November 17, 2024 • 58 mins
In this episode, Teresa interviews Ryan Gray, author of 'Twilight in York, Volume One.' Ryan shares his deeply personal journey through addiction, mental health struggles, and the power of storytelling in recovery. The conversation explores the raw realities of addiction, the importance of empathy, and the hope that comes from sharing one's story.
The discussion emphasizes the need for understanding and support for those battling addiction and mental illness, ultimately conveying a message of resilience and hope.
Reach out to Ryan on FB:
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100056778799688
Ryan's Website: https://twilightinyork.com/
Purchase and Review the Book: amazon.com/Twilight-York-One-Ryan-Gray/dp/B0CKS6F9XK
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
(00:00):
In this episode, we engage in a very candid conversation about serious subjects,
(00:04):
including but not limited to drugs and mental health through the lens of the author's real life experiences.
Please be advised that the discussions may delve into sensitive topics that can be triggering for some listeners.
The stories shared by our guests are personal and reflect their individual journey.
While we aim to foster understanding and awareness, we are not mental health professionals,
(00:26):
and our conversations are not a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
If you or someone you know are struggling with mental health issues or substance abuse,
we encourage you to seek help from qualified professionals, your well-being is paramount,
and there are resources available to support you.
Listener discretion is advised.
Thank you for joining us on this journey.
(00:51):
Hello, Prosecco Queens fam.
I am your host, Teresa, and thank you for joining us for this new episode.
So the people closest to me know that I am and have always been an avid reader.
At any point in time, I'm reading at least five books at once that range from self-help to autobiographies
and literally just about everything in between.
And today, I have the privilege of talking with Ryan Gray,
(01:13):
who is the author of the book, Twilight in York, Volume 1,
whose story took me in from the very beginning.
In the dim shadows of struggle and the relentless pursuit of hope,
Ryan Gray emerged with a story that reflects the human spirit's capacity for perseverance.
His memoir, A Work of Creative Nonfiction, delves into the turbulent, latter stages of addiction
(01:35):
before finding a path to recovery in 2007.
This deeply personal narrative isn't just an account of adversity,
but a beacon of hope for others who walk a similar road.
Through vivid storytelling, Ryan captures the rawness of addiction
and the quiet strength required to overcome it.
His journey demonstrates that there is a solution and he is living proof of it.
(01:56):
His memoir serves not only as a testimony to survival,
but as a message to those still lost in the darkness.
There's always a way out and with it, the promise of a new beginning.
I am looking forward to getting into the gritty details with Ryan
and because addiction touches every family in one way or another, including in my household,
regardless of economic standing, race, color, creed, or the multitude of ways we can diversify ourselves.
(02:19):
I think this is not only an important story to tell,
but one that will hopefully open minds and create a level of empathy
that we all need for those who have or still may be struggling.
I am pleased to introduce Ryan Gray, the author of Twilight in York Volume 1.
Welcome to the show, Ryan.
Hello. Thank you for having me. I appreciate being on the show. I really do. Thank you.
(02:39):
This book has really gripped me. I think that your storytelling is so unique at its best.
I think it's raw. It's gritty.
I think we mentioned before I am enjoying it too much.
And the reality is I feel bad saying that because it's your life story and it's real.
And I don't want you to think I'm like, yeah, I'm enjoying what you went through,
(03:02):
but the way you tell it is gripping.
So if you don't mind telling me, telling our listeners,
what made you feel so comfortable being so raw and personal in this storytelling?
And how did it start? How did the idea of it start?
So it started out as a project for a class. It was a short story.
(03:26):
I studied literature creative writing.
I had to work out my bachelor's, but it started out as a project for a class.
It was a short story and where a student suggested I write the whole story out frame by frame.
This seemed like a golden idea. It was simple and yet so far reaching.
(03:51):
To take the template, we would have these workshop classes.
The most important part of being a creative writing major is the workshop classes
because they give you writing assignments and you write them out
and then we take turns critiquing each other's work just to take the template I had started with,
which was a true story about an act on the street and run with it.
(04:12):
Turn it into a narrative by presenting in a chronological order,
telling the whole story and leaving nothing out.
So I got started in that class.
Then I had a publisher, a local publisher for a few years.
As I was working with her, there was a feeling of reaching out in a creative and artistic way.
(04:33):
There was a purging of emotion or catharsis.
I was helping others in a spiritual way.
Publisher was actually a Christian publisher.
I'm not that big on Christianity, but she was a Christian publisher and she specialized in abuse.
We both decided that addiction is a form of abuse.
(04:59):
You could call it self abuse.
Agreed.
But it is something a big carol act fan, Jack Carol Act, is my favorite author.
I don't know that I've read anything of his actually.
Now that you're saying that, I don't know that I've read anything of his.
On the road, it's his biggest, most famous work.
(05:19):
But what I wanted was something literary that was creative, that was artistic.
But I also wanted to write something that carried the message of recovery.
So my publisher at the time was really gung-ho about the recovery aspect.
And I was considering for a while taking out the message of recovery and just having an artistic sort of literary book.
(05:46):
She was very big about that, about reaching out, helping other people.
Just because of her background with the Christian thing and carrying the message sort of became more apparent, more kind of crystallized.
That was what I needed to do.
I understand that and I don't want to cut you off, but I understand that in a sense.
(06:08):
And I can see definitely having some creative differences.
It's a little hard too when certain publishers, I can imagine, have a certain idea.
You have that back and forth.
And I understand in her sense, the Christian part of it, because that's what gives people the hope.
But sometimes that every story works out that way.
(06:31):
I'm going to use the term bless in that sense because that's how I speak.
That's how I would see it.
And so I understand, but I also think sometimes, and this is the dichotomy of it, the other side of that, I think,
is that not every story ends up like yours.
So it's like sometimes you have to show the realities of the darkness in order to find that light.
(06:51):
But not every story finds that light.
And we've all lived, and I can probably say that with confidence, we all at some point, we're all six degrees of separation,
have known people who have not lived through the darkness into the light.
You know what I'm saying?
So that's a really interesting,
I would say not an interesting choice for you, but I think that it's very between you and her.
(07:15):
I think almost that it was a really good idea to have both of you put your voices in there because that as you're reading it,
you know, with this volume one, notice there is, and we'll talk about volume two later on, like how that's going to be.
But with volume one, you can tell that there is times that you do exude a bit of hope and you say,
(07:38):
okay, I'm going to do better this time. I'm not going to do it this time.
This is going to be the one that works and this is going to be the time that works.
And it's like, okay, that's it.
I'm not going back to this again.
And then of course, the demon follows.
You know, we know that.
And again, we, like I said, in my own household just recently, we had, and it wasn't me personally,
(07:58):
and we had, we had it in, you know, alcoholism and drug addiction in my household and other addictions that we won't go into.
So I had to make those choices to say, unfortunately, the same choices that your family had to make where it was,
we can't do anything else anymore.
You know what I'm saying?
Like this, it's a personal decision, but we know for you, and we're going to talk about this as well,
(08:21):
there was the mental health aspect of it, which to me, to be honest with me, to be honest with you and my audience as well,
is addiction of any kind that is a mental illness in itself.
We all have certain addictions.
I've said before in other episodes, mine has always been like a food addiction, right?
I've had food addiction.
(08:42):
I've had exercise addiction.
You know, I've had, what's the other one, procrastination.
That's not addiction, but that's a mental issue.
You know what I'm saying?
When we all have things that we struggle with and some worse than others, and I appreciate, I appreciate how throughout your book,
you throw in those areas of, I got this this time, I'm going to do better.
(09:06):
And then you show that you're human and you fall back.
I think that's really, I think that's really good.
Again, I'm going to say storytelling, even though technically is what you were living at the time.
Right, right.
What I want to do, because we want to talk about what your drug of choice was.
I don't even know that I'm saying it properly, but what I want to do before we go into that is to have three small excerpts from your book
(09:29):
that I want to read.
And it kind of goes into the whole background of what we're going to talk about even more.
And then you can, you know, obviously talk about what your drug of choice was.
Because I know towards the end of the book, you talk about at that point, that was your drug of choice, but that didn't even matter.
It was about, you know, it was about what was available, what you were doing and what you and your cohorts were doing as well at the time.
(09:52):
I wouldn't necessarily say friends, because I don't know, you know, if they ended up as, you know, if you can consider that friends
or just people living the same life as you at the time.
But at the time, it's just kind of like like-minded people, right?
That's really what it is when I say, you know, cohorts, it was like-minded people.
I know each of you had a drug of choice.
And then at one point, it was like, well, we're just going to do what we have available.
I'm going to read the three of them and then we'll go from there.
(10:16):
You know, our audience will enjoy it.
I can guarantee you that.
It was indeed my story.
Each event was filtered through my own perspective.
What actually happened immediately followed by the impression it made on me.
Sometimes I was able to jot down an important detail.
Before my excessive drug use, I always had a good memory.
Everything in York took place somewhere between concrete, objective reality in my own inner world.
(10:42):
Through all, the DXM definitely pushed me back further inside and agitated the state of my mental health.
I had my initial hospitalization following the aforementioned break.
I had jumped from a second story window, got up and jumped again.
It was then that I started to learn what drugs could do to a mentally ill brain.
(11:03):
I stopped paying rent as I was mostly broke.
I was living in a half finished basement at the time, about a mile from the main campus.
When I had no money for food, cigarettes or drugs, I started to steal.
I stopped showering, shaving, brushing my teeth, no hygiene whatsoever.
I remember attending class once while I was manic, thoughts racing.
(11:25):
I was sure everyone in the world could smell me.
At this time, I became irrational and had many confused delusional conversations with my parents,
asking them that I were there.
Were their murders committed or firm?
Were their murders committed at our former home?
Were they conspiring against me?
Showing aggression and even making threats.
(11:45):
They tried to coax me towards some stabilization by paying my rent and tuition,
but only on the condition that I find a job, see a psychiatrist, stop using drugs and achieve moderate grades.
I became fully reclusive, would not answer the door or come out of my room.
When I stole, I stole Robotus and Coff Medicine.
(12:05):
I no longer had any friends or money.
So I was short of a way to get high.
I drank whole eight ounce bottles with increasing frequency.
The amount of dextromethorphan, DXM, in my blood was toxic on a regular basis.
Because I had stopped taking care of myself, my room had rotten food, ants, broken glass and a clogged toilet.
(12:31):
My parents visited my room near campus and saw the way I was living, in Squalor.
They called the police and had them shuttle me to the nearest hospital.
I went quietly.
From there, I was processed, inserted into the system.
My consciousness at that time was hard to determine.
That's deep.
That's deep down bottom.
(12:52):
Do you feel that that was your bottom or was that just the beginning?
That was the beginning.
That was the beginning.
Mental health, I always thought the ratio I always had in my head was, you know, I'm on a downward spiral.
But my downward spiral is about four times more rapid than theirs is.
(13:14):
Because being as mentally ill as I am, and I am very mentally ill, I have schizophrenia, depression, social anxiety, general anxiety, ADHD.
Because I have all of that, you know, if I use or drink, my downward spiral is just much more, much more rapid, much faster.
(13:38):
So that excerpt about living in Squalor, yeah, that was only the beginning.
I mean, it got much worse very quickly.
And was that in your college?
That was your college?
Like, were you living in college?
Yes.
Yeah, that was my, I had to get pulled out of college for medical reasons.
(14:01):
I think my dad called the dean and had him like it was past the point where I could withdraw from the class.
But I forget what the code was called.
It was like an x something, where it says your grade is x.
I don't remember what it was called, but he was able to get through the dean and allow me to withdraw.
(14:24):
I didn't know the way past the F level and down to X.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was while I was in college.
It's, that's when it all started in college.
My drug abuse, you know, it started with marijuana.
I was never a huge drinker, but I did drink some.
I used to smoke when I was in college.
I used to smoke marijuana every day.
(14:45):
The only brush I've had with the law was we got busted for drug paraphernalia.
We didn't have enough.
We only had a little bit of marijuana, so they couldn't charge us for possession, which was very lucky.
Because we always had a good amount, but this, we just happened to not really have much.
(15:06):
So there was that.
And then the psychotic break that you mentioned about the jumping from the window.
That was right around the time that I was using marijuana every day.
And then I started taking Adderall.
That's when I started taking DXM.
So it was like the gateways, basically.
(15:27):
Pretty much.
So why and not that I encourage, not that I encouraged it to get worse, obviously, but why DXM?
Now, when I ask that question, it's interesting because I remember, for example, Lil Wayne years ago had like, you know, passed out, had seizures.
They used to mix it with like, Sprite.
When things like that, I used to think to myself, first of all, you talk about Robotussin.
(15:49):
That was one of the nastiest medicines I have to this day.
It's still one of the grossest medicines, but it's not about the taste of the medicine.
It's about what it does for you.
The taste, the taste is actually because this pharmaceutical company is like Robotussin.
Trying to deter people from abusing it by making it taste really bad.
(16:10):
Makes sense.
Makes sense.
I know you talk about in your book how schizophrenia basically is really like the devil's work.
And those were your words that I could completely understand.
Agree with that.
I guess I have polo at my house and with the drug use, it just exacerbated.
The mania, right?
And it started with marijuana, but it went to alcohol and in other addictions at that point as well.
(16:32):
So for you, did DXM give you what's just that high that you needed to calm down?
Based on the book, it seems like it was kind of like there were times that it was made to kind of calm you down and just take you out of your head because of the mental illness.
Was that what the pull was from it?
You know, that's a good question.
It's kind of a chicken before the end.
Before the thing is the mental health caused the addiction the other way around.
(16:59):
Got it.
I personally, I started using it because, you know, especially if I was like, I found I would find myself broke.
And and I would be in new areas.
So even if I did have the money, I wouldn't know where to buy drugs from.
(17:21):
Or who to buy drugs from.
So my, what I would do is I would, I would steal it from a drug store.
And there's actually a lot of become a pretty big problem with teenagers because it's so easy to get.
One time when I went to went to buy DXM, there was like a person at a computer and she had a system.
(17:48):
And I don't know if it was just that county or just that state, but they they kept track of how many bottles of Robotus and you had bought like in the past month.
They did start doing that around the nation.
Actually, I remember that.
Yes.
Yeah.
Wow.
So I guess that makes sense.
I mean, I wouldn't have thought about it that way that it's just basically a supply and demand situation.
(18:11):
Right.
Like if you need it, there's you're going to find a way to get it.
You know what I'm saying?
I guess I didn't really think about that.
And that kind of actually takes me to my next point, which is, which is interesting.
When your story begins for volume one, when your story begins, you talk about how you are let off in York, Pennsylvania for a halfway house.
(18:33):
Interestingly enough, I had never heard of York, but I know it's not far from Hershey and I've been to Hershey a few times.
And for me, that's only an hour and a half away, actually, barely two hours from where I live.
I was just at Hershey a year ago.
So in that sense, so the way you describe York is interesting, almost like it's a character in itself in the book.
(18:55):
Was that a conscious choice or was that just because you just happened to be there at that point in time when you were getting towards your lowest or trying to get better at the same time?
Do you think that if it was another place, it might have been just a significant because I don't know anything about York, but the way you talk about York.
(19:15):
Surprised me, actually, to be honest with you, I wouldn't have known it to be such an urban environment to the way you describe it.
So York has a high minority population or I don't know if the honestly, I don't know if it's the whole of York.
The places where I was staying, the parts of towns where I was, and I feel like the rest of York was a minority population in the street life persona was new to me.
(19:43):
I had to allow myself to be impacted by it, to let it change me.
I had a CD wallet full of alternative rock and metal, but the average citizen, New York was more of a hip hop or like a bop identity I was not familiar with.
And if I was familiar with it, I was not familiar with being surrounded by it, with it being the ammo of the area.
(20:08):
It's different.
I don't know if you remember the Superman song, it's a hip hop song, and it was very popular at the time and I was amazed how many people were playing that song.
It's different for a white guy to be surrounded by mostly black people all the time.
I required a lot of adjustment and alterations to my most basic central identity.
(20:31):
Most of my friends were black, the second main character, the main character, but the second main character is Puerto Rican.
But I was welcome with open arms and I was treated as one of the full by my new friends and any of my previous friends.
I found them to be more cordial and compassionate.
(20:52):
One group let me sleep on an inflatable mattress in their basement for free for months.
Very little was asked of me, but the transition from alternative rock as a white boy to hip hop was hard core.
I remember nearly throwing my CD wall out off the bridge over the creditors street.
There's a sense of brotherhood between people on the street and I never felt discriminated against or mistreated for being white.
(21:19):
Quite the opposite, in fact.
The setting I was in was a cultural one, a culture that goes unaccepted and it's something I want to talk about too, that I accepted unacknowledged, swept under the rug.
Yet we have our own music and our own arco.
We are pretty much the underbelly of the beast, likened to system works.
(21:41):
People try to avoid us with a sense of culture and places like York is profound.
I was trying to describe the city's atmosphere and the people I encountered there influencing me.
York sort of has an overarching reality, but I was amazed.
And maybe this is my failure to do good.
(22:05):
I kind of looked online like Google and looked at YouTube pages and I was able to find very little street life, especially as a culture.
I discovered a whole culture that was very apparent to me as I was living within it, you know, in York with mostly black people.
(22:27):
It's very interesting, I think, because a lot of times we get put into situations that we either weren't raised in or weren't expecting to.
And human nature is to adapt, right?
It's to adapt, is to try to survive and adapt.
And I know one of the, there's a few scenes in there where you meet up with a few gangs of people that you're not quite sure how to handle it first.
(22:50):
And then they seem to, you know, and what it does when you're reading it is it kind of keeps you on edge.
You wonder as you're reading it, is this going to be like a jail situation where like you have to do certain things for your own survival to, you know, join certain groups, certain gangs for your own survival for protection.
And it doesn't necessarily always turn out that it doesn't turn out that way, which is really interesting to me.
(23:11):
It's like, you kind of go back and you're like, wait a second, they didn't have the intentions that I thought that they were going to have in the beginning.
And it seems to be a theme throughout the book, which I thought was really interesting.
One of the things that I enjoy, you just talked about, you know, the Puerto Rican, your Puerto, your Puerto Rican friend, which is funny, weirdly enough.
(23:32):
But you describe this relationship with him and I want to assume it's who you're talking about. So I'm not going to say the name that I'll leave that to you if you want to do that.
But he became like a brother to you.
How did having him by your side impact your journey?
Because it's always interesting when you find people that are not just necessarily, I won't say like-minded, but are at a different point in their struggle.
(23:57):
That they can take somebody under their wing who is deeply struggling.
So for you, what did this bond mean to you with this person? And by the way, do you still keep in contact with this person?
I tried to make an archetypal, like I said, I'm big on caroac and the beat generation.
On the road has an extroverted prison, felon mentality character. He's known for doing things like driving from California to New York in four days, not sleeping, high energy, charismatic.
(24:41):
And I wanted to represent that Puerto Rican main character as an archetype of person's name in real life.
The archetypal person was Neil Cassidy, in the book on the road.
He's given the name Dean Moriarty. He's given the name Cody Pomeray in other books.
(25:06):
But he is the, I feel like my friend is the embodiment of the urban street one New England cowboy, like charismatic, always by my side.
We looked after each other as we were both on the streets trying to survive.
He was selfless with me. He never asked for anything from me, but the butt of the cigarette I was finished with shared his friends and copped whatever drug we were after.
(25:34):
His existence at my side kept me relatively safe. The folks who let me sleep in their basement were friends of his.
So we had a hand in that to my homeless status.
Without him, I would have been aimless, purposeless. I would have, I would have no direction without him, you know, story.
And I would probably be dead from overdose. Like many of my friends from that time were.
(25:57):
Most of my friends that I used with at that time actually passed away from overdose.
Still were. Yeah, they were, they were heroin addicts.
The main character.
Stames Alexander given the nickname Mac.
It was a very unique type of addict because.
(26:18):
For example, I knew somebody who smoked one cigarette a day and I didn't understand how, how they were able to do that. Mac was the type that.
You know, he would, he would, he would use harder drugs.
But not, not get hooked on them.
He had a different level of tolerance for certain, for certain uses and certain drugs and others.
(26:43):
Yeah, it seems like a meant that's a, that's a, that's definitely a mental thing as well. That's.
That's also to me.
That's very indicative of to me, that's actually indicative of hardcore because that means that like you not only have control over your.
Over your mental and what you know what I mean, what you're doing. Some things are more of a choice than others. I think that's interesting.
(27:10):
Who.
Here of that because you're right. I know some people that also say, oh, I only smoke one a day or, you know, I only have one after I eat. For example, just a cigarette.
We know how highly addictive nicotine is, right? And I'm going to say right now, based on these other addictions, I'll say it's a lower addiction.
We know it's just as bad as terrible.
Regardless of that, we know that I say the same thing.
(27:31):
I'm like, how, how have you not gotten to the point that you are a complete pack a day smoker or two pack a day smoker?
And for me, I think that's a very strong mental.
That's a very strong mental because it's still.
You still have that addiction in the sense of you still have to have it after every meal, for example, or once a day, right?
(27:55):
It's more it's very habit. It's a habit forming issue.
And I think that's the same. That might be the same idea with with your friend.
He didn't get to the point necessarily of it being habit forming.
He was he was able to say, I can dabble in this and I can dabble in that and I can dabble at this and still go on with my life.
But he was still to the point that he was in a similar situation as you.
(28:17):
So that just shows that there's levels of mental illness and addiction easily.
Yeah. Yeah.
Very unique. I mean, like in my travails, I've met a lot of a lot of addicts.
And it's very rare to see somebody who's in complete control, even if he's trying like cocaine or heroin.
(28:42):
Most people, once they try heroin, they never put it down.
Yeah. Yeah. And he's able to do heroin and not not want it again for a couple of weeks.
If that which is really dangerous, too, isn't it something like heroin?
I mean, they're all dangerous.
What you were using was building up in your system.
(29:03):
Right. That's extremely dangerous.
Something like heroin is like you don't do it for a few weeks, a few months or whatever, and your body doesn't have the same tolerance.
And you know what I mean?
You think you can use the same amount and God forbid, you know what I'm saying?
So, you know, that's and that's how a lot of people unfortunately succumb to that addiction is because of that.
Do you consider DXM addiction, the cough suppressant, the gateways other things for you?
(29:27):
Or that just was no matter what, that's what you chose to do even when you tried other things.
I don't think I was like, like I said, you know, I would be in a new area without any money and it became my drug of choice because out of out of default.
It was just access.
Yeah, because I couldn't find anybody.
(29:49):
And I guess that changed when I was in New York and I did actually start to make friends there.
Right.
But it was very easy to do easy to get.
Fact, I was doing so much of it that it was making me sick because I was abusing.
I started abusing core seeding, which has the same has the same active ingredient as Robie Dustin.
(30:12):
That's the DXM.
But I didn't know it at the time, but later on I researched it and your liver enzymes basically was called the core seeding stays in your in your system for longer.
It doesn't break it down.
Yeah, it doesn't break it down this way.
And so a lot of people don't realize that if you're going to do core seeding, you know, you got you're going to have to slow down a little bit because it can be.
(30:38):
Couple of days later and it's still in your it's still in your body.
Even if you don't have.
You don't experience it mentally, but it's there.
A lot of these medicines, the ones that we take every day, I take medicine every day for other reasons and.
They have different half lives and those half lives are what stay within your system.
And that's the point, right?
Because your body's slow releasing that your body doesn't have the top of the ability to to break certain medicines down just like that.
(31:06):
And that is how it that you're able to actually have these issues.
And I think at one point, like I said, I can say everybody, I have the book.
I know Ryan had sent me the ebook, but I wanted to buy the book because I love to actually have a book and read it and take notes and everything else.
And later on, you can tell the audience where they can get the book if they want to do that.
But the point of that was about three quarters of the way through.
(31:28):
I wanted to read as close our interview as possible, but I did notice at some point to see some point you did end up in the hospital.
Because what it did to you.
And I had a hard time convincing people that I want that I needed to go to the hospital.
It was like I would tell people, I think my breaking point was we McDonald's.
(31:51):
And I think I like like four french fries.
And I wasn't able to hold it down and threw up and like that's how sick I was.
And they were finally like, okay, we'll take you to we'll take you to the mixed blessing because on the one hand.
You know, I was getting help.
I was going to the hospital.
I was addressing while I was sick.
(32:13):
On the other hand, kind of really messed with the way that people looked at me and treated me like I was being treated as some hospitals,
hospital patient that was weak and sick and couldn't drink, couldn't use without getting sick and that I needed to be looked after supervised.
(32:38):
And it was just it was just a lot, you know, it's almost like it might have been better not to go to the hospital.
But maybe not necessarily because then you might not be here to tell the story.
You know, you heard for example, and I don't know, obviously you followed but like with Matthew Perry, for example,
you know, before obviously his untimely demise just recently, you know, he had taken so many pills at some point that his stomach was basically
(33:03):
has, you know, had exploded in the sense, you know, and I saw that.
Yeah.
And his book was fantastic too.
And it talks about being lucky and wondering why certain people make it through certain things and others don't.
You know, I find it interesting that, you know, even though we're all very hard headed, we're like, oh, I don't need to go to the hospital.
(33:27):
You know when you're not feeling right.
And it takes a lot for most of us to admit that we have a problem to admit that we need help.
So let me ask you something.
I just want to go back real quick to York.
You were staying in a halfway house there.
Were you, if you don't want me asking before that, how did you get to York?
Like where did that come into play where you got to York?
(33:48):
Like where were you beforehand that they said this is the place you should be?
Oh, obviously, you know, I was, I was sort of in and out of treatment.
I would always find a way to get kicked out, you know, like for example,
when I was at the mental ward for, I think it was four months,
(34:11):
I was finding ways to get to the store to steal Robotus and then at one point I scaled the fence and went over.
This was in a mental ward when we're not allowed to leave.
So I escaped.
Because you weren't there voluntarily.
You were committed.
(34:31):
Okay.
Yeah.
And I was sort of, sort of, facilitated.
I mean, I was put through the system.
I went to different treatment facilities.
My parents would sort of line up treatment facilities.
Eventually I got to where I was going to rehab.
14 days went by and I said, okay, I'm done.
(34:54):
I don't want to be here anymore.
And I was strongly recommended that I stay, you know, for the full 28 days.
And I wouldn't have it.
So they said, okay, pulled out the big binder and looked for available halfway houses.
(35:15):
I was in Maryland at the time.
And they found a halfway house in New York, Pennsylvania to attend.
They drove me up there in the van.
And I got out of the van and went to this halfway house and moved in.
And my substance abuse just continued.
(35:39):
I had some willpower about trying not to use once I got there.
Well, I can say that I think for me willpower, right?
And again, we are not comparing applesauce.
It's just right.
Because there's mental illness.
There's addiction.
Like I said, to, you know, to things like food, to drugs, anything can really be turned into an addiction, right?
(36:05):
Like, because willpower.
Now, I do think that at times they go hand in hand.
When you have something like a drug addiction, I can only imagine that the willpower it would take that the drug use wins out.
Because you know there's less, you know that there's knowledge around how it's going to make you feel.
(36:28):
And the known is better than the unknown.
Do you think that has something to do with for yourself at least for wanting to continue using?
It's just a level of, sure, I can use my willpower and I can try my hardest and stop or I can just say screw it.
I'm in this situation.
(36:49):
I know how I want to feel.
And this gets me there.
I'm going to continue using.
I think, um, well, thing about willpower is it's like not not going to help you much in the long run with addiction.
It's sort of a one of the best arguments for having a higher power is that we all we all try to give it a cold turkey.
(37:13):
We all tried to use our willpower to get past it.
And, you know, it requires a higher power to.
Sort of alter that situation a little bit.
I always reasoned that.
(37:35):
You know, you mentioned you mentioned battling.
Or 1 in 1 in 10,000 chance or something like that.
You know, needing a.
Needing a higher power because every time I step in the ring with addiction, I lose my willpower.
(37:56):
I mean, most addicts have tried that.
They've tried.
Tried willpower and you need that that higher power to.
Sort of balance balance the equation a little bit.
Be grounded.
We all need to be grounded and we need something higher to ground us.
(38:19):
That's definitely how I see it.
I've said that a bunch of times actually on this podcast is it for me again, being a family member wife of sorts at this point, but more of a.
A strange wife at this point seeing your family member someone you care for going through that and knowing there's nothing else you can do for it.
(38:42):
It's very hard, not just on the person, obviously, but on the family.
And I know one point in your book, you actually say that when you're in that struggle, when you're in.
That addict state of mind, you think it's all about you and you don't realize the damage you do to the, you know, to the people that care about you.
(39:03):
But it doesn't, but it's not that you don't care.
It's that you're at that point.
It's just that's what it is.
And I understand that being again, the family member of someone who has mental illness, which got exacerbated by alcohol and drugs.
Is it?
Yeah, that's what happened to me.
Yeah.
And it's understandable, you know, and coming from the other side of that.
(39:26):
It's it's heartbreaking to see somebody you love and care about go through.
Go through.
We are free willed people, individuals.
That's how we were created.
So when you're not able, you know, and it's not always even in a drug situation, but when you're not able to, you know, have somebody conform to what you want them to be, whatever the case may be, you know, it can.
(39:49):
It also it causes that tension as well.
So that's very, it's really, really hard.
You know, and I can see it from, you know, obviously from both sides.
We're getting closer to the end, but I wanted to ask you because I know we didn't talk about it and it's a huge part of your book is how you worked as a temp in Hershey.
(40:10):
And one of their candy plants, if I think I'm understanding that correctly, it was one of their candy plants based on on what you were describing in the book.
What I did not get out of the book is and it may be in volume two, which I'll ask you about in a bit.
But what exactly when you were in when you were working there and I know you were struggling hard through that and going and you know, the people weren't the most pleasant either because you were you were all temps that was different races, their languages, people just trying to get some money and get to the day.
(40:41):
How does that exactly end up?
I mean, do you end up permanent there?
Do you end up staying there?
I mean, like, you know, it just I just I'm curious as to what ends up and you don't have to go into a lot of these.
So if you want to, you have to read the finished reading the book to find out, I'm sure.
But when you were you ever there full time, like it was just it just seems like there was a lot going on that factor where you were working.
(41:06):
And I'm just curious how that ended up for you.
Yeah, the the 10 pages I worked for was kind of like on a rotation where one day they would send you somewhere and another day they would send you somewhere else.
So I worked at the Hershey plant for.
(41:26):
I don't know how many weeks maybe like a month.
That was it really.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then sort of get, you know, yeah, it's it's very much like.
The supervisor of the temp agency will sort of call out in the morning and find out what places need people and send people to the places that are needed.
(41:52):
And it's really inconsistent with where I'm actually going to work.
And just saying that and that makes sense that you're saying that because the way you have the book broken down is like months at a time.
It's just it's such a gripping almost character kind of like the way you described York almost like a character.
It almost feels like you were there for forever.
(42:12):
So it's very it's really interesting the way you describe your days in the factory that I almost felt like it was when you just like a month.
I'm like, my goodness, I felt like it was like a year you were there.
And at one point they talk about maybe making you a permanent, you know, make you a permanent position.
And I assume that that's it.
I assume that didn't happen.
(42:33):
The last thing I do want to ask you and I don't want to necessarily say that we discussed it before, but looking back at the person you were during the events of the book.
Being that that was I believe 2007.
How do you see that version of yourself now?
Like how do you look back at that version of yourself now?
I don't think that writing has.
(42:53):
While it has changed however you might pass.
I was in no good junkie with no regard for the suffering of others.
Especially my parents was delusional.
I was delusional probably because I was not seeing a doctor from my mental illness about right and wrong.
And the inability of what I was doing or using.
(43:15):
Then I got help and all that changed his progress.
I'm sorry this prognosis has been the same ever since I got clean today.
I'm less delusional and I care about the well being of others.
The twilight is almost like a truth serum.
In hoping in hopes of letting of hitting readers with the truth.
(43:38):
But I did not need to write it to understand this.
Interesting.
Very interesting.
So if you could look back now.
And this is right off the cuff of my head.
If you could look back now and tell yourself something.
Back then do you have any idea what that would be?
(44:01):
Piece of advice, a piece of hope.
I mean anything at the time you know that you might want to tell yourself back then.
Yeah I would probably tell myself to take my medication.
Oh amen yeah.
And to accept help sooner.
That's a good one.
(44:22):
Yeah.
That's a good one because so many and again when I say so many people I mean so many of us.
Sometimes feel where we can do either do it ourselves or above that or we don't need it.
And sometimes there is no other way to get it you know to get your life together.
So my last question for you.
Given that this is volume one.
(44:44):
Can you give us a glimpse of what we just can expect in the subsequent volumes?
How will your story evolve from here?
And when might we be looking into volume two?
So volume two is supposed to come out in February of next year.
All written in polish and everything.
(45:06):
My publisher will probably find more corrections to make.
But it's a bit of a sensitive.
Is that sorry?
They usually do I'm sure.
Yeah yeah that's a volume two.
It really has a resolution like.
For instance my mom and dad wanted to write an epilogue for volume one.
(45:30):
Because they thought that it needed some direction.
Needed some explanation of kind of what I was going for in volume one with the.
Reaching out to others and sobriety and I know that volume two is a sort of a resolution of volume one.
The end of volume two I eventually leave York.
(45:52):
And my mom and my brother picked me up from York dating back to Baltimore.
And I finally you know accept help and the end of volume two is my ultimate sobriety date.
That was back in you know 2007.
I've been clean since 2007.
(46:13):
Amen that's fantastic.
That's fantastic.
And I'm looking forward to reading volume two so I think I meant to see before you have to let me know.
And then I can always do a follow up and let our readers know as well.
I think the fact that it's so raw made it relatable.
Yeah yeah I get that I get that compliment a lot that it's raw.
(46:37):
It is it is a compliment because putting yourself out there is not easy.
Oh I know yeah I thought it would be a fun it would be super easy because I try to be open.
My opinion on being open especially if you're in recovery is that it's easier to be open than to worry about who knows what or who knows that you
(46:58):
attend a meetings and the guy knew a lot of people that would probably probably be more if I if you know their friends and they went to a I just find it easier to
have openness.
How are you feeling today.
I mean like if you could look yourself in the mirror or if you did and based on what you've been through how are you feeling today.
(47:20):
Are you hopeful.
Are you planning for the future.
Are you just taking it one day at a time.
I always say we should always take everything one day at a time.
But I mean for yourself mentally physically emotionally spiritually whatever it may be how are you feeling today.
I don't remember the exact words but somebody said something along the lines of things are okay or things are pretty good.
(47:42):
I'm pretty good is good enough to compare it to you.
Some of the things that I've been through I think you know I live the life that I live today is a great great success so I'm grateful for that.
Sure.
I was going to ask you if I could read read another excerpt of my own.
(48:07):
Oh my God please do please.
This is from chapter one when they finally when they finally went to bed to lay there feeling alive.
The sounds on the street carried in through the open windows though it had died down into the late hours of the night.
Silent but for an occasional car driving past a drunk or a whore yelling down the street quarters.
(48:33):
Shrill voices lamenting undulating then trading through every open window for blocks coloring dreams as the city slept.
Outside the world was a light and an eerie bright orange glow from the street lamps.
The old dirty windows blurred and refracted the light accentuated it making the whole world orange.
(48:57):
Breeze came in through the open windows and it felt cool and good.
The sounds of locusts were serene and harmony.
The balmy air had plans that funky indoor stuff in his smell created by the three of us in tight space and cleared away the musty smell scale sealed in in the old house.
(49:21):
And as the air filled the room I fell asleep on a soft cloud of tranquility.
The pure vision that you get when listening to that or when reading it is so tangible almost.
Can I read one more?
Yes, you can definitely read one more.
(49:43):
I appreciate that. Thank you.
I appreciate your praise and that means a lot especially because you're such an avid reader.
Thank you.
Okay.
This chapter 11.
We were supposed to meet at the same tattoo parlor.
The one next to the meeting.
(50:04):
Our unit our usual spot.
And she made me promise I will come.
It was the first and only time we plan to do something beyond spend time in her garage.
Look at two tattoo art.
Like an unofficial date.
I took the bus to where we were meeting an hour later and now I'm sorry I'm an hour late.
(50:26):
I saw her through the window waiting for me but I did not get off.
And I saw the look on her face as the bus drove past when it hit her I was not coming.
I saw such pain and terror on her face.
The loneliness.
She knew when she saw the doors closed when I did not get off that I was not coming.
(50:49):
And she knew what it meant.
Of course she did.
I really hope to God she did know because I had stood her up.
I was afraid I had broken her heart.
I saw the Norse faces I had mine.
It was a face of utter dejection of heartbreak indescribable.
I knew I had cause a face of loss like the faces of denizens after a town had been burned to the ground.
(51:17):
I've swallowed up an entire wave.
Catastrophies carrying away all the ash and smoke of memories.
Lost tremendous loss desperately clutched at the body cold.
I saw on her face whenever crude despairing mortal pain proceeded grief.
In other words may contain little or in their utter failure at the task.
(51:41):
Her practice and art proven that tremendous lacking.
The work is not even enough to predict to betray a semblance of what I saw here.
Her face.
Hail and flushed was a beautiful mother rose medley and owed about an ocean with its bottom carved out by a dull rusted blade.
(52:02):
Her eyes were downcast tethered by the immense.
Implepable.
Implepable.
It does talk about a few.
I'll say I'll say relationships that you had.
While under the influence and with Lenore especially and I'm still getting through your story with Lenore actually reading it at this point.
(52:24):
You do mention the very beginning.
How you have some.
I'll use the words regrets but that might not be the correct word of the way things worked out with her and the way that you felt you treated her.
Is that along the correct lines based on the way that you described your relationship with her?
Whereas she was very forward it seems.
(52:45):
She was a very very independent forward forward woman.
Yes I thought.
You know and that was that was part of the fictionalization.
I felt like I had developed a relationship with her.
I just sort of bailed back out of it seeing her through the window.
I think that was probably a fictionalized way I could get into fictionalization.
(53:09):
You know I don't remember exactly how it played out but I did kind of back out.
I stopped talking to her and I didn't know exactly how attached she was.
All these years later is she okay?
(53:31):
Do you know?
No I don't know.
The only person I was able to contact was Mack or Alexander wasn't doing so good.
He had some court dates and jail time and.
Sorry to hear that.
Yeah.
It's a it's a it's a road that shouldn't be for anybody realistically.
(53:53):
We know it's part of the human experience but it shouldn't be for anybody.
You know that's that's an that's an existence that is hard to imagine if you're not in the mind of somebody who is in that space.
Does that make sense?
I think so you're saying you're saying just the struggles of going to jail.
(54:18):
Well jail is a part of it sure right like this jail there's there's doing thing doing specific things that some people do to get access to their.
Drug of choice you know to get money for their drug of choice to sustain the addiction to the mental illness that comes with it to losing family members and the support because of it and you know and and not knowing every day with the homelessness as well how you're going to survive on top of trying to sustain this addiction.
(54:46):
It's very it's a very hard.
It can be a very hard you know you'll hear some people say well just don't do drugs.
And I've heard that myself it is not it doesn't work that way.
You know it does not work that way.
Oh why can't they just stop.
It's kind of like if you're in a abusive relationship.
Why don't they just leave.
Yes that's the stigma.
(55:07):
I thought I've talked to addicts that you know have held up stores and there's a distinction between you know criminal wants money and they hold up the store for money and I've heard of addicts talking about.
You know they have a gun in their hand and they literally watch themselves raise the gun at somebody and.
(55:33):
Their their arm as it goes up is being propelled by craving by addiction not propelled by.
Because it's not the evil intent of just trying to do whatever a criminal may do this is this is just out of.
It's like not his arm but it's not.
(55:55):
It's like watching for yourself as another person like watching someone else do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pretty much.
Unbelievable.
Thank you so much Ryan for being on with me Ryan please tell our listeners where they can get more info on you and where they can buy the book if they choose to.
So I have a Facebook.
(56:17):
If you look at my name Ryan Gray.
And it's got the 12 Twilight and York banner on the top.
I have a website.
Twilight in York.com which has some more information on the book and has a link to Amazon.
And this way to buy the book is on Amazon so we just get on Amazon and type Twilight in York.
(56:48):
And leave a review as well because that helps I'm sure yes leave a review that helps a lot.
And as always to our listeners you can reach me at Perseco Queens podcast at gmail.com for any info questions comments or if you have a story you'd like to tell and are interested in possibly being a guest.
I'm available at Perseco Queens podcast on IG and Tiktok as well as on YouTube where you can watch and listen.
(57:15):
Please like subscribe review and share we can continue growing with your continued support which I'm grateful for.
I'm also grateful for my guests today.
Before we go remember.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction recovery or thoughts of suicide help is always within reach.
Call the National Helpline for Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services at 1-800-662-HELP or 1-800-662-4357 or reach the suicide and crisis lifeline at 988.
(57:45):
You're not alone and there's always hope.
Thank you again to Ryan for being here and telling us your story and to our listeners for joining us and we'll see you next time on Rider Dacrub Team's Perseco Queens.
Stay strong stay connected and remember your story isn't even close to over yet.
Thank you very much.
Bye bye. Thank you.
In this episode, we engage in a very candid conversation about serious subjects,
(00:04):
including but not limited to drugs and mental health through the lens of the author's real life experiences.
Please be advised that the discussions may delve into sensitive topics that can be triggering for some listeners.
The stories shared by our guests are personal and reflect their individual journey.
While we aim to foster understanding and awareness, we are not mental health professionals,
(00:26):
and our conversations are not a substitute for professional advice, diagnosis, or treatment.
If you or someone you know are struggling with mental health issues or substance abuse,
we encourage you to seek help from qualified professionals, your well-being is paramount,
and there are resources available to support you.
Listener discretion is advised.
Thank you for joining us on this journey.
(00:51):
Hello, Prosecco Queens fam.
I am your host, Teresa, and thank you for joining us for this new episode.
So the people closest to me know that I am and have always been an avid reader.
At any point in time, I'm reading at least five books at once that range from self-help to autobiographies
and literally just about everything in between.
And today, I have the privilege of talking with Ryan Gray,
(01:13):
who is the author of the book, Twilight in York, Volume 1,
whose story took me in from the very beginning.
In the dim shadows of struggle and the relentless pursuit of hope,
Ryan Gray emerged with a story that reflects the human spirit's capacity for perseverance.
His memoir, A Work of Creative Nonfiction, delves into the turbulent, latter stages of addiction
(01:35):
before finding a path to recovery in 2007.
This deeply personal narrative isn't just an account of adversity,
but a beacon of hope for others who walk a similar road.
Through vivid storytelling, Ryan captures the rawness of addiction
and the quiet strength required to overcome it.
His journey demonstrates that there is a solution and he is living proof of it.
(01:56):
His memoir serves not only as a testimony to survival,
but as a message to those still lost in the darkness.
There's always a way out and with it, the promise of a new beginning.
I am looking forward to getting into the gritty details with Ryan
and because addiction touches every family in one way or another, including in my household,
regardless of economic standing, race, color, creed, or the multitude of ways we can diversify ourselves.
(02:19):
I think this is not only an important story to tell,
but one that will hopefully open minds and create a level of empathy
that we all need for those who have or still may be struggling.
I am pleased to introduce Ryan Gray, the author of Twilight in York Volume 1.
Welcome to the show, Ryan.
Hello. Thank you for having me. I appreciate being on the show. I really do. Thank you.
(02:39):
This book has really gripped me. I think that your storytelling is so unique at its best.
I think it's raw. It's gritty.
I think we mentioned before I am enjoying it too much.
And the reality is I feel bad saying that because it's your life story and it's real.
And I don't want you to think I'm like, yeah, I'm enjoying what you went through,
(03:02):
but the way you tell it is gripping.
So if you don't mind telling me, telling our listeners,
what made you feel so comfortable being so raw and personal in this storytelling?
And how did it start? How did the idea of it start?
So it started out as a project for a class. It was a short story.
(03:26):
I studied literature creative writing.
I had to work out my bachelor's, but it started out as a project for a class.
It was a short story and where a student suggested I write the whole story out frame by frame.
This seemed like a golden idea. It was simple and yet so far reaching.
(03:51):
To take the template, we would have these workshop classes.
The most important part of being a creative writing major is the workshop classes
because they give you writing assignments and you write them out
and then we take turns critiquing each other's work just to take the template I had started with,
which was a true story about an act on the street and run with it.
(04:12):
Turn it into a narrative by presenting in a chronological order,
telling the whole story and leaving nothing out.
So I got started in that class.
Then I had a publisher, a local publisher for a few years.
As I was working with her, there was a feeling of reaching out in a creative and artistic way.
(04:33):
There was a purging of emotion or catharsis.
I was helping others in a spiritual way.
Publisher was actually a Christian publisher.
I'm not that big on Christianity, but she was a Christian publisher and she specialized in abuse.
We both decided that addiction is a form of abuse.
(04:59):
You could call it self abuse.
Agreed.
But it is something a big carol act fan, Jack Carol Act, is my favorite author.
I don't know that I've read anything of his actually.
Now that you're saying that, I don't know that I've read anything of his.
On the road, it's his biggest, most famous work.
(05:19):
But what I wanted was something literary that was creative, that was artistic.
But I also wanted to write something that carried the message of recovery.
So my publisher at the time was really gung-ho about the recovery aspect.
And I was considering for a while taking out the message of recovery and just having an artistic sort of literary book.
(05:46):
She was very big about that, about reaching out, helping other people.
Just because of her background with the Christian thing and carrying the message sort of became more apparent, more kind of crystallized.
That was what I needed to do.
I understand that and I don't want to cut you off, but I understand that in a sense.
(06:08):
And I can see definitely having some creative differences.
It's a little hard too when certain publishers, I can imagine, have a certain idea.
You have that back and forth.
And I understand in her sense, the Christian part of it, because that's what gives people the hope.
But sometimes that every story works out that way.
(06:31):
I'm going to use the term bless in that sense because that's how I speak.
That's how I would see it.
And so I understand, but I also think sometimes, and this is the dichotomy of it, the other side of that, I think,
is that not every story ends up like yours.
So it's like sometimes you have to show the realities of the darkness in order to find that light.
(06:51):
But not every story finds that light.
And we've all lived, and I can probably say that with confidence, we all at some point, we're all six degrees of separation,
have known people who have not lived through the darkness into the light.
You know what I'm saying?
So that's a really interesting,
I would say not an interesting choice for you, but I think that it's very between you and her.
(07:15):
I think almost that it was a really good idea to have both of you put your voices in there because that as you're reading it,
you know, with this volume one, notice there is, and we'll talk about volume two later on, like how that's going to be.
But with volume one, you can tell that there is times that you do exude a bit of hope and you say,
(07:38):
okay, I'm going to do better this time. I'm not going to do it this time.
This is going to be the one that works and this is going to be the time that works.
And it's like, okay, that's it.
I'm not going back to this again.
And then of course, the demon follows.
You know, we know that.
And again, we, like I said, in my own household just recently, we had, and it wasn't me personally,
(07:58):
and we had, we had it in, you know, alcoholism and drug addiction in my household and other addictions that we won't go into.
So I had to make those choices to say, unfortunately, the same choices that your family had to make where it was,
we can't do anything else anymore.
You know what I'm saying?
Like this, it's a personal decision, but we know for you, and we're going to talk about this as well,
(08:21):
there was the mental health aspect of it, which to me, to be honest with me, to be honest with you and my audience as well,
is addiction of any kind that is a mental illness in itself.
We all have certain addictions.
I've said before in other episodes, mine has always been like a food addiction, right?
I've had food addiction.
(08:42):
I've had exercise addiction.
You know, I've had, what's the other one, procrastination.
That's not addiction, but that's a mental issue.
You know what I'm saying?
When we all have things that we struggle with and some worse than others, and I appreciate, I appreciate how throughout your book,
you throw in those areas of, I got this this time, I'm going to do better.
(09:06):
And then you show that you're human and you fall back.
I think that's really, I think that's really good.
Again, I'm going to say storytelling, even though technically is what you were living at the time.
Right, right.
What I want to do, because we want to talk about what your drug of choice was.
I don't even know that I'm saying it properly, but what I want to do before we go into that is to have three small excerpts from your book
(09:29):
that I want to read.
And it kind of goes into the whole background of what we're going to talk about even more.
And then you can, you know, obviously talk about what your drug of choice was.
Because I know towards the end of the book, you talk about at that point, that was your drug of choice, but that didn't even matter.
It was about, you know, it was about what was available, what you were doing and what you and your cohorts were doing as well at the time.
(09:52):
I wouldn't necessarily say friends, because I don't know, you know, if they ended up as, you know, if you can consider that friends
or just people living the same life as you at the time.
But at the time, it's just kind of like like-minded people, right?
That's really what it is when I say, you know, cohorts, it was like-minded people.
I know each of you had a drug of choice.
And then at one point, it was like, well, we're just going to do what we have available.
I'm going to read the three of them and then we'll go from there.
(10:16):
You know, our audience will enjoy it.
I can guarantee you that.
It was indeed my story.
Each event was filtered through my own perspective.
What actually happened immediately followed by the impression it made on me.
Sometimes I was able to jot down an important detail.
Before my excessive drug use, I always had a good memory.
Everything in York took place somewhere between concrete, objective reality in my own inner world.
(10:42):
Through all, the DXM definitely pushed me back further inside and agitated the state of my mental health.
I had my initial hospitalization following the aforementioned break.
I had jumped from a second story window, got up and jumped again.
It was then that I started to learn what drugs could do to a mentally ill brain.
(11:03):
I stopped paying rent as I was mostly broke.
I was living in a half finished basement at the time, about a mile from the main campus.
When I had no money for food, cigarettes or drugs, I started to steal.
I stopped showering, shaving, brushing my teeth, no hygiene whatsoever.
I remember attending class once while I was manic, thoughts racing.
(11:25):
I was sure everyone in the world could smell me.
At this time, I became irrational and had many confused delusional conversations with my parents,
asking them that I were there.
Were their murders committed or firm?
Were their murders committed at our former home?
Were they conspiring against me?
Showing aggression and even making threats.
(11:45):
They tried to coax me towards some stabilization by paying my rent and tuition,
but only on the condition that I find a job, see a psychiatrist, stop using drugs and achieve moderate grades.
I became fully reclusive, would not answer the door or come out of my room.
When I stole, I stole Robotus and Coff Medicine.
(12:05):
I no longer had any friends or money.
So I was short of a way to get high.
I drank whole eight ounce bottles with increasing frequency.
The amount of dextromethorphan, DXM, in my blood was toxic on a regular basis.
Because I had stopped taking care of myself, my room had rotten food, ants, broken glass and a clogged toilet.
(12:31):
My parents visited my room near campus and saw the way I was living, in Squalor.
They called the police and had them shuttle me to the nearest hospital.
I went quietly.
From there, I was processed, inserted into the system.
My consciousness at that time was hard to determine.
That's deep.
That's deep down bottom.
(12:52):
Do you feel that that was your bottom or was that just the beginning?
That was the beginning.
That was the beginning.
Mental health, I always thought the ratio I always had in my head was, you know, I'm on a downward spiral.
But my downward spiral is about four times more rapid than theirs is.
(13:14):
Because being as mentally ill as I am, and I am very mentally ill, I have schizophrenia, depression, social anxiety, general anxiety, ADHD.
Because I have all of that, you know, if I use or drink, my downward spiral is just much more, much more rapid, much faster.
(13:38):
So that excerpt about living in Squalor, yeah, that was only the beginning.
I mean, it got much worse very quickly.
And was that in your college?
That was your college?
Like, were you living in college?
Yes.
Yeah, that was my, I had to get pulled out of college for medical reasons.
(14:01):
I think my dad called the dean and had him like it was past the point where I could withdraw from the class.
But I forget what the code was called.
It was like an x something, where it says your grade is x.
I don't remember what it was called, but he was able to get through the dean and allow me to withdraw.
(14:24):
I didn't know the way past the F level and down to X.
Yeah.
Yeah, that was while I was in college.
It's, that's when it all started in college.
My drug abuse, you know, it started with marijuana.
I was never a huge drinker, but I did drink some.
I used to smoke when I was in college.
I used to smoke marijuana every day.
(14:45):
The only brush I've had with the law was we got busted for drug paraphernalia.
We didn't have enough.
We only had a little bit of marijuana, so they couldn't charge us for possession, which was very lucky.
Because we always had a good amount, but this, we just happened to not really have much.
(15:06):
So there was that.
And then the psychotic break that you mentioned about the jumping from the window.
That was right around the time that I was using marijuana every day.
And then I started taking Adderall.
That's when I started taking DXM.
So it was like the gateways, basically.
(15:27):
Pretty much.
So why and not that I encourage, not that I encouraged it to get worse, obviously, but why DXM?
Now, when I ask that question, it's interesting because I remember, for example, Lil Wayne years ago had like, you know, passed out, had seizures.
They used to mix it with like, Sprite.
When things like that, I used to think to myself, first of all, you talk about Robotussin.
(15:49):
That was one of the nastiest medicines I have to this day.
It's still one of the grossest medicines, but it's not about the taste of the medicine.
It's about what it does for you.
The taste, the taste is actually because this pharmaceutical company is like Robotussin.
Trying to deter people from abusing it by making it taste really bad.
(16:10):
Makes sense.
Makes sense.
I know you talk about in your book how schizophrenia basically is really like the devil's work.
And those were your words that I could completely understand.
Agree with that.
I guess I have polo at my house and with the drug use, it just exacerbated.
The mania, right?
And it started with marijuana, but it went to alcohol and in other addictions at that point as well.
(16:32):
So for you, did DXM give you what's just that high that you needed to calm down?
Based on the book, it seems like it was kind of like there were times that it was made to kind of calm you down and just take you out of your head because of the mental illness.
Was that what the pull was from it?
You know, that's a good question.
It's kind of a chicken before the end.
Before the thing is the mental health caused the addiction the other way around.
(16:59):
Got it.
I personally, I started using it because, you know, especially if I was like, I found I would find myself broke.
And and I would be in new areas.
So even if I did have the money, I wouldn't know where to buy drugs from.
(17:21):
Or who to buy drugs from.
So my, what I would do is I would, I would steal it from a drug store.
And there's actually a lot of become a pretty big problem with teenagers because it's so easy to get.
One time when I went to went to buy DXM, there was like a person at a computer and she had a system.
(17:48):
And I don't know if it was just that county or just that state, but they they kept track of how many bottles of Robotus and you had bought like in the past month.
They did start doing that around the nation.
Actually, I remember that.
Yes.
Yeah.
Wow.
So I guess that makes sense.
I mean, I wouldn't have thought about it that way that it's just basically a supply and demand situation.
(18:11):
Right.
Like if you need it, there's you're going to find a way to get it.
You know what I'm saying?
I guess I didn't really think about that.
And that kind of actually takes me to my next point, which is, which is interesting.
When your story begins for volume one, when your story begins, you talk about how you are let off in York, Pennsylvania for a halfway house.
(18:33):
Interestingly enough, I had never heard of York, but I know it's not far from Hershey and I've been to Hershey a few times.
And for me, that's only an hour and a half away, actually, barely two hours from where I live.
I was just at Hershey a year ago.
So in that sense, so the way you describe York is interesting, almost like it's a character in itself in the book.
(18:55):
Was that a conscious choice or was that just because you just happened to be there at that point in time when you were getting towards your lowest or trying to get better at the same time?
Do you think that if it was another place, it might have been just a significant because I don't know anything about York, but the way you talk about York.
(19:15):
Surprised me, actually, to be honest with you, I wouldn't have known it to be such an urban environment to the way you describe it.
So York has a high minority population or I don't know if the honestly, I don't know if it's the whole of York.
The places where I was staying, the parts of towns where I was, and I feel like the rest of York was a minority population in the street life persona was new to me.
(19:43):
I had to allow myself to be impacted by it, to let it change me.
I had a CD wallet full of alternative rock and metal, but the average citizen, New York was more of a hip hop or like a bop identity I was not familiar with.
And if I was familiar with it, I was not familiar with being surrounded by it, with it being the ammo of the area.
(20:08):
It's different.
I don't know if you remember the Superman song, it's a hip hop song, and it was very popular at the time and I was amazed how many people were playing that song.
It's different for a white guy to be surrounded by mostly black people all the time.
I required a lot of adjustment and alterations to my most basic central identity.
(20:31):
Most of my friends were black, the second main character, the main character, but the second main character is Puerto Rican.
But I was welcome with open arms and I was treated as one of the full by my new friends and any of my previous friends.
I found them to be more cordial and compassionate.
(20:52):
One group let me sleep on an inflatable mattress in their basement for free for months.
Very little was asked of me, but the transition from alternative rock as a white boy to hip hop was hard core.
I remember nearly throwing my CD wall out off the bridge over the creditors street.
There's a sense of brotherhood between people on the street and I never felt discriminated against or mistreated for being white.
(21:19):
Quite the opposite, in fact.
The setting I was in was a cultural one, a culture that goes unaccepted and it's something I want to talk about too, that I accepted unacknowledged, swept under the rug.
Yet we have our own music and our own arco.
We are pretty much the underbelly of the beast, likened to system works.
(21:41):
People try to avoid us with a sense of culture and places like York is profound.
I was trying to describe the city's atmosphere and the people I encountered there influencing me.
York sort of has an overarching reality, but I was amazed.
And maybe this is my failure to do good.
(22:05):
I kind of looked online like Google and looked at YouTube pages and I was able to find very little street life, especially as a culture.
I discovered a whole culture that was very apparent to me as I was living within it, you know, in York with mostly black people.
(22:27):
It's very interesting, I think, because a lot of times we get put into situations that we either weren't raised in or weren't expecting to.
And human nature is to adapt, right?
It's to adapt, is to try to survive and adapt.
And I know one of the, there's a few scenes in there where you meet up with a few gangs of people that you're not quite sure how to handle it first.
(22:50):
And then they seem to, you know, and what it does when you're reading it is it kind of keeps you on edge.
You wonder as you're reading it, is this going to be like a jail situation where like you have to do certain things for your own survival to, you know, join certain groups, certain gangs for your own survival for protection.
And it doesn't necessarily always turn out that it doesn't turn out that way, which is really interesting to me.
(23:11):
It's like, you kind of go back and you're like, wait a second, they didn't have the intentions that I thought that they were going to have in the beginning.
And it seems to be a theme throughout the book, which I thought was really interesting.
One of the things that I enjoy, you just talked about, you know, the Puerto Rican, your Puerto, your Puerto Rican friend, which is funny, weirdly enough.
(23:32):
But you describe this relationship with him and I want to assume it's who you're talking about. So I'm not going to say the name that I'll leave that to you if you want to do that.
But he became like a brother to you.
How did having him by your side impact your journey?
Because it's always interesting when you find people that are not just necessarily, I won't say like-minded, but are at a different point in their struggle.
(23:57):
That they can take somebody under their wing who is deeply struggling.
So for you, what did this bond mean to you with this person? And by the way, do you still keep in contact with this person?
I tried to make an archetypal, like I said, I'm big on caroac and the beat generation.
On the road has an extroverted prison, felon mentality character. He's known for doing things like driving from California to New York in four days, not sleeping, high energy, charismatic.
(24:41):
And I wanted to represent that Puerto Rican main character as an archetype of person's name in real life.
The archetypal person was Neil Cassidy, in the book on the road.
He's given the name Dean Moriarty. He's given the name Cody Pomeray in other books.
(25:06):
But he is the, I feel like my friend is the embodiment of the urban street one New England cowboy, like charismatic, always by my side.
We looked after each other as we were both on the streets trying to survive.
He was selfless with me. He never asked for anything from me, but the butt of the cigarette I was finished with shared his friends and copped whatever drug we were after.
(25:34):
His existence at my side kept me relatively safe. The folks who let me sleep in their basement were friends of his.
So we had a hand in that to my homeless status.
Without him, I would have been aimless, purposeless. I would have, I would have no direction without him, you know, story.
And I would probably be dead from overdose. Like many of my friends from that time were.
(25:57):
Most of my friends that I used with at that time actually passed away from overdose.
Still were. Yeah, they were, they were heroin addicts.
The main character.
Stames Alexander given the nickname Mac.
It was a very unique type of addict because.
(26:18):
For example, I knew somebody who smoked one cigarette a day and I didn't understand how, how they were able to do that. Mac was the type that.
You know, he would, he would, he would use harder drugs.
But not, not get hooked on them.
He had a different level of tolerance for certain, for certain uses and certain drugs and others.
(26:43):
Yeah, it seems like a meant that's a, that's a, that's definitely a mental thing as well. That's.
That's also to me.
That's very indicative of to me, that's actually indicative of hardcore because that means that like you not only have control over your.
Over your mental and what you know what I mean, what you're doing. Some things are more of a choice than others. I think that's interesting.
(27:10):
Who.
Here of that because you're right. I know some people that also say, oh, I only smoke one a day or, you know, I only have one after I eat. For example, just a cigarette.
We know how highly addictive nicotine is, right? And I'm going to say right now, based on these other addictions, I'll say it's a lower addiction.
We know it's just as bad as terrible.
Regardless of that, we know that I say the same thing.
(27:31):
I'm like, how, how have you not gotten to the point that you are a complete pack a day smoker or two pack a day smoker?
And for me, I think that's a very strong mental.
That's a very strong mental because it's still.
You still have that addiction in the sense of you still have to have it after every meal, for example, or once a day, right?
(27:55):
It's more it's very habit. It's a habit forming issue.
And I think that's the same. That might be the same idea with with your friend.
He didn't get to the point necessarily of it being habit forming.
He was he was able to say, I can dabble in this and I can dabble in that and I can dabble at this and still go on with my life.
But he was still to the point that he was in a similar situation as you.
(28:17):
So that just shows that there's levels of mental illness and addiction easily.
Yeah. Yeah.
Very unique. I mean, like in my travails, I've met a lot of a lot of addicts.
And it's very rare to see somebody who's in complete control, even if he's trying like cocaine or heroin.
(28:42):
Most people, once they try heroin, they never put it down.
Yeah. Yeah. And he's able to do heroin and not not want it again for a couple of weeks.
If that which is really dangerous, too, isn't it something like heroin?
I mean, they're all dangerous.
What you were using was building up in your system.
(29:03):
Right. That's extremely dangerous.
Something like heroin is like you don't do it for a few weeks, a few months or whatever, and your body doesn't have the same tolerance.
And you know what I mean?
You think you can use the same amount and God forbid, you know what I'm saying?
So, you know, that's and that's how a lot of people unfortunately succumb to that addiction is because of that.
Do you consider DXM addiction, the cough suppressant, the gateways other things for you?
(29:27):
Or that just was no matter what, that's what you chose to do even when you tried other things.
I don't think I was like, like I said, you know, I would be in a new area without any money and it became my drug of choice because out of out of default.
It was just access.
Yeah, because I couldn't find anybody.
(29:49):
And I guess that changed when I was in New York and I did actually start to make friends there.
Right.
But it was very easy to do easy to get.
Fact, I was doing so much of it that it was making me sick because I was abusing.
I started abusing core seeding, which has the same has the same active ingredient as Robie Dustin.
(30:12):
That's the DXM.
But I didn't know it at the time, but later on I researched it and your liver enzymes basically was called the core seeding stays in your in your system for longer.
It doesn't break it down.
Yeah, it doesn't break it down this way.
And so a lot of people don't realize that if you're going to do core seeding, you know, you got you're going to have to slow down a little bit because it can be.
(30:38):
Couple of days later and it's still in your it's still in your body.
Even if you don't have.
You don't experience it mentally, but it's there.
A lot of these medicines, the ones that we take every day, I take medicine every day for other reasons and.
They have different half lives and those half lives are what stay within your system.
And that's the point, right?
Because your body's slow releasing that your body doesn't have the top of the ability to to break certain medicines down just like that.
(31:06):
And that is how it that you're able to actually have these issues.
And I think at one point, like I said, I can say everybody, I have the book.
I know Ryan had sent me the ebook, but I wanted to buy the book because I love to actually have a book and read it and take notes and everything else.
And later on, you can tell the audience where they can get the book if they want to do that.
But the point of that was about three quarters of the way through.
(31:28):
I wanted to read as close our interview as possible, but I did notice at some point to see some point you did end up in the hospital.
Because what it did to you.
And I had a hard time convincing people that I want that I needed to go to the hospital.
It was like I would tell people, I think my breaking point was we McDonald's.
(31:51):
And I think I like like four french fries.
And I wasn't able to hold it down and threw up and like that's how sick I was.
And they were finally like, okay, we'll take you to we'll take you to the mixed blessing because on the one hand.
You know, I was getting help.
I was going to the hospital.
I was addressing while I was sick.
(32:13):
On the other hand, kind of really messed with the way that people looked at me and treated me like I was being treated as some hospitals,
hospital patient that was weak and sick and couldn't drink, couldn't use without getting sick and that I needed to be looked after supervised.
(32:38):
And it was just it was just a lot, you know, it's almost like it might have been better not to go to the hospital.
But maybe not necessarily because then you might not be here to tell the story.
You know, you heard for example, and I don't know, obviously you followed but like with Matthew Perry, for example,
you know, before obviously his untimely demise just recently, you know, he had taken so many pills at some point that his stomach was basically
(33:03):
has, you know, had exploded in the sense, you know, and I saw that.
Yeah.
And his book was fantastic too.
And it talks about being lucky and wondering why certain people make it through certain things and others don't.
You know, I find it interesting that, you know, even though we're all very hard headed, we're like, oh, I don't need to go to the hospital.
(33:27):
You know when you're not feeling right.
And it takes a lot for most of us to admit that we have a problem to admit that we need help.
So let me ask you something.
I just want to go back real quick to York.
You were staying in a halfway house there.
Were you, if you don't want me asking before that, how did you get to York?
Like where did that come into play where you got to York?
(33:48):
Like where were you beforehand that they said this is the place you should be?
Oh, obviously, you know, I was, I was sort of in and out of treatment.
I would always find a way to get kicked out, you know, like for example,
when I was at the mental ward for, I think it was four months,
(34:11):
I was finding ways to get to the store to steal Robotus and then at one point I scaled the fence and went over.
This was in a mental ward when we're not allowed to leave.
So I escaped.
Because you weren't there voluntarily.
You were committed.
(34:31):
Okay.
Yeah.
And I was sort of, sort of, facilitated.
I mean, I was put through the system.
I went to different treatment facilities.
My parents would sort of line up treatment facilities.
Eventually I got to where I was going to rehab.
14 days went by and I said, okay, I'm done.
(34:54):
I don't want to be here anymore.
And I was strongly recommended that I stay, you know, for the full 28 days.
And I wouldn't have it.
So they said, okay, pulled out the big binder and looked for available halfway houses.
(35:15):
I was in Maryland at the time.
And they found a halfway house in New York, Pennsylvania to attend.
They drove me up there in the van.
And I got out of the van and went to this halfway house and moved in.
And my substance abuse just continued.
(35:39):
I had some willpower about trying not to use once I got there.
Well, I can say that I think for me willpower, right?
And again, we are not comparing applesauce.
It's just right.
Because there's mental illness.
There's addiction.
Like I said, to, you know, to things like food, to drugs, anything can really be turned into an addiction, right?
(36:05):
Like, because willpower.
Now, I do think that at times they go hand in hand.
When you have something like a drug addiction, I can only imagine that the willpower it would take that the drug use wins out.
Because you know there's less, you know that there's knowledge around how it's going to make you feel.
(36:28):
And the known is better than the unknown.
Do you think that has something to do with for yourself at least for wanting to continue using?
It's just a level of, sure, I can use my willpower and I can try my hardest and stop or I can just say screw it.
I'm in this situation.
(36:49):
I know how I want to feel.
And this gets me there.
I'm going to continue using.
I think, um, well, thing about willpower is it's like not not going to help you much in the long run with addiction.
It's sort of a one of the best arguments for having a higher power is that we all we all try to give it a cold turkey.
(37:13):
We all tried to use our willpower to get past it.
And, you know, it requires a higher power to.
Sort of alter that situation a little bit.
I always reasoned that.
(37:35):
You know, you mentioned you mentioned battling.
Or 1 in 1 in 10,000 chance or something like that.
You know, needing a.
Needing a higher power because every time I step in the ring with addiction, I lose my willpower.
(37:56):
I mean, most addicts have tried that.
They've tried.
Tried willpower and you need that that higher power to.
Sort of balance balance the equation a little bit.
Be grounded.
We all need to be grounded and we need something higher to ground us.
(38:19):
That's definitely how I see it.
I've said that a bunch of times actually on this podcast is it for me again, being a family member wife of sorts at this point, but more of a.
A strange wife at this point seeing your family member someone you care for going through that and knowing there's nothing else you can do for it.
(38:42):
It's very hard, not just on the person, obviously, but on the family.
And I know one point in your book, you actually say that when you're in that struggle, when you're in.
That addict state of mind, you think it's all about you and you don't realize the damage you do to the, you know, to the people that care about you.
(39:03):
But it doesn't, but it's not that you don't care.
It's that you're at that point.
It's just that's what it is.
And I understand that being again, the family member of someone who has mental illness, which got exacerbated by alcohol and drugs.
Is it?
Yeah, that's what happened to me.
Yeah.
And it's understandable, you know, and coming from the other side of that.
(39:26):
It's it's heartbreaking to see somebody you love and care about go through.
Go through.
We are free willed people, individuals.
That's how we were created.
So when you're not able, you know, and it's not always even in a drug situation, but when you're not able to, you know, have somebody conform to what you want them to be, whatever the case may be, you know, it can.
(39:49):
It also it causes that tension as well.
So that's very, it's really, really hard.
You know, and I can see it from, you know, obviously from both sides.
We're getting closer to the end, but I wanted to ask you because I know we didn't talk about it and it's a huge part of your book is how you worked as a temp in Hershey.
(40:10):
And one of their candy plants, if I think I'm understanding that correctly, it was one of their candy plants based on on what you were describing in the book.
What I did not get out of the book is and it may be in volume two, which I'll ask you about in a bit.
But what exactly when you were in when you were working there and I know you were struggling hard through that and going and you know, the people weren't the most pleasant either because you were you were all temps that was different races, their languages, people just trying to get some money and get to the day.
(40:41):
How does that exactly end up?
I mean, do you end up permanent there?
Do you end up staying there?
I mean, like, you know, it just I just I'm curious as to what ends up and you don't have to go into a lot of these.
So if you want to, you have to read the finished reading the book to find out, I'm sure.
But when you were you ever there full time, like it was just it just seems like there was a lot going on that factor where you were working.
(41:06):
And I'm just curious how that ended up for you.
Yeah, the the 10 pages I worked for was kind of like on a rotation where one day they would send you somewhere and another day they would send you somewhere else.
So I worked at the Hershey plant for.
(41:26):
I don't know how many weeks maybe like a month.
That was it really.
Yeah.
Okay.
And then sort of get, you know, yeah, it's it's very much like.
The supervisor of the temp agency will sort of call out in the morning and find out what places need people and send people to the places that are needed.
(41:52):
And it's really inconsistent with where I'm actually going to work.
And just saying that and that makes sense that you're saying that because the way you have the book broken down is like months at a time.
It's just it's such a gripping almost character kind of like the way you described York almost like a character.
It almost feels like you were there for forever.
(42:12):
So it's very it's really interesting the way you describe your days in the factory that I almost felt like it was when you just like a month.
I'm like, my goodness, I felt like it was like a year you were there.
And at one point they talk about maybe making you a permanent, you know, make you a permanent position.
And I assume that that's it.
I assume that didn't happen.
(42:33):
The last thing I do want to ask you and I don't want to necessarily say that we discussed it before, but looking back at the person you were during the events of the book.
Being that that was I believe 2007.
How do you see that version of yourself now?
Like how do you look back at that version of yourself now?
I don't think that writing has.
(42:53):
While it has changed however you might pass.
I was in no good junkie with no regard for the suffering of others.
Especially my parents was delusional.
I was delusional probably because I was not seeing a doctor from my mental illness about right and wrong.
And the inability of what I was doing or using.
(43:15):
Then I got help and all that changed his progress.
I'm sorry this prognosis has been the same ever since I got clean today.
I'm less delusional and I care about the well being of others.
The twilight is almost like a truth serum.
In hoping in hopes of letting of hitting readers with the truth.
(43:38):
But I did not need to write it to understand this.
Interesting.
Very interesting.
So if you could look back now.
And this is right off the cuff of my head.
If you could look back now and tell yourself something.
Back then do you have any idea what that would be?
(44:01):
Piece of advice, a piece of hope.
I mean anything at the time you know that you might want to tell yourself back then.
Yeah I would probably tell myself to take my medication.
Oh amen yeah.
And to accept help sooner.
That's a good one.
(44:22):
Yeah.
That's a good one because so many and again when I say so many people I mean so many of us.
Sometimes feel where we can do either do it ourselves or above that or we don't need it.
And sometimes there is no other way to get it you know to get your life together.
So my last question for you.
Given that this is volume one.
(44:44):
Can you give us a glimpse of what we just can expect in the subsequent volumes?
How will your story evolve from here?
And when might we be looking into volume two?
So volume two is supposed to come out in February of next year.
All written in polish and everything.
(45:06):
My publisher will probably find more corrections to make.
But it's a bit of a sensitive.
Is that sorry?
They usually do I'm sure.
Yeah yeah that's a volume two.
It really has a resolution like.
For instance my mom and dad wanted to write an epilogue for volume one.
(45:30):
Because they thought that it needed some direction.
Needed some explanation of kind of what I was going for in volume one with the.
Reaching out to others and sobriety and I know that volume two is a sort of a resolution of volume one.
The end of volume two I eventually leave York.
(45:52):
And my mom and my brother picked me up from York dating back to Baltimore.
And I finally you know accept help and the end of volume two is my ultimate sobriety date.
That was back in you know 2007.
I've been clean since 2007.
(46:13):
Amen that's fantastic.
That's fantastic.
And I'm looking forward to reading volume two so I think I meant to see before you have to let me know.
And then I can always do a follow up and let our readers know as well.
I think the fact that it's so raw made it relatable.
Yeah yeah I get that I get that compliment a lot that it's raw.
(46:37):
It is it is a compliment because putting yourself out there is not easy.
Oh I know yeah I thought it would be a fun it would be super easy because I try to be open.
My opinion on being open especially if you're in recovery is that it's easier to be open than to worry about who knows what or who knows that you
(46:58):
attend a meetings and the guy knew a lot of people that would probably probably be more if I if you know their friends and they went to a I just find it easier to
have openness.
How are you feeling today.
I mean like if you could look yourself in the mirror or if you did and based on what you've been through how are you feeling today.
(47:20):
Are you hopeful.
Are you planning for the future.
Are you just taking it one day at a time.
I always say we should always take everything one day at a time.
But I mean for yourself mentally physically emotionally spiritually whatever it may be how are you feeling today.
I don't remember the exact words but somebody said something along the lines of things are okay or things are pretty good.
(47:42):
I'm pretty good is good enough to compare it to you.
Some of the things that I've been through I think you know I live the life that I live today is a great great success so I'm grateful for that.
Sure.
I was going to ask you if I could read read another excerpt of my own.
(48:07):
Oh my God please do please.
This is from chapter one when they finally when they finally went to bed to lay there feeling alive.
The sounds on the street carried in through the open windows though it had died down into the late hours of the night.
Silent but for an occasional car driving past a drunk or a whore yelling down the street quarters.
(48:33):
Shrill voices lamenting undulating then trading through every open window for blocks coloring dreams as the city slept.
Outside the world was a light and an eerie bright orange glow from the street lamps.
The old dirty windows blurred and refracted the light accentuated it making the whole world orange.
(48:57):
Breeze came in through the open windows and it felt cool and good.
The sounds of locusts were serene and harmony.
The balmy air had plans that funky indoor stuff in his smell created by the three of us in tight space and cleared away the musty smell scale sealed in in the old house.
(49:21):
And as the air filled the room I fell asleep on a soft cloud of tranquility.
The pure vision that you get when listening to that or when reading it is so tangible almost.
Can I read one more?
Yes, you can definitely read one more.
(49:43):
I appreciate that. Thank you.
I appreciate your praise and that means a lot especially because you're such an avid reader.
Thank you.
Okay.
This chapter 11.
We were supposed to meet at the same tattoo parlor.
The one next to the meeting.
(50:04):
Our unit our usual spot.
And she made me promise I will come.
It was the first and only time we plan to do something beyond spend time in her garage.
Look at two tattoo art.
Like an unofficial date.
I took the bus to where we were meeting an hour later and now I'm sorry I'm an hour late.
(50:26):
I saw her through the window waiting for me but I did not get off.
And I saw the look on her face as the bus drove past when it hit her I was not coming.
I saw such pain and terror on her face.
The loneliness.
She knew when she saw the doors closed when I did not get off that I was not coming.
(50:49):
And she knew what it meant.
Of course she did.
I really hope to God she did know because I had stood her up.
I was afraid I had broken her heart.
I saw the Norse faces I had mine.
It was a face of utter dejection of heartbreak indescribable.
I knew I had cause a face of loss like the faces of denizens after a town had been burned to the ground.
(51:17):
I've swallowed up an entire wave.
Catastrophies carrying away all the ash and smoke of memories.
Lost tremendous loss desperately clutched at the body cold.
I saw on her face whenever crude despairing mortal pain proceeded grief.
In other words may contain little or in their utter failure at the task.
(51:41):
Her practice and art proven that tremendous lacking.
The work is not even enough to predict to betray a semblance of what I saw here.
Her face.
Hail and flushed was a beautiful mother rose medley and owed about an ocean with its bottom carved out by a dull rusted blade.
(52:02):
Her eyes were downcast tethered by the immense.
Implepable.
Implepable.
It does talk about a few.
I'll say I'll say relationships that you had.
While under the influence and with Lenore especially and I'm still getting through your story with Lenore actually reading it at this point.
(52:24):
You do mention the very beginning.
How you have some.
I'll use the words regrets but that might not be the correct word of the way things worked out with her and the way that you felt you treated her.
Is that along the correct lines based on the way that you described your relationship with her?
Whereas she was very forward it seems.
(52:45):
She was a very very independent forward forward woman.
Yes I thought.
You know and that was that was part of the fictionalization.
I felt like I had developed a relationship with her.
I just sort of bailed back out of it seeing her through the window.
I think that was probably a fictionalized way I could get into fictionalization.
(53:09):
You know I don't remember exactly how it played out but I did kind of back out.
I stopped talking to her and I didn't know exactly how attached she was.
All these years later is she okay?
(53:31):
Do you know?
No I don't know.
The only person I was able to contact was Mack or Alexander wasn't doing so good.
He had some court dates and jail time and.
Sorry to hear that.
Yeah.
It's a it's a it's a road that shouldn't be for anybody realistically.
(53:53):
We know it's part of the human experience but it shouldn't be for anybody.
You know that's that's an that's an existence that is hard to imagine if you're not in the mind of somebody who is in that space.
Does that make sense?
I think so you're saying you're saying just the struggles of going to jail.
(54:18):
Well jail is a part of it sure right like this jail there's there's doing thing doing specific things that some people do to get access to their.
Drug of choice you know to get money for their drug of choice to sustain the addiction to the mental illness that comes with it to losing family members and the support because of it and you know and and not knowing every day with the homelessness as well how you're going to survive on top of trying to sustain this addiction.
(54:46):
It's very it's a very hard.
It can be a very hard you know you'll hear some people say well just don't do drugs.
And I've heard that myself it is not it doesn't work that way.
You know it does not work that way.
Oh why can't they just stop.
It's kind of like if you're in a abusive relationship.
Why don't they just leave.
Yes that's the stigma.
(55:07):
I thought I've talked to addicts that you know have held up stores and there's a distinction between you know criminal wants money and they hold up the store for money and I've heard of addicts talking about.
You know they have a gun in their hand and they literally watch themselves raise the gun at somebody and.
(55:33):
Their their arm as it goes up is being propelled by craving by addiction not propelled by.
Because it's not the evil intent of just trying to do whatever a criminal may do this is this is just out of.
It's like not his arm but it's not.
(55:55):
It's like watching for yourself as another person like watching someone else do it.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Pretty much.
Unbelievable.
Thank you so much Ryan for being on with me Ryan please tell our listeners where they can get more info on you and where they can buy the book if they choose to.
So I have a Facebook.
(56:17):
If you look at my name Ryan Gray.
And it's got the 12 Twilight and York banner on the top.
I have a website.
Twilight in York.com which has some more information on the book and has a link to Amazon.
And this way to buy the book is on Amazon so we just get on Amazon and type Twilight in York.
(56:48):
And leave a review as well because that helps I'm sure yes leave a review that helps a lot.
And as always to our listeners you can reach me at Perseco Queens podcast at gmail.com for any info questions comments or if you have a story you'd like to tell and are interested in possibly being a guest.
I'm available at Perseco Queens podcast on IG and Tiktok as well as on YouTube where you can watch and listen.
(57:15):
Please like subscribe review and share we can continue growing with your continued support which I'm grateful for.
I'm also grateful for my guests today.
Before we go remember.
If you or someone you know is struggling with addiction recovery or thoughts of suicide help is always within reach.
Call the National Helpline for Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services at 1-800-662-HELP or 1-800-662-4357 or reach the suicide and crisis lifeline at 988.
(57:45):
You're not alone and there's always hope.
Thank you again to Ryan for being here and telling us your story and to our listeners for joining us and we'll see you next time on Rider Dacrub Team's Perseco Queens.
Stay strong stay connected and remember your story isn't even close to over yet.
Thank you very much.
Bye bye. Thank you.
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