DOUG Talks To PETER WERBE about The Celebration of Life for JOHN SINCLAIR and Memories of Working Together

Episode Transcript

(00:00):
Yeah, hither to Detroit's Wheels Werby. Peter Werby there he is the media
mogul. How you doing. Ohman, I'm doing all right, Peter.
I hope you're doing well too,and thanks for joining us here at
Detroit's Wheels. Uh. You knowI mentioned you're a media mogul because you

(00:20):
know, you and I have workedat every rock station here in Detroit.
Yeah. You also not only that, but you were an editor of the
most notorious newspaper in you know,half the country, the Fifth of State.
And now I see you've even startedputting books out, So you are
truly a mogul. Peter, Idon't know. I here is Fifth the

(00:44):
State still still exists, still ispublishing after almost sixty years. Still,
you know, born and raised Hillin Detroit continues on the books. You
can just go to Peterwerby dot com, w RBE dot com. Okay,
oh yeah, we could still getthe book. Where do you get Where
do you find that Fifth the Statethese days? Is it printed or is
it just online? No, it'sstill it's a magazine. It's in print.

(01:07):
You go to Fitthistate dot org.Wow, Andy, there it all
is. Yeah, so in thenew book is called Eat the Rich.
I'm almost afraid to ask what it'sall about. Those Well, it's called
Eat the Rich and other interesting Ideas. Oh okay, Yeah, and it's
a it's a collection of the essaysthat I've written over the years for the

(01:30):
fits of State. Probably the mostfun book, though, is Summer on
Fire at Detroit, novel that setin our city in nineteen sixty seven,
in which you know, the cityexplodes. There's the Grandy Ballroom, anti
war demonstrations, chex dope, rockand roll, you know, everything that

(01:53):
made that era so fascinating. Andthat's where we come in with today's conversation
about our good friend who just recentlypassed away and who probably stood for every
one of those things you just mentioned, John Sinclair. Yeah, and Sinclair.
Actually, I don't know why Idid this, but all the characters

(02:15):
in the book, they've been looselymodeled on people that were real. John
Sanaire is the only person with theremain Now they talk about being bigger than
life or iconic, and it's almostit's overused those phrases. In those phrases,
but it really was true about John. He really did represent that era

(02:38):
and everything that went with it topeople his age and our age and people
younger. I'm just astounded how manylives he touched. Yeah, you're absolutely
right, and he did. Hetouched a lot of lives when and it's
kind of strange when you consider,you know, who he was, what

(02:59):
he was doing. But everybody lovedhim, and he was always so gracious
to uh, you know, totake the time to reach out, to
put his arm around you and andguide you. And you know, that's
one of the first things I rememberabout Johnson Clair. And I know we're
going to talk about the celebration oflife that you've got coming up this weekend,

(03:22):
but one of the first things Iremember, of course, is the
the MC five album, and Iwas fascinated to see he was listed as
the you know, the spiritual guidanceof the band, and and that's really
kind of who he was. Hewas like the spiritual guidance of of a
lot of us from around town.I used to see him as a young

(03:44):
guy. I'd see him down atPlum Street. But probably my biggest memory,
well, there were a few,but uh, you know, obviously
being at that ann Arbor Free JohnNow concert. We Sue and I got
a you know, an incredible chancesto be there per chance and saw John
Lennon and all of that. Butthe fact that he got out of jail

(04:08):
almost the next day is just stillan amazing event that happened, and Taylor
and changed his life. It changedhis life, right, And Johnson Clair
was, you know, one ofthe many martyrs for the war on people
called the War on drugs. Sohe served three different sentences for possession of

(04:29):
marijuana, including twenty nine months,and that free Johnson, Claire Rally and
Ann Arbor in seventy one tech theycould bring in John Lennon and Yokolono and
Stevie Wonder and Bob Seeger and youknow, Alan Ginsburg and the head of
the Black Panthers, and Lennon wrotea song for Johnson Clair. Yeah,
I mean, how amazing, howabsolutely amazing, And yet through all of

(04:54):
that he was still, you know, like I said, very gracious.
In the eighties, we did theGuitar Army benefit for the Chapter nine Vietnam
veterans, and all I had tosay to John and also Rob Tyner from
the MC five at the time was, you know, we're doing a benefit
for Vietnam veterans, and you canstop right there. They they were involved,

(05:17):
they were they definitely wanted to bea part of it. Surprisingly,
they were all about the troops,all about you know, the men and
women who fought. So, youknow, he had a lot of twists
and turns in his life. Butyou know, probably of all the people
still left, Peter you may knowhim the best. When when did you

(05:41):
originally meet him? Well, thiswill sound like I'm one hundred and four,
although I'm close to that. Imet it in nineteen sixty four.
He formed something called the Detroit Artist'sWorkshop and began working on the Fifth of
State the next year later, andhe he had a column called the Coat
Puller, that old thing, Heyman, let me pull your coat to

(06:03):
this, in other words, tippingyou off to things you didn't know about
before. And yeah, I meanhe did that all the time. They
lived right around Wayne State. He'dbeen in his photographer wife, Lenny Sinclair,
and he'd say, come on upstairs, man, and he'd clapped some
headphones on me, give me adoobie, and put on some wild John

(06:25):
Coltrane jazz, and you know that, there go your you know, uh,
there go your mind for the nexttwo hours. But he did that,
you know, not just individually,but you know, through his organizations
and through the publication. So itwas just amazing. Where was your first
real encounter with him? I mean, did you guys work on projects together

(06:46):
or was it just sort of,you know, sort of a mutual friendship.
Well, it was through the Stateis that. I saw it also
as an avenue for this burgeoning youthculture in the mid nineteen sixties. And
the idea. I mean, nowwe're all we all have publications, we
have our Facebook pages and whatever,but back then nobody had newspapers except you

(07:13):
know, the Droit News and theTroit Free Press and a few local papers.
And the idea that you could putradical ideas about culture, about sex,
about war, about you know,race, about women, about you
know, gay people. It wasan astounding opportunity and it really did change

(07:35):
change the culture, you know.I mean some people think for the worst.
I think for the best obviously,and John put together so many different
things. I was thinking about therock and roll revival that was also I
think that was in nineteen seventy oneas well, and only he could put

(07:59):
together Chuck Berry, the MC fiveand the Sun Raw Solar Orchestra and Ted
NuGen. You know, yeah,doctor John, I mean he he had
I mean he was known far andwhy the last gig that he did was
on February sixteenth of this year.He was flown flown first class to Paris,

(08:24):
France in his wheelchair so he couldread poetry for an hour. Wow,
I mean yeah, found it.Yeah, he was. He was
definitely known worldwide. And one ofthe one of the things I am so
happy about is that we did thatcelebration of life for Rodriguez. He was
thankfully still alive. He died abouta week later. But there was Johnson

(08:48):
Clair in failing health, and andyet he was up there for a good
hour reading poetry. He hung outall night. Uh you know, he
took phonographs with everybody. If yousee, after he passed away, there
were photos of just about everybody withJohn Sinclair. I mean, I don't

(09:11):
know who he didn't take a picturewith, but very generous of spirit.
People said that. You know,sometimes you know, people in the entertainment
industry, they get got put uponby people in there at a picture with
him. John would just say,sure, you know, here, take
a photograph. You're right all overthe internet people with with John. I

(09:33):
mean, there we a hashmash omy god. Yeah, yeah. It
was going to be a big onethis year too, with the Detroit Cobras
and all of that. And sadlyhe was he didn't get to make it.
But I'll tell you, Peter heatwhen he uh, when you needed

(09:54):
something, he was right there.I mean, I did so many benefits
for Scott Morgan and Gary Quack andBush from the SRC, and Scottie from
the Rationals and and Dick Wagner fromThe Frost and John Sinclair donated every single
time. And I can I canshow you a list of people who you
would think that would donate to somethinglike that and didn't. And yet there

(10:18):
was John Sinclair, you know who. I'm sure he wasn't a millionaire by
any stretch of the imagination, andyet he was always donating his time,
his money, his effort, hismemorabilia. It was just uncanny and just
it's just so sad that we losthim, really it is. But like

(10:39):
I said, he was in aboutthree years ago. He said to me,
my only goal is to make itto eighty. And he made it
to eighty two, so when hewas seventy ninety said that. But yeah,
I mean he was always here,and I think this is all okay
to say. I mean he waspoor, he was you know, all

(11:03):
of his you know, I'll tellyou at this memorial for him at the
Museum of the Temporary Art Detroit MOKADthe last Tuesday, the wife of Keino
Gross from the uh Howling Diabolos,she said, uh that John Sinclair has
had obituaries and tributes to the DetroitNews and Free Press, every news site

(11:26):
in the area, in the NewYork Times, the Washington Post, in
TTOG in Germany, and he andshe says, you know what, uh
would has said where I was enoughwhen I was alive, you know,
yeah he was, I mean,will help people care him. It was

(11:48):
a community around that began what wecalled the Cast Corridor community. And people
can look at they're on Facebook,look at Cast Corridor forever and there's you
know, there's still a vibrant communitythere. And John has a lot of
you know, was one of thepeople that created that. I mean,

(12:09):
you use a son of the CastCornder. So tell me about this event
now that you have coming up.And I did see the one downtown video
of it on Facebook. It wasstreaming live. This is going to be
a little different because this is goingto have a lot of musical artists there.
It's called the Celebration of Life,a gathering of friends. And I

(12:31):
see that Tino is going to play. Linda Lexi, his wife, will
probably be there as well. JeffGrand And I got to tell you,
Peter one of my favorites right now, Maruga cosmic Boogie. I mean that
guy Maruga is just so good andhe's almost perfect for the kind of music

(12:52):
that John Sinclair really loved in hislife. Tasha Owens, tell me a
little bit about how this thing cametogether so quickly. Well, both of
these the event that Molkhead was sowell organized, and well, I mean
I wasn't in on the planning.I'll just tell you real quickly. I
was sitting in the back of probablyfour or five hundred people and Cilia,

(13:15):
John and Lenny's daughter, can youwhat are you doing back here? And
I said sitting and she grabbed meand pulled me up towards the front.
I said, well, this isreserved, and she said, well you're
speaking, I said, I am, I said, you know, no
one told me, really, Imean, I was a little surprised that
no one had asked me, Butyou know, I thought, what the
hell. You know, there's lotsof people that were close to John and

(13:37):
could talk about his life. Butyeah, but that and I'm not quite
Laura Grimshaw, Gary a poster art, is granting both poster arts. Laura
Grimshaw, who was married to Gary. She and others put this all together
so quickly. And this is Idon't know how many people would know him.

(14:00):
The Marvin Serrowitz, Marvin Marvin's daughter, Molly Syrowitz, is putting this
all together. And it's something calledthe Ralston Center. It's across some people
may know this the Stonehouse Bar andold uh we call those bars, you
know, a dive bar. Yeah, yeah, yeah, a dive bar,

(14:22):
dive bar and so but Molly andpeople they have it's going to be
outside, it's gonna be cool toMarlin, so they've got tents with heaters.
Larry Gabriel brass Band is going todo one of these second Line marches,
you know from New Orleans, youknow, the march march around the
place. I don't know who thisis. This is Blair Anderson Black Panthers.

(14:46):
You know, well, Okay,Ralph Cody Artsky is an incredible saxophone
player and Maruga, right, Marugaan incredible drummer. He was actually on
my you know, to talk aboutyou and I going back to all these
uh you know, radio stations thatwe were on together when it was I

(15:09):
think just the Peter Worby Show beforeit was even night call. But Rugo
was one of my first guests,and talking about drumming, a lot of
this is coming together. Yeah.I saw that blues guitar player Howard Glazer
was going to be on there aswell, and I'm glad to see that.
My young friend. I almost feellike he's close to an adopted son

(15:33):
quite frankly. But JAREDT. Coralwill be out there with you as the
official MC's of the day. Andand I know he worked with John Sinclair
on his on his record label aswell. He did. Yeah, Jarrett
the fact, you know, whenMolly asked me, she says, will
you be the host? And Isaid, let's just not have old dudes

(15:54):
on it. We got to getsomebody younger. And I said in Chanteu
and I suggested Jared. He spokeat the at the memorial, at at
the tribute last Tuesday with Johnson Clair, and he was terrific. You mean,
he's so well spoken to the pointwhere I might just let him share

(16:15):
the ball, you know, whynot let the next generation? You know,
we got to, you know,make room for the young people.
You know, there's something coming upalso on June twenty seventh, it's an
independent bookstore Day and it's Poetry Month. So the book Bead in Oak Park,

(16:36):
Michigan, a bookstore that's incredible,that has so sold so many of
my novels, some are on fire. And my latest one, Eat the
Rich, is having Johnson Clair's poetry, and probably a lot of people in
poetry, well listen to the wheelsMan, you listen to poetry, right,
except they got music and this willhave music. And I'm going to

(16:59):
be reading one of John's poem Wow, I think with Tino Gross and Jeff
Graham, who accompanied John very frequentlyas he re read, and I'm going
to read this poem that John wroteafter dedicated all dedicated the word to this
Detroit narcotics cop that busted them andbunted them and sent him off to jail

(17:22):
called Warner Strength for Goodness, DetroitNarcotics Squad. Yeah, definitely, I
can't do John that well, butI'll try it. I know you sound
you sound pretty close, I haveto say, But yeah, I love
Tino Gross. He really he reallyhad John by his side here the last
couple of years. He put thatalbum out with him. I remember that

(17:44):
album release party we all went toat Callahan's. There are so many,
so many different things that have happened, but yeah, Tino really was working
with John right up until the end. So it's fitting that he's been a
big part of of all of it. And it's just, like I said,
it's just sad to lose somebody soiconic, you know. He said,

(18:06):
well, they asked me, andthey said, well, I used
to visit on a lot in thefinal weeks and months before, and he
said, what did you talk about, man? And I said, well,
we used to swap detective fiction bookslike James Lee Burke and Harlan Covid,
and we would just talk about youknow, murder mysteries, and so
we talked, you know, Imean, I mean, and again I

(18:29):
think I can say this. Somebody, some people thought that John should not
make this last trip to Paris thathe did in February. There was going
to be too hard on him.And they said, Peter, you can
talk him out of it, youknow, tell him not to go.
And I said, no way.You know, I mean, for one
thing, it was terrific that heactually wound up reading his poetry as his

(18:52):
last gig. What a what awhat a gig? What a final gig?
Being brought all the way from Detroit. That's that's we play in Europe.
You know, there's you probably knowthis. There's all these clubs called
three one three after our area,you know, the same area co and
the m C five and you knowsort of obscure bands. I guess they're

(19:15):
obscure destroy all monsters. They werebrought over as well to take part in
this festival. And Terry Laura andthe owner of the book Beat bookstore.
You know, so we there's atendency to take Maybe it's just me Detroit,
for granted, but when you thinkabout the rock and roll, the

(19:40):
blues and the jazz that have comeout of this city, it is absolutely
ground zero for cultural adventure. MayI just say that you were a huge
part and a major influence in DetroitMusic Books, journalism, h the radio

(20:00):
show Night Call, which you know, I almost lost my job as program
director three or four times over thatshow at a w r IF, but
we kept it alive for as longas we could. And uh, is
that show on the air anywhere anymore? Can you podcast it? Or you

(20:21):
know the old uh WR Night Callshow you go to double I don't,
I mean, I can find it. I don't know, just trying to
real quickly. You were a biginfluence in my radio career as well.
We we both worked at ABX andW four and the original Wheels and Riff

(20:41):
and then we all got fired fromCSX. But you know that's uh,
you know, that's all of them. And just you know, you and
I were kind of either there atthe same time or you know, you
were on your way out, Iwas on my way in. But you
were always great, and you knowyou just kind of mentioned in passing,
but you always had my back,and you know, it would have been

(21:04):
pretty easy just to say yeah,you know, Uh, too bad.
I don't know. I mean,I'm just looking through the rifts. I
can't I can't find that. Ican't believe that it would still be up
there now waiting their corporate entity.But you know, we'll save that for
another day because Peter, someday wehave to honor you seriously before anything serious

(21:26):
happens, because you have carved outsuch a major footprint in the Motor City
and just everything that we stand onwhen it comes to rock and roll.
So at some point, my friend, we're gonna have to muster up a
little you know, honoring of PeterWerby. But well, I am pretty

(21:48):
modest. I appreciate I know that, I know that. But it's great
that you're putting this together for JohnSinclair. It's going to be happening on
Saturday. It starts around on twoo'clock and it goes throughout the day.
And do people have to buy ticketsor can they just show up free?
Truth's free. It's all free andall this great music all day long.

(22:11):
That is just going to be toospecial. So Peter, thank you so
much for your time. Brother.I appreciate it, and I appreciate all
that you've done and all that you'restill doing. And just keep it rocking,
my man, and a tip ofthe cap on this Johnson Clear event.
All right, let me be immodust and tell people then go to
my website at Peter worbywe rbe dotcom. That's not very modest, Yeah,

(22:36):
no, I saw it. Itlooks good too. You've got quite
a bit up there, so congratulations, all right, my brother, thank
you so much. All right,Peter, thank you, and thanks for
stopping by Detroit's Wheels