November 3, 2025 • 24 mins
A humiliating arrest on a college visit. A long drive home with a father’s hard words. And then a student camp where the gospel finally clicked. That sequence didn’t just clean up a teenager’s weekends—it set the course for a pastor, a church plant that grew from a living room to multiple campuses, and a family devoted to helping others meet Jesus in everyday moments.
We sit down with Pastor Jonathan "Pastor J" Howes to trace the arc from party culture to purposeful living. He explains how a single verse—“If anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation”—became a new identity, and how discipleship through sports gave him a model to follow on ordinary days. We unpack the question so many wrestle with: How do you really know you’re going to heaven? Pastor J lays out a clear, biblically grounded assurance rooted in grace, not a life scorecard, and shows why that security matters for mental health, resilience, and joy.
From there, we get practical. You’ll hear the three pillars that keep faith strong: join a Christ‑centered church, open the Bible daily, and commit to a small group that practices honest accountability. Pastor J shares his group’s “stay in the fire” rule and how simple daily check‑ins keep the flame alive. We also talk about Spiritual Moments, the devotional book he co‑wrote with his wife Jennifer, built to help families reclaim quiet, unhurried conversations around Scripture with icebreakers, short teachings, and prayer prompts. And we end with a challenge from Joshua 3: most moves of God start when we get our feet wet. If you’ve been waiting on certainty, this is your nudge to take the next step—invite, lead, serve—and trust God to meet you in motion.
If this conversation encouraged you, follow the show, share it with a friend who needs hope, and leave a quick review so more people can find the Road to Redemption. Your story might change when your toes hit the water.
For more information contact us at
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Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
SPEAKER_01 (00:00):
Well, welcome to Road to Redemption.
I'm John Martin, your host, andI'm so excited to be with a good
longtime friend of mine, PastorJonathan Howes.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
How are you?
I'm great, man.
It's awesome to be here, excitedabout being on the Road to
Redemption.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
Pastor Jay, as they call you.
I love that.
That's your kind of your nameand your church up there in
Georgia, right?
SPEAKER_00 (00:25):
Yeah, so I do a podcast with David Pollack, and
uh he was the one who firststarted calling me Pastor J.
And he and I played churchbasketball together.
So that's kind of how we got toknow each other.
We played basketball every week.
He he's probably the mostcompetitive person I've ever
been around.
He's calling me after churchbasketball games, suggesting who
(00:46):
should be in the startinglineup, the rotations.
But anyway, he started callingme Pastor Jay on the basketball
court, and that just that justtranslated.
Now just about everybody atchurch calls me Pastor Jay.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
I love that.
Yeah.
That's good.
So a little bit, tell us alittle bit about you.
So you you pastor church up inuh Loganville area of Georgia.
That's right, yeah.
And what's that called?
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
So uh Graystone Church.
Uh my wife and I started thechurch 22 years ago.
Uh we moved to Grayson, Georgiafrom Fort Worth, Texas.
I had gone to seminary in FortWorth, Texas, um, at
Southwestern Baptist.
I was pastoring some churchesout in Texas, and then I had
some friends who invited us tostart a church uh in Grayson,
(01:28):
Georgia.
So we moved to Grayson, Georgia2003.
And we began the church in ourliving room with about five
families, and so we had um youknow 10 to 20 adults in the
living room.
The kids read the kids'ministries up in my son's
bedroom, and uh, and so thatthat's that's where we began the
church 22 years ago.
Went from uh our living room toa daycare, from the daycare to a
(01:50):
rented warehouse facility, andthen we stepped out in faith and
bought land and built thebuilding, and and that now we're
a multi-site church.
We have three differentcampuses, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:59):
All kind of between Atlanta and Athens, that's
right, right?
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
Yeah, so the the main campus is there in
Loganville, Gwinnett County.
Okay, and we have one in Monroe,which is Walton County, and then
we have one in Bogart, which isO'Conee County, which is out
about 10 minutes from uhUniversity of Georgia.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Okay.
So we we're here in MiramarBeach, Florida, because you you
and I are both from MississippiGulf Coast.
That's how we know each othergrowing up on the Gulf Coast,
and you visit here in uh MiramarBeach.
So we're we're we're blessedthat we got to have you come in
today.
Uh but I thought we'd we'd heara little bit of your testimony.
(02:37):
Tell us about your yourupbringing and how you came to
know Christ.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
So I actually grew up unchurched.
Uh my dad was a Methodist, mymom was a Baptist.
They couldn't agree on whatchurch to go to, so we didn't we
didn't go to church growing up.
I was really into sports, playedtennis tournaments on the
weekends, we went fishing on theweekends, slept in on Sundays,
and uh we were what you call CEOChristians, you know, Christmas
(03:02):
and Easter only.
So we always went on Christmasand Easter.
Uh my parents had grown up gonegrown up going to church.
Uh but then we when we moved toGulfport, Mississippi, when I
was uh where you and I knew eachother, uh we were invited to go
to the local First BaptistChurch.
And uh so we started visitingFirst Baptist Church, Gulfport,
(03:23):
Mississippi.
Uh one Sunday, our whole familywalked the eye.
We joined the church.
My dad, my brother, and I wereall baptized that night.
Um, but I didn't understand whatit was all about.
I mean, I had no Bible knowledgewhatsoever.
But we started going to Sundayschool and church every every
week.
And I was your typical highschool kid, as you know, and so
(03:45):
you and I were part of a highschool fraternity, which is
which is crazy.
Um, the kind of things we weredoing as 15 and 16-year-old
kids, it was kind of an animalhouse type situation.
I don't know if you remember thethe turbo burp.
Yes.
Um the guys bought like a carand we cut the top off up.
(04:05):
We had the uh Phi Kappa logo andthe troll of the seat and the
trunk and the the beer tab onthe on the hood.
SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
And so we were pretty wild in high school.
And uh we we partied everyFriday and Saturday night.
I mean, underage drinking,getting drunk, you know, who you
don't want to go to any detailsthere.
Uh, but I was in church everySunday.
And so it's like it was like Iwas living a double life.
Like I would go to church onSundays, but then the other six
(04:35):
days of the week, I would dowhatever I want to do, kind of
kind of kind of living formyself.
But I think going to churchevery Sunday, being in Sunday
school every Sunday, I startedhearing, I started hearing the
Word of God and started beinginfluenced by the messages that
I was receiving.
And I don't know if you knewthis, but uh you're a big part
of my testimony because when wewere juniors in high school, we
(04:58):
went to Ole Miss one weekend.
I think it was uh homecomingweekend.
I don't know if you remember Isaw that we drove up there.
Yeah, and the whole way drivingto Ole Miss, we were like
drinking beer.
We had like a 24-pack, 12-pack,24-pack of beer.
We got up there and we werebeing uh rushed by the
fraternities.
And so we went at pizza andbeer.
SPEAKER_01 (05:19):
Yeah, I remember.
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
And then we started going around to the different
fraternity houses, and they haddrinks and everything, and I was
probably 135 pounds at the time.
I ended up passing out in inbetween two fraternity houses.
I don't know if you know this, Idon't know if you know the
story.
Yeah, and uh I was arrested forpublic intoxication, minor on
the influence.
(05:40):
They call my dad from the Oxfordpolice station, and this is I
don't know what time of thenight it was, but there was a
Sigma Kai, I think his name wasSteve Gunn or Scott Gunn.
Scott.
Scott Gunn.
He gets on the phone with my dadand he says, uh, Mr.
House, I don't drink.
Uh if it's okay with you, Ithink he said he was a
(06:00):
Christian.
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
Uh if Jonathan could could come home, he could spend
the night in my in my room atthe Sigma Kai house, he won't
have to spend the night in jail.
And I remember I went home,spent the night with him.
My parents picked me up at 9a.m.
the next morning.
And uh, you know, it's asix-hour drive from from Oxford
to Gulfport.
And so I rode all the way backto my parents, home with my
parents.
(06:22):
I was sick, we were pullingover, and uh, and my dad said,
son, it's like baseball, threestrikes and you're out, and this
is your third strike.
I had gotten caught drinking acouple of times before.
So I was grounded on probationand all this kind of stuff.
So I promised my mom thatsummer, summer before my senior
in high school, I'd go on thechurch camp, student ministry,
to Ridgecrest, North Carolina.
(06:43):
And I went up there and it wasAustin Smith and I were like the
only seniors.
And there were a few girls thatthey were our age.
But it's like I heard the gospelfor the very first time that God
loved me and had a plan for mylife.
But I was sinful and separatedfrom God.
I knew I was sinful.
I mean, I knew I'd mademistakes, and they shared that
Jesus Christ that died on thedied on the cross for my sins,
he paid the penalty for me.
(07:04):
And on the third day he rosefrom the grave.
And we too can can rise withChrist if we put our faith in
him.
And it's like a it's like alight bulb went off in my head
that like the gospel finallymade sense to me.
And it oh, this is why Easter isso important.
This is why we went to church onEaster, and so ended up
committing my life to Christ uhthat week up in Ridgecrest,
(07:25):
North Carolina.
I probably cried for about twohours afterwards because I was
so grateful that God wouldforgive me.
And when I got back, uh,everybody in our student
ministry, I was about to go playin a tennis tournament in uh
Hattiesburg, Mississippi, andthey had gotten together and
they'd all wrote me these littlenotes and put them in cards, and
they gave me an envelope foreach day of the week, each day,
(07:46):
each day of the tournament.
So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,and so on Monday I opened the
envelope and it had all theseencouraging notes from the kids
in the youth group and it hadBible verses.
And the first Bible verse that Iread was 2 Corinthians 5.17.
It says, Therefore, if anyone isin Christ, he is a new creation.
The old is gone and the new hascome.
And uh I remember claiming thatverse, that was the first verse
(08:08):
that I memorized.
My old life of sin was gone, mylife was changed, and now I'm
living this new life in Christ.
And so that's that's mytestimony of changed life, and
and my life pretty pretty muchchanged from from from that
moment on.
Almost 40 years now, that I'vebeen walking with God, living
for God.
Um, it's not doesn't mean I'mperfect, but I am I am heady,
(08:30):
I'm on the upward call ofChrist, trying to become more
like him and trying to growcloser to him uh every day.
So that's that's my story.
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
No, I love it.
I I remember that.
And and and I think you and Italked before that you know, we
really had a divine hedge ofprotection over us uh when we
were younger, you know, withjust drinking, doing things we
you know shouldn't have beendoing in excess, and just we
just pray that, you know, overour children because we you know
(09:01):
so much we we can teach them thebest and teach them about the
Bible, but you know, we just wehave to pray, and and God
definitely had a hedge ofprotection over over us, and
we're thankful for that.
And I was gonna say too, youprobably won that tennis
tournament in Hattiesburg.
You you I don't know.
This guy was really good.
Went on to play college tennis,and just uh we all we all
(09:25):
aspired to be Jonathan Howes,and none of us could do it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:30):
What's interesting how got guys used tennis in my
life.
So a month after I became aChristian, after my life
changed, Dean Register was thepastor of our church at First
Baptist Gulfport, and his nephewhad just come off of a Summer
Beach project with CampusOutreach, a guy by the name of
Keith Nix.
And they said, Hey Keith, youneed to meet Jonathan.
He's he's a brand new Christian,and uh he's he's he's a tennis
(09:51):
player.
And so Keith had played tennisat Jacksonville State
University.
He'd he was about to be asenior, and he and I ended up
playing tennis together.
I ended up actually beatingKeith, and he was a senior in
college, and I was gonna be asenior in high school, and Keith
started recruiting me to playtennis at Jacksonville State,
but he also started disciplingme, and so he would send me
(10:12):
Bible studies in the mail, booksto read in the mail, sort of
poured into me, discipling me asa brand new Christian, and he
recruited me to come toJacksonville State to play
tennis, but also to be discipledby him.
And that had a huge impact on mylife because he was a graduate
assistant on the tennis team.
David Barnett and I wereroommates.
(10:35):
Yeah, David ended up coming withme.
Uh I was able to get him on thetennis team as well.
He's a good player.
And so uh, but Keith, Keithwould spend the night in our
dorm room about three nights aweek, and he was four years
older than us, but he modeledfor us what it meant to be a
Christian in college.
And so he taught me how to havea quiet time and how to pray and
(10:58):
how to study the Bible and howto share the gospel, how to how
to disciple other people.
Like he he invested in me.
So having that older Christianto look up to, to be discipled
by, to model for us.
I even remember when he wasdating Kim, his wife now, I mean
he modeled for us, you know,what it was like to have a have
a Christian dating relationship.
(11:19):
And so um tennis played played abig part of a big part of my
life, what it got me throughcollege, paid for my college,
but also got me to JacksonvilleState where Keith discipled me
and poured into me.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
So that's cool.
Jonathan, what one of the thingsthat I've been noticing um just
talking to friends, you know,that I have here locally back in
Mississippi, about faith andhope, and is I I feel like a lot
of folks I talk to, they're not100% sure they're gonna go to
(11:51):
heaven.
They they would say they're aChristian, but I'll hear them
say a lot of things like, youknow, well, I think I think
hopefully I've done good enoughto get in.
I you know, it's kind of likehopefully, you know.
I've and I I feel like um I seea lot of you know, somewhat
almost works-based that if I cando enough, I can get in.
(12:14):
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat.
How does someone know for surethey're gonna go to heaven?
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
Yeah, I think so many people grew up with that
works-based mentality, and I andI had the same mentality, like
if my goods outweigh my bads,you know, God's gonna let me
into heaven.
And and even guys that I've beenin our church for years and I've
discipled for years, they'll saythings like, Well, I hope I've
done enough to get into heaven.
And I explain to them all thetime, like you could never do
(12:41):
enough to get into heaven.
Like, even our righteous actsare like filthy rags to God.
Like nothing we do is, you know,we're still impure and unholy,
and the only way to heaven isthrough through God's amazing
grace, through faith in Christ.
And in 1 John it says that if wehave the Son, we have eternal
life.
If we don't have the Son, wedon't have eternal life.
And even uh John said, I writethese things to you who believe,
(13:02):
so that you may know that youhave eternal life.
Like you can know that you haveeternal life, and if you have
Jesus, you have eternal life.
If you put your faith and putyour trust in him.
And I think one of the one ofstr one of the strategies of the
enemy, Satan, uh, is for us todoubt our salvation.
And one of the armors of Godthat we put on is the helmet of
(13:22):
salvation, is to protect ourmind from the doubts.
He wants us to doubt our ownsalvation, but we can be sure
that we're going to heavenbecause we have the Son.
And it's been sealed with theHoly Spirit.
You know, we have the HolySpirit in us, which is a deposit
guaranteeing our salvation inheaven.
And so for me, I always go backto that changed life.
(13:44):
Like, has your life changed?
Is the old life of sin gone?
And are you living a new life inChrist?
Because if your life is changed,you're you're a new creation.
You know, it's like acaterpillar turning into a
butterfly.
You can't go back to being thecaterpillar, like you were your
your life is has changed.
And so I do think that'ssomething that people struggle
(14:06):
with.
SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
Yeah, they do.
And and also, um in the worldwe're in today, people have a
lot, there's a lot of anxiety,depression, fear.
Um the world is a is atreacherous place.
And I know everything I read isthat God wants us to experience
heaven here on earth, or atleast some version of it.
(14:30):
And and and how do we do that,you know, with all the problems?
You know, any any advice onthat?
SPEAKER_00 (14:37):
I when you were talking about that, it made me
think of John 10 10, where itsays the the enemy comes to
steal and kill and destroy, butJesus says, I've come that you
may have life and have it to thefull.
And and the reason that Jesuscame, of course, was to die on
the cross and and uh and pay forour sins and give us the
opportunity to have eternallife.
(14:58):
But eternal life begins onearth.
Like eternal life is not justliving forever, but it's living
the highest quality of life.
It's living the good life, it'sliving the best life.
And and the life in Christ is somuch better than the the life of
the world.
You know, I wouldn't I wouldnever want to go back to the
drinking and the partying, andthat life was so empty because
(15:21):
it just leaves you wanting formore.
You know, you just it might giveyou a high at first, but then
you wake up the next morning andyou you just you feel terrible.
Where Christ is this this HolySpirit high, like it's a it's a
natural high that that He isHe's the well that doesn't run
dry.
I mean He He it's a fulfillinglife and and living for God and
(15:42):
being used by God to impactothers for for all eternity, to
see somebody else's lifechanged, and God allowed me to
play a small part in that.
I mean, there's there's nobetter feeling uh in the world.
And so I think uh you knowmental health issues,
depression, and those those arethose are those are real things.
(16:03):
Yeah.
And I think trying to combatthat with being in being in the
word of God, replacing the liesof Satan with the truth of God's
word, and constantly dwelling onthe word of God, thinking about
the word of God, praying aboutthings, instead of worrying
about things, pray about them,turn them over to God.
So but it I think depression,mental health issues, those are
(16:26):
those those are real issues thatpeople have these days, for
sure.
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
Well, that kind of ties into our three key pillars
that we have for the road toredemption, which is to get into
a Christ-centered church, go tochurch that will bless you,
it'll change your life.
Find a Christ-centered church inyour area and just go, and then
get get into the word of God,read the word of God every day.
(16:53):
Read your Bible.
If you don't have a Bible, getthe Bible out.
We we promise God will startspeaking to you through His
Word, and then get into a smallgroup.
A group that you can beaccountable to, be make yourself
vulnerable.
It it will bless you in so manyways to get into a small group
(17:14):
through your church.
And that that brings me to yourbook.
Folks, uh, Jonathan and his wifeJennifer wrote this great book
called Spiritual Moments.
52 Devotions for Families,couples, and small groups.
Tell us a bit about why you andJennifer decided to write this
book.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
Well, it looks like you've been using the book
because you got some coffeestains all over the country.
We got coffee, but it's blessed.
Which is awesome.
Well, the way the way that I'vegrown the most spiritually is
through a daily quiet time.
I mean, I love I love your threepillars.
Christ center church, smallgroup, daily quiet time.
And we we talk a lot about thatuh at our church and in our
(17:55):
small group.
I have a group of men that Imeet with weekly and disciple
and and pour into them, and wewe hold each other accountable
to that daily walk with God,that quiet time.
And one of the sayings that wehave in our small group is stay
in the fire.
And I shared with them anillustration one time, and I
don't know if you've heard thisillustration before, but that of
a campfire.
And so a campfire's burningbright, and you take you take a
(18:18):
log out of that fire, eventuallythat log is going to burn out.
But if you put that log back inthe fire, it's gonna catch fire
again.
And I've seen so many Christianstake themselves out of
fellowship, whether they quitcoming to church or they quit
coming to a small group, andthey're not around like-minded
people, and it's easy for thatflame to burn out.
And so we have the saying in ourin our small group is stay in
(18:41):
the fire.
Like stay in fellowship, stay inchurch, stay in the word of God.
And I get a text every day, theguys take a picture of their
quiet time and send it to me,and at the bottom will always
say, Stay in the fire.
And so for Jennifer and I, thiswas just one way we wanted we
wanted to make it super simpleand easy for families to have a
(19:02):
weekly devotional time.
And so it's something you can dojust sit sitting around the
table, you know, you and yourfamily, starts off with an
icebreaker, just some someinteresting questions just to
get the conversation going.
Like this one is about acrawfish bowl, which we love a
good we love a good crawfishbowl down the Mississippi Gough
Coast.
Absolutely.
But the icebreaker question iswhat is your favorite food?
(19:25):
Is there a snack that that youcan't have just one?
Are there certain foods youcrave?
And so it gets the kids talking,gets them talking around the
table, and then we have ateaching moment.
We'll we'll share a story, andthen it always relates to a
biblical truth, and then we havediscussion questions just to get
the kids talking, get the familytalking.
And then at the very end, it'sjust a simple, you know, what do
(19:47):
you want to pray about thisweek?
And we try to get different kidsto pray, different week, uh
different uh times we do thedevotion.
And then there's six other daysthat go with the topic, and so
it's trying to create, it'strying to build the habit for
our kids to have a daily quiettime.
And so one is, you know, ideallyto have it on a sunny night,
have it after dinner, uh, sharea meal together, and then have
(20:08):
the quiet time or have thedevotion together, and then we
have the daily verses, and soyou can text your kids.
Your kids may not be old enoughto have their own cell phones,
but those who do, you know, wecan we can text them the verse
of the day and hey, what did youget out of this verse and what
what can you learn from it?
But we really just it's just asimple book called Spiritual
Moments to try to get spiritualconversations going in the
(20:31):
family, whether it's in theliving room, uh bedtime, around
the dinner table, whatever,whatever the case may be.
Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:38):
It's a blessed us because it gives it just gives
you some structure to gettogether.
For us, it's getting away fromthe screens, you know, and and
and bringing the family togetherand what we were calling couch
time with our family, and tohave the icebreaker and just
spend some time.
You know, we do it in theevening before bed, you know, as
(21:00):
a family, is so importantbecause there are just so many
distractions out there withmainly the screens these days,
is if we can just put thoseaway, folks, and you can read
this great book, SpiritualMoments, Jonathan and Jennifer
Howes.
Really awesome.
I'm so thankful that y'all wrotethis book.
Uh Jonathan, is there anythingelse that you'd want to share
(21:22):
with folks that's on your heartbefore we go today?
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
One of the things I I was thinking about uh coming
in this morning, I don't know ifGod just laid it on my heart,
but the thought that every greatmove of God begins with a step
of faith.
And you go back to Joshuachapter 3, and and Joshua's
about to lead the Israelitesinto the promised land, and that
that was the goal to get intothe land of Canaan, the promised
(21:49):
land.
But they have the raging JordanRiver in front of them, and and
God gives them the instructionsfor the for the priest to take
the Ark of the Covenant, and thepriests were to step into the
water, and then God was going toperform a miracle.
And so they have to take thisstep of faith.
They have to get their get theirtoes wet.
And then once they step into thewater, then God does the miracle
and he stops up the JordanRiver, and about three million
(22:13):
people walk over on dry land.
And I talk to people all thetime who want to do great things
for God, they want to have ithave an impact for God, and
they're waiting on God to do amiracle.
And I think God is waiting onthem to take that step of faith.
And so uh, once the Israelitestook that step of faith in the
water, then God did the miracle,and then they were able to cross
(22:35):
over into the into the promisedland.
I think so many of us have goalsand dreams and visions that we
want to be used by God.
Well, we have to take that stepof faith.
And so my my encouragement topeople is to take that step of
faith.
Whatever that step of faith is,just to step out and trust.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
Instead of waiting on God to move, you move, you
take that step of faith, andthen trust God to Yeah, and a
lot of that is is with smallgroups, I think, because a lot
of people have thought aboutstarting a small group, but they
don't feel qualified.
They don't feel like, hey, I'mnot a pastor, or I'm a
(23:13):
businessman or woman, or mom, oryou know, so I think that's kind
of an example of something thata lot of people struggle with.
They don't feel qualified, butit's these days there's just so
many resources to do it.
And and and and people are sothankful that people open up
their homes or to do that.
(23:34):
So we we just encourage people,yeah, like you said, take that
step.
That's awesome.
Yeah, well, it's been good,Jonathan.
We're we're gonna go play alittle golf now, right?
I I know you went from tennis togolf.
I couldn't believe when I sawyou a few years ago and I said,
let's play some tennis.
She's like, No, I'm playing moregolf now.
So golf's his his sport passionnow, is that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (23:56):
Yeah, I I love playing golf.
Tent tennis is what I'm good.
I'm good at tennis.
Um but uh golf's a new challengefor me.
I've kind of got kind of got thebug.
Love playing.
I still play a little littletennis with my daughter and you
know, just for fun, but nothingnothing competitive.
So I I re when Federer retired,I retired.
We kind of retired at the sametime from tennis.
(24:18):
So but yeah, love love to playgolf.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
So yeah, good.
Well, thank you.
It's been a lot of fun, and Iknow this is gonna bless people.
Hey, hon honor to be here.
Well, welcome to Road to Redemption.
I'm John Martin, your host, andI'm so excited to be with a good
longtime friend of mine, PastorJonathan Howes.
SPEAKER_00 (00:12):
How are you?
I'm great, man.
It's awesome to be here, excitedabout being on the Road to
Redemption.
SPEAKER_01 (00:19):
Pastor Jay, as they call you.
I love that.
That's your kind of your nameand your church up there in
Georgia, right?
SPEAKER_00 (00:25):
Yeah, so I do a podcast with David Pollack, and
uh he was the one who firststarted calling me Pastor J.
And he and I played churchbasketball together.
So that's kind of how we got toknow each other.
We played basketball every week.
He he's probably the mostcompetitive person I've ever
been around.
He's calling me after churchbasketball games, suggesting who
(00:46):
should be in the startinglineup, the rotations.
But anyway, he started callingme Pastor Jay on the basketball
court, and that just that justtranslated.
Now just about everybody atchurch calls me Pastor Jay.
Yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (00:57):
I love that.
Yeah.
That's good.
So a little bit, tell us alittle bit about you.
So you you pastor church up inuh Loganville area of Georgia.
That's right, yeah.
And what's that called?
SPEAKER_00 (01:07):
So uh Graystone Church.
Uh my wife and I started thechurch 22 years ago.
Uh we moved to Grayson, Georgiafrom Fort Worth, Texas.
I had gone to seminary in FortWorth, Texas, um, at
Southwestern Baptist.
I was pastoring some churchesout in Texas, and then I had
some friends who invited us tostart a church uh in Grayson,
(01:28):
Georgia.
So we moved to Grayson, Georgia2003.
And we began the church in ourliving room with about five
families, and so we had um youknow 10 to 20 adults in the
living room.
The kids read the kids'ministries up in my son's
bedroom, and uh, and so thatthat's that's where we began the
church 22 years ago.
Went from uh our living room toa daycare, from the daycare to a
(01:50):
rented warehouse facility, andthen we stepped out in faith and
bought land and built thebuilding, and and that now we're
a multi-site church.
We have three differentcampuses, yeah.
SPEAKER_01 (01:59):
All kind of between Atlanta and Athens, that's
right, right?
SPEAKER_00 (02:03):
Yeah, so the the main campus is there in
Loganville, Gwinnett County.
Okay, and we have one in Monroe,which is Walton County, and then
we have one in Bogart, which isO'Conee County, which is out
about 10 minutes from uhUniversity of Georgia.
SPEAKER_01 (02:16):
Okay.
So we we're here in MiramarBeach, Florida, because you you
and I are both from MississippiGulf Coast.
That's how we know each othergrowing up on the Gulf Coast,
and you visit here in uh MiramarBeach.
So we're we're we're blessedthat we got to have you come in
today.
Uh but I thought we'd we'd heara little bit of your testimony.
(02:37):
Tell us about your yourupbringing and how you came to
know Christ.
SPEAKER_00 (02:41):
So I actually grew up unchurched.
Uh my dad was a Methodist, mymom was a Baptist.
They couldn't agree on whatchurch to go to, so we didn't we
didn't go to church growing up.
I was really into sports, playedtennis tournaments on the
weekends, we went fishing on theweekends, slept in on Sundays,
and uh we were what you call CEOChristians, you know, Christmas
(03:02):
and Easter only.
So we always went on Christmasand Easter.
Uh my parents had grown up gonegrown up going to church.
Uh but then we when we moved toGulfport, Mississippi, when I
was uh where you and I knew eachother, uh we were invited to go
to the local First BaptistChurch.
And uh so we started visitingFirst Baptist Church, Gulfport,
(03:23):
Mississippi.
Uh one Sunday, our whole familywalked the eye.
We joined the church.
My dad, my brother, and I wereall baptized that night.
Um, but I didn't understand whatit was all about.
I mean, I had no Bible knowledgewhatsoever.
But we started going to Sundayschool and church every every
week.
And I was your typical highschool kid, as you know, and so
(03:45):
you and I were part of a highschool fraternity, which is
which is crazy.
Um, the kind of things we weredoing as 15 and 16-year-old
kids, it was kind of an animalhouse type situation.
I don't know if you remember thethe turbo burp.
Yes.
Um the guys bought like a carand we cut the top off up.
(04:05):
We had the uh Phi Kappa logo andthe troll of the seat and the
trunk and the the beer tab onthe on the hood.
SPEAKER_01 (04:12):
Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (04:13):
And so we were pretty wild in high school.
And uh we we partied everyFriday and Saturday night.
I mean, underage drinking,getting drunk, you know, who you
don't want to go to any detailsthere.
Uh, but I was in church everySunday.
And so it's like it was like Iwas living a double life.
Like I would go to church onSundays, but then the other six
(04:35):
days of the week, I would dowhatever I want to do, kind of
kind of kind of living formyself.
But I think going to churchevery Sunday, being in Sunday
school every Sunday, I startedhearing, I started hearing the
Word of God and started beinginfluenced by the messages that
I was receiving.
And I don't know if you knewthis, but uh you're a big part
of my testimony because when wewere juniors in high school, we
(04:58):
went to Ole Miss one weekend.
I think it was uh homecomingweekend.
I don't know if you remember Isaw that we drove up there.
Yeah, and the whole way drivingto Ole Miss, we were like
drinking beer.
We had like a 24-pack, 12-pack,24-pack of beer.
We got up there and we werebeing uh rushed by the
fraternities.
And so we went at pizza andbeer.
SPEAKER_01 (05:19):
Yeah, I remember.
SPEAKER_00 (05:19):
And then we started going around to the different
fraternity houses, and they haddrinks and everything, and I was
probably 135 pounds at the time.
I ended up passing out in inbetween two fraternity houses.
I don't know if you know this, Idon't know if you know the
story.
Yeah, and uh I was arrested forpublic intoxication, minor on
the influence.
(05:40):
They call my dad from the Oxfordpolice station, and this is I
don't know what time of thenight it was, but there was a
Sigma Kai, I think his name wasSteve Gunn or Scott Gunn.
Scott.
Scott Gunn.
He gets on the phone with my dadand he says, uh, Mr.
House, I don't drink.
Uh if it's okay with you, Ithink he said he was a
(06:00):
Christian.
SPEAKER_01 (06:01):
Yeah.
SPEAKER_00 (06:02):
Uh if Jonathan could could come home, he could spend
the night in my in my room atthe Sigma Kai house, he won't
have to spend the night in jail.
And I remember I went home,spent the night with him.
My parents picked me up at 9a.m.
the next morning.
And uh, you know, it's asix-hour drive from from Oxford
to Gulfport.
And so I rode all the way backto my parents, home with my
parents.
(06:22):
I was sick, we were pullingover, and uh, and my dad said,
son, it's like baseball, threestrikes and you're out, and this
is your third strike.
I had gotten caught drinking acouple of times before.
So I was grounded on probationand all this kind of stuff.
So I promised my mom thatsummer, summer before my senior
in high school, I'd go on thechurch camp, student ministry,
to Ridgecrest, North Carolina.
(06:43):
And I went up there and it wasAustin Smith and I were like the
only seniors.
And there were a few girls thatthey were our age.
But it's like I heard the gospelfor the very first time that God
loved me and had a plan for mylife.
But I was sinful and separatedfrom God.
I knew I was sinful.
I mean, I knew I'd mademistakes, and they shared that
Jesus Christ that died on thedied on the cross for my sins,
he paid the penalty for me.
(07:04):
And on the third day he rosefrom the grave.
And we too can can rise withChrist if we put our faith in
him.
And it's like a it's like alight bulb went off in my head
that like the gospel finallymade sense to me.
And it oh, this is why Easter isso important.
This is why we went to church onEaster, and so ended up
committing my life to Christ uhthat week up in Ridgecrest,
(07:25):
North Carolina.
I probably cried for about twohours afterwards because I was
so grateful that God wouldforgive me.
And when I got back, uh,everybody in our student
ministry, I was about to go playin a tennis tournament in uh
Hattiesburg, Mississippi, andthey had gotten together and
they'd all wrote me these littlenotes and put them in cards, and
they gave me an envelope foreach day of the week, each day,
(07:46):
each day of the tournament.
So Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday,and so on Monday I opened the
envelope and it had all theseencouraging notes from the kids
in the youth group and it hadBible verses.
And the first Bible verse that Iread was 2 Corinthians 5.17.
It says, Therefore, if anyone isin Christ, he is a new creation.
The old is gone and the new hascome.
And uh I remember claiming thatverse, that was the first verse
(08:08):
that I memorized.
My old life of sin was gone, mylife was changed, and now I'm
living this new life in Christ.
And so that's that's mytestimony of changed life, and
and my life pretty pretty muchchanged from from from that
moment on.
Almost 40 years now, that I'vebeen walking with God, living
for God.
Um, it's not doesn't mean I'mperfect, but I am I am heady,
(08:30):
I'm on the upward call ofChrist, trying to become more
like him and trying to growcloser to him uh every day.
So that's that's my story.
SPEAKER_01 (08:38):
No, I love it.
I I remember that.
And and and I think you and Italked before that you know, we
really had a divine hedge ofprotection over us uh when we
were younger, you know, withjust drinking, doing things we
you know shouldn't have beendoing in excess, and just we
just pray that, you know, overour children because we you know
(09:01):
so much we we can teach them thebest and teach them about the
Bible, but you know, we just wehave to pray, and and God
definitely had a hedge ofprotection over over us, and
we're thankful for that.
And I was gonna say too, youprobably won that tennis
tournament in Hattiesburg.
You you I don't know.
This guy was really good.
Went on to play college tennis,and just uh we all we all
(09:25):
aspired to be Jonathan Howes,and none of us could do it.
SPEAKER_00 (09:30):
What's interesting how got guys used tennis in my
life.
So a month after I became aChristian, after my life
changed, Dean Register was thepastor of our church at First
Baptist Gulfport, and his nephewhad just come off of a Summer
Beach project with CampusOutreach, a guy by the name of
Keith Nix.
And they said, Hey Keith, youneed to meet Jonathan.
He's he's a brand new Christian,and uh he's he's he's a tennis
(09:51):
player.
And so Keith had played tennisat Jacksonville State
University.
He'd he was about to be asenior, and he and I ended up
playing tennis together.
I ended up actually beatingKeith, and he was a senior in
college, and I was gonna be asenior in high school, and Keith
started recruiting me to playtennis at Jacksonville State,
but he also started disciplingme, and so he would send me
(10:12):
Bible studies in the mail, booksto read in the mail, sort of
poured into me, discipling me asa brand new Christian, and he
recruited me to come toJacksonville State to play
tennis, but also to be discipledby him.
And that had a huge impact on mylife because he was a graduate
assistant on the tennis team.
David Barnett and I wereroommates.
(10:35):
Yeah, David ended up coming withme.
Uh I was able to get him on thetennis team as well.
He's a good player.
And so uh, but Keith, Keithwould spend the night in our
dorm room about three nights aweek, and he was four years
older than us, but he modeledfor us what it meant to be a
Christian in college.
And so he taught me how to havea quiet time and how to pray and
(10:58):
how to study the Bible and howto share the gospel, how to how
to disciple other people.
Like he he invested in me.
So having that older Christianto look up to, to be discipled
by, to model for us.
I even remember when he wasdating Kim, his wife now, I mean
he modeled for us, you know,what it was like to have a have
a Christian dating relationship.
(11:19):
And so um tennis played played abig part of a big part of my
life, what it got me throughcollege, paid for my college,
but also got me to JacksonvilleState where Keith discipled me
and poured into me.
SPEAKER_01 (11:30):
So that's cool.
Jonathan, what one of the thingsthat I've been noticing um just
talking to friends, you know,that I have here locally back in
Mississippi, about faith andhope, and is I I feel like a lot
of folks I talk to, they're not100% sure they're gonna go to
(11:51):
heaven.
They they would say they're aChristian, but I'll hear them
say a lot of things like, youknow, well, I think I think
hopefully I've done good enoughto get in.
I you know, it's kind of likehopefully, you know.
I've and I I feel like um I seea lot of you know, somewhat
almost works-based that if I cando enough, I can get in.
(12:14):
Talk to us a little bit aboutthat.
How does someone know for surethey're gonna go to heaven?
SPEAKER_00 (12:19):
Yeah, I think so many people grew up with that
works-based mentality, and I andI had the same mentality, like
if my goods outweigh my bads,you know, God's gonna let me
into heaven.
And and even guys that I've beenin our church for years and I've
discipled for years, they'll saythings like, Well, I hope I've
done enough to get into heaven.
And I explain to them all thetime, like you could never do
(12:41):
enough to get into heaven.
Like, even our righteous actsare like filthy rags to God.
Like nothing we do is, you know,we're still impure and unholy,
and the only way to heaven isthrough through God's amazing
grace, through faith in Christ.
And in 1 John it says that if wehave the Son, we have eternal
life.
If we don't have the Son, wedon't have eternal life.
And even uh John said, I writethese things to you who believe,
(13:02):
so that you may know that youhave eternal life.
Like you can know that you haveeternal life, and if you have
Jesus, you have eternal life.
If you put your faith and putyour trust in him.
And I think one of the one ofstr one of the strategies of the
enemy, Satan, uh, is for us todoubt our salvation.
And one of the armors of Godthat we put on is the helmet of
(13:22):
salvation, is to protect ourmind from the doubts.
He wants us to doubt our ownsalvation, but we can be sure
that we're going to heavenbecause we have the Son.
And it's been sealed with theHoly Spirit.
You know, we have the HolySpirit in us, which is a deposit
guaranteeing our salvation inheaven.
And so for me, I always go backto that changed life.
(13:44):
Like, has your life changed?
Is the old life of sin gone?
And are you living a new life inChrist?
Because if your life is changed,you're you're a new creation.
You know, it's like acaterpillar turning into a
butterfly.
You can't go back to being thecaterpillar, like you were your
your life is has changed.
And so I do think that'ssomething that people struggle
(14:06):
with.
SPEAKER_01 (14:06):
Yeah, they do.
And and also, um in the worldwe're in today, people have a
lot, there's a lot of anxiety,depression, fear.
Um the world is a is atreacherous place.
And I know everything I read isthat God wants us to experience
heaven here on earth, or atleast some version of it.
(14:30):
And and and how do we do that,you know, with all the problems?
You know, any any advice onthat?
SPEAKER_00 (14:37):
I when you were talking about that, it made me
think of John 10 10, where itsays the the enemy comes to
steal and kill and destroy, butJesus says, I've come that you
may have life and have it to thefull.
And and the reason that Jesuscame, of course, was to die on
the cross and and uh and pay forour sins and give us the
opportunity to have eternallife.
(14:58):
But eternal life begins onearth.
Like eternal life is not justliving forever, but it's living
the highest quality of life.
It's living the good life, it'sliving the best life.
And and the life in Christ is somuch better than the the life of
the world.
You know, I wouldn't I wouldnever want to go back to the
drinking and the partying, andthat life was so empty because
(15:21):
it just leaves you wanting formore.
You know, you just it might giveyou a high at first, but then
you wake up the next morning andyou you just you feel terrible.
Where Christ is this this HolySpirit high, like it's a it's a
natural high that that He isHe's the well that doesn't run
dry.
I mean He He it's a fulfillinglife and and living for God and
(15:42):
being used by God to impactothers for for all eternity, to
see somebody else's lifechanged, and God allowed me to
play a small part in that.
I mean, there's there's nobetter feeling uh in the world.
And so I think uh you knowmental health issues,
depression, and those those arethose are those are real things.
(16:03):
Yeah.
And I think trying to combatthat with being in being in the
word of God, replacing the liesof Satan with the truth of God's
word, and constantly dwelling onthe word of God, thinking about
the word of God, praying aboutthings, instead of worrying
about things, pray about them,turn them over to God.
So but it I think depression,mental health issues, those are
(16:26):
those those are real issues thatpeople have these days, for
sure.
SPEAKER_01 (16:30):
Well, that kind of ties into our three key pillars
that we have for the road toredemption, which is to get into
a Christ-centered church, go tochurch that will bless you,
it'll change your life.
Find a Christ-centered church inyour area and just go, and then
get get into the word of God,read the word of God every day.
(16:53):
Read your Bible.
If you don't have a Bible, getthe Bible out.
We we promise God will startspeaking to you through His
Word, and then get into a smallgroup.
A group that you can beaccountable to, be make yourself
vulnerable.
It it will bless you in so manyways to get into a small group
(17:14):
through your church.
And that that brings me to yourbook.
Folks, uh, Jonathan and his wifeJennifer wrote this great book
called Spiritual Moments.
52 Devotions for Families,couples, and small groups.
Tell us a bit about why you andJennifer decided to write this
book.
SPEAKER_00 (17:33):
Well, it looks like you've been using the book
because you got some coffeestains all over the country.
We got coffee, but it's blessed.
Which is awesome.
Well, the way the way that I'vegrown the most spiritually is
through a daily quiet time.
I mean, I love I love your threepillars.
Christ center church, smallgroup, daily quiet time.
And we we talk a lot about thatuh at our church and in our
(17:55):
small group.
I have a group of men that Imeet with weekly and disciple
and and pour into them, and wewe hold each other accountable
to that daily walk with God,that quiet time.
And one of the sayings that wehave in our small group is stay
in the fire.
And I shared with them anillustration one time, and I
don't know if you've heard thisillustration before, but that of
a campfire.
And so a campfire's burningbright, and you take you take a
(18:18):
log out of that fire, eventuallythat log is going to burn out.
But if you put that log back inthe fire, it's gonna catch fire
again.
And I've seen so many Christianstake themselves out of
fellowship, whether they quitcoming to church or they quit
coming to a small group, andthey're not around like-minded
people, and it's easy for thatflame to burn out.
And so we have the saying in ourin our small group is stay in
(18:41):
the fire.
Like stay in fellowship, stay inchurch, stay in the word of God.
And I get a text every day, theguys take a picture of their
quiet time and send it to me,and at the bottom will always
say, Stay in the fire.
And so for Jennifer and I, thiswas just one way we wanted we
wanted to make it super simpleand easy for families to have a
(19:02):
weekly devotional time.
And so it's something you can dojust sit sitting around the
table, you know, you and yourfamily, starts off with an
icebreaker, just some someinteresting questions just to
get the conversation going.
Like this one is about acrawfish bowl, which we love a
good we love a good crawfishbowl down the Mississippi Gough
Coast.
Absolutely.
But the icebreaker question iswhat is your favorite food?
(19:25):
Is there a snack that that youcan't have just one?
Are there certain foods youcrave?
And so it gets the kids talking,gets them talking around the
table, and then we have ateaching moment.
We'll we'll share a story, andthen it always relates to a
biblical truth, and then we havediscussion questions just to get
the kids talking, get the familytalking.
And then at the very end, it'sjust a simple, you know, what do
(19:47):
you want to pray about thisweek?
And we try to get different kidsto pray, different week, uh
different uh times we do thedevotion.
And then there's six other daysthat go with the topic, and so
it's trying to create, it'strying to build the habit for
our kids to have a daily quiettime.
And so one is, you know, ideallyto have it on a sunny night,
have it after dinner, uh, sharea meal together, and then have
(20:08):
the quiet time or have thedevotion together, and then we
have the daily verses, and soyou can text your kids.
Your kids may not be old enoughto have their own cell phones,
but those who do, you know, wecan we can text them the verse
of the day and hey, what did youget out of this verse and what
what can you learn from it?
But we really just it's just asimple book called Spiritual
Moments to try to get spiritualconversations going in the
(20:31):
family, whether it's in theliving room, uh bedtime, around
the dinner table, whatever,whatever the case may be.
Yeah, I love it.
SPEAKER_01 (20:38):
It's a blessed us because it gives it just gives
you some structure to gettogether.
For us, it's getting away fromthe screens, you know, and and
and bringing the family togetherand what we were calling couch
time with our family, and tohave the icebreaker and just
spend some time.
You know, we do it in theevening before bed, you know, as
(21:00):
a family, is so importantbecause there are just so many
distractions out there withmainly the screens these days,
is if we can just put thoseaway, folks, and you can read
this great book, SpiritualMoments, Jonathan and Jennifer
Howes.
Really awesome.
I'm so thankful that y'all wrotethis book.
Uh Jonathan, is there anythingelse that you'd want to share
(21:22):
with folks that's on your heartbefore we go today?
SPEAKER_00 (21:25):
One of the things I I was thinking about uh coming
in this morning, I don't know ifGod just laid it on my heart,
but the thought that every greatmove of God begins with a step
of faith.
And you go back to Joshuachapter 3, and and Joshua's
about to lead the Israelitesinto the promised land, and that
that was the goal to get intothe land of Canaan, the promised
(21:49):
land.
But they have the raging JordanRiver in front of them, and and
God gives them the instructionsfor the for the priest to take
the Ark of the Covenant, and thepriests were to step into the
water, and then God was going toperform a miracle.
And so they have to take thisstep of faith.
They have to get their get theirtoes wet.
And then once they step into thewater, then God does the miracle
and he stops up the JordanRiver, and about three million
(22:13):
people walk over on dry land.
And I talk to people all thetime who want to do great things
for God, they want to have ithave an impact for God, and
they're waiting on God to do amiracle.
And I think God is waiting onthem to take that step of faith.
And so uh, once the Israelitestook that step of faith in the
water, then God did the miracle,and then they were able to cross
(22:35):
over into the into the promisedland.
I think so many of us have goalsand dreams and visions that we
want to be used by God.
Well, we have to take that stepof faith.
And so my my encouragement topeople is to take that step of
faith.
Whatever that step of faith is,just to step out and trust.
SPEAKER_01 (22:52):
Instead of waiting on God to move, you move, you
take that step of faith, andthen trust God to Yeah, and a
lot of that is is with smallgroups, I think, because a lot
of people have thought aboutstarting a small group, but they
don't feel qualified.
They don't feel like, hey, I'mnot a pastor, or I'm a
(23:13):
businessman or woman, or mom, oryou know, so I think that's kind
of an example of something thata lot of people struggle with.
They don't feel qualified, butit's these days there's just so
many resources to do it.
And and and and people are sothankful that people open up
their homes or to do that.
(23:34):
So we we just encourage people,yeah, like you said, take that
step.
That's awesome.
Yeah, well, it's been good,Jonathan.
We're we're gonna go play alittle golf now, right?
I I know you went from tennis togolf.
I couldn't believe when I sawyou a few years ago and I said,
let's play some tennis.
She's like, No, I'm playing moregolf now.
So golf's his his sport passionnow, is that correct?
SPEAKER_00 (23:56):
Yeah, I I love playing golf.
Tent tennis is what I'm good.
I'm good at tennis.
Um but uh golf's a new challengefor me.
I've kind of got kind of got thebug.
Love playing.
I still play a little littletennis with my daughter and you
know, just for fun, but nothingnothing competitive.
So I I re when Federer retired,I retired.
We kind of retired at the sametime from tennis.
(24:18):
So but yeah, love love to playgolf.
SPEAKER_01 (24:20):
So yeah, good.
Well, thank you.
It's been a lot of fun, and Iknow this is gonna bless people.
Hey, hon honor to be here.
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