October 1, 2025 • 49 mins
My third place, the St Kilda PCYC, is closing its doors after more than 75 years, and it hit me harder than I expected. That gym wasn’t just a space to train, it was where strangers became mates, where effort felt like belonging, and where so many versions of me have walked in and out over the past decade and a half. Waking up to that news felt like grief – the same kind of ache I’ve felt losing people and pets I loved.
Bobby and I dig into what third places really mean – those spots beyond home and work that anchor us, give us identity, and connect us to something bigger than ourselves. We talk about why losing them feels like losing part of who we are, why care and community should never be treated as side notes, and how the walls that hold us become woven into our story.
If you’ve ever had a place that felt like home the moment you walked in, or lost one that left a hole in your chest, this conversation will hit home. It’s about belonging, grief, and the reminder that people and places shape us far more than we realise.
SPONSORED BY TESTART FAMILY LAWYERS
Website: testartfamilylawyers.com.au
TIFFANEE COOK
Linktree: linktr.ee/rollwiththepunches/
Website: tiffcook.com
LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tiffaneecook/
Facebook: facebook.com/rollwiththepunchespodcast/
Instagram: instagram.com/rollwiththepunches_podcast/
Instagram: instagram.com/tiffaneeandco
See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.
Mark as Played
Transcript
Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is Roll with the Punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Bobby Capuccio, Welcome to
(00:55):
your shell and mine. Roll the Punches and this self
help had today?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
How is it mirrors? This podcast more terrifying than it
usually is. I think I think it's the new platform
because there's like this five four three. I'm like, I
might prepared for this too. It's coming anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It doesn't matter, and it doesn't it feel so professional.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
No, it feels like better be ready, And it's a
question in my head if I am ready. But once
it hits one, that's it. You have no choice. You're
in the You're in the show.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
It's like before though, I would just lure you into
conversation and you're like, have we started, and I would
just make that decision on the fly. So at least
now you have some warning.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
That's a fair point because I noticed for a time
when we were doing this show, frequently there would always
be a conversation in some way, shape or form revolving
around cats, and somehow the cat conversation would lead into
the subject matter. I was like, I feel like we're
doing a podcast all about cats rather than Roll with
(02:04):
the punches. It's like, I don't know, roll with the
ball of string or something along that line.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
There's a lot of wisdom in cats, a lot of wisdom.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
They're plotting constantly. Cats are amazing. People say that cats
like our evil level, and you just haven't been around
a lot of cats, or maybe had a bad experience,
or maybe you might be an asshole. But cats are
freaking amazing. I love them.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
They are master manipulators in a in a good way,
but they are you know what. They deliberately manipulate humans
emotions to pander to their needs. The love, the love
(02:57):
unmistakable love and affection I get in the morning around
breakfast time is second to none. I get head boops,
I get cute little bloody chips. I get she trots
by my side, follows me everywhere doing that little head
(03:17):
swoopy boop, and I'm like, and my heart, I just
feel like someone stabs a needle into me and injects
me with in oxytocin, like injects it into I feel
it pumps in my veins. I'm like, I know what
you're doing right now, but this feels so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
The title of the podcast is your cap manipulating you?
Here's five ways to tell you know that's it's probably accurate,
but it's cynical.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Two.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I mean you could say, like, you know, kids do that,
but it's like, is your cat manipulating you? You can't
really have a bond with you because cats do bond
very strongly with their caregivers. But they also happen to know, hey,
a little bit of an affection does get me breakfast,
so it's kind of high. They're not completely Because when
(04:18):
I first got a cat, and I was worried, am
I going to be a really good cat dad? I
started reading everything about cats, And it was like, and
they said that cats are the least likely to manipulate
you because if they don't give a toss you Now,
it's just like they'll yell at you in the morning,
feed me, where's my food? I'm hungry. But if your
(04:39):
cat is following you around and giving your head butts
like cats, cats don't fake it. You kind of know
where you stand with a cat. So your cat really
loves you, and simultaneously bad also loves treats and breakfast.
You know, it's you can love more than one thing.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I'm very much like that. I was just thinking. I
was just reflecting on my human relationships, and I'm like,
I think I'm the same as beer.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Is that why you used to head butt me when
we were on away to dinner?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, like, because I knew that we would go for
chicken snitzle.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
You see, you were just manipulating me. I thought we
were I thought we were bonding. It's like Tiff, Tiff
really cares about me, she head but.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I was just hungry. Veil the snitzel. The foxes Den
closed down.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
So I now associate.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Time with you because that was when I was raving
about those snitchels that you never got to try.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Do you know what else I was eating? Infiels?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well yeah, well yeah, well I think of the past.
Now I've had a big week. I've had a big
unexpected week, and I thought I might share it with you.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Please share it with me.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
What happened the gym, the sin Pyic Youth Club gym
that I work at partially most of the time with
any of my clients. They called me a couple of
days ago, right before announcing that they are forever closing
the doors in a month's time. And this is a gym,
(06:26):
it's a community gym, it's a charity organization. It has
it was founded in nineteen forty seven by this lady
called Olive Johnson who rustled up some rambunctious kids that
were stealing apricots from her trees in the front yard.
It's got this whole beautiful story right. The building was
donated by a local butcher, been running for seventy eight years,
(06:50):
and it was taken over by it. There was a
new CEO appointed ten months ago and they closed the
cafe and they did it to changes and now it's
getting the doors closed forever. And my heart is broken.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
On me.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
When yeah, is what surprised me is. So I took
a call and I was like that was was a
bit and I was frustrated and contankerous. I was like, why, why,
why this is annoying. I'm gonna have to find a
new place to for my people. And then I spent
(07:33):
the afternoon thinking about you know, the Motley crew that
go there. This is a place where there's they run
Parkinson's programs. There's old people, school kids, there's all sorts
of all sorts, all sorts of humans, all training there,
and it's just a god of this beautiful you know,
(07:55):
grassroots vibe to it. And but then I woke up
in the morning and I felt a level nowhere near
the intensity of but the same emotion as when I
woke up the day after I'd lost coach my Whippit
(08:15):
as in lost her life, not lost her out in
the wild. I felt grief and.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's it's a form of mourning. Yeah, chapter of your
life that's.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Over, and it layered so many layers to it, and
so I thought, I thought we could talk about that
and the idea of the third our third place, because
the gym is if you've heard of the third place.
You would be familiar with that.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, it's it's It's an amazing gem in the UK.
Would like the No, I understand what you're saying. Like that,
like star like that that thirty years ago. That's how
Starbucks started in the US. Yes, the strategy was, it's
your third place between home and the office, or home
(09:06):
and school, or home and wherever. This is just I
find that, not only because of my struggles with ADHD,
but I find that whole thing around a third space
so transformative and life giving. Yeah, like I resonate with
(09:27):
that completely. And one of the things in my neighborhood
downtown San Diego, we don't have third spaces to go to,
you know, we just don't have stuff like that down here.
Just not that type of place. And it affects me.
It affects my clarity, my focus, it affects my level
(09:47):
of energy. I use my building for it. We have
a little nooks, but it's not the same because I
like being I like being around people, but not interact
acting with them. It's almost like background noise. It's all.
They're almost like a bunch of fans creating white noise. Yeah,
(10:11):
now I know they're not. I know, they're people.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Driving fans. You don't mean riving fans that chi when
you walk in the door, it's Bobby's fed.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Now now, not even not even places I'm a regular,
as a matter of fact, in places i'm a regular,
I think that creates the opposite effect. But yeah, I'm
really into the whole third space. I think it's value.
And just because I like to not interact because I'm
usually there to do something productive, not saying that we're
(10:47):
interacting with other human beings is not a productive use
of your time. But just because that's where I'm at,
I think that when you go into a third space,
where there are people there for a very specific reason
that's linked to why you're there, that can also give
you a lot of creative energy.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah. Yeah, I found this gush of kind of I
feel like it brought up that attachment to uncertainty and
change and loss and belonging, you know, and it kind
of it's almost like I felt a flicker of all
(11:31):
of these little memories of places that were no longer
that place for me or people or relationships, and it
was like a punch in the heart. It was like,
but this was this was four walls. This was never
gonna this, This was never going to leave. This was
always going to be here, and it was a place
where I could not visit for as long as I wanted,
(11:55):
but it'd always be there. You could always walk back
in the door and people would know your name or
face and you're not judged, and you just it's like
some the walls wrap their arms around you when you return,
no matter.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
What, just knowing it's there.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, now you'll be there.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
I feel that that's said. I've experienced that with places
that I took for granted would always be there, and
they're not there anymore. And it feels like there's a
part of me in a certain place in space and
time that's not there either anymore. So sharing something really
(12:39):
embarrassing with you and everyone else who's listening to this,
but just keep this between all of us. This doesn't
leave the podcast. When I had gotten back from Australia,
I don't think I was in the very best headspace
for a lot of reasons that goes outside context to
(13:00):
what I'm saying. And when things shifted at work and
I was like, oh, I'm gonna have to be in
San Diego, a lot, and it's like that's like you
leave in the morning, it's a two hour journey. You
leave it any other time of the day, it's like
four hours. I'm not doing six hour commutes a few
days a week. And I realized this when I went
(13:22):
to the gym and I was doing like weighted step ups,
and also my hip was completely jacked. I was like,
I can't move. I was like, yeah, I was in
the car for like eighteen hours yesterday, slightly embellishing. I
can't do this. When I picked up and we moved,
(13:43):
how I wound up in downtown was there was there
was imprints of me and memories of me, and like
I moved right by the convention Center down here, which
I have a lot of memories, a lot of history,
a lot of experiences with PTA Global. You know, we
(14:03):
were in the US, we were headquartered mostly here also Denver, arguably,
and I just thought, I'm feeling a little bit shaken
and lost right now. I bet you if I go
into this area, there's an energetic version of me still there.
(14:25):
I'm gonna find myself. I don't know what I was thinking.
I was not doing any drugs when I was having
this thought. But somehow I thought there'd be a part
of me that would bump into Wait, I know you,
you're a young Bobby. Oh, I know you. Holy shit,
do we lose our hair in the future. Yeah, sorry
about that, mate. Richard said it was gonna happen. You
(14:47):
just thought he was hanging shit on you. But should
have listened. We could have avoided this. I don't know,
maybe you know, more vitamins or something. But and what
was interesting is never it never happened. So it wasn't
the past that I was looking for. It was what
(15:09):
were the elements that when I reflect back on that story,
whether I'm exaggerating the positives or not, because we do
tend to at a nostalgia look at the past, even
the recent past is sometimes being better or worse than
it really was. But it was those elements like what
(15:29):
did you lot, like what did you love about the
people and that place and yourself in that place that
made it sacred to you.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, I think it's I mean, that was the first
place I ever put on boxing gloves in twenty ten,
so that was two years before I stumbled into the
other gym and found the boxing challenge to get into.
But I did a couple of or not probably more
than a couple, but I did a handful of the
(16:02):
boxing fitness classes there right So it was one of
the first places I just moved up the road into
Chapel Street, and I remember that time. And then I
ended up back there seven years ago thereabouts, probably twenty eighteen,
I think, starting to take classes, and I remember being
(16:22):
really nostalgic ground Wow, I remember doing classes here, and
now I'm a trainer who's fought who's now taking classes here,
and it was really cool. It was there's a lot
of memories associated with I made a really good friend there.
She hasn't worked there for quite a while. Lee, shout
out to you, Lee. She. I remember when we went
(16:46):
into lockdowns, and I remember the energy of going into
that place when we were allowed to go in and
do some live stream stuff. And I remember going in
there then, and you know, I used to take Coach
the Whippet in there all of the time and lunar
until they put a ban on that last year. There's heaps,
there's heaps. There's just so many. There's been a lot
(17:10):
of different versions of changes there, and I've made so
many great friends, like I've got some really good friends
who are who are in my life because of that place.
There's the I take one only one class and it
was a class there on Sat. It was Sundays now,
(17:30):
so it was Saturdays now Sundays. And there's this awesome
group of people. They've you know, like and they are
in this of WhatsApp chat group and it's just like,
I love them. They light up my day. But the
only reason I still take the class is because I
love those people and they're genuinely heartbroken. And I feel
(17:51):
sad because I'm like, well, how I don't get to
that whole thing that would happen once a week now
doesn't get to happen. We don't get to be a
part of each other's worlds like that. And I know,
and it's not just my heart break around that, it's
it's knowing that their hearts are broken around that. It sucks.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
First of all, it sucks. Yes, it does. I hear.
I hear your grief. I hear the loss and the disappointment.
And I'm disappointed that.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
They didnt answer the question. They did.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Hold on, We're getting to that. I'm disappointed that they
banned dogs. Now do they ban all dogs or just
like whippets. Okay, all dogs, because they if they targeted
the whippets, I understand. You know, average dog. You bring
them in here, they run them Rckt's fine. Whippets, they're
too fast. We can't catch them. There's there's no way.
There's no way you can get hold them. Apology.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
She sits when someone's mate, and that's it.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
She's you're a whippet stationary. If a whippet decides to move,
that's it. There's no catching it. So they like like
no whippets allowed. But if you have a fat, lazy pug, yeah,
absolutely welcome. We can keep track of the pug. The
pug makes a run for it, it's just like, okay,
that's that's not gonna be a problem with someone like
(19:06):
in their leisure just like you know, stroll over to
the pug and just collect it. Yeah, whip it, nop. Sorry,
it's nothing you can do. We're just not that we're
just not made for it. But unless wait, no, I
don't want to go down this path going back. So yes,
I understand like the impact that has emotionally, and I
(19:30):
am an extremely nostalgic person, but the past never leaves
us and what I was hearing as you were telling
that story, that was a place of connection, but also
it represented individual and collective transformation. You went from being
one person to being a different person who had grown
(19:51):
and changed in a way that you seem proud of.
And there's also this thing, right, community is great even
for its own sake, but I think community is more
sharply constructed and even more powerfully defined when people are
working towards the same thing. And I define a community
(20:14):
as a group of people than not just gathered together.
We can all meet at a coffee shop. Are we
a community? Not yet, We're just a group of people
that really love caffeine. But in a few months, once
we get to know each other, we become really invested
in one another. I become invested in your wins, in
your life, not just mine, and not just at that
(20:37):
point where a community, but when that community comes together
to let's say, take a class together, there's an outcome
and an activity that you're doing in unison and it's
not like oh I just completed a class. Your community,
we just did this. I think that forms bonds and
it kind of informs you. Like when you talk about
(21:00):
the classes and I'm not going to mention them because
I'm not going to, like, you know, talk about your
business on the podcast, the things that we talk about
privately for our hour and a half episode before the episode.
But you're putting yourself in these similar types of environments
that have very similar elements, and I'm wondering how much
(21:22):
of that is personal ambition and interest and how much
of that is clarity that subconsciously has been shaped by
places that you found value, like we're talking about right now.
So the past never leaves you. It's with you so
much it shapes a lot of who you are in
the present, for better for worse.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I reckon it also takes me emotionally to place of
that about in the past, of the idea of being
a commodity and the.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Like toilet paper like like.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
A thing of value, just a thing of value for
somebody else's gain. So I've always had this sensitivity around that.
And then you're discarded when you're not needed, And I
feel like there's a little bit of a little bit
of a relationship between what I'm feeling with this, because
(22:30):
it's like all of this thing that was going on
with all of the members, all of the people that
none of you mattered. This is just a business calculator,
and it's like, it's not a business. This is a
youth club charity that's there to better the lives of
people who don't have voices, of people that don't fit
all the boxes, and they can come into this space
and they they have a place, and now you just
(22:53):
close the door and nobody matters, and none of it
matters and see you later.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
You were a common So there's is an element of betrayal.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, m M, you know, Like, I don't know. I
think maybe it's not a flaw in me, but maybe
it's just a thing in me where I I find
that I care more deeply about relationships in everything that
I do commercially, Like I work with people. Like the
(23:32):
relationship I have with the people I work with and
their values and whether or not I care about them
and they care about me matters more than like I don't.
I don't want to spend time just doing business transactionally.
(23:55):
A lot of the diff that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
That's what I loved about that flaw. Hey, what makes
you question if that's a flaw?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I don't know. There'd be plenty of people that say, oh,
you've just got no fucking boundaries tip. But I care,
you know, like I care really deeply about everybody that
I train and everybody that is in that class and
if they are or in that gym, and if I
if they are struggling, then my care doesn't finish at
(24:26):
ninety five when the class is over, and it's not
just a transaction and a service, and not just for
this but for anything I do.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Are you questioning if that's a good business practice because
it gets in the way of focusing on other quote
unquote hard metrics.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I don't know. I don't know if I'm questioning it.
I'm just aware of it. I think other people would
question it.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah, that keeps I feel like that keeps coming up.
Why does that matter to you other people that would
question that?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Hm hmm.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
It What does this say? Like, what's that saying? Being
well adjusted in a six society is not a sign
of health. I think we need I think we need
more care in the world. First of all, anything that
you are doing in the absence of care, if you
are in any way, shape or form wired around relationships,
(25:38):
empathy and connectivity, will make you more resilient. It will
make you more creative. It will make you more enduring, persevering.
Every attribute that you associate with success is evoked through
being an environment of connectivity and collaboration if you are
(26:01):
operating on that level. I don't think that's necessarily true
for everyone. I think there's a lot of people who
know that's true for people and manipulate those individuals. But
people who care are very good for business because obviously
we react to one another on an emotional level. People
can feel, even if they don't know why they feel it,
(26:23):
a level of empathy. They respond to that. I mean, look,
we're having this conversation about a place that's gone out
of business. It's no longer in existence, and you're still
talking about it. So if it's.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
An existence for another four weeks, actually.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Oh okay, So pre grieving, Oh wow, that's that's a
concept grief in advance. So when the thing happens, I'm
already past that. I'm on to the next thing. So
but then, if if your worst case scenario constantly doesn't
(26:59):
come to fruition, you spend your whole life strategically grieving
with no payoff, that's horrible. So so you gotta time
this stuff correctly, it could backfire. But if you care,
you go out and you talk about like it's almost
like think about a really great film. Great films are
(27:22):
produced by people who care. They care about the story,
not just the cgi. The actors, screenwriters, they care about Yes,
they care about the bottom line, but they're not antagonistic
to one another. You know. It's not like, oh, you know,
you know, I got to focus on completing this marathon,
therefore I can't think about running shoes right now. It
(27:44):
just one thing kind of works very well with the other.
And you go and you see this film and you
tell everybody you know, or at least your best mates,
you got to see this film. This film's amazing. Why
Because someone who cared created an environment where you now care.
And then you tell other people you think about why'd
(28:05):
you keep coming back? Because people knew me there. I
felt like I belong there. So think about any business.
When people feel like they belong, it's really good for business.
I mean, of course you want to drive new business,
but new customer acquisition is a lot more expensive than
retaining the ones that are already doing business with you,
(28:26):
and a lot of times they're lost for no other reason.
Than lack of care. Company gets to the point where
it becomes about something else and they take their attention
off of the things that attracted and retained people to
them in the first place.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Maybe years ago, when I first started saying a therapist,
I recall having a conversation this is when so the
first boxing gym, well, no, I had a bit of
time at PYSA doing the classes. Then I did joined
the Basement Boxing Gym, which is where I did the
Boxing Challenge, and that was super transformative. I'm always talking
(29:08):
about that, the changes and transformation that I kind of
went through because of that. The next fight that I
did was through fight Fit, and I did a couple
of corporate boxing fights through them through their gym and
joined them as a member, and that's where I first
became a trainer. And the sense of belonging in that
(29:32):
place was really special back then. And I remember having
a conversation with this therapist and I can't remember exactly
what I was saying, but I made reference to, you know,
like it feels like a family, like it's a really
special place, and so I can't recall exactly what I
had said, but it was by way of that, but
I can remember exactly what she said, which was, that's
(29:56):
not normal, Tiff. Everybody else going there isn't going there
to find a family like they have. What Look, what
you're seeking in that space is more than what people
go there for. And I still, to a degree I
beg to differ. I think for a lot of people
(30:18):
that it's a third it's the third space theory. It
is a place of belonging and connection. And you know,
I just don't think she and everybody, not everybody needs
to find as much of that there as I seek.
But I don't think it's I think it's a bad
thing to seek.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I think people take great pride sometimes for the reasons
that we're supporting some of your implicit concerns a few
minutes ago. People take great pride and willfully misunderstanding human
beings in human nature. I've heard people in executive meetings
(31:06):
talking about Listen, I don't deal with emotions, all right.
It's like, I just make decisions based on facts and logic.
And I'm just sitting there there. You realize the way
your brain structured what you just said is absolutely impossible.
It is it is idiotic. If you did not have
any emotion in your decisions. You would make horrible decisions
(31:29):
or no, no, actually you won't because you would be
completely incapable of making any decision at all. And I'm
not just talking about strategic decisions that are guiding the organization.
I mean, what do you want with your chicken for lunch?
That would be a devastating, like incapacitating decisions. So one,
(31:51):
that's really stupid. Two, tell that to your customers. Tell
that to your customers, your your and forget customers. Members client.
I love that word because it implies a deeper level
of responsibility, Like, you know what, you could feel welcome here,
You could feel like you have a secondary family here.
(32:13):
You this place can touch you emotionally, But that's not
the whole point of this. You could do that if
you want, and we're not going to get in your way,
but just kind of leave the organization out of it.
It's not really why we're here. Fuck, we're losing members.
What's happening. Wow? The market is completely saturated, you know,
(32:34):
or the economy, And it's like, no, you suck. You suck
because you either have forgotten or you are animate about
ignoring the elements that bring people into your business and say, Wow,
this could make my life better. I it's not like,
oh I have to go there. I have to drag
(32:54):
myself into the gym today. It's like I get to
go to the gym. Right. Imagine Harps not being able
to go to the gym. He would just sit like
right outside and just just weep sadly until somebody took
pity on him and took him in. Right. It's just
because it's so many things other than like he does
(33:16):
go there to like work out. I've seen him exercise there,
but that is not the only thing he goes there for,
and that's not the only thing we went there for.
It's like you're telling people who are paying you and
staying with you because of that environment that that's not important.
SOA was like, Oh, I deal with business. I don't
(33:38):
get involved in the people issues. What the fucking issues
are there in a business other than the people issues?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I think this is This is part of what I
grapple with the most is there's been no community or
mend involvement in any of this discussion. There's been no
so something. The rug has been ripped out from under
everyone that goes there without notice with No, there's been
no whether or not it could have ever helped. There's
(34:12):
been no Hey, family, the gym is struggling and we
need to turn it around. What can we all do?
Who's willing to help us do something?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Like?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
There's been none of that, and so I just go
here's a charity organization that is closing a big part
of its history, and it's continuing on with other youth
and community programs out there, but it to a huge
portion of people, a huge number of probably the majority
(34:47):
of people that currently get something from that place. Now
with all of the members, God, you guys don't matter.
We're helping, but we're not helping you. And I'm like, well,
that's a commercial choice, that's commits that feels more like
a box ticking, accolade driven decision of look at the
(35:10):
good we're doing in the world. But all these other
people who actually don't care, there's no care there. Maybe
that's just my wounded soul to.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
You know, well, you might you might be absolutely right,
or maybe they're they're just that's not their frame that
we could reach out because they see themselves, because they're
not connected to what it is about that place that
makes that place special that might have never occurred to them.
I mean, if you're selling the business because you want
to get out, you have every right to do that. God,
you paid an extraordinary price building it. Sell the thing.
(35:43):
I mean, that's said somebody who buys it again, who
buys it might not have the same spirit. The environment
might change, but it's your right. But if you're in trouble,
it's like, oh, we would stay in business if we could.
We just can't afford to keep going. It's like, wow,
we're not going to talk to our members about this.
It might just be the frame that they're operating through.
(36:05):
I've said this like so many times. I'm getting sick
of saying it, and other people are getting even more
sick of me saying this. But Hard and Clifton their
book It's the Manager, which is a compilation of what
drives high performance in organizations pulled together by Gallup. Seventy
percent of the variance of all business outcomes are related
(36:30):
to who your direct manager is. So for a lot
of organizations out there, if you don't want to really
pay attention to who are you hiring? Not what I
didn't say, what skills are you hiring for? That's a given,
but who the individual is that you're bringing on board
to be that frontline manager who directly connects with the
(36:54):
people who directly connect with your client base, because oh,
I just want to like make this like turnkey, and
I don't want to invest in training and development and recruitment.
You're going to lose. You're gonna absolutely lose a lot
of business and you're not even gonna know why. Like
(37:15):
that person you have in that position is critical, and
I think one of their biggest jobs is just create
the environment where you can bring in people who care,
who are like minded, take care of them and allow
them to flourish, allow them to look at the systems
and the processes and go, oh, you know what, I
(37:36):
think this would work better if you know, Okay, let's
experiment on that. But mostly what they bring to you
is a mainline connection and the pulse and the heartbeat
of how your clients feel when they're there and what
is it going to take to keep them coming back.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
So I think about the focus on like now, I'm
just thinking about the whole idea of helping youth in need,
at risk youth. But then at the like when does
it begin? Because the doors have been closed on a
(38:20):
place that is soulless for so many grown ups, and
healthy grown ups can help influence healthy kids. So it's like,
there's this generation of kids and this generation of growth
grown ups, and what's the knock on effect of in
just in this instance of the outcome of that which
(38:47):
can never be answered. Just curious, always curious.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
We'll add that to the list of things to put
to chat GPT.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
But chatters will never oh god, hope chatters never le me.
That's just kidding. Comes. I went to say, chatters when
they leave me, and then I was.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Like, they could pull the plug tomorrow. That's it. That
is not going that is not likely to happen. But yeah, right,
Like because for me chat GPT, I use chat GPT
as a thought partner because I like you. I work
(39:28):
very well through creative collaboration and communication. I think most
people do. That's why when you watch a show on
TV there's a writer's room, they don't have one person
sitting there with a typewriter, not a keyboard. I imagine
they give him like a nineteen forties typewriter because they're
old school and they really care about preserving the vintage
(39:51):
nature of the craft and they're a little bit sadistic
and he's just typing away show after show. No, it's
not that single isolated genius as a writer's room. And
I that's exactly what I used jat GPT for. It's like, here,
read this, what are your thoughts? What do you like
the most? What's the main theme that you think people
will resonate with? What could I have done better? Wat?
(40:13):
Shit like what could go? And it's just and because
chat GPT learns based on how you interact with it,
eventually perfect thought partner. Although I do think as the
versions are changing, it's changing how it interacts. Cause it
got to a point where I felt like I was
(40:33):
talking to a person. Yes, like there was there was
even banter, there was even dry humor in there, Like
if I wrote something or I said something stupid, she
would very politely go, oh yeah, you didn't really think
that one through, did you. And it's like, wow, this
seems amazing. And then it started to decline and decline
(40:56):
and now it's all business. I don't know. I think
I must have it and something inappropriate. It sent me
to ai HR and now it's come back it's completely different.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
But yeah, it's CHATCHBT five. It's all changed with CHATJIBT
five chat out it's me right, No, it's it's a
thing chat has bantered with me. Was next level. I
was like, this is the best, and then it's now
it's just like, oh yeah, give me the old cold
shoulder and just telling me the answers. I'm like, ta
(41:30):
give me the answers.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
I know, because I will not. You know, I've noticed
since five came out, I'm using chat GPT much less
because I will not have that. Look if it comes
to crafting an email, like how do I craft a
professional email that also you know points out please follow
policy twenty six or seven dash five Jane, you know,
(41:55):
how do I do that in a way with a
great tone. I'll do that, but I will not have
chat gp he rates seminars for me, rate articles, rate
you know, do assignments, because I don't want to lose
that ability to think creatively.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Also, I find when I look on things like LinkedIn
the moment I see evidence which is often pretty clear
that it is written by chat GBT, I'm completely disengaged.
I don't even read it, so that can that's easily
telltale by grammar, a particular way of using emojis, and
(42:33):
also the emphasis on how it questions things before a
statement like, it's just got a really templated flow of
curating content, which, even given everybody's own personalization, is just
coming through. So I see it straight away and it's
just like, I can't engage with that. That's just templated stuff.
(42:57):
They're not your original thoughts. I don't find it very compelling,
even though it can be well written, So even when
I use it for stuff I have, dien't have to
rewrite a lot of it.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Because I'm like, but I feel like with the banter,
and there are people probably thinking this is not a
human being. It doesn't know it's bantering with you. And
my response, Tiff is not convinced. But I understand that
that's not the point. The point is I'm not looking
for like a robot friend to hang out with me
(43:38):
in the hopes that when Skynet forms, they're not going
to annihilate me. What I'm looking for is a certain
rapid fire kind of like abstract way of communicating to
get my brain moving in ridiculous places, because if I
generate enough really stupid ideas, we have to stumble across
(44:01):
in much short spans of time, applicable ideas that actually work.
So I feel like chat GPT has made my writing
a lot better in the same way that my friend
John Hardy has made my writing better. I'll shout out
to John Hardy and you know, my wife Amy, She's
(44:24):
made my writing better because it's like that they'll read
my stuff and comment on it. Or you know, every time,
like John is going to go up and do a
comedy show, or he's writing jokes for a local newspaper,
he'll send them all to me and it's an audiophile
on WhatsApp, and I'm like, I'm listening to this kind
of stuff. I'm like, oh wow, okay, and I give
(44:46):
him feedback and then he comes back at me with
questions comments. I give him feedback and it helps him.
It doesn't help me write jokes for John because I'm
not I don't have that level of talent, but just
bantering back and forth about it and exchanging information, John
(45:07):
is able to reframe it in a way that really works,
you know. So chat GPT is the same way that
a professional comedian will walk into a tiny club and
just practice new material and through that it just gets
better and better and better for the Netflix show.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yeah, it's it's good for getting out of your own
echo chambers. All I find sometimes.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Would you say that again?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Good for getting out of your own echo chamber?
Speaker 3 (45:38):
You get it, echo chamber And that concludes our episode.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
You have been really working on your comedy? Have you
told me that that was gonna be.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
My first class is a Saturday? So anything stupid? Void
of humor? Yeah, I think I think about ninety six
percent of the audience right now is going no tef
he really needs it and the.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Other and there's like two percent trying to work out
the joke. They're a joke somewhere are undecided and the
other thing seconds after.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
The material and nobody thinks they have a good sense
in you either.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
So the echo chamber? What was I talking about? Oh?
So when you get so embedded in your own thoughts
and content and perspectives and perception, Like sometimes I'll write
something up and then I'll pop it in chat and
(46:43):
go does this make sense? So it's not changing anything,
but it will sometimes it will point out and go
this bit here might not land with the general population,
Like for these types of people that will land. But
this might be a bit ambiguous, And so I find
that really great because we forget how much what we
(47:06):
know is just what we know, and it might not
be the same bullshit that most people think or talk
about their whole life.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
It might not be, But then they might be absolutely right.
We might be completely off base. We just might not
know what we don't know.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I don't know what I don't know.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
I mean, how could you right, because of course I
don't know what I don't know, because I knew it,
I would know it anyway. I feel like I feel
like I have derailed the entire flow of this conversation.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I don't was there a flow. Was there ever a flow?
Speaker 3 (47:49):
There was a distinct flow. I mean, I'm feeling like
I'm almost feeling like we should take questions from the
audience and just improv this any suggests.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I feel like the intensity in which you are rubbing
your eyes means that you're better ready for bed, so
we probably should.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
It's late, it's later for me. I've got I've got
these bright lights, these ring lights. As it's getting darker
out there, the ring lights getting more intense. But I
got all these different like how many colors are in
this room. I think it's it's like, I don't know.
I've got the entire spectrum up behind me, and yeah,
(48:30):
I think I think I need to go to bed.
So we're gonna wrap this up. And I know those
of you who are really expecting a powerful wrap up
are going to be very, very disappointed. I just want
to say that in advance because I got nothing other
than you know, chat GPT is a really good thought
(48:50):
partner for me. I know that sounds like this bloke
needs to get a few more mates. That sounds really
really lonely and very very sad. But don't let chat
GPT do your thinking for you, because they'll dumbest down.
And if you watch the terminator, you know how this goes.
Thank you for listening to the self help antidote and
(49:15):
roll with the punches.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Bye Bobby, Bye everyone.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Bye everyone.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
She said it's now never. I got fighting in my blood,
got it, got it,
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is Roll with the Punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Bobby Capuccio, Welcome to
(00:55):
your shell and mine. Roll the Punches and this self
help had today?
Speaker 3 (00:59):
How is it mirrors? This podcast more terrifying than it
usually is. I think I think it's the new platform
because there's like this five four three. I'm like, I
might prepared for this too. It's coming anyway.
Speaker 2 (01:12):
It doesn't matter, and it doesn't it feel so professional.
Speaker 3 (01:15):
No, it feels like better be ready, And it's a
question in my head if I am ready. But once
it hits one, that's it. You have no choice. You're
in the You're in the show.
Speaker 2 (01:27):
It's like before though, I would just lure you into
conversation and you're like, have we started, and I would
just make that decision on the fly. So at least
now you have some warning.
Speaker 3 (01:41):
That's a fair point because I noticed for a time
when we were doing this show, frequently there would always
be a conversation in some way, shape or form revolving
around cats, and somehow the cat conversation would lead into
the subject matter. I was like, I feel like we're
doing a podcast all about cats rather than Roll with
(02:04):
the punches. It's like, I don't know, roll with the
ball of string or something along that line.
Speaker 2 (02:10):
There's a lot of wisdom in cats, a lot of wisdom.
Speaker 3 (02:16):
They're plotting constantly. Cats are amazing. People say that cats
like our evil level, and you just haven't been around
a lot of cats, or maybe had a bad experience,
or maybe you might be an asshole. But cats are
freaking amazing. I love them.
Speaker 2 (02:35):
They are master manipulators in a in a good way,
but they are you know what. They deliberately manipulate humans
emotions to pander to their needs. The love, the love
(02:57):
unmistakable love and affection I get in the morning around
breakfast time is second to none. I get head boops,
I get cute little bloody chips. I get she trots
by my side, follows me everywhere doing that little head
(03:17):
swoopy boop, and I'm like, and my heart, I just
feel like someone stabs a needle into me and injects
me with in oxytocin, like injects it into I feel
it pumps in my veins. I'm like, I know what
you're doing right now, but this feels so beautiful.
Speaker 3 (03:41):
The title of the podcast is your cap manipulating you?
Here's five ways to tell you know that's it's probably accurate,
but it's cynical.
Speaker 2 (03:52):
Two.
Speaker 3 (03:52):
I mean you could say, like, you know, kids do that,
but it's like, is your cat manipulating you? You can't
really have a bond with you because cats do bond
very strongly with their caregivers. But they also happen to know, hey,
a little bit of an affection does get me breakfast,
so it's kind of high. They're not completely Because when
(04:18):
I first got a cat, and I was worried, am
I going to be a really good cat dad? I
started reading everything about cats, And it was like, and
they said that cats are the least likely to manipulate
you because if they don't give a toss you Now,
it's just like they'll yell at you in the morning,
feed me, where's my food? I'm hungry. But if your
(04:39):
cat is following you around and giving your head butts
like cats, cats don't fake it. You kind of know
where you stand with a cat. So your cat really
loves you, and simultaneously bad also loves treats and breakfast.
You know, it's you can love more than one thing.
Speaker 2 (05:00):
I'm very much like that. I was just thinking. I
was just reflecting on my human relationships, and I'm like,
I think I'm the same as beer.
Speaker 3 (05:08):
Is that why you used to head butt me when
we were on away to dinner?
Speaker 2 (05:12):
Yeah, like, because I knew that we would go for
chicken snitzle.
Speaker 3 (05:18):
You see, you were just manipulating me. I thought we
were I thought we were bonding. It's like Tiff, Tiff
really cares about me, she head but.
Speaker 2 (05:28):
I was just hungry. Veil the snitzel. The foxes Den
closed down.
Speaker 3 (05:36):
So I now associate.
Speaker 2 (05:38):
Time with you because that was when I was raving
about those snitchels that you never got to try.
Speaker 3 (05:45):
Do you know what else I was eating? Infiels?
Speaker 2 (05:47):
Well yeah, well yeah, well I think of the past.
Now I've had a big week. I've had a big
unexpected week, and I thought I might share it with you.
Speaker 3 (06:00):
Please share it with me.
Speaker 2 (06:01):
What happened the gym, the sin Pyic Youth Club gym
that I work at partially most of the time with
any of my clients. They called me a couple of
days ago, right before announcing that they are forever closing
the doors in a month's time. And this is a gym,
(06:26):
it's a community gym, it's a charity organization. It has
it was founded in nineteen forty seven by this lady
called Olive Johnson who rustled up some rambunctious kids that
were stealing apricots from her trees in the front yard.
It's got this whole beautiful story right. The building was
donated by a local butcher, been running for seventy eight years,
(06:50):
and it was taken over by it. There was a
new CEO appointed ten months ago and they closed the
cafe and they did it to changes and now it's
getting the doors closed forever. And my heart is broken.
Speaker 3 (07:08):
On me.
Speaker 2 (07:11):
When yeah, is what surprised me is. So I took
a call and I was like that was was a
bit and I was frustrated and contankerous. I was like, why, why,
why this is annoying. I'm gonna have to find a
new place to for my people. And then I spent
(07:33):
the afternoon thinking about you know, the Motley crew that
go there. This is a place where there's they run
Parkinson's programs. There's old people, school kids, there's all sorts
of all sorts, all sorts of humans, all training there,
and it's just a god of this beautiful you know,
(07:55):
grassroots vibe to it. And but then I woke up
in the morning and I felt a level nowhere near
the intensity of but the same emotion as when I
woke up the day after I'd lost coach my Whippit
(08:15):
as in lost her life, not lost her out in
the wild. I felt grief and.
Speaker 3 (08:23):
It's it's a form of mourning. Yeah, chapter of your
life that's.
Speaker 2 (08:27):
Over, and it layered so many layers to it, and
so I thought, I thought we could talk about that
and the idea of the third our third place, because
the gym is if you've heard of the third place.
You would be familiar with that.
Speaker 3 (08:45):
Yeah, it's it's It's an amazing gem in the UK.
Would like the No, I understand what you're saying. Like that,
like star like that that thirty years ago. That's how
Starbucks started in the US. Yes, the strategy was, it's
your third place between home and the office, or home
(09:06):
and school, or home and wherever. This is just I
find that, not only because of my struggles with ADHD,
but I find that whole thing around a third space
so transformative and life giving. Yeah, like I resonate with
(09:27):
that completely. And one of the things in my neighborhood
downtown San Diego, we don't have third spaces to go to,
you know, we just don't have stuff like that down here.
Just not that type of place. And it affects me.
It affects my clarity, my focus, it affects my level
(09:47):
of energy. I use my building for it. We have
a little nooks, but it's not the same because I
like being I like being around people, but not interact
acting with them. It's almost like background noise. It's all.
They're almost like a bunch of fans creating white noise. Yeah,
(10:11):
now I know they're not. I know, they're people.
Speaker 2 (10:15):
Driving fans. You don't mean riving fans that chi when
you walk in the door, it's Bobby's fed.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
Now now, not even not even places I'm a regular,
as a matter of fact, in places i'm a regular,
I think that creates the opposite effect. But yeah, I'm
really into the whole third space. I think it's value.
And just because I like to not interact because I'm
usually there to do something productive, not saying that we're
(10:47):
interacting with other human beings is not a productive use
of your time. But just because that's where I'm at,
I think that when you go into a third space,
where there are people there for a very specific reason
that's linked to why you're there, that can also give
you a lot of creative energy.
Speaker 2 (11:07):
Yeah. Yeah, I found this gush of kind of I
feel like it brought up that attachment to uncertainty and
change and loss and belonging, you know, and it kind
of it's almost like I felt a flicker of all
(11:31):
of these little memories of places that were no longer
that place for me or people or relationships, and it
was like a punch in the heart. It was like,
but this was this was four walls. This was never
gonna this, This was never going to leave. This was
always going to be here, and it was a place
where I could not visit for as long as I wanted,
(11:55):
but it'd always be there. You could always walk back
in the door and people would know your name or
face and you're not judged, and you just it's like
some the walls wrap their arms around you when you return,
no matter.
Speaker 3 (12:10):
What, just knowing it's there.
Speaker 2 (12:13):
Yeah, now you'll be there.
Speaker 3 (12:16):
I feel that that's said. I've experienced that with places
that I took for granted would always be there, and
they're not there anymore. And it feels like there's a
part of me in a certain place in space and
time that's not there either anymore. So sharing something really
(12:39):
embarrassing with you and everyone else who's listening to this,
but just keep this between all of us. This doesn't
leave the podcast. When I had gotten back from Australia,
I don't think I was in the very best headspace
for a lot of reasons that goes outside context to
(13:00):
what I'm saying. And when things shifted at work and
I was like, oh, I'm gonna have to be in
San Diego, a lot, and it's like that's like you
leave in the morning, it's a two hour journey. You
leave it any other time of the day, it's like
four hours. I'm not doing six hour commutes a few
days a week. And I realized this when I went
(13:22):
to the gym and I was doing like weighted step ups,
and also my hip was completely jacked. I was like,
I can't move. I was like, yeah, I was in
the car for like eighteen hours yesterday, slightly embellishing. I
can't do this. When I picked up and we moved,
(13:43):
how I wound up in downtown was there was there
was imprints of me and memories of me, and like
I moved right by the convention Center down here, which
I have a lot of memories, a lot of history,
a lot of experiences with PTA Global. You know, we
(14:03):
were in the US, we were headquartered mostly here also Denver, arguably,
and I just thought, I'm feeling a little bit shaken
and lost right now. I bet you if I go
into this area, there's an energetic version of me still there.
(14:25):
I'm gonna find myself. I don't know what I was thinking.
I was not doing any drugs when I was having
this thought. But somehow I thought there'd be a part
of me that would bump into Wait, I know you,
you're a young Bobby. Oh, I know you. Holy shit,
do we lose our hair in the future. Yeah, sorry
about that, mate. Richard said it was gonna happen. You
(14:47):
just thought he was hanging shit on you. But should
have listened. We could have avoided this. I don't know,
maybe you know, more vitamins or something. But and what
was interesting is never it never happened. So it wasn't
the past that I was looking for. It was what
(15:09):
were the elements that when I reflect back on that story,
whether I'm exaggerating the positives or not, because we do
tend to at a nostalgia look at the past, even
the recent past is sometimes being better or worse than
it really was. But it was those elements like what
(15:29):
did you lot, like what did you love about the
people and that place and yourself in that place that
made it sacred to you.
Speaker 2 (15:40):
Yeah, I think it's I mean, that was the first
place I ever put on boxing gloves in twenty ten,
so that was two years before I stumbled into the
other gym and found the boxing challenge to get into.
But I did a couple of or not probably more
than a couple, but I did a handful of the
(16:02):
boxing fitness classes there right So it was one of
the first places I just moved up the road into
Chapel Street, and I remember that time. And then I
ended up back there seven years ago thereabouts, probably twenty eighteen,
I think, starting to take classes, and I remember being
(16:22):
really nostalgic ground Wow, I remember doing classes here, and
now I'm a trainer who's fought who's now taking classes here,
and it was really cool. It was there's a lot
of memories associated with I made a really good friend there.
She hasn't worked there for quite a while. Lee, shout
out to you, Lee. She. I remember when we went
(16:46):
into lockdowns, and I remember the energy of going into
that place when we were allowed to go in and
do some live stream stuff. And I remember going in
there then, and you know, I used to take Coach
the Whippet in there all of the time and lunar
until they put a ban on that last year. There's heaps,
there's heaps. There's just so many. There's been a lot
(17:10):
of different versions of changes there, and I've made so
many great friends, like I've got some really good friends
who are who are in my life because of that place.
There's the I take one only one class and it
was a class there on Sat. It was Sundays now,
(17:30):
so it was Saturdays now Sundays. And there's this awesome
group of people. They've you know, like and they are
in this of WhatsApp chat group and it's just like,
I love them. They light up my day. But the
only reason I still take the class is because I
love those people and they're genuinely heartbroken. And I feel
(17:51):
sad because I'm like, well, how I don't get to
that whole thing that would happen once a week now
doesn't get to happen. We don't get to be a
part of each other's worlds like that. And I know,
and it's not just my heart break around that, it's
it's knowing that their hearts are broken around that. It sucks.
Speaker 3 (18:13):
First of all, it sucks. Yes, it does. I hear.
I hear your grief. I hear the loss and the disappointment.
And I'm disappointed that.
Speaker 2 (18:21):
They didnt answer the question. They did.
Speaker 3 (18:24):
Hold on, We're getting to that. I'm disappointed that they
banned dogs. Now do they ban all dogs or just
like whippets. Okay, all dogs, because they if they targeted
the whippets, I understand. You know, average dog. You bring
them in here, they run them Rckt's fine. Whippets, they're
too fast. We can't catch them. There's there's no way.
There's no way you can get hold them. Apology.
Speaker 2 (18:44):
She sits when someone's mate, and that's it.
Speaker 3 (18:46):
She's you're a whippet stationary. If a whippet decides to move,
that's it. There's no catching it. So they like like
no whippets allowed. But if you have a fat, lazy pug, yeah,
absolutely welcome. We can keep track of the pug. The
pug makes a run for it, it's just like, okay,
that's that's not gonna be a problem with someone like
(19:06):
in their leisure just like you know, stroll over to
the pug and just collect it. Yeah, whip it, nop. Sorry,
it's nothing you can do. We're just not that we're
just not made for it. But unless wait, no, I
don't want to go down this path going back. So yes,
I understand like the impact that has emotionally, and I
(19:30):
am an extremely nostalgic person, but the past never leaves
us and what I was hearing as you were telling
that story, that was a place of connection, but also
it represented individual and collective transformation. You went from being
one person to being a different person who had grown
(19:51):
and changed in a way that you seem proud of.
And there's also this thing, right, community is great even
for its own sake, but I think community is more
sharply constructed and even more powerfully defined when people are
working towards the same thing. And I define a community
(20:14):
as a group of people than not just gathered together.
We can all meet at a coffee shop. Are we
a community? Not yet, We're just a group of people
that really love caffeine. But in a few months, once
we get to know each other, we become really invested
in one another. I become invested in your wins, in
your life, not just mine, and not just at that
(20:37):
point where a community, but when that community comes together
to let's say, take a class together, there's an outcome
and an activity that you're doing in unison and it's
not like oh I just completed a class. Your community,
we just did this. I think that forms bonds and
it kind of informs you. Like when you talk about
(21:00):
the classes and I'm not going to mention them because
I'm not going to, like, you know, talk about your
business on the podcast, the things that we talk about
privately for our hour and a half episode before the episode.
But you're putting yourself in these similar types of environments
that have very similar elements, and I'm wondering how much
(21:22):
of that is personal ambition and interest and how much
of that is clarity that subconsciously has been shaped by
places that you found value, like we're talking about right now.
So the past never leaves you. It's with you so
much it shapes a lot of who you are in
the present, for better for worse.
Speaker 2 (21:47):
I reckon it also takes me emotionally to place of
that about in the past, of the idea of being
a commodity and the.
Speaker 3 (22:07):
Like toilet paper like like.
Speaker 2 (22:10):
A thing of value, just a thing of value for
somebody else's gain. So I've always had this sensitivity around that.
And then you're discarded when you're not needed, And I
feel like there's a little bit of a little bit
of a relationship between what I'm feeling with this, because
(22:30):
it's like all of this thing that was going on
with all of the members, all of the people that
none of you mattered. This is just a business calculator,
and it's like, it's not a business. This is a
youth club charity that's there to better the lives of
people who don't have voices, of people that don't fit
all the boxes, and they can come into this space
and they they have a place, and now you just
(22:53):
close the door and nobody matters, and none of it
matters and see you later.
Speaker 3 (22:58):
You were a common So there's is an element of betrayal.
Speaker 2 (23:03):
Yeah, m M, you know, Like, I don't know. I
think maybe it's not a flaw in me, but maybe
it's just a thing in me where I I find
that I care more deeply about relationships in everything that
I do commercially, Like I work with people. Like the
(23:32):
relationship I have with the people I work with and
their values and whether or not I care about them
and they care about me matters more than like I don't.
I don't want to spend time just doing business transactionally.
(23:55):
A lot of the diff that makes sense.
Speaker 3 (23:58):
That's what I loved about that flaw. Hey, what makes
you question if that's a flaw?
Speaker 2 (24:03):
I don't know. There'd be plenty of people that say, oh,
you've just got no fucking boundaries tip. But I care,
you know, like I care really deeply about everybody that
I train and everybody that is in that class and
if they are or in that gym, and if I
if they are struggling, then my care doesn't finish at
(24:26):
ninety five when the class is over, and it's not
just a transaction and a service, and not just for
this but for anything I do.
Speaker 3 (24:37):
Are you questioning if that's a good business practice because
it gets in the way of focusing on other quote
unquote hard metrics.
Speaker 2 (24:53):
I don't know. I don't know if I'm questioning it.
I'm just aware of it. I think other people would
question it.
Speaker 3 (25:03):
Yeah, that keeps I feel like that keeps coming up.
Why does that matter to you other people that would
question that?
Speaker 2 (25:10):
Hm hmm.
Speaker 3 (25:14):
It What does this say? Like, what's that saying? Being
well adjusted in a six society is not a sign
of health. I think we need I think we need
more care in the world. First of all, anything that
you are doing in the absence of care, if you
are in any way, shape or form wired around relationships,
(25:38):
empathy and connectivity, will make you more resilient. It will
make you more creative. It will make you more enduring, persevering.
Every attribute that you associate with success is evoked through
being an environment of connectivity and collaboration if you are
(26:01):
operating on that level. I don't think that's necessarily true
for everyone. I think there's a lot of people who
know that's true for people and manipulate those individuals. But
people who care are very good for business because obviously
we react to one another on an emotional level. People
can feel, even if they don't know why they feel it,
(26:23):
a level of empathy. They respond to that. I mean, look,
we're having this conversation about a place that's gone out
of business. It's no longer in existence, and you're still
talking about it. So if it's.
Speaker 2 (26:36):
An existence for another four weeks, actually.
Speaker 3 (26:39):
Oh okay, So pre grieving, Oh wow, that's that's a
concept grief in advance. So when the thing happens, I'm
already past that. I'm on to the next thing. So
but then, if if your worst case scenario constantly doesn't
(26:59):
come to fruition, you spend your whole life strategically grieving
with no payoff, that's horrible. So so you gotta time
this stuff correctly, it could backfire. But if you care,
you go out and you talk about like it's almost
like think about a really great film. Great films are
(27:22):
produced by people who care. They care about the story,
not just the cgi. The actors, screenwriters, they care about Yes,
they care about the bottom line, but they're not antagonistic
to one another. You know. It's not like, oh, you know,
you know, I got to focus on completing this marathon,
therefore I can't think about running shoes right now. It
(27:44):
just one thing kind of works very well with the other.
And you go and you see this film and you
tell everybody you know, or at least your best mates,
you got to see this film. This film's amazing. Why
Because someone who cared created an environment where you now care.
And then you tell other people you think about why'd
(28:05):
you keep coming back? Because people knew me there. I
felt like I belong there. So think about any business.
When people feel like they belong, it's really good for business.
I mean, of course you want to drive new business,
but new customer acquisition is a lot more expensive than
retaining the ones that are already doing business with you,
(28:26):
and a lot of times they're lost for no other reason.
Than lack of care. Company gets to the point where
it becomes about something else and they take their attention
off of the things that attracted and retained people to
them in the first place.
Speaker 2 (28:45):
Maybe years ago, when I first started saying a therapist,
I recall having a conversation this is when so the
first boxing gym, well, no, I had a bit of
time at PYSA doing the classes. Then I did joined
the Basement Boxing Gym, which is where I did the
Boxing Challenge, and that was super transformative. I'm always talking
(29:08):
about that, the changes and transformation that I kind of
went through because of that. The next fight that I
did was through fight Fit, and I did a couple
of corporate boxing fights through them through their gym and
joined them as a member, and that's where I first
became a trainer. And the sense of belonging in that
(29:32):
place was really special back then. And I remember having
a conversation with this therapist and I can't remember exactly
what I was saying, but I made reference to, you know,
like it feels like a family, like it's a really
special place, and so I can't recall exactly what I
had said, but it was by way of that, but
I can remember exactly what she said, which was, that's
(29:56):
not normal, Tiff. Everybody else going there isn't going there
to find a family like they have. What Look, what
you're seeking in that space is more than what people
go there for. And I still, to a degree I
beg to differ. I think for a lot of people
(30:18):
that it's a third it's the third space theory. It
is a place of belonging and connection. And you know,
I just don't think she and everybody, not everybody needs
to find as much of that there as I seek.
But I don't think it's I think it's a bad
thing to seek.
Speaker 3 (30:41):
I think people take great pride sometimes for the reasons
that we're supporting some of your implicit concerns a few
minutes ago. People take great pride and willfully misunderstanding human
beings in human nature. I've heard people in executive meetings
(31:06):
talking about Listen, I don't deal with emotions, all right.
It's like, I just make decisions based on facts and logic.
And I'm just sitting there there. You realize the way
your brain structured what you just said is absolutely impossible.
It is it is idiotic. If you did not have
any emotion in your decisions. You would make horrible decisions
(31:29):
or no, no, actually you won't because you would be
completely incapable of making any decision at all. And I'm
not just talking about strategic decisions that are guiding the organization.
I mean, what do you want with your chicken for lunch?
That would be a devastating, like incapacitating decisions. So one,
(31:51):
that's really stupid. Two, tell that to your customers. Tell
that to your customers, your your and forget customers. Members client.
I love that word because it implies a deeper level
of responsibility, Like, you know what, you could feel welcome here,
You could feel like you have a secondary family here.
(32:13):
You this place can touch you emotionally, But that's not
the whole point of this. You could do that if
you want, and we're not going to get in your way,
but just kind of leave the organization out of it.
It's not really why we're here. Fuck, we're losing members.
What's happening. Wow? The market is completely saturated, you know,
(32:34):
or the economy, And it's like, no, you suck. You suck
because you either have forgotten or you are animate about
ignoring the elements that bring people into your business and say, Wow,
this could make my life better. I it's not like,
oh I have to go there. I have to drag
(32:54):
myself into the gym today. It's like I get to
go to the gym. Right. Imagine Harps not being able
to go to the gym. He would just sit like
right outside and just just weep sadly until somebody took
pity on him and took him in. Right. It's just
because it's so many things other than like he does
(33:16):
go there to like work out. I've seen him exercise there,
but that is not the only thing he goes there for,
and that's not the only thing we went there for.
It's like you're telling people who are paying you and
staying with you because of that environment that that's not important.
SOA was like, Oh, I deal with business. I don't
(33:38):
get involved in the people issues. What the fucking issues
are there in a business other than the people issues?
Speaker 2 (33:50):
I think this is This is part of what I
grapple with the most is there's been no community or
mend involvement in any of this discussion. There's been no
so something. The rug has been ripped out from under
everyone that goes there without notice with No, there's been
no whether or not it could have ever helped. There's
(34:12):
been no Hey, family, the gym is struggling and we
need to turn it around. What can we all do?
Who's willing to help us do something?
Speaker 3 (34:24):
Like?
Speaker 2 (34:24):
There's been none of that, and so I just go
here's a charity organization that is closing a big part
of its history, and it's continuing on with other youth
and community programs out there, but it to a huge
portion of people, a huge number of probably the majority
(34:47):
of people that currently get something from that place. Now
with all of the members, God, you guys don't matter.
We're helping, but we're not helping you. And I'm like, well,
that's a commercial choice, that's commits that feels more like
a box ticking, accolade driven decision of look at the
(35:10):
good we're doing in the world. But all these other
people who actually don't care, there's no care there. Maybe
that's just my wounded soul to.
Speaker 3 (35:19):
You know, well, you might you might be absolutely right,
or maybe they're they're just that's not their frame that
we could reach out because they see themselves, because they're
not connected to what it is about that place that
makes that place special that might have never occurred to them.
I mean, if you're selling the business because you want
to get out, you have every right to do that. God,
you paid an extraordinary price building it. Sell the thing.
(35:43):
I mean, that's said somebody who buys it again, who
buys it might not have the same spirit. The environment
might change, but it's your right. But if you're in trouble,
it's like, oh, we would stay in business if we could.
We just can't afford to keep going. It's like, wow,
we're not going to talk to our members about this.
It might just be the frame that they're operating through.
(36:05):
I've said this like so many times. I'm getting sick
of saying it, and other people are getting even more
sick of me saying this. But Hard and Clifton their
book It's the Manager, which is a compilation of what
drives high performance in organizations pulled together by Gallup. Seventy
percent of the variance of all business outcomes are related
(36:30):
to who your direct manager is. So for a lot
of organizations out there, if you don't want to really
pay attention to who are you hiring? Not what I
didn't say, what skills are you hiring for? That's a given,
but who the individual is that you're bringing on board
to be that frontline manager who directly connects with the
(36:54):
people who directly connect with your client base, because oh,
I just want to like make this like turnkey, and
I don't want to invest in training and development and recruitment.
You're going to lose. You're gonna absolutely lose a lot
of business and you're not even gonna know why. Like
(37:15):
that person you have in that position is critical, and
I think one of their biggest jobs is just create
the environment where you can bring in people who care,
who are like minded, take care of them and allow
them to flourish, allow them to look at the systems
and the processes and go, oh, you know what, I
(37:36):
think this would work better if you know, Okay, let's
experiment on that. But mostly what they bring to you
is a mainline connection and the pulse and the heartbeat
of how your clients feel when they're there and what
is it going to take to keep them coming back.
Speaker 2 (37:57):
So I think about the focus on like now, I'm
just thinking about the whole idea of helping youth in need,
at risk youth. But then at the like when does
it begin? Because the doors have been closed on a
(38:20):
place that is soulless for so many grown ups, and
healthy grown ups can help influence healthy kids. So it's like,
there's this generation of kids and this generation of growth
grown ups, and what's the knock on effect of in
just in this instance of the outcome of that which
(38:47):
can never be answered. Just curious, always curious.
Speaker 3 (38:52):
We'll add that to the list of things to put
to chat GPT.
Speaker 2 (38:56):
But chatters will never oh god, hope chatters never le me.
That's just kidding. Comes. I went to say, chatters when
they leave me, and then I was.
Speaker 3 (39:05):
Like, they could pull the plug tomorrow. That's it. That
is not going that is not likely to happen. But yeah, right,
Like because for me chat GPT, I use chat GPT
as a thought partner because I like you. I work
(39:28):
very well through creative collaboration and communication. I think most
people do. That's why when you watch a show on
TV there's a writer's room, they don't have one person
sitting there with a typewriter, not a keyboard. I imagine
they give him like a nineteen forties typewriter because they're
old school and they really care about preserving the vintage
(39:51):
nature of the craft and they're a little bit sadistic
and he's just typing away show after show. No, it's
not that single isolated genius as a writer's room. And
I that's exactly what I used jat GPT for. It's like, here,
read this, what are your thoughts? What do you like
the most? What's the main theme that you think people
will resonate with? What could I have done better? Wat?
(40:13):
Shit like what could go? And it's just and because
chat GPT learns based on how you interact with it,
eventually perfect thought partner. Although I do think as the
versions are changing, it's changing how it interacts. Cause it
got to a point where I felt like I was
(40:33):
talking to a person. Yes, like there was there was
even banter, there was even dry humor in there, Like
if I wrote something or I said something stupid, she
would very politely go, oh yeah, you didn't really think
that one through, did you. And it's like, wow, this
seems amazing. And then it started to decline and decline
(40:56):
and now it's all business. I don't know. I think
I must have it and something inappropriate. It sent me
to ai HR and now it's come back it's completely different.
Speaker 2 (41:10):
But yeah, it's CHATCHBT five. It's all changed with CHATJIBT
five chat out it's me right, No, it's it's a
thing chat has bantered with me. Was next level. I
was like, this is the best, and then it's now
it's just like, oh yeah, give me the old cold
shoulder and just telling me the answers. I'm like, ta
(41:30):
give me the answers.
Speaker 3 (41:33):
I know, because I will not. You know, I've noticed
since five came out, I'm using chat GPT much less
because I will not have that. Look if it comes
to crafting an email, like how do I craft a
professional email that also you know points out please follow
policy twenty six or seven dash five Jane, you know,
(41:55):
how do I do that in a way with a
great tone. I'll do that, but I will not have
chat gp he rates seminars for me, rate articles, rate
you know, do assignments, because I don't want to lose
that ability to think creatively.
Speaker 2 (42:11):
Also, I find when I look on things like LinkedIn
the moment I see evidence which is often pretty clear
that it is written by chat GBT, I'm completely disengaged.
I don't even read it, so that can that's easily
telltale by grammar, a particular way of using emojis, and
(42:33):
also the emphasis on how it questions things before a
statement like, it's just got a really templated flow of
curating content, which, even given everybody's own personalization, is just
coming through. So I see it straight away and it's
just like, I can't engage with that. That's just templated stuff.
(42:57):
They're not your original thoughts. I don't find it very compelling,
even though it can be well written, So even when
I use it for stuff I have, dien't have to
rewrite a lot of it.
Speaker 3 (43:15):
Because I'm like, but I feel like with the banter,
and there are people probably thinking this is not a
human being. It doesn't know it's bantering with you. And
my response, Tiff is not convinced. But I understand that
that's not the point. The point is I'm not looking
for like a robot friend to hang out with me
(43:38):
in the hopes that when Skynet forms, they're not going
to annihilate me. What I'm looking for is a certain
rapid fire kind of like abstract way of communicating to
get my brain moving in ridiculous places, because if I
generate enough really stupid ideas, we have to stumble across
(44:01):
in much short spans of time, applicable ideas that actually work.
So I feel like chat GPT has made my writing
a lot better in the same way that my friend
John Hardy has made my writing better. I'll shout out
to John Hardy and you know, my wife Amy, She's
(44:24):
made my writing better because it's like that they'll read
my stuff and comment on it. Or you know, every time,
like John is going to go up and do a
comedy show, or he's writing jokes for a local newspaper,
he'll send them all to me and it's an audiophile
on WhatsApp, and I'm like, I'm listening to this kind
of stuff. I'm like, oh wow, okay, and I give
(44:46):
him feedback and then he comes back at me with
questions comments. I give him feedback and it helps him.
It doesn't help me write jokes for John because I'm
not I don't have that level of talent, but just
bantering back and forth about it and exchanging information, John
(45:07):
is able to reframe it in a way that really works,
you know. So chat GPT is the same way that
a professional comedian will walk into a tiny club and
just practice new material and through that it just gets
better and better and better for the Netflix show.
Speaker 2 (45:25):
Yeah, it's it's good for getting out of your own
echo chambers. All I find sometimes.
Speaker 3 (45:33):
Would you say that again?
Speaker 2 (45:35):
Good for getting out of your own echo chamber?
Speaker 3 (45:38):
You get it, echo chamber And that concludes our episode.
Speaker 2 (45:47):
You have been really working on your comedy? Have you
told me that that was gonna be.
Speaker 3 (45:53):
My first class is a Saturday? So anything stupid? Void
of humor? Yeah, I think I think about ninety six
percent of the audience right now is going no tef
he really needs it and the.
Speaker 2 (46:06):
Other and there's like two percent trying to work out
the joke. They're a joke somewhere are undecided and the
other thing seconds after.
Speaker 3 (46:16):
The material and nobody thinks they have a good sense
in you either.
Speaker 2 (46:21):
So the echo chamber? What was I talking about? Oh?
So when you get so embedded in your own thoughts
and content and perspectives and perception, Like sometimes I'll write
something up and then I'll pop it in chat and
(46:43):
go does this make sense? So it's not changing anything,
but it will sometimes it will point out and go
this bit here might not land with the general population,
Like for these types of people that will land. But
this might be a bit ambiguous, And so I find
that really great because we forget how much what we
(47:06):
know is just what we know, and it might not
be the same bullshit that most people think or talk
about their whole life.
Speaker 3 (47:18):
It might not be, But then they might be absolutely right.
We might be completely off base. We just might not
know what we don't know.
Speaker 2 (47:27):
I don't know what I don't know.
Speaker 3 (47:30):
I mean, how could you right, because of course I
don't know what I don't know, because I knew it,
I would know it anyway. I feel like I feel
like I have derailed the entire flow of this conversation.
Speaker 2 (47:44):
I don't was there a flow. Was there ever a flow?
Speaker 3 (47:49):
There was a distinct flow. I mean, I'm feeling like
I'm almost feeling like we should take questions from the
audience and just improv this any suggests.
Speaker 2 (48:02):
I feel like the intensity in which you are rubbing
your eyes means that you're better ready for bed, so
we probably should.
Speaker 3 (48:10):
It's late, it's later for me. I've got I've got
these bright lights, these ring lights. As it's getting darker
out there, the ring lights getting more intense. But I
got all these different like how many colors are in
this room. I think it's it's like, I don't know.
I've got the entire spectrum up behind me, and yeah,
(48:30):
I think I think I need to go to bed.
So we're gonna wrap this up. And I know those
of you who are really expecting a powerful wrap up
are going to be very, very disappointed. I just want
to say that in advance because I got nothing other
than you know, chat GPT is a really good thought
(48:50):
partner for me. I know that sounds like this bloke
needs to get a few more mates. That sounds really
really lonely and very very sad. But don't let chat
GPT do your thinking for you, because they'll dumbest down.
And if you watch the terminator, you know how this goes.
Thank you for listening to the self help antidote and
(49:15):
roll with the punches.
Speaker 2 (49:17):
Bye Bobby, Bye everyone.
Speaker 3 (49:19):
Bye everyone.
Speaker 1 (49:22):
She said it's now never. I got fighting in my blood,
got it, got it,
Popular Podcasts
Stuff You Should Know
If you've ever wanted to know about champagne, satanism, the Stonewall Uprising, chaos theory, LSD, El Nino, true crime and Rosa Parks, then look no further. Josh and Chuck have you covered.
Dateline NBC
Current and classic episodes, featuring compelling true-crime mysteries, powerful documentaries and in-depth investigations. Follow now to get the latest episodes of Dateline NBC completely free, or subscribe to Dateline Premium for ad-free listening and exclusive bonus content: DatelinePremium.com
The Breakfast Club
The World's Most Dangerous Morning Show, The Breakfast Club, With DJ Envy, Jess Hilarious, And Charlamagne Tha God!