.
Their offense could not sustainanother 100-point game, and
Duke was just too good.
But I ultimately which willprobably say it later but I have
auburn and houston in the final.
Not going to tell you who Ipicked, though, yet yeah, I said
we'll get to that later.
Speaker 1 (16:14):
Don't, don't, don't spoil, don't spoil.
Speaker 5 (16:16):
I did get two out of the four.
Half is better than zeroabsolutely bob.
Speaker 1 (16:20):
What about you?
Speaker 2 (16:22):
well, I actually had three out of the four.
I kind of went chalk as well.
The only difference I thoughtTennessee was going to be
Houston, even though Houston hasa great defense like that.
I just thought like the SEC wasa really good league this year
and they were beating each otherup.
Actually, I had Tennesseewinning it too.
I was out with that one.
Speaker 1 (16:43):
Yeah, I didn't have Tennessee anywhere near sniffing
the final four.
I had three.
I had Houston, florida and Dukein all of my brackets.
I liked Houston's defense.
I didn't know Auburn was goingto do as well as they did.
I thought they were going to beone of the ones that got beat
out by one of the Cinderella'searly in the tournament.
(17:04):
I thought they were going to beone of the ones that got beat
out by one of the Cinderella'searly in the tournament.
But yeah, I mean I was happywith the, with the three out of
the four.
Like I said, I have Dukewinning it all and you know,
(17:28):
speaking of Duke, you knowsports people have that the
Cooper flag is the greatestfreshman basketball player in
basketball history.
I mean, is this an accuratestatement when?
Speaker 2 (17:31):
you compare him to other freshmen that have played
in the past.
Bob, I think I don't know.
I think it's so hard.
I mean, I can remember goingback when Patrick Ewan came on
as a freshman for Georgetown.
You know he was just a greatplayer all around too, and for
Georgetown, I think you know hewas just a great player all
around too.
But I just think this yearmaybe I can't think of any other
guys that have come on.
There's so many, like one ofDon's, that you forget.
(17:55):
Like who Right, you know, whodid it, you know.
And then you got the guys thatjust skipped, went right from
high school.
So I think that this era, maybethis last couple of years, I
think he's the greatest.
But I think there's a lot ofother freshmen that have played
in the past that I think areprobably comparable to him.
Speaker 1 (18:11):
This year I got you, barth, what about you?
Speaker 5 (18:16):
I mean, I'm a lot younger than most of you guys
here, so it's not going off asmuch here.
Speaker 1 (18:23):
Always got to get those stabs in about our age.
We're a destroyer.
Speaker 3 (18:28):
Every show you're on, Barth, you're always getting
those age digs in His facialhair doesn't look so young, I'm
telling you.
Speaker 5 (18:35):
You're going to mistake him for being a lot
older.
But I mean you can go back toanother Duke player, zion
Williamson same type, I mean,coming in.
I mean Cooper Flaggen is verygood though.
He's fun to watch and he's notone of those Duke players that
you hate.
You know like there's been guysthat come through as Duke
players, just like I can't standwatching them.
Uh, he's not one of those.
(18:56):
I actually enjoy watching himplay and he, he plays the game
the right way.
No, that doesn't really answeryour question, but he, he's fun
to watch.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
All right, steve, what about you?
Speaker 6 (19:06):
I'm going to work in a little Mike Worrell story here
on this opinion.
I'm going to say he's not thebest yet, but could be Back
early in my career.
I had the pleasure to work forCoach Mike Worrell there and he
took me on a trip down to NewOrleans for the Final Four.
And there was a young man onSyracuse's team that ended up
(19:26):
winning the nationalchampionship and was the most
outstanding player.
Carmelo Anthony, as a freshman,led his team to a national
championship.
So you know, same like with theLeBron Jordan talk right Like
everybody has an opinion, but hewon the championship.
Cooper Flagg hasn't won anychampionship yet.
So and Mike was big time onthat, allowing me to kind of
(19:50):
stay out at the casinos tilllate or early in the morning,
really make a little bit ofmoney, get in a little trouble,
and he still took me home andkept me hired.
So I'll take all that fromCoach Worrell.
Speaker 1 (20:02):
It's a great weekend from coach oral.
It's a great weekend.
Speaker 6 (20:08):
We almost got robbed in the hotel halfway down, but
that's a another podcast.
He could tell you I can.
Speaker 4 (20:14):
I can say I've heard that story from Steve.
I've heard that story.
Speaker 1 (20:20):
I don't have the time to get into that story, but
we'll.
That's another story foranother day.
Speaker 4 (20:29):
But Spitty, what about you?
No, he's not.
He's not even top 10, becauseyou got to look at the history
of basketball and, technically,the guys that couldn't play
their freshman year, who intheory, were freshmen when they
played back, when they onlycould play three years Kareem
Abdul-Jabbar, bill Walton, youcould say Carmelo Anthony,
patrick Ewing you could talkabout, then you could talk about
(20:49):
Derek Rose.
I think Derek Rose, as afreshman, was way above and
beyond better Than Cooper Flagg.
I think he's good, but he'sjust what the cool thing is
right now To say he's one of thegreatest Freshmen of all time
or the greatest freshman of alltime, no, and he wasn't even
better than Kevin Duran at Texaseither.
So I'm going to say all thoseguys were better than Cooper
(21:12):
flag.
Speaker 1 (21:14):
Okay, out the gate, hot with that one.
I will say this that's onlyseven players I was counting, so
that would still put him in thetop 10.
Just to kind of poke holes inyour in your answer.
Speaker 3 (21:32):
There, fitty, I can find three more.
I'm sure you can.
I'm sure you could find threemore, duncan.
What about you one?
I retract my first statementthat that fitty's somehow
maturing in all of this.
And fitty is now back.
He is back in full force bysaying he's not even top 10.
If Duke wins the championshipand old Coop dad averages 25
plus, he's easily going to be,if not one, probably top five
(21:54):
freshman phenoms of all time.
Steve the thief stole myCarmelo reference so that one
hurt a little bit.
Speaker 6 (22:03):
He came on the trip with us.
Speaker 3 (22:06):
Yeah, I was.
I was actually in the casino,he just didn't know I was there.
Yeah, I would say a lot depends, like like anything in sports
depends on if he wins it.
If he does, I give him thethumbs up of easily being a top
five guy, if as long as he playswell, which I think has got a
good chance.
There's been plenty of freshmento average 20, 25, 30 points
and never won it, so it'sprobably why I don't put him in
(22:28):
there, but he's headed that way.
It's definitely a chance,that's for sure.
Speaker 1 (22:33):
Okay, mike, what about you?
Speaker 7 (22:37):
I've been around a lot more than most of you guys.
I've seen more college freshmencome in I agree with what
everybody's saying almost andFlagg is one of the best I've
seen.
He reminds me of a Larry Bird,just maybe as quicker, but
skill-wise and everything youknow.
(22:57):
He can do it all.
He rebounds, can shoot thethree, can drive it pass, it
shoots well at the line.
He does it all.
I never really focused in onhis defense so I can't really
say much about that, but I Iwould put him as one of the best
I've seen in the last severalyears.
And I don't remember much aboutthat new orleans trip in 2003.
(23:23):
But I do know that steve bookedus a room some that was before
the internet maybe booked us aroom in memphis on halfway down
and with a gate, a big fencegate around it wherever we were
at, and somebody tried to breakin our room at 2 or 3 in the
morning but we got unscathed andmade it back home.
Speaker 3 (23:46):
Steve trying to make it in the room.
Speaker 1 (23:49):
Steve trying to get in.
Glad we got the cliff noteversion of that story for this
show here.
We'll dive into that a littlebit later.
Mike, which game are you mostexcited to watch?
Is it Auburn, florida or DukeHouston?
Speaker 7 (24:07):
You know both of them .
I probably went to 25 straightFinal Fours.
I haven't went in the lastseven or eight years.
Most of the time I would go toSaturday's games.
Every once in a while I'd stayfor Monday, but you know the
Saturday games are like.
It's just what an atmosphere onthat Saturday.
(24:27):
It's got to be behind the SuperBowl, it's got to be maybe the
next event Exciting, and it's along, long day slash night.
We watched those two semifinalgames on Saturday.
We were in the arena for likeseven hours for those games and
(24:48):
just sort of throw a pet peeveout there about.
You know it's excruciating tobeat those games with all those
media timeouts.
By the way, it's not so bad athome.
You can get up, go to thebathroom, go get something to
drink.
When you're there with allthose media timeouts it's a long
night.
But both games I thinkpotentially, you know, in a
(25:11):
one-and-done situation where youhave a bad shooting night or
you could be out quickly but I'mlooking forward to both games.
Speaker 1 (25:19):
Okay, duncan, what about you?
Speaker 3 (25:23):
Well, now that everybody's talked about Cooper
Flagg, but I'm looking forwardto both games.
Okay, duncan, what about you?
Well, now that everybody'stalked about Cooper flag, I'm
kind of interested to see how heresponds kind of against such a
tough, gritty team.
I I guess this is going back tothe question before I think
Cooper's got a level to him, toa top, I would say a toughness
that takes him over the hill andprobably makes this a game or
(25:45):
maybe even gets them a win inthis.
So I'm probably a little bitmore excited to see that one.
Just from that aspect, you gota 17, 18 year old, which I'm
pretty sure Cooper at this pointis like the average age of a
high school senior, because Ithink he kind of four went his
like last year anyway, um, soprobably a little bit more
excited to see that.
But I love the sport in generalso I'll watch most all right
(26:08):
bitty.
Speaker 1 (26:09):
What about you?
Speaker 4 (26:10):
I'm kind of going off what duncan said.
I want to say it's duke inhouston, because in theory you
have the unstoppable forceversus the immovable object.
You have probably the you knowpeople say the greatest freshman
of all time versus probably oneof the best defensive teams of
all time in Houston.
So you have this unstoppableforce meeting this immovable
object.
So we'll see what happens inthat.
(26:32):
But I think that's the game I'mmore excited about.
Speaker 1 (26:34):
Okay, Steve.
Speaker 6 (26:38):
As a former great defender in my day.
But since this change, as I'vegotten older, I don't look
forward to watching defensivegrind out battles.
So really looking forward towatch Florida Auburn Cause.
I think there'll be some pointsthere.
I think they'll get up and downa little bit and hopefully make
some shots.
So I I'm looking forward tothat.
I love watching Clayton play.
(26:59):
Uh, I just think he makes somehard shots look really easy and
that's exciting for me.
So I think I like that matchupbetter, just for the potential
of greater offense.
Speaker 1 (27:12):
I got you, barth, what about you?
Speaker 5 (27:16):
Yeah, I'd have to go with Steve.
You know being a great defender, I was back in the day.
You know I did lead my highschool in charges.
At one point I got passed.
But it is true, believe it ornot.
Speaker 6 (27:28):
I do believe it, because you probably only had
one person keeping stats.
Speaker 5 (27:32):
Okay, here we go First guy If you're taking
charges in noon hoops, so thatyou know you're in play.
I did do that I do that too.
Speaker 6 (27:43):
I don't think that's a real penalty in noon hoops.
Speaker 1 (27:45):
Anyway, did any penalties get called in noon
hoops If we're going to behonest.
Speaker 5 (27:51):
Not really no, but anyways, I like points.
I guess with Bama I was hopingthey, because they don't play
any defense at all.
It's kind of like when weplayed Greenville in college the
score was 150 to 140.
I mean, it's just unreal whatthey do.
They do their Grinnell system.
So I think I'm going to leantowards more watching the
Florida-Auburn game thanDuke-Houston.
Speaker 1 (28:14):
Okay, bob, what about you?
Speaker 2 (28:17):
I think Duke-Houston.
Like I said, just whatever hesaid about the defense of
Houston will they be able toshut down Cooper Flagg, how
they're going to defend him, andstuff like that.
I think that game does have thepotential to be the blowout,
though I think if they can'tcontain Flagg, I think it's
going to be a long night becauseI don't think Houston's offense
is going to be able to keep upwith Duke.
So if the defense doesn't workout, then it's going to be a
(28:39):
long night for them.
But I just want to see how theydo that, how they contain him.
No one has done it yet intournaments, so I think that
they're going to work on that.
So that's the game I'm going tolike to watch the most.
Speaker 1 (28:50):
I gotcha.
Yeah, I'm most looking forwardto Duke, houston.
I just want to see how thatgame's going to play out.
So, bob, we'll stay with you onthat one, uh.
So which remaining team has thecoaching advantage?
Is that bruce pearl, uh forauburn?
Uh calvin sampson for houston,uh todd golden from florida or
(29:14):
john shire from duke?
Speaker 2 (29:18):
that's a hard.
That's a hard one because wehad a lot, a lot of young
coaches, except for bruce pearl,uh, who's been around for a
while.
Um, I think shires did a goodjob with duke, I mean with the
kids and stuff you um thetradition and the pressure.
So I think probably shire atduke, I think, uh, with him,
just with all the pressure thathe has.
(29:39):
Uh, you know, replacing coach k.
So I think it has to be himokay, steve, what about you?
Speaker 6 (29:46):
uh, yeah, I uh, you know bruce pearl obviously has
has been around a bit longer.
Uh, I always like to thank himfor what he did for ohio state
basketball, having like anillegal cookout when he was at
tennessee.
So aaron craft came to, came toColumbus.
Mike Worrell was like a noonhooper of like Aaron Kraft.
They're very similar talent.
Couldn't make a long jumper butdeadly up inside and could
(30:10):
really defend.
But really I don't know howmuch it is really about coaching
anymore At that level.
Those guys are just so freakinggood.
Right, it's the side out ofbound.
That's critical and you knowwho can create those right plays
.
You know in key situations andthat's.
I think Florida did a good jobin a couple of their close games
(30:32):
.
Shire's done a good job, kelmanSamson's been around right,
like so I don't know it's whomakes more shots, but yeah, I
don't think it's who makes moreshots.
Uh, but yeah, I don't think acoach is going to win or lose
this one.
Speaker 1 (30:46):
Okay, pretty.
What about you?
Speaker 4 (30:48):
I got to go with Kelvin Samson because he went
into exile from the uh, thecollege basketball realm and he
coached in the NBA.
You learn from a lot of guys atcoaching at the highest level
and I think he brought thatmentality then back back um to
them with that defensivefierceness not that he wasn't a
good defensive coach before,like at oklahoma in those places
but I gotta go, kelvin samson,just because it is experience
(31:11):
coaching in the nba with moreschematics and against more
talented players, right like incollege basketball, and
everyone's been around longenough and has coached it.
I mean it really comes down toyour players.
Maybe not so much coaching whenthe NBA, you know everyone's
almost equal talent-wise, youknow, and then you have your
upper echelon guys and you'vegot to really prepare for that.
But I just think it's CalvinSampson just because of his
(31:33):
experience having to coachagainst guys like LeBron and
Kobe and all those guys thatwere playing at that time.
So he really has learned, Ithink, a lot of good schematics.
So that's why my nod is withhim.
Speaker 1 (31:45):
Okay, mike, what about you?
Speaker 7 (31:48):
I'm going to give my traditional answer Bono and
Kenny.
Every podcast we've talked.
Talk about the coaching aspectand you have the better players
you have, the better chance youhave at winning.
All four of these teams haveare loaded with players.
Talk about cooper flag.
(32:09):
He got hurt a few weeks ago.
Duke won without him.
They got some other guys.
They're loaded without flag.
Add him there.
They're super loaded.
Um.
So whoever wins it this year,the next podcast will be that
guy's the best coach in americaright now, at least for six
(32:29):
months.
Then next year it'll switch.
You remember when everybodyhung this hurley guy?
Everybody hung on every word hesaid the last year and a half
on Twitter.
He'll be forgotten here in afew months.
The new winner of this yearwill be the new flavor until the
next season, until next year.
(32:50):
I don't know if I reallyanswered your question, but I
gave my traditional answer.
Speaker 1 (32:55):
You did give your traditional answer.
I swear one day I'm going tohave a show where I'm going to
force you to make just a just apick on something like that.
It's just going to be a wholeshow of me just holding you to
the question, mike.
But I love your answers everytime and for the new listeners
out there, you can tell how longmike whirl uh was a coach with
(33:16):
his answers.
Those are the most like pressconference pr answers I've ever
heard come out of a human beingand it's from Mike Worrell and I
love it every time.
Mike, it's not a bash.
I love the answers every time.
Speaker 7 (33:30):
Marty Schottenheimer is still my guy by the way.
Speaker 1 (33:33):
Yeah, barth, what about you?
Speaker 5 (33:40):
You got a pick for us with the coaching uh, I mean
everybody's really hit on thespot there with all these teams
are loaded with talent.
I mean it's gonna come down toit's at the end and, like Mike
said there, everybody's forgotabout this Hurley guy.
Is it Bobby Hurley or DanHurley?
I forgot um.
Speaker 6 (33:56):
Dan.
Speaker 5 (33:57):
I mean Dan F, that was a joke.
Come on, fitty, at least youfell for it, at least someone
did.
But I mean, I don't know, youcould draw a name out of a hat
and you're like all right, he'sthe best coach.
I think with these four, justwhat it is right now.
I mean, if I had to pick one,though, for you to just answer
your question, I'll just go withBruce Pearl.
Speaker 1 (34:19):
Okay, duncan, round us out.
Speaker 3 (34:22):
Bruce Pearl.
He was a national D2 coach ofthe year a time or two decades
ago.
He has made his way up.
He's recruited under the rocksand coached in the little gyms
and he's winning one for uslittle guys.
I don't know if that's right,but I'm giving one to Bruce
Pearl.
Speaker 1 (34:38):
All right, I can appreciate it, especially from
where he came from.
But this next one this one isfor Mike Whirl only.
And Mike, you had the nationalslam dunk champion from when you
were a head coach.
Can you talk to us about thewhole experience at the Final
(34:58):
Four and some of the people thatyou met and seen there?
Speaker 7 (35:08):
yeah, that was 2011 when all that happened.
And, uh, we had a decent teamthat year.
We were second the conferenceand got beaten the championship
of the conference tournament.
But, um, like the last twoweeks of the season, we cut down
practices.
It was winding down and theguys would stick out, stay out
(35:34):
on the court.
I'd go change, come out andthey were like filming Jacob
Tucker doing different dunks andstuff.
I had no idea what they weredoing.
I didn't care, as long as theydidn't get hurt, I'd go
recruiting or go home.
Well, the Monday after we gotbeat, I was in the office and
jacob tucker called me in theoffice and said there's a video
(35:57):
on youtube that you should lookat and it was that video
compilation of all his dunksthose guys have been working on
for two, three weeks, and thatthat video went viral.
Make a long story short that'show he got invited to the slam
dunk contest, because divisionthree guys didn't get invited to
(36:18):
those things.
And, uh, you know, then it wasin houston.
That year he went down tuesdayor Wednesday.
They had a practice onWednesday.
I went down.
Thursday.
I went to my son's Bono, whoyou did a podcast with a few
weeks ago.
Yeah, he was playing highschool baseball.
(36:39):
Then I went to his gameWednesday.
Then I flew down to HoustonThursday.
Well, we get to the Houstonarena and it was a dump.
This was before they renovatedit.
But when you walk in you seebanners up in the arena Elvin
Hayes, clyde Drexler Then you'relike, wow, these guys all
played in this arena.
(36:59):
They fixed it up since then,the last six, eight years.
So we get there.
I got nervous at my son's highschool baseball game Wednesday
because I saw Jacob in the gympracticing new dunks and I got
worried that, you know, maybethis is not going to work out
for us or for him.
So I called him in Houston atmy son's baseball game.
(37:22):
I said tuck.
We called him tuck.
I said are you sure?
Are you these dunks?
You're trying these hard dun.
Are you sure?
Are you these dunks?
You're trying these hard dunks.
Are you, are you ready?
Are you sure you want to dothese?
He goes, don't worry about it.
It was, we'll be okay, allright.
So we get to the arena Thursdayin Houston, university of
(37:44):
Houston and Brad Underwood nowthe Illinois coach was then
assistant coach for Frank Martin.
I can't remember where, kansasState maybe.
But I knew Brad Underwoodbecause he used to be at Western
Illinois and they had a shooter.
Kansas State had a shooter in athree-point contest, jacob
(38:07):
Poland.
So I'm talking with FrankMartin and Brad Underwood and
they said, hey, your guys in theslam dunk contest.
I said yeah, because we'vetalked.
We've talked to Jacob today,our guy.
They had a practice threepointers and the dunkers the
night before and they said thethings Tucker was doing, the
(38:29):
dunks, he goes.
Those guys are scared to deathof Tucker.
They're in the slam dunkcontest.
I said what?
He goes, they're scared todeath of him.
To make a long story short, ofcourse Tucker won it.
Carl Malone, he was one of thejudges.
I can't remember the otherjudges.
I remember the announcers.
Brad Nessler, dan Dockich andJimmy Dykes were the three
(38:54):
announcers there that night.
So he won it.
I didn't know how big of a dealit was until the next day and
they kept Jacob Tucker an extranight.
They flew everybody back homethe next day.
They kept him to be a judge atthe National High School dunk
contest, which was the nextnight, friday night.
(39:16):
So I met, I said Tuck, come downto the Hyatt.
I was at the headquarters whereall the coaches were at, and
he's going to meet me.
We're going to spend the daytogether.
Blah, blah, blah.
I'm in the lobby of the hoteland and Tucker was 5'10 1⁄2",
(39:36):
maybe 5'11".
So I'm watching a TV in thelobby at the Hyatt Everybody's
wearing their coach's shirt.
There's a guy from St John's,one from Syracuse assistant
coaches.
They're watching.
I'm standing there watching theslam dunk contest with them.
There's about 20 peoplewatching it and they're like
(39:59):
bitching.
That guy's not funny.
There's like he's at least 6'3".
He's at least 6'2" and I'mstanding right there.
I'm hoping Tucker would come upand I'm going to tell these
guys hey, this is the guy righthere, but they left and whatever
.
And then Jeff Bowles, the coachat Ohio University, who I've
known a long time.
He's outside with me.
(40:22):
On Tucker, we meet out there.
Jeff goes hey your guy won thedunk contest.
We talked for like two minutesand finally I said Coach Bowles.
I said this is him right here.
He didn't believe it because hewas only like five, ten and a
half and we tried to go to lunch.
There's a big food court acrossour hotel in Houston and
(40:45):
there's TVs everywhere andTucker's getting mobbed.
He can't even eat his lunchdown there.
You know people want pictures,autographs, houston Rockets
staffed there, a bunch of youngkids, interns, I think they
played that night.
They said, hey, we want youguys to come to our game tonight
.
I can't remember who they wereplaying, but we couldn't go.
(41:06):
I had an engagement and Tuckerhad to judge the slam dunk
contest, so we couldn't go andgave our tickets to somebody
else.
But anyway, it was a big deal.
I met a lot of people.
It was crazy for a couple ofmonths.
Of course, he went on to playat the Harlem Globetrotters for
a year after that and then gavethat up.
(41:29):
So Jacob Tucker made me famous,at least for a few months.
Speaker 4 (41:35):
Well, if anyone doesn't know, Mike is the only
coach in NCAA history,regardless of classification, to
coach over 400 games, have thenational slam dunk champion and
coach a Division III team tobeat a Division I team.
Mike has that over Coach K,bobby Knight, danny Hurley,
(41:56):
everyone.
Mike is the only coach in NCAAhistory to accomplish that.
Speaker 1 (42:01):
It was Phitty at the end with the stats.
I love it.
Speaker 7 (42:05):
Just to make it clear , I've lost a lot of games too.
It doesn't matter.
Speaker 4 (42:09):
I've been coached, coached over 400 games.
Speaker 1 (42:13):
He didn't say won over 400 games, Mike.
He said coached over 400 games.
Speaker 3 (42:17):
That's the darkest living room in the country.
Speaker 7 (42:22):
I'm sorry for listening and, fetty, unlike
those other guys, I'm basicallybroke and those guys are
multimillionaires Wow.
Speaker 1 (42:36):
Oh well, with that being said and we kind of
touched on this with the lastquestion for everybody.
But, duncan, let's go with youand start with you on this one.
During the last two titlechampionships, a lot of people
said Danny Hurley from Yukon wasone of the greatest coaches of
all time.
(42:56):
It was mentioned in the samebreath as coach K John Wooden
and the great Bobby Knight.
Will any of the coaches intoday's era ever be as great as
any of those three guys?
Speaker 3 (43:10):
ever be as great as any of those three guys um, in
the same breath, I think.
I think I think the older twoprobably.
You got you got to win a nattyto be in the same conversation.
If either of them do, I wouldsay they deserve to probably be
in the same breath, the sameconversation.
Are they equal?
Probably not until you win two,but at the same time I would if
(43:33):
something about florida's coachtells me that it'll be in the
nba at some point.
I don't know why, like he'llleave college before he has a
rep of being the elite collegecoach and just doesn't make it
long enough to be the elitecollege coach.
He like does well enough andhe's the coach of the Orlando
Magic and doesn't come back tocollege.
He did for some reason.
So I don't know if he'll godown as, like one of the great
(43:55):
college guys.
Typically Duke coaches, youknow, stay forever.
So I could, I could see himrunning that uh profession and
that job out long enough toprobably be considered that.
So if I had to bet money, Iwould probably say Shire.
If I had to say, right now, Ithink Houston and Auburn's
(44:17):
probably got a really goodchance, I just, you know older
guys stuck it out through theNIL deals Today.
I think they deserve probablyto be in the conversation the
most.
Speaker 1 (44:26):
Okay.
Speaker 5 (44:30):
Barth, what about you ?
I mean it's difficult to putthose up there with those guys.
I mean there's somewhere sleeveand leaving out that could be
put in the realm, up with thoseguys above, where these guys are
at.
So I mean some of them have along way to go in their career.
Obviously we got two young guys, two old guys.
The two older guys they don'tgot maybe as much time left to
prove themselves, so what arethey gonna do with that?
(44:51):
But the younger guys, anythingcan happen.
They could be fired next week.
You know what I mean.
Like obviously not gonna happen, but situations happen and
everything.
So I mean I would say shortanswer right now.
Speaker 1 (45:03):
Uh, no okay, biddy, what about you?
Speaker 4 (45:07):
no, I don't think so, because the thing is like what
john wooden did is is probablythe most incredible run in
sports history, um to have someof the greatest players ever to
recruit them and stay duringthat time.
Granted was a different era.
Um, coach k maybe shire, maybeif he wins a couple national
championships and coach 40 years.
But I don't think anybody willbe in the realm of bobby knight.
(45:29):
And the reason is bobby knightand for the older guys on the
show that know this, bobbyKnight coached NBA players, but
outside of Isaiah Thomas, bobbyKnight never coached outstanding
NBA players.
He coached a bunch of guyswho've moved on and went into
careers or coaches, you know,like Mike Woodson and guys like
that.
John or Bobby Knight did morewith less and he also graduated
(45:54):
all of his guys and they stayedfor four years and they retained
and he was the last coach inNCAA history to coach an
undefeated team in 1976.
So I don't think anyone willever be like those guys and I
don't think they'll ever besomeone like Bobby Knight again.
And Danny Hurley couldn't carryBobby Knight's whistle.
Speaker 1 (46:16):
See, like Bob Knight.
I think Fiddy likes Bob Knight.
I'm going to go out on a limbhere.
But Mike, what about you withthis question?
Speaker 7 (46:29):
It's hard for me to answer this.
Bono, as Fiddy and I talk aboutoften.
There's no loyalty anymore Onany level players, coaches,
administrators.
I just don't see.
I see more coaches hoppingaround and not staying at places
like they used to, you know,like Wood and Coach K not
(46:56):
staying in the same school forthat long.
It's not even happening at theDivision III and Division II
level anymore.
It's just people are hoppingaround more and especially since
you know the tournament's asemi-pro tournament I call it
now this NCAA Division Isemi-pro basketball and football
it's getting harder for me towatch, believe me, with players
(47:23):
and coaches moving around.
I know there's always a questionwho might get back to the final
four next year?
Yeah, half those guys in thesefinal four in their rotation
might not be on these same fourteams next year.
So so I don't know coaches Iguess you'll be.
(47:45):
They'll be judged by the mediaand everybody if they win win
the national championship hereand if they go to another school
and win it.
Calipari is legendary now fortaking four different teams to
the final eight or 16.
You'll probably see more ofthat.
That statistic will startcoming up more often.
So-and-so has taken three teamsto the Elite Eight or four
(48:08):
teams to the Sweet 16.
Again, I probably didn't answeryour question, but I had to get
that off my chest about the newsemi-pro tournament bono.
Speaker 4 (48:18):
I gotta jump back in and say this too, though.
And the thing is, before bobbyknight died if everybody
remembers his back before covethit bobby knight didn't coach
for 20 years at indiana.
Bobby knight got a standingovation and all of his players
came back, and those peoplerocked out that gym, for the
Hoosiers like Bobby Knight neverleft.
Danny Hurley will never havethat.
Speaker 1 (48:40):
Okay.
Speaker 7 (48:41):
No he does not like Danny Hurley.
Speaker 1 (48:44):
But Steve, what about you for this question?
Speaker 6 (48:48):
It's just everything Fitty said is a lot to unpack.
Yeah, I don't think anybody inthe final four is worried about
retaining guys for four yearsanymore.
John Shire doesn't care ifCooper Flagg stays at Duke.
He knows that's not going tohappen.
So Fitty to say Bob Knight waspart of the reason he was a
(49:12):
great coach because his playersstayed.
It's a totally different worldnow and I am a Bob Knight guy
from the area he grew up in, soI think he is one of the best.
But it's going to be hard tojudge coaches today because of
the landscape that collegeathletics.
They're not going to stickaround.
You look at Jay right, he hadenough of the NIL world and was
(49:37):
like I'm, I'm retiring, I'mgoing to go call games on
whatever channel he's on.
Now, except for like a JohnShire, I don't see any of those
guys sticking around.
Like a Bruce Pearl's alwaysgoing to have other stuff
hanging around him.
I think even if he does win onechampionship, there's still
going to be enough negative uhpeople will talk about same with
(49:59):
uh kelvin samson.
So they won't be listed at thatlevel, I think, uh.
And then the florida guy.
I agree, I don't.
I don't think he's going tostick around long.
I I just don't think you'regoing to have the same.
It's a different game now tosteal Mike's semi-pro basketball
tournament.
All these teams are going tolook different next year.
(50:22):
Nate Oates is going to have atotally different team in
Alabama than he did this yearand it's just going to become
that now.
And who's going to have moremoney to pay those guys?
Who's got more NIL money?
That's is going to be who's thebest coaches.
Speaker 1 (50:38):
I got you Bob.
What about you?
Speaker 2 (50:43):
Yeah, I agree with whatever he's saying.
I think the landscape's a lotdifferent than back, you know,
at night, coached and wouldn'tcoach.
I think the problem, like Isaid, these guys don't stay the
two, even three years anymore.
I mean, they stay one year andyou're almost reloading your
team so I can't see any coach.
And I agree, the coaches don'tstick around as much.
(51:03):
You're trying to go to the proor you're going to move up to a
better place where they havemore NIL money, and that's what
I think the coaches are going tobe looking for now is where the
money, where's the money at,where it's going, and I think
that's where coaches are goingto move around to.
Speaker 1 (51:16):
I got you yeah, coaches don't stick around and
players don't stick around, it's.
It's completely different fromwhen those guys coached.
Answer this question for me,quick answers no, basically, for
what everybody else said,saying it's just I don't.
I don't think anybody will comeclose to those guys.
(51:38):
Um, especially today's era ofbasketball.
Uh, but we're gonna wind theshow down here with this
question here and bob, let'sstart with you.
Who wins both games and who'sthe national championship after
this weekend?
Speaker 2 (51:55):
um, I like, and these two, I think I like Florida and
Duke, and then I like Florida.
Win it all this one.
Okay, steve, what about?
Speaker 6 (52:04):
you, I would second what Bob said Florida, duke,
florida wins it all okay, bettyBiddy.
Speaker 4 (52:11):
I'm going to go, the two old guys, auburn and Bruce
Pearl, and I'm going to go withKelvin Sampson and Houston, and
I'm going to go with theimmovable object of Houston
winning the championship.
Speaker 1 (52:22):
Okay, mike, what about you?
Speaker 7 (52:25):
I don't agree with what I'm saying, but my original
bracket I had Florida andHouston getting there and
Florida winning 74-70, so I gotto stick with that.
Speaker 1 (52:36):
Okay, barth.
Speaker 5 (52:38):
Like Mike said, I got to stick with what I had in my
bracket Auburn over Houston andI think I had Auburn winning by
nine.
So I'm going with Auburn.
Speaker 1 (52:46):
I got you Duncan.
Speaker 3 (52:49):
It's gross, but Fitty's starting to make sense
again.
It's time to go, you didn'teven answer the question.
Houston, because they got closea couple times and that's about
time they win one.
There you go, okay.
Speaker 1 (53:06):
I'm going to go Duke and Florida and I got Duke
winning it over Florida.
I picked those two because Idid two brackets and I have
Florida winning in one and Dukewinning in the other.
So I'm going Florida and Duke,but I still ultimately think
Duke takes it and Duke becomesthe national champions this year
(53:30):
.
But that is going to do it forthis week's episode of the ride
home rants podcast.
I want to thank everybody forcoming on Mike, duncan, fitty,
barth, steve and Bob.
This was a lot of fun gettingto talk all things for the final
four and break down what wethink is going to happen in this
year's final four for the men'sncaa bracket.
(53:53):
As always, if you enjoyed theshow, be a friend, tell a friend
.
If you didn't, tell themanyways, because they might like
it just because you didn't,that's gonna do it for me and I
will see y'all next week.
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