October 8, 2025 • 35 mins
Mark LeBusque dropped back in for an impromptu chat this week and we went straight to the guts of it. He’s had a massive year, hit burnout, and is here to say it out loud. We unpacked the quiet creep of overdoing it, nervous systems on the red line, the ego hit when your worth is tied to your work, and the awkward bit where you’re the person who teaches this stuff and still end up cooked.
Right now, Mark's pulling guitars off the wall again, doing more local, less travel, and finding joy that isn’t tied to invoices. It’s honest, a bit messy, and very human. Regulation over hustle. Enough over more. And I have a feeling it's a chat that will be relatable to many right now.
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Episode Transcript
Available transcripts are automatically generated. Complete accuracy is not guaranteed.
Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is role with the punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
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Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
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reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Michaelbusk, what a treat?
(00:54):
This is what an unexpected treat. Here you are just
out of nowhere turning up. You've been out. I don't
know where you've been. Where have you been?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I disappeared up me own't asked for a while. I reckon,
but I don't know. I've been been around, but we
haven't spoken for a while, so who knows what might
happen to here.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's made for a tough year because it is. We're
almost the tail end of September and I reckon. I've
only had two pods with you this year, and you
were quite a regular last year and then you just disappeared. Actually,
you had a lot of impact on my life late
last year and then you just disappeared.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Wow. Wait, is that kind of your dog's barking?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I thought it was my dogs, but they're not.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
But it was upset too, Luna's upset too. Did he
go tell him? Tell him for me?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh jesus, I don't know where did he go?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
He disappeared, Like even for myself. I haven't done a
podcast since I was just sending a potty to a
group today, Can you be too human in the workplace?
And that was record a long time ago. But my
last podcast I did of my own would have been
August September last year. Then I think I did one
with you later in the year that came out and
(02:12):
I think I was heading off to Shri Lanka at
the time. That was November, so yeah, well we it's like, yeah,
I just disappeared.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
How has life changed? Has life changed? Have you changed changed?
I know, where's the surfing dude?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Oh no?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I nearly buzz cut about a week and a half ago,
and the guy said, they may not be ready for
that yet, but just worked your way to it. So
it'll be interesting when I go into the room and
we get people to judge me.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
With the difference in the look.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So yeah, it'll be I think people, I don't want
to look corporate, so I thought it'd go really short,
and then they'll think you're a bit of a fucking
psycho again, like they did when I had my buzz
cut before. They used to to me, you know, what
part of the defense force were you in? And then
member hair was long. It's like, where do you go surfing?
(03:07):
Isn't it really funny that it's sort of the same
person in some respects, but just different on the outside,
and all of a sudden people look at you in
a very different way.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
How big of impact does that have on how you interact,
how you feel yourself interacting because you bounce off the
energy of the people's like, people make an assumption and
have a perception of you, and then you step in,
you start interacting and you ride off the energy of people.
Does that change for.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You with the change of appearance. Yeah, Oh, it's not really.
It's just that when they walk into the room, they
sort of look at me a bit funny because there
was sort of a bit clean cut Mark before COVID
and then and then they would see me in the
room and they I wasn't all that quick on updating
(04:00):
my shots on LinkedIn or on my website. So if
you go there now, out to my website, you'll be like,
who the fuck is Tiff talking to It sounds like him,
but it doesn't look like him because on there, I'm
right fall into that the hair was the hair was
running beautifully at that point in time, flowing. But no, look,
(04:22):
I sort of had this view that I keep saying
to people that when you're on a witness protection scheme,
you've got to continue to change your appearance just in case.
So and I have a bit of a laugh about that.
But now, look, I don't think it's I don't think
it changes much about the energy. You know, you've seen
the photo from twenty fourteen, when I first started doing
(04:44):
the work, when I was very corporate. But I don't know,
I still turn up as Mark. I just like that
there are different answers now that come out to the
judgment questions because you know, I'm starting to look more
like a fifty eight year old blow who is receding
in the hairline somewhat.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
If this year had a theme to it, what's this
year's theme?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Burnout?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
No tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So we were talking late last year, and I remember
I listened to that potty when we were in the
bus driving around Sri Lanka and it was a bit
like I'm feeling a bit naked at the moment. I
feel a bit jaded. And then I did nothing about it.
So what we do, as you know, in the work,
I do adaptive challenges. You can either deny or ignore them.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I did both, and I reckon.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I finished working about late November, and I remember being
on a bit of a It was a bit like,
you know, it's a bit like being on tour at
that stage.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I think. I think there was a very very very.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Very full year of travel and delivery and all that
sort of stuff, which I still enjoyed, but I noticed
a cup little things creeping in around habits and I
reckon those last ten days and I can sort of
see it from what was it.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
It was the second last in the last week in November.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So I remember I had a we tried to fit
in starting a new client and fitting it in so
I reckon. I woke up on one morning in the
Hunter Valley, I work up the next morning in Brisbane.
I work up the next morning in Mackay, and I
woke up the following morning in Townsville and the towns
(06:46):
will run was going to be out of working days.
I think it was nine days of facilitation out of
ten working days to kick a probe off. And I
remember getting to the end of it and jumping on
a plane back to Melbourne on the Friday to then
fly out to stri Lanka on the Saturday. And that
(07:07):
was the time that I should have I thought, think
I did take notice a bit of it. I decided
not to go back to work till about February, and
then I think I was a bit like I can't
be fucked as in not so much of the work,
but it was like the big thing for me. I'm
(07:29):
pretty ocd with with my my yard and my garden
and like Saturdays, it's not a big garden. I can
get get it done pretty quick. But I reckon for
about six weeks. I was like, elgat and do that,
and then I wouldn't go out and do it. And
then I was like, I'm going to go out and
do some cardio, and then I didn't go and do cardio.
And I remember because I have a holistic coach, Lauren
(07:52):
Miller up in the Hunter Valley.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
He's very good.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I hadn't spoken to Hersin's about September either, and I
just a message and I said, we need to have
a chat because fucking something right there. And so I
sort of walked her through it, and I told her
the things I just told you and your listeners and
she goes, you burn out, mate, I'm like, okay. So
(08:15):
so we've been working through that now for the best
part of four months, four or five months, and and
so there's been little things and you know, I didn't
I didn't understand it too much. But she said, you know,
you're a Dreamal was a fucked That's one of the
reasons why you're not doing much cardio at the moment,
because you just you just don't feel like it. You
(08:38):
can go and do it, but you you know, you'll
be forcing yourself. And I kept up with my strength stuff,
which I think was important. But yeah, I just felt
a bit bit yuck, and you know, and I'm working
my way out of it in a very deliberate way.
It's not like, you know, some people said, just just
(08:59):
get into it, and for me, it's like I'm still
in the room doing the things that the workload is
nowhere near what it was. Very deliberately cut that workload
back and a lot of work, a lot less traveling,
a lot more work being done here, virtually, a lot
of wonder one coaching, and some virtual programs in my
(09:22):
him made the Human Manager Academy, the online piece. But
that's been really good because there are some days when
I just can't be fucked. So, yeah, that's where'd I've paid.
I'm navigating my way through it with a longer term
plan to say that regardless of whether you think you've
(09:45):
whether you think you're cured, and I don't think I'll
ever be cured, that you're not going back to doing
what you're doing in twenty twenty four. So and that's
been tough too, because we've made a decision to say,
you know what, we're not looking to grow this business anymore.
If anything, we're looking to scale it back for the
next four years until you know whether it's some form
(10:06):
of retirement at six mid early sixties.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
So yeah, lots of lots of reflection.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I'm doing a piece of work at the moment with Lauren,
which is very much about you need to you need
to write down.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
She's pretty brutal. She's like, you all.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Your self worth on most of your self worth has
come out of your work, and now that you're not
working as much, you're struggling to find where that self works.
So I've got to do this activity at the moment,
which is self worth in as mark the worker and
the partner and the parent and the friend and the
(10:47):
dude who likes to do his own thing. So I'm
doing that work at the minute, and it's really interesting, Tiff,
because she's absolutely right. It's been a struggle to fill
in four or five of those columns because I have
been so caught up in you know, the dude who
goes out and helps other people.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
When you're in the middle of that, in the middle
of burnout and you're in the middle of your own
life and your own life is your own business, and
you're like, there's no escape from lubusque hate Q. So
talk us through what it's, what you've learned or what's helpful,
like how do you switch off? Because I'm kind of
(11:35):
like I'm similar by way of it's hard to it's
hard to realize when you're in it, when you're burning
yourself out until you're burned out, and then it's hard
to maintain perspective. Like it's very easy to go, all right,
I'm going to do this, I'm going to have a rest,
but then we're not really resting. We're thinking about other
stuff all of the time. And I'll have a day
(11:55):
off and you know, like, yeah, what's that been like practically.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Jeez.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So if I reflect on those last three or four months,
the first thing, the first thing I did, which.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Is really weird.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Once I had the diagnosis of it, I went back
to a few of my clients and said, did you
notice anything different in the room?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
And they're like.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Nah, And I said, so it's basically performance.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
But it was very performative. But I think I've gone
past it.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Although some people did say to me when I told them,
they're like, yeah, we were noticing that, and then they're like,
we're really sorry we didn't say something, And I go, well,
and these weren't people that I was working with. These
are actually just friends and acquaintances of mine.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Ah, just.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I think they noticed they'd noticed it, like a massive
build up of things. One of the things I noticed
was we weren't seeing your post much stuff. Usually you know,
you're here, you're there, you're everywhere, and you're putting stuff out.
And I just in the end, I was like, I
can't be fucked doing that. After a day, I'll go on,
you know, just fucking lay on the bed and go
(13:14):
to sleep and sort of do whatever I was going
to do. They have all this bloody shit going on
Premier QUARTERSOL, So I think that was part of it.
Like for me, I think that it's really funny because
it's it's still a bit it's still a bit cloudy
that stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I go, how have I shifted? What's the behavior? The
behavior has.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Been to first of all, stop denying and avoiding it,
so just accept it that it is a thing, and
then accept that you're the guy that tells people not
to get there, so fucking how are you doing. So
there was a bit of shame in that, a bit
of and I know I've spoken about it to a
few people in programs I've been running.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And they're like Jesus.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
But so I think there was the going from denying,
ignoring to them, going, well, this is it. This is
what it is, and and I'm happy to share that.
I think there's a bit of bit of healing comes
with that little things For me, the little behavior changes.
This is going to sound weird. Some days I'd be
I'd get up and I'll put this black T shirt
on because that's sort of my uniform in the room.
(14:24):
But I'd still have my pajama pants on and little
things Lauren, and then I might have a shina have
a share at eleven o'clock or midday or something like that.
Lauren was like, get up, do you have a share?
Have your showered for upg BTRPT, Go and do little things,
little behaviors. Have you showered, get yourself ready for work,
go into your office like you're working so but then
(14:47):
also have these little rest periods as well. So you know,
I look at my calendar compared to last year and
I'm like, fucking hell, Like it's Jesus, it's a really
quiet year. But it's that's a bity deliberate thing as well.
So I'm doing lots of little projects of work this
year rather than doing two or three really big ones.
(15:09):
Allison's been really cool, like she's on my back a
fair a bit, but in the right way, not nagging
about it, but just like just you be conscious of
getting caught back into the trap.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I don't. I don't if I don't think that, I
still don't think that. I'm when I say that there's
been some micro changes in behavior. There's some habits I
put in around a simple meditation off the car mapp
every morning, and I actually track myself on that to
make sure that like a five to ten minute just
start the day with that. Because when I was in
(15:47):
when I was right in the middle of burnout, what
was massive was my time on social media, as in
just fucking doom scrolling and reading the papers. And see,
one of the things Larren stopped me from doing is
reading the papers because she's like, that's going to make
you fucking angry.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Oh so much bad news. I'm all for that get
rid of.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
So I've I think I've had a cutback on that
stuff a bit as well. But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I do have a view that I don't think that
I'll get cured of burnout. I actually think that it's
Lauren had said to me a few times that be
careful because you know you're not. You mightn't be feeling
it at the moment, but this is pre the diagnosis.
But you're not far from it. You're closer to it
(16:36):
than you might think you are. And one of the
reasons you don't think you are is because you're so
frigging busy and being caught up in the identity and
that was like a drug, so you know, addicted to.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Being the guy in the room.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So I just think, I don't ever think I'm going
to be in a situation where I think that's not
going to happen to me again. So it's a regulating now,
I reckon. And part of regulation is accepting that it's
going to be it'll be less work and that, you know,
(17:14):
I'm still coming to terms with with that. We were saying,
let's have a you know, let's we had our biggest
year ever in activity and revenue and all that sort
of stuff, and it's like, we're going to have that
this year, and that's my little brain's going, We'll hang on,
you know, you should go hard again and do that again.
But yeah, I don't know, it's a bit it's still
(17:36):
foggy for me.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I reckon.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Tell me more about you don't think you can cure it?
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Well, I don't know. I think it's.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I don't know what sort of what, what sort of
analogy metaphor whatever to use. But like for me, like
for instance, to me as a as someone who like
I get it's it's it's hay fever time, right, so
I get our hey fever bad and it's like it's
starting up and whether hey fever's a good thing to
(18:11):
use or you know. I get irritated by things like
dust and I remember cleaning out my woodshed one time
and breaking it in fucking hives all over me, and
the doctor was like, mate, that stuff's already in you,
but it's just it'll distill, tip it over the edge
again by you going and doing activity that that really
triggers it. And I think that's the same with the
(18:32):
with the burnout. I don't I don't get I don't
get a sense I'm going to get to a point
where I'll go that's not going to happen to me again.
I reckon there'll be a level, and the level of
the level might be thirty five percent or might be
fifty percent. At the moment, I think it's more like eighty.
So you know, it wouldn't take a lot for me
to go back to that position that I've felt for
(18:52):
the last eight months or so. So I guess for me,
it's a bit of a whether it's a it could
be an excuse as well, but it's.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
A bit of a story of.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Or a reminder to say, if you think that you're
going really well now, don't be confused by that and
start running around like a fucking mad man again. Understand
that running around like a madman again for the next
three months might actually send you back to where you were.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Is it about do you reckon burnout? It's about doing
too much? Or about the neglect the not enough that
comes at the cost of that.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I think it's both. And if I know, and I
can easily look back through my habit changes last year.
So start of last year, start of the run, let's
call the run went from about March through to November
like crazy, crazy stuff. And in March, when I was
(19:51):
I think I was doing pretty well, I'd work with
a guy who was keeping an eye on lifestyle choices
around eating and drinking and getting to the gym. And
you know, if I think about when I went into
Mackay for about three months off and on. I'd got
myself a membership at the fitness first up there and
(20:15):
was going there every morning at five o'clock, and then
I'd pop around to the coffee shop. I have a
coffee with these old blocks i'd met, go off and
do my work, maybe go for a walk that night.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Order in.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
I'd had a self contained apartment, order in from the woolies,
an order for the week or two weeks whatever I
was there and be cooking in my room. So you know,
that was happening for about the first four months or so,
and then it started to be a bit less of that,
and it was a bit easy to go to the
local restaurants because there's plenty of them there, and I'd
(20:47):
still going to the gym, but.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Maybe I wouldn't go for that.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Walk as well, because I felt a bit tight after
the program, and I think it was more of a
It was this gradual thing, so I think there's a
combination of both. It was too much of one thing
and too much of one thing, which apparently brought me joy,
but it was really fucking filling my ego up.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Really.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
What that then did was go well, you're getting too
much of that, so you're going to have to lose
something somewhere. And where I lost it was in the
the more, you know, the habits that I created, which
which were actually helping me to do the work. So
as you know, I remember, I remember the last week
in Townsville and I was staying at a place and
(21:32):
right beliefs, the place was a fucking basket and robins
and you know what I'm like with ice cream and
shit like that. So it was like, go across the road,
grab yourself a grab yourself a countery somewhere. I have
a couple of beers, and on the way back, just
sneak into the basket and robins, get yourself a little
mini pack, and then gartinate it watching the TV.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
So that's that. That were the changes.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
So to your point, I think what I'm trying to
say is I'm gradually I'm gradually easing myself back into
the other stuff as well, because the feedback has been
because you're.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
An all or one guy, you'll try and go too
hard and blow up on the good stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So yeah, it's it's really funny because I I liked
I Usually I don't mind sitting with ambiguity on a
lot of stuff, but sitting with this, going I know
to fix this, I know what to do. But then
that's not what you've got to do. You've got to
sit with you know, if it says if I got
(22:38):
like this, if my mind or my body's telling me no,
I used to ignore that, but now I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
No, listening. You made an interesting point before, and I
remember talking about it and thinking about it a lot
last year, the idea that, and I'm thinking about it
because I was doing a bit of before and thinking
about exactly this, like the neurochemistry around our final flight state, right,
(23:11):
which is for fear, anxiety, and excitement, very similar chemical cocktail. Right,
So if you're just getting around excited, you know, And
for me, I had a year there where I when
I looked back at at this year, I went, yeah,
it's been a real tough year but also the most
really exciting year where I was just like so many
big exciting things happening, and you just go, well, that's
(23:34):
your nervous system. Like whether it's good fight or flight,
excitement or terror, your nervous system is getting fired constantly,
and that's exhausting, right, that's the sympathetic nervous system, and
that comes at a cost, and I think we we
forget that, and we forget that it's happening when we
(23:55):
look at our phones. It's happening when the news plays
their shitty undertones of music with their fucking click baity
titles and words that catastrophize everything, Like, oh my god,
we're so at odds with everything right now. I took
Facebook off my phone because I am such a binger
of social media. I'm sick of it. Do it on
(24:15):
my phone and I feel differently, I feel better not
having it.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, I think I'll be the same as that like it,
just to really reduce that time I didn't have. I've
been at Facebook for about four years because I just
got sick of all the shit going on in the
polarization during COVID. So I just, you know, I think,
as I understand, my instrument feed into that. But I'm
very fucking rarely in there because I just there's just
a lot of shit in here, and you know, I'm
(24:44):
very much into debate and discourse and all that sort
of stuff. But you know, we can see what happens
when someone doesn't like someone else's idea. We saw that
three or four weeks ago, didn't we mate, So you
know you've got to I think you've got to stay
away from that stuff, mind you. You know, I'm sort
of like, fuck twenty five, let's just get twenty five done.
But at the same time, Zoie got married in March,
(25:06):
which was amazing. It was really cool, like, you know,
every night and then again I say to Allison, this
just wish his ear had finished, and she's like, weigh on.
Zoe got married. We had a nice little holiday over
to the Greek Islands and that was a lot of fun.
And and then you know, in nine weeks time, because
that's where Zoey and them are today, it's Sooe's baby show. Today,
(25:27):
you know, I'll be your grandfather and all things going
well in about eight weeks time. It's like, there's lots
of joy still in here. But the thing that I've
worked out is when you are so fucking caught up
in your worth as Mark Labus dot com and not
as much as Mark Lebusk, the dad and the partner
and you know, the soon to be grandfather, is that
(25:48):
you don't there's no joy coming from that yet. Yeah,
So yeah, it's it's but if you guys still feel
a level of flatness, I still you know, I've been
in the room in the last four weeks. I've been
I've done two hms. You came into the room for them,
Like it's really nice to be back in there doing
that stuff and seeing what happens in the room and
(26:10):
you know, provoking teams and that. But what I am
noticing is how fucking stuffed I am after doing it.
Like if I thought to myself, I had to do
nine days out of ten like I did in November
last year, right now, I just say, I know I can't.
I can't do it. After the last one in Melbourne
(26:33):
a few weeks back, we went out to play golf
the next day and Alison's like, you are right, and
I go, nah, I said, I'm swinging about I'm swinging
about a third of the speed and pair I usually do.
And we walked off after six holes and she goes,
you look pale, and I'm like, I just feel really
fucking drained. And I think that's part of the that
(26:54):
this recovery piece I talked about before is, you know,
will I get back to whatever that thing was I
hope when I get back to whatever it is, it's like,
it's with the realization that self worth, of all those
other roles that I play, is actually somewhere closer to
level to the self worth that I've been driving for
(27:15):
eleven years out of being the dude.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
You know when you it's so rewarding to give and
do the things that you do, so rewarding. To give
people the opportunity to change, to make changes in the
work you do is so rewarding. But it and it
fills your cup in a way, it fills your cup,
but also under the surface, it's in our subconscious mind.
(27:42):
It's it's conditional. That's not unconditional. That's not unconditional relationship
that exists for you. So yes, you get all of
this great sense of I'm helping people, I'm of value,
I'm worth something, but it's because of doing, it's not
because of who you are. And there's a part of
our brain that go that's in there going yeah, but yeah,
(28:05):
and we don't hear it until we've exhausted. You know,
there's been times different times in my life where I've
where I've been felt exhausted and been like, oh, there's
no one in my life feel really lonely, disconnected. Look
on my phone. I'm like, if you've had you've literally
interacted with twenty people today, like just messages or clients
or do you know the back and forth. But I
(28:26):
feel like I've been, Oh, I feel like totally isolated.
And it's that it's that sense of yeah, there's you're
giving all of the time.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yep, yep, and that's you know, when you when you're
doing that for nine days out of ten and people
are like, well, that gets your fucking job, mate, and
it sort of is and what it is, But that's
just that's it's lovely that you're giving and all that stuff,
but you're going to fill your tank back up. And
I think that's part of the challenges. My tank was
(28:57):
fucking was empty and I was I think I was
pushing the fucking card to the petrol station by the
end of last year.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
It's been interesting though, because we're like, we're we're doing
this thing. Allison came across this thing called how to
build Nepik retirement. This lady, I forget her name now
I think I've got it here. It is by the
late name Beck Wilson and she's been doing it, and
there's this book and then she sent me the she
sent me the thing to fill out, which is quite extensive.
(29:26):
And so I've been doing a lot of work now
on looking at that, and there's a big piece in
there around you know purpose. I don't think I think
retirement for me will be an interesting thing in itself.
I think it will be as long as I'm cognitively okay.
It might be that I'm doing fifteen percent of what
I'm doing today because I still want to be doing
that in some way. But it then starts to get
(29:47):
you look at, well, how do you take that into
other areas? And the big things that came up for
me were and you'll relate to this because you name
me well enough, talking at schools to kids about leadership.
This is like pro bono. This isn't this is me
going back into the community. It's like talking to blokes
about talking about shit, and you know, maybe doing a
(30:10):
bit of pro bono mentoring for people who won't get
that sort of stuff. So I'm also thinking now about
I don't necessarily have to fucking monetize this stuff, because
there's a bit of the identity that comes with what
goes into the bank balance as well. There's no doubt
about that. So I think it's been a bit of
(30:32):
a fucking perfect storm, to be quite honest. It's like
heading towards whatever retirement means, you burnt yourself out. I
think the market has slowed a bit too, so and
one of the things for us is something we very
rarely got. We started getting a bit and we get
a few knockbacks last earlier this year, and so it's
a bit like fuck. So I think there was And
(30:56):
I also said this to Allison. I actually think it's
just like it's a point in time where you go,
this had to happen to you, mate, So.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
A part of you that can't reckon. There's a part
of you that recognized your biggest year ever and a
part of you that felt that it had to beat that,
but you realized you were so bloody exhausted you didn't
want to and there was a push pull there.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yes, yes, I was conflicted by that in a big
way because what I knew to myself, like my corporate
brain sort of disappeared now, but every now and again
it pops out and goes, well, you better be three
percent more than this this next year. But I actually
don't think that's an issue now. But you know that,
(31:44):
I think that was part of the perfect storm, Like
are you going to be happy Mark that you might
do sixty percent of what you did last year because
that's what you want to do now? Or how often
is that little cognitive thing going to come in and go, well, mate,
you know that's not enough and you're not gonna be
able to do this. And that's not the case. But
(32:04):
there was definitely a conflict there in that, and you
double that down on four or five decent proposals we
put in that we didn't win, and then I'm sitting
there now going, thank fuck, we didn't win them.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Sometimes the world looks after us like that.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Well I think it, well, it does. But you know again,
I'm fifty eight and I keep saying this too. This
is a this is a six month i'll call it
that now, we call it nearly a twelve month period
from when I ignored it to them, when I like five
months to accept it. That's twelve months in like fifty
(32:38):
eight years. So I also look at things on a
timeline and go, this is a very short period of time,
but because of what I've done to myself at Elkosi
feels like a fucking eternity. Like you said before, like
you get to yourself to that point where you're like
like fuck, like everything's everything's fucking bad news, things in
(33:00):
your bad news filing cabinet in your head, and then
your little un invited guests turn up every day going
where you fucking lost another job or you're not going
to get this. Oh you're burning out, clapping its hands going,
fucking told you, mate. And then on top of that,
you're the bloke who tells everyone not to do that.
I'm conscious of you're tying.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I know it's killing me. Oh We've only got a
couple of minutes, and I'm so sad because this. I
don't want to stop this conversation. Now finally go.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
We can keep we can keep it going. We'll just
keep it going. Next time you see me, I might
have a like a proper buzz cut, so you might
have to tell people that it's a continuation.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Continuation doesn't look quite the same boat, but it is his.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Hairs falling out because of his because he's fucking burnt out.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, well I want to pick Yeah, I want to
pick it up again. I want to talk more about it.
What's for now? What are you doing right now?
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Right? I'm going to get off here now and the
choice I had, I'm going to see now. I'm going
to see Oasis in November. I'm actually bought tickets to
go twice, and I'm going to pick up one of
my guitars off the wall like I did a bit
earlier today and just poorly play some of their songs.
But and see this is some of the quickly. These
(34:14):
are things I weren't doing for five months. Those guitars
didn't move off the wall.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Maybe we can pick up and talk about what are
the little science people should be looking for if they
did what I didn't and denied and ignored it. But mate,
it is so good to chat. You go and do
your harp sing.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Good to see your face mate next week, to miss
You've got no idea. I just wanted to badge you
all the time. I'm like, I'm just going to leave
him alone, obviously having some time, but it's been killing me.
So thank you. Thanks for dropping in on a bloody
whim today when I gave you a nudge and let's
talk pleasure. Go well, big love Bye B. She said,
(35:00):
it's now never.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
I got fighting in my.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Blood, Gotta to your body coast, Got a true little cat,
Gotta te modocst. Got it,
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.
Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is role with the punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in
(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
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reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Michaelbusk, what a treat?
(00:54):
This is what an unexpected treat. Here you are just
out of nowhere turning up. You've been out. I don't
know where you've been. Where have you been?
Speaker 1 (01:03):
I disappeared up me own't asked for a while. I reckon,
but I don't know. I've been been around, but we
haven't spoken for a while, so who knows what might
happen to here.
Speaker 2 (01:14):
It's made for a tough year because it is. We're
almost the tail end of September and I reckon. I've
only had two pods with you this year, and you
were quite a regular last year and then you just disappeared. Actually,
you had a lot of impact on my life late
last year and then you just disappeared.
Speaker 3 (01:34):
Wow. Wait, is that kind of your dog's barking?
Speaker 2 (01:36):
Yeah?
Speaker 3 (01:39):
I thought it was my dogs, but they're not.
Speaker 2 (01:40):
But it was upset too, Luna's upset too. Did he
go tell him? Tell him for me?
Speaker 3 (01:47):
Oh jesus, I don't know where did he go?
Speaker 1 (01:50):
He disappeared, Like even for myself. I haven't done a
podcast since I was just sending a potty to a
group today, Can you be too human in the workplace?
And that was record a long time ago. But my
last podcast I did of my own would have been
August September last year. Then I think I did one
with you later in the year that came out and
(02:12):
I think I was heading off to Shri Lanka at
the time. That was November, so yeah, well we it's like, yeah,
I just disappeared.
Speaker 2 (02:22):
How has life changed? Has life changed? Have you changed changed?
I know, where's the surfing dude?
Speaker 3 (02:30):
Oh no?
Speaker 1 (02:31):
I nearly buzz cut about a week and a half ago,
and the guy said, they may not be ready for
that yet, but just worked your way to it. So
it'll be interesting when I go into the room and
we get people to judge me.
Speaker 3 (02:46):
With the difference in the look.
Speaker 1 (02:47):
So yeah, it'll be I think people, I don't want
to look corporate, so I thought it'd go really short,
and then they'll think you're a bit of a fucking
psycho again, like they did when I had my buzz
cut before. They used to to me, you know, what
part of the defense force were you in? And then
member hair was long. It's like, where do you go surfing?
(03:07):
Isn't it really funny that it's sort of the same
person in some respects, but just different on the outside,
and all of a sudden people look at you in
a very different way.
Speaker 2 (03:16):
How big of impact does that have on how you interact,
how you feel yourself interacting because you bounce off the
energy of the people's like, people make an assumption and
have a perception of you, and then you step in,
you start interacting and you ride off the energy of people.
Does that change for.
Speaker 1 (03:36):
You with the change of appearance. Yeah, Oh, it's not really.
It's just that when they walk into the room, they
sort of look at me a bit funny because there
was sort of a bit clean cut Mark before COVID
and then and then they would see me in the
room and they I wasn't all that quick on updating
(04:00):
my shots on LinkedIn or on my website. So if
you go there now, out to my website, you'll be like,
who the fuck is Tiff talking to It sounds like him,
but it doesn't look like him because on there, I'm
right fall into that the hair was the hair was
running beautifully at that point in time, flowing. But no, look,
(04:22):
I sort of had this view that I keep saying
to people that when you're on a witness protection scheme,
you've got to continue to change your appearance just in case.
So and I have a bit of a laugh about that.
But now, look, I don't think it's I don't think
it changes much about the energy. You know, you've seen
the photo from twenty fourteen, when I first started doing
(04:44):
the work, when I was very corporate. But I don't know,
I still turn up as Mark. I just like that
there are different answers now that come out to the
judgment questions because you know, I'm starting to look more
like a fifty eight year old blow who is receding
in the hairline somewhat.
Speaker 2 (05:08):
If this year had a theme to it, what's this
year's theme?
Speaker 3 (05:11):
Burnout?
Speaker 2 (05:13):
No tell us about that.
Speaker 1 (05:17):
So we were talking late last year, and I remember
I listened to that potty when we were in the
bus driving around Sri Lanka and it was a bit
like I'm feeling a bit naked at the moment. I
feel a bit jaded. And then I did nothing about it.
So what we do, as you know, in the work,
I do adaptive challenges. You can either deny or ignore them.
Speaker 3 (05:41):
I did both, and I reckon.
Speaker 1 (05:46):
I finished working about late November, and I remember being
on a bit of a It was a bit like,
you know, it's a bit like being on tour at
that stage.
Speaker 3 (05:59):
I think. I think there was a very very very.
Speaker 1 (06:03):
Very full year of travel and delivery and all that
sort of stuff, which I still enjoyed, but I noticed
a cup little things creeping in around habits and I
reckon those last ten days and I can sort of
see it from what was it.
Speaker 3 (06:23):
It was the second last in the last week in November.
Speaker 1 (06:25):
So I remember I had a we tried to fit
in starting a new client and fitting it in so
I reckon. I woke up on one morning in the
Hunter Valley, I work up the next morning in Brisbane.
I work up the next morning in Mackay, and I
woke up the following morning in Townsville and the towns
(06:46):
will run was going to be out of working days.
I think it was nine days of facilitation out of
ten working days to kick a probe off. And I
remember getting to the end of it and jumping on
a plane back to Melbourne on the Friday to then
fly out to stri Lanka on the Saturday. And that
(07:07):
was the time that I should have I thought, think
I did take notice a bit of it. I decided
not to go back to work till about February, and
then I think I was a bit like I can't
be fucked as in not so much of the work,
but it was like the big thing for me. I'm
(07:29):
pretty ocd with with my my yard and my garden
and like Saturdays, it's not a big garden. I can
get get it done pretty quick. But I reckon for
about six weeks. I was like, elgat and do that,
and then I wouldn't go out and do it. And
then I was like, I'm going to go out and
do some cardio, and then I didn't go and do cardio.
And I remember because I have a holistic coach, Lauren
(07:52):
Miller up in the Hunter Valley.
Speaker 3 (07:53):
He's very good.
Speaker 1 (07:55):
I hadn't spoken to Hersin's about September either, and I
just a message and I said, we need to have
a chat because fucking something right there. And so I
sort of walked her through it, and I told her
the things I just told you and your listeners and
she goes, you burn out, mate, I'm like, okay. So
(08:15):
so we've been working through that now for the best
part of four months, four or five months, and and
so there's been little things and you know, I didn't
I didn't understand it too much. But she said, you know,
you're a Dreamal was a fucked That's one of the
reasons why you're not doing much cardio at the moment,
because you just you just don't feel like it. You
(08:38):
can go and do it, but you you know, you'll
be forcing yourself. And I kept up with my strength stuff,
which I think was important. But yeah, I just felt
a bit bit yuck, and you know, and I'm working
my way out of it in a very deliberate way.
It's not like, you know, some people said, just just
(08:59):
get into it, and for me, it's like I'm still
in the room doing the things that the workload is
nowhere near what it was. Very deliberately cut that workload
back and a lot of work, a lot less traveling,
a lot more work being done here, virtually, a lot
of wonder one coaching, and some virtual programs in my
(09:22):
him made the Human Manager Academy, the online piece. But
that's been really good because there are some days when
I just can't be fucked. So, yeah, that's where'd I've paid.
I'm navigating my way through it with a longer term
plan to say that regardless of whether you think you've
(09:45):
whether you think you're cured, and I don't think I'll
ever be cured, that you're not going back to doing
what you're doing in twenty twenty four. So and that's
been tough too, because we've made a decision to say,
you know what, we're not looking to grow this business anymore.
If anything, we're looking to scale it back for the
next four years until you know whether it's some form
(10:06):
of retirement at six mid early sixties.
Speaker 3 (10:10):
So yeah, lots of lots of reflection.
Speaker 1 (10:14):
I'm doing a piece of work at the moment with Lauren,
which is very much about you need to you need
to write down.
Speaker 3 (10:23):
She's pretty brutal. She's like, you all.
Speaker 1 (10:25):
Your self worth on most of your self worth has
come out of your work, and now that you're not
working as much, you're struggling to find where that self works.
So I've got to do this activity at the moment,
which is self worth in as mark the worker and
the partner and the parent and the friend and the
(10:47):
dude who likes to do his own thing. So I'm
doing that work at the minute, and it's really interesting, Tiff,
because she's absolutely right. It's been a struggle to fill
in four or five of those columns because I have
been so caught up in you know, the dude who
goes out and helps other people.
Speaker 2 (11:11):
When you're in the middle of that, in the middle
of burnout and you're in the middle of your own
life and your own life is your own business, and
you're like, there's no escape from lubusque hate Q. So
talk us through what it's, what you've learned or what's helpful,
like how do you switch off? Because I'm kind of
(11:35):
like I'm similar by way of it's hard to it's
hard to realize when you're in it, when you're burning
yourself out until you're burned out, and then it's hard
to maintain perspective. Like it's very easy to go, all right,
I'm going to do this, I'm going to have a rest,
but then we're not really resting. We're thinking about other
stuff all of the time. And I'll have a day
(11:55):
off and you know, like, yeah, what's that been like practically.
Speaker 3 (12:02):
Jeez.
Speaker 1 (12:03):
So if I reflect on those last three or four months,
the first thing, the first thing I did, which.
Speaker 3 (12:13):
Is really weird.
Speaker 1 (12:16):
Once I had the diagnosis of it, I went back
to a few of my clients and said, did you
notice anything different in the room?
Speaker 3 (12:21):
And they're like.
Speaker 1 (12:21):
Nah, And I said, so it's basically performance.
Speaker 3 (12:26):
But it was very performative. But I think I've gone
past it.
Speaker 1 (12:31):
Although some people did say to me when I told them,
they're like, yeah, we were noticing that, and then they're like,
we're really sorry we didn't say something, And I go, well,
and these weren't people that I was working with. These
are actually just friends and acquaintances of mine.
Speaker 2 (12:45):
Ah, just.
Speaker 1 (12:50):
I think they noticed they'd noticed it, like a massive
build up of things. One of the things I noticed
was we weren't seeing your post much stuff. Usually you know,
you're here, you're there, you're everywhere, and you're putting stuff out.
And I just in the end, I was like, I
can't be fucked doing that. After a day, I'll go on,
you know, just fucking lay on the bed and go
(13:14):
to sleep and sort of do whatever I was going
to do. They have all this bloody shit going on
Premier QUARTERSOL, So I think that was part of it.
Like for me, I think that it's really funny because
it's it's still a bit it's still a bit cloudy
that stuff.
Speaker 3 (13:34):
I go, how have I shifted? What's the behavior? The
behavior has.
Speaker 1 (13:39):
Been to first of all, stop denying and avoiding it,
so just accept it that it is a thing, and
then accept that you're the guy that tells people not
to get there, so fucking how are you doing. So
there was a bit of shame in that, a bit
of and I know I've spoken about it to a
few people in programs I've been running.
Speaker 3 (14:01):
And they're like Jesus.
Speaker 1 (14:02):
But so I think there was the going from denying,
ignoring to them, going, well, this is it. This is
what it is, and and I'm happy to share that.
I think there's a bit of bit of healing comes
with that little things For me, the little behavior changes.
This is going to sound weird. Some days I'd be
I'd get up and I'll put this black T shirt
on because that's sort of my uniform in the room.
(14:24):
But I'd still have my pajama pants on and little
things Lauren, and then I might have a shina have
a share at eleven o'clock or midday or something like that.
Lauren was like, get up, do you have a share?
Have your showered for upg BTRPT, Go and do little things,
little behaviors. Have you showered, get yourself ready for work,
go into your office like you're working so but then
(14:47):
also have these little rest periods as well. So you know,
I look at my calendar compared to last year and
I'm like, fucking hell, Like it's Jesus, it's a really
quiet year. But it's that's a bity deliberate thing as well.
So I'm doing lots of little projects of work this
year rather than doing two or three really big ones.
(15:09):
Allison's been really cool, like she's on my back a
fair a bit, but in the right way, not nagging
about it, but just like just you be conscious of
getting caught back into the trap.
Speaker 3 (15:24):
I don't know.
Speaker 1 (15:25):
I don't. I don't if I don't think that, I
still don't think that. I'm when I say that there's
been some micro changes in behavior. There's some habits I
put in around a simple meditation off the car mapp
every morning, and I actually track myself on that to
make sure that like a five to ten minute just
start the day with that. Because when I was in
(15:47):
when I was right in the middle of burnout, what
was massive was my time on social media, as in
just fucking doom scrolling and reading the papers. And see,
one of the things Larren stopped me from doing is
reading the papers because she's like, that's going to make
you fucking angry.
Speaker 2 (16:05):
Oh so much bad news. I'm all for that get
rid of.
Speaker 3 (16:08):
So I've I think I've had a cutback on that
stuff a bit as well. But I don't know.
Speaker 1 (16:15):
I do have a view that I don't think that
I'll get cured of burnout. I actually think that it's
Lauren had said to me a few times that be
careful because you know you're not. You mightn't be feeling
it at the moment, but this is pre the diagnosis.
But you're not far from it. You're closer to it
(16:36):
than you might think you are. And one of the
reasons you don't think you are is because you're so
frigging busy and being caught up in the identity and
that was like a drug, so you know, addicted to.
Speaker 3 (16:49):
Being the guy in the room.
Speaker 1 (16:51):
So I just think, I don't ever think I'm going
to be in a situation where I think that's not
going to happen to me again. So it's a regulating now,
I reckon. And part of regulation is accepting that it's
going to be it'll be less work and that, you know,
(17:14):
I'm still coming to terms with with that. We were saying,
let's have a you know, let's we had our biggest
year ever in activity and revenue and all that sort
of stuff, and it's like, we're going to have that
this year, and that's my little brain's going, We'll hang on,
you know, you should go hard again and do that again.
But yeah, I don't know, it's a bit it's still
(17:36):
foggy for me.
Speaker 3 (17:37):
I reckon.
Speaker 2 (17:39):
Tell me more about you don't think you can cure it?
Speaker 3 (17:47):
Well, I don't know. I think it's.
Speaker 1 (17:51):
I don't know what sort of what, what sort of
analogy metaphor whatever to use. But like for me, like
for instance, to me as a as someone who like
I get it's it's it's hay fever time, right, so
I get our hey fever bad and it's like it's
starting up and whether hey fever's a good thing to
(18:11):
use or you know. I get irritated by things like
dust and I remember cleaning out my woodshed one time
and breaking it in fucking hives all over me, and
the doctor was like, mate, that stuff's already in you,
but it's just it'll distill, tip it over the edge
again by you going and doing activity that that really
triggers it. And I think that's the same with the
(18:32):
with the burnout. I don't I don't get I don't
get a sense I'm going to get to a point
where I'll go that's not going to happen to me again.
I reckon there'll be a level, and the level of
the level might be thirty five percent or might be
fifty percent. At the moment, I think it's more like eighty.
So you know, it wouldn't take a lot for me
to go back to that position that I've felt for
(18:52):
the last eight months or so. So I guess for me,
it's a bit of a whether it's a it could
be an excuse as well, but it's.
Speaker 3 (19:00):
A bit of a story of.
Speaker 1 (19:03):
Or a reminder to say, if you think that you're
going really well now, don't be confused by that and
start running around like a fucking mad man again. Understand
that running around like a madman again for the next
three months might actually send you back to where you were.
Speaker 2 (19:19):
Is it about do you reckon burnout? It's about doing
too much? Or about the neglect the not enough that
comes at the cost of that.
Speaker 1 (19:31):
I think it's both. And if I know, and I
can easily look back through my habit changes last year.
So start of last year, start of the run, let's
call the run went from about March through to November
like crazy, crazy stuff. And in March, when I was
(19:51):
I think I was doing pretty well, I'd work with
a guy who was keeping an eye on lifestyle choices
around eating and drinking and getting to the gym. And
you know, if I think about when I went into
Mackay for about three months off and on. I'd got
myself a membership at the fitness first up there and
(20:15):
was going there every morning at five o'clock, and then
I'd pop around to the coffee shop. I have a
coffee with these old blocks i'd met, go off and
do my work, maybe go for a walk that night.
Speaker 3 (20:25):
Order in.
Speaker 1 (20:26):
I'd had a self contained apartment, order in from the woolies,
an order for the week or two weeks whatever I
was there and be cooking in my room. So you know,
that was happening for about the first four months or so,
and then it started to be a bit less of that,
and it was a bit easy to go to the
local restaurants because there's plenty of them there, and I'd
(20:47):
still going to the gym, but.
Speaker 3 (20:49):
Maybe I wouldn't go for that.
Speaker 1 (20:51):
Walk as well, because I felt a bit tight after
the program, and I think it was more of a
It was this gradual thing, so I think there's a
combination of both. It was too much of one thing
and too much of one thing, which apparently brought me joy,
but it was really fucking filling my ego up.
Speaker 3 (21:10):
Really.
Speaker 1 (21:10):
What that then did was go well, you're getting too
much of that, so you're going to have to lose
something somewhere. And where I lost it was in the
the more, you know, the habits that I created, which
which were actually helping me to do the work. So
as you know, I remember, I remember the last week
in Townsville and I was staying at a place and
(21:32):
right beliefs, the place was a fucking basket and robins
and you know what I'm like with ice cream and
shit like that. So it was like, go across the road,
grab yourself a grab yourself a countery somewhere. I have
a couple of beers, and on the way back, just
sneak into the basket and robins, get yourself a little
mini pack, and then gartinate it watching the TV.
Speaker 3 (21:52):
So that's that. That were the changes.
Speaker 1 (21:56):
So to your point, I think what I'm trying to
say is I'm gradually I'm gradually easing myself back into
the other stuff as well, because the feedback has been
because you're.
Speaker 3 (22:11):
An all or one guy, you'll try and go too
hard and blow up on the good stuff.
Speaker 1 (22:18):
So yeah, it's it's really funny because I I liked
I Usually I don't mind sitting with ambiguity on a
lot of stuff, but sitting with this, going I know
to fix this, I know what to do. But then
that's not what you've got to do. You've got to
sit with you know, if it says if I got
(22:38):
like this, if my mind or my body's telling me no,
I used to ignore that, but now I'm like, okay.
Speaker 2 (22:45):
No, listening. You made an interesting point before, and I
remember talking about it and thinking about it a lot
last year, the idea that, and I'm thinking about it
because I was doing a bit of before and thinking
about exactly this, like the neurochemistry around our final flight state, right,
(23:11):
which is for fear, anxiety, and excitement, very similar chemical cocktail. Right,
So if you're just getting around excited, you know, And
for me, I had a year there where I when
I looked back at at this year, I went, yeah,
it's been a real tough year but also the most
really exciting year where I was just like so many
big exciting things happening, and you just go, well, that's
(23:34):
your nervous system. Like whether it's good fight or flight,
excitement or terror, your nervous system is getting fired constantly,
and that's exhausting, right, that's the sympathetic nervous system, and
that comes at a cost, and I think we we
forget that, and we forget that it's happening when we
(23:55):
look at our phones. It's happening when the news plays
their shitty undertones of music with their fucking click baity
titles and words that catastrophize everything, Like, oh my god,
we're so at odds with everything right now. I took
Facebook off my phone because I am such a binger
of social media. I'm sick of it. Do it on
(24:15):
my phone and I feel differently, I feel better not
having it.
Speaker 1 (24:22):
Yeah, I think I'll be the same as that like it,
just to really reduce that time I didn't have. I've
been at Facebook for about four years because I just
got sick of all the shit going on in the
polarization during COVID. So I just, you know, I think,
as I understand, my instrument feed into that. But I'm
very fucking rarely in there because I just there's just
a lot of shit in here, and you know, I'm
(24:44):
very much into debate and discourse and all that sort
of stuff. But you know, we can see what happens
when someone doesn't like someone else's idea. We saw that
three or four weeks ago, didn't we mate, So you
know you've got to I think you've got to stay
away from that stuff, mind you. You know, I'm sort
of like, fuck twenty five, let's just get twenty five done.
But at the same time, Zoie got married in March,
(25:06):
which was amazing. It was really cool, like, you know,
every night and then again I say to Allison, this
just wish his ear had finished, and she's like, weigh on.
Zoe got married. We had a nice little holiday over
to the Greek Islands and that was a lot of fun.
And and then you know, in nine weeks time, because
that's where Zoey and them are today, it's Sooe's baby show. Today,
(25:27):
you know, I'll be your grandfather and all things going
well in about eight weeks time. It's like, there's lots
of joy still in here. But the thing that I've
worked out is when you are so fucking caught up
in your worth as Mark Labus dot com and not
as much as Mark Lebusk, the dad and the partner
and you know, the soon to be grandfather, is that
(25:48):
you don't there's no joy coming from that yet. Yeah,
So yeah, it's it's but if you guys still feel
a level of flatness, I still you know, I've been
in the room in the last four weeks. I've been
I've done two hms. You came into the room for them,
Like it's really nice to be back in there doing
that stuff and seeing what happens in the room and
(26:10):
you know, provoking teams and that. But what I am
noticing is how fucking stuffed I am after doing it.
Like if I thought to myself, I had to do
nine days out of ten like I did in November
last year, right now, I just say, I know I can't.
I can't do it. After the last one in Melbourne
(26:33):
a few weeks back, we went out to play golf
the next day and Alison's like, you are right, and
I go, nah, I said, I'm swinging about I'm swinging
about a third of the speed and pair I usually do.
And we walked off after six holes and she goes,
you look pale, and I'm like, I just feel really
fucking drained. And I think that's part of the that
(26:54):
this recovery piece I talked about before is, you know,
will I get back to whatever that thing was I
hope when I get back to whatever it is, it's like,
it's with the realization that self worth, of all those
other roles that I play, is actually somewhere closer to
level to the self worth that I've been driving for
(27:15):
eleven years out of being the dude.
Speaker 2 (27:18):
You know when you it's so rewarding to give and
do the things that you do, so rewarding. To give
people the opportunity to change, to make changes in the
work you do is so rewarding. But it and it
fills your cup in a way, it fills your cup,
but also under the surface, it's in our subconscious mind.
(27:42):
It's it's conditional. That's not unconditional. That's not unconditional relationship
that exists for you. So yes, you get all of
this great sense of I'm helping people, I'm of value,
I'm worth something, but it's because of doing, it's not
because of who you are. And there's a part of
our brain that go that's in there going yeah, but yeah,
(28:05):
and we don't hear it until we've exhausted. You know,
there's been times different times in my life where I've
where I've been felt exhausted and been like, oh, there's
no one in my life feel really lonely, disconnected. Look
on my phone. I'm like, if you've had you've literally
interacted with twenty people today, like just messages or clients
or do you know the back and forth. But I
(28:26):
feel like I've been, Oh, I feel like totally isolated.
And it's that it's that sense of yeah, there's you're
giving all of the time.
Speaker 1 (28:35):
Yep, yep, and that's you know, when you when you're
doing that for nine days out of ten and people
are like, well, that gets your fucking job, mate, and
it sort of is and what it is, But that's
just that's it's lovely that you're giving and all that stuff,
but you're going to fill your tank back up. And
I think that's part of the challenges. My tank was
(28:57):
fucking was empty and I was I think I was
pushing the fucking card to the petrol station by the
end of last year.
Speaker 3 (29:03):
Let me tell you.
Speaker 1 (29:04):
It's been interesting though, because we're like, we're we're doing
this thing. Allison came across this thing called how to
build Nepik retirement. This lady, I forget her name now
I think I've got it here. It is by the
late name Beck Wilson and she's been doing it, and
there's this book and then she sent me the she
sent me the thing to fill out, which is quite extensive.
(29:26):
And so I've been doing a lot of work now
on looking at that, and there's a big piece in
there around you know purpose. I don't think I think
retirement for me will be an interesting thing in itself.
I think it will be as long as I'm cognitively okay.
It might be that I'm doing fifteen percent of what
I'm doing today because I still want to be doing
that in some way. But it then starts to get
(29:47):
you look at, well, how do you take that into
other areas? And the big things that came up for
me were and you'll relate to this because you name
me well enough, talking at schools to kids about leadership.
This is like pro bono. This isn't this is me
going back into the community. It's like talking to blokes
about talking about shit, and you know, maybe doing a
(30:10):
bit of pro bono mentoring for people who won't get
that sort of stuff. So I'm also thinking now about
I don't necessarily have to fucking monetize this stuff, because
there's a bit of the identity that comes with what
goes into the bank balance as well. There's no doubt
about that. So I think it's been a bit of
(30:32):
a fucking perfect storm, to be quite honest. It's like
heading towards whatever retirement means, you burnt yourself out. I
think the market has slowed a bit too, so and
one of the things for us is something we very
rarely got. We started getting a bit and we get
a few knockbacks last earlier this year, and so it's
a bit like fuck. So I think there was And
(30:56):
I also said this to Allison. I actually think it's
just like it's a point in time where you go,
this had to happen to you, mate, So.
Speaker 2 (31:05):
A part of you that can't reckon. There's a part
of you that recognized your biggest year ever and a
part of you that felt that it had to beat that,
but you realized you were so bloody exhausted you didn't
want to and there was a push pull there.
Speaker 1 (31:21):
Yes, yes, I was conflicted by that in a big
way because what I knew to myself, like my corporate
brain sort of disappeared now, but every now and again
it pops out and goes, well, you better be three
percent more than this this next year. But I actually
don't think that's an issue now. But you know that,
(31:44):
I think that was part of the perfect storm, Like
are you going to be happy Mark that you might
do sixty percent of what you did last year because
that's what you want to do now? Or how often
is that little cognitive thing going to come in and go, well, mate,
you know that's not enough and you're not gonna be
able to do this. And that's not the case. But
(32:04):
there was definitely a conflict there in that, and you
double that down on four or five decent proposals we
put in that we didn't win, and then I'm sitting
there now going, thank fuck, we didn't win them.
Speaker 2 (32:15):
Sometimes the world looks after us like that.
Speaker 1 (32:18):
Well I think it, well, it does. But you know again,
I'm fifty eight and I keep saying this too. This
is a this is a six month i'll call it
that now, we call it nearly a twelve month period
from when I ignored it to them, when I like five
months to accept it. That's twelve months in like fifty
(32:38):
eight years. So I also look at things on a
timeline and go, this is a very short period of time,
but because of what I've done to myself at Elkosi
feels like a fucking eternity. Like you said before, like
you get to yourself to that point where you're like
like fuck, like everything's everything's fucking bad news, things in
(33:00):
your bad news filing cabinet in your head, and then
your little un invited guests turn up every day going
where you fucking lost another job or you're not going
to get this. Oh you're burning out, clapping its hands going,
fucking told you, mate. And then on top of that,
you're the bloke who tells everyone not to do that.
I'm conscious of you're tying.
Speaker 2 (33:21):
I know it's killing me. Oh We've only got a
couple of minutes, and I'm so sad because this. I
don't want to stop this conversation. Now finally go.
Speaker 1 (33:29):
We can keep we can keep it going. We'll just
keep it going. Next time you see me, I might
have a like a proper buzz cut, so you might
have to tell people that it's a continuation.
Speaker 2 (33:39):
Continuation doesn't look quite the same boat, but it is his.
Speaker 1 (33:42):
Hairs falling out because of his because he's fucking burnt out.
Speaker 2 (33:45):
Yeah, well I want to pick Yeah, I want to
pick it up again. I want to talk more about it.
What's for now? What are you doing right now?
Speaker 1 (33:54):
Right? I'm going to get off here now and the
choice I had, I'm going to see now. I'm going
to see Oasis in November. I'm actually bought tickets to
go twice, and I'm going to pick up one of
my guitars off the wall like I did a bit
earlier today and just poorly play some of their songs.
But and see this is some of the quickly. These
(34:14):
are things I weren't doing for five months. Those guitars
didn't move off the wall.
Speaker 2 (34:18):
Yeah, yeah, so yeah.
Speaker 1 (34:20):
Maybe we can pick up and talk about what are
the little science people should be looking for if they
did what I didn't and denied and ignored it. But mate,
it is so good to chat. You go and do
your harp sing.
Speaker 2 (34:32):
Good to see your face mate next week, to miss
You've got no idea. I just wanted to badge you
all the time. I'm like, I'm just going to leave
him alone, obviously having some time, but it's been killing me.
So thank you. Thanks for dropping in on a bloody
whim today when I gave you a nudge and let's
talk pleasure. Go well, big love Bye B. She said,
(35:00):
it's now never.
Speaker 3 (35:03):
I got fighting in my.
Speaker 1 (35:05):
Blood, Gotta to your body coast, Got a true little cat,
Gotta te modocst. Got it,
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