June 1, 2022 • 72 mins
A horse is always learning—for better or for worse. The more you understand how horses learn and how this shapes their behavior, the more effective training is, the more responsive the horse is, and the more cohesive the horse-human relationship is.
Plus, in the popular “What the Hay?” segment at the end of the episode, I’ll answer questions from listeners about a young horse with bad trailer loading experiences, a mustang with trouble focusing, and finally, a dominant off-track Standardbred.
Want your question answered in What the Hay? Email podcast@juliegoodnight.com
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:02):
You're an inspiration.
You were there to help me.
You just saw the need and said,Can I help you?
We learn a lot from watching other horsesand watching other riders.
I'm Julie.
Goodnightand thanks for listening to my podcast
about horsetraining and equestrian sports.
(00:24):
It's time for Ride On with Julie.
Goodnight
Since the last time we recorded,
I've been enjoying a breakfrom a pretty hectic travel season
this spring after traveling coastto Coast numerous times
and being a presenterat a bunch of different horse expos.
I'm actually ready for a break.
(00:46):
I've enjoyed being home more recently,
riding with my friendsand working in my garden.
I've got some big plans this summer.
I hope to do a little more boatingand fishing and some more mountain biking
in addition to my horse.
Fun, of course.
But latelywe've been dealing with some late season
(01:07):
snowstorms I can't complain too muchbecause it is husband
badly needed moistureand we'll take what we can get.
But it has made it ratherhard to believe that summer's almost here.
When you look outside and see four or fiveinches of snow on the ground in May.
(01:27):
But summer is coming.
It's just around the corner.
I have just one more public eventcoming up before
my summer break begins in earnest.
That's in June at the HarmonyEquine Center.
This is a fundraising horse expo,
and I'm super happy to be donating my timeto support the excellent work done there
(01:50):
by the Denver Dome Friends Leagueto support law enforcement
and their effortto protect at risk horses in our state.
My husband Reg is campaigning his horsethis summer.
So in addition to all my other fun,
I hope
to be attending a few of those eventswith him.
(02:11):
He's doing a series of ranchhorse competitions here in Colorado,
and convenientlythere's one of his competitions
is going on nearby the same weekend
as the Horse Expo, Harmony Equine.
So I will be able to travel with him,
(02:31):
get dropped off to do my thing,and then I'll be able to join him
and I will join himand hang out at the competition.
And I get to play groom and coachfor the weekend, so that'll be fun.
This fall, I have three more clinicsat the renowned Steel
ICU ranch in Granby, Colorado,and the last time I checked,
(02:54):
they still had openingsin all three clinics
I have the popular RanchRiding Adventure in September and October.
That's a four dayvery active riding program for adults only
Also in October is the five dayhorsemanship immersion program.
This is the ideal program for people
(03:15):
that want a learning vacation.
We will study all aspects of horsesand riding with seminars
and hands on workshops,plus trail riding in the Rocky Mountains,
luxurious accommodations and gourmetmeals.
I'll also be leading two writingtrips in Ireland this fall with Connemara
(03:36):
equestrian tours At last count,both of those tours were booked solid.
But it never hurtsto get on the waiting list.
So for more information on my clinics,the horse expos that I'll be doing
and the riding vacationsI'm offering, please visit Julie.
Good. Dicom Slash Events.
And while you're there,check out my online training resources,
(03:59):
curriculumsand personalized coaching programs.
Plus, we've got innovative groomingtools, tech bits,
training equipment,and videos at sharp dot.
Julie Good night dot com
Today's topic
(04:19):
is understanding the difference in reward
reinforcement and punishment.
You know, a horse is always learningfor better or for worse.
And the more you understandhow horses learn,
how they perceive rewardor reinforcement or punishment
(04:41):
and what those respective rolesof these training
tools are in shaping your horses behavior,
the more you know, the more effectiveyou will be as a trainer
and the more cohesive and responsiveyour horse will be.
Let's talk first about how horses learn.
First of all, it's importantto understand the nature of horses is
(05:03):
that they are extremely fastlearning animals.
This is sort of a factor of being
a prey animal and a flight animal
Their first instinct,of course, is to flee from danger.
But they can't stayin a constant state of flight.
So they need to be able to learnabout their environment rapidly
(05:26):
in order to make decisionson how to stay safe.
So horses and because they're
also extremely sensitive animals,
they detect changes in their environment,changes and pressure
changes in everything immediatelybecause of their sensitivity level.
So all of these kind of factorscome together to make them
(05:49):
really rapidly learning animals.
And for better or worse, I mean that
sometimes they learn thingswe wish they hadn't learned.
So horses primarily learnby making associations between one thing
and another.
For instance, when we're training
a horse to be writtenand one of the first cues that we have to
(06:11):
teach themis to move forward off our seat and legs.
And so we inhale, shift our centerof gravity slightly forward and start
maybe fluttering your
legs to add soft leg pressure.
And then the horse starts thinking,you know, what is that leg pressure?
(06:31):
What does it mean?
What do I do one or whatI have to do to make it stop.
And eventuallyhe'll he'll guess a number of things.
And eventually one of those thingswill be to move forward.
And the instant he moves forward,you stop moving your legs.
You take away the pressure,and he instantly learns that
the way he makesthat pressure go away is to go forward.
(06:56):
So he makes an association
between the movement of your legsand the movement of his legs.
So horses learn by making associationsbetween one thing and another.
And this is where our unintended
consequencescome in, because sometimes horses
(07:17):
make intended associationslike the one I just described,
but sometimes they make unintendedassociations.
Let's say the first time I asked a horse
to canter under saddle,
and he thought that felt a little funnyand he didn't like doing it,
so he got a little squeamishand maybe he a crow
(07:39):
hopped a little bitor threw a little buck.
And in an abundance of caution,
I immediately stopped the horse.
Now, my reason for stopping
was to gain more control of the horsebefore I tried that again.
But the horse could have
and almostcertainly did make an association
(08:00):
between his crow hoppingand the rider stopping him.
So he learned thatif he didn't like the feel of that,
all he had to do was crow hopand then he could stop.
So that would have beenan unintended association.
And we don't always get to knowwhen horses
(08:22):
have made associations.
Sometimes they're totally accidentaland unintended.
And not even known.
I jokingly use the example of
if you were walking by a mailboxat the moment, your horse got stung
by a bee and he happenedto be looking at the mailbox.
(08:44):
He might forever be afraid of mailboxesbecause he thinks he's
going to get stung by a beeevery time he looks at a mailbox.
So that could be an associationthat a horse made that
we never really understoodor knew or or realized.
And so as we train a horse,
(09:04):
we try to create these associationsbetween a cue and the horse's actions
but we don't always get to knowwhat associations the horse has made.
And sometimes because we give
inadvertent rewards to the horsewhen we didn't mean to.
Sometimes we actually are responsiblefor creating unintended associations
(09:28):
by taking away the pressure or otherwiserewarding the horse
for the wrong response.
So horses are very fast learners,and this means that they're both
easy to train and untrained.
You you really can't teach
something to a horse, but you can unravelwhat he's previously learned.
(09:50):
If if a horse had previously learned
really good fundamentalsand had a very strong work
ethic and was very responsiveand obedient to the age of the rider.
But then after, let's say,a month of being written by a rider
who was passive,who did not reinforce cues
(10:12):
or inappropriately reinforce cuesand gave inappropriate rewards
like stopping the horseor quitting on the horse
when the horse was not respondingproperly,
then the horse is learning the wrongthings.
He's on learning or on training or you're
you're unraveling his training.
(10:35):
So another interesting factor about horses
in terms of their trainingand how quickly they learn
and how quickly their training can unravel
is that horses are very relationshiporiented animals.
They therefore, their responses
(10:55):
are likely to be quite differentfrom one person to another.
So horses, particularly horsesthat I have had experience
with all different types of riders,
meaning they have been ridden both
by very expert ridersand very beginner riders
They start learning that different ridershave different parameters
(11:19):
and different ridershave different expectations.
Levels of attention, levelsof confidence, levels of determination.
And so a horse can learn over timethat not all riders are the same.
And they learn thatwith a certain type of passive rider,
(11:40):
they might be able to get away with thingsthat they wouldn't even think of trying
with a more experienced, more adept rider.
So horses are kind of funny animalsin that way.
Also, they're very attuned
to the emotionalityof the animals around them.
(12:01):
Again, this is a natural horse behavior.
Is so it's a part of being a herd animal.
It's a part of being a prey animal
and a flight animal.
So horses are biologically programed
to be very aware of
and in fact to mimic
(12:22):
the emotionalityof the animals around them.
But they're also because
they're herd animalsand they're very focused on herd
hierarchy and leadership and the control
and the deference that needs to occur
(12:44):
due to the hierarchyof the various individuals in the herd.
Horses are also extremely aware of
the confidencelevel of the animals around them,
the level of intention,the level of determination,
the level of aggression, the level ofpassive ness of the animals around them.
(13:06):
And this includes humans.
So as a rider, you and your horseor a herd of two or a team of two,
and your horse is extremely attunedto your emotionality,
including your level of intentionand your level of determination.
So because horses are fast learnersand they're very aware
(13:31):
and they treat each individualdifferently,
these things all factor into
how horses learn,how they create associations
and how they respondto various individuals.
When horses
have experiencewith different types of riders,
(13:51):
they learn to test the rider.
They learn to exploreand probe boundaries.
They learn to explore how quick a rider
is to use reinforcement.
And also they learn and are very attuned
(14:14):
to how much pressurea rider is willing to use.
And in that reinforcement.
Horses are very very keen on this stuff
and is it's interesting that
when you reach a level
of confidence in your ridingand a skill level
(14:36):
where your reinforcementsto cues are precise
and with the perfect amount of pressureto motivate change
and the release of pressure,it's instantaneous and complete
Horses
learn that about you really fast,and then they never question.
(14:56):
And again, they never question your cue.
They never they never question
whether reinforcement is going to comebecause they know it will.
And so the funny thing about that is oncea horse learns that about you as a rider,
that you are willing to use reinforcement
and you will use it in a timelyand consistent manner
(15:18):
and you will always use an adequate amountof pressure to motivate change,
then you will never have to use that
pressure again because the horse knowsthat he learns that about you.
And once the lessons learned,it doesn't generally come up again.
So horses are really funny this way.
They're very fast, fast learners.
(15:40):
Now, let's talk for a minuteabout what horses perceive as reward.
It's not always what people think it is.
It's certainly not food
Horses love treats,
and they could certainly associate it
with a certain actionor behavior or response.
(16:02):
And that's
what we call positive reinforcement.
I'll get into that more, more later.
But because horses are
highly sensitive animals that feel
all sorts of pressure, very, very keenly,what horses
(16:22):
perceive most and greatest as a rewardis a complete cessation of pressure.
This is mental pressurephysical pressure, environmental pressure,
all types of pressure.
They they seek out
zero pressure.
They also, along the same
(16:45):
lines, value, rest as a reward.
So a flight animal
highly values his rest
and he is sort of programed
to want to conserve his energyin case it's needed for flight.
Horses perceive praise as a
(17:05):
reward, just a stroke on the neck, a kind
word, a soft whisper
I would say a cessation of pressureand rest
always comes before praise.
But the main reason that horses lovepraise
is because horses as herdanimals always seek acceptance.
(17:27):
You've seen that again and again and againany time you've tried to
introduce a new horse into an existingherd of horses, you know that
that new horse is instinctively driven
to be accepted into the herd.
He equates acceptance into the herdwith survival.
So horses
(17:49):
always seek acceptance and praise.
Your praise isan indication of your acceptance.
If your horse thinks of youas the leader of the herd.
And I like for my horses to think of me
as the supreme leaderof the entire universe.
(18:10):
And that way they for surethink of me as the leader of the herd.
And if they think of you as the leader,
then they are constantly seekingyour acceptance and approval.
So praise is very meaningfulto them in that circumstance.
Praise is, of course, only meaningfulwhen it's earned
And horses know the difference.
(18:30):
So, you know, just lavishinglove and kisses on a horse
that's done nothing to earn it.
Or doesn't even look up to youas the leader gets you nothing,
because you know thatthat doesn't mean anything to him.
But if he looks up to you as the leaderand if he knows you to be a benevolent
(18:51):
leader and to always recognize and rewardand take good care of him,
keep him safeand let him rest when he deserves it,
then he is seeking your acceptance always.
So praise becomes very meaningful.
As I mentioned just a moment ago,
(19:12):
we want to always becareful of food based rewards for horses.
It really doesn't have much placein the training
of a riding horse or two or three.
It really has very little placein the training of horses at all.
The only time I wouldI would routinely use a food based
(19:32):
reward for a horse would be after ahorse is loaded into a trailer.
I would never use food as a bribefor any kind of behavior.
But after a horse has gotten in a trailer,
it's a nice little reinforcement,positive reinforcement,
and makes them think of the traileras a happy place.
(19:53):
But other than that,I would be very cautious of using
any kind of foodbased reward in the training of horses.
And keep in mind that a horse works first
and foremostfor a cessation of all pressure.
That means from the pit.
That means from your legs.That means from your seat.
That means
the mentalpressure that you put on the horse.
(20:15):
He always seeks to rest.
So that is almost always goingto be perceived as a reward for a horse.
And then your praise and acceptance.
The next thing I'd like to talk about,it's really important for you
to have success in training a horse
both on the ground and under saddle.
(20:38):
And this is the difference between
reinforcement and punishment.
I notice as I doclinics around the country,
this is something I've noticedfor a very long time
that people have,
particularly peoplethat are new to horses,
(20:58):
have a a lot of confusion
between reinforcement and punishment.
A lot of people are reluctant
to reinforce a cuebecause they think of it as punishment.
They're confusing it with punishment,and they don't want to enter
(21:19):
into a kind of relationshipwith the horse where or things
where it involves punishment
and in many ways that are smart.
But if you're confusing, reinforceman and punishment
and then you don't want to punish,you're never going to get anywhere
with a horse because a horse
(21:41):
won't really respond to cues
until he understands thatthere will be reinforcement if he does.
So what is the differencebetween reinforcement of punishment?
It's very simple. It'svery black and white.
Reinforcement makes a response
more likely to occur
(22:04):
punishment discourages a response
So in other words,if I'm trying to teach a horse
a cue, let's sayit's the aforementioned leg.
Q When I gently flutter my legs,
that means you should move your feet
(22:26):
or move your feet faster
than and as soon as you do,I will release that pressure.
So if
I ask my horse to move forward by,I inhale or reach forward
shift my way forward and start fluttering
my legs and nothing happens.
(22:47):
And so I then immediately
clock and I
maybe just bump a little bit with my legs
instead of just touch my legsas reinforcement to the cue.
Then the horse learnsto respond to the cue.
(23:08):
So in that case,an escalation of the pressure
made the response more likely to occur.
The escalation of leg pressureand the clock and adding of that
audible pressurewas the reinforcement to the cue
and made the responsemore likely to occur next time
(23:32):
Punishment discourages a response,
and it is actually punishment
is an unpleasant action.
Which is in retribution for an offense.
Let's take, for
example, Buiding,which is a horrible offense for a horse.
In fact, it's deadly aggressive behavior
(23:55):
and it's progressive behavior.
So biting behavior, aggressive behavior
began a long time ago in that horsewith napping, putting his lips on you,
then slipping leads to nipping,nipping leads to biting,
and bitingis the most dominant behavior of horses.
(24:16):
It's also the mostdeadly behavior of horses.
So it is something that always
should be met with severe punishment
because biting is progressive
and because it ultimately leadsto deadly behavior
and because incorrigible fightersoften are euthanized.
(24:41):
It is a behavior
that is definitely worthy of punishment.
And punishment discouragesthat response from happening.
And is an unpleasant action.
Let's say it was a smack with your
with your hand across the muzzle
(25:01):
in and it is in retributionfor an offense,
an extremely offensive behavior.
So there are very,very few actual behaviors of horses
that warrant punishment.
Biting is
is really the main one.
I can think of aggressive behaviorin general.
(25:26):
But let's say, you know, the horse,
you're trying to pick up a horse'shind feet and he kicks at you.
You can't punish kicking cause he'll justkick the snot out of you harder.
So biting or somethingis a punishable offense.
It is an aggression.
(25:46):
It is an invasion of your space.
And it isbecause it is such a dangerous behavior.
It has to be metwith that kind of pressure.
So the truth is that
punishment has very little place
in the training of a horseother than biting, as I mentioned.
(26:08):
And this is something that we have to
work with young horseson, particularly stud colt,
because it's a natural urgefor them to want to put their mouth
on everything and explore their worldwith their lips and biting.
But punishment really
(26:28):
should only be used in the case of extremeand dangerous behavior.
Punishment is actually provento be ineffective
in the training of horses for performance
since horses are fear based animals
and punishmentgenerally leads to more fear.
It doesn't really work.
So imagine if I were training a horsefor performance Under Saddle
(26:53):
and I cut it to Canter for the last lead
and it accidentally took the right leadand I punished it for that.
I start out withan add jerking spur in it.
That horse would never
learn to respond properly to the cue.
I'm giving it to the setup.
I'm giving it for the lastly canter
(27:14):
because a horse that is afraidcan't learn.
So a horse must be totally free of fearin order to learn.
So think about flight.
When horses are in flight,no learning is occurring.
It's only once they stop flightand they turn around, look to see
what's going on in their environment,that learning will be occurring.
(27:35):
So getting back to reinforcementthen, reinforcement
is is something that you addto the equation
that will make a responsemore likely to occur next time.
The really interesting thing about horses
is that once a horse understandsyour willingness to reinforce
(28:00):
reinforcement, it's generallyno longer needed, as I mentioned before.
So when you
give a cue,
there needs to be
the horse needs to be given about a second
a second and a halfat the most in order to respond.
(28:23):
And then reinforcementshould come immediately.
In the case of a trained horse,that's generally
going to meanjust an escalation of the cue.
But you need to escalate immediately
to the amount of pressurethat motivates change in the horse.
A gradual escalation of cue
(28:43):
over a long period of timedoes nothing but train the horse
and sort of train him to ignore you.
Now, let's say
your horse has developed a behaviorthat you don't like.
Maybe he's learned and some naughtiness.
(29:04):
Maybe you have
fallen down on the jobin terms of reinforcing in the past
and your horse has learned to ignore cues,or your horse has learned to break gait
or your horse has learnedto stop at the gate,
cut corners, come into the middle,
(29:26):
not cross
the puddle or not go in the creek,whatever your horse has learned
that he can get away with
and you think to yourself, punishment
is walking him up to this puddleand he won't go.
(29:46):
I could whip him until he goes, I suppose,but that feels uncomfortable to me.
It feels like using punishmentand training,
and we know that punishmentcan create fear in a horse,
and I don't want to increase a horse'sfear level.
So what can we do instead of punishment?
So what we know about horsesscientifically is that
(30:09):
if there is a behaviorthat we do not like in a horse,
that it's far better to usea concept called replacement training
than it is to use punishment.
Replacementtraining means that you simply replace
the undesirable behaviorwith another, more desirable behavior.
(30:34):
It's far more effective than punishment
and basically you can think of replacementtraining in this way.
Horse Every time you dothat, I'm going to do this
and every time you do that, I'mgoing to do this.
You can count on that.
And I'm going to do ituntil every time you think of doing that.
(30:55):
You prepare for me to do this,
and then I've replacedone behavior with another.
Let me give you an example.
Let's say I havea horse that's learned to cut the corners
in the arena badlyso that every time I go around
the size of my arena is getting smallerand smaller and smaller.
It's because he's cutting all four corners
(31:18):
So here's what I'm going to do.
I'm going to ride my horseon a slightly loose rein,
and I'm going to put him on the rail,go down the long
side of the arena, and I'm goingto sort of neutralize my reins.
In other words, I'm not steering him.
I'm not holding him on the rail.
(31:38):
And I'm going to wait until the moment
that he intentionally veers off the railtowards the center
in an effort to cut the corner.
And then I'm going to immediately shorten
my outside reinand turn him right in to the fence.
I'll go a few strides down the fence
and then I'll shorten my other reinand turn him in to the fence again.
(32:04):
And then we'll go straight down the fence
on a loose rein with a neutralized rein.
And I'll wait for my horseto take the action
of turning unauthorized,
cutting the corner towards the middle,and then I'll shorten that outside rein,
turn him immediately into the fence,go down the fence a little ways, shorten
(32:28):
the other Rein, turn him immediatelyinto the fence again and try it again.
And so what I'm doingis allowing the horse
to take the action of cutting the cornerwhere
he thinks he ought to be able to turn,which is, by the way,
going against the grainof what we trained horses, which is to
(32:50):
continue on this path until I tell youto do something different.
Now, when you have horse cutting corners,you have a horse is sort of cheating.
He's making his own decisions.
So if every time I sense
that the horse is taking that action,I immediately shorten the reign,
(33:10):
turn him abruptly into the fence,go back the other way, on the fence,
and then shorten the other wayand turn him into the fence again
and start all over in very short order.
If the timing is goodand the pressure is adequate,
every time your horseeven thinks about cutting the corner,
(33:33):
he'll pick his shoulders upand continue down the rail
in preparationfor you turning him into the fence.
And that's what that's a perfect exampleof what replaced what training is.
It's very effective in retraining a horse
that has learned naughty tricks
in keepingwith the subject of reinforcement.
(33:57):
It's also important for you to understandthe difference
between positive reinforcementand negative reinforcement.
This is another huge area of confusion
for people, and often the same people
that think it's wrong to usepunishment and training
(34:18):
and that are confusing
or conflating reinforcementwith punishment.
They often think negative reinforcementis punishment and it's not.
That's a totally inaccurate view
of positive and negative reinforcement.
You can think of
(34:40):
reinforcement, positiveand negative reinforcement as either
adding somethingor taking something away So
a positive reinforcement
is, for example, a food based reward.
So in the case of a food based reward,
you have to wait for the horseto give the proper response
(35:03):
that you wish to reward,and then you give them the food as
a way of adding something to the equationas a reinforcement
negative, a negative reinforcement
refers to taking away something.
And in the case of training horses,what you're taking away is pressure.
(35:25):
So because as I mentioned earlier,
horses are highly,highly sensitive animals.
And because they're prey animalsand flight animals,
they feel all sorts of pressure very,very keenly.
They feel physical pressure,they feel mental pressure,
(35:45):
they feel all sorts of environmentalpressure very, very keenly.
And they see a cessation of pressure.
That sort of means that they're safeand in a cocoon, if you will.
So it
turns out that the application of pressure
(36:06):
and the taking away of pressure
as a negative reinforcer
is a highly, highly effectivemeans of training a horse,
because, number one, they feel pressureso keenly, they're so sensitive.
So, in other words,they will detect the slightest,
slightest movement as pressureSo if I barely
(36:29):
touch my legs or close out
or if I barely flex a finger or shift
my balance slightly forward or
back, the horse feels it very keenly.
We always use the example of a flylanding on his hair coat
and his abilityto be able to shake that one little muscle
(36:50):
that gets that fly offof that part of his hair coat.
That's how sensitive horsesare to pressure.
And so in in terms of training a horsefor performance either on the ground
or under saddle because as they respond
to such slight amounts of pressure,
the release of pressure isis the most effective training means.
(37:14):
So a negative reinforcement simply meansyou take something away from the equation.
And so in the case of negativereinforcement being the primary means
that we train horses with,it is because we apply pressure
such as a leg
cue a light like you and the horse learnsthat when he moves forward
(37:36):
in response to that pressure,the pressure will go away.
And he learns that almost instantaneously.
The very first time that it occurs.
So it turns out that negativereinforcement
is not a bad thingand certainly not punishment in any way.
But it's one of the most effectivemeans of training horses.
(37:57):
The release of pressure is the reward.
Now, the this is a good example
also of why amateur ridershave such a hard time
keeping a horse in a proper frameand a collective frame.
Because what happens iswhen the horse comes into frame,
(38:21):
the first thing that happens is
they don't release the pressurewhen the horse comes there.
So the horse won't stay therebecause he doesn't find a release
of pressure there.
And the second thing isthat when the horse comes out of frame,
he he often doesfind a release of pressure there
because he comes
(38:43):
he lifts his head upand he puts slack in the rain.
So he finds hisown release of pressure. So
this application of
pressure and the release of pressurein the training of the horse
is highly effectiveas long as the rider is in control.
And in command of
(39:03):
when they are releasing the pressureand when they're adding pressure,
it's important for you to understand
the difference between a Qand A reinforcement.
A Q is a signal
or a communique from the rider
using any or all of the riders aids.
(39:24):
So the riders natural aids are the seat,
legs, hands and voice, and we'reconstantly using all of those aids.
Your seat, legs, hands and voicein order to communicate to the horse
what you want them to go,how you want to move his body,
how you control all parts of his body,the direction, the speed.
(39:44):
So a cue is a signal, and
the horse learns what the proper responseto that signal is.
Reinforcement supportsthe cue and is used in order
to clarify the horse's response.
So let's take the example of reins.
(40:06):
Reins in spite of what?
90% of riders think and do,
reins are not a cueing device.
They're actually a reinforcement device.
So less you see example of stopping
for most riders.
If you say, what's the cue to stop,they say pull back on the reins
(40:30):
and that's wrong.
The cue to stop is when you exhale,
shift your center of gravity back
and plant your seat, seatbeltsinto the saddle,
releasing leg pressure off the horse.
If the horse does not stop,you would shorten your reins
(40:51):
and then reapply the AIDS, this time
with ringpressure as reinforcement to the cue
and in that way, the cue to
stop is a shift of your weightand the use of your seat.
Maybe you used a exhaleand a vocal cue as well,
and if the horse did not stop youthen use the reins.
(41:15):
The cue comes from your seat and voice
the reins are reinforcement to the cue
if the horse does not respond.
So when the reins are usedstrictly as reinforcement
and not as the cue,the horse learns to stop properly off
your seat aidand he learns it really fast.
(41:37):
Let's take the exampleof cueing a horse to turn.
If I'm riding the horse straight forward,
then my hands are reaching forward.
Well, in front of the saddle
reaching for the horse's mouth.
I'm looking straight ahead.
My shoulders are square ahead.
I'm sitting squarely on my to seat bones.
(42:00):
And as I give the cue to turn what I do,
just imagine
that you're sitting on that horsegoing straight.
And I also kind of imagine that you havea neck brace on or a body cast on.
And so all you're going to do to turnthat horse
is turn and look, but you're going to
(42:22):
keep your chin in alignmentwith your sternum.
So you're going to open your shouldersin the turn.
The connectivity with your armsand your torso
causes your arms to shift.
So let's say I'm turning right.
So I'm going to turn and openmy shoulders to the right,
(42:42):
allow my arms to come to the right,allow my outside leg to close
and my inside leg to open as my hipsslightly turn to the right.
All of those things in my arms
in my seat bones and in my legs.
And then whereand in the way my balance shifts,
(43:04):
all of those things are the cue to turn
if the horse
ignores my cue to turn and continuesgoing straight,
then I would simply bump the inside rein.
I would take just a little touch,a brief touch, or a brief bump
of the insiderein on the lip of the horse's mouth
(43:27):
in order to reinforce that cue
that I just gave with my body to turn.
So again,the cue to turn came from my body
the reinforcement, if the horse did notrespond, came from the reins.
So your reins are not a queuing device.
They are for reinforcement.
(43:49):
The cues should come before that.
Horses learn that
if they respond to the cue,the reinforcement won't come.
So the greatest reward to the horse comeswhen he feels you shift your body,
he feels you slowlyrotate your body into the turn
and he turns with you.
(44:10):
Therefore, reinforcement never comes andyou never touch his mouth with the reins.
So he now learnsthat all he has to do is move with you
and he won't get pressure on his mouth.
So now we have a horsethat turns off body cues
and both the horse and the rider benefit
(44:32):
so in summary of
all this information,and I know it's a lot of information,
but really when you break it downin this way, the difference between
reward reinforcement between cues
and reinforcement difference, brainreinforcement of punishment.
If you think about all these thingsand the natural qualities of horse
(44:54):
that make these certain qualitiesof learning
certain responses to pressure et cetera,
the horse is very uniqueand in many, many ways.
And if you take all thatinto consideration,
the main thing I want you to consider
(45:15):
is that when we are unclear to horses,it is unkind,
unclear is unkind.
And by that,
what I mean is allowing a horse to develop
obnoxious or unsafe behaviors
because we are reluctantto reinforce a cue,
(45:40):
because we are inadvertently
giving rewards to the horsefor bad behavior,
because we think
that reinforcementis punishment and punishment is bad.
All of these things create
a lack of clarity for the horse.
(46:03):
What horses love most
is routine and consistency
and clear expectations
and clear ramification actions.
It's the comfort they get from knowing
what's going to happen that they love.
So inconsistent reinforcement to a horse
(46:25):
allowing a horse to one time
get away with something and the next timeget mad at him because he does it.
That kind of inconsistent reinforcement
is very disconcerting to a horse
and it is not kind.
This is how horses develop
bad behaviorsand there are many behaviors of horses
(46:46):
that can develop to the pointwhere the horse becomes dangerous
or the horse becomes so unpleasant
to be aroundthat nobody wants that horse anymore.
You can't give that horse away.
He's he's learned so many bad behaviorsor he's so unsafe
that he just can't be trustedto be around people.
(47:10):
And that kind of
horse ends up in a rescue andand they don't always survive that trip.
So there's there's a lot of reallygreat horses out there in the world.
And if we have allowed a horse to develop
very unsafe
behaviors, resources are not going to beput into that horse in the future.
(47:32):
And he could give up in ain a very tragic circumstance.
So all of that is to say, being unclear toa horse is unkind.
You need to understand
what reinforcement is, how to use it.
And hopefully now you have
a better understanding of the differencebetween cues and reinforcement,
(47:54):
the difference between reinforcementand punishment
when punishment is appropriateand when it's not knowing
how and why horses respond
and knowing how they learnhow they make associations.
All of that is critical to your success
as a trainer, whether you like it or not.
(48:16):
Any time you work with a horse, you'reeither training it or on training it.
I hope this podcast has helpedyou find more clarity
in your training with your horse.
If so, I'd love to hear your commentsabout this subject.
If not, I'd like to hear themto how I might
be able to be more clear myself and helpyou understand a little bit better.
(48:39):
So please leave me a commentat really good night dot com slash podcast
And now it's time for my favorite segment.
What the hey Q&A.
(49:00):
Each month we pick a few unique questions
from our listenersand answer them on the air.
If you'd like to submit a written questionfor what the Hey,
please go to my Facebook page.
Julie GoodnightHorsemanship or email podcast
at Julie Goodnight dot com.
By the way,we keep all your questions in the queue.
(49:22):
So even if I've not answered the question
you submitted yet,I hope to get to it soon.
Or maybe I'll turn your questioninto the main topic
for a future podcast,which I've been known to do.
So please stay tunedOur first question comes from Debra
via Facebook Messenger.
(49:44):
I just found your podcast
and I'm having some troublewith trailer loading.
As you explained in the episode,I just listened to a young horse
having repetitive bad experienceswith an activity.
Sets it up for having higher anxietyrelated to that activity.
My horse has not had any positive trailerloading experiences,
(50:08):
and she has only loadedabout 12 times in her life.
I chose her before birth,
so I've had her her whole life
OK, Debra.
Well, 12 bad experiences is
not uncommon.
(50:30):
For sure, but if you think about it
as 12 to nothing.
If you think about thatbeing a soccer game,
that seems a little foreboding.
So one thing that has to occur
is that the horse has to have at least 12
(50:52):
positive training experiences
before you could even remotely hopeto have that score.
Back to zero.
But sadly, the truth
is, for every negative experiencea horse has,
you'reprobably going to need to have multiple
(51:12):
positive experiences to overcome that.
So then if you think about having
about 12 negative experiences, it may mean
you need to have 3640, 50
positive experienceswith that horse in the trailer.
So I think that dependingon the techniques that you use
(51:35):
and if you just can make sure that
in proceeding forward that
there are no longer any negative
training experiences
regarding the trailer.
So you're going to have to back way upobviously and start from the beginning
(51:57):
and first of all,I think it's important to understand
that there are alwaysgoing to be different steps.
So the very first thing that has to occur
is that you have to train the horseto load in the trailer.
In that process, you're also going to be
training it to unload because
particularlyif you use that my techniques,
(52:20):
you're going to be loading itand unloading it many, many times
before you ever take it anywhere.
And that brings up the firstand most important point.
You can't train a horse for trailer
loading when you have to go somewhere.
So this has to be dedicatedtraining unrelated
(52:41):
to transporting a horse anywhere.
So I need a trailer, a safe trailer
that's appropriately sized for the horse.
I need a
tow vehicle to be hooked up to it.
So that it's in a secure location
and I need to be able to move it
(53:03):
strategically.
So I often recommendif if the horse particularly
has had bad trailer loading experience
that we try to back that
trailer into a corner of solid fencing
or a corner of the barn
and a solid wall or a solid fence
(53:27):
so that the horse is feelingsomewhat confined
between the barn or the walland the trailer.
That limits his optionsa lot and helps a lot.
By the way, there is a ton of information
on my website about trailer loading.
(53:47):
If you're a subscriberto my training library,
there are multiple videos on the subject.
I also have a training
video that you
can purchase called StressFree Trailer Ring,
and you can get eitherthe DVD or the digital version,
(54:07):
and it will take youthrough all these steps.
And I don't have time to dotalk about the specific techniques now.
But first you need to trainthat horse to load.
Then if you use my techniquesin very short order,
that horse will be willingly marchingstraight forward into the trailer.
(54:31):
And backing calmly out of the trailer.
You'll be giving him a little rewardevery time he gets in,
so he'll start thinking of that as fun.
The next stage, onceI've trained the horse to load and unload
and he's doing that fine,the trailer is never moved.
The next stage is to feed that horse
(54:52):
in the trailer twice a day for a week.
So when you're in that trailer, hooked up,leaving it in the place where
he knows it to be
every morning at
the time I show up at the barn,I love my horse in the trailer.
I might hang out with himwhile he eats his brain and hay
(55:14):
for the first little bit.
But after two or three days of that,
the horse is totally equating the traileras an all you can eat buffet.
And so after three or four days,you're getting him out of the stall or pan
and he's like dragging youtowards the trailer
because he's now thinks of itas an all you can eat salad bar.
(55:37):
So that's the second stageand then the third stage is going to be
to actually startmoving the horse in the trailer.
So we shot him
and I've been shutting him in, by the way,during that whole feeding process.
The next thing we're going to dois take him, take him on some short trips,
and we're going to give him lots across,lots of positive reinforcement.
(56:01):
We're never going to bribe the horseto get into the trailer.
That will never work.
But you're going
to have to put a lot of work into this
because of all the negativetraining experiences the horse has had.
And by the way, when I have taken horsesthat have had horrible
(56:22):
training experiences or horribleexperiences, period, with a horse trailer,
we generally have them loading upreally, really well
within a day or two, within the first dayor two of working with them.
And so we jump right into the feeding
in the trailer twicea day, every day for a week.
(56:44):
We're doing that within just a few days.
And it's ayeah, it's a big investment and time,
but it's well worth it to get to that,
even out that score to get your scoremore to the 12 to 50 range.
So that's what I would do.
It's very, very doable.
People want instant fixes,and you're not going to find
(57:06):
that particularlywhen it comes to trailer loading.
But that's what I would do.
So be sure to check out my resourcesonline.
Just go to sign in.
Dot Julie Good night dotcom and you'll have access to the academy
and you'll find all that information there
(57:27):
Our second question comes from Heather.
She says, Hi, Julie.
I just listened to a recent podcast
and would like to ask a question for whatthe hey Q&A.
I have a Mustang.
I Chantal is very smart and willing,
but has a very strong personality.
(57:47):
Maybe from being gelded so late.
How do I handle it when he losesfocus and gets overexcited?
What are some good exercisesI can do to teach him to focus on me?
He has great focus.
Unless there are other horses aroundthat are acting up,
he will whinnyand his attention is 95% on them.
(58:10):
He doesn't respect my presencewhen he is in this mindspace.
Thank you. Heather.
Well, Heather
these are excellent observationsthat you have made.
I can totally picturethis scene, and I will say that
although all horses are capableof acting this way,
(58:33):
certainly some horses are more proneto this kind of behavior than others.
And certainly mustangs that have run wild,
they theirinstinctive behavior of all kinds
is much strongerand much keener than domestic horses.
And so obviously a a
(58:56):
Mustang or feral horse that was running
while old that then became rounded up.
And that then has experiencedall different sorts
of force herd situations and gelded late.
All of those were certainly combinedto make that horse
highly, highly distractable.
And the the point being that it doesn'thave to be a Mustang and it doesn't
(59:22):
even have to be a horse that was geldedlate or it even a male horse.
Some horses are just more easilydistracted by other horses than others.
They have stronger herd
draw.
Herd behaviors are more importantand more significant to them.
So what do we do withthat highly distracted horse?
(59:44):
I like to
first of all, when I have a horseis highly distracting
and highly distressedby the actions of other horses.
I have learned to think about thatat least
in part as a mental health problem.
This is a stress problem, a focus problem,
a distraction problem.
(01:00:06):
And we need to teach the horse
ways of coping with his anxiety.
So I always immediatelyteach the horse a head down
to any timethat horse starts getting amped up.
I then immediatelyput him into the head down position.
It's not physiologically possible for him
to be excited or tensewhen he's had his down.
(01:00:29):
And in very short order.
Any time a horse gets excited
if you cause him to put his head down,
this is a good example of replacementtraining.
In very short order,he will start doing that himself.
So any time he gets excited,he will just take a deep breath
and put his head downas a way of calming himself down.
(01:00:52):
So I'm going
to use that as one of many tools
for redirecting this horse's focus.
The other other things I am going to doare through proactive training.
So whenever a horse loses
his focus on me,I want to immediately put him to work,
(01:01:12):
whether that's on the groundor in the saddle,
we're going to immediatelystart doing something
go forward, turn right,turn left, go faster,
try to circle, trot,try to circle the other way.
Go over here, go over there.
Stop back up turn right, turn left.
A lot of changes of direction,a lot of cues to speed up and work.
(01:01:35):
So the more I am giving him cues, cues
that he knows,the more he has to focus on me.
And I will keep him busy and workinghard until I feel like he is
really running out of oxygen.
And and also, most importantly,
until I feel his focus come back on me.
(01:01:56):
And when it does come back on me,I will allow him to rest.
So when I am working with a horse,whether on the ground or in the saddle,
I give the horse basically two options.
Option number one, focus on me.
Option number two, focus on nothingYou don't have the choice
(01:02:18):
of focusing on everything elsein your environment.
You don't get to turn your nose.
And look, it'svery important that you understand
having no control on your horse.
I have written a lot about that.
So go to sign in Dot Julie good night.
Dot com.
You can sign up for a free membership appand you can read until you're exhausted
(01:02:39):
about establishing nosecontrol on a horse.
That's a big part of his distractibility.
So keeping the horse's nose contained,asking him to put his head down
when he gets excited, keeping him busy
when he's distracted giving him rapid fire
cues, causing him to work
(01:03:01):
hard, change directionsa lot, allowing him to rest
when he's focused on meor focused on nothing.
And if you do those things in very shortorder,
you will have the focus of this horseSo good luck with that, Heather.
Our third
and final question todaycomes from Jennifer via email.
(01:03:24):
She says, Hello, Julie.
During episode number 71 of RideOn, you said
Even a dominanthorse is looking for leadership.
This really spoke to me.
My 13 year old off the track, Standardbredgelding is a very strong leader.
(01:03:44):
Internal, dominating every herd he's with
through many hours of ground work
and tipsI've learned from your videos and podcast
I've established myself as his leader,
so he has excellent ground manners
and is respectful with me and otherswho handle him.
(01:04:04):
But I often wonder whyhe allows my leadership
when he is so strongand dominant with other horses.
Can you explain that concepta little more and expand on how
training a dominant horse might requiredifferent strategies and tactics?
Thank you, Jennifer.
(01:04:26):
Jennifer,again, these are very astute questions,
and I'm so appreciate the fact thatyou have gotten a handle on this horse
and that you've recognized thathe actually appreciates your leadership.
And also,thank you for listening to my podcast.
And I'm so glad to hear
that you've gotten some tipsthat have helped you in your training.
(01:04:50):
That's sort of what it's all about.
So you, you you validate my purpose there.
So thank you for that.
Now, listen, no matter how dominant
a horse seems, any horse likes
feeling secureand likes not having to think.
(01:05:11):
I often say that thinkingis not the best sport of a horse.
He has to work really hard to problemsolve.
He's very quick and easy
to worry about things and worry
about making decisions and issuesin this environment.
So not having to thinkand when things are the same
(01:05:35):
and when a leader can be trustedto take care of you
and to always have your backand to be consistent and comportment
to be consistent and expectations,
reinforcement, rewards
that is reassuring to any horse,no matter how dominant.
Also, keep in mindthat sometimes when horses
(01:05:58):
are acting in a dominant manner, doesn'treally mean that they're a dominant horse,
and it certainly doesn't meanthat they're a truly alpha horse.
Remember the alpha horse is that horse
that's at the top of the pecking order.
But a truly alpha horse is calmand confident
(01:06:21):
and doesn't really have to be the leader.
But a horse can display
dominant behaviorseven when he's not an alpha horse,
because in any relationship
between horsesor between horses and people,
it's linear.
So one of you is dominant.
(01:06:42):
One of you is subordinate.
And any time the leader of a herd
falls down on their leadership dies,
gets struck by lightning, disappears,what have you.
Another horse immediately
takes over as leaderbecause there always has to be a leader.
(01:07:03):
So in the absence of leadership,another horse
will take over as the leaderand start displaying dominant tendencies.
But that doesn't mean that by nature,that horse is truly dominant horse.
Let me give you the example of a horseI've been working with recently
that belongs to my good friendand neighbor.
(01:07:23):
This horse Jimmy had through a
series of mishandling had become
extremely dominant, was acting invery dominant ways, very pushy, refusing
to do stuff he was trying to do,shouldering into slinging his head at you,
(01:07:45):
dragging you around,ripping the rope and running away.
And he was displayingincreasingly dominant behavior
in such a mannerthat he seemed like a dominant horse.
But once we put him into trainingand we started giving him
regimented training,reminding him of the previous training
(01:08:07):
he had creating very strict
expectations of his behaviors,
which were consistent with the waysthat he had been trained in the past.
He immediately became a docile horse,
and he immediately became a very content,
relaxed, subordinate horse.
(01:08:27):
He didn't have to be dominated over time.
He immediately capitulated in the presenceof strong leadership.
And then he became very soft,
very compliant, very willing,
and very ingratiated to the leadershipthat he had
(01:08:48):
So to me, that was not a dominant horsethat we had to over dominate.
That was a horse that had learned to act
in increasingly dominant waysbecause of a void of leadership.
So it could be that your horse isthe same way
and horses will always seek leadership,even the most dominant horse,
(01:09:12):
and they will always gladly acceptleadership when it is true leadership
that is consistentand trustworthy and confident
and all those things that horsesfind great comfort in.
So congratulations, Jennifer, you have
been able to display that
kind of leadership to your horseand he gladly accept your leadership.
(01:09:34):
So that's excellent.
And you've done a good job.
And I'm so happy to hear that I could help
in any way
That's all the questionswe have time for today.
I love sharing my horse careand training experience with you,
(01:09:57):
and I appreciate all of your feedback,suggestions and questions.
And I'd love to hear what topics interestyou the most.
So if you have questions for whatthe hay or podcast topics
you'd like me to address, pleasemessage me on Facebook at Julie Goodnight
or email podcast at Julie Good Nikon.
(01:10:19):
And here are a few tips for youif you want your question answered on
the air.
I would greatly appreciate itif you would keep your question concise
and please proofread before hitting send.
Next month on my podcastwe'll cover another horsemanship topic
to expand your knowledgeand help make your horse life better.
(01:10:40):
Remember, please subscribeso you don't miss a single episode
and pleaseinvite your equestrian friends to join us.
You can find this podcaston every platform.
And don't forget to check out my onlinemembership programs.
You'll find the solutions you needwhen you need them.
You can subscribe to my fulltraining library with hundreds of videos,
(01:11:04):
audios and articles,all of it searchable content.
Or you can enroll in a horsemanshipshort course on building confidence
or join at the premier levelthe Interactive Academy
where you receive a 12 month trainingcurriculum for you and your horse,
plus personalized coaching from me.
Just go to Julie.
(01:11:24):
Good night dot com.
Slash join and start your ride now.
No matter where you arein your horsemanship journey,
whether you're new to horsesor an old hand,
whether you're training a green horseor refining your upper level skills,
I hope you found some helpful information
to help make your horse life better.
(01:11:47):
Thanks again for your awesome commentsand for the five star ratings.
This helps me out a lotand it helps us rise in the rankings.
So more horse lovers, just like youand me, can find this podcast
I'm Julie.
Goodnight.
Thank you for listeningand please stay safe and enjoy the ride.
You're an inspiration.
You were there to help me.
You just saw the need and said,Can I help you?
We learn a lot from watching other horsesand watching other riders.
I'm Julie.
Goodnightand thanks for listening to my podcast
about horsetraining and equestrian sports.
(00:24):
It's time for Ride On with Julie.
Goodnight
Since the last time we recorded,
I've been enjoying a breakfrom a pretty hectic travel season
this spring after traveling coastto Coast numerous times
and being a presenterat a bunch of different horse expos.
I'm actually ready for a break.
(00:46):
I've enjoyed being home more recently,
riding with my friendsand working in my garden.
I've got some big plans this summer.
I hope to do a little more boatingand fishing and some more mountain biking
in addition to my horse.
Fun, of course.
But latelywe've been dealing with some late season
(01:07):
snowstorms I can't complain too muchbecause it is husband
badly needed moistureand we'll take what we can get.
But it has made it ratherhard to believe that summer's almost here.
When you look outside and see four or fiveinches of snow on the ground in May.
(01:27):
But summer is coming.
It's just around the corner.
I have just one more public eventcoming up before
my summer break begins in earnest.
That's in June at the HarmonyEquine Center.
This is a fundraising horse expo,
and I'm super happy to be donating my timeto support the excellent work done there
(01:50):
by the Denver Dome Friends Leagueto support law enforcement
and their effortto protect at risk horses in our state.
My husband Reg is campaigning his horsethis summer.
So in addition to all my other fun,
I hope
to be attending a few of those eventswith him.
(02:11):
He's doing a series of ranchhorse competitions here in Colorado,
and convenientlythere's one of his competitions
is going on nearby the same weekend
as the Horse Expo, Harmony Equine.
So I will be able to travel with him,
(02:31):
get dropped off to do my thing,and then I'll be able to join him
and I will join himand hang out at the competition.
And I get to play groom and coachfor the weekend, so that'll be fun.
This fall, I have three more clinicsat the renowned Steel
ICU ranch in Granby, Colorado,and the last time I checked,
(02:54):
they still had openingsin all three clinics
I have the popular RanchRiding Adventure in September and October.
That's a four dayvery active riding program for adults only
Also in October is the five dayhorsemanship immersion program.
This is the ideal program for people
(03:15):
that want a learning vacation.
We will study all aspects of horsesand riding with seminars
and hands on workshops,plus trail riding in the Rocky Mountains,
luxurious accommodations and gourmetmeals.
I'll also be leading two writingtrips in Ireland this fall with Connemara
(03:36):
equestrian tours At last count,both of those tours were booked solid.
But it never hurtsto get on the waiting list.
So for more information on my clinics,the horse expos that I'll be doing
and the riding vacationsI'm offering, please visit Julie.
Good. Dicom Slash Events.
And while you're there,check out my online training resources,
(03:59):
curriculumsand personalized coaching programs.
Plus, we've got innovative groomingtools, tech bits,
training equipment,and videos at sharp dot.
Julie Good night dot com
Today's topic
(04:19):
is understanding the difference in reward
reinforcement and punishment.
You know, a horse is always learningfor better or for worse.
And the more you understandhow horses learn,
how they perceive rewardor reinforcement or punishment
(04:41):
and what those respective rolesof these training
tools are in shaping your horses behavior,
the more you know, the more effectiveyou will be as a trainer
and the more cohesive and responsiveyour horse will be.
Let's talk first about how horses learn.
First of all, it's importantto understand the nature of horses is
(05:03):
that they are extremely fastlearning animals.
This is sort of a factor of being
a prey animal and a flight animal
Their first instinct,of course, is to flee from danger.
But they can't stayin a constant state of flight.
So they need to be able to learnabout their environment rapidly
(05:26):
in order to make decisionson how to stay safe.
So horses and because they're
also extremely sensitive animals,
they detect changes in their environment,changes and pressure
changes in everything immediatelybecause of their sensitivity level.
So all of these kind of factorscome together to make them
(05:49):
really rapidly learning animals.
And for better or worse, I mean that
sometimes they learn thingswe wish they hadn't learned.
So horses primarily learnby making associations between one thing
and another.
For instance, when we're training
a horse to be writtenand one of the first cues that we have to
(06:11):
teach themis to move forward off our seat and legs.
And so we inhale, shift our centerof gravity slightly forward and start
maybe fluttering your
legs to add soft leg pressure.
And then the horse starts thinking,you know, what is that leg pressure?
(06:31):
What does it mean?
What do I do one or whatI have to do to make it stop.
And eventuallyhe'll he'll guess a number of things.
And eventually one of those thingswill be to move forward.
And the instant he moves forward,you stop moving your legs.
You take away the pressure,and he instantly learns that
the way he makesthat pressure go away is to go forward.
(06:56):
So he makes an association
between the movement of your legsand the movement of his legs.
So horses learn by making associationsbetween one thing and another.
And this is where our unintended
consequencescome in, because sometimes horses
(07:17):
make intended associationslike the one I just described,
but sometimes they make unintendedassociations.
Let's say the first time I asked a horse
to canter under saddle,
and he thought that felt a little funnyand he didn't like doing it,
so he got a little squeamishand maybe he a crow
(07:39):
hopped a little bitor threw a little buck.
And in an abundance of caution,
I immediately stopped the horse.
Now, my reason for stopping
was to gain more control of the horsebefore I tried that again.
But the horse could have
and almostcertainly did make an association
(08:00):
between his crow hoppingand the rider stopping him.
So he learned thatif he didn't like the feel of that,
all he had to do was crow hopand then he could stop.
So that would have beenan unintended association.
And we don't always get to knowwhen horses
(08:22):
have made associations.
Sometimes they're totally accidentaland unintended.
And not even known.
I jokingly use the example of
if you were walking by a mailboxat the moment, your horse got stung
by a bee and he happenedto be looking at the mailbox.
(08:44):
He might forever be afraid of mailboxesbecause he thinks he's
going to get stung by a beeevery time he looks at a mailbox.
So that could be an associationthat a horse made that
we never really understoodor knew or or realized.
And so as we train a horse,
(09:04):
we try to create these associationsbetween a cue and the horse's actions
but we don't always get to knowwhat associations the horse has made.
And sometimes because we give
inadvertent rewards to the horsewhen we didn't mean to.
Sometimes we actually are responsiblefor creating unintended associations
(09:28):
by taking away the pressure or otherwiserewarding the horse
for the wrong response.
So horses are very fast learners,and this means that they're both
easy to train and untrained.
You you really can't teach
something to a horse, but you can unravelwhat he's previously learned.
(09:50):
If if a horse had previously learned
really good fundamentalsand had a very strong work
ethic and was very responsiveand obedient to the age of the rider.
But then after, let's say,a month of being written by a rider
who was passive,who did not reinforce cues
(10:12):
or inappropriately reinforce cuesand gave inappropriate rewards
like stopping the horseor quitting on the horse
when the horse was not respondingproperly,
then the horse is learning the wrongthings.
He's on learning or on training or you're
you're unraveling his training.
(10:35):
So another interesting factor about horses
in terms of their trainingand how quickly they learn
and how quickly their training can unravel
is that horses are very relationshiporiented animals.
They therefore, their responses
(10:55):
are likely to be quite differentfrom one person to another.
So horses, particularly horsesthat I have had experience
with all different types of riders,
meaning they have been ridden both
by very expert ridersand very beginner riders
They start learning that different ridershave different parameters
(11:19):
and different ridershave different expectations.
Levels of attention, levelsof confidence, levels of determination.
And so a horse can learn over timethat not all riders are the same.
And they learn thatwith a certain type of passive rider,
(11:40):
they might be able to get away with thingsthat they wouldn't even think of trying
with a more experienced, more adept rider.
So horses are kind of funny animalsin that way.
Also, they're very attuned
to the emotionalityof the animals around them.
(12:01):
Again, this is a natural horse behavior.
Is so it's a part of being a herd animal.
It's a part of being a prey animal
and a flight animal.
So horses are biologically programed
to be very aware of
and in fact to mimic
(12:22):
the emotionalityof the animals around them.
But they're also because
they're herd animalsand they're very focused on herd
hierarchy and leadership and the control
and the deference that needs to occur
(12:44):
due to the hierarchyof the various individuals in the herd.
Horses are also extremely aware of
the confidencelevel of the animals around them,
the level of intention,the level of determination,
the level of aggression, the level ofpassive ness of the animals around them.
(13:06):
And this includes humans.
So as a rider, you and your horseor a herd of two or a team of two,
and your horse is extremely attunedto your emotionality,
including your level of intentionand your level of determination.
So because horses are fast learnersand they're very aware
(13:31):
and they treat each individualdifferently,
these things all factor into
how horses learn,how they create associations
and how they respondto various individuals.
When horses
have experiencewith different types of riders,
(13:51):
they learn to test the rider.
They learn to exploreand probe boundaries.
They learn to explore how quick a rider
is to use reinforcement.
And also they learn and are very attuned
(14:14):
to how much pressurea rider is willing to use.
And in that reinforcement.
Horses are very very keen on this stuff
and is it's interesting that
when you reach a level
of confidence in your ridingand a skill level
(14:36):
where your reinforcementsto cues are precise
and with the perfect amount of pressureto motivate change
and the release of pressure,it's instantaneous and complete
Horses
learn that about you really fast,and then they never question.
(14:56):
And again, they never question your cue.
They never they never question
whether reinforcement is going to comebecause they know it will.
And so the funny thing about that is oncea horse learns that about you as a rider,
that you are willing to use reinforcement
and you will use it in a timelyand consistent manner
(15:18):
and you will always use an adequate amountof pressure to motivate change,
then you will never have to use that
pressure again because the horse knowsthat he learns that about you.
And once the lessons learned,it doesn't generally come up again.
So horses are really funny this way.
They're very fast, fast learners.
(15:40):
Now, let's talk for a minuteabout what horses perceive as reward.
It's not always what people think it is.
It's certainly not food
Horses love treats,
and they could certainly associate it
with a certain actionor behavior or response.
(16:02):
And that's
what we call positive reinforcement.
I'll get into that more, more later.
But because horses are
highly sensitive animals that feel
all sorts of pressure, very, very keenly,what horses
(16:22):
perceive most and greatest as a rewardis a complete cessation of pressure.
This is mental pressurephysical pressure, environmental pressure,
all types of pressure.
They they seek out
zero pressure.
They also, along the same
(16:45):
lines, value, rest as a reward.
So a flight animal
highly values his rest
and he is sort of programed
to want to conserve his energyin case it's needed for flight.
Horses perceive praise as a
(17:05):
reward, just a stroke on the neck, a kind
word, a soft whisper
I would say a cessation of pressureand rest
always comes before praise.
But the main reason that horses lovepraise
is because horses as herdanimals always seek acceptance.
(17:27):
You've seen that again and again and againany time you've tried to
introduce a new horse into an existingherd of horses, you know that
that new horse is instinctively driven
to be accepted into the herd.
He equates acceptance into the herdwith survival.
So horses
(17:49):
always seek acceptance and praise.
Your praise isan indication of your acceptance.
If your horse thinks of youas the leader of the herd.
And I like for my horses to think of me
as the supreme leaderof the entire universe.
(18:10):
And that way they for surethink of me as the leader of the herd.
And if they think of you as the leader,
then they are constantly seekingyour acceptance and approval.
So praise is very meaningfulto them in that circumstance.
Praise is, of course, only meaningfulwhen it's earned
And horses know the difference.
(18:30):
So, you know, just lavishinglove and kisses on a horse
that's done nothing to earn it.
Or doesn't even look up to youas the leader gets you nothing,
because you know thatthat doesn't mean anything to him.
But if he looks up to you as the leaderand if he knows you to be a benevolent
(18:51):
leader and to always recognize and rewardand take good care of him,
keep him safeand let him rest when he deserves it,
then he is seeking your acceptance always.
So praise becomes very meaningful.
As I mentioned just a moment ago,
(19:12):
we want to always becareful of food based rewards for horses.
It really doesn't have much placein the training
of a riding horse or two or three.
It really has very little placein the training of horses at all.
The only time I wouldI would routinely use a food based
(19:32):
reward for a horse would be after ahorse is loaded into a trailer.
I would never use food as a bribefor any kind of behavior.
But after a horse has gotten in a trailer,
it's a nice little reinforcement,positive reinforcement,
and makes them think of the traileras a happy place.
(19:53):
But other than that,I would be very cautious of using
any kind of foodbased reward in the training of horses.
And keep in mind that a horse works first
and foremostfor a cessation of all pressure.
That means from the pit.
That means from your legs.That means from your seat.
That means
the mentalpressure that you put on the horse.
(20:15):
He always seeks to rest.
So that is almost always goingto be perceived as a reward for a horse.
And then your praise and acceptance.
The next thing I'd like to talk about,it's really important for you
to have success in training a horse
both on the ground and under saddle.
(20:38):
And this is the difference between
reinforcement and punishment.
I notice as I doclinics around the country,
this is something I've noticedfor a very long time
that people have,
particularly peoplethat are new to horses,
(20:58):
have a a lot of confusion
between reinforcement and punishment.
A lot of people are reluctant
to reinforce a cuebecause they think of it as punishment.
They're confusing it with punishment,and they don't want to enter
(21:19):
into a kind of relationshipwith the horse where or things
where it involves punishment
and in many ways that are smart.
But if you're confusing, reinforceman and punishment
and then you don't want to punish,you're never going to get anywhere
with a horse because a horse
(21:41):
won't really respond to cues
until he understands thatthere will be reinforcement if he does.
So what is the differencebetween reinforcement of punishment?
It's very simple. It'svery black and white.
Reinforcement makes a response
more likely to occur
(22:04):
punishment discourages a response
So in other words,if I'm trying to teach a horse
a cue, let's sayit's the aforementioned leg.
Q When I gently flutter my legs,
that means you should move your feet
(22:26):
or move your feet faster
than and as soon as you do,I will release that pressure.
So if
I ask my horse to move forward by,I inhale or reach forward
shift my way forward and start fluttering
my legs and nothing happens.
(22:47):
And so I then immediately
clock and I
maybe just bump a little bit with my legs
instead of just touch my legsas reinforcement to the cue.
Then the horse learnsto respond to the cue.
(23:08):
So in that case,an escalation of the pressure
made the response more likely to occur.
The escalation of leg pressureand the clock and adding of that
audible pressurewas the reinforcement to the cue
and made the responsemore likely to occur next time
(23:32):
Punishment discourages a response,
and it is actually punishment
is an unpleasant action.
Which is in retribution for an offense.
Let's take, for
example, Buiding,which is a horrible offense for a horse.
In fact, it's deadly aggressive behavior
(23:55):
and it's progressive behavior.
So biting behavior, aggressive behavior
began a long time ago in that horsewith napping, putting his lips on you,
then slipping leads to nipping,nipping leads to biting,
and bitingis the most dominant behavior of horses.
(24:16):
It's also the mostdeadly behavior of horses.
So it is something that always
should be met with severe punishment
because biting is progressive
and because it ultimately leadsto deadly behavior
and because incorrigible fightersoften are euthanized.
(24:41):
It is a behavior
that is definitely worthy of punishment.
And punishment discouragesthat response from happening.
And is an unpleasant action.
Let's say it was a smack with your
with your hand across the muzzle
(25:01):
in and it is in retributionfor an offense,
an extremely offensive behavior.
So there are very,very few actual behaviors of horses
that warrant punishment.
Biting is
is really the main one.
I can think of aggressive behaviorin general.
(25:26):
But let's say, you know, the horse,
you're trying to pick up a horse'shind feet and he kicks at you.
You can't punish kicking cause he'll justkick the snot out of you harder.
So biting or somethingis a punishable offense.
It is an aggression.
(25:46):
It is an invasion of your space.
And it isbecause it is such a dangerous behavior.
It has to be metwith that kind of pressure.
So the truth is that
punishment has very little place
in the training of a horseother than biting, as I mentioned.
(26:08):
And this is something that we have to
work with young horseson, particularly stud colt,
because it's a natural urgefor them to want to put their mouth
on everything and explore their worldwith their lips and biting.
But punishment really
(26:28):
should only be used in the case of extremeand dangerous behavior.
Punishment is actually provento be ineffective
in the training of horses for performance
since horses are fear based animals
and punishmentgenerally leads to more fear.
It doesn't really work.
So imagine if I were training a horsefor performance Under Saddle
(26:53):
and I cut it to Canter for the last lead
and it accidentally took the right leadand I punished it for that.
I start out withan add jerking spur in it.
That horse would never
learn to respond properly to the cue.
I'm giving it to the setup.
I'm giving it for the lastly canter
(27:14):
because a horse that is afraidcan't learn.
So a horse must be totally free of fearin order to learn.
So think about flight.
When horses are in flight,no learning is occurring.
It's only once they stop flightand they turn around, look to see
what's going on in their environment,that learning will be occurring.
(27:35):
So getting back to reinforcementthen, reinforcement
is is something that you addto the equation
that will make a responsemore likely to occur next time.
The really interesting thing about horses
is that once a horse understandsyour willingness to reinforce
(28:00):
reinforcement, it's generallyno longer needed, as I mentioned before.
So when you
give a cue,
there needs to be
the horse needs to be given about a second
a second and a halfat the most in order to respond.
(28:23):
And then reinforcementshould come immediately.
In the case of a trained horse,that's generally
going to meanjust an escalation of the cue.
But you need to escalate immediately
to the amount of pressurethat motivates change in the horse.
A gradual escalation of cue
(28:43):
over a long period of timedoes nothing but train the horse
and sort of train him to ignore you.
Now, let's say
your horse has developed a behaviorthat you don't like.
Maybe he's learned and some naughtiness.
(29:04):
Maybe you have
fallen down on the jobin terms of reinforcing in the past
and your horse has learned to ignore cues,or your horse has learned to break gait
or your horse has learnedto stop at the gate,
cut corners, come into the middle,
(29:26):
not cross
the puddle or not go in the creek,whatever your horse has learned
that he can get away with
and you think to yourself, punishment
is walking him up to this puddleand he won't go.
(29:46):
I could whip him until he goes, I suppose,but that feels uncomfortable to me.
It feels like using punishmentand training,
and we know that punishmentcan create fear in a horse,
and I don't want to increase a horse'sfear level.
So what can we do instead of punishment?
So what we know about horsesscientifically is that
(30:09):
if there is a behaviorthat we do not like in a horse,
that it's far better to usea concept called replacement training
than it is to use punishment.
Replacementtraining means that you simply replace
the undesirable behaviorwith another, more desirable behavior.
(30:34):
It's far more effective than punishment
and basically you can think of replacementtraining in this way.
Horse Every time you dothat, I'm going to do this
and every time you do that, I'mgoing to do this.
You can count on that.
And I'm going to do ituntil every time you think of doing that.
(30:55):
You prepare for me to do this,
and then I've replacedone behavior with another.
Let me give you an example.
Let's say I havea horse that's learned to cut the corners
in the arena badlyso that every time I go around
the size of my arena is getting smallerand smaller and smaller.
It's because he's cutting all four corners
(31:18):
So here's what I'm going to do.
I'm going to ride my horseon a slightly loose rein,
and I'm going to put him on the rail,go down the long
side of the arena, and I'm goingto sort of neutralize my reins.
In other words, I'm not steering him.
I'm not holding him on the rail.
(31:38):
And I'm going to wait until the moment
that he intentionally veers off the railtowards the center
in an effort to cut the corner.
And then I'm going to immediately shorten
my outside reinand turn him right in to the fence.
I'll go a few strides down the fence
and then I'll shorten my other reinand turn him in to the fence again.
(32:04):
And then we'll go straight down the fence
on a loose rein with a neutralized rein.
And I'll wait for my horseto take the action
of turning unauthorized,
cutting the corner towards the middle,and then I'll shorten that outside rein,
turn him immediately into the fence,go down the fence a little ways, shorten
(32:28):
the other Rein, turn him immediatelyinto the fence again and try it again.
And so what I'm doingis allowing the horse
to take the action of cutting the cornerwhere
he thinks he ought to be able to turn,which is, by the way,
going against the grainof what we trained horses, which is to
(32:50):
continue on this path until I tell youto do something different.
Now, when you have horse cutting corners,you have a horse is sort of cheating.
He's making his own decisions.
So if every time I sense
that the horse is taking that action,I immediately shorten the reign,
(33:10):
turn him abruptly into the fence,go back the other way, on the fence,
and then shorten the other wayand turn him into the fence again
and start all over in very short order.
If the timing is goodand the pressure is adequate,
every time your horseeven thinks about cutting the corner,
(33:33):
he'll pick his shoulders upand continue down the rail
in preparationfor you turning him into the fence.
And that's what that's a perfect exampleof what replaced what training is.
It's very effective in retraining a horse
that has learned naughty tricks
in keepingwith the subject of reinforcement.
(33:57):
It's also important for you to understandthe difference
between positive reinforcementand negative reinforcement.
This is another huge area of confusion
for people, and often the same people
that think it's wrong to usepunishment and training
(34:18):
and that are confusing
or conflating reinforcementwith punishment.
They often think negative reinforcementis punishment and it's not.
That's a totally inaccurate view
of positive and negative reinforcement.
You can think of
(34:40):
reinforcement, positiveand negative reinforcement as either
adding somethingor taking something away So
a positive reinforcement
is, for example, a food based reward.
So in the case of a food based reward,
you have to wait for the horseto give the proper response
(35:03):
that you wish to reward,and then you give them the food as
a way of adding something to the equationas a reinforcement
negative, a negative reinforcement
refers to taking away something.
And in the case of training horses,what you're taking away is pressure.
(35:25):
So because as I mentioned earlier,
horses are highly,highly sensitive animals.
And because they're prey animalsand flight animals,
they feel all sorts of pressure very,very keenly.
They feel physical pressure,they feel mental pressure,
(35:45):
they feel all sorts of environmentalpressure very, very keenly.
And they see a cessation of pressure.
That sort of means that they're safeand in a cocoon, if you will.
So it
turns out that the application of pressure
(36:06):
and the taking away of pressure
as a negative reinforcer
is a highly, highly effectivemeans of training a horse,
because, number one, they feel pressureso keenly, they're so sensitive.
So, in other words,they will detect the slightest,
slightest movement as pressureSo if I barely
(36:29):
touch my legs or close out
or if I barely flex a finger or shift
my balance slightly forward or
back, the horse feels it very keenly.
We always use the example of a flylanding on his hair coat
and his abilityto be able to shake that one little muscle
(36:50):
that gets that fly offof that part of his hair coat.
That's how sensitive horsesare to pressure.
And so in in terms of training a horsefor performance either on the ground
or under saddle because as they respond
to such slight amounts of pressure,
the release of pressure isis the most effective training means.
(37:14):
So a negative reinforcement simply meansyou take something away from the equation.
And so in the case of negativereinforcement being the primary means
that we train horses with,it is because we apply pressure
such as a leg
cue a light like you and the horse learnsthat when he moves forward
(37:36):
in response to that pressure,the pressure will go away.
And he learns that almost instantaneously.
The very first time that it occurs.
So it turns out that negativereinforcement
is not a bad thingand certainly not punishment in any way.
But it's one of the most effectivemeans of training horses.
(37:57):
The release of pressure is the reward.
Now, the this is a good example
also of why amateur ridershave such a hard time
keeping a horse in a proper frameand a collective frame.
Because what happens iswhen the horse comes into frame,
(38:21):
the first thing that happens is
they don't release the pressurewhen the horse comes there.
So the horse won't stay therebecause he doesn't find a release
of pressure there.
And the second thing isthat when the horse comes out of frame,
he he often doesfind a release of pressure there
because he comes
(38:43):
he lifts his head upand he puts slack in the rain.
So he finds hisown release of pressure. So
this application of
pressure and the release of pressurein the training of the horse
is highly effectiveas long as the rider is in control.
And in command of
(39:03):
when they are releasing the pressureand when they're adding pressure,
it's important for you to understand
the difference between a Qand A reinforcement.
A Q is a signal
or a communique from the rider
using any or all of the riders aids.
(39:24):
So the riders natural aids are the seat,
legs, hands and voice, and we'reconstantly using all of those aids.
Your seat, legs, hands and voicein order to communicate to the horse
what you want them to go,how you want to move his body,
how you control all parts of his body,the direction, the speed.
(39:44):
So a cue is a signal, and
the horse learns what the proper responseto that signal is.
Reinforcement supportsthe cue and is used in order
to clarify the horse's response.
So let's take the example of reins.
(40:06):
Reins in spite of what?
90% of riders think and do,
reins are not a cueing device.
They're actually a reinforcement device.
So less you see example of stopping
for most riders.
If you say, what's the cue to stop,they say pull back on the reins
(40:30):
and that's wrong.
The cue to stop is when you exhale,
shift your center of gravity back
and plant your seat, seatbeltsinto the saddle,
releasing leg pressure off the horse.
If the horse does not stop,you would shorten your reins
(40:51):
and then reapply the AIDS, this time
with ringpressure as reinforcement to the cue
and in that way, the cue to
stop is a shift of your weightand the use of your seat.
Maybe you used a exhaleand a vocal cue as well,
and if the horse did not stop youthen use the reins.
(41:15):
The cue comes from your seat and voice
the reins are reinforcement to the cue
if the horse does not respond.
So when the reins are usedstrictly as reinforcement
and not as the cue,the horse learns to stop properly off
your seat aidand he learns it really fast.
(41:37):
Let's take the exampleof cueing a horse to turn.
If I'm riding the horse straight forward,
then my hands are reaching forward.
Well, in front of the saddle
reaching for the horse's mouth.
I'm looking straight ahead.
My shoulders are square ahead.
I'm sitting squarely on my to seat bones.
(42:00):
And as I give the cue to turn what I do,
just imagine
that you're sitting on that horsegoing straight.
And I also kind of imagine that you havea neck brace on or a body cast on.
And so all you're going to do to turnthat horse
is turn and look, but you're going to
(42:22):
keep your chin in alignmentwith your sternum.
So you're going to open your shouldersin the turn.
The connectivity with your armsand your torso
causes your arms to shift.
So let's say I'm turning right.
So I'm going to turn and openmy shoulders to the right,
(42:42):
allow my arms to come to the right,allow my outside leg to close
and my inside leg to open as my hipsslightly turn to the right.
All of those things in my arms
in my seat bones and in my legs.
And then whereand in the way my balance shifts,
(43:04):
all of those things are the cue to turn
if the horse
ignores my cue to turn and continuesgoing straight,
then I would simply bump the inside rein.
I would take just a little touch,a brief touch, or a brief bump
of the insiderein on the lip of the horse's mouth
(43:27):
in order to reinforce that cue
that I just gave with my body to turn.
So again,the cue to turn came from my body
the reinforcement, if the horse did notrespond, came from the reins.
So your reins are not a queuing device.
They are for reinforcement.
(43:49):
The cues should come before that.
Horses learn that
if they respond to the cue,the reinforcement won't come.
So the greatest reward to the horse comeswhen he feels you shift your body,
he feels you slowlyrotate your body into the turn
and he turns with you.
(44:10):
Therefore, reinforcement never comes andyou never touch his mouth with the reins.
So he now learnsthat all he has to do is move with you
and he won't get pressure on his mouth.
So now we have a horsethat turns off body cues
and both the horse and the rider benefit
(44:32):
so in summary of
all this information,and I know it's a lot of information,
but really when you break it downin this way, the difference between
reward reinforcement between cues
and reinforcement difference, brainreinforcement of punishment.
If you think about all these thingsand the natural qualities of horse
(44:54):
that make these certain qualitiesof learning
certain responses to pressure et cetera,
the horse is very uniqueand in many, many ways.
And if you take all thatinto consideration,
the main thing I want you to consider
(45:15):
is that when we are unclear to horses,it is unkind,
unclear is unkind.
And by that,
what I mean is allowing a horse to develop
obnoxious or unsafe behaviors
because we are reluctantto reinforce a cue,
(45:40):
because we are inadvertently
giving rewards to the horsefor bad behavior,
because we think
that reinforcementis punishment and punishment is bad.
All of these things create
a lack of clarity for the horse.
(46:03):
What horses love most
is routine and consistency
and clear expectations
and clear ramification actions.
It's the comfort they get from knowing
what's going to happen that they love.
So inconsistent reinforcement to a horse
(46:25):
allowing a horse to one time
get away with something and the next timeget mad at him because he does it.
That kind of inconsistent reinforcement
is very disconcerting to a horse
and it is not kind.
This is how horses develop
bad behaviorsand there are many behaviors of horses
(46:46):
that can develop to the pointwhere the horse becomes dangerous
or the horse becomes so unpleasant
to be aroundthat nobody wants that horse anymore.
You can't give that horse away.
He's he's learned so many bad behaviorsor he's so unsafe
that he just can't be trustedto be around people.
(47:10):
And that kind of
horse ends up in a rescue andand they don't always survive that trip.
So there's there's a lot of reallygreat horses out there in the world.
And if we have allowed a horse to develop
very unsafe
behaviors, resources are not going to beput into that horse in the future.
(47:32):
And he could give up in ain a very tragic circumstance.
So all of that is to say, being unclear toa horse is unkind.
You need to understand
what reinforcement is, how to use it.
And hopefully now you have
a better understanding of the differencebetween cues and reinforcement,
(47:54):
the difference between reinforcementand punishment
when punishment is appropriateand when it's not knowing
how and why horses respond
and knowing how they learnhow they make associations.
All of that is critical to your success
as a trainer, whether you like it or not.
(48:16):
Any time you work with a horse, you'reeither training it or on training it.
I hope this podcast has helpedyou find more clarity
in your training with your horse.
If so, I'd love to hear your commentsabout this subject.
If not, I'd like to hear themto how I might
be able to be more clear myself and helpyou understand a little bit better.
(48:39):
So please leave me a commentat really good night dot com slash podcast
And now it's time for my favorite segment.
What the hey Q&A.
(49:00):
Each month we pick a few unique questions
from our listenersand answer them on the air.
If you'd like to submit a written questionfor what the Hey,
please go to my Facebook page.
Julie GoodnightHorsemanship or email podcast
at Julie Goodnight dot com.
By the way,we keep all your questions in the queue.
(49:22):
So even if I've not answered the question
you submitted yet,I hope to get to it soon.
Or maybe I'll turn your questioninto the main topic
for a future podcast,which I've been known to do.
So please stay tunedOur first question comes from Debra
via Facebook Messenger.
(49:44):
I just found your podcast
and I'm having some troublewith trailer loading.
As you explained in the episode,I just listened to a young horse
having repetitive bad experienceswith an activity.
Sets it up for having higher anxietyrelated to that activity.
My horse has not had any positive trailerloading experiences,
(50:08):
and she has only loadedabout 12 times in her life.
I chose her before birth,
so I've had her her whole life
OK, Debra.
Well, 12 bad experiences is
not uncommon.
(50:30):
For sure, but if you think about it
as 12 to nothing.
If you think about thatbeing a soccer game,
that seems a little foreboding.
So one thing that has to occur
is that the horse has to have at least 12
(50:52):
positive training experiences
before you could even remotely hopeto have that score.
Back to zero.
But sadly, the truth
is, for every negative experiencea horse has,
you'reprobably going to need to have multiple
(51:12):
positive experiences to overcome that.
So then if you think about having
about 12 negative experiences, it may mean
you need to have 3640, 50
positive experienceswith that horse in the trailer.
So I think that dependingon the techniques that you use
(51:35):
and if you just can make sure that
in proceeding forward that
there are no longer any negative
training experiences
regarding the trailer.
So you're going to have to back way upobviously and start from the beginning
(51:57):
and first of all,I think it's important to understand
that there are alwaysgoing to be different steps.
So the very first thing that has to occur
is that you have to train the horseto load in the trailer.
In that process, you're also going to be
training it to unload because
particularlyif you use that my techniques,
(52:20):
you're going to be loading itand unloading it many, many times
before you ever take it anywhere.
And that brings up the firstand most important point.
You can't train a horse for trailer
loading when you have to go somewhere.
So this has to be dedicatedtraining unrelated
(52:41):
to transporting a horse anywhere.
So I need a trailer, a safe trailer
that's appropriately sized for the horse.
I need a
tow vehicle to be hooked up to it.
So that it's in a secure location
and I need to be able to move it
(53:03):
strategically.
So I often recommendif if the horse particularly
has had bad trailer loading experience
that we try to back that
trailer into a corner of solid fencing
or a corner of the barn
and a solid wall or a solid fence
(53:27):
so that the horse is feelingsomewhat confined
between the barn or the walland the trailer.
That limits his optionsa lot and helps a lot.
By the way, there is a ton of information
on my website about trailer loading.
(53:47):
If you're a subscriberto my training library,
there are multiple videos on the subject.
I also have a training
video that you
can purchase called StressFree Trailer Ring,
and you can get eitherthe DVD or the digital version,
(54:07):
and it will take youthrough all these steps.
And I don't have time to dotalk about the specific techniques now.
But first you need to trainthat horse to load.
Then if you use my techniquesin very short order,
that horse will be willingly marchingstraight forward into the trailer.
(54:31):
And backing calmly out of the trailer.
You'll be giving him a little rewardevery time he gets in,
so he'll start thinking of that as fun.
The next stage, onceI've trained the horse to load and unload
and he's doing that fine,the trailer is never moved.
The next stage is to feed that horse
(54:52):
in the trailer twice a day for a week.
So when you're in that trailer, hooked up,leaving it in the place where
he knows it to be
every morning at
the time I show up at the barn,I love my horse in the trailer.
I might hang out with himwhile he eats his brain and hay
(55:14):
for the first little bit.
But after two or three days of that,
the horse is totally equating the traileras an all you can eat buffet.
And so after three or four days,you're getting him out of the stall or pan
and he's like dragging youtowards the trailer
because he's now thinks of itas an all you can eat salad bar.
(55:37):
So that's the second stageand then the third stage is going to be
to actually startmoving the horse in the trailer.
So we shot him
and I've been shutting him in, by the way,during that whole feeding process.
The next thing we're going to dois take him, take him on some short trips,
and we're going to give him lots across,lots of positive reinforcement.
(56:01):
We're never going to bribe the horseto get into the trailer.
That will never work.
But you're going
to have to put a lot of work into this
because of all the negativetraining experiences the horse has had.
And by the way, when I have taken horsesthat have had horrible
(56:22):
training experiences or horribleexperiences, period, with a horse trailer,
we generally have them loading upreally, really well
within a day or two, within the first dayor two of working with them.
And so we jump right into the feeding
in the trailer twicea day, every day for a week.
(56:44):
We're doing that within just a few days.
And it's ayeah, it's a big investment and time,
but it's well worth it to get to that,
even out that score to get your scoremore to the 12 to 50 range.
So that's what I would do.
It's very, very doable.
People want instant fixes,and you're not going to find
(57:06):
that particularlywhen it comes to trailer loading.
But that's what I would do.
So be sure to check out my resourcesonline.
Just go to sign in.
Dot Julie Good night dotcom and you'll have access to the academy
and you'll find all that information there
(57:27):
Our second question comes from Heather.
She says, Hi, Julie.
I just listened to a recent podcast
and would like to ask a question for whatthe hey Q&A.
I have a Mustang.
I Chantal is very smart and willing,
but has a very strong personality.
(57:47):
Maybe from being gelded so late.
How do I handle it when he losesfocus and gets overexcited?
What are some good exercisesI can do to teach him to focus on me?
He has great focus.
Unless there are other horses aroundthat are acting up,
he will whinnyand his attention is 95% on them.
(58:10):
He doesn't respect my presencewhen he is in this mindspace.
Thank you. Heather.
Well, Heather
these are excellent observationsthat you have made.
I can totally picturethis scene, and I will say that
although all horses are capableof acting this way,
(58:33):
certainly some horses are more proneto this kind of behavior than others.
And certainly mustangs that have run wild,
they theirinstinctive behavior of all kinds
is much strongerand much keener than domestic horses.
And so obviously a a
(58:56):
Mustang or feral horse that was running
while old that then became rounded up.
And that then has experiencedall different sorts
of force herd situations and gelded late.
All of those were certainly combinedto make that horse
highly, highly distractable.
And the the point being that it doesn'thave to be a Mustang and it doesn't
(59:22):
even have to be a horse that was geldedlate or it even a male horse.
Some horses are just more easilydistracted by other horses than others.
They have stronger herd
draw.
Herd behaviors are more importantand more significant to them.
So what do we do withthat highly distracted horse?
(59:44):
I like to
first of all, when I have a horseis highly distracting
and highly distressedby the actions of other horses.
I have learned to think about thatat least
in part as a mental health problem.
This is a stress problem, a focus problem,
a distraction problem.
(01:00:06):
And we need to teach the horse
ways of coping with his anxiety.
So I always immediatelyteach the horse a head down
to any timethat horse starts getting amped up.
I then immediatelyput him into the head down position.
It's not physiologically possible for him
to be excited or tensewhen he's had his down.
(01:00:29):
And in very short order.
Any time a horse gets excited
if you cause him to put his head down,
this is a good example of replacementtraining.
In very short order,he will start doing that himself.
So any time he gets excited,he will just take a deep breath
and put his head downas a way of calming himself down.
(01:00:52):
So I'm going
to use that as one of many tools
for redirecting this horse's focus.
The other other things I am going to doare through proactive training.
So whenever a horse loses
his focus on me,I want to immediately put him to work,
(01:01:12):
whether that's on the groundor in the saddle,
we're going to immediatelystart doing something
go forward, turn right,turn left, go faster,
try to circle, trot,try to circle the other way.
Go over here, go over there.
Stop back up turn right, turn left.
A lot of changes of direction,a lot of cues to speed up and work.
(01:01:35):
So the more I am giving him cues, cues
that he knows,the more he has to focus on me.
And I will keep him busy and workinghard until I feel like he is
really running out of oxygen.
And and also, most importantly,
until I feel his focus come back on me.
(01:01:56):
And when it does come back on me,I will allow him to rest.
So when I am working with a horse,whether on the ground or in the saddle,
I give the horse basically two options.
Option number one, focus on me.
Option number two, focus on nothingYou don't have the choice
(01:02:18):
of focusing on everything elsein your environment.
You don't get to turn your nose.
And look, it'svery important that you understand
having no control on your horse.
I have written a lot about that.
So go to sign in Dot Julie good night.
Dot com.
You can sign up for a free membership appand you can read until you're exhausted
(01:02:39):
about establishing nosecontrol on a horse.
That's a big part of his distractibility.
So keeping the horse's nose contained,asking him to put his head down
when he gets excited, keeping him busy
when he's distracted giving him rapid fire
cues, causing him to work
(01:03:01):
hard, change directionsa lot, allowing him to rest
when he's focused on meor focused on nothing.
And if you do those things in very shortorder,
you will have the focus of this horseSo good luck with that, Heather.
Our third
and final question todaycomes from Jennifer via email.
(01:03:24):
She says, Hello, Julie.
During episode number 71 of RideOn, you said
Even a dominanthorse is looking for leadership.
This really spoke to me.
My 13 year old off the track, Standardbredgelding is a very strong leader.
(01:03:44):
Internal, dominating every herd he's with
through many hours of ground work
and tipsI've learned from your videos and podcast
I've established myself as his leader,
so he has excellent ground manners
and is respectful with me and otherswho handle him.
(01:04:04):
But I often wonder whyhe allows my leadership
when he is so strongand dominant with other horses.
Can you explain that concepta little more and expand on how
training a dominant horse might requiredifferent strategies and tactics?
Thank you, Jennifer.
(01:04:26):
Jennifer,again, these are very astute questions,
and I'm so appreciate the fact thatyou have gotten a handle on this horse
and that you've recognized thathe actually appreciates your leadership.
And also,thank you for listening to my podcast.
And I'm so glad to hear
that you've gotten some tipsthat have helped you in your training.
(01:04:50):
That's sort of what it's all about.
So you, you you validate my purpose there.
So thank you for that.
Now, listen, no matter how dominant
a horse seems, any horse likes
feeling secureand likes not having to think.
(01:05:11):
I often say that thinkingis not the best sport of a horse.
He has to work really hard to problemsolve.
He's very quick and easy
to worry about things and worry
about making decisions and issuesin this environment.
So not having to thinkand when things are the same
(01:05:35):
and when a leader can be trustedto take care of you
and to always have your backand to be consistent and comportment
to be consistent and expectations,
reinforcement, rewards
that is reassuring to any horse,no matter how dominant.
Also, keep in mindthat sometimes when horses
(01:05:58):
are acting in a dominant manner, doesn'treally mean that they're a dominant horse,
and it certainly doesn't meanthat they're a truly alpha horse.
Remember the alpha horse is that horse
that's at the top of the pecking order.
But a truly alpha horse is calmand confident
(01:06:21):
and doesn't really have to be the leader.
But a horse can display
dominant behaviorseven when he's not an alpha horse,
because in any relationship
between horsesor between horses and people,
it's linear.
So one of you is dominant.
(01:06:42):
One of you is subordinate.
And any time the leader of a herd
falls down on their leadership dies,
gets struck by lightning, disappears,what have you.
Another horse immediately
takes over as leaderbecause there always has to be a leader.
(01:07:03):
So in the absence of leadership,another horse
will take over as the leaderand start displaying dominant tendencies.
But that doesn't mean that by nature,that horse is truly dominant horse.
Let me give you the example of a horseI've been working with recently
that belongs to my good friendand neighbor.
(01:07:23):
This horse Jimmy had through a
series of mishandling had become
extremely dominant, was acting invery dominant ways, very pushy, refusing
to do stuff he was trying to do,shouldering into slinging his head at you,
(01:07:45):
dragging you around,ripping the rope and running away.
And he was displayingincreasingly dominant behavior
in such a mannerthat he seemed like a dominant horse.
But once we put him into trainingand we started giving him
regimented training,reminding him of the previous training
(01:08:07):
he had creating very strict
expectations of his behaviors,
which were consistent with the waysthat he had been trained in the past.
He immediately became a docile horse,
and he immediately became a very content,
relaxed, subordinate horse.
(01:08:27):
He didn't have to be dominated over time.
He immediately capitulated in the presenceof strong leadership.
And then he became very soft,
very compliant, very willing,
and very ingratiated to the leadershipthat he had
(01:08:48):
So to me, that was not a dominant horsethat we had to over dominate.
That was a horse that had learned to act
in increasingly dominant waysbecause of a void of leadership.
So it could be that your horse isthe same way
and horses will always seek leadership,even the most dominant horse,
(01:09:12):
and they will always gladly acceptleadership when it is true leadership
that is consistentand trustworthy and confident
and all those things that horsesfind great comfort in.
So congratulations, Jennifer, you have
been able to display that
kind of leadership to your horseand he gladly accept your leadership.
(01:09:34):
So that's excellent.
And you've done a good job.
And I'm so happy to hear that I could help
in any way
That's all the questionswe have time for today.
I love sharing my horse careand training experience with you,
(01:09:57):
and I appreciate all of your feedback,suggestions and questions.
And I'd love to hear what topics interestyou the most.
So if you have questions for whatthe hay or podcast topics
you'd like me to address, pleasemessage me on Facebook at Julie Goodnight
or email podcast at Julie Good Nikon.
(01:10:19):
And here are a few tips for youif you want your question answered on
the air.
I would greatly appreciate itif you would keep your question concise
and please proofread before hitting send.
Next month on my podcastwe'll cover another horsemanship topic
to expand your knowledgeand help make your horse life better.
(01:10:40):
Remember, please subscribeso you don't miss a single episode
and pleaseinvite your equestrian friends to join us.
You can find this podcaston every platform.
And don't forget to check out my onlinemembership programs.
You'll find the solutions you needwhen you need them.
You can subscribe to my fulltraining library with hundreds of videos,
(01:11:04):
audios and articles,all of it searchable content.
Or you can enroll in a horsemanshipshort course on building confidence
or join at the premier levelthe Interactive Academy
where you receive a 12 month trainingcurriculum for you and your horse,
plus personalized coaching from me.
Just go to Julie.
(01:11:24):
Good night dot com.
Slash join and start your ride now.
No matter where you arein your horsemanship journey,
whether you're new to horsesor an old hand,
whether you're training a green horseor refining your upper level skills,
I hope you found some helpful information
to help make your horse life better.
(01:11:47):
Thanks again for your awesome commentsand for the five star ratings.
This helps me out a lotand it helps us rise in the rankings.
So more horse lovers, just like youand me, can find this podcast
I'm Julie.
Goodnight.
Thank you for listeningand please stay safe and enjoy the ride.
Popular Podcasts
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
24/7 News: The Latest
The latest news in 4 minutes updated every hour, every day.
Therapy Gecko
An unlicensed lizard psychologist travels the universe talking to strangers about absolutely nothing. TO CALL THE GECKO: follow me on https://www.twitch.tv/lyleforever to get a notification for when I am taking calls. I am usually live Mondays, Wednesdays, and Fridays but lately a lot of other times too. I am a gecko.