CANCELLED. BLAMED. GAGGED.... And Winning Anyway | Jacqueline Brooker - 930

She's been cancelled, blamed, and gagged... but she still found her voice. Jacqueline Brooker shares her journey through trauma, toxicity, and triumph.

Jacqueline talks about the highs and lows of her career, from putting on events with A-list celebrities to having the headlines turn against her overnight. She opens up about being publicly blamed for a loved one's death, having her business put into receivership, and being slapped with global gag orders.

Despite the trauma, Jacqueline persevered and rediscovered her purpose in empowering others to find their voice. She reflects on the lessons learned, the personal growth, and the ability to hold space for people that emerged from those painful experiences.

You don't wanna miss this incredible episode with this incredible human!

SPONSORED BY TESTART FAMILY LAWYERS

Website: testartfamilylawyers.com.au

JACQUELINE BROOKER

Website: anygiventuesday.com.au

TIFFANEE COOK

Linktree: linktr.ee/rollwiththepunches/

Website: tiffcook.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/tiffaneecook/

Facebook: facebook.com/rollwiththepunchespodcast/

Instagram: instagram.com/rollwiththepunches_podcast/

Instagram: instagram.com/tiffaneeandco

 

See omnystudio.com/listener for privacy information.

Episode Transcript

Speaker 1 (00:01):
She said, it's now never I got fighting in my blood.

Speaker 2 (00:09):
I'm tiff. This is roll with the punches and we're
turning life's hardest hits into wins. Nobody wants to go
to court, and don't. My friends are test Art Family Lawyers.
Know that they offer all forms of alternative dispute resolution.
Their team of Melbourne family lawyers have extensive experience in

(00:29):
all areas of family law to facto and same sex couples,
custody and children, family violence and intervention orders, property settlements
and financial agreements. Test Art is in your corner, so
reach out to Mark and the team at www dot
test Artfamilylawyers dot com dot au. Jacqueline Brooker Brooker nearly

(00:53):
said Booker. Then Jacqueline Brooker, welcome to roll with the punches.

Speaker 1 (01:00):
I think you were so good to be here. It'd
be even better when you get my name right.

Speaker 2 (01:03):
Yeah, geez, we have to. I have to roll with
the punches the minute we're out the gates. That's just
how it is.

Speaker 1 (01:08):
Yeah, yeah, I kind of. I'm expecting no less. So
let's go.

Speaker 2 (01:12):
Well, I've been I've been uttering your name a little
bit in a few episodes lately, and you have been
saying some good things, and I haven't always been saying
some good things.

Speaker 1 (01:22):
So no, you kind of swear at me a lot.

Speaker 2 (01:24):
Yeah, I have to what's hard all the things you
make me do. I was doing some brainstorming around content
yesterday and I was just, you know, throwing thoughts around,
and I was writing. I was thinking about the learning process,
and I was and I was writing or maybe I
recorded some I don't know. That's how quickly I forget,

(01:47):
but I was unpacking that idea of how much I
love learning until learning rubs up against our comfort zone
and then I have to unlearn and and maybe unlearned
things that I've really held onto. And it's became a
bit of an identity piece, like, oh, this is me,

(02:08):
this is the way I do things, and this is me,
and I'm really comfortable at it and I'm really good
at that. And now I'm going to go and learn this.
And now I know I've said all that.

Speaker 1 (02:18):
Yes you suck, Yes, yeah, but I suck in the
best possible way, don't I Like.

Speaker 2 (02:29):
Before I dig into questions that I want to, probably.

Speaker 1 (02:31):
Should explain to people that don't know what we're talking.

Speaker 2 (02:34):
You are, so can you give us an introduction.

Speaker 1 (02:38):
Well, I am Tiffany's most hated coach. So now I'm
Jacqueline Brooker, and I am a Certaphone Speaking Professional, which
is a global designation. How by fourteen percent of professional
speakers in the world can't buy it. You have to
earn it, literally have to earn it with dollars. But

(02:59):
I also so I'm I guess the official title is
I'm a speaking coach and a speaker trainer, But what
I'm actually is obsessed with the spoken word and how
that changes the future for people. And I just happen
to have found a way to do that my every day.

Speaker 2 (03:15):
I love it. I love it, and you're very, very
good at what you do. And I wanted to talk
to you about a lot of this stuff today because,
and I'll be quite frank, I wasn't an easy person
for you to win over like I wasn't, But also
I was.

Speaker 1 (03:32):
A little skeptical, a lot skeptical.

Speaker 2 (03:35):
And probably more than you even know. And it interests
me from a psychology point of view. And this is
why I love what you do, because I go I
am an an equals one experiment that the structure and
knowledge and training you have behind what you do and
what you're teaching us literally played out on me and

(03:56):
took me from stranger to laying down in my world.
Quite an investment to somebody who I knew. I wanted
some guidance in this area, but I also was just
wanting to call everyone that I came across a toss
that I didn't want to give my money to because

(04:17):
I didn't trust them, and I was like, how have
you done this at?

Speaker 1 (04:22):
So let's also let's also quantify as well. It's a
sizeable investment for anyone, right, And like some investment is relative,
but when it comes to investing in your speaking future,
it's a sizeable investment for anyone. And even those who
have highly disposal cash who invest, you know, at the

(04:42):
rate of hundreds of thousands of dollars in their personal development,
it's still a big thing. Because here's the thing. Most
people think learning how to speak well is an optional
extra and they can do that sometime most people don't
understand before getting into it and learning it properly, the
profound difference makes across all parts of your world, right,
and that's one of the things that we can't sell

(05:03):
in advance. We can't. We've not yet been able to
articulate the difference of the way that we teach and
train speaking what it makes to your everyday world right,
And so part of what it is as well is this.
And I think this might have been what you originally
responded to in my first ever sales call with you,

(05:23):
which was you put me through my paces, but it
is I have a total conviction that everyone is capable
of learning their skill. I also have a total regard
and respect for the investment, because it doesn't matter what
world you're in, it is expensive to invest in it.
And as you know, once you get into it, and

(05:44):
I know this is coming, you actually have to invest
your blood, sweat and tears. It's not just your money, right,
It's not just your time. It becomes your blood, sweat
and tears. Because for you to truly shine, I've got
to make sure that we're unpacking what's truly yours right,
and so I have to know that I can hold
you in a space to get you across that line.
It's not where I started this business. When I started

(06:05):
this business, I mean I would like I taught a
pest control. I had to be a motivational speaker, like
I really like it was like all in like I
remember the same room he was in. I had a
civil engineer who was really arrogant, and then at the
other end of the line, I had a Maori woman
who's a freaking sex and intimacy coach. Like it was
like all over the place. And a lot of the
people when they first came into my world when I

(06:25):
was first doing this, were just people wanted their name
up in lights. I want to be on a stage.
I've always wanted to be on a stage. It was
that time because there were the easy people to get
into spend. But now it does take time, and it
is big conversations because it is a big investment. And
I also know that I'm going to have to hold
you in spaces that you didn't even realize were coming.
So there is a lot of care and regard for

(06:47):
bringing people into my world.

Speaker 2 (06:50):
I've already noticed very recently just an absolute cascade of
appreciation and development in how how I think and then
articulate and offer my thoughts. My idea is my concepts,
and it's I've talked about that valley of despair a

(07:13):
lot in our in our groups, and it's so true, Like,
there you have. You've literally taken me from little miss optimism.
I know I've got something to say, and I know
how to say it to the darkest places of I'm
embarrassed that I've ever called myself a speaker. I'm embarrassed

(07:34):
that I've thought I have something to say. I've got
I've been oscillating in those places at times, which I
think is really healthy and good, But fucking hell, it's confronting.

Speaker 1 (07:44):
So fun, you know. And the thing is is that
and it is fucking confronting, right, And when we used to,
because we used to this whole process that you're doing,
we still do it. We used to do it in
a three day workshop and then send people out into
the world, right like kind of spin around the circles
and shoot them back out. And quite honestly, on the
second day, if people weren't didn't have something truly of

(08:06):
value to offer the world, they would break right, they
would opt out, they would walk out, they would some
one woman turned up in the fetal position in the
corner of the room, just unable to deal. And I
don't say that because I like to traumatize people. Don't
want to sound like that. But it's actually where you
have to go right. Like you say you want authentic connection,

(08:26):
then the first place you got to connect is yourself.
And we've got all this stuff about you know, this
is one of the things that absolutely really annoys me.
It's like in this industry, and I'll be honest, there's
been so many times, you know, a little bit of
my career background. I think so many times over last
nine years, I've literally screamed at God in the middle
of the night, take this thing off me. I don't
want to do it anymore. It's easier to be a
CEO and traffic control right than to do this right.

(08:49):
Let me go back to that world. And God won't.
He literally laughs at me, and whenever I say this
is not what I want, He's like, that's exactly where
you have to stay right. But it's because you know,
you have to people in this industry. Speaking and coaching
is kind of a toxic intersection, which is why you
came in with so much skepticism. Speaking number one is

(09:12):
like this murky place that people don't understand. Coaching is
full of interlopers. And Charlatan's right, and so the intersection
of speaking on coaching is really quite murky, which is
why you were quite skeptical. So one of the things
that I saw quite early was that there were all
these brokers and they're spookers. Follow me, I'll make you
an authentic speaker, and they get behind closed doors after

(09:35):
you pay your money, and it's like, I'll make you
an authentic speaker in my likeness. They don't know how
to show you how to connect to yourself first, how
to actually really unpack what it is that you know
to be true. And if you can't do their formula,
then you are not worthy, right, And so being an
authentic speaker is not about being like me. It's not
about being trained by me. It's about getting you to

(09:57):
connect to who you are and what you have to
bring to the world. And that's where the confronting bit
comes in, right, because most of us just go headline trending,
Google page one, that's my thing, right, there's and then
wonder why they can't break through. So everyone who comes
through our bigger programs they break through, right. But it's

(10:18):
because and one of the reason why we do longer
programs now is because I have to be able to
hold you.

Speaker 2 (10:23):
Don't you ever? Yeah, you ever.

Speaker 1 (10:28):
As part of the commitment. But you can't sell that
up front as well because it's like number one, it
would scare people. Number two, people don't understand that that
is going to become important.

Speaker 2 (10:41):
Yeah, I want to hear about a lot more about
your background and that big experience that you know I'm
referring to before I want to I want to share
with you and the listeners kind of my little journey
of learning about you and so on up the ground.
So I'd listened to your podcast. Someone had dropped it

(11:02):
in I think like minded bitch is drinking wine. Someone
said something about speaking and someone said, oh, listen to
this podcast. I was like, oh, right, I listened to
this podcast and I listened, and I was like, oh,
don't hate her, like her vibe, good information. I'm listening
to this. And then at some point you messaged me

(11:25):
and said, Yo, I've noticed you're in the Facebook group.
I'm doing a free bunch of workshops if you want
the link. I'm like, sure, she's not annoying me, she's
just asking if I want it, I'll say yes. So
I said yes, and then I had a long drive
after that and I listened back to the replays, and
I was like, oh, I really a lot of this

(11:46):
is landing. I think she's I think there's some stuff
that I can really learn. So we booked a chat.
I signed up. It was a bit of a bit
of WU will involve because I had just allocated Thursdays
as a work on your business not in your business day,
which I've worked seven days a week for more years
than you can know, which is embarrassing and terrible. But
fact also, when I asked you what days these our

(12:11):
coaching would be, it was thursdays, and I was like,
and I just got goosebumps and went, oh shit, no
way at is here? So I signed up. I had
it on buy now for a couple of days and
I was shitting myself and calling in on friends and goingck.

Speaker 1 (12:26):
Am I going to do this? I'm scared.

Speaker 2 (12:28):
I feel so alone in big decisions when I've got
big decisions, because no one in my life actually gives
a fuck about this really like it's there. It's easier
to say, oh, yeah, you're amazing, just do it. It's
like you have but it's not your money. And then
after purchasing, I was I was still like, anyway, who
is this who is this bitch? Like, yeah, a coach

(12:52):
to trying to find I'm like, where's she spoke? And
what does she do? What's her background? Is it? You know?
Am I being jibbed? What if I'm being jypped? And
I came across that big story of you because you
talk about it, and so then I searched it out.
I'm like, what does she mean canceled? What is all this?
And then as I was listening to that, I had
this really unsettled like have I if I made this

(13:17):
decision too early? What if? What if I know she's
talking about it, but what.

Speaker 1 (13:21):
If and what if she can't deliver exactly?

Speaker 2 (13:25):
And what if it's you know, like just what if
I'm just uneasy? What's true? What's not? What's fact? Very
quickly and maybe not quick enough for you, but in
no time and I'll let you talk in a minute.
We started the course, and then I think the clincher
for me was meeting you in person a couple of
weeks ago and being in the room where energy doesn't lie,

(13:47):
and I went all right, I like, not only am
I comfortable with you now, but I have so much
love and respect for the fact that you didn't walk
away from this career after what happened that my listeners
will soon hear about a bit from you. I have
so much for that, Like I'm proud and i'm and

(14:08):
I'm happy for women and it's like part of the
big story for me. Now I'm like, I'm so I'm
your biggest fan.

Speaker 1 (14:18):
So that's all the you know, and this is that's
all nothing much. It's also too I just want to
touch on something because as you know, it was quite
a journey to get into that live event that we
got to and we had to change things and that
sort of stuff. But I'm so glad that we persevered.
Because there's two events that we've done in the last
twelve months. So one was which you wouldn't have been at,

(14:38):
was in December, and then this one that we did
just recently, which was a conference, and most people have
walked away from that event understand the same thing as
you because energy doesn't lie. It was a really good space,
so we're really good people. There were people we'd not
met before who just got wrapped up as you know,
Like I mean I remember that one particular guy, like

(15:00):
the end of day one, he's like, this is a cult.
It's got to be a cold. I have no other
explanation for it, and I'm so suspicious, like what are
you doing to me? I don't even know how I
got here. And by the end of the day two,
it was like, I still think it's a cult, and
I still don't know what you're doing. But I'm all in, right.
But it wasn't all in because we'd sold anything, because
as you know, we like we didn't really sell anything.

(15:21):
He was all in because of the people in the
room and the atmosphere and the environment. And I think
during our COVID year, the pandemic, I call it the year,
the pandemic year, the COVID year, and I know it
was a few but like, who knows what time was
like then I think we forgot the power of bally
to ballet, eyd to eye hut to hut right. And

(15:42):
it's true. So when you come into my world through online,
which is most people these days, and into zoom, you
get a sense of that. But when we get in
person and we can actually eyeball each other, and then
you're meeting other people that I've spoken about before you
met them, and there was just this collective and I
think I forgot how powerful that collective spaces and so

(16:03):
all of you were spinning out of that room, going
I don't know what that was, but I want more
of it. And that's not because I want you locked in,
although I do joke that, you know, coming into my
world's a bit like Hotel California, like once you're in,
you can never escape. But the point is is that
it's because somebody said to me on the first night
of that event. It was two days in a night.

(16:24):
Someone said to me on the first night, so what's
the common thread here? Because I've met these people and
there doesn't see anything in common. What's the common thread?
And I realized watching everyone, including you, that the common
thread was I am here to serve. I am here,
I am values led, I am purpose driven. And it's

(16:45):
not about I want to make a dent in the universe,
because I want to make my dent in the universe.
It's like I want something to shift, that this is
a calling to something bigger than me. And that's the commonality,
and that's what you felt, so you know, so I
just wanted to start with that, and then where do
you want me to go?

Speaker 2 (17:02):
When did we talk about the cancel.

Speaker 1 (17:07):
Yeah, so being canceled is really fun. Yeah, not so.
And these are the headlines that still come up. And
this also doesn't help because people who are nervous about
investing then hit some of these headlines. Sometimes it's like, oh,
she's obviously a charlatan. So in twenty fifteen, I'll go
right back. In twenty fifteen, I was leaving. I had

(17:29):
a role as a CEO in traffic control. There was
changes to the infrastructure industry in Queensland, and the best
call I could make for my owner, for the shareholder
was to downsize the business and except myself. So we
went through a process of downsizing this business, of putting
a general manager in instead of a CEO, so like,
the business became a lot smaller. And in that period
of time, I was in my early forties, divorced, kids

(17:55):
had moved back to my ex husband's house, and I
was like, what am I to do with my life?
And I grew up right, no, you know, like I
literally can make that choice after raising children and being
part of somebody else's identity, I could literally And so
I realized that I wanted to because I'd always been
a male, dominate industries, so marning, services, industry relations, manufacturing,

(18:18):
light industry, labor high like all. I never had a
problem being a woman in those industries, but in traffic control,
even being in C suite, Oh my god, was I
aware that I was a woman. I remember walking in
the first association meeting and I was the only female
leader in the room, full stop right. There was a

(18:40):
couple of others sorry, but they were like hr right
and definitely not six sweet. So I was really confronting
and they were really really misogynistic. Like all of a sudden,
I was like, oh, that's that wall they're talking about, right,
And so I came out of that job going Okay,
I've never had a problem with it before. I know
how to communicate. I want something that actually and this

(19:00):
is twenty fifteen, I want something that will actually get
women to believe that they have the right to you know.
And our tagline was creating a world of brave and
ambitious women, right. And so I put together because I'd
done big networking events, I'd done conferences, I'd done seminars
like in parties of my Roles and that sort of stuff,
especially in Central Queensland. So I put together this one

(19:22):
day event that was going to have a keynote speaker
from overseas and we could just con run it on
the Gold Coast and we were going to it was
going to be all about empowering women and how do
you communicate and how do you be confident and how
do you do all of these things that actually get
your career spaces. With that keynote speaker, we were just
about to launch. So this is the one of the

(19:43):
thing we're just about to launch in late twenty fifteen,
and she suddenly pulled out no explanation, and then about
five or six weeks later found out she was pregnant
their third baby and the baby was due when the
conference was going to be. So I just said, oh, okay,
that was a nice run okay in it. So I
rang all of the people involved, particularly the people who
are going to be on the program the speakers, and

(20:04):
the speakers were like, no, no, Jack, you don't understand.
We need this, like you just need to find a
different way to deliver it. And I was like, no, shit,
that's interesting, like literally, like you know, it's so attached
to it. And then I couldn't get another big name
from the US to replace the person that i'd had.
So I was like, I don't even know what I'm
going to do here. So I rang a guy who

(20:24):
I had met, who's a guy by named Kurrik Ashley
and he was a mindset coach for Natalie Cook and
Kerry Potters when they won gold at the Olympics in
two thousand and I'd meet him through some stuff and
had his phone number on my phone and so I
rang him and I said, you know, you had a
you started your career as a stunt double in Hollywood, Like,
surely you've got some connections. So like, no, no, He said,
if you want to get someone like that and do

(20:45):
a deal like that, you need to ring You need
to ring Max Marks. And I knew who Max was,
agent to stars and that sort of stuff, and I
was like, oh, yeah, good one. How am I going
to get through to him? And Kurk goes, hang up,
I'm going to text you his number. I'm going to
ring him. You ring him in ten minutes. So I'm
like okay, cool, So you know, just blustering through and
Max Mark' said being the marketing and PR person for

(21:07):
a business i'd worked it in Melbourne, like twenty years before.
And so I ring, I get Max, and Max walks
me through what I'm trying to do, as we can
definitely get people. He said, what's important to you? And
I gave him criteria and he said, do you have
some names in mind? I gave him some names and
there were three names. He said, better go and see
if they're interested. And I said to him, and this
is important for every woman listening, every person listening, I said,

(21:29):
and this is the pitch I want to use, particularly
for this one. And he's like, yeah, okay, cool, he said,
but I've been doing this for twenty years, like leave
it with me. I'm like, okay, cool. And he comes
back and he says to me, it's a no. And
I said, did you use my pitch? He's like, no,
I've been doing this for betweeny five years. I said,
go back and use my pitch. So I'm not going
back and using your pitch, Like this is literally the conversation.
I'm like, you got nothing to lose, Can you go

(21:50):
back and use my pitch? He went back and use
my pitch, And this particular person came back and said
I'm interested, which is the first level of yes. But
before that. What had happened was Max had said to me, Look,
you can spend one hundred and fifty to three hundred
thousand dollars on a one day event, or if you're
going to bring someone out, you can spend a million
dollars and do a series. That's how you make the money.

(22:12):
You road show them. Makes sense, And it was really
funny because he was like, I need you to think
about it because it's going to be a round about
a million dollars just for their expenses, and it's a
big risk. I need you to think about it. And
the hard cost of that whole project did come to
five point two million, and he said, I want to

(22:33):
think about it, and I don't want you to call
me for seven days. Even if you wake up tomorrow
and you're like yes, he said, you're know through a
whole roller coaster. It's a big risk. You've never done
anything this big before. Seven days, call me back. So
about three days later, I was like, now I'm going
to do this. Damn it. I was convicted and so
I rang him. He answers the phone. He goes, if
you're going to work together, you need to learn how

(22:53):
to count. It's not day seven and hangs up right now.
Unfortunately for a personality, that actually just made me more determined.
So long story short is, by the end of twenty fifteen,
I'd gone to contract with Reese Witherspoon to do me
to be my keynote speaker and headline three events in
Australia and an event in Auckland, New Zealand. And it

(23:15):
wasn't just keynoting she was going to host a round table,
She's going to do a keynote, and she was also
going to do a live Q and a from the floor, right,
unheard of at that level. Round tables were twenty people
in every city. The city one actually got brought out
by one law firm who wanted to put all their
female partners in. So it was a really big deal.
And when we launched, it was like literally the global

(23:36):
headlines were Reese Witherspoon pulls off a legally blonde move
because no one saw her coming to headline and an
event as a keynote speaker, right, And so we had massive,
massive publicity on launch, like it went global. It was
every single digital and mainstream. It was just crazy, and
it became a freight train and it was absolutely insane

(23:59):
and like, and then it became our mother of four
from Ascott which is a wealthy suburb in Brisbane, decides
to be an a list and I'm like, that's not like.
So there were the parts of it being like, you know,
like board rich house wife decides to I'm like Jesus anyway,
So there was a lot of learning and a lot
of learning and we had to put a team together
really quickly because it was a really big now for

(24:21):
the sake of getting through and like not tying your
audience up for the next five days. The key to this,
and it was contracted, is a national media call. Now
you will all be familiar with the national media call.
It is when a celebrity is coming out and all
of a sudden, for about a week, you see them
on everything, every radio station, every radio station, every radio, television, print.

(24:45):
It's like they take over media and these days it's
in your Spotify, your ads, like it's everywhere, right, And
they do that for a week and it's called a
national media call and point zero zero one percent of
that traffic to your website will sell out your events
point zero zero one percent, right, So you just have
to have a really strong and we had servers that
I think could have driven Google.

Speaker 2 (25:06):
Right.

Speaker 1 (25:06):
You just had a really strong, big servers able to
cope with the traffic and a way you go. So
that was the strategy. It's been done before. Max was
the master of this model. Went to contract and it
was also so increbly important. Everyone instead of doing the
live crosses to the US for her media call, We're

(25:27):
going to fly right, so we're going to Everyone was
wanting to go over. Everyone's wanting to in person. We
had fights over because like media calls, there's like three
minute spots and five minute spots, and we had fights
over the twenty minute spot between seven and nine, and
it was just crazy. And at one stage Max is like,
I think we should charter a playing because everyone's heading
over the same time, and I'm like it was just

(25:48):
different and you can't like and I know we've spoken
to you guys about this in the program. Like, my
biggest week on media was fifty five interviews across television,
in state, studio, radio, and print. Fifty five interviews in
one week, right, So it was full on and you
can't unlearn all of that. But what happened was we

(26:10):
couldn't get and she wasn't doing the socials, so there
was social media callouts contractor she wasn't doing them, and
we couldn't land a date for the media call and
no one could understand it. So at the time, someone
that I knew really really well was head writer of
HBO in La. She was trying to find a way

(26:32):
to get us on to set to meet with her.
The woman I've just gone blank on her name, but
the editor of Vogue Australia was actually on the phone
to Anna win Tour, the editor of Ogue New York,
trying to get their people to get Everyone was trying
to get this thing to happen, so all the media
knew because every time the date didn't eventuate, everybody was
like scrambling to try and find a way to make

(26:53):
her playball. So everyone knew, and it got to a
point where we still couldn't. Lad have been like three
tentative dates set but never really came off, and it
got to a point where I was running out of
time so for the ticket sales, so we were going
to have to change from an inbound digital lead capture

(27:14):
to an outbound lead generation strategy, which we didn't really
have the time for. But it was my only hope
of at least breaking even, and I did something. I
got to a point where it was just like, if
this doesn't this isn't happening in time. It's contracted. It
was a frustration of contract, and I called frustration of
contract and that actually got a direct call between Max

(27:35):
and Reese herself on a Sunday, and I think it
was around the eleventh June or something, and in that call,
it was agreed that she would withdraw because if she withdrew,
my insurances would trigger and everything would be paid out.
And I just had to ring all my brand partners,
who at the time were Murray Clare, Channel seven, Bond University,

(27:56):
Victorian Train of Commerce and Industry, and I just rang
all them. They said, look, it's a really good brand
bill and so long as the insurance is going to
trig it, like, let's keep going because we're going to
do entrepreneurial boot camps with Murray Clair and just you know,
crazy stuff. And so I called that. We agreed. She
asked Max to draft a statement to put on her
desk for her team to review on their Monday, which

(28:19):
was our Monday night, but Tuesday lunch, I was like,
this is a bit weird. I thought we would have
had that back by now, right, because we need to
be able to move on letting people know the event
was done and start refunds and all that sort of stuff.
And Tuesday afternoon I get a summons to appear in
an LA court. The next morning, I physically can't get there,
nor can I get a legal team to answer some

(28:41):
sort of thing, and basically I still can't remember the
detail because I was so shocked. Basically, by Wednesday morning,
I had a gag order, right, so I couldn't speak
about the frustration contract. And I'll tell you in a
moment why I'm now speaking about it. I couldn't speak
about the frustration contract. And it was a gag order
that was global ad infinitum, which means all around the

(29:02):
world and know end date. And I didn't have a
defense team. I didn't have time to do anything. It
was just steamrolled. And so then what happened was on
the Wednesday afternoon, my insurance called me because I'd already
had them working on it, to tell me that the
insurance wasn't going to trigger, and the insurance wasn't going

(29:24):
to trigger because I had refused to pay the second
payment of two hundred and fifty thousand US under frustration
of contract. What they were claiming was that I had
failed the fiducial responsibility of the contract by not making
the second payment, and because of the gag order, no
one could be compelled to tell the truth, at least

(29:44):
not fast enough for the insurance to trigger. So that
was on Wednesday afternoon. I remember taking the call. I
remember I got my keys. I looked at my team
that all working their ass off. I got my car
and I drove up to the mountains behind the Gold Coast.
I didn't know where I was going to drive, and
I just needed knew I need to. I said to him,
a look, I'll be back soon. And I sat up
on the edge of a mountain, thinking, what the fuck

(30:06):
am I going to do? Right? Because I just knew
it was gonna be brutal, and because I'm going to
say we went able to refund ticket holders, but I'll
correct that in a minute as well. But I knew
that all the publicy that we'd had and everything was
going on, I knew that we would have the same amount.

(30:26):
And because I knew that, I had to put the
company into receivership, right, so Joe back down. By the
time I got back, I had a project plan in
my head. I walked in, I let the team go
early because they'd been working so hard, and I call
I appointed receivers. I got that moving. I called the
staff back. I stood them all down except for my
EA and my Marcomms director, and we just packaged up

(30:46):
the office and the files and got ready for the
receivers to walk in and put announcements up. Now, when
we sent the website, when we put an announcement up
on the website that the conference series was now canceled
due to circumstances beyond my control, we got a phone
call from Team Reese Litigators in New York saying, what
part of no comment do you nonderstand? Send the website dark.

(31:08):
So we then had to send the website dark. And
then on the Friday afternoon, the notice for the for
the receivership of the company went live on ASCIC. So
by Friday afternoon, and when you go into receivership, you
actually sign an agreement with the federal government that you
will never again comment on the matters of the company.
So I had a glad gay order from rees. I
had a blacked out website and I had a receivership

(31:31):
that I just signed an agreement that I would never
ever gain comment on the affairs of the company. And
in that vortex, I lost complete control of every narrative
and I still don't have it back.

Speaker 2 (31:42):
I feel so sick thinking about that, Like I was
just jotting down things to ask you about, like and
I don't even know where to start the impact of that,
like even just the idea of, well, here's one question,
how do you separate or do you separate an attachment

(32:06):
to does that company become your identity? And how do
you go, Oh, I'm putting this into receivership and it's
not me. It's a thin So.

Speaker 1 (32:16):
Fortunately there's a couple of things. I have a certain
level of disassociation that can kick in and high trauma.
So I think that helped me because it didn't help
me as in I disconnected from it. But I was
able to create that project plan in my head and
executed it. I knew it was the only and the
receivers when they were coming in to get everything, they
were like, wow, you guys move fast, and like, did
we move too? Fast, and they're like, no, just most
people do not have this clear eyed view of when

(32:38):
they need to make that call. So I've always had
that ability to make a commercial decision, and you saw
that on a small scale with what I just did
with our van. Right, the commercial decision had to be made,
and I hadn't been going long enough to be attached
to the identity of that organization because we'd created that
company for that project and what was coming after it,

(33:01):
because there was things coming after It wasn't just this
conference that was like a big noisy launch of launching
all these programs at the back end. So but it
wouldn't matter how I felt about that attachment because the
media and the world both decided we were one and
the same, you know, and because I couldn't speak, so

(33:21):
for example, the comments went off on one of the
articles that I shouldn't have looked at. I think for
about six weeks I got an average of eleven hundred
trolling messages our day, even though my socials were locked down,
and I wish I'd kept them because I would have
put them in a book, but I didn't keep them.
I got to a point. I got to a point
where one of my girlfriends actually said you need to

(33:42):
delete them. But so, for example, on one of the
media articles, people were going, well, we didn't get our
money refunded, she's run away with our money, blah blah,
and ninety five percent of the tickets were bought on
credit card. Now, when a service is not delive in
the credit card company, the merchant reimburses and they go
after the people. So I had because companies and receive ship.

(34:04):
I had all of the merchant reports of all the
moneies that had been refunded, and every single person on
those comments had had their money refunded from their merchants. Right.
They weren't fucking saying that, were they Right? So people,
also in the absence of my voice, were able to
create a narrative that was not true that I couldn't
counteract because I wasn't allowed to disclose that I had

(34:26):
copies of these merchant reports. I wasn't allowed to just
comment on what was happening with the creditors in the bank,
Like at one stage the creditors said that I owed
the ATO money. No, the ATO owed me money, and
you put them in your pocket for part of your fees,
And I have no argument they're going to pay their fees,
because I had no way paying their fees. But you
know what I mean, Like, there's just these things that
just get run away with and you have no control.

(34:47):
And for years when other people, and I've not been
an angel because there was a lot of trauma came
out of that, but when other people behaved badly, the
way that they shut me up and silenced me is
they point to the headlines. They go, oh, see, she's
really that, So exactly your concern of whether I was
really that is what they point out when they want
to get away with their own behavior.

Speaker 2 (35:09):
All right, How does one get through something like that?

Speaker 1 (35:14):
Probably not the same way I did. I just kept going.
What I should have done was taken time out. So
I did take three or four weeks, three or four
months out, and I went and stayed with a friend
on the beach, run at the Gold coast, just put
my feet in the sand every day, watch away El
swim Pie. But then I was really worried about going
personally bankrupt. So the company was gone, and I was

(35:37):
fighting not to go personally bankrupt. So I was like,
and no noble reason, I just didn't want to surrender.
My passport, which is kind of hilarious in hindsight because
couldn't afford to travel for three or five years after this.
But anyway, the things that keep you going, and so
I realized I needed to get back into it right.
I needed to create something that I could make enough

(36:01):
money to keep most of it at bay. Now there
are people that they're going to tell you about some
of the mistakes I made in the last nine to
ten years. They've got their opinion. Some of it's true,
some of it's not. Most of it is a little
bit of truth and a lot of fucking beat up, right.
But so I had to get back into it. What
I actually should have done was just let all the
pieces for right, because what happened was the pieces fell

(36:25):
bit by bit. So I kept breaking bit by bit,
and when every time I had a break point, I
let the wrong people in, or I let the wrong
decisions be made, or I listened to others when I
should have. So I should have just let it all
burn to the ground completely and just opt out for
a while. But I came back and I was determined
not to go personally bankrupt. And I am grateful for

(36:47):
that decision. For a whole range of reasons. But this
is where I ended up doing what I'm doing because
in my roles, I've always been in high performance sales businesses,
consulting businesses, as well as really gritty businesses like morning
services and whatnot. But I'd always had to teach people
my teams how to speak and how to sell. And
for a while I was an industry relations negotiators, so

(37:08):
I had to teach executive and C suite leaders how
to not screw up a deal by saying the wrong
thing on a workshop floor. So I was like literally
puppeteering communications for years. And so I was like, Okay,
if I go back to I can go back to
CEA Sweep, but I don't think anyone's going to hire
me because I've got this massive failure that's headlines. So
that's out. I could go back to management consulting, but

(37:28):
again massive headlines. At one stage, there was seventy three
pages on Google talking about this failure, so like it
wasn't going to be run away from Like people say, oh,
we can show you how to like change your content,
and then I show them my Google profile and they're
like oh, and they just leave right because I was
too big for them, right, They just like disappear out,
and so it was huge, right, And so then I

(37:50):
was like, well, what am I going to do? And
so I was like, well, maybe I can spin up
workshops teaching people how to speak and how to sell,
because I've always done that at my jobs, and so
I did.

Speaker 2 (38:01):
So.

Speaker 1 (38:01):
My first workshop was three women paying nine hundred dollars
each around my post divorce, post bankrupt, almost bankrupt flat, right.
They sat around the dining table. One of the women
was so broke that she had to stay with me
and my little tiny flat while she did the course.
And that was where it started.

Speaker 2 (38:18):
I love that so much. What if anything positive came
of that, of going through all of that? What do
you have now you didn't have before?

Speaker 1 (38:35):
Actually? And it comes it ties into and it's only
the last eighteen months to two years, because I think
I've only really come through in the last twelve to
eighteen months, right, really come through it. And I should
touch on as well. Why I speak out even though
there's a gag order at the moment is because the
receivers actually found there to be frustration of contract by
Miss Witherspoon were the words, so that a receiver's report

(38:56):
legally has to be put on public records, so that
was actually put on public record too late for it
to change anything for me, but it does mean that
that part of it I can speak to, so it
don't last eight months or two years. And I was
actually only just reflecting on this after the event that
you were at a few weeks ago, which was our conference.

(39:16):
I I don't think I was capable of holding space
with empathy, no matter what the story is before that.
So the person I've become now who can hold space
and you've seen me, not even just in a room,
but whatever someone's story is, whatever someone's doesn't matter where

(39:36):
it goes, I can hold the space. I can meet
them in it. I don't believe that would have been
possible without twenty sixteen. And I probably should tell you
how I knew how to get through twenty sixteen. Twenty
sixteen and this journey that I had to go on,
which was sometimes horrific, sometimes debilitating, sometimes amazing. I don't

(39:57):
think I would have been able to hold this space
for others and meet them where they are without that.
That's my superpower. Now, how did you get through twenty sixteen?
So when I said, I sat up on the top
of a mountain and I was thinking, what the fuck
do I do now?

Speaker 2 (40:17):
Like?

Speaker 1 (40:17):
What am I going to do?

Speaker 2 (40:18):
Like?

Speaker 1 (40:18):
Literally, I have no experience with this. I knew that
it was involved with receivers or something or whatever. I
think at that stage of thing, the media is going
to go nuts and I don't know if I'm going
to survive this. I realized I knew exactly what to
do from a planning for this perspective, because I realized
I could draw on everything I wish i'd known how
to handle with something that had happened in two thousand

(40:40):
and four. And that sounds crazy. And this is why
I'm really passionate about people like, Oh, I need to
know the lessons, and I get on with your fucking life,
because the lessons will reveal themselves later. Right, Stop navel gazing.
Try to work out the meaning of something and what
the lesson is. Because the events of two thousand and four,
which I'll tell you in a minute, if you told
me two thousand and four that that would come in

(41:00):
handy and sitting on the top of a mountain after
Reese Witherspoon had frustrated contract with me and I was
about to go bankrupt. If you told me that in
two thousand four, I would have laughed in African face. But
the reason why I knew what to do was because
what happened in two thousand and four and two thousand
and four was very different. I was running a multi
eight figure recruitment business. It was family owned. My mother

(41:21):
had exited. I was a GM my two ic and
I were about to buy the business stuff my mother.
Everything we touched turned to gold, and she had a
bipolar collapse. I know the period of the next six
months deteriorting to the point where she successfully took her
own life. I'd gone to school with her husband at
about halfway through that six months. He he needed someone

(41:44):
to blame, and I was the easiest one to lash
out against. I actually was able to pull There's massive
stories around that whole journey that we don't need to
do today. But when she did pass away, when she
did finally sixty and take her own life, I was
publicly blamed for her death at her wake, so I
was asked not to attend the funeral, and we'd literally

(42:05):
been joined at the here and then I was publicly
because there were colleagues from Brisbane. We both worked in
Brisbane and had common connections and their colleagues from Brisbane
who were up, and one of them rang. He'd been
my previous boss like ten years before, and he rang
me and he said, are you in your office today?
And I said yeah, and he said I thought you
might be home and said no, I needed to be
somewhere where I'm just occupied, and he said, can we

(42:26):
all drop through? I was just say, ye yea, I
want to drop through for a glass of wine or like,
you know whatever, just check in. But they came through
because they wanted to let me know that at the wake,
her husband had publicly blamed me for her death. And
it was phenomenal because no one believed I'd killed her.
They knew it was crazy, and then it was a
great but no one knew what to do with it either.

(42:46):
So like our business halved overnight, not because we've done
something wrong. And then he was determined to run me
out of town. He was determined to destroy my reputation.
It became like and it still is like, that was
two thousand and four and I still run into people now,
I go, oh, that's I'm sorry. I didn't realize you
the one who killed Alisha. It still happens in common

(43:08):
circles now, so it was really horrendous and it was
and I had three little kids. I had eighty five
people on my team at that time. The team grew
to be about three hundred people that time, I had
sorry about one hundred and twenty five people on my team.
They'd also lost Alicia, so we'd had to get a
full time psychologist into the business for her. She was

(43:30):
on her way out. We kept that person on staff
full time for about three months afterwards. So I had
a team of people who had also lost Alicia who
I had to be there for. I had a client
and staff base that I had to keep okay because
they'd also lost Alicia. And then I had three kids
at that stage, three kids under seven who are supposed

(43:51):
to be present for And so when I sat on
the side of the mountain and I literally just got
through that right and we sold the business because I
said to my mom, I can't run this anymore. Well,
my heart's not in it, can't do it. So we
sold it to an ASEX listed company because it was
a good business, and I stayed on for the transition,
and then I got out and I stayed out of
doing anything for about six months to a year and

(44:11):
just sat on the beach with the kids and so
on the side of the mountain that day in twenty sixteen,
I was like, what were all the things I would
have wanted to have in place if I'd known what
was coming with Alisha was coming? And that was how
I created my plan driving back down the mountain.

Speaker 2 (44:30):
What would you do differently? What would twenty twenty five
Jacqueline do back in at that time now? Or would
you just sit differently in it?

Speaker 1 (44:47):
I would sit differently in it. It was a I
mean it was also there was a point in time,
so Alicia came back to work for a while on
a part time return to work, and her brain had
her brain was misfired, so with a collapse, she gone
for the most brilliant person you knew. She could still
talk brilliantly, but like we had to put a catch

(45:10):
thing into her emails because she was typing gobbledygook, so
we catched them before they went to the client and
her secretary would retype them. There was all these things,
and it was the first time I came to believe
in the soul because I remember she sat on the
edge of my desk one day. So I was sitting
on my desk and she came in and sat to
the right of me, just sat in the corner talking
to me. And she looked over at me and she

(45:30):
was talking away, and I didn't hear a word she
said because her eyes were gone. She was they were vacant.
There was there was she was looking at me, but
there were. And three days later, my little receptionist came
out to me and she said, Jack, I don't know
what's going on, but I can't look at Alisha anymore.
And she's like, and I knew exactly what she's weam.
I said, it's okay. She's like, it's not a look

(45:52):
at her, and I don't know what's going on. I
just want to cry. But because she was witnessing that,
Alicia's soul was already gone, so I think I would
of sat differently in it. And the reason being is
that I also I was so angry at her husband,
like I grown up with him, not grown up. I'd
gone to high school with him, we went to a
boarding school. I was so angry with him. I judged

(46:15):
the whole lot of them, because they wouldn't get her
the right treatment, they wouldn't get her into facility, and
they were letting herself discharge you when she should be
on compulsory hold. And and I was really angry. And
I think that's actually why they were able to turn
those to turn that attention towards me, because I was
so frustrated and angry. And I would have sat differently
with it with my team, mind you, I think I

(46:35):
did a pretty good job with them, but I also
would have sat differently with her. I would have just
written it out with her.

Speaker 2 (46:44):
I'm always fascinated by our relationship with perception, and I
think for me it's currently developing in really positive ways
by way of understanding the two way street that it is.
And you're an example of that for me, because it
was the idea of going, well, here's a story, and

(47:07):
I am responsible for having a perception of that story
and holding a meaning to it and what it means
to me. So I like, I'm responsible for that, and
then I'm responsible for the relationship that develops around that.

(47:28):
But how did it feel in the middle of those experiences?
How do you let go of other people's perception and
decisions and beliefs and versions of reality when you're I
imagine grappling with all of that yourself and grief.

Speaker 1 (47:45):
Yeah, and grief is a big one. And that's probably
my next big body of work is me around grief.
I don't have clear answers for that, and the reason
being is because who I am now now it's not
who I was in twenty sixteen. I'm trying to remember
who that goal was. And who I was in twenty
sixteen was not the girl in two thousand and four.

(48:08):
Who I was in two thousand and four was not
the gal I was when I was fifteen. And I
first lost my voice, right, So in some ways there
was a familiarity with it because I had lost my
voice when I was young, So losing my voice with
Alicia's death kind of almost felt familiar. Losing my voice

(48:29):
with the events of twenty sixteen was a whole new experience, right,
And I don't know that in both circumstances, in any
of those as I moved through them well, but I
never gave in, right. And I remember someone asking me
one day if I'd ever actually had any form of

(48:50):
suicidal ideation with all of these different things, and the
closest I came to it was when I was getting
all those like eleven hundred trolling messages a day, and
I I remember saying to someone, I finally understand how
this stuff can cause someone to take their own life.
But I, even with feeling and I was traumatized, I

(49:11):
didn't go there myself because I've always not at the
core of me that it's not my decision to make.
It is God's plan. Choosing to leave or stay is
not my call, and so I always knew that the
only option was through. And so you know, and you know,

(49:35):
you're angry and you're bitter, and you're retraumatized, and then
there's moments of joy and you don't navigate it well.
Like I'm not. I did not navigate any of it
well at any point, but you learn every time how
to navigate it better. And that's what I say to
people all the time. I still go to my knees.

(49:55):
I mean, I had a really toxic client in one
of our programs about eighteen months ago, and she literally
took to my knees and my bathroom, right. I still
go to my knees, but these days I see it,
and I don't quite go to the floor, and I
know how to get back up.

Speaker 2 (50:15):
What I love about people like you, like I love
the version. I love people's hard stories, right. I love
to see that because it gives all of us permission.
So when I I meet this chick called Jacqueline and
she's doing amazing shit, and then I hear some shit
she's been through, and then I go, hey, she's building

(50:37):
from not only the ground up. Like in my head,
as I said that, I visualized years ago in Tazzy,
near where my mum lives, some bloke put this toxic,
bloody chemical all over this house and burned it down
as a domestic dispute so his wife couldn't have the house,
and that ground was could not be built on for
years and years and years. And I feel like you

(50:59):
have had to build a foundation, you have to rebuild
on a foundation like that. You've had to be like, well,
fucking this is some toxic, murky ground. Yeah, but you're
still built again. And I just think it's for me.
It's a powerful metaphor and it's an inspiration and it
makes me proud and it gives me a sense of
like hope and inspiration.

Speaker 1 (51:21):
It's pretty bloody cool. Thank you.

Speaker 2 (51:27):
What's next? Mate?

Speaker 1 (51:30):
Actually, so I finally have accepted this thing that I
do now.

Speaker 2 (51:35):
I think you always had to. Right, let's look at
the three. This whole theme of your life is my
voice is taken away. My voice is taken away. My
voice is taken away. It only makes sense that you're
going to have the biggest pull towards I need to
make sure people can have impact with their voices.

Speaker 1 (51:53):
Yeah, they have to be able to have their voice,
find their voice. Yes, and that you know. And I
think that funny sided Chris for me a few years ago.
But it's on the last twelve to eighteen months, say, really,
I have confidence in how we teach now, right, I
have confidence that this is actually a business now, not
just a coaching thing. And some of the delay is well,

(52:15):
we had COVID in the middle of it, Like we
were just saying to take off in the US. When
COVID hit, in fact taking off so much in the US,
I was seriously looking at moving there, don't go and so,
and then COVID hit, and so that took a couple
of years out because my business flatline. We went from
seven figures to zero and there's a shareholder dispute around

(52:37):
that because you were sitting there going just just go online,
just go online. And I just was like, losing the
second business in five years for reasons outside of my control.
Was like I just shut it down and I was
never going to do this again. And then a previous
client came bringing me saying, hey, I'm coming out of
COVID and I want to redo my speech and you

(52:57):
need to you work shop again. I'm like, I don't
do that shit anymore. Like I was like my consulting again,
and she would ring me. I say yes, yes, yes, no, yes, yes, no,
no fuck off, yes yes, no, no, no, yes, maybe okay,
whatever you feel the fucking room and or come. And
so that was in April twenty twenty two and I

(53:17):
drove back down from that because we did it up
in her location, not mine, because I was literally like,
I am not lifting. I don't do this anymore, but
I'll come and do it for you if you can
get ten people in the room. And I drove back
down from the Sunshine Coaster Brisbane on the last day
that workshop, and I went, oh shit, this is what
I'm supposed to be doing. And I went back to it,
and I still fought with it, But in the last

(53:38):
twelve to eighty months, I've settled into it right. And
some of the resistance came because you talked about building
on this toxic foundation, and it was, and so toxicity
kept oozing out of it. Whether it was the stupid
decisions I was making in the first four or five years,
whether it was the eeriotic toxic wankers I was letting

(54:03):
into my world and then having to work with them.
I remember one stage I wanted to give up because
I'm like, I'm actually teaching toxic wankers how to go
out with mass with weapons of mass destruction. Like I
can't handle the responsibility of that. So I had to
shift it a lot. So I think it took I
think it took a long time for the toxicity to

(54:24):
work its way out, and it's only since and of
course I had to do the work to get it
out right. I had to forgive all sorts of people
and things and media and the machine, and like I
was raging as a machine for a long time. No
wonder why I've attracted wankers.

Speaker 2 (54:42):
I was just going to say that I was going
to say how I can imagine when you become vulnerable
and put out in the media that way, that you
get a lot, you get a huge shift in who
comes to you and who doesn't and what they want,
and your whole sense of self would belnerable, and you
would want connection and belonging and love and acceptance again

(55:03):
and belief. That would have been such murkhy waters.

Speaker 1 (55:08):
It was, And because you know, because you like, I
remember saying at one stage to my mom, actually, and
you've met my mom. I remember saying to my mom
at one point, I'm not enjoying this. So Mom looked
at me, she said, I don't think you like any
of your clients. I'm like, God, damn, she's right. But

(55:29):
it was I was like, like a track's like right, yeah,
And so it took a long time to work that out.
It took a long time to get through. And also
because I was operating from that space, like some of
the people who were good people trying to assist me,
I burnt, right because the quick fix came from the
toxic right, And so there's also some good people along

(55:50):
the way that I burnt, not just so I got
burnt by others, but it's one of those things. And
in the last yeah, twelve eighteen months, probably two years,
it's it's become a place that doesn't have toxicity. It's
become a place that brings good people. I mean, look
at the cohort you're in, Like, it's mind blowing, right,
And our whole world, no matter what program we look
at the moment, our whole world is like that, right.

(56:12):
And but that's because and this is the thing, and
you know this, I had to do the work. I
had to do work myself to get the work that
I wanted.

Speaker 2 (56:21):
Yes, because you don't just build those cohorts, like what
you have around you don't just build. You have to.
Once they get traction, they're amazing. But I just couldn't
believe it because I've been I've networked in a lot
of places over the years, and I'm a very big
people person, and I'm all about the tribe and the
energy and the likeness. Because I'm sat i vibe so heavily,

(56:44):
i absorb reflect the energy of others, so it so
smacks me in the face. And that was my cal
aid moment with you. I was like, whatever the fuck
she does, I'm in I'm in it because there's not
a single person here that I'm awkwardly trying to shift
away because I don't want to talk to them.

Speaker 1 (57:03):
So good. Yeah, yeah, and that's but that's that has
been deliberate, and it was actually there was a mentor
I worked with about five or six years ago who
told me that their menta was they wouldn't work with
anyone particularly privately, unless they were willing to have them
to dinner with their kids at their house.

Speaker 2 (57:21):
Yeah, And I went, I.

Speaker 1 (57:23):
Want to be that, And like, I look at this
cohort that you're in at the moment, I'm like, I
can't even get to all of them. I learnt have
dinner with all of them, like you know, like like
you know, but it is. It was. It became a
north star, and that was the external north star. And
then of course I'd do the work to catch up
to actually be able to hold the space for the
type of people we now have, no matter what program
you're looking at the type of people we now have

(57:44):
in our world.

Speaker 2 (57:46):
What's one trait that you're that you're really proud of,
that you're great at, and what's one trait that you
want to be better at?

Speaker 1 (57:55):
So the thing that I'm proud of has actually shifted
a lot, and it's now that it's my ability to reconsider. Nice.
So I used to say it was my ability to
find a solution that you know, my backs up against
the well, I can find a way out, that I'm
tough and I'm resilient. But actually it's my ability now
to reconsider either my own decisions or the stories of others.

(58:21):
So it's my ability to reconsider. And then what was
the other one to trait? You'd love to improve my
busyness because I'm actually so doing stuff for so many
other people, Like as you know, i haven't spoken on
stage properly except my own events for like a good
couple of years. And so I've got to improve my

(58:45):
ability to be busy because I'm very high capacity, high performance,
always have been. But I've got to improve that because
also my next body of work is calling and I
want to do it so good.

Speaker 2 (58:57):
Where can people find you? Follow you listening podcast and
get involved.

Speaker 1 (59:02):
So the podcast is speak a driven business and it
is on Spotify and Apple and YouTube. Please go to
Apple and listen and if you love it, rate it
and reviewer because that's the reviews account that it is
on all the platforms. We're eighty two episodes in Now
and Going Strong. And if you can't afford a coach,

(59:24):
or you think you can't afford a coach, go listen
to it because all the baseline stuff is on it.
So that's that. And then the best place to find
me is LinkedIn. I hang out mostly on LinkedIn. So
Jacqueline Dashbrooker.

Speaker 2 (59:34):
Second that podcast. It is really good. So anyone that
is interested in speaking or just brand and business and
small business like not even even coaches, everyone like it
is such a good podcast.

Speaker 1 (59:46):
So thank you.

Speaker 2 (59:47):
Go do that. I'll have links in the show notes.
Thank you so much. And now you've got a big
job ahead, do you. So make sure I'm not shipped
by the end of this course.

Speaker 1 (59:56):
Oh my god, you still believe in miracles? Thanks Tom, Thanks,
she said, it's now never. I got fighting in my
blood

Speaker 2 (01:00:14):
Got it, drink quit coast, got it, got it, lost it.